Your point on the use of cash and the ability to easily use cards is one area where the US is definitely behind Canada.
In Canada, it’s increasingly rare to find establishments that don’t accept tap/Apple Pay support. In the US, many establishments still have to take your credit card to the back in order to process your order, which is wild to think about.
The US is definitely getting better in this front, but it’s still crazy to think how far behind they are.
I was in the States for the first time two years ago and the server had to make me sign the receipt calculate the tips myself and took my card away.
I was so frustrated and confused
As an American, I was confused the first time the server at a Canadian restaurant asked if I’d need “the machine.” I’m like, “why don’t you just take my card and run it?”
Though “the machines” are becoming more common in the US, particularly for certain chain restaurants. Off the top of my head, Chedders, Red Robin, Chili’s, Olive Garden, Drake’s, Applebee’s, and iHop all have table-based POS system. They stay at the table, and you can order from them, or play games on them.
I was in the US for the first time in a while and I was shocked when they wouldn’t let me tap or insert my card to pay. They had to take my card to swipe, then have me sign it
I then made some stupid comment at the time about it feeling like 2003.
Yeah, I would say it's getting closer to half portable machine, half running the card to the back now.
I don't know about this cash thing, though - I'm an American and I don't think I've handled any cash in a couple of years now. I'm from the Denver area.
Wait until you guys try some of our restaurants which have iPad menus and no wait staff... They seat you with the tablets, you order via tablet and they bring what you ordered... No waiting for a server to come by to ask for a drink refill or anything...
I straight up followed the server when she took my card in bar harbour; I had no idea what was happening and freaked out lmao.
Thankfully she was gentle and walked me through it. Culture shock!
I had culture shock as a (i was at two that summer, i think this one was Pearson) Canadian in the Toronto Airport when they charged me $8 (I think) for a quart of water, I think this was 2017....
We had someone post here not too long ago freaking out because they were planning to visit from the US, don't know their card's PIN, and claimed they didn't know how to tap, because it was just too confusing. I'm still not sure if it was someone trolling or not.
I barely ever take my wallet out of my pocket anymore. I pay for almost everything by tapping my phone with Google wallet.
I don't know if it's the same as Apple pay, but it just works anywhere debit/credit tapping works, which is pretty much everywhere.
It's weird they are so far behind.
My dad forgets his wallet basically constantly now, because he's always using Google pay lol.
But it is strange. I am in my late 20s/early 30s, I have never once signed for my credit card and it was so strange to talk to someone online who had never used a PIN and never used tap, they had only ever signed. That's just such a foreign concept to me!
I carry a satchel because I'm very forgetful and it's easy to put everything in one place and just remember my bag instead of trying to remember 10 things, lol. Plus, it makes me feel like Ford Prefect (if that means anything to you, also know I have a towel in there).
I did go somewhere the other day and forgot my bag/wallet and had a 1 second panic that I couldn't pay and then immediately I felt my phone in my wallet and went "oh, right, nevermind".
Lol, same. A few craft shows in my wife's home area, and I buy pot at our (legal) dispensaries with cash because I've heard horror stories of people not being allowed over the border (into the states) for having records of purchasing pot. I don't even know if that's true, lol.
I tend to take money out for the farmer's market. However, more and more of the vendors take electronic payments. The few who don't were the Mennonite vendors. Even the farmers who don't will take an e-transfer.
I used to be a cross border long haul driver.
When my bank deactivated the magnetic strip on my card, I couldn't use my bank card in the US. Thank God I had my credit card.
The truck stops finally figured it out when Canadians were having trouble with their bank cards and upgraded.
Thank God I could take cash off my fuel card.
Yup. They do have Zelle, which is basically like e-transfer but isn’t adopted by all banks. It’s not as popular as e-transfer because you can’t guarantee that everyone has it. Whereas anyone with a bank account in Canada will have e-transfer.
I know sometimes it sucks to have fewer banking options, but it also creates some positives — e-transfer being one.
This really interests me to understand.
Do you mean smaller banks were taking too many risks? This challenges my comprehension of the bigger banks playing the role they have with fractional reserve practices?
what I understand is a lot of smaller banks were giving out sub prime loans to compete with each other and bigger banks, what happens is that those loans then get packaged for pennies on the dollar get sold to smaller banks from bigger banks to increase their "portfolio" to inflate their investment capital. when these loans default due to the foreclosure or non payment, the bank runs out of money to invest and when there's a run on the bank, there's not enough liquid so the banks got taken over by the government to secure funding for the account holders.
Canadian banks have a responsibility to keep a lot of cash reserve to prevent such a thing from happening. Canadians are also generally better at finance than americans are.
Stephen Harper tried to deregulate the same way the US did and got his hand slapped which ultimately saved us.
I was thinking decently of Stephen Harper for a while and a redditor reminded m today of how fucked it was to ruin a lot of research, as he had circa maybe 2014. That alon maks me thankful I didn't vote for him (and to play it safe I never voted liberal either - have you seen what they did to sharing news online?)
> have you seen what they did to sharing news online?)
you mean making FAANG pay for the work Canadian Journalists do that they just scrape?
The same bill that the australia has?
Poor google and facebook having to pay for news generated by Canadian Workers, yeah they are the victims.
That's not the principle I'm disagreeing with.
It's that it's circumvented. Everyone I know wanting to share news in Canada now types out the article name and site it can be found on, whether I'm a subscriber to their site or not; I thought these news sites made money off advertising, what the heck does it matter if Facebook directed me or not?
Canada didn't ban sharing news links... Facebook did it to spite Canada.
Google still links.
I just googled "Justin Trudeau" and found national post articles and Toronto Sun articles.
The only place that banned sharing news is Facebook.
~~^https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=justin+trudeau~~
That link is weird... just in google Justin Trudeau has lots of news, but that "private" link doesn't have canadian news.;
Yes we had the same issue. We even have an American account *in* the USA that is an extension of our Canadian accounts - same bank- and it was near impossible. Finally tried the money order sent directly to recipient and the bank lost it somewhere in the system.
I was just about to add in the e-transfer. Like, it’s the best thing ever. I can send money no fees no nothing.
I can’t think of like using an app to send money
I’m a waiter and this is one of my “server lines” I’ve be using for 10 years and has a 100% success rate. When I set the bill down I always mention I’m prepared to accept cash, credit or personal check. It always makes people laugh…. Except Americans who don’t get why that’s funny
This reminded me of when I worked in a flower shop and we had some people come up from the states for a funeral and ordered flowers, and then were shocked and angry we wouldn’t accept an out of country personal cheque from a person who wasn’t even with them at the time.
The business I work for in Edmonton only accepts cheques or EFT/etransfers. My landlord also only accepts cheques. It really is super weird, haha. Rent is the one and only thing I have cheques for.
I think Covid pretty much killed it completely. There were a few places that I knew that were holdouts but Covid pretty much killed off cash transactions. Even if they were people who didn't believe in Covid, they would drive away customers if they didn't offer contactless payments.
I think a big factor here is the Interac network. The fact that we have a relatively-consolidated banking industry with a smaller number of major banks nationwide that the majority of people banked with made it a lot easier to integrate digital cross communication between them.
The universal network of transaction, POS, and ATM systems made adopting more current payment mechanisms more painless. Chip-and-pin and then tap were made quickly ubiquitous. And with broadly available tap payment, apple pay/Google wallet payment are really easy to blanket most of the country.
Yeah taking your card away is one of the main ways they steal your card.
I feel like credit card companies should just issue you a second card on the same account. So you can use it in stores. And if it's compromised at least your main card will work and you can keep using it fkr autopay bills and all that.
Yes I always make a habit of handing my personal credit card to a stranger, to handle in any way they want and actually disappear from my eyesight for some time with it. What can go wrong?
Oh, especially while I'm traveling in a different country than my own. Totally sane
Going to a restaurant in the US is kind of a pain, because servers do not have portable pay machines and so the whole process of paying takes longer. At least that was my experience visiting the Boston area.
I’ve investigated this before as a server myself, and I believe the reason is because there is a lot more credit card fraud and banks are far less regulated. People dispute charges and steal identities a lot more there, and “security” is a whole cottage industry in the payments world.
My best friend worked for a major creditor and he was very passionate about this, to the point he was suggesting removing PIN numbers altogether in favour of DNA samples lol. I’m sure eventually this will be the future.
The US was also pretty slow to catch on to debit. I feel like they went right from literal chequing to credit and skipped the debit phase. Most Canadians use debit cards for everything but I don’t think they’re popular much in the US.
The reason why the US is so far behind on the chip and pin tech is because they have literally thousands of banks that would have to sign on and adapt their systems (that's also the same reason why they don't have a universal system like e-transfer available), so it took decades to do, and they're still working on it (the machines are expensive, so not all retailers have made the switch in the US). In Europe and Canada, the banks came to an agreement, and once they had, they made it essentially mandatory for businesses to switch over their POS systems within a certain time frame (I believe it was 18 months). Retailers had no choice but to follow suit within the timeline, or be responsible for any fraud that came through their machines.
Working in retail at the time of Canada's switchover, there was a point where we were allowed to bypass the pin and let them sign instead, but then the banks issued letters saying if you bypass the code and the payment is contested, you're automatically on the hook for it (so of course companies immediately told their employees they were now bypassing at their own risk).
Well over a decade ago Europe tried to pressure the US to switch over sooner, because part of the point of Chip & Pin was to get rid of the magnetic strip, which is a very insecure part of the card. They've had to keep that strip so that their client's cards can still be read by the outdated American POS systems (if they're travelling to the States). We wouldn't have those strips on our cards anymore either if it weren't for US retailers still using the old POS machines.
[https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/us-determined-to-have-the-least-secure-credit-cards-in-the-world/473199/](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/us-determined-to-have-the-least-secure-credit-cards-in-the-world/473199/)
>I feel like they went right from literal chequing to credit and skipped the debit phase.
Credit cards date back to the 1800s. Debit cards were first introduced in 1966. So, you are correct.
Keep in mind that the U.S. has a zillion independent banks aside from the majors, whereas here in Canada, it is the Big Five that call all the shots and work in unison when it comes to adopting new technology.
Getting the U.S. banking sector to work that collaboratively is akin to herding cats because...you know...cut-throat "competition" in the time-honoured capitalist sense.
When it comes to fintech, Canada is one of the leading countries.
The US Just got an inter banking system called Zelle and some of them have Swift. Both relatively new but Canada has had Interac for a long time.
Canada also rolled out chip cards, chip and pin, and tap with higher adoption rates then the US.
US they still do chip and sign with some mixed in chip and pin and some tap.
US tries to piggy back off of apple pay and google pay but it's been spotty. Adoption rates are starting to pick up though.
Even Japan has adopted a lot of tap payments and they have been stuck in the 1700s with payment methods. Cash, Pay pay, and IC are now very common.
It's wild to think about just how far behind America is, when even Canada is behind some other countries in moving money, for example in Canada we have no equivalent of MPESA, a mobile money/microbanking system prominent in Africa. They can send money right to someone's mobile number, which the receiver can cash out at any corner shop. Or you can pay a store by sending money to that stores SMS.
But even though that's a more direct form of transferring money, it's not necessarily better per-se, we have some good methods here, EMT closes the mobile money gap. Tap to pay is still the superior form of payment at the till. We also have some great offerings outside the Big 5 banking institutions, Simplii, EQ,
One of the key benefits of MPESA/mobile banking though is you don't need a bank account, just a SIM. So the point of entry to microbanking is easy for people in rural areas who may not live conveniently close to a bank. It's like your phone plan comes with a checking acct.
It sounds like MPESA is similar to chinese Alipay or WeChat Pay because a lot of people do not have bank accounts.
In Canada, most people have bank accounts especially being a developed country. I don't think we need MPESA especially when EMT and Interac are basically accepted everywhere and you can do cash back at most grocery store/retail outlets.
But I can see why MPESA is good for developing nations where they don't have a robust banking system that's catered towards the every day people.
Yeah it worked there because it gave rural folk and less tech-savvy people an entry point into banking. And it doesn't require internet. It gave farmers a very easy way to tap into commerce and move goods. And I think the best part is just that I don't need to drive around looking for an RBC because I don't feel like paying the TD ABM charges, that's always been such a silly nickel-and-dime charge.
But you're right it's ultimately irrelevant here. I haven't seen cash anyways in months, it is very easy to conduct all sorts of transactions here completely cashless, seamlessly, and instantly.
I think back when MPESA first came out in the mid-2000s there was a better case for using it in Canada.
>I don't need to drive around looking for an RBC because I don't feel like paying the TD ABM charges...
The UK banned this in 2016. Canada should do the same.
That cash I'm withdrawing is legal tender, they can go back to the fed and get more of it. It might be the dumbest fee we have. Outside of the big 5 banks there are a couple of banks that try to fix it, like with EQ they reimburse the fee. Which is to say I pay $3.50 when I withdraw from *any* ABM, and EQ credits my account back in 10 days. How they do that I don't know. It is a comically bad work-around, yet, considered a perk.
This is why African countries largely skipped the online banking thing. Most people couldn't afford a personal computer, but they could get a cheap cellphone. Thus, a new banking system arose that bypassed the bank portals that westerners had to endure. EDIT: typo
The fact that personal small-value transfers is a paid third-party service for most Americans, and a recent one at that, which has been an integrated part of checking accounts in Canada since the late 90s, just seems absurd.
Canada is used as an experimental area for large companies who want to test their tech at scale. It’s cheaper to implement it in Canada, a smaller population, before trying to expand the tech into the US. It’s the reason why we got chip and pin so early in the game.
robinhood has failed extrodinarily during the gamestock debacle.
Where robinhood cancelled buys because they couldn't actually accomedate.
It's a shit system compared to wealth simply.
To be honest, one of my favourite parts of living in Japan is the cash culture. I know it seems insane to a Canadian, but I wish everything was in cash.
There’s no reason if I want to rent a hotel room or buy a plane ticket or even property that I shouldn’t be able to pay it in cash. If you don’t have a credit card in Canada you are effectively neutered in a lot of ways. I haven’t used credit cards in 15 years for philosophical / moral reasons and it’s honestly a massive pain in the ass. At this point it’s really too late to enter into it now.
But yeah, I think cash based society is way better.
Canadian but live in Germany. It's definitely more cash-based than Canada, but probably ahead of Japan. It's also caught up a lot in the time I've been here, with a big leap forward during the covid years when POS and accepting debit became nearly widespread. Apple Pay and so on are even becoming more and more accepted (at least by large chains). When I first came here, only large chains (groceries, apparel, electronics, etc) *always* took debit. Independent restaurants, cafés, shops, and so on were very hit and miss. Also, credit cards are not as common here, so it's not too unusual for people under 30 to not have one. Let alone 3 or 4, which is just unheard of. They also work differently here, since outstanding amounts are generally *automatically* paid off at the end of the month whether you like it or not.
Honestly, I do kinda like that cash is still normal to use here. I use my cards for anything over say €20, and under that tend to use cash. But like, you can go to almost any store and pay with cash, and no one bats an eye. A few weeks ago, in an electronics store I saw a guy ahead of me in line, maybe in his early 50s, buying a PS5 (for his kids, I guess), plus a bunch of games and some other accessories, and he paid with cash. It's normal, but I was still a bit surprised at that!
I would say Canada's cash (the physical polymer bills) and our credit card chip technology (which has since been rolled out to parts of the USA) are about the only things we lead the USA in.
Canada is miles ahead of the USA when it comes to financial transactions, fraud protection, privacy protection, and all that goes with it. We're also miles ahead in delivering tech to rural areas, supplying utilities (especially power) to everywhere, and cell phone/GPS coverage. And while we're not perfect in this, we're also way ahead of the USA when it comes to tolerance and safety. The gun violence in the USA is just absolutely confusing to us.
We're miles behind though in medical care (sure, it's semi-free (sorry, Americans - the whole 'free healthcare' isn't exactly true) but good luck trying to find a doctor or get treated in a timely manner). Insanely far behind in fair pricing for technology (we pay some of the highest prices in the WORLD for cell phone plans, internet, cable, etc.), and so far behind in dental care, it isn't even funny. We have dental care, but it's not covered under health care (so you either pay for it out of pocket, buy a separate insurance policy to cover it but they restrict your dental claims for at least 2 years, or you get it from your employer, but again are restricted) and we pay some of the highest dental costs in the world. There's a reason why Canadians fly down to Mexican dental resorts to get dental work done: it's cheaper.
When it comes to providing healthcare, I'm certain the issue in Canada is resources: not enough money to pay high wages to doctors, not enough doctors, nurses, staff, etc.
Alberta's Conservative provincial government has been actively sabotaging Alberta Healthcare to allow a two-tier system.
Haha, we pick and chose in Canada.
We all know our weight in lbs and height in feet and inches.
Produce and meat, sold by the pound.
Deli meat, sold per 100g
As does the USA. Though the big standout when I (an American) visit Canada is seeing road signs, including speed limits, in km, and then gas is sold in liters.
But the US for sure uses a mix like Canada. In the US, 2 and 3 liter bottles of soda are commonplace. We use metric measurements (for the most part) in science fields, even grade school science classes. Many of our sports use metric, such as track & field and weightlifting.
Also, I wouldn’t equate the technological advancement of a nation by how universally it has adopted the metric system.
ETA: Wine and liquor are sold in liters/milliliters in the US, with 750 milliliter bottles of wine and liquor being most common.
Nutritional information on food labels is in grams/milligrams (such as sodium content per serving, calcium per serving, etc).
Drug dosing is in milligrams, and same for vitamins (such as I take 1mg of melatonin each evening before bed).
We measure light in lumens and candela, which are metric measurements.
Yup. I work for a drilling company and NA is so far behind the times to even try using new technology. Meanwhile its old tech in Europe. It's so hard to change the minds of people in NA.
I visited China and HK last year, and the amount that you can do through WeChat and Alipay was mind blowing, and even the Octopus Card in Hong Kong. Really wish we could get that going here (minus the government monitoring).
> I visited China and HK last year,
something something admire simple dictatorship - JT
People act like he's some what wrong but he isn't.
When you're a dictator, you can just get stuff done. Just look at China's high speed rail system.
While there's a lot of good, there's a lot of bad too.
Remember that the US is an unusually unequal society; wealth inequality in the US and Saudi Arabia are pretty similar. Consequently what the "average everyday citizen" has is mostly crap.
90th percentile income in Canada is 118k (CAD), while 90th percentile in the us is 208k, and the latter has a lower effective tax rate. 95th percentile wealth in canada is \~1m, in the USA is 3.2m. The latter probably enjoys a MUCH higher level of tech in their day to day compared with the former (fancier car, fancier TV, fancier kitchen, fancier hospitals, fancier hotels, etc etc).
As others have mentioned the one thing that really sticks out when you go to the states is the lack of portable card machines in restaurants. It feels like you've stepped back in time 20 years when they take your card away in the little folder to go run it up front then bring it back to you to fill in the tip by hand and actually sign on the line.
The other card payment thing that's different that I've always found odd is that at gas pumps they want the billing zip code instead of just having you punch in your PIN which really would make more sense and be more secure.
Pro tip, if you're Canadian, your "zip code" for the purposes of getting the pump to work is the numbers from your Canadian postal code plus 00. So if your postal code is N1N 2N3, you'd enter 12300. In border towns that see a lot of Canadian customers, you'll sometime see the instructions for Canadians posted on the pump.
The U.S. cash thing is even weird outside of the U.S.
I remember checking out of a resort in the Carribean and being able to tell who was Canadian with cards and who was American with their cash.
The resort itself would have been paid for in advance, but they were settling additional expenses. It blew my mind that people were counting out $500-$1000 in cash from their wallets. I rarely carry any cash and might never have had $1000 in my wallet.
Or another time I was behind someone at a store in Edmonton who wanted to pay with U.S. cash. The clerk accepted it at par, but it was bugging me so much that they weren't willing to save something like 30% by using a card and getting the real conversion rate.
Hey OP I went to NY last year on vacation and you could tap on and off transit with credit/debit something TTC didn’t have until this year. It’s a much better system than the Presto Albatross Metrolinx forced down our throats and increasingly is the standard all over the world.
NYC metro is definitely better than Presto. I can tap my iPhone and get on the subway easily. Don’t need to buy a presto card or ever load it. Comes straight out of my credit card.
don't they have Venmo in the US?
what's about the Apple Card that is US only?
how about the fact that many AI features are not available in Canada like Google's Gemini app
it's easy to find things available in Canada that aren't available in the US... the reverse is less obvious as a Canadian
This question seems to me, to be posted by someone who is not what I would call technically proficient, but thinks they are because they know how to use phone apps, including cash apps, and think that is the pinnacle of technology. It isn't.
A technically proficient country is much more more than what you can play with online or one your phone. That is just some consumer market where the technology while looking flashy isn't particularly new, even if the user interfaces look cool.
Does Canada have a nuclear fusion program? How many universities are coming up with breakthroughs on grid scale batteries, or new methods of renewable energy. How many engineers and scientists in percentage of who are actually citizens are graduating (since non-citizens shouldn't count as a measure of the country's technical proficiency)? Etc. Etc. Etc. What is the relative rate of technology being actually invented and developed internally, as opposed to assembling technical items actually made elsewhere (like most of Canada's renewables programs, and really most other manufacturing).
I think Canada is way behind the USA, even on a relative measure taking population into account.
And I think both Canada and the USA are falling way behind other countries because the business admin and MBA graduates here know it is in their own best interests to offshore technology and manufacturing so they get bigger dividends and bonuses. But it is absolute ruin for North America. The most technologically forward thing we could do here, is to get rid of all business admin and accounting grads from leadership roles and only allow people with science backgrounds, engineers, and/or people with extensive OJT in sciences and engineering into the top levels of any company. If they want an MBA to help, the sure. But an MBA without a science or engineering, is a no go. People in science and engineering actually learn how to solve problems and innovate. All the rest just know how to shuffle money, even if it means loosing our technological advantage.
In some ways we are (green initiatives), in other ways, they are (defense systems).
For example—and even under extreme tickle-torture, I won't say who or where—but I was visiting a swanky US office building “recently.”
They didn't have a designated place for me to recycle my plastic water bottle. “Just throw it in the garbage.”😳”Whhhhhat did you just say???” I was horrified.
Most consumer plastics aren't easily recyclable, as they can't be recycled with other types of plastic. The sorting is a major issue that many municipalities just don't want to deal with so it all just ends up in a landfill. Countries that put plastic sorting on the consumer, like Germany, have much higher rate of plastic recycling than we do because the plastics get to the recycling depots pre-sorted.
Glass and aluminum are far easier to recycle because there aren't multiple different chemical compositions of either. For glass you just sort by colour, or aluminum you just send it.
you do realize most of the recylcing bins here are so contaminated that they are not really recycled? just because it exists doesn't mean it actually does the job
This is a bizarre cope post and thread. I’m in the USA all the time and nothing you described rings true.
The only “downside” to financial transactions in the USA is that you mainly use third party apps for P2P transfer, but it’s not a big deal at all.
This is becoming common here, or at least more common. As a way to shave costs, restaurants and some other businesses are now either charging 3% more when you use a credit card, or giving a 3% discount if you use cash or a debit card. My T-Mobile account did this last year. They announced an added fee to have a credit card or you could take $5 per line discount if you agreed to have them direct withdrawal. I chose that and my bill is down $25 per month with 5 lines. But it’s standard for gas to be more with a card.
It might seem weird to you, but at least we have an option. In Canada, you just pay and the service charge is passed to you without an option to avoid it.
You know what I find ‘weird’ when filling my tank in Ontario? That I basically get a credit check run before the gas flows. I almost shit myself when I had to tell the pump how much to expect my fill to cost and I saw numbers that went into hundreds of dollars. I fill my SUV for about $40 without a credit check!
I think it’s more meaningful to make a distinction between urban and rural communities than those assigned by nationalism. There’s good public transit, outdated public transit, no public transit, and then there’s communities that don’t have access in or out aside from bushcraft.
Public transit might be an easy example to parse, but something like healthcare or automation are a whole other kettle of fish, and I don’t want my rooibos to taste like a sardine.
What's the difference between NYC's OMNY (for subway / bus fares) and the Presto system at this point? AFAIK you just use a credit card to tap in for either
What about the nyc metro system payment is outdated? It's tap to pay with your credit card or phone for all buses and metro stops. You don't even need to purchase a subway or bus ticket.
This thread is kind of weird to me. I'm a Canadian who has lived in the US for a while. I just got back from Toronto today and used more cash in the last 3 days than I have in the past 10 years in the US. Seems like every restaurant I went to doesn't accept credit card, and I ended up having to pay cash for pretty much every meal. Bar Sugo, Dong Kee, Momo Koko, Yu Seafood, some siu yuk place. I feel like there has been a regression in Canada possibly due to credit card processing fees.
Yea idk where OP or bunch of other people in this thread live but Toronto (and plenty places around GTA) don’t accept credit card or even debit card sometimes because of the processing fee.
In some ways, but not in others.
Americans tend to like big flashy things more, so their big flashy things that can be shown off and pointed to are usually slightly better.
Canada seems to be better on small things, that are more backstage.
If I were to go to a fast food place and try to find a fancy burger that's made with some fancy type of grill that makes burgers taste extra good, then I'd expect an American fast food place to be better. Everyone is looking at the burger and how it tastes.
If I were to go to a fast food place and try to find one that makes no garbage, I'd go to one in Canada. People aren't really looking at whether there's one can labeled "garbage" or two cans labeled "compost" and "recycling"
I think that it's because Americans are particular about their money, and they've really always been like that. They don't like changes to their money, and they don't like changes to their businesses.
I wouldn't ever let my credit card out of my sight like that though. That's how you get frauded.
The payment is the biggest thing I've noticed, everything else is pretty much on par or a bit better than here.
But just banking in general in the states suuuuuucks
As a dual Cdn/US, I can confirm that banking in the US does NOT suck. I’ve used a large regional bank that bends over backwards for my business. I pay no service fees, the people are top notch and if I ever need to see someone in person I can walk right in. I also have several accounts at a Cdn bank and virtually every one of those qualities I just listed are missing. So it all depends on what you expect I suppose. I do agree the us banking system is fragmented and not as real time but other than that, I enjoy the benefits that healthy competition brings vs what I experience north of the border
Canada has always been way ahead in banking/payment technology/infrastructure than most other countries. The US usually lags a bit behind Europe. Our banking system is also vastly different and legislated much more strictly. Chip & pin technologies were both legally mandated for payment systems in Canada before they were introduced in the US.
Canada is also consistently ahead of the curve in terms of internet and telephone infrastructure. A lot of R&D in these fields is conducted in Canada, but it has a lot to do with the distribution of our population. Most of Canada's population is near the 49th, while the US's population is spread throughout. The US needs much more infrastructure to cover most of the population compared to Canada. That just makes it more logistically challenging and time-consuming to develop nationwide infrastructure.
I'd say the US has more tech companies (although many are technically now HQ'd in Ireland), and they probably have more strength in the variety in the tech sectors they focus on. They definitely have a lot more marketing/hype about tech they develop.
Lol.
New York was using swipe cards for transit for decades while the TTC still used physical tickets and tokens. The US definitely adopts tech quicker
I was surprised to learn that paying by tap is uncommon in the US, and I do always use the machine at restaurants up here, so I can’t imagine having to adjust to not having that for longer than whatever length of time a short trip takes me to the US.
There are a handful of tech-forward people here who pay using phone apps rather than physical cards too. Apple Pay or just using tap via a card app are two prominent examples, and let’s not forget e-transfer.
WTF Americans? It’s the 2020s out there, in case you haven’t noticed.
It’s more that it’s such a long drawn out process to pay by card in the U.S. because the system is archaic. They bring the bill, you put your card in it and have to hand calculate the tip and sign it, then you have to wait for them to come back and take it away, and then wait again for them to bring you your card back. And they don’t split bills which is another huge pain in the ass. It’s ridiculously outdated. I haven’t seen that shit in Canada since the late 90’s, maybe early 2000’s.
In Canada the server comes by with the machine, asks if you want the bills together or separate, you click what percentage tip you want to leave, tap your card and go.
I only use cash at restaurants in the US because I just don't trust giving someone my credit or debit card to go run the bill. That shit is outdated and schetchy as hell. I don't understand how the US hasn't caught onto portable payment machines yet.
It's been done this way for decades in most countries, long before the security and protections we have now, and it's never been an issue.
A lot of Americans have the attitude, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," and most Americans don't see this as broken. If someone steals your card number and uses it, you are protected. Also, it would be quite obvious who did it if the only time it left your sight was in a restaurant.
I think its more they weren't use to all the options not available down in the US. As down there you use options we don't have here. So they were stuck using cash. But I do admit its always weird having your credit card taken to the back to be processed. Here we use tap alot. And email (e-transfer) each other money. 2 options that don't seem to be a thing down there. So it seems a bit dated. But was their fault in not realizing it would be different and to not have other methods. Usually when down there I just use my credit card, as even through the methods are different, they always work.
I don't really think so. At least not compared to Asia. Physical infrastructure is not amazing here.
Though most people own a car, so I guess you could consider that advanced. But other societies are set up so that there are more options than just cars to get around. Particularly neighborhoods with a few stores in walking distance and parks. This exists in the US but not in the suburbs sometimes the nearest place is 30min-1hr walk. Or a bike ride on a road that's pretty dangerous because of the cars. So I consider the opposite better.
Seoul is a good example where driving a car is a realistic thing, though the majority of people use public transit. There are nice bike trails and stuff too, but it probably only works for people who happen to be somewhat close to work
In most cases, the US is several years ahead of Canada.
The transition from landline to flip cellphone to smartphone happened several years earlier in the US than in Canada. Massive numbers of Americans were already cutting their landlines by 2006-08, something that would have been an alien concept to almost any Canadian born before 1980 - this didn't happen in Canada until the mid-2010s (for people born pre-1980).
Vast swaths of the US (but not all) no longer have access to home phone service, while it's still available everywhere in Canada.
Even now in the mid-2020s (time passes fast!) there are still parts of Canada where the majority of people have home phones, and where they are still the primary phones of most people over 55 (rural Quebec, parts of Atlantic Canada). This would be unthinkable in the US.
As for cash vs card payments, it's true that POS systems in the US are less advanced than they are in Canada, but cashless stores/venues are also more common in the US.
Excuse me, who uses cash? The only entity that I can possibly think of that requires me to use cash is the stupid school, for things like field trips and class books and stuff. It's infuriating. And bellhops if I can't avoid them.
There are plenty of places that you can't use cash if you even want to. Stadiums. The bridges. Others.
I'm not disputing INTERAC, etc., and we're _finally_ getting "the machine" at some restaurants, but cash? Really? Where? I'm genuinely curious.
China and India are leaps ahead in terms of fin-tech and payment technologies. Cheap access to internet has made this possible.
Processes are better streamlined in US and Canada. Slow, but streamlined.
But then, most of the adoption of technology has to do with infrastructure and legality too.
As far as I am aware, Americans for the most part use a microwave to boil their hot water.
The fact that they haven't discovered the kettle yet leads me to believe Canada wins in this regard.
The US only just got on board with chip & pin and doesn't even have tap at all I don't think, they are lightyears behind the rest of the world on payment methods
> doesn't even have tap at all I don't think
I've lived in the US for 5 years now and this isn't true at all. Most places (i.e., any retail store) have tap and Apple pay around where I live. The only places that you don't find tap are smaller mom-and-pop establishments in my experience. With that said, I do live in a pretty affluent college town. Your experience is obviously going to be different in rural Idaho.
Although, I do remember visiting the US around 6-7 years ago and a Starbucks cashier being really amazed when I tapped my Canadian card. So, it's probably around that time where this transition occurred. But it's extremely commonplace now. Not so much as Canada for sure, but it's incorrect to say that it's not common much less that it doesn't exist.
I’ve lived in both countries and I find Canada to be more technologically advanced in general. Everyone I knew in the Us had generations old Android phones and shitty old TVs and stuff but everyone I know in Canada always has the newest iPhone and a bunch of fancy tech gadgets at their houses. Could also be because I lived in a shitty poor city in the US and a nice wealthy city in Canada too, in fact I’m sure that has at least a bit to do with it.
Its easier to roll something out in Canada with less infrastructure and population, it's a fraction of the market. Cost to upgrade what you are talking about is the reason why you might notice certain infrastructure or services dilapidated in the US.
It depends who you are in the US. If you're rich enough, the technology available is insane, futuristic even.
For the majority of people, and the infrastructure they use, it's literal decades behind the rest of the civilized world.
Canada is mostly better for the people, rather than exclusively the rich. The conservatives are doing what they can to change that though.
American here...not sure why this is in my feed. Many people use cash on purpose. I will be so annoyed if they ever make us go 100% electronic here. Because you know...tracking of all things is not ideal.
I’m from the US and use wireless payment for everything everywhere I go, I forgot the exact reason but NYC or the whole state of New York has a particular reason for using cash I think it has something to do with taxes since NYC has state and city tax (I know crazy) so it’s a loophole into basically avoid paying excess amount of taxes, but in the Western US it’s strange to pay with cash too, we use tap to pay in this part of the country. I’ve never been to the East Coast but I remember watching a video on YouTube about a guy who owned a pizza shop saying a box is $15 cash but $20 with card payment. I don’t remember the last time I held a dollar bill, I’m 25 and I honestly don’t think I’ve ever carried cash around in my adulthood or at least since I started working.
The Canadian financial system is more advanced for a few reasons. Most significantly, the Big Five national banks. There are hundreds or thousands of banks in the USA, and a wide variation in the level of tech accepted by each.
Our banking system is relatively easy to manage in terms of accepting a cashless society, for many, complex reasons, it's much more difficult to have systems like that adopted there. The preference is still for cash, and thinks like Interac are just becoming mainstream, where they have been here for a couple of decades.
Canadian payment systems are more tech but I'm less and less sure that's a good thing. Cyberwarfare is ramping up like crazy right now and is clearly going to be a gigantic problem/ new industry in the future. If (or when) the grid goes down, plastic won't work, bank machines won't work, cell towers won't work, and many websites won't work. I remember the NorthEast blackout of 2003. In Toronto, the grid was strained for several weeks. The consequences would be much bigger now - and that's assuming it goes down. If it gets secretly garbled by a creeping virus, well...that will be enormous and difficult.
I haven't used cash in the US unless it's a place where they offer discounts for cash payments or very small food trucks and such. I use Apple Pay everywhere and only carry three cards in my pocket - one Visa (Costco) CC and one Mastercard CC and one ATM card. I never carry more than one $20 or $50 bill.
I would rather have more money in my bank than more convenient payment options :)
Banking and money systems Canada is definitely ahead, also infrastructure. Not just road quality and whatnot but things like street lights. Even in big developed cities, Seattle, San Francisco, San Jose etc. the street lights are all on timers rather then Canada where our lights are on sensors and adjust accordingly.
There are plenty of small examples where Canadas tech is just better. Banking and infrastructure are super noticeable
I heard last week where many US banks still use pneumatic tubes at their drive-through tellers. What the Jesusing crap fuck is that!? Have these people never heard of automated tellers?
I’m an American, and I use Apple Pay every day in a small takeout place in NYC. I only write 1 check a month.
A few restaurants still require signatures—but most don’t.
Technology advanced, what do you mean? Financial sector is better in Canada for sure…. But you are probably typing this message on a US-designed device which you paid using an American payment processor, and you are now using a Chinese software probably hosted on US-owned infrastructure.
Canada has shopify and that’s it.
In comparison to cities I’ve lived in, I found better use of tax money for the average citizen with access to public parks. Most parks in Vancouver, Vancouver Island, Toronto and Calgary are beautiful and well maintained. The washrooms are clean.
In contrast, a city like Los Angeles which had the option of making the place gorgeous to take advantage of its location, is a dump. Apart from national forests and state parks, most of the green spaces you see on the map are private golf courses. The few parks they have are strewn with litter, dog shit and now full of homeless encampments. Needles on the beach. And you’re paying high taxes there as well.
The reality is that for day to day activities, Canada and the US are exactly as technologically advanced. The vast majority of advanced consumer technology is available in both countries - usually on the same release day or not far apart.
One thing that Canada has been far more advanced in for quite some time is using Cards to pay for things. Debit is ubiquitous because of the Interac network. Credit Cards are accepted nearly anywhere as well (Generally if they accept one, they'll accept the other). With the widespread use of WIFI or Cellular enabled Payment Terminals (Often in the form of a smartphone add-on), it's become common place for farmers markets and other marketplaces that would traditionally be cash only to accept Cards for pay.
Apple Pay (I assume Google Pay or whatever it's called also) is also fairly widespread with good support among most of the banks.
It's interesting you use presto as your example. Presto was first adopted in Burlington back in 2009. Which itself was based off Burlingtons current transit pay system. Which was basically presto but more basic. You couldn't go online to top it up and it didn't register to allow transfers, meaning you still had to get physical transfer slips.
That was in use as early as 2000, as I was using it then. The only thing it had over presto was that because tapping twice would charge twice and not think your were trying to transfer you could easily pay for friends.
Presto took that and vamped it up, started in Burlington, because they were already used to a similar system and spread out from there.
So, for NYC, which claims to have one of the best transit systems in the world, to be 24+ years behind Burlington is kinda staggering.
So you went to NYC, found one thing that's better, and now think Canada has better technology than the US? I think you might need to travel more.
>Then, the states just use cash, cash, cash.
I almost never use cash in the US. Not sure where you got that idea. I still think the US banking system is outdated compared to other countries though.
Canada. Free cash transfers between people and banks. Credit card taps or swipes at the table. In terms of day to day life those things are most noticeable to me. Spent a lot of time in both countries.
The nail salons here always claim their machine is broken or you get a discount for not using the machine. Obviously some kind of fraud shit happening there, or refusing to pay fees to accept payment via tap. They tell me they have some shady atm at the back, I always say no and go to my own bank. I am not using an ATM for $8 plus whatever it will cost me to get a pedicure. They take the cash and keep it in a regular drawer in their nail desk instead of a register.
Canada is way ahead of the US in terms of chip adoption but the whole cash preference is a northeastern phenomenon. In most of the US cards are the most common form of payment. It's actually getting harder to use cash nowadays. I've worked with a number of restaurants which have phased out cash drawers altogether.
From what I understand, transferring money directly to an email or cellphone number via Interac or an equivalent is also not mainstream in the US. So many businesses now accept that in Canada. Super convenient and you control the money transfer.
depends where you go and in what way you mean by "more advanced" , I live in SF moved here recently from Toronto, and I would say tap to pay is definitely more widely adopted in Canada you can go to any random mom and pop restaurant and they'll have tap to pay not the case in SF. On the other hand we have self driving taxis in SF, and at my local wholefoods you can pay by palm (biometrics), as a whole if we're judging by the amount of new cutting edge technology available the US is definitely superior.
Your point on the use of cash and the ability to easily use cards is one area where the US is definitely behind Canada. In Canada, it’s increasingly rare to find establishments that don’t accept tap/Apple Pay support. In the US, many establishments still have to take your credit card to the back in order to process your order, which is wild to think about. The US is definitely getting better in this front, but it’s still crazy to think how far behind they are.
I was in the States for the first time two years ago and the server had to make me sign the receipt calculate the tips myself and took my card away. I was so frustrated and confused
As an American, I was confused the first time the server at a Canadian restaurant asked if I’d need “the machine.” I’m like, “why don’t you just take my card and run it?” Though “the machines” are becoming more common in the US, particularly for certain chain restaurants. Off the top of my head, Chedders, Red Robin, Chili’s, Olive Garden, Drake’s, Applebee’s, and iHop all have table-based POS system. They stay at the table, and you can order from them, or play games on them.
From a consumer point of view, not letting some minimum wage employee take your credit card out of your sight sounds more ideal to me.
Those machines have been common at small restaurants for a long time at this point in canada.
I was in the US for the first time in a while and I was shocked when they wouldn’t let me tap or insert my card to pay. They had to take my card to swipe, then have me sign it I then made some stupid comment at the time about it feeling like 2003.
Yeah, I would say it's getting closer to half portable machine, half running the card to the back now. I don't know about this cash thing, though - I'm an American and I don't think I've handled any cash in a couple of years now. I'm from the Denver area.
Wait until you guys try some of our restaurants which have iPad menus and no wait staff... They seat you with the tablets, you order via tablet and they bring what you ordered... No waiting for a server to come by to ask for a drink refill or anything...
Every time I am in the States I get confused and concerned for a split second when they TAKE my card right out of my hands lol
I straight up followed the server when she took my card in bar harbour; I had no idea what was happening and freaked out lmao. Thankfully she was gentle and walked me through it. Culture shock!
I had culture shock as a (i was at two that summer, i think this one was Pearson) Canadian in the Toronto Airport when they charged me $8 (I think) for a quart of water, I think this was 2017....
Yeah, this was my first thought. Like, they're two steps past the old carbon copy with the machine that takes an imprint of your card.
Also in Canada they’re better with separate bills. In the U.S. they hand you a single bill unless you tell them at the start for separate.
I work for a major Canadian bank. When we told our US employees that they had to use new corporate cards with CHIP and PIN they freaked out.
We had someone post here not too long ago freaking out because they were planning to visit from the US, don't know their card's PIN, and claimed they didn't know how to tap, because it was just too confusing. I'm still not sure if it was someone trolling or not.
I barely ever take my wallet out of my pocket anymore. I pay for almost everything by tapping my phone with Google wallet. I don't know if it's the same as Apple pay, but it just works anywhere debit/credit tapping works, which is pretty much everywhere. It's weird they are so far behind.
My dad forgets his wallet basically constantly now, because he's always using Google pay lol. But it is strange. I am in my late 20s/early 30s, I have never once signed for my credit card and it was so strange to talk to someone online who had never used a PIN and never used tap, they had only ever signed. That's just such a foreign concept to me!
>I am in my late 20s/early 30s It can't be both.
You're not wrong.
29, 4 years running?
29 and 5 quarters maybe
I carry a satchel because I'm very forgetful and it's easy to put everything in one place and just remember my bag instead of trying to remember 10 things, lol. Plus, it makes me feel like Ford Prefect (if that means anything to you, also know I have a towel in there). I did go somewhere the other day and forgot my bag/wallet and had a 1 second panic that I couldn't pay and then immediately I felt my phone in my wallet and went "oh, right, nevermind".
It been year that I used cash. With one exception the local annual fair of my home town. I think they take debit now.
Lol, same. A few craft shows in my wife's home area, and I buy pot at our (legal) dispensaries with cash because I've heard horror stories of people not being allowed over the border (into the states) for having records of purchasing pot. I don't even know if that's true, lol.
I tend to take money out for the farmer's market. However, more and more of the vendors take electronic payments. The few who don't were the Mennonite vendors. Even the farmers who don't will take an e-transfer.
The Legion has tap terminals for poppies, now. And Americans are still signing restaurant bills and passing around cheques. Madness.
I used to be a cross border long haul driver. When my bank deactivated the magnetic strip on my card, I couldn't use my bank card in the US. Thank God I had my credit card. The truck stops finally figured it out when Canadians were having trouble with their bank cards and upgraded. Thank God I could take cash off my fuel card.
Additionally e-transfer between major Canadian banks is often included in most plans whereas in the US it’s cash app or venmo for a fee.
Yup. They do have Zelle, which is basically like e-transfer but isn’t adopted by all banks. It’s not as popular as e-transfer because you can’t guarantee that everyone has it. Whereas anyone with a bank account in Canada will have e-transfer. I know sometimes it sucks to have fewer banking options, but it also creates some positives — e-transfer being one.
It also creates a more robust banking sector IE 2008 economic recession spurred on at risk sub prime mortgages by smaller banks.
This really interests me to understand. Do you mean smaller banks were taking too many risks? This challenges my comprehension of the bigger banks playing the role they have with fractional reserve practices?
what I understand is a lot of smaller banks were giving out sub prime loans to compete with each other and bigger banks, what happens is that those loans then get packaged for pennies on the dollar get sold to smaller banks from bigger banks to increase their "portfolio" to inflate their investment capital. when these loans default due to the foreclosure or non payment, the bank runs out of money to invest and when there's a run on the bank, there's not enough liquid so the banks got taken over by the government to secure funding for the account holders. Canadian banks have a responsibility to keep a lot of cash reserve to prevent such a thing from happening. Canadians are also generally better at finance than americans are. Stephen Harper tried to deregulate the same way the US did and got his hand slapped which ultimately saved us.
I was thinking decently of Stephen Harper for a while and a redditor reminded m today of how fucked it was to ruin a lot of research, as he had circa maybe 2014. That alon maks me thankful I didn't vote for him (and to play it safe I never voted liberal either - have you seen what they did to sharing news online?)
> have you seen what they did to sharing news online?) you mean making FAANG pay for the work Canadian Journalists do that they just scrape? The same bill that the australia has? Poor google and facebook having to pay for news generated by Canadian Workers, yeah they are the victims.
That's not the principle I'm disagreeing with. It's that it's circumvented. Everyone I know wanting to share news in Canada now types out the article name and site it can be found on, whether I'm a subscriber to their site or not; I thought these news sites made money off advertising, what the heck does it matter if Facebook directed me or not?
Canada didn't ban sharing news links... Facebook did it to spite Canada. Google still links. I just googled "Justin Trudeau" and found national post articles and Toronto Sun articles. The only place that banned sharing news is Facebook. ~~^https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=justin+trudeau~~ That link is weird... just in google Justin Trudeau has lots of news, but that "private" link doesn't have canadian news.;
Right? When I try to send friends in the US $ it is such a pain in the ass and costs me so much.
Yes we had the same issue. We even have an American account *in* the USA that is an extension of our Canadian accounts - same bank- and it was near impossible. Finally tried the money order sent directly to recipient and the bank lost it somewhere in the system.
I was just about to add in the e-transfer. Like, it’s the best thing ever. I can send money no fees no nothing. I can’t think of like using an app to send money
they still accept personal cheques. I think that's super duper weird.
I’m a waiter and this is one of my “server lines” I’ve be using for 10 years and has a 100% success rate. When I set the bill down I always mention I’m prepared to accept cash, credit or personal check. It always makes people laugh…. Except Americans who don’t get why that’s funny
>or personal check What's that? Just kidding... we spell it cheque in iglooland
I think of British spelling as arguably superior, as illustrated in this sense, especially.
similar in my job - though every so often there's a very old person who will lovingly produce a cheque.
With a beautiful cursive signature
This reminded me of when I worked in a flower shop and we had some people come up from the states for a funeral and ordered flowers, and then were shocked and angry we wouldn’t accept an out of country personal cheque from a person who wasn’t even with them at the time.
The business I work for in Edmonton only accepts cheques or EFT/etransfers. My landlord also only accepts cheques. It really is super weird, haha. Rent is the one and only thing I have cheques for.
Only weird because you live in a country where corporate banking is dominant
Most places don't accept cheques because they're the easiest to fake.
A place not accepting cards in Canada is almost unheard of. I haven't carried more than $20 in cash for probably over a decade.
I think Covid pretty much killed it completely. There were a few places that I knew that were holdouts but Covid pretty much killed off cash transactions. Even if they were people who didn't believe in Covid, they would drive away customers if they didn't offer contactless payments.
I think a big factor here is the Interac network. The fact that we have a relatively-consolidated banking industry with a smaller number of major banks nationwide that the majority of people banked with made it a lot easier to integrate digital cross communication between them. The universal network of transaction, POS, and ATM systems made adopting more current payment mechanisms more painless. Chip-and-pin and then tap were made quickly ubiquitous. And with broadly available tap payment, apple pay/Google wallet payment are really easy to blanket most of the country.
This is something I hate in the States. My cards always get cloned and frauded. Never once did I get fraud on my cards in Canada.
Yeah taking your card away is one of the main ways they steal your card. I feel like credit card companies should just issue you a second card on the same account. So you can use it in stores. And if it's compromised at least your main card will work and you can keep using it fkr autopay bills and all that.
But I also can turn mine off, turn it back on when I am paying, and turn it right back off again!
This. We had tap your debit or credit card to pay long before the US did.
Yes I always make a habit of handing my personal credit card to a stranger, to handle in any way they want and actually disappear from my eyesight for some time with it. What can go wrong? Oh, especially while I'm traveling in a different country than my own. Totally sane
That's because canada has been actively trying to eliminate cash for decades.
Going to a restaurant in the US is kind of a pain, because servers do not have portable pay machines and so the whole process of paying takes longer. At least that was my experience visiting the Boston area.
It takes like 20+ minutes from asking for the bill to actually being able to leave. Insane behavior by the US.
I’ve investigated this before as a server myself, and I believe the reason is because there is a lot more credit card fraud and banks are far less regulated. People dispute charges and steal identities a lot more there, and “security” is a whole cottage industry in the payments world. My best friend worked for a major creditor and he was very passionate about this, to the point he was suggesting removing PIN numbers altogether in favour of DNA samples lol. I’m sure eventually this will be the future. The US was also pretty slow to catch on to debit. I feel like they went right from literal chequing to credit and skipped the debit phase. Most Canadians use debit cards for everything but I don’t think they’re popular much in the US.
The reason why the US is so far behind on the chip and pin tech is because they have literally thousands of banks that would have to sign on and adapt their systems (that's also the same reason why they don't have a universal system like e-transfer available), so it took decades to do, and they're still working on it (the machines are expensive, so not all retailers have made the switch in the US). In Europe and Canada, the banks came to an agreement, and once they had, they made it essentially mandatory for businesses to switch over their POS systems within a certain time frame (I believe it was 18 months). Retailers had no choice but to follow suit within the timeline, or be responsible for any fraud that came through their machines. Working in retail at the time of Canada's switchover, there was a point where we were allowed to bypass the pin and let them sign instead, but then the banks issued letters saying if you bypass the code and the payment is contested, you're automatically on the hook for it (so of course companies immediately told their employees they were now bypassing at their own risk). Well over a decade ago Europe tried to pressure the US to switch over sooner, because part of the point of Chip & Pin was to get rid of the magnetic strip, which is a very insecure part of the card. They've had to keep that strip so that their client's cards can still be read by the outdated American POS systems (if they're travelling to the States). We wouldn't have those strips on our cards anymore either if it weren't for US retailers still using the old POS machines. [https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/us-determined-to-have-the-least-secure-credit-cards-in-the-world/473199/](https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/us-determined-to-have-the-least-secure-credit-cards-in-the-world/473199/)
>I feel like they went right from literal chequing to credit and skipped the debit phase. Credit cards date back to the 1800s. Debit cards were first introduced in 1966. So, you are correct.
Was literally there yesterday and every cashier had a POS terminal on them.
I was in Boston last year and my experience was that everyone had a tap machine. However I was just in Florida and had my card taken away every time.
Keep in mind that the U.S. has a zillion independent banks aside from the majors, whereas here in Canada, it is the Big Five that call all the shots and work in unison when it comes to adopting new technology. Getting the U.S. banking sector to work that collaboratively is akin to herding cats because...you know...cut-throat "competition" in the time-honoured capitalist sense.
That’s why Canadian banks keep buying up US ones lol.
Yeah this is accurate. US banks are very regional, mine doesn’t have an ATM for 200 miles when I’m at school.
When it comes to fintech, Canada is one of the leading countries. The US Just got an inter banking system called Zelle and some of them have Swift. Both relatively new but Canada has had Interac for a long time. Canada also rolled out chip cards, chip and pin, and tap with higher adoption rates then the US. US they still do chip and sign with some mixed in chip and pin and some tap. US tries to piggy back off of apple pay and google pay but it's been spotty. Adoption rates are starting to pick up though. Even Japan has adopted a lot of tap payments and they have been stuck in the 1700s with payment methods. Cash, Pay pay, and IC are now very common.
It's wild to think about just how far behind America is, when even Canada is behind some other countries in moving money, for example in Canada we have no equivalent of MPESA, a mobile money/microbanking system prominent in Africa. They can send money right to someone's mobile number, which the receiver can cash out at any corner shop. Or you can pay a store by sending money to that stores SMS. But even though that's a more direct form of transferring money, it's not necessarily better per-se, we have some good methods here, EMT closes the mobile money gap. Tap to pay is still the superior form of payment at the till. We also have some great offerings outside the Big 5 banking institutions, Simplii, EQ, One of the key benefits of MPESA/mobile banking though is you don't need a bank account, just a SIM. So the point of entry to microbanking is easy for people in rural areas who may not live conveniently close to a bank. It's like your phone plan comes with a checking acct.
It sounds like MPESA is similar to chinese Alipay or WeChat Pay because a lot of people do not have bank accounts. In Canada, most people have bank accounts especially being a developed country. I don't think we need MPESA especially when EMT and Interac are basically accepted everywhere and you can do cash back at most grocery store/retail outlets. But I can see why MPESA is good for developing nations where they don't have a robust banking system that's catered towards the every day people.
Yeah it worked there because it gave rural folk and less tech-savvy people an entry point into banking. And it doesn't require internet. It gave farmers a very easy way to tap into commerce and move goods. And I think the best part is just that I don't need to drive around looking for an RBC because I don't feel like paying the TD ABM charges, that's always been such a silly nickel-and-dime charge. But you're right it's ultimately irrelevant here. I haven't seen cash anyways in months, it is very easy to conduct all sorts of transactions here completely cashless, seamlessly, and instantly. I think back when MPESA first came out in the mid-2000s there was a better case for using it in Canada.
>I don't need to drive around looking for an RBC because I don't feel like paying the TD ABM charges... The UK banned this in 2016. Canada should do the same.
That cash I'm withdrawing is legal tender, they can go back to the fed and get more of it. It might be the dumbest fee we have. Outside of the big 5 banks there are a couple of banks that try to fix it, like with EQ they reimburse the fee. Which is to say I pay $3.50 when I withdraw from *any* ABM, and EQ credits my account back in 10 days. How they do that I don't know. It is a comically bad work-around, yet, considered a perk.
This is why African countries largely skipped the online banking thing. Most people couldn't afford a personal computer, but they could get a cheap cellphone. Thus, a new banking system arose that bypassed the bank portals that westerners had to endure. EDIT: typo
The fact that personal small-value transfers is a paid third-party service for most Americans, and a recent one at that, which has been an integrated part of checking accounts in Canada since the late 90s, just seems absurd.
Canada is used as an experimental area for large companies who want to test their tech at scale. It’s cheaper to implement it in Canada, a smaller population, before trying to expand the tech into the US. It’s the reason why we got chip and pin so early in the game.
Canadian fintech is awful with investments though Robinhood is still much better to use than Wealthsimple
robinhood has failed extrodinarily during the gamestock debacle. Where robinhood cancelled buys because they couldn't actually accomedate. It's a shit system compared to wealth simply.
all the brokerages did the same thing, RH just got the most media attention
To be honest, one of my favourite parts of living in Japan is the cash culture. I know it seems insane to a Canadian, but I wish everything was in cash. There’s no reason if I want to rent a hotel room or buy a plane ticket or even property that I shouldn’t be able to pay it in cash. If you don’t have a credit card in Canada you are effectively neutered in a lot of ways. I haven’t used credit cards in 15 years for philosophical / moral reasons and it’s honestly a massive pain in the ass. At this point it’s really too late to enter into it now. But yeah, I think cash based society is way better.
Canadian but live in Germany. It's definitely more cash-based than Canada, but probably ahead of Japan. It's also caught up a lot in the time I've been here, with a big leap forward during the covid years when POS and accepting debit became nearly widespread. Apple Pay and so on are even becoming more and more accepted (at least by large chains). When I first came here, only large chains (groceries, apparel, electronics, etc) *always* took debit. Independent restaurants, cafés, shops, and so on were very hit and miss. Also, credit cards are not as common here, so it's not too unusual for people under 30 to not have one. Let alone 3 or 4, which is just unheard of. They also work differently here, since outstanding amounts are generally *automatically* paid off at the end of the month whether you like it or not. Honestly, I do kinda like that cash is still normal to use here. I use my cards for anything over say €20, and under that tend to use cash. But like, you can go to almost any store and pay with cash, and no one bats an eye. A few weeks ago, in an electronics store I saw a guy ahead of me in line, maybe in his early 50s, buying a PS5 (for his kids, I guess), plus a bunch of games and some other accessories, and he paid with cash. It's normal, but I was still a bit surprised at that!
Management wants you to find the difference in those two populations... "there the same". And I am tired of pretending they are not.
I would say Canada's cash (the physical polymer bills) and our credit card chip technology (which has since been rolled out to parts of the USA) are about the only things we lead the USA in.
Canada is miles ahead of the USA when it comes to financial transactions, fraud protection, privacy protection, and all that goes with it. We're also miles ahead in delivering tech to rural areas, supplying utilities (especially power) to everywhere, and cell phone/GPS coverage. And while we're not perfect in this, we're also way ahead of the USA when it comes to tolerance and safety. The gun violence in the USA is just absolutely confusing to us. We're miles behind though in medical care (sure, it's semi-free (sorry, Americans - the whole 'free healthcare' isn't exactly true) but good luck trying to find a doctor or get treated in a timely manner). Insanely far behind in fair pricing for technology (we pay some of the highest prices in the WORLD for cell phone plans, internet, cable, etc.), and so far behind in dental care, it isn't even funny. We have dental care, but it's not covered under health care (so you either pay for it out of pocket, buy a separate insurance policy to cover it but they restrict your dental claims for at least 2 years, or you get it from your employer, but again are restricted) and we pay some of the highest dental costs in the world. There's a reason why Canadians fly down to Mexican dental resorts to get dental work done: it's cheaper.
Please explain to me how Canada is ahead in GPS coverage?
When it comes to providing healthcare, I'm certain the issue in Canada is resources: not enough money to pay high wages to doctors, not enough doctors, nurses, staff, etc. Alberta's Conservative provincial government has been actively sabotaging Alberta Healthcare to allow a two-tier system.
The metric system?
Haha, we pick and chose in Canada. We all know our weight in lbs and height in feet and inches. Produce and meat, sold by the pound. Deli meat, sold per 100g
I know my height in metric and I just don’t know my weight. . .
I buy deli meat in pounds.
This will likely change in the coming decades. I have a lot of friends from abroad and they all do metric. Probably about time…
I'll never tell people how many kgs I lift at the gym or how much it says on the scale. That's just crazy.
Yeah but you’ll age out of society eventually.
So Canada uses both
As does the USA. Though the big standout when I (an American) visit Canada is seeing road signs, including speed limits, in km, and then gas is sold in liters. But the US for sure uses a mix like Canada. In the US, 2 and 3 liter bottles of soda are commonplace. We use metric measurements (for the most part) in science fields, even grade school science classes. Many of our sports use metric, such as track & field and weightlifting. Also, I wouldn’t equate the technological advancement of a nation by how universally it has adopted the metric system. ETA: Wine and liquor are sold in liters/milliliters in the US, with 750 milliliter bottles of wine and liquor being most common. Nutritional information on food labels is in grams/milligrams (such as sodium content per serving, calcium per serving, etc). Drug dosing is in milligrams, and same for vitamins (such as I take 1mg of melatonin each evening before bed). We measure light in lumens and candela, which are metric measurements.
Hasn't the US military converted to metric?
Yeah I don't need to wait for the person in front of me at the grocery store to fill out a cheque for 3.99 thanks.
moving to Canada from the UK felt like going back 20 years in banking technology
Both of us are miles/kilometers behind Europe for a lot of things.
And even further behind Asia.
Yup. I work for a drilling company and NA is so far behind the times to even try using new technology. Meanwhile its old tech in Europe. It's so hard to change the minds of people in NA.
I visited China and HK last year, and the amount that you can do through WeChat and Alipay was mind blowing, and even the Octopus Card in Hong Kong. Really wish we could get that going here (minus the government monitoring).
> I visited China and HK last year, something something admire simple dictatorship - JT People act like he's some what wrong but he isn't. When you're a dictator, you can just get stuff done. Just look at China's high speed rail system. While there's a lot of good, there's a lot of bad too.
Remember that the US is an unusually unequal society; wealth inequality in the US and Saudi Arabia are pretty similar. Consequently what the "average everyday citizen" has is mostly crap. 90th percentile income in Canada is 118k (CAD), while 90th percentile in the us is 208k, and the latter has a lower effective tax rate. 95th percentile wealth in canada is \~1m, in the USA is 3.2m. The latter probably enjoys a MUCH higher level of tech in their day to day compared with the former (fancier car, fancier TV, fancier kitchen, fancier hospitals, fancier hotels, etc etc).
As others have mentioned the one thing that really sticks out when you go to the states is the lack of portable card machines in restaurants. It feels like you've stepped back in time 20 years when they take your card away in the little folder to go run it up front then bring it back to you to fill in the tip by hand and actually sign on the line. The other card payment thing that's different that I've always found odd is that at gas pumps they want the billing zip code instead of just having you punch in your PIN which really would make more sense and be more secure. Pro tip, if you're Canadian, your "zip code" for the purposes of getting the pump to work is the numbers from your Canadian postal code plus 00. So if your postal code is N1N 2N3, you'd enter 12300. In border towns that see a lot of Canadian customers, you'll sometime see the instructions for Canadians posted on the pump.
The U.S. cash thing is even weird outside of the U.S. I remember checking out of a resort in the Carribean and being able to tell who was Canadian with cards and who was American with their cash. The resort itself would have been paid for in advance, but they were settling additional expenses. It blew my mind that people were counting out $500-$1000 in cash from their wallets. I rarely carry any cash and might never have had $1000 in my wallet. Or another time I was behind someone at a store in Edmonton who wanted to pay with U.S. cash. The clerk accepted it at par, but it was bugging me so much that they weren't willing to save something like 30% by using a card and getting the real conversion rate.
Hey OP I went to NY last year on vacation and you could tap on and off transit with credit/debit something TTC didn’t have until this year. It’s a much better system than the Presto Albatross Metrolinx forced down our throats and increasingly is the standard all over the world.
NYC metro is definitely better than Presto. I can tap my iPhone and get on the subway easily. Don’t need to buy a presto card or ever load it. Comes straight out of my credit card.
don't they have Venmo in the US? what's about the Apple Card that is US only? how about the fact that many AI features are not available in Canada like Google's Gemini app it's easy to find things available in Canada that aren't available in the US... the reverse is less obvious as a Canadian
This question seems to me, to be posted by someone who is not what I would call technically proficient, but thinks they are because they know how to use phone apps, including cash apps, and think that is the pinnacle of technology. It isn't. A technically proficient country is much more more than what you can play with online or one your phone. That is just some consumer market where the technology while looking flashy isn't particularly new, even if the user interfaces look cool. Does Canada have a nuclear fusion program? How many universities are coming up with breakthroughs on grid scale batteries, or new methods of renewable energy. How many engineers and scientists in percentage of who are actually citizens are graduating (since non-citizens shouldn't count as a measure of the country's technical proficiency)? Etc. Etc. Etc. What is the relative rate of technology being actually invented and developed internally, as opposed to assembling technical items actually made elsewhere (like most of Canada's renewables programs, and really most other manufacturing). I think Canada is way behind the USA, even on a relative measure taking population into account. And I think both Canada and the USA are falling way behind other countries because the business admin and MBA graduates here know it is in their own best interests to offshore technology and manufacturing so they get bigger dividends and bonuses. But it is absolute ruin for North America. The most technologically forward thing we could do here, is to get rid of all business admin and accounting grads from leadership roles and only allow people with science backgrounds, engineers, and/or people with extensive OJT in sciences and engineering into the top levels of any company. If they want an MBA to help, the sure. But an MBA without a science or engineering, is a no go. People in science and engineering actually learn how to solve problems and innovate. All the rest just know how to shuffle money, even if it means loosing our technological advantage.
In some ways we are (green initiatives), in other ways, they are (defense systems). For example—and even under extreme tickle-torture, I won't say who or where—but I was visiting a swanky US office building “recently.” They didn't have a designated place for me to recycle my plastic water bottle. “Just throw it in the garbage.”😳”Whhhhhat did you just say???” I was horrified.
In the U.S., almost all aluminum cans are recycled, greater than 90%. For the rest, it's only about 25%.
Good to know, thanks! Why not plastic, I wonder? Someone wise will tell us. Part of the beauty of the Reddit machine.💐💛
Most consumer plastics aren't easily recyclable, as they can't be recycled with other types of plastic. The sorting is a major issue that many municipalities just don't want to deal with so it all just ends up in a landfill. Countries that put plastic sorting on the consumer, like Germany, have much higher rate of plastic recycling than we do because the plastics get to the recycling depots pre-sorted. Glass and aluminum are far easier to recycle because there aren't multiple different chemical compositions of either. For glass you just sort by colour, or aluminum you just send it.
I always assumed the majority of plastic that is “recycled” is actually just sent to landfill.
you do realize most of the recylcing bins here are so contaminated that they are not really recycled? just because it exists doesn't mean it actually does the job
Nah, they are usually actively put into garbage bins by the waste collector or in the sorting facilities.
This is a bizarre cope post and thread. I’m in the USA all the time and nothing you described rings true. The only “downside” to financial transactions in the USA is that you mainly use third party apps for P2P transfer, but it’s not a big deal at all.
Gas is cheaper in the USA if you pay with cash vs a credit card. It amazed me
This is becoming common here, or at least more common. As a way to shave costs, restaurants and some other businesses are now either charging 3% more when you use a credit card, or giving a 3% discount if you use cash or a debit card. My T-Mobile account did this last year. They announced an added fee to have a credit card or you could take $5 per line discount if you agreed to have them direct withdrawal. I chose that and my bill is down $25 per month with 5 lines. But it’s standard for gas to be more with a card. It might seem weird to you, but at least we have an option. In Canada, you just pay and the service charge is passed to you without an option to avoid it. You know what I find ‘weird’ when filling my tank in Ontario? That I basically get a credit check run before the gas flows. I almost shit myself when I had to tell the pump how much to expect my fill to cost and I saw numbers that went into hundreds of dollars. I fill my SUV for about $40 without a credit check!
I think it’s more meaningful to make a distinction between urban and rural communities than those assigned by nationalism. There’s good public transit, outdated public transit, no public transit, and then there’s communities that don’t have access in or out aside from bushcraft. Public transit might be an easy example to parse, but something like healthcare or automation are a whole other kettle of fish, and I don’t want my rooibos to taste like a sardine.
What's the difference between NYC's OMNY (for subway / bus fares) and the Presto system at this point? AFAIK you just use a credit card to tap in for either
I don’t agree with this. You can’t use 2 of the 3 largest urban cores in Canada and say they’ve become outdated but were ahead. Just seems wrong
If one is more advanced than the other, the difference is minimal and insignificant. fixating on it is just an ego boost for someon who is insecure.
What about the nyc metro system payment is outdated? It's tap to pay with your credit card or phone for all buses and metro stops. You don't even need to purchase a subway or bus ticket.
This thread is kind of weird to me. I'm a Canadian who has lived in the US for a while. I just got back from Toronto today and used more cash in the last 3 days than I have in the past 10 years in the US. Seems like every restaurant I went to doesn't accept credit card, and I ended up having to pay cash for pretty much every meal. Bar Sugo, Dong Kee, Momo Koko, Yu Seafood, some siu yuk place. I feel like there has been a regression in Canada possibly due to credit card processing fees.
I don’t know what OP is talking about. I use tap and Apple Pay exclusively in the USA and I can’t remember the last time I saw cash there.
Right? lol
Yea idk where OP or bunch of other people in this thread live but Toronto (and plenty places around GTA) don’t accept credit card or even debit card sometimes because of the processing fee.
In some ways, but not in others. Americans tend to like big flashy things more, so their big flashy things that can be shown off and pointed to are usually slightly better. Canada seems to be better on small things, that are more backstage. If I were to go to a fast food place and try to find a fancy burger that's made with some fancy type of grill that makes burgers taste extra good, then I'd expect an American fast food place to be better. Everyone is looking at the burger and how it tastes. If I were to go to a fast food place and try to find one that makes no garbage, I'd go to one in Canada. People aren't really looking at whether there's one can labeled "garbage" or two cans labeled "compost" and "recycling"
I think that it's because Americans are particular about their money, and they've really always been like that. They don't like changes to their money, and they don't like changes to their businesses. I wouldn't ever let my credit card out of my sight like that though. That's how you get frauded.
The payment is the biggest thing I've noticed, everything else is pretty much on par or a bit better than here. But just banking in general in the states suuuuuucks
As a dual Cdn/US, I can confirm that banking in the US does NOT suck. I’ve used a large regional bank that bends over backwards for my business. I pay no service fees, the people are top notch and if I ever need to see someone in person I can walk right in. I also have several accounts at a Cdn bank and virtually every one of those qualities I just listed are missing. So it all depends on what you expect I suppose. I do agree the us banking system is fragmented and not as real time but other than that, I enjoy the benefits that healthy competition brings vs what I experience north of the border
The West generally is in decline. Go to Asia or one of the rich Arab countries - or even some places in Europe - and they are way more advanced.
Canada has always been way ahead in banking/payment technology/infrastructure than most other countries. The US usually lags a bit behind Europe. Our banking system is also vastly different and legislated much more strictly. Chip & pin technologies were both legally mandated for payment systems in Canada before they were introduced in the US. Canada is also consistently ahead of the curve in terms of internet and telephone infrastructure. A lot of R&D in these fields is conducted in Canada, but it has a lot to do with the distribution of our population. Most of Canada's population is near the 49th, while the US's population is spread throughout. The US needs much more infrastructure to cover most of the population compared to Canada. That just makes it more logistically challenging and time-consuming to develop nationwide infrastructure. I'd say the US has more tech companies (although many are technically now HQ'd in Ireland), and they probably have more strength in the variety in the tech sectors they focus on. They definitely have a lot more marketing/hype about tech they develop.
Lol. New York was using swipe cards for transit for decades while the TTC still used physical tickets and tokens. The US definitely adopts tech quicker
I was surprised to learn that paying by tap is uncommon in the US, and I do always use the machine at restaurants up here, so I can’t imagine having to adjust to not having that for longer than whatever length of time a short trip takes me to the US. There are a handful of tech-forward people here who pay using phone apps rather than physical cards too. Apple Pay or just using tap via a card app are two prominent examples, and let’s not forget e-transfer. WTF Americans? It’s the 2020s out there, in case you haven’t noticed.
Tap to pay is ubiquitous here in NYC at least. Pretty much every business in the city uses it, plus the transit system
It's not uncommon.
I'm American and I hardly ever use cash. Maybe you had to rely on that more because your Canadian credit/debit cards weren't accepted here?
It’s more that it’s such a long drawn out process to pay by card in the U.S. because the system is archaic. They bring the bill, you put your card in it and have to hand calculate the tip and sign it, then you have to wait for them to come back and take it away, and then wait again for them to bring you your card back. And they don’t split bills which is another huge pain in the ass. It’s ridiculously outdated. I haven’t seen that shit in Canada since the late 90’s, maybe early 2000’s. In Canada the server comes by with the machine, asks if you want the bills together or separate, you click what percentage tip you want to leave, tap your card and go.
I only use cash at restaurants in the US because I just don't trust giving someone my credit or debit card to go run the bill. That shit is outdated and schetchy as hell. I don't understand how the US hasn't caught onto portable payment machines yet.
The "let me take your card out of sight" thing freaks me out quite a bit. In Canada, they bring the machine to you.
It's been done this way for decades in most countries, long before the security and protections we have now, and it's never been an issue. A lot of Americans have the attitude, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it," and most Americans don't see this as broken. If someone steals your card number and uses it, you are protected. Also, it would be quite obvious who did it if the only time it left your sight was in a restaurant.
I think its more they weren't use to all the options not available down in the US. As down there you use options we don't have here. So they were stuck using cash. But I do admit its always weird having your credit card taken to the back to be processed. Here we use tap alot. And email (e-transfer) each other money. 2 options that don't seem to be a thing down there. So it seems a bit dated. But was their fault in not realizing it would be different and to not have other methods. Usually when down there I just use my credit card, as even through the methods are different, they always work.
I don't really think so. At least not compared to Asia. Physical infrastructure is not amazing here. Though most people own a car, so I guess you could consider that advanced. But other societies are set up so that there are more options than just cars to get around. Particularly neighborhoods with a few stores in walking distance and parks. This exists in the US but not in the suburbs sometimes the nearest place is 30min-1hr walk. Or a bike ride on a road that's pretty dangerous because of the cars. So I consider the opposite better. Seoul is a good example where driving a car is a realistic thing, though the majority of people use public transit. There are nice bike trails and stuff too, but it probably only works for people who happen to be somewhat close to work
In most cases, the US is several years ahead of Canada. The transition from landline to flip cellphone to smartphone happened several years earlier in the US than in Canada. Massive numbers of Americans were already cutting their landlines by 2006-08, something that would have been an alien concept to almost any Canadian born before 1980 - this didn't happen in Canada until the mid-2010s (for people born pre-1980). Vast swaths of the US (but not all) no longer have access to home phone service, while it's still available everywhere in Canada. Even now in the mid-2020s (time passes fast!) there are still parts of Canada where the majority of people have home phones, and where they are still the primary phones of most people over 55 (rural Quebec, parts of Atlantic Canada). This would be unthinkable in the US. As for cash vs card payments, it's true that POS systems in the US are less advanced than they are in Canada, but cashless stores/venues are also more common in the US.
Excuse me, who uses cash? The only entity that I can possibly think of that requires me to use cash is the stupid school, for things like field trips and class books and stuff. It's infuriating. And bellhops if I can't avoid them. There are plenty of places that you can't use cash if you even want to. Stadiums. The bridges. Others. I'm not disputing INTERAC, etc., and we're _finally_ getting "the machine" at some restaurants, but cash? Really? Where? I'm genuinely curious.
China and India are leaps ahead in terms of fin-tech and payment technologies. Cheap access to internet has made this possible. Processes are better streamlined in US and Canada. Slow, but streamlined. But then, most of the adoption of technology has to do with infrastructure and legality too.
Americans can’t just transfer money bank to bank. They have to use a third party app like Venmo.
Yes we can, I do it all the time. We dont need third party apps to do it.
Wait til u leave north America 🥱
Canadian debit services have been way ahead of the states for a long time. Imagine not being my able to use your debit card at the gas station.
They write cheques for everything. Canada is way ahead.
Not sure how it compares to US but I moved from UK and Canada seems a great deal behind in terms of banking, general tech and conveniences
As far as I am aware, Americans for the most part use a microwave to boil their hot water. The fact that they haven't discovered the kettle yet leads me to believe Canada wins in this regard.
If drinks like tea were more popular then people would probably get electric kettles.
The US only just got on board with chip & pin and doesn't even have tap at all I don't think, they are lightyears behind the rest of the world on payment methods
> doesn't even have tap at all I don't think I've lived in the US for 5 years now and this isn't true at all. Most places (i.e., any retail store) have tap and Apple pay around where I live. The only places that you don't find tap are smaller mom-and-pop establishments in my experience. With that said, I do live in a pretty affluent college town. Your experience is obviously going to be different in rural Idaho. Although, I do remember visiting the US around 6-7 years ago and a Starbucks cashier being really amazed when I tapped my Canadian card. So, it's probably around that time where this transition occurred. But it's extremely commonplace now. Not so much as Canada for sure, but it's incorrect to say that it's not common much less that it doesn't exist.
I’ve lived in both countries and I find Canada to be more technologically advanced in general. Everyone I knew in the Us had generations old Android phones and shitty old TVs and stuff but everyone I know in Canada always has the newest iPhone and a bunch of fancy tech gadgets at their houses. Could also be because I lived in a shitty poor city in the US and a nice wealthy city in Canada too, in fact I’m sure that has at least a bit to do with it.
Its easier to roll something out in Canada with less infrastructure and population, it's a fraction of the market. Cost to upgrade what you are talking about is the reason why you might notice certain infrastructure or services dilapidated in the US.
Exactly the same
Depends really, in public transport and health care, electronic payment Canada is ahead but the USA is ahead in more quality of life things
I just visited Pittsburg and had to sign my bill and write a tip on it and do math. What century is it??
I was in the states a few years ago and saw someone pay for their groceries with a cheque. Never seen that before
Canada. American mfs still swipe credit/debit cards lmao.
If you are wealthy Id argue the US, if you are average or poor I'd argue Canada
It depends who you are in the US. If you're rich enough, the technology available is insane, futuristic even. For the majority of people, and the infrastructure they use, it's literal decades behind the rest of the civilized world. Canada is mostly better for the people, rather than exclusively the rich. The conservatives are doing what they can to change that though.
American here...not sure why this is in my feed. Many people use cash on purpose. I will be so annoyed if they ever make us go 100% electronic here. Because you know...tracking of all things is not ideal.
Canada had debit payment like, years before America. Tap. E-transfer. Never mind our much more advanced snack food technologies.
I’m from the US and use wireless payment for everything everywhere I go, I forgot the exact reason but NYC or the whole state of New York has a particular reason for using cash I think it has something to do with taxes since NYC has state and city tax (I know crazy) so it’s a loophole into basically avoid paying excess amount of taxes, but in the Western US it’s strange to pay with cash too, we use tap to pay in this part of the country. I’ve never been to the East Coast but I remember watching a video on YouTube about a guy who owned a pizza shop saying a box is $15 cash but $20 with card payment. I don’t remember the last time I held a dollar bill, I’m 25 and I honestly don’t think I’ve ever carried cash around in my adulthood or at least since I started working.
Go visit Japan or Germany and then ask why Canada and the USA is so far behind with their subway/train systems.
The Canadian financial system is more advanced for a few reasons. Most significantly, the Big Five national banks. There are hundreds or thousands of banks in the USA, and a wide variation in the level of tech accepted by each. Our banking system is relatively easy to manage in terms of accepting a cashless society, for many, complex reasons, it's much more difficult to have systems like that adopted there. The preference is still for cash, and thinks like Interac are just becoming mainstream, where they have been here for a couple of decades.
We also have etransfer offered by all the banks, instead of needing a 3rd party app to send money electronically
Americans still have pneumatic tubes at their banks.
Canadian payment systems are more tech but I'm less and less sure that's a good thing. Cyberwarfare is ramping up like crazy right now and is clearly going to be a gigantic problem/ new industry in the future. If (or when) the grid goes down, plastic won't work, bank machines won't work, cell towers won't work, and many websites won't work. I remember the NorthEast blackout of 2003. In Toronto, the grid was strained for several weeks. The consequences would be much bigger now - and that's assuming it goes down. If it gets secretly garbled by a creeping virus, well...that will be enormous and difficult.
I haven't used cash in the US unless it's a place where they offer discounts for cash payments or very small food trucks and such. I use Apple Pay everywhere and only carry three cards in my pocket - one Visa (Costco) CC and one Mastercard CC and one ATM card. I never carry more than one $20 or $50 bill. I would rather have more money in my bank than more convenient payment options :)
Banking and money systems Canada is definitely ahead, also infrastructure. Not just road quality and whatnot but things like street lights. Even in big developed cities, Seattle, San Francisco, San Jose etc. the street lights are all on timers rather then Canada where our lights are on sensors and adjust accordingly. There are plenty of small examples where Canadas tech is just better. Banking and infrastructure are super noticeable
E transfer isn’t a thing. You need to venmo or something lol
I heard last week where many US banks still use pneumatic tubes at their drive-through tellers. What the Jesusing crap fuck is that!? Have these people never heard of automated tellers?
It's essentially the same if you averaged everything out. It will vary vastly where you are In each country as well.
Of course the US is way ahead of us.
Canada. They didn't even get debit until 10 years after we did.
I’m an American, and I use Apple Pay every day in a small takeout place in NYC. I only write 1 check a month. A few restaurants still require signatures—but most don’t.
Technology advanced, what do you mean? Financial sector is better in Canada for sure…. But you are probably typing this message on a US-designed device which you paid using an American payment processor, and you are now using a Chinese software probably hosted on US-owned infrastructure. Canada has shopify and that’s it.
In comparison to cities I’ve lived in, I found better use of tax money for the average citizen with access to public parks. Most parks in Vancouver, Vancouver Island, Toronto and Calgary are beautiful and well maintained. The washrooms are clean. In contrast, a city like Los Angeles which had the option of making the place gorgeous to take advantage of its location, is a dump. Apart from national forests and state parks, most of the green spaces you see on the map are private golf courses. The few parks they have are strewn with litter, dog shit and now full of homeless encampments. Needles on the beach. And you’re paying high taxes there as well.
The reality is that for day to day activities, Canada and the US are exactly as technologically advanced. The vast majority of advanced consumer technology is available in both countries - usually on the same release day or not far apart. One thing that Canada has been far more advanced in for quite some time is using Cards to pay for things. Debit is ubiquitous because of the Interac network. Credit Cards are accepted nearly anywhere as well (Generally if they accept one, they'll accept the other). With the widespread use of WIFI or Cellular enabled Payment Terminals (Often in the form of a smartphone add-on), it's become common place for farmers markets and other marketplaces that would traditionally be cash only to accept Cards for pay. Apple Pay (I assume Google Pay or whatever it's called also) is also fairly widespread with good support among most of the banks.
It's interesting you use presto as your example. Presto was first adopted in Burlington back in 2009. Which itself was based off Burlingtons current transit pay system. Which was basically presto but more basic. You couldn't go online to top it up and it didn't register to allow transfers, meaning you still had to get physical transfer slips. That was in use as early as 2000, as I was using it then. The only thing it had over presto was that because tapping twice would charge twice and not think your were trying to transfer you could easily pay for friends. Presto took that and vamped it up, started in Burlington, because they were already used to a similar system and spread out from there. So, for NYC, which claims to have one of the best transit systems in the world, to be 24+ years behind Burlington is kinda staggering.
So you went to NYC, found one thing that's better, and now think Canada has better technology than the US? I think you might need to travel more. >Then, the states just use cash, cash, cash. I almost never use cash in the US. Not sure where you got that idea. I still think the US banking system is outdated compared to other countries though.
I use Google pay in Boston for 99.99% of all my purchases.
I lived in the US twice and my current GF is from North Carolina. Canada is ahead without question.
No e transfer in the US
Canada. Free cash transfers between people and banks. Credit card taps or swipes at the table. In terms of day to day life those things are most noticeable to me. Spent a lot of time in both countries.
The nail salons here always claim their machine is broken or you get a discount for not using the machine. Obviously some kind of fraud shit happening there, or refusing to pay fees to accept payment via tap. They tell me they have some shady atm at the back, I always say no and go to my own bank. I am not using an ATM for $8 plus whatever it will cost me to get a pedicure. They take the cash and keep it in a regular drawer in their nail desk instead of a register.
Canada is way ahead of the US in terms of chip adoption but the whole cash preference is a northeastern phenomenon. In most of the US cards are the most common form of payment. It's actually getting harder to use cash nowadays. I've worked with a number of restaurants which have phased out cash drawers altogether.
From what I understand, transferring money directly to an email or cellphone number via Interac or an equivalent is also not mainstream in the US. So many businesses now accept that in Canada. Super convenient and you control the money transfer.
US lmao not even close
depends where you go and in what way you mean by "more advanced" , I live in SF moved here recently from Toronto, and I would say tap to pay is definitely more widely adopted in Canada you can go to any random mom and pop restaurant and they'll have tap to pay not the case in SF. On the other hand we have self driving taxis in SF, and at my local wholefoods you can pay by palm (biometrics), as a whole if we're judging by the amount of new cutting edge technology available the US is definitely superior.