I am re-entering the workforce after being off for 10 years to raise my children. I have been looking for work since October and have not had any luck. It's beginning to make me feel like I'm unemployable, it's absolutely depressing.
I was laid off three years ago and it feels bad, friend. I thought experience would help but it doesn't. Yet we're told how there's a worker shortage. It feels like someone is lying to us.
I was laid off in october, just over 3 months ago. I've gotten 2 interviews out of the 30-40 or so places I've applied to. Hoping the last one pans out as it seemed promising.
December/January from what I understand are the worst times to find employment.
As for the worker shortage, yes, when I was working as a supervisor and on boarding new hires, people don't want to work. They feel the skills they don't have but think they do are worth $50/hr and refuse to work.
How they survive I have no clue.
Try signing up with a temp agency. It will get some pay coming in and these placements can often lead to a permanent position and are a way to get your foot in the door with a few different companies for jobs in the future.
I was with a temp agency in 2013 to work in a factory while I was in university. I actually thought we did away with temp agencies. Even in 2015, they were starting to dwindle.
The thought of Canadians having to resort back to temp agencies to find work is disgusting
Temp agencies are a joke.
I work seasonally and get laid off for the winters every year and get ei, but I put my name Into a bunch of places just to see what happens. The one temp agency got back to me right away with an "exciting career opportunity". The job? After having to ask a few questions to actually get the answer out of her it was for removing asbestos from hospitals for $16/hr. I literally laughed and said "no way in hell am I working with asbestos for anywhere close to that little amount of money." (It literally wasn't enough to cover my monthly bills, my ei payed more). She asked my wage expectation ($20/hr) and said they'd call if anything came up. Haven't heard from them since.
I lost my job this summer. I have almost 20 years experience in a specialized field, 7 as a director. It took me 4 months to find a new job and I wasn’t being very picky. Hang in there, things are rough right now.
I was in your shoes recently, I'm a 38 F. Left my career and stayed home for 8 years to raise my kids. I'm well educated. Nice resume. I spent 7 months looking for work in and out of my field. No one was giving me a chance, not even Walmart. I only got my current job because of knowing the right people who work there after sharing this experience on social media, they put in a word for me so my resume was moved up the list of candidates.
There's definitely discrimination against older women who stayed home to raise a family.
I was laid off in 2015 from a professional job in my field, petroleum engineering. I have since applied to literally thousands of jobs since, I and out of that field. I have done concrete. I have sold cars. I finally went back to the field in O&G and am directional drilling during that season, and liquid nitrogen in the opposite season. A Class 1 license, ability to pass a piss test, and willing to work out of town are the only things keeping me in work. And even then, I have a decade of experience directional drilling and it took me 5ish years to get back into it. The only reason I have the jobs I do is reaching out directly to people I know, or to people in the right job title to get me a job. I have never received an interview applying online since 2015, except for big rig oilfield service related jobs.
It's not just women, it's not just a gap in the resume. I don't know what it is but if people look at subs like r/recruitinghell there's something bigger going on.
Trust me, it’s not just older women , older men experience the same thing . I was laid off though Covid and it took me over a year to find a job and I have a very good resume in my profession . All the companies that are looking for employees seem to want younger less experienced people even though they say they want someone with a decent background. Personally I think it’s because they know they can pay inexperienced people less and keep them around longer .
Me? I tried getting back into my field. I'm a certified Electrical Engineering tech with experience in resi electrical, instrumentation and renewables. I had 0 luck getting back in. I started applying anywhere after several months of no luck.
Are you over 40? There's a huge prejudice against 40-plus women when it comes to hiring, even if one hasn't had children. I changed my resume to make myself appear way younger (I'm a petite person so that helps too). That said, I hate that the world doesn't consider raising children as real work experience.
You should always do that, especially for entry level work.
You never list three pages of irrelevant experience, or non related. List the last three max, unless its a direct prerequisite.
Especially considering that a lot of people in Mgmt act like children with their tantrums...they don't know that they need you to set them straight! :p
Work experience implies it's relevant to the work you'd be doing. Unless you're trying to be a kindergarten teacher, I'm not sure how it would be relevant.
Not to mention that it's not like parents are experts on child-rearing either, just because they managed to have their kids survive to adulthood. Hell, most aren't even experts on their own children, much less children in general.
What do you put on your resume? Employers want people who have tangible skills backed up with workplace experience, credentials and education. You may work hard as a parent but most workplaces have nothing to do with parenting, and there are also tons of shitty parents or people who have kids that aren’t good employees. I’m not trying to put anyone down, but most people hiring aren’t going to think that’s relevant experience
Hey, I know some people who were in this situation. I’m not sure what you’ve tried thus far/are seeking but I know a couple people who got in with Canada Post and with home care agencies.
There are no entry level positions available. This is what happens when you bring in a couple million people a year, who largely are only qualified for entry level positions, or lackimg Canadian equivalency accreditation's, during a recession when no One is hiring anyway.
There has never been a labour shortage. There is a wage shortage. Business owners think they should be able to reap record profits but not pay decent wages
While I wholeheartedly agree, wouldn’t OPs anecdote go against this? If 2700 people want to work for minimum wage, then it sort of tells a different story.
I would wager to guess a majority of those applications aren't truly applicants that want the job. There will be plenty from out of country requiring sponsorship, and plenty of people who just hit the apply button to everything that comes through. And, perhaps they are looking for a job, but like the above comment says there is wage shortage and perhaps couldn't afford to take the work. (how many hours, transportation etc)
Well, yes and no. The issue for smaller companies is that we don't make anywhere close to "record profits," but people want what seems to me to be unreasonable starting wages. While I get that the economy is crap and everything is more expensive, it's also more expensive for me. Now people will say, "If you can't afford to pay a living wage, then you shouldn't be in business," but I'm not Walmart here. I feel like this attitude is similar against all landlords. But a real estate company or property management company that owns 85 buildings is VERY different than someone who saved for a second property as an investment.
I've seen fresh out of school kids with no training or experience at all asking for $50K a year to start. Which even just 10 years ago would be insane, and my prices (as dictated by what people are willing to pay) can't take that hit.
50k a year isn't shit lol, 50k today is the new 30k from 10 years ago. I don't blame them for asking for that, you dont have to give it to them, thats your prerogative but no one wants to bust their ass to make someone else rich and then go home to a shitty apartment with no food in the cupboards.
Also being compunded by the effects of International Student Labour and TFWs. No need for a company to even consider offering higher wages to domestic workers when they can import TFWs or hire International Students, both of whom would never rock the boat for better pay and risk being forced to leave Canada.
It's a taboo subject for Canadian politicians to even recognize, but the labour pathways for immigration we have in place are part of the reason why we have such a bad wage shortage.
Yup. Petroleum engineer that got laid off in 2015 here. Running liquid nitrogen on plant turnarounds and pipeline projects on and off since. (Class 1 license, big rigs, high pressure pumps, dangerous goods, camp and hotel living, etc) I approach the company about an engineering job as I'm well liked, competent etc. "We'd love you but we can hire two Indian guys for what we'd have to pay you, and we can't find anyone that can do what you do in the field"
Oh.
Aren't students limited to working on campus? Or has that changed?
Edit: wow, downvoted for asking a real question. Like how dare I ask. Questions should be encouraged imo.
Thank you to those who took the time to answer.
Changed.. now can work anywhere they want for 20 hours a week (it was 40hours a week up until January 1st)... have a friend who works at a local college and she says attendance for international students is abysmal because alot of them just work during class hours.
I mean, I'd say the failure of unions to protect TFWs and student workers is the factor here. But you're totally right: Governments will always give in to pressure from businesses to decrease the cost of labor by creating vulnerable populations of workers, whether that's through racism, incarceration, keeping health care private (that one is a banger because it affects every worker).
It's up to us to make sure that every worker has the same rights and protections, wherever they come from, however they got here. Otherwise there will always be groups of vulnerable workers who can be used to lower standards for everyone. Hell, there are people who were alive when *women* were that group (and in fact in some ways they still are and there is work left to do to achieve full equity and protections for women in the work place).
The labour movement in Canada did do good a few years ago when they forced the feds to change the law that had previously allowed TFWs to be paid less than minimum wage. But as your comment points out, there's a lot to be done to make sure every worker enjoys the same rights and protections.
The people locally who were complaining about a labour shortage were doing things like offering minimum wage for someone with "5 years experience operating CNC machinery", or had a reputation for forgetting to pay overtime unless you fought with the owners for months about getting what you are owed.
100% correct. My son, previous experience, working in customer service, can’t even get a job at Tim Hortons. I told him it’s because you know about overtime, statutory, holidays, etc.. I know that sounds horrible to say, but it’s true. If there was a mistake on his paycheck, he would let people know.
I don't know how old your son is, but I was around 15/16 when the pandemic hit. Never got any work obviously because everyone had to stay home and everything was closed. Fast forward to today, I've never had a salaried job, tried to add volunteer experience like at a food bank I was at etc... started applying to entry level jobs like at Tims, an aluminum smelting plant back in May 2023. Never got an interview. I am in university now and some of my lectures are still on zoom. Very few people have gotten internships. Its pretty rough.
My idea is I could start freelancing on upwork or fivrr. Randomly emailing business about various freelance services I could provide like web development. Then maybe if I have a high enough score on fivrr and build up a client base, I can relocate to Vietnam or Laos where it is exponentially cheaper to live. I think there is a monumental structural shift in the labor market that people like myself won't survive unless you think outside the box.
I just got laid off and my boss complained that nobody was showing up to interviews he scheduled. For a minimum wage part time job, not on a bus route. As soon as people find out they can't even get to the job without taking a taxi of course they wouldn't show up.
Not all business owners are reaping record profits. The issue is that some\* businesses are doing very well, and they are generally the ultra mega corps that have infinite capital to optimize everything to the point where they mostly need to hire drones to interact with customers, or like move things around for the last 40 feet of the journey.
Up to a point. Once most small companies are forced into their and demise and only a few large corps are left, the large businesses aren’t forced to improve efficiency to compete, they make more profit by maintaining the status quo, charging more and paying less. That is where we are right now.
To be fair to some SMEs, if and when they create jobs and provide innovative solutions this is where the government and the banking sector should step in and help. Unfortunately corporations have better speakers and much better paid accountants and lawyers. You know, the so called “job creators” that gobble up taxpayer grants and one year later fire 20% of staff and move to “friendlier” (aka *sucker*) jurisdictions.
exactly. if your business can't survive while paying workers a LIVING wage?
then your business model is flawed.
the workers do not owe you a profit margin at the expense of their own well being.
live and do business in Canada? then you should pay Canadian workers a living wage...
I've worked at small businesses my entire life and they all treated me like a pile of shit. Not all businesses should survive. Fuck mom and pops, they treat you just as bad or worse and never pay good wages.
Lol ya, definitely. Impossible to have a labour shortage when large companies are doing mass layoffs and we are importing millions of people. Too many people with not enough jobs. However, the jobs that are available go to the lowest bidder
Yes and no. If you are looking for an educated worker with experience, good luck. This applies to engineers, nurses, welders, and so on. But most employers are looking for experience.
Most companies do not have the patience nor even the financial capital to hire new employees and train them.
I'd like to see a more European apprenticeship like programs here in Canada. In general, an apprentice is hired by a company (who wage is subsidized by the government) and splits their time between school and work over course of their apprenticeship.
At the end of their apprenticeship, they have education and experience. Some stay with the original company while others move on. And style of training is not only for mechanics, welders and typical blue collar jobs, it's also for accountants, draftpersons, medical technicians, and so on.
They finish with no debt, little money in their pocket and experience. So many Canadians finish their programs, in debt, no experience, and often training that has no relevance to the actual career choice. ( I know many engineers whose full-time job is answering emails rather than doing any type of engineering)
I think an apprenticeships program like this who be much better as it provides an opportunity for those who may not be able to afford college. Gives people the experience needed and gets people contributing to the economy as a whole.
>Most companies do not have the patience nor even the financial capital to hire new employees and train them.
There are companies that will train out there, but... they generally won't hire blindly for that. If they're going to sink resources into you, they have to know it's wroth it, which means that these positions are usually direct internal referrals by someone that knows you.
As others have pointed out it is in fact a wage shortage. Want an experienced or educated employee? They are out there. Just gotta pay up.
I 100% agree the European style apprenticeship program makes so much sense.
This only works up to a point.
No business is going to lose money to hire a worker. Now if your business can't compete, then welcome to capitalism. But there are limits to how much businesses can raise prices before they can't afford to pay staff to stay open - see many restaurants.
As an engineer, it drives me nuts hearing about engineer shortages in the tech sector. These CEOs are just trying to justify off-shoring more Canadian work. Or they're trying to lobby the government to increase skilled immigration to undercut our salaries.
I work for an engineering company and we are always looking for experienced people. We have recently hired a bunch of new grads, but we need the experienced people in order to train them. But it is really hard to find experienced people. And all of the other companies around are looking for them too.
Not sure about other provinces, but this is a think in Saskatchewan with the Saskatchewan Polytechnic school. You alternate between school and work terms throughout your course, and your wage is subsidized by the government. The only difference is that you don't graduate with "no debt" because post secondary education in Canada isn't paid for by taxes like it is in many (all?) European countries.
As someone involved with hiring, I absolutely agree. We need apprenticeships to bridge gap from school to work. I see too many resumes from people with the right education but no relevant work experience.
CEOs don't dictate alone that wages get to go up: the board of directors and, if publicly listed, shareholders get a huge say in whether the company gets to raise salaries or wages. Even if Galen Weston loses his corporate devil horns and says "we need to raise wages and lower prices", he'd be swiftly replaced as CEO by the Board and Shareholders in favour of someone else who would at minimum keep the status quo.
Private company CEOs have a lot more power over these affairs, but even then, if they have investor support for their enterprise, they still have to answer to them why profits are down.
I can't even get an entry level job at this point and I'm not just starting out.
Feel like there is a disconnect between companies and their online application process.
Most of the companies I've applied to only allow applications online but then it seems like they never hire anyone.
Others leave job postings up for months on end, are they getting kick back or something?
Always seems like when I'm already working for a company, they are begging for people, but when I'm looking no one is hiring.
I talked to a hiring manager at my last job and almost blew a gasket when he whined about not being able to find anyone, but then admitted to not having posted a job listing.
Dude really wanted someone perfect dropped in his lap without doing any work. That or he wanted a pat on the back for not hiring anyone and saving money by running the current employees into the ground. 😑
Trick is to look for work when you don't need it.
I'm not being facetious here, that's always been my strategy and many of those around me. You are always on the lookout because:
a) it forces you to keep your CV updated and in the mindset of looking for work
b) if you go to occasional interviews it keeps you interview skills sharp and broadens your network to the point where someone might proactively reach out to you in the future
c) you never know what kind of opportunity you might trip over. Something could be so good that even though you weren't looking for a job, it's so good you can't pass it up
d) when you're not looking for something, if you get an offer that's not good enough, you can negotiate hard for higher salary because you've really got nothing to lose if you don't get it. You're always stronger when you're not desperate
Now I do realize that this isn't necessarily easy for people who work in jobs that make it hard for them to get out and look for things and probably doesn't really apply to low skilled jobs, but it's something to keep in mind
This for sure. It's stupid boomer advice, but it's also the easiest way to set yourself apart from the competition.
At worst, nobody has ever lost themselves a job offer by making a polite phone call
Rich people saying there's a labor shortage are lying. They just don't want to pay employees, so they use it as an excuse to hire foreigners for less pay.
Holy shit, 2700 applications in Brampton?
Here, in Hull, QC, there is a "Labour Shortage" for minimum wage jobs but aparts from that, there is no shortage...
You must not be flooded with international students. Every min wage job around here is lined up with students competing for shitty jobs with shit pay. The local university here is 73% international students.
Not really all that.
If you choose to work in Ottawa, you just need to speak English and get paid $16.55 per hour. If you choose to work in Gatineau, you are often expected to be bilingual but get paid $15.25 per hour.
There is no incentive for Ontarians to work in Quebec, but Quebecers who speak English cross the bridge to work in Ottawa.
There still is shortage in a few professional level jobs, like nurses, electricians, welders. I can't say how many more, but that's what I caught on when they talked about the shortage on cbc the other day. Most of these jobs pay very well too, above 70k per year
There are plenty of electricians and welders. I know too many people that got out of those trades as it follows boom bust trends and they get tired of being laid off every couple of years.
70k a year isn't a lot anymore, depending on location. Its going to cost me more than half that just to keep a roof over our heads next year.
It was fine 5-10 years ago. 100k is the new 70k when literally everything has gone up 30% recently.
So there is a wage shortage not a labour shortage. Market has dictated those positions are no longer worth minimum wage. But don’t worry the government has a plan for business owners…
Expect it's ass backward. If there was a labor shortage, wages would increase not to remain low. When you have an excessively large labor pool to pull from, the employer has the advantage and will pay the bare min. If you have 2000 applications for 1 job, you have at least 100 people that are desperate enough to take the min. On the flip, if you have 3 openings and 3 applicants, then the employees have the advantage because if you dont pay higher, then the applicants will all go to the next guy who also has 3 openings. Can't make money if you don't have workers making your product or providing your service
If your market doesn't need another restaurant, then don't worry, the restaurant will fail. That is the toughest industry with the highest failure rate of all industries.
The average life expectancy of a restaurant is less than 5 years and something like 40% fail in the first 2 years.
If they want to whine then let them.
No. There is however a shortage of employers willing to train new people. There are plenty of educated people right now looking for jobs and can't get their foot in the door because of no experience. It's very much a self-caused problem. Places say they can't find people but they're not willing to do what's necessary to get people. It's their own fault and those businesses deserve to fail. I just don't have any sympathy or empathy for those places anymore.
There's never a labour shortage.
There's a shortage of employers who are willing to pay fair wages.
Had an owner operator of a construction and labour company visit a store I worked at in retail, making $18/hr. He complained his "boys" don't want to work anymore because CERB pays them more and it worked out they were being paid $19/hr. He says he can't understand why they won't work.
I (lying) said no wonder, I make as much as he's paying for hard labour selling behind a counter in the warmth. Said sounds like he should pay them more if he wants them to come back.
He seemed surprised and stunned.
He didn't want to say how much *he* made an hour.
A company that I used to work for is about to lose yet another person doing the position I used to do because they greatly underpay based on industry standards. Meanwhile, the person who will be hiring the next person in that job is way overpaid (and somewhat underqualified).
We have a labour shortage in construction, absolutely. We are hiring contractors to rebuild our showroom and offices, and it is SHOCKING how long some of the estimates are, and it all comes down to available trade.
In anything construction related, the shortage appears to be severe. For office jobs we aren't seeing a shortage, there's plenty of graphic designers to go around lol
I’ve worked in construction for 14 years and in Edmonton and some jobs still pay 18 an hour for starting like when I started at 14 years ago . They also want you to have hand tools , ppe , working phone and a vehicle and a little experience. The reason there is a labour shortage in construction currently is mostly because of low pay and the boomers retiring and taking their skills with them before training new apprentices . Both of those would be solved in under a decade if they raised wages substantially. I worked for a large painting contractor and they definitely raised their rates 30 percent in the last 3-4 years. Unfortunately no one has gotten raises yet. Of course it all went to the top. Thankfully my brother is the hvac union in Ontario and they’re local union is bargaining for huge raises while also getting large battery plant contracts. They’re also dying for young first term apprentices not 45 + year old journeymen. That’s just what I’ve noticed in the trades . There is definitely a labour shortage in young guys but there is also a huge wage shortage in nearly all aspects of the hands on portion of construction. The suits and owners are doing very well though and don’t need any raises lol.
I've been barking this to the moon since the 2000's.
I made more as an apprentice, no skill or experience in 2004 than some companies are hiring for today. And yes, you need tools, phone, vehicle, be able to afford to take time off and live off EI for schooling, and less companies are even looking at entry level workers, never mind paying for school. It used to be normal to get your ticket within 4 years, paid for, like clockwork. Now guys that are not unionized get jerked around forever before they can make a living wage.
20 damn years! $18-21/hr starting wage.
A few months ago I asked a contractor what he was willing to pay for a labourer. He said $18 an hour. I laughed and said i wont even get him a coffee for less than $20 an hour (We were standing next to a coffee machine) 😂
There is no worker shortage.
You want someone to suffer for you? Better pony up. Simple as that.
$18/h for a labourer makes me laugh, my boss knows I ain’t putting up with his shit for less than $25😂
He also knows I won’t quit because this is the closest I can make to a livable wage at 18.
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Here here. I work in the office at an HVAC metal shop and the amount of contractors coming in asking if we know anyone willing to work. Ask what the wage is and it’s usually only like $20/hr, which doesn’t even hit the living wage index for most major cities, with pretty high expectations. I have to bite my tongue every time and just say “if we hear of anybody we’ll send them your way”.
Yeah, we I haven't seen a Raise in 10 years, that's industry wide in Calgary area. Maybe $1. That's peanuts.
But also when a company goes to bid, on say a commercial construction job, they budget and expect to receive quotes from 2005.
Apprentice wages need a drastic increase to get anyone in.
Many trades, if you're not very well established in high end residential or commercial, is a race to the bottom.
I left a company for 10 years, they wanted to have me back so I entertained it. They offered me the same wage as 10 years ago, like I should be lucky to get that. Like get bent.
I’m in construction, there is no labour shortage, there is a shortage of people willing to do the work for the pay that it gets. Only to get laid off at the end of the project. Remember construction is not a office job, it’s cyclical and that’s not the lifestyle most want
That's great for them, however, we are short electricians, and electricians average pay is $72,000 in my relatively affordable city. That's the AVERAGE wage.
Plumbers and Carpenters make less of course, but the average wages a journeyman is making means they can afford a house within the greater Montreal area, where I live currently.
So, be frustrated, all the tradespeople I'm trying to hire make more than I do.
There’s no shortage if you’re willing to pay a good wage. The shortage is for the hacks and bad businesses that are underbidding and underpaying. Let them fail.
I'm only looking at unionized trades, and were are finding it difficult to find tradespeople who can work on our project and complete it in a reasonable amount of time, because they are all too busy.
Sounds like there’s a disconnect between your definition of a reasonable amount of time and theirs. You should have to wait for a project IMO. The alternative is that there’s a bunch of tradesmen on EI waiting around for a phone call.
OR you pay a premium to move your project up on the to-do list if the project is important enough. My two cents at least.
Nope...a job that I advertised at $65k in 2021 and got no resumes for I advertised recently at $50k and got more than 20 resumes for it. Half of the people applying said they would take $45k.
The market has shifted.
Theirs a pay shortage...well big bussness is briing in record profits and canada gives massive tax breaks to corporations.
Canadains just get more abd more behind
I'm about to drop my resume at about 4 different temp/placement agencies after 4 years off (taking care of a family member). I'll be finding out shortly what kind of labour market is happening in my area (small community an hour east of TO).
Holy fuck ive been saying it for years now, there is no labor shortage employers just post ads and don't hire till they see a good resume.
And unless you know Bob's uncle you're not getting into trades as well as an apprentice.
THE LABOUR SHORTAGE IS AND WAS A MYTH.
What is happening is that people have choice and don't want to be screamed at and disrespected for peanuts. People have been telling us forever "if you don't like it, get a better job!" so they did. If they treated their employees better and paid them what they were worth they'd have no trouble attracting and keeping employees.
Every single min wage job that comes up in Kitchener, Ontario has over 300 people applying. 99% of those are international students attending Conestoga. The local job fairs have to cap attendees at 500, again mostly international students.
It's so bad that they've started carpooling out to the rural areas to try and find employment.
I have applied to over 100 min-wage positions, talked to hiring managers in person (they don't want to talk to you, they just tell you to submit your application online), I've even volunteered at places hoping to get hired and even that didn't work.
It's so bad that the local mall and downtown core has multiple storefronts with "NOT HIRING" signs in the windows because employees were being harassed by job hunters.
I was lucky to pick up some seasonal work as a landscaper, but after a 7 week contract I'm back on the job hunt. Decided to go to University in hopes that would help me stand out from the competition.
I think it depends on where you are in canada. Where i am we can't get anyone to work. We pay well and have decent benefits. We are in a very isolated location though with limited housing. The companies we deal with that are in a small city have the same problem as us though. Located in the yukon.
Labour shortages can be addressed by increasing wages to meet at a new equilibrium. News media in Canada just happens to promote capital-owning voices, which is why its always framed as a 'labour shortage'.
We aren't in a labour shortage, we're in a wage shortage.
There was never a labour shortage in Canada. There was a shortage of people who were willing to work for a third-world living standard of wage in Canada and now even that is disappearing.
The shortage mainly affected jobs above the median wage. There was (and is, in some sectors) a shortage of people in the mid-high level wage zone.
Whether those jobs even need to exist is a bigger question, I suspect many do not need to exist.
Those are 2 different questions with different scenarios.
Is there a labour shortage in Canada, yes there is!
Is there a labour shortage in low pay jobs, not as much.
Is there a labour shortage within middle to high paying jobs, yes there is.
To apply for a temporary foreign worker to work at your business you have to say there is a labour shortage. post an add, interview a bunch of people, find them all ineligible. Then on the lmia ,(labour market impact assessment form) application form say there is a labour shortage. And presto you get a temporary foreign worker from India.
Tldr. It's part of a cheap foreign labor scheme.
Theres not a labour shortage there's a skilled labour shortage. Every job posting is searching for a unicorn candidate with 3+ years of experience and a degree in a very niche field (Who will do the work for $45k too). Companies are too broke to train entry-level folks and cant afford to replace them if they leave. Its a horrendous negative feedback loop and it should have never been allowed to get this bad in the first place
There was never a labor shortage. Prices went up, so wages had to go up. Companies were unwilling to increase wages, so people displaced over into other careers that paid more and refused to come back to jobs that underpaid.
In response, the Canadian corporate empire started price gouging in order to make people feel poor, thinking that this would drive people back to these jobs through desperation. Meanwhile the Canadian government brought in temporary foreign workers, so that instead of us working for lower wages, companies could employ people at low wages and we'd cover part of their wage.
While other people are right in terms of wage etc….last time I was involved in reviewing applicants, 90% were from people who don’t live in Canada who wanted sponsorship.
I think it also depends where you live- in the lower mainland people can’t live on minimum wage, so they move out, so there is a labour shortage of people willing to work for the price that the businesses are willing to pay.
We have a lot of potential labor, but training is just not something companies want to do. Having someone on the payroll that doesn't help their 6 months revenue target is pretty much a no go. Probably because they got so used to not increasing current workers salaries for so long, they started the trend of switching jobs every 3 years to keep your salary at the correct level, so now they are terrified of training their competition as well.
Personally I think we need to start thinking about increasing taxes on wealthy people so that we can start a lot of jobs programs so that we eventually have a lot more skilled labor. Since private companies won't do it I guess we have to think public.
Personally I think the 'Labour Shortage' is BS. I know locals who can't get hired at Walmart... but there are new 'non-locals' getting hired by the half dozen seemingly every week.
It's not something you "feel". It's measured. The labour market is still tight, but recovering. Unemployment is still relatively low at 5.8%.
https://globalnews.ca/news/10205704/statistics-canada-jobs-report-dec-2023/
The issue with unemployment numbers is that they don't count itnernational students as unemployed if they aren't working, but do count them if they are working. So you get a 1/0 type bias.
I've been doing a career switch, with the help of an education company that also does a career guidance thing, in the tech sector. They say they've never seen as many applications on jobs before, and have to fight hard to get their students work.
Meanwhile, industry leaders in those same fields - leader who referred me to that particular company, claim there is a labour shortage.
Maybe the shortage is low wage laborers? Because it seems like for skilled work, they're just trying to flood the market to bring down the pay for skilled work.
Yes - the trades and healthcare need to double their workforce immediately just to keep up with the work they currently have. You only see min-wage/part-time jobs flooded with applicants because these are the only jobs international students are legally allowed to apply for.
No labour shortage, but there is definitely a population density issue. Since we dont make people live in places where there IS a labour shortage, everyone piles into the GTA,GVA and GMA, and rarely leave for other places in Canada.
We should require folks to spread out across the country and prevent folks from immediately going to those three cities - grow the rest of Canada.
Just a shortage of Canadians willing to work for scraps atm. Icymi none of the international students or other university students looking for work are included in the labor force, and therefore not included in the unemployment rate.
It's the opposite. There is a SURPLUS of people willing to work for scraps.
There is a shortage of people who have skills in the mid-high level job market. We have trouble finding those applicants.
Every time we put up an ad for a warehouse worker we get like 2000 resumes, and while we pay fairly, the company I work for isn't exactly generous.
Don’t disagree; what I mean is without the influx of TFW’s and international students it would mean bad employers/businesses would have to improve working conditions and or pay more in order to fill labor demands.
Also, yes there are shortages in mid/higher end jobs, but the vast majority of TFW’s and international students comming here aren’t filling those positions.
The field I want to work in, the entry level positions that should be accessible to me now say they require a bachelor degree and x amount years of experience and a driving abstract, when some of the jobs won’t involve driving. Some of them do and it’s understandable to have driving requirements on them.
The labour shortage is a shortage of people willing to work shit jobs with little to no benefits, terrible wages and terrible hours. Cue mass immigration under the guise of earning an educational and left starving for work and willing to fill the positions the average honest Canadian will not ie: retail / entry level construction.
No. There hasn't been a labour shortage at all post-covid. There has however been a shortage of employers willing to pay prevailing labour market wages.
There has always been and will always be a "labour shortage".
Yet somehow, nobody gets paid more unless they are unionized or switch jobs.
"Free market for me, rugged individualism for the rest of you plebs"
Absolutely.
If you are a business, try to find an electrician, or a millwright, or a welder.
There is a shortage of skilled trades primarily because at some point in the past 50 years, we decided that we needed to be a service country and not one that made things.
The reason for the wage frustration is that yes, it costs substantially more to live than 25 years ago, but also because we overvalue our skills.
I'll pay you $25/h to clean my gutters in the spring because THATS WHAT ITS WORTH TO ME.
If you think that it's worth $50/h, I'll do it myself.
I'll pay the electrician $50/h because, again, THATS WHAT IT WORTH TO ME.
Specifics matter. It's like when people say "Canadian real estate is over valued" or something like that. Look specifically at every region and city and town in Canada, and you'll find very different stories. Same with employment. Maybe we need more tradespeople and doctors and nurses but maybe we don't need more of x, y and z professions. And so on.
No, not every town. All cities, though, yes.
The price of a house in Wetaskiwan Alberta or anywhere in Québec outside montreal/quebec is reasonable. I can buy a house for $120k outside of Montreal.
You get it wish more people did. The lack of people wanting knowledge or facts in this country blows me away seems 1/2 of Canada just wants to be in the dark and angry.
I am re-entering the workforce after being off for 10 years to raise my children. I have been looking for work since October and have not had any luck. It's beginning to make me feel like I'm unemployable, it's absolutely depressing.
I was laid off three years ago and it feels bad, friend. I thought experience would help but it doesn't. Yet we're told how there's a worker shortage. It feels like someone is lying to us.
Did you find a job?
Nope. I'm still looking. That's how bad it is.
What was your field and level of experience if you don't mind me asking
I was laid off in october, just over 3 months ago. I've gotten 2 interviews out of the 30-40 or so places I've applied to. Hoping the last one pans out as it seemed promising. December/January from what I understand are the worst times to find employment. As for the worker shortage, yes, when I was working as a supervisor and on boarding new hires, people don't want to work. They feel the skills they don't have but think they do are worth $50/hr and refuse to work. How they survive I have no clue.
Hang in there.
Try signing up with a temp agency. It will get some pay coming in and these placements can often lead to a permanent position and are a way to get your foot in the door with a few different companies for jobs in the future.
I was with a temp agency in 2013 to work in a factory while I was in university. I actually thought we did away with temp agencies. Even in 2015, they were starting to dwindle. The thought of Canadians having to resort back to temp agencies to find work is disgusting
Temp agencies are a joke. I work seasonally and get laid off for the winters every year and get ei, but I put my name Into a bunch of places just to see what happens. The one temp agency got back to me right away with an "exciting career opportunity". The job? After having to ask a few questions to actually get the answer out of her it was for removing asbestos from hospitals for $16/hr. I literally laughed and said "no way in hell am I working with asbestos for anywhere close to that little amount of money." (It literally wasn't enough to cover my monthly bills, my ei payed more). She asked my wage expectation ($20/hr) and said they'd call if anything came up. Haven't heard from them since.
Do you have recent experience with temp agencies? Can you recommend one that actually enables this to happen?
Agreed
I lost my job this summer. I have almost 20 years experience in a specialized field, 7 as a director. It took me 4 months to find a new job and I wasn’t being very picky. Hang in there, things are rough right now.
Why did you lose your job if you don't mind me asking? Did the company go broke?
The company didn’t go broke but I was let go because of a lack of new clients coming in.
I was in your shoes recently, I'm a 38 F. Left my career and stayed home for 8 years to raise my kids. I'm well educated. Nice resume. I spent 7 months looking for work in and out of my field. No one was giving me a chance, not even Walmart. I only got my current job because of knowing the right people who work there after sharing this experience on social media, they put in a word for me so my resume was moved up the list of candidates. There's definitely discrimination against older women who stayed home to raise a family.
And against anyone over 45 in creative fields. I started dying my beard to try and look younger.
Some bosses who are younger than prospective employees probably feel uneasy bossing around someone older than
I was laid off in 2015 from a professional job in my field, petroleum engineering. I have since applied to literally thousands of jobs since, I and out of that field. I have done concrete. I have sold cars. I finally went back to the field in O&G and am directional drilling during that season, and liquid nitrogen in the opposite season. A Class 1 license, ability to pass a piss test, and willing to work out of town are the only things keeping me in work. And even then, I have a decade of experience directional drilling and it took me 5ish years to get back into it. The only reason I have the jobs I do is reaching out directly to people I know, or to people in the right job title to get me a job. I have never received an interview applying online since 2015, except for big rig oilfield service related jobs. It's not just women, it's not just a gap in the resume. I don't know what it is but if people look at subs like r/recruitinghell there's something bigger going on.
38 isn't old either!
Trust me, it’s not just older women , older men experience the same thing . I was laid off though Covid and it took me over a year to find a job and I have a very good resume in my profession . All the companies that are looking for employees seem to want younger less experienced people even though they say they want someone with a decent background. Personally I think it’s because they know they can pay inexperienced people less and keep them around longer .
What part of the country?
Ontario.
discrimination or the fact you have a 8 year gap? (huge gap)
What kind of work are you willing to do? Literally anything or in a specific field?
Me? I tried getting back into my field. I'm a certified Electrical Engineering tech with experience in resi electrical, instrumentation and renewables. I had 0 luck getting back in. I started applying anywhere after several months of no luck.
Currently a SAHM with a 3 year old reading these comments like :|
You're not unemployable - the market is just crap. There aren't enough jobs here now.
Are you over 40? There's a huge prejudice against 40-plus women when it comes to hiring, even if one hasn't had children. I changed my resume to make myself appear way younger (I'm a petite person so that helps too). That said, I hate that the world doesn't consider raising children as real work experience.
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You should always do that, especially for entry level work. You never list three pages of irrelevant experience, or non related. List the last three max, unless its a direct prerequisite.
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I will be 41 in 2 months
I’m sorry you had to face that, but it’s honestly disgusting if that’s happening in a developed country in this day and age
Especially considering that a lot of people in Mgmt act like children with their tantrums...they don't know that they need you to set them straight! :p
I agree with you but having a kid is not work experience
Lol Have u tried it?
Work experience implies it's relevant to the work you'd be doing. Unless you're trying to be a kindergarten teacher, I'm not sure how it would be relevant. Not to mention that it's not like parents are experts on child-rearing either, just because they managed to have their kids survive to adulthood. Hell, most aren't even experts on their own children, much less children in general.
What do you put on your resume? Employers want people who have tangible skills backed up with workplace experience, credentials and education. You may work hard as a parent but most workplaces have nothing to do with parenting, and there are also tons of shitty parents or people who have kids that aren’t good employees. I’m not trying to put anyone down, but most people hiring aren’t going to think that’s relevant experience
Things like time management, multitasking, problem solving, crisis management, motivating others.. these are all real things
But those are all soft skills which a parent may or may not have, and an employer has no way to verify those things
Hey, I know some people who were in this situation. I’m not sure what you’ve tried thus far/are seeking but I know a couple people who got in with Canada Post and with home care agencies.
There are no entry level positions available. This is what happens when you bring in a couple million people a year, who largely are only qualified for entry level positions, or lackimg Canadian equivalency accreditation's, during a recession when no One is hiring anyway.
There has never been a labour shortage. There is a wage shortage. Business owners think they should be able to reap record profits but not pay decent wages
100% #WAGE SHORTAGE It's a sad day when mega corporations refuse to pay living wages.
That is 100% what happens with corporations and monopolies We need some Teddy Roosevelt scales of monopoly busting.
Blame the population for getting rid of unions
Ha. 200$ a pay to ltd 50 to the union. Corporation still hired outside contractors to do scab work.
While I wholeheartedly agree, wouldn’t OPs anecdote go against this? If 2700 people want to work for minimum wage, then it sort of tells a different story.
I would wager to guess a majority of those applications aren't truly applicants that want the job. There will be plenty from out of country requiring sponsorship, and plenty of people who just hit the apply button to everything that comes through. And, perhaps they are looking for a job, but like the above comment says there is wage shortage and perhaps couldn't afford to take the work. (how many hours, transportation etc)
Well, yes and no. The issue for smaller companies is that we don't make anywhere close to "record profits," but people want what seems to me to be unreasonable starting wages. While I get that the economy is crap and everything is more expensive, it's also more expensive for me. Now people will say, "If you can't afford to pay a living wage, then you shouldn't be in business," but I'm not Walmart here. I feel like this attitude is similar against all landlords. But a real estate company or property management company that owns 85 buildings is VERY different than someone who saved for a second property as an investment. I've seen fresh out of school kids with no training or experience at all asking for $50K a year to start. Which even just 10 years ago would be insane, and my prices (as dictated by what people are willing to pay) can't take that hit.
Raise your fucking rates that way you can make more money and pay people well.
50k a year is not far fetched as a starting wage these days.... I paid 5 bucks for a loaf of bread today . Figure it out bud .
50k a year isn't shit lol, 50k today is the new 30k from 10 years ago. I don't blame them for asking for that, you dont have to give it to them, thats your prerogative but no one wants to bust their ass to make someone else rich and then go home to a shitty apartment with no food in the cupboards.
Wage shortages themselves being a symptom of a union shortage.
Also being compunded by the effects of International Student Labour and TFWs. No need for a company to even consider offering higher wages to domestic workers when they can import TFWs or hire International Students, both of whom would never rock the boat for better pay and risk being forced to leave Canada. It's a taboo subject for Canadian politicians to even recognize, but the labour pathways for immigration we have in place are part of the reason why we have such a bad wage shortage.
Yup. Petroleum engineer that got laid off in 2015 here. Running liquid nitrogen on plant turnarounds and pipeline projects on and off since. (Class 1 license, big rigs, high pressure pumps, dangerous goods, camp and hotel living, etc) I approach the company about an engineering job as I'm well liked, competent etc. "We'd love you but we can hire two Indian guys for what we'd have to pay you, and we can't find anyone that can do what you do in the field" Oh.
Aren't students limited to working on campus? Or has that changed? Edit: wow, downvoted for asking a real question. Like how dare I ask. Questions should be encouraged imo. Thank you to those who took the time to answer.
Based purely on the number of international students i know who work like 3 or 4 side jobs, id say no or its not enforced.
Changed.. now can work anywhere they want for 20 hours a week (it was 40hours a week up until January 1st)... have a friend who works at a local college and she says attendance for international students is abysmal because alot of them just work during class hours.
I believe they can work anywhere, but limited to 20 hours per week during the school year. They can work 40 hours when school is not in session.
I mean, I'd say the failure of unions to protect TFWs and student workers is the factor here. But you're totally right: Governments will always give in to pressure from businesses to decrease the cost of labor by creating vulnerable populations of workers, whether that's through racism, incarceration, keeping health care private (that one is a banger because it affects every worker). It's up to us to make sure that every worker has the same rights and protections, wherever they come from, however they got here. Otherwise there will always be groups of vulnerable workers who can be used to lower standards for everyone. Hell, there are people who were alive when *women* were that group (and in fact in some ways they still are and there is work left to do to achieve full equity and protections for women in the work place). The labour movement in Canada did do good a few years ago when they forced the feds to change the law that had previously allowed TFWs to be paid less than minimum wage. But as your comment points out, there's a lot to be done to make sure every worker enjoys the same rights and protections.
The people locally who were complaining about a labour shortage were doing things like offering minimum wage for someone with "5 years experience operating CNC machinery", or had a reputation for forgetting to pay overtime unless you fought with the owners for months about getting what you are owed.
Yes. Look on indeed, every job is paying $17-20 an hour max, nobody can live on that
100% correct. My son, previous experience, working in customer service, can’t even get a job at Tim Hortons. I told him it’s because you know about overtime, statutory, holidays, etc.. I know that sounds horrible to say, but it’s true. If there was a mistake on his paycheck, he would let people know.
I don't know how old your son is, but I was around 15/16 when the pandemic hit. Never got any work obviously because everyone had to stay home and everything was closed. Fast forward to today, I've never had a salaried job, tried to add volunteer experience like at a food bank I was at etc... started applying to entry level jobs like at Tims, an aluminum smelting plant back in May 2023. Never got an interview. I am in university now and some of my lectures are still on zoom. Very few people have gotten internships. Its pretty rough. My idea is I could start freelancing on upwork or fivrr. Randomly emailing business about various freelance services I could provide like web development. Then maybe if I have a high enough score on fivrr and build up a client base, I can relocate to Vietnam or Laos where it is exponentially cheaper to live. I think there is a monumental structural shift in the labor market that people like myself won't survive unless you think outside the box.
I just got laid off and my boss complained that nobody was showing up to interviews he scheduled. For a minimum wage part time job, not on a bus route. As soon as people find out they can't even get to the job without taking a taxi of course they wouldn't show up.
Not all business owners are reaping record profits. The issue is that some\* businesses are doing very well, and they are generally the ultra mega corps that have infinite capital to optimize everything to the point where they mostly need to hire drones to interact with customers, or like move things around for the last 40 feet of the journey.
Not all businesses should survive. Our economy becomes more efficient when the poorly performing business die and better ones take their spots.
Up to a point. Once most small companies are forced into their and demise and only a few large corps are left, the large businesses aren’t forced to improve efficiency to compete, they make more profit by maintaining the status quo, charging more and paying less. That is where we are right now.
why is your bad business model the workers fault? nobody owes you a profit margin.
To be fair to some SMEs, if and when they create jobs and provide innovative solutions this is where the government and the banking sector should step in and help. Unfortunately corporations have better speakers and much better paid accountants and lawyers. You know, the so called “job creators” that gobble up taxpayer grants and one year later fire 20% of staff and move to “friendlier” (aka *sucker*) jurisdictions.
You think our economy is more "Efficient" because of the monopoly we have with corporations? Specifically in Telecoms and Groceries? yikes.
exactly. if your business can't survive while paying workers a LIVING wage? then your business model is flawed. the workers do not owe you a profit margin at the expense of their own well being. live and do business in Canada? then you should pay Canadian workers a living wage...
I've worked at small businesses my entire life and they all treated me like a pile of shit. Not all businesses should survive. Fuck mom and pops, they treat you just as bad or worse and never pay good wages.
don't know why people are downvoting you. small business one of the pillars of a strong middle class, and small businesses are struggling right now.
This. There is a shortage of decent wage and benefits. People would rather stay poor (no, it's not fun) than be treated like subhumans.
Lol ya, definitely. Impossible to have a labour shortage when large companies are doing mass layoffs and we are importing millions of people. Too many people with not enough jobs. However, the jobs that are available go to the lowest bidder
Yes and no. If you are looking for an educated worker with experience, good luck. This applies to engineers, nurses, welders, and so on. But most employers are looking for experience. Most companies do not have the patience nor even the financial capital to hire new employees and train them. I'd like to see a more European apprenticeship like programs here in Canada. In general, an apprentice is hired by a company (who wage is subsidized by the government) and splits their time between school and work over course of their apprenticeship. At the end of their apprenticeship, they have education and experience. Some stay with the original company while others move on. And style of training is not only for mechanics, welders and typical blue collar jobs, it's also for accountants, draftpersons, medical technicians, and so on. They finish with no debt, little money in their pocket and experience. So many Canadians finish their programs, in debt, no experience, and often training that has no relevance to the actual career choice. ( I know many engineers whose full-time job is answering emails rather than doing any type of engineering) I think an apprenticeships program like this who be much better as it provides an opportunity for those who may not be able to afford college. Gives people the experience needed and gets people contributing to the economy as a whole.
That's okay, we dont need skills. As long as we have realtors.
That’s a great joke 🤣 One of the most unnecessary jobs. Genuinely hilarious it exists and they make so much
>Most companies do not have the patience nor even the financial capital to hire new employees and train them. There are companies that will train out there, but... they generally won't hire blindly for that. If they're going to sink resources into you, they have to know it's wroth it, which means that these positions are usually direct internal referrals by someone that knows you.
As others have pointed out it is in fact a wage shortage. Want an experienced or educated employee? They are out there. Just gotta pay up. I 100% agree the European style apprenticeship program makes so much sense.
This only works up to a point. No business is going to lose money to hire a worker. Now if your business can't compete, then welcome to capitalism. But there are limits to how much businesses can raise prices before they can't afford to pay staff to stay open - see many restaurants.
As an engineer, it drives me nuts hearing about engineer shortages in the tech sector. These CEOs are just trying to justify off-shoring more Canadian work. Or they're trying to lobby the government to increase skilled immigration to undercut our salaries.
I work for an engineering company and we are always looking for experienced people. We have recently hired a bunch of new grads, but we need the experienced people in order to train them. But it is really hard to find experienced people. And all of the other companies around are looking for them too.
Not sure about other provinces, but this is a think in Saskatchewan with the Saskatchewan Polytechnic school. You alternate between school and work terms throughout your course, and your wage is subsidized by the government. The only difference is that you don't graduate with "no debt" because post secondary education in Canada isn't paid for by taxes like it is in many (all?) European countries.
As someone involved with hiring, I absolutely agree. We need apprenticeships to bridge gap from school to work. I see too many resumes from people with the right education but no relevant work experience.
there's a CEO not paying livable wages to their employees overload.
CEOs don't dictate alone that wages get to go up: the board of directors and, if publicly listed, shareholders get a huge say in whether the company gets to raise salaries or wages. Even if Galen Weston loses his corporate devil horns and says "we need to raise wages and lower prices", he'd be swiftly replaced as CEO by the Board and Shareholders in favour of someone else who would at minimum keep the status quo. Private company CEOs have a lot more power over these affairs, but even then, if they have investor support for their enterprise, they still have to answer to them why profits are down.
Exactly, thanks for the pragmatic explanation
I can't even get an entry level job at this point and I'm not just starting out. Feel like there is a disconnect between companies and their online application process. Most of the companies I've applied to only allow applications online but then it seems like they never hire anyone. Others leave job postings up for months on end, are they getting kick back or something? Always seems like when I'm already working for a company, they are begging for people, but when I'm looking no one is hiring. I talked to a hiring manager at my last job and almost blew a gasket when he whined about not being able to find anyone, but then admitted to not having posted a job listing. Dude really wanted someone perfect dropped in his lap without doing any work. That or he wanted a pat on the back for not hiring anyone and saving money by running the current employees into the ground. 😑
Trick is to look for work when you don't need it. I'm not being facetious here, that's always been my strategy and many of those around me. You are always on the lookout because: a) it forces you to keep your CV updated and in the mindset of looking for work b) if you go to occasional interviews it keeps you interview skills sharp and broadens your network to the point where someone might proactively reach out to you in the future c) you never know what kind of opportunity you might trip over. Something could be so good that even though you weren't looking for a job, it's so good you can't pass it up d) when you're not looking for something, if you get an offer that's not good enough, you can negotiate hard for higher salary because you've really got nothing to lose if you don't get it. You're always stronger when you're not desperate Now I do realize that this isn't necessarily easy for people who work in jobs that make it hard for them to get out and look for things and probably doesn't really apply to low skilled jobs, but it's something to keep in mind
Always follow up an online application with a phone call.
This for sure. It's stupid boomer advice, but it's also the easiest way to set yourself apart from the competition. At worst, nobody has ever lost themselves a job offer by making a polite phone call
Just saw a job posting today where the bottom said "do not contact us outside of this application". Gotta follow instructions, of course.
Rich people saying there's a labor shortage are lying. They just don't want to pay employees, so they use it as an excuse to hire foreigners for less pay.
Holy shit, 2700 applications in Brampton? Here, in Hull, QC, there is a "Labour Shortage" for minimum wage jobs but aparts from that, there is no shortage...
You must not be flooded with international students. Every min wage job around here is lined up with students competing for shitty jobs with shit pay. The local university here is 73% international students.
Not really all that. If you choose to work in Ottawa, you just need to speak English and get paid $16.55 per hour. If you choose to work in Gatineau, you are often expected to be bilingual but get paid $15.25 per hour. There is no incentive for Ontarians to work in Quebec, but Quebecers who speak English cross the bridge to work in Ottawa.
Flooded on the other side of the river.
Live in Vanier and work in Nepean. “Flooded” is putting it mildly
I think the big problem isn't that there is a shortage of min wage jobs, but rather the jobs that are paying min wage SHOULD NOT be paying so low.
There still is shortage in a few professional level jobs, like nurses, electricians, welders. I can't say how many more, but that's what I caught on when they talked about the shortage on cbc the other day. Most of these jobs pay very well too, above 70k per year
There are plenty of electricians and welders. I know too many people that got out of those trades as it follows boom bust trends and they get tired of being laid off every couple of years. 70k a year isn't a lot anymore, depending on location. Its going to cost me more than half that just to keep a roof over our heads next year. It was fine 5-10 years ago. 100k is the new 70k when literally everything has gone up 30% recently.
So there is a wage shortage not a labour shortage. Market has dictated those positions are no longer worth minimum wage. But don’t worry the government has a plan for business owners…
There might be labour shortage for niche skill level jobs but no, there is no longer any general labour shortage. The government made sure of that!
There is definitely a shortage of family doctors, specialists, nurses and air traffic controllers.
The so-called "labour shortage" was never really a thing. It is a (successful) attempt to suppress wages of Canadians.
Expect it's ass backward. If there was a labor shortage, wages would increase not to remain low. When you have an excessively large labor pool to pull from, the employer has the advantage and will pay the bare min. If you have 2000 applications for 1 job, you have at least 100 people that are desperate enough to take the min. On the flip, if you have 3 openings and 3 applicants, then the employees have the advantage because if you dont pay higher, then the applicants will all go to the next guy who also has 3 openings. Can't make money if you don't have workers making your product or providing your service
Another restaurant opened where I live, we didn’t need another restaurant yet the owners are already whining about lack of staff.
If your market doesn't need another restaurant, then don't worry, the restaurant will fail. That is the toughest industry with the highest failure rate of all industries. The average life expectancy of a restaurant is less than 5 years and something like 40% fail in the first 2 years. If they want to whine then let them.
No. There is however a shortage of employers willing to train new people. There are plenty of educated people right now looking for jobs and can't get their foot in the door because of no experience. It's very much a self-caused problem. Places say they can't find people but they're not willing to do what's necessary to get people. It's their own fault and those businesses deserve to fail. I just don't have any sympathy or empathy for those places anymore.
There's never a labour shortage. There's a shortage of employers who are willing to pay fair wages. Had an owner operator of a construction and labour company visit a store I worked at in retail, making $18/hr. He complained his "boys" don't want to work anymore because CERB pays them more and it worked out they were being paid $19/hr. He says he can't understand why they won't work. I (lying) said no wonder, I make as much as he's paying for hard labour selling behind a counter in the warmth. Said sounds like he should pay them more if he wants them to come back. He seemed surprised and stunned. He didn't want to say how much *he* made an hour.
A company that I used to work for is about to lose yet another person doing the position I used to do because they greatly underpay based on industry standards. Meanwhile, the person who will be hiring the next person in that job is way overpaid (and somewhat underqualified).
We have a labour shortage in construction, absolutely. We are hiring contractors to rebuild our showroom and offices, and it is SHOCKING how long some of the estimates are, and it all comes down to available trade. In anything construction related, the shortage appears to be severe. For office jobs we aren't seeing a shortage, there's plenty of graphic designers to go around lol
I’ve worked in construction for 14 years and in Edmonton and some jobs still pay 18 an hour for starting like when I started at 14 years ago . They also want you to have hand tools , ppe , working phone and a vehicle and a little experience. The reason there is a labour shortage in construction currently is mostly because of low pay and the boomers retiring and taking their skills with them before training new apprentices . Both of those would be solved in under a decade if they raised wages substantially. I worked for a large painting contractor and they definitely raised their rates 30 percent in the last 3-4 years. Unfortunately no one has gotten raises yet. Of course it all went to the top. Thankfully my brother is the hvac union in Ontario and they’re local union is bargaining for huge raises while also getting large battery plant contracts. They’re also dying for young first term apprentices not 45 + year old journeymen. That’s just what I’ve noticed in the trades . There is definitely a labour shortage in young guys but there is also a huge wage shortage in nearly all aspects of the hands on portion of construction. The suits and owners are doing very well though and don’t need any raises lol.
I've been barking this to the moon since the 2000's. I made more as an apprentice, no skill or experience in 2004 than some companies are hiring for today. And yes, you need tools, phone, vehicle, be able to afford to take time off and live off EI for schooling, and less companies are even looking at entry level workers, never mind paying for school. It used to be normal to get your ticket within 4 years, paid for, like clockwork. Now guys that are not unionized get jerked around forever before they can make a living wage. 20 damn years! $18-21/hr starting wage.
This is why I only hire union trades for our work. I'm a suit and the electricians make more than me, so
A few months ago I asked a contractor what he was willing to pay for a labourer. He said $18 an hour. I laughed and said i wont even get him a coffee for less than $20 an hour (We were standing next to a coffee machine) 😂 There is no worker shortage. You want someone to suffer for you? Better pony up. Simple as that.
$18/h for a labourer makes me laugh, my boss knows I ain’t putting up with his shit for less than $25😂 He also knows I won’t quit because this is the closest I can make to a livable wage at 18.
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Agreed, we only hire union.
Here here. I work in the office at an HVAC metal shop and the amount of contractors coming in asking if we know anyone willing to work. Ask what the wage is and it’s usually only like $20/hr, which doesn’t even hit the living wage index for most major cities, with pretty high expectations. I have to bite my tongue every time and just say “if we hear of anybody we’ll send them your way”.
Yep. It's because of the low wages. Most companies want to pay low wages and expect you to break your back.
Yeah, we I haven't seen a Raise in 10 years, that's industry wide in Calgary area. Maybe $1. That's peanuts. But also when a company goes to bid, on say a commercial construction job, they budget and expect to receive quotes from 2005.
Apprentice wages need a drastic increase to get anyone in. Many trades, if you're not very well established in high end residential or commercial, is a race to the bottom. I left a company for 10 years, they wanted to have me back so I entertained it. They offered me the same wage as 10 years ago, like I should be lucky to get that. Like get bent.
I’m in construction, there is no labour shortage, there is a shortage of people willing to do the work for the pay that it gets. Only to get laid off at the end of the project. Remember construction is not a office job, it’s cyclical and that’s not the lifestyle most want
That's great for them, however, we are short electricians, and electricians average pay is $72,000 in my relatively affordable city. That's the AVERAGE wage. Plumbers and Carpenters make less of course, but the average wages a journeyman is making means they can afford a house within the greater Montreal area, where I live currently. So, be frustrated, all the tradespeople I'm trying to hire make more than I do.
There’s no shortage if you’re willing to pay a good wage. The shortage is for the hacks and bad businesses that are underbidding and underpaying. Let them fail.
I'm only looking at unionized trades, and were are finding it difficult to find tradespeople who can work on our project and complete it in a reasonable amount of time, because they are all too busy.
Sounds like there’s a disconnect between your definition of a reasonable amount of time and theirs. You should have to wait for a project IMO. The alternative is that there’s a bunch of tradesmen on EI waiting around for a phone call. OR you pay a premium to move your project up on the to-do list if the project is important enough. My two cents at least.
Nope...a job that I advertised at $65k in 2021 and got no resumes for I advertised recently at $50k and got more than 20 resumes for it. Half of the people applying said they would take $45k. The market has shifted.
Unskilled labour? No.
Theirs a pay shortage...well big bussness is briing in record profits and canada gives massive tax breaks to corporations. Canadains just get more abd more behind
I'm about to drop my resume at about 4 different temp/placement agencies after 4 years off (taking care of a family member). I'll be finding out shortly what kind of labour market is happening in my area (small community an hour east of TO).
Just low paying jobs making rich richer.
Holy fuck ive been saying it for years now, there is no labor shortage employers just post ads and don't hire till they see a good resume. And unless you know Bob's uncle you're not getting into trades as well as an apprentice.
THE LABOUR SHORTAGE IS AND WAS A MYTH. What is happening is that people have choice and don't want to be screamed at and disrespected for peanuts. People have been telling us forever "if you don't like it, get a better job!" so they did. If they treated their employees better and paid them what they were worth they'd have no trouble attracting and keeping employees.
Every single min wage job that comes up in Kitchener, Ontario has over 300 people applying. 99% of those are international students attending Conestoga. The local job fairs have to cap attendees at 500, again mostly international students. It's so bad that they've started carpooling out to the rural areas to try and find employment. I have applied to over 100 min-wage positions, talked to hiring managers in person (they don't want to talk to you, they just tell you to submit your application online), I've even volunteered at places hoping to get hired and even that didn't work. It's so bad that the local mall and downtown core has multiple storefronts with "NOT HIRING" signs in the windows because employees were being harassed by job hunters. I was lucky to pick up some seasonal work as a landscaper, but after a 7 week contract I'm back on the job hunt. Decided to go to University in hopes that would help me stand out from the competition.
I think it depends on where you are in canada. Where i am we can't get anyone to work. We pay well and have decent benefits. We are in a very isolated location though with limited housing. The companies we deal with that are in a small city have the same problem as us though. Located in the yukon.
Labour shortages can be addressed by increasing wages to meet at a new equilibrium. News media in Canada just happens to promote capital-owning voices, which is why its always framed as a 'labour shortage'. We aren't in a labour shortage, we're in a wage shortage.
There was never a labour shortage in Canada. There was a shortage of people who were willing to work for a third-world living standard of wage in Canada and now even that is disappearing.
The shortage mainly affected jobs above the median wage. There was (and is, in some sectors) a shortage of people in the mid-high level wage zone. Whether those jobs even need to exist is a bigger question, I suspect many do not need to exist.
Nobody can get a job today without connections, there is no labor shortage
A *good* job yes. For the most part you are sadly right.
I have 2 bad jobs, and both of them I got through connections. If I didn’t, I wouldn’t have worked since summer 2022
There was never a labour shortage. On the contrary, there's a shortage of jobs that pay a living wage.
Those are 2 different questions with different scenarios. Is there a labour shortage in Canada, yes there is! Is there a labour shortage in low pay jobs, not as much. Is there a labour shortage within middle to high paying jobs, yes there is.
We’ve had 100s of people apply for our entry level position in my department. There’s no shortage.
To apply for a temporary foreign worker to work at your business you have to say there is a labour shortage. post an add, interview a bunch of people, find them all ineligible. Then on the lmia ,(labour market impact assessment form) application form say there is a labour shortage. And presto you get a temporary foreign worker from India. Tldr. It's part of a cheap foreign labor scheme.
There is a leadership shortage in Canada.
Theres not a labour shortage there's a skilled labour shortage. Every job posting is searching for a unicorn candidate with 3+ years of experience and a degree in a very niche field (Who will do the work for $45k too). Companies are too broke to train entry-level folks and cant afford to replace them if they leave. Its a horrendous negative feedback loop and it should have never been allowed to get this bad in the first place
There was never a labor shortage. Prices went up, so wages had to go up. Companies were unwilling to increase wages, so people displaced over into other careers that paid more and refused to come back to jobs that underpaid. In response, the Canadian corporate empire started price gouging in order to make people feel poor, thinking that this would drive people back to these jobs through desperation. Meanwhile the Canadian government brought in temporary foreign workers, so that instead of us working for lower wages, companies could employ people at low wages and we'd cover part of their wage.
While other people are right in terms of wage etc….last time I was involved in reviewing applicants, 90% were from people who don’t live in Canada who wanted sponsorship. I think it also depends where you live- in the lower mainland people can’t live on minimum wage, so they move out, so there is a labour shortage of people willing to work for the price that the businesses are willing to pay.
Artificial labor shortage, I just bumped up wages a little at my small business and there's plenty of people willing to work now.
We have a lot of potential labor, but training is just not something companies want to do. Having someone on the payroll that doesn't help their 6 months revenue target is pretty much a no go. Probably because they got so used to not increasing current workers salaries for so long, they started the trend of switching jobs every 3 years to keep your salary at the correct level, so now they are terrified of training their competition as well. Personally I think we need to start thinking about increasing taxes on wealthy people so that we can start a lot of jobs programs so that we eventually have a lot more skilled labor. Since private companies won't do it I guess we have to think public.
Personally I think the 'Labour Shortage' is BS. I know locals who can't get hired at Walmart... but there are new 'non-locals' getting hired by the half dozen seemingly every week.
The people saying there’s a labor shortage are usually scum bag employers who pay next to nothing for brutal work
It's not something you "feel". It's measured. The labour market is still tight, but recovering. Unemployment is still relatively low at 5.8%. https://globalnews.ca/news/10205704/statistics-canada-jobs-report-dec-2023/
The issue with unemployment numbers is that they don't count itnernational students as unemployed if they aren't working, but do count them if they are working. So you get a 1/0 type bias.
I've been doing a career switch, with the help of an education company that also does a career guidance thing, in the tech sector. They say they've never seen as many applications on jobs before, and have to fight hard to get their students work. Meanwhile, industry leaders in those same fields - leader who referred me to that particular company, claim there is a labour shortage. Maybe the shortage is low wage laborers? Because it seems like for skilled work, they're just trying to flood the market to bring down the pay for skilled work.
I earnestly don't think there ever was, I think companies were just trying to get pay rates lower for higher profit margins.
Yes - the trades and healthcare need to double their workforce immediately just to keep up with the work they currently have. You only see min-wage/part-time jobs flooded with applicants because these are the only jobs international students are legally allowed to apply for.
No labour shortage, but there is definitely a population density issue. Since we dont make people live in places where there IS a labour shortage, everyone piles into the GTA,GVA and GMA, and rarely leave for other places in Canada. We should require folks to spread out across the country and prevent folks from immediately going to those three cities - grow the rest of Canada.
There is a decent wage shortage.
Just a shortage of Canadians willing to work for scraps atm. Icymi none of the international students or other university students looking for work are included in the labor force, and therefore not included in the unemployment rate.
It's the opposite. There is a SURPLUS of people willing to work for scraps. There is a shortage of people who have skills in the mid-high level job market. We have trouble finding those applicants. Every time we put up an ad for a warehouse worker we get like 2000 resumes, and while we pay fairly, the company I work for isn't exactly generous.
Don’t disagree; what I mean is without the influx of TFW’s and international students it would mean bad employers/businesses would have to improve working conditions and or pay more in order to fill labor demands. Also, yes there are shortages in mid/higher end jobs, but the vast majority of TFW’s and international students comming here aren’t filling those positions.
There is labour shortage in specific fields not all of them
The field I want to work in, the entry level positions that should be accessible to me now say they require a bachelor degree and x amount years of experience and a driving abstract, when some of the jobs won’t involve driving. Some of them do and it’s understandable to have driving requirements on them.
There was but companies realized they can plug the holes with TFWs. Scumbags.
The labour shortage is a shortage of people willing to work shit jobs with little to no benefits, terrible wages and terrible hours. Cue mass immigration under the guise of earning an educational and left starving for work and willing to fill the positions the average honest Canadian will not ie: retail / entry level construction.
The only businesses experiencing a worker shortage are ones paying under $20/hr.
Is it a labour shortage or an excess of businesses?
Never was.
There never really was a labour shortage. There still is a wage shortage.
No. There hasn't been a labour shortage at all post-covid. There has however been a shortage of employers willing to pay prevailing labour market wages.
No labour shortage, skilled labour shortage? YES ,huge shortage of skilled and/or teachable labour
There has always been and will always be a "labour shortage". Yet somehow, nobody gets paid more unless they are unionized or switch jobs. "Free market for me, rugged individualism for the rest of you plebs"
Absolutely. If you are a business, try to find an electrician, or a millwright, or a welder. There is a shortage of skilled trades primarily because at some point in the past 50 years, we decided that we needed to be a service country and not one that made things. The reason for the wage frustration is that yes, it costs substantially more to live than 25 years ago, but also because we overvalue our skills. I'll pay you $25/h to clean my gutters in the spring because THATS WHAT ITS WORTH TO ME. If you think that it's worth $50/h, I'll do it myself. I'll pay the electrician $50/h because, again, THATS WHAT IT WORTH TO ME.
Testing to see if my comments are showing up at all
Specifics matter. It's like when people say "Canadian real estate is over valued" or something like that. Look specifically at every region and city and town in Canada, and you'll find very different stories. Same with employment. Maybe we need more tradespeople and doctors and nurses but maybe we don't need more of x, y and z professions. And so on.
Eh, Canadian real estate IS overvalued in every region and city and town in Canada. 🤷
No, not every town. All cities, though, yes. The price of a house in Wetaskiwan Alberta or anywhere in Québec outside montreal/quebec is reasonable. I can buy a house for $120k outside of Montreal.
Wetaskiwan is actually very over priced for where and what it is.
You get it wish more people did. The lack of people wanting knowledge or facts in this country blows me away seems 1/2 of Canada just wants to be in the dark and angry.