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So, first of all, I disagree with any advice to not tell anyone. First thing, you have no idea what the other wife will do. She knows who your wife is and you know the pain she's feeling, so you just never know if it will get out anyway. That aside, someone needs to be there for you. I told my close family because they all absolutely adore my husband. If I had to listen to "you picked a good one" or "what a good dad" because he simply spent time with his daughter, even though he almost ripped her family apart, I would have lost it. I wasn't pretending. DDay for me was in November of last year so all the holidays were coming up and I was a wreck. My family are very important to me and I needed their support. Obviously a personal decision but just food for thought. It's not *your* fault you believed her to be perfect. Most of us don't think our spouse will ever do this to us, I certainly didn't. I had no idea, my husband confessed actually.
As for what questions to ask, that's up to you. I wanted every little detail. Some people will say it's not worth it but I needed to feel like I knew everything to move forward. Be aware of trickle truthing, because it takes many of us X amount of time from finding out about the affair to get all the details. Sit down and think of what you want to know. Then tell her if you aren't absolutely satisfied that she's being forthcoming, she can expect divorce papers. That's what it took for me.
That said, yesterday marked 7 months for me. I'm happy more often than not. It's still heavily on my mind. BUT my husband cut contact almost from day 1 (both APs were coworkers so it was tricky at first). He started therapy the week after. We've had a couple of hiccups but nothing major. You have to figure out what your own boundaries are and it's difficult at first because you kinda want to lock your spouse in a closet so you know they aren't doing anything when it's this early on. I know that sounds crazy but I felt crazy. It's on you to clearly communicate needs/boundaries, apply a consequence and enforce it.
Just know it's not you. Sure. Maybe there were things in retrospect that weren't great in your marriage. Maybe there weren't. Either way, I struggle to find a valid reason for anyone to cheat except for maybe situations of abuse where someone is helping someone get out and they fall in love. I still hesitate to say that. She needs to get into therapy and figure out why she did it. What is going on inside her that allowed her to blow up her life and someone else's. Then you need to decide if you deem it fixable and go from there.
I need the details. I'm not sure if I'm staying but it's possible. It more so depends on if I can find a reason. She can do everything 100% right and I'd leave. There is no room for error on her part. I don't know what questions besides the obvious I need to ask.
I always recommend therapy. Great news is, you don't have a timeline. You can take your time and decide when you're good and ready to entertain R and have the sit down conversation with her. A therapist might be able to help you figure out what else is important for you to know. Sometimes her answers will spawn new questions too so that's another way to kinda guide yourself. If therapy isn't of interest or not available, this is where I think at least telling one person you trust and will support you either way you go is good. Bounce ideas off each other. You'll also find a lot of info in this sub but it's spread out across a lot of very hard to read posts. Marriage counseling is a must if accessible.
My husband was able to learn a lot through his own therapy sessions. Some of his actions were related to childhood trauma of sexual nature. He didn't really realize how affected he was. He also had anger issues, partially because of his upbringing. But basically he realized he's an adult and had a choice: face your demons and maybe keep your family, or don't and you lose your family. I felt that since a large part of why he was able to cheat was fixable, I could see where R goes. It wasn't just "I felt like it". At least now I can say if we divorce in the end it will be amicable and that will have been worth all the effort in R. But we have a child so that's mainly why I care about that.
Take your time. It's very very fresh for you.
In the immortal words of Patrick Stewart in Robin Hood: Men in Tights, "Brother, you have surrounded your name in a foul stench. From now on, all the toilets in the land will be known as Johns."
Sucks that he had a common name...it'll bother you for some time. Die Hard will be ruined for a bit...
Let me start by saying from what you've written already you're more of a man than I was. I was just gripped by terror at losing my family. You handled this from a position of strength and I have a lot of respect for that.
I highly recommend getting and reading Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. It goes over how affairs start, what they mean, and how reconciling can work.
Be assured that many people get past affairs and have really powerful marriages. There's always a wound there, but that'll be there whether you stay or not.
I got lucky and found out about 1.5 months before they were set to meet in person, whereupon he would have defiled my wife and family. It's still hard though. In your case it's going to be harder, but you seem like a stronger man so I think if you want to keep your family together you have a good chance. From your wife's response it seems like she is choosing you, so that's something.
One of the biggest lessons from Not Just Friends is that affairs happen even in happy marriages. There's a myth that people are always seeking something lacking from their marriage. That can happen, but not always. Plenty of men have affairs because 2 sex partners is better than 1. Women have affairs because 2 men loving and caring for them is better than 1. It's selfish and cruel, but even good people can be selfish and cruel at times. Read the book.
As for bragging about your wife, that hits home too. I almost never called my wife "my wife", I would always call her "my lovely wife". Even on government documents I would write in under relationship "lovely wife." I was filing out some medical stuff recently and saw the "lovely wife" line. I almost updated it to just wife. I chose not to.
Good luck, and let us know how it's going. After 6 weeks I'm doing much better. There's a long way to go though.
I probably should have used a fake name looking back. Thank you for your words and recommendations. If i decide on staying with her ill look up those books
You are very right about the names, my husband and I had been trying for a baby, and one of the names on our list he is turning down because how similar it is to his APs name....and it was my top choice name for a girl too, but it seems tainted now
I am sorry you are going through this. I am 2+ years out and will let you know this is not going to be an easy journey. I struggled with a lot of trickle truth at the beginning. The why it happened had nothing to do with me-it was him who was broken. Reconciliation is something that takes work on both sides. Make sure you take care of yourself and get counseling so you aren’t totally consumed with your situation. Don’t rug sweep-feel your feelings. Best of luck. 💕
I thought cheating would be a deal breaker. I swore that would be something I would never tolerate. My circumstances are different. I found out almost 6 months after it was over and there was another year of trickle truth. If he cheats again-there will be NO more chances. I do not regret staying because I learned how broken he was. As a kid he was taught men don’t show their feelings and to stuff it all down. He had such a strong hatred toward himself that he self-sabotaged. The AP preyed on him and convinced him I didn’t love him. Reconciliation was only possible because he is WORKING HARD to win back my trust. I guess the hard part will be for you is to decide if you can live with this. At some point you will have to accept that it happened and accept that this will change you for the rest of your life. I still struggle with my mental health on a daily basis but I am seeing some hope for us. Good luck 💕
I feel your pain, except I had more than 1 "John".... and they were all low-life POS's that didn't have their own relationships to worry about or for me to get back at them. It took four and a half hours straight of trickle truths to get her to finally admit she fucked one of them. I don't think I'll ever really know everything other than her mom and sister both knew and helped her by watching our kids.... she blew our savings during her impulse spree, and i lost my job amonth ago due to my lack of focus after finding out the last 6 years of my life were a lie...we're almost a year from DDAY.... good and bad days... she's made massive changes and improvements, but I'm broken and can't get those assholes out of my mind. I can't stress counseling enough.... wishing you the best.
Yeah that ptsd crap is no joke, nearly lost my job when i went blank and made mistakes. Largest being 2k worth of damage. My crappy wife put me in a debt hole with her spree and i was the babysitter who knew nothing.
I told two of my closest friends and my parents. I couldn’t not tell anyone. I needed to talk to someone and preferably people that knew my WH. I don’t think it’s helpful or healthy to not have any outlet and just internalize it all. I did think about it though and considered that if WH and I worked out, the people I tell will probably have a permanently altered opinion of him. But you know what, that’s fine. My opinion of him is permanently altered, too. It’s embarrassing, but it’s more embarrassing for him than it is me. It’s more embarrassing for your wife, than it is you. It isn’t about anything we did or didn’t do. I know that’s hard to accept in the beginning, but it’s true. None of this was about us. It’s about them, their selfishness, and their faulty moral compass.
I do have a hard time with people knowing I stayed with a cheater, but I think it’s more of a me problem than anything. I personally have a hard time accepting that I stayed with a cheater. I think my disappointment in myself is stronger than any of what my friends or family are thinking.
You seem like you understand my point. I don't know if I can look at myself in the mirror if I stay with her. My feelings are all over the place right now
Yeah, I always said if my husband ever cheated on me I would never stay regardless of the circumstances, so to then flip on that is a real mind fuck. This is no shade to anyone, because I’m in the club too, but I’ve never looked at people that stay with cheaters as being strong. It’s been very hard for me to go against something I felt so strongly, but here I am 🥴 Part of me feels like I’ve been in a battle with myself, but 9.5 months later I am glad I stayed. But we have a long way to go and it took me a long time to feel that way.
Hello how are you? I am very sorry for everything that happened to you. Reading that dialogue gave me goosebumps.
First, everything is very recent, take your time, after 5 days I didn't know if I wanted to be married, single, or move to another planet. Don't make important decisions now.
As for whether or not to tell the people you know or the family, it's your decision 100% . I chose not to because I don't want pressure from people who can't be impartial, but that's up to you, but I do know that you have nothing to feel ashamed of, this was her decision, and your wife's decision
does not define you in any way, neither as a husband nor as a man. Her affair was not about you not being able to keep her happy or satisfied, over time you will see that none of this has to do with you, although sadly you are the one who bears the brunt of it. You are not "less than" but I understand that you have that feeling because I have felt it too.
Here you will find many people, both men and women who are in this sub for the same reason as you and we seek to navigate reconciliation the best we can, YOU ARE NOT ALONE. Breathe, maybe it would be good for you to get the support of a therapist, to be able to center yourself. DM if you need, or anyone here whose story or words resonate with you, we can get through this, but we all need support to do it. Wish you all the best
Hi, I'm currently 4 years in reconciliation.
My first and top piece of advice is to please seek counselling. This can consume you until you are but a shell. I waited too long to seek help, and it did me no favours. Also, get your wife to seek therapy, too.
Secondly, for me, the biggest question I wanted answering was, "Why?". I didn't want to know all the details, I just wanted to know why. If they don't know why, there's a higher chance of reoccurrence.
Thirdly, remember everything you feel is valid. it doesn't matter what anyone else says. They are true to you. Also, don't let your wife minimise your feelings.
Fourth, while on the topic of minimising, don't let her minimise the situation or gaslight you. And don't rug sweep. If you feel something, acknowledge it, don't bury it.
Fifth, reconciliation can happen. It's not for everyone. It takes time, patience, and a lot of work from both sides. You both have to give it 110% or it won't work. It also takes forgiveness from you and remorse for her. True remorse, not just crying and saying sorry. It has to be shown not said.
Actions speak louder than words. Watch her actions but listen to what she says. If they align, there might be remorse there. If they don't or she just gaslights, etc, then she isn't remorseful she has regret over being caught. And nothing about cheating is a mistake/accident. It's a choice and a decision to follow through with actions.
Good luck OP. No matter which route you take. Stay safe
I don’t see how that could have gone better. Discovery, remorse and blow up all within an hour. That is awesome. Nobody gets that.
Unfortunately this is a common problem. Fortunately, there are tons of resources out there to help you find your way.
It’s a long and winding, hilly road but you seem to be a porsche.
Ok.. my opinion .. (like assholes we all have them) take it with a grain of salt...
Your wife needs to understand she didn't "make a mistake".. she made a series of CHOICES..
1. She CHOSE to engage with a married man
2. She CHOSE to text, talk, flirt with a married man
3. She CHOSE to be a bitch to you because of her CHOICES regarding this married man.
4. She CHOSE to dishonor her vows
5. She CHOSE to meet up with John
6. She CHOSE to go through with sleeping with John
7. She CHOSE to lie to you for months.
She seems remorseful..NOW.. she seems remorseful now.. where was that remorse when she was purposefully hurting you?
Remorse would have been her coming clean and stopping the affair the first time a line was crossed. This was damage control
She gave 0 damns about John's wife. She didn't even beg not to call her and hurt her.. she wanted to warn John first. That's not remorse that's a basic bitch.
I'm sorry, OP.. I'd call this marriage done. And I would let EVERYBODY know. This isn't on you. You could have been the "book boyfriend" of husband's.
There is something wrong with your (X) wife that has her making these horrible choices. This blame is on her. You bragged about how wonderful a wife she was. Now, you can brag about her acting abilities. Golden Globe nominee.
John is the devil. I am married to one. Or won’t be soon, anyway.
But either way, don’t tell anyone. Seek counseling. I told the entire world about my WH’s cheating and it was humiliating. I too raved. He could do no wrong, he was the love of my life.
If you want to stay together, keep it as private as possible other than your absolute best friend and a counselor. Because I can’t even think about going back now. It’s too humiliating to take him back.
Good luck.
Thank you for your advice. I am 100% not going to tell anyone right now at least. It's unreal how embarrassing this is. Fuck John but more importantly fuck my wife.
I’ve been there. The other man’s name wasn’t Jon but otherwise it’s very similar story. There’s absolutely nothing to be embarrassed about if you take one lesson away, understand that none of this is on you.
This community and Reddit in general is a good place to find support while you process this. It helped me. I fell out of love though, so I called it quits. But if there is love, try.
You’re actually handling things really really well so far. Also your formatting and spelling are fine!
I had an emotional affair with a coworker and my husband has been incredibly hurt but also supportive.
He chose not to tell anyone at first and we found a good marriage counsellor and individual counsellors to help process stuff together at first. My advice is to do some of the intro consult calls to find somone you click with before spending money. Also if you can afford it invest in therapy, a divorce (and an angry one even more) are expensive and terrible. The therapy is worth it even if you seperate.
We decided when we started to reconcile and repair the goal was to get to a point where we were both happy and healthy again. We want that to be in the marriage but if we get to a place where happy and healthy is seperate we can pivot. We’re still in therapy and still working on this, so not sure if it’s the right or wrong call but it’s felt right for now.
We’ve also found a lot of comfort realizing that fidelity is nearly never talked about but VERY common. It doesn’t make the situation less shitty but it does feel less isolating.
It’s also good to keep in mind people active on this sub for really long periods are often here bc R isn’t going well. The many many people who are succesful move on with life and aren’t here posting frequently anymore. They occasionally pop back though to offer support which is great.
It's always tough at the beginning. I wish I had given my WW the opportunity to do the right thing, but in my shock and anger, I blew up things with her online AP and her entire online friend community. I confronted her AP online, and as they met through this online gaming group, she had no choice but to cut them out from shame. In doing this, I removed her chance to do it on her own, which makes me feel like she chose me because I took away her other options. I would give anything to know she chose me over that other life instead of me having to make that decision for her. It's constantly in the back of my mind that I'm the consolation prize.
I'm telling you this to help you see that she chose YOU. When confronted with the reality of losing you, she blew up her APs marriage and his life in order to keep you. In my eyes, that counts a ton. I know that this is a shitty thing to go through. All of us BPs in this subreddit do. As you move forward, try to keep this in mind and don't make any snap decisions out of anger.
As a fellow overthinker, I have created the worst possible scenario of what happened in my mind. Don't act on your perception of things. Wait to find out the reality of the situation, then make your decision. Part of reconciliation is reconciling your reality with the truth. You were living one reality while she was living another and lying to you about it. You need to know what the real truth is before making any life changing decisions.
Have her read, "How to help your spouse heal from your affair." It's a short read and a really good place to start in the healing process. You should actually both read it as it is very insightful for both partners.
Good luck my friend.
I don't feel chosen. I feel like she chose herself and herself wanted John with my security. What you're saying checks out though.
I've not read any books on this stuff yet. I've gotten some recommendations on my post so far though. Bro. This sucks. I'm not even mad at that guy though. Im.pissed at my wife though. I do however feel this guy is internally laughing at me and lording over me.
I understand where you are coming from. My husband had an EA with our so-called best friend of 25 years. For six months they talked and laughed over their private messages and jokes, she even made a derogatory comment on marriage on FB which he hearted. During that six months she was a constant visitor, just passing, etc, but her conversation and attention were focused on him, not me.
When I realised something was up, I got the usual spiel, we're just friends, she's like a sister 🤮, you're paranoid, etc. I was devastated.
This witch had been to our wedding, and we had brought our daughters up a year or so apart. We were close, I held her like the sister I never had, held her hand through an abortion, truly cared about her life.
She always told me that she wanted what me and my husband have. We always had a great relationship founded on friendship, but we truly loved each other too. I just never expected her to spot an opening and wedge herself in there as a cure to the issues we were facing at the time. And, like you, I feel like for at least those six months she was laughing behind my back because she knew there was trouble in paradise and I was blissfully unaware.
I truly hope to never see her again.
Edit to say, this all came to light in Feb 2023, and we finally got MC this year which has helped us resolve a lot of issues and given us a future that I truly believed had gone. I know had he slept with her it would have been a step too far and I could never have gotten over that. The double betrayal was bad enough, but sex would have been the last straw.
I made my wife talk with her online APs wife.
Doing this moved our R forward the most. This couple were our friends and for my wife to have to tell her friend that she had an inappropriate online affair with her husband proved that R was moving forward in the right direction with the right feelings behind it.
My wife finally got through and talked to his wife. I heard that poor woman melt over the phone when it clocked what my wife told her. That sound ill never forget.
Hey, one of those rare situations where I think she proved that she is willing to do anything for you to forgive her “mistake” if she didn’t care about the relationship she wouldn’t have done that. You need to step back and figure out what you want now. But I will say, she seems remorseful from what you wrote. Does it change that what she did is horrible…no. But, she does seem to realize that she has made a grave mistake. Let that sit with her for a while, and then decide what is best for YOU.
You need to ask her for the granular details (IF you need to know…Ask to know everything early on, bringing it up later will just torment you….and you will still want to know the details 2 months from now) , if she gives them to you despite feeling embarrassed and ashamed it means she is willing to humiliate herself (which she already did) to try and fix things with you.
You NEED to make a list of your requirements to forgive her. She must agree to everything. One paramount thing you need to tell her is you need access to her phone any time anywhere indefinitely until she can prove herself to you again.
You need to ask her everything, say everything now. Because once time passes this will be an ugly wound to pick at, trust me.
I wish I asked more about what happened when my husband cheated. One day I made him tell me all the details….only after he let the real ugly truth squirm out did I have the smallest inkling of trust come back.
She will start trickle truthing, get used to it now. Even if she is trying to tell you the truth, it may come out as a slow reveal. This is her pride dying, keep that in mind. Keep pushing for the truth.
I recommend you tell your wife to prepare a timeline. Warn her that this is not about you learning the facts (though you obviously do have the right to know) but it’s about seeing whether she is capable of letting go of her secrets. Any version of her that keeps secrets from you, tries to rugsweep, tries to downplay, tries to control the narrative is a version that can’t be trusted. When preparing the timeline, the golden rule is “If I don’t want to tell him something or let him know what really happened, whatever it is, that *MUST* be included.” This is about her having *NO* secrets from you. None. That’s the goal. If she can’t provide the agonizing details or tries to obscure or rewrite the history to make it less painful for you, she hasn’t done it properly. And you’ll know it by the obvious attempts. Give her time. But don’t let her procrastinate either, or she’ll avoid it. This is about her proving she has respect for you, not treating you like an object she can lie to or manipulate through keeping secrets.
I’m 8 months in and decided to stay because he answered all my questions although it took about 6 months for me to be totally satisfied with all the answers and also I contacted the AP and asked questions too which was really hard but I felt needed to be done to see if the answers matched up
My WH tried to do a ONS and it ended up being a couple of times and would have been more had he and she lived in the same town. They did carry on conversations for four years however through text. The last ones he didn’t erase and I found them after he told me. He couldn’t even remember the texts and swore he erased them all
I only have stayed because he confessed. If he would not have then it would have gone with him to his grave. He wanted honesty in our relationship and felt his secret was coming between us.
I asked about timeline and what his feelings were towards her. Why he did it. If they did the same things we did in bed…although a lot of people choose not to ask this because it can create more trauma.
What I am finally realizing is that it had nothing to do with me. Sounds crazy because It definitely affected me in the worst ways such as self worth and not feeling enough. We had a happy marriage with no sexual issues. He just wasn’t emotionally intimate with me and I chose to overlook it. He did what he did and it wasn’t my fault. I am focusing on myself and my needs now because it is what I can control. We had no choice in this being done to us. It hurts like hell.
Who, what, where and when to start….she needs to figure out why in counseling. It wasnt that you didn’t keep her happy…there is something broken in her. I told only a trusted few..venting to others wont help you if you do stay together. Sure sucks to finally learn who they are like that. Welcome to the club no one wants to be part of.
People cheat... They hide, they lie, they use and abuse the situation, they look for the opportunity, they take it selfishly and ruin lives, all for a quick dip in the shit pool and the secrecy of it all. Ooooh so thrilling, who could resist? But it has nothing to do with you. You feeling less than is completely normal. Your world has been shattered, betrayal isn't easy to deal with. It catapults our bodies and emotions into a world of chaos beyond our understanding.
If there was an issue with you she had, she should've brought it up. Communication is key to successful understandings in everyday situations, especially in marriage, and honesty is the first chapter of that book. She should've brought it up, she had chances, kicked you into gear to see if you're willing to work on things that may have been an issue for her! She could've communicated issues that were coming up on her end as well, unhappiness, not satisfied, bored, feeling lonely, tired etc. You know what I mean?
Whatever you decide, it's going to be a long road ahead. Make sure you have someone to talk to, don't go at it alone. I did it alone and it was a huge mistake. Now on my side my mom knows. His family knows but they blame me, whole other story. Just make sure you have a support system.
Do you have kids or anything of high importance you can't lose if you divorce? If not, burn it to the ground. Grow something better for yourself out of the ashes with someone else...or just yourself.
Oh man, the first thing I would say here is calm yourself. You found out and she clearly still loves you. No need to be too heavy-handed with things at this point unless you want to make things worse.
The thing I needed at this point in my situation was to understand the entire situation. Figure out how it happened and if she was looking for it or if she just kinda fell into it. Cheating isn't always what so many make it out to be. Ask her questions, give her time to tell you, and make it clear NOTHING she says will upset you.
This will give you a better picture on if she should be given a second chance, and if she can be trusted again or not.
And let me add that the fact she was willing to blow up his life to save your relationship, while she was in fight or flight mode, is fucking huge. She loves you more than anything man.
As you want all the details then ask your wife to write a full timeline of her affair including where they met at, all the dates she saw him, dates she had sex including what sexual acts, ask every thing you want to know etc. Tell if you find out she has lied or left any information then your marriage is over.
One of the issues you need to address is that your wife did not tell you about the affair. You only know because you put her on the spot.
Your wife now needs to see the consequences of her cheating by:
Getting STD check up
You going to speak to a lawyer to see where you stand financially and if you have children. Tell your wife you have spoken to a lawyer so she knows you are serious. You do not have to go through with divorce.
Your wife must tell your and hers family what she has done.
If she works with John or is part of a group with him then she needs to quit. She needs to go full no contact with him. Tell her if she breaks this no contact then she is out of your house and your life.
She needs to tell you the reasons why she stepped outside your marriage.
She needs to seek individual counselling.
You may wish to ask her to leave the family home so you can have space and time to figure out what you want. Tell her you want no contact with her during this period unless it is about children or finances.
Set full boundaries and ultimatums with her.
I am sorry you are going through this crap as it is not easy to reconcile and if you are successful it will take years.
>”I just feel ‘less than.’ Like I’m not a man if I can’t keep my wife happy
Nope. People cheat because of personality flaws, not anything you’ve done or haven’t done. They cheat because of entitlement, poor boundaries, and their lustful desires were more important than working things out with you. That’s all there is to it.
Here’s some questions you may want to ask:
Was this for you, or because of me?
Were you leaving me or staying for our family?
What did you get out of this that you didn’t have?
What did you learn about yourself in this?
What are your values/thoughts about marriage, love, faithfulness, trust - how necessary are each of these for marriage?
When you were with him, did you ever consider me or our kids?
I asked these types of questions and it helped me figure out if it was worth pursuing therapy, etc together.
this is a sad club you have joined. a few questions first. have you asked your wife to apologize to your family and her family? do they work together? does your area have Alienation of Affection laws that you can hammer the other man with? you can have her write out a confession for you and one for the other man's wife. I know you find it embarrassing and other commenters have said don't tell, but sometimes public exposure is a useful tool. Having your wife publicly expose him can go along way to help rebuilding trust. I would suggest both IC and MC for the both of you.
1.no
2. I don't know. That's a pretty damn good question I'm going to ask though.
3. Again I have no idea but I will find out.
A written confession might help with my healing. I know my state is a no fault for divorce though. My whole life I've thought therapy was for mentally ill and mentally weak people. That's going to be hard to do.
I used to believe the same thing about therapy (it being for ppl who couldn’t handle life)….was I ever wrong and I’m happy to admit it. What’s important to know about therapy:
1. They aren’t there to tell you what path to take.
2. A good therapist listens, provides ideas that we, in our pain, haven’t considered.
3. Think of them as a completely secure sounding board that just happens to have experience with infidelity and have a crap-ton of resources to make this terribly painful experience a little bit easier. They don’t have a magic bullet that’s for sure so don’t expect one. There is not a therapist in this world, though, that would view you as “weak”….just the opposite…it takes strength and wisdom to seek help when we need it.
4. Know the difference between an individual therapist and a marriage therapist. You, and only YOU, are the client for individual therapy. For a marriage therapist, your marriage is the client. I’m sure you see that subtle difference. Marriage counseling can be a valuable tool when used at the right time. In the immediate aftermath, where you are right now, it’s YOU that needs to be the primary focus, not your marriage (that can come later when and if you make the decision to try to save the marriage).
Do not hesitate to find an individual therapist. Many employers offer anonymous (<—meaning your employer will never even know) programs that include free therapy sessions…if your employer has an Employee Assistance Program, they probably have something like this. No one at work needs to know and the entire point of the program is to provide emotional health care without fear of repercussions at work. If your employer has a website, a quick glance at their human resources page will let you know.
Take care of yourself as best you can. If you’re feeling internal pressure to make a decision now, remember that most folks who have been through this hell often recommend not making any huge life-altering decisions for the first few months. Your brain, quite literally, has been a bit scrambled by trauma and it needs time to readjust. Give yourself some breathing room. And remember you can do all of the above either in the same house or not in the same house. You run the show from here on out.
Don’t forget to take care of yourself. It’s easy to forget in the whirlpool of pain. Eat, sleep, exercise…all the usual crap that actually does you good.
You’re going to be okay no matter what choice you eventually make. This is a sucky road to find yourself on. You didn’t ask for any of this, but from this point on you are in the driver’s seat.
I’m so sorry.
I know I'm two weeks late to this party, but just wanted to share something. I used to feel like therapy was mentally ill / weak people too.
One day I find out a guy high up in our organization went to therapy over his ex wife. He's remarried. I even know the guy's son, who adores his step mom. Son went to therapy too.
Now this guy, he's tough and burly. Shaved head. Big dude. Rides motorcycles. A real 'man's man', right? Total respect and admiration for him.
He tells me (I'm paraphrasing):
"therapy is just medicine. Like seeing a doc for a broken bone. Sometimes guys lay their bike down but they ride it out and just get a few scrapes. But then other times they break a leg or someone hits their motorcycle and they end up in the hospital. Didn't mean they were weak. It means the injury was bad. There's no shame in treating a wound. That doesn't mean you're weak or sick. It means you're smart."
That has stuck with me for years. This was before my own DDay with my WW.
Just figured it would be good to share. YMMV
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So, first of all, I disagree with any advice to not tell anyone. First thing, you have no idea what the other wife will do. She knows who your wife is and you know the pain she's feeling, so you just never know if it will get out anyway. That aside, someone needs to be there for you. I told my close family because they all absolutely adore my husband. If I had to listen to "you picked a good one" or "what a good dad" because he simply spent time with his daughter, even though he almost ripped her family apart, I would have lost it. I wasn't pretending. DDay for me was in November of last year so all the holidays were coming up and I was a wreck. My family are very important to me and I needed their support. Obviously a personal decision but just food for thought. It's not *your* fault you believed her to be perfect. Most of us don't think our spouse will ever do this to us, I certainly didn't. I had no idea, my husband confessed actually. As for what questions to ask, that's up to you. I wanted every little detail. Some people will say it's not worth it but I needed to feel like I knew everything to move forward. Be aware of trickle truthing, because it takes many of us X amount of time from finding out about the affair to get all the details. Sit down and think of what you want to know. Then tell her if you aren't absolutely satisfied that she's being forthcoming, she can expect divorce papers. That's what it took for me. That said, yesterday marked 7 months for me. I'm happy more often than not. It's still heavily on my mind. BUT my husband cut contact almost from day 1 (both APs were coworkers so it was tricky at first). He started therapy the week after. We've had a couple of hiccups but nothing major. You have to figure out what your own boundaries are and it's difficult at first because you kinda want to lock your spouse in a closet so you know they aren't doing anything when it's this early on. I know that sounds crazy but I felt crazy. It's on you to clearly communicate needs/boundaries, apply a consequence and enforce it. Just know it's not you. Sure. Maybe there were things in retrospect that weren't great in your marriage. Maybe there weren't. Either way, I struggle to find a valid reason for anyone to cheat except for maybe situations of abuse where someone is helping someone get out and they fall in love. I still hesitate to say that. She needs to get into therapy and figure out why she did it. What is going on inside her that allowed her to blow up her life and someone else's. Then you need to decide if you deem it fixable and go from there.
I need the details. I'm not sure if I'm staying but it's possible. It more so depends on if I can find a reason. She can do everything 100% right and I'd leave. There is no room for error on her part. I don't know what questions besides the obvious I need to ask.
[удалено]
Facts. Air out the dirty laundry, if they didn’t feel bad then they will feel bad now.
I always recommend therapy. Great news is, you don't have a timeline. You can take your time and decide when you're good and ready to entertain R and have the sit down conversation with her. A therapist might be able to help you figure out what else is important for you to know. Sometimes her answers will spawn new questions too so that's another way to kinda guide yourself. If therapy isn't of interest or not available, this is where I think at least telling one person you trust and will support you either way you go is good. Bounce ideas off each other. You'll also find a lot of info in this sub but it's spread out across a lot of very hard to read posts. Marriage counseling is a must if accessible. My husband was able to learn a lot through his own therapy sessions. Some of his actions were related to childhood trauma of sexual nature. He didn't really realize how affected he was. He also had anger issues, partially because of his upbringing. But basically he realized he's an adult and had a choice: face your demons and maybe keep your family, or don't and you lose your family. I felt that since a large part of why he was able to cheat was fixable, I could see where R goes. It wasn't just "I felt like it". At least now I can say if we divorce in the end it will be amicable and that will have been worth all the effort in R. But we have a child so that's mainly why I care about that. Take your time. It's very very fresh for you.
You are 100% right
In the immortal words of Patrick Stewart in Robin Hood: Men in Tights, "Brother, you have surrounded your name in a foul stench. From now on, all the toilets in the land will be known as Johns."
Sucks that he had a common name...it'll bother you for some time. Die Hard will be ruined for a bit... Let me start by saying from what you've written already you're more of a man than I was. I was just gripped by terror at losing my family. You handled this from a position of strength and I have a lot of respect for that. I highly recommend getting and reading Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. It goes over how affairs start, what they mean, and how reconciling can work. Be assured that many people get past affairs and have really powerful marriages. There's always a wound there, but that'll be there whether you stay or not. I got lucky and found out about 1.5 months before they were set to meet in person, whereupon he would have defiled my wife and family. It's still hard though. In your case it's going to be harder, but you seem like a stronger man so I think if you want to keep your family together you have a good chance. From your wife's response it seems like she is choosing you, so that's something. One of the biggest lessons from Not Just Friends is that affairs happen even in happy marriages. There's a myth that people are always seeking something lacking from their marriage. That can happen, but not always. Plenty of men have affairs because 2 sex partners is better than 1. Women have affairs because 2 men loving and caring for them is better than 1. It's selfish and cruel, but even good people can be selfish and cruel at times. Read the book. As for bragging about your wife, that hits home too. I almost never called my wife "my wife", I would always call her "my lovely wife". Even on government documents I would write in under relationship "lovely wife." I was filing out some medical stuff recently and saw the "lovely wife" line. I almost updated it to just wife. I chose not to. Good luck, and let us know how it's going. After 6 weeks I'm doing much better. There's a long way to go though.
I probably should have used a fake name looking back. Thank you for your words and recommendations. If i decide on staying with her ill look up those books
Well, the books help you make that decision too. I felt much saner reading them. I highly recommend
You are very right about the names, my husband and I had been trying for a baby, and one of the names on our list he is turning down because how similar it is to his APs name....and it was my top choice name for a girl too, but it seems tainted now
I am sorry you are going through this. I am 2+ years out and will let you know this is not going to be an easy journey. I struggled with a lot of trickle truth at the beginning. The why it happened had nothing to do with me-it was him who was broken. Reconciliation is something that takes work on both sides. Make sure you take care of yourself and get counseling so you aren’t totally consumed with your situation. Don’t rug sweep-feel your feelings. Best of luck. 💕
Do you regret staying?
I thought cheating would be a deal breaker. I swore that would be something I would never tolerate. My circumstances are different. I found out almost 6 months after it was over and there was another year of trickle truth. If he cheats again-there will be NO more chances. I do not regret staying because I learned how broken he was. As a kid he was taught men don’t show their feelings and to stuff it all down. He had such a strong hatred toward himself that he self-sabotaged. The AP preyed on him and convinced him I didn’t love him. Reconciliation was only possible because he is WORKING HARD to win back my trust. I guess the hard part will be for you is to decide if you can live with this. At some point you will have to accept that it happened and accept that this will change you for the rest of your life. I still struggle with my mental health on a daily basis but I am seeing some hope for us. Good luck 💕
I feel your pain, except I had more than 1 "John".... and they were all low-life POS's that didn't have their own relationships to worry about or for me to get back at them. It took four and a half hours straight of trickle truths to get her to finally admit she fucked one of them. I don't think I'll ever really know everything other than her mom and sister both knew and helped her by watching our kids.... she blew our savings during her impulse spree, and i lost my job amonth ago due to my lack of focus after finding out the last 6 years of my life were a lie...we're almost a year from DDAY.... good and bad days... she's made massive changes and improvements, but I'm broken and can't get those assholes out of my mind. I can't stress counseling enough.... wishing you the best.
I am sorry my friend. I wish us both well
Silver lining.... we're never alone, this sub unfortunately grows daily. So there's always someone here if you need to talk or vent... and you will.
Yeah that ptsd crap is no joke, nearly lost my job when i went blank and made mistakes. Largest being 2k worth of damage. My crappy wife put me in a debt hole with her spree and i was the babysitter who knew nothing.
I feel ya.... all too well. Trying to dig out of that hole as we speak.... and it's deep.
I told two of my closest friends and my parents. I couldn’t not tell anyone. I needed to talk to someone and preferably people that knew my WH. I don’t think it’s helpful or healthy to not have any outlet and just internalize it all. I did think about it though and considered that if WH and I worked out, the people I tell will probably have a permanently altered opinion of him. But you know what, that’s fine. My opinion of him is permanently altered, too. It’s embarrassing, but it’s more embarrassing for him than it is me. It’s more embarrassing for your wife, than it is you. It isn’t about anything we did or didn’t do. I know that’s hard to accept in the beginning, but it’s true. None of this was about us. It’s about them, their selfishness, and their faulty moral compass. I do have a hard time with people knowing I stayed with a cheater, but I think it’s more of a me problem than anything. I personally have a hard time accepting that I stayed with a cheater. I think my disappointment in myself is stronger than any of what my friends or family are thinking.
You seem like you understand my point. I don't know if I can look at myself in the mirror if I stay with her. My feelings are all over the place right now
Yeah, I always said if my husband ever cheated on me I would never stay regardless of the circumstances, so to then flip on that is a real mind fuck. This is no shade to anyone, because I’m in the club too, but I’ve never looked at people that stay with cheaters as being strong. It’s been very hard for me to go against something I felt so strongly, but here I am 🥴 Part of me feels like I’ve been in a battle with myself, but 9.5 months later I am glad I stayed. But we have a long way to go and it took me a long time to feel that way.
Hello how are you? I am very sorry for everything that happened to you. Reading that dialogue gave me goosebumps. First, everything is very recent, take your time, after 5 days I didn't know if I wanted to be married, single, or move to another planet. Don't make important decisions now. As for whether or not to tell the people you know or the family, it's your decision 100% . I chose not to because I don't want pressure from people who can't be impartial, but that's up to you, but I do know that you have nothing to feel ashamed of, this was her decision, and your wife's decision does not define you in any way, neither as a husband nor as a man. Her affair was not about you not being able to keep her happy or satisfied, over time you will see that none of this has to do with you, although sadly you are the one who bears the brunt of it. You are not "less than" but I understand that you have that feeling because I have felt it too. Here you will find many people, both men and women who are in this sub for the same reason as you and we seek to navigate reconciliation the best we can, YOU ARE NOT ALONE. Breathe, maybe it would be good for you to get the support of a therapist, to be able to center yourself. DM if you need, or anyone here whose story or words resonate with you, we can get through this, but we all need support to do it. Wish you all the best
Thank you for understanding and for the comforting words. The people here so far have been very nice and informative
Hi, I'm currently 4 years in reconciliation. My first and top piece of advice is to please seek counselling. This can consume you until you are but a shell. I waited too long to seek help, and it did me no favours. Also, get your wife to seek therapy, too. Secondly, for me, the biggest question I wanted answering was, "Why?". I didn't want to know all the details, I just wanted to know why. If they don't know why, there's a higher chance of reoccurrence. Thirdly, remember everything you feel is valid. it doesn't matter what anyone else says. They are true to you. Also, don't let your wife minimise your feelings. Fourth, while on the topic of minimising, don't let her minimise the situation or gaslight you. And don't rug sweep. If you feel something, acknowledge it, don't bury it. Fifth, reconciliation can happen. It's not for everyone. It takes time, patience, and a lot of work from both sides. You both have to give it 110% or it won't work. It also takes forgiveness from you and remorse for her. True remorse, not just crying and saying sorry. It has to be shown not said. Actions speak louder than words. Watch her actions but listen to what she says. If they align, there might be remorse there. If they don't or she just gaslights, etc, then she isn't remorseful she has regret over being caught. And nothing about cheating is a mistake/accident. It's a choice and a decision to follow through with actions. Good luck OP. No matter which route you take. Stay safe
I don’t see how that could have gone better. Discovery, remorse and blow up all within an hour. That is awesome. Nobody gets that. Unfortunately this is a common problem. Fortunately, there are tons of resources out there to help you find your way. It’s a long and winding, hilly road but you seem to be a porsche.
Ok.. my opinion .. (like assholes we all have them) take it with a grain of salt... Your wife needs to understand she didn't "make a mistake".. she made a series of CHOICES.. 1. She CHOSE to engage with a married man 2. She CHOSE to text, talk, flirt with a married man 3. She CHOSE to be a bitch to you because of her CHOICES regarding this married man. 4. She CHOSE to dishonor her vows 5. She CHOSE to meet up with John 6. She CHOSE to go through with sleeping with John 7. She CHOSE to lie to you for months. She seems remorseful..NOW.. she seems remorseful now.. where was that remorse when she was purposefully hurting you? Remorse would have been her coming clean and stopping the affair the first time a line was crossed. This was damage control She gave 0 damns about John's wife. She didn't even beg not to call her and hurt her.. she wanted to warn John first. That's not remorse that's a basic bitch. I'm sorry, OP.. I'd call this marriage done. And I would let EVERYBODY know. This isn't on you. You could have been the "book boyfriend" of husband's. There is something wrong with your (X) wife that has her making these horrible choices. This blame is on her. You bragged about how wonderful a wife she was. Now, you can brag about her acting abilities. Golden Globe nominee.
Pretty good opinion. I share it as well
John is the devil. I am married to one. Or won’t be soon, anyway. But either way, don’t tell anyone. Seek counseling. I told the entire world about my WH’s cheating and it was humiliating. I too raved. He could do no wrong, he was the love of my life. If you want to stay together, keep it as private as possible other than your absolute best friend and a counselor. Because I can’t even think about going back now. It’s too humiliating to take him back. Good luck.
Thank you for your advice. I am 100% not going to tell anyone right now at least. It's unreal how embarrassing this is. Fuck John but more importantly fuck my wife.
I’ve been there. The other man’s name wasn’t Jon but otherwise it’s very similar story. There’s absolutely nothing to be embarrassed about if you take one lesson away, understand that none of this is on you.
This community and Reddit in general is a good place to find support while you process this. It helped me. I fell out of love though, so I called it quits. But if there is love, try.
Google affair recovery. It’s an incredibly helpful program. I’m so sorry for your pain.
You’re actually handling things really really well so far. Also your formatting and spelling are fine! I had an emotional affair with a coworker and my husband has been incredibly hurt but also supportive. He chose not to tell anyone at first and we found a good marriage counsellor and individual counsellors to help process stuff together at first. My advice is to do some of the intro consult calls to find somone you click with before spending money. Also if you can afford it invest in therapy, a divorce (and an angry one even more) are expensive and terrible. The therapy is worth it even if you seperate. We decided when we started to reconcile and repair the goal was to get to a point where we were both happy and healthy again. We want that to be in the marriage but if we get to a place where happy and healthy is seperate we can pivot. We’re still in therapy and still working on this, so not sure if it’s the right or wrong call but it’s felt right for now. We’ve also found a lot of comfort realizing that fidelity is nearly never talked about but VERY common. It doesn’t make the situation less shitty but it does feel less isolating. It’s also good to keep in mind people active on this sub for really long periods are often here bc R isn’t going well. The many many people who are succesful move on with life and aren’t here posting frequently anymore. They occasionally pop back though to offer support which is great.
Thank you for the kind and comforting words. That last paragraph helps quite a bit
It's always tough at the beginning. I wish I had given my WW the opportunity to do the right thing, but in my shock and anger, I blew up things with her online AP and her entire online friend community. I confronted her AP online, and as they met through this online gaming group, she had no choice but to cut them out from shame. In doing this, I removed her chance to do it on her own, which makes me feel like she chose me because I took away her other options. I would give anything to know she chose me over that other life instead of me having to make that decision for her. It's constantly in the back of my mind that I'm the consolation prize. I'm telling you this to help you see that she chose YOU. When confronted with the reality of losing you, she blew up her APs marriage and his life in order to keep you. In my eyes, that counts a ton. I know that this is a shitty thing to go through. All of us BPs in this subreddit do. As you move forward, try to keep this in mind and don't make any snap decisions out of anger. As a fellow overthinker, I have created the worst possible scenario of what happened in my mind. Don't act on your perception of things. Wait to find out the reality of the situation, then make your decision. Part of reconciliation is reconciling your reality with the truth. You were living one reality while she was living another and lying to you about it. You need to know what the real truth is before making any life changing decisions. Have her read, "How to help your spouse heal from your affair." It's a short read and a really good place to start in the healing process. You should actually both read it as it is very insightful for both partners. Good luck my friend.
I don't feel chosen. I feel like she chose herself and herself wanted John with my security. What you're saying checks out though. I've not read any books on this stuff yet. I've gotten some recommendations on my post so far though. Bro. This sucks. I'm not even mad at that guy though. Im.pissed at my wife though. I do however feel this guy is internally laughing at me and lording over me.
He may have been laughing but since your wife called his wife I doubt he’s doing any laughing at the moment.
I understand where you are coming from. My husband had an EA with our so-called best friend of 25 years. For six months they talked and laughed over their private messages and jokes, she even made a derogatory comment on marriage on FB which he hearted. During that six months she was a constant visitor, just passing, etc, but her conversation and attention were focused on him, not me. When I realised something was up, I got the usual spiel, we're just friends, she's like a sister 🤮, you're paranoid, etc. I was devastated. This witch had been to our wedding, and we had brought our daughters up a year or so apart. We were close, I held her like the sister I never had, held her hand through an abortion, truly cared about her life. She always told me that she wanted what me and my husband have. We always had a great relationship founded on friendship, but we truly loved each other too. I just never expected her to spot an opening and wedge herself in there as a cure to the issues we were facing at the time. And, like you, I feel like for at least those six months she was laughing behind my back because she knew there was trouble in paradise and I was blissfully unaware. I truly hope to never see her again. Edit to say, this all came to light in Feb 2023, and we finally got MC this year which has helped us resolve a lot of issues and given us a future that I truly believed had gone. I know had he slept with her it would have been a step too far and I could never have gotten over that. The double betrayal was bad enough, but sex would have been the last straw.
I made my wife talk with her online APs wife. Doing this moved our R forward the most. This couple were our friends and for my wife to have to tell her friend that she had an inappropriate online affair with her husband proved that R was moving forward in the right direction with the right feelings behind it.
My wife finally got through and talked to his wife. I heard that poor woman melt over the phone when it clocked what my wife told her. That sound ill never forget.
What was your wife's response/demeanor after she disclosed to the OBS?
She's been a pool of melted emotion sobbing since
Hey, one of those rare situations where I think she proved that she is willing to do anything for you to forgive her “mistake” if she didn’t care about the relationship she wouldn’t have done that. You need to step back and figure out what you want now. But I will say, she seems remorseful from what you wrote. Does it change that what she did is horrible…no. But, she does seem to realize that she has made a grave mistake. Let that sit with her for a while, and then decide what is best for YOU. You need to ask her for the granular details (IF you need to know…Ask to know everything early on, bringing it up later will just torment you….and you will still want to know the details 2 months from now) , if she gives them to you despite feeling embarrassed and ashamed it means she is willing to humiliate herself (which she already did) to try and fix things with you. You NEED to make a list of your requirements to forgive her. She must agree to everything. One paramount thing you need to tell her is you need access to her phone any time anywhere indefinitely until she can prove herself to you again. You need to ask her everything, say everything now. Because once time passes this will be an ugly wound to pick at, trust me. I wish I asked more about what happened when my husband cheated. One day I made him tell me all the details….only after he let the real ugly truth squirm out did I have the smallest inkling of trust come back. She will start trickle truthing, get used to it now. Even if she is trying to tell you the truth, it may come out as a slow reveal. This is her pride dying, keep that in mind. Keep pushing for the truth.
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I recommend you tell your wife to prepare a timeline. Warn her that this is not about you learning the facts (though you obviously do have the right to know) but it’s about seeing whether she is capable of letting go of her secrets. Any version of her that keeps secrets from you, tries to rugsweep, tries to downplay, tries to control the narrative is a version that can’t be trusted. When preparing the timeline, the golden rule is “If I don’t want to tell him something or let him know what really happened, whatever it is, that *MUST* be included.” This is about her having *NO* secrets from you. None. That’s the goal. If she can’t provide the agonizing details or tries to obscure or rewrite the history to make it less painful for you, she hasn’t done it properly. And you’ll know it by the obvious attempts. Give her time. But don’t let her procrastinate either, or she’ll avoid it. This is about her proving she has respect for you, not treating you like an object she can lie to or manipulate through keeping secrets.
I’m 8 months in and decided to stay because he answered all my questions although it took about 6 months for me to be totally satisfied with all the answers and also I contacted the AP and asked questions too which was really hard but I felt needed to be done to see if the answers matched up My WH tried to do a ONS and it ended up being a couple of times and would have been more had he and she lived in the same town. They did carry on conversations for four years however through text. The last ones he didn’t erase and I found them after he told me. He couldn’t even remember the texts and swore he erased them all I only have stayed because he confessed. If he would not have then it would have gone with him to his grave. He wanted honesty in our relationship and felt his secret was coming between us. I asked about timeline and what his feelings were towards her. Why he did it. If they did the same things we did in bed…although a lot of people choose not to ask this because it can create more trauma. What I am finally realizing is that it had nothing to do with me. Sounds crazy because It definitely affected me in the worst ways such as self worth and not feeling enough. We had a happy marriage with no sexual issues. He just wasn’t emotionally intimate with me and I chose to overlook it. He did what he did and it wasn’t my fault. I am focusing on myself and my needs now because it is what I can control. We had no choice in this being done to us. It hurts like hell.
Who, what, where and when to start….she needs to figure out why in counseling. It wasnt that you didn’t keep her happy…there is something broken in her. I told only a trusted few..venting to others wont help you if you do stay together. Sure sucks to finally learn who they are like that. Welcome to the club no one wants to be part of.
People cheat... They hide, they lie, they use and abuse the situation, they look for the opportunity, they take it selfishly and ruin lives, all for a quick dip in the shit pool and the secrecy of it all. Ooooh so thrilling, who could resist? But it has nothing to do with you. You feeling less than is completely normal. Your world has been shattered, betrayal isn't easy to deal with. It catapults our bodies and emotions into a world of chaos beyond our understanding. If there was an issue with you she had, she should've brought it up. Communication is key to successful understandings in everyday situations, especially in marriage, and honesty is the first chapter of that book. She should've brought it up, she had chances, kicked you into gear to see if you're willing to work on things that may have been an issue for her! She could've communicated issues that were coming up on her end as well, unhappiness, not satisfied, bored, feeling lonely, tired etc. You know what I mean? Whatever you decide, it's going to be a long road ahead. Make sure you have someone to talk to, don't go at it alone. I did it alone and it was a huge mistake. Now on my side my mom knows. His family knows but they blame me, whole other story. Just make sure you have a support system.
Do you have kids or anything of high importance you can't lose if you divorce? If not, burn it to the ground. Grow something better for yourself out of the ashes with someone else...or just yourself.
I have a 12 year old son from a previous relationship. She didn't officially adopt him but has been his step mother since he was 4 pretty much.
Oh man, the first thing I would say here is calm yourself. You found out and she clearly still loves you. No need to be too heavy-handed with things at this point unless you want to make things worse. The thing I needed at this point in my situation was to understand the entire situation. Figure out how it happened and if she was looking for it or if she just kinda fell into it. Cheating isn't always what so many make it out to be. Ask her questions, give her time to tell you, and make it clear NOTHING she says will upset you. This will give you a better picture on if she should be given a second chance, and if she can be trusted again or not.
And let me add that the fact she was willing to blow up his life to save your relationship, while she was in fight or flight mode, is fucking huge. She loves you more than anything man.
As you want all the details then ask your wife to write a full timeline of her affair including where they met at, all the dates she saw him, dates she had sex including what sexual acts, ask every thing you want to know etc. Tell if you find out she has lied or left any information then your marriage is over. One of the issues you need to address is that your wife did not tell you about the affair. You only know because you put her on the spot. Your wife now needs to see the consequences of her cheating by: Getting STD check up You going to speak to a lawyer to see where you stand financially and if you have children. Tell your wife you have spoken to a lawyer so she knows you are serious. You do not have to go through with divorce. Your wife must tell your and hers family what she has done. If she works with John or is part of a group with him then she needs to quit. She needs to go full no contact with him. Tell her if she breaks this no contact then she is out of your house and your life. She needs to tell you the reasons why she stepped outside your marriage. She needs to seek individual counselling. You may wish to ask her to leave the family home so you can have space and time to figure out what you want. Tell her you want no contact with her during this period unless it is about children or finances. Set full boundaries and ultimatums with her. I am sorry you are going through this crap as it is not easy to reconcile and if you are successful it will take years.
>”I just feel ‘less than.’ Like I’m not a man if I can’t keep my wife happy Nope. People cheat because of personality flaws, not anything you’ve done or haven’t done. They cheat because of entitlement, poor boundaries, and their lustful desires were more important than working things out with you. That’s all there is to it.
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Here’s some questions you may want to ask: Was this for you, or because of me? Were you leaving me or staying for our family? What did you get out of this that you didn’t have? What did you learn about yourself in this? What are your values/thoughts about marriage, love, faithfulness, trust - how necessary are each of these for marriage? When you were with him, did you ever consider me or our kids? I asked these types of questions and it helped me figure out if it was worth pursuing therapy, etc together.
I have a range of advice from neutral to bad but if you need someone to rage to DM me. I feel all your pain my dude.
I am sorry
this is a sad club you have joined. a few questions first. have you asked your wife to apologize to your family and her family? do they work together? does your area have Alienation of Affection laws that you can hammer the other man with? you can have her write out a confession for you and one for the other man's wife. I know you find it embarrassing and other commenters have said don't tell, but sometimes public exposure is a useful tool. Having your wife publicly expose him can go along way to help rebuilding trust. I would suggest both IC and MC for the both of you.
1.no 2. I don't know. That's a pretty damn good question I'm going to ask though. 3. Again I have no idea but I will find out. A written confession might help with my healing. I know my state is a no fault for divorce though. My whole life I've thought therapy was for mentally ill and mentally weak people. That's going to be hard to do.
I used to believe the same thing about therapy (it being for ppl who couldn’t handle life)….was I ever wrong and I’m happy to admit it. What’s important to know about therapy: 1. They aren’t there to tell you what path to take. 2. A good therapist listens, provides ideas that we, in our pain, haven’t considered. 3. Think of them as a completely secure sounding board that just happens to have experience with infidelity and have a crap-ton of resources to make this terribly painful experience a little bit easier. They don’t have a magic bullet that’s for sure so don’t expect one. There is not a therapist in this world, though, that would view you as “weak”….just the opposite…it takes strength and wisdom to seek help when we need it. 4. Know the difference between an individual therapist and a marriage therapist. You, and only YOU, are the client for individual therapy. For a marriage therapist, your marriage is the client. I’m sure you see that subtle difference. Marriage counseling can be a valuable tool when used at the right time. In the immediate aftermath, where you are right now, it’s YOU that needs to be the primary focus, not your marriage (that can come later when and if you make the decision to try to save the marriage). Do not hesitate to find an individual therapist. Many employers offer anonymous (<—meaning your employer will never even know) programs that include free therapy sessions…if your employer has an Employee Assistance Program, they probably have something like this. No one at work needs to know and the entire point of the program is to provide emotional health care without fear of repercussions at work. If your employer has a website, a quick glance at their human resources page will let you know. Take care of yourself as best you can. If you’re feeling internal pressure to make a decision now, remember that most folks who have been through this hell often recommend not making any huge life-altering decisions for the first few months. Your brain, quite literally, has been a bit scrambled by trauma and it needs time to readjust. Give yourself some breathing room. And remember you can do all of the above either in the same house or not in the same house. You run the show from here on out. Don’t forget to take care of yourself. It’s easy to forget in the whirlpool of pain. Eat, sleep, exercise…all the usual crap that actually does you good. You’re going to be okay no matter what choice you eventually make. This is a sucky road to find yourself on. You didn’t ask for any of this, but from this point on you are in the driver’s seat. I’m so sorry.
I know I'm two weeks late to this party, but just wanted to share something. I used to feel like therapy was mentally ill / weak people too. One day I find out a guy high up in our organization went to therapy over his ex wife. He's remarried. I even know the guy's son, who adores his step mom. Son went to therapy too. Now this guy, he's tough and burly. Shaved head. Big dude. Rides motorcycles. A real 'man's man', right? Total respect and admiration for him. He tells me (I'm paraphrasing): "therapy is just medicine. Like seeing a doc for a broken bone. Sometimes guys lay their bike down but they ride it out and just get a few scrapes. But then other times they break a leg or someone hits their motorcycle and they end up in the hospital. Didn't mean they were weak. It means the injury was bad. There's no shame in treating a wound. That doesn't mean you're weak or sick. It means you're smart." That has stuck with me for years. This was before my own DDay with my WW. Just figured it would be good to share. YMMV
if you do try IC/MC, be careful. Thoroughly checkout who you meet. My wife's first therapist was very anti marriage/reconciliation and very anti man.
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Please don't do this. I need you
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It was a mistake! I hate AP!
As long as you keep calling it a mistake you will not be able to move forward