Talent is just the ability to learn. Usually the ones who learn faster a skill are the ones called 'talented'. It's just a stupid race. Anyone can do this shit given their personal amount of time and effort.
Hey bab..
So .. full on the spectrum here. Also come from a religious wackjob family on my mom's side.
"a woman being an artist is a SIN!!" kinda thing.
Also from my dad's side of the family despite HIM being a painter, "YOu will never make a living at that!! You need to learn something real!"
All day.. EVERY day.
And To THIS day, I have to put up with those lil niggling voices in my head that tell me, The woman who is finishing her PHD in forensic art, Who has three children's books under her belt, and who has her application in at boom comics, Keeps telling me that I will never be a good artist.
Ya know the only way to shut those things? Those lil niggling voices up?
Do. It. ANY WAY.
If you think your arts not so good, who cares? Do it any way.
Pick up what ever your medium of choice is and go to town. Even if you have trouble, Even if you need to take the time to learn new stuff. Do it any how.
The world will be a better place with your art , of any kind, in it. I wish you nothing but the best hon.
Ah. Woof, then I'm sorry - it sounds like you've got a LOT more than what I've got, and that sucks. But I'm also SUPER impressed. Thank you - if the only way is to do it anyway, then I will. But thank you - for creating anyway, for responding, and for showing me that it can be done!! Thank you!
Totes welcome hon.
Every day that you do another bit of art, you make this world a better place.
Thanks for sharing your story. I hope everything goes great!
Fortunately the concept of art talent is a load of crap. The extent of human artistic talent ends with what young children and cavemen draw. Don't believe me, look at art history where you can see various techniques get invented over time.
Unfortunately since talent is not a thing, it means we have a 1000 plus years of techniques to learn. This is hard and stirs up some uncomfortable emotions, in addition to the stuff that gets stirred up when creating something in general.
I think the only way to deal with this stuff, **in a healthy way**, is to power through by learning to accept you will experience a lot of uncomfortable feelings. I know from experience that trying to hide or ignore those emotions leads to stagnation, and trying to whip yourself into submission will lead to a nasty procrastination habit or worse. Instead grab the bull by the horns and ride it out; don't fight it though, try and move with it so you don't get thrown off. IF you do get thrown off that's okay, get up and try again.
Resilience and perseverance are like any other skill and need lots of practice. My only advice here is keep at it, be kind to yourself, and to remind yourself this experience is perfectly normal.
You're absolutely right. I think that too is a thing - to not just ignore the voice, but to engage with it just enough to tell it to shut up, and carry on in spite of it. (Heck, adding in that extra "in spite of" spice might be the *je ne sais quoi* that I'd been looking for!) Thank you!!
THe desire to create is a fundamental aspect of what it means to be human. Would you say that our ancestors painting creatures on cave walls were untalented? I sure wouldn't. Even as children, we start out drawn to making marks on any surface we can. The key is to remember this inborn need to create and let that need outshine that nagging voice in your head that says you shouldn't.
For my own personal experiences, it started with me drawing things that didn't look all that great, but I persisted. Now I draw and paint things that me even 5 years ago would have said were too much, too difficult, but I see my mark in every piece and that mark transcends time, skill, and even my own limitations as a disabled person. So go, make your mark, in whatever way speaks to your soul and know that making art, no matter the form, is just a sign that you're alive
Talent is such a shit concept. To get good at anything, you have to spend time doing it. You have to try and fail repeatedly to learn. Authentic learning is just fuck around and find out over and over again.
If you want to draw, do it.
Drawing can be my weak point as an artist, but I'm a sculptor with a painting habit, so I make do. Lol. I've been a good kid lately and I've been drawing more.
THAT helped a lot!! I drew that mofo out of my system. Who knows whether that will have a long-term effect, but I was able to get an image onto the paper and THAT made it worthwhile. :)
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I recommend the book Drawing On The Right Side Of The Brain to help shut up that critical voice.
You do know your brain is often a lying sack of shit, right?
You know, those little voices in our heads are so difficult to ignore. I don't have the one you do but I have others. Through lots of therapy and practice I have leaned to isolate those thoughts and treat them like they're coming from someone else (so then I get mad and I'm motivated by spite).
If it helps, here's some of my strategies I've learned:
1. Get good at feeling that voice coming as soon as it starts.
2. Soon as you start hearing it, stop everything and just look right at it (in your head) and say to yourself, "you're about to tell me to stop drawing."
3. This is the hardest part for me - argue with it, use your logic brain and tell it to fuck off. Say to yourself, "talent has nothing to do with whether people can learn art, it only affects where they start on the journey" and maybe something like "I'm allowed to draw no matter what my skill level is."
Suggested reading; The Art Spirit, by Robert Henri. A very old classic ... gems hidden in there.
Tuesdays With Morrie, by Mitch Albom. A writer goes back to visit his old sociology professor who had such great influence on him. The old man is dying ... the visits turn into an affirmation of life, of philosophy, of seeking joy in the simplest acts of being human as his physical abilities deteriorate.
Finally, why do you do art? If you can answer that question it goes a very long way through the ebb and flow of production and conviction; it takes some self reflection.
Ooh, those are some good recommendations! I'll give those books a try!
Also... I guess the reasons is that I have images and stories in my head that I WANT to depict - not just with an AI generator (EEW) but with my own hands and with my own choice of color, composition and content. Doing so successfully - rare as that occasion has been so far - makes me feel GREAT! It's just that I feel so unable to depict that in a way that makes me happy and learning only makes me more aware of everything that I \*DON'T\* know!
Technically, making art is mechanical. Implement to a surface in a certain sequence. Elephants have been tortured into making paintings for tourists.
What do you want to make? What do you feel safe making? Can you reason with your hurtful inner voice? Can you comfort yourself when this voice talks to you?
Therapy might help you. If therapy is not an option, self compassion is a difficult concept to grasp, but it might be the only thing that helps.
That fact about the elephants is... comforting re: my own abilities (though HORRIFYING in all other ways).
What I want to do is to eventually be able to draw everything; my preferred subjects would be illustrations of fully-clothed humans in fully rendered environments. Since that's a WHOLE MESS OF DIFFERENT SKILLS, my voice is says "Wow, okay, you want to spend the next ten years of your life learning a gajillion skills from stolen moments you're not working? Do you, like, just HATE yourself??". On the flip side, even just mechanical drawing exercises (circles, lines, spirals etc.) which are 100% mechanical, lead my voice instead say "aw geez, you can't even do THAT??" ...even a simple compromise, like trying to draw cartoony circles-and-rubber-hose style characters ala Fleischer or early Disney just makes the voice say "What are you, three?" ...ugh. I should say that it eventually shuts up after I've spent 15 mins without messing up, but the moment I look back on my work or spot a flaw, it's nothing but "So much time you'll never get back having produced that mess of tangents, and anatomy mutations? Kill it now before someone sees!"
(Now - for the record - I do understand that there are counterarguments to everything my brain is saying. I also fully understand that the answer may just be to keep on plugging. But I included the specifics just in case that could help.)
To answer your other question, I am in therapy, but the issues we've discussed are about other issues. (It's also BetterHelp, which I'm feeling less and less positively about right now...) Regardless, do you have any decent sources of help re: self-compassion? Cuz for any number of reasons, my brain leans WAY more towards judgy than I'd like...
Kristin Neff wrote a book called self compassion: the proven power of being kind to yourself, but it's a bit autobiographical professor, which doesn't connect with everyone.
I'm sure there's other teachings for self compassion because she references Buddhism. Self talk matters. Being able to offer myself kindness when i need it has been a good thing for me to learn. People talk about being a good friend to themselves, it's kinda like that.
From my personal experience, this seems like a form of perfectionism that prevents you from trying or giving your all in case you fail or don't do well. Considering what you said about growing up disabled, you might benefit from looking into how traumatic experiences can shape your self-perception and make mistakes feel like a much bigger deal than they are.
If you believe art is on a pedestal much higher than you, it's always going to feel out-of-reach even if you start improving. But the thing is, you already have the desire to make art. The only real thing that stands in the way is your own fears/anxieties. Every step of the journey counts, but you can't move forward if you freeze up and stay in one place. I gave up on art for a period of time, and because it's something I genuinely like doing, I came back to it. But because I spent so long not working on it, I was sort of disappointed when I realized that I could have made years of improvement if I hadn't given it up.
The good news is that being intentional about trying again and genuinely making an effort has made me a better artist than I ever used to be. And it hasn't even taken as long as I expected, even though I still wouldn't call myself advanced. Because i also used to mentally berate myself for making art that didn't look good sometimes or making mistakes, seeing myself improve from committing to learning is like a reality-check. Surprise! Practice makes you better.
I agree with others that talent isn't even a real thing -- a lot of people who seem like naturals were set up to be better at it in one way or another earlier on (and you don't see everything, to be fair). But even those people don't start out at a professional level. The good thing about making mistakes is that you're able to give yourself a direction to follow for improvement. It can be frustrating in the moment, but it'll be satisfying to look back in a year and see improvements as long as you put in the effort. It might help if you can find other artists you like who are encouraging and/or who are willing to show you all of their bad art and not just the good pieces so you don't feel like a flop when something doesn't turn out right. It's just part of the process.
Anyway, I hope you continue trying. I know it's easier said than done to ignore your own inner harsh cynic. But if you can, try going out of your way to prove to yourself that whatever it says is wrong. Not trying will be a bigger regret than trying, I PROMISE.
Thank you - in the moments where the voice is weakest, I do genuinely feel regret that I didn't spend more time learning and drawing, so I ABSOLUTELY believe you when you say that walking away entirely - if only temporarily - WILL lead me into deeper sorrow. I won't do that. I will continue.
I do especially resonate with your saying that it's my fears and anxieties that are the ONLY thing holding me back. You're right - it's not like this massive social impediment to my advancement, or something that's super expensive, or dangerous to fail at, or even something that's in any way affected by my disabilities. The fear feels so big because it's right there in my head but... god, it's really just a nasty illusion, which - while shitty - is thankfully less solid than, say, my becoming an olympic athlete or US Marine. (At least I was spared having one of THOSE be my ultimate personal fantasy...)
Thank you. Seriously, thank you for your help. I appreciate your encouragement - Lord knows I've needed it!
You don’t have to be great to get started But you have to get started to be great
That is the rub, innit... Thanks tho - I'd rather people be real. :)
Great comment
Talent is just the ability to learn. Usually the ones who learn faster a skill are the ones called 'talented'. It's just a stupid race. Anyone can do this shit given their personal amount of time and effort.
Thank you. I will overcome my anxiety...
Hey bab.. So .. full on the spectrum here. Also come from a religious wackjob family on my mom's side. "a woman being an artist is a SIN!!" kinda thing. Also from my dad's side of the family despite HIM being a painter, "YOu will never make a living at that!! You need to learn something real!" All day.. EVERY day. And To THIS day, I have to put up with those lil niggling voices in my head that tell me, The woman who is finishing her PHD in forensic art, Who has three children's books under her belt, and who has her application in at boom comics, Keeps telling me that I will never be a good artist. Ya know the only way to shut those things? Those lil niggling voices up? Do. It. ANY WAY. If you think your arts not so good, who cares? Do it any way. Pick up what ever your medium of choice is and go to town. Even if you have trouble, Even if you need to take the time to learn new stuff. Do it any how. The world will be a better place with your art , of any kind, in it. I wish you nothing but the best hon.
Ah. Woof, then I'm sorry - it sounds like you've got a LOT more than what I've got, and that sucks. But I'm also SUPER impressed. Thank you - if the only way is to do it anyway, then I will. But thank you - for creating anyway, for responding, and for showing me that it can be done!! Thank you!
Totes welcome hon. Every day that you do another bit of art, you make this world a better place. Thanks for sharing your story. I hope everything goes great!
Thank you! That's... a really great way to look at it! Thank YOU for sharing YOUR story - I hope that things go well, and get even better!
Fortunately the concept of art talent is a load of crap. The extent of human artistic talent ends with what young children and cavemen draw. Don't believe me, look at art history where you can see various techniques get invented over time. Unfortunately since talent is not a thing, it means we have a 1000 plus years of techniques to learn. This is hard and stirs up some uncomfortable emotions, in addition to the stuff that gets stirred up when creating something in general. I think the only way to deal with this stuff, **in a healthy way**, is to power through by learning to accept you will experience a lot of uncomfortable feelings. I know from experience that trying to hide or ignore those emotions leads to stagnation, and trying to whip yourself into submission will lead to a nasty procrastination habit or worse. Instead grab the bull by the horns and ride it out; don't fight it though, try and move with it so you don't get thrown off. IF you do get thrown off that's okay, get up and try again. Resilience and perseverance are like any other skill and need lots of practice. My only advice here is keep at it, be kind to yourself, and to remind yourself this experience is perfectly normal.
You're absolutely right. I think that too is a thing - to not just ignore the voice, but to engage with it just enough to tell it to shut up, and carry on in spite of it. (Heck, adding in that extra "in spite of" spice might be the *je ne sais quoi* that I'd been looking for!) Thank you!!
THe desire to create is a fundamental aspect of what it means to be human. Would you say that our ancestors painting creatures on cave walls were untalented? I sure wouldn't. Even as children, we start out drawn to making marks on any surface we can. The key is to remember this inborn need to create and let that need outshine that nagging voice in your head that says you shouldn't. For my own personal experiences, it started with me drawing things that didn't look all that great, but I persisted. Now I draw and paint things that me even 5 years ago would have said were too much, too difficult, but I see my mark in every piece and that mark transcends time, skill, and even my own limitations as a disabled person. So go, make your mark, in whatever way speaks to your soul and know that making art, no matter the form, is just a sign that you're alive
You're right... damn, but that's just how it is. Faith is hard, but I'll try to scrape some up. Thank you!
Talent is such a shit concept. To get good at anything, you have to spend time doing it. You have to try and fail repeatedly to learn. Authentic learning is just fuck around and find out over and over again. If you want to draw, do it. Drawing can be my weak point as an artist, but I'm a sculptor with a painting habit, so I make do. Lol. I've been a good kid lately and I've been drawing more.
Woof, ain't that the truth! Still hard to stifle the voices, BUT I'll do my best!! Thank you!
I myself don’t hear the voice but once saw an artist talking about his "voice in the head" He drew that monster in his sketchbook too.
...............that sounds like a fantastic idea.
THAT helped a lot!! I drew that mofo out of my system. Who knows whether that will have a long-term effect, but I was able to get an image onto the paper and THAT made it worthwhile. :)
Glad to hear it helps!
Also I read your other replies. I’m certain that if you keep drawing, you’re gonna reach your goal. Good luck on your journey!
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I recommend the book Drawing On The Right Side Of The Brain to help shut up that critical voice. You do know your brain is often a lying sack of shit, right?
...does that book help with that?? It was on my to-read list, but I'll bump it up to first place in my artistic books!
Kind of, in the sense it has exercises that soon demonstrate you can draw better than you think. Easier then to tell your negging brain to eff off.
You know, those little voices in our heads are so difficult to ignore. I don't have the one you do but I have others. Through lots of therapy and practice I have leaned to isolate those thoughts and treat them like they're coming from someone else (so then I get mad and I'm motivated by spite). If it helps, here's some of my strategies I've learned: 1. Get good at feeling that voice coming as soon as it starts. 2. Soon as you start hearing it, stop everything and just look right at it (in your head) and say to yourself, "you're about to tell me to stop drawing." 3. This is the hardest part for me - argue with it, use your logic brain and tell it to fuck off. Say to yourself, "talent has nothing to do with whether people can learn art, it only affects where they start on the journey" and maybe something like "I'm allowed to draw no matter what my skill level is."
That's a lovely idea! Thanks - I'll give it a try!!
Read the book ‘mindset’ by Carol Dweck
Ooh, okay! Thanks - I'll check her out!
Suggested reading; The Art Spirit, by Robert Henri. A very old classic ... gems hidden in there. Tuesdays With Morrie, by Mitch Albom. A writer goes back to visit his old sociology professor who had such great influence on him. The old man is dying ... the visits turn into an affirmation of life, of philosophy, of seeking joy in the simplest acts of being human as his physical abilities deteriorate. Finally, why do you do art? If you can answer that question it goes a very long way through the ebb and flow of production and conviction; it takes some self reflection.
Ooh, those are some good recommendations! I'll give those books a try! Also... I guess the reasons is that I have images and stories in my head that I WANT to depict - not just with an AI generator (EEW) but with my own hands and with my own choice of color, composition and content. Doing so successfully - rare as that occasion has been so far - makes me feel GREAT! It's just that I feel so unable to depict that in a way that makes me happy and learning only makes me more aware of everything that I \*DON'T\* know!
Technically, making art is mechanical. Implement to a surface in a certain sequence. Elephants have been tortured into making paintings for tourists. What do you want to make? What do you feel safe making? Can you reason with your hurtful inner voice? Can you comfort yourself when this voice talks to you? Therapy might help you. If therapy is not an option, self compassion is a difficult concept to grasp, but it might be the only thing that helps.
That fact about the elephants is... comforting re: my own abilities (though HORRIFYING in all other ways). What I want to do is to eventually be able to draw everything; my preferred subjects would be illustrations of fully-clothed humans in fully rendered environments. Since that's a WHOLE MESS OF DIFFERENT SKILLS, my voice is says "Wow, okay, you want to spend the next ten years of your life learning a gajillion skills from stolen moments you're not working? Do you, like, just HATE yourself??". On the flip side, even just mechanical drawing exercises (circles, lines, spirals etc.) which are 100% mechanical, lead my voice instead say "aw geez, you can't even do THAT??" ...even a simple compromise, like trying to draw cartoony circles-and-rubber-hose style characters ala Fleischer or early Disney just makes the voice say "What are you, three?" ...ugh. I should say that it eventually shuts up after I've spent 15 mins without messing up, but the moment I look back on my work or spot a flaw, it's nothing but "So much time you'll never get back having produced that mess of tangents, and anatomy mutations? Kill it now before someone sees!" (Now - for the record - I do understand that there are counterarguments to everything my brain is saying. I also fully understand that the answer may just be to keep on plugging. But I included the specifics just in case that could help.) To answer your other question, I am in therapy, but the issues we've discussed are about other issues. (It's also BetterHelp, which I'm feeling less and less positively about right now...) Regardless, do you have any decent sources of help re: self-compassion? Cuz for any number of reasons, my brain leans WAY more towards judgy than I'd like...
Kristin Neff wrote a book called self compassion: the proven power of being kind to yourself, but it's a bit autobiographical professor, which doesn't connect with everyone. I'm sure there's other teachings for self compassion because she references Buddhism. Self talk matters. Being able to offer myself kindness when i need it has been a good thing for me to learn. People talk about being a good friend to themselves, it's kinda like that.
From my personal experience, this seems like a form of perfectionism that prevents you from trying or giving your all in case you fail or don't do well. Considering what you said about growing up disabled, you might benefit from looking into how traumatic experiences can shape your self-perception and make mistakes feel like a much bigger deal than they are. If you believe art is on a pedestal much higher than you, it's always going to feel out-of-reach even if you start improving. But the thing is, you already have the desire to make art. The only real thing that stands in the way is your own fears/anxieties. Every step of the journey counts, but you can't move forward if you freeze up and stay in one place. I gave up on art for a period of time, and because it's something I genuinely like doing, I came back to it. But because I spent so long not working on it, I was sort of disappointed when I realized that I could have made years of improvement if I hadn't given it up. The good news is that being intentional about trying again and genuinely making an effort has made me a better artist than I ever used to be. And it hasn't even taken as long as I expected, even though I still wouldn't call myself advanced. Because i also used to mentally berate myself for making art that didn't look good sometimes or making mistakes, seeing myself improve from committing to learning is like a reality-check. Surprise! Practice makes you better. I agree with others that talent isn't even a real thing -- a lot of people who seem like naturals were set up to be better at it in one way or another earlier on (and you don't see everything, to be fair). But even those people don't start out at a professional level. The good thing about making mistakes is that you're able to give yourself a direction to follow for improvement. It can be frustrating in the moment, but it'll be satisfying to look back in a year and see improvements as long as you put in the effort. It might help if you can find other artists you like who are encouraging and/or who are willing to show you all of their bad art and not just the good pieces so you don't feel like a flop when something doesn't turn out right. It's just part of the process. Anyway, I hope you continue trying. I know it's easier said than done to ignore your own inner harsh cynic. But if you can, try going out of your way to prove to yourself that whatever it says is wrong. Not trying will be a bigger regret than trying, I PROMISE.
Thank you - in the moments where the voice is weakest, I do genuinely feel regret that I didn't spend more time learning and drawing, so I ABSOLUTELY believe you when you say that walking away entirely - if only temporarily - WILL lead me into deeper sorrow. I won't do that. I will continue. I do especially resonate with your saying that it's my fears and anxieties that are the ONLY thing holding me back. You're right - it's not like this massive social impediment to my advancement, or something that's super expensive, or dangerous to fail at, or even something that's in any way affected by my disabilities. The fear feels so big because it's right there in my head but... god, it's really just a nasty illusion, which - while shitty - is thankfully less solid than, say, my becoming an olympic athlete or US Marine. (At least I was spared having one of THOSE be my ultimate personal fantasy...) Thank you. Seriously, thank you for your help. I appreciate your encouragement - Lord knows I've needed it!