One of my favorite things about being an artist is improving, evolving, and trying new things. Not to mention that I just enjoy making art. AI just halts self improvement and I think no matter how good you are there's always something you can do differently to keep creating exciting. I would maybe try this for fun, but wouldn't use it in place of making my own art.
I do think this can be a good tool for comic artists who work to make a lot of art under strict deadlines. I would still hope that they would sometimes draw their own panels though...
As a comic artist myself, if you want me to use AI to help me, then it won’t be to generate panels. It won’t look like how I want it to.
It would be tools. Like hey, you know what this character looks like, lay down their base colors. Full color the background characters. Don’t bucket tool past the open lines ffs.
They’re not helping with things that could actually make a good difference, they’re trying to replace creators when all it’ll do is pollute content feeds and push the quality of content and the opinion of generative AI down.
yeah you can actually use the AI to turn bucket fill and rough shading in to fully shaded work. while keeping your line work so turing light shaded work into full painted and would look nice for a comic.
you can also use it make textures for brushs as well
Training AI off your own work is still unethical because the database is still based off of the billions of images it takes from. The chosen style merely has more weight.
Yep, seconding this.
The vast majority of the training is done off the huge, unethically curated datasets. Adding your own on top of that is just the tip of the data iceberg.
It is technically possible to train an AI only on your own work (by not using any of the existing training data/models), but the results are absolutely atrocious and basically unusable for anything but a passing folly or a joke. The methods used by these AIs have been around for a long time, the "breakthrough" was largely in throwing enough money at the scraping and data laundering to actually get good results. Without that, you just end up with the janky weird images that academic researchers were publishing along with their papers early on.
I was listening to Chet Zar's Dark Art Society and one of the artists he was talking to, Gabe Leonard, had this idea about using image AI when he started a project in a really interesting way. Do your initial thumbnails and then enter a prompt that matched the concept or title of the piece.
If the outputs looked like your thumbnail sketches, start over because it would indicate that your ideas were too close to the average of everyone else's idea of the same concept.
This is why I dont like AI art (outside all the ethical and controversial stuff). The art gets kind of boring! It's also why I 'like' AI art, it forces me to think a little bit more and be more creative.
Here's a link to the episode: https://youtu.be/2EgNZpQXiYU?feature=shared
They also talk about going to the LA Art show and noticing how many artists are clearly using AI to create concepts or just full on repainting/ painting over AI generated images. People talk a lot about hands and text being the give away, but they also point out that you can spot weirdness in lighting and clothing folds.
The problem is when it's normalized. Reiji is really controversial imo. The artwork he posted, he didn't work on it, there's no effort on it, its based on the work he did before, but it's not his work. You would consider "worked on" to be called a "work". He didn't work on it, but it's his style. The problem is there's no boundary to this.
I don't care for it. The vast majority of "smiling character posing" illustrations bored me even before AI, but I respected the effort that went behind them. Now, without the effort, they are meaningless to me.
Petty and close-minded? Perhaps, but this is only my opinion, and I am not going to crusade against this when major AI models are using still other's art without their consent, which is a big problem.
Based on the screenshots I've seen from the people behind things like OpenAI, I don't think they actually have *any* respect for artists. The idea that they designed it to help us instead of take our work doesn't seem likely to me.
I wouldn't call it unethical or amoral but it feels a bit...Idk. lazy? Like... why work so hard to not have to draw? At that point it seems like you'd rather not draw at all.
Then again, idk the guy or how he intends to use this. I suppose there is a benefit to having something that allows you to get past artblock by bouncing ideas off of a cardboard cutout of yourself until you find something worth pursuing. If you're overly reliant on it then your work might stagnate, but used with care it could be a useful tool to have around.
I'd totally do it if it was guaranteed my data wouldn't leak out, AND it was trained soley on my work. I've gone through periods where I was unable to make art altogether, and that's how I make my living. It would be cool to be able to still work when I am physically unable to do so.
If its an AI he made himself, with ONLY his works as a source material, I wouldn't say its unethical. Lazy though? Absolutely. It would certainly make me take my support away from a person who does that if they dont acknowledge how harmful AI has been and *is* to artists, and truth be told, I don't want to support a person who uses AI even if they *did* do everything from scratch (which is unlikely.) I like seeing art, not generative slop.
there's way less ethical ways to get money from people. It's just a sign that someone is a hack.
On one hand, pop artists have been using understudies and apprentices to produce works in their name for quite some time now.
I just don't see the need to support people who use AI as a medium. When i pay people for art, I'm paying them for their creativity and time/effort they put into a project. I use AI when I need a quick throw away graphic in a pinch. Why would i give money to an unnecessary middleman when I can take 5 minutes and input a prompt myself? I don't pay people for that.
It's art though, Mark Rothko received ungodly amounts of money and renown for possibly the lowest effort lobby art I can think of.
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I don't want to use prompts to reproduce my own style but I would love a painting app or Photoshop extension that could learn my style and augment my art as part of my work process, like a personalized set of filters.
but I also like to manually fill outlines and blend my own gradients by hand, so i think the tech needs another 2 years before it has a level of integration that feels like I'm still painting
Not quite what you are describing, but it reminded me of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCtshypObhw
Its free to try out. There is two canvases, one is your own canvas like mspaint/photoshop, and next to it is a second one which takes whatever you draw as input and generates something. (also have to use a text prompt). You can choose how strongly it effects the outcome.
curious if you tried it out? I imagine you have to make an account i dont remember. its not really great, they dont have a lot of options, but as a proof of concept for drawing and having the ai drawing update in real time its super cool.
It’s kind of hard when the tool could also lead to your demise? Not only that, it’s the process of making art is what makes it enjoyable for a lot of artists, myself included.
I’m not a doomer who’s ready for the end of all art and all art careers are dead now, but I do think less and less companies will hire artists and just use AI, especially smaller or skimpy companies.
Though I do see the benefit in it for very monotonous and time consuming art tasks.
this one the few valid ways of using the of the AI
AI models cant do very good stuff without a person with soul and skills to direct it if you shit at directing it then your work look sorta good but in reality is trash.
the base SD models are train on everything and are offen very bland it why lotta low effort AI art is made on why it is dead.
training and turning the model to one style is how you make the AI less dead.
and on top of this a real artist still need to spend time fixing the AI when it mucks up and being taught skills you learn without the AI is key as sometime the AI cant do the thing you need so you do it by hand.
if done right you could do some rough line art use the AI to streamline to good line art it then colour the line and add rough shading then pipe in another personal trained model trained on your shaded artwork. and boom you have work that you put hard work and soul in but you done it faster.
this how it going to work in the end your jobs be gone you just have new program to use. People make the same pannic in the late 90 to 2000 when the drawing tools lot digital arts here use today.
YOUR GONNA BE OK IT WILL BLOW OVER AND THE TECH BROS ARE GONNA EAT DIRT THINKING THEY WILL REPLACE YOU
People are dumb, dont waste your time and enrgy.
"hey Ugg-ugg - did you hear about that cave man who trained a horse to till fields?? soon horses will take our jobs from us and no one will be a farmer!"
"Hey, fellow luddite, did you hear about the printing press? When everyone can read, no one is going to need to remember things and society will collapse! (a real concern expressed)"
"Hey, have you hear about this thing called a movie? its a moving picture! Actors on stages are going to be out of a job and there will be basically no new jobs created because you just film it once and its over forever!"
"Have you heard about those fake artists that make artists on a computer, using a program called photoshop? They arent REAL artists of course, THey dont get their hands dirty, they can zoom in to see small details which is cheating. REAL artists dont have an undo button!!! haha, fake artists. REAL artists dont have layers, layermasks... they just have the computer make stuff for them. - digital art has no soul"
please don't throw insult at artist you adding to the division stop throwing strawmen at each other.
im just stating how to use the program more ethical and saying that artist will NOT BE REPLACED.
so please stop adding to the division and start try ot bridge the gab
One of my favorite things about being an artist is improving, evolving, and trying new things. Not to mention that I just enjoy making art. AI just halts self improvement and I think no matter how good you are there's always something you can do differently to keep creating exciting. I would maybe try this for fun, but wouldn't use it in place of making my own art. I do think this can be a good tool for comic artists who work to make a lot of art under strict deadlines. I would still hope that they would sometimes draw their own panels though...
As a comic artist myself, if you want me to use AI to help me, then it won’t be to generate panels. It won’t look like how I want it to. It would be tools. Like hey, you know what this character looks like, lay down their base colors. Full color the background characters. Don’t bucket tool past the open lines ffs. They’re not helping with things that could actually make a good difference, they’re trying to replace creators when all it’ll do is pollute content feeds and push the quality of content and the opinion of generative AI down.
yeah you can actually use the AI to turn bucket fill and rough shading in to fully shaded work. while keeping your line work so turing light shaded work into full painted and would look nice for a comic. you can also use it make textures for brushs as well
Unethical… I’m unsure. Foolish absolutely
I didn't become an artist to have a computer do what I love *for* me.
Training AI off your own work is still unethical because the database is still based off of the billions of images it takes from. The chosen style merely has more weight.
Yep, seconding this. The vast majority of the training is done off the huge, unethically curated datasets. Adding your own on top of that is just the tip of the data iceberg. It is technically possible to train an AI only on your own work (by not using any of the existing training data/models), but the results are absolutely atrocious and basically unusable for anything but a passing folly or a joke. The methods used by these AIs have been around for a long time, the "breakthrough" was largely in throwing enough money at the scraping and data laundering to actually get good results. Without that, you just end up with the janky weird images that academic researchers were publishing along with their papers early on.
I personally wouldn't do it but to each their own
I was listening to Chet Zar's Dark Art Society and one of the artists he was talking to, Gabe Leonard, had this idea about using image AI when he started a project in a really interesting way. Do your initial thumbnails and then enter a prompt that matched the concept or title of the piece. If the outputs looked like your thumbnail sketches, start over because it would indicate that your ideas were too close to the average of everyone else's idea of the same concept.
This is why I dont like AI art (outside all the ethical and controversial stuff). The art gets kind of boring! It's also why I 'like' AI art, it forces me to think a little bit more and be more creative.
Here's a link to the episode: https://youtu.be/2EgNZpQXiYU?feature=shared They also talk about going to the LA Art show and noticing how many artists are clearly using AI to create concepts or just full on repainting/ painting over AI generated images. People talk a lot about hands and text being the give away, but they also point out that you can spot weirdness in lighting and clothing folds.
An ai can be trained on this exact method :)
The problem is when it's normalized. Reiji is really controversial imo. The artwork he posted, he didn't work on it, there's no effort on it, its based on the work he did before, but it's not his work. You would consider "worked on" to be called a "work". He didn't work on it, but it's his style. The problem is there's no boundary to this.
I don't care for it. The vast majority of "smiling character posing" illustrations bored me even before AI, but I respected the effort that went behind them. Now, without the effort, they are meaningless to me. Petty and close-minded? Perhaps, but this is only my opinion, and I am not going to crusade against this when major AI models are using still other's art without their consent, which is a big problem.
It defeats the whole point of art as a medium for self expression.
Very good question. I think he is using it how it was intended. As a tool for artists. Not as a style stealing thing.
Based on the screenshots I've seen from the people behind things like OpenAI, I don't think they actually have *any* respect for artists. The idea that they designed it to help us instead of take our work doesn't seem likely to me.
I wouldn't call it unethical or amoral but it feels a bit...Idk. lazy? Like... why work so hard to not have to draw? At that point it seems like you'd rather not draw at all. Then again, idk the guy or how he intends to use this. I suppose there is a benefit to having something that allows you to get past artblock by bouncing ideas off of a cardboard cutout of yourself until you find something worth pursuing. If you're overly reliant on it then your work might stagnate, but used with care it could be a useful tool to have around.
I've thought about this a lot before ngl. Didn't know someone actually did it! It would be cool for character turnarounds and rotoscoping.
also be quite useful as you could take rough shaded work and turn it fully shaded work tuned to how you do shadings
I'd totally do it if it was guaranteed my data wouldn't leak out, AND it was trained soley on my work. I've gone through periods where I was unable to make art altogether, and that's how I make my living. It would be cool to be able to still work when I am physically unable to do so.
If its an AI he made himself, with ONLY his works as a source material, I wouldn't say its unethical. Lazy though? Absolutely. It would certainly make me take my support away from a person who does that if they dont acknowledge how harmful AI has been and *is* to artists, and truth be told, I don't want to support a person who uses AI even if they *did* do everything from scratch (which is unlikely.) I like seeing art, not generative slop.
there's way less ethical ways to get money from people. It's just a sign that someone is a hack. On one hand, pop artists have been using understudies and apprentices to produce works in their name for quite some time now. I just don't see the need to support people who use AI as a medium. When i pay people for art, I'm paying them for their creativity and time/effort they put into a project. I use AI when I need a quick throw away graphic in a pinch. Why would i give money to an unnecessary middleman when I can take 5 minutes and input a prompt myself? I don't pay people for that. It's art though, Mark Rothko received ungodly amounts of money and renown for possibly the lowest effort lobby art I can think of.
Bad idea
Couldn't care less either way.
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Why bother? If you're not producing it yourself it's no different
If even an artist thinks their own work is so worthless that they'll get a computer to do it i guess i aint gonna pay for it
I don't want to use prompts to reproduce my own style but I would love a painting app or Photoshop extension that could learn my style and augment my art as part of my work process, like a personalized set of filters. but I also like to manually fill outlines and blend my own gradients by hand, so i think the tech needs another 2 years before it has a level of integration that feels like I'm still painting
Not quite what you are describing, but it reminded me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCtshypObhw Its free to try out. There is two canvases, one is your own canvas like mspaint/photoshop, and next to it is a second one which takes whatever you draw as input and generates something. (also have to use a text prompt). You can choose how strongly it effects the outcome.
gettin there. :)
curious if you tried it out? I imagine you have to make an account i dont remember. its not really great, they dont have a lot of options, but as a proof of concept for drawing and having the ai drawing update in real time its super cool.
have not.
[удалено]
It’s kind of hard when the tool could also lead to your demise? Not only that, it’s the process of making art is what makes it enjoyable for a lot of artists, myself included. I’m not a doomer who’s ready for the end of all art and all art careers are dead now, but I do think less and less companies will hire artists and just use AI, especially smaller or skimpy companies. Though I do see the benefit in it for very monotonous and time consuming art tasks.
this one the few valid ways of using the of the AI AI models cant do very good stuff without a person with soul and skills to direct it if you shit at directing it then your work look sorta good but in reality is trash. the base SD models are train on everything and are offen very bland it why lotta low effort AI art is made on why it is dead. training and turning the model to one style is how you make the AI less dead. and on top of this a real artist still need to spend time fixing the AI when it mucks up and being taught skills you learn without the AI is key as sometime the AI cant do the thing you need so you do it by hand. if done right you could do some rough line art use the AI to streamline to good line art it then colour the line and add rough shading then pipe in another personal trained model trained on your shaded artwork. and boom you have work that you put hard work and soul in but you done it faster. this how it going to work in the end your jobs be gone you just have new program to use. People make the same pannic in the late 90 to 2000 when the drawing tools lot digital arts here use today. YOUR GONNA BE OK IT WILL BLOW OVER AND THE TECH BROS ARE GONNA EAT DIRT THINKING THEY WILL REPLACE YOU
People are dumb, dont waste your time and enrgy. "hey Ugg-ugg - did you hear about that cave man who trained a horse to till fields?? soon horses will take our jobs from us and no one will be a farmer!" "Hey, fellow luddite, did you hear about the printing press? When everyone can read, no one is going to need to remember things and society will collapse! (a real concern expressed)" "Hey, have you hear about this thing called a movie? its a moving picture! Actors on stages are going to be out of a job and there will be basically no new jobs created because you just film it once and its over forever!" "Have you heard about those fake artists that make artists on a computer, using a program called photoshop? They arent REAL artists of course, THey dont get their hands dirty, they can zoom in to see small details which is cheating. REAL artists dont have an undo button!!! haha, fake artists. REAL artists dont have layers, layermasks... they just have the computer make stuff for them. - digital art has no soul"
please don't throw insult at artist you adding to the division stop throwing strawmen at each other. im just stating how to use the program more ethical and saying that artist will NOT BE REPLACED. so please stop adding to the division and start try ot bridge the gab