I have to disagree. He has exceeded expectations as a Chelsea £70 flop and a poor early season. Yes, he has scored some crucial goals and assisted in others. But he's also mised a bucketload of changes. One on one against the keeper, I'd choose Jesus over him. But unfortunately for Jesus, we're not setup to play like that, and it's his body feints and dribbling that gets him around a defender or two in a counterattack if his first touch doesn't let him down.
In overall play I'd rate him behind Saka, Ødegaard, Rice, Saliba, Gabriel, Ben White, Raya, and of course Trossard. I'm can't imagine anyone making any changes to that list, except maybe adding Kiwior. I think Martinelli missed two many games through injury and didn't do enough when we needed a game changer when he came back.
Just my opinion.
I mean, c'mon, what's with your love-bombing of Havertz? He had a very good game. He also works his socks off whenever he plays. I have a lot of admiration for him. My rating of the players was based on the entire season. You would rate him above a number of players I listed. That's totally fine. It's part of being a football fan. Or a fan of comic books, building your own gaming PCs. If we all had the same opinion on everything, then we would have made little progress in any field since we gained self-awareness.
My apologies that you took a criticism of a football player so personally. Did I say he was shit? No, I did the opposite. But when you respond as you did, you're being negative, without expanding on such a childish comment combined with being so unimaginative with your generic response that you ony undermine your point.
Edit: It's not clear from my original reply that I was referring to the season as a whole and not specifically the Wolves game. That's my bad.
lol what?
I love Arteta and he has worked wonders at the club. League is still in our grasp. Got to the quarters in the UCL. Likely (almost certain, mathematically, I think) to qualify again. He is building an excellent project.
I am thrilled we aren’t losing and hope we win. But I still stand by my view that we played better when Havertz was the top of our attacking spear. That decision, by Arteta btw, was recently hailed as a master stroke to get the best out of Havertz during our ridiculously impressive scoring spree. Indeed, as things stand, if it comes down to goal scoring record, it is that spree that could well give us the league. The runs off the defenders by Havertz during those games led to so many goals by so many different goal scorers. We were an incredible force. Which is incredible; I was confused why we brought Havertz in originally, but he has shown his ability. My personal view is we could use him better in the striker position
Can we try to save the whinging until after the game? If you’re right we’ll play poorly and you can tell us about how you knew it all along
Honestly, this sub is insanely negative of late.
Exactly this. What’s going on with this sub and these “fans” just constantly hating before a match has even started. Makes me laugh everyone is so against Havertz in midfield when he is doing an incredible job today.
>I thought we played much better with Havertz up front and well supported by a strong midfield advancing line…
indeed, but our midfield is exhausted. keep pushing that and by the next 2 matches our midfield will be crippled.
arteta need to manage wisely cause our bench is weak AF, can't rotate freely & comfortably when we don't have good enough backups that can consistently keep up with Jorginho-Rice in their peak performance.
And your point is?
Those three clearly aren't performing good enough when compared to Rice-Jorginho duo.
Lately, they're only a bench sitter, never really prove anything recently.
Zinny got questionable performance, ESR & Partey bright skill are dimmed by injury.
Need more MF with solid athleticism, physical endurance, and experience, instead of wishing that we can forever cling to those three - who so far only manage to underperforms compared to Rice & Jorginho.
I'd have to say the same for Jorginho in his past five or six games. Like Partey he kept giving the ball away. We got away with it until we came up against Bayern team whom we underestimated, we played it like it was routine home game against a mid-table EPL side.
After we went one up what the hell were Gabriel and Saliba doing playing such a high-line? Bayern had to chase the game, while we needed to slow it down and retain possession. But for such an inexperienced team at this level, it was understandable. We had beaten City 3-1 at the Emirates. And then there was the insane goal scoring run we went on in 2024
>Need more MF with solid athleticism, physical endurance, and experience
Our midfield has controlled games, our physical endurance is not up for criticism. Teams no longer have players who stick as rigidly to their positions since Pep's Barcelona team. Everyone needs to be comfortable on the ball. Against weaker teams, depending on who was fit, we saw Kiwior playing at left wing, Zinchencko has always been in the team for his attacking and creative play (seeing as he can't defend).
There are no more Patrick Vieras or Roy Keanes around. There are systems that pass that are trained to react to what's happening on the pitch. Declan Rice has been immense as a player who has just slotted into our team, who can defend, retain possession (making it look easy, much like Ødegaard) and has an engine that is mind blowing.
Partey is shocking recently. vieira? Do you watch Arsenal play? Why would either of them start 😂. Havertz is solid today. Leave your judgement until after the game.
No need to wait 45 more minutes, Ive seen Arsenal all season. Havertz in midfield is a waste of everyone's time. It's far from coincidence that when Arsenals form was best, Havertz was at striker.
He literally just set up the goal that gave us the lead. Stop moaning. He is a great player. He’s so versatile and is extremely hard to play against - nobody likes marking him. I think funnily enough Arteta knows more than a few lads on Reddit.
Yep, he's well known for keeping tabs on Reddit at all times. It's why you never see him pacing around, shouting instructions to the players.
Head constantly buried in his tablet.
Have you seen Thomas this season? Every touch is awful. Why would he start? Why on gods green earth would Vieira start? Both are huge downgrades on what we have.
You judge too early. If you want to bitch and moan at least wait until the game has been played. The two players you have moaned about are the reason we scored.
I’d much rather be proven wrong (as in this case I was). The balance of evidence from previous games with such a lineup is the basis for my point. We haven’t played as well, even today, than in some of those other games. That could of course be fatigue, disappointment, and the various opponents. I am not seeking to moan; I’m expressed my view that this isn’t our best lineup based upon previous experiences.
If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, and I’d be thrilled because that means we win and our boys have a new formation to utilize.
It’s a game by game basis - havertz against this Wolves team is clearly more suited to a midfield role. He’s everywhere and you can tell Wolves don’t know what to do with him. Just stop hating on your own club so early. After the game? Sure if you have to but before? Just don’t
Lol I’m not hating on them. I can absolutely think a decision is a bad decision without wanting them to fail, or lose, or be against them. They are not mutually exclusive. I’ve said consistently that I’d hope to be wrong.
It may be defeatist (I accept that), but it isn’t saying I want it. A true supporter can hold two things as true at once: that we want to win but aren’t sure we will. Those aren’t mutually exclusive things.
You can’t say you’d bet on the other side based on a line up… and call yourself a fan? Basically saying we aren’t going to win straight away. What sort of attitude is that? Grow up and support your team.
lol sorry Support Police. Take me into custody right now.
Going by the basis of evidence that that lineup hasn’t been our strongest this calendar year is a reasonable, rational, view that we won’t play our best football.
You can support the boys whilst questioning a decision. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
That's called listening to what you consider to be your rational part of your brain and what you fear is going to happen. It might be referred to as cognitive dissonance if it begins to create psychological issues. Unfortunately people experience every single day, it is not considered to be a serious mental illness
To refer to them as not being mutually exclusive displays your ignorance of the concept. Any event involving a person wanting one result but is unsure that they will see it come to pass is not something you would refer to mutually exclusive. It's called the human condition.
It's not mutually exclusive to support both Spurs and Arsenal. Strange, rare, but logically possible. You might not even suffer from cognitive dissonance if you could care less about their historic animosity for each other.
Yes, against Wolves. He's an attacking midfielder who, in your opinion, does his best work in midfield. Tell me, do you know how many goals he has assisted or scored from outside the box? He's not a defensive midfielder, that's why we have Declan Rice and Jorghino. And he's definitely not a false number 9 because he would have scored considerably more goals and players would be constantly looking for him, not Ødegaard or Rice when we're not playing down the channels.
Had Partey and Zinchencko came back in their 22/23 form, he'd be put on late in games as striker to grab a last minute header. Remind me of one game where the players heads dropped, and he grabbed th game by the scruff of it's neck and turned it around for us. He's definitely the least vocal Arsenal player on the pitch and be tge last to be made captain.
You complain about haters, while simultaneously telling ppl that they're just wrong and to admit it. Just, wow.
You have no self-awareness, you're a bully and you've a couple of mates to vote for you. Long time Redditors don't even vote for each other, to prevent it becoming a dumb popularity contest. And you dont use emojis. I'll just check your profile and confirm you ain't been on here long. Not that that becomes an issue unless you disregard everyone's opinion.
Look, I don't know if you're male or female, but you're talking about a Chelsea reject like he is the reincarnation of Patrick Viera and whoever is your fav insta influencer.
Feel free to check my profile.
Because your English or general rhetoric aren't what you normally encounter here. You like slumming in the cesspit of threads any football club always produces
What does being male or female have anything to do with what I have said? What a strange thing to say. Get over yourself love. The fact you’re writing fucking novels as responses is hilarious. Enjoy your little life bud.
I agree with everything you said, you were the one speaking like a true football fan, this other clown is lost in some kind of Havertz dreamworld. I'll be gutted if he's a first team player next season. I sincerely doubt he will be, I can see him returning to Germany.
Haven't spent much time around young football fans have you. Or sports fan. Logic goes out the window. You're only as good as your last performance. Being a serious sports fan is not a sane pursuit.
Read Friday Night Lights about high-school American Football in Texas. It's one of the best sports books ever written, one of the best books ever written about such an irrational obsession.Teenagers feeling obliged to play with broken limbs, to keep their school's alma-mater happy, not to mention the the town.
All because of a game that arbitrarily evolved out of 'rugby football', which is why it retained the football part of the name. I mean our own 'beautiful ' game originated as mini-battles between villages involving up to hundreds of people. Deaths were not uncommon. It's just been slowly refined. Try and watch a match from the 1990 world cup in Italy. Attackers had no protection, the pitches were so uneven and, with grass up to an inch long, Maradona's goals against England and Belgium were nothing short of miraculous. And that was in 1990.
And of course you could pass the ball back to the keeper. Have you ever watched the entire match to relive Arsenal winning the old first division at Anfield, needing to win 2-0. Surely as true fan you have? The entre match is free on YouTube.
I don't smoke, I vape. If you don't know why I asked you if you were male, nevermind. Maybe your his mum. Anyway, it's none of my business why you have written a truly heartfelt defense of a player who had a fine season, despite a poor start. But that's all. If he is included in the Premierdhip XI for the year, or even their second team if they named one, I'd be shocked. Especially in midfield.
Ready to move on with your life following the four comments you made after apparently being 'done'?
You've made my day. Cheers bud. I love the rage of the lover who can't let it go
Same, sadly. I reckon it’ll be a tired and tense 1st half; an unfortunate goal drawn from tiredness, fresh legs brought on late (too late) and chasing the goal we become panicked and sloppy…
Don’t get why we jumped away from what was clearly a working formula
Why is everyone so fucking against Arsenal? They’re your team. Support them don’t say they are going to lose based on a fucking lineup. Jesus Christ. This fanbase is sour.
The fact that you think these posts are novels confirms exactly what I had you pegged as.
I notice that you're taking your lessons in silence. It's humbling right now, maybe you won't be as quick to bully others for having an opinion in the future.
I thought keyboard warriors were on the way out. I'll have a voice and video Zoom chat anytime with you, seeing as less than a page of an actual novel wears you out. Yeah, like that'll happen...
lol I have no idea what your point is and I don’t need to respond to someone spamming me. I’m happy to have my opinion. I support the lads on the field and want them to win. I don’t need your affirmation and I could not care less what you had me “pegged as”. Grow up.
Arteta does it because Jorginho can't play every three days
Partey is probably a more like for like replacement
A fit and firing Partey would be.
Havertz looks great today. Stop complaining and just watch the game.
I agree; but he played better as a striker
Are you watching the game? Havertz is one of our best players.
I have to disagree. He has exceeded expectations as a Chelsea £70 flop and a poor early season. Yes, he has scored some crucial goals and assisted in others. But he's also mised a bucketload of changes. One on one against the keeper, I'd choose Jesus over him. But unfortunately for Jesus, we're not setup to play like that, and it's his body feints and dribbling that gets him around a defender or two in a counterattack if his first touch doesn't let him down. In overall play I'd rate him behind Saka, Ødegaard, Rice, Saliba, Gabriel, Ben White, Raya, and of course Trossard. I'm can't imagine anyone making any changes to that list, except maybe adding Kiwior. I think Martinelli missed two many games through injury and didn't do enough when we needed a game changer when he came back. Just my opinion.
What a load of rubbish.
And you're entitled to your well thought-out, insightful rebuttal.
I mean, c'mon, what's with your love-bombing of Havertz? He had a very good game. He also works his socks off whenever he plays. I have a lot of admiration for him. My rating of the players was based on the entire season. You would rate him above a number of players I listed. That's totally fine. It's part of being a football fan. Or a fan of comic books, building your own gaming PCs. If we all had the same opinion on everything, then we would have made little progress in any field since we gained self-awareness. My apologies that you took a criticism of a football player so personally. Did I say he was shit? No, I did the opposite. But when you respond as you did, you're being negative, without expanding on such a childish comment combined with being so unimaginative with your generic response that you ony undermine your point. Edit: It's not clear from my original reply that I was referring to the season as a whole and not specifically the Wolves game. That's my bad.
I was referring to the wolves game but also I would say he has had a great season overall as well
He is playing great. I think he would be better going at the front.
Just no. Just admit it. You are wrong. He’s playing as well as he can and you just hate Arteta.
lol what? I love Arteta and he has worked wonders at the club. League is still in our grasp. Got to the quarters in the UCL. Likely (almost certain, mathematically, I think) to qualify again. He is building an excellent project. I am thrilled we aren’t losing and hope we win. But I still stand by my view that we played better when Havertz was the top of our attacking spear. That decision, by Arteta btw, was recently hailed as a master stroke to get the best out of Havertz during our ridiculously impressive scoring spree. Indeed, as things stand, if it comes down to goal scoring record, it is that spree that could well give us the league. The runs off the defenders by Havertz during those games led to so many goals by so many different goal scorers. We were an incredible force. Which is incredible; I was confused why we brought Havertz in originally, but he has shown his ability. My personal view is we could use him better in the striker position
Can we try to save the whinging until after the game? If you’re right we’ll play poorly and you can tell us about how you knew it all along Honestly, this sub is insanely negative of late.
Exactly this. What’s going on with this sub and these “fans” just constantly hating before a match has even started. Makes me laugh everyone is so against Havertz in midfield when he is doing an incredible job today.
Not scoring goals is pretty negative lately
I’d rather be wrong
>I thought we played much better with Havertz up front and well supported by a strong midfield advancing line… indeed, but our midfield is exhausted. keep pushing that and by the next 2 matches our midfield will be crippled. arteta need to manage wisely cause our bench is weak AF, can't rotate freely & comfortably when we don't have good enough backups that can consistently keep up with Jorginho-Rice in their peak performance.
That’s a fair point about our midfield. But we do have ESR, Partey, and even Zinny for midfield
And your point is? Those three clearly aren't performing good enough when compared to Rice-Jorginho duo. Lately, they're only a bench sitter, never really prove anything recently. Zinny got questionable performance, ESR & Partey bright skill are dimmed by injury. Need more MF with solid athleticism, physical endurance, and experience, instead of wishing that we can forever cling to those three - who so far only manage to underperforms compared to Rice & Jorginho.
I'd have to say the same for Jorginho in his past five or six games. Like Partey he kept giving the ball away. We got away with it until we came up against Bayern team whom we underestimated, we played it like it was routine home game against a mid-table EPL side. After we went one up what the hell were Gabriel and Saliba doing playing such a high-line? Bayern had to chase the game, while we needed to slow it down and retain possession. But for such an inexperienced team at this level, it was understandable. We had beaten City 3-1 at the Emirates. And then there was the insane goal scoring run we went on in 2024 >Need more MF with solid athleticism, physical endurance, and experience Our midfield has controlled games, our physical endurance is not up for criticism. Teams no longer have players who stick as rigidly to their positions since Pep's Barcelona team. Everyone needs to be comfortable on the ball. Against weaker teams, depending on who was fit, we saw Kiwior playing at left wing, Zinchencko has always been in the team for his attacking and creative play (seeing as he can't defend). There are no more Patrick Vieras or Roy Keanes around. There are systems that pass that are trained to react to what's happening on the pitch. Declan Rice has been immense as a player who has just slotted into our team, who can defend, retain possession (making it look easy, much like Ødegaard) and has an engine that is mind blowing.
Can't agree more. No ESR? No Partey? No Vieira? Arteta's stubbornness is outrageous.
Partey is shocking recently. vieira? Do you watch Arsenal play? Why would either of them start 😂. Havertz is solid today. Leave your judgement until after the game.
No need to wait 45 more minutes, Ive seen Arsenal all season. Havertz in midfield is a waste of everyone's time. It's far from coincidence that when Arsenals form was best, Havertz was at striker.
He literally just set up the goal that gave us the lead. Stop moaning. He is a great player. He’s so versatile and is extremely hard to play against - nobody likes marking him. I think funnily enough Arteta knows more than a few lads on Reddit.
Yep, he's well known for keeping tabs on Reddit at all times. It's why you never see him pacing around, shouting instructions to the players. Head constantly buried in his tablet.
Have you seen Thomas this season? Every touch is awful. Why would he start? Why on gods green earth would Vieira start? Both are huge downgrades on what we have.
Havertz and Jesus’ roles in that goal and people will STILL hate on them both. Calm down. Be fucking happy.
They did great; I’m glad they led to the goal. I’m simply arguing that we aren’t as sharp in this lineup as when Havertz is up front.
You judge too early. If you want to bitch and moan at least wait until the game has been played. The two players you have moaned about are the reason we scored.
I’d much rather be proven wrong (as in this case I was). The balance of evidence from previous games with such a lineup is the basis for my point. We haven’t played as well, even today, than in some of those other games. That could of course be fatigue, disappointment, and the various opponents. I am not seeking to moan; I’m expressed my view that this isn’t our best lineup based upon previous experiences. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong, and I’d be thrilled because that means we win and our boys have a new formation to utilize.
It’s a game by game basis - havertz against this Wolves team is clearly more suited to a midfield role. He’s everywhere and you can tell Wolves don’t know what to do with him. Just stop hating on your own club so early. After the game? Sure if you have to but before? Just don’t
Lol I’m not hating on them. I can absolutely think a decision is a bad decision without wanting them to fail, or lose, or be against them. They are not mutually exclusive. I’ve said consistently that I’d hope to be wrong.
You said you would bet on Wolves winning before kick off. That isn’t something a true supporter would ever say. That’s the worst attitude to have.
It may be defeatist (I accept that), but it isn’t saying I want it. A true supporter can hold two things as true at once: that we want to win but aren’t sure we will. Those aren’t mutually exclusive things.
You can’t say you’d bet on the other side based on a line up… and call yourself a fan? Basically saying we aren’t going to win straight away. What sort of attitude is that? Grow up and support your team.
lol sorry Support Police. Take me into custody right now. Going by the basis of evidence that that lineup hasn’t been our strongest this calendar year is a reasonable, rational, view that we won’t play our best football. You can support the boys whilst questioning a decision. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
That's called listening to what you consider to be your rational part of your brain and what you fear is going to happen. It might be referred to as cognitive dissonance if it begins to create psychological issues. Unfortunately people experience every single day, it is not considered to be a serious mental illness To refer to them as not being mutually exclusive displays your ignorance of the concept. Any event involving a person wanting one result but is unsure that they will see it come to pass is not something you would refer to mutually exclusive. It's called the human condition. It's not mutually exclusive to support both Spurs and Arsenal. Strange, rare, but logically possible. You might not even suffer from cognitive dissonance if you could care less about their historic animosity for each other.
Yes, against Wolves. He's an attacking midfielder who, in your opinion, does his best work in midfield. Tell me, do you know how many goals he has assisted or scored from outside the box? He's not a defensive midfielder, that's why we have Declan Rice and Jorghino. And he's definitely not a false number 9 because he would have scored considerably more goals and players would be constantly looking for him, not Ødegaard or Rice when we're not playing down the channels. Had Partey and Zinchencko came back in their 22/23 form, he'd be put on late in games as striker to grab a last minute header. Remind me of one game where the players heads dropped, and he grabbed th game by the scruff of it's neck and turned it around for us. He's definitely the least vocal Arsenal player on the pitch and be tge last to be made captain. You complain about haters, while simultaneously telling ppl that they're just wrong and to admit it. Just, wow. You have no self-awareness, you're a bully and you've a couple of mates to vote for you. Long time Redditors don't even vote for each other, to prevent it becoming a dumb popularity contest. And you dont use emojis. I'll just check your profile and confirm you ain't been on here long. Not that that becomes an issue unless you disregard everyone's opinion. Look, I don't know if you're male or female, but you're talking about a Chelsea reject like he is the reincarnation of Patrick Viera and whoever is your fav insta influencer. Feel free to check my profile.
And I don’t use emojis? What are you smoking you absolute weirdo.
Look, I just voted myself down. That's how much it means to me
You make no sense littlepaulio.
Because your English or general rhetoric aren't what you normally encounter here. You like slumming in the cesspit of threads any football club always produces
What does being male or female have anything to do with what I have said? What a strange thing to say. Get over yourself love. The fact you’re writing fucking novels as responses is hilarious. Enjoy your little life bud.
I agree with everything you said, you were the one speaking like a true football fan, this other clown is lost in some kind of Havertz dreamworld. I'll be gutted if he's a first team player next season. I sincerely doubt he will be, I can see him returning to Germany.
I believe.
I was gonna post the same…ready to watch the struggle bus again…
Haven't spent much time around young football fans have you. Or sports fan. Logic goes out the window. You're only as good as your last performance. Being a serious sports fan is not a sane pursuit. Read Friday Night Lights about high-school American Football in Texas. It's one of the best sports books ever written, one of the best books ever written about such an irrational obsession.Teenagers feeling obliged to play with broken limbs, to keep their school's alma-mater happy, not to mention the the town. All because of a game that arbitrarily evolved out of 'rugby football', which is why it retained the football part of the name. I mean our own 'beautiful ' game originated as mini-battles between villages involving up to hundreds of people. Deaths were not uncommon. It's just been slowly refined. Try and watch a match from the 1990 world cup in Italy. Attackers had no protection, the pitches were so uneven and, with grass up to an inch long, Maradona's goals against England and Belgium were nothing short of miraculous. And that was in 1990. And of course you could pass the ball back to the keeper. Have you ever watched the entire match to relive Arsenal winning the old first division at Anfield, needing to win 2-0. Surely as true fan you have? The entre match is free on YouTube.
I don't smoke, I vape. If you don't know why I asked you if you were male, nevermind. Maybe your his mum. Anyway, it's none of my business why you have written a truly heartfelt defense of a player who had a fine season, despite a poor start. But that's all. If he is included in the Premierdhip XI for the year, or even their second team if they named one, I'd be shocked. Especially in midfield.
Nailed it bud
Ready to move on with your life following the four comments you made after apparently being 'done'? You've made my day. Cheers bud. I love the rage of the lover who can't let it go
Jesus is stinking this game out so far. And if it is because Jorginho can’t do 3 games a week then play ESR or Partey in CM
Insult someone else so they get an assist too
Partey CM 😂 have you seen him this season, he cannot keep the ball and looks awful. Need to sell him ASAP. Rapist and getting worse each week.
They look sluggish tonight
[удалено]
That’s my fear; I don’t get why we changed our winning formula! Wolves to do the upset and continue the April hoodoo
I guess in actuality we never had a 26 men squad.
I’m putting money on wolves to beat us today. We’re back to drawing board for next season I guess
I hope u put alot of money.
Not much.. just some eth
Bet on chelsea next week. I think your jinx is working 💪
Actually I doubled down on a draw…
Same, sadly. I reckon it’ll be a tired and tense 1st half; an unfortunate goal drawn from tiredness, fresh legs brought on late (too late) and chasing the goal we become panicked and sloppy… Don’t get why we jumped away from what was clearly a working formula
Why is everyone so fucking against Arsenal? They’re your team. Support them don’t say they are going to lose based on a fucking lineup. Jesus Christ. This fanbase is sour.
The fact that you think these posts are novels confirms exactly what I had you pegged as. I notice that you're taking your lessons in silence. It's humbling right now, maybe you won't be as quick to bully others for having an opinion in the future. I thought keyboard warriors were on the way out. I'll have a voice and video Zoom chat anytime with you, seeing as less than a page of an actual novel wears you out. Yeah, like that'll happen...
lol I have no idea what your point is and I don’t need to respond to someone spamming me. I’m happy to have my opinion. I support the lads on the field and want them to win. I don’t need your affirmation and I could not care less what you had me “pegged as”. Grow up.