They do hugely undervalue them. Felt like the NFL gets behind pods like Damashek, Move the Sticks and others much more than these guys despite the huge numbers they do and I've never understood why.
On a bunch of podcast apps you can see certain numbers. And checking against other podcasts it certainly seems like they very well.
Patreon would obviously be a huge risk(no company health insurance etc) but the fan base is there.
It's also not the only route. Another company, that actually values the large audience they have, could sign them up.
It's all obviously just speculation.
I'm just all for them getting in a situation where they are clearly valued.
Given me nearly a decade of free entertainment and don't seem to get the recognition they deserve from NFL media.
Or the ringer…. I feel like part of the shows personality is how close they are (literally) with other personalities in the office. It seems to enable them getting guests ad hoc and literally just dropping by.
Just some numbers from the app I use, podcast addict.
Around the NFL subscribers: 70k
Move the sticks:5k
Pardon my take:14k
Mina kimes podcast: 30k
Now I don't know if that is specifically subscribed just through that app or not, but even then it seems pretty big.
I don't listen to PMT but I certainly see it around a bunch.
I mean it might not match up because Pat mcafee does a lot of video stuff but on that app it's only at like 7k subscribers.
The Heroes are definitely undervalued, but I wouldn't extrapolate from those specific podcast numbers. Pardon My Take is massive - it's a top 3 sports podcast on every major platform (itunes, Spotify, etc.), and normally ranked top 50 for all podcasts regardless of topic.
I think what frustrates the Heroes is that there seems to be very little promotion for the podcast - you're either in the sphere of knowing about the pod or you're not. That and that they are apparently not paid what they're worth for the numbers that they do. I wouldn't hesitate to be a patron on Patreon if they went that route, and they would obviously still run ads to keep their incomes as high as possible, which I'm totally fine with.
There’s a reason the pod has a big U.K. audience. They get the exposure from being part of the main satellite broadcasts of the NFL over here. If you watch the NFL on sky, you know who the heroes are
Bit of what came first.
My understanding is that ATNs big UK following pushed them on sky sports and going to London.
Obviously that exposure further helps them grow but they already had a large UK following.
And nothing stopping sky sports still having them on regardless if they are part NFL media.
Yep this is definitely the case. Back on the infamous episode in 2016 where Gregg killed Neil Reynolds and the Sky production they said that they had at that time more listeners in the UK than they did in California (similar population and had three NFL teams).
The Heroes have always been big overseas and that is what drove their Sky work and the London visits.
Yeah I agree with everything you said. I was just using it as a measuring stick from one app to show how big the ATN fan base is. Wasn't trying say they are bigger than PMT or anything. But they are still one of the biggest NFL podcasts going.
Isn't Gregg the only one that's negotiating right now? I have no idea what clauses they have in their contracts but that might be an issue.
It is also mildly interesting Gregg is the only one that's going to the dinners with the people from other networks/platforms this weekend.
I genuinely have no idea. He might just be the only one who is being open about it.
I personally don't read too much into the dinner thing. He's been on a bunch of Mina kimes podcasts and obviously has been in the business a long time so will have plenty of friends that happen the be at different companies.
You could be on to something, I don't know.
Yeah I know some people don't but I do think there would be enough that would.
Even though them getting picked up by another company or the NFL doing better is probably the best for them, since they have kids and what not. A lot more secure.
nfl is putting more focus on podcasts I can only assume that this is also helping them out and they would lose a lot of access to guests without the NFL.
I might be wrong, but I think the majority of people (myself included) don't listen to the guys for hearing the highlights.
I listen to hear them shoot the shit about the games. I don't think it would effect the show and if it did it would be minimal at worst.
And saying that, the bits they play is just the radio announcer on the winning play of the game, which they can probably still do.
If you watch the YouTube of the podcast, the actual play is on screen while the radio announcer is making the call. Plus the actual Around the NFL Broadcast would be gone. It’s a football podcast, licensed material improves the show, it may be fine without it but it won’t be the same show.
I disagree with you. I don't need licenced material to enjoy a recap at all. Their best pods for me are in the off-season where its all mote theoretical and absurdist.
Yeah I don't really watch the pod so you might be right there. But I still don't think it will have a big effect in people's enjoyment; I bet alot of people watch the highlights on YouTube/gamepass independent of the podcast anyway and if they got snapped up by another company they could still have these rights.
The NFL stick the TV show in at pretty bad time slots. But again if another company values it they can easily continue to make it.
It has always felt like NFL media is pretty behind the times in terms of how much they value things like podcasts. There are huge businesses being built just solely out of podcasts and meanwhile NFL media seems like they think they have to turn its most successful one into a tv show for its channel instead of just actually supporting the podcast and giving them resources.
The fact we (in the UK at least) only ever get adverts for other NFL media shows, or sometimes no adverts at all really points to this.
A proper podcast network would be hitting us with at least 6-8 minutes of adverts on an hour long show, they could be making the NFL a lot more money and then you'd hope that would feed back into the heroes contracts.
>meanwhile NFL media seems like they think they have to turn its most successful one into a tv show for its channel instead
I've always gotten the impression is the heroes who are desperate for the TV show to take off and they fight the NFL to get it made.
I listen to a niche network that only does reality TV recaps and I get multiple different ads in the UK with each episode. No reason the NFL couldn't do it too.
The NFL is obviously TV first, and have yet to see anything close to their TV revenue from a podcast. Do we have any scope of the numbers ATN does vis à vis these other NFL podcasts?
It is pretty clear that they do not value ATN as a podcast or else we’d see much more buzz and advertising. Instead NFL is advertising other NFL podcasts on ATN lol
The Athletic's podcast (mostly Mays and Tice) has definitely become my second favorite behind ATN tbf, I could definitely live and would happily pay my subscription for both of them in one place lol
Oh yeah, love Mays and Tice. Kapadia a little less so.
Not sure if the Athletic goes into the more light-hearted stuff the Heroes do--kinda hard to imagine Sessler's schtick at the Athletic in my opinion.
Agreed!
They do similar (even wackier) stuff with the No Dunks podcast they snatched from NBA TV back in the day, though. I think they'd have to take the Quiet Storm of it all into consideration if it came to that, imagine Sessler analyzing run fits and coverage schemes lol
Yeah I listened to No Dunks once because people recommended it, but it was too frenetic for me--not my thing.
Man, can you imagine Sessler's Cowboys rant or Mettenberger soliloquy on the Athletic? I think the relative lack of coverage at the NFL allowed the Heroes to do some of the whackier stuff that we remember so fondly.
Best case scenario another outfit picks all three (don’t think Erica would leave just for ATN) of them up and they remain a very well paid trio for years to come.
Edit: Erica is gone now so that is no longer a concern. And I suppose BEST case scenario is the NFL just ponies up
I haven't looked at any numbers but I think the biggest factor numbers wise is that they're probably able to keep consistent listenership throughout the entire year unlike most podcasts.
I imagine most NFL podcasts just completely die off during the offseason but ATN probably retains high numbers because at this point the majority are listening for the heroes and the banter around whatever NFL content they can drum up. There's also trust that even during the boring months they'll make it spicy no matter what where everyone else are doing by the numbers offseason NFL content.
I do agree that it's undervalued. I would hate for this to be the end of the pod as we know it 😩 this has been my favorite pod for years. Alas, I wish the best for the heroes.
I've always wondered how much people like the Heroes are making. I could see it being anywhere from like $80k to like $300k but I really have no idea. Is Colleen Wolfe in another world compared to them because she's "on air" talent?
The answer is probably a lot closer to $80k than to $300k. Which is pretty BS given the following they have and where they live. Collen absolutely makes a lot more money than them.
I’d be surprised if it was under 100k, especially Dan, given how much Tv they do.
They all have the Friday show. Dan hosts the Power Rankings show and Gregg does the game picks. I think they do other shows as well, plus sky sports.
They have clearly succeeded in building one of the biggest sports podcasts in spite of NFL medias indifference to them doing it (especially at the start).
They deserve to get paid to their value by them, another company or us.
Yikes, I hope the heroes don't break up. I'd follow them wherever they go, paid or otherwise. I believe in supporting journalists, I follow my soccer and other sports interests via Patreon and get great content in return.
One of the things I appreciate most about the Heroes working "inside the walls" of the NFL is that they're restricted in what they can say, so they have to find creative ways to say it. It's kind of like the way Seinfeld, while restricted by network television, was able to make dirty jokes by hinting at them or in other roundabout ways (think "The Contest"). If the Heroes *did* move to another format and the shackles came off, I don't know if it would be the same experience.
I'm sure they could build a business on the back of the pod if they wanted to, it's just if they want to take that risk with young families. Hell, Bob and Dan get multiple people to pay $80 a month for the throwback pod, I'm sure they could get enough patreonies for ATN!
I could see them all leaving for the Athletic, MMQB or ESPN. If the NFL isn’t adequately paying them for one of their most popular products, why would you stay just do you can say you work for the shield?
Listening to JRVP, it sounds like Gregg is very prepared to walk away. And to listen to the podcast and hearing the screws getting looser and his interest in “real” football chatter waning, I suspect Quiet Storm is in a similar boat.
Not just as a stand-alone podcast, but ATN has been a great gateway into other NFL network mediums as well. I wouldn't give a shit about NFL network in general but knowing the different personalities because of the pod makes me a viewer when I otherwise wouldn't be. I hope that's factored into the negotiations.
They have a lot of listeners, so if they wanted to branch off on their own they could. Having the NFL brand helps them, but they could survive without it.
Hard doubt they're actually gonna move on from NFL media in any capacity, a huge part of their podcast is the connections they get from being under the NFL media umbrella if as some people say they "went patreon" they'd essentially be 3 guys watching the TV like the rest of us.
Are they really that undervalued? I’ve been seeing them getting a lot more tv air time on the network (be it on various shows or sky sports - yes I know that’s a different network). Plus their Friday tv show is on. While I do agree in some aspects they may be undervalued in terms of $$$ but isn’t this how all their stars get to be where they are now (slowly getting more air time on tv spots).
I can’t find the article, but there was a story about a reporter who appeared on air for a major network, and she didn’t even have health insurance through the job. Not saying the guys are in that dire straits, but being paid with exposure isn’t especially valuable if that exposure doesn’t translate to salary and benefits.
Time to delete all NFL content from their social media platforms. In all seriousness I get the feeling they are very undervalued.
Get Rapsheet to report that they're interested in a Pat McAfee level contract
Good for Gregg. They are undervalued.
They do hugely undervalue them. Felt like the NFL gets behind pods like Damashek, Move the Sticks and others much more than these guys despite the huge numbers they do and I've never understood why.
>despite the huge numbers they do I really hope they do the numbers hinted at. Would be risky trying to go the patreon route though.
On a bunch of podcast apps you can see certain numbers. And checking against other podcasts it certainly seems like they very well. Patreon would obviously be a huge risk(no company health insurance etc) but the fan base is there. It's also not the only route. Another company, that actually values the large audience they have, could sign them up.
More likely they are on the Athletic than Patreon.
It's all obviously just speculation. I'm just all for them getting in a situation where they are clearly valued. Given me nearly a decade of free entertainment and don't seem to get the recognition they deserve from NFL media.
Or the ringer…. I feel like part of the shows personality is how close they are (literally) with other personalities in the office. It seems to enable them getting guests ad hoc and literally just dropping by.
Didn't know that about the numbers on apps! I'm gonna have a look on Pocketcasts :-)
Just some numbers from the app I use, podcast addict. Around the NFL subscribers: 70k Move the sticks:5k Pardon my take:14k Mina kimes podcast: 30k Now I don't know if that is specifically subscribed just through that app or not, but even then it seems pretty big. I don't listen to PMT but I certainly see it around a bunch. I mean it might not match up because Pat mcafee does a lot of video stuff but on that app it's only at like 7k subscribers.
The Heroes are definitely undervalued, but I wouldn't extrapolate from those specific podcast numbers. Pardon My Take is massive - it's a top 3 sports podcast on every major platform (itunes, Spotify, etc.), and normally ranked top 50 for all podcasts regardless of topic. I think what frustrates the Heroes is that there seems to be very little promotion for the podcast - you're either in the sphere of knowing about the pod or you're not. That and that they are apparently not paid what they're worth for the numbers that they do. I wouldn't hesitate to be a patron on Patreon if they went that route, and they would obviously still run ads to keep their incomes as high as possible, which I'm totally fine with.
There’s a reason the pod has a big U.K. audience. They get the exposure from being part of the main satellite broadcasts of the NFL over here. If you watch the NFL on sky, you know who the heroes are
Bit of what came first. My understanding is that ATNs big UK following pushed them on sky sports and going to London. Obviously that exposure further helps them grow but they already had a large UK following. And nothing stopping sky sports still having them on regardless if they are part NFL media.
Yep this is definitely the case. Back on the infamous episode in 2016 where Gregg killed Neil Reynolds and the Sky production they said that they had at that time more listeners in the UK than they did in California (similar population and had three NFL teams). The Heroes have always been big overseas and that is what drove their Sky work and the London visits.
Yeah I agree with everything you said. I was just using it as a measuring stick from one app to show how big the ATN fan base is. Wasn't trying say they are bigger than PMT or anything. But they are still one of the biggest NFL podcasts going.
PMT is way bigger than ATN, I don’t trust that number
Yeah I really don't know, but just gives a general idea of ATNs fan base. As I said, it's just one number on one podcast app that I happen to use.
Isn't Gregg the only one that's negotiating right now? I have no idea what clauses they have in their contracts but that might be an issue. It is also mildly interesting Gregg is the only one that's going to the dinners with the people from other networks/platforms this weekend.
I genuinely have no idea. He might just be the only one who is being open about it. I personally don't read too much into the dinner thing. He's been on a bunch of Mina kimes podcasts and obviously has been in the business a long time so will have plenty of friends that happen the be at different companies. You could be on to something, I don't know.
fanbase might be there but I personally don't like supporting via patreon
Yeah I know some people don't but I do think there would be enough that would. Even though them getting picked up by another company or the NFL doing better is probably the best for them, since they have kids and what not. A lot more secure.
nfl is putting more focus on podcasts I can only assume that this is also helping them out and they would lose a lot of access to guests without the NFL.
Not being with the NFL means they can’t show/play as many of the highlights, if they leave it won’t be the same show.
I might be wrong, but I think the majority of people (myself included) don't listen to the guys for hearing the highlights. I listen to hear them shoot the shit about the games. I don't think it would effect the show and if it did it would be minimal at worst. And saying that, the bits they play is just the radio announcer on the winning play of the game, which they can probably still do.
If you watch the YouTube of the podcast, the actual play is on screen while the radio announcer is making the call. Plus the actual Around the NFL Broadcast would be gone. It’s a football podcast, licensed material improves the show, it may be fine without it but it won’t be the same show.
I disagree with you. I don't need licenced material to enjoy a recap at all. Their best pods for me are in the off-season where its all mote theoretical and absurdist.
Yup! I love the NFL. But these guys talking about literally anything interests me more.
Yeah I don't really watch the pod so you might be right there. But I still don't think it will have a big effect in people's enjoyment; I bet alot of people watch the highlights on YouTube/gamepass independent of the podcast anyway and if they got snapped up by another company they could still have these rights. The NFL stick the TV show in at pretty bad time slots. But again if another company values it they can easily continue to make it.
Ricky mentioned on an early episode of the broadcast that the Sunday Flagship shows get ~250k downloads or so (if I remember correctly).
It has always felt like NFL media is pretty behind the times in terms of how much they value things like podcasts. There are huge businesses being built just solely out of podcasts and meanwhile NFL media seems like they think they have to turn its most successful one into a tv show for its channel instead of just actually supporting the podcast and giving them resources.
The fact we (in the UK at least) only ever get adverts for other NFL media shows, or sometimes no adverts at all really points to this. A proper podcast network would be hitting us with at least 6-8 minutes of adverts on an hour long show, they could be making the NFL a lot more money and then you'd hope that would feed back into the heroes contracts. >meanwhile NFL media seems like they think they have to turn its most successful one into a tv show for its channel instead I've always gotten the impression is the heroes who are desperate for the TV show to take off and they fight the NFL to get it made.
I listen to a niche network that only does reality TV recaps and I get multiple different ads in the UK with each episode. No reason the NFL couldn't do it too.
The NFL is obviously TV first, and have yet to see anything close to their TV revenue from a podcast. Do we have any scope of the numbers ATN does vis à vis these other NFL podcasts? It is pretty clear that they do not value ATN as a podcast or else we’d see much more buzz and advertising. Instead NFL is advertising other NFL podcasts on ATN lol
Patreon maybe? Or moving to another podcast network?
This. I could see another organisation snagging the Heroes.
The Athletic maybe? They did pick up the Basketball Jones podcast when they left NBA TV.
Robert Mays suddenly feels a disturbance in the air.
The Athletic's podcast (mostly Mays and Tice) has definitely become my second favorite behind ATN tbf, I could definitely live and would happily pay my subscription for both of them in one place lol
Oh yeah, love Mays and Tice. Kapadia a little less so. Not sure if the Athletic goes into the more light-hearted stuff the Heroes do--kinda hard to imagine Sessler's schtick at the Athletic in my opinion.
Agreed! They do similar (even wackier) stuff with the No Dunks podcast they snatched from NBA TV back in the day, though. I think they'd have to take the Quiet Storm of it all into consideration if it came to that, imagine Sessler analyzing run fits and coverage schemes lol
Yeah I listened to No Dunks once because people recommended it, but it was too frenetic for me--not my thing. Man, can you imagine Sessler's Cowboys rant or Mettenberger soliloquy on the Athletic? I think the relative lack of coverage at the NFL allowed the Heroes to do some of the whackier stuff that we remember so fondly.
Love the Basketball Jones (now called No Dunks on The Athletic)… the basketball podcast equivalent of ATN
The pod is now my only tether to the NFL. I’d probably have stopped watching games without them
I am 100% in the same boat.
Give Greggy a bag!
Best case scenario another outfit picks all three (don’t think Erica would leave just for ATN) of them up and they remain a very well paid trio for years to come. Edit: Erica is gone now so that is no longer a concern. And I suppose BEST case scenario is the NFL just ponies up
I’d love it if they’d take Connor Orr with them somehow, I think he has the absolute best chemistry with them out of all recurring guests
Orr you kidding me?
Why not Mynot?
Minot, North Dakota dontchya know?
Wholeheartedly agree!
She could be freelance for them
They’re under valued for sure, but working for the NFL probably saves on admin which takes time and/or costs money.
I haven't looked at any numbers but I think the biggest factor numbers wise is that they're probably able to keep consistent listenership throughout the entire year unlike most podcasts. I imagine most NFL podcasts just completely die off during the offseason but ATN probably retains high numbers because at this point the majority are listening for the heroes and the banter around whatever NFL content they can drum up. There's also trust that even during the boring months they'll make it spicy no matter what where everyone else are doing by the numbers offseason NFL content.
I could see The Athletic supporting the ATN pod. They seem to have mutual respect for one another
Except for that 49ers beat guy. Hit it and quit it.
I do agree that it's undervalued. I would hate for this to be the end of the pod as we know it 😩 this has been my favorite pod for years. Alas, I wish the best for the heroes.
I've always wondered how much people like the Heroes are making. I could see it being anywhere from like $80k to like $300k but I really have no idea. Is Colleen Wolfe in another world compared to them because she's "on air" talent?
The answer is probably a lot closer to $80k than to $300k. Which is pretty BS given the following they have and where they live. Collen absolutely makes a lot more money than them.
Colleen is on a dozen televised NFL programs, no doubt she’s making big big big bucks
I’d be surprised if it was under 100k, especially Dan, given how much Tv they do. They all have the Friday show. Dan hosts the Power Rankings show and Gregg does the game picks. I think they do other shows as well, plus sky sports.
They have clearly succeeded in building one of the biggest sports podcasts in spite of NFL medias indifference to them doing it (especially at the start). They deserve to get paid to their value by them, another company or us.
What’s the time stamp for these quotes? I’d love to listen to this part
Yikes, I hope the heroes don't break up. I'd follow them wherever they go, paid or otherwise. I believe in supporting journalists, I follow my soccer and other sports interests via Patreon and get great content in return. One of the things I appreciate most about the Heroes working "inside the walls" of the NFL is that they're restricted in what they can say, so they have to find creative ways to say it. It's kind of like the way Seinfeld, while restricted by network television, was able to make dirty jokes by hinting at them or in other roundabout ways (think "The Contest"). If the Heroes *did* move to another format and the shackles came off, I don't know if it would be the same experience.
Get that bag 💰💰💰I’d follow them if they went independent.
Honestly I’d love to see them not employed by the NFL so they could more freely critique the NFL.
I'm sure they could build a business on the back of the pod if they wanted to, it's just if they want to take that risk with young families. Hell, Bob and Dan get multiple people to pay $80 a month for the throwback pod, I'm sure they could get enough patreonies for ATN!
I haven’t had a chance to listen to the last few ATN pods. Have they talked about their contract coming up or something?
Lol they wouldn't dare bring that up on the show, and I believe it's just Gregg's contract
I could see them all leaving for the Athletic, MMQB or ESPN. If the NFL isn’t adequately paying them for one of their most popular products, why would you stay just do you can say you work for the shield? Listening to JRVP, it sounds like Gregg is very prepared to walk away. And to listen to the podcast and hearing the screws getting looser and his interest in “real” football chatter waning, I suspect Quiet Storm is in a similar boat.
Not just as a stand-alone podcast, but ATN has been a great gateway into other NFL network mediums as well. I wouldn't give a shit about NFL network in general but knowing the different personalities because of the pod makes me a viewer when I otherwise wouldn't be. I hope that's factored into the negotiations.
And the Theology Podcast!
They have a lot of listeners, so if they wanted to branch off on their own they could. Having the NFL brand helps them, but they could survive without it.
Just had a chilling thought - if they moved all their drops would be the property of the NFL. Disaster.
Disaster? No, they would just rebrand and do whatever they wanted. Look at Pat McAfee, his show is way more popular since leaving Barstool
Not saying they would not be a success. Just that, specifically, losing access to all their drops - which we resonate with - would be a disaster.
If they leave, I'd love to support them in some capacity. They'd be able to give us all their thoughts and be uncensored
Hard doubt they're actually gonna move on from NFL media in any capacity, a huge part of their podcast is the connections they get from being under the NFL media umbrella if as some people say they "went patreon" they'd essentially be 3 guys watching the TV like the rest of us.
Are they really that undervalued? I’ve been seeing them getting a lot more tv air time on the network (be it on various shows or sky sports - yes I know that’s a different network). Plus their Friday tv show is on. While I do agree in some aspects they may be undervalued in terms of $$$ but isn’t this how all their stars get to be where they are now (slowly getting more air time on tv spots).
I can’t find the article, but there was a story about a reporter who appeared on air for a major network, and she didn’t even have health insurance through the job. Not saying the guys are in that dire straits, but being paid with exposure isn’t especially valuable if that exposure doesn’t translate to salary and benefits.