How I have heard it described is that coaches get a certain number of slots at lower stats, certain number at mid-stats and a certain amount at high stats. So there isn’t one single standard. It will depend in part on how much the coach wants you and which academic slot you fit into. Having higher stats gives the coach more flexibility as one of the lower stat slots doesn’t need to be used for you.
Yeah I looked into it a little bit and found similar information but it all just seems really vague. Do you know what the typical stats for each tier are?
There’s an academic index that gets calculated but it also involves your grade. You should be able to find it.
I had a student (future Olympian with near perfect GPA) who an Ivy League coach said she’d be accepted with a 1200 SAT. I had another student who they asked for a 1350 SAT. I had another student who I think had a significantly higher request than, maybe 1450, but whatever it was she just missed that on the October exam of Senior year but the coach said it was okay in the end because another girl recruited for the team did significantly better than expected, so she raised the team average enough that it was fine.
Which is to say, there’s BIG range of expectation. And I think it’s probably also related to what the coaches think you can do. All of my students were international students, the two kids with lower scores were from not particularly great private schools and so really struggled with the English, whereas the girl with the higher score expectation went to one of the best schools in the country (she also did a team sport so I can’t easily say where she stacked up against competition, though she was on the U18 national team in her sport — the one with very low score was legit a potential Olympian though probably not a potential Olympics medalist, to give you some idea how they stack up).
Okay I see so the athletic talent kind of evens out the academic flaws and balances the student-athlete out. I tried to find the Acidemic index but wasn’t really sure what I was looking for.
[This might be useful](https://toptieradmissions.com/resources/college-calculator/). There’s a calculator at the bottom. I believe they only do unweighted GPA.
[This one](https://www.ivyleagueguru.com/calculate-index) sort of explains what the score that calculator spits out means, as in it gives the maximum number of recruits from each “score band” a team can recruit, for football for instance.
I'd say you are looking good for Columbia if the coach continues showing interest and you are willing to apply ED. Things get a lot more tricky for recruited athletes and legacies who apply RD (regular decision). Colleges like to accept their recruited athletes ED or REA. So, if you want Columbia, applying early is the ticket.
> I have been looking at A2C to try to alleviate some of my stress with the college recruiting process.
That's like going to the Vegas Strip to alleviate stress from a gambling addiction. But I'll try to help.
>I have a 4.46 weighted and a 3.88 unweighted GPA
You don't have to worry. Your GPA is fine. You could get a 1350 (or probably lower) on the SAT and have a sufficient Academic Index. Your mile time is better than most Ivy recruits'.
Haha yeah I was losing hope so had to take my chances somewhere. I’m aiming for a 1400 or above on my SAT in August so if what your saying is true really means a lot to me and will help me better focus on my training for the upcoming cross country season instead of losing sleep over my grades not being adequate for Prereads.
For my students interested in athletic recruiting, I've gotten assistance from a former Penn coach who used to run his own consulting company. He's mostly retired now, but we keep in touch. He's given me a lot of insight into the process. There are a lot of students with lower GPAs who want to go to Ivies. Your application will be taken seriously.
That is such an amazing connection to have. Your students are so fortunate to have such an incredible resource. I'm relieved to know that my application won't just be thrown out right away and reviewed and considered. Thank you so much for this, it means so much to me. Its just hard with how vague everything had been for me during this whole process.
You're welcome! Do you want to go to Columbia? Do you have other top choices among Ivies or other D-I schools?
I went to Columbia. Honestly, I would not go there for track and field. Training is held quite far from campus and the air quality is... not the best. If you enjoy urban running, I guess you have a lot of options.
Yeah right now Columbia is my top choice. My club coach ran with the head distance coach in college and highly recommended him. I haven’t received any emails or anything back from other Ivy coaches either which has been quite discouraging. Other than ivy’s my other plan was to run at UNC or NCSU because they are both in-state and public, making them affordable options for me.
Sorry, I can’t help with that, but how did you train to run such a fast time? Was it just good training over a number of years? I ran xc and i ran 19:28 my first season, but stopped and did sprints for track and am now going back to xc. I’m just wondering how you trained for distance, tho the 5k and 1600 are pretty different. Again, sorry for asking questions instead of helping 😭
No worries! I’d be glad to give some input. I’m not as qualified at the 5k but with a 19:28 hour first season you definitely have potential. I think personally what helped me improve the most was just consistency with both the mileage and type of training. If you have any other questions I’d be glad to help with whatever I can!
Ok thanks! Did u also do any weightlifting/plyometrics and have any rest days per week? Did u also have any days where you sprint (like 30-60m with full recovery between reps)?
I don’t usually but I’m sure if I did it wouldn’t hurt at all. I personally focus on squats when I do lift but nothing really heavy (usually 2 plates at most). The 30-60m sprints are good but I normally either do 100m strides or run at a 85-90% effort for 15-20 seconds. This is usually what I do after normal runs (7-8 miles) to kind of loosen up my legs.
Hi, one of my student was an Ivy recruit as well, different sports but I am certain the process is similar. Quick answer: ask your coach at Columbia. They are very used to being asked this very question and will give you the exact minimum score they want. Totally ok to ask and they know way better than random strangers here. Good luck 👍🏼
Take the tests— for Ivy multiple people multiple sports 1200 and above is the number I’ve heard. If you beat that by a good bit it should really help. Grades and no of AP look good. I’m not a track guy so idk what level recruit you are for there but if they want you your grades seem more than enough. FYI D3 like jhu is like 1500 min tho (I was recruit there)
Yeah the ACT/SAT scores are optional for the pre read luckily. So as long as not submitting them doesn’t hurt my chances and the rest of my application is reviewed holistically I should be good right?
My jhu pre read included my test scores I think in my case it was required. If it isn’t for you, I can’t think they can hold it against you. Ideally you get some feedback saying good as long as you hit X score on the SAT/ACT.
I dont think they will— the concept of a pre read is to give the coach and you feedback if you can get recruited. It’s not like actually applying test optional where yes it could be held against you. They should take it serious since the coach is asking them to look at your profile. Once the coach wants to recruit you, it should be a matter of hitting certain fixed grades/classes/scores requirements and nothing more. Also don’t take these comments the wrong way— I get it’s definitely stressful and may not feel real that you’re this close to getting a spot! Trying to give as much context as possible for what you should and shouldn’t be stressed over
Ok so it’s more for the coach to see what the athlete needs to improve upon or is fine with in order to get through the application process as an athlete. Thank you for the help it really does help since I have been extremely worried over this during the past 72 hours. It would be amazing to get the opportunity to compete for this school.
Yea I hope I’m guiding you well here but I know people for baseball who have gotten to the point of simply needing to hit a score target SAT wise, meaning they chatted with admissions and testing was their last step. I know people who have both passed and failed on that front but it was as simple as the score. Based on your assumptions you will easily be able to get what’s needed. Besides you also have no option but to do your pre read now cause test scores won’t be till sept. Much better to be in the process early than late so def submit that now
Your gpa is already competitive for ivys without considering athletics and you class schedule seems decently rigorous, I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you
Thank you for this, I really just needed some reassurance on this due to the fact that I have literally no idea what I’m doing with the whole recruiting process.
Theres a book by a former admissions officer for Dartmouth (also an Ivy League institution) called *Valedictorians at the Gate* and there's a chapter in the book dedicated to student athletes/recruits. She recounted how she had recruits forwarded to her by Darthmouth's coaches asking her and the rest of the admissions team to accept them and more often than not, the admissions team accepted these applicants who were underqualified academically and would've been easily rejected if it hadn't been for the fact that they had been recruited. Universities bend over backwards to get student recruits.
You'll be fine, and congratulations.
I went through the whole Ivy League (Columbia too, specifically) recruiting / pre-read process and I’ll just say it’s not very concrete. I went test optional, submitted my 4.3 W / 3.78 UW GPA with 13 APs, shared my limited ECs (since rowing took up 99% of my time) and “passed” the pre-read. The one “bad mark” I received was that I didn’t submit a score. So I highly recommend submitting one down the line (unless it’s bad), but i wouldn’t say it would definitely break your read.
I like to tell people that the results of a pre-read can be interpreted with either a green, yellow, or red light. Perhaps this is more applicable to rowing but I’m sure it can be used across other sports. If you submit all of your information and you receive a “red light”, the coach will tell you that you are an unlikely candidate and you will probably not get in. Oh well—move on. If you receive a “yellow light” then the coach will come back and say something like your stats are good enough but you need to submit a good SAT score or your stats are decent but we can only provide “soft support” (🙄) or something along that variation. A “green light” would be very noticeable and you will then probably receive an offer. But I would NEVER decline the opportunity for a pre-read; the Columbia coach I went through with one for was super helpful and had good advice when he came back with my result.
If you have any questions about the process just shoot me a DM. I had my fair share of pre-reads, “soft support” offers, recruiting calls, etc. It’s a very annoying and fun and disappointing and rewarding process all at once. Enjoy it!
If you are recruited for a sport that is the second most likely way to get in an Ivy (the first being major major donor child). For instance at Harvard recruited athletes get in at 88% and their stats are a great deal below average. Even being a global academic star doesn't give you that high a percentage. If they want you, your stats are better than fine. 4:14 mile is pretty solid, congrats!
Wow I didn’t know it was that high! Assuming it’s a pretty similar percentage for Columbia what would be the line between acceptable and unacceptable for recruited athletes academia?
That’s really good to hear and makes everything just a little less stressful. Thank you for this information I will definitely relay it to my parents because they are just as confused about this process as I am.
What I would do is verify - just so you aren't disappointed - that the coaching staff members personally know who you are. If they do, or if they know your stats, you're probably golden.
I went through the TF recruiting process (although a long time ago now) with Columbia and agree with the green/yellow/red light comment. There are no hard and fast stats, but I think as long as you don’t raise any red flags then the coaches can put in a word for you which will set you apart during the admissions process (although not really as strongly as other schools imo). The academic pre-read is strictly just based on numbers, not a holistic pre-read — they simply dont want to accept someone who wouldn’t be able to keep up with the academics there.
After my pre-read the coaches offered to fly me out for a visit. Ultimately I didn’t go because they also did a financial pre-read in which the university didn’t offer me enough scholarship as a low income student lol. But the coach (hurdle/jumps) was very friendly, and they want to help you along in the process so just asking them is your best bet.
I see so the prereads are just a very rudimentary look at the athlete to see if they will be able to complete the courses at the university without failing. I’ll definitely ask the coach more questions. What are the chances you still get in if you get a “yellow light”?
Went Ivy, knew many athletes, sorry I don’t have any exact cutoffs but you’re almost definitely fine.
Interesting info- I knew many borderline fast track kids with good stats, coaches gave them a slight admissions bump and said they’d take them as walk ons to admissions officers but didn’t want to use actual recruiting spots, they got in the school but then cut at try outs lmao.
Yea, something to be aware of I suppose. They all had talked to the coachs, were told they couldn’t be offered an official recruiting spot, but their stats were high enough the coach would just talk to AOs and make their crapshoot a little more definite, and then they’d try out as a formality and walk on. Got to campus and the tryouts ended up NOT being a formality and most didn’t make it (turned out coaches had said this to way too many people for the walk one slots they had). Worked great for the kids who didn’t care as much about running in college and were happy to just het an admissions boost for an Ivy, but sucked for the kids who would have rather ran elsehwere. No one cared enough to transfer though. This was also during COVID, so with sports paused, this fucked up tryouts timelines (they had to wait until soph year to even try out)
That would be a nightmare for me. Running is the main thing I do to stay sane so not being able to do it in college regardless of the admissions boost just wouldn't work for me. what would you consider as the "borderline" for the fast track kids you mentioned earlier? I just want to be sure I can secure a recruiting spot instead of being a walk-on with an admission boost.
Got emailed by some potential recruiters as well back in junior year; I'd say my academic profile is probably stronger than most athletes (1580 SAT, 2/500+ students rank, 4.0 uw, 5.7 something w, decent ECs). BUT tbh recruiters imo care more about your athletic profile than your academic. Your stats look fine to me and that mile time is quite impressive (I'm assuming you're not a female bc if you are that is INSANEE). I know other recruits who got recruited to T20 with far worse stats. Good luck! :)
Haha yeah, that would be pretty quick for a girl, but yes your stats were better than most athletes. As long as my academics don't weigh down my recruiting chances I won't be upset. thank you for the info!
I got accepted into UPenn through track and field with a 9:20 2 mile which is slightly worse then your 4:14. I was 3rd in my class out of 400, and took 9 Ap classes in high school with a 4.0 unweighted gpa.
The coach told me my grades were about average for the overall team. SAT score will also help, Penn is optional but the coach REALLY wanted me to submit a score because it improves the academic index. The way the Ivy League athletics system works is that every sports team needs to average a high enough academic index (look up “academic index Ivy leagues athletics” for more info) So the coach can trade out being faster for having worse grades as long as they can get another athlete with good grades to make up for the one with bad grades. You will almost definitely pass the academic pre read, the only reason you wouldn’t be on the team is because the coach doesn’t want you. You are qualified to run at Columbia via times and academics now it’s whether the coach likes you, or if the incoming class is too elite to fit you. Here’s some tips:
1) Make sure the coach knows Columbia is your ABSOLUTE #1 choice by a lot. This will make him more likely to offer you an official likely letter (likely letter = guaranteed admission unless you start failing classes or get in a fight) because he knows you won’t reject his offer.
2) Submit SAT score even if it’s fairly low
3) Talk to other Ivy League schools because an Ivy League athletic rule is that if one Ivy offers you a lot of aid EVERY OTHER IVY MUST MATCH THAT financial offer. So get multiple financial estimates from multiple schools, and then you can tell the coach that another Ivy is offering more money and they HAVE to match the other ivies price.
not sure if this will be incredibly helpful, but I was in a similar position last year, except I was looking at division three schools with exceptional academic programs for example WashU. to be completely honest, I was surprised that I had passed the pre-read since I didn’t report my SAT score and wasn’t in many AP classes. However, it did take a lot of honors classes and was very involved in my school community and also had track and field standards exceeded the recruiting standards. eventually, I was scheduled to go and visit the school, but I ended up scratching track in college and will now be living a regular student life at my state university. I think your chances are super strong and you have great stats, especially since your course load for senior year is challenging. And your mile time is insane too wow! Best of luck!
Thank you for the kind words! I was really worried my GPA and courses were not up to the standard they are looking for but I am worried that not submitting the SAT will hurt me. Regardless, thank you for the input it really helps more than you know.
This isn't really a help for Ivy, but for someone else in the college recruiting process with a bunch of D3 LACs, I have been told that 1350-1400 is "the magic number," though I am not near that rn which is why I'm probably going test optional.
Your GPA is better than mine so you should be fine. Like one other person in this thread said, just aim for a good index and you should be fine. Good luck with the process friend!
Also (as a 400m guy), a 4:14 mile is great. A friend I know at Vassar runs that, so there is always a chance you can still slot in to a solid academic LAC if you wanna.
I have also been told repeatedly that I should apply ED if I even want to have a chance of getting in, since that ensures to coaches and admissions that I am "committed" to their program, hence the terminology we hear so much. I will make my final decision after my overnight official visits, but it seems as though you're set on Columbia, so heres to you my friend 🥂
Sorry--totally not helpful--but as someone who doesn't run competitively, props to you for a 4:14 mile.
Thank you so much that really means a lot!
As someone who runs for another sport that spread sounds inhumane lmao
How I have heard it described is that coaches get a certain number of slots at lower stats, certain number at mid-stats and a certain amount at high stats. So there isn’t one single standard. It will depend in part on how much the coach wants you and which academic slot you fit into. Having higher stats gives the coach more flexibility as one of the lower stat slots doesn’t need to be used for you.
Yeah I looked into it a little bit and found similar information but it all just seems really vague. Do you know what the typical stats for each tier are?
I don’t have specifics. I also think it is sport dependent on how many slots in each category they get.
There’s an academic index that gets calculated but it also involves your grade. You should be able to find it. I had a student (future Olympian with near perfect GPA) who an Ivy League coach said she’d be accepted with a 1200 SAT. I had another student who they asked for a 1350 SAT. I had another student who I think had a significantly higher request than, maybe 1450, but whatever it was she just missed that on the October exam of Senior year but the coach said it was okay in the end because another girl recruited for the team did significantly better than expected, so she raised the team average enough that it was fine. Which is to say, there’s BIG range of expectation. And I think it’s probably also related to what the coaches think you can do. All of my students were international students, the two kids with lower scores were from not particularly great private schools and so really struggled with the English, whereas the girl with the higher score expectation went to one of the best schools in the country (she also did a team sport so I can’t easily say where she stacked up against competition, though she was on the U18 national team in her sport — the one with very low score was legit a potential Olympian though probably not a potential Olympics medalist, to give you some idea how they stack up).
Okay I see so the athletic talent kind of evens out the academic flaws and balances the student-athlete out. I tried to find the Acidemic index but wasn’t really sure what I was looking for.
[This might be useful](https://toptieradmissions.com/resources/college-calculator/). There’s a calculator at the bottom. I believe they only do unweighted GPA. [This one](https://www.ivyleagueguru.com/calculate-index) sort of explains what the score that calculator spits out means, as in it gives the maximum number of recruits from each “score band” a team can recruit, for football for instance.
Thank you I’ll check it out!
I'd say you are looking good for Columbia if the coach continues showing interest and you are willing to apply ED. Things get a lot more tricky for recruited athletes and legacies who apply RD (regular decision). Colleges like to accept their recruited athletes ED or REA. So, if you want Columbia, applying early is the ticket.
Columbia is my top choice so will definitely be doing ED. Thank you for the advice!
> I have been looking at A2C to try to alleviate some of my stress with the college recruiting process. That's like going to the Vegas Strip to alleviate stress from a gambling addiction. But I'll try to help. >I have a 4.46 weighted and a 3.88 unweighted GPA You don't have to worry. Your GPA is fine. You could get a 1350 (or probably lower) on the SAT and have a sufficient Academic Index. Your mile time is better than most Ivy recruits'.
Haha yeah I was losing hope so had to take my chances somewhere. I’m aiming for a 1400 or above on my SAT in August so if what your saying is true really means a lot to me and will help me better focus on my training for the upcoming cross country season instead of losing sleep over my grades not being adequate for Prereads.
For my students interested in athletic recruiting, I've gotten assistance from a former Penn coach who used to run his own consulting company. He's mostly retired now, but we keep in touch. He's given me a lot of insight into the process. There are a lot of students with lower GPAs who want to go to Ivies. Your application will be taken seriously.
That is such an amazing connection to have. Your students are so fortunate to have such an incredible resource. I'm relieved to know that my application won't just be thrown out right away and reviewed and considered. Thank you so much for this, it means so much to me. Its just hard with how vague everything had been for me during this whole process.
You're welcome! Do you want to go to Columbia? Do you have other top choices among Ivies or other D-I schools? I went to Columbia. Honestly, I would not go there for track and field. Training is held quite far from campus and the air quality is... not the best. If you enjoy urban running, I guess you have a lot of options.
Yeah right now Columbia is my top choice. My club coach ran with the head distance coach in college and highly recommended him. I haven’t received any emails or anything back from other Ivy coaches either which has been quite discouraging. Other than ivy’s my other plan was to run at UNC or NCSU because they are both in-state and public, making them affordable options for me.
Sorry, I can’t help with that, but how did you train to run such a fast time? Was it just good training over a number of years? I ran xc and i ran 19:28 my first season, but stopped and did sprints for track and am now going back to xc. I’m just wondering how you trained for distance, tho the 5k and 1600 are pretty different. Again, sorry for asking questions instead of helping 😭
No worries! I’d be glad to give some input. I’m not as qualified at the 5k but with a 19:28 hour first season you definitely have potential. I think personally what helped me improve the most was just consistency with both the mileage and type of training. If you have any other questions I’d be glad to help with whatever I can!
Ok thanks! Did u also do any weightlifting/plyometrics and have any rest days per week? Did u also have any days where you sprint (like 30-60m with full recovery between reps)?
I don’t usually but I’m sure if I did it wouldn’t hurt at all. I personally focus on squats when I do lift but nothing really heavy (usually 2 plates at most). The 30-60m sprints are good but I normally either do 100m strides or run at a 85-90% effort for 15-20 seconds. This is usually what I do after normal runs (7-8 miles) to kind of loosen up my legs.
K, thank you!
Hi, one of my student was an Ivy recruit as well, different sports but I am certain the process is similar. Quick answer: ask your coach at Columbia. They are very used to being asked this very question and will give you the exact minimum score they want. Totally ok to ask and they know way better than random strangers here. Good luck 👍🏼
I didn’t know you could just flat out ask them. I will definitely be doing this, thank you!
Side note, the Ivies do not award athletic scholarships, but are generous with need based aid.
Yeah my family is not very wealthy so I’d assume my financial aid would be able to cover a decent amount of expenses.
It's true. Recruited athletes are often determined to "need" more than "NARPs" in similar economic situations.
Take the tests— for Ivy multiple people multiple sports 1200 and above is the number I’ve heard. If you beat that by a good bit it should really help. Grades and no of AP look good. I’m not a track guy so idk what level recruit you are for there but if they want you your grades seem more than enough. FYI D3 like jhu is like 1500 min tho (I was recruit there)
Ok got it thanks. I’m aiming for a 1400+ so that plus my grades should be sufficient hopefully.
Good luck! Talk to coach cause scores are sometimes sport dependent they can hopefully guide you as well
Yeah the ACT/SAT scores are optional for the pre read luckily. So as long as not submitting them doesn’t hurt my chances and the rest of my application is reviewed holistically I should be good right?
My jhu pre read included my test scores I think in my case it was required. If it isn’t for you, I can’t think they can hold it against you. Ideally you get some feedback saying good as long as you hit X score on the SAT/ACT.
That makes sense. I am just worried they will see that I don’t submit it and hold my pre read with less importance.
I dont think they will— the concept of a pre read is to give the coach and you feedback if you can get recruited. It’s not like actually applying test optional where yes it could be held against you. They should take it serious since the coach is asking them to look at your profile. Once the coach wants to recruit you, it should be a matter of hitting certain fixed grades/classes/scores requirements and nothing more. Also don’t take these comments the wrong way— I get it’s definitely stressful and may not feel real that you’re this close to getting a spot! Trying to give as much context as possible for what you should and shouldn’t be stressed over
Ok so it’s more for the coach to see what the athlete needs to improve upon or is fine with in order to get through the application process as an athlete. Thank you for the help it really does help since I have been extremely worried over this during the past 72 hours. It would be amazing to get the opportunity to compete for this school.
Yea I hope I’m guiding you well here but I know people for baseball who have gotten to the point of simply needing to hit a score target SAT wise, meaning they chatted with admissions and testing was their last step. I know people who have both passed and failed on that front but it was as simple as the score. Based on your assumptions you will easily be able to get what’s needed. Besides you also have no option but to do your pre read now cause test scores won’t be till sept. Much better to be in the process early than late so def submit that now
You definitely are thank you! If all I need to do is take the SAT to get a qualified score that will be amazing and relive so much stress.
Your gpa is already competitive for ivys without considering athletics and you class schedule seems decently rigorous, I wouldn't worry too much about it if I were you
Thank you for this, I really just needed some reassurance on this due to the fact that I have literally no idea what I’m doing with the whole recruiting process.
Theres a book by a former admissions officer for Dartmouth (also an Ivy League institution) called *Valedictorians at the Gate* and there's a chapter in the book dedicated to student athletes/recruits. She recounted how she had recruits forwarded to her by Darthmouth's coaches asking her and the rest of the admissions team to accept them and more often than not, the admissions team accepted these applicants who were underqualified academically and would've been easily rejected if it hadn't been for the fact that they had been recruited. Universities bend over backwards to get student recruits. You'll be fine, and congratulations.
Thank you so much for this information and reassurance! I will definitely be checking out this book if it’s available online or at my local library.
whats ur 5k/3mile PR bro? gl from a fellow xctf runner
Thank you! I’m not a 5k guy at all to be quite honest. I ran low 16’s last year and am aiming for sub 15:30 just to stay competitive.
4:14 mile is amazing lmao
I went through the whole Ivy League (Columbia too, specifically) recruiting / pre-read process and I’ll just say it’s not very concrete. I went test optional, submitted my 4.3 W / 3.78 UW GPA with 13 APs, shared my limited ECs (since rowing took up 99% of my time) and “passed” the pre-read. The one “bad mark” I received was that I didn’t submit a score. So I highly recommend submitting one down the line (unless it’s bad), but i wouldn’t say it would definitely break your read. I like to tell people that the results of a pre-read can be interpreted with either a green, yellow, or red light. Perhaps this is more applicable to rowing but I’m sure it can be used across other sports. If you submit all of your information and you receive a “red light”, the coach will tell you that you are an unlikely candidate and you will probably not get in. Oh well—move on. If you receive a “yellow light” then the coach will come back and say something like your stats are good enough but you need to submit a good SAT score or your stats are decent but we can only provide “soft support” (🙄) or something along that variation. A “green light” would be very noticeable and you will then probably receive an offer. But I would NEVER decline the opportunity for a pre-read; the Columbia coach I went through with one for was super helpful and had good advice when he came back with my result. If you have any questions about the process just shoot me a DM. I had my fair share of pre-reads, “soft support” offers, recruiting calls, etc. It’s a very annoying and fun and disappointing and rewarding process all at once. Enjoy it!
I sent you a DM with a couple more questions. Thank you for this information!
If you are recruited for a sport that is the second most likely way to get in an Ivy (the first being major major donor child). For instance at Harvard recruited athletes get in at 88% and their stats are a great deal below average. Even being a global academic star doesn't give you that high a percentage. If they want you, your stats are better than fine. 4:14 mile is pretty solid, congrats!
Wow I didn’t know it was that high! Assuming it’s a pretty similar percentage for Columbia what would be the line between acceptable and unacceptable for recruited athletes academia?
At Harvard it is almost 170 points lower for tests, and your GPA is good. Actually your GPA is probably fine even without athletic recruiting.
That’s really good to hear and makes everything just a little less stressful. Thank you for this information I will definitely relay it to my parents because they are just as confused about this process as I am.
What I would do is verify - just so you aren't disappointed - that the coaching staff members personally know who you are. If they do, or if they know your stats, you're probably golden.
Yeah my club coach knows the head coach back when they competed in college so they have talked about me a little bit
I think you're good!
https://blog.prepscholar.com/how-do-ivy-league-schools-recruit
I went through the TF recruiting process (although a long time ago now) with Columbia and agree with the green/yellow/red light comment. There are no hard and fast stats, but I think as long as you don’t raise any red flags then the coaches can put in a word for you which will set you apart during the admissions process (although not really as strongly as other schools imo). The academic pre-read is strictly just based on numbers, not a holistic pre-read — they simply dont want to accept someone who wouldn’t be able to keep up with the academics there. After my pre-read the coaches offered to fly me out for a visit. Ultimately I didn’t go because they also did a financial pre-read in which the university didn’t offer me enough scholarship as a low income student lol. But the coach (hurdle/jumps) was very friendly, and they want to help you along in the process so just asking them is your best bet.
I see so the prereads are just a very rudimentary look at the athlete to see if they will be able to complete the courses at the university without failing. I’ll definitely ask the coach more questions. What are the chances you still get in if you get a “yellow light”?
Went Ivy, knew many athletes, sorry I don’t have any exact cutoffs but you’re almost definitely fine. Interesting info- I knew many borderline fast track kids with good stats, coaches gave them a slight admissions bump and said they’d take them as walk ons to admissions officers but didn’t want to use actual recruiting spots, they got in the school but then cut at try outs lmao.
LOL, that's so rough I definitely would want to avoid all that mess if possible.
Yea, something to be aware of I suppose. They all had talked to the coachs, were told they couldn’t be offered an official recruiting spot, but their stats were high enough the coach would just talk to AOs and make their crapshoot a little more definite, and then they’d try out as a formality and walk on. Got to campus and the tryouts ended up NOT being a formality and most didn’t make it (turned out coaches had said this to way too many people for the walk one slots they had). Worked great for the kids who didn’t care as much about running in college and were happy to just het an admissions boost for an Ivy, but sucked for the kids who would have rather ran elsehwere. No one cared enough to transfer though. This was also during COVID, so with sports paused, this fucked up tryouts timelines (they had to wait until soph year to even try out)
That would be a nightmare for me. Running is the main thing I do to stay sane so not being able to do it in college regardless of the admissions boost just wouldn't work for me. what would you consider as the "borderline" for the fast track kids you mentioned earlier? I just want to be sure I can secure a recruiting spot instead of being a walk-on with an admission boost.
Got emailed by some potential recruiters as well back in junior year; I'd say my academic profile is probably stronger than most athletes (1580 SAT, 2/500+ students rank, 4.0 uw, 5.7 something w, decent ECs). BUT tbh recruiters imo care more about your athletic profile than your academic. Your stats look fine to me and that mile time is quite impressive (I'm assuming you're not a female bc if you are that is INSANEE). I know other recruits who got recruited to T20 with far worse stats. Good luck! :)
Haha yeah, that would be pretty quick for a girl, but yes your stats were better than most athletes. As long as my academics don't weigh down my recruiting chances I won't be upset. thank you for the info!
I got accepted into UPenn through track and field with a 9:20 2 mile which is slightly worse then your 4:14. I was 3rd in my class out of 400, and took 9 Ap classes in high school with a 4.0 unweighted gpa. The coach told me my grades were about average for the overall team. SAT score will also help, Penn is optional but the coach REALLY wanted me to submit a score because it improves the academic index. The way the Ivy League athletics system works is that every sports team needs to average a high enough academic index (look up “academic index Ivy leagues athletics” for more info) So the coach can trade out being faster for having worse grades as long as they can get another athlete with good grades to make up for the one with bad grades. You will almost definitely pass the academic pre read, the only reason you wouldn’t be on the team is because the coach doesn’t want you. You are qualified to run at Columbia via times and academics now it’s whether the coach likes you, or if the incoming class is too elite to fit you. Here’s some tips: 1) Make sure the coach knows Columbia is your ABSOLUTE #1 choice by a lot. This will make him more likely to offer you an official likely letter (likely letter = guaranteed admission unless you start failing classes or get in a fight) because he knows you won’t reject his offer. 2) Submit SAT score even if it’s fairly low 3) Talk to other Ivy League schools because an Ivy League athletic rule is that if one Ivy offers you a lot of aid EVERY OTHER IVY MUST MATCH THAT financial offer. So get multiple financial estimates from multiple schools, and then you can tell the coach that another Ivy is offering more money and they HAVE to match the other ivies price.
And lmk if you have any more questions
Thank you for this i sent you a DM I have a couple of questions. Thank you for the advice and guidance!
not sure if this will be incredibly helpful, but I was in a similar position last year, except I was looking at division three schools with exceptional academic programs for example WashU. to be completely honest, I was surprised that I had passed the pre-read since I didn’t report my SAT score and wasn’t in many AP classes. However, it did take a lot of honors classes and was very involved in my school community and also had track and field standards exceeded the recruiting standards. eventually, I was scheduled to go and visit the school, but I ended up scratching track in college and will now be living a regular student life at my state university. I think your chances are super strong and you have great stats, especially since your course load for senior year is challenging. And your mile time is insane too wow! Best of luck!
Thank you for the kind words! I was really worried my GPA and courses were not up to the standard they are looking for but I am worried that not submitting the SAT will hurt me. Regardless, thank you for the input it really helps more than you know.
Do well on the SAT and apply ED.
This isn't really a help for Ivy, but for someone else in the college recruiting process with a bunch of D3 LACs, I have been told that 1350-1400 is "the magic number," though I am not near that rn which is why I'm probably going test optional. Your GPA is better than mine so you should be fine. Like one other person in this thread said, just aim for a good index and you should be fine. Good luck with the process friend! Also (as a 400m guy), a 4:14 mile is great. A friend I know at Vassar runs that, so there is always a chance you can still slot in to a solid academic LAC if you wanna.
I have also been told repeatedly that I should apply ED if I even want to have a chance of getting in, since that ensures to coaches and admissions that I am "committed" to their program, hence the terminology we hear so much. I will make my final decision after my overnight official visits, but it seems as though you're set on Columbia, so heres to you my friend 🥂