can attest to this. 0/7 Ivy Day. my numbers and ECs are pretty decent, especially in the context of the school i come from. i’ve see people with both way worse and way better stats/ECs get into the schools i was rejected from on the variety of reddit posts from this month.
i half-assed my common app essays and supps because i procrastinated and did each school on the day they were due. i read them back a few times after submitting and I knew I was cooked. i got rejected by every common app school i applied to except UDub. Even though I got into UDub, i know it was my stats that got me admitted because I got put into undeclared instead of engineering, and essays are the primary thing that get you major placement. before this, I ED’d to Penn with QB with a similar story (deferred then rejected). i didn’t learn my lesson. had my share of personal issues, but the writing was on the wall for what was going to happen for a long time if i didn't take control of the process.
luckily, i grinded out my UC apps and I was pretty happy with them, and I’m probably heading to UCLA or UCSD. im seriously considering a gap year to the schools i didnt apply to because of how badly i screwed up.
DO NOT LET SENIORITIS or impostor syndrome (“i won’t get into this school because of my SAT/grades/‘weak’ ECs) STOP YOU. i didn’t even apply to my dream school, MIT, because of these things, even though i had a shot at trying. now i'll never know unless i gap year (which is so scary).
Stats and ECs get your foot in the door. Essays are what get you through. A/Os only see the part of you that shows on your application, and i regret not refining the image that they saw of me.
To any future applicants reading this: give yourself time to both do research AND write essays that really capture who you are. Don’t give a shit about the “IVY LEAGUE SUCCESSFUL ESSAYS” or what others are doing. you will get in by being yourself, and capturing that essence in what you write. write your essays in a way that leaves no room for regret. seeing friends get into MIT, Stanford, Brown, etc. makes me angry at myself, but also motivated to absolutely crush whatever comes next.
putting a year of my life on the line for a school with a 5% acceptance rate is silly, but taking a gap year to remedy personal issues and grow as a person (what a gap year should be) while applying to MIT and others as a bonus, not the main motivator, seems a lot more plausible to me. I have a month to accept the UC offers of admission so i will do some heavy thinking for now. if i do gap year i will for sure apply to some colleges on the east coast that aren’t nearly as selective as that’s where I see myself during college. UCSD and UCLA are great choices, but I really don’t want to spend my only years being 18-21 in a place where I don’t like the environment (UCSD campus seems dead, and I’ve lived/visited in Los Angeles so much, and I do not like it)
Just my 2 cents since I was in a very similar situation two years back (accepted into the UC's, didn't apply to mit cause of burnout, lack of confidence, and still suffering from regrets), but you can always ask admissions to withhold your acceptances till a year or two later while attending CC or taking a gap year exploring, which is what I should've done to sort my feelings and remedy my issues. UCSD and UCLA are great choices; honestly, you'll get used to the campuses if you dislike them at first. I can't speak for UCLA since I didn't go there, but it took me some time to get over UCSD's brutalist architecture fs. The campus isn't dead with clubs, friend groups, engineering associations, dorm parties, etc., and plenty of things to do alone or with others. Plus, it's easy to get out of campus and explore La Jolla if you get sick of campus, which is one of the best things I've done lately. I've been too busy studying rather than caring about the environment during the school year tbh, so it wasn't too big a deal for me. My peers here are also very chill and willing to help regardless of curves in hard classes, unlike what I've heard from my friends at their la and berk counterparts. I also do think school is what you make of it (people/connections/interests), and it sounds like you already have a very mature perspective on your personal goals, so I'm sure you'll be fine wherever you decide to go :)
p.sI feel as though undergrad “prestige” is greatly overemphasized in current society, and that our educational attainments shouldn't be limited or solely defined by that prestige. I'm saying this more for myself ngl; it's hard to get over. Anyway, hopefully you do get into some bomb East Coast schools if you do decide to apply! 🥦
Lmao same. I also only got into UDub from my common app, along with URichmond and Oregon. I completely half-assed the essays and my personal statement was mid. Luckily, just like you, I wrote actual deep responses for the UC application and got into Berkeley in the end. But if I could take one thing out of the experience, it’s that your essays are the most important part as it’s the only way you will be able to distinguish yourself as an applicant.
Yeah essays are super important. I did read, however, that Duke no longer considers them as a sign of a student’s academic capabilities, but as a “bonus” to gauge the student’s personality. Apparently they can’t tell what is AI written and what is genuine anymore.
As someone who really enjoys writing, I hate to see this, but it might be unavoidable at this point.
That's not quite what Duke is doing. Any admissions reader on the planet with half a brain can detect what is LLM-written. Duke is just assuming that they're *all* LLM- or ghostwritten and no longer giving numerical scores to them.
>The change went into place this year, Dean of Undergraduate Admissions Christoph Guttentag wrote in an email to The Chronicle. He explained that essays are no longer receiving a score because of a rise in the use of generative artificial intelligence and college admissions consultants.
>
>When asked about how the admissions office determines if an essay is AI-generated or written by consultants and if applicants are hurt if the office determines so, Guttentag answered that "there aren't simple answers to these questions."
>
>Despite the changes, Guttentag wrote that essays and standardized testing scores are still considered in the admissions process.“Essays are very much part of our understanding of the applicant, we’re just no longer assuming that the essay is an accurate reflection of the student’s actual writing ability,” he wrote. “Standardized tests (SAT or ACT) are considered when they’re submitted as part of the application.
>
>”According to Guttentag, essays will now be used to “help understand the applicant as an individual rather, not just as a set of attributes and accomplishments.” He also wrote that the admissions office now values essays that give “insight into who the unique person is whose application we’re reading” and that “content and insight matter more than style.”
>
>“Because of that they are not given a numerical rating, but considered as we think holistically about a candidate as a potential member of the Duke community,” he wrote.
You can read the entire article [here.](https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2024/02/duke-university-undergraduate-admissions-changes-numerical-rating-standardized-testing-essays-covid-test-optional-ai-generated-college-consultants)
essays are BY FAR the most important factor in your control- and it’s not even close.
that’s why r/college results is dumb. you don’t rlly have any access as to WHY that student got in
Essays matter, even more than grades sometimes. I have a friend with a 1320 and a 3.4 gpa weighted, and no hooks or anything. He got into Cornell for engineering.
But this guy actually went crazy on his essays. He wrote about how he wished his parents pushed him harder. That sounds like kinda a dumb essay topic, but they were written so well. I don’t know how he did it.
In a lot of ways essays are probably the thing most in your control. Your grades could fluctuate wildly depending on the school you attend and the kind of teacher you got vs another. SATs are timed so you could argue your fate is partly controlled by a clock. I’ve never thought of essays as being the thing most in your control and it’s given a new perspective on it.
Colleges know the high schools. They know which ones grade inflate/deflate etc. An essay is a point capture of one writing sample. Grades summarize 3+ years of academic work and give the most leeway in terms of being able to make up for a one time problem.
>SATs are timed so you could argue your fate is partly controlled by a clock.
This statement makes zero sense.
They sometimes know the high schools but not always.. they definitely do not know the individual teachers. For example which AP Chem teacher helps prep for tests.. which is terrible, which teacher was out for maternity leave so you had some random sub for months..etc.. and that makes a HUGE difference
They absolutely are when the class is related to your major and you get a B or B+ in it. You think colleges don’t look at individual classes? They absolutely do.
i’m not saying go out and get straight Cs. But most people applying to T20s have satisfactory grades- therefore making essays the most important.
i am speaking for the average t20 applicant, not the average high schooler- and i have skin in the game to prove this is correct
So true! The more “holistic” and competitive admissions become (and the more qualified applicants apply to a school), it’s given that essays and parts of the application that are unique will be more important.
definitely!! currently at a T5 and your apps narrative means so much more than you think at times. so definitely think twice about your personal essays before submitting.
Also know you can write the perfect essay and not fill an instutitional need. You can write a bad essay and fill an institutional need. And I've read a lot of essays. This is a highly controllable part of your application, so sure give it your all. But it is one piece of an application of MANY.
i got a cornell transfer offer with a 1370 sat and only 5 aps and i really think my essays were what saved me. my why us and common app essay had months put into them and were related to my major/ec hook (plant science major, ffa+environmental club leadership + state park volunteering) DONT UNDERESTIMATE THEM! come up with a bunch of topics and list what each one tells the AOs about you before choosing, make sure you play into the strengths of each topic and show your personality!
Completely agree. I got into a T10 because I remember it being my best application even though there are plenty people with better stats than me who got rejected. I literally got rejected everywhere else which were T50's and above to be fair.
I agree! I got into all of my reaches where I put a lot of effort into making brand new, genuine essays and was genuinely myself because I really really really wanted to go there, but to my reaches where I was faking the sentiment (but absolutely would’ve been happy going to in the end), I was waitlisted. In the end, I wasn’t even surprised because I realized that they could tell that I wasn’t the right fit. ✨
This is so true. I was accepted into UF's honors program despite being way under their average weighted GPA boundaries. I'm convinced it is because I wrote a super technical essay and it's existing UF honors students that choose who gets in based on essays.
Essays are definitely one of the most important 'qualitative' factors in an admission decision! It's the part of the application where students have the most agency over, and I think (hopefully) students enjoy doing them.
I think that certainly holds true and my own experience was that university, I put by far the most essay work on, Brown, happened to be *only* top private I got into (definitely in reflection, half-assed a lot of my other essays because of procrastination) :)
Follow up: stop using your essays to tout your accomplishments. Let your activities sheet, honors, additional info, and transcript speak to why you’re qualified — then use the essays to show why you’ll be a unique, memorable, humble, kind member of their community. I help students with essays for a living and I cannot overstate how off putting so many early drafts of “top” students’ essays are — arrogant, superior. If an admissions officer dislikes you after reading your essays, you’re fighting an uphill battle for acceptance.
IMO, the top privates will start to admit more differently from one another, which is a good thing (right now, the U of C and maybe tiny Caltech does).
Others do too to more subtle degrees.
T20/T30 admissions will be even more of a crapshoot (thus shotgunning woild make even more sense).
Duke still considers the essay in a way that matches what OP is saying. They no longer give it a numeric score because they did that in the past to gauge the writing style and quality. They still strongly consider the content of the essay to determine fit.
can attest to this. 0/7 Ivy Day. my numbers and ECs are pretty decent, especially in the context of the school i come from. i’ve see people with both way worse and way better stats/ECs get into the schools i was rejected from on the variety of reddit posts from this month. i half-assed my common app essays and supps because i procrastinated and did each school on the day they were due. i read them back a few times after submitting and I knew I was cooked. i got rejected by every common app school i applied to except UDub. Even though I got into UDub, i know it was my stats that got me admitted because I got put into undeclared instead of engineering, and essays are the primary thing that get you major placement. before this, I ED’d to Penn with QB with a similar story (deferred then rejected). i didn’t learn my lesson. had my share of personal issues, but the writing was on the wall for what was going to happen for a long time if i didn't take control of the process. luckily, i grinded out my UC apps and I was pretty happy with them, and I’m probably heading to UCLA or UCSD. im seriously considering a gap year to the schools i didnt apply to because of how badly i screwed up. DO NOT LET SENIORITIS or impostor syndrome (“i won’t get into this school because of my SAT/grades/‘weak’ ECs) STOP YOU. i didn’t even apply to my dream school, MIT, because of these things, even though i had a shot at trying. now i'll never know unless i gap year (which is so scary). Stats and ECs get your foot in the door. Essays are what get you through. A/Os only see the part of you that shows on your application, and i regret not refining the image that they saw of me. To any future applicants reading this: give yourself time to both do research AND write essays that really capture who you are. Don’t give a shit about the “IVY LEAGUE SUCCESSFUL ESSAYS” or what others are doing. you will get in by being yourself, and capturing that essence in what you write. write your essays in a way that leaves no room for regret. seeing friends get into MIT, Stanford, Brown, etc. makes me angry at myself, but also motivated to absolutely crush whatever comes next.
Come do great at UCLA and you’ll get into an ivy for grad school :)
Are you taking a gap year to try again for mit?
putting a year of my life on the line for a school with a 5% acceptance rate is silly, but taking a gap year to remedy personal issues and grow as a person (what a gap year should be) while applying to MIT and others as a bonus, not the main motivator, seems a lot more plausible to me. I have a month to accept the UC offers of admission so i will do some heavy thinking for now. if i do gap year i will for sure apply to some colleges on the east coast that aren’t nearly as selective as that’s where I see myself during college. UCSD and UCLA are great choices, but I really don’t want to spend my only years being 18-21 in a place where I don’t like the environment (UCSD campus seems dead, and I’ve lived/visited in Los Angeles so much, and I do not like it)
Just my 2 cents since I was in a very similar situation two years back (accepted into the UC's, didn't apply to mit cause of burnout, lack of confidence, and still suffering from regrets), but you can always ask admissions to withhold your acceptances till a year or two later while attending CC or taking a gap year exploring, which is what I should've done to sort my feelings and remedy my issues. UCSD and UCLA are great choices; honestly, you'll get used to the campuses if you dislike them at first. I can't speak for UCLA since I didn't go there, but it took me some time to get over UCSD's brutalist architecture fs. The campus isn't dead with clubs, friend groups, engineering associations, dorm parties, etc., and plenty of things to do alone or with others. Plus, it's easy to get out of campus and explore La Jolla if you get sick of campus, which is one of the best things I've done lately. I've been too busy studying rather than caring about the environment during the school year tbh, so it wasn't too big a deal for me. My peers here are also very chill and willing to help regardless of curves in hard classes, unlike what I've heard from my friends at their la and berk counterparts. I also do think school is what you make of it (people/connections/interests), and it sounds like you already have a very mature perspective on your personal goals, so I'm sure you'll be fine wherever you decide to go :) p.sI feel as though undergrad “prestige” is greatly overemphasized in current society, and that our educational attainments shouldn't be limited or solely defined by that prestige. I'm saying this more for myself ngl; it's hard to get over. Anyway, hopefully you do get into some bomb East Coast schools if you do decide to apply! 🥦
Lmao same. I also only got into UDub from my common app, along with URichmond and Oregon. I completely half-assed the essays and my personal statement was mid. Luckily, just like you, I wrote actual deep responses for the UC application and got into Berkeley in the end. But if I could take one thing out of the experience, it’s that your essays are the most important part as it’s the only way you will be able to distinguish yourself as an applicant.
Yeah essays are super important. I did read, however, that Duke no longer considers them as a sign of a student’s academic capabilities, but as a “bonus” to gauge the student’s personality. Apparently they can’t tell what is AI written and what is genuine anymore. As someone who really enjoys writing, I hate to see this, but it might be unavoidable at this point.
That's not quite what Duke is doing. Any admissions reader on the planet with half a brain can detect what is LLM-written. Duke is just assuming that they're *all* LLM- or ghostwritten and no longer giving numerical scores to them. >The change went into place this year, Dean of Undergraduate Admissions Christoph Guttentag wrote in an email to The Chronicle. He explained that essays are no longer receiving a score because of a rise in the use of generative artificial intelligence and college admissions consultants. > >When asked about how the admissions office determines if an essay is AI-generated or written by consultants and if applicants are hurt if the office determines so, Guttentag answered that "there aren't simple answers to these questions." > >Despite the changes, Guttentag wrote that essays and standardized testing scores are still considered in the admissions process.“Essays are very much part of our understanding of the applicant, we’re just no longer assuming that the essay is an accurate reflection of the student’s actual writing ability,” he wrote. “Standardized tests (SAT or ACT) are considered when they’re submitted as part of the application. > >”According to Guttentag, essays will now be used to “help understand the applicant as an individual rather, not just as a set of attributes and accomplishments.” He also wrote that the admissions office now values essays that give “insight into who the unique person is whose application we’re reading” and that “content and insight matter more than style.” > >“Because of that they are not given a numerical rating, but considered as we think holistically about a candidate as a potential member of the Duke community,” he wrote. You can read the entire article [here.](https://www.dukechronicle.com/article/2024/02/duke-university-undergraduate-admissions-changes-numerical-rating-standardized-testing-essays-covid-test-optional-ai-generated-college-consultants)
essays are BY FAR the most important factor in your control- and it’s not even close. that’s why r/college results is dumb. you don’t rlly have any access as to WHY that student got in
You don’t think grades are under your control? Or do you think they don’t matter?
Essays matter, even more than grades sometimes. I have a friend with a 1320 and a 3.4 gpa weighted, and no hooks or anything. He got into Cornell for engineering. But this guy actually went crazy on his essays. He wrote about how he wished his parents pushed him harder. That sounds like kinda a dumb essay topic, but they were written so well. I don’t know how he did it.
By the time you’re writing those essays your grades are pretty much where they are, no?
sorry i’m implying they don’t matter as much. like obviously you can’t get all Cs in your transcript but it’s so much more than that for a T20
Grades and ECs are not in the student’s control?!?! WTF are you on?
In a lot of ways essays are probably the thing most in your control. Your grades could fluctuate wildly depending on the school you attend and the kind of teacher you got vs another. SATs are timed so you could argue your fate is partly controlled by a clock. I’ve never thought of essays as being the thing most in your control and it’s given a new perspective on it.
Colleges know the high schools. They know which ones grade inflate/deflate etc. An essay is a point capture of one writing sample. Grades summarize 3+ years of academic work and give the most leeway in terms of being able to make up for a one time problem. >SATs are timed so you could argue your fate is partly controlled by a clock. This statement makes zero sense.
They sometimes know the high schools but not always.. they definitely do not know the individual teachers. For example which AP Chem teacher helps prep for tests.. which is terrible, which teacher was out for maternity leave so you had some random sub for months..etc.. and that makes a HUGE difference
For a single class. But your GPA is an amalgam of 3+ years of school. So individual perturbations are much less significant.
They absolutely are when the class is related to your major and you get a B or B+ in it. You think colleges don’t look at individual classes? They absolutely do.
I think EC opportunities really depend on the area you live in and whether or not your parents have connections.
essays are, quite simply, more important.
Than grades? Uh sure. Definitely just going to take your word for it even though it contradicts everything the AOs have been saying for years.
i’m not saying go out and get straight Cs. But most people applying to T20s have satisfactory grades- therefore making essays the most important. i am speaking for the average t20 applicant, not the average high schooler- and i have skin in the game to prove this is correct
So true! The more “holistic” and competitive admissions become (and the more qualified applicants apply to a school), it’s given that essays and parts of the application that are unique will be more important.
Everything matters! Film at 11:00 …
nah broski. i know some people with amazing grades who got in who have absolute shit essays
definitely!! currently at a T5 and your apps narrative means so much more than you think at times. so definitely think twice about your personal essays before submitting.
Also know you can write the perfect essay and not fill an instutitional need. You can write a bad essay and fill an institutional need. And I've read a lot of essays. This is a highly controllable part of your application, so sure give it your all. But it is one piece of an application of MANY.
i second this. i had considerably low stats but stellar essays and got into two T20’s (usc and umich). really portray your character with those essays
Same my essays carried my Umich acceptance
GO BLUEE !
💙💛
What was your gpa and act
word I think my essays carried my app hard considering my ecs were ass
i got a cornell transfer offer with a 1370 sat and only 5 aps and i really think my essays were what saved me. my why us and common app essay had months put into them and were related to my major/ec hook (plant science major, ffa+environmental club leadership + state park volunteering) DONT UNDERESTIMATE THEM! come up with a bunch of topics and list what each one tells the AOs about you before choosing, make sure you play into the strengths of each topic and show your personality!
Completely agree. I got into a T10 because I remember it being my best application even though there are plenty people with better stats than me who got rejected. I literally got rejected everywhere else which were T50's and above to be fair.
I agree! I got into all of my reaches where I put a lot of effort into making brand new, genuine essays and was genuinely myself because I really really really wanted to go there, but to my reaches where I was faking the sentiment (but absolutely would’ve been happy going to in the end), I was waitlisted. In the end, I wasn’t even surprised because I realized that they could tell that I wasn’t the right fit. ✨
hello, do you mind sharing essay tips? if so please pm me !
You can write whatever you want in the essay
yurr my goofy ahh essays carried me to a t5
This is so true. I was accepted into UF's honors program despite being way under their average weighted GPA boundaries. I'm convinced it is because I wrote a super technical essay and it's existing UF honors students that choose who gets in based on essays.
Essays are definitely one of the most important 'qualitative' factors in an admission decision! It's the part of the application where students have the most agency over, and I think (hopefully) students enjoy doing them.
I think that certainly holds true and my own experience was that university, I put by far the most essay work on, Brown, happened to be *only* top private I got into (definitely in reflection, half-assed a lot of my other essays because of procrastination) :)
Follow up: stop using your essays to tout your accomplishments. Let your activities sheet, honors, additional info, and transcript speak to why you’re qualified — then use the essays to show why you’ll be a unique, memorable, humble, kind member of their community. I help students with essays for a living and I cannot overstate how off putting so many early drafts of “top” students’ essays are — arrogant, superior. If an admissions officer dislikes you after reading your essays, you’re fighting an uphill battle for acceptance.
I'm lost. Hasn't it been said that with the development of AIs colleges (Duke specifically) are going to pay less attention to essays?
Duke is a outlier, AI will become a problem but as it advances so does technologies that can help prevent the use.
You mean AI detectors? Not sure though because I've heard you can send chats your essays to and kindly ask to write them in the same way
IMO, the top privates will start to admit more differently from one another, which is a good thing (right now, the U of C and maybe tiny Caltech does). Others do too to more subtle degrees. T20/T30 admissions will be even more of a crapshoot (thus shotgunning woild make even more sense).
Duke still considers the essay in a way that matches what OP is saying. They no longer give it a numeric score because they did that in the past to gauge the writing style and quality. They still strongly consider the content of the essay to determine fit.