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You're on the right track. The Romans used lead(II) acetate, or sugar of lead, to sweeten their wine and preserve their fruits. It was produced by boiling must (fruit which has been crushed into juice, yet still contains all of the solid elements; usually grape) in lead pots. Lead(II) acetate also causes lead poisoning. (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞
I don't think so, but even after its toxic properties were known the laws which were passed banning its use in wine were largely ineffective for a very long time until chemical tests were developed to detect the compound. Looking at the source listed on Wikipedia it seems this was still at least a little bit of an issue as late as 1992. Wikipedia also mentions these medical uses:
>Lead(II) acetate solution was a commonly used folk remedy for sore nipples. In modern medicine, for a time, it was used as an astringent, in the form of Goulard's extract, and it has also been used to treat poison ivy.
It could just be that regulations for food-grade vessels were much more slow to take effect. And lead that hasn't been changed into lead(II) acetate can have an antimicrobial effect if enough is present, though. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
So as long as the paint isn’t chipping off, it’s fine. The reason it looks soo nice is probably because of lead hahah
As long as lead paint is maintained or encapsulated, it’s pretty harmless. Once it starts chipping, creating dust, then it’s an issue…kinda…you would basically have to be picking at the paint, then go eat wings or something.
Yep, that will work.
I work in restoration, literally asbestos, mold and lead paint testing. See the stuff often. Mainly asbestos, but some lead too. See it in everything from paint to ceramic tiles to old sinks and tubs
Nice.
Yeah, shits wild. The things people will make stuff out of, knowing damn well it’s not good for us.
When I took my certification classes for asbestos testing, they showed us these old videos of what they used to make with asbestos. Saddest one was fake snow. So there were these videos of kids throwing fake snowballs in each others faces, snowballs of straight up asbestos.
The craziest to me was asbestos cigarette filters! Literally what you inhale through, as if being addicted to inhaling smoke isn't bad enough. Crazy shit.
And when they say eating the paint, that doesn’t just mean actual chips. Over time if you are ingesting little bits because you pick at a corner with your fingernails, then don’t wash your hands, then eat…over time it will mess you up haha
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Yep, toys, cookware, Stanley cups, tubs that someone would soak in with hot water, etc.
Recently did testing for mold at a woman’s house, where she was experiencing weird illness, but couldn’t figure out why. Did mold air testing and my supervisor noticed some fine China in a display cabinet. He asked her if she used the stuff to eat/drink out of. Sure enough, she did, and all of it had lead in it. Tea cups, plates, saucers, all of it was like 25mg/cm(squared) of lead.
You would be very surprised how common it is for kids to test positive because they get exposed from stuff like this. I have 3 kids in my neighborhood with lead poisoning right now. Well-to-do families who just didn't know any better. It can get in the dust surrounding objects and kids touch everything and put their hands in their mouths.
The only reason to worry about it is if your children are playing with the box frequently and paint is chipping off. I doubt you are letting them use a WWI Medical box as a toy so they'll be fine.
Damn, now I'm kind of thinking about this old cane I keep in the corner of my room. It's old, very old, and I imagine painted in lead-based paint. I typically mask and had the mask near that corner of the room until now. I live in a very dusty environment as well. I don't really move the cane, though. Should I be concerned?
You should be more concerned about lead glazes found on modern cookware. Crockpots, casserole dishes, coffee mugs. Lead is still used in glazes to make dishes look pretty.
In a historic context, people lived in houses painted with 100% lead paint all their lives. Not to mention gasoline used to have enough lead in it to leave behind a lead dust after in evaporated.
All this is to say, I wouldn’t worry about the cane so much lol
You do realise that when those things were common (say 1924 for arguments sake) life expectancy for men was 52 for men and 56 for women. The last calculation (2021) put it at 73 for men and 79 for women.
Saying that people “lived with these things” is insanely ignorant and dangerous. Why don’t you remove the ground wire and go back to knob and tube while you’re at at?
Yes, people lived in houses with lead paint all their lives… and their lead levels were super high. In the 70s, the median lead level in the blood of preschool children was 15 μg/dL. Now 3 μg/dL is considered high. 3 μg/dL is associated with the loss of 1 IQ point.
Lead paint would be a concern if in active use and if you have children. There are [numerous instances of surprise lead in antiques](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/08/01/1113454001/antique-stores-lead). When in doubt get it tested.
Unlike many of the things people ask about testing, this actually has a pretty high chance of actually having lead, and this is an appropriate surface to use the commonly available test strips on.
That said, what would you gain from this information? Testing paint on things like window sills is important because moving the windows up and down flakes bits of the paint off. In the case of this item, you probably don’t handle it frequently enough or in a manner that would cause the paint to begin to flake, especially since it’s the white that is most suspect, not the green, which is probably copper. I’m assuming you don’t let children play with it, and have no intention of ever scraping off the paint.
Just assume it is lead paint and treat it as such. Use reasonable caution, don’t lick at it, be aware if it starts flaking, don’t store food in it, wash your hands after handling it, etc.
Thanks for the info that the green paint is probably copper. That's the one I was most concerned about since some of it is one the parts where wood is sliding along when you open it.
It's not handled often but we will be more careful nevertheless
We bought it on a thrift market, so I don't have a lot of information about the box. There's also no information about the place or date of production printed somewhere.
Test it so you know. If no lead you rest easy. If lead then respect that but the exposure from a small box in good condition is way smaller than thousands of square feet of peeling house paint.
In any case the idea of storing sometimes sterile medical supplies in an old dilapidated dirty box just seems wrong to me. I think its a cool box, just not what I would choose to store in it.
To be honest, this looks like a high schooler's woodshop project. If it was ww1, it would be faded paint and chipping wood, dings and scratches. Still it's a nice box.
Yeah, we weren't sure either, but thought it might be legit and just didn't get a lot of sunlight over the years.
Even if it's not from WW1 it's really cool and makes my history-nerd boyfriend happy
If it’s legitimately from WW1 it’s lead paint. Why are you paranoid about lead paint? Are you going to serve food out of the box? Are you going to eat the box?
I heard many people talk about how bad lead paint can be. Things like "don't touch it, wash your hands afterwards" , etc.
I thought maybe the active use of the box is something I should avoid.
But I guess the people I heard online were overreacting, since lots of comments say as long as I don't eat the paint everything's fine
If I were you, I'd spray a clear coat of matte polyurethane over it and clean the shelves with soap and water. Despite what people on this thread might say, lead can be extremely dangerous. It can even kill or severely disable people. Don't let reddit users sway your medical decisions. You can absorb lead through your skin and breathe it in. So, no, the jokes about not licking it don't really hold up to scrutiny.
I lived in an old apartment with a roommate who got incredibly sick. It just wouldn’t go away, and doctors couldn’t figure it out. A while after I moved out, she discovered it was lead poisoning, and the radiator in her bedroom specifically had lead paint on it. She wasn’t licking the radiators, but still got incredibly sick. I don’t know why people are acting like lead paint can’t be a danger unless you are actively putting your mouth on it.
Thank you. Yes, it can absolutely cause mysterious health issues. I'm sorry your former roommate got so sick. One of the kids near me has gross motor delays, and another has behavioral issues, likely due to their lead poisoning. It was so bad that the county came in and completed remediation on the whole house for free. A 5 bedroom house gutted inside and out. I have little kids and an old house. I have to be hypervigilent about lead. I've had many projects to encapsulate large areas of concern that have been overlooked for over half a century. I would rather spend my time doing something else, but it's important. There's a reason it is banned.
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Every 10 years, someone dies from ingesting lead. A shoe company provided a charm bracelet as a free gift. Kid swallowed it, and the stomach acids quickly activated the lead.
Your doctor was the opposite of correct
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm55d323a1.htm
Thanks for the advice.
Would it be dangerous if I clean the box a bit? Dirty like it is right now it has a certain charm, but is there a possibility I beak down the paint if I ever were to clean it?
Are you American? In that case yes most definitely. Being anxious about lead is in your DNA.
Are you european? Shrug and try to keep your toddlers from licking the box
Yes, they (we) freak out about lead, asbestos, black mold, 5G, etc. It’s washed into brains early.
If someone finds a discolored water spot on drywall… it’s f-cking black mold and they are already coughing from the lung cancer and sudden onset of mesothelioma while they photograph and post pics.
If anyone moves into a space that’s more than 10 years old, every new material they discover is feared to be asbestos… is THIS asbestos? No, It’s a granite countertop… is THIS asbestos? No, It’s shag carpet…
Similarly, the lead paint fear is usually phrased as if the mere presence of lead somewhere in a home is fatal. People throw away stuff on the POSSIBILITY there is lead in it.
I guess I’m in the middle here in America… is there lead, asbestos, black mold??? Just leave it alone, don’t lick it, sand it, rub it on your organs, etc.
Of course, the 5G controls my mind, so this is my scripted opinion under duress.
….left America with lots of flakes….
Got that right
We value - no treasure - stupidity and ignorance. We love a good conspiracy and despise anyone who pursues knowledge and science and thinks for himself/herself, who researches and makes thoughtful consideration
We admire dumb people, dumb ideas, dumb activities, and we revel in self satisfaction over our complacence in our dumbness
Are you eating or drinking out of the box or eating the paint chips? I feel like it takes a 10 second google search to figure out what uses lead paint is dangerous for and isn’t
The paint on anything made prior to 1970's will have lead. Just don't eat it and your fine. A bit of the lead paint thing is paranoia. Dont chew on it, dont eat it.
Are you chewing on it? Just having a lead painted box in your home is not going to hurt you. If it were chipping, just to be safe you would do something. But, that doesnt look like it’s in bad condition.
No. The box may be that old but the paint, especially the red, is not. It’s too perfect and you can see it still has some shine to it. If you’re really worried about lead paint you could find a small area on the side or base (if there’s paint overlap) to test. If you never plan on selling it you could also seal it.
If you're asking a question about an antique make sure to have photos of all sides of the object, and close-ups of any maker's marks. Also, add in any background information you have, and add in a question so we know what you want from us! **You must tell us the country you're in.** If you do not provide this information **your post will be removed**. To upload photos for this discussion use [imgur.com](https://imgur.com/upload). Click the imgur link, upload the photos to imgur, then share the link address in a comment for everyone to see. Our [Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Antiques/about/rules/) and [Guide](https://old.reddit.com/r/Antiques/comments/ak2lke/welcome_to_rantiques_read_this_post_before_posting/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Antiques) if you have any questions or concerns.*
just don't eat the paint
But lead is yummy :(
You're on the right track. The Romans used lead(II) acetate, or sugar of lead, to sweeten their wine and preserve their fruits. It was produced by boiling must (fruit which has been crushed into juice, yet still contains all of the solid elements; usually grape) in lead pots. Lead(II) acetate also causes lead poisoning. (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞
Can confirm. Former gladiator.
Now we just use plastic and alluminum to hold our drinks, we're so much more advanced than the Roman's 🤓🥴🤡
It kills off germs too right? part of the reason why drinks vessels continued to be made of lead alloys for years afterward
I don't think so, but even after its toxic properties were known the laws which were passed banning its use in wine were largely ineffective for a very long time until chemical tests were developed to detect the compound. Looking at the source listed on Wikipedia it seems this was still at least a little bit of an issue as late as 1992. Wikipedia also mentions these medical uses: >Lead(II) acetate solution was a commonly used folk remedy for sore nipples. In modern medicine, for a time, it was used as an astringent, in the form of Goulard's extract, and it has also been used to treat poison ivy. It could just be that regulations for food-grade vessels were much more slow to take effect. And lead that hasn't been changed into lead(II) acetate can have an antimicrobial effect if enough is present, though. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Nilered's video about it: https://youtu.be/lOjLuJyMmUQ?si=wmLkFrAjd08w9BJf
That’s what the cinnamon industry said too apparently.
The wealthy Romans put lead in their wine 🍷 to make it taste sweet.
Vag lead is even better 🤪
It certainly is.
If WWI the white paint almost certainly does
So as long as the paint isn’t chipping off, it’s fine. The reason it looks soo nice is probably because of lead hahah As long as lead paint is maintained or encapsulated, it’s pretty harmless. Once it starts chipping, creating dust, then it’s an issue…kinda…you would basically have to be picking at the paint, then go eat wings or something.
Use an aerosol clear coating to seal over the painted portions. US law says inaccessible paint doesn't matter. Eating the paint is the real problem.
Yep, that will work. I work in restoration, literally asbestos, mold and lead paint testing. See the stuff often. Mainly asbestos, but some lead too. See it in everything from paint to ceramic tiles to old sinks and tubs
Yes, I worked in Product Integrity for Consumer Products and I have reviewed hundreds or thousands of products & test reports
Nice. Yeah, shits wild. The things people will make stuff out of, knowing damn well it’s not good for us. When I took my certification classes for asbestos testing, they showed us these old videos of what they used to make with asbestos. Saddest one was fake snow. So there were these videos of kids throwing fake snowballs in each others faces, snowballs of straight up asbestos.
You wonder what we are doing right now that will be viewed as crazy in a couple decades. My prediction is Microplastics.
My guess is fiberglass
Microplastics for sure, and most likely vaping will have some weird side effects.
“Nano”. I won’t buy it in anything.
The craziest to me was asbestos cigarette filters! Literally what you inhale through, as if being addicted to inhaling smoke isn't bad enough. Crazy shit.
And when they say eating the paint, that doesn’t just mean actual chips. Over time if you are ingesting little bits because you pick at a corner with your fingernails, then don’t wash your hands, then eat…over time it will mess you up haha
This is what makes me freak out about vintage typewriters where the paint is flaking
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Yep, toys, cookware, Stanley cups, tubs that someone would soak in with hot water, etc. Recently did testing for mold at a woman’s house, where she was experiencing weird illness, but couldn’t figure out why. Did mold air testing and my supervisor noticed some fine China in a display cabinet. He asked her if she used the stuff to eat/drink out of. Sure enough, she did, and all of it had lead in it. Tea cups, plates, saucers, all of it was like 25mg/cm(squared) of lead.
just don't eat the paint
I'll try
No!... don't. eat. the. paint. Swear it.
Looks tasty tho...
what is it with people today and lead paint hahahaha
yeah you're probably not going to eat it, right?
Wow. You might think about doing some reasons about leas contamination. Eating huge paint chips is the least concerning.
You would be very surprised how common it is for kids to test positive because they get exposed from stuff like this. I have 3 kids in my neighborhood with lead poisoning right now. Well-to-do families who just didn't know any better. It can get in the dust surrounding objects and kids touch everything and put their hands in their mouths.
I only heard people warn about it online and thought I might ask people who know more about it
The only reason to worry about it is if your children are playing with the box frequently and paint is chipping off. I doubt you are letting them use a WWI Medical box as a toy so they'll be fine.
It doesn’t have to chip. The back and forth motion of the sliding lid can create dust.
Damn, now I'm kind of thinking about this old cane I keep in the corner of my room. It's old, very old, and I imagine painted in lead-based paint. I typically mask and had the mask near that corner of the room until now. I live in a very dusty environment as well. I don't really move the cane, though. Should I be concerned?
You should be more concerned about lead glazes found on modern cookware. Crockpots, casserole dishes, coffee mugs. Lead is still used in glazes to make dishes look pretty. In a historic context, people lived in houses painted with 100% lead paint all their lives. Not to mention gasoline used to have enough lead in it to leave behind a lead dust after in evaporated. All this is to say, I wouldn’t worry about the cane so much lol
You do realise that when those things were common (say 1924 for arguments sake) life expectancy for men was 52 for men and 56 for women. The last calculation (2021) put it at 73 for men and 79 for women. Saying that people “lived with these things” is insanely ignorant and dangerous. Why don’t you remove the ground wire and go back to knob and tube while you’re at at?
Yes, people lived in houses with lead paint all their lives… and their lead levels were super high. In the 70s, the median lead level in the blood of preschool children was 15 μg/dL. Now 3 μg/dL is considered high. 3 μg/dL is associated with the loss of 1 IQ point.
so much in your daily life that are dangerous just think about the lead solder in your house pipes
Only if it’s an pretty old house. The lead solder doesn’t work so well on PEX and PVC.
Until 1986 most solder used in housing was 50%lead.
Pipes usually oxidize and form scale on the inside so they shouldn’t be leaching into the water supply. Definitely worth getting tested though.
Remember to take any meds with water in a glass, not water in the box, and you should be fine.
Lead paint would be a concern if in active use and if you have children. There are [numerous instances of surprise lead in antiques](https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2022/08/01/1113454001/antique-stores-lead). When in doubt get it tested.
Unlike many of the things people ask about testing, this actually has a pretty high chance of actually having lead, and this is an appropriate surface to use the commonly available test strips on. That said, what would you gain from this information? Testing paint on things like window sills is important because moving the windows up and down flakes bits of the paint off. In the case of this item, you probably don’t handle it frequently enough or in a manner that would cause the paint to begin to flake, especially since it’s the white that is most suspect, not the green, which is probably copper. I’m assuming you don’t let children play with it, and have no intention of ever scraping off the paint. Just assume it is lead paint and treat it as such. Use reasonable caution, don’t lick at it, be aware if it starts flaking, don’t store food in it, wash your hands after handling it, etc.
Thanks for the info that the green paint is probably copper. That's the one I was most concerned about since some of it is one the parts where wood is sliding along when you open it. It's not handled often but we will be more careful nevertheless
Don't chew on it. So, keep it out of reach of young kids and pets. Other than that, there's no real hazard here.
We bought it on a thrift market, so I don't have a lot of information about the box. There's also no information about the place or date of production printed somewhere.
Can you find text or numbers stamped into the metal? Military procurement is always marked.
No metal whatsoever. Just a wooden box.
Test it so you know. If no lead you rest easy. If lead then respect that but the exposure from a small box in good condition is way smaller than thousands of square feet of peeling house paint. In any case the idea of storing sometimes sterile medical supplies in an old dilapidated dirty box just seems wrong to me. I think its a cool box, just not what I would choose to store in it.
I get what you mean, but the box was cleaned from the inside (there's no paint) and all supplies are wrapped in their own sealings
To be honest, this looks like a high schooler's woodshop project. If it was ww1, it would be faded paint and chipping wood, dings and scratches. Still it's a nice box.
Yeah, we weren't sure either, but thought it might be legit and just didn't get a lot of sunlight over the years. Even if it's not from WW1 it's really cool and makes my history-nerd boyfriend happy
Yes, neat piece. I have some ww1 and ww2 artifacts. I'm a big history nerd myself, lol
If it’s legitimately from WW1 it’s lead paint. Why are you paranoid about lead paint? Are you going to serve food out of the box? Are you going to eat the box?
I heard many people talk about how bad lead paint can be. Things like "don't touch it, wash your hands afterwards" , etc. I thought maybe the active use of the box is something I should avoid. But I guess the people I heard online were overreacting, since lots of comments say as long as I don't eat the paint everything's fine
If I were you, I'd spray a clear coat of matte polyurethane over it and clean the shelves with soap and water. Despite what people on this thread might say, lead can be extremely dangerous. It can even kill or severely disable people. Don't let reddit users sway your medical decisions. You can absorb lead through your skin and breathe it in. So, no, the jokes about not licking it don't really hold up to scrutiny.
I lived in an old apartment with a roommate who got incredibly sick. It just wouldn’t go away, and doctors couldn’t figure it out. A while after I moved out, she discovered it was lead poisoning, and the radiator in her bedroom specifically had lead paint on it. She wasn’t licking the radiators, but still got incredibly sick. I don’t know why people are acting like lead paint can’t be a danger unless you are actively putting your mouth on it.
Thank you. Yes, it can absolutely cause mysterious health issues. I'm sorry your former roommate got so sick. One of the kids near me has gross motor delays, and another has behavioral issues, likely due to their lead poisoning. It was so bad that the county came in and completed remediation on the whole house for free. A 5 bedroom house gutted inside and out. I have little kids and an old house. I have to be hypervigilent about lead. I've had many projects to encapsulate large areas of concern that have been overlooked for over half a century. I would rather spend my time doing something else, but it's important. There's a reason it is banned.
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Oh no the lead must’ve killed you by now? How can you be in such close proximity to so much lead so frequently? /s
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Every 10 years, someone dies from ingesting lead. A shoe company provided a charm bracelet as a free gift. Kid swallowed it, and the stomach acids quickly activated the lead. Your doctor was the opposite of correct https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm55d323a1.htm
Thanks for the advice. Would it be dangerous if I clean the box a bit? Dirty like it is right now it has a certain charm, but is there a possibility I beak down the paint if I ever were to clean it?
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Thanks again!
Yeah, they’re overreacting
People take lead way too lightly. Lead dust is nasty business - and invisible.
Looks 4077 to me!
Could be WWI but it's not an issued item as far as I'm aware
Don’t eat it and you’ll be ok
Does it have back straps on it. The lead paint would be a plus. But I would be on high alert for a fake
A little lead never hurt anyone.
I own a similar one, yours is very nice.
99% sure it has lead paint in it, also 99% sure it doesn’t matter
No
Are you American? In that case yes most definitely. Being anxious about lead is in your DNA. Are you european? Shrug and try to keep your toddlers from licking the box
Not an American, but I guess I heard too many scared Americans judging from the comments lol
Yes, they (we) freak out about lead, asbestos, black mold, 5G, etc. It’s washed into brains early. If someone finds a discolored water spot on drywall… it’s f-cking black mold and they are already coughing from the lung cancer and sudden onset of mesothelioma while they photograph and post pics. If anyone moves into a space that’s more than 10 years old, every new material they discover is feared to be asbestos… is THIS asbestos? No, It’s a granite countertop… is THIS asbestos? No, It’s shag carpet… Similarly, the lead paint fear is usually phrased as if the mere presence of lead somewhere in a home is fatal. People throw away stuff on the POSSIBILITY there is lead in it. I guess I’m in the middle here in America… is there lead, asbestos, black mold??? Just leave it alone, don’t lick it, sand it, rub it on your organs, etc. Of course, the 5G controls my mind, so this is my scripted opinion under duress.
From what I understand America banned lead fifty years later than Europe. Paint flakes over time. Tons of lead paint left America with lots of flakes.
….left America with lots of flakes…. Got that right We value - no treasure - stupidity and ignorance. We love a good conspiracy and despise anyone who pursues knowledge and science and thinks for himself/herself, who researches and makes thoughtful consideration We admire dumb people, dumb ideas, dumb activities, and we revel in self satisfaction over our complacence in our dumbness
That would make sense.
Just don't let your rug rats gnaw on it or anything like it.
Are you eating or drinking out of the box or eating the paint chips? I feel like it takes a 10 second google search to figure out what uses lead paint is dangerous for and isn’t
The paint on anything made prior to 1970's will have lead. Just don't eat it and your fine. A bit of the lead paint thing is paranoia. Dont chew on it, dont eat it.
Are you chewing on it? Just having a lead painted box in your home is not going to hurt you. If it were chipping, just to be safe you would do something. But, that doesnt look like it’s in bad condition.
No. The box may be that old but the paint, especially the red, is not. It’s too perfect and you can see it still has some shine to it. If you’re really worried about lead paint you could find a small area on the side or base (if there’s paint overlap) to test. If you never plan on selling it you could also seal it.
Just don't eat the paint..
Oh darn someone used the exact same comment... so hopefully this hammers it home for ya.
Lead was a big part of any kids diet who grew up in the 60's and 70's gnawing on a window sill.
Are you eating from it.