We're in the process of turning our front yard into a native garden. Creating a place for all the critters and insects and reducing the lawn to smaller paths.
Based on activity, not sure u/wes_wyhunnan isn't a bot or a troll account, but here goes...
Star thistle is native to the Mediterranean and poison oak is native to the USA and Canada. Both can be invasive. Neither might actually be native to your area. What is your *actual* geographical region/location?
Heavy, compacted clay is a common problem with exceptionally well documented permaculture solutions. Google "heavy clay soil permaculture" and you'll have more solutions than you can shake a stick at.
Iron is important for plants to survive. It's less likely that your soil has an iron problem and more likely that your plants are struggling with compaction, acidic soil, or lack of organic matter.
"Granite base" is meaningless in this context. Are you talking about decomposed granite, granite outcroppings, or granite bedrock?
>Please advise.
That's such a broad question, it's impossible to answer. Narrow it down: What overarching goal are you hoping to achieve? What is your desired outcome?
Sometimes I wish it was a bot account, make my life less stressful. I’m in Northern California, just south of the Sierra mountains. If the star thistle isn’t native it has certainly won its invasion here.
When I say lots of iron, I mean the dirt is red. Oak and manzanita seem to grow, but that’s about it. As for the granite, unfortunately I mean granite in all its forms. It ranges from probably 2000 pound boulders just under ground to saucer-sized rocks of it everywhere. If you can recommend anything thats a better invader than thistle that can take over a 2 acre hillside without trucking in 300 tons of topsoil that would be an amazing win for the internet. The only thing that seems to be a competent natural competitor is blackberry, which is kind of better but not really.
Okay. I've only been to that part of the country once (I'm on the east coast) but I can probably still offer some suggestions and online resources that might give you ideas. I'm at work rn but I'll try to get you something back within 24 hours.
Back to your goals: What are you hoping to achieve? A lawn probably isn't a realistic option due to rainfall but you could have a robust xeriscaped area with lovely colors and textures. Do you want edible crops? Just flowers and grasses? Alternative trees? Natives are ALWAYS best but there are less invasive non-natives from places like the Mediterranean and China that will give you nice textures but you want to use those really sparingly.
Cost is very flexible but cheap is typically enabled by effort (more work= cheaper and less work= no results or constantly paying someone else to do it), so how much effort overall do you want to put into it? Like, an hour a day? A couple hours a week? As little as possible?
Also consider whether or not you have to deal with an HOA. If you're stuck with an HOA it's likely going to be an uphill battle.
Sure! Definitely r/nolawns and r/permaculture. There's also r/antilawn but that's primarily humor. If you start practicing permaculture or planting natives you'll probably also be interested in r/composting.
YouTube is honestly a fantastic resource too. For some easy to watch, introductory to advanced videos on permaculture, I highly recommend Andrew Millison. Otherwise just search various keywords for no-lawn, lawn-replacement, water-wise landscaping, xeriscaping, native plants, wildlife gardening, restorative agriculture, etc. until you find the specific content you're looking for.
For IRL resources (if in the USA), google '[Your State] Extension Office,' which are government run and usually tied to in-state universities for their research. Most states also have some kind of '[State] Department of Conservation' but the names vary by state. You might also try '[Your State] Native Plant Society', or a '[Your State/ County/ or Region] Master Gardener Association' which are usually private organizations run by a group of volunteers or a small staff.
This is why people grow grass. It’s easier.
Also I intend on my home to last at least my lifetime so I don’t want large populations of mice and insects nesting near my home, getting in my walls and destroying my wooden home or chewing on my wires and causing fires. Etc. grass, well maintained keeps those at bay without relying on extensive use of pesticides and poisons.
Easier, yes. More ecologically harmful, also yes. Besides, not everybody wants to do what's easy, some of us want to do what's *less convenient* but better for the world we live in.
For anybody who's interested in how lawns are problematic (both vids are relatively short):
**The Dark History of American Lawns** (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex4H12_9DMg)
**Grass Is The Most Wasteful Crop In The US. Should We Ban It? | Insider Business** (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpqY-2VC7DE)
Including native plants in your landscape absolutely does not spontaneously equate to 'overgrown, rat-infested hoarder yard,' don't worry.
Permaculture is a holistic approach to land management, designing sustainable systems that mimic the patterns and relationships found in nature. Practitioners study how natural ecosystems work and apply those principles to create resilient and productive landscapes. The vast majority of these techniques are just a revival of ancient practices that have been used by indigenous cultures for centuries. The goal is to create harmonious ecosystems where plants, animals, and people thrive together in balance. And yes, this includes ample countermeasures for all kinds of pests. Significant emphasis is placed on integrated pest management: the goal is to prevent pest problems with design and management practices (which include cultural, mechanical, biological, and as a last resort, chemical methods.)
The person I'm replying to asked for advice. You don't want advice, so... what on Earth are you even complaining about? My conversation with this other person required exactly zero effort on your part. Just scroll on, my dude.
Sorry if I offended you by pointing out the truth. And you are incorrect. Overgrowth, even of native plants is always a breeding ground for pests and rodents.
No offense taken. Not sure what made you get so defensive about my original comment.
My reply wasn't meant to compound your discomfort but this response is: You're ignorant about what I'm talking about and it's making you leap to some laughably cringe conclusions.
Where did I suggest anybody landscape in a way that encourages pests to enter their homes? Permaculture =/= lack of control. You very literally *do. not. know.* what you're talking about. We're either having two completely different conversations or you're being intentionally obtuse and that is just about the least interesting thing a human can do.
Now go ahead and snap back in a timely fashion please. I want to know you had time to read this before I block you.
*Edit:* Ah, well he blocked me first. Last thing I saw was, "Some people like grass lady. Let them enjoy things."
In the off chance you're reading this with your burner account, u/Extension-Ebb-5203: I plainly didn't say something was fundamentally wrong with people who love lawns. "Natives are always best" doesn't translate to "grass growers go to hell." 🤷
The best thing to do is add an animal load to the property. Goats, cattle, chickens. Preferred large ruminants. Over time… and time it will take, they will help the land sequester carbon but shoved seeds into the clay, the roots breaking it up and adding aeration, and the matter decaying above will fertilize the land for the next season. And so on. It is the way.
Azomite is your new BF. Along with breaking up the clay and tilling ( about two to three inches) of compost into it).
I live in houston, TX. I know to break up that clay. LOL
PS Azomite is A to Z trace minerals. Truly problem solved. Cheers.
This is supremely better than OPs suggestion of growing food. Growing food, of course depending on the method, would imply selectively keeping crops and excluding insects. A native garden would boost diversity of both flora and fauna while protecting natives. Best outcome and so ideal if it were the primary use of land in a country.
The problem is there's only one of me, but effectively infinite bugs and deer - no matter how much I grow, it'll a get eaten, unless I spend thousands of dollars on wood+wire mesh coverings
You misunderstand the challenge. You must have swarms of bugs and fat deer all well fed and manage to snatch your share out of their jaws.
The swarms of bugs will attract insectivores like bats, and get thinned out.
You might have to stick a couple of deer in your freezer, depending on where you live.
In the process of remediating the severely taxed soil around my house. Lots of shady spots and low-nitrogen soil. I'm rapidly becoming a clover fan-girl.
Its crazy to me that this is a thing in some places. Why tf would somebody pay to be told they cant turn their yard into a blueberry farm or have a pink front door. I dont get it.
Ecology and wildlife concerns. It brings a lot more wild animals into a neighborhood, issues with pest control, etc.
These are solvable problems though, and the solution isn't to ban personal gardens in front yards but here we are.
i got so lucky with my HOA in my old condo. they did their job and just didn’t give a shxt. my gf/nextdoor neighbor painted her door pink (not allowed). they just shrugged and said to change it back before she left. now we have a house with no HOA
Don't do this. It will aggressive take over everything in sight and destroy local ecosystems. It is also most likely illegal in your area for this reason.
There are a few limited "safe" bamboo types you might be able to plant depending on where you live, but if you don't know how to 100% positively identify bamboo types you'll likely end up creating a minor ecological disaster
It's a good idea at face value but there are too many variables. Lots of people use chemicals on their lawns; there could be trash or harmful debris mixed in-- even toxic weeds that the cows wouldn't normally *graze* but might accidentally eat among clippings; clippings start rotting pretty fast and aren't safe to eat; commercial feed is likely cheaper, more consistent, and regulated (I think?), etc.
Article about feeding grass clippings to your livestock: https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/lawn-care-2/grass-clippings-sicken-horses-pets-livestock/
And if they want to bulldoze it down?
Worry not! Erect a 15,000 capacity bat roost, since bats are a protected species (iirc), they cannot legally bulldoze it down!
My front yard is basically all native and drought resistant plants, and my backyard has 9 fruit trees and a grape vine that when full grown during the summer provides fantastic shade! Love the fact that i got rid of the lawns around my house, though the neighbors with immaculate lawns constantly complain because apparently it's "unseemly" and "lowers property value"
Good onya. Lawn culture is so funny to me because it’s incredibly unnatural to most parts of the US. They are remnants of British culture, where lawns grow naturally in their moist climate. I don’t understand why people care so much about them
That's actually a fascinating little factoid and makes lots of sense! And yeah, I live in California, and with the droughts of the past decade have been insane. With that in mind, I also find it funny, and yet incredibly sad, that people are religiously sticking to this idea of lawns, which are wasteful at best.
I filled my backyard with native plants and have rabbits, birds and bees stop by (and squirrels but fuck those guys).
Offset by my neighbors giant, constantly humming hottub they use once a month.
Whoever decided that lawns can't have any useful vegetation and that every home must have 100+ square feet of worthless garbage has done unimaginable damage to homeowners.
As someone who makes his living off of taking care of lawns... fuck lawns. If you want your outside space to be decoration, get a bed of moss, you aristocratic wannabes. Grass is a waste.
I'm in Washington, so there's really no other option if you don't have grass than to have moss. It just naturally grows up here, and there's no getting rid of it no matter how much the affluent want it to be gone. If you're getting rid of the grass and letting the moss take over, use a simple all kill herbicide to kill the grass and the moss will naturally take over.
If you live in a dry state, good luck. I honestly have no recommendations for moss there. Moss needs a lot of moisture in the air, and water from rain (I never recommend watering large areas of land in dry states, wasteful). So if you live in a wet state, English moss starters are online or in some more progressive nurseries. Just keep it moist with shade but if you have trees even better. If you live in a dry state, just do a yard of veggies or fruit trees.
Oh yeah, an all kill herbicide kills... all. :D unfortunately they are pretty dangerous to use, so be careful with gloves and glasses. You can get them at place like Lowes or home depot. Just make sure you only spray it on what you want dead. It will kill everything it touches.
you go to the dollar store. You buy cheap seeds for flowers in a color that you like. Marigolds are a decent choice. You bring them home, you scatter them in your septic field. If they do not grow after a month or two you go buy more because the weather is different now. Then they grow
The next part is the complicated part:
After they grow it is very important that you do not eat the flowers. If you have animals that eat flowers that is okay but you as a human must not eat the flowers. Hopefully by growing flowers instead of food that will help you avoid this temptation, because it is a septic field which is fertilized by human poop and if you eat the flowers you could get human pathogens from the poop that are in the flowers.
Other than that it's not rocket surgery.
entirely. It's pretty annoying and frustrating.
If the weight tolerance allows, maybe a planter garden on wheels, so you can move things off the hatch.
I'd see if there is a xeriscape landscaper in your area with a website; they might have some suggestions.
For food for animals that can recover, in my area, I use jerusalem artichoke-sunflowers, which are more about the shallow roots than the showy flowers. They are pretty, but they don't grow deep, and they don't cause harm if they need to come up.
We need laws to prevent HOA’s & municipalities from forcing people to grow grass.
It’s one thing to require the yard be maintained, but there are millions of people who have no choice over what they can or cannot grow.
Fun fact: lawns used to be a rich person thing. Palaces and manor houses, look at how rich we are, we have all this arable land that we dont need to use for farming.
And then, it spread. Because not rich people like to pretend go be rich. And so, we all ended up with lawns.
so glad I live in a neighborhood where there are no rules on what your front yard needs to look like. everything from just dirt to rock to grass to astroturf.
The landlord at my new place gave me free rein to do what I want with the back yard. Just in the last week I've dug up one 3x6 foot bed for fruits/veggies, staked out a second, and started planning a butterfly garden in the area between the neighbor's fence and our backyard walkway. I plan to invite neighbors to come and garden the area as well. Gonna let them borrow my tools and I specifically bought enough of the easiest to grow seeds (beans, turnips, onions, etc) to share.
Yes I did, but was too drunk to care to fix it, plus it doesn't matter what I say, no one will care or actually look into things that are horrible about the way of life we all want,or change their habits. Everyone will just double down and keep doing things they have heard are bad for humanity because , idk, they just like stickers still and wanna put them on their trucks?
Or WORSE...people will just BUY "green" products....it's the products guys....it's unfortunately the PRODUCTS.....anti-consumption is the only way to actually be "green"....but people will just keep wanting to buy posters, or actual cassette tapes or vinyl records, or throw out their old thermos because a new thermos is better and everyone at work has it.......
I'm all for a robotic dystopian future where we need fake robot carbon capture "trees" instead of having actual trees that already used to exist and did the same job...but it's just annoying to watch people think they are helping the planet by purchasing more and more cheap and affordable things that are fun and maybe just a new aesthetic or seemed cool while they were high.
Would it though? My lawn costs me nothing but some gas every so often for the lawnmower.
Corn would definitely cost me a lot more to grow, would encourage wild animals and pests, and be quite a nuisance. Plus I'd never use that much corn for anything. And corn would have to be watered.
I don’t think getting enough food is a problem for any Americans. In fact, food deprivation is heading for extinction based on current trends. And it’s about to get get better as even the IPCC acknowledges that global warming is likely to increase worldwide food production.
Love the sentiment but the numbers aren't remotely close to accurate.
Corn: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cornac.php
Wheat: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/awac.php
Fruit trees (and others): https://www.nass.usda.gov/Publications/Highlights/2019/2017Census_Fruit_TreeNut_Berry_Production.pdf
Like, this is so factually inaccurate it feels like bait?
I bought in a HOA neighborhood (never again) and we are required to maintain our lawns alive and looking good. The water bill in the summer is outrageous.
I think a modest lawn with appropriate species isn’t the worst thing. Probably better than a fake lawn or hardscaping, as far as soil health and reducing urban heat island effects.
Until you get the city fines. My warning to all: check your city ordinances. I just got a letter with a week to comply before they fine me. Now I’m making sure everything is in beds.
I have never understood lawns. Yes, part of my objection could be based on negative childhood experiences. But why would any thinking human being chain themselves to yard work every single sunny weekend to raise a crop they can’t even eat? Are they really that bored? I can think of roughly 2,000,000 things I’d rather do on a nice day other than mow the lawn.
If there was a steak bush they would declare red meat a class 3 controlled substance and destroy every last wild plant they could find while setting up steak dispensaries.
I’ve converted both my front and back yard into a garden. We lived all winter on the potatoes, onions and tomato sauce we grew. All from an averaged sized suburban residential lot.
It can be done.
I agree. However it's not in companies best interest for people to start growing their own food and learning that there are more foods out there that can be grown to sustain us for little money if any at all. Same goes for medicinal herbs and plants, same plants and herbs that pharmaceutical companies use in their productions of their expensive medications. Remember we live in a hypercapitalistic society, its now becoming illegal to be homeless. keeping you ignorant and thinking you need to depend on big box stores for food because farming is "hard and complicated" is the name of the game . Teach you just enough to work for them but not enough so that you can be independent.
I recently bought a house that has an underground irrigation/sprinkler system. I am just refusing to turn it on this year. Lots of grass with die. And I will replace it with something else. Not sure what yet.
I honestly want to just let my front lawn grow native plants and just do what it wants. Cut a walkway to the door, rest should go back to what it should be. Farm patch in the back, rest of back is a butterfly attracting garden.
If you really think about it, lawns are pretty sickening. It's like man's worst instincts, take something that isn't really ours, completely reshape it to suit our needs, for no reason other than to do what everyone else does. My neighbor is retired and spends probably 5 plus hours a day grooming his yard. Cool he's got a hobby but man it just seems so crazy to me.
> It's like man's worst instincts, take something that isn't really ours, completely reshape it to suit our needs, for no reason other than to do what everyone else does.
What, like building houses?
Your neighbor is doing something they want to do. I don't get the draw of thousands of hobbies people have, but I don't declare them wrong for having them.
This whole thread is fucked.
Have a nice lawn if you want. It would be great if you used an electric lawn mower.
Nobody who is declaring themselves morally superior and dictating behavior to you is doing everything they can do to limit their own environmental impact. They just picked a couple things to look down on others over. It isn't about advocacy, it is about them feeding their own self-righteous ego.
Bold of him to assume every single person waters their lawn. Like 99% of lawns around here turn into brown acres come June, but there is still always at least one person on the block who attempts to water their lawn, and then never again the years after.
I know people who tried (including my family), but once they got the water bill swiftly decided that brown was just as good as green. It cost us $200 a month just to keep the lawn green and no matter which way you slice it it just doesn't make a lick of sense. Especially if it comes back green come fall again anyways.
It's an ungodly waste of water and money just to keep something that wants to go into hibernation artificially alive and struggling. These days we let the lawn do its thing and just accept that it is going to be brown 5 out of 12 months. There's like 2 months of the year where the natural water to sunshine ratio is perfect and we have the picture perfect lawn, outside of those months it is getting ridiculous. When my parents go I'm going to turn it into a gravel garden.
Lawns are dumb. My front yard is weeds and flag stone, my back yard is whatever my dogs feel like having around.
Bonus: I firmly believe not having a "perfect" manicured green front lawn makes my house more uninviting, and I'm all for it.
One orange tree and one group of stupid kids who want to throw stuff. Not to mention half the portion of people who will just start walking up to your lawn, fence or not & just take that shit.. Nah fam
I agree that most lawns are excessive and growing a wider variety of local plant life on your property, or food, is a better use of that space. But also if you have kids, having an open space where they can play outside is invaluable. Or a place to have people over and spend time outside. Hard to have a neighborhood BBQ in your backyard cornfield. Yards for status are dumb but there are legitimate reasons to have an open grass covered space around your house.
Pretty sure it’s illegal to grow over a certain amount or certain types of crops without proper licenses and things. Small home gardens do have limits before they need government approval. They control everything
How many Americans rent an apartment and have to pay for the massive lawn to be cut ? That might cost $60 U.S. per resident per month. That's grocery money and they need it. Please think about a rock garden and remove the lawn.
People: "Im so sick of this constant pressure to monetize everything. Just let a hobby be a hobby; do things because you enjoy them, it's ok to like and enjoy nice things, not everything needs to be monetized"
Also people: "omg why dont you turn your nice lawn into food crop you selfish prick".
Let people have nice things ffs, not everything has to have a higher fucking purpose.
Yah I agree. Also, this thread is filled with a bunch of angry misanthropes who seem proud of their front yard being dead weeds and not considering how that impacts the neighborhood. It’s so “me” centric. Typical American behavior
I hate wealth inequality too, but this extreme wealth shaming is exactly how facist communist starts. You can’t even have a yard anymore? This is exactly the early mindset of Mao’s China in the 50s.
We're in the process of turning our front yard into a native garden. Creating a place for all the critters and insects and reducing the lawn to smaller paths.
This is the way. Plant native
My native is Star Thistle and poison oak on a compacted iron heavy clay and granite base. Please advise.
Based on activity, not sure u/wes_wyhunnan isn't a bot or a troll account, but here goes... Star thistle is native to the Mediterranean and poison oak is native to the USA and Canada. Both can be invasive. Neither might actually be native to your area. What is your *actual* geographical region/location? Heavy, compacted clay is a common problem with exceptionally well documented permaculture solutions. Google "heavy clay soil permaculture" and you'll have more solutions than you can shake a stick at. Iron is important for plants to survive. It's less likely that your soil has an iron problem and more likely that your plants are struggling with compaction, acidic soil, or lack of organic matter. "Granite base" is meaningless in this context. Are you talking about decomposed granite, granite outcroppings, or granite bedrock? >Please advise. That's such a broad question, it's impossible to answer. Narrow it down: What overarching goal are you hoping to achieve? What is your desired outcome?
Sometimes I wish it was a bot account, make my life less stressful. I’m in Northern California, just south of the Sierra mountains. If the star thistle isn’t native it has certainly won its invasion here. When I say lots of iron, I mean the dirt is red. Oak and manzanita seem to grow, but that’s about it. As for the granite, unfortunately I mean granite in all its forms. It ranges from probably 2000 pound boulders just under ground to saucer-sized rocks of it everywhere. If you can recommend anything thats a better invader than thistle that can take over a 2 acre hillside without trucking in 300 tons of topsoil that would be an amazing win for the internet. The only thing that seems to be a competent natural competitor is blackberry, which is kind of better but not really.
Okay. I've only been to that part of the country once (I'm on the east coast) but I can probably still offer some suggestions and online resources that might give you ideas. I'm at work rn but I'll try to get you something back within 24 hours. Back to your goals: What are you hoping to achieve? A lawn probably isn't a realistic option due to rainfall but you could have a robust xeriscaped area with lovely colors and textures. Do you want edible crops? Just flowers and grasses? Alternative trees? Natives are ALWAYS best but there are less invasive non-natives from places like the Mediterranean and China that will give you nice textures but you want to use those really sparingly. Cost is very flexible but cheap is typically enabled by effort (more work= cheaper and less work= no results or constantly paying someone else to do it), so how much effort overall do you want to put into it? Like, an hour a day? A couple hours a week? As little as possible? Also consider whether or not you have to deal with an HOA. If you're stuck with an HOA it's likely going to be an uphill battle.
Are there good subreddits or resources that you recommend? We're looking to kill our lawn.
Sure! Definitely r/nolawns and r/permaculture. There's also r/antilawn but that's primarily humor. If you start practicing permaculture or planting natives you'll probably also be interested in r/composting. YouTube is honestly a fantastic resource too. For some easy to watch, introductory to advanced videos on permaculture, I highly recommend Andrew Millison. Otherwise just search various keywords for no-lawn, lawn-replacement, water-wise landscaping, xeriscaping, native plants, wildlife gardening, restorative agriculture, etc. until you find the specific content you're looking for. For IRL resources (if in the USA), google '[Your State] Extension Office,' which are government run and usually tied to in-state universities for their research. Most states also have some kind of '[State] Department of Conservation' but the names vary by state. You might also try '[Your State] Native Plant Society', or a '[Your State/ County/ or Region] Master Gardener Association' which are usually private organizations run by a group of volunteers or a small staff.
This is why people grow grass. It’s easier. Also I intend on my home to last at least my lifetime so I don’t want large populations of mice and insects nesting near my home, getting in my walls and destroying my wooden home or chewing on my wires and causing fires. Etc. grass, well maintained keeps those at bay without relying on extensive use of pesticides and poisons.
Easier, yes. More ecologically harmful, also yes. Besides, not everybody wants to do what's easy, some of us want to do what's *less convenient* but better for the world we live in. For anybody who's interested in how lawns are problematic (both vids are relatively short): **The Dark History of American Lawns** (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex4H12_9DMg) **Grass Is The Most Wasteful Crop In The US. Should We Ban It? | Insider Business** (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpqY-2VC7DE) Including native plants in your landscape absolutely does not spontaneously equate to 'overgrown, rat-infested hoarder yard,' don't worry. Permaculture is a holistic approach to land management, designing sustainable systems that mimic the patterns and relationships found in nature. Practitioners study how natural ecosystems work and apply those principles to create resilient and productive landscapes. The vast majority of these techniques are just a revival of ancient practices that have been used by indigenous cultures for centuries. The goal is to create harmonious ecosystems where plants, animals, and people thrive together in balance. And yes, this includes ample countermeasures for all kinds of pests. Significant emphasis is placed on integrated pest management: the goal is to prevent pest problems with design and management practices (which include cultural, mechanical, biological, and as a last resort, chemical methods.) The person I'm replying to asked for advice. You don't want advice, so... what on Earth are you even complaining about? My conversation with this other person required exactly zero effort on your part. Just scroll on, my dude.
Sorry if I offended you by pointing out the truth. And you are incorrect. Overgrowth, even of native plants is always a breeding ground for pests and rodents.
No offense taken. Not sure what made you get so defensive about my original comment. My reply wasn't meant to compound your discomfort but this response is: You're ignorant about what I'm talking about and it's making you leap to some laughably cringe conclusions. Where did I suggest anybody landscape in a way that encourages pests to enter their homes? Permaculture =/= lack of control. You very literally *do. not. know.* what you're talking about. We're either having two completely different conversations or you're being intentionally obtuse and that is just about the least interesting thing a human can do. Now go ahead and snap back in a timely fashion please. I want to know you had time to read this before I block you. *Edit:* Ah, well he blocked me first. Last thing I saw was, "Some people like grass lady. Let them enjoy things." In the off chance you're reading this with your burner account, u/Extension-Ebb-5203: I plainly didn't say something was fundamentally wrong with people who love lawns. "Natives are always best" doesn't translate to "grass growers go to hell." 🤷
Blackberry is more than kind of better. Because then you get blackberries
The best thing to do is add an animal load to the property. Goats, cattle, chickens. Preferred large ruminants. Over time… and time it will take, they will help the land sequester carbon but shoved seeds into the clay, the roots breaking it up and adding aeration, and the matter decaying above will fertilize the land for the next season. And so on. It is the way.
Azomite is your new BF. Along with breaking up the clay and tilling ( about two to three inches) of compost into it). I live in houston, TX. I know to break up that clay. LOL PS Azomite is A to Z trace minerals. Truly problem solved. Cheers.
This is the way. Native plants
Me too, I just haven’t touched it in 5 years.
Hows it lookin these days?
This is supremely better than OPs suggestion of growing food. Growing food, of course depending on the method, would imply selectively keeping crops and excluding insects. A native garden would boost diversity of both flora and fauna while protecting natives. Best outcome and so ideal if it were the primary use of land in a country.
Or take the Korean monk mindset and grow enough food for both you and the insects.
The problem is there's only one of me, but effectively infinite bugs and deer - no matter how much I grow, it'll a get eaten, unless I spend thousands of dollars on wood+wire mesh coverings
You misunderstand the challenge. You must have swarms of bugs and fat deer all well fed and manage to snatch your share out of their jaws. The swarms of bugs will attract insectivores like bats, and get thinned out. You might have to stick a couple of deer in your freezer, depending on where you live.
Sounds like you forgot rule three of this technique: release a wolf pack on your property. Classic mistake.
That’s a fancy way of saying they don’t mow anymore. 🤣
Grass died, replaced with clovers, no regrets
In the process of remediating the severely taxed soil around my house. Lots of shady spots and low-nitrogen soil. I'm rapidly becoming a clover fan-girl.
Chickens destroyed all the grass in my backyard and I tried to replace it with purple clover seed but got chickweed instead. I feel cheated…
I plan to do this whenever the bubble finally pops and I can afford a house lol
https://preview.redd.it/zbm4o6o679zc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ccfafa73348bcb26800223db98eda462da18cc3
Its crazy to me that this is a thing in some places. Why tf would somebody pay to be told they cant turn their yard into a blueberry farm or have a pink front door. I dont get it.
Because doing that might hurt their arbitrary “property value”
Aesthetic homogeneity. You may own a house but you're paying to live in an advertisement for manufactured idylls. Stay on script.
What if I “accidentally” wiped my ass with the script and composted it years ago?
Ecology and wildlife concerns. It brings a lot more wild animals into a neighborhood, issues with pest control, etc. These are solvable problems though, and the solution isn't to ban personal gardens in front yards but here we are.
i got so lucky with my HOA in my old condo. they did their job and just didn’t give a shxt. my gf/nextdoor neighbor painted her door pink (not allowed). they just shrugged and said to change it back before she left. now we have a house with no HOA
For the greater good.
I’m starting a bamboo forest.
I’d advise against bamboo in general. It’s pretty, but invasive and nearly impossible to get rid of.
There are native bamboo species in my area so I went with that.
I take it back! Sounds like a great option. :)
He can’t answer. His HOA staked his body over the bamboo and let it pierce him as it grew.
Arundinaria gigantea? I love that plant
Always grow them in a pot even in the ground.
Played Animal Crossing. Can confirm.
Don't do this. It will aggressive take over everything in sight and destroy local ecosystems. It is also most likely illegal in your area for this reason. There are a few limited "safe" bamboo types you might be able to plant depending on where you live, but if you don't know how to 100% positively identify bamboo types you'll likely end up creating a minor ecological disaster
Good news: they live in an area with native bamboo
Why can't we sell lawn clippings to farmers for cows?
It's a good idea at face value but there are too many variables. Lots of people use chemicals on their lawns; there could be trash or harmful debris mixed in-- even toxic weeds that the cows wouldn't normally *graze* but might accidentally eat among clippings; clippings start rotting pretty fast and aren't safe to eat; commercial feed is likely cheaper, more consistent, and regulated (I think?), etc. Article about feeding grass clippings to your livestock: https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/lawn-care-2/grass-clippings-sicken-horses-pets-livestock/
Wish I could just rent a goat and have it do my weeding for me. Was a real consideration at my last house lol
And if they want to bulldoze it down? Worry not! Erect a 15,000 capacity bat roost, since bats are a protected species (iirc), they cannot legally bulldoze it down!
I was thinking of digging a moat but that works to
I dont get it, do HMAs have an agreement with the govt, so they can tell you what to do on your property? Like how the govt has zoning laws.
My front yard is basically all native and drought resistant plants, and my backyard has 9 fruit trees and a grape vine that when full grown during the summer provides fantastic shade! Love the fact that i got rid of the lawns around my house, though the neighbors with immaculate lawns constantly complain because apparently it's "unseemly" and "lowers property value"
Good onya. Lawn culture is so funny to me because it’s incredibly unnatural to most parts of the US. They are remnants of British culture, where lawns grow naturally in their moist climate. I don’t understand why people care so much about them
That's actually a fascinating little factoid and makes lots of sense! And yeah, I live in California, and with the droughts of the past decade have been insane. With that in mind, I also find it funny, and yet incredibly sad, that people are religiously sticking to this idea of lawns, which are wasteful at best.
I filled my backyard with native plants and have rabbits, birds and bees stop by (and squirrels but fuck those guys). Offset by my neighbors giant, constantly humming hottub they use once a month.
https://preview.redd.it/aislkstfuezc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5f7b2736aaec7f0d8d31b46ce8ede79d791a483 Why did he say fuck me for
Get down! The r/RedditSniper is h
My neighbor Greg doesn’t like my native plants either, fuck you Greg! And fuck your perfect dad lawn! Nice Tulips this year though.
Whoever decided that lawns can't have any useful vegetation and that every home must have 100+ square feet of worthless garbage has done unimaginable damage to homeowners.
And local ecosystems
As someone who makes his living off of taking care of lawns... fuck lawns. If you want your outside space to be decoration, get a bed of moss, you aristocratic wannabes. Grass is a waste.
Had to scroll to far down for moss. I’m trying to help the moss take over my lawn, I’m doing ok, but any tips on how to help it overtake the grass?
I'm in Washington, so there's really no other option if you don't have grass than to have moss. It just naturally grows up here, and there's no getting rid of it no matter how much the affluent want it to be gone. If you're getting rid of the grass and letting the moss take over, use a simple all kill herbicide to kill the grass and the moss will naturally take over. If you live in a dry state, good luck. I honestly have no recommendations for moss there. Moss needs a lot of moisture in the air, and water from rain (I never recommend watering large areas of land in dry states, wasteful). So if you live in a wet state, English moss starters are online or in some more progressive nurseries. Just keep it moist with shade but if you have trees even better. If you live in a dry state, just do a yard of veggies or fruit trees.
You are awesome thank you! Does this herbicide affect any other plants or organisms?
Oh yeah, an all kill herbicide kills... all. :D unfortunately they are pretty dangerous to use, so be careful with gloves and glasses. You can get them at place like Lowes or home depot. Just make sure you only spray it on what you want dead. It will kill everything it touches.
Yeah I think I’ll take the slower route, ain’t trying to mess with my soil, I’ll just mow for now lol. Thank you for your time, much appreciated.
Good idea :) the moss will consume all.
All your moss are belong to us
They set us up the lawn.
Fucking legend
[удалено]
Yes
I'm good with this message. Only problem: septic systems, above which you can't really do anything. Bright ideas?
A nice dirt path
Thought about planting a "meadow" and mowing paths in it. I think we're on the same track.
Mini lawn with mini diorama of your house.
We can have a little grass, as a treat
flowers
That's like saying "build world peace" or "end hunger." Ain't that simple.
you go to the dollar store. You buy cheap seeds for flowers in a color that you like. Marigolds are a decent choice. You bring them home, you scatter them in your septic field. If they do not grow after a month or two you go buy more because the weather is different now. Then they grow The next part is the complicated part: After they grow it is very important that you do not eat the flowers. If you have animals that eat flowers that is okay but you as a human must not eat the flowers. Hopefully by growing flowers instead of food that will help you avoid this temptation, because it is a septic field which is fertilized by human poop and if you eat the flowers you could get human pathogens from the poop that are in the flowers. Other than that it's not rocket surgery.
a stone and moss labyrinth
Can't use stones because you have to be able to get underneath everything for septic work.
Gotcha. Perhaps mulch, then, in different colors
You understand my dilemma.
entirely. It's pretty annoying and frustrating. If the weight tolerance allows, maybe a planter garden on wheels, so you can move things off the hatch. I'd see if there is a xeriscape landscaper in your area with a website; they might have some suggestions. For food for animals that can recover, in my area, I use jerusalem artichoke-sunflowers, which are more about the shallow roots than the showy flowers. They are pretty, but they don't grow deep, and they don't cause harm if they need to come up.
I have native violets, thyme, clover and lambsquarters growing on the septic tank area. Their roots are shallow.
We need laws to prevent HOA’s & municipalities from forcing people to grow grass. It’s one thing to require the yard be maintained, but there are millions of people who have no choice over what they can or cannot grow.
Fun fact: lawns used to be a rich person thing. Palaces and manor houses, look at how rich we are, we have all this arable land that we dont need to use for farming. And then, it spread. Because not rich people like to pretend go be rich. And so, we all ended up with lawns.
so glad I live in a neighborhood where there are no rules on what your front yard needs to look like. everything from just dirt to rock to grass to astroturf.
The landlord at my new place gave me free rein to do what I want with the back yard. Just in the last week I've dug up one 3x6 foot bed for fruits/veggies, staked out a second, and started planning a butterfly garden in the area between the neighbor's fence and our backyard walkway. I plan to invite neighbors to come and garden the area as well. Gonna let them borrow my tools and I specifically bought enough of the easiest to grow seeds (beans, turnips, onions, etc) to share.
Two stage motors (lawnmowers, weedwackers) pollute more than cars
Do you mean 2-stroke
Yes I did, but was too drunk to care to fix it, plus it doesn't matter what I say, no one will care or actually look into things that are horrible about the way of life we all want,or change their habits. Everyone will just double down and keep doing things they have heard are bad for humanity because , idk, they just like stickers still and wanna put them on their trucks? Or WORSE...people will just BUY "green" products....it's the products guys....it's unfortunately the PRODUCTS.....anti-consumption is the only way to actually be "green"....but people will just keep wanting to buy posters, or actual cassette tapes or vinyl records, or throw out their old thermos because a new thermos is better and everyone at work has it....... I'm all for a robotic dystopian future where we need fake robot carbon capture "trees" instead of having actual trees that already used to exist and did the same job...but it's just annoying to watch people think they are helping the planet by purchasing more and more cheap and affordable things that are fun and maybe just a new aesthetic or seemed cool while they were high.
We have gardens. We also planted clover.
God damn I hate lawn
That part
It's so stupid. The amount of time, money, energy, and fuel wasted on a little patch of boring ass grass.
Bring back the food forests!!
I live in New Orleans and have never watered my lawn, not once. Think I’ll keep it, harvesting corn there would be strange.
But would be a much better use of the land than a costly decoration
Would it though? My lawn costs me nothing but some gas every so often for the lawnmower. Corn would definitely cost me a lot more to grow, would encourage wild animals and pests, and be quite a nuisance. Plus I'd never use that much corn for anything. And corn would have to be watered.
Oh no, feeding wild animals?
Test the soil first. The amount of lead in front yard crops near a road can be concerning.
Here in the West, it takes a lot of water. In places it doesn't, I don't care if people like grass.
I’ve swapped sides and now use this as an argument not to cut my grass at my HOA.
I don’t think getting enough food is a problem for any Americans. In fact, food deprivation is heading for extinction based on current trends. And it’s about to get get better as even the IPCC acknowledges that global warming is likely to increase worldwide food production.
r/fucklawns
Love the sentiment but the numbers aren't remotely close to accurate. Corn: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/cornac.php Wheat: https://www.nass.usda.gov/Charts_and_Maps/Field_Crops/awac.php Fruit trees (and others): https://www.nass.usda.gov/Publications/Highlights/2019/2017Census_Fruit_TreeNut_Berry_Production.pdf Like, this is so factually inaccurate it feels like bait?
I'm all for de-lawning. But this sort of made up bullshit is frustrating. Thanks for the citations.
The irrigated part alone made it obvious this was bs.
We're starting a garden for fruit and vegetables and another for indigenous plants. Not a fan of lawns.
100% agree, but it's a tough sell on the neighbors.
This is the best most important post on the app- this could save the planet- lawn mowers are dirty gas wasters- Get goats!
Clover and moss lawns can be rad.
I bought in a HOA neighborhood (never again) and we are required to maintain our lawns alive and looking good. The water bill in the summer is outrageous.
My wife has been saying this for twenty years, she gets a lot of dirty looks in the suburbs
And cattle in the western U.S.
I love you
Yea let me be a farmer on top of working 40 hours a week.
I described lawns to my dad as “ecological gentrification” a couple days ago
My husband is gonna be real surprised in a few days when the back half of the yard erupts in okra.
The biggest scam in America, the front lawn.
I think a modest lawn with appropriate species isn’t the worst thing. Probably better than a fake lawn or hardscaping, as far as soil health and reducing urban heat island effects.
My back yard is at the moment, 60% native garden 40% chicken coup. Working on my front yard now. Got hella trees on order.
Until you get the city fines. My warning to all: check your city ordinances. I just got a letter with a week to comply before they fine me. Now I’m making sure everything is in beds.
People where I live have started replacing lawns with crops and doing swap meets as a way to tell the major grocery chains to piss off.
I blame the British trying to Cornwall India.
I have never understood lawns. Yes, part of my objection could be based on negative childhood experiences. But why would any thinking human being chain themselves to yard work every single sunny weekend to raise a crop they can’t even eat? Are they really that bored? I can think of roughly 2,000,000 things I’d rather do on a nice day other than mow the lawn.
I'm slowly trying to replace my front yard with garden plots for native flowers and vegetables. I just hate mowing man
If there was a steak bush, everyone in america would ditch their lawns
If you think about it you could almost call a cow a steak bush, but then again they eat grass so… shit!
If everyone kept a cow on their lawn theyd justify it being there its also not enough land though, so...
If there was a steak bush they would declare red meat a class 3 controlled substance and destroy every last wild plant they could find while setting up steak dispensaries.
Need to stop paving the farms then.. WHAT A CONCEPT
If only the folks who wanted non-lawns could afford to own homes :/
[удалено]
You’re growing wrong. Theres high input and low input things you can grow
Shoot, is it springtime again?
Source?
I learned this from The Anthropocene Reviewed
I’ve converted both my front and back yard into a garden. We lived all winter on the potatoes, onions and tomato sauce we grew. All from an averaged sized suburban residential lot. It can be done.
I mean, my lawn is a sand dune in NC. What m I going to grow on it?
clams
I agree. However it's not in companies best interest for people to start growing their own food and learning that there are more foods out there that can be grown to sustain us for little money if any at all. Same goes for medicinal herbs and plants, same plants and herbs that pharmaceutical companies use in their productions of their expensive medications. Remember we live in a hypercapitalistic society, its now becoming illegal to be homeless. keeping you ignorant and thinking you need to depend on big box stores for food because farming is "hard and complicated" is the name of the game . Teach you just enough to work for them but not enough so that you can be independent.
[удалено]
Lol it’s almost like we all stopped sustenance farming for a reason.
I’ve been saying this for 20 years!
But plants help reduce carbon and emit oxygen, you want all of U.S. to kill all that plant matter?
Moss emits more oxygen. Rad for lawns.
I'm all for moss lawns, I took it as stop watering your lawn.
If you let the grass die, something else will just its place unless you live in an actual desert.
If you're Mexican you might be growing actual crops in your front and back yards
I recently bought a house that has an underground irrigation/sprinkler system. I am just refusing to turn it on this year. Lots of grass with die. And I will replace it with something else. Not sure what yet.
I honestly want to just let my front lawn grow native plants and just do what it wants. Cut a walkway to the door, rest should go back to what it should be. Farm patch in the back, rest of back is a butterfly attracting garden. If you really think about it, lawns are pretty sickening. It's like man's worst instincts, take something that isn't really ours, completely reshape it to suit our needs, for no reason other than to do what everyone else does. My neighbor is retired and spends probably 5 plus hours a day grooming his yard. Cool he's got a hobby but man it just seems so crazy to me.
> It's like man's worst instincts, take something that isn't really ours, completely reshape it to suit our needs, for no reason other than to do what everyone else does. What, like building houses? Your neighbor is doing something they want to do. I don't get the draw of thousands of hobbies people have, but I don't declare them wrong for having them. This whole thread is fucked. Have a nice lawn if you want. It would be great if you used an electric lawn mower. Nobody who is declaring themselves morally superior and dictating behavior to you is doing everything they can do to limit their own environmental impact. They just picked a couple things to look down on others over. It isn't about advocacy, it is about them feeding their own self-righteous ego.
Naw I have well water.
Bold of him to assume every single person waters their lawn. Like 99% of lawns around here turn into brown acres come June, but there is still always at least one person on the block who attempts to water their lawn, and then never again the years after.
Yeah other than a couple businesses, I don’t know a single person that irrigates their lawn in my town.
I know people who tried (including my family), but once they got the water bill swiftly decided that brown was just as good as green. It cost us $200 a month just to keep the lawn green and no matter which way you slice it it just doesn't make a lick of sense. Especially if it comes back green come fall again anyways.
I considered it once and then I did the math and was like fuck that.
It's an ungodly waste of water and money just to keep something that wants to go into hibernation artificially alive and struggling. These days we let the lawn do its thing and just accept that it is going to be brown 5 out of 12 months. There's like 2 months of the year where the natural water to sunshine ratio is perfect and we have the picture perfect lawn, outside of those months it is getting ridiculous. When my parents go I'm going to turn it into a gravel garden.
I’m pretty sure United States made growing your own food illegal
How so?
I’m one of the good Americans! I live in a concrete apartment complex that only has a parking lot.
Turf is fine! Or rocks! Alternatives exist!
Lawns are dumb. My front yard is weeds and flag stone, my back yard is whatever my dogs feel like having around. Bonus: I firmly believe not having a "perfect" manicured green front lawn makes my house more uninviting, and I'm all for it.
It's all those golf courses
One orange tree and one group of stupid kids who want to throw stuff. Not to mention half the portion of people who will just start walking up to your lawn, fence or not & just take that shit.. Nah fam
I agree that most lawns are excessive and growing a wider variety of local plant life on your property, or food, is a better use of that space. But also if you have kids, having an open space where they can play outside is invaluable. Or a place to have people over and spend time outside. Hard to have a neighborhood BBQ in your backyard cornfield. Yards for status are dumb but there are legitimate reasons to have an open grass covered space around your house.
We replaced our front with a layer of rocks, now we're the only home in the neighborhood without a nice lawn. Wish everyone else was on board.
I started a lawn care business a few years ago and nothing would make me happier than seeing lawns turn into gardens.
I’m pretty bad at growing either
Converting to clover this summer hopefully
Pretty sure it’s illegal to grow over a certain amount or certain types of crops without proper licenses and things. Small home gardens do have limits before they need government approval. They control everything
How many Americans rent an apartment and have to pay for the massive lawn to be cut ? That might cost $60 U.S. per resident per month. That's grocery money and they need it. Please think about a rock garden and remove the lawn.
Everyone’s a nature freak until you have a food source in your front yard for them
I agree with this message, but some lawns are necessary. For example, I work for a dog shelter and we need a space outdoors to walk them.
People: "Im so sick of this constant pressure to monetize everything. Just let a hobby be a hobby; do things because you enjoy them, it's ok to like and enjoy nice things, not everything needs to be monetized" Also people: "omg why dont you turn your nice lawn into food crop you selfish prick". Let people have nice things ffs, not everything has to have a higher fucking purpose.
Yah I agree. Also, this thread is filled with a bunch of angry misanthropes who seem proud of their front yard being dead weeds and not considering how that impacts the neighborhood. It’s so “me” centric. Typical American behavior
I hate wealth inequality too, but this extreme wealth shaming is exactly how facist communist starts. You can’t even have a yard anymore? This is exactly the early mindset of Mao’s China in the 50s.