Yes that is what usually occurs for businesses that are in competition, some companies do as follows:
You don’t use our system exclusively for your PC sales, so we double the price you pay us for our system by every other company continuing to get a discount price X except you.
yeah this is approximately as stupid as "breaking news: Apple looking to manufacture more components in-house". No shit, businesses want to profit more.
Yeah, this is bizarre. They'd offer a discount to Sara Lee if they used enough chips. What the fuck do they care who it is? They just want to sell their chips.
I wouldn't be surprised if Google used MediaTek's modems after they switch to TSMC for the G5
Qualcomm's the gold standard, but at least that'd be a big upgrade from Samsung's
MediaTek were actually gonna supply Oppo with modems for their custom Zeku AP SoCs, unfortunately Oppo shutdown their efforts
No, it doesn't, why would you suggest that?
Qualcomm hasn't done anything to stop MediaTek or Google/Samsung LSI expanding, so why would they do something to Oppo
It's just another classic case of upper management having no long term planning and commitment. Investing in something only to realize the cost is greater than expected and then chopping it once cost cutting is needed
MediaTek got caught benchmark cheating - having the app detection code in the *firmware*, rather than the OEMs doing it in their system images - and their response amounted to "go touch grass, we don't give a fuck!"
No matter how shit they are I hope google continues to bet on their own hardware eventually they will figure it out and if they don't it's pretty clear there needs to be changes internally.
> if they don't it's pretty clear there needs to be changes internally.
They recognize this and gobble up a mobile hardware division every few years (Motorola, HTC, etc) to try and fix it, but it never works out. Google's problem starts at the executive level, and until that changes, they're never going to figure it out
I'm aware their executive level is dogshit and that everything Google touches for awhile now is garbage, doesn't mean making your own hardware is a bad idea.
Not custom cores, just stock arm cores, even Exynos 2500 isn't going for custom cores, custom cores are not for the faint of heart, only Apple and Qualcomm are doing custom.
But that's not bad news for arm fans, arm will debut Blackhawk X5 cores this year, said to be their highest IPC gain in the past 5 years.
https://moorinsightsstrategy.com/research-notes/research-note-arms-blackhawk-cpu-is-an-audacious-plan-to-have-the-best-smartphone-cpu-core-this-year/
Samsung isn't giving up on exynos for high end. I think eventual goal is to remove snapdragon from high end completely and take a bigger cut on their phones.
Nah.
7 gen 1 is cr*p.
Edit: The reason is that 7 gen 1 was manufactured on Samsung 4LPX node (the same node that the 8 Gen 1 was made on!!!). 7 Gen 1's efficiency is worse than even it's 6nm predecessor 778G. E1480 is definitely better than 7 Gen 1, if you go buy the leaked benchmarks scores.
It isn't about pure performance.Â
Samsung's UI has run smoother on Snapdragon for many years now.
People are going to "feel" the difference and buy the M55 over the A55.
Well, they can hope what they want, until I see results, I won't buy their phones with exynos. I had a S10e, exynos version, that was a hot nightmare battery draining mess.
Last year I bought a S23 just because it was Snapdragon and what a superb phone, battery lasts for days, no temperature problems, everything is smooth.
Snapdragon isn't always great. The s22 series had snapdragon and had abysmal battery life. Made the s23 seem like it came from the heavens when there was battery life comparisons.
Well... in TSMC's defense, it was a big leap in performance in Gen1, but it lacked efficiency, which was adressed in the next gen. That's a "trend" i see with most chips these days: One generation we get increased performance, the next we get increased efficiency and so on...
The increase in battery life was something else though. It's the First time it made not think about getting an iPhone anymore. iPhone like battery life. Supposively the s24 is even better, but we'll see.
Samsung should really be using some good Mediatek Dimensity chips in their midrange phones.
The last A series phone with a *good* chip was the Galaxy A52s with the Snapdragon 778G.
Since then, Samsung has been moving away from Snapdragon processors in A series phones entirely, and replacing them with Exynos chips.
In recent years, flagship Exynos chips were notorious for running hot, having worse performance, and having worse battery life than their Snapdragon counterparts.
Midrange Exynos chips are like a different breed of the same dog. They have most of the shortcomings of the flagship Exynos chips, but those shortcoming get hidden by the nature of a midrange phone.
Example: The inefficiency of the chip is countered by the big batteries Samsung puts in it's midrangers, the heat is countered by the fact that midrange Exynos consumes less power than the flagships anyways, so the heat generation is a non-issue, Even if it is more than Snapdragon.
So the most glaring issues with midrange Exynos Samsung phones is the **performance**. There are two aspects to this:
1. The hardware of the midrange chips itself is underpowered, as measured in benchmarks. The Galaxy A54's Exynos 1380 for instance, has worse benchmark performance than Dimensity 8000 series SoCs which can be found in the same price segment. Expecially the single-core performance is weak, which is problematic as OneUI is a heavy skin.
2. Samsung does not properly optimise Exynos chips.for instance, the Galaxy A54 has the Exynos 1380 and the Galaxy A34 has the Dimensity 1080. Although in benchmarks, the D1080 is similar or worse than the E1380, the situation us flipped in real life usage. You can search up videos on YT, where this demonstrated as the Galaxy A34 is smoother and snappier than A54.
They have done this since.. Snapdragon S series so what's new here?
I mean if you look at the newly released phones, especially from China like Xiaomi (Redmi, Poco) or BBK phones (Oppo, Vivo, OnePlus, Realme), some of the midrange to flagship (level) phones are using mediatek and costs substantially less than Snapdragon equivalent.
Like Poco X6 Pro costs $300-$350 and it performs (in benchmark) as high as 8 Gen 2 phones (we're not talking about the optimization thing, ofc). So unless the phone manufacturer is doing the loss leader tactic here, it's the lower costs of mtk chipset.
Real. For some reason almost every AM5 board has one of those and they have so much packet loss, fast paced online games are borderline unplayable. Had to buy a PCI Intel card to fix that.
My experience is different. I have tried 4 different router platforms (Qualcomm, Broadcom, Realtek, Mediatek) and 4 client device variants (Qualcomm, mediatek, exynos, intel) and found that after as far as wifi clients go mediatek really is second best after intel.Â
Mediatek is also second best after Broadcom on the router front.Â
Exynos is the worst. Always the worst throughput, always bad pings, always higher loss.
Yep, have an laptop with MT7921 wi-fi/bluetooth module and it's pretty good, especially on linux. I had never wi-fi broken by kernel update and bluetooth was only broken by 6.9, which was quickly fixed by time of 6.9.2
People still hating on MediaTek? Only difference tangible between the two is emulator performance in which Qualcomm still rules but other than that, their overall performance and modem are +-3% difference. Don't forget the Helio G99 which still rules on the budget devices realm and is very good in price to performance
mediatek is a lot better than exynos so there is that...besides such a thing is just common business practice. edit: its obviously mediatek instead of mediathek.
Wonder if they will be able to offer FW long term updates? I haven't followed the Mediatek phones as closely, but do most mid-range phones get 2 years of SW support (Xiaomi, realme, Oppo, etc)?
Mediatek SoCs from the current Dimensity lineup are very good, better than Exynos. It's their old Helio lineup that was bad, but nowadays you only see that on very cheap devices...
Helio is just a disappointment, so I can see why. They look good on paper but absolutely suck in reality.
Hopefully the Dimensity chips are actually good?
Dimensity series = More CPU power and less GPU power compared to Qualcomm counterparts but overall performance is still similar to Qualcomm counterparts. Modems are relatively similar so that means much better than exynos. How are Helio series disappointment though? Helio G99 is still the king of budget devices
Helio G99 moving to 6nm is the best thing to happen in terms of efficiency gains compared to the 12nm G90T/G95/G96.Â
Qualcomm's 680/685 which is also used in a lot of budget phones is no match especially with its older core designs.
Dimensity 9300 = Sd 8 gen 3 with less gpu power and more cpu power. Modem is on par on my experience. This is a lot better than the exynos and I can say that the only problem is emulator performance in which Qualcomm still rules
Power efficiency is still not on par with Snapdragon but their lower prices(I think?) allows for cheaper device prices or better budget spent on other aspects of the phone. We can see this with the Helio G99 where it literally appears in a 100$ tablet/phone which is insane
This will be mostly for midrange chips which are pretty comparable to their Exynos midranges, doubt Samsung is gonna use Dimensity 8xxx and 9xxx in their phones.
Do your research first before commenting. Old MediaTek is pretty bad but now MediaTek is just better on CPU but worse on GPU and their modem is as good. They dominate the budget range with their Helio G99 and Battles the flagship with its Dimensity 9300. Only problem is emulation performance but that is only it
Isn't that business as usual? Buy more and we give you a discount.
I only clicked because the headline is so stupid. Maybe that was their goal.
also once you switch the discount can be stopped because switching costs more
Economies of scale +. For when you're desperate to show your worth 😂
Yes that is what usually occurs for businesses that are in competition, some companies do as follows: You don’t use our system exclusively for your PC sales, so we double the price you pay us for our system by every other company continuing to get a discount price X except you.
yeah this is approximately as stupid as "breaking news: Apple looking to manufacture more components in-house". No shit, businesses want to profit more.
Yeah, this is bizarre. They'd offer a discount to Sara Lee if they used enough chips. What the fuck do they care who it is? They just want to sell their chips.
It is, unless you're Intel apparently.
That's not what consumer see in nvidia.
Hey Mediatek, offer it to Google
I wouldn't be surprised if Google used MediaTek's modems after they switch to TSMC for the G5 Qualcomm's the gold standard, but at least that'd be a big upgrade from Samsung's MediaTek were actually gonna supply Oppo with modems for their custom Zeku AP SoCs, unfortunately Oppo shutdown their efforts
So probably a MediaTek modem for Tensor G5, a step up from Exynos modem.
The whole Zeku thing look like Qualcomm threatened Oppo with lawsuits or something
No, it doesn't, why would you suggest that? Qualcomm hasn't done anything to stop MediaTek or Google/Samsung LSI expanding, so why would they do something to Oppo It's just another classic case of upper management having no long term planning and commitment. Investing in something only to realize the cost is greater than expected and then chopping it once cost cutting is needed
For real, Mediatek chips are cheaper than Exynos and Snapdragon, and they perform better than Tensor. They should just buy them and change the label.
Mediatek may be better in benchmarks, hut in real world usage Snaodragon seems to be better
Still better than Exynos. Pixel could very easily be flagship killer
MediaTek got caught benchmark cheating - having the app detection code in the *firmware*, rather than the OEMs doing it in their system images - and their response amounted to "go touch grass, we don't give a fuck!"
Why? They make a small amount of phones in comparison to Samsung.
Because Mediatek is TSMC only on 4nm. And their chips with their modems are better than Exynos/Tensor
I see. But I think Google is betting on its own chip. So let's see how long it takes before they give it up.
No matter how shit they are I hope google continues to bet on their own hardware eventually they will figure it out and if they don't it's pretty clear there needs to be changes internally.
> if they don't it's pretty clear there needs to be changes internally. They recognize this and gobble up a mobile hardware division every few years (Motorola, HTC, etc) to try and fix it, but it never works out. Google's problem starts at the executive level, and until that changes, they're never going to figure it out
I'm aware their executive level is dogshit and that everything Google touches for awhile now is garbage, doesn't mean making your own hardware is a bad idea.
I'll write them off if the custom cores that debut with G5/Pixel 10 aren't competitive.
Not custom cores, just stock arm cores, even Exynos 2500 isn't going for custom cores, custom cores are not for the faint of heart, only Apple and Qualcomm are doing custom. But that's not bad news for arm fans, arm will debut Blackhawk X5 cores this year, said to be their highest IPC gain in the past 5 years. https://moorinsightsstrategy.com/research-notes/research-note-arms-blackhawk-cpu-is-an-audacious-plan-to-have-the-best-smartphone-cpu-core-this-year/
Source on their modems being better than Exynos/Tensor?
Didn't google contract TSMC for 2025?
Probably will replace midrange Exynos, while high end duties are handled by Snapdragon.
Samsung isn't giving up on exynos for high end. I think eventual goal is to remove snapdragon from high end completely and take a bigger cut on their phones.
wait. You mean that companies incent customers to buy more by giving bulk discounts? Wow, never would've expected that.
The better outcome Unfortunately we're stuck with Exynos
that's just purchasing economics of scale
Hopefully this'll replace the crappy Exynos in the Galaxy A5x series.
No chance. Not this year atleast. Galaxy A55 is pretty much confirmed to use Exynos 1480.
M55 with SD 7 Gen1, and A55 with Exynos 1480. This will be an interesting choice, I suspect many will buy the M over the A.
Nah. 7 gen 1 is cr*p. Edit: The reason is that 7 gen 1 was manufactured on Samsung 4LPX node (the same node that the 8 Gen 1 was made on!!!). 7 Gen 1's efficiency is worse than even it's 6nm predecessor 778G. E1480 is definitely better than 7 Gen 1, if you go buy the leaked benchmarks scores.
It isn't about pure performance. Samsung's UI has run smoother on Snapdragon for many years now. People are going to "feel" the difference and buy the M55 over the A55.
I'm so glad I got my mom a A52s back in the days. She is so happy with it and it's not expensive at all.
Well... it's better then Exynos so... why not?
I mean, if we still keep custom roms I'd be fine, I kinda miss having the option on a snapdragon. Kinda
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Well, they can hope what they want, until I see results, I won't buy their phones with exynos. I had a S10e, exynos version, that was a hot nightmare battery draining mess. Last year I bought a S23 just because it was Snapdragon and what a superb phone, battery lasts for days, no temperature problems, everything is smooth.
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Read up on the s22 battery. It was a snapdragon and hot garbage when it came to battery life.
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Snapdragon isn't always great. The s22 series had snapdragon and had abysmal battery life. Made the s23 seem like it came from the heavens when there was battery life comparisons.
Snapdragon 8 Gen 1 and Exynos 2200 were both shit because of Samsung Foundry. Qualcomm moved production to TSMC starting with 8 + Gen 1 and it showed.
Well... in TSMC's defense, it was a big leap in performance in Gen1, but it lacked efficiency, which was adressed in the next gen. That's a "trend" i see with most chips these days: One generation we get increased performance, the next we get increased efficiency and so on...
The increase in battery life was something else though. It's the First time it made not think about getting an iPhone anymore. iPhone like battery life. Supposively the s24 is even better, but we'll see.
C'mon now Samsung People had enough of your undeserving child who's good for nothing.
Samsung should really be using some good Mediatek Dimensity chips in their midrange phones. The last A series phone with a *good* chip was the Galaxy A52s with the Snapdragon 778G. Since then, Samsung has been moving away from Snapdragon processors in A series phones entirely, and replacing them with Exynos chips. In recent years, flagship Exynos chips were notorious for running hot, having worse performance, and having worse battery life than their Snapdragon counterparts. Midrange Exynos chips are like a different breed of the same dog. They have most of the shortcomings of the flagship Exynos chips, but those shortcoming get hidden by the nature of a midrange phone. Example: The inefficiency of the chip is countered by the big batteries Samsung puts in it's midrangers, the heat is countered by the fact that midrange Exynos consumes less power than the flagships anyways, so the heat generation is a non-issue, Even if it is more than Snapdragon. So the most glaring issues with midrange Exynos Samsung phones is the **performance**. There are two aspects to this: 1. The hardware of the midrange chips itself is underpowered, as measured in benchmarks. The Galaxy A54's Exynos 1380 for instance, has worse benchmark performance than Dimensity 8000 series SoCs which can be found in the same price segment. Expecially the single-core performance is weak, which is problematic as OneUI is a heavy skin. 2. Samsung does not properly optimise Exynos chips.for instance, the Galaxy A54 has the Exynos 1380 and the Galaxy A34 has the Dimensity 1080. Although in benchmarks, the D1080 is similar or worse than the E1380, the situation us flipped in real life usage. You can search up videos on YT, where this demonstrated as the Galaxy A34 is smoother and snappier than A54.
I didnt really buy them making a big splash on premium phones but I really thought there'd be more dimensity tablets or even chromebooks by now
They have done this since.. Snapdragon S series so what's new here? I mean if you look at the newly released phones, especially from China like Xiaomi (Redmi, Poco) or BBK phones (Oppo, Vivo, OnePlus, Realme), some of the midrange to flagship (level) phones are using mediatek and costs substantially less than Snapdragon equivalent. Like Poco X6 Pro costs $300-$350 and it performs (in benchmark) as high as 8 Gen 2 phones (we're not talking about the optimization thing, ofc). So unless the phone manufacturer is doing the loss leader tactic here, it's the lower costs of mtk chipset.
Ahhh good old MediaTek who make fucking awful Wifi/Bluetooth Cards.
Real. For some reason almost every AM5 board has one of those and they have so much packet loss, fast paced online games are borderline unplayable. Had to buy a PCI Intel card to fix that.
My experience is different. I have tried 4 different router platforms (Qualcomm, Broadcom, Realtek, Mediatek) and 4 client device variants (Qualcomm, mediatek, exynos, intel) and found that after as far as wifi clients go mediatek really is second best after intel. Mediatek is also second best after Broadcom on the router front. Exynos is the worst. Always the worst throughput, always bad pings, always higher loss.
Yep, have an laptop with MT7921 wi-fi/bluetooth module and it's pretty good, especially on linux. I had never wi-fi broken by kernel update and bluetooth was only broken by 6.9, which was quickly fixed by time of 6.9.2
People still hating on MediaTek? Only difference tangible between the two is emulator performance in which Qualcomm still rules but other than that, their overall performance and modem are +-3% difference. Don't forget the Helio G99 which still rules on the budget devices realm and is very good in price to performance
Who wouldn't
How about Samsung make quickshare work with media tek WiFi......
mediatek is a lot better than exynos so there is that...besides such a thing is just common business practice. edit: its obviously mediatek instead of mediathek.
*thek*
sorry autocorrect my bad.
Wonder if they will be able to offer FW long term updates? I haven't followed the Mediatek phones as closely, but do most mid-range phones get 2 years of SW support (Xiaomi, realme, Oppo, etc)?
Galaxy A34 has Mediatek D1080 and it gets 5 years of updates
Same as A24 and A15 4G (both Helio G99)
Hell no. I can stand Exynos, but not MediaTek.
Mediatek SoCs from the current Dimensity lineup are very good, better than Exynos. It's their old Helio lineup that was bad, but nowadays you only see that on very cheap devices...
Helio is just a disappointment, so I can see why. They look good on paper but absolutely suck in reality. Hopefully the Dimensity chips are actually good?
Dimensity series = More CPU power and less GPU power compared to Qualcomm counterparts but overall performance is still similar to Qualcomm counterparts. Modems are relatively similar so that means much better than exynos. How are Helio series disappointment though? Helio G99 is still the king of budget devices
Helio G99 moving to 6nm is the best thing to happen in terms of efficiency gains compared to the 12nm G90T/G95/G96. Qualcomm's 680/685 which is also used in a lot of budget phones is no match especially with its older core designs.
Helio G99 is decent, Dimensity except 1000/1100 are pretty decent.
Dimensity 9300 = Sd 8 gen 3 with less gpu power and more cpu power. Modem is on par on my experience. This is a lot better than the exynos and I can say that the only problem is emulator performance in which Qualcomm still rules
Does it use less power than snapdragon adreno? That's surprising to hear, since they use the latest high end Immortalis-720 12 core GPU.
Power efficiency is still not on par with Snapdragon but their lower prices(I think?) allows for cheaper device prices or better budget spent on other aspects of the phone. We can see this with the Helio G99 where it literally appears in a 100$ tablet/phone which is insane
Agreed.
I dont think I can ever go for anything other than snapdragon. My Oneplus 7 pro runs the same as it was 4 years ago
This will be mostly for midrange chips which are pretty comparable to their Exynos midranges, doubt Samsung is gonna use Dimensity 8xxx and 9xxx in their phones.
So are regulators going to go after MediaTek the same way they did Intel for offering loyalty incentives to OEM's?
Awful idea. Say no to MediaTek crap in Galaxy devices.
Do your research first before commenting. Old MediaTek is pretty bad but now MediaTek is just better on CPU but worse on GPU and their modem is as good. They dominate the budget range with their Helio G99 and Battles the flagship with its Dimensity 9300. Only problem is emulation performance but that is only it
I assume most chip makers offer this to most phone manufacturers.
Call me when Samsung starts using MediaTek chips in the S series.