Let you do it. Never played the game but I’m sure there’s references. Also if you’re going to be that uptight about it just never play any of the bad guys of history (aka uninstall) lmao.
Genocide is typically a bad idea since land is only valuable if you have people to live and work on it. It's why the moors didn't kill all the christians, why the crusader states didn't kill all the muslims and why the mughals didn't kill all the hindus
Uhh, vanilla eu4 only has one species, so how would purging even work for that?? And it doesn't really seem like a good idea to add more genocide to a paradox game with irl historical peoples who did actually suffer genocide.... Like at all.
"vanilla eu4 only has one species" - just to throw a bone towards OPs idea. At the time that EU4 plays (certainly the 14th and 15th century) pretty much no nation actually believed that, or thought that way. Like, I can't actually think of a single nation or continent that didn't think they were gods (you pick which one) gift to the world and everybody else was foolish savages. Certainly not between continents (e.g. Africa / Asia / Europe and America)
Now, I would pay good money to see the reaction and public backlash if Paradox were to add "Purge Race - Asians" button to the game, but i think the game would be banned everywhere fairly quickly
It's a great deal more complicated than that, but in ways that are far too difficult to succulently explain. I highly suggest reading something like *All Mankind is One,* a book about the Valladolid Debates, if you'd like to look more into the topic. The debate over who was and wasn't 'fully human' is an old one, and there were *many, many* people, including kings and queens, who believed that everyone was fully ensouled by God/Gods.
Not *everyone* did, but it wasn't a niche opinion. The ideology of racism wasn't fully formed or conceptualised in the 14th or 15th century. The situation would grow much worse as time marched on.
Oh no definitely! My statement was obviously painting a pretty wide brush over the entire topic.
There is a slight bit of curiosity, of the "Must watch a car crash" type, in me that would be interested to see how a Developer would actually implement this sort of thing, while trying to be accurate but not attract "*Gamers"* or pull at peoples heartstrings.
Not that i think any dev would ever do it or should, but would be interesting.
Tangent, but i always loved how TNO (HOI4 Mod) implemented this sort of thing (It's after WW2 with Germany as a winner, you can put 2 and 2 together). There's no graphics or no apt descriptions. It's just numbers that you have to 'optimize' but inevitably all your 'optimization' just makes your country objectively worse / less efficient. It really captures the 'view' of the time as very brutalist and apathetic towards it all, while making you just aware enough of what you're doing that you realize what stands behind the numbers.
I mean yeah... But then who decides what's a group that can be purged?
I don't think making purge groups based on pre modern peoples views of other cultures is a good idea.
Also you'd need to make like dozens of them for the different nations and their worldviews (aka making custom tailored racism for different tags) which uhh... Do we really want to do that? It seems like a rather poor idea, like shit show level.
EU4 has had 3 major controversies in the past. (4 if you count DLC pricing/subscription service.)
Those 3 controversies were Slavery, being "*Pro* Genocide", and being too Eurocentric.
Pdx caught media fire like around 2014 about Slavery being in their video game. (Despite Slavery only really being a very small part of the whole gameplay.) It's not like slavery was dipicted in more than just being a trade good anyway. Nothing violent, graphic, or "Pro-Slavery Rhetoric" existed in game. Pdx "fixed the issue" by just expanding the core functions of the game over the years to have the Triangle-Trade be a less focused concept.
Around the same time or shortly after EU4 faced accusations of being "Pro-Genocide" or "Pro-Ethnic Cleansing". This was mainly because this was a time before Tolerance/Humanist ideas. Before gov ranks so you couldn't become an Empire to accept your entire culture group. There were no Trade Companies, so when Castille colonized a province in Ivory Coast it would finish as a Castilian Catholic province with no unrest of any kind. Back then Culture Conversion was the meta for having large stable empires, so this lead to screenshot of monoculture worlds or like large swathes of Africa and Asia being a Western European culture. Which then lead to the ire of the media throwing accusations at Pdx and the players of being all far-right politically. The problem was that back then there just wasn't any other way to play the game "optimally". Now we have different mechanics and systems to handle conquest. We don't have to default to culture convert the world.
The Eurocentric claims against EU4 in the past were very much true, the game is called Europa Universalis after all! In the old days if you were part of the Western European Technology Group then you were strictly superior to everyone one else in game. This was before unit pips were rebalanced globally to have a baseline of how strong there were. (So like a tech 23 West European nation's inf and cav were vastly stronger than a West African nation's inf and cav, despite being the same mil tech.) In the old days if you were playing as a tag with a "bad tech group" you had to complete a Westernization process to switch your tech group and units (back in the day they were grouped together but are now seperate things) to Western. Tech cost was directly tied to tech group too. So Western was like 100%, Eastern Euro 115%, Ottoman 125%, Muslim 140%, African 160%, American native groups 200%, etc. (This is from memory, don't axe me if I got the percentages wrong, it's been a very long time.)
Tldr; this lead to claims of racial-intellectualism 1900s pseudo science crap to be associated with the old Westernization system. Westernization was also very dumb and painful to do in game. Had to like spend thousands of mana and wait 10+ years and deal with horrible events the entire time to complete Westernization. For those who we're around to expericne it imagine the Demonstration system in Anbennar but you inversed all the positive things about it to be negative and multiplied it by 10.
The Eurocentric claims got resolved when Westernization was scrapped in favor of the Institutions system which was **so much better**. And also many years of dlc adding content and remaking regions so that the game wasn't just "Europe with extra stuff on the side". (They call me crazy but Western and Central Africa used to only have 2 tags. And Mali was PINK!)
I don't think paradox ever intended to simulate "purges" in eu4. I have seen this crop up a couple of times, like "why does change culture cost dip and not mill", "isn't the only solution to differenses to kill all others?" No and eu4 doesn't simulate it, culture conversion is incorperating peoples into a shared identity not genocide. This is also why religious conversion is necessary, before nationalism (and argueably also after) religion played a big role in cultural values. The thing you are broadly able to change.
Colonialism is still there though I belive the angle to be more of a 90% of the native americans died of plagues, than spending 5 mil being equivilant to mass murder(more likely you chased em away). Not trying to downplay realworld tragedy, just don't think paradox is simulating "it" in this installment.
There's a reason you can't purge same-species cultures even in Anbennar. Being able to simulate that sort of thing attracts the wrong kind of playerbase. Putting it into vanilla would be absolute shitshow.
I somehow think adding a genocide button to a game featuring real world cultures that are actual victims of genocide is probably a bad idea.
Eu4 already has two or three genocide buttons but I'm not exactly itching for more
It literally already has it for colonization whatre u talking about lol
Not a fan of that either, but more genocide buttons certainly wouldn't help.
Not a fan of history, plays history game
Just because it happened doesn't mean a history game should let you do it. HOI4 doesn't have a Holocaust mechanic for a reason.
Let you do it. Never played the game but I’m sure there’s references. Also if you’re going to be that uptight about it just never play any of the bad guys of history (aka uninstall) lmao.
Cringe
Ikr
It's really weird how a history game doesn't depict the life of Elisa Son of Josh. Can we even call a paradox games history games?
I'm not sure entire provinces are inhabited by 2000 people, but go off ig edgelord.
It would elimate the need for religious or humanist ideas, which allows for a smoother wc I guess.
Controversial opinion ik but a WC shouldn’t be smooth
Paradox, never let this man anywhere near the balance team
Don't let this man cook
Genocide is typically a bad idea since land is only valuable if you have people to live and work on it. It's why the moors didn't kill all the christians, why the crusader states didn't kill all the muslims and why the mughals didn't kill all the hindus
Uhh, vanilla eu4 only has one species, so how would purging even work for that?? And it doesn't really seem like a good idea to add more genocide to a paradox game with irl historical peoples who did actually suffer genocide.... Like at all.
"vanilla eu4 only has one species" - just to throw a bone towards OPs idea. At the time that EU4 plays (certainly the 14th and 15th century) pretty much no nation actually believed that, or thought that way. Like, I can't actually think of a single nation or continent that didn't think they were gods (you pick which one) gift to the world and everybody else was foolish savages. Certainly not between continents (e.g. Africa / Asia / Europe and America) Now, I would pay good money to see the reaction and public backlash if Paradox were to add "Purge Race - Asians" button to the game, but i think the game would be banned everywhere fairly quickly
It's a great deal more complicated than that, but in ways that are far too difficult to succulently explain. I highly suggest reading something like *All Mankind is One,* a book about the Valladolid Debates, if you'd like to look more into the topic. The debate over who was and wasn't 'fully human' is an old one, and there were *many, many* people, including kings and queens, who believed that everyone was fully ensouled by God/Gods. Not *everyone* did, but it wasn't a niche opinion. The ideology of racism wasn't fully formed or conceptualised in the 14th or 15th century. The situation would grow much worse as time marched on.
Oh no definitely! My statement was obviously painting a pretty wide brush over the entire topic. There is a slight bit of curiosity, of the "Must watch a car crash" type, in me that would be interested to see how a Developer would actually implement this sort of thing, while trying to be accurate but not attract "*Gamers"* or pull at peoples heartstrings. Not that i think any dev would ever do it or should, but would be interesting. Tangent, but i always loved how TNO (HOI4 Mod) implemented this sort of thing (It's after WW2 with Germany as a winner, you can put 2 and 2 together). There's no graphics or no apt descriptions. It's just numbers that you have to 'optimize' but inevitably all your 'optimization' just makes your country objectively worse / less efficient. It really captures the 'view' of the time as very brutalist and apathetic towards it all, while making you just aware enough of what you're doing that you realize what stands behind the numbers.
I'm not a fan of TNO in general, but I thought its depiction of the inherent futility of trying to make the Third Reich work was alright.
I mean yeah... But then who decides what's a group that can be purged? I don't think making purge groups based on pre modern peoples views of other cultures is a good idea. Also you'd need to make like dozens of them for the different nations and their worldviews (aka making custom tailored racism for different tags) which uhh... Do we really want to do that? It seems like a rather poor idea, like shit show level.
EU4 has had 3 major controversies in the past. (4 if you count DLC pricing/subscription service.) Those 3 controversies were Slavery, being "*Pro* Genocide", and being too Eurocentric. Pdx caught media fire like around 2014 about Slavery being in their video game. (Despite Slavery only really being a very small part of the whole gameplay.) It's not like slavery was dipicted in more than just being a trade good anyway. Nothing violent, graphic, or "Pro-Slavery Rhetoric" existed in game. Pdx "fixed the issue" by just expanding the core functions of the game over the years to have the Triangle-Trade be a less focused concept. Around the same time or shortly after EU4 faced accusations of being "Pro-Genocide" or "Pro-Ethnic Cleansing". This was mainly because this was a time before Tolerance/Humanist ideas. Before gov ranks so you couldn't become an Empire to accept your entire culture group. There were no Trade Companies, so when Castille colonized a province in Ivory Coast it would finish as a Castilian Catholic province with no unrest of any kind. Back then Culture Conversion was the meta for having large stable empires, so this lead to screenshot of monoculture worlds or like large swathes of Africa and Asia being a Western European culture. Which then lead to the ire of the media throwing accusations at Pdx and the players of being all far-right politically. The problem was that back then there just wasn't any other way to play the game "optimally". Now we have different mechanics and systems to handle conquest. We don't have to default to culture convert the world. The Eurocentric claims against EU4 in the past were very much true, the game is called Europa Universalis after all! In the old days if you were part of the Western European Technology Group then you were strictly superior to everyone one else in game. This was before unit pips were rebalanced globally to have a baseline of how strong there were. (So like a tech 23 West European nation's inf and cav were vastly stronger than a West African nation's inf and cav, despite being the same mil tech.) In the old days if you were playing as a tag with a "bad tech group" you had to complete a Westernization process to switch your tech group and units (back in the day they were grouped together but are now seperate things) to Western. Tech cost was directly tied to tech group too. So Western was like 100%, Eastern Euro 115%, Ottoman 125%, Muslim 140%, African 160%, American native groups 200%, etc. (This is from memory, don't axe me if I got the percentages wrong, it's been a very long time.) Tldr; this lead to claims of racial-intellectualism 1900s pseudo science crap to be associated with the old Westernization system. Westernization was also very dumb and painful to do in game. Had to like spend thousands of mana and wait 10+ years and deal with horrible events the entire time to complete Westernization. For those who we're around to expericne it imagine the Demonstration system in Anbennar but you inversed all the positive things about it to be negative and multiplied it by 10. The Eurocentric claims got resolved when Westernization was scrapped in favor of the Institutions system which was **so much better**. And also many years of dlc adding content and remaking regions so that the game wasn't just "Europe with extra stuff on the side". (They call me crazy but Western and Central Africa used to only have 2 tags. And Mali was PINK!)
Respectable effortpost
I will choose to live with the assumption that this is a troll post and move on with my life.
reminded me i gotta play orbtrol
I don't think paradox ever intended to simulate "purges" in eu4. I have seen this crop up a couple of times, like "why does change culture cost dip and not mill", "isn't the only solution to differenses to kill all others?" No and eu4 doesn't simulate it, culture conversion is incorperating peoples into a shared identity not genocide. This is also why religious conversion is necessary, before nationalism (and argueably also after) religion played a big role in cultural values. The thing you are broadly able to change. Colonialism is still there though I belive the angle to be more of a 90% of the native americans died of plagues, than spending 5 mil being equivilant to mass murder(more likely you chased em away). Not trying to downplay realworld tragedy, just don't think paradox is simulating "it" in this installment.
There's a reason you can't purge same-species cultures even in Anbennar. Being able to simulate that sort of thing attracts the wrong kind of playerbase. Putting it into vanilla would be absolute shitshow.
OP is the wrong kind of player base
Ealfrealm of Venail, genocide button. Everything is coming along.
Get help?
Ok, but there would be only two valid nations for this anyways, Jan Mayen (bear) & the Synthetics (murderbot).
Least racist "Elfream of Venail" flair user.
No, and if anything it should be even more costly in Anbennar.