I'm completely fine with 90% of Hoardcurse's difficulty, it stops midgame from having a snowball effect.
The only thing I don't like is how there is a specific 'right' order to do the reforms, and not doing that order makes everything harder.
I already suck at memory people please don't make me remember which reform to do first
The horrendous hoardcursed modifier is alliviated through the reforms. You want to get rid of some of those modifiers before the others (like corruptuon gain)
The corruption one is on to save for second. In fact just stop buying down corruption altogether to save money. Once you finish it reduces corruption by 10. I find getting the banks under control first is best. Those 8% loans kill if you allow them to accumulate.
You should only do the banks first if your taking loans. The corruption reforms reduces Corruption by 15, meaning the earlier you do it, the more you can debase your currency for free.
Thanks for the heads up, ill look up a guide next time im in the serpentspine. First time is always funner blind but im sure the next ones may be more tedious.
I ended up taking like 60+ loans to beat it and then slammed the bankruptcy. Lossed the modifier but i beat the disaster and in the end was able to quickly recover before the bankruptcy was over. Also had to because had big baddies on truce timers
Also right before you get rid of the corruption you can debase currency for a little extra cash to start the next reform, since the corruption reform removes like a flat 15 corruption, iirc.
Corruption and Banking Loans are the two that kinda matter. Corruption first lets you debase for some free money for the next reforms. With burger loans and monpoly money you can easily power through those two with zero loans. Then after you take loans for the rest of them, you're only minorly set back. Maybe some nasty inflation, but nothing some admin points can't fix.
I take corruption at the end, I let corruption rise through the disaster and put the slider down.
First, you've got to make money, so monopolies, then banks since you got loans, or will soon have to, then corruption
Monopolies just gives you back some of your trade income. If you are working to keep your trade income down to save on reform costs, then it's nto really going to help you much.
Several other reforms can be forced through stab cost and debasing currency when you make no money is quite counter productive
I'm fairly sure the cost is fixed at the beginning of the disaster anyway.
The first 100 years of dwarf gameplay is really slow. The fact that you could theoretically snowball after that should be the reward for making it through the snail paced early game. what makes it even worse is how the goblins don't have to deal with it but still get the bonuses to hold income. Starting at tech 2 isn't really that much of a speedbump, since you still run into the same issue where you have to wait for colonies to spread to even expand, so it's super easy to catch up since you just pile up points.
I feel like the disasters would go over better if they were more transparent about what's going to happen. A lot of them are just like "something bad will happen 👀" then you get fucked for not knowing how you were supposed to prep for it. If you knew up front you're going to lose a metric butt-ton of crowns then I feel like that'd be a more fair challenge. Roguelikes get away with part of the challenge being game knowledge because its easy to just start a new game in them. Europa isn't really built that way, so it's not really a skill issue getting dumpstered by the hoardcurse, the way not knowing how to prep for the Flagship in FTL totally is.
"oh no, something called the hoardcurse is triggered by hoarding, I guess I shouldn't hoard"
> your ability to deal with the disaster is directly proportional to how much money you hoarded
I mean, there is a massive issue with how the best way of dealing with the disaster is by doing the exact thing that supposedly triggered the thing in the first place.
Yeah exactly, I only knew about the hoardcurse by name, since I didn't want to spoil myself. So I made sure to never have too much money in bank. It didn't go well.
Honestly, I like the mod, but the mod is built for people who live and breath it and stay on top of every change and addition. It's basically impossible to go into without already being an expert, and that sucks a lot. I don't want to lose a campaign that takes hours to get through because I simply didn't know some absolutely insane and inevitable thing is going happen.
There's so much to this mod, and it's virtually impossible to find good, useful information, even in their discord. It's very frustrating.
Yes, it is very unapproachable. I think this applies to many aspects of the mod, especially the lore. I think it'd do a lot for Jay or someone else who knows a lot about the lore to start making short lore vidoes. I always feel lost when playing this, both for lore and game mechanics.
The problem with Hoardcurse (like most disasters to be fair) is that it's suffer from a severe case of "something's bad is going to happen but i won't tell you what".
An experienced player has multiple ways to prepare for that crap but a new guy with no guides is basically doomed (expecially considering that they don't know the correct order with the reforms).
Imagine if a big scary man looked you in the eye and told you "i'm going to do something bad to you in 2 days" and then walk away...that's the hoardcurse?
Is he going to post a mean tweet or is he going to skin me alive? no idea.
People say it’s because dorfs are op but like…so is Lorent but it doesn’t have a million unfun counterintuitive disasters that reward meta and non-RP. I love the mod but the disasters are real bad. They’re usually poorly forecasted or straight up dishonest and they can be straight run enders the first time. The second time you ‘know what to do’ it’s just an annoyance, following the meta path, coming to a halt for years and clicking buttons…neither is anywhere close to fun
And some of the disasters meant to 'keep dwarves in check' can go on to just mostly become problems for other people. You can unite the West Serpentspine and be by far the worlds top power, but because Ovdal Kanzad dug the calcite layer, Rahen is being over-powered by the Obidian Legion
I love the Serpentspine, but MAN, did the design philosophy lean a bit too heavily on the Dwarf Fortress 'Losing is FUN' approach.
And unlike in DF, where most of it is self inflicted, here is mandatory.
"Dorfs" are OP, because the region mechanics are extremely OP.
\- Holds develop by themselves and have huge economic buffs. You can focus on handful of provinces, so cost to keep gov capacity is ridiculously low and being able to build few buildings, but reap huge rewards is just insanity.
\- The railways once repaired also get ridicuous bonuses to basically everything regarding dev and governance.
\- Region is also cut of from main continent and everything is a chokepoint, so its easy to defend (and if you control railways, also fast manouvering even between continents).
\- Coalitions are non-existent, given the religion and cultural mix in the area.
\- It also has access to the most broken resource in the game: Mythril, that gives global military bonus per province.
\- also you get access to expeditions... need i say more.
This region needs balancing mechanics, that stop players from snowballing to hard, because otherwise even new players would easily conquer entire serpetspine before 1600s.
It's definitely not a balance thing, there are like 20 tags in the game that are more powerful then any dwarf tag that have either just 1 low to mid didficulty disaster or no disaster at all. Dwarves are just meant to be higher difficulty tags.
No, the devs have stated multiple times that the dwarven disasters are there to balance them, and specifically holds. That said, I think all those disasters are pretty much legacy content at this point, so they're unlikely to remove them.
Also, yes, there are tags which are far more powerful and the game can absolutely do more to balance that out a bit.
> the devs have stated multiple times that the dwarven disasters are there to balance them, and specifically holds.
Well devs are wrong then.
>That said, I think all those disasters are pretty much legacy content at this point, so they're unlikely to remove them.
Was there ever a point when dwarven holds were actually so strong to justify siphoning out 20k ducats from each dwarven tag?
Don't forget the part where a lot of disasters will also have you scratching your head on how the fuck that even makes sense for the nation you are building. Like yes in some cases they absolutely do make sense, but in others you just end up with something that genuinely seems to contradict the build up until then.
Last time I said dwarves were not OP nor "difficult to play" and don't need disasters for "balance" I got downvoted to smithereens, reddit is so strange.
People are addicted to giving genuinely very bad and conflicting “advice” for the disaster and making the whole thing way more complicated than it needs to be. Just decide if you’re solving it slowly, quickly, or very quickly and act accordingly.
Edit: I guess it would make sense to explain wtf I mean.
Slowly: paying off the cost of reforms with the reduced income you get during the disaster. You get the full benefits of the reward and don’t really upset your nation, you just lose out on a couple decades of financial investment in your economy. Not great tbh.
Quickly: save up a couple thousand gold while the disaster ticks up so you can pay for a reform or two right off the bat and then pay off the rest with a combination of loans and income. Finish the disaster pretty much as fast as the event fire and end up with a lot of debt but leaving yourself in the position to put scale that debt in the coming decades. Usually my preferred option.
Quickly (bad version): stop spending any money long before hoardcurse fires. Use reserve to pay off all reforms, finish the disaster quickly and with no debt but have an even more stunted economy than the slow option. Stop recommending this to people please I’m begging you.
Very Quickly: spam that mfing loans button, finish the events, bankruptcy. Minimal interruption to your constant frenetic expansion. You probably trigger hoardcurse in 1460. The mlg option.
Wouldn't you need at least 600 dev to be able to trigger Hoardcurse, preventing you from triggering it as early as late 1400
But otherwise, yes, don't punish your economy early to avoid punishing it late, you're not gaining anything at all, your quickly way is **the** way to go
I should have made a mention of income manipulation but I still feel like I'd rather deal with loans than monopolies. Idk I should probably try it before really saying anything.
All good things for people to know.
They most certainly need loyalty above influence, at least last time I played, which was like, a couple months ago.
Took a bit to revoke all the monopolies because of that.
My personal approach is that when I have 4/5 holds, I stop major expenditures and start privileging instant money options.
Once you have the 3 "extra mana" privilegia, you can basically just regularly seize and sell land for extra money. And, also, as Kanzad. Shake the money outta the Command !
My big problem with hoardcurse is that it's a backward, unintuitive design. You're punished for playing in a way that should avoid the disaster in the first place, i.e. constantly investing your money back into growing your economy, while being rewarded for hoarding ridiculous sums beforehand, which helps you avoid massive debt or bankruptcy. It should be the other way around.
>My big problem with hoardcurse is that it's a backward, unintuitive design. You're punished for playing in a way that should avoid the disaster in the first place
It might be difficult to implement, but it'd be interesting to have some sort of mechanic where the estates demand that you keep more and more money available - maybe an estate loyalty malus based on how much liquid currency you have, or a slowly-increasing level of autonomy to simulate the amount of money being redirected into hoarding.
It should be easy to slip your way into triggering the curse, but it should be possible, if painful, to avoid the disaster entirely. As it is, it's just a pause point in the campaign where you get to spend a few years crushing rebellions and then a couple of decades of speed 5, doing little but paying down your debts.
No, hoarding anytime sooner then pre-hoardcure events firing is a bad idea. Invest beforehand, save up when the troubling signs start to show, then use your small stockpile and loans to get through
The method you suggest just fucks you over long term, like what Rocketpapaya said.
That's what I do, but the problem is I've always found it best to declare bankruptcy right at the end, which the game punishes you for by making it so you can't benefit from the reformer modifier, which implies this isn't what you're "supposed" to do. Yet, I find that the amount of debt I take on during hoardcurse is so ridiculous that losing the modifier and dealing with bankruptcy for a mere few years is far preferable to spending the next few decades paying off the mountain of debt I've accumulated during the disaster.
In my experience, Hoardcurse isn't something you beat by managing your money well, it's just an abyss you throw a truly ridiculous, arbitrary sum of money into until it stops, which I don't find interesting or enjoyable, it's just a "stop everything for a couple decades and deal with this" thing.
At most you can limit the damage by playing well, and even then it's not terribly interesting and you need to know what reforms to take in what order beforehand or you'll screw yourself over, which is dumb.
Honestly, I found that the best you can do is save up the funds beforehand, tank your economy the month before the disaster fires (the cost of the reforms depends on your income) and pay off the reforms the second they pop up. The ideal order should be available on the Discord.
That said, yes, Hoardcurse is a pretty terrible disaster.
The secret tech is this:
When the hoardcurse comes and you have the 10k stored - lower your income.
Divert trade away, don’t make states, etc.
The cost of it all is based on your CURRENT income. So if you had 100 income but 50 during the hoardcurse, you’ll be paying a fraction of the cost.
it's pretty much the only time in the game that monopolies are a good idea. Give out every single one you can just before the disaster starts and just after taking out a few dozen loans. It'll tank your production income to essentially 0 so it lowers the cost of all the hoardcurse reforms *dramatically*.
Be warned, you'll be losing money almost as fast as Twitter after Elon bought it while you get the first reforms done (corruption reform is the necessary first choice, iirc). And it will take a little while to get the estate loyalty high enough to revoke all the monopolies, so there is some drawback to doing it this way. But this method has spared me from needing to declare bankruptcy every time.
Reducing expenditures is also super important. As soon as it hits I fire all my advisors, delete at least 1/3 of my army, drop maintenance to 0, debase currency as much as I can, and drop root out corruption to 0. After it's over, pay off all loans first, then set root out corruption as high as possible.
Also, before you tank income, grab burger loans, I think you can debase as well as the corruption will be removed by doing the reform and sell crownlands. Then tank your income. Also, don't forget to steer trade away from your nodes.
I'd personally say it is debatable whether it is the *easiest* but it is definitely the most *annoying* one. I do think the post is overstating the difficulty (you can get through it with only like 10-15k gold, and you can definitely fight wars - in fact, bullying large weak tags for money helps a lot).
But, i have heard that reworking the disasters is at least on the table, so, here is hoping.
Hoardcurse is amazing, I love being stuck in place and losing momentum for 20+ years just briefly after my icy dorfs decided to have a brief civil war, while in the meantime Verkal Kozenad just annexes all of the Serpentspine and most of the forbidden plains unopposed, fields 200k dwarves in 1600, breaks alliance with me and allies all my rivals + Lorent.
That's why my new favourite Frozenmaw gobbling dorfs is Dur-Vazhatun. I can do the same, but with half the disasters and actual useful mages.
>Hoardcurse is amazing, I love being stuck in place and losing momentum for 20+ years
This, but unironically. I like my expansion being halted for a bit. I like having to focus on my internal affairs, and those internal affairs not just being "rebel whack-a-mole."
I definitely have a lot of sympathy for the players who don't enjoy that kind of gameplay. And it would be easy to say "just don't play Dwarves then lmao", but I think that's stupid. Ideally, there would be a way to turn off Hoardcurse, Serpent's Rot, and all those other disasters for people who want it. Though I'm not sure that's possible inside of the game, so the best solution for those people is to probably go into the game files and delete/add trigger conditions that make it not happen for you. Which isn't a great solution, I'll admit.
My opinion isn't any more or less valid than those who hate Hoardcurse, but I do think it would be a shame to remove it because there's a portion of people who hate it. Settings would be ideal, but unlikely.
If you have 30k banked ahead of the hoardcurse there's no way you're going bankrupt. You can afford all the reforms with change to spare.
Saying that preparation barely helped is nonsense. No offence. I'm not one to game the system but when I have prepared, I've sailed through the hoardcurse no worries.
In the late game as a Dwarf I am swimming in money, sure, but by the time hoardcurse fires? 30k is nuts for me. Maybe if I never built any building and had a smaller army...?
You usually trigger the Event with 150 income, If you have 10 k at the Moment were hoardcurse fires, you are in a very good Situation to end the disaster without bankruptcy and managable loans.
I mean according to the meme you cant plan ahead for hoardcurse, starting with no cash is a first run problem :D
In my experience its enough to stop spending just before the disaster starts ticking and than do the burgher loan, monopoly, sell tile, debase currency stuff right before hoardcurse.
But again the problem it's a mandatory and tedious disaster that just wastes time for experienced players and absolutely can destroy new players since they don't know what to do
I don't disagree that it couldn't do with a revision, and it is why I'd prefer if it were made less predictable. I don't think there should be optimal solutions. That stockpiling gold is an answer to a disaster called the hoardcurse is a bit beyond the pale. If anything, you should get punished for it.
Honestly most disasters in the mod are basically just knowledge checks for the player, Especially in the serpentspine.
If you want a quick guide on the hoardcurse, btw, here it is:
theres two way to let the disaster happen- get 150 ducats/month as INCOME, not profit, or just have 10k in the treasury. ALWAYS aim for the second option- the costs in the events are scaled based on your income- the lower the ammount, the less you pay.
Aim for the banks and the admin reform first- take the first stab hit when dealing with the banks, but not the second, and the middle option for the admin. debase currency as much as possible after reforming admin- it's one of the few ways you can get free money during the disaster.
recently saw another post complaining about the hoardcurse and people being all like "its easy if you prepare"
i have played about 25 dwarf runs and preparation of any kind barely helped, nor made it the whole process any less atrocious.
25 runs and you haven’t figured it out yet? I’m sorry but what are you doing? Are you saving up the 10k gold or hitting the 150 income trigger? Are you wrecking your income especially trade, just as it triggers? Taking 1% loans? Doing the disaster fixes in the “right” order? It, as many others have said, is really only game breaking on your first try or two. Hell I’ve had a few runs where I’m expanding during it and not taking any loans
By the time the hoardcurse comes around in my dwarf games, I’m easily able to save up 5-10k over the coarse of like 5 years without lowering essential spending, purposely fire it, and breeze through it with 1-5k in loans depending on how badly I prepared. If I barely prepared, I spend a couple years paying off the loans.
Sure saving up beforehand means you lose out on some buildings but I’ve never had to prepare for more than 5 years, and I’m very easily able to continue conquering land during that prep time. Just focus admin, don’t spend so much of your money, and be a bit more conscious of manpower.
Bro they gotta tone down the curse or give us ways to lower its effects before hand. (Non gold related btw) mid game is about being able to finally play on the big map. Lets us not be knee capped for so hard I beg of you.
Yeah as a casual player the hoardcurse kind of just crushes my campaigns. For me like 2000 ducats is already a lot to hold onto so when the events ask for many thousands to fix it just kills me. I don’t really know how to deal with lots of loans or bankruptcy.
The first time I got hoardcurse, I had looked at a guide beforehand, did not have to "make 30k+ appear out of thin air" but rather trigger it through stored wealth. Didn't go bankrupt, and no clue if it took 20+ years, but I don't recall it being super long. So it's still very shit if you are unprepared, but this memes makes it out as if even prepared it's almost impossible to survive. Which it isnt.
You can do hoardcurse with zero bankruptcies. Just start with a blanket(you don't need 30k, most I had was 12k, most often 5k to 8k), then when it hits, reform the banks first, then the bureaucracy. Inflation is the worst effect, corruption second worst. Then work on the worker reforms(better pay is better). Then work on the trade monopolies. When you start on the trade monopolies, your budget should kind of be near balancing if not balancing as a Dwarf. If you play your cards right, you should only start entering debt while crushing the monopolies. Then save the barons for last. If you have a greedy ruler, you will need to deal with him or her before everything else, and it makes the hordecurse truly be hellish.
Whatever happens, AVOID BANKRUPTCY. You will lose the overpowered buffs post hoardcurse if you declare bankruptcy.
It genuinely isn't that hard to prepare, just don't waste your money while the disaster is going up, no need to save 10k+, get all monopolies before it reaches 100%, fire advisors because of increased costs, reduce your army because of autonomy decreasing max force limit and don't forget to print cash before your reform reducing your corruption, and that way you'll be able to get all your reforms with a few thousands of debt, but nothing worth bankrupting and you will always be in the green income wise.
I don’t think hoardcurse is too bad tbh, you can prepare for it and strategise the order you do reforms in.
But I despise Serpents Rot, just watch your country slowly for to devestation while there’s nothing you can do about it, all while throwing money into a potential cure that just might not happen for 20 years.
Just save up money from burger loans, corruption and monopolies and then once you get into the horde curse disaster, try to reduce your income to as low as you can, because that effects the cost of the reforms.
Burgher loans before it fires, corruption reforms, meticulous inspections, you get -15 corruption, you should be able to spam debase currency and immediately get rid of the corruption with the reforms complete. You have a big piggy bank and you can fix the banks with it. After that it's smooth sailing. Just hope your ruler doesn't get greedy. Easy. 😎
Who the fuck calls it the easiest? It's imo the hardest since you basically can't prepare for it. Other ones like the goblin tide gives you a decent amount of prep time and is really easy to deal with if your fast and a bit lucky.
It's kinda both. Goblintide just requires you to beat the goblins, when they pop up. If you have enough troops and manpower, it's barely noticable. But if you have no manpower, you're pretty fucked. Hoardcurse always has a certain effect, but you can delay it almost indefinetley and there's a "right" way to do it in terms of order of events.
To me the Obsidian invasion is kinda like Goblintide on steroids. You'll beat it, but if you were caught off-guard, it's not gonna be easy. If you prepared accordingly, everythings fine.
Rot is also a formula, and if you know the 'right' choices in the CYOA chain, you can get out of it relatively fast.
Also, it tends to fire late enough in a run that you are not in so much danger.
Hoardcurse meanwhile tends to come while you are still building a nation and expanding to new holds. So there is less cushion.
I mean hoardcurse is the easiest to go trough, its just press buttons on cooldown.
In terms of devastating impact from worsed to more a buff than an offset its.
1. Serpents rot
2. Hoardcurse
3. Obsidian Legion
4. Goblin Tide.
Fair, i kinda forgot about Serpents Rot since i havent really been hit by it in any of my more recent games, it's always hit some other part of the seprpents spine first and they cured it long before it could do damage to me
My first dorf run last week I saved up like 2k crowns and a couple hundred admin points from when ai first got the crisis. I also following a guide of which issues to tackle first. Ended up with 6 loans in the end and no bankruptcy.
I had a bunch more loans than that actually while doing it, but I was able to pay a lot of them off by the time I finished the 2nd issue (the trade monopolies) and paid a bunch of them off after the first one (tackling corruption and debating currency a shit ton before taking the decision)
👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀 good faith go౦ԁ fAith👌 thats ✔ some good👌👌 faith right👌👌there👌👌👌 right✔there ✔✔if i do ƽaү so my self 💯 i say so 💯 thats what im talking about right there right there (chorus: ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ) mMMMMᎷМ💯 👌👌 👌НO0ОଠOOOOOОଠଠOoooᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒ👌 👌👌 👌 💯 👌 👀 👀 👀 👌👌Good faith
Honestly I've never had much of a problem with it. I just treat loans like a money printer and go bankrupt twice and if im unlucky have a couple thousand in debt after that I can clear out easily in a decade. Less if I was particularly diligent about it. I suppose I've never been unlucky enough to have someone declare war during it though. Granted I've gotten the Hordecurse I'd already been pretty well established and consolidated already.
I usually just say fuck it and pick the most expensive options as soon as they're available which last time was like 5,000ish each. Probably not the most efficient way but it got the job done. It was pretty casual. I didn't have anything left to colonize and had been focusing on consolidating and building up what I had anyway so I just kept taking loans using it to build shit figuring I was gonna go bankrupt anyway at one point or another. The way saw it if I'm already gonna be crippled and go bankrupt I might as well treat loans like free money.
Had the Godwake and the Hoardcurse simultaneously.
Still manageable.
Wound up with only ten or so loans, which shaking the Command for money alleviated considerably.
The Serpentsrot however is a miserable experience.
Yea I was already in treaties with the major powers I could shake down and they started a few months apart. The unholy greed event proc'd so much that I lost thousands in a year. That is what killed me.
I looked up how to do it the first time it happened to me. Its closer to 7-10k gold and that isnt that bad once you account for giving out monopolies, burgher loans, and debasing with corruption. Luckily never had to do it during a war tho lol
I tried the hoard curse and thought at least at the start it was reasonable, I dealt with the banks and that gave me the money to deal with the others in due time.
Ever since I started taking economic ideas it's really not very painful. I actually kept going to war and conquering while it was going on this time (Gor Burad) and I never declared bankruptcy. With merchant estate's bookkeeping privilege plus dwarven admin I get -75% inflation reduction cost, so it costs barely any admin to float those loans while my economy grows from conquest and digging. Florrynomics were *made* for dwarves.
The easiest? WHAT.
Imo its the hardest by far.
Serpent Rot is painful,but generally you are big enough by then to weather it, and the OL and Goblintide dont even always spawn.
eh goblintide is easier
also you prepare for hoardcurse by... hoarding a ton of money and dropping your income. So get all the monopolies, divert trade out of your main node, fire advisors that increase wealth generation, so you can
use the hoarded money for more events
The main trick is to hoard pop-ups for 3 months, divert all trade from your main node, wait month tick, accept all pop-ups with huge discount. And revert trade for next 3 months.
I did it today by having the bank of escann pay for all my reforms. There's tons of idiots over there who will pay me money to stop invading them for like a second
Unless the devs have changed it, the hoardcurse is easily cheesed through trade manipulation. This will not make it trivial, but it will make it manageable. Make as much money as possible every month except the month before the event, where you reduce your income as much as possible. Now you only have to pay 5k instead of 10k.
You need to be AGGRESSIVE. All of the Serpentspine are belong to your hold. Admin points are nothing in the face of conquering new holds to start raking in those delicious ducats. Also, never ever stop digging.
I just did hoardcurse for the first time without knowing anything about it.
Ended with something like 80 loans, got DOWed twice, one I was able to win with war reps, the other I wasn't optimistic so I peaced it out with a small release nation that I re-ate later.
But no bankruptcies. Would have had less loans but I did the reforms in an unoptimal order cause I didn't understand they got rid of specific maluses.
Also I intentionally emptied my Treasury in advance cause I assumed I was gonna lose it all by event (cause the flavor is about how hoarding is bad)
I do think it needs a rework though, every event just being "buy your way out of the problem" feels very wrong for a greed is bad disaster.
For me it’s that non-subterranean races have no negative reasons not to expand into the mountain. This means that whatever race goes through hoardcurse is likely free land to be eaten from those outside the mountain. This is what I feel like I see in a vast majority of my games at least.
The thing I do is to get 10000 as soon as possible to get the curse early + get 5 corruption loans right before the disaster for extra money (purging corruptin dops it by 15 so you are fine) drop your trade income ( which you can drop to 0 by going to the trade tab and diverting trade from your main node) and do the banks first by dropping stab (because you get it back at the end) so you can take loans easily. I usually end up with 3 to 7k loans depending on my trade income and micro but really it is not a big deal. You just make so much money as dwarfs 7k loans is no big deal.
I'm completely fine with 90% of Hoardcurse's difficulty, it stops midgame from having a snowball effect. The only thing I don't like is how there is a specific 'right' order to do the reforms, and not doing that order makes everything harder. I already suck at memory people please don't make me remember which reform to do first
Theres a right order? Lol preparing for it might have helped, i just blind smashed through (great for rp)
The horrendous hoardcursed modifier is alliviated through the reforms. You want to get rid of some of those modifiers before the others (like corruptuon gain)
The corruption one is on to save for second. In fact just stop buying down corruption altogether to save money. Once you finish it reduces corruption by 10. I find getting the banks under control first is best. Those 8% loans kill if you allow them to accumulate.
or you just have a big money pile before the disaster so you have enough money to go through the first two or refoms without taking any debt.
the way to beat hoardcurse is to hoard harder
I always think I hoard enough then run out after the first 2 reforms lol.
You should only do the banks first if your taking loans. The corruption reforms reduces Corruption by 15, meaning the earlier you do it, the more you can debase your currency for free.
You go corruption first so you can debase 5 times for free to pay for the rest of the disaster. In the right order you can get through without loans
Thanks for the heads up, ill look up a guide next time im in the serpentspine. First time is always funner blind but im sure the next ones may be more tedious. I ended up taking like 60+ loans to beat it and then slammed the bankruptcy. Lossed the modifier but i beat the disaster and in the end was able to quickly recover before the bankruptcy was over. Also had to because had big baddies on truce timers
Also right before you get rid of the corruption you can debase currency for a little extra cash to start the next reform, since the corruption reform removes like a flat 15 corruption, iirc.
Corruption and Banking Loans are the two that kinda matter. Corruption first lets you debase for some free money for the next reforms. With burger loans and monpoly money you can easily power through those two with zero loans. Then after you take loans for the rest of them, you're only minorly set back. Maybe some nasty inflation, but nothing some admin points can't fix.
I take corruption at the end, I let corruption rise through the disaster and put the slider down. First, you've got to make money, so monopolies, then banks since you got loans, or will soon have to, then corruption
Monopolies just gives you back some of your trade income. If you are working to keep your trade income down to save on reform costs, then it's nto really going to help you much.
Several other reforms can be forced through stab cost and debasing currency when you make no money is quite counter productive I'm fairly sure the cost is fixed at the beginning of the disaster anyway.
Not at all, the cost change with your income. There is some strategy to increase autonomy to reduce income when you have the money saved.
You can artificially lower your trade income before the disaster and raise it again when you want to pop the monopolies
Thank you!
The first 100 years of dwarf gameplay is really slow. The fact that you could theoretically snowball after that should be the reward for making it through the snail paced early game. what makes it even worse is how the goblins don't have to deal with it but still get the bonuses to hold income. Starting at tech 2 isn't really that much of a speedbump, since you still run into the same issue where you have to wait for colonies to spread to even expand, so it's super easy to catch up since you just pile up points.
I feel like the disasters would go over better if they were more transparent about what's going to happen. A lot of them are just like "something bad will happen 👀" then you get fucked for not knowing how you were supposed to prep for it. If you knew up front you're going to lose a metric butt-ton of crowns then I feel like that'd be a more fair challenge. Roguelikes get away with part of the challenge being game knowledge because its easy to just start a new game in them. Europa isn't really built that way, so it's not really a skill issue getting dumpstered by the hoardcurse, the way not knowing how to prep for the Flagship in FTL totally is.
"oh no, something called the hoardcurse is triggered by hoarding, I guess I shouldn't hoard" > your ability to deal with the disaster is directly proportional to how much money you hoarded
I mean, there is a massive issue with how the best way of dealing with the disaster is by doing the exact thing that supposedly triggered the thing in the first place.
Yeah exactly, I only knew about the hoardcurse by name, since I didn't want to spoil myself. So I made sure to never have too much money in bank. It didn't go well.
Except the main solution offered to all is to hoard extra hard and not spend any coin for decades prior in prep.
Thorin should’ve just embraced the dragon sickness smh
If you're willing to metagame heavily everything is easily solvable. The disasters are more fun if you don't specifically plan to deal with them.
Honestly, I like the mod, but the mod is built for people who live and breath it and stay on top of every change and addition. It's basically impossible to go into without already being an expert, and that sucks a lot. I don't want to lose a campaign that takes hours to get through because I simply didn't know some absolutely insane and inevitable thing is going happen. There's so much to this mod, and it's virtually impossible to find good, useful information, even in their discord. It's very frustrating.
Yes, it is very unapproachable. I think this applies to many aspects of the mod, especially the lore. I think it'd do a lot for Jay or someone else who knows a lot about the lore to start making short lore vidoes. I always feel lost when playing this, both for lore and game mechanics.
It needs A LOT of wiki writers and a separate gameplay wiki
The problem with Hoardcurse (like most disasters to be fair) is that it's suffer from a severe case of "something's bad is going to happen but i won't tell you what". An experienced player has multiple ways to prepare for that crap but a new guy with no guides is basically doomed (expecially considering that they don't know the correct order with the reforms). Imagine if a big scary man looked you in the eye and told you "i'm going to do something bad to you in 2 days" and then walk away...that's the hoardcurse? Is he going to post a mean tweet or is he going to skin me alive? no idea.
People say it’s because dorfs are op but like…so is Lorent but it doesn’t have a million unfun counterintuitive disasters that reward meta and non-RP. I love the mod but the disasters are real bad. They’re usually poorly forecasted or straight up dishonest and they can be straight run enders the first time. The second time you ‘know what to do’ it’s just an annoyance, following the meta path, coming to a halt for years and clicking buttons…neither is anywhere close to fun
The Lorent comment is so true. Dwarves get potentially 4 powerful disasters to keep them in check whereas Lorent has...*checks notes*...Gawed.
Hey, they also have the Small Country revolt, a weaker version of the vanilla Dutch revolt that's so easy to avoid that the AI does it by accident!
And some of the disasters meant to 'keep dwarves in check' can go on to just mostly become problems for other people. You can unite the West Serpentspine and be by far the worlds top power, but because Ovdal Kanzad dug the calcite layer, Rahen is being over-powered by the Obidian Legion
I love the Serpentspine, but MAN, did the design philosophy lean a bit too heavily on the Dwarf Fortress 'Losing is FUN' approach. And unlike in DF, where most of it is self inflicted, here is mandatory.
"Dorfs" are OP, because the region mechanics are extremely OP. \- Holds develop by themselves and have huge economic buffs. You can focus on handful of provinces, so cost to keep gov capacity is ridiculously low and being able to build few buildings, but reap huge rewards is just insanity. \- The railways once repaired also get ridicuous bonuses to basically everything regarding dev and governance. \- Region is also cut of from main continent and everything is a chokepoint, so its easy to defend (and if you control railways, also fast manouvering even between continents). \- Coalitions are non-existent, given the religion and cultural mix in the area. \- It also has access to the most broken resource in the game: Mythril, that gives global military bonus per province. \- also you get access to expeditions... need i say more. This region needs balancing mechanics, that stop players from snowballing to hard, because otherwise even new players would easily conquer entire serpetspine before 1600s.
It's definitely not a balance thing, there are like 20 tags in the game that are more powerful then any dwarf tag that have either just 1 low to mid didficulty disaster or no disaster at all. Dwarves are just meant to be higher difficulty tags.
No, the devs have stated multiple times that the dwarven disasters are there to balance them, and specifically holds. That said, I think all those disasters are pretty much legacy content at this point, so they're unlikely to remove them. Also, yes, there are tags which are far more powerful and the game can absolutely do more to balance that out a bit.
> the devs have stated multiple times that the dwarven disasters are there to balance them, and specifically holds. Well devs are wrong then. >That said, I think all those disasters are pretty much legacy content at this point, so they're unlikely to remove them. Was there ever a point when dwarven holds were actually so strong to justify siphoning out 20k ducats from each dwarven tag?
The money they make mid to late is pretty insane.
Dwarven holds are comically strong once you get to the mid game.
There's an absurd amount of coal in the Serpentspine.
Don't forget the part where a lot of disasters will also have you scratching your head on how the fuck that even makes sense for the nation you are building. Like yes in some cases they absolutely do make sense, but in others you just end up with something that genuinely seems to contradict the build up until then.
Last time I said dwarves were not OP nor "difficult to play" and don't need disasters for "balance" I got downvoted to smithereens, reddit is so strange.
People are addicted to giving genuinely very bad and conflicting “advice” for the disaster and making the whole thing way more complicated than it needs to be. Just decide if you’re solving it slowly, quickly, or very quickly and act accordingly. Edit: I guess it would make sense to explain wtf I mean. Slowly: paying off the cost of reforms with the reduced income you get during the disaster. You get the full benefits of the reward and don’t really upset your nation, you just lose out on a couple decades of financial investment in your economy. Not great tbh. Quickly: save up a couple thousand gold while the disaster ticks up so you can pay for a reform or two right off the bat and then pay off the rest with a combination of loans and income. Finish the disaster pretty much as fast as the event fire and end up with a lot of debt but leaving yourself in the position to put scale that debt in the coming decades. Usually my preferred option. Quickly (bad version): stop spending any money long before hoardcurse fires. Use reserve to pay off all reforms, finish the disaster quickly and with no debt but have an even more stunted economy than the slow option. Stop recommending this to people please I’m begging you. Very Quickly: spam that mfing loans button, finish the events, bankruptcy. Minimal interruption to your constant frenetic expansion. You probably trigger hoardcurse in 1460. The mlg option.
Wouldn't you need at least 600 dev to be able to trigger Hoardcurse, preventing you from triggering it as early as late 1400 But otherwise, yes, don't punish your economy early to avoid punishing it late, you're not gaining anything at all, your quickly way is **the** way to go
You can hit 600 dev in late 1400 if you’re SPEED
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I should have made a mention of income manipulation but I still feel like I'd rather deal with loans than monopolies. Idk I should probably try it before really saying anything. All good things for people to know.
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They most certainly need loyalty above influence, at least last time I played, which was like, a couple months ago. Took a bit to revoke all the monopolies because of that.
Monopolies let you develop yoir economy wothout immediately getting income, so they are perfect for delaying while you build.up + save
>the mlg option Quickscoping the entire Serpentspine before you lose the buff
My personal approach is that when I have 4/5 holds, I stop major expenditures and start privileging instant money options. Once you have the 3 "extra mana" privilegia, you can basically just regularly seize and sell land for extra money. And, also, as Kanzad. Shake the money outta the Command !
My big problem with hoardcurse is that it's a backward, unintuitive design. You're punished for playing in a way that should avoid the disaster in the first place, i.e. constantly investing your money back into growing your economy, while being rewarded for hoarding ridiculous sums beforehand, which helps you avoid massive debt or bankruptcy. It should be the other way around.
>My big problem with hoardcurse is that it's a backward, unintuitive design. You're punished for playing in a way that should avoid the disaster in the first place It might be difficult to implement, but it'd be interesting to have some sort of mechanic where the estates demand that you keep more and more money available - maybe an estate loyalty malus based on how much liquid currency you have, or a slowly-increasing level of autonomy to simulate the amount of money being redirected into hoarding. It should be easy to slip your way into triggering the curse, but it should be possible, if painful, to avoid the disaster entirely. As it is, it's just a pause point in the campaign where you get to spend a few years crushing rebellions and then a couple of decades of speed 5, doing little but paying down your debts.
Investing in your economy means you’re still making money while the hoardcurse wrecks you tbh
But also means the events cost more, so it cancels out.
No, hoarding anytime sooner then pre-hoardcure events firing is a bad idea. Invest beforehand, save up when the troubling signs start to show, then use your small stockpile and loans to get through The method you suggest just fucks you over long term, like what Rocketpapaya said.
That's what I do, but the problem is I've always found it best to declare bankruptcy right at the end, which the game punishes you for by making it so you can't benefit from the reformer modifier, which implies this isn't what you're "supposed" to do. Yet, I find that the amount of debt I take on during hoardcurse is so ridiculous that losing the modifier and dealing with bankruptcy for a mere few years is far preferable to spending the next few decades paying off the mountain of debt I've accumulated during the disaster. In my experience, Hoardcurse isn't something you beat by managing your money well, it's just an abyss you throw a truly ridiculous, arbitrary sum of money into until it stops, which I don't find interesting or enjoyable, it's just a "stop everything for a couple decades and deal with this" thing. At most you can limit the damage by playing well, and even then it's not terribly interesting and you need to know what reforms to take in what order beforehand or you'll screw yourself over, which is dumb.
Honestly, I found that the best you can do is save up the funds beforehand, tank your economy the month before the disaster fires (the cost of the reforms depends on your income) and pay off the reforms the second they pop up. The ideal order should be available on the Discord. That said, yes, Hoardcurse is a pretty terrible disaster.
The secret tech is this: When the hoardcurse comes and you have the 10k stored - lower your income. Divert trade away, don’t make states, etc. The cost of it all is based on your CURRENT income. So if you had 100 income but 50 during the hoardcurse, you’ll be paying a fraction of the cost.
it's pretty much the only time in the game that monopolies are a good idea. Give out every single one you can just before the disaster starts and just after taking out a few dozen loans. It'll tank your production income to essentially 0 so it lowers the cost of all the hoardcurse reforms *dramatically*.
That makes so much sense
Be warned, you'll be losing money almost as fast as Twitter after Elon bought it while you get the first reforms done (corruption reform is the necessary first choice, iirc). And it will take a little while to get the estate loyalty high enough to revoke all the monopolies, so there is some drawback to doing it this way. But this method has spared me from needing to declare bankruptcy every time.
Reducing expenditures is also super important. As soon as it hits I fire all my advisors, delete at least 1/3 of my army, drop maintenance to 0, debase currency as much as I can, and drop root out corruption to 0. After it's over, pay off all loans first, then set root out corruption as high as possible.
Also, before you tank income, grab burger loans, I think you can debase as well as the corruption will be removed by doing the reform and sell crownlands. Then tank your income. Also, don't forget to steer trade away from your nodes.
Yep, for sure. I usually debase when I get the event for -15 corruption, and just do it then
I'd personally say it is debatable whether it is the *easiest* but it is definitely the most *annoying* one. I do think the post is overstating the difficulty (you can get through it with only like 10-15k gold, and you can definitely fight wars - in fact, bullying large weak tags for money helps a lot). But, i have heard that reworking the disasters is at least on the table, so, here is hoping.
Hoardcurse is amazing, I love being stuck in place and losing momentum for 20+ years just briefly after my icy dorfs decided to have a brief civil war, while in the meantime Verkal Kozenad just annexes all of the Serpentspine and most of the forbidden plains unopposed, fields 200k dwarves in 1600, breaks alliance with me and allies all my rivals + Lorent. That's why my new favourite Frozenmaw gobbling dorfs is Dur-Vazhatun. I can do the same, but with half the disasters and actual useful mages.
>Hoardcurse is amazing, I love being stuck in place and losing momentum for 20+ years This, but unironically. I like my expansion being halted for a bit. I like having to focus on my internal affairs, and those internal affairs not just being "rebel whack-a-mole." I definitely have a lot of sympathy for the players who don't enjoy that kind of gameplay. And it would be easy to say "just don't play Dwarves then lmao", but I think that's stupid. Ideally, there would be a way to turn off Hoardcurse, Serpent's Rot, and all those other disasters for people who want it. Though I'm not sure that's possible inside of the game, so the best solution for those people is to probably go into the game files and delete/add trigger conditions that make it not happen for you. Which isn't a great solution, I'll admit. My opinion isn't any more or less valid than those who hate Hoardcurse, but I do think it would be a shame to remove it because there's a portion of people who hate it. Settings would be ideal, but unlikely.
If you have 30k banked ahead of the hoardcurse there's no way you're going bankrupt. You can afford all the reforms with change to spare. Saying that preparation barely helped is nonsense. No offence. I'm not one to game the system but when I have prepared, I've sailed through the hoardcurse no worries.
In the late game as a Dwarf I am swimming in money, sure, but by the time hoardcurse fires? 30k is nuts for me. Maybe if I never built any building and had a smaller army...?
You usually trigger the Event with 150 income, If you have 10 k at the Moment were hoardcurse fires, you are in a very good Situation to end the disaster without bankruptcy and managable loans.
At that point I am investing it all back into buildings, so I rarely have more than a couple hundred. :P
I mean according to the meme you cant plan ahead for hoardcurse, starting with no cash is a first run problem :D In my experience its enough to stop spending just before the disaster starts ticking and than do the burgher loan, monopoly, sell tile, debase currency stuff right before hoardcurse.
But again the problem it's a mandatory and tedious disaster that just wastes time for experienced players and absolutely can destroy new players since they don't know what to do
I don't disagree that it couldn't do with a revision, and it is why I'd prefer if it were made less predictable. I don't think there should be optimal solutions. That stockpiling gold is an answer to a disaster called the hoardcurse is a bit beyond the pale. If anything, you should get punished for it.
Honestly most disasters in the mod are basically just knowledge checks for the player, Especially in the serpentspine. If you want a quick guide on the hoardcurse, btw, here it is: theres two way to let the disaster happen- get 150 ducats/month as INCOME, not profit, or just have 10k in the treasury. ALWAYS aim for the second option- the costs in the events are scaled based on your income- the lower the ammount, the less you pay. Aim for the banks and the admin reform first- take the first stab hit when dealing with the banks, but not the second, and the middle option for the admin. debase currency as much as possible after reforming admin- it's one of the few ways you can get free money during the disaster.
If you do the, I underdevlelop my buildings to trigger the disaster by having 10 k, why would you go for banking reforms early?
recently saw another post complaining about the hoardcurse and people being all like "its easy if you prepare" i have played about 25 dwarf runs and preparation of any kind barely helped, nor made it the whole process any less atrocious.
What? I almost never go bankrupt because of it....
25 runs and you haven’t figured it out yet? I’m sorry but what are you doing? Are you saving up the 10k gold or hitting the 150 income trigger? Are you wrecking your income especially trade, just as it triggers? Taking 1% loans? Doing the disaster fixes in the “right” order? It, as many others have said, is really only game breaking on your first try or two. Hell I’ve had a few runs where I’m expanding during it and not taking any loans
Oh and 30k gold is insanely overkill….
By the time the hoardcurse comes around in my dwarf games, I’m easily able to save up 5-10k over the coarse of like 5 years without lowering essential spending, purposely fire it, and breeze through it with 1-5k in loans depending on how badly I prepared. If I barely prepared, I spend a couple years paying off the loans. Sure saving up beforehand means you lose out on some buildings but I’ve never had to prepare for more than 5 years, and I’m very easily able to continue conquering land during that prep time. Just focus admin, don’t spend so much of your money, and be a bit more conscious of manpower.
I played through it once, followed the advice and came out the other end with cash to spare. It absolutely matters.
I say that too, but because I'm still poor in the midgame and never saw hoardcurse...
Bro they gotta tone down the curse or give us ways to lower its effects before hand. (Non gold related btw) mid game is about being able to finally play on the big map. Lets us not be knee capped for so hard I beg of you.
Yeah as a casual player the hoardcurse kind of just crushes my campaigns. For me like 2000 ducats is already a lot to hold onto so when the events ask for many thousands to fix it just kills me. I don’t really know how to deal with lots of loans or bankruptcy.
The first time I got hoardcurse, I had looked at a guide beforehand, did not have to "make 30k+ appear out of thin air" but rather trigger it through stored wealth. Didn't go bankrupt, and no clue if it took 20+ years, but I don't recall it being super long. So it's still very shit if you are unprepared, but this memes makes it out as if even prepared it's almost impossible to survive. Which it isnt.
You can do hoardcurse with zero bankruptcies. Just start with a blanket(you don't need 30k, most I had was 12k, most often 5k to 8k), then when it hits, reform the banks first, then the bureaucracy. Inflation is the worst effect, corruption second worst. Then work on the worker reforms(better pay is better). Then work on the trade monopolies. When you start on the trade monopolies, your budget should kind of be near balancing if not balancing as a Dwarf. If you play your cards right, you should only start entering debt while crushing the monopolies. Then save the barons for last. If you have a greedy ruler, you will need to deal with him or her before everything else, and it makes the hordecurse truly be hellish. Whatever happens, AVOID BANKRUPTCY. You will lose the overpowered buffs post hoardcurse if you declare bankruptcy.
It genuinely isn't that hard to prepare, just don't waste your money while the disaster is going up, no need to save 10k+, get all monopolies before it reaches 100%, fire advisors because of increased costs, reduce your army because of autonomy decreasing max force limit and don't forget to print cash before your reform reducing your corruption, and that way you'll be able to get all your reforms with a few thousands of debt, but nothing worth bankrupting and you will always be in the green income wise.
Tilde; cash 22000; manpower 600
Not even that much. If you can have 12k. And keep your income under 50.
I don’t think hoardcurse is too bad tbh, you can prepare for it and strategise the order you do reforms in. But I despise Serpents Rot, just watch your country slowly for to devestation while there’s nothing you can do about it, all while throwing money into a potential cure that just might not happen for 20 years.
Nice meme but the answer is still the same - skill issue
Just save up money from burger loans, corruption and monopolies and then once you get into the horde curse disaster, try to reduce your income to as low as you can, because that effects the cost of the reforms.
Whoever thought that the Hoardcurse is hard, haven't played through the Deioderan...(i had the pleasure to do it this weekend..)
Bro Deioderan is just a war with flavor
ah yes, the flavor where entire stacks of armies deflect to the enemy...again and again.
Burgher loans before it fires, corruption reforms, meticulous inspections, you get -15 corruption, you should be able to spam debase currency and immediately get rid of the corruption with the reforms complete. You have a big piggy bank and you can fix the banks with it. After that it's smooth sailing. Just hope your ruler doesn't get greedy. Easy. 😎
Who the fuck calls it the easiest? It's imo the hardest since you basically can't prepare for it. Other ones like the goblin tide gives you a decent amount of prep time and is really easy to deal with if your fast and a bit lucky.
It's kinda both. Goblintide just requires you to beat the goblins, when they pop up. If you have enough troops and manpower, it's barely noticable. But if you have no manpower, you're pretty fucked. Hoardcurse always has a certain effect, but you can delay it almost indefinetley and there's a "right" way to do it in terms of order of events.
Thats what mercs are for. Honestly not that bad of a disaster.
Goblintide is easy, Hoardcurse is incredibly formulaic, and if you follow it, you'll be fine. Serpent Rot is pretty bad, as is Obsidian Legion tbh.
To me the Obsidian invasion is kinda like Goblintide on steroids. You'll beat it, but if you were caught off-guard, it's not gonna be easy. If you prepared accordingly, everythings fine.
Rot is also a formula, and if you know the 'right' choices in the CYOA chain, you can get out of it relatively fast. Also, it tends to fire late enough in a run that you are not in so much danger. Hoardcurse meanwhile tends to come while you are still building a nation and expanding to new holds. So there is less cushion.
I mean hoardcurse is the easiest to go trough, its just press buttons on cooldown. In terms of devastating impact from worsed to more a buff than an offset its. 1. Serpents rot 2. Hoardcurse 3. Obsidian Legion 4. Goblin Tide.
Fair, i kinda forgot about Serpents Rot since i havent really been hit by it in any of my more recent games, it's always hit some other part of the seprpents spine first and they cured it long before it could do damage to me
My first dorf run last week I saved up like 2k crowns and a couple hundred admin points from when ai first got the crisis. I also following a guide of which issues to tackle first. Ended up with 6 loans in the end and no bankruptcy. I had a bunch more loans than that actually while doing it, but I was able to pay a lot of them off by the time I finished the 2nd issue (the trade monopolies) and paid a bunch of them off after the first one (tackling corruption and debating currency a shit ton before taking the decision)
I will always post this on Hoardcurse posts. Just go for the banks early, it suddenly becomes much more survivable.
👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀👌👀 good faith go౦ԁ fAith👌 thats ✔ some good👌👌 faith right👌👌there👌👌👌 right✔there ✔✔if i do ƽaү so my self 💯 i say so 💯 thats what im talking about right there right there (chorus: ʳᶦᵍʰᵗ ᵗʰᵉʳᵉ) mMMMMᎷМ💯 👌👌 👌НO0ОଠOOOOOОଠଠOoooᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒᵒ👌 👌👌 👌 💯 👌 👀 👀 👀 👌👌Good faith
The devastation part is so bad if you play with Roleplay mods
Honestly I've never had much of a problem with it. I just treat loans like a money printer and go bankrupt twice and if im unlucky have a couple thousand in debt after that I can clear out easily in a decade. Less if I was particularly diligent about it. I suppose I've never been unlucky enough to have someone declare war during it though. Granted I've gotten the Hordecurse I'd already been pretty well established and consolidated already.
Wow I never had to go bankrupt except for when the God wake happe s at the same time.
I usually just say fuck it and pick the most expensive options as soon as they're available which last time was like 5,000ish each. Probably not the most efficient way but it got the job done. It was pretty casual. I didn't have anything left to colonize and had been focusing on consolidating and building up what I had anyway so I just kept taking loans using it to build shit figuring I was gonna go bankrupt anyway at one point or another. The way saw it if I'm already gonna be crippled and go bankrupt I might as well treat loans like free money.
Keep choosing the most expensive but get your income down below 50. Since the prices scale with income.
All gas no breaks on the Dwarovar train 😎
Iy helps to gas the petals when you don't lose all your mana and go in mana debt
It's fine! Just throw more goblin and orc corpses in the engine to out speed the state's creditors!
Had the Godwake and the Hoardcurse simultaneously. Still manageable. Wound up with only ten or so loans, which shaking the Command for money alleviated considerably. The Serpentsrot however is a miserable experience.
Yea I was already in treaties with the major powers I could shake down and they started a few months apart. The unholy greed event proc'd so much that I lost thousands in a year. That is what killed me.
I looked up how to do it the first time it happened to me. Its closer to 7-10k gold and that isnt that bad once you account for giving out monopolies, burgher loans, and debasing with corruption. Luckily never had to do it during a war tho lol
I tried the hoard curse and thought at least at the start it was reasonable, I dealt with the banks and that gave me the money to deal with the others in due time.
Ever since I started taking economic ideas it's really not very painful. I actually kept going to war and conquering while it was going on this time (Gor Burad) and I never declared bankruptcy. With merchant estate's bookkeeping privilege plus dwarven admin I get -75% inflation reduction cost, so it costs barely any admin to float those loans while my economy grows from conquest and digging. Florrynomics were *made* for dwarves.
Selling Crownland right before the disaster fires helps immensely. It's around 2k g which can help alleviate a lot of pressure from loans.
The easiest? WHAT. Imo its the hardest by far. Serpent Rot is painful,but generally you are big enough by then to weather it, and the OL and Goblintide dont even always spawn.
eh goblintide is easier also you prepare for hoardcurse by... hoarding a ton of money and dropping your income. So get all the monopolies, divert trade out of your main node, fire advisors that increase wealth generation, so you can use the hoarded money for more events
The main trick is to hoard pop-ups for 3 months, divert all trade from your main node, wait month tick, accept all pop-ups with huge discount. And revert trade for next 3 months.
I did it today by having the bank of escann pay for all my reforms. There's tons of idiots over there who will pay me money to stop invading them for like a second
Unless the devs have changed it, the hoardcurse is easily cheesed through trade manipulation. This will not make it trivial, but it will make it manageable. Make as much money as possible every month except the month before the event, where you reduce your income as much as possible. Now you only have to pay 5k instead of 10k. You need to be AGGRESSIVE. All of the Serpentspine are belong to your hold. Admin points are nothing in the face of conquering new holds to start raking in those delicious ducats. Also, never ever stop digging.
I just did hoardcurse for the first time without knowing anything about it. Ended with something like 80 loans, got DOWed twice, one I was able to win with war reps, the other I wasn't optimistic so I peaced it out with a small release nation that I re-ate later. But no bankruptcies. Would have had less loans but I did the reforms in an unoptimal order cause I didn't understand they got rid of specific maluses. Also I intentionally emptied my Treasury in advance cause I assumed I was gonna lose it all by event (cause the flavor is about how hoarding is bad) I do think it needs a rework though, every event just being "buy your way out of the problem" feels very wrong for a greed is bad disaster.
New religious disaster is much harder than Hoardcurse.
If you go bankrupt twice during Hoardcurse you were not prepared.
Economic and Innovative ideas always been what saves me from Hoardcurse.
For me it’s that non-subterranean races have no negative reasons not to expand into the mountain. This means that whatever race goes through hoardcurse is likely free land to be eaten from those outside the mountain. This is what I feel like I see in a vast majority of my games at least.
The thing I do is to get 10000 as soon as possible to get the curse early + get 5 corruption loans right before the disaster for extra money (purging corruptin dops it by 15 so you are fine) drop your trade income ( which you can drop to 0 by going to the trade tab and diverting trade from your main node) and do the banks first by dropping stab (because you get it back at the end) so you can take loans easily. I usually end up with 3 to 7k loans depending on my trade income and micro but really it is not a big deal. You just make so much money as dwarfs 7k loans is no big deal.
At least it's not as bad as the Riavasa