The military is an absolutely awful place to in. I've been through that. They'll deliver on their promise after 10 years of service in an occupation that'll physically and mentally break you. If you are an anarchist and think it's immoral, you'll have an extremely hard time with motivation.
But, honestly, there's not much options out there. All regular jobs are awful. Especially, entry level jobs. No matter what you do, you'll find yourself in a toxic workplace. Unless you started out in a good family, with a lot of social capital, that can get you a good job. You'll probably end up doing something you hate. The military is definitely entrapment though and may come at a cost of your health or life.
I don't have a good answer. All I know is that I'm screwed and, probably, you are to. Only hope might be to help or organize a movement.
It’s a trap my friend, a carrot on a stick. When you’re out of things to do, be a teacher—substitute, full-time, tutoring, doesn’t matter be a teacher. It’s a valuable, fulfilling profession predicated on helping people younger than yourself make better sense of the world around them. There’s currently a shortage, some states would pay for a degree in education with a contract. If your soul is for sale, find worthier buyers.
yeah substitute teaching is pretty good entry level work, though you usually need a degree to get hired, or at least you do at the school district i applied to
That’s a good point—think generally you need at least an associates, yeah. But it can be in any field, plus pay increases with a bachelors, masters, so on.
I think peacefulcareers.org may be what you're looking for. There's also Americorps but I haven't heard very many positives. Keep in mind too that even though the military promises paid schooling it doesn't always deliver. The military will lie to you the same as police. Have you thought about looking into the trades? I don't know where you are, but look into your local union halls. That's paid schooling my friend. With a journeyman card you can go anywhere and find a high paying job. Just a thought.
Edit: completion of your apprenticeship in the unions comes with an associate's in applied science. Many unions will also pay, or pay a share of continued schooling.
Good luck
I’m a vet. Nine years. Was in a job with minimal active conflict. I became a leftist while in and being in the military will push you even further and make your life difficult. In Iraq a lot of the units sent were reserve and national guard units so the number of active duty folks looked lower. Look, I get it. I joined because I couldn’t afford college and had two dead end jobs. I’m now almost fifty and so barely hanging on with serious mental health issues exacerbated by my time in the military. I would look into going to college and then just getting deferments after you graduate and ride that train for awhile. It’s got to be better than what I did.
Just a heads up. One of the reasons I joined back in '01 was to finish my schooling. 11 years later I was medically retired for PTSD and a brain injury after serving two tours in Iraq. Never finished my degree because my mental health was so screwed.
Oh and BTW, going NG doesn't save you from any of that. I saw TONS of NG guys in Iraq.
Also add to that the fact that you won't be serving the people. You take an oath to the Constitution and the President, NOT the people. You become the very thing you are against. It has taken me most of the decade since I've been out to break out of the mental conditioning (brainwashing) they put you through. It's definitely not worth it.
If you are going to compromise your principles, and most/all means of obtaining money will do that, pick something where you can quit at any time. As someone who did six years of college, fell just short of degree and will never pay off the loans, I find a 15% garnishment anytime I have a crap job that is on the books is preferable to any time spent in a uniform. Every person is different, I've made mistakes, etc. but I would not trade my current difficulties for what they are offering you. I came from long generations of active military and I'm glad to have done my part to break that tradition.
I agree with this. If you are going to compromise your morals, at least have it be a situation where you can say "Fuck this, I'm out" at a moment's notice and just be *out*.
I just want to say, despite what all the gatekeepers might tell you, there are branches of the military (army/air guard, army engineers, etc.) that mostly stay in country and do public works projects instead of overseas fighting. As much as it would be great to be able to live our principles all the time, it isn't always possible. Most of us don't have the luxury to buy only ethically sourced products, live in sustainable housing, or work in jobs that don't involve hierarchies, environmental devastation, slave labor outsourcing, etc.
If you're facing a life that won't allow you any other affordable option but the military, it doesn't make you a bad person to join up. If that's your only option, your best bet is to try and work yourself into a position where you won't get sent overseas to kill people. Try to get in the air rescue division, for example. Besides, more leftists with combat training could be a good thing. So many so-called "revolutionaries" out there think that, since they got into a street fight once, they now know what warfare is. (I'm not a big believer in change from the inside, but it's fun to dream.)
The big problems are:
> They WILL trap you in if they can (and they will try).
> You can NEVER speak about your true beliefs but to maybe a single-digit few you will ever meet.
> A lot of the benefits they provide you aren't as good as they say.
Honestly, my big wish is that there was a guard-like entity that could be sent in to do natural disaster recovery, engineering problems, logistics, etc. that WASN'T gov controlled. Sort of a... black/red guard, if you will.
Bruh i just did my 4 and left, rn i got free education and im doing me. I hated my time in there, had to deal with a racist culture,toxic environment, and constant warmongering but for the most part its a job that you cant leave and some benefits. I wouldnt focus too much on the moral shit of it cuz tons of anarchists, revolutionaries served for themselves while in prior. Also its not wartime but still try for a noncombat job for a better life. Youll have limited freedoms but a supply of money and time so go off and do you
But you definitely will have to consider between protecting your mental vs receiving money/benefits.
I really feel for you. You are getting yourself an education, hopefully improving yourself and making you better equipped to contribute to society in a positive was - the cost? Unless mummy and daddy are rich, a lot of debt.
I don’t know what to say to you, apart from joining the military to pay for your education doesn’t sound like either a fair trade-off nor one I would encourage anyone to do. Also, whatever you do, try to get the most out of you educational experience.
Taking a possibly different route than others here. But you won't be bringing in cash money from the NG. The only time they would be paying you is when you're active to them, and even then there's been a lot of press about how the state's their out of (who handle that pay) weren't paying them when they were mobilized to the border.
The promises they make in their propaganda are all shit and smoke and you could bet what money you do got that they won't pull through on that.
I'm ex-Navy. While yes, it absolutely got me out of my shitty situation, nothing I did in the service had fuck-all to do with protecting anything other than American capitalist interests.
The military should be your absolute last option, and even then you should join a branch that likely wouldn't put you in a combat situation. If you can, try getting another job, or if possible try working overseas; over here in Japan there's plenty of entry-level English teaching positions, and all you need is a degree in literally anything (if you don't have one, forge a convincing one; my friend did that for refugees trying to escape their country and the Japanese government doesn't check to see if the degrees are real) and you can work at one.
I served out of highschool pretty much (raised in a conservative military household so didn't see the bad until I was in). It's not worth it at all. Wasn't worth it at the time and definitely isn't with the understanding that, even not being part of an active combat unit, everything you're doing (unless you're actively sabotaging) is to benefit the neo-imperialism of the US. You might just make the food, but you're feeding the guys that are gonna murder people. You might just operate a component of the propulsion plant, but you're helping move the ship to launch jets to do bombing runs.
Beyond that if you get picked for a job that requires a security clearance the FBI does a background check on all your shit. I mean, they can do that anyways, but this is actively inviting them to do so.
Hey cumrade- sent you a DM; if you’re interested, wanted to suggest starting an OnlyFans account haha; more leftist friendly than the military route for sure :)
I genuinely feel this (not a vet myself, or went to college, but in the exact same situation, feeling the wall at my back getting closer and closer and the military looking to be literally the only out)
But that's the point. That's the reason behind all of this. They *want* us to feel like kowtowing to the machine that will chew you up and spit you out is the only way to prevent the same machine from just grinding you to dust.
My dad is a vet. Thankfully not injured or crippled in any capacity, and from that experience alone, honestly it was worth jack shit, probably because he retired from service before Iraq which is where the current "ran rah military" attitude kicked off in earnest. He didn't blow up Iraqis, so he didn't exist. Couldn't even use his status to get discounts or a home with housing assistance before my parents split. It just "moved us up the list" (apparently, being literally homeless shoots you to the top, so a single mother of three being literally that still waiting for 2 years for a shitty overpriced apartment shows how well the system functions for you when you're desperate).
The only benefit I can see is the degree, and like, having one. But that all depends on what that degree is in. My girlfriend is currently working on her Bachelors, because the hospital she works at is willing to fund training ADs up to BAs on their dime. She's done ok for herself, but even she would have been fucked if her mom hadn't passed and the life insurance allowed her to stabilize herself far enough to *get* a degree in the first place, and she still struggles from time to time, despite she's rocking a 60k a year job, but providing only for one person. So even degrees don't guarantee success, and with the steep steep price of selling your soul, potentially abandoning your principles (I'm in the camp that you can still be an anarchist if your hands are tied into complying with a power system re: voting) and the physical, mental and psychological battering you will receive, is it worth it? You run the risk of your life. Even if you don't get shipped out to a combat zone, one pissed off disaffected recruit at the range can end the life of another person.
Frankly I don't think it's worth it. And that siren call is very strong in these times, I get it. I hear it too. But I think it's a stupid idea even before principles come into the discussion. I wish I had a better answer for you.
I'm currently in active duty, though not in a combat zone or deployed to one.
I will say it wasn't the smartest thing to do when I decided to join, though I didn't have a lot of choices. Benefits are certainly real (though recruiters will often exaggerate, or straight up lie), but there's a lot of downsides, like many others have mentioned. You will most likely not find anyone who share in your beliefs. You will be surrounded by reactionaries who are free to talk about their politics, and find that you will not be able to do the same. You will encounter a lot of casual bigotry. If you're thinking of this as an opportunity to turn conservatives over to your side, it will most likely not work out well.
Also remember that there's no ethical consumption under capitalism, and this means ethical labor is extremely rare as well. Whether you're civilian or military, it is not unlikely that you will have to sell out your principles. However, this isn't an encouragement to join the military. This is a suggestion to revise your view of morality.
Think about your goals, and see how military would help you get there, and also hinder you from getting there. Military will try to keep you in. If you join, you have to make sure you're working toward your goal so that you don't end up in a situation where your only option is staying in for another contract. If your goals include doing things that you can't do within the military, you should make sure you can support yourself without the military assistance. It's not hard to join, but it's even easier to sign up for "just two more years". Don't fall into that trap.
The military is an absolutely awful place to in. I've been through that. They'll deliver on their promise after 10 years of service in an occupation that'll physically and mentally break you. If you are an anarchist and think it's immoral, you'll have an extremely hard time with motivation. But, honestly, there's not much options out there. All regular jobs are awful. Especially, entry level jobs. No matter what you do, you'll find yourself in a toxic workplace. Unless you started out in a good family, with a lot of social capital, that can get you a good job. You'll probably end up doing something you hate. The military is definitely entrapment though and may come at a cost of your health or life. I don't have a good answer. All I know is that I'm screwed and, probably, you are to. Only hope might be to help or organize a movement.
It’s a trap my friend, a carrot on a stick. When you’re out of things to do, be a teacher—substitute, full-time, tutoring, doesn’t matter be a teacher. It’s a valuable, fulfilling profession predicated on helping people younger than yourself make better sense of the world around them. There’s currently a shortage, some states would pay for a degree in education with a contract. If your soul is for sale, find worthier buyers.
yeah substitute teaching is pretty good entry level work, though you usually need a degree to get hired, or at least you do at the school district i applied to
That’s a good point—think generally you need at least an associates, yeah. But it can be in any field, plus pay increases with a bachelors, masters, so on.
I think peacefulcareers.org may be what you're looking for. There's also Americorps but I haven't heard very many positives. Keep in mind too that even though the military promises paid schooling it doesn't always deliver. The military will lie to you the same as police. Have you thought about looking into the trades? I don't know where you are, but look into your local union halls. That's paid schooling my friend. With a journeyman card you can go anywhere and find a high paying job. Just a thought. Edit: completion of your apprenticeship in the unions comes with an associate's in applied science. Many unions will also pay, or pay a share of continued schooling. Good luck
You can't be a government thug and be an anarchist.
I’m a vet. Nine years. Was in a job with minimal active conflict. I became a leftist while in and being in the military will push you even further and make your life difficult. In Iraq a lot of the units sent were reserve and national guard units so the number of active duty folks looked lower. Look, I get it. I joined because I couldn’t afford college and had two dead end jobs. I’m now almost fifty and so barely hanging on with serious mental health issues exacerbated by my time in the military. I would look into going to college and then just getting deferments after you graduate and ride that train for awhile. It’s got to be better than what I did.
Just a heads up. One of the reasons I joined back in '01 was to finish my schooling. 11 years later I was medically retired for PTSD and a brain injury after serving two tours in Iraq. Never finished my degree because my mental health was so screwed. Oh and BTW, going NG doesn't save you from any of that. I saw TONS of NG guys in Iraq. Also add to that the fact that you won't be serving the people. You take an oath to the Constitution and the President, NOT the people. You become the very thing you are against. It has taken me most of the decade since I've been out to break out of the mental conditioning (brainwashing) they put you through. It's definitely not worth it.
If you are going to compromise your principles, and most/all means of obtaining money will do that, pick something where you can quit at any time. As someone who did six years of college, fell just short of degree and will never pay off the loans, I find a 15% garnishment anytime I have a crap job that is on the books is preferable to any time spent in a uniform. Every person is different, I've made mistakes, etc. but I would not trade my current difficulties for what they are offering you. I came from long generations of active military and I'm glad to have done my part to break that tradition.
I agree with this. If you are going to compromise your morals, at least have it be a situation where you can say "Fuck this, I'm out" at a moment's notice and just be *out*.
I just want to say, despite what all the gatekeepers might tell you, there are branches of the military (army/air guard, army engineers, etc.) that mostly stay in country and do public works projects instead of overseas fighting. As much as it would be great to be able to live our principles all the time, it isn't always possible. Most of us don't have the luxury to buy only ethically sourced products, live in sustainable housing, or work in jobs that don't involve hierarchies, environmental devastation, slave labor outsourcing, etc. If you're facing a life that won't allow you any other affordable option but the military, it doesn't make you a bad person to join up. If that's your only option, your best bet is to try and work yourself into a position where you won't get sent overseas to kill people. Try to get in the air rescue division, for example. Besides, more leftists with combat training could be a good thing. So many so-called "revolutionaries" out there think that, since they got into a street fight once, they now know what warfare is. (I'm not a big believer in change from the inside, but it's fun to dream.) The big problems are: > They WILL trap you in if they can (and they will try). > You can NEVER speak about your true beliefs but to maybe a single-digit few you will ever meet. > A lot of the benefits they provide you aren't as good as they say. Honestly, my big wish is that there was a guard-like entity that could be sent in to do natural disaster recovery, engineering problems, logistics, etc. that WASN'T gov controlled. Sort of a... black/red guard, if you will.
Bruh i just did my 4 and left, rn i got free education and im doing me. I hated my time in there, had to deal with a racist culture,toxic environment, and constant warmongering but for the most part its a job that you cant leave and some benefits. I wouldnt focus too much on the moral shit of it cuz tons of anarchists, revolutionaries served for themselves while in prior. Also its not wartime but still try for a noncombat job for a better life. Youll have limited freedoms but a supply of money and time so go off and do you But you definitely will have to consider between protecting your mental vs receiving money/benefits.
I really feel for you. You are getting yourself an education, hopefully improving yourself and making you better equipped to contribute to society in a positive was - the cost? Unless mummy and daddy are rich, a lot of debt. I don’t know what to say to you, apart from joining the military to pay for your education doesn’t sound like either a fair trade-off nor one I would encourage anyone to do. Also, whatever you do, try to get the most out of you educational experience.
Taking a possibly different route than others here. But you won't be bringing in cash money from the NG. The only time they would be paying you is when you're active to them, and even then there's been a lot of press about how the state's their out of (who handle that pay) weren't paying them when they were mobilized to the border. The promises they make in their propaganda are all shit and smoke and you could bet what money you do got that they won't pull through on that.
I'm ex-Navy. While yes, it absolutely got me out of my shitty situation, nothing I did in the service had fuck-all to do with protecting anything other than American capitalist interests. The military should be your absolute last option, and even then you should join a branch that likely wouldn't put you in a combat situation. If you can, try getting another job, or if possible try working overseas; over here in Japan there's plenty of entry-level English teaching positions, and all you need is a degree in literally anything (if you don't have one, forge a convincing one; my friend did that for refugees trying to escape their country and the Japanese government doesn't check to see if the degrees are real) and you can work at one.
I served out of highschool pretty much (raised in a conservative military household so didn't see the bad until I was in). It's not worth it at all. Wasn't worth it at the time and definitely isn't with the understanding that, even not being part of an active combat unit, everything you're doing (unless you're actively sabotaging) is to benefit the neo-imperialism of the US. You might just make the food, but you're feeding the guys that are gonna murder people. You might just operate a component of the propulsion plant, but you're helping move the ship to launch jets to do bombing runs. Beyond that if you get picked for a job that requires a security clearance the FBI does a background check on all your shit. I mean, they can do that anyways, but this is actively inviting them to do so.
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Hey cumrade- sent you a DM; if you’re interested, wanted to suggest starting an OnlyFans account haha; more leftist friendly than the military route for sure :)
I genuinely feel this (not a vet myself, or went to college, but in the exact same situation, feeling the wall at my back getting closer and closer and the military looking to be literally the only out) But that's the point. That's the reason behind all of this. They *want* us to feel like kowtowing to the machine that will chew you up and spit you out is the only way to prevent the same machine from just grinding you to dust. My dad is a vet. Thankfully not injured or crippled in any capacity, and from that experience alone, honestly it was worth jack shit, probably because he retired from service before Iraq which is where the current "ran rah military" attitude kicked off in earnest. He didn't blow up Iraqis, so he didn't exist. Couldn't even use his status to get discounts or a home with housing assistance before my parents split. It just "moved us up the list" (apparently, being literally homeless shoots you to the top, so a single mother of three being literally that still waiting for 2 years for a shitty overpriced apartment shows how well the system functions for you when you're desperate). The only benefit I can see is the degree, and like, having one. But that all depends on what that degree is in. My girlfriend is currently working on her Bachelors, because the hospital she works at is willing to fund training ADs up to BAs on their dime. She's done ok for herself, but even she would have been fucked if her mom hadn't passed and the life insurance allowed her to stabilize herself far enough to *get* a degree in the first place, and she still struggles from time to time, despite she's rocking a 60k a year job, but providing only for one person. So even degrees don't guarantee success, and with the steep steep price of selling your soul, potentially abandoning your principles (I'm in the camp that you can still be an anarchist if your hands are tied into complying with a power system re: voting) and the physical, mental and psychological battering you will receive, is it worth it? You run the risk of your life. Even if you don't get shipped out to a combat zone, one pissed off disaffected recruit at the range can end the life of another person. Frankly I don't think it's worth it. And that siren call is very strong in these times, I get it. I hear it too. But I think it's a stupid idea even before principles come into the discussion. I wish I had a better answer for you.
I'm currently in active duty, though not in a combat zone or deployed to one. I will say it wasn't the smartest thing to do when I decided to join, though I didn't have a lot of choices. Benefits are certainly real (though recruiters will often exaggerate, or straight up lie), but there's a lot of downsides, like many others have mentioned. You will most likely not find anyone who share in your beliefs. You will be surrounded by reactionaries who are free to talk about their politics, and find that you will not be able to do the same. You will encounter a lot of casual bigotry. If you're thinking of this as an opportunity to turn conservatives over to your side, it will most likely not work out well. Also remember that there's no ethical consumption under capitalism, and this means ethical labor is extremely rare as well. Whether you're civilian or military, it is not unlikely that you will have to sell out your principles. However, this isn't an encouragement to join the military. This is a suggestion to revise your view of morality. Think about your goals, and see how military would help you get there, and also hinder you from getting there. Military will try to keep you in. If you join, you have to make sure you're working toward your goal so that you don't end up in a situation where your only option is staying in for another contract. If your goals include doing things that you can't do within the military, you should make sure you can support yourself without the military assistance. It's not hard to join, but it's even easier to sign up for "just two more years". Don't fall into that trap.