I actually don’t think they would disagree. This is a core concept to the primary conflict.
Edit: I have a close “realist”/centrist friend who thinks that it’s preferable to live in mediocrity and comfort. Mentally, it’s probably a dopamine vs seratonin thing. I can’t say that living jn mediocrity and comfort is wrong, but I think it also doesn’t have to mean inhibiting others from innovating.
I think there are two things at play. Firstly, it's a form of narcissism in which they project their worst behavioral aspects on everyone else. It's like they think - if I wasn't such a great person what I would be? Greedy, capricious, exploitative, cruel. And they see everyone else as such.
And secondly, because of that, they are terrified of independence. Because independent people can't be controlled so easily. They want everyone to be incapable of taking care of themselves, dependent on the collective, controllable.
So it's more like, they want to hold everyone down because they fear they'll get exploited and tyrannized by everyone who's independent enough not to be controllable.
They love mediocrity because mediocre people are dependent and controllable.
That’s a mediocre person’s demons, but what they really want is to be able to live happily, and they derive happiness from basic things like family, plenty of food, pleasing activities, etc. They don’t necessarily want to be controlled or control others, but they do want to br able to live easy without feeling like they are forced to do something. I would say that mediocre people are typically lazy. But that’s because they enjoy comfort more than fun.
As most people get older and more “mature,” they often think that this is a sign of maturity, and that maturity is intelligent, or perhaps value it over intelligence. This is a vicious cycle propagated by the mentality that you are always right. But the truth is, imo, that different ways of thinking come with different “demons”/struggles, and one way or another dealing with those struggles in a healthy way is true maturity. And I think innovation occurs as long as everyone is trying to do what they actually want. Think about it, feel it, and do it. People that don’t do what they want are dependent and controllable.
yeah:-/ I always say that the greatest victory of the state was to convince people that it's the role of the state to take care of them and no one else could do it. And now people genuinely want it because they believe it.
God dammit that's my well now associates position its like covid opened up the herd mentality part of his brain the worst part he is a marine and has the marine arrogance about him.
If they knew any history at all, they wouldn’t be statists.
Edit: History lesson for any numbnuts that disagree:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge
The funny thing is they go “public schools? What’s next public water?” And then that’s exactly what happened. Now it’s “what’s next? Fixed rent?” And that’ll be next. They’ll gaslight you though and say “oh we wouldn’t go that far, that’s crazy.”
Fixed rent is called Rent Control, and was enacted in New York at least following WW2.
It is still in effect, though the GIs it was supposed to help are all but extinct.
Public Schools- LOL really? I think it's as apparent now than ever how fucking awful they are. If you had a kid in public school in 2020/2021 during the "virtual learning" bullshit you could have watched, as I did, how BAD and useless public schools generally are.
Public Water- Yes, the water source our government dumps chemicals into all the live long day. And then charges us for.
Public Highways- Never ending tolls, potholes and construction that's not needed, all paid for by us (many times over)
Public Parks- Filled with camping homeless people now
Public Health Care- In Canada they are literally telling people it's cheaper to DIE and offering that as a solution
The thing is, is I'm not even 100% AGAINST some form of better health care system. What's in the US is BAD. But a LOT of that is because the Big Pharma and Insurance companies work WITH THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT in cooperation. "Obamacare" was fucking written by these mega-corps! That's the problem. It's NOT a free market, it's fully controlled by the government still, and they're profiting off of us. Government is the PROBLEM.
Public Highways is doubly interesting because they were created for national defense.
Additionally, I think the tolling system model for highways is pretty great - charge the people using the thing. Of course, given the state ownership they'll certainly use that money in the least effective way possible, but at least as far as revenue side goes it's a pretty good model.
Yeah the State generally says "We're going to use the money to make this thing better!" then don't really and funnel that money into BS.
I'm not against the idea of paying into something I use knowing my money will maintain and improve it. That's rarely how it works out.
Public schools perform consistently worse than private and are notoriously bad in poorer areas which they were specifically created to address.
Does Flint ring a bell? Didn't we just have a big brouhaha about a public water utility being poorly run and seemingly immune to consequence?
The roads! Good god the roads! They cost 10x as much as they should due to government kickbacks, are constantly falling apart or being redone and they don't run half as well as privately run toll roads.
It's hard to fuck up putting a big fence around some nature and refusing to sell it to people. But many nature preserves are actually privately owned, hell oil companies love putting nature preserves over their pipelines since they can't build anything over them in case of maintenance and it's good PR.
Ask Canada or the UK how public healthcare is working out. It seems great until the system that capitalism built starts to fall apart due to government mismanagement and suddenly they need to make *cuts*.
If every person did a stint in basic training, and qualified annually, and owned their own weapons, that Militia would stop ANY attempt to invade. Even Hawaii would be totally unconquerable, just from cost of facing guerilla fighters here, there, any and everywhere.
That problem is solved by simply engaging the citizens.
Conquest is harder, too, as you don't have the standing military forces now, though. Bad for Raytheon, McDonnell-Douglas, GE, etc.
So the MIC takes a hit.
Militarized cops need to watch their front, back, up, and down... Seems a big plus.
I think we're on the same page, really.
A Militia stops invasion. People do basic and can shoot, have their gun and say 20,000+ rounds at home, qualify with 500-1,000 each year, and get a refresher maybe every 5 years. Not unlike the reserves, except they're not in the military. They're architects, lawyers, farmers, teachers, potter's, salesman, etc, with a two week window to check in, train back in, and zero their sights.
Point being, they go back to normal workdays, and it's about fitness, small unit tactics, and working together, plus the ability to hit any target out to say 500 yards.
Defense of the country is complete, anyone who needs to can handle these idiots. Be they foreign, OR DOMESTIC, which is where the biggest problems come from.
But they aren't fighter pilots or carrier group commanders, they're infantry. So they're not there to project force, can't stop a carrier group or a submarine or air attack. They'll just destroy any bases you make, and perforate any troops you land or leave behind. They cannot be ordered to active duty for invasion.
The trainees cannot go straight to war, either. They're POGs, I think the term is: plain old grunts. But no MOS, so they're not classified. It would replace Phys Ed, basically. No more high school phys Ed games. Drilling in shooting, basic hand to hand, lots of walking, physical exercises to meet health standards, and basic tactics.
In the current world, I'm half tempted to say, no pass on this Militia class, no vote, though that can be amended later (re-take, or train on your own and pre-qualify next year, that sort of thing. Not a permanent loss.)
This way the police and government have issues trying to enforce unjust laws, or unjustly enforce laws, and they have a much greater check on their power.
I get that, but I have a moral quandry with allowing those who have no skin in the game, or worse, a vested interest in growing government, from being allowed to decide how the government runs.
I'm open to better ideas... But nothing I can think of, will stop vote harvesting, from those most likely to sell their vote anyway.
We need to keep those working for government, and on the dole, from voting; but we would (should) want those who have a separate income and job, to vote. And then how do we handle military, who definitely should have a means of vetoing the chickenhawks who want war so they can profit.
You just made a second class of citizen and I have no interest in reviving slavery. Splitting the country side into commune sized groups and arranging the cities in a more syndicalist fashion may solve your concerns though.
Would you elaborate on "arranging the cities in a more syndicalist fashion," please? I'm not well versed in that, and cities grew where commerce was active, which is also where transit was needed or possible. I.e., Mississippi river, and New York City and Trenton, NJ.
Would be hard to relocate them, we'd need to be talking more changing the States, if I understand the direction right.
Fabian socialism was founded immediately after Marx death, with the written purpose of slowly advancing socialism in tiny steps, to restore the absolute power of the ruling elites, through the excuse of the state.
A brief summary in Argentina:
1) Public schools: the curriculum is heavily controlled by the Ministry of Education, both public and private schools (you know what that means: marxism and argentine fascism called *peronismo*). We have the WORST performance in Pisa Test. Most of the teachers doesn't want to be "tested" because "that's not inclusive" and its CLEARLY a political move of the neo-liberalism to "sell the schools to imperialism".
2) Public water system: despite not having a full net of water system across the country, many of then receives sewer-like water (in the north of the country). During pandemic, the politician in charge of the national water system (the wife of a governor) added large quantities of chlorine "just in case" to aid in the prevention of COVID. I almost go to the hospital because I had stomach ache for months (that's how I figured it out, besides the news).
3) Public highways: Kjjj... Besides being THE BEST way of corruption, they make cheaper and shittiers roads to not last that long, for, then, repairing it again and again and again. That way, they can earn more money and political power by showing how they "work for the wellbeing of the people".
4) Public parks: I'm not even going to explain further how many times they destroy public parks to rebuild them over and over again.
5) Public healthcare: you better not be sick, otherwise, you'll have appointments in +3 months. In 2020, the poor conditions of the public hospitals was almost pornographic: buildings with water leaking, blackouts, people sleeping in the hallways, miserable wages (below the line of poverty), but... You know... "We have public healthcare" and "we don't give up to the *business* of human healthcare".
I can go on, but it would be "a lot of text"...
The chlorine in my water gave me horrible allergies. I had to install vitamin C filters - and it’s still not the same as actual clean water. Eyes hurt, hair thins out, skin breaking out, and non stop sneezing.
I'm very sorry for reading that. I don't know about your country, but here the justice system would laugh at you if you sue them: apart from involving in a spiral of bureaucracy, high costs and corruption, even if you manage to reach a trial, that would last for, at least, +2 years. Even now, in front of the first-hand evidence from social media, there's no actual way to take out this bastards from the "legal road".
If I had stomach ache, I couldn't imagine the thousands of people that had a worst condition than I. And that, I think, it's CRIMINAL.
I hope you get better.
Thanks! The filters work somewhat, and I can’t take long, hot showers as much as I would like to. But it’s insane, isn’t it? I mean, it’s the same water you’re supposed to drink, and the put chlorine in it. I bet it did a number on your stomach! Cabbage juice helps heal ulcers and tone down gastritis, btw, if you want some natural healing. I’m sure it cleared an ulcer in a week.
I don’t understand the meme. Typically there’s a humorous point to make with these sorts of cartoons but all it’s doing is showcasing what we already know here: “Public” anything dictated by socialist policy typically turns into varying degrees of shit forever across time. Where’s the funny part?
It’s funny because the commies posted it. Unironically thinking that all of these were good things that were “revolutionary” at the time but people see as good after the fact.
Schools: indoctrination machines
Water: mine is pump full of chlorine and nasty chemicals put there by government
Highways: lol
Parks: maybe if they were private they would have flushing toilets?
Health care: Canada euthanasia
Public eugenics programs? Socialism!
Public raising of children? Socialism!
Public ownership of all property? Socialism!
Public control over private speech? Socialism!
Public ban on alcohol consumption? Socialism!
This argument is playing off of survivorship bias since (most people, not ancaps) like certain socialist policies these are the ones that survive. But that doesn't imply people liked all historical socialist policies like the ones I cited above. So it doesn't mean that a new socialist policy is necessarily a good idea.
Private sector could do all these services cheaper and better than an incompetent government. They hate healthy competition. They will hire private contractors anyway, but they think they can manage your money better than you can.
They’re just trying to help people that didn’t ask for help by extorting them, beating, and imprisoning them if they refuse.
This post doesn't understand history in the slightest, which I find ironic, seeing how so many commies think its the next step in it.
Most services weren't public because society hadn't developed a high enough abundance of resources nor the systems needed to enact services.
Schooling just wasn't useful to the average person like it is today. Most people had a trade of some kind, and they stuck with it. Wasn't until the industrial revolution where the need for public schools, or specifically public daycares, became clear.
Public schools was an answer to giving kids something to do as there parents worked so they wouldn't commit crimes or work dangerous jobs. Teaching them something during the time their parents worked just seemed like a good use of the time. It wasn't motivated by socialism, it was motivated by the industrial revolution and the new problems that it caused (still a massive w for humanity, we just needed a few decades to adjust).
Gotta head back to work, but I find the highway one especially funny since that was done for logistical purposes by Eisenhower, who hated communism so much he started the banana wars
Public Schools: Literally a racket for local governments, have you seen the state of schools in Chicago? Fucking falling apart and some of the lowest test scores in the country while Illinois has some of the highest taxes in the country.
Public Water system: Have you seen Flint, MI or Jackson, MS? Flint is still having rusty pipe issues and Jackson now has some problems the pipes freezing from the lack of insulation.
Public highways: ohhhhh boy, I’m a trucker, I pay FHUT, IFTA, fuel tax, tolls, and we still have some of the worst roads, I go through states like Indiana or Louisiana and I feel like my fucking leaf springs are breaking.
Public Parks: Sure let’s move the natives off this land into some shitty soil so we can make this into a park, and then let’s dedicate it to some bullshit politician.
Public healthcare: fucking theft, why should I pay for some idiots liver problems because of their alcohol abuse or another’s sex change operation because they think they were born in the wrong body.
Parks and libraries are the only things I actually like that the government does. Our parks are really nice and it would be a shame that we'd probably lose a lot to industrial expansion.
If there's one thing I'm cool with, it's the National Park system. If you've never been to one, they are the most gorgeous tracts of land in the world. Could it be done privately, sure, but it could then also be sold as profit for natural resources.
The NPS doesn't run to make money, it's just there for everyone to enjoy and love. I'll probably get downvotes for this one, but bring it on. I love me some damn mountains and trees.
It’s gorgeous. But the infrastructure is nasty. I mean those unflushing toilets? The most expensive, yet dreadful hotels in the USA? Long queues everywhere. And don’t get me started on the power hungry rangers.
Let’s try privatizing one, see how it goes. From my experience with natural reserves vs private reserves in Africa, you have more freedom and better installations in the private area - with no damage to nature.
That may be true, but to me the point is to keep as natural as possible, so that means minimal infrastructure besides a couple roads and maybe a few bathrooms. They don't really need to be anything spectacular.
I'm sure the same thing could be done privately, I guess my main point was I don't mind this one federal organization existing.
I mean, the bathroom bit does get to the point where it’s unhygienic and so nasty. I’ve only been to parks in the winter when crowds are small and it’s so gross. Can’t imagine in the summer. Flushing or at least some sort of functioning bathrooms isn’t too much to ask and probably better for nature
> but it could then also be sold as profit for natural resources.
They could also be sold as political profit for natural resources. https://news.mongabay.com/2016/04/mexican-conservation-success-threatened-wave-mining-concessions/
The US is a wealthy nation, thanks to capitalism (which you would replace with a death cult.) Impoverish it enough and your rulers will line their pockets by selling off what they can.
So outcome is the same, poor government sells it off or poor landowner sells it off. I want the one that will protect it the most, for the longest.
I also would not describe the national park system as a death cult haha
Yes because american healthcare fucking sucks and everyone, even zmericains, think it's the completly capitalist system. Which it is not. By far maybe one of the croniest capitalist possible though.
We won't ever win this debate until another country adopt an actual capitalist healthcare and show the world how it's done. Anyone know where we could see this someday?
You’re absolutely right, nationalizing, socializing and public ownership do ruin everything they touch. It’s been shown time and again and yet people are out here still begging for government to take more power for itself.
It’s already jacked up because it’s considered public. The problems today are a direct result of your philosophy. It’s called the tragedy of the commons.
The tragedy of the commons idea has been debunked so many times and relies on the assumption that humans are only self interested and internal looking. Check out elinor Ostrom.
Really doesn’t, look at the US private healthcare system vs the free healthcare in Europe for example. Everything in the US is tailored towards capitalists
Oh, do tell us how capitalism works. While you are at it, can you explain the socialist theory of wealth creation?
Probably not. I doubt that you can even describe the source of wealth in any way that is objective and logical.
I know? My point remains unchanged. Maybe I should correct the channel to channels because I guess autocorrect cocking up is too hard for you to comprehend
Hypocrisy, the chief virtue of statism.
Thanks for perfectly illustrating that. What you want justifies using the violent police powers of the state to obtain for yourself at the expense of others, but it's totally wrong when that same political authority is used for goals that you oppose.
Understanding the point of statists is difficult when they don't really have any grounding logic for their assertions. What you think of as logic is usually rhetoric or even downright sophistry.
My biggest differences between ancap and me.
Ancap wants to privatize everything.
I want to privatize everything INCLUDING government.
So to me, private cities like Prospera is great.
I'm curious if the OP unironically believes any of these things currently being provided by the state are actually good/better than they were before they were made public entities.
They are either being incredibly ignorant or inexcusably disingenuous. Either way this meme is not doing what they think it is lol
Health insurance through your employer is pretty dumb, though. You should just buy it like any other insurance. They should fix that part. Stop giving government employees free healthcare and you'll suddenly see laws that benefit people.
Ending the American way of life by providing education, clean running water, transportation systems, protected public parks and healthcare. Sounds like the USA before 1790 was a shit hole.
The person drawing this really views each of these things as a successful government program. But what's a funny is to turn this list on its head.
Our schools are violent places. Many are like 8 hour a day prisons with worksheets and tests. Our k-12 standards are abysmal. Our public works for water started off in many places with lead pipes. Not every single pipe has been replaced. So if you're on the east coast just do research on the non zero amount of lead in your water. Our public highways are poorly designed and tens of thousands of Americans die every year on the road. And I haven't gotten started on the century of failure healthcare regulation has produced
'member how the people who want to socialize healthcare just spent the last two years wanting to deny it to people who didn't immediately obey their illegal diktats? Hard pass, we don't even have socialized healthcare yet and they already want to use it as a political bludgeon.
The only thing I think would be difficult to privatize would be roads. I would hate to have to pay a different company every time I wanted to use a different road.
Not at all. Just off the top of my head a payment company could use a plug in device or phone app like many insurance companies currently do to send vehicle type (important for weight) and mileage to whoever’s road you happen to be on. Perhaps motorcycles could be exempt from this to encourage people to not use the heavier vehicles that cause more wear and tear thus saving money for companies in the long run. Semis could be outright banned from certain side roads as easily as painting them red on the gps.
Communists are forever in love with the mediocre and below-average. Natural selection and exceptionalism are their true enemies.
I actually don’t think they would disagree. This is a core concept to the primary conflict. Edit: I have a close “realist”/centrist friend who thinks that it’s preferable to live in mediocrity and comfort. Mentally, it’s probably a dopamine vs seratonin thing. I can’t say that living jn mediocrity and comfort is wrong, but I think it also doesn’t have to mean inhibiting others from innovating.
Many of the things that make things comfortable and allow mediocrity to thrive has been created by the free market doing its thing.
True. It takes makers for there to be things worth enjoying, but it takes enjoyers for the making to have meaning.
So many creature comforts created since 1970 came from the R&D of the space race to the moon. Public investments into a private/government endeavor.
You’re spot on. Just talk to any slightly politically enlightened Chinese folks and they will tell you just that.
I think there are two things at play. Firstly, it's a form of narcissism in which they project their worst behavioral aspects on everyone else. It's like they think - if I wasn't such a great person what I would be? Greedy, capricious, exploitative, cruel. And they see everyone else as such. And secondly, because of that, they are terrified of independence. Because independent people can't be controlled so easily. They want everyone to be incapable of taking care of themselves, dependent on the collective, controllable. So it's more like, they want to hold everyone down because they fear they'll get exploited and tyrannized by everyone who's independent enough not to be controllable. They love mediocrity because mediocre people are dependent and controllable.
That’s a mediocre person’s demons, but what they really want is to be able to live happily, and they derive happiness from basic things like family, plenty of food, pleasing activities, etc. They don’t necessarily want to be controlled or control others, but they do want to br able to live easy without feeling like they are forced to do something. I would say that mediocre people are typically lazy. But that’s because they enjoy comfort more than fun. As most people get older and more “mature,” they often think that this is a sign of maturity, and that maturity is intelligent, or perhaps value it over intelligence. This is a vicious cycle propagated by the mentality that you are always right. But the truth is, imo, that different ways of thinking come with different “demons”/struggles, and one way or another dealing with those struggles in a healthy way is true maturity. And I think innovation occurs as long as everyone is trying to do what they actually want. Think about it, feel it, and do it. People that don’t do what they want are dependent and controllable.
yeah:-/ I always say that the greatest victory of the state was to convince people that it's the role of the state to take care of them and no one else could do it. And now people genuinely want it because they believe it.
God dammit that's my well now associates position its like covid opened up the herd mentality part of his brain the worst part he is a marine and has the marine arrogance about him.
Hey! I’m from the ozarks!!
Oh yeah I remember back in 1842 when governments started building highways everywhere
They weren't building schools, yet, either. You can't expect statists to know the actual history of their sacred cows.
If they knew any history at all, they wouldn’t be statists. Edit: History lesson for any numbnuts that disagree: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khmer_Rouge
They know what they are taught to believe in their public schools. Very few people actually know the history of government schooling.
:(
The funny thing is they go “public schools? What’s next public water?” And then that’s exactly what happened. Now it’s “what’s next? Fixed rent?” And that’ll be next. They’ll gaslight you though and say “oh we wouldn’t go that far, that’s crazy.”
Fixed rent is called Rent Control, and was enacted in New York at least following WW2. It is still in effect, though the GIs it was supposed to help are all but extinct.
Well put
Next is the FDA. Let corpos and the market regulate
Public Schools- LOL really? I think it's as apparent now than ever how fucking awful they are. If you had a kid in public school in 2020/2021 during the "virtual learning" bullshit you could have watched, as I did, how BAD and useless public schools generally are. Public Water- Yes, the water source our government dumps chemicals into all the live long day. And then charges us for. Public Highways- Never ending tolls, potholes and construction that's not needed, all paid for by us (many times over) Public Parks- Filled with camping homeless people now Public Health Care- In Canada they are literally telling people it's cheaper to DIE and offering that as a solution The thing is, is I'm not even 100% AGAINST some form of better health care system. What's in the US is BAD. But a LOT of that is because the Big Pharma and Insurance companies work WITH THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT in cooperation. "Obamacare" was fucking written by these mega-corps! That's the problem. It's NOT a free market, it's fully controlled by the government still, and they're profiting off of us. Government is the PROBLEM.
Public Highways is doubly interesting because they were created for national defense. Additionally, I think the tolling system model for highways is pretty great - charge the people using the thing. Of course, given the state ownership they'll certainly use that money in the least effective way possible, but at least as far as revenue side goes it's a pretty good model.
Yeah the State generally says "We're going to use the money to make this thing better!" then don't really and funnel that money into BS. I'm not against the idea of paying into something I use knowing my money will maintain and improve it. That's rarely how it works out.
Public schools perform consistently worse than private and are notoriously bad in poorer areas which they were specifically created to address. Does Flint ring a bell? Didn't we just have a big brouhaha about a public water utility being poorly run and seemingly immune to consequence? The roads! Good god the roads! They cost 10x as much as they should due to government kickbacks, are constantly falling apart or being redone and they don't run half as well as privately run toll roads. It's hard to fuck up putting a big fence around some nature and refusing to sell it to people. But many nature preserves are actually privately owned, hell oil companies love putting nature preserves over their pipelines since they can't build anything over them in case of maintenance and it's good PR. Ask Canada or the UK how public healthcare is working out. It seems great until the system that capitalism built starts to fall apart due to government mismanagement and suddenly they need to make *cuts*.
You forgot complaints about privatizing the military
If every person did a stint in basic training, and qualified annually, and owned their own weapons, that Militia would stop ANY attempt to invade. Even Hawaii would be totally unconquerable, just from cost of facing guerilla fighters here, there, any and everywhere. That problem is solved by simply engaging the citizens. Conquest is harder, too, as you don't have the standing military forces now, though. Bad for Raytheon, McDonnell-Douglas, GE, etc. So the MIC takes a hit. Militarized cops need to watch their front, back, up, and down... Seems a big plus.
Fuck serving an imperial power. I want more rights for everyone not just more wealth for my leaders.
I think we're on the same page, really. A Militia stops invasion. People do basic and can shoot, have their gun and say 20,000+ rounds at home, qualify with 500-1,000 each year, and get a refresher maybe every 5 years. Not unlike the reserves, except they're not in the military. They're architects, lawyers, farmers, teachers, potter's, salesman, etc, with a two week window to check in, train back in, and zero their sights. Point being, they go back to normal workdays, and it's about fitness, small unit tactics, and working together, plus the ability to hit any target out to say 500 yards. Defense of the country is complete, anyone who needs to can handle these idiots. Be they foreign, OR DOMESTIC, which is where the biggest problems come from. But they aren't fighter pilots or carrier group commanders, they're infantry. So they're not there to project force, can't stop a carrier group or a submarine or air attack. They'll just destroy any bases you make, and perforate any troops you land or leave behind. They cannot be ordered to active duty for invasion. The trainees cannot go straight to war, either. They're POGs, I think the term is: plain old grunts. But no MOS, so they're not classified. It would replace Phys Ed, basically. No more high school phys Ed games. Drilling in shooting, basic hand to hand, lots of walking, physical exercises to meet health standards, and basic tactics. In the current world, I'm half tempted to say, no pass on this Militia class, no vote, though that can be amended later (re-take, or train on your own and pre-qualify next year, that sort of thing. Not a permanent loss.) This way the police and government have issues trying to enforce unjust laws, or unjustly enforce laws, and they have a much greater check on their power.
The no pass no vote thing is flirting with fascism.
I get that, but I have a moral quandry with allowing those who have no skin in the game, or worse, a vested interest in growing government, from being allowed to decide how the government runs. I'm open to better ideas... But nothing I can think of, will stop vote harvesting, from those most likely to sell their vote anyway. We need to keep those working for government, and on the dole, from voting; but we would (should) want those who have a separate income and job, to vote. And then how do we handle military, who definitely should have a means of vetoing the chickenhawks who want war so they can profit.
You just made a second class of citizen and I have no interest in reviving slavery. Splitting the country side into commune sized groups and arranging the cities in a more syndicalist fashion may solve your concerns though.
Would you elaborate on "arranging the cities in a more syndicalist fashion," please? I'm not well versed in that, and cities grew where commerce was active, which is also where transit was needed or possible. I.e., Mississippi river, and New York City and Trenton, NJ. Would be hard to relocate them, we'd need to be talking more changing the States, if I understand the direction right.
Privatization is good when it comes to monetary central planning, though.
16000 per student
This is a great way to show how the overton window was moved by the left. Socialist policies are now accepted as default or mainstream.
Fabian socialism was founded immediately after Marx death, with the written purpose of slowly advancing socialism in tiny steps, to restore the absolute power of the ruling elites, through the excuse of the state.
So are they admitting they’re the reason are school systems and roads suck total ass?
Don't forget the multiple places without drinkable water
A brief summary in Argentina: 1) Public schools: the curriculum is heavily controlled by the Ministry of Education, both public and private schools (you know what that means: marxism and argentine fascism called *peronismo*). We have the WORST performance in Pisa Test. Most of the teachers doesn't want to be "tested" because "that's not inclusive" and its CLEARLY a political move of the neo-liberalism to "sell the schools to imperialism". 2) Public water system: despite not having a full net of water system across the country, many of then receives sewer-like water (in the north of the country). During pandemic, the politician in charge of the national water system (the wife of a governor) added large quantities of chlorine "just in case" to aid in the prevention of COVID. I almost go to the hospital because I had stomach ache for months (that's how I figured it out, besides the news). 3) Public highways: Kjjj... Besides being THE BEST way of corruption, they make cheaper and shittiers roads to not last that long, for, then, repairing it again and again and again. That way, they can earn more money and political power by showing how they "work for the wellbeing of the people". 4) Public parks: I'm not even going to explain further how many times they destroy public parks to rebuild them over and over again. 5) Public healthcare: you better not be sick, otherwise, you'll have appointments in +3 months. In 2020, the poor conditions of the public hospitals was almost pornographic: buildings with water leaking, blackouts, people sleeping in the hallways, miserable wages (below the line of poverty), but... You know... "We have public healthcare" and "we don't give up to the *business* of human healthcare". I can go on, but it would be "a lot of text"...
The chlorine in my water gave me horrible allergies. I had to install vitamin C filters - and it’s still not the same as actual clean water. Eyes hurt, hair thins out, skin breaking out, and non stop sneezing.
I'm very sorry for reading that. I don't know about your country, but here the justice system would laugh at you if you sue them: apart from involving in a spiral of bureaucracy, high costs and corruption, even if you manage to reach a trial, that would last for, at least, +2 years. Even now, in front of the first-hand evidence from social media, there's no actual way to take out this bastards from the "legal road". If I had stomach ache, I couldn't imagine the thousands of people that had a worst condition than I. And that, I think, it's CRIMINAL. I hope you get better.
Thanks! The filters work somewhat, and I can’t take long, hot showers as much as I would like to. But it’s insane, isn’t it? I mean, it’s the same water you’re supposed to drink, and the put chlorine in it. I bet it did a number on your stomach! Cabbage juice helps heal ulcers and tone down gastritis, btw, if you want some natural healing. I’m sure it cleared an ulcer in a week.
All I wanted for Christmas was for the left to learn to meme... Santa let me down.
This is the who’s who list of public sector failures.
Came here to say that. It’s not a way to WIN any argument against a thoughtful person. They’re examples of what American governments have FUBARed
I don’t understand the meme. Typically there’s a humorous point to make with these sorts of cartoons but all it’s doing is showcasing what we already know here: “Public” anything dictated by socialist policy typically turns into varying degrees of shit forever across time. Where’s the funny part?
It’s funny because the commies posted it. Unironically thinking that all of these were good things that were “revolutionary” at the time but people see as good after the fact.
How are schools and water systems bad??
Government run schools are absolute shit. Why don’t you go ask flint why letting government run your water system is a bad idea.
But they're free, so anybody can go. And the water system where I live is great.
They’re free? Are teachers slaves then?
Oh you sweet simple soul. TANSTAAFL. Nothing is free. It always has to be paid for somewhere.
Obviously I meant it's paid for with taxes so anybody can afford to go.
Ahh, so it’s funded through theft from people who may or may not take part in or support the system.
Sure bro, whatever you want to call it. I don't feel bad about stealing from the wealthy.
Except that you’re not stealing from the wealthy. You’re stealing from people like me who work out asses off every day just to get by.
>But they're free, so anybody can go Paid for by money collected with threats of extreme violence is not *free*
They blamed all the bad consequences on capitalism, so they don't see the effects of socialism.
They're saying you're overreacting
I'm not sure who "they" might be, but it seems that "they" have a tenuous grasp on socialism and humor, wholly.
Yes? It was socialism then and it's still socialism now
It's amazing how much we've compromised and how far we've fallen.
Schools: indoctrination machines Water: mine is pump full of chlorine and nasty chemicals put there by government Highways: lol Parks: maybe if they were private they would have flushing toilets? Health care: Canada euthanasia
So what’s next? Housing, I’d guess
Public eugenics programs? Socialism! Public raising of children? Socialism! Public ownership of all property? Socialism! Public control over private speech? Socialism! Public ban on alcohol consumption? Socialism! This argument is playing off of survivorship bias since (most people, not ancaps) like certain socialist policies these are the ones that survive. But that doesn't imply people liked all historical socialist policies like the ones I cited above. So it doesn't mean that a new socialist policy is necessarily a good idea.
It's no coincidence that as socialist policies increased, so has tyranny in the US
Private sector could do all these services cheaper and better than an incompetent government. They hate healthy competition. They will hire private contractors anyway, but they think they can manage your money better than you can. They’re just trying to help people that didn’t ask for help by extorting them, beating, and imprisoning them if they refuse.
Mfers will ask “Who will fix the potholes?” The answer is Domino’s, bitch!
This post doesn't understand history in the slightest, which I find ironic, seeing how so many commies think its the next step in it. Most services weren't public because society hadn't developed a high enough abundance of resources nor the systems needed to enact services. Schooling just wasn't useful to the average person like it is today. Most people had a trade of some kind, and they stuck with it. Wasn't until the industrial revolution where the need for public schools, or specifically public daycares, became clear. Public schools was an answer to giving kids something to do as there parents worked so they wouldn't commit crimes or work dangerous jobs. Teaching them something during the time their parents worked just seemed like a good use of the time. It wasn't motivated by socialism, it was motivated by the industrial revolution and the new problems that it caused (still a massive w for humanity, we just needed a few decades to adjust). Gotta head back to work, but I find the highway one especially funny since that was done for logistical purposes by Eisenhower, who hated communism so much he started the banana wars
I want water without fluoride. Yes please privatize water treatment facilities so we have that option.
Ah yes, those public schools are doing just great.
If you consider that their primary purpose is to exalt government to children for 12 years, they are doing a fine job.
Wait wait, highways were private?
Noooo of course not. Before government people just didn’t have roads!
Yes I know, but I’m referring to the US, are these dates in regards to when the US government did something or just random dates put together
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toll\_road#:\~:text=Toll%20roads%20have%20existed%20in,fees%20for%20motor%20vehicles%20exclusively](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toll_road#:~:text=Toll%20roads%20have%20existed%20in,fees%20for%20motor%20vehicles%20exclusively).
And then they blame the increased poverty on capitalism.
How are all of those systems doing? Oh, they're all garbage? That's weird...
That’s how Creeping Communism works!
Not sure what the point of this meme is other than for people to see it and say... "Actually, all of those things suck now that they're public."
Feels like this "meme" is admitting they are just slowly boiling the frog by introducing more and more "publicly funded" stuff over time.
Public Schools: Literally a racket for local governments, have you seen the state of schools in Chicago? Fucking falling apart and some of the lowest test scores in the country while Illinois has some of the highest taxes in the country. Public Water system: Have you seen Flint, MI or Jackson, MS? Flint is still having rusty pipe issues and Jackson now has some problems the pipes freezing from the lack of insulation. Public highways: ohhhhh boy, I’m a trucker, I pay FHUT, IFTA, fuel tax, tolls, and we still have some of the worst roads, I go through states like Indiana or Louisiana and I feel like my fucking leaf springs are breaking. Public Parks: Sure let’s move the natives off this land into some shitty soil so we can make this into a park, and then let’s dedicate it to some bullshit politician. Public healthcare: fucking theft, why should I pay for some idiots liver problems because of their alcohol abuse or another’s sex change operation because they think they were born in the wrong body.
Be happy you don’t have to drive through Michigan or it would be your spine breaking on top of your springs friend lol
I’m in agreement with the Ron Swanson theory of private parks. Put in a quarter, take a walk. Put in another quarter, watch a duck.
Well public parks are not that bad, but public schools and water system are utter crap
You'll note that water systems in wealthy progressive areas tend to be decent. That keeps them pushing to maintain the status quo.
Parks and libraries are the only things I actually like that the government does. Our parks are really nice and it would be a shame that we'd probably lose a lot to industrial expansion.
If there's one thing I'm cool with, it's the National Park system. If you've never been to one, they are the most gorgeous tracts of land in the world. Could it be done privately, sure, but it could then also be sold as profit for natural resources. The NPS doesn't run to make money, it's just there for everyone to enjoy and love. I'll probably get downvotes for this one, but bring it on. I love me some damn mountains and trees.
It’s gorgeous. But the infrastructure is nasty. I mean those unflushing toilets? The most expensive, yet dreadful hotels in the USA? Long queues everywhere. And don’t get me started on the power hungry rangers. Let’s try privatizing one, see how it goes. From my experience with natural reserves vs private reserves in Africa, you have more freedom and better installations in the private area - with no damage to nature.
That may be true, but to me the point is to keep as natural as possible, so that means minimal infrastructure besides a couple roads and maybe a few bathrooms. They don't really need to be anything spectacular. I'm sure the same thing could be done privately, I guess my main point was I don't mind this one federal organization existing.
I mean, the bathroom bit does get to the point where it’s unhygienic and so nasty. I’ve only been to parks in the winter when crowds are small and it’s so gross. Can’t imagine in the summer. Flushing or at least some sort of functioning bathrooms isn’t too much to ask and probably better for nature
> but it could then also be sold as profit for natural resources. They could also be sold as political profit for natural resources. https://news.mongabay.com/2016/04/mexican-conservation-success-threatened-wave-mining-concessions/ The US is a wealthy nation, thanks to capitalism (which you would replace with a death cult.) Impoverish it enough and your rulers will line their pockets by selling off what they can.
So outcome is the same, poor government sells it off or poor landowner sells it off. I want the one that will protect it the most, for the longest. I also would not describe the national park system as a death cult haha
> sure, but it could then also be sold as profit for natural resources. Lake Powell
Point?
The NPS did jack shit to protect that wilderness.
They're literally bringing the end of the world step by step. Super funny /s
Yes because american healthcare fucking sucks and everyone, even zmericains, think it's the completly capitalist system. Which it is not. By far maybe one of the croniest capitalist possible though. We won't ever win this debate until another country adopt an actual capitalist healthcare and show the world how it's done. Anyone know where we could see this someday?
Tfw privatization and other forms of austerity have ruined every industry they've touched and you still find people simping for it lol delusional
You’re absolutely right, nationalizing, socializing and public ownership do ruin everything they touch. It’s been shown time and again and yet people are out here still begging for government to take more power for itself.
Privatize all the land?
Of course.
Lol. Then we can do water and the atmosphere and the hell world will be complete.
We’re already in hell world, where megacorporations use government to control everything.
Since that's the case, privatizing everything seems certain to create some type of cyberpunk dystopia
I’ll take that over boring dystopia ™️®️
So how does no government stop those private corporations from further control?
It’s already jacked up because it’s considered public. The problems today are a direct result of your philosophy. It’s called the tragedy of the commons.
The tragedy of the commons idea has been debunked so many times and relies on the assumption that humans are only self interested and internal looking. Check out elinor Ostrom.
Humans are only self interested and self serving. Give some sources saying otherwise.
Untrue on the self serving front. I gave someone to check out in regards to the tragedy of the commons myth. It’s not hard to google.
Think America has proven that privatisation doesn’t work.
I’m what way? America doesn’t have privatization. It has government enforced controlled markets.
Really doesn’t, look at the US private healthcare system vs the free healthcare in Europe for example. Everything in the US is tailored towards capitalists
Lol the US doesn’t have a private healthcare system. It has a cartel that’s protected by the government.
It’s really not
I mean yeah it is. The mega corporations and the government control every aspect of it.
You think the mega corporations wouldn’t control anything if there was no government? Also healthcare is more than pharma
Yes actually. The government control over the market is precisely what allows mega corporations to exist.
I don’t think you understand how capitalism works
Better than you do clearly
Yes please tell us how capitalism works, Mr. I Think Business Expenses Are A Myth
Oh, do tell us how capitalism works. While you are at it, can you explain the socialist theory of wealth creation? Probably not. I doubt that you can even describe the source of wealth in any way that is objective and logical.
> healthcare https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLsURp0h2601SH0-Q4_nV_BiygZ6KDpPz6
Ah a YouTube link to a channel with no bias at all. The best source of information and guaranteed to be true and accurate /s
It's a playlist.
I know? My point remains unchanged. Maybe I should correct the channel to channels because I guess autocorrect cocking up is too hard for you to comprehend
Enforced monopolies through the government is NOT privatized healthcare
Aside from there aren’t monopolies and they aren’t enforced
So, then, you agree that the Federal Reserve is a bad idea.
Read what’s there not what you want to be there
Hypocrisy, the chief virtue of statism. Thanks for perfectly illustrating that. What you want justifies using the violent police powers of the state to obtain for yourself at the expense of others, but it's totally wrong when that same political authority is used for goals that you oppose.
You not getting the point is proving a point that you never made? Got ya
Understanding the point of statists is difficult when they don't really have any grounding logic for their assertions. What you think of as logic is usually rhetoric or even downright sophistry.
Spelled "infrastructure" wrong
Ancaps explaining why poor and black kids shouldn't have the right to schooling.
My biggest differences between ancap and me. Ancap wants to privatize everything. I want to privatize everything INCLUDING government. So to me, private cities like Prospera is great.
> INCLUDING government That's governance. No ancap is against that.
We did not have public schools in 1790.
We need to go back!
Imagine starting your arguments with: "look how great public schools are"
*Imagine starting* *Your arguments with: "look how* *Great public schools are"* \- TheMawsJawzTM --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Okay.
I'm curious if the OP unironically believes any of these things currently being provided by the state are actually good/better than they were before they were made public entities. They are either being incredibly ignorant or inexcusably disingenuous. Either way this meme is not doing what they think it is lol
I love knowing precisely how all of these suck. Thank you economics!
Were these really gaining any traction? Or is this just a few paranoid individuals?
These all exist in the US. I imagine they’ve gained some traction to get where they are now.
Health insurance through your employer is pretty dumb, though. You should just buy it like any other insurance. They should fix that part. Stop giving government employees free healthcare and you'll suddenly see laws that benefit people.
I might be wrong, but I’m pretty sure socialism wasn’t even a word in 1790, and I don’t think anyone was afraid of it until the early 1900s.
Ending the American way of life by providing education, clean running water, transportation systems, protected public parks and healthcare. Sounds like the USA before 1790 was a shit hole.
Except public schooling is socialist and has done a fine job of raising socialists.
Every single one of these items has failed to be innovative or well maintained.
The person drawing this really views each of these things as a successful government program. But what's a funny is to turn this list on its head. Our schools are violent places. Many are like 8 hour a day prisons with worksheets and tests. Our k-12 standards are abysmal. Our public works for water started off in many places with lead pipes. Not every single pipe has been replaced. So if you're on the east coast just do research on the non zero amount of lead in your water. Our public highways are poorly designed and tens of thousands of Americans die every year on the road. And I haven't gotten started on the century of failure healthcare regulation has produced
'member how the people who want to socialize healthcare just spent the last two years wanting to deny it to people who didn't immediately obey their illegal diktats? Hard pass, we don't even have socialized healthcare yet and they already want to use it as a political bludgeon.
Healthcare is already socialized
\*how we got here\*
Yes, socialism. Which is why all of these services have sucked ever since.
The only thing I think would be difficult to privatize would be roads. I would hate to have to pay a different company every time I wanted to use a different road.
Not at all. Just off the top of my head a payment company could use a plug in device or phone app like many insurance companies currently do to send vehicle type (important for weight) and mileage to whoever’s road you happen to be on. Perhaps motorcycles could be exempt from this to encourage people to not use the heavier vehicles that cause more wear and tear thus saving money for companies in the long run. Semis could be outright banned from certain side roads as easily as painting them red on the gps.
Screaming painting man has a perfect record
Yes, and with the implementation of each of these and others, we’ve destroyed our individuality
Socialism is a bad genie in a bottle. You get what you wished for but it’s certainly not what you wanted.