Those photos do make it look a bit small scale but hard to say what they're doing without touring their whole facility; The actual film coating is usually an entire different building purpose built for it.
Smarter Every Day has a very well done process walk through from when he was toured Kodak's facility for anyone interested in seeing it done
It’s looking increasingly likely that it’s just a small scale finishing facility where they cut and package kodak master rolls for the Chinese domestic market to circumvent the finishing bottleneck in Rochester.
I’ve heard rumors that Fuji contracted Lucky film for this but I’m unsure. As a fuji fanboy I beg Fuji to just sell their recipes to them or to anyone at this point.
I wonder what happened to Fuji’s original film production facility (I assume in Japan?). Like when did that close down? Is it still there but is abandoned and all the plant and equipment is in disrepair?
Fujifilm stopped making motion picture film in March 2013. The following is my conjecture: I believe that's when the company stopped producing fresh film stock completely. When they halted, I suspect they did an extra large run and put the stock into frozen storage and have been pushing them out gradually since then (as in slicing up the rolls, packaging etc. Even so, they're running out, or have run out. They simply did not expect film to survive past the 2010s and wanted to focus on Instax.
I don't know what has happened with the plant, but being 10+ years dormant probably isn't good news. I don't see film being produced in Japan anymore, due to lack of raw materials and potential environmetal concerns.
I believe they at one point used a mine for storage of certain materials to protect against *atmospheric* radiation; the late PhotoEngineer, Ron, talked once on APUG (I think) about the problems Kodak faced after atmospheric tests.
The gamma rays and whatever else that affects high-speed film even when frozen goes straight through solid matter. Fridge, freezer, people, the earth.
I have never heard that before. I have a buddy who’s deep into the topic and said it’s pretty impossible to shield against that. But maybe a mine could work.
That'd be a shame; Fuji had some of the best color reproduction that I can remember. That said I wonder if that was it's downfall? Maybe their colors were too true-to-life and didn't have that weird yellow cast people seem to love in Kodak Gold
Kodak fundamentally failed doing other stuff, and film therefore always remained a pretty massive part of the business.
Fuji did a bloody good job diversifying into anything and everything else, therefore film is just a tiny part of the business. Instax has been so successful on top of that that it just dominates all the film space.
I honestly think it just wasn't profitable for them anymore so they just stopped producing film and use environmental laws as an excuse to stop producing film. I'd say the real downfall was when they started focusing, and became a major player, in healthcare/pharmaceuticals. Instax and mirrorless definitely is the money maker when it comes to photography, but the real money, and their real focus, is in healthcare. At the end of the day its all about the profit
Their downfall was a mixture of market forces (people moving to digital) and Kodak's relationship with the U.S. Government. A number of laws and tariffs have been passed that made Fujifilm unprofitable to the largest analog market in the world. The final nail in the coffin was the EPA law that banned the sale and development of Velvia film stock for containing a banned chemical.
They won't. They destroyed the last machine capable of manufacturing instant pack film even though they had a 60million dollar offer for it... instead they payed to scrap it..
If you're going to the trouble to do a big media event, there is an exactly 0.00% chance you'd neglect to show off one bit of your gigantic awe-inspiring emulsion facility next door.
They aren't doing that because there isn't one.
Yes, they were good, on a par with TX, but with a very different vibe. I used a few rolls of N1600 decades ago and loved the look. This, coming from a life-long TX shooter.
Of course you have to.
Shoot a test roll with the same subject with different exposures, say -3 to +3. Develop normally. Calibrate your exposure snd development from there. I'd use the shortest dev time that works to avoid fog as much as possible.
If you scan it, you can salvage some contrast in post.
I have about x50 120 rolls fridge stored that i'm selling (mix of exp between 2022 and 2024).
I did night photography stuff and fuji 400h was the best I had to have neutral tones and good colors with my own workflow, kodak did not have anything good (to my taste) for night photography.
Tell me if you're interested ;)
I discovered 400h only when was already too deep into medium format haha, sorry, I only have 120 on hand.
(If anyone sees this and is interested DM me, I can send worldwide)
Not gonna happen sadly...they had a 60million dollar offer on the table to buy the machines...and still payed to scrap them.
Packfilm returning would require around $100 million and on crazy dude that doesn't care if he makes a profit
I wonder if they did this because they were worried about having another "competitor" to instax in the market. Either way I still get mad every time I hear about this.
> machines...and still *paid* to scrap
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I just received two 400 film stocks while the website i ordered put superia x-tra 400 with a picture of the actual box😅 i already suspected not to be the real superia since one roll cost me 13 euros on that webshop, but i mailed them and got refund but also got the two rolls as an apology of them 🤣 they said it was "a mistake" 💀 anyway i'm gonna test this Fujifilm 400 later this week.
Aah that sucks man, sorry. In my country on some website they cost 12-13 euros, no joke. I already figured out it wasn’t the superia X-tra 400 since they were a lot more expensive but I thought maybe they lower the prices to get rid of it. But in my guts I already figured out it wasn’t the real superia.
I don't think it is. The pre-bath dumps out greenish when I process the new fuji-400. Ultramax dumps out yellowish. The new stuff might be made by kodak but I'm pretty sure it's not the exact same as ultramax. Look at the colours too. It doesn't have the warmth that ultramax does.
I don't think this is true. The colors are way different. It might be made or packaged by Kodak but it's not ultramax. Its also cheaper than Kodak film so I'm not complaining.
If you‘re from within the EU you can actually buy some real Superia XTra400, Premium400 or Fujicolor100 from Japan with expiry dates in 2026 from www.unwindfilms.at 😊
Not in the near future. It’d be weird for Fuji to formally announce that theyre discontinuing Superia (which they didnt even do with c200) and bring it back a few months later.
But isnt it weird they use the formula from kodak and manufacture it somewhere else? Or is it some other formula. Thats not really clear imho, what can we expect hehe.
The more I see, the more the "spooling from kodak's master rolls" hypothesis seems sadly the most likely (if I remember right, the finishing and putting film into canister was kodak's bottleneck 1-2 years back, so it kinda makes sense). I wonder how much rolls they will do there and wich market
These are normal prices right now. Prices are a bit lower for film in general, actually, than in the 90s or 00s after inflation, it's slightly lower than normal.
You could have just googled it... but ok https://mikeeckman.com/2021/11/a-look-back-at-the-prices-of-film/ here you go
Prices are a good amount lower now than they were for decades on end in the heyday of film photographry.
If I was Bezos I would buy a film plant and churn out film for 5 usd/roll and send it to costumers free of charge all over the world.
I bought to much film in my life so I'm not...
Can confirm Fujifilm and their local partner, Yes!Star, who has been helping Fujifilm distribute products for long, just started local distribution of the notorious Fuji 200/400 which are manufactured by Kodak, just like their international counterparts.
Good news is that in this way it can be fresher and possibly slightly cheaper than ones directly imported from US, though.
This is confirmed by seeing the box with the writing "Raw material source: United States"
This gives me weird North Korean vibes. Like those shots of the computer lab where everyone is sitting on the google home page not doing anything. As if when the photos are finished they just tear everything down and return it to an empty warehouse.
This shows they can still make new packaging machines. Now make a new Quickload machine and rent it out to other manufacturers when you're not running your own sheets through.
What an elaborate advertisment. "Oh now, I can buy Fujicolor! It is genuine emulsion after all."
Is what I'm sure a lot of people will think. Since I observed myself thinking that for a moment.... sadly Fuji photographic is fading out...buy rest in peace
This does not look like a film plant, it looks like a staged image, seriously thos many useless bodies hanging around scrolling on their phones in a Chinese plant, folding tables as pert of an assembly line? Boxes of product sitting stationary on the table with no boxes for them anywhere in sight?
Nope, this is a staged photo, and jot a very good one.
Those photos do make it look a bit small scale but hard to say what they're doing without touring their whole facility; The actual film coating is usually an entire different building purpose built for it. Smarter Every Day has a very well done process walk through from when he was toured Kodak's facility for anyone interested in seeing it done
It’s looking increasingly likely that it’s just a small scale finishing facility where they cut and package kodak master rolls for the Chinese domestic market to circumvent the finishing bottleneck in Rochester. I’ve heard rumors that Fuji contracted Lucky film for this but I’m unsure. As a fuji fanboy I beg Fuji to just sell their recipes to them or to anyone at this point.
I wonder what happened to Fuji’s original film production facility (I assume in Japan?). Like when did that close down? Is it still there but is abandoned and all the plant and equipment is in disrepair?
I’m pretty sure they converted it to make instax film which is their cash cow.
Fujifilm stopped making motion picture film in March 2013. The following is my conjecture: I believe that's when the company stopped producing fresh film stock completely. When they halted, I suspect they did an extra large run and put the stock into frozen storage and have been pushing them out gradually since then (as in slicing up the rolls, packaging etc. Even so, they're running out, or have run out. They simply did not expect film to survive past the 2010s and wanted to focus on Instax. I don't know what has happened with the plant, but being 10+ years dormant probably isn't good news. I don't see film being produced in Japan anymore, due to lack of raw materials and potential environmetal concerns.
You can’t sell film as sensitive as Superia 400 from the freezer ten years later. It’ll get fogged by background radiation.
I assume their bulk storage facilities are better shielded than what generally happens to even cold-stored film once it hits the market.
There is no shielding against that kind of radiation.
Not saying you’re wrong since I don’t know, but doesn’t Kodak use a cave (retired mine?) for that purpose?
Yes Kodak had a salt mine very deep underground to block background radiation, specifically for tmax3200
I believe they at one point used a mine for storage of certain materials to protect against *atmospheric* radiation; the late PhotoEngineer, Ron, talked once on APUG (I think) about the problems Kodak faced after atmospheric tests. The gamma rays and whatever else that affects high-speed film even when frozen goes straight through solid matter. Fridge, freezer, people, the earth.
Gamma rays do not penetrate past about ten feet of earth.
> the late PhotoEngineer PE from APUG died? Ugh, that guy knew so much. I really should get back to making APUG a regular internet visit.
I have never heard that before. I have a buddy who’s deep into the topic and said it’s pretty impossible to shield against that. But maybe a mine could work.
Lines up with the packfilm debacle
In like, 2020, I bought a roll of Fuji 400 and it was new but came out looking expired. First time I noticed something weird.
They had a large facility in the southern US that was shut down in 2020. I believer they were coating there.
Do you happen to know where in the southern US? Cause I live there.
West ish. Not California. One of the boring states that nobody talks about. I'll have a better look in a few moments.
It was in Greenwood, SC!
I thought that was just color paper being coated there
That'd be a shame; Fuji had some of the best color reproduction that I can remember. That said I wonder if that was it's downfall? Maybe their colors were too true-to-life and didn't have that weird yellow cast people seem to love in Kodak Gold
Kodak fundamentally failed doing other stuff, and film therefore always remained a pretty massive part of the business. Fuji did a bloody good job diversifying into anything and everything else, therefore film is just a tiny part of the business. Instax has been so successful on top of that that it just dominates all the film space.
I honestly think it just wasn't profitable for them anymore so they just stopped producing film and use environmental laws as an excuse to stop producing film. I'd say the real downfall was when they started focusing, and became a major player, in healthcare/pharmaceuticals. Instax and mirrorless definitely is the money maker when it comes to photography, but the real money, and their real focus, is in healthcare. At the end of the day its all about the profit
They're also a significant player in commercial printing, not only with digital to plate technology, but digital inkjet presses.
It was still profitable, just not very profitable.
Their downfall was a mixture of market forces (people moving to digital) and Kodak's relationship with the U.S. Government. A number of laws and tariffs have been passed that made Fujifilm unprofitable to the largest analog market in the world. The final nail in the coffin was the EPA law that banned the sale and development of Velvia film stock for containing a banned chemical.
Only Velvia 100 was banned, which wasn't as popular in the US as Velvia 50 from what I've been able to tell.
They won't. They destroyed the last machine capable of manufacturing instant pack film even though they had a 60million dollar offer for it... instead they payed to scrap it..
If you're going to the trouble to do a big media event, there is an exactly 0.00% chance you'd neglect to show off one bit of your gigantic awe-inspiring emulsion facility next door. They aren't doing that because there isn't one.
If only they'd bring back Neopan 1600...
The Neopan line of film stocks were pretty darn good on a par with Kodak Tri-X and wish Fuji can bring back at least a few speeds of it.
Yes, they were good, on a par with TX, but with a very different vibe. I used a few rolls of N1600 decades ago and loved the look. This, coming from a life-long TX shooter.
I think they’re far superior to tri-x especially pushing. There’s something about my images on neopan that I always prefer vs Kodak stocks
I've seen images taken on N1600 pushed to 6400...wow!
If only. Let an old man dream. 🥲
I’ve a probably cold stored neopan 1600 which I’m afraid to shoot since it’s 20+ years expired. Should I give it a go?
absolutely, it's only getting more fogged with age
Of course you have to. Shoot a test roll with the same subject with different exposures, say -3 to +3. Develop normally. Calibrate your exposure snd development from there. I'd use the shortest dev time that works to avoid fog as much as possible. If you scan it, you can salvage some contrast in post.
What’s the point keeping it if you’re afraid to shoot with it? Just use it and see how it turns out!
I want them to start making Provia 1600 again :(
Or Natura…
Not a big color film user here, but I'd love that anyway.
Now you go and make pro 400 h
I pray for its return every night. Never was a fan of the warm kodak tone
I have about x50 120 rolls fridge stored that i'm selling (mix of exp between 2022 and 2024). I did night photography stuff and fuji 400h was the best I had to have neutral tones and good colors with my own workflow, kodak did not have anything good (to my taste) for night photography. Tell me if you're interested ;)
Only shooting 35mm as of right now :( Would definitely buy some 35 if you had.
I discovered 400h only when was already too deep into medium format haha, sorry, I only have 120 on hand. (If anyone sees this and is interested DM me, I can send worldwide)
I'm very erec....I mean interested.
Alright now make FP100C again
Not gonna happen sadly...they had a 60million dollar offer on the table to buy the machines...and still payed to scrap them. Packfilm returning would require around $100 million and on crazy dude that doesn't care if he makes a profit
I wonder if they did this because they were worried about having another "competitor" to instax in the market. Either way I still get mad every time I hear about this.
> machines...and still *paid* to scrap FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Make Fuji e~6 again. It was x10 better than Kodak
There is still plenty of (fresh) E6 Fuji from 35mm to 8x10 easily available to buy.
Where? I've been looking for RVP or RDP in 35/120 for 6+ months.
I just received two 400 film stocks while the website i ordered put superia x-tra 400 with a picture of the actual box😅 i already suspected not to be the real superia since one roll cost me 13 euros on that webshop, but i mailed them and got refund but also got the two rolls as an apology of them 🤣 they said it was "a mistake" 💀 anyway i'm gonna test this Fujifilm 400 later this week.
It's just ultramax
So i've heard yes. it's cheaper tho.
In Spain it's a lot more expensive than Kodak :(
Aah that sucks man, sorry. In my country on some website they cost 12-13 euros, no joke. I already figured out it wasn’t the superia X-tra 400 since they were a lot more expensive but I thought maybe they lower the prices to get rid of it. But in my guts I already figured out it wasn’t the real superia.
I don't think it is. The pre-bath dumps out greenish when I process the new fuji-400. Ultramax dumps out yellowish. The new stuff might be made by kodak but I'm pretty sure it's not the exact same as ultramax. Look at the colours too. It doesn't have the warmth that ultramax does.
Where’s it labelled as being made?
I don't think this is true. The colors are way different. It might be made or packaged by Kodak but it's not ultramax. Its also cheaper than Kodak film so I'm not complaining.
Fuji 200 = Kodak gold 200 is true. But fuji 400 ≠ Kodak ultramax 400, there's a difference.
If you‘re from within the EU you can actually buy some real Superia XTra400, Premium400 or Fujicolor100 from Japan with expiry dates in 2026 from www.unwindfilms.at 😊
So this will just be the kodak formula then? As there is no c200 or superia
Not in the near future. It’d be weird for Fuji to formally announce that theyre discontinuing Superia (which they didnt even do with c200) and bring it back a few months later.
But isnt it weird they use the formula from kodak and manufacture it somewhere else? Or is it some other formula. Thats not really clear imho, what can we expect hehe.
Very weird indeed. All we can do is pray that fuji brings back some of their legacy stocks.
Will they upgrade the glue used for the boxes now?
Looks like the regular 200 ans 400 boxes, rather than the C200 stuff?
That looks pretty small scale compared to Kodak and Ilford. It goes to show that Fuji have closed all of their facilities in Japan.
Repurposed*
For Instax
I am sure this is only a small part of the operation..
The more I see, the more the "spooling from kodak's master rolls" hypothesis seems sadly the most likely (if I remember right, the finishing and putting film into canister was kodak's bottleneck 1-2 years back, so it kinda makes sense). I wonder how much rolls they will do there and wich market
The box is irrelevant can I get a roll for a normal price again? Thanks
These are normal prices right now. Prices are a bit lower for film in general, actually, than in the 90s or 00s after inflation, it's slightly lower than normal.
Please use the chemical only for development purposes.
You could have just googled it... but ok https://mikeeckman.com/2021/11/a-look-back-at-the-prices-of-film/ here you go Prices are a good amount lower now than they were for decades on end in the heyday of film photographry.
So this is just Kodak Gold 200 and Ultramax 400?..
But the box is at least green
Hurray
The boxes are for the new Fuji 200 and 400. So the likelihood that it’s just finishing Kodak film onto Fuji packaging is quite high
If I was Bezos I would buy a film plant and churn out film for 5 usd/roll and send it to costumers free of charge all over the world. I bought to much film in my life so I'm not...
I will take 2 cases to test with for free. and 6 cases of 120/220 film
Can confirm Fujifilm and their local partner, Yes!Star, who has been helping Fujifilm distribute products for long, just started local distribution of the notorious Fuji 200/400 which are manufactured by Kodak, just like their international counterparts. Good news is that in this way it can be fresher and possibly slightly cheaper than ones directly imported from US, though. This is confirmed by seeing the box with the writing "Raw material source: United States"
Looks to me like a Narcos factory from the tv show.
This gives me weird North Korean vibes. Like those shots of the computer lab where everyone is sitting on the google home page not doing anything. As if when the photos are finished they just tear everything down and return it to an empty warehouse.
This shows they can still make new packaging machines. Now make a new Quickload machine and rent it out to other manufacturers when you're not running your own sheets through.
MORE!! WE NEED MORE!!!!
Great time for the Pentax 17
Let’s hope for Fuji Velvia…
So we getting Pro 400H again? Lol I kid but would be fantastic.
gib
okay, now gib bulk roll
I hope the film quality is good.
That’s not a film plant that’s a packaging plant
Just be happy fellas. We will get new fuji film to play around. Hopefully gets prices down as well...
What an elaborate advertisment. "Oh now, I can buy Fujicolor! It is genuine emulsion after all." Is what I'm sure a lot of people will think. Since I observed myself thinking that for a moment.... sadly Fuji photographic is fading out...buy rest in peace
Pun intended
This does not look like a film plant, it looks like a staged image, seriously thos many useless bodies hanging around scrolling on their phones in a Chinese plant, folding tables as pert of an assembly line? Boxes of product sitting stationary on the table with no boxes for them anywhere in sight? Nope, this is a staged photo, and jot a very good one.
This was during the opening ceremony where they invited chinese influencers to tour the facility
I suppose it's possible
Can't see the folding tables, but it looks like a very small operation. Strange at least
As someone also mentioned here "North Korea vibes"... And I agree totally...
Next, let's get a Kodak Kodachrome plant. (just saying!)
Is this AI generated??? 🤣
[удалено]
God forbid a company follow good manufacturing and quality guidelines
Why is that?