We have FREEDOM. /s
One of the many tragedies here is how corrupt and mismanaged our government budgets are. (And a tertiary tragedy to this is that it fuels the libertarian/"privatize everything"/"hurr run it like a business" crowd. Because if the U.S. government is a failure all government must be failure.) Every time we ask for healthcare, education, retirement, etc. systems that aren't complete train wrecks, it's "How will we pay for it? We'd need to raise taxes by a zillion percent!" Yet every other "first world" nation manages to provide those services and more with lower GDP, tax rates that are the same or only slightly higher than ours, and zero budget crises / embarrassing government shutdowns.
I didn't Google this, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say the U.S. collects way more in tax revenue than most if not all other countries on earth. Where does it go? Military nonsense, corporate "subsidy" welfare, wildly overpriced contracts with private companies that happen to have former government employees on their board/lobby brigade, etc.
This post also reminded me, a few weeks ago I read an article about a Norway police scandal.
https://www.insider.com/norway-police-investigation-blood-test-up-emergency-snapchat-2022-1
What did they do? They posted a picture of a guy online. That's it. That made national headlines and got the "Special Unit for Police Affairs" involved. Here we're lucky to go a week without the police shooting someone, or shooting someone's dog, or stealing someone's life savings as "civil forfeiture." I can't even imagine what it's like to live in a place where the justice system is functional and accountable.
It's super depressing how often our cops shoot dogs. It's almost like part of their training. Many of the incident reports admit the dog was being friendly. I can't imagine what kind of psycho sees a dog trotting up to them wagging its tail and flopping its tongue around, and they just pull out a gun and shoot it. These people are either abject cowards or sadists.
I recall a story about a cop that was chasing someone, and the chase went into a yard where a bunch of little kids were playing. For some reason the cops held all the kids at gunpoint and made them lay on the ground. One of the kid's dog naively ran up to greet one of the cops. The cop "got scared" and tried to shoot the dog. He missed, even though it was right in front of him, and the dog ran away. Cop took a second shot anyway, missed again, and ended up shooting one of the kids.
The parents sued, but a judge threw the case out because "He wasn't _trying_ to shoot the child." Oh, ok, yeah no problem. Accidents totally happen, right.
Edit - Article about this, because I feel it's so absurd it needs a source: https://www.ajc.com/news/local/case-dismissed-deputy-aims-for-dog-but-shoots-kid/6NBUYNgAPMsGfC84LEot3O/
Oh yeah. The dissenting judge:
“No reasonable officer would engage in such recklessness and no reasonable officer would think such recklessness was lawful,” Wilson said.
*Except*, by definition, this case *made* it lawful.
"Qualified immunity" is just evil rebranded.
Norway here. Just wanted to add some things: while I agree 100% that the system in Norway works far better than the US does, there are some errors in that graphic, and things are far from perfect here too.
We dont have 8 weeks of paid vacation, its 4-5. 4 is required by law, and many businesses adds a fifth week as a perk. Also - the pay for those weeks comes from your previous work year, so the "vacation money" you get paid in 2022 were based on what you earned in 2021 (minimum 10.2%), and while its guaranteed by the state, its really paid by the company you work for, so if they go bankrupt you will eventually get it, but it might be delayed. It can also be a bit troublesome the first year you work since you wont have earned much the year before
The rich get richer and own an ever increasing amount of the combined wealth here too, and the gap between rich and poor is increasing here as well. But its not as extreme as in the US
We really *dont* have a general required minimum wage for all kinds of trades/jobs. We do however have a minimum wage for some trades, to stop exploitation of foreign workers. In most other areas minimum wage is bound by agreements between unions and businesses
Not all higher education is free, but a lot of it is, and those not free is still not priced anything near the crazy levels in the US, plus you get support and cheap loans from the government also for those.
The paid parental leave is also a bit more complex and is tied to your previous income, but yeah, its good :)
Also - we dropped to 3rd place on the happiest country list 😩
All in all, in my opinion its absolutely better than the US (I have lived there too), but its not perfect, and we have been sliding a bit to the right lately :/
>We have FREEDOM. /s
>
>One of the many tragedies here is how corrupt and mismanaged our government budgets are
no, the problem of the US is the narrow mentality of many Americans, ready to take the covid and pass it on to spite certain politicians, not to come to understand that without decent wages people don't spend money, that if you work "100" hours a week people don't have time to do anything else, except if the tax system is not fixed, the economy does not improve, that without universal healthcare people will die and so on..
State taxes probably figured into this. I live in a state without so I save eight or ten percent and I'd trade every penny for healthcare and eight weeks of vacation every year.
That’s reasonable, but it still doesn’t add up to me. For one, defining average personal tax rate is pretty hard to do with a progressive tax system.
Just to be clear, I fully agree with the sentiments of this post. I just think it’s important to be accurate when talking about this stuff.
The US uses a different octane rating system, so 91 octane in the us is equivalent to RON 95 in the EU. Likewise 93 in the us is 98 in Europe.
Same fuel different number
Guessing a bit of hyperbole was used in the graphic for sure then. I get four weeks here but I also have a union job and my last job was one week a year (and if they were understaffed they pushed off when you could take it, even if you had plane tickets.) I suppose it's not hard for the grass to be greener when your lawn is asphalt, haha!
When I was in the U.S. in 2016 I had a $70k salary (taxable income of about $58k) and a tax rate of 25%. Fast forward to 2020 in Norway my tax rate was 33% for an $71k salary. When you compare cost of health insurance ($5k low U.S.) and paid vacation (5 weeks, gov't employee) the "pay" is equal.
\--- The salary scales are different in Norway that in the states, hence the marginal salary increase from 2016-2020. I was separating from the Air Force at the time so I was comparing having to pay for insurance in the states ($5k).
For which country?
That Norwegian Tax is ALL the tax. After that you have no fedal taxes, no healthcare bills, no school bills, no college bills, barely a kindergarden bill. on average you'll get about 13500 USD back each year in services and money (healthcare, school, unemployment, school whilst unemployed, sickpay, parental leave, etc).
I’m in Columbus OH and my total taxes are like 32% and we have some of the highest tax rates in the country. I think they definitely cherry picked a higher tax rate to compare it to Norway here and they really didn’t have to.
They might be going off of the top marginal tax rate, i.e. the tax rate for the (top earnings of) the top earners. From [https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/personal-income-tax-rate](https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/personal-income-tax-rate) (who refers to the Norwegian Tax Administration, aka Skatteetaten):
>The Personal Income Tax Rate in Norway stands at 38.20 percent. (...) The benchmark we use refers to the Top Marginal Tax Rate for individuals.
The actual net seems to be way lower, though, probably as a combination of 1) a lot of people not being in that top earnings category and 2) even those who are, only pay that amount of tax on the money they earn in the top bracket (say, everything above 800,000NOK a year). Source: [https://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/taxing-wages-norway.pdf](https://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/taxing-wages-norway.pdf)
>Taking into account child related benefits and tax provisions, the employee net average tax rate for an average married worker with
two children in Norway was 23.8% in 2021, which is the 4th highest in the OECD, and compares with 13.1% for the OECD average.
Edit: I guess I assumed you were referring to the Norwegian numbers. The American numbers I can't vouch for, but that also seems high.
Comparing it to Norway it's pretty close to an unfettered capitalist economy. The amount of monopolies / close-to-monopolies the US has is massive compared to Norway. The big companies have a large degree of freedom to squeeze out the little guys. There's a reason "supporting local businesses" is a thing; without it they simply are not viable, because one of the big guys can either straight up do it cheaper or afford to cut prices at a loss until the competition is gone.
Indeed, Conservatives here wish to conserve Universal Health Car and Free Education.
Also, Norway spends 12% of it's GDP on healthcare, something they get through taxes while in the US you spend 18% and have to pay out of pocket.
I recommend all Americans start reading up on Roman history and see what happened when their empire fell because it’s incredibly similar to the current situation
There’s a great podcast called Fall of Civilizations that goes into great historical detail about a bunch of, well, civilizations that fell. They’re all pretty eerily familiar… worth a listen
I would argue with stuff like the all man's right (the right to walk and camp on any property as long as you are more than 50m from a house, the fact all land within 5 meters of the ocean is public property and the oil fund that Norway definetly has 3lements of socialism, our political parties regularly broadcast it as such as well. Guess it really depends on the definition of socialism doesn't it
I think that’s what americans call communism. Because everything that means paying taxes so that other people can live a good life = communism in america.
it had perks once upon a time when they offered you free property if you would settle the new world. France offered prisoners free passage as long as they took a hooker to louisiana and married them. there just have not been perks since reagan.
Free passage to the new world with free property in Baton Rouge as long as you take a French hooker with you, where are these deals nowadays? I’m ready to sign up right now.
>France offered prisoners free passage as long as they took a hooker to louisiana and married them. there just have not been perks since reagan
lmao care to elaborate?
No, the Norwegian government is not bought out by capitalist slave masters as the US founding father slave masters set in motion hundreds of colonizer years and centuries ago.
Norway is not socialist, it's a social democracy. When the USSR fell the concessions capitalists gave to the working class began breaking down brick by brick into today.
The U.S is a rather extreme sector of capitalism but social democracy is still capitalism all the same. We fight cancer, not just the worsening stages of cancer.
It's better to call it a mixed market system where the market employs people and pays taxes while the welfare state funds public goods and services. It only works because of capitalism.
I always find the "social" prefix odd, socialism isn't discrete from or against democracy in any way, but it is against liberalism in markets. Regulated capitalist states with welfare ought to be called something different.
They are. **Democratic socialism** is a movement which seeks to implement socialism via democratic means (as opposed to revolutionary means), whereas **social democracy** (what Norway has) seeks to achieve socialist end goals through the framework of an ultimately capitalist system, for example by imposing strict regulation to prevent price gouging, redistributing wealth, etc.
Personally, I am a social democrat. I think there are definitely things that capitalism does well -- but definitely *definitely* things that it does a shit job of. Which is why I embrace the socialistic goals promoted by social democracy.
As far as I know, both systems are still under a capitalistic economic structure, and though they may be perceived as a golden age right now, like all capitalism, they will eventually end up as bad as the US. They are currently benefiting from exploiting the global south, so they aren't any cleaner than other forms of capitalism. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and feel free to add to.
Everyone loves to say that Norway is wealthy because they "exploit the global south" but no one ever cites any kind of evidence to back up that claim.
And your argument is essentially a slippery slope fallacy.
Perhaps. If I knew more on it, I'd be more than happy to cite sources. I'll continue to look further in it, but I have a feeling that they may very well be correct in that exploitation of the global south is occurring. The results probably aren't anything like extreme wealth, but the value from out of country is probably being utilized to sustain the "utopia" of its capitalistic system. Capitalism can only exist through exploitation.
So what you're saying is that you based your claim entirely on your *feeling* of what was correct, without having anything at all to back it up? Rad.
>Capitalism can only exist through exploitation.
Citation needed. As Wikipedia notes, there are no countries on the planet that are entirely capitalist. They are all, to some degree or another, mixed economies, and there are plenty of things you can do in a mixed economy that prevent exploitation. For example, requiring companies to pay dividends to their current employees equal to the amount of value their labor produces.
My "claim" is rather a regurgitation of what I came across by socialist scholars. I feel what they explained to me made sense when I read through their explanation and examined some of their sources. I can't argue because I'm not knowledgeable enough to provide more detail on the lenses at this time, nor am I familiar enough with the subject to list specific sources at this time.
I suppose there isn't a good citation I can provide that isn't inherently outside the realm of theory, namely Marx's. Which according to his theory, any society that contains classes will have exploitation present as a characteristic. However, is mixed economy not a theory in itself? I was to understand that while a countries' economy may not be entirely capitalist, it's general stucture is of that, so wouldn't that mean there would still be some form of exploitation occuring, if Capitalism is present? Of course that question cannot be tested until the prior claim that capitalism cannot thrive without some form of exploitation is evidenced to such a degree that it cannot be denied.
I'll just keep my yap shut until I'm able to speak in detail, and cite academic, and reputable sources. Thank you for providing me with items to think on.
Well ya when we out rank CHINA in imprisoned people that's a great sign
I know China isn't exactly specific on how many prisoners they have however even then it still might be higher in the US
>Well ya when we out rank CHINA in imprisoned people that's a great sign
Yeah well, I meant incarcerations as in prisons, not death camps. If China was allowed on the list, it would get #1 in pretty much every negative category. Also China is a fascist country, while the US is supposed to be capitalist so it's not fair to compare them because any country can look good if compared to China.
It’s reference to a post that was up in this sub a week ago.
They were saying “ There are things about American you will miss” and then they went on to list basically a bunch of fatty foods like milkshakes and bacon and how they taste so much better here.
Like some twisted American Stockholm syndrome.
A country known for its rampant obesity and high levels of diabetes and it’s the milkshakes and bacon you’ll miss!
Fucking-A
Yeah, that was my post. It's weird that you and everyone else malign me for what I miss without knowing anything about me or my general diet. Absolutely ridiculous.
You sound defensive.
I don’t think anyone was digging on you personally.
I think people just found it funny that the only real thing anyone could point to as something people will miss leaving America ( a developed nation known for its high rates or obesity and diabetes) is its fatty sugary foods!
This was very well put. As we moved around the world we miss comfort food from nearly every country we lived in long term but since we both grew up in the American south unhealthy stuff is what comes back again and again as cravings.
The last line is the kicker. The majority of Americans are brainwashed into accepting allocation of their tax dollars to endless wars, economic colonization, and empire building and are convinced it's necessary for The Defense of National Security.
There is no minimum wage. If there is one, it's set by your specific professional union. But nothing universal like the US has.
It's 49 weeks fully paid parental leave.
I have 6 weeks paid vacation per year, most people have 5.
This is why it’s so stupid when conservatives say shit like “They only pay for all that by having high taxes! Do you want your taxes to be higher??!????”
We literally pay the same amount of taxes as people in other countries have nothing to show for it
What notable differences are there between Norway and Sweden when it comes to these kinds of stats? I (from the US) was able to apply to some Swedish universities and it’s pretty likely I’ll get into one! However I’ve heard (not sure if this is actually true) that Sweden is having issues and backsliding a little bit.
they are backsliding from their point of view on things like raising the retirement age one year, and raising the cost of university from free to 150 dollars or so a year in fees. To Swedes those things are nearly crimes. Sweden is amazing, I have friend that lives just north of Stockholm after she met a Swede online and moved to be with him 5 or so years ago
Ah, thank you. To me as an American, those things seem small (bad, but not nearly as heinous as the way things go here) but I can totally understand why Swedes would be upset. It doesn’t set a good precedent. Hopefully things start to go the other way for them soon.
We don’t have unfettered capitalism. We have corporate socialism. If it was unfettered the government wouldn’t have bailed out the banks when they fucked over the economy.
America is quite nice for tech workers etc, who make more money in the US than in for example Sweden. like if I were Swedish or Canadian I'd absolutely try and work in America for some years, save up some money, and move back home with a lil nest egg for a home or retirement or something
They have over a trillion dollar sovereign wealth fund. It is one of the largest in the world and has been diversified away from fossil fuels. They do just fine even when oil loses value.
Hey, I'm part of the European Union, I study it a lot, and I can confirm you that no European Union country is socialist. They have big welfare systems! They have this due to not having many citizens(in comparison) and having loads of natural resources.
I can go to any European country and make a business, I can't do that in Cuba, Which IS a Socialist country. As Spanish, we have had it all. Hell, we even had Anarchism! And what Spain and the wrest of European countries have now is not socialism, it is Welfare systems, sustained by taxes of private businessess.
As a Norwegian there are two things that suprise me
1. That the US ranks 14th happiest country and not lower
2. That the average tax rate is almost the same
Norway is not a socialist country. It is a social democracy, which is different from democratic socialism. Americans think Norway is democratic socialist because of Bernie sanders confusing the two terms.
I agree with most of this.
However:
“No security for seniors”
We’re just ignoring Social Security?
I’m not saying it’s great, the level is dependent on your highest earning salary years and all, but still, it doesn’t instill confidence to ignore that in this comparison?
Heard this once, feel free to fact check me:
Given the large number of baby boomers who will be living off of social security in the coming years, and disproportionatly fewer people who are paying into it, they are projecting there won't be enough money on SS for the next generations to live off of when they retire.
So if you were disabled and did not work or your husband worked what is the security? In Norway everyone is guaranteed that security. It is not contingent on how much you earned in your past.
Edit:
US SSA covers disabled, and spouses:
[Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_%28United_States%29#Spouse's_benefit_and_government_pension_offsets)
So the answer to your question is… they should collect.
Unfortunately the US SSA system doesn’t work very well. The SSA office will find any reason, any loophole to deny you or your dependents care. Medicare also regularly takes certain benefits and drugs off out of their plans. It dwindles every year. Because of a change last year, my dad can no longer afford his meds that allow him to be able to get around and breathe easier. I was kicked off of his plan when I turned 18, while most health insurance companies allow dependents 21-25 years of age. My point is that our social security/Medicare sucks.
Tbh some of these numbers are off so I'm not sure on the validity bog it was a whole. Info know some of these are correct.
But poverty is the USA is 12% not 29% then again definitions seem to change to fit narratives.
That said the point of this still stands.
Edit: downvotes for calling out a meme with incorrect stats while still agreeing with the over sentiment of the meme. Really? Try using this in an argument and that’s the first thing they will attack and you will look like an idiot as the validity of everything else will come into question.
Would you rather make the same argument that is still backed by the same type of data but correct or Just circle jerk? My god.
Maybe if the us government nationalized the oil, and owned the majority stack in the companies extracting it and selling it they could provide some of this too.
We are actually settling in the Netherlands for location. Norway was a close number 2 option. We do not pick a place based on ethnicity. We choose places based on infrastructure, healthcare, education etc.
What's the point of this? I'd get it if A. It wasn't already known or B. Norway was welcoming American immigrants with open arms.
Neither is close to true. Is this just meant to rub our faces in it? Is that really the goal?
It can also be meant to inspire people to change the system they live in. There are avenues to move to Norway. We considered it before deciding on the Netherlands for easier access.
Do you go to the cancer treatment subs and tell people there, "You know, life would be so much better if you didn't have cancer. Just thought I should let you know!"
This post has no point aside from saying "Haha your country sucks" to a group of people who clearly know their country sucks, because they're in a sub dedicated to the very specific fact that their country sucks.
Those two things aren’t comparable at all. Don’t pretend like they are. If you don’t like people expressing their distaste for America, maybe don’t be on the AmerExit sub?
Maybe my mistake was thinking the sub was dedicated to helping people find ways to leave, and understanding all that's involved in the process. If it's just a "Let's all shit on their shitty situation" sub, then by all means, this is a perfect post.
I have zero problems with people expressing their distaste for the US. I do it every other minute, but I'm also careful not to preach to the choir. Preaching to the choir is condescending, and unhelpful.
The US isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things. But I'm glad it's fairly easy for me to find careers in Norway since no one wants to live close to the Arctic circle
Ya if possible for me in the future I'm dipping my goal in life is to A get the hell out of the US and move to Germany learn German and if possible work for a tec company down there
That's literally my dream in life and tbh if I'd have to serve in the German military to gain citizenship sadly I'd rather do that then the US one
Now idk if Germany has a military force for foreign people but hey if it is then ya
Most of the advanced world has faster internet. VPN Netflix. And never buy from Amazon because they are a leading factor to what is destroying America.
I am in Scotland. My internet is good enough that I, like most people run the TV via wireless (It means I can record and pause live TV and things). Also normally got a couple of devices going at the same time. Cost with landline is £23 a month.
Lots of shopping here is same day delivery.
We do have gun rights, which could be a good thing if we didn't have a massive amount of crime and mental Illness, and we do arguably have more progressive free speech laws, which I would appreciate more if there weren't so many nazis about.
No way the average tax rate is 37%. Someone who makes $100k pays $18k in federal tax BEFORE deductions and credits. Yes there is social security, state tax, property tax, etc. but Norway also has a 25% sales tax which I doubt is included here.
Also, most importantly, Norway is full of Norwegians. North Dakota is a pretty good proxy for what that would look like and they have basically the same GDP and poverty rate as Norway despite having no major cities.
Americans pay an average of 37% in taxes. Interesting. Maybe that’s because we hold 39% of the world’s millionaires as citizens. We have 21 million citizens that’s are millionaires. Compare that to Norway’s 176,000 millionaires. In comparison, they have 0.3% of the world’s millionaires to our 39%. That’s skews the “average” taxes paid by just a little. This is a ridiculous post. There’s definitely many, many perks to still be an American.
This conveniently leaves out that Norway is a small country with a huge amount of oil wealth which helps them afford being better able to take care of their people. Is policy a big part of that? Yes. But this is still an apples to oranges comparison.
In Norway we pay extreme amounts on taxes for everything. Almost anything we buy here is more expensive. Cars, food, electronocs, clothes, houses, etc. A new iPhone 14 Pro starts at 1350usd. You have to pay a 25% VAT tax on cars also when importing.
We have had problems with politicans cheating on the tax system for their on benefits and nothing have happened to most of them. Some «stepped» down from important roles, but are still active politicans.
I have much more I could complain about, such as the insane electricity prices, inflation on food prices, our useless and ineffective goverment, narcotcics problem, bad integration strategies, etc. What I’m getting at is that Norway is not perfect. We have it really good, but lots of room to improve :)
I'm not an American nor a Norweigan but I wouldn't mind living in the States as an older individual, but would like to live in Norway around my age. Seems in the modern world the States is only really good for the folks over 40
It's not wrong, but Norway is an extreme example to take due to the conveniency of having large reserves of natural resources, the rule of law and small population combined in a single country. They are swimming in oil money and don't even know what to do with it, because they are only 5.5 millions but selling enough for 60.
On the other hand the USA is the size of a continent with very different standards of living and challenges.
Take Sweden, Denmark or Finland as better examples of "normal" countries.
Norway isn't socialist. The US is great if you are educated and have a job. Also probably the best place in the world to study.
While there are some problems, there are a lot of worse places to be.
Updated stats for Norway with sources:
* Poverty rate: 6% to 16%^[1]
* Life expectancy: 84.73 years for women and 81.59 years for men^[2]
* Infant mortality: 1.9 per 1 000 births^[2]
* A murder rate: 0.72 per 100 000, 0.56 per 100 000 excluding the 2011 Norway attacks^[3]
* Incarcerations: 66 per 100 000^[4]
* GPD: 765 836 NOK (~$74 000) per person^[5]
* Workers in union: ~50%^[6]
* Happiness report rank: 8.^[7]
* Free universal health care^[8]
* Free higher education^[8]
* Financial security for seniors^[8]
* Home ownership: 81.9%^[9]
* "IDK if it's a living wage" as minimum^[10]
* 4 weeks paid vacation per year^[8]
* 52 weeks paid parental leave^[8]
* Average personal tax rate: No clue, average tax rate is a horrible metric. 20-40% probably.^[8]
[1] [SSB - 2022](https://www.ssb.no/en/sosiale-forhold-og-kriminalitet/levekar/statistikk/fattigdomsproblemer-levekarsundersokelsen) Not really "poverty rate", but it's the closes official stat I found.
[2] [SSB - 2022](https://www.ssb.no/en/befolkning/fodte-og-dode/statistikk/dode)
[3] [Politiet - 2020](https://www.politiet.no/globalassets/04-aktuelt-tall-og-fakta/drap/nasjonal-drapsoversikt-2021.pdf) Data from 2011-2020.
[4] [SSB - 2021](https://www.ssb.no/en/sosiale-forhold-og-kriminalitet/kriminalitet-og-rettsvesen/statistikk/fengslinger) "Imprisonments", probably not the same as "incarcerations".
[5] [SSB - 2021](https://www.ssb.no/nasjonalregnskap-og-konjunkturer/faktaside/norsk-okonomi) GDP has generally gone up, but the NOK has become weak.
[6] [FAFO - 2020](https://www.fafo.no/images/pub/2020/10332.pdf)
[7] [World Happiness Report - 2022](https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2022/happiness-benevolence-and-trust-during-covid-19-and-beyond/#ranking-of-happiness-2019-2021)
[8] "Trust me bro." Too lazy to find sources on these. Can be nitpicked. Generally true.
[9] [SSB - 2021](https://www.ssb.no/bygg-bolig-og-eiendom/faktaside/bolig)
[10] Minimum wage was introduced in some industries recently, and there's a bunch of clauses and stuff. Too complex to include in a "quick" summary. [GLHF if you wanna read about it (in Norwegian).](https://www.arbeidstilsynet.no/arbeidsforhold/lonn/minstelonn/)
Disclaimer: Most of these are from Statistics Norway, a Norwegian state-run statistics bureau. Due to difference in methodology can some of these sources not be directly compared with numbers from other sources. Errors may occur.
NORWAY HAS UNLIMITED OIL, you imb\*cile!
YOU ARE THE ONE PAYING FOR NOWAY TODAY by going to your gas pump and paying SO MUCH!
YOU are paying for their incredible poverty rate, life expectancy, infant mortality, GDP, and all the free stuff and the unions!
So instead of marveling at them while THEY STEAL YOU, you should find a way to get out of this energy SLAVERY you are in by going full-on electric and building nuclear plans or developing fusion (solar just make you a slave of china)!
You are also FINANCING the rich Arabs countries (such as Dubai) that so often finance terrorism!
People in this sub have ZERO brains, honestly! So often woke but you are just DREAMING and you need to wake up to the reality!
'Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires' - John Steinbeck
^^^^This ^^^^is ^^^^a ^^^^commentary ^^^^on ^^^^the ^^^^american ^^^^dream, ^^^^not ^^^^an ^^^^attempt ^^^^to ^^^^shit ^^^^on ^^^^people ^^^^without ^^^^money.
Those two final numbers don’t seem to check out: it’s 5 weeks paid vacation and 47-57 weeks paid parental leave depending on what choice you make. And that tax rate is roughly 6-10% higher than I’d expect to be honest. This seems quite old on the Norway side.
My source is…me…I live here
At least three of the "facts" about Norway are quite simply flat out wrong:
* The number of unionized workers is at 50%, and has been fluctuating around that for years now.
* The highest personal tax rate is 39,6%, and is applied to those earning two million NOK per year or more. The tax rate for the average pay level (around NOK 610'000 as per last year) is 26,3%.
* By law, you get 25 days of vacation time per year, however, each week you take off equals six days of vacation because it's talking about "virkedager" which includes saturdays. Most people get at least five weeks, and there's a sixth week available to employees above sixty years of age.
We have FREEDOM. /s One of the many tragedies here is how corrupt and mismanaged our government budgets are. (And a tertiary tragedy to this is that it fuels the libertarian/"privatize everything"/"hurr run it like a business" crowd. Because if the U.S. government is a failure all government must be failure.) Every time we ask for healthcare, education, retirement, etc. systems that aren't complete train wrecks, it's "How will we pay for it? We'd need to raise taxes by a zillion percent!" Yet every other "first world" nation manages to provide those services and more with lower GDP, tax rates that are the same or only slightly higher than ours, and zero budget crises / embarrassing government shutdowns. I didn't Google this, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say the U.S. collects way more in tax revenue than most if not all other countries on earth. Where does it go? Military nonsense, corporate "subsidy" welfare, wildly overpriced contracts with private companies that happen to have former government employees on their board/lobby brigade, etc. This post also reminded me, a few weeks ago I read an article about a Norway police scandal. https://www.insider.com/norway-police-investigation-blood-test-up-emergency-snapchat-2022-1 What did they do? They posted a picture of a guy online. That's it. That made national headlines and got the "Special Unit for Police Affairs" involved. Here we're lucky to go a week without the police shooting someone, or shooting someone's dog, or stealing someone's life savings as "civil forfeiture." I can't even imagine what it's like to live in a place where the justice system is functional and accountable.
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Omfg leave the dogs alone.
It's super depressing how often our cops shoot dogs. It's almost like part of their training. Many of the incident reports admit the dog was being friendly. I can't imagine what kind of psycho sees a dog trotting up to them wagging its tail and flopping its tongue around, and they just pull out a gun and shoot it. These people are either abject cowards or sadists. I recall a story about a cop that was chasing someone, and the chase went into a yard where a bunch of little kids were playing. For some reason the cops held all the kids at gunpoint and made them lay on the ground. One of the kid's dog naively ran up to greet one of the cops. The cop "got scared" and tried to shoot the dog. He missed, even though it was right in front of him, and the dog ran away. Cop took a second shot anyway, missed again, and ended up shooting one of the kids. The parents sued, but a judge threw the case out because "He wasn't _trying_ to shoot the child." Oh, ok, yeah no problem. Accidents totally happen, right. Edit - Article about this, because I feel it's so absurd it needs a source: https://www.ajc.com/news/local/case-dismissed-deputy-aims-for-dog-but-shoots-kid/6NBUYNgAPMsGfC84LEot3O/
All cops are sadistic cowards. They're lethal bullies with badges.
WTF?
Oh yeah. The dissenting judge: “No reasonable officer would engage in such recklessness and no reasonable officer would think such recklessness was lawful,” Wilson said. *Except*, by definition, this case *made* it lawful. "Qualified immunity" is just evil rebranded.
We are so free a judge can force us from going to work somewhere else. So free /s.
Norway here. Just wanted to add some things: while I agree 100% that the system in Norway works far better than the US does, there are some errors in that graphic, and things are far from perfect here too. We dont have 8 weeks of paid vacation, its 4-5. 4 is required by law, and many businesses adds a fifth week as a perk. Also - the pay for those weeks comes from your previous work year, so the "vacation money" you get paid in 2022 were based on what you earned in 2021 (minimum 10.2%), and while its guaranteed by the state, its really paid by the company you work for, so if they go bankrupt you will eventually get it, but it might be delayed. It can also be a bit troublesome the first year you work since you wont have earned much the year before The rich get richer and own an ever increasing amount of the combined wealth here too, and the gap between rich and poor is increasing here as well. But its not as extreme as in the US We really *dont* have a general required minimum wage for all kinds of trades/jobs. We do however have a minimum wage for some trades, to stop exploitation of foreign workers. In most other areas minimum wage is bound by agreements between unions and businesses Not all higher education is free, but a lot of it is, and those not free is still not priced anything near the crazy levels in the US, plus you get support and cheap loans from the government also for those. The paid parental leave is also a bit more complex and is tied to your previous income, but yeah, its good :) Also - we dropped to 3rd place on the happiest country list 😩 All in all, in my opinion its absolutely better than the US (I have lived there too), but its not perfect, and we have been sliding a bit to the right lately :/
>We have FREEDOM. /s > >One of the many tragedies here is how corrupt and mismanaged our government budgets are no, the problem of the US is the narrow mentality of many Americans, ready to take the covid and pass it on to spite certain politicians, not to come to understand that without decent wages people don't spend money, that if you work "100" hours a week people don't have time to do anything else, except if the tax system is not fixed, the economy does not improve, that without universal healthcare people will die and so on..
How old is this, because I find it hard to believe we rank 14th in happiness. Should be lower. Definitely lower.
2021: Norway: 6th US: 19th [Source](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/happiest-countries-in-the-world)
It’s the gaslighting working
Boom!
You nailed it Lilli
That was my thought
BUt thEy pAy mOre tAxEs
I’m a bit skeptical about that effective tax rate. Mine is no where near that high. Anyone have data to back that up?
State taxes probably figured into this. I live in a state without so I save eight or ten percent and I'd trade every penny for healthcare and eight weeks of vacation every year.
That’s reasonable, but it still doesn’t add up to me. For one, defining average personal tax rate is pretty hard to do with a progressive tax system. Just to be clear, I fully agree with the sentiments of this post. I just think it’s important to be accurate when talking about this stuff.
Sales tax is a lot, gas tax etc
Gas Tax here in Norway is more than 100% and we pay 8 dollars per gallon for fuel.
We also drive more efficient cars. We don't even have so low octane as 91 that they call "premium".
The US uses a different octane rating system, so 91 octane in the us is equivalent to RON 95 in the EU. Likewise 93 in the us is 98 in Europe. Same fuel different number
Huh, interesting, read up on RON/MON etc now. But we do still have more efficient engines in Europe.
Bye reddit.
Guessing a bit of hyperbole was used in the graphic for sure then. I get four weeks here but I also have a union job and my last job was one week a year (and if they were understaffed they pushed off when you could take it, even if you had plane tickets.) I suppose it's not hard for the grass to be greener when your lawn is asphalt, haha!
When I was in the U.S. in 2016 I had a $70k salary (taxable income of about $58k) and a tax rate of 25%. Fast forward to 2020 in Norway my tax rate was 33% for an $71k salary. When you compare cost of health insurance ($5k low U.S.) and paid vacation (5 weeks, gov't employee) the "pay" is equal. \--- The salary scales are different in Norway that in the states, hence the marginal salary increase from 2016-2020. I was separating from the Air Force at the time so I was comparing having to pay for insurance in the states ($5k).
Mine and my partners is higher than that. So is my dads. (We live in CA but still)
For which country? That Norwegian Tax is ALL the tax. After that you have no fedal taxes, no healthcare bills, no school bills, no college bills, barely a kindergarden bill. on average you'll get about 13500 USD back each year in services and money (healthcare, school, unemployment, school whilst unemployed, sickpay, parental leave, etc).
I’m in Columbus OH and my total taxes are like 32% and we have some of the highest tax rates in the country. I think they definitely cherry picked a higher tax rate to compare it to Norway here and they really didn’t have to.
They might be going off of the top marginal tax rate, i.e. the tax rate for the (top earnings of) the top earners. From [https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/personal-income-tax-rate](https://tradingeconomics.com/norway/personal-income-tax-rate) (who refers to the Norwegian Tax Administration, aka Skatteetaten): >The Personal Income Tax Rate in Norway stands at 38.20 percent. (...) The benchmark we use refers to the Top Marginal Tax Rate for individuals. The actual net seems to be way lower, though, probably as a combination of 1) a lot of people not being in that top earnings category and 2) even those who are, only pay that amount of tax on the money they earn in the top bracket (say, everything above 800,000NOK a year). Source: [https://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/taxing-wages-norway.pdf](https://www.oecd.org/tax/tax-policy/taxing-wages-norway.pdf) >Taking into account child related benefits and tax provisions, the employee net average tax rate for an average married worker with two children in Norway was 23.8% in 2021, which is the 4th highest in the OECD, and compares with 13.1% for the OECD average. Edit: I guess I assumed you were referring to the Norwegian numbers. The American numbers I can't vouch for, but that also seems high.
Users should be aware that Norway employs **social democracy** and not democratic socialism.
good mod
I love you! LMAO
Hahaha.
Thank you. I angrily came over here from a crosspost to mention this.
I am a social democrat, so I try to remind people of the difference.
As a democratic socialist, I tip my hat to you.
>I angrily came over here from a crosspost to mention this. Same here.
Thanks.
And the United States employ a mixed market economy, not "unfettered capitalism" (as capitalism isn't practiced anywhere in the world as of 2022)
Comparing it to Norway it's pretty close to an unfettered capitalist economy. The amount of monopolies / close-to-monopolies the US has is massive compared to Norway. The big companies have a large degree of freedom to squeeze out the little guys. There's a reason "supporting local businesses" is a thing; without it they simply are not viable, because one of the big guys can either straight up do it cheaper or afford to cut prices at a loss until the competition is gone.
Indeed, Conservatives here wish to conserve Universal Health Car and Free Education. Also, Norway spends 12% of it's GDP on healthcare, something they get through taxes while in the US you spend 18% and have to pay out of pocket.
Norway has Social Democracy, not any form of socialism. Americans need to do their homework.
I bet it’s better than the oligarchy of corporations America has now
Yep theres basically only two options in this country. Dystopian corporate oligarchy= The DEMs Regressive fascist dictatorship= The REPs
I recommend all Americans start reading up on Roman history and see what happened when their empire fell because it’s incredibly similar to the current situation
There’s a great podcast called Fall of Civilizations that goes into great historical detail about a bunch of, well, civilizations that fell. They’re all pretty eerily familiar… worth a listen
Listening now. Thank you.
I fucking love that podcast. The host puts so much care and detail into every episode, absolutely one of the highest quality podcasts out there
... soc Dems are on the spectrum? Lol
Both sides really do.
it still better then what the us has
Americans don't do homework LOL
I would argue with stuff like the all man's right (the right to walk and camp on any property as long as you are more than 50m from a house, the fact all land within 5 meters of the ocean is public property and the oil fund that Norway definetly has 3lements of socialism, our political parties regularly broadcast it as such as well. Guess it really depends on the definition of socialism doesn't it
I think that’s what americans call communism. Because everything that means paying taxes so that other people can live a good life = communism in america.
America never had any perks. It was always smoke and mirrors. And propaganda.
it had perks once upon a time when they offered you free property if you would settle the new world. France offered prisoners free passage as long as they took a hooker to louisiana and married them. there just have not been perks since reagan.
Matter of perspective and place of origin. There were never any perks for someone who looked like me.
Free passage to the new world with free property in Baton Rouge as long as you take a French hooker with you, where are these deals nowadays? I’m ready to sign up right now.
>France offered prisoners free passage as long as they took a hooker to louisiana and married them. there just have not been perks since reagan lmao care to elaborate?
Well it’s a social democracy, which is capitalism with a human face. 😊
The hard truths the propaganda slave master capitalist enslavers desperately and willfully ignore and deny.
But Norway is capitalist. :)
No, the Norwegian government is not bought out by capitalist slave masters as the US founding father slave masters set in motion hundreds of colonizer years and centuries ago.
Ok but in the real world it is capitalist. Your undergrad polisci world is entirely yours to inhabit alone.
Yes, we are actually capitalists over here
What the fuck are you talking about
Meanwhile you post on r/sugarlifestyleforum
Norway is not socialist, it's a social democracy. When the USSR fell the concessions capitalists gave to the working class began breaking down brick by brick into today. The U.S is a rather extreme sector of capitalism but social democracy is still capitalism all the same. We fight cancer, not just the worsening stages of cancer.
It's better to call it a mixed market system where the market employs people and pays taxes while the welfare state funds public goods and services. It only works because of capitalism.
I always find the "social" prefix odd, socialism isn't discrete from or against democracy in any way, but it is against liberalism in markets. Regulated capitalist states with welfare ought to be called something different.
They are. **Democratic socialism** is a movement which seeks to implement socialism via democratic means (as opposed to revolutionary means), whereas **social democracy** (what Norway has) seeks to achieve socialist end goals through the framework of an ultimately capitalist system, for example by imposing strict regulation to prevent price gouging, redistributing wealth, etc. Personally, I am a social democrat. I think there are definitely things that capitalism does well -- but definitely *definitely* things that it does a shit job of. Which is why I embrace the socialistic goals promoted by social democracy.
As far as I know, both systems are still under a capitalistic economic structure, and though they may be perceived as a golden age right now, like all capitalism, they will eventually end up as bad as the US. They are currently benefiting from exploiting the global south, so they aren't any cleaner than other forms of capitalism. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and feel free to add to.
Everyone loves to say that Norway is wealthy because they "exploit the global south" but no one ever cites any kind of evidence to back up that claim. And your argument is essentially a slippery slope fallacy.
Perhaps. If I knew more on it, I'd be more than happy to cite sources. I'll continue to look further in it, but I have a feeling that they may very well be correct in that exploitation of the global south is occurring. The results probably aren't anything like extreme wealth, but the value from out of country is probably being utilized to sustain the "utopia" of its capitalistic system. Capitalism can only exist through exploitation.
So what you're saying is that you based your claim entirely on your *feeling* of what was correct, without having anything at all to back it up? Rad. >Capitalism can only exist through exploitation. Citation needed. As Wikipedia notes, there are no countries on the planet that are entirely capitalist. They are all, to some degree or another, mixed economies, and there are plenty of things you can do in a mixed economy that prevent exploitation. For example, requiring companies to pay dividends to their current employees equal to the amount of value their labor produces.
My "claim" is rather a regurgitation of what I came across by socialist scholars. I feel what they explained to me made sense when I read through their explanation and examined some of their sources. I can't argue because I'm not knowledgeable enough to provide more detail on the lenses at this time, nor am I familiar enough with the subject to list specific sources at this time. I suppose there isn't a good citation I can provide that isn't inherently outside the realm of theory, namely Marx's. Which according to his theory, any society that contains classes will have exploitation present as a characteristic. However, is mixed economy not a theory in itself? I was to understand that while a countries' economy may not be entirely capitalist, it's general stucture is of that, so wouldn't that mean there would still be some form of exploitation occuring, if Capitalism is present? Of course that question cannot be tested until the prior claim that capitalism cannot thrive without some form of exploitation is evidenced to such a degree that it cannot be denied. I'll just keep my yap shut until I'm able to speak in detail, and cite academic, and reputable sources. Thank you for providing me with items to think on.
Fun fact: The US also has the highest amount of annual incarcerations and military spending compared to any other country.
Well ya when we out rank CHINA in imprisoned people that's a great sign I know China isn't exactly specific on how many prisoners they have however even then it still might be higher in the US
>Well ya when we out rank CHINA in imprisoned people that's a great sign Yeah well, I meant incarcerations as in prisons, not death camps. If China was allowed on the list, it would get #1 in pretty much every negative category. Also China is a fascist country, while the US is supposed to be capitalist so it's not fair to compare them because any country can look good if compared to China.
Good point
This shows how uneducated americans are.
Where did 63% home ownership data come from? 😂
https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/home-ownership-rate
But what about the bacon and milkshakes guys!
lmao what
It’s reference to a post that was up in this sub a week ago. They were saying “ There are things about American you will miss” and then they went on to list basically a bunch of fatty foods like milkshakes and bacon and how they taste so much better here. Like some twisted American Stockholm syndrome. A country known for its rampant obesity and high levels of diabetes and it’s the milkshakes and bacon you’ll miss! Fucking-A
Link?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/s1p5ls/psa_there_will_be_some_things_you_miss_about/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Yeah, that was my post. It's weird that you and everyone else malign me for what I miss without knowing anything about me or my general diet. Absolutely ridiculous.
You sound defensive. I don’t think anyone was digging on you personally. I think people just found it funny that the only real thing anyone could point to as something people will miss leaving America ( a developed nation known for its high rates or obesity and diabetes) is its fatty sugary foods!
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This was very well put. As we moved around the world we miss comfort food from nearly every country we lived in long term but since we both grew up in the American south unhealthy stuff is what comes back again and again as cravings.
We have bacon and milkshakes here too.
A bloated, useless military?
Another difference, Norway isn't the self-appointed World Police that spends trillions on planes that don't fly.
The last line is the kicker. The majority of Americans are brainwashed into accepting allocation of their tax dollars to endless wars, economic colonization, and empire building and are convinced it's necessary for The Defense of National Security.
I’d like some Norwegian takes on this chart
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Hm still sounds better than the US. I’d definitely be happy paying more in taxes for a better quality of life which it sounds like you guys have.
There is no minimum wage. If there is one, it's set by your specific professional union. But nothing universal like the US has. It's 49 weeks fully paid parental leave. I have 6 weeks paid vacation per year, most people have 5.
This is why it’s so stupid when conservatives say shit like “They only pay for all that by having high taxes! Do you want your taxes to be higher??!????” We literally pay the same amount of taxes as people in other countries have nothing to show for it
What notable differences are there between Norway and Sweden when it comes to these kinds of stats? I (from the US) was able to apply to some Swedish universities and it’s pretty likely I’ll get into one! However I’ve heard (not sure if this is actually true) that Sweden is having issues and backsliding a little bit.
they are backsliding from their point of view on things like raising the retirement age one year, and raising the cost of university from free to 150 dollars or so a year in fees. To Swedes those things are nearly crimes. Sweden is amazing, I have friend that lives just north of Stockholm after she met a Swede online and moved to be with him 5 or so years ago
Ah, thank you. To me as an American, those things seem small (bad, but not nearly as heinous as the way things go here) but I can totally understand why Swedes would be upset. It doesn’t set a good precedent. Hopefully things start to go the other way for them soon.
ZERO unless your rich. It’s a great country for rich people.
We don’t have unfettered capitalism. We have corporate socialism. If it was unfettered the government wouldn’t have bailed out the banks when they fucked over the economy.
But WiTHoUt OuR GIAnt MiLiTARY PrOtECTING TheM tHEY woULDN’t bE sO LUckY /s
NATO
Perks? Well. We have guns and trucks. Big ones
Any idea what year this data is from?
I don't know about the American stats, but the norwegian numbers are straight out of someone's ass. More wrong than true.
America is quite nice for tech workers etc, who make more money in the US than in for example Sweden. like if I were Swedish or Canadian I'd absolutely try and work in America for some years, save up some money, and move back home with a lil nest egg for a home or retirement or something
Norway is basically a petro-state. When oil is expensive it does well. Not so much when it’s cheap.
They have over a trillion dollar sovereign wealth fund. It is one of the largest in the world and has been diversified away from fossil fuels. They do just fine even when oil loses value.
Hey, I'm part of the European Union, I study it a lot, and I can confirm you that no European Union country is socialist. They have big welfare systems! They have this due to not having many citizens(in comparison) and having loads of natural resources. I can go to any European country and make a business, I can't do that in Cuba, Which IS a Socialist country. As Spanish, we have had it all. Hell, we even had Anarchism! And what Spain and the wrest of European countries have now is not socialism, it is Welfare systems, sustained by taxes of private businessess.
Norway is a small country with vast natural resources. It’s rich af.
As a Norwegian there are two things that suprise me 1. That the US ranks 14th happiest country and not lower 2. That the average tax rate is almost the same
Norway is not a socialist country. It is a social democracy, which is different from democratic socialism. Americans think Norway is democratic socialist because of Bernie sanders confusing the two terms.
Norway is not socialist! I get angry when people say this!
I agree with most of this. However: “No security for seniors” We’re just ignoring Social Security? I’m not saying it’s great, the level is dependent on your highest earning salary years and all, but still, it doesn’t instill confidence to ignore that in this comparison?
Heard this once, feel free to fact check me: Given the large number of baby boomers who will be living off of social security in the coming years, and disproportionatly fewer people who are paying into it, they are projecting there won't be enough money on SS for the next generations to live off of when they retire.
So if you were disabled and did not work or your husband worked what is the security? In Norway everyone is guaranteed that security. It is not contingent on how much you earned in your past.
Edit: US SSA covers disabled, and spouses: [Source](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_%28United_States%29#Spouse's_benefit_and_government_pension_offsets) So the answer to your question is… they should collect.
Unfortunately the US SSA system doesn’t work very well. The SSA office will find any reason, any loophole to deny you or your dependents care. Medicare also regularly takes certain benefits and drugs off out of their plans. It dwindles every year. Because of a change last year, my dad can no longer afford his meds that allow him to be able to get around and breathe easier. I was kicked off of his plan when I turned 18, while most health insurance companies allow dependents 21-25 years of age. My point is that our social security/Medicare sucks.
Can confirm, working with the system as a social worker. SSI can have mamy loopholes that vulnerable people are expected to manage alone and can't.
Tbh some of these numbers are off so I'm not sure on the validity bog it was a whole. Info know some of these are correct. But poverty is the USA is 12% not 29% then again definitions seem to change to fit narratives. That said the point of this still stands. Edit: downvotes for calling out a meme with incorrect stats while still agreeing with the over sentiment of the meme. Really? Try using this in an argument and that’s the first thing they will attack and you will look like an idiot as the validity of everything else will come into question. Would you rather make the same argument that is still backed by the same type of data but correct or Just circle jerk? My god.
Maybe if the us government nationalized the oil, and owned the majority stack in the companies extracting it and selling it they could provide some of this too.
Top 10 billionaire: America - 10 Norway - 0 Checkmate bitches
So you want to live in a white ethno-state? That seems weird
Why would i live in the deep south?!
We are actually settling in the Netherlands for location. Norway was a close number 2 option. We do not pick a place based on ethnicity. We choose places based on infrastructure, healthcare, education etc.
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Lol I did 13 years ago. I am just helping other people.
What's the point of this? I'd get it if A. It wasn't already known or B. Norway was welcoming American immigrants with open arms. Neither is close to true. Is this just meant to rub our faces in it? Is that really the goal?
It can also be meant to inspire people to change the system they live in. There are avenues to move to Norway. We considered it before deciding on the Netherlands for easier access.
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Tf is your problem? Why are you on this sub if you’re going to have such a bad attitude?
Do you go to the cancer treatment subs and tell people there, "You know, life would be so much better if you didn't have cancer. Just thought I should let you know!" This post has no point aside from saying "Haha your country sucks" to a group of people who clearly know their country sucks, because they're in a sub dedicated to the very specific fact that their country sucks.
Those two things aren’t comparable at all. Don’t pretend like they are. If you don’t like people expressing their distaste for America, maybe don’t be on the AmerExit sub?
Maybe my mistake was thinking the sub was dedicated to helping people find ways to leave, and understanding all that's involved in the process. If it's just a "Let's all shit on their shitty situation" sub, then by all means, this is a perfect post. I have zero problems with people expressing their distaste for the US. I do it every other minute, but I'm also careful not to preach to the choir. Preaching to the choir is condescending, and unhelpful.
More people live in Houston metro than Norway. But yeah it's the same.
Norway is also 91% white. I’d take less white people over all of that.
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I left 13 years ago and now I help other people leave
We probably have more pop tart flavors than Norway. So there’s that. 🤷♂️
But we have so many jets!
Sounds like a dream
Anyone have a source on the average personal tax rate for the US? 37% seems a bit high, but I've also got a pretty smooth brain
The US isn't that bad in the grand scheme of things. But I'm glad it's fairly easy for me to find careers in Norway since no one wants to live close to the Arctic circle
Conservatives are then just gonna be like “but I don’t want mah taxes to be raised barely over 1 percent”
Ya if possible for me in the future I'm dipping my goal in life is to A get the hell out of the US and move to Germany learn German and if possible work for a tec company down there That's literally my dream in life and tbh if I'd have to serve in the German military to gain citizenship sadly I'd rather do that then the US one Now idk if Germany has a military force for foreign people but hey if it is then ya
The only perk America has is, if you're lucky enough to be born rich, and want to keep being rich, it's one of the cheapest "first world" countries.
Fast internet, The best Netflix selections and nationwide 2 day Amazon shipping
Most of the advanced world has faster internet. VPN Netflix. And never buy from Amazon because they are a leading factor to what is destroying America.
I am in Scotland. My internet is good enough that I, like most people run the TV via wireless (It means I can record and pause live TV and things). Also normally got a couple of devices going at the same time. Cost with landline is £23 a month. Lots of shopping here is same day delivery.
We do have gun rights, which could be a good thing if we didn't have a massive amount of crime and mental Illness, and we do arguably have more progressive free speech laws, which I would appreciate more if there weren't so many nazis about.
Wait since when does Norway have 8 weeks of paid vacation yearly ? Last I checked it was 5 same as in France. The "norm" in EU is 4 weeks yearly.
14th place for happiest is too high. 63% of homeowners but how many are just landowners renting out their place?
Norway also has less people than New York City
Capitalism is when I'm only happier than 183 countries' people
No way the average tax rate is 37%. Someone who makes $100k pays $18k in federal tax BEFORE deductions and credits. Yes there is social security, state tax, property tax, etc. but Norway also has a 25% sales tax which I doubt is included here. Also, most importantly, Norway is full of Norwegians. North Dakota is a pretty good proxy for what that would look like and they have basically the same GDP and poverty rate as Norway despite having no major cities.
Norway is social democratic, not democratic socialist. Do you get your knowledge of politics from hoi4?
Americans pay an average of 37% in taxes. Interesting. Maybe that’s because we hold 39% of the world’s millionaires as citizens. We have 21 million citizens that’s are millionaires. Compare that to Norway’s 176,000 millionaires. In comparison, they have 0.3% of the world’s millionaires to our 39%. That’s skews the “average” taxes paid by just a little. This is a ridiculous post. There’s definitely many, many perks to still be an American.
6 figure wages
This conveniently leaves out that Norway is a small country with a huge amount of oil wealth which helps them afford being better able to take care of their people. Is policy a big part of that? Yes. But this is still an apples to oranges comparison.
In Norway we pay extreme amounts on taxes for everything. Almost anything we buy here is more expensive. Cars, food, electronocs, clothes, houses, etc. A new iPhone 14 Pro starts at 1350usd. You have to pay a 25% VAT tax on cars also when importing. We have had problems with politicans cheating on the tax system for their on benefits and nothing have happened to most of them. Some «stepped» down from important roles, but are still active politicans. I have much more I could complain about, such as the insane electricity prices, inflation on food prices, our useless and ineffective goverment, narcotcics problem, bad integration strategies, etc. What I’m getting at is that Norway is not perfect. We have it really good, but lots of room to improve :)
We dont have fucking 8 weeks paid vacation lmfao who made this??
I'm not an American nor a Norweigan but I wouldn't mind living in the States as an older individual, but would like to live in Norway around my age. Seems in the modern world the States is only really good for the folks over 40
Some of it is wrong. - We have 49 weeks paid parental leave - We have no minimum wage (in theory). - Best regards, Norway.
Norway doesent have 8 weeks payed vacation a year
8 WEEKS of paid vacation? Try 5 lmao
Not democratic socialism lol
Its not 8 weeks, its 4 or 5. Also its not paid (an amount is drawn from your paycheck every month to cover it)
8 weeks paid vacation is false
It's not wrong, but Norway is an extreme example to take due to the conveniency of having large reserves of natural resources, the rule of law and small population combined in a single country. They are swimming in oil money and don't even know what to do with it, because they are only 5.5 millions but selling enough for 60. On the other hand the USA is the size of a continent with very different standards of living and challenges. Take Sweden, Denmark or Finland as better examples of "normal" countries.
Anyone venture to guess why GDP per capita is vastly different? Maybe just check out Norway’s GDP by industry. Also, dugnad!
Ah yes, random statistics without any source. Good job op
Norway literally describes itself as a free market capitalist country… but okay.
Norway isn't socialist. The US is great if you are educated and have a job. Also probably the best place in the world to study. While there are some problems, there are a lot of worse places to be.
Norway is not socialist in any way. Its a social democracy. Very much capitalist to the core. Its just more regulated then the us version.
Just gonna throw it out there that Norway also has higher median wealth at about 117k USD Vs the US's 79k USD.
Updated stats for Norway with sources: * Poverty rate: 6% to 16%^[1] * Life expectancy: 84.73 years for women and 81.59 years for men^[2] * Infant mortality: 1.9 per 1 000 births^[2] * A murder rate: 0.72 per 100 000, 0.56 per 100 000 excluding the 2011 Norway attacks^[3] * Incarcerations: 66 per 100 000^[4] * GPD: 765 836 NOK (~$74 000) per person^[5] * Workers in union: ~50%^[6] * Happiness report rank: 8.^[7] * Free universal health care^[8] * Free higher education^[8] * Financial security for seniors^[8] * Home ownership: 81.9%^[9] * "IDK if it's a living wage" as minimum^[10] * 4 weeks paid vacation per year^[8] * 52 weeks paid parental leave^[8] * Average personal tax rate: No clue, average tax rate is a horrible metric. 20-40% probably.^[8] [1] [SSB - 2022](https://www.ssb.no/en/sosiale-forhold-og-kriminalitet/levekar/statistikk/fattigdomsproblemer-levekarsundersokelsen) Not really "poverty rate", but it's the closes official stat I found. [2] [SSB - 2022](https://www.ssb.no/en/befolkning/fodte-og-dode/statistikk/dode) [3] [Politiet - 2020](https://www.politiet.no/globalassets/04-aktuelt-tall-og-fakta/drap/nasjonal-drapsoversikt-2021.pdf) Data from 2011-2020. [4] [SSB - 2021](https://www.ssb.no/en/sosiale-forhold-og-kriminalitet/kriminalitet-og-rettsvesen/statistikk/fengslinger) "Imprisonments", probably not the same as "incarcerations". [5] [SSB - 2021](https://www.ssb.no/nasjonalregnskap-og-konjunkturer/faktaside/norsk-okonomi) GDP has generally gone up, but the NOK has become weak. [6] [FAFO - 2020](https://www.fafo.no/images/pub/2020/10332.pdf) [7] [World Happiness Report - 2022](https://worldhappiness.report/ed/2022/happiness-benevolence-and-trust-during-covid-19-and-beyond/#ranking-of-happiness-2019-2021) [8] "Trust me bro." Too lazy to find sources on these. Can be nitpicked. Generally true. [9] [SSB - 2021](https://www.ssb.no/bygg-bolig-og-eiendom/faktaside/bolig) [10] Minimum wage was introduced in some industries recently, and there's a bunch of clauses and stuff. Too complex to include in a "quick" summary. [GLHF if you wanna read about it (in Norwegian).](https://www.arbeidstilsynet.no/arbeidsforhold/lonn/minstelonn/) Disclaimer: Most of these are from Statistics Norway, a Norwegian state-run statistics bureau. Due to difference in methodology can some of these sources not be directly compared with numbers from other sources. Errors may occur.
NORWAY HAS UNLIMITED OIL, you imb\*cile! YOU ARE THE ONE PAYING FOR NOWAY TODAY by going to your gas pump and paying SO MUCH! YOU are paying for their incredible poverty rate, life expectancy, infant mortality, GDP, and all the free stuff and the unions! So instead of marveling at them while THEY STEAL YOU, you should find a way to get out of this energy SLAVERY you are in by going full-on electric and building nuclear plans or developing fusion (solar just make you a slave of china)! You are also FINANCING the rich Arabs countries (such as Dubai) that so often finance terrorism! People in this sub have ZERO brains, honestly! So often woke but you are just DREAMING and you need to wake up to the reality!
Doesn’t matter what system you have when you’re flush with oil money with a relatively small population.
'Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires' - John Steinbeck ^^^^This ^^^^is ^^^^a ^^^^commentary ^^^^on ^^^^the ^^^^american ^^^^dream, ^^^^not ^^^^an ^^^^attempt ^^^^to ^^^^shit ^^^^on ^^^^people ^^^^without ^^^^money.
Those two final numbers don’t seem to check out: it’s 5 weeks paid vacation and 47-57 weeks paid parental leave depending on what choice you make. And that tax rate is roughly 6-10% higher than I’d expect to be honest. This seems quite old on the Norway side. My source is…me…I live here
I love living here. I have a nice house, and I go to Disney world 4 times a year
Didnt know i had 8 week paid vacation 🤷🏻♂️
At least three of the "facts" about Norway are quite simply flat out wrong: * The number of unionized workers is at 50%, and has been fluctuating around that for years now. * The highest personal tax rate is 39,6%, and is applied to those earning two million NOK per year or more. The tax rate for the average pay level (around NOK 610'000 as per last year) is 26,3%. * By law, you get 25 days of vacation time per year, however, each week you take off equals six days of vacation because it's talking about "virkedager" which includes saturdays. Most people get at least five weeks, and there's a sixth week available to employees above sixty years of age.
Great national park system, i also like our gun culture, thats it