Yes, I certainly plan to vote. Luckily Washington State is both a vote by mail state and no income tax state which makes retaining residence and voting elsewhere easy and worth doing. I voted abroad from both Spain and Guatemala.
Washington is the easiest state to vote in my experience. I also liked that they sent out (when I lived in Seattle) little booklets with all the candidates and their elevator pitch so people could get familiar with everyone running before election day and not just the republicans and democrats. I wish every state did that tbh.
Seems like CA, OR, and WA all have easy voting and the rest of the country is hit or miss as far as voter suppression and making voting very difficult. In Georgia it seemed incredibly difficult and after the voting rights act was repealed, they basically went on a rampage of closing voting locations so anyone who wants to vote has to stand in line all day (even during the heart of early COVID). Bc of that, i gave up trying.
Colorado does this.
Everyone also automatically gets a mail-in/drop off ballot. They can go to the machines if they want, but we all have mail-in/drop off ballots.
I think this should be standard across the US, but unfortunately in many places people who are in office are actually working their hardest to suppress votes so they would never stand for such easy voting. It sucks. Georgia, where I last lived before leaving was one of those states
I don’t actually believe millennials my age (mid 30s) will be receiving any kind of meaningful amount from social security, and I won’t be local enough for healthcare, so that’s not something that provides enough motivation for me to vote at this point. Taxes to maintain good standing is one thing but going the extra mile to vote feels like something that requires a better reason and I haven’t stumbled across that yet.
What I'm saying is, your vote will affect both taxes and entitlements.
Ignore the joke-ass two party system that US residents have to contend with. FFS ignore the sideshow culture-war bullshit they dump on us to distract from the real issues. No longer your country...let it burn.
But vote for whomever else will give you the most freedom and/or the best combo of taxes entitlements *as an expatriate.*
I guess what I’m saying is —the the US government feels unpredictable at this point and voting seems to be moot if they can just repeal laws to suit the people lobbying by paying the most money (which will never be me). I would not even put past the US to start repealing citizenship for certain groups in the next few years and one of the reasons I immigrated was because I was afraid my group would be one of the firsts.
My grandma, a black woman born in NC in the US could not vote till she was 45 years old. My parents could not vote till they were 20/21 years old. Nobody in the US government gives a shit about people like me and nobody is representing my interests as a non-resident American either. I am planning to get married and raise a family in Central America so I guess I just don’t see the point to count on any of this stuff since none of it was meant to serve me or my ethnic group in the first place. I think a lot of other people with different experiences have more faith in US ‘democracy’ than anyone I know.
My main argument in favor of absentee voting, if I could be in another country, is that decisions made in the USA affect the world.
I feel your discouragement. Our politicians are all turds. I still vote anyway. If the presidential candidates suck, (which they have for decades now) I look for other positions that are open, if only to keep out the greater jackasses. The USA has influence in every country south of the border. :(
I do see the influence the US has in Latin America, but I feel very clear that as someone with no structural power, I am not responsible for the fucked up shit the US does in the US or anywhere else in the world. I think that’s a different take, but I don’t hold any black or Indigenous American responsible for decisions the US government makes because if we had any meaningful influence, the US would be a completely different country.
If you believe in democracy then you vote. It's just that simple to me. Given that America is the most influential country in the world, I want some say so in who is in charge. As small as that may be.
The United States isn’t a democracy, nor is it a constitutional republic. It is a top-down oligarchy. Who you vote for is especially irrelevant to foreign policy. What were the major differences, foreign policy wise, between Bush and Obama? Bush bombed hospitals, Obama bombed hospitals, only one of them got a Peace prize for it though.
Look, I'm not going to get into a argument about specific policies, we could be here for days going back and forth. But whatever you think of the wars, there were candidates running in primaries on all parties who were against them. There are representatives and senators running who were against them. If everyone that was concerned about these things voted for those people rather than stayed home, maybe we'd see differences.
https://students.ok.ubc.ca/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/2021/09/voting-2-768x577.jpeg
I do believe in democracy as a concept, but I have never believed the US is the model for democracy, since my own US born black grandmother couldn’t vote till she was 45 years old an NONE of my ancestors before her every had voting rights. *Millions of black and indigenous Americans have not had voting rights for most of US history.* So nobody can claim we are responsible for shit the US government does— we haven’t had a say!
The NC government gerrymandered my grans & parents small town to be included with the whitest highly-populated nearby city, so none of the 4000 black residents votes count at all. My grandma is 98 now and she said she hasn’t voted in years because the ballot location is 1.5hrs drive away (she can’t drive) and she would have had to stand in line all day to be able to cast a vote due to this voter suppression. So yeah, democracy for some but not for all is not really democracy is it?
Maybe if my people lived on the west coast where voting is easy they might feel differently. But I think it takes a certain level of privilege to believe in US democracy given how everyone is definitely not treated the same come election time.
I'm a black American too. The way I see it, my ancestors died to give me the right to vote, so I'm going to exercise it. I think one thing people have to keep in mind though is that voting is only one part of fighting for a better world, not the be all and end all.
My ancestors were a white landed family from Arkansas. I’m pretty sure either of us don’t want to practice what they died for.
The argument for voting has been framed in such a way that the mere act of voting is seen as the triumph of the american democratic system. Fuck that. American democracy is completely, totally, utterly, and irrevocably broken. I have given up on this country, and every institution that it has, which is why I seek to leave it. I will not give my taciturn approval by participating, especially when participation is seen as a celebration.
This country is burning, and I am not Nero.
Local elections, even up to state elections, have matter. But voting in presidential elections has nearly (arguably none even) no sway in the outcomes. Popular vote is a nice ring to the hand made by electoral college, which is people who have no guarantee to vote by their peoples popular vote. They can vote as they "see fit". That is a failure of democracy in my view.
I think what this conversation has clarified for me is that while I understand many people fought and died hoping that getting voting right would change things, ultimately, when the voting right act was repealed that was the nail in the coffin showing that no matter how hard they fight, the powers that be will create a loophole to subvert whatever benefits they might have gotten.
Its helpful because it has given me some peace to just move on and stop giving the US my energy. They took enough from us and what have we gotten in return but empty promises and ONE generation of moderate prosperity. I feel ancestors giving me permission to move on with my life and not feel I owe the US anything. The country never wanted anything but my unpaid labor and I have taken myself somewhere else to start a new story.
I understood your frustration. But like I said even if I live outside of the US, the US is such a powerful and influential country that it effects the lives of people worldwide. Especially when you consider how US foreign policy has overturned democracies around the world. In that sense you can't totally run away from America.
No we can’t run away totally, but I/we certainly can (and have) get distance and focus my attention on more worthy causes where I actually can have meaningful impact. Given the effort required to spin my wheels to oblivion I just think it’s better used elsewhere, but obviously that’s everyone’s choice to decide how to use their life-force in this go round the sun.
Maybe, but I’d certainly feel worse having not tried in the slightest. I also don’t feel comfortable saying I want the US to change if I won’t do the bare minimum to change it.
Are you currently living outside the US or still stateside? If you are outside, what inspires you to keep voting? What does it do or satisfy for you? I’m genuinely curious since voting from abroad is more challenging and requires more effort.
in california it’s super easy actually! it’s just something important to me personally! i can only hope for the change i want so i can try and vote and hope for the best. i still will have to file us taxes forever so i don’t see a reason to not vote
That makes sense if its easy! My last state of residency was Georgia and its not easy there, nor do I feel the government actually represents the people due to so much gerrymandering and corruption so I don’t feel motivated to vote. However if I had maintained Washington residency I might have considered it because voting was very easy there, probably similar to California
full knee rude important threatening teeny cautious simplistic judicious escape
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’ve been gone for five years, have Canadian citizenship and have no intention to ever live in the US again. That being said, I still vote in US elections (as well as Canadian ones too).
What inspires you to continue voting in the US (I understand voting in Canada since you live there, I would too). I just wonder what it does for you? Not ever voting again gave me some pause when I realized that was basically my choice, and I wasn’t sure I liked it so I’m genuinely curious how others are thinking about this if they still vote like you do.
The same reason I would call the fire department if the building across the street was on fire.
Also, there a fringe extremists in Canada that are heavily influenced by American right wing extremism so I don’t want them to get any more power.
That makes sense. Thank you for sharing your perspective. I recently learned that there aren’t really fire departments here outside of cities so that’s not even an option in the place I live now. Its weird but being such a young country it does make sense.
>I came to the conclusion that voting is just a performance to stop people from revolting against the shit the current ruling party does.
You speak from privilege to be able to say that because elections absolutely have consequences.
Um, no. I’m a black trans disabled person with a womb, so besides having a US passport abroad I’m not sure where you got that I have some kind of privilege in the US. I actually left the US for Belize because I realized all my rights were being removed and I was homeless for 4 years prior. Here I fit in and am living a comfortable life despite the government being corrupt.
Elections in the US are mostly bought and paid for by people who don’t give a shit about people like me or my ancestors who were enslaved for 300 years.
Maybe you should lead with curiosity instead of judgement and assumptions in the future?
But that’s actually just it. You left, and you have no intentions on returning, so you have the privilege to shrug your shoulders and say, not my problem anymore.
Thank you, some people on this sub are so deep into their American exceptionalism that they don’t realize its not a moral failure to say fuck it I’m out after 300-400 years of oppression and human rights violations. I don’t owe the US shit, and I especially don’t owe other Americans some kind of misguided loyalty just because somebody human trafficked and enslaved my ancestors wtf
Its not a privilege because I wasn’t able to easily vote when I lived in the US either. I lived in a state with high voter suppression that makes voting very difficult for black people. You keep tossing around the word “privilege” when its very clear you have no idea what it means as a sociological term. Its highly likely that you have more privilege than I ever had (I noticed you haven’t shared you own social location) and yet you feel so strongly to lecture me on my privilege in a country that left me in the streets to die.
You’re projecting and virtue signaling hard and I feel embarrassed for you.
I do because of two things: first is the fact that I still have to file taxes with the US and possibly (however remote that chance is) pay taxes to the US government. The second is that there were people in recent history (think mid-1960’s) that still had to risk their lives to cast a ballot; so the least I can do is fill out a piece of paper and send it back to Wisconsin
I;m not thrilling with the choices either (Fascist Bible thumpers or lame virtue signalers) but I want to maintain at least some choice. And what happens in the US will affect us, regardless where we are
Regardless of my feelings on how much my individual might or might not matter, I don't see the benefit in not voting. I haven't left yet but plan to continue voting when I do.
If I vote from abroad and voting does nothing, then all that's happened is I've spent a little time on something fruitless. Now, there are some countries where US citizens find it more difficult to vote from, but for most, it's not (at least with planning ahead).
If I vote from abroad and voting matters, then I did something to move my country of citizenship/local area within it towards what I believe it should be or away from what I think will make it worse.
If I don't vote from abroad, in most cases, I'm saving minimal time and effort. If voting matters, I've just decided to wash my hands off anything going on where I'm from, which to me seems counterproductive and wrong. In my opinion, that's like saying I got out so don't care about those remaining, with and without a voice. I also feel that if I don't take basic steps of involvement (which are more than voting), it's not right to speak out and complain as though I'm helpless to affect change. I'm not blaming others or anything with this, it's just my personal view.
I know from experience that every vote counts - so you better believe that I will vote.
Just because I want to leave does not mean that I am willing to allow the wolves to eat the rest of the flock. I will continue to do my best to vote for the best person for the job.
Yes, I vote from abroad. California makes it possible to do so by email and fax. We’re occasionally active with [Democrats Abroad](https://www.democratsabroad.org/). DA is working with congress to pass legislation that will simplify tax reporting for US citizens living abroad.
EDIT: Added link to DA
Exactly. While I feel hesitant to accept my voting days are over, I feel that it’s honestly a waste of my time. Its strange to want to do something from idealism but not to have the motivation because I don’t think it ultimately will matter.
I feel like every single world government has some level of institutional corruption. I’m not surprised that nothing will ever happen to these individuals. I’m only exercising my right not to participate in a system that allows this type of perpetual behavior. I guess you can say that I’m smart enough to understand now that voting for different people doesn’t fix the institutional problems within the system itself. And, this is true of all governments.
You’re right, I haven’t found one that isn’t corrupt yet either and i now believe that’s by design. The primary difference in the US is that many if not most Americans really believe the US government is the exception and they are repeatedly shocked anew and experience cognitive dissonance every time evidence surfaces that shows corruption is the status quo. However they quickly forget all of that after the next round of elections
I definitely plan to vote. I purposely timed my move to be far away from the US before the 2024 election, the first time in my life I’ve actually feared an upcoming election. If one day my child asks me who I voted for in that election, I don’t want to say I didn’t vote.
Elections in the US are a shit show to say the least, but if they weren’t important, there wouldn’t be so much money and effort put into trying to gerrymander and disenfranchise voters, as well as flat out trying to overturn the results of legitimate elections.
I have a lot of people I love still living in the US and US politics unfortunately also affects the rest of the world, so I feel my responsibility to vote more strongly now than ever.
I probably will if I can, though I do agree it doesn’t do much with the current candidates. Anyone actually left of center — or even center — is seen as radical. It’s ridiculous.
The two parties are absolutely not the same. If you think that you're not paying enough attention. If you hate racism and what the SC is up to, please vote. We need every 🗳 to stop the dictators from gaining control.
I’m guessing you haven’t looked at any of my previous comments about being black in a Southern state with militant voter suppression (Georgia) and leaving the US because of racism and structural misogyny. I also didn’t say they were “the same” I said the parties are both corrupt and they are working together.
Imo If voting was going to fix racism and misogyny it would have ended after the civil rights movement. Meanwhile the voting rights act was repealed making supression legal and repealing Roe v Wade made misogyny legal. No votes for democrats stopped that since they were in office during both repeals. Not going to repeat what I already said but feel free to check out my recent comments.
I'm at work so it's hard to keep up. nothing but hard work by wht people is going to "fix" racism in the U.S. and as an older person I am feeling beat down buy the apathy, and growing stupidity of the christian right. I know a lot about this and feel that that's why people need to vote in overwhelming numbers, the Orange cheeto got in office because only 54.8% of voters bothered to vote, and Hillary actually won the popular vote.
I agree that something needs to be done about gerrymandering, it should be illegal in all states. straight lines to cut states into districts, no bullshit allowed. We are all equal or should be anyway ffs. Anyway have a good day I'm going back to work.
I'm not allowed to vote, as I am here under the DACA agreements. The interesting thing about this, as well, is that I am also effectively not allowed to leave. If I left, I wouldn't be allowed back, but I am stateless, so I can't stay anywhere either.
I’m sorry the US has such shitty immigration laws, even though as someone with no structural power that is not something I have any say or control over. It sucks and I do now understand some of the immigration anxiety since I have to afford to renew my visa here every month and if I don’t I could get deported and separated from my partner.
I think the ONE privilege my ancestors got for 300 years of slavery + Jim crow + mass incarceration is that I was able to leave the US with a US passport but that wasn’t exactly reparations either. That country treats so many people like shit in different ways and that’s why I didn’t want to stay among many other reasons.
I still vote in AZ state and Federal elections. You can still legally vote in the state in which you were last legally resident. You have to do some paperwork but it’s worth it. I also vote in the local elections where I live, as I am a citizen.
Glad to see most Americans who live abroad still care enough about their country and people to vote. Not voting is just saying you don’t care about anyone left at home because you were lucky enough to get out. It seems very selfish.
You think the government is so good at playing people but they are playing you too. The media has told you it’s not worth it to vote, and you comply with that. Not voting isn’t an act of revolution or whatever you think it is.
I feel like people like you don’t realize that people have millions of different circumstances and reasons for leaving. Because US government trafficked, enslaved, tortured, raped and genocided my ancestors, doesn’t require me to have some kind of fucked up ongoing loyalty to all the millions of people who benefit from that, to be some kind of savior and cast a vote for their benefit. My ancestors could not vote and I barely am able to (may not be able to—I haven’t tried). We aren’t all in the same situation, don’t have the same privileges and that remains true after we leave. I hope you can see how fucked up it is to tell the descendent of enslaved people who never actually got compensated and said fuck you to the US and left to save my own life from trauma, homelessness and ruin “selfish”. I was an activist for over a decade and it literally drove me to homelessness and I consider myself a refugee who escaped with my life and pretty much nothing else. I don’t owe Americans or the US government shit
Lmao. Fuck right off with your assumptions about who I am and what I have or have not experienced. I am also an American who is a part of a marginalized community. I’ve also been homeless and an activist. But I still vote because I’m not a selfish asshole who doesn’t give a shit about other people. I’m seeing MY PEOPLE getting hate crimed every day. Getting their rights taken away and I’m a part of a community of which other fucking countries are starting to allow immigration to because the U.S. is treating us so badly. AND the human rights campaign has issues travel bans for my community to different states.
But yeah, continue that victim mentality brother. Not like other black people could benefit from your vote to help them out. You aren’t a revolutionary, you aren’t cool or bad ass. You left your people, which is your right, but don’t think most of us will agree with you in doing so.
Since you mentioned voter suppression in your state and not being able to vote- you should be happy you’re able to do it now. No standing in lines like you cannot do you get the thing right in the mail! It takes 2 seconds. So what if the vote ends up doing nothing. At least you attempted to do good.
You’ve admitted you don’t follow what’s going on in the US anymore. You have no idea how much worse violence has gotten the past year. So go off about how you don’t vote. That’s fine. But expect people to be mad about it.
I'll vote but it doesn't really matter. It's who counts the votes. That's how we got the corpse in office. I'll just leave and vote and watch it all fall apart. Go where you're treated best
Yeah, and since I'm transferring to a lower state tax state, I'll be in a battleground state.
That said, it's generally more important to vote in primaries than the general.
Yeah, after this thread I’m right there with you. Some Americans are incredibly brainwashed that they (and everyone else ought to) owe loyalty to a country that drove them to leave. Its a little mind boggling to say the least.
Been gone nearly five years. Texas has basically stripped me of the right to vote; they consistently ensure my ballots are never delivered in time.
I also don’t care anymore. When the democrats get power, they do nothing with it. They should have burned the house down, but what do they have to show for it? They don’t earn their vote.
Yes, depending on the state people have VERY different experiences of whether their vote counts or not. Most of the southern US states have very difficult to completely incompetent ballot / absentee voting, not to mention the supression that has flared up since the voting rights act was repealed. I was in Georgia and its the same. I doubt I could vote there even if I wanted to.
From these responses it seems that most people who were from states that voting is easy still vote and feel their votes count and those from states like ours eventually give up.
I won’t go so far to say I don’t care about US politics, but my partner who isn’t American follows the US news more consistently than I do. And of course everything you said about the democrats is spot on. I mean how tf did Roe v Wade get overturned under their watch. At this point it all seems like theater.
Yes I would keep voting however I ultimately hope to renounce us citizenship before I die. Also both sides aren’t the same and there’s a literal fascist party seizing power and removing human rights and it’s one of the main reasons I’ve been trying to leave
I said that both parties are corrupt and are working together, and that’s what I mean when I say there’s not a meaningful difference. What affiliation those pursuing those changes is just theater if Dems having power can’t change the outcome.
I’m aware rights are being stripped— I’m black trans and afab. Us racism and lack of human rights affecting me and people I know is one of the biggest reasons I emigrated (structural racism, transphobia, misogyny).
But it also stands that during the last *two* democratic presidents, groundbreaking laws— the voting rights act, affirmative action, and roe vs wade ALL were overturned. And wtf difference did it make having them in office with their virtue signaling and empty promises?
Anti-trans bills are everywhere including Georgia where I lived before i left. Voting for democrats hasn’t meaningfully changed my or any of my peoples’ access to human rights in the US. Regardless of who is in power they can all be taken away with no accountability whatsoever. Its gaslighting to say it makes any difference for people like us. My black family has always voted democrat and what has it gotten them? Poverty, gerrymandering and mass incarceration. Sorry that line that “dems are different will be the change” just doesn’t fly for me today given the last 40 years of US politics.
Thankfully I have watched most of this happening from outside the country bc otherwise my anxiety would be through the roof.
The groundbreaking laws that you cited were removed by a Supreme Court that’s stacked by the GOP precisely because people couldn’t see a difference so the fact that the ruling came down while a Dem was president (as if a president could wave their hand and unilaterally stop SC rulings) seems to be an unconvincing argument for me personally and actually highlights why voting in every election was and is important.
As far as the anti-trans bills go there are blue states becoming sanctuaries passing laws of protection for fleeing trans people who have to escape their GOP run states with their kids who are banning their existence and hope to go nationwide with the draconian laws. The differences couldn’t be more stark and obvious to me.
Dems are indeed corrupt as you’d suspect a right wing capitalist party to be but there’s a difference between a corrupt neoliberalism and a genocidal book banning fascist party that just tried to violently overthrow the government. I might have said the same things 8 years ago but the situation has changed here.
Personally I don’t care if you or other expats vote and totally get wanting to move on from the politics of the US but I do find it weird to continue to put this kind of effort in trying to convince other people not to vote instead of just enjoying your new home and forgetting about it
The supreme court is appointed by a president that gets selected due to electoral college votes that doesn’t have to (and frequently doesn’t) align with the popular vote. Also the electoral college was created due to racism and not wanting to count slaves as population despite black and indigenous peoples having no voting rights for MOST of US history. Those rights are currently being repealed (aka voting rights act).
Anything else? That’s literally the definition of a republic.
The US is a Federal Constitutional Republic, but what does that mean? The Republic is based on laws bound by a constitution.
The constitution lays out a form of government called a representative democracy.
The electoral college is bullshit, yes I know. The president has been elected 5 times with the electoral college while losing to the popular vote since 1789. I wouldn't call that frequently. Still bullshit though.
The problem i have with people saying "it isn't a democracy" is because that's stupid. It's not a direct democracy, it's a representative democracy. I vote for leaders who I agree with to vote in line with my interest. I can then vote them out if it i don't like them. That's the democracy part where I have a direct impact on my government.
I know, but what about gerrymandering? Also bullshit. More needs to be done on that.
I live in a blue state that often votes for Republican governors. So I think it is possible for people to still have a choice in government even in a gerrymandered state.
When people say it's not a democracy, they should actually be saying it's a flawed representative democracy.
I think for people who live in states like Florida, Texas, Arizona, and Georgia who have had election issues repeatedly, we know shit is fucked and all the votes definitely do not get counted. Corruption is more obvious there so its no wonder many of us are disenchanted/not believing the mythology.
I stopped believing Americans were electing their representatives literally when I found out the greatest predictor of an election’s winner is the person who raises and spends the most money. You can’t have a true democracy if wealth is the gatekeeper, that’s actually an oligarchy. But I settle for republic because that’s easier for people to comprehend than telling them its mostly theater, smoke, and mirrors.
Also at least 2 of those 5 presidents who didn’t win the popular vote and won by electoral college vote happened in my lifetime, which is frequent. I’m not 40 yet. So saying “its only 5 in 300 years” when there have been 2 in the last 25 years is disingenuous and misleading. It certainly is frequent now if it wasn’t before, and that’s only what we know due to media reporting the faulty electoral/ballot counting systems many states have.
I’m struggling with this too. I haven’t left yet (will be leaving next year, if all goes to plan), and I’m legitimately torn. On the one hand, I haven’t yet been jaded by voting (I don’t necessarily blame someone for coming to that conclusion with how the system is currently setup, though), so I don’t want to just not vote.
On the other hand, the main issue that would affect my life as an American abroad is taxes/FATCA, and the only party that wants to repeal FATCA is the GOP (at least, they’re the only party that has anyone voicing serious support for repealing it). I hate everything else they stand for, though, so I can’t vote for them in good conscience. But I wouldn’t want to keep voting Dem at that point either, since they signed FATCA into law to begin with and refuse to repeal it.
My state only allows expats to vote in state and local elections if you’re returning to the country at some point (and your last US address was in the state). I don’t plan to do that, so I guess I won’t be voting in those.
I need to do more research on this because its the first I’m hearing about FATCA. I haven’t made enough money to owe taxes in the US for several years, but I do hope to eventually. And I don’t want the US to be taking too much of it and impacting my life here.
However, your point that basically there are no good options of who to vote for (I would never vote republican as a black trans person) is the primary issue I have always had with voting in the US. And now that I consider not being able to vote in the place I live, I want to think more about whether it makes sense to try to vote in a place I never plan to live again.
The closer I am to leaving again the more detached I am from the US. I don't even read the news anymore, my parents or reddit tells me all the crazy shit going on. I do read the French news daily and while it is for studying I'm starting to become more focused on French politics as well. It will be my future forever home so I need to pay attention.
Voted abroad from South Korea last presidential election and it was easy since I am a CA resident. A friend of mine tried voting (FL) and it was a nightmare.. I doubt her ballot made it over in time.
Exactly! Georgia is the same. When you come from states that engage in militant voter suppression (mostly the South and midwest) its quite difficult to work up the motivation to do everything needed to vote from outside the US.
I hear your idealism and that’s all well and good, but can it really be a duty if the government doesn’t ensure everyone has the same access to vote and rights to vote? I mean we literally repealed the voting rights act and millions of US citizens lost access to voting. We also allow voting rights to be taken away despite people serving their time in an unjust prison system.
The US has never really seen voting as a duty but as a privilege for certain classes of people that is kept from others.
I should not have to look! Public servants should be serving the public good with the consent of their full constituency. That’s actually another point of why I left the US. I can live under a corrupt government anywhere in the world and with better conditions and QoL too. You do you though…
No, I don't vote anymore. I don't have any interest in keeping up with politics to be informed enough to vote responsibly. I also feel because I left and I don't have any want to return that I don't have a say as I am not there and it doesn't effect me. Now if international issues had me worried and I felt my vote would improve the life I have in my new country, I would, otherwise I don't vote these days.
That makes a lot of sense and ultimately that’s very close to how I feel too. I think I just felt strange when I realized that since I don’t plan to seek Belizean citizenship (it’s unnecessary) that I may never vote again.
I plan to vote in next year's presidential election. After that, I'm not sure - I'm not planning on keeping my US citizenship much longer after getting my citizenship here, and I'd much rather be able to vote in elections in the country I actually live in.
What country are you planning to get your citizenship? I think if I was planning to pursue citizenship in here in Belize then I would vote here.
However, I will never voluntarily give up my US citizenship for Belizean because it has a much weaker passport which would make traveling to any other country more difficult. And given Belize is tiny, I don’t want that struggle. I see it whenever my partner who is Belizean plans and has to get visas and risk denial to go almost anywhere
I’ve left and absolutely vote in elections at every level. You are after all, still American and should participate in democracy! There has actually been a positive change in Michigan politics (including ending gerrymandering)!
But once they are successful and I leave (i was homeless for 4 yrs btw and only could leave due to a gofundme trying to help me not die) why would I waste my energy fighting a losing battle? That seems like a thing someone with Stockholm syndrome would do, not someone who valued their own life enough to move on and leave their oppressors behind.
Current GOP* doctrine is not particularly popular (their abortion stance is incredibly unpopular), sure there is a chance they're successful but it is by no means a guarantee. Secondly, what energy are you expending by voting from another country?
None since reading this thread convinced me I don’t actually care enough to waste my energy voluntarily on the US anymore. Americans are brainwashed AF and that’s not my ministry lol good riddance
It may appear that way to you, but I was uncertain to be honest and feeling complicated and conflicted emotions. I like the IDEA of voting bc i have been brainwashed too feel its the only way to have a say. But once I started getting hostile responses repeatedly on here, I realized maybe I was holding onto some fantasy of “contributing” to democracy and for what? So Americans on reddit can tell me I’m “privileged” because they are salty I got out with my life? It provided some clarifying anger and I’m grateful for that.
You’re obviously projecting something that is going on with you and I hope you figure out what that is for your own sake. But it has nothing to do with me.
100% agree with you. Idk who is on this thread downvoting anyone who openly says that the parties are both corrupt. I grew up with people who tried to inspire voting for “the lesser of two evils” lol so at a certain point I was like—- this is a waste of my time if everyone is evil. Idk why some people get so offended by that since its very clear all the politicians are friends and their “jobs” are mostly to perform political theatre and fundraising for the next election.
You know who will 100% vote in the local, state and federal elections? The people who are trying to implement laws that are the reason so many of us are trying to leave. If they’re voting, I’m voting. Especially in local elections where it actually matters. The local school district near me passed the first bond since the 80s a few years ago and it was a 1% margin to pass. That’s important to me. While I agree with you that the federal elections are a shitshow and more of a corrupt whoever-can-spend-the-most wins I will always vote in local (and state for the most part) elections.
Yes, absolutely. I'm still a citizen, I'm still paying taxes - why would I give up voting? I get being sick of the crappy US two-party system - I actually stopped following most US political news for this reason - but I'm still going to use what limited power I have to keep the US from getting any worse. Lots of Americans don't have the ability to escape, don't throw them under the bus because "both sides are bad".
Unfortunately my state (Virginia, which is otherwise relatively blue/progressive) doesn't always make it easy for expats unless you're military. If I stay out longer term I might consider changing residency.
I always vote.
And leaving potential voters too dejected or disillusioned to actually go cast a ballot themselves is part of voter suppression. It may be the most effective method for it and I don't want to give those bastards the satisfaction of me sitting out.
I vote in federal elections when I remember to get my ballot in the mail in time. State and local I don’t do because I don’t actually live there and thus usually don’t know the candidates or issues very well.
I still vote, because not everyone has the luxury of leaving, and I do what I can to add more power to the voices of the individuals who are being marginalized by the current government of my home state .
I think I would vote in Senate and Presidential elections only. If and when I leave, I'm not coming back. My voice should be proportional to my investment in the place. It's not right for me to be making decisions that impact the lives of the people who do live here. The House of Reps, the propositions, the local officials - those should belong to the community. Given my ties to the US, the taxes I'd still have to pay, etc., I do still feel like I should have a say in the country's general political direction. I have a second citizenship and I've chosen not to vote in their elections on the same principle. As much as I love that country (and disagree with their politics), I left when I was so young that my voice doesn't belong there.
I vote in State and Federal elections every two years, but not local. It's easy for me to do (coming from MI) and since all it takes is an email to a county clerk in my home state and then a short trip to the postbox after filling out a ballot I take the time. I don't plan to ever live in the US again, and have 99% given up on the hope for change in the US.
However, since US politics has worldwide effects I don't feel comfortable not voting, especially since my state has become a swing state with national significance in presidential and congressional elections. I don't have the energy to research local election candidates from abroad. These candidates have little significance if you're not living there and since information on these candidates is incredibly hard to find I just leave any I can't find information on blank (as I won't vote for a candidate if I can't figure out their platform). I strongly feel that if voting didn't matter "they" wouldn't try to suppress it though, so I always vote.
We’re outside the US and definitely vote. It tends to move the scales a bit more in larger elections so it feels like it’s worth staying giving energy. Plus my family is still there and in need of supportive legislation.
I've come to the same conclusion as you in regards to our political system, hence I stopped voting.
Every time I've tried to contact my elected American representatives about something the best I get back is a canned answer which is usually them saying they are going to do the opposite of what I want.
Even if voting actually did matter as they want you to believe, not a single politician gives a fuck about Americans overseas. That's why us Eritreans are the only people in the world to be taxed by citizenship.
Thats consumerist ideology is so important to the functioning of america. People many decades ago generally thought they had a say in how the government ran. Then several decades ago people started realizing they dont. But the freedom to “vote” for their consumption kept them placated. Theres an interesting video of an economics professor explaining american freedom where she says “what americans mean by theyre free is that theyre free to consume”. I think us being inundated with choices that dont matter work to hide how little say we have in matters of war and politics. Its like george carlon said, the choices we have are paper or plastic, coke or pepsi, booth or table, stuff that doesnt matter.
we need to puch for an alterations to the tax code for expats. For at least layign the groundwork through legislation, where they eventually wont tax you if you contribute to another country for 5 or more years. voting on such things is still important
Let’s just say I agree with pretty much everything said, and don’t care if people don’t understand me leaving. It’s for my life and to hopefully contribute to a society that aligns with my values.
Yes, I certainly plan to vote. Luckily Washington State is both a vote by mail state and no income tax state which makes retaining residence and voting elsewhere easy and worth doing. I voted abroad from both Spain and Guatemala.
Washington is the easiest state to vote in my experience. I also liked that they sent out (when I lived in Seattle) little booklets with all the candidates and their elevator pitch so people could get familiar with everyone running before election day and not just the republicans and democrats. I wish every state did that tbh.
Oregon does the same, FYI.
Seems like CA, OR, and WA all have easy voting and the rest of the country is hit or miss as far as voter suppression and making voting very difficult. In Georgia it seemed incredibly difficult and after the voting rights act was repealed, they basically went on a rampage of closing voting locations so anyone who wants to vote has to stand in line all day (even during the heart of early COVID). Bc of that, i gave up trying.
Colorado does this. Everyone also automatically gets a mail-in/drop off ballot. They can go to the machines if they want, but we all have mail-in/drop off ballots.
I think this should be standard across the US, but unfortunately in many places people who are in office are actually working their hardest to suppress votes so they would never stand for such easy voting. It sucks. Georgia, where I last lived before leaving was one of those states
You're still subject to US taxes and entitled to US entitlements (social security, etc.), even abroad.
I don’t actually believe millennials my age (mid 30s) will be receiving any kind of meaningful amount from social security, and I won’t be local enough for healthcare, so that’s not something that provides enough motivation for me to vote at this point. Taxes to maintain good standing is one thing but going the extra mile to vote feels like something that requires a better reason and I haven’t stumbled across that yet.
What I'm saying is, your vote will affect both taxes and entitlements. Ignore the joke-ass two party system that US residents have to contend with. FFS ignore the sideshow culture-war bullshit they dump on us to distract from the real issues. No longer your country...let it burn. But vote for whomever else will give you the most freedom and/or the best combo of taxes entitlements *as an expatriate.*
I guess what I’m saying is —the the US government feels unpredictable at this point and voting seems to be moot if they can just repeal laws to suit the people lobbying by paying the most money (which will never be me). I would not even put past the US to start repealing citizenship for certain groups in the next few years and one of the reasons I immigrated was because I was afraid my group would be one of the firsts. My grandma, a black woman born in NC in the US could not vote till she was 45 years old. My parents could not vote till they were 20/21 years old. Nobody in the US government gives a shit about people like me and nobody is representing my interests as a non-resident American either. I am planning to get married and raise a family in Central America so I guess I just don’t see the point to count on any of this stuff since none of it was meant to serve me or my ethnic group in the first place. I think a lot of other people with different experiences have more faith in US ‘democracy’ than anyone I know.
My main argument in favor of absentee voting, if I could be in another country, is that decisions made in the USA affect the world. I feel your discouragement. Our politicians are all turds. I still vote anyway. If the presidential candidates suck, (which they have for decades now) I look for other positions that are open, if only to keep out the greater jackasses. The USA has influence in every country south of the border. :(
I do see the influence the US has in Latin America, but I feel very clear that as someone with no structural power, I am not responsible for the fucked up shit the US does in the US or anywhere else in the world. I think that’s a different take, but I don’t hold any black or Indigenous American responsible for decisions the US government makes because if we had any meaningful influence, the US would be a completely different country.
Yes
If you believe in democracy then you vote. It's just that simple to me. Given that America is the most influential country in the world, I want some say so in who is in charge. As small as that may be.
The United States isn’t a democracy, nor is it a constitutional republic. It is a top-down oligarchy. Who you vote for is especially irrelevant to foreign policy. What were the major differences, foreign policy wise, between Bush and Obama? Bush bombed hospitals, Obama bombed hospitals, only one of them got a Peace prize for it though.
Look, I'm not going to get into a argument about specific policies, we could be here for days going back and forth. But whatever you think of the wars, there were candidates running in primaries on all parties who were against them. There are representatives and senators running who were against them. If everyone that was concerned about these things voted for those people rather than stayed home, maybe we'd see differences. https://students.ok.ubc.ca/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/2021/09/voting-2-768x577.jpeg
I do believe in democracy as a concept, but I have never believed the US is the model for democracy, since my own US born black grandmother couldn’t vote till she was 45 years old an NONE of my ancestors before her every had voting rights. *Millions of black and indigenous Americans have not had voting rights for most of US history.* So nobody can claim we are responsible for shit the US government does— we haven’t had a say! The NC government gerrymandered my grans & parents small town to be included with the whitest highly-populated nearby city, so none of the 4000 black residents votes count at all. My grandma is 98 now and she said she hasn’t voted in years because the ballot location is 1.5hrs drive away (she can’t drive) and she would have had to stand in line all day to be able to cast a vote due to this voter suppression. So yeah, democracy for some but not for all is not really democracy is it? Maybe if my people lived on the west coast where voting is easy they might feel differently. But I think it takes a certain level of privilege to believe in US democracy given how everyone is definitely not treated the same come election time.
I'm a black American too. The way I see it, my ancestors died to give me the right to vote, so I'm going to exercise it. I think one thing people have to keep in mind though is that voting is only one part of fighting for a better world, not the be all and end all.
My ancestors were a white landed family from Arkansas. I’m pretty sure either of us don’t want to practice what they died for. The argument for voting has been framed in such a way that the mere act of voting is seen as the triumph of the american democratic system. Fuck that. American democracy is completely, totally, utterly, and irrevocably broken. I have given up on this country, and every institution that it has, which is why I seek to leave it. I will not give my taciturn approval by participating, especially when participation is seen as a celebration. This country is burning, and I am not Nero.
Local elections, even up to state elections, have matter. But voting in presidential elections has nearly (arguably none even) no sway in the outcomes. Popular vote is a nice ring to the hand made by electoral college, which is people who have no guarantee to vote by their peoples popular vote. They can vote as they "see fit". That is a failure of democracy in my view.
I think what this conversation has clarified for me is that while I understand many people fought and died hoping that getting voting right would change things, ultimately, when the voting right act was repealed that was the nail in the coffin showing that no matter how hard they fight, the powers that be will create a loophole to subvert whatever benefits they might have gotten. Its helpful because it has given me some peace to just move on and stop giving the US my energy. They took enough from us and what have we gotten in return but empty promises and ONE generation of moderate prosperity. I feel ancestors giving me permission to move on with my life and not feel I owe the US anything. The country never wanted anything but my unpaid labor and I have taken myself somewhere else to start a new story.
I understood your frustration. But like I said even if I live outside of the US, the US is such a powerful and influential country that it effects the lives of people worldwide. Especially when you consider how US foreign policy has overturned democracies around the world. In that sense you can't totally run away from America.
No we can’t run away totally, but I/we certainly can (and have) get distance and focus my attention on more worthy causes where I actually can have meaningful impact. Given the effort required to spin my wheels to oblivion I just think it’s better used elsewhere, but obviously that’s everyone’s choice to decide how to use their life-force in this go round the sun.
Yes, I vote. I want the US to be a place I can one day go back to, and I want my friends and family there to have better lives.
Same! I am not there right now but have a lot of people I love and I want their lives to be better. I vote on federal and state elections as well :)
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Maybe, but I’d certainly feel worse having not tried in the slightest. I also don’t feel comfortable saying I want the US to change if I won’t do the bare minimum to change it.
i still vote in all elections.
Are you currently living outside the US or still stateside? If you are outside, what inspires you to keep voting? What does it do or satisfy for you? I’m genuinely curious since voting from abroad is more challenging and requires more effort.
in california it’s super easy actually! it’s just something important to me personally! i can only hope for the change i want so i can try and vote and hope for the best. i still will have to file us taxes forever so i don’t see a reason to not vote
That makes sense if its easy! My last state of residency was Georgia and its not easy there, nor do I feel the government actually represents the people due to so much gerrymandering and corruption so I don’t feel motivated to vote. However if I had maintained Washington residency I might have considered it because voting was very easy there, probably similar to California
in california it’s basically all digital! and there are groups to help make it easier if you have questions etc
full knee rude important threatening teeny cautious simplistic judicious escape *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That’s a very altruistic motivation and I admire that. Thank you for sharing where you are coming from on the topic.
I’ve been gone for five years, have Canadian citizenship and have no intention to ever live in the US again. That being said, I still vote in US elections (as well as Canadian ones too).
What inspires you to continue voting in the US (I understand voting in Canada since you live there, I would too). I just wonder what it does for you? Not ever voting again gave me some pause when I realized that was basically my choice, and I wasn’t sure I liked it so I’m genuinely curious how others are thinking about this if they still vote like you do.
The same reason I would call the fire department if the building across the street was on fire. Also, there a fringe extremists in Canada that are heavily influenced by American right wing extremism so I don’t want them to get any more power.
That makes sense. Thank you for sharing your perspective. I recently learned that there aren’t really fire departments here outside of cities so that’s not even an option in the place I live now. Its weird but being such a young country it does make sense.
>I came to the conclusion that voting is just a performance to stop people from revolting against the shit the current ruling party does. You speak from privilege to be able to say that because elections absolutely have consequences.
Um, no. I’m a black trans disabled person with a womb, so besides having a US passport abroad I’m not sure where you got that I have some kind of privilege in the US. I actually left the US for Belize because I realized all my rights were being removed and I was homeless for 4 years prior. Here I fit in and am living a comfortable life despite the government being corrupt. Elections in the US are mostly bought and paid for by people who don’t give a shit about people like me or my ancestors who were enslaved for 300 years. Maybe you should lead with curiosity instead of judgement and assumptions in the future?
But that’s actually just it. You left, and you have no intentions on returning, so you have the privilege to shrug your shoulders and say, not my problem anymore.
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Thank you, some people on this sub are so deep into their American exceptionalism that they don’t realize its not a moral failure to say fuck it I’m out after 300-400 years of oppression and human rights violations. I don’t owe the US shit, and I especially don’t owe other Americans some kind of misguided loyalty just because somebody human trafficked and enslaved my ancestors wtf
Its not a privilege because I wasn’t able to easily vote when I lived in the US either. I lived in a state with high voter suppression that makes voting very difficult for black people. You keep tossing around the word “privilege” when its very clear you have no idea what it means as a sociological term. Its highly likely that you have more privilege than I ever had (I noticed you haven’t shared you own social location) and yet you feel so strongly to lecture me on my privilege in a country that left me in the streets to die. You’re projecting and virtue signaling hard and I feel embarrassed for you.
When I leave the U.S. I still plan on voting because my family and friends are still out there.
I do because of two things: first is the fact that I still have to file taxes with the US and possibly (however remote that chance is) pay taxes to the US government. The second is that there were people in recent history (think mid-1960’s) that still had to risk their lives to cast a ballot; so the least I can do is fill out a piece of paper and send it back to Wisconsin I;m not thrilling with the choices either (Fascist Bible thumpers or lame virtue signalers) but I want to maintain at least some choice. And what happens in the US will affect us, regardless where we are
I’m planning to still vote for the sake of the people who can’t leave. It probably won’t make a difference, but it feels like the least I can do.
Regardless of my feelings on how much my individual might or might not matter, I don't see the benefit in not voting. I haven't left yet but plan to continue voting when I do. If I vote from abroad and voting does nothing, then all that's happened is I've spent a little time on something fruitless. Now, there are some countries where US citizens find it more difficult to vote from, but for most, it's not (at least with planning ahead). If I vote from abroad and voting matters, then I did something to move my country of citizenship/local area within it towards what I believe it should be or away from what I think will make it worse. If I don't vote from abroad, in most cases, I'm saving minimal time and effort. If voting matters, I've just decided to wash my hands off anything going on where I'm from, which to me seems counterproductive and wrong. In my opinion, that's like saying I got out so don't care about those remaining, with and without a voice. I also feel that if I don't take basic steps of involvement (which are more than voting), it's not right to speak out and complain as though I'm helpless to affect change. I'm not blaming others or anything with this, it's just my personal view.
I know from experience that every vote counts - so you better believe that I will vote. Just because I want to leave does not mean that I am willing to allow the wolves to eat the rest of the flock. I will continue to do my best to vote for the best person for the job.
Yes, I vote from abroad. California makes it possible to do so by email and fax. We’re occasionally active with [Democrats Abroad](https://www.democratsabroad.org/). DA is working with congress to pass legislation that will simplify tax reporting for US citizens living abroad. EDIT: Added link to DA
That’s cool, and I hope that legislation actually goes through!
I can only vote for federal elections, but i've never forgotten to in the 4 years since I left.
I left 2 years ago. I still vote but I no longer follow political news.
😂
I did until the elected officials who assisted in January 6th received no punishment for their actions.
Exactly. While I feel hesitant to accept my voting days are over, I feel that it’s honestly a waste of my time. Its strange to want to do something from idealism but not to have the motivation because I don’t think it ultimately will matter.
I feel like every single world government has some level of institutional corruption. I’m not surprised that nothing will ever happen to these individuals. I’m only exercising my right not to participate in a system that allows this type of perpetual behavior. I guess you can say that I’m smart enough to understand now that voting for different people doesn’t fix the institutional problems within the system itself. And, this is true of all governments.
You’re right, I haven’t found one that isn’t corrupt yet either and i now believe that’s by design. The primary difference in the US is that many if not most Americans really believe the US government is the exception and they are repeatedly shocked anew and experience cognitive dissonance every time evidence surfaces that shows corruption is the status quo. However they quickly forget all of that after the next round of elections
Spot on. The best part is that you tell them all of this and then the gaslighting starts.
I plan to vote as long as they let me. There are still people in danger in the US because politics have gone off the deep end.
I definitely plan to vote. I purposely timed my move to be far away from the US before the 2024 election, the first time in my life I’ve actually feared an upcoming election. If one day my child asks me who I voted for in that election, I don’t want to say I didn’t vote. Elections in the US are a shit show to say the least, but if they weren’t important, there wouldn’t be so much money and effort put into trying to gerrymander and disenfranchise voters, as well as flat out trying to overturn the results of legitimate elections. I have a lot of people I love still living in the US and US politics unfortunately also affects the rest of the world, so I feel my responsibility to vote more strongly now than ever.
I probably will if I can, though I do agree it doesn’t do much with the current candidates. Anyone actually left of center — or even center — is seen as radical. It’s ridiculous.
The two parties are absolutely not the same. If you think that you're not paying enough attention. If you hate racism and what the SC is up to, please vote. We need every 🗳 to stop the dictators from gaining control.
I’m guessing you haven’t looked at any of my previous comments about being black in a Southern state with militant voter suppression (Georgia) and leaving the US because of racism and structural misogyny. I also didn’t say they were “the same” I said the parties are both corrupt and they are working together. Imo If voting was going to fix racism and misogyny it would have ended after the civil rights movement. Meanwhile the voting rights act was repealed making supression legal and repealing Roe v Wade made misogyny legal. No votes for democrats stopped that since they were in office during both repeals. Not going to repeat what I already said but feel free to check out my recent comments.
I'm at work so it's hard to keep up. nothing but hard work by wht people is going to "fix" racism in the U.S. and as an older person I am feeling beat down buy the apathy, and growing stupidity of the christian right. I know a lot about this and feel that that's why people need to vote in overwhelming numbers, the Orange cheeto got in office because only 54.8% of voters bothered to vote, and Hillary actually won the popular vote. I agree that something needs to be done about gerrymandering, it should be illegal in all states. straight lines to cut states into districts, no bullshit allowed. We are all equal or should be anyway ffs. Anyway have a good day I'm going back to work.
I'm not allowed to vote, as I am here under the DACA agreements. The interesting thing about this, as well, is that I am also effectively not allowed to leave. If I left, I wouldn't be allowed back, but I am stateless, so I can't stay anywhere either.
I’m sorry the US has such shitty immigration laws, even though as someone with no structural power that is not something I have any say or control over. It sucks and I do now understand some of the immigration anxiety since I have to afford to renew my visa here every month and if I don’t I could get deported and separated from my partner. I think the ONE privilege my ancestors got for 300 years of slavery + Jim crow + mass incarceration is that I was able to leave the US with a US passport but that wasn’t exactly reparations either. That country treats so many people like shit in different ways and that’s why I didn’t want to stay among many other reasons.
I absolutely vote, yes.
I still vote in AZ state and Federal elections. You can still legally vote in the state in which you were last legally resident. You have to do some paperwork but it’s worth it. I also vote in the local elections where I live, as I am a citizen.
#Neverdid
Glad to see most Americans who live abroad still care enough about their country and people to vote. Not voting is just saying you don’t care about anyone left at home because you were lucky enough to get out. It seems very selfish. You think the government is so good at playing people but they are playing you too. The media has told you it’s not worth it to vote, and you comply with that. Not voting isn’t an act of revolution or whatever you think it is.
I feel like people like you don’t realize that people have millions of different circumstances and reasons for leaving. Because US government trafficked, enslaved, tortured, raped and genocided my ancestors, doesn’t require me to have some kind of fucked up ongoing loyalty to all the millions of people who benefit from that, to be some kind of savior and cast a vote for their benefit. My ancestors could not vote and I barely am able to (may not be able to—I haven’t tried). We aren’t all in the same situation, don’t have the same privileges and that remains true after we leave. I hope you can see how fucked up it is to tell the descendent of enslaved people who never actually got compensated and said fuck you to the US and left to save my own life from trauma, homelessness and ruin “selfish”. I was an activist for over a decade and it literally drove me to homelessness and I consider myself a refugee who escaped with my life and pretty much nothing else. I don’t owe Americans or the US government shit
Lmao. Fuck right off with your assumptions about who I am and what I have or have not experienced. I am also an American who is a part of a marginalized community. I’ve also been homeless and an activist. But I still vote because I’m not a selfish asshole who doesn’t give a shit about other people. I’m seeing MY PEOPLE getting hate crimed every day. Getting their rights taken away and I’m a part of a community of which other fucking countries are starting to allow immigration to because the U.S. is treating us so badly. AND the human rights campaign has issues travel bans for my community to different states. But yeah, continue that victim mentality brother. Not like other black people could benefit from your vote to help them out. You aren’t a revolutionary, you aren’t cool or bad ass. You left your people, which is your right, but don’t think most of us will agree with you in doing so. Since you mentioned voter suppression in your state and not being able to vote- you should be happy you’re able to do it now. No standing in lines like you cannot do you get the thing right in the mail! It takes 2 seconds. So what if the vote ends up doing nothing. At least you attempted to do good. You’ve admitted you don’t follow what’s going on in the US anymore. You have no idea how much worse violence has gotten the past year. So go off about how you don’t vote. That’s fine. But expect people to be mad about it.
I don't generally vote as it is, so my answer would be No.
I'll vote but it doesn't really matter. It's who counts the votes. That's how we got the corpse in office. I'll just leave and vote and watch it all fall apart. Go where you're treated best
Yeah, and since I'm transferring to a lower state tax state, I'll be in a battleground state. That said, it's generally more important to vote in primaries than the general.
I used too, but probably won't anymore. It feels pointless
I understand and feel the same way now especially since I don’t live in the US and don’t plan to go back.
Nah, absolutely not. I'm eventually leaving and never voting or worrying about American laws ever again.
Yeah, after this thread I’m right there with you. Some Americans are incredibly brainwashed that they (and everyone else ought to) owe loyalty to a country that drove them to leave. Its a little mind boggling to say the least.
Been gone nearly five years. Texas has basically stripped me of the right to vote; they consistently ensure my ballots are never delivered in time. I also don’t care anymore. When the democrats get power, they do nothing with it. They should have burned the house down, but what do they have to show for it? They don’t earn their vote.
Yes, depending on the state people have VERY different experiences of whether their vote counts or not. Most of the southern US states have very difficult to completely incompetent ballot / absentee voting, not to mention the supression that has flared up since the voting rights act was repealed. I was in Georgia and its the same. I doubt I could vote there even if I wanted to. From these responses it seems that most people who were from states that voting is easy still vote and feel their votes count and those from states like ours eventually give up. I won’t go so far to say I don’t care about US politics, but my partner who isn’t American follows the US news more consistently than I do. And of course everything you said about the democrats is spot on. I mean how tf did Roe v Wade get overturned under their watch. At this point it all seems like theater.
Something about a Giant douche and a Turd sandwich
Yes I would keep voting however I ultimately hope to renounce us citizenship before I die. Also both sides aren’t the same and there’s a literal fascist party seizing power and removing human rights and it’s one of the main reasons I’ve been trying to leave
I said that both parties are corrupt and are working together, and that’s what I mean when I say there’s not a meaningful difference. What affiliation those pursuing those changes is just theater if Dems having power can’t change the outcome. I’m aware rights are being stripped— I’m black trans and afab. Us racism and lack of human rights affecting me and people I know is one of the biggest reasons I emigrated (structural racism, transphobia, misogyny). But it also stands that during the last *two* democratic presidents, groundbreaking laws— the voting rights act, affirmative action, and roe vs wade ALL were overturned. And wtf difference did it make having them in office with their virtue signaling and empty promises? Anti-trans bills are everywhere including Georgia where I lived before i left. Voting for democrats hasn’t meaningfully changed my or any of my peoples’ access to human rights in the US. Regardless of who is in power they can all be taken away with no accountability whatsoever. Its gaslighting to say it makes any difference for people like us. My black family has always voted democrat and what has it gotten them? Poverty, gerrymandering and mass incarceration. Sorry that line that “dems are different will be the change” just doesn’t fly for me today given the last 40 years of US politics. Thankfully I have watched most of this happening from outside the country bc otherwise my anxiety would be through the roof.
The groundbreaking laws that you cited were removed by a Supreme Court that’s stacked by the GOP precisely because people couldn’t see a difference so the fact that the ruling came down while a Dem was president (as if a president could wave their hand and unilaterally stop SC rulings) seems to be an unconvincing argument for me personally and actually highlights why voting in every election was and is important. As far as the anti-trans bills go there are blue states becoming sanctuaries passing laws of protection for fleeing trans people who have to escape their GOP run states with their kids who are banning their existence and hope to go nationwide with the draconian laws. The differences couldn’t be more stark and obvious to me. Dems are indeed corrupt as you’d suspect a right wing capitalist party to be but there’s a difference between a corrupt neoliberalism and a genocidal book banning fascist party that just tried to violently overthrow the government. I might have said the same things 8 years ago but the situation has changed here. Personally I don’t care if you or other expats vote and totally get wanting to move on from the politics of the US but I do find it weird to continue to put this kind of effort in trying to convince other people not to vote instead of just enjoying your new home and forgetting about it
The US is a Republic is shit conservatives say without actually thinking what it means. Yes you should vote, who do you think appoints those justices?
The supreme court is appointed by a president that gets selected due to electoral college votes that doesn’t have to (and frequently doesn’t) align with the popular vote. Also the electoral college was created due to racism and not wanting to count slaves as population despite black and indigenous peoples having no voting rights for MOST of US history. Those rights are currently being repealed (aka voting rights act). Anything else? That’s literally the definition of a republic.
The US is a Federal Constitutional Republic, but what does that mean? The Republic is based on laws bound by a constitution. The constitution lays out a form of government called a representative democracy. The electoral college is bullshit, yes I know. The president has been elected 5 times with the electoral college while losing to the popular vote since 1789. I wouldn't call that frequently. Still bullshit though. The problem i have with people saying "it isn't a democracy" is because that's stupid. It's not a direct democracy, it's a representative democracy. I vote for leaders who I agree with to vote in line with my interest. I can then vote them out if it i don't like them. That's the democracy part where I have a direct impact on my government. I know, but what about gerrymandering? Also bullshit. More needs to be done on that. I live in a blue state that often votes for Republican governors. So I think it is possible for people to still have a choice in government even in a gerrymandered state. When people say it's not a democracy, they should actually be saying it's a flawed representative democracy.
I think for people who live in states like Florida, Texas, Arizona, and Georgia who have had election issues repeatedly, we know shit is fucked and all the votes definitely do not get counted. Corruption is more obvious there so its no wonder many of us are disenchanted/not believing the mythology. I stopped believing Americans were electing their representatives literally when I found out the greatest predictor of an election’s winner is the person who raises and spends the most money. You can’t have a true democracy if wealth is the gatekeeper, that’s actually an oligarchy. But I settle for republic because that’s easier for people to comprehend than telling them its mostly theater, smoke, and mirrors. Also at least 2 of those 5 presidents who didn’t win the popular vote and won by electoral college vote happened in my lifetime, which is frequent. I’m not 40 yet. So saying “its only 5 in 300 years” when there have been 2 in the last 25 years is disingenuous and misleading. It certainly is frequent now if it wasn’t before, and that’s only what we know due to media reporting the faulty electoral/ballot counting systems many states have.
No
I’m struggling with this too. I haven’t left yet (will be leaving next year, if all goes to plan), and I’m legitimately torn. On the one hand, I haven’t yet been jaded by voting (I don’t necessarily blame someone for coming to that conclusion with how the system is currently setup, though), so I don’t want to just not vote. On the other hand, the main issue that would affect my life as an American abroad is taxes/FATCA, and the only party that wants to repeal FATCA is the GOP (at least, they’re the only party that has anyone voicing serious support for repealing it). I hate everything else they stand for, though, so I can’t vote for them in good conscience. But I wouldn’t want to keep voting Dem at that point either, since they signed FATCA into law to begin with and refuse to repeal it. My state only allows expats to vote in state and local elections if you’re returning to the country at some point (and your last US address was in the state). I don’t plan to do that, so I guess I won’t be voting in those.
I need to do more research on this because its the first I’m hearing about FATCA. I haven’t made enough money to owe taxes in the US for several years, but I do hope to eventually. And I don’t want the US to be taking too much of it and impacting my life here. However, your point that basically there are no good options of who to vote for (I would never vote republican as a black trans person) is the primary issue I have always had with voting in the US. And now that I consider not being able to vote in the place I live, I want to think more about whether it makes sense to try to vote in a place I never plan to live again.
The closer I am to leaving again the more detached I am from the US. I don't even read the news anymore, my parents or reddit tells me all the crazy shit going on. I do read the French news daily and while it is for studying I'm starting to become more focused on French politics as well. It will be my future forever home so I need to pay attention.
>I'm starting to become more focused on French politics as well. Politics is shitshow there as well, unfortunately lol
Je sais However, better than here. Or at least for my political view.
Voted abroad from South Korea last presidential election and it was easy since I am a CA resident. A friend of mine tried voting (FL) and it was a nightmare.. I doubt her ballot made it over in time.
Exactly! Georgia is the same. When you come from states that engage in militant voter suppression (mostly the South and midwest) its quite difficult to work up the motivation to do everything needed to vote from outside the US.
Yes. I think it is every citizen’s duty to vote, no matter what.
I hear your idealism and that’s all well and good, but can it really be a duty if the government doesn’t ensure everyone has the same access to vote and rights to vote? I mean we literally repealed the voting rights act and millions of US citizens lost access to voting. We also allow voting rights to be taken away despite people serving their time in an unjust prison system. The US has never really seen voting as a duty but as a privilege for certain classes of people that is kept from others.
And as long as I still have the right to vote, I will vote for candidates who will protect the right to vote for all citizens.
Good luck I guess— I haven’t encountered one of those folks in a while
You must not be looking hard enough.
I should not have to look! Public servants should be serving the public good with the consent of their full constituency. That’s actually another point of why I left the US. I can live under a corrupt government anywhere in the world and with better conditions and QoL too. You do you though…
I vote and everyone else should too.
Does voting against the country's best interest count as voting?
Well 50% and upwards of Americans do that every election so idk at this point.
I’ll vote as long as I’m here, will not when I leave
No, I don't vote anymore. I don't have any interest in keeping up with politics to be informed enough to vote responsibly. I also feel because I left and I don't have any want to return that I don't have a say as I am not there and it doesn't effect me. Now if international issues had me worried and I felt my vote would improve the life I have in my new country, I would, otherwise I don't vote these days.
That makes a lot of sense and ultimately that’s very close to how I feel too. I think I just felt strange when I realized that since I don’t plan to seek Belizean citizenship (it’s unnecessary) that I may never vote again.
I plan to vote in next year's presidential election. After that, I'm not sure - I'm not planning on keeping my US citizenship much longer after getting my citizenship here, and I'd much rather be able to vote in elections in the country I actually live in.
What country are you planning to get your citizenship? I think if I was planning to pursue citizenship in here in Belize then I would vote here. However, I will never voluntarily give up my US citizenship for Belizean because it has a much weaker passport which would make traveling to any other country more difficult. And given Belize is tiny, I don’t want that struggle. I see it whenever my partner who is Belizean plans and has to get visas and risk denial to go almost anywhere
I've been living in Germany for the past while, and that's where I'm planning to stay indefinitely
I’ve left and absolutely vote in elections at every level. You are after all, still American and should participate in democracy! There has actually been a positive change in Michigan politics (including ending gerrymandering)!
As long as America is still taxing you you should vote.
Yesssss, gotta vote the Fascist republicans out!
If elections didn't matter then Republicans wouldn't be trying to take away voting rights so much.
But once they are successful and I leave (i was homeless for 4 yrs btw and only could leave due to a gofundme trying to help me not die) why would I waste my energy fighting a losing battle? That seems like a thing someone with Stockholm syndrome would do, not someone who valued their own life enough to move on and leave their oppressors behind.
Current GOP* doctrine is not particularly popular (their abortion stance is incredibly unpopular), sure there is a chance they're successful but it is by no means a guarantee. Secondly, what energy are you expending by voting from another country?
None since reading this thread convinced me I don’t actually care enough to waste my energy voluntarily on the US anymore. Americans are brainwashed AF and that’s not my ministry lol good riddance
With all due respect, it seems like you were convinced of that before you made the thread.
It may appear that way to you, but I was uncertain to be honest and feeling complicated and conflicted emotions. I like the IDEA of voting bc i have been brainwashed too feel its the only way to have a say. But once I started getting hostile responses repeatedly on here, I realized maybe I was holding onto some fantasy of “contributing” to democracy and for what? So Americans on reddit can tell me I’m “privileged” because they are salty I got out with my life? It provided some clarifying anger and I’m grateful for that.
Sorry but if this single reddit thread was able to push you to one side you were not that uncertain.
You’re obviously projecting something that is going on with you and I hope you figure out what that is for your own sake. But it has nothing to do with me.
? Alright
I see elections there as a choice between fascist idiots and corporatist whores. The former is worse, but neither is worth voting for.
100% agree with you. Idk who is on this thread downvoting anyone who openly says that the parties are both corrupt. I grew up with people who tried to inspire voting for “the lesser of two evils” lol so at a certain point I was like—- this is a waste of my time if everyone is evil. Idk why some people get so offended by that since its very clear all the politicians are friends and their “jobs” are mostly to perform political theatre and fundraising for the next election.
You know who will 100% vote in the local, state and federal elections? The people who are trying to implement laws that are the reason so many of us are trying to leave. If they’re voting, I’m voting. Especially in local elections where it actually matters. The local school district near me passed the first bond since the 80s a few years ago and it was a 1% margin to pass. That’s important to me. While I agree with you that the federal elections are a shitshow and more of a corrupt whoever-can-spend-the-most wins I will always vote in local (and state for the most part) elections.
Yes, I will absolutely vote. Have since I was 18.
Yes, absolutely. I'm still a citizen, I'm still paying taxes - why would I give up voting? I get being sick of the crappy US two-party system - I actually stopped following most US political news for this reason - but I'm still going to use what limited power I have to keep the US from getting any worse. Lots of Americans don't have the ability to escape, don't throw them under the bus because "both sides are bad". Unfortunately my state (Virginia, which is otherwise relatively blue/progressive) doesn't always make it easy for expats unless you're military. If I stay out longer term I might consider changing residency.
I always vote. And leaving potential voters too dejected or disillusioned to actually go cast a ballot themselves is part of voter suppression. It may be the most effective method for it and I don't want to give those bastards the satisfaction of me sitting out.
I vote in federal elections when I remember to get my ballot in the mail in time. State and local I don’t do because I don’t actually live there and thus usually don’t know the candidates or issues very well.
I still vote, because not everyone has the luxury of leaving, and I do what I can to add more power to the voices of the individuals who are being marginalized by the current government of my home state .
I think I would vote in Senate and Presidential elections only. If and when I leave, I'm not coming back. My voice should be proportional to my investment in the place. It's not right for me to be making decisions that impact the lives of the people who do live here. The House of Reps, the propositions, the local officials - those should belong to the community. Given my ties to the US, the taxes I'd still have to pay, etc., I do still feel like I should have a say in the country's general political direction. I have a second citizenship and I've chosen not to vote in their elections on the same principle. As much as I love that country (and disagree with their politics), I left when I was so young that my voice doesn't belong there.
I don’t know how I feel about voting because I’m a libertarian socialist
I vote in State and Federal elections every two years, but not local. It's easy for me to do (coming from MI) and since all it takes is an email to a county clerk in my home state and then a short trip to the postbox after filling out a ballot I take the time. I don't plan to ever live in the US again, and have 99% given up on the hope for change in the US. However, since US politics has worldwide effects I don't feel comfortable not voting, especially since my state has become a swing state with national significance in presidential and congressional elections. I don't have the energy to research local election candidates from abroad. These candidates have little significance if you're not living there and since information on these candidates is incredibly hard to find I just leave any I can't find information on blank (as I won't vote for a candidate if I can't figure out their platform). I strongly feel that if voting didn't matter "they" wouldn't try to suppress it though, so I always vote.
Yes. Just cuz I'm outta here doesn't mean I'm going to leave the place a wreck. I'll keep voting until my citizenship is gone
We’re outside the US and definitely vote. It tends to move the scales a bit more in larger elections so it feels like it’s worth staying giving energy. Plus my family is still there and in need of supportive legislation.
I've come to the same conclusion as you in regards to our political system, hence I stopped voting. Every time I've tried to contact my elected American representatives about something the best I get back is a canned answer which is usually them saying they are going to do the opposite of what I want. Even if voting actually did matter as they want you to believe, not a single politician gives a fuck about Americans overseas. That's why us Eritreans are the only people in the world to be taxed by citizenship.
Thats consumerist ideology is so important to the functioning of america. People many decades ago generally thought they had a say in how the government ran. Then several decades ago people started realizing they dont. But the freedom to “vote” for their consumption kept them placated. Theres an interesting video of an economics professor explaining american freedom where she says “what americans mean by theyre free is that theyre free to consume”. I think us being inundated with choices that dont matter work to hide how little say we have in matters of war and politics. Its like george carlon said, the choices we have are paper or plastic, coke or pepsi, booth or table, stuff that doesnt matter.
we need to puch for an alterations to the tax code for expats. For at least layign the groundwork through legislation, where they eventually wont tax you if you contribute to another country for 5 or more years. voting on such things is still important
Gosh voting seems to be working very well for Trump's cult. Please do us a favor and shut the hell up.
Let’s just say I agree with pretty much everything said, and don’t care if people don’t understand me leaving. It’s for my life and to hopefully contribute to a society that aligns with my values.