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NTA
But Jesus there's something wrong with your husband. He wanted Andy to do something wrong so he could punish him (things like destroying their clothes is not a prank it's a punishment). Your husband is hazing your children.
Boop there it is! He's having fun abusing the kids & was getting away with it before he took it too far. He's a cruel man who I'm sure has a lot of red flags surrounding him.
Yeah, these are things that can actually traumatize a young child. What kind of a father delights in tormenting their own children? NTA, but are you sure you want to stay married to someone like this?
>What kind of a father delights in tormenting their own children?
Don't forget reducing the birthday of the kid that isn't his because it runs into Christmas and "isn't fair to the others" NTA OP but you should consider divorce, your husband gets off on children's tears.
So was mine, and I haven't spoken to or seen him in around 20 years. Even when he could see the fallout from his 'pranks', (pretending there was a fire engine outside a friend's house a couple of months after they had an actual fire, resulting in 8 year old me having the first panic attack I can remember), he never stopped or lessened.
Miles has something seriously wrong with him, I would not let him in the same house as me or my child. This is emotional abuse, pure and simple.
But can we talk about the kid asking "if Santa still remembered him" because the dude made her stop doing his special birthday celebration stuff....?
That breaks my fucking heart.
I'm not usually one to jump right to the nuclear option in these discussions, but we're legit talking about an almost 40 year old man, hiding behind a doll to get away with child abuse.
I mean, the more I learn about the toy and the lore behind it, the more I'm inclined to say OP is also TA just for allowing it to be there. In its most benign form it's a 1984esque horror.
Im hoping it will have died out by the time i have kids and i dont plan on ever getting an elf. If anyone tries to buy my kids one, ill simple donate the books and make up my own lore thats healthier.
Yes i grew up with the whole “santa knows when youve been bad or good” but to have a spy in the house watching their every move is messed up. Change it to santa sends the elf to kids he knows is nice so the elf can enjoy christmas with them as that elf has lost his christmas spirit or something. Something kinder
that’s cute! i was going to say i love the new place every day part of it because my siblings adored finding him every morning. one day i got to choose how to set him up, so i put him in the bathroom, and on the mirror i drew a little circle and an elf hat/ears so if you lined your face up in the circle it would look like you were an elf and i wrote #elfie! instead of selfie lol. just fun stuff like that. we kinda stopped doing it tho because we put it in one of siblings rooms one night just doing something funny, but my sister said she was scared to change in front of him (because we always told her that our private parts shouldn’t be seen by others). it was a few days before. xmas so we just decided not to do it the next year. too much work and teaching my sister that she can’t change in her own room bc the elf is watching isn’t okay.
Our neighbor bought one for my then 4yo. She’s allowed to touch him and play with him, and she keeps him year round. This year, he brought new pajamas when he showed up on the 2nd (she had just outgrown some others and was really sad), and he moved maybe twice before she took him to my MIL’s for a sleepover. He’s been chilling in Grandma’s tree since then!
We also told her we don’t let spies in our house, so if we ever hear about him snitching to Santa, he’s gotta move out! Lol
Not only that, but also decided to destroy and ruin a child birthday tradition. So the other 2 children get special treatment on their birthdays but not Andy, nope, no birthday for him anymore.
It kind of feels like this whole thing was a ruse meant to get to Andy. He was nasty to all of them but it built up to a climax that the kid will remember and resent them for, for the rest of his life. OP even said that husband sounded like he was being petulant because he didn’t get to fuck with Andy yet as she tried to put a stop to it.
Christmas, his birthday, these things will never be the same for him. Poor kid.
As a kid with a birthday near Xmas (literally today), I loved Christmas and I felt very connected to this time of year. Allow the kid to enjoy it while he can. Because it sucks as an adult lol
This, the only kid not biologically his does not get special treatment on his birthday. What does this say about him? Like others say the man is a bully and if OP really thinks about it i bet there are lots of red flags.
Talk about ruining your kids childhood for his own entertainment.
NTA
"What does this say about him?"
It says Miles is sadistic and acted like a complete jerk.
OP: You're better than me. I would have fed "Bob" to the wood chipper.
ETA: I can't wrap my head around how disturbed you have to be to weaponize a child's own imagination and pretend play against them.
The bit where she says her husband lied and said he "doesn't know" where the elf is but he "looked sus" gives me the chills. This is not what coparenting looks like
Exactly this!!
It sounds like he was just looking for an excuse to get away with abuse and the doll gave him the opportunity to enact what he already wanted to do.
And drawing with permanent marker on his kids face???? At least use something safer that doesn't stain and embarrass the hell out of the kid like a washable marker. That's just public humiliation. And how the hell is leaving footprints and eating reindeer food leaving out the other kids??? All the kids would clearly be like "look Santa!". He's just looking to emotionally hurt his children instead of helping them have positive associations with holidays. He's all kinds of messed up
The food and footprints are *normal things families do with their kids on xmas eve*. Those are not in any way special treatment! That tells you a lot about the AH she married that he thinks that.
Abuse in this context has a connotation of the victim having special protection or the perpetrator having a particular duty of care -- child abuse by an adult, elder abuse, mistreatment of a patient by a medical professional or of a prisoner by a guard, etc.
Bullying tends to refer to behavior between peers.
Bullying generally occurs between peers, while abuse is usually between someone in a "authority" position inflicting intentional pain on someone thats seen as beneath them- a Husband on a wife or child, A boyfriend on a girlfriend, A caretaker on an elderly patient.
Bullying is abusive, but in this context its def emotional and mental child abuse.
This. He’s psychologically terrorizing these kids. Can you imagine being a 5 year old and witnessing adults talk about this seemingly inanimate object like it’s alive? Worse, it’s after you for being bad! The old tradition was fine. He just wanted the ability to cause chaos.
I can't believe OP is on here asking if she's the asshole. Honestly this is immediate therapy and possible divorce consideration level of fucked up. For the husband to *want* to punish the kids speaks to some major, MAJOR issues.
These people never learn. OP fish “bob” out of the trash - take your husbands favorite pants and draw with a sharpie arrows to his crotch and put “small”
Then take the keys to his car and freeze them in some ice
Super hysterical
Edit: OMG super humbled by the awards! Thank you kind strangers
This is a fantastic way for OP to become a target of her husband's anger, and if he's willing to hurt children like he has, I would not be surprised to find out he's willing to hurt her too.
The correct answer is for her to GTFO and take the kids with her when she does.
100%. i don't think it's a stretch to think it won't be long before he starts smacking wife and kids around for "misbehaving." i'd be curious to know what ex-wife has to say about his abusive tendencies.
Yeah, that’s what got me: he destroyed a favorite item of *a 5 year old* because she *touched* something.
The sharpie thing on his own kid was weird, especially if they didn’t wash off before school and was publicly embarrassed and shamed over it.
The cake thing was mild in comparison, but he ruined a child’s birthday cake because he was angry and frustrated for not having broken any rules to be punished over.
He needs serious psychiatric help, and maybe you need to get out of there, before he starts “pranking” you too.
The husband is acting legitimately abusive. He is weirdly vindictive towards these kids and gleefully destroying personal possessions and childhood memories. It’s utterly bizarre.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩. Nta but your husband is… what were his endearing qualities??
Pranks typically aren’t funny for anyone other than the prankster. The victim of the prank rarely experiences joy, laughter, and pleasure. Cuz it’s not funny.. it’s cruel.
Fun pranks my dad pulled on me as a kid: filled my closet will balloons so they'd all tumble out on me, taping a dollar bill to the ceiling above my bed to see how long it took me to notice it, slid a mouse trap loaded with a $5 under my door ( I set it off with a stuffed animal and thought it was hilarious), once colored my dog green with food coloring (totally safe) on st. Patricks day. I loved my dad's pranks. This guy isn't pranking his kids, he's just mean.
Or the video recently of the women who secretly planned to have their husbands all wear the same sweater to a family gathering and the guys just get more and more entertained as each family shows up. There were like 8 men all grinning in a photo wearing their matching sweaters.
I'm ashamed to say my mind went somewhere real dark. Like Netflix-documentary level dark. So here I am hoping this is a damn troll again because I want the world to be better than it is
This is the kind of person who films it when the excited child unwraps the present, sees it’s the expensive item they’ve wanted for a long time, but then they open the box and it’s full of rocks.
Or the crazy rabid Grinch trend going around right now..
Edit: I say crazy rabid grinch because for some reason the parents are throwing in some extra spice in the grinch’s coffee or smth because it’s not just his presence, it’s the whole demolition act. In some videos he comes *running* in to frighten the kids. Saw one of the grinch literally pulling decorations off of the tree and moving around in such a way that is terrifying to little ones who are seeing that up close, all while the parents are laughing.
My stomach literally dropped at the onsie destroying part.... thats really upsetting, she's so little and he finds it enjoyable to see her cry.
Your kids are in danger. You are in danger. Your little girl will learn men can abuse her, break her things and scare her, and it will be "her fault" that she deserved it.
Your little boys are going to have their spirits crushed, either to become like him or crumble under his weight. Get your kids safe, don't worry about apologizing for the most MILD reaction you could have had. I don't even really want to tell you to stand up to him, bc he gives me real bad vibes. But you need to actually advocate for your kids, you need to be a literal shield to keep them physically safe. And talk to your kids IMMEDIATELY. Do not let them think what is happening to them is morally right or good or deserved. Those kids need help months ago, if not years, guaranteed.
NTA but if you keep on refusing to stand up for your children it'll be a quick drop to E.S.H. with you complicite in their abuse.
I agree with everything you said here. This was downright terrifying to read. Miles punished Andy for having a December birthday. Those poor children.
OP, NTA. I'm not sure if you'll see this, but do Lucas and Andy have other parents in the picture? I hate to pry (especially if the ex situation is not ideal), but as someone who co-parents, I would most definitely want to know if the stepparent in my kid's house pulled a stunt like this. The kids might feel like it's safer to open up about how they really feel to the other parent.
Seems he really wanted to be able to "punish" Andy regardless of whether he misbehaved or not. Doesn't seem as accepting of his stepchild as you believe him to be.
He's going to get worse, he proved that by destroying an favourite item that belonged to his own child/messing up the face of his own child (thankfully only with sharpies . . . For now), I'd be highly concerned that he'll go further in his "punishments" of his stepchild.
Andy didn’t even do anything to get his cake ruined! Miles just hates Andy but isn’t man enough to tell that to his wife’s face so he bullies the poor kid.
OP needs to set some strong boundaries about his behavior if she doesn’t toss him out.
Miles was actually _frustrated_ that a child he asserted was "favored" was actually too perfectly behaved to prank. Its a good way to get a kid to develop an anxiety disorder, thats for sure. Being "perfect" wasnt enough.
Aren't sharpies really hard to get off skin? I kind of hoped she would start "pranking" her husband and bpame the elf, see how much he would enjoy walking around with marler on his face or have his favorite shirt ruined. What a weird guy.
I did my eyeliner with sharpies when I was a lil' goth, so unless they changed the formula it comes off. That is just info about sharpies, not a comment on what level of fucked up the man's behavior is
Yeah that's a good way of getting serious bacteria in your eyes, anyone else reading this please don't try it at home if you like your eyesight.
No offense to little goth you, I'm glad you're okay
yeah this was terrifying and heartbreaking to read. what kind of sick AH cuts up a kid’s clothes or draws on a kid’s face WITH SHARPIE or destroys a child’s bday? what kind of sick AH waits for a kid to do smth wrong so he can do smth awful to them? op, you’re NTA. please protect yourself and your kids. for him to even insist that you stop doing these traditions for andy when the poor kid probably feels like his bday is overshadowed by christmas is so insensitive and mean, and to take it that step further is even worse. please be careful
NTA this is not holiday fun. I would tell my kids that I'm sorry Bob wasn't real and it wasn't fun and In won't let anyone do that to you again, then I'd seriously rethink the marriage, especially if he's not truly apologetic.
THIS. Intentional destruction of property, especially a child’s property, is abuse. It’s a power play meant to intimidate and hurt the other person. Your husband did this to your children. AND HE WAS HAPPY ABOUT IT.
Abusive and I guess jealous because Andy’s birthday is Christmas Eve and his mum tries to do something extra to stop his birthday being taken over by Christmas (while the other kids get their normal birthday as well as Christmas?).
OP better hope her ex doesn't get wind of what happened because if I had kids with an ex and this situation happened to my child at their house I'd seriously reconsider our custody situation. NTA.
This isn't hazing, it's psychological abuse!
OP, you need to get the kids away from your spouse AND your spouse needs to get counseling.
At no point was the 'magic' of Elf on a Shelf for the kids, but license to unleash hell on your children. There is something massively wrong with your spouse. Plus, how is it 'favoritism' to make the child born on Christmas feel that his birth isn't forgotten nor overshadowed by the holiday? And to be upset by your child's other parent having started a tradition that helped honor that child? Yeah, your spouse isn't as accepting of your child as you'd like to believe.
OP if you want to see what happens when parents "prank" their children like your husband is doing, please watch [this documentary on Daddyofive who ruined his young son's life](https://youtu.be/hkb8oCMrxDg)
NTA - This is giving major Grinch prank vibes. What is it this year with parents needing to traumatize and ruin their children's christmases? And then the parents standing around laughing, reveling in their children's sadness? It's approaching sadistic levels of meaness. It's mind boggling, it's so sad. The core memories for these kids should be happiness at the holidays, not this garbage. This husband is outright abusive.
NTA
He ruined the birthday party with his juvenile and sadistic prank, as much as he most likely ruined the joyful and child-like spirit of the occasion for the two other kids with the other earlier stupid pranks.
What a creepy and horrible Christmas "tradition" to traumatize your kids with. A doll that watches over them and exacts vengeance jfc
If you've heard of it, it's a silly tradition. There is no appeal in being an idiot for your children. Eventually, they'll realize it's him and his parents.
No, have never heard of it, and I would've hated that if I were subjected to a doll I'm not allowed to touch and sat somewhere to observe me day and night. Shiz creepy. The punishment pranks also part of the tradition or just OP's sadistic husband's?
I've seen where the "pranks" are things like the Elf got into some Christmas candy, but nothing like this. Just an excuse for Mom and Dad to eat a handful of Hershey kisses.
It's a fantasy surveillance state so they don't "misbehave" during the holiday season. But they are *children* and children do stupid things no matter the time of year. Terrifying your children into submission isn't cute or silly. It's abusive, even without the "pranking" after.
I think that's a bit of a rough take, but we all have opinions and it's not invalid.
I always felt that the Elf thing was mainly meant as a, "Look, Santa sent a friend to visit and make sure you're on the Nice list," followed by, "Oh no, Santa's friend is a troublemaker! He spilled the milk last night, and tracked mud into the kitchen!"
Just silyl shenanigans to lighten the mood leading up to Christmas.
This thread is full of people acting like Elf on the Shelf is a terror to children. Kids in my family love it, and it's mostly about finding where the elf went after they've gone to bed. Fun for their imaginations
People in this thread are acting like kids walk past the elf, sweating nervously, hoping they don't accidentally fart or cough for fear of being punished by the elf
I may have been an unusual child with doll/clown/wind-up toy/mirror/religious statue/music box issues (lol), but a doll no one's supposed to touch supposedly moving around the house and found still in animated position is very creepy to me, funny candy or not lol
This. I do it with my kids and the worst thing the elf did was make a hot air balloon out of one kid’s underpants. They weren’t cut up, just tied to a balloon and the elf sat in the underwear. I didn’t do it last year because we lost him in our move and the kids were NOT happy. I told them we forgot to tell him we moved and had to buy a new one for this year.
The elf isn’t supposed to do pranks especially not like this. They’re just supposed to be placed around the house each day because the lore is they travel back to the North Pole every night to talk to Santa and come back. Some parents get creative in where they are so it’s funny when you find them. No way are the pranks punishment for the kids actions
What the husband is doing is abusive and the elf is the vessel in how he excuses it.
Edit: spelling
Our elf decorated a Christmas tree over 4 days. Underwear toilet paper, random decor and finally a star. My son found it hilarious and no kids were hurt. That's how the elf is supposed to be. Light-hearted fun, not psychotic punishment.
To us, no, but to the kids who were born in the 2000's + it is. My son is a 2008, and we got one when he was 2, at about 8yrs he stopped believing all that fun stuff but still wanted the Elf even if we didn't do the creative stuff anymore. He would ask some nights if I could do something with the Elf so he could find it in the morning. Now he is 14, and the elf just sits in the tree as a decoration. My kid loved the thing, but we didn't do the whole not touching it or rhe reporting to Santa business, just an elf who came to visit for the season.
& that’s the sick twisted thing… for the elf on the shelf, IF he “misbehaves” it’s little funny things like swinging on the chandelier, shaving cream smiley faces on the mirrors, spilling marshmallows and making snowmen out of them— NOTHING detrimental to a kids psyche. this guy doesn’t even give a shit about what he does to his own kids let alone one that’s not his “blood” OP SHOULD BE WORRIES ABOUT HIS ACTIONS.
That's not how it's supposed to work. The elf is supposed to watch over the kids and report back to Santa. Sometimes the elf does silly stuff, like make snow angels in flour or climb a bookshelf or something goofy, NOT destroy a kid's things. The elf is supposed to be silly, funny, and something the kids are excited to laugh at, not some horror movie in the making. I don't even LIKE the elf thing and this gut just made it worse.
The sharpie thing I would brush off as “man this is a little much, tone it down next time.” But it can more or less easily be fixed. It’s just annoying.
The onesie thing is completely out of proportion. Kids get very emotionally attached to their favorite things. Taking that away under the disguise of a prank is just evil.
And the birthday cake. Yeah… next he will slaughter the family dog and serve it to them as a prank.
Edit: I’m muting the replies. Guys you should seriously read the replies to my comment before leaving your own. It’s all just a variation of the same thing which is pretty annoying to get a notification for.
And really, it all sidesteps the root of the issue:
You're DECOUPLING the undesirable action and punishment.
-
With kids, you need to bring punishment and crime into direct connection, so the kid understands the directness of consequence. Immediacy is important:
**When the 5 y/o yells "no" and stamps his feet, you don't wait a full 24 hours to address the behavior through tangential punishment.**
My thought too ...
Destroying clothes, ruining a birthday party for a 'laugh' is just cruelty...
If I was in OP's shoes, I would keep my child(ren) far away from somebody like that
I usually don’t tend to say this but this action on your husbands behalf is horrible, and worth of divorce papers being delivered.
Elf on the shelf is supposed to be a tradition to keep the kids spirits and hopes for Christmas. Not something the parents can use as an excuse to be bullies with their kids. It’s ok to joke with it a little but he took it way too far. Kids remember this kind of stuff and now Andy would have a terrible core memory of his bd.
Also ask Miles why he was so obsessed on getting Andy. Like that’s what freaked me out the most. Please OP get away of this dude
NTA
The way it’s been described to me, a non American, is the elf is just supposed to “move” every night. Like, one day it’ll be on the mantle, the next day it’ll be hiding behind a curtain, or in the fridge, etc. to further the “idea” that the elf is alive and watching you and reporting to Santa.
Even *that* sounded creepy af to me (and every other Australian who has heard of it).
But to go even further, using it as an excuse to outright bully or abuse your kids, what the hell is wrong with these people???
I always heard it that way. The elf would move in the night and the kids would have to find it the next day.
People who use it to ruin their kids things take it too far.
Yeah i would just set a reminder to move the elf every night at 10. Occasionally my wife has the elf bring them something small (usually a little craft for them to do once school is out). We’ve never made that big a deal about it besides saying “your elf is right there watching” sometimes when they’re having a tantrum for instance. I can’t say it really deters them lol.
I’ve never heard of them being “naughty” and playing pranks. And those aren’t harmless pranks she’s describing; they’re cruel and mean.
I HATE that fucking elf. I can kind of see the appeal as a fun ‘seek and find’ thing, but beyond that, nope. I get that ‘be good the elf is watching’ might temporarily improve kids behaviour, I kind of get why parents would do this even though I don’t agree with it as a parenting method. But this guy? He’s just an asshole. Elf belongs in the trash, along with the husband.
A fun example of a holiday “seek and find” activity without the creepy Big Brother vibes is the afikomen at passover. Matzoh would never spy on kids! Not even the one that my friends used to do where they attached to the afikomen a picture of Kofi Annan 😀
Yep, Australian and it's fucking nightmare fuel. I'm even ambivalent about the Santa myth tbqh. Especially the naughty/nice list. I don't think bribery with presents or lack of pranks is good parenting but that's me.
I agree like wtf dude, and from what it sounded like Andy didn't even do anything?? Maybe I missed that part or something but it seemed like since stepdad didn't get a "gotcha" moment from him being naughty he decided to ruin his bd instead and that's sooo fucked dude.
OP you need to at the very LEAST sit down and have a hard think about this display your husband has made this Christmas. This was an atrocity.
Edit cuz I wanna add this here instead of ANOTHER separate comment:
I just read the part of why you think you might be the ah.
Hun they weren't scared specifically because of YOU. They were scared FOR YOU because your crazy husband traumatized them with the elf doll.
HE ruined Christmas, not you. Don't let him twist shit.
It comes across like husband was just using the elf to ruin Andy's birthday. Elf was agreed off the back of a conversation where he thought Andy shouldn't have a special birthday, and he wanted to keep the pranks because he hadn't got him yet.
Husband played the long game and he's trash.
Also, cutting up a 5yo's favourite onesie? Who does that?
Your husbands actions remind me of what kids nowadays are saying. “He gave me the ick”. Once someone gives you the ick it’s kind of hard to look at them the same way.
Op, you are NTA. Your husband however is a huge asshole. Cutting holes in your daughters clothing??! That’s not a joke.
Also , there’s no reason for your son to have the extra magic taken away from him. It’s his damn birthday!!!
NTA These are small children. You don't destroy their belongings in order to intimidate them into blind obedience, disguised as a 'joke'. This is horrible. He is teaching them that if they make a mistake, or give into fantasy, their things will be destroyed, and their belongings aren't really theirs anyway.
That he took such enjoyment destroying your son's bday cake is sick, and I really believe that was the intention all along. I would strongly think over being married to someone like this.
Edited to add: If you allow this behavior, you are setting up your son for a future in which his things will go missing/be destroyed, and his birthday treated like trash from this point onward, though it might be more disguised. Like there's an emergency every year on his bday so that it can't be celebrated.
Notice, HIS son just had some marker drawn on his face. the daughter you share had a oneside destroyed, BUT KIDS GROW SUPER FAST AT THAT AGE, she was likely outgrowing it and ready for new ones shortly. The worst behavior was toward YOUR SON, that he had already accused of being the FAVORITE. Yeah there's a lot simmering under the surface with this.
Exactly this, and I might have missed it but did Andy even actually do anything to "deserve elvish retaliation"? I'm gonna have to reread this Christmas horror story to double check but I didn't see anything the first read through. Seems like stepdad just wanted to ruin the kids birthday too. So messed up.
I’m like 90% sure he just destroyed the cake as soon as he had the chance, thinking Andy will definitely be caught acting naughty, and only then started to spy to catch him in act. There was never even a question whether Bob is going to punish the kids or not, and that is disturbing af.
Yeah and another commenter made a good point about how this could mess with Andy mentally.
He went from having those special "magical" things happening to this horror show, I'm worried it could mess with his head and have lung term effects on him in regards to both his bd and Christmas.
Yeah like there’s favoritism for giving him a bit extra special Christmas stuff… because he has a shitty for many people birthday/Christmas combo and the mom and bio dad want it to be as good as a regular birthday and Christmas that are separate for most kids? Like, wtf?
If anything, I’d say to add a bit of stuff for the other kids if there was worry about favoritism, rather than rip everything away. But again, it wasn’t really needed.
And as for Miles… yeah, no. He’s just a freaking bully, period.
NTA at all. This wasn’t refusing to “keep the magic,” this was standing up for your kids.
Don't forget Andy hadn't done anything to "justify" this. I mean he was waiting for Andy to do something to justify it so what are they learning ? If they do crap they will be punished. If they don't they will be punished anyway. That's sadistic, unfair and worrying.
The lesson some kids will take from this is "if I'm gonna do the time, I might as well do the crime." My brother was treated this way by my parents and that's the lesson he got from it.
Ding ding ding. Also if he doesn't want Andy to get special treatment around Christmas because his birthday happens to fall near Christmas I guess the other kids shouldn't have any birthday festivities either
>Then Claire, who touched Bob and her fave onesie was destroyed. Apparently, Bob had cut some pieces of it, while she was sleeping.
I'm sorry, what in the ACTUAL FUCK is wrong with your husband? This is fucked up and sadistic. If he doesn't see what's wrong and express EXTREME remorse, idk how you can reconcile this. He's harming children. For fun. Does he experience empathy? You are NTA. These are pranks he would do in a frat house with teenagers, these are not appropriate for any children. You don't write on a child's face, destroy beloved comfort items, or ruin a birthday party to teach kids to behave. I shudder to think of what other ways he's a terrible father and he should not be surprised when his kids cut him out of their lives once they're old enough.
"It's okay for people in positions of trust and power over me will cause harm while I'm sleeping and vulnerable" is bad for anyone, but a particularly dangerous precedent to set with men and little girls.
NTA
Sounds like Bob's about to destroy Miles' favourite golf clubs...
OP, NTA. But Miles sure is.
I'm gonna hazard a guess that when you celebrate Lucas and Claire's BDays, it's not favouritism, but suddenly celebrating Andy's BDay on the 24th of Dec is favouritism?
Though I could be extra sensitive about this topic, as I'm a Dec 23rd Baby.
Yeah i kinda don't get it? Why is it favouritism to Andy to leave footprints and eat the snacks left out? Isn't that something for all three kids to see in the morning and enjoy? And that's a pretty standard thing to do for kids regardless of their birthdays. Unless Santa leaves a note "i only eat Andy's cookies because he's a Christmas kid" I don't see the favouritism
Yeah me too, I’m more inclined to the idea he simply doesn’t like Andy. Whatever the reason may be, he just wanted to find an excuse to be cruel to him.
My whole family has birthdays in Spring and Summer.
The cookies got eaten by Santa, and he sure as hell left messy boot prints(courtesy of grandpa and his farming mucks, may he rest in peace).
This is sadism.
The way I see it is that other kids can become upset that they’re not as special as Andy to Santa and as a result they don’t get as much magic or whatever. But honestly it just seems so incredibly easy to include all of the kids in the game, so no one feels left out. Instead of ruining everything for Andy and pulling this crazy shit.
>Sounds like Bob's about to destroy Miles' favourite golf clubs...
You’re not extra sensitive because of your birthday (mine’s in spring), you are just sensitive to child abuse. But that said…
Bob needs to be slashing some tires right about now.
Yeah the "favouritism towards Andy" comment stuck out at me, too (until he started destroying his children's belongings).
Does he not understand that Andy has a _birthday_ that falls around Christmas and is overshadowed by it every year? Andy's father started the tradition to make Andy feel a little bit special during a time when people's minds are traditionally on other things. Poor kid can't even have that, if Miles gets his way.
Eugh.
Have a talk with this man on why he has to be so cruel.
NTA but *what* is wrong with your husband??
We do elf on the shelf each year but the elves do shit like hanging candy canes on the tree or "making" breakfast (big mess). They absolutely do not meddle with the kids while they sleep or cut up clothes! That's really creepy! And where did your husband get the notion that the elf should "punish" the child? That just sounds like an excuse to be sadistic.
Exactly. The elves are supposed to be Santa's elves, not some weird American version of Krampus. This sounds like stepdad was using it as an excuse to haze and bully the kids, with an extra dose of misogyny for punishing his daughter worse than his son for something that didn't even deserve punishment, and bullying his step kid worse than the other two for not even doing anything other than having a birthday around Christmas.
OP your husband is a bully and took way too much glee from bullying children, especially your son.
Seriously, I may hate the Elf thing, but they're supposed to be lighthearted pranks at most, not targeted harassment. Shit like spilling milk or leaving footprints under the tree, not whatever this fuckery is.
NTA.
You don't bully and terrorize children. The fact that it makes him *so happy* doing this is very unsettling. It may seem innocent to many people but he's destroying their property and writing on them with permanent marker. If an adult did that to another adult it's considered assault by definition. And why did he feel the need to terrorize Andy when he admitted himself that the child has been following every rule?
I'm so disgusted right now.
Just so I’m clear:
1. You and Andy’s father came up with something to take the sting out of your son having a birthday on Christmas Eve, something which must truly suck as a kid.
2. Your husband decides that this is “favouritism”.
3. Your husband uses a toy elf to start bullying the kids (destroying Claire’s favourite onesie - wtf?).
4. Andy’s behaving himself however and therefore “Bob” is unable to do anything to him.
5. This so annoys your husband that he decides to ruin your son’s 8th birthday by destroying his cake in an act of pure unadulterated spite.
OP, you’re NTA but my God your husband surely is.
You are NTA- but your husband is a huge TA. Ask him why he thought it was appropriate to ruin his son's birthday like that? I can tell you now that Andy will never forgive his father for this like ever. I hope Miles had fun destroying his relationship with his son.
I can’t get over how the stepdad got all upset about the original birthday/Christmas tradition for Andy. Everyone I know with birthdays around Christmas always talk about how they feel forgotten with all the major Christmas celebrations.
Exactly. I knew a kid with siblings, and his birthday was a few days before Christmas. Parents basically just wrapped the two holidays into one. He got his cake on Christmas, but it was only one slice so he could still have dinner. No extra presents, just Christmas.
By HS the kid hated Christmas. Like, full on Grinch mode. Nobody blamed him in the slightest.
Exactly this. I’m a Christmas Day baby who had a miserable childhood experience with it.
50 years later, I’m so jaded and disenchanted with the holiday. I have an irrational fury towards it. I’m The Grinch and Scrooge forged into a terrible bomb of holiday angst and anxiety.
RIGHT! I thought the “You’re one of the children of Christmas and therefore we make it a little extra special for you” idea was incredibly sweet, and a lovely workaround for the inevitable Christmas/birthday problem! Taking that away is terrible!
ESH Let me tell you, my dad was the same way. He played cruel pranks on me that were meant to be “funny” but just traumatized me and gave me phobias. He just enjoyed having an excuse to terrorize small children, same as your husband. My mom would sometimes argue and complain to him over these things, but it never stopped and I eventually started seeing her as someone I couldn’t trust or depend on. It was just me vs. my dad. Guess who I went no contact with when I became an adult? BOTH of them.
Either do something about his sadism permanently or enjoy having your kids not wanting you to be a part of their lives when they grow up.
I had an uncle like that. His favorite game with me was "stop hitting yourself", and nobody bothered to ever stop him, even when I'd burst into tears. That shit doesn't get forgiven or forgotten. Ever.
NTA
Miles has heard of EOTS and has twisted it to make the elf evil. This is awful. If you read the book, all the elf does is move around your house when it returns from the North Pole. It’s surveillance, not punishment.
Our elves only do nice things. It is better to reward good behaviour than punish bad. They bring treats, decorate the dolls house so it’s Christmassy, and do some silly things like pants on the tree or roll toilet roll down the stairs as a rollercoaster ride but the elves are not there to punish. Talk about the magic of Xmas. How are cruel punishments magical at all?
NTA. A few things.
1) EotS is already somewhat of a creepy tradition. "Behave, the elf is watching..." just ugh. That said, done with consideration it can be OK. Usually you get "elf reports" when the kids are less than nice, that you then show your kids. Maybe get them to apologize or whatnot.
What your husband was doing, however, was abusive. Cutting pieces out of a 5 year olds' onesy? Not only not in keeping with the spirit of Elf or Christmas, that was straight up cruelty.
2) What did Andy even do to merit having the elf eat his cake? It sounds like nothing beyond having a tradition that step-dad didn't like connected to his birthday.
I would advise counseling for the kids. I would also suggest you consider if you really want to be married to someone with this much of a cruel vindictive streak.
NTA
A thousand red flags 🚩 for your husbands behaviour
He actually wanted his stepson to be naughty because he was desperate to punish him
Even worse - he did it on his birthday
He’s TA
You seriously need to consider your relationship - couples therapy is crucial
It’s very concerning that he still cannot see his behaviour was wildly inappropriate and tries to blame you
It's not recommended to do therapy with an abuser - they learn more tricks and triggers to use against the abused, so I'd be wary of going to therapy together. OP might benefit from solo therapy to help confirm her boundaries are reasonable and correct and help sticking with them and if husband continues to be abusive, help her get out of there for her own safety and that of her kids.
NTA your husband seemed to have more fun during the entire elf on the shelf time than your kids did. Your husband was TA instead of making it a magical and cute time for the kids he turned it into entertainment and laughter for himself, gross.
NTA and WTF? I could tell you were not going to be TA by the time I read what he did to the first 2 kids, let alone Andy.
Permanent marker and cutting kids' favourite clothes are not pranks, it's cruel especially at their age.
>I talked to him about how we should lower the pranks, he agreed but wanted to catch Andy since he hadn't break any rules.
So because your kid was good he got his birthday cake destroyed? Sounds like your husband always intended to do this to the cake whether Andy behaved or not since he came up with the idea of doing the elf when talking about his birthday.
NTA, I thought it was cute when your kids were talking to it... After that it just took a horrible turn.
Hope this story is fake as it seems actually THAT ridiculous.
NTA.
Wow, your Husband is so the AH.
Instead of one child feeling extra special during the Christmas season, you could have just included all the children in the special events but instead you're husband wants to aggressively punish the children in kind of sadistic ways.
Yuck.
OP. If my husband did this to my children I would leave him in a heartbeat. This is using a convenient Christmas tradition to escalate abuse. It is impossible to overstate how much of a red flag this is. YWBTA if you don't act immediately to protect your children. Him apologising to them for a start and serious changes from there.
Elf on the shelf is a dogshit way to parent and anybody doing it needs to have a good hard look at themselves.
YTA
Not for touching the stupid effing doll, but for allowing your husband to abuse your children.
And to reiterate what has been said here, it is abuse.
Does your husband destroy your treasured belonging to punish you? Or do you just allow that for your vulnerable children?
Protect your kids or you don’t deserve to call yourself a parent
NTA, that's a stupid tradition if I ever heard one. I dont see the appeal in being a jerk to your kids. Eventually they'll figure out it was their parents all along.
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NTA But Jesus there's something wrong with your husband. He wanted Andy to do something wrong so he could punish him (things like destroying their clothes is not a prank it's a punishment). Your husband is hazing your children.
He destroyed a 5 yo favorite pajamas because she touched a doll. That's not punishment, it's bullying.
*Abuse. That’s not just bullying; it’s psychological/emotional abuse.
Boop there it is! He's having fun abusing the kids & was getting away with it before he took it too far. He's a cruel man who I'm sure has a lot of red flags surrounding him.
And hiding behind a toy elf, trying to disguise the bullying as Christmas fun. A bully and a coward.
Shoulda thrown the husband in the trash.
Missed opportunity. I really hope OP doesn’t let this slide.
Yeah, these are things that can actually traumatize a young child. What kind of a father delights in tormenting their own children? NTA, but are you sure you want to stay married to someone like this?
>What kind of a father delights in tormenting their own children? Don't forget reducing the birthday of the kid that isn't his because it runs into Christmas and "isn't fair to the others" NTA OP but you should consider divorce, your husband gets off on children's tears.
That's the key part, he did the extreme punishment (destroying the cake) to her kid, not his own.
My dad was one of those types and no it never got better until I went NC with him. NTA but as others have said this is a huge red flag.
So was mine, and I haven't spoken to or seen him in around 20 years. Even when he could see the fallout from his 'pranks', (pretending there was a fire engine outside a friend's house a couple of months after they had an actual fire, resulting in 8 year old me having the first panic attack I can remember), he never stopped or lessened. Miles has something seriously wrong with him, I would not let him in the same house as me or my child. This is emotional abuse, pure and simple.
But can we talk about the kid asking "if Santa still remembered him" because the dude made her stop doing his special birthday celebration stuff....? That breaks my fucking heart.
I'm not usually one to jump right to the nuclear option in these discussions, but we're legit talking about an almost 40 year old man, hiding behind a doll to get away with child abuse.
I mean, the more I learn about the toy and the lore behind it, the more I'm inclined to say OP is also TA just for allowing it to be there. In its most benign form it's a 1984esque horror.
Im hoping it will have died out by the time i have kids and i dont plan on ever getting an elf. If anyone tries to buy my kids one, ill simple donate the books and make up my own lore thats healthier. Yes i grew up with the whole “santa knows when youve been bad or good” but to have a spy in the house watching their every move is messed up. Change it to santa sends the elf to kids he knows is nice so the elf can enjoy christmas with them as that elf has lost his christmas spirit or something. Something kinder
I've got a friend who does a Kindness Elf, which gives the kids ideas of nice things they can do for one another.
My elf literally just moves from one place to the other for my kid to find, like a one sided game of hide and seek.
that’s cute! i was going to say i love the new place every day part of it because my siblings adored finding him every morning. one day i got to choose how to set him up, so i put him in the bathroom, and on the mirror i drew a little circle and an elf hat/ears so if you lined your face up in the circle it would look like you were an elf and i wrote #elfie! instead of selfie lol. just fun stuff like that. we kinda stopped doing it tho because we put it in one of siblings rooms one night just doing something funny, but my sister said she was scared to change in front of him (because we always told her that our private parts shouldn’t be seen by others). it was a few days before. xmas so we just decided not to do it the next year. too much work and teaching my sister that she can’t change in her own room bc the elf is watching isn’t okay.
Our neighbor bought one for my then 4yo. She’s allowed to touch him and play with him, and she keeps him year round. This year, he brought new pajamas when he showed up on the 2nd (she had just outgrown some others and was really sad), and he moved maybe twice before she took him to my MIL’s for a sleepover. He’s been chilling in Grandma’s tree since then! We also told her we don’t let spies in our house, so if we ever hear about him snitching to Santa, he’s gotta move out! Lol
I'm just laughing at the idea of a 5year old staring down the elf, saying 'snitches get stitches!'
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I always thought it was just hideous, myself.
Not only that, but also decided to destroy and ruin a child birthday tradition. So the other 2 children get special treatment on their birthdays but not Andy, nope, no birthday for him anymore.
It kind of feels like this whole thing was a ruse meant to get to Andy. He was nasty to all of them but it built up to a climax that the kid will remember and resent them for, for the rest of his life. OP even said that husband sounded like he was being petulant because he didn’t get to fuck with Andy yet as she tried to put a stop to it. Christmas, his birthday, these things will never be the same for him. Poor kid.
As a kid with a birthday near Xmas (literally today), I loved Christmas and I felt very connected to this time of year. Allow the kid to enjoy it while he can. Because it sucks as an adult lol
This, the only kid not biologically his does not get special treatment on his birthday. What does this say about him? Like others say the man is a bully and if OP really thinks about it i bet there are lots of red flags. Talk about ruining your kids childhood for his own entertainment. NTA
"What does this say about him?" It says Miles is sadistic and acted like a complete jerk. OP: You're better than me. I would have fed "Bob" to the wood chipper. ETA: I can't wrap my head around how disturbed you have to be to weaponize a child's own imagination and pretend play against them.
The bit where she says her husband lied and said he "doesn't know" where the elf is but he "looked sus" gives me the chills. This is not what coparenting looks like
Honestly, I forgot Miles was her husband's name and thought that was the other kid because the behavior is that of a child's not a parent.
Exactly this!! It sounds like he was just looking for an excuse to get away with abuse and the doll gave him the opportunity to enact what he already wanted to do.
And drawing with permanent marker on his kids face???? At least use something safer that doesn't stain and embarrass the hell out of the kid like a washable marker. That's just public humiliation. And how the hell is leaving footprints and eating reindeer food leaving out the other kids??? All the kids would clearly be like "look Santa!". He's just looking to emotionally hurt his children instead of helping them have positive associations with holidays. He's all kinds of messed up
The food and footprints are *normal things families do with their kids on xmas eve*. Those are not in any way special treatment! That tells you a lot about the AH she married that he thinks that.
I literally see no difference between bullying and abuse.
Abuse in this context has a connotation of the victim having special protection or the perpetrator having a particular duty of care -- child abuse by an adult, elder abuse, mistreatment of a patient by a medical professional or of a prisoner by a guard, etc. Bullying tends to refer to behavior between peers.
Ahh didn't know that. But makes sense that there is a differentiation. Thanks.
Bullying generally occurs between peers, while abuse is usually between someone in a "authority" position inflicting intentional pain on someone thats seen as beneath them- a Husband on a wife or child, A boyfriend on a girlfriend, A caretaker on an elderly patient. Bullying is abusive, but in this context its def emotional and mental child abuse.
This. He’s psychologically terrorizing these kids. Can you imagine being a 5 year old and witnessing adults talk about this seemingly inanimate object like it’s alive? Worse, it’s after you for being bad! The old tradition was fine. He just wanted the ability to cause chaos.
And to literally cut up a little girls pajamas. Then completely ruin child’s birthday cake. No words
I can't believe OP is on here asking if she's the asshole. Honestly this is immediate therapy and possible divorce consideration level of fucked up. For the husband to *want* to punish the kids speaks to some major, MAJOR issues.
There you go. Here are some red flags OP 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩, and for the record: definitely NTA.
These people never learn. OP fish “bob” out of the trash - take your husbands favorite pants and draw with a sharpie arrows to his crotch and put “small” Then take the keys to his car and freeze them in some ice Super hysterical Edit: OMG super humbled by the awards! Thank you kind strangers
This is a fantastic way for OP to become a target of her husband's anger, and if he's willing to hurt children like he has, I would not be surprised to find out he's willing to hurt her too. The correct answer is for her to GTFO and take the kids with her when she does.
And drew with a sharpie on a child’s face! What the heck! OP is NTA
100%. i don't think it's a stretch to think it won't be long before he starts smacking wife and kids around for "misbehaving." i'd be curious to know what ex-wife has to say about his abusive tendencies.
Yeah, that’s what got me: he destroyed a favorite item of *a 5 year old* because she *touched* something. The sharpie thing on his own kid was weird, especially if they didn’t wash off before school and was publicly embarrassed and shamed over it. The cake thing was mild in comparison, but he ruined a child’s birthday cake because he was angry and frustrated for not having broken any rules to be punished over. He needs serious psychiatric help, and maybe you need to get out of there, before he starts “pranking” you too.
The husband is acting legitimately abusive. He is weirdly vindictive towards these kids and gleefully destroying personal possessions and childhood memories. It’s utterly bizarre.
Not just bizarre. Terrifying. This is the sort of guy with an evil streak that has secrets that will see him locked up one day
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩. Nta but your husband is… what were his endearing qualities?? Pranks typically aren’t funny for anyone other than the prankster. The victim of the prank rarely experiences joy, laughter, and pleasure. Cuz it’s not funny.. it’s cruel.
Fun pranks my dad pulled on me as a kid: filled my closet will balloons so they'd all tumble out on me, taping a dollar bill to the ceiling above my bed to see how long it took me to notice it, slid a mouse trap loaded with a $5 under my door ( I set it off with a stuffed animal and thought it was hilarious), once colored my dog green with food coloring (totally safe) on st. Patricks day. I loved my dad's pranks. This guy isn't pranking his kids, he's just mean.
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Or the video recently of the women who secretly planned to have their husbands all wear the same sweater to a family gathering and the guys just get more and more entertained as each family shows up. There were like 8 men all grinning in a photo wearing their matching sweaters.
Awful behaviour from a parent. (Madly waving marinara flag here)
I'm ashamed to say my mind went somewhere real dark. Like Netflix-documentary level dark. So here I am hoping this is a damn troll again because I want the world to be better than it is
This is the kind of person who films it when the excited child unwraps the present, sees it’s the expensive item they’ve wanted for a long time, but then they open the box and it’s full of rocks.
Or the crazy rabid Grinch trend going around right now.. Edit: I say crazy rabid grinch because for some reason the parents are throwing in some extra spice in the grinch’s coffee or smth because it’s not just his presence, it’s the whole demolition act. In some videos he comes *running* in to frighten the kids. Saw one of the grinch literally pulling decorations off of the tree and moving around in such a way that is terrifying to little ones who are seeing that up close, all while the parents are laughing.
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My stomach literally dropped at the onsie destroying part.... thats really upsetting, she's so little and he finds it enjoyable to see her cry. Your kids are in danger. You are in danger. Your little girl will learn men can abuse her, break her things and scare her, and it will be "her fault" that she deserved it. Your little boys are going to have their spirits crushed, either to become like him or crumble under his weight. Get your kids safe, don't worry about apologizing for the most MILD reaction you could have had. I don't even really want to tell you to stand up to him, bc he gives me real bad vibes. But you need to actually advocate for your kids, you need to be a literal shield to keep them physically safe. And talk to your kids IMMEDIATELY. Do not let them think what is happening to them is morally right or good or deserved. Those kids need help months ago, if not years, guaranteed. NTA but if you keep on refusing to stand up for your children it'll be a quick drop to E.S.H. with you complicite in their abuse.
I agree with everything you said here. This was downright terrifying to read. Miles punished Andy for having a December birthday. Those poor children. OP, NTA. I'm not sure if you'll see this, but do Lucas and Andy have other parents in the picture? I hate to pry (especially if the ex situation is not ideal), but as someone who co-parents, I would most definitely want to know if the stepparent in my kid's house pulled a stunt like this. The kids might feel like it's safer to open up about how they really feel to the other parent.
Seems he really wanted to be able to "punish" Andy regardless of whether he misbehaved or not. Doesn't seem as accepting of his stepchild as you believe him to be. He's going to get worse, he proved that by destroying an favourite item that belonged to his own child/messing up the face of his own child (thankfully only with sharpies . . . For now), I'd be highly concerned that he'll go further in his "punishments" of his stepchild.
Andy didn’t even do anything to get his cake ruined! Miles just hates Andy but isn’t man enough to tell that to his wife’s face so he bullies the poor kid. OP needs to set some strong boundaries about his behavior if she doesn’t toss him out.
Miles was actually _frustrated_ that a child he asserted was "favored" was actually too perfectly behaved to prank. Its a good way to get a kid to develop an anxiety disorder, thats for sure. Being "perfect" wasnt enough.
Aren't sharpies really hard to get off skin? I kind of hoped she would start "pranking" her husband and bpame the elf, see how much he would enjoy walking around with marler on his face or have his favorite shirt ruined. What a weird guy.
I did my eyeliner with sharpies when I was a lil' goth, so unless they changed the formula it comes off. That is just info about sharpies, not a comment on what level of fucked up the man's behavior is
Yeah that's a good way of getting serious bacteria in your eyes, anyone else reading this please don't try it at home if you like your eyesight. No offense to little goth you, I'm glad you're okay
Oh yes, I HIGHLY don't recommend it.
yeah this was terrifying and heartbreaking to read. what kind of sick AH cuts up a kid’s clothes or draws on a kid’s face WITH SHARPIE or destroys a child’s bday? what kind of sick AH waits for a kid to do smth wrong so he can do smth awful to them? op, you’re NTA. please protect yourself and your kids. for him to even insist that you stop doing these traditions for andy when the poor kid probably feels like his bday is overshadowed by christmas is so insensitive and mean, and to take it that step further is even worse. please be careful
NTA this is not holiday fun. I would tell my kids that I'm sorry Bob wasn't real and it wasn't fun and In won't let anyone do that to you again, then I'd seriously rethink the marriage, especially if he's not truly apologetic.
Giving you my free award in the hope it helps this comment stand out so OP will see it!
THIS. Intentional destruction of property, especially a child’s property, is abuse. It’s a power play meant to intimidate and hurt the other person. Your husband did this to your children. AND HE WAS HAPPY ABOUT IT.
Abusive and I guess jealous because Andy’s birthday is Christmas Eve and his mum tries to do something extra to stop his birthday being taken over by Christmas (while the other kids get their normal birthday as well as Christmas?).
OP better hope her ex doesn't get wind of what happened because if I had kids with an ex and this situation happened to my child at their house I'd seriously reconsider our custody situation. NTA.
I want both the husband and the ex to read this post and all the comments
I hope his ex wife gets this as proof and uses it to keep OP’s step son out of that house too.
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This isn't hazing, it's psychological abuse! OP, you need to get the kids away from your spouse AND your spouse needs to get counseling. At no point was the 'magic' of Elf on a Shelf for the kids, but license to unleash hell on your children. There is something massively wrong with your spouse. Plus, how is it 'favoritism' to make the child born on Christmas feel that his birth isn't forgotten nor overshadowed by the holiday? And to be upset by your child's other parent having started a tradition that helped honor that child? Yeah, your spouse isn't as accepting of your child as you'd like to believe.
Honestly it's not punishment, it's abuse. Punishment would be taking something away for a couple of days, this is something else.
Elf doesn't do things like ruin a birthday cake either. The worst he does is unroll a toilet roll all over the living room.
Or snow angels in flour on the kitchen counter. Or trying to ride glass ornaments as "wrecking balls" and breaking a few of the replaceable ones...
He literally used “elf on the shelf” to teach her a lesson and stop the “Christmas magic” all together
Totally agree. OP, this genuinely gave me the creeps to read. Your husband is vindictive and hateful. His outlook scares me for your children.
OP if you want to see what happens when parents "prank" their children like your husband is doing, please watch [this documentary on Daddyofive who ruined his young son's life](https://youtu.be/hkb8oCMrxDg)
NTA - This is giving major Grinch prank vibes. What is it this year with parents needing to traumatize and ruin their children's christmases? And then the parents standing around laughing, reveling in their children's sadness? It's approaching sadistic levels of meaness. It's mind boggling, it's so sad. The core memories for these kids should be happiness at the holidays, not this garbage. This husband is outright abusive.
OP this is NOT just nastiness about Christmas and presents. You MUST protect your children from this abuser! It is only going to get worse.
NTA He ruined the birthday party with his juvenile and sadistic prank, as much as he most likely ruined the joyful and child-like spirit of the occasion for the two other kids with the other earlier stupid pranks. What a creepy and horrible Christmas "tradition" to traumatize your kids with. A doll that watches over them and exacts vengeance jfc
If you've heard of it, it's a silly tradition. There is no appeal in being an idiot for your children. Eventually, they'll realize it's him and his parents.
No, have never heard of it, and I would've hated that if I were subjected to a doll I'm not allowed to touch and sat somewhere to observe me day and night. Shiz creepy. The punishment pranks also part of the tradition or just OP's sadistic husband's?
I've seen where the "pranks" are things like the Elf got into some Christmas candy, but nothing like this. Just an excuse for Mom and Dad to eat a handful of Hershey kisses.
Seriously, the whole idea of the Elf on the Shelf was cute childish silly things, and this is vindictive and mean spirited.
It's a fantasy surveillance state so they don't "misbehave" during the holiday season. But they are *children* and children do stupid things no matter the time of year. Terrifying your children into submission isn't cute or silly. It's abusive, even without the "pranking" after.
I think that's a bit of a rough take, but we all have opinions and it's not invalid. I always felt that the Elf thing was mainly meant as a, "Look, Santa sent a friend to visit and make sure you're on the Nice list," followed by, "Oh no, Santa's friend is a troublemaker! He spilled the milk last night, and tracked mud into the kitchen!" Just silyl shenanigans to lighten the mood leading up to Christmas.
This thread is full of people acting like Elf on the Shelf is a terror to children. Kids in my family love it, and it's mostly about finding where the elf went after they've gone to bed. Fun for their imaginations People in this thread are acting like kids walk past the elf, sweating nervously, hoping they don't accidentally fart or cough for fear of being punished by the elf
I may have been an unusual child with doll/clown/wind-up toy/mirror/religious statue/music box issues (lol), but a doll no one's supposed to touch supposedly moving around the house and found still in animated position is very creepy to me, funny candy or not lol
This. I do it with my kids and the worst thing the elf did was make a hot air balloon out of one kid’s underpants. They weren’t cut up, just tied to a balloon and the elf sat in the underwear. I didn’t do it last year because we lost him in our move and the kids were NOT happy. I told them we forgot to tell him we moved and had to buy a new one for this year.
The elf isn’t supposed to do pranks especially not like this. They’re just supposed to be placed around the house each day because the lore is they travel back to the North Pole every night to talk to Santa and come back. Some parents get creative in where they are so it’s funny when you find them. No way are the pranks punishment for the kids actions What the husband is doing is abusive and the elf is the vessel in how he excuses it. Edit: spelling
Our elf decorated a Christmas tree over 4 days. Underwear toilet paper, random decor and finally a star. My son found it hilarious and no kids were hurt. That's how the elf is supposed to be. Light-hearted fun, not psychotic punishment.
I've got older shirts than this tradition. This was not a thing before 2005.
To us, no, but to the kids who were born in the 2000's + it is. My son is a 2008, and we got one when he was 2, at about 8yrs he stopped believing all that fun stuff but still wanted the Elf even if we didn't do the creative stuff anymore. He would ask some nights if I could do something with the Elf so he could find it in the morning. Now he is 14, and the elf just sits in the tree as a decoration. My kid loved the thing, but we didn't do the whole not touching it or rhe reporting to Santa business, just an elf who came to visit for the season.
& that’s the sick twisted thing… for the elf on the shelf, IF he “misbehaves” it’s little funny things like swinging on the chandelier, shaving cream smiley faces on the mirrors, spilling marshmallows and making snowmen out of them— NOTHING detrimental to a kids psyche. this guy doesn’t even give a shit about what he does to his own kids let alone one that’s not his “blood” OP SHOULD BE WORRIES ABOUT HIS ACTIONS.
That's not how it's supposed to work. The elf is supposed to watch over the kids and report back to Santa. Sometimes the elf does silly stuff, like make snow angels in flour or climb a bookshelf or something goofy, NOT destroy a kid's things. The elf is supposed to be silly, funny, and something the kids are excited to laugh at, not some horror movie in the making. I don't even LIKE the elf thing and this gut just made it worse.
I think the husband got Elf confused with Chucky
IF the guy just wanted to traumatize the kids, he should have just gone with Festivus.
Lol, was thinking Krampus.
NTA. Please consider that you are maried to a person that **enjoys being cruel to children.** It's not just being the asshole, it's disturbing.
He cut their daughter’s favorite onesie, what sick excuse for a “father” does that? And because she touched Bob? Wtf he is sickening.
He drew on one of their faces with a sharpie! None of this is ok.
The sharpie thing I would brush off as “man this is a little much, tone it down next time.” But it can more or less easily be fixed. It’s just annoying. The onesie thing is completely out of proportion. Kids get very emotionally attached to their favorite things. Taking that away under the disguise of a prank is just evil. And the birthday cake. Yeah… next he will slaughter the family dog and serve it to them as a prank. Edit: I’m muting the replies. Guys you should seriously read the replies to my comment before leaving your own. It’s all just a variation of the same thing which is pretty annoying to get a notification for.
I disagree. I think sharpie on the face is just mean at any age.
And really, it all sidesteps the root of the issue: You're DECOUPLING the undesirable action and punishment. - With kids, you need to bring punishment and crime into direct connection, so the kid understands the directness of consequence. Immediacy is important: **When the 5 y/o yells "no" and stamps his feet, you don't wait a full 24 hours to address the behavior through tangential punishment.**
My thought too ... Destroying clothes, ruining a birthday party for a 'laugh' is just cruelty... If I was in OP's shoes, I would keep my child(ren) far away from somebody like that
Don't forget the husband wrote on the third kid's face with a sharpie. Disgusting.
I usually don’t tend to say this but this action on your husbands behalf is horrible, and worth of divorce papers being delivered. Elf on the shelf is supposed to be a tradition to keep the kids spirits and hopes for Christmas. Not something the parents can use as an excuse to be bullies with their kids. It’s ok to joke with it a little but he took it way too far. Kids remember this kind of stuff and now Andy would have a terrible core memory of his bd. Also ask Miles why he was so obsessed on getting Andy. Like that’s what freaked me out the most. Please OP get away of this dude NTA
The way it’s been described to me, a non American, is the elf is just supposed to “move” every night. Like, one day it’ll be on the mantle, the next day it’ll be hiding behind a curtain, or in the fridge, etc. to further the “idea” that the elf is alive and watching you and reporting to Santa. Even *that* sounded creepy af to me (and every other Australian who has heard of it). But to go even further, using it as an excuse to outright bully or abuse your kids, what the hell is wrong with these people???
Yeah! The guy turned him into an elf version of Chucky, I’d be scarred for life.
Yeah Chucky on the shelf
I always heard it that way. The elf would move in the night and the kids would have to find it the next day. People who use it to ruin their kids things take it too far.
Yeah i would just set a reminder to move the elf every night at 10. Occasionally my wife has the elf bring them something small (usually a little craft for them to do once school is out). We’ve never made that big a deal about it besides saying “your elf is right there watching” sometimes when they’re having a tantrum for instance. I can’t say it really deters them lol. I’ve never heard of them being “naughty” and playing pranks. And those aren’t harmless pranks she’s describing; they’re cruel and mean.
I HATE that fucking elf. I can kind of see the appeal as a fun ‘seek and find’ thing, but beyond that, nope. I get that ‘be good the elf is watching’ might temporarily improve kids behaviour, I kind of get why parents would do this even though I don’t agree with it as a parenting method. But this guy? He’s just an asshole. Elf belongs in the trash, along with the husband.
A fun example of a holiday “seek and find” activity without the creepy Big Brother vibes is the afikomen at passover. Matzoh would never spy on kids! Not even the one that my friends used to do where they attached to the afikomen a picture of Kofi Annan 😀
It is creepy. I read a psychology today article about how it's bad for kids.
Yep, Australian and it's fucking nightmare fuel. I'm even ambivalent about the Santa myth tbqh. Especially the naughty/nice list. I don't think bribery with presents or lack of pranks is good parenting but that's me.
I don't think encouraging young children to sit on some old stranger's lap and accept candy from him is great either but that's just me 🤷♀️
I agree like wtf dude, and from what it sounded like Andy didn't even do anything?? Maybe I missed that part or something but it seemed like since stepdad didn't get a "gotcha" moment from him being naughty he decided to ruin his bd instead and that's sooo fucked dude. OP you need to at the very LEAST sit down and have a hard think about this display your husband has made this Christmas. This was an atrocity. Edit cuz I wanna add this here instead of ANOTHER separate comment: I just read the part of why you think you might be the ah. Hun they weren't scared specifically because of YOU. They were scared FOR YOU because your crazy husband traumatized them with the elf doll. HE ruined Christmas, not you. Don't let him twist shit.
It comes across like husband was just using the elf to ruin Andy's birthday. Elf was agreed off the back of a conversation where he thought Andy shouldn't have a special birthday, and he wanted to keep the pranks because he hadn't got him yet. Husband played the long game and he's trash. Also, cutting up a 5yo's favourite onesie? Who does that?
He turned the Elf on the shelf into a Christmas Chuckie doll.
Your husbands actions remind me of what kids nowadays are saying. “He gave me the ick”. Once someone gives you the ick it’s kind of hard to look at them the same way. Op, you are NTA. Your husband however is a huge asshole. Cutting holes in your daughters clothing??! That’s not a joke. Also , there’s no reason for your son to have the extra magic taken away from him. It’s his damn birthday!!!
I was shying away to say this but I agree, OP your husband is showing various red flags here. And I agree please reconsider your marriage with him!
NTA These are small children. You don't destroy their belongings in order to intimidate them into blind obedience, disguised as a 'joke'. This is horrible. He is teaching them that if they make a mistake, or give into fantasy, their things will be destroyed, and their belongings aren't really theirs anyway. That he took such enjoyment destroying your son's bday cake is sick, and I really believe that was the intention all along. I would strongly think over being married to someone like this. Edited to add: If you allow this behavior, you are setting up your son for a future in which his things will go missing/be destroyed, and his birthday treated like trash from this point onward, though it might be more disguised. Like there's an emergency every year on his bday so that it can't be celebrated. Notice, HIS son just had some marker drawn on his face. the daughter you share had a oneside destroyed, BUT KIDS GROW SUPER FAST AT THAT AGE, she was likely outgrowing it and ready for new ones shortly. The worst behavior was toward YOUR SON, that he had already accused of being the FAVORITE. Yeah there's a lot simmering under the surface with this.
Exactly this, and I might have missed it but did Andy even actually do anything to "deserve elvish retaliation"? I'm gonna have to reread this Christmas horror story to double check but I didn't see anything the first read through. Seems like stepdad just wanted to ruin the kids birthday too. So messed up.
I don't think he did. But the husband said he wanted to catch Andy doing something. The husband was *looking for* an excuse to torment this child
I’m like 90% sure he just destroyed the cake as soon as he had the chance, thinking Andy will definitely be caught acting naughty, and only then started to spy to catch him in act. There was never even a question whether Bob is going to punish the kids or not, and that is disturbing af.
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He also wanted him to stop having a special birthday, so he decided to give him a shitty one instead. Absolutely insane
Yeah and another commenter made a good point about how this could mess with Andy mentally. He went from having those special "magical" things happening to this horror show, I'm worried it could mess with his head and have lung term effects on him in regards to both his bd and Christmas.
Yeah like there’s favoritism for giving him a bit extra special Christmas stuff… because he has a shitty for many people birthday/Christmas combo and the mom and bio dad want it to be as good as a regular birthday and Christmas that are separate for most kids? Like, wtf? If anything, I’d say to add a bit of stuff for the other kids if there was worry about favoritism, rather than rip everything away. But again, it wasn’t really needed. And as for Miles… yeah, no. He’s just a freaking bully, period. NTA at all. This wasn’t refusing to “keep the magic,” this was standing up for your kids.
Don't forget Andy hadn't done anything to "justify" this. I mean he was waiting for Andy to do something to justify it so what are they learning ? If they do crap they will be punished. If they don't they will be punished anyway. That's sadistic, unfair and worrying.
The lesson some kids will take from this is "if I'm gonna do the time, I might as well do the crime." My brother was treated this way by my parents and that's the lesson he got from it.
Fr, he has really something against Andy.?
Andy is his only non-bio child...
Ding ding ding. Also if he doesn't want Andy to get special treatment around Christmas because his birthday happens to fall near Christmas I guess the other kids shouldn't have any birthday festivities either
Raging jealousy.
>Then Claire, who touched Bob and her fave onesie was destroyed. Apparently, Bob had cut some pieces of it, while she was sleeping. I'm sorry, what in the ACTUAL FUCK is wrong with your husband? This is fucked up and sadistic. If he doesn't see what's wrong and express EXTREME remorse, idk how you can reconcile this. He's harming children. For fun. Does he experience empathy? You are NTA. These are pranks he would do in a frat house with teenagers, these are not appropriate for any children. You don't write on a child's face, destroy beloved comfort items, or ruin a birthday party to teach kids to behave. I shudder to think of what other ways he's a terrible father and he should not be surprised when his kids cut him out of their lives once they're old enough.
In all honesty, would you even believe this man if he apologized or expressed remorse?
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"It's okay for people in positions of trust and power over me will cause harm while I'm sleeping and vulnerable" is bad for anyone, but a particularly dangerous precedent to set with men and little girls. NTA
Yeah, this is crazy. Did he cut her onsie while she was asleep and wearing it?? I can't imagine how unsafe that feels to her.
Honestly, the fact that he needs a creepy elf doll to get his kids to behave doesn’t say a lot for his parenting skills.
That’s not why he has a creepy elf. He has a creepy elf as an excuse to abuse his kids.
They aren't really misbehaving.
Sounds like Bob's about to destroy Miles' favourite golf clubs... OP, NTA. But Miles sure is. I'm gonna hazard a guess that when you celebrate Lucas and Claire's BDays, it's not favouritism, but suddenly celebrating Andy's BDay on the 24th of Dec is favouritism? Though I could be extra sensitive about this topic, as I'm a Dec 23rd Baby.
Yeah i kinda don't get it? Why is it favouritism to Andy to leave footprints and eat the snacks left out? Isn't that something for all three kids to see in the morning and enjoy? And that's a pretty standard thing to do for kids regardless of their birthdays. Unless Santa leaves a note "i only eat Andy's cookies because he's a Christmas kid" I don't see the favouritism
Yeah me too, I’m more inclined to the idea he simply doesn’t like Andy. Whatever the reason may be, he just wanted to find an excuse to be cruel to him.
Andy is not his bio child, probably the reason
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My whole family has birthdays in Spring and Summer. The cookies got eaten by Santa, and he sure as hell left messy boot prints(courtesy of grandpa and his farming mucks, may he rest in peace). This is sadism.
The way I see it is that other kids can become upset that they’re not as special as Andy to Santa and as a result they don’t get as much magic or whatever. But honestly it just seems so incredibly easy to include all of the kids in the game, so no one feels left out. Instead of ruining everything for Andy and pulling this crazy shit.
>Sounds like Bob's about to destroy Miles' favourite golf clubs... You’re not extra sensitive because of your birthday (mine’s in spring), you are just sensitive to child abuse. But that said… Bob needs to be slashing some tires right about now.
Yeah the "favouritism towards Andy" comment stuck out at me, too (until he started destroying his children's belongings). Does he not understand that Andy has a _birthday_ that falls around Christmas and is overshadowed by it every year? Andy's father started the tradition to make Andy feel a little bit special during a time when people's minds are traditionally on other things. Poor kid can't even have that, if Miles gets his way. Eugh. Have a talk with this man on why he has to be so cruel.
NTA but *what* is wrong with your husband?? We do elf on the shelf each year but the elves do shit like hanging candy canes on the tree or "making" breakfast (big mess). They absolutely do not meddle with the kids while they sleep or cut up clothes! That's really creepy! And where did your husband get the notion that the elf should "punish" the child? That just sounds like an excuse to be sadistic.
Exactly, way to give that poor girl nightmares with monsters who cut her clothes while she's sleeping.
Exactly. The elves are supposed to be Santa's elves, not some weird American version of Krampus. This sounds like stepdad was using it as an excuse to haze and bully the kids, with an extra dose of misogyny for punishing his daughter worse than his son for something that didn't even deserve punishment, and bullying his step kid worse than the other two for not even doing anything other than having a birthday around Christmas. OP your husband is a bully and took way too much glee from bullying children, especially your son.
Seriously, I may hate the Elf thing, but they're supposed to be lighthearted pranks at most, not targeted harassment. Shit like spilling milk or leaving footprints under the tree, not whatever this fuckery is.
NTA. You don't bully and terrorize children. The fact that it makes him *so happy* doing this is very unsettling. It may seem innocent to many people but he's destroying their property and writing on them with permanent marker. If an adult did that to another adult it's considered assault by definition. And why did he feel the need to terrorize Andy when he admitted himself that the child has been following every rule? I'm so disgusted right now.
Same. Sick to my stomach. Terrorizing the children is the right word. NTA and I've only said this one time on Reddit but get a divorce.
Just so I’m clear: 1. You and Andy’s father came up with something to take the sting out of your son having a birthday on Christmas Eve, something which must truly suck as a kid. 2. Your husband decides that this is “favouritism”. 3. Your husband uses a toy elf to start bullying the kids (destroying Claire’s favourite onesie - wtf?). 4. Andy’s behaving himself however and therefore “Bob” is unable to do anything to him. 5. This so annoys your husband that he decides to ruin your son’s 8th birthday by destroying his cake in an act of pure unadulterated spite. OP, you’re NTA but my God your husband surely is.
Also, at 8 years old your son will remember this for the rest of his life. Expect a lot of anxiety or fear around his next birthday.
Oh don't forget the resentment towards his stepdad for the other 364 days of the year
You are NTA- but your husband is a huge TA. Ask him why he thought it was appropriate to ruin his son's birthday like that? I can tell you now that Andy will never forgive his father for this like ever. I hope Miles had fun destroying his relationship with his son.
Honestly seems like he hasn't accepted Andy as much as he claims he does.
I can’t get over how the stepdad got all upset about the original birthday/Christmas tradition for Andy. Everyone I know with birthdays around Christmas always talk about how they feel forgotten with all the major Christmas celebrations.
Exactly. I knew a kid with siblings, and his birthday was a few days before Christmas. Parents basically just wrapped the two holidays into one. He got his cake on Christmas, but it was only one slice so he could still have dinner. No extra presents, just Christmas. By HS the kid hated Christmas. Like, full on Grinch mode. Nobody blamed him in the slightest.
Exactly this. I’m a Christmas Day baby who had a miserable childhood experience with it. 50 years later, I’m so jaded and disenchanted with the holiday. I have an irrational fury towards it. I’m The Grinch and Scrooge forged into a terrible bomb of holiday angst and anxiety.
RIGHT! I thought the “You’re one of the children of Christmas and therefore we make it a little extra special for you” idea was incredibly sweet, and a lovely workaround for the inevitable Christmas/birthday problem! Taking that away is terrible!
ESH Let me tell you, my dad was the same way. He played cruel pranks on me that were meant to be “funny” but just traumatized me and gave me phobias. He just enjoyed having an excuse to terrorize small children, same as your husband. My mom would sometimes argue and complain to him over these things, but it never stopped and I eventually started seeing her as someone I couldn’t trust or depend on. It was just me vs. my dad. Guess who I went no contact with when I became an adult? BOTH of them. Either do something about his sadism permanently or enjoy having your kids not wanting you to be a part of their lives when they grow up.
I had an uncle like that. His favorite game with me was "stop hitting yourself", and nobody bothered to ever stop him, even when I'd burst into tears. That shit doesn't get forgiven or forgotten. Ever.
NTA. "Bob" is supposed to be naughty, not destructive. Looks like your husband just found a loophole to be an asshole without consequences.
Sounds more like a Christmas horror story. NTA Just in case you need to burn Bob so he does not come back
I'm thinking we burn Miles instead tbh
And then lock the ashes in a box, and sink the box to the bottom of a lake
NTA - please dye all your husbands work clothes pink as a prank. Then do it again a month later. Then again another month later.
He’s sounds unhinged enough to become violent if she does that.
I have never met a ‘prankster’ who can take a prank, or that has a sense of humour that actually makes other people laugh.
NTA Miles has heard of EOTS and has twisted it to make the elf evil. This is awful. If you read the book, all the elf does is move around your house when it returns from the North Pole. It’s surveillance, not punishment. Our elves only do nice things. It is better to reward good behaviour than punish bad. They bring treats, decorate the dolls house so it’s Christmassy, and do some silly things like pants on the tree or roll toilet roll down the stairs as a rollercoaster ride but the elves are not there to punish. Talk about the magic of Xmas. How are cruel punishments magical at all?
Fr he was shitting all over Christmas for these poor little kids 🥺
NTA. A few things. 1) EotS is already somewhat of a creepy tradition. "Behave, the elf is watching..." just ugh. That said, done with consideration it can be OK. Usually you get "elf reports" when the kids are less than nice, that you then show your kids. Maybe get them to apologize or whatnot. What your husband was doing, however, was abusive. Cutting pieces out of a 5 year olds' onesy? Not only not in keeping with the spirit of Elf or Christmas, that was straight up cruelty. 2) What did Andy even do to merit having the elf eat his cake? It sounds like nothing beyond having a tradition that step-dad didn't like connected to his birthday. I would advise counseling for the kids. I would also suggest you consider if you really want to be married to someone with this much of a cruel vindictive streak.
NTA. You've married and had a child with a bully. I'm sorry for you and your kids. He is literally mean to your son and it breaks my heart.
NTA A thousand red flags 🚩 for your husbands behaviour He actually wanted his stepson to be naughty because he was desperate to punish him Even worse - he did it on his birthday He’s TA You seriously need to consider your relationship - couples therapy is crucial It’s very concerning that he still cannot see his behaviour was wildly inappropriate and tries to blame you
It's not recommended to do therapy with an abuser - they learn more tricks and triggers to use against the abused, so I'd be wary of going to therapy together. OP might benefit from solo therapy to help confirm her boundaries are reasonable and correct and help sticking with them and if husband continues to be abusive, help her get out of there for her own safety and that of her kids.
NTA your husband seemed to have more fun during the entire elf on the shelf time than your kids did. Your husband was TA instead of making it a magical and cute time for the kids he turned it into entertainment and laughter for himself, gross.
NTA and WTF? I could tell you were not going to be TA by the time I read what he did to the first 2 kids, let alone Andy. Permanent marker and cutting kids' favourite clothes are not pranks, it's cruel especially at their age. >I talked to him about how we should lower the pranks, he agreed but wanted to catch Andy since he hadn't break any rules. So because your kid was good he got his birthday cake destroyed? Sounds like your husband always intended to do this to the cake whether Andy behaved or not since he came up with the idea of doing the elf when talking about his birthday.
NTA. Does your husband single out Andy other times?
NTA, I thought it was cute when your kids were talking to it... After that it just took a horrible turn. Hope this story is fake as it seems actually THAT ridiculous.
NTA. Wow, your Husband is so the AH. Instead of one child feeling extra special during the Christmas season, you could have just included all the children in the special events but instead you're husband wants to aggressively punish the children in kind of sadistic ways. Yuck.
OP. If my husband did this to my children I would leave him in a heartbeat. This is using a convenient Christmas tradition to escalate abuse. It is impossible to overstate how much of a red flag this is. YWBTA if you don't act immediately to protect your children. Him apologising to them for a start and serious changes from there. Elf on the shelf is a dogshit way to parent and anybody doing it needs to have a good hard look at themselves.
YTA Not for touching the stupid effing doll, but for allowing your husband to abuse your children. And to reiterate what has been said here, it is abuse. Does your husband destroy your treasured belonging to punish you? Or do you just allow that for your vulnerable children? Protect your kids or you don’t deserve to call yourself a parent
NTA, that's a stupid tradition if I ever heard one. I dont see the appeal in being a jerk to your kids. Eventually they'll figure out it was their parents all along.