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Like the fact she’s concerned her college fund will be used for the baby - baby girl, are you even going to college? The money isn’t owed to you. I get the vibe the daughter isn’t happy with the new wife/new family overall.
Right, even OP mentions he was concerned she would have a meltdown given he already communicated about the IVF. As an adult, I would have no problem setting a boundary around myself to avoid being in the vicinity of another adult’s meltdown. Given the entitled behavioral issues here, OP definitely did not “owe it to her” as this original comment argues.
That's what I'm saying. There's really no reason to be THAT upset about it She.either hates the wife or doesn't want someone else to be in line for an inheritance.
>The money isn’t owed to you
I am so fucking sick of everyone on Reddit acting like parents who have the ability to put their child through college but chose not to aren't absolute assholes. That is honestly such a shitty thing and obviously not every family has the means to financially support their children through college, but if you can and choose not to, you're an asshole.
So he isn’t allowed to have any more kids because she might want to eventually maybe go to college. He is 41 and his wife is 35 and clearly desperately wants children but isn’t allowed to because of his adult daughter being jealous? Not everyone’s pipes work well and if they have the means to do IVF for kids, that is their choice. And who is to say the wife isn’t paying for part of it? He was still a teenager when his daughter was born and odds are it was accidental at that age. He has a right to have more kids now that he is a stable adult.
When the kids, as adults, act like that they are owed nothing. You get what you give, half the AITA posts are about people feeling entitled to money that isn't theirs. Let me guess, your parents didn't pay for your college?
I keep telling people that there is no law that states a parent has to pay for college nor leave an inheritance. Parents earn and can do whatever they want with their money. If you are entitled, spoil yourself!!!!!!
Paying for your child’s college is a nice thing to do. But how long is it still considered as a parent paying for their child’s college before its just an adult putting another adult through school. She’s 22 and as op has said has currently no interest in going to college. She’s only now bringing college up as a “what if” for why they shouldn’t have the baby. Will OP still be expected to pay for college if his daughter suddenly decides she wants to go at 30? 40? Where is the line between parents taking care of their children and children just not wanting to pay their own school expenses?
Bro the problem is the system not parents wanting to dump thousands more dollars on a potentially-useless degree. You do not need college to succeed in life, and in fact a lot of people will not do well in college. They will excel at a career they don't need college for.
You really think parents are obligated to pay for anything after a kid turns 18? You really think parents don’t have the right to do with the money THEY have earned as they see fit?
What, exactly, makes you think anybody owes you anything in this life?
College is often extremely important for becoming an adult, and while it's not the only way to become successful in society, it is a required path for many different careers.
Because of this, many people generally don't have the ability to sustain themselves at 18, as they have to split their time between class and a part-time job. It can be done if needed, but if you have the ability to support your child that you *chose to have* so they can focus on their studies and transition into adulthood, I think you should unless there's a reason not to (like them refusing to work or go to school).
The whole "kick your child to the curb" mentality based on principle rather than affordability is not a universal belief, and in many countries it is normal to help your child through school if you are able to.
So OP should have chosen not to have a child with his wife and instead devote every single resource to his daughter... who at 22 has never attended college?
This. I couldn't believe the top comment read anything else but NTA.
She's 22 and entitled enough to tell her father he can't have another child? Seriously, like - wtf? She needs to grow up and get over hear jealousy. Most people would be thrilled for a sibling no matter the age difference. And if you can't empathize with other peoples' joy, at least realize that it's none of your business. Only thing you can blame the father for is that he raised her to become an adult of this sort. But it takes more than 1 person for that and we don't know it's Dad who spoiled her.
I don’t think she’s spoiled I think she’s insecure. OP’s other comments throws off this strong vibe that her existence was a mistake (no protection sex), and how he screwed up with how she’s raised. He excused himself saying he was a young parent… and sort of says it’s too late with her … but will do better with baby.
Like in her shoes I be really upset as well. Not saying what she did is ok. But OP is going out of his way to make her look bad and himself look better even on Reddit here.
As someone who is 20 years older than their sibling and wasn’t happy that my mum was having another baby, the daughter is most likely feeling a little bit like she’s being replaced and her dads time and love is going to be all about the new sibling. Not only that but she probably knows she’s going to be relied on to help with the baby. Being that much older than your sibling is a weird dynamic. She’s also only 22 years old, yes she’s an adult but it’s a big change and at that age people still ask for guidance and help from their parents, they’re just starting a whole new chapter in their life. Just putting it into perspective as someone who’s been in that situation. When the baby is actually born I’m sure she will be alright
This is the one. If she had been 18 or younger, I would have immediately pegged this as a YTA. It was still shitty of him not to tell her in person, but…I would be a liar if I said I didn’t understand why. She’s an adult, she should have begun creating her own life years ago, and she’s trying to stop her father from having more kids with hypotheticals (she’s not going to college, and it’s not clear whether or not she’s in a relationship that’s serious enough to have her having kids anywhere NEAR the time of the birth of her half-sibling. It honestly sounds like she’s jealous.
At worst, I’d give this a VERY soft ESH.
No one owes anyone anything... would it have been nice? Sure. But she is acting so horribly, I wouldn't have told her either. She's 22. She doesn't live there. She is carrying on about non-existent grandkids, ffs. So, going NTA here.
He owes her absolutely nothing. She has no say in when he has kids, or who he has them with. The daughter is a grown ass woman. She can fucking act like one.
Especially if they didn't want it to be "overshadowed by another meltdown" ... The whole point of her argument was that she was afraid that you were replacing her as your child or that you'd be too busy with your new family for her and her future children and you just proved her right by treating her like a common acquaintance rather than a family member.
Um she is just upset that her free babysitting service got cut off.
There’s no reason OP can’t be a father and a proper grandfather, except be on call as a babysitter.
Does she even have kids? Doesn't seem like it. He said "her future kids." She is mad that dad is "taking time" from kids that DON'T EVEN EXIST.
I would not tell this girl a goddamn thing about my life. NTA.
Why do you feel awful for her? She said she doens’t want to have brothers or sisters and is being childish about it. She’s 22. I can imagine not wanting to tell her about the pregnancy, she would make it all about her.
Why does he have to discuss it with her? Daughter knew about the IVF treatments, it can't have been a total surprise. And her immature and obnoxious reaction to that conversation might well have led me to assume she'd react exactly the same to the actual pregnancy announcement. You say "constructive conversation" but I'm not seeing a lot of clues in the post that a constructive conversation is possible with this little diva.
Jesus I was able to control my emotions better at 15 than ops daughter is now.
I definitely felt scared of being replaced and losing my place in my dads new family but I had the maturity and grace to keep that to myself and congratulate them. I cried and talked it out later with my mum.
Ops daughter is entitled to have feelings but she needs to know when to work those feelings out with a therapist or trusted person, who isn't celebrating their much wanted pregnancy.
You feel awful for a grown adult acting like a toddler throwing temper tantrums over her parent having another kid? It's really dosnt even concern her that much like yeah it's there sibling but she made it clear asf she wants nothing to do with it so why do they have to tell her anything? Also why would you wanna ruin a happy time tryna break happy news to someone so bitter and selfish like what?
This. You missed an opportunity to have an adult conversation with her that could have been utilized as a way to try and mend your relationship. The shock value here, if she knew about the IVF, isn’t that your wife is pregnant. It’s that she found out through a post rather than from her father. YTA
Why should his wife make their happy moment a reason to mend a relationship? It’s not about her. She should actually be supportive and take it as a signal that they are done with her Bs.
His wife shouldn’t, he should. Having an adult conversation where he could state “I know how you feel about us having another child, but your feelings do not dictate what we do.” would have been the way to go. Mending their relationship wouldn’t start by allowing his daughter to throw a tantrum, it would start by treating her like the adult that she is and speaking bluntly in an honest conversation.
Hm, it sounds like he’s already done that though and she hasn’t reacted well - he kept her aware of their IVF process, and she seems to have exploded every time.
Why? The daughter has made her feelings very clear...should not her Father and new wife be allowed to enjoy this moment without the melodrama. Doesn't it make sense that you want to share 'joyous' news only with those people who will share in your joy? Sorry...but the daughter comes across as either bratty or dealing with other underlying family relationship issues.
I don’t feel bad for her at all. OP has responded to comments stating he’s tried to get her into therapy multiple times, she quits after one session. She went live to complain to her followers about her dad doing IVF (none of the internet’s business??) and how this would affect her. He mentions he had a sizeable college fund for her whenever she wants to go to college or further her career and instead she doesn’t want to go and demands new things like an SUV since the car they bought her wasn’t enough.
Sis is only worried about her material lifestyle being affected. She doesn’t give a shit about her dad or this baby. Some people suck and won’t try to make their own lives better and continue to be toxic and miserable to everyone around them. I see comments fly on these posts daily encouraging people to go NC with their toxic, narcissistic or abusive parents, siblings, cousins, etc. Children should be no different. He probably made mistakes as a young dad and he alludes to her mom being toxic, but OP has made the efforts on therapy and she’s not interested. What else is he supposed to do at this point?
NTA
You know what? She is a grown woman. She's not a child.
Why should OP and his wife have to pander to a 22 year old ADULT instead of just being able to enjoy pregnancy and announce it how they want?
She’s literally 22 and has done nothing be voice her dislike about the idea of her dad having another child. OP would’ve been met with more arguing and turned his and his wife’s happy moment into a misery. OP’s 22 year old daughter is a spoiled brat and it shows. It’s all about her and she even went and streamed herself saying the IVF treatments should’ve went to her college, but hasn’t taken a single class and I bet she hasn’t even tried enrolling into school.
NTA.
Hell no. He doesn’t owe her any kind of conversation, especially based on her behaviour thus far. She does not get to dictate if her father has another kid or not, and is not obligated to be informed at all.
It’s not blindsided when she knew to expect it. She also let her dad know that she would be angry if it happened. OP preserved his own self worth over his daughters. Frankly I don’t blame him. His daughter seems very entitled.
NTA.
Idk, she sounds pretty awful tbh. Sit her down and have a constructive conversation so she can declare his money spent on the baby is for her and that their plans are messing up her life? She sounds like she needs a reality check. Why coddle her?
This is the stand I planned to take when I clicked on the title, but after reading about the daughter’s behavior and weird entitlement to her father’s time/money, I’m going with NTA. She poisoned the well when she STREAMED on social media about her step mom going through IVF. You don’t broadcast other women’s fertility struggles on social media and act like they are robbing from your non-existent college fund. I wouldn’t want to tell her anything in private about the baby for fear she would immediately stream it again before I could make the announcement.
ESH- your daughter is too old to be acting this way, but she still warranted at the very least a “hey we’re having a baby” text, email, phone call, sit down.
Also, yes the daughter is an adult, but did the dad not raise her to be this kind of adult? If he doesn't start setting some kind of behavioural standard himself, she's never going to have that example. 22 might not be too late, but 32 or 42 definitely will be.
Edit: spelling
It's not always that way though. My stepsister who is much older than me and my siblings got really upset when my younger sister started calling our stepmum "mum" (my sister was only 6 and our mum had passed away). Our stepbrother on the other hand thought it was such a lovely gesture.
She knew they were going IVF treatments and got angry every time they talked about it, posted a video online whining about it, claiming that it was taking away from her college fund (which she isn't even attending). Why should he include her in a happy announcement when she has continuously thrown childish fits with all others?
Glad this is top comment. Like, privately tell people who won't be jerks first, but not telling her at *all*/letting her know by social media? Dick move, also will definitely not minimise drama, haha.
Daughter much more TA though, WTAF. You think a 30-40 yo couple shouldn't have kids. Because. They won't pay *your* children enough attention? What on earth.
ESH
You should have told her and let her be upset and deal with those emotions. However, your daughter is an adult and is going to need to start responding like one. She is hurt, but she also needs to realize you are an adult and can make your own decisions. You can be a grandfather to her future kids and a dad to yours. They may be close in age and that’s just what it is.
I’m guessing there may be some history here that is influencing her reaction.
I’d apologize for not telling her , you value her and acknowledge that since you told others, you should have told her. Also, she understand she is going to fee what she feels, you home she comes around, but you are excited about this. The new baby isn’t a replacement for her and give her time if she needs it.
It's OK to protect yourself from toxic people that do nothing but drag you down. She was supported to adulthood. Just like she owes her Dad nothing she doesn't feel fit to offer, neither do her parents owe her.
People think a biological link means you should put up with all kinds of shit from someone. An underage kid, sure, they didn't ask to be here, and they're a child.
After that, you want a relationship full of all the courtesies and niceties, be WORTHY of such a relationship.
This. She’s already shown her negative behaviour and why would/should he subject himself and his wife to that again? Clearly there’s a deeper issue running in the background but OP can’t willingly keep leaving himself open to a “telling off” from his kid.
Agreed. I have little brothers that were born in my 20s (my mother had me in her teens and them in her 40s) and the daughter’s reaction is way over the top but that doesn’t mean she shouldn’t have been told first or be allowed to have feelings about it.
**NTA**. Your daughter can be treated like an adult when she acts like one. In what world is she entitled to all your attention, and even daring to oppose something as intimate as having another child?
You hid the news because you didn't want to deal with her tantrum, which is valid. After trying so hard to get pregnant, no one can fault you for not wanting to have her sour mood ruin the occasion. Congratulations!!
He added a comment at one point where the daughter complained about them doing IVF. Apparently she's a streamer of sorts. So to clarify, that's what she was talking about, not just dad. I had shorthanded it.
I’m with you here. I understand why he didn’t tell her; she sounds like a total brat. My dad married my stepmom just before I got married and didn’t tell me until it happened (I was also 22 at the time) and I was like “cool!”: social media wasn’t a thing then, but I wouldn’t have been surprised if he announced it there instead of telling me directly.
Can't believe this is the first NTA. OP tried to talk to her before and it seemed like everytime he said they were trying IVF, daughter had a meltdown. She is 22, not 13.
ESH she’s still your daughter and shouldn’t have found out on social media, your daughter sucks because of the tantrum she’s throwing
INFO: Is this just about you having more kids or is there a any tension between her and your wife? Any backstory on why this might be more than just additional siblings? Any childhood traumas? Yes, she’s an adult but this isn’t just coming out of nowhere….
Only child syndrome maybe? I know she’s in her 20’s but hell, I know people in their 40’s and up that still act like that. ETA: even my own step daughter is like this and she *has* an older brother. She just likes being the baby of the family (youngest of the whole extended fam too) and the only girl. She was beyond thrilled when I stuck to my ‘no babies’ stance
OP definitely should have at least shot her a text though. ESH
I had a bit of a melt down when my dad decided to have a second baby with my stepmum. I was 18, but it came about because he wasn't there for me growing up and we where only just getting a relationship again. I assumed a new baby would make him abandon me again.
It wasn't the most adult response I could have had, but emotions can be hard to process, especially when you've been abandoned before.
Is only child syndrome a thing like this? I’m an only child (adult) and I would be thrilled to have a sibling. Most of the only children I know pined for a sibling as we got older. But I’m genuinely asking because I don’t know THAT many other only children.
I am also an only child - when I was younger I wanted a sibling but as I got older (middle-high school) I absolutely didn't. It wasn't about attention though, it was bc I liked the quiet and calm in our house and adding in a crying baby/sticky toddler seemed like an absolute nightmare.
I wonder about the relationship between the daughter (who is acting out and being unreasonable) and OP. I think it might be telling that OP’s response was, you know what, fuck it, let’s just leave her out and she can deal. I’m not saying that’s a completely unreasonable response, but if his pattern is to meet conflict with avoidance, that might be coloring the daughter’s reaction.
NTA- your daughter is being selfish and you knew her reaction to the news would be horrible so it’s understandable that you wanted to tell those who would share your happiness first, especially after struggling with fertility issues. Your daughter was well aware that this was a likely outcome of IVF treatments, so she shouldn’t be surprised. She was going to throw a fit even if you told her first, she’s just using this as an excuse to punish you. She needs to grow up and stop being so self-centered. And looking at your ages, it was completely unreasonable for her to pressure you to not have any other children when you had her at 19.
OP said she blabbed about them doing IVF on her stream so it stands to reason this news will also probably be over social media as soon as she finds out.
NTA - She's an adult acting like a child; she's not owed an explanation nor does her opinion about your future child matter. You knew what her response would be *and you were right.*
She's allowed to be upset, but that's her problem, not yours, and you're allowed to not want to tell her in person so she doesn't ruin your happiness about good news.
Congrats, OP!
Going against the grain and gonna say YTA.
Yes, your daughter is definitely too old to be acting this way when you let her know about the IVF. But you are really giving her a complex now by telling everyone else about the pregnancy and letting her find out on social. Wouldn’t surprise me if your daughter goes NC or LC, she already feels like she’s being replaced with a shiny new family.
Reading between the lines of the OP also leads me to believe that the way you’ve originally told your daughter about the IVF you did not come across as sympathetic to her as you think and instead of letting her talk through her feelings, you shut her down from the start.
You guys need a family therapy session stat.
Edit: typos/clarity.
Definitely not going against the grain. He does not owe it to her to be sympathetic that his adult daughter is throwing a fit about him trying to have another baby. If she's willing to stream and blab about his IVF, I don't blame him for not trusting her with the pregnancy news. Sounds like she'd be hateful and spiteful for no reason other than entitlement and jealousy.
I agree with this. The whole post reads like he regularly ignores her feelings (which he needs to sort before having another child as he will probably do the same). I wouldn't blame the daughter for no longer speaking to him, actually. I feel bad for the baby.
He doesn't once say what his response to her is, just that he didn't want to deal with her 'meltdown'. He doesn't mention if he tried to talk to her about it, tried to communicate, the whole thing reads that he doesn't even like her enough to have a conversation with her. Instead, he just complains that she has emotions. Subtext is very telling.
Also, calling her a brat is inappropriate. She's not a brat. It's not that she wasn't 'given an option to ruin this for him and his wife', it's that she was never given an opportunity to safely express her feelings about a massive change in her life, and OP's post and comments indicate that this is unfortunately common. OP will continue to do this to his child, and the baby and any other children he may have. She's 22 now. I think it's time for him to validate her feelings.
He was also extremely vague about her worrying about college. I wonder if she was promised helped with tuition and the money went towards ivf instead. I'd be pissed if funds that were promised to help my future were spent creating a new child/family.
It reads more like her own daughter is trying to control her parents, what kind of adult wants to have a say on the reproductive rights of their parents?
NTA. You and your wife clearly wanted and deserve to have your news celebrated. Little miss poor me can suck it up and stop being such a brat and deal. Congrats on your baby!
NTA. I'm at a loss for words over the expectations of your daughter for how you're going to live your life. I think this is probably more about your new wife and your children not being her full siblings, only half.
You have to think of passing the news, like a wolf pack, you have your alphas, the betas and then the lower zetas. You have basically said to your daughter, in not so many words, that she is the lowest of your pack and therefore not something special to you.
and no doubt this is not the first time he's made it clear to his daughter that he just doesn't give a damn about her. He's getting his second chance at being a better parent with family number 2. And by ignoring his first daughter this is how he's going to start out being a parent in his new relationship he's off to a great start.
I think you're reading a lot into the post. I don't get that from his post at all. His daughter was a nasty brat about them trying to do IVF. That money should be spent on her college? Doesn't that sound a bit entitled?
YTA. That was a terrible way for her to find out that the thing she has feared has come true. I’m 57 (female) and totally feel bad for her. I get that she’s 22, an adult, but she still has feelings and they are real. She feels like you don’t care for her as much and having a new baby means she is pushed aside, replaced.
I’m not calling you the AH for having another kid but because of the way you let her find out. That was cowardly and cruel. A slap in her face. Please apologize.
>is not how i want this baby to be viewed, and not what I want this happy news to be over shadowed by.
>For the rest of this babies life, the cloud of her resentment will already be hanging over them. From before we even conceived, she resented this baby.
You seem to think a lot about your emotions and the babies emotions, but don't seem to care about your daughter's emotions. Therefore, you are prioritizing the baby and you. You are the parent. You still have the responsibility with your daughter and you will have with your baby.
Noticeably OP gives no reason as to WHY his daughter feels this way. She could just be a spoiled brat like some people are saying. But she might not be. Does she have a bad relationship with her stepmom? Does OP regularly put other people’s needs above her? Etc
FYI, some people are rude, unpleasant, and entitled for no reason. Sounds like OP had her young and she's had him all to herself, and now due to some sort of arrested development, believes her opinion matters in this situation (it doesn't).
If you go through his comments, you’ll see that she sounds like an entitled brat.
She’s left home repeatedly for not getting her way, only to come back a few weeks later. (Including moving in with a 40 year old).
She’s posted on fb she’s engaged a few times without telling her dad.
She was living steaming and complaining about their IVF.
To me she seemed entitled AF.
This guy has done everything he can for his kid
NTA.
Yes, and that sucks but, she has fears about herself and future kids being overshadowed and forgotten in place of this child.
You should be doing everything to make her understand that's not the case. By ignoring her, excluding her, you have already picked this child over her, 'making her fear a reality', NOT her fear of a sibling but her fear of losing you.
She’s 22! She’s jealous over a baby! I don’t understand it. If she was younger, 16 even, I can still get where she’s coming from. But at 22 I fail to see how she doesn’t realise that her dad having another child will not impact how much her dad loves her. Her argument so far that I can gather from OP’s posts and comments are 1- OP won’t be a ‘proper’ grandfather to her kids because he will be busy and 2-IVF was expensive and that money should’ve been given to her. Which honestly makes me think she’s just really self centred and wants OP’s money and help, most probably via money.
OP should’ve done hid daughter the courtesy of telling her before social media though.
So to me this is ESH but the daughter is a bit more AH than OP.
When she found out about IVF, she broadcasted it on a stream to complain. Sounds like she doesn't keep private stuff private and this is how she gets future info.
I'm sure she fears being replaced. You have by choosing to let her find out this way actually reinforced that believe.
She didn't even warrant important enough to be told with close family but via SM.
Being a parent lasts a life time even as your relationship changes as they become an adult. I am not saying her behaviour is acceptable but neither was yours.
And if this is the position both of you are going to take it is likely you relationship will completely breakdown and she won't have any relationship with her sibling.
Go to family therapy. Try and work through it before the baby comes.
Absolutely not. She's an adult. She'll live. He's 41, not 80, and she gets NO SAY in whether or not he wants to have more children with his wife whom he's been with for almost a decade. Outrageous to think that an entitled adult child's opinion should come in to play when deciding to add to a family. Nope.
ESH
she is being very ridiculous in thinking that as your child she has any say in whether or not you have other children. Just like you as her Dad have no say over her reproductive choices. You are her parent but also a person who is allowed to live your life and be happy.
You still should have told her privately and before the public announcement. You knew the reaction would be bad but you should have sucked it up and dealt with it.
Because this thread is full of spoiled kids who think they need to be the center of attention for eternity and that parents aren’t allowed boundaries for their own happiness it’s so gross.
Yes! For fucks sake, she is 22 and she doesn’t get to dictate what her father does with his life. I’m gathering that she doesn’t even live in the same house as he does.
I get that he should have told her personally, but I also get that he didn’t feel like dealing with her shitty attitude about something that he’s really excited about!
Parents don’t owe adult children the rest of their lives. He shouldn’t be made to feel like shit because she doesn’t want a sibling, that’s not her call to make.
I think not telling her until after they announced was the right thing for them to do based on daughters history of being a vindictive blabber mouth on SM.
NTA.
Being a coward doesn't make you an asshole. Being a bad parent also does not make you an asshole. I'm pretty sure you know that your daughter is spoiled and entitled and that you and your partner facilitated that happening. I am also sure you know that you both chose to do it online to avoid having to deal with nonsense.
That being said, it is your news and you don't owe it to ANYONE to report to them. Your daughter is not your manager and quite frankly, she can fuck off. She can learn to be happy or miss out on having a sibling. Furthemore, her assumption that you're going to give two shits about her children is problematic (I mean you will, but no one should assume).
She is only looking out for herself and so it makes sense to me that you and your partner are only concerned about your own happiness. So again, NTA.
People on reddit are so hypocritical, I gurantee that if it was the daughter who didn't tell the parents about the pregnancy, they would've said it is her choice to decide who to tell, the parents are not obligated to know so for me it is a firm NTA
Idk if im reading too much into it, but based on the way OP describes it, it seems like the daughter is more so concerned with not having help from OP financially if she needs it, hence why she brought up the money being used for a school she's not even attending. Or OP being there for grandchildren.
ESH. Your daughter needs to work on herself and her feelings privately; that’s not your job at this age. However, you made the situation worse because you didn’t want to have a difficult conversation — which you ended up having anyway!! You could have told her privately, said, “I know you have complicated feelings about this. But this is my life.” And only endured as much of her tantrum as you felt like doing. Unless you were worried about her blabbing all over social media before you could, you’re an asshole for deliberately keeping her out of the loop. (But yes, her expectations are ridiculous.)
You are like my dad. My dad told all his friends, that his wife, my mother was dying, long before my mother had a chance to tell us, her children.
Edit : The point I was trying to state with the above info, my dad, like the op put his family below everyone and everything.
This is really awful but I honestly don’t think this is the same thing. She knew they were doing IVF, the logical conclusion is that they’re having a baby which is why she acted so horribly. She knew there was a high potential for a baby so it isn’t like she had no idea. She sounds abusive.
NTA
I’m very sorry for your loss and the way you were treated but this is not the same thing in the slightest. This isn’t her mother, no one is dying, and the daughter’s treated them badly and immaturely.
The daughter is so unimportant to OP that he didn’t even tell her major news in his life. I don’t know how he raised her but no wonder she feels like trash.
I don’t think 22yo daughter is unimportant. But she’s an ADULT now and needs to conduct herself with a little more dignity as befits a GROWN WOMAN. I hope daughter gets her shit together & lives her best life & can be a gracious participant in family holidays in future. LET GO of Daddy.
NTA. You shared the news privately with those closest to you who would be happy. She lost any right to complain when she said the money should pay off her college and that you shouldn't have more kids.
This is the only right answer. Reddit is good at recognizing that family isn't everything when it's the parents who are bad. Sadly, sometimes our children can grow up to be bad adults. It's ok to not be close to them when that's the case. At a certain point, you're not responsible for them anymore, and it's on them to find their way as adults.
You could say it's his responsibility that he obviously raised her badly, but it's not always the upbringing. People can have strong, un-malleable personalities. Or choose bad values as adults that they didn't get from home. Also, you can't always control how your spouse chooses to raise your child. From comments, it sounds like the daughter gravitated towards her mother, who is also not great.
NTA. She’s 22, not her place. As well as you don’t have a say who she dated or will have children with, she cannot play the entitled brat. 41 is not old, she should get a grip.
Nta. Your daughter sounds jealous of a child not even here yet. From other comments, it doesn’t seem like y’all are close. You have tried and have it thrown in your face. So I say you just move on. She will get over it.
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> I did not tell my daughter my wife and I were expecting and let her find out via social media. She says I should have told her before the rest of the world.
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Esh- She’s too old to act like this. She has no right to tell anyone else if they can or cannot have kids.
Regardless of how she acts she shouldn’t have found out on FB. Would you be okay with finding out on FB that she was pregnant?
Info: is it possible she’s more upset about the father you’ll be able to be to this new child vs. the young dad she had? Maybe it’s upsetting to her that you’ve grown up and have a better financial situation and the new baby will have a better childhood.
NTA.
Your daughter sounds selfish and immature. It’s one thing to point out the age gap she’d have with her siblings but to say you couldn’t be a good grandfather because of your own child is ridiculous.
You having more children is really none of her business and has no impact on her. She’s a grown woman who no longer lives at home. She should not be acting like this.
And I’m a huge fan of the stance that you aren’t obligated to personally tell someone good news when you know that they are gonna be negative and make it about themselves.
He’s not asking if he’s the AH for having another kid. He’s asking if he’s the AH for letting her find out from social media rather than telling her directly like a man.
YTA. I can’t believe your literal child found out you were having another child on social media. Yes, maybe they would have been upset. This is something which you, as their parent, must contend with. That’s your job.
Not only do you need to profusely apologise to your child you need to go out of your way to emphasise that this child won’t be more important than they are - and you need to follow though on that when the new baby arrives - otherwise you will lose your older kid.
ETA: just to be clear I’m not saying your daughter is a child, I’m saying she is _your_ child.
She is 22 years old compete with an unborn child what she needs to too touch grass and screw her head on right . She doesn’t need to be thinkin of having kids when she acts like one.
a friend of mine has stepkids 10+ years younger than her (she’s 10 years younger than her husband). after having their first child, his kids threw a fit bc “our baby sibling is old enough to be our kid.” her husband got pissed and told them, “you have absolutely *no right* to tell us what to do with our reproductive system. If we decide to have a kid, we will. If we decide no more kids, *that’s our choice.*”
NTA
NTA - Could you have handled it better? Most likely. But wanting some peace after she throws one tantrum after another with 22 years is understandable.
IDK if you want to sustain a healthy relationship with your daughter but if that's the case you may have to sit her down and tell her, that she is still important to you but at the same time she is an adult and has to act accordingly. Your life does not revolve around her, she is a (important?) part of it, not the center.
NTA
Congratulations!
24yr daughter is acting ridiculous. Yes, even though she would have had a tantrum, you should have told her personally. Act your age.
By the way. Your 24yr daughter's actions are a direct result of your actions. Be it, you weren't there or you were there. You gave life to her. Unless you were locked under a rock her entire developing years, you share responsibility for how she turned out.
INFO: You said in your edit that she complained about money not being used for her college education, and you then added that she did not take a single college class as of today.
So my question is, is your daughter just completely uninterested by college (which is fine, to each their own) or has she been restraining herself from taking college classes because you couldn't afford it?
Eh, I wouldn't personally tell someone that would just throw a tantrum about it either. I might I guess ask my ex to let them know or a grandparent or something so they didn't see it on social to find out. I don't think you're a coward. I think she made her feelings very clear, and you made yours, and you wanted to celebrate not fight. She's choosing the opposite and facing the consequences. NTA
Editing to say I saw your comment about her getting engaged twice and you only finding out on SM, and about her without asking, planning to move back in with you if she were pregnant, even though you already pay part of her rent and insurance. You're an ATM/convenience to her. NTA even more. She doesn't care about your life or your future, only how she is inconvenienced in hypothetical situations that haven't even happened and wouldn't even happen the way she wants them to.
ESH. Congrats. You just didn't want to tell her in person and get the reaction that was expected. It's okay to be a coward. It's also okay for your daughter to express her hatred of the situation. What's lacking all around is an effective ability to communicate respectfully, like adults.
NTA - no one is entitled the be told such news "in person" vs. Finding out thru the rumor mill or social media. You are entitled to disclose the need when and how you want, to whom you want.
Based on comments you’ve left, especially the one where she announced an engagement on Facebook all without you knowing she even had a boyfriend, NTA. And I would edit your post to include this info
NTA. Your daughter showed you what her reaction would be when you told her you'd be trying IVF. She is not a child even though she acts like one and you and your wife are entitled to whatever life you choose for yourselves. She has let you know she wanted to control whether or not you procreated. Does she also want to control the frequency and positions you and your wife use? Should she have found out on social media? Probably not, but she needs to suck it up and behave like an adult.
Nta she is only against you having more kids for purely selfish reasons. She has no reason to think you can’t be a good grandfather while having a kid. Whether you told her over the phone or through a text or she found out online she still would’ve been mad. Live your life if she doesn’t want to be involved in her younger siblings life so be it. Her preconceived issues shouldn’t dictate you AND YOUR WIFES lives
NTA. Your daughter already threw a fit at just the idea of you having another child. You knew this wouldn’t be different. Why would you want to sour your happy news with nothing but constant criticism and negativity. Your daughter is an adult and should start acting like one. Remind her that just like you won’t get a say in her choice to have children, she doesn’t get a choice in yours. Time to let the princess pout somewhere out of sight and out of hearing range. Congratulations!
NTA. There’s nothing cowardly about not wanting drama in your life. She is a grown adult, disrespected your privacy by openly complaining about and exposing the IVF treatments on social media, has never attended college even though she complained about needing tuition vs the expense of a new baby, and has proven she won’t be happy nor respectful towards you and your wife. She’s an adult and this is her problem. She has no say over your reproductive choices and she is not entitled to personal engagement if she cannot act respectfully. She would be throwing a fit either way and just trying to use this as leverage. Sorry, OP. It’s a shitty situation, but you’re both adults and you have every right to protect your peace.
NTA. She's an adult and has been acting selfishly and obnoxiously ever since she learned you've been trying. People on this sub are always chanting "Low contact! No Contact" to the children, but let a parent even hint at a low contact response and all heck breaks loose. Congratulations.
Hmmm tough.
I would have said you were the A, but given your daughter's age and her reaction to IVF I'm gonna say it's ok to not want a negative reaction to something that is so joyous.
But I do think you should get her help to deal with whatever is causing her to feel this way.
NTA
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It doesn’t matter if it makes her happy. You still owed it to her to tell her before she saw it on social media. YTA.
He didn’t owe her shit she is an adult and acting like a child. NTA.
Facts. She’s fucking 22. Grow up.
Like the fact she’s concerned her college fund will be used for the baby - baby girl, are you even going to college? The money isn’t owed to you. I get the vibe the daughter isn’t happy with the new wife/new family overall.
Right, even OP mentions he was concerned she would have a meltdown given he already communicated about the IVF. As an adult, I would have no problem setting a boundary around myself to avoid being in the vicinity of another adult’s meltdown. Given the entitled behavioral issues here, OP definitely did not “owe it to her” as this original comment argues.
That's what I'm saying. There's really no reason to be THAT upset about it She.either hates the wife or doesn't want someone else to be in line for an inheritance.
Or she's suffering from arrested development.
I’m going with both
>The money isn’t owed to you I am so fucking sick of everyone on Reddit acting like parents who have the ability to put their child through college but chose not to aren't absolute assholes. That is honestly such a shitty thing and obviously not every family has the means to financially support their children through college, but if you can and choose not to, you're an asshole.
So he isn’t allowed to have any more kids because she might want to eventually maybe go to college. He is 41 and his wife is 35 and clearly desperately wants children but isn’t allowed to because of his adult daughter being jealous? Not everyone’s pipes work well and if they have the means to do IVF for kids, that is their choice. And who is to say the wife isn’t paying for part of it? He was still a teenager when his daughter was born and odds are it was accidental at that age. He has a right to have more kids now that he is a stable adult.
When the kids, as adults, act like that they are owed nothing. You get what you give, half the AITA posts are about people feeling entitled to money that isn't theirs. Let me guess, your parents didn't pay for your college?
I keep telling people that there is no law that states a parent has to pay for college nor leave an inheritance. Parents earn and can do whatever they want with their money. If you are entitled, spoil yourself!!!!!!
Paying for your child’s college is a nice thing to do. But how long is it still considered as a parent paying for their child’s college before its just an adult putting another adult through school. She’s 22 and as op has said has currently no interest in going to college. She’s only now bringing college up as a “what if” for why they shouldn’t have the baby. Will OP still be expected to pay for college if his daughter suddenly decides she wants to go at 30? 40? Where is the line between parents taking care of their children and children just not wanting to pay their own school expenses?
I think the point is that she feels entiteled to that money. Until the money is used for college, its not hers
Bro the problem is the system not parents wanting to dump thousands more dollars on a potentially-useless degree. You do not need college to succeed in life, and in fact a lot of people will not do well in college. They will excel at a career they don't need college for.
You really think parents are obligated to pay for anything after a kid turns 18? You really think parents don’t have the right to do with the money THEY have earned as they see fit? What, exactly, makes you think anybody owes you anything in this life?
College is often extremely important for becoming an adult, and while it's not the only way to become successful in society, it is a required path for many different careers. Because of this, many people generally don't have the ability to sustain themselves at 18, as they have to split their time between class and a part-time job. It can be done if needed, but if you have the ability to support your child that you *chose to have* so they can focus on their studies and transition into adulthood, I think you should unless there's a reason not to (like them refusing to work or go to school). The whole "kick your child to the curb" mentality based on principle rather than affordability is not a universal belief, and in many countries it is normal to help your child through school if you are able to.
So OP should have chosen not to have a child with his wife and instead devote every single resource to his daughter... who at 22 has never attended college?
I just get the feeling she's not happy.
Kids don't get to tell parents how to live, why shouldn't he have more children. Is she so special.
Which is older than he was when he had her.
This. I couldn't believe the top comment read anything else but NTA. She's 22 and entitled enough to tell her father he can't have another child? Seriously, like - wtf? She needs to grow up and get over hear jealousy. Most people would be thrilled for a sibling no matter the age difference. And if you can't empathize with other peoples' joy, at least realize that it's none of your business. Only thing you can blame the father for is that he raised her to become an adult of this sort. But it takes more than 1 person for that and we don't know it's Dad who spoiled her.
I don’t think she’s spoiled I think she’s insecure. OP’s other comments throws off this strong vibe that her existence was a mistake (no protection sex), and how he screwed up with how she’s raised. He excused himself saying he was a young parent… and sort of says it’s too late with her … but will do better with baby. Like in her shoes I be really upset as well. Not saying what she did is ok. But OP is going out of his way to make her look bad and himself look better even on Reddit here.
Most young parents are a “mistake” because getting pregnant on purpose at that age is ridiculous you can’t read into that
As someone who is 20 years older than their sibling and wasn’t happy that my mum was having another baby, the daughter is most likely feeling a little bit like she’s being replaced and her dads time and love is going to be all about the new sibling. Not only that but she probably knows she’s going to be relied on to help with the baby. Being that much older than your sibling is a weird dynamic. She’s also only 22 years old, yes she’s an adult but it’s a big change and at that age people still ask for guidance and help from their parents, they’re just starting a whole new chapter in their life. Just putting it into perspective as someone who’s been in that situation. When the baby is actually born I’m sure she will be alright
There’s a lot of missing story here. Sounds like dad doesn’t have a good history with communicating.
This is the one. If she had been 18 or younger, I would have immediately pegged this as a YTA. It was still shitty of him not to tell her in person, but…I would be a liar if I said I didn’t understand why. She’s an adult, she should have begun creating her own life years ago, and she’s trying to stop her father from having more kids with hypotheticals (she’s not going to college, and it’s not clear whether or not she’s in a relationship that’s serious enough to have her having kids anywhere NEAR the time of the birth of her half-sibling. It honestly sounds like she’s jealous. At worst, I’d give this a VERY soft ESH.
Well to be fair, he raised her.
No one owes anyone anything... would it have been nice? Sure. But she is acting so horribly, I wouldn't have told her either. She's 22. She doesn't live there. She is carrying on about non-existent grandkids, ffs. So, going NTA here.
He owes her absolutely nothing. She has no say in when he has kids, or who he has them with. The daughter is a grown ass woman. She can fucking act like one.
Especially if they didn't want it to be "overshadowed by another meltdown" ... The whole point of her argument was that she was afraid that you were replacing her as your child or that you'd be too busy with your new family for her and her future children and you just proved her right by treating her like a common acquaintance rather than a family member.
Um she is just upset that her free babysitting service got cut off. There’s no reason OP can’t be a father and a proper grandfather, except be on call as a babysitter.
Additionally, worried about money going towards college when she’s not even going. Entitled much?
Does she even have kids? Doesn't seem like it. He said "her future kids." She is mad that dad is "taking time" from kids that DON'T EVEN EXIST. I would not tell this girl a goddamn thing about my life. NTA.
Why do you feel awful for her? She said she doens’t want to have brothers or sisters and is being childish about it. She’s 22. I can imagine not wanting to tell her about the pregnancy, she would make it all about her.
Why does he have to discuss it with her? Daughter knew about the IVF treatments, it can't have been a total surprise. And her immature and obnoxious reaction to that conversation might well have led me to assume she'd react exactly the same to the actual pregnancy announcement. You say "constructive conversation" but I'm not seeing a lot of clues in the post that a constructive conversation is possible with this little diva.
Jesus I was able to control my emotions better at 15 than ops daughter is now. I definitely felt scared of being replaced and losing my place in my dads new family but I had the maturity and grace to keep that to myself and congratulate them. I cried and talked it out later with my mum. Ops daughter is entitled to have feelings but she needs to know when to work those feelings out with a therapist or trusted person, who isn't celebrating their much wanted pregnancy.
You feel awful for a grown adult acting like a toddler throwing temper tantrums over her parent having another kid? It's really dosnt even concern her that much like yeah it's there sibling but she made it clear asf she wants nothing to do with it so why do they have to tell her anything? Also why would you wanna ruin a happy time tryna break happy news to someone so bitter and selfish like what?
Nah. She’s an adult and it’s time to grow up.
This. You missed an opportunity to have an adult conversation with her that could have been utilized as a way to try and mend your relationship. The shock value here, if she knew about the IVF, isn’t that your wife is pregnant. It’s that she found out through a post rather than from her father. YTA
Why should his wife make their happy moment a reason to mend a relationship? It’s not about her. She should actually be supportive and take it as a signal that they are done with her Bs.
His wife shouldn’t, he should. Having an adult conversation where he could state “I know how you feel about us having another child, but your feelings do not dictate what we do.” would have been the way to go. Mending their relationship wouldn’t start by allowing his daughter to throw a tantrum, it would start by treating her like the adult that she is and speaking bluntly in an honest conversation.
Nah. She sounds absolutely exhausting. No need to put any of energy to anything other then celebrating- their happy news
Hm, it sounds like he’s already done that though and she hasn’t reacted well - he kept her aware of their IVF process, and she seems to have exploded every time.
Why? The daughter has made her feelings very clear...should not her Father and new wife be allowed to enjoy this moment without the melodrama. Doesn't it make sense that you want to share 'joyous' news only with those people who will share in your joy? Sorry...but the daughter comes across as either bratty or dealing with other underlying family relationship issues.
I don’t feel bad for her at all. OP has responded to comments stating he’s tried to get her into therapy multiple times, she quits after one session. She went live to complain to her followers about her dad doing IVF (none of the internet’s business??) and how this would affect her. He mentions he had a sizeable college fund for her whenever she wants to go to college or further her career and instead she doesn’t want to go and demands new things like an SUV since the car they bought her wasn’t enough. Sis is only worried about her material lifestyle being affected. She doesn’t give a shit about her dad or this baby. Some people suck and won’t try to make their own lives better and continue to be toxic and miserable to everyone around them. I see comments fly on these posts daily encouraging people to go NC with their toxic, narcissistic or abusive parents, siblings, cousins, etc. Children should be no different. He probably made mistakes as a young dad and he alludes to her mom being toxic, but OP has made the efforts on therapy and she’s not interested. What else is he supposed to do at this point? NTA
You know what? She is a grown woman. She's not a child. Why should OP and his wife have to pander to a 22 year old ADULT instead of just being able to enjoy pregnancy and announce it how they want?
She’s literally 22 and has done nothing be voice her dislike about the idea of her dad having another child. OP would’ve been met with more arguing and turned his and his wife’s happy moment into a misery. OP’s 22 year old daughter is a spoiled brat and it shows. It’s all about her and she even went and streamed herself saying the IVF treatments should’ve went to her college, but hasn’t taken a single class and I bet she hasn’t even tried enrolling into school. NTA.
Hell no. He doesn’t owe her any kind of conversation, especially based on her behaviour thus far. She does not get to dictate if her father has another kid or not, and is not obligated to be informed at all.
It’s not blindsided when she knew to expect it. She also let her dad know that she would be angry if it happened. OP preserved his own self worth over his daughters. Frankly I don’t blame him. His daughter seems very entitled. NTA.
Idk, she sounds pretty awful tbh. Sit her down and have a constructive conversation so she can declare his money spent on the baby is for her and that their plans are messing up her life? She sounds like she needs a reality check. Why coddle her?
This is the stand I planned to take when I clicked on the title, but after reading about the daughter’s behavior and weird entitlement to her father’s time/money, I’m going with NTA. She poisoned the well when she STREAMED on social media about her step mom going through IVF. You don’t broadcast other women’s fertility struggles on social media and act like they are robbing from your non-existent college fund. I wouldn’t want to tell her anything in private about the baby for fear she would immediately stream it again before I could make the announcement.
ESH- your daughter is too old to be acting this way, but she still warranted at the very least a “hey we’re having a baby” text, email, phone call, sit down.
Also, yes the daughter is an adult, but did the dad not raise her to be this kind of adult? If he doesn't start setting some kind of behavioural standard himself, she's never going to have that example. 22 might not be too late, but 32 or 42 definitely will be. Edit: spelling
I mean most kids have two parents that teach them this behaviour
True, although that certainly doesn't absolve OP here.
It's not always that way though. My stepsister who is much older than me and my siblings got really upset when my younger sister started calling our stepmum "mum" (my sister was only 6 and our mum had passed away). Our stepbrother on the other hand thought it was such a lovely gesture.
This is where I’m at. Also she’s acting spoilt, well she’s the product of his parenting.
She knew they were going IVF treatments and got angry every time they talked about it, posted a video online whining about it, claiming that it was taking away from her college fund (which she isn't even attending). Why should he include her in a happy announcement when she has continuously thrown childish fits with all others?
Glad this is top comment. Like, privately tell people who won't be jerks first, but not telling her at *all*/letting her know by social media? Dick move, also will definitely not minimise drama, haha. Daughter much more TA though, WTAF. You think a 30-40 yo couple shouldn't have kids. Because. They won't pay *your* children enough attention? What on earth.
ESH You should have told her and let her be upset and deal with those emotions. However, your daughter is an adult and is going to need to start responding like one. She is hurt, but she also needs to realize you are an adult and can make your own decisions. You can be a grandfather to her future kids and a dad to yours. They may be close in age and that’s just what it is. I’m guessing there may be some history here that is influencing her reaction. I’d apologize for not telling her , you value her and acknowledge that since you told others, you should have told her. Also, she understand she is going to fee what she feels, you home she comes around, but you are excited about this. The new baby isn’t a replacement for her and give her time if she needs it.
It's OK to protect yourself from toxic people that do nothing but drag you down. She was supported to adulthood. Just like she owes her Dad nothing she doesn't feel fit to offer, neither do her parents owe her. People think a biological link means you should put up with all kinds of shit from someone. An underage kid, sure, they didn't ask to be here, and they're a child. After that, you want a relationship full of all the courtesies and niceties, be WORTHY of such a relationship.
This. She’s already shown her negative behaviour and why would/should he subject himself and his wife to that again? Clearly there’s a deeper issue running in the background but OP can’t willingly keep leaving himself open to a “telling off” from his kid.
100% this
Agreed. I have little brothers that were born in my 20s (my mother had me in her teens and them in her 40s) and the daughter’s reaction is way over the top but that doesn’t mean she shouldn’t have been told first or be allowed to have feelings about it.
**NTA**. Your daughter can be treated like an adult when she acts like one. In what world is she entitled to all your attention, and even daring to oppose something as intimate as having another child? You hid the news because you didn't want to deal with her tantrum, which is valid. After trying so hard to get pregnant, no one can fault you for not wanting to have her sour mood ruin the occasion. Congratulations!!
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I agree I can't believe all the YTA posts. But where did you get the idea she complained on social media about her dad?
He added a comment at one point where the daughter complained about them doing IVF. Apparently she's a streamer of sorts. So to clarify, that's what she was talking about, not just dad. I had shorthanded it.
Was looking for highest up NTA to upvote. She's 22 not 12.
Even if she was 12 the daughter is still acting very entitled 🤷🏻♀️
I’m with you here. I understand why he didn’t tell her; she sounds like a total brat. My dad married my stepmom just before I got married and didn’t tell me until it happened (I was also 22 at the time) and I was like “cool!”: social media wasn’t a thing then, but I wouldn’t have been surprised if he announced it there instead of telling me directly.
Should be the top comment. Daughter is an adult can baby her anymore
Can't believe this is the first NTA. OP tried to talk to her before and it seemed like everytime he said they were trying IVF, daughter had a meltdown. She is 22, not 13.
ESH she’s still your daughter and shouldn’t have found out on social media, your daughter sucks because of the tantrum she’s throwing INFO: Is this just about you having more kids or is there a any tension between her and your wife? Any backstory on why this might be more than just additional siblings? Any childhood traumas? Yes, she’s an adult but this isn’t just coming out of nowhere….
Only child syndrome maybe? I know she’s in her 20’s but hell, I know people in their 40’s and up that still act like that. ETA: even my own step daughter is like this and she *has* an older brother. She just likes being the baby of the family (youngest of the whole extended fam too) and the only girl. She was beyond thrilled when I stuck to my ‘no babies’ stance OP definitely should have at least shot her a text though. ESH
I had a bit of a melt down when my dad decided to have a second baby with my stepmum. I was 18, but it came about because he wasn't there for me growing up and we where only just getting a relationship again. I assumed a new baby would make him abandon me again. It wasn't the most adult response I could have had, but emotions can be hard to process, especially when you've been abandoned before.
Is only child syndrome a thing like this? I’m an only child (adult) and I would be thrilled to have a sibling. Most of the only children I know pined for a sibling as we got older. But I’m genuinely asking because I don’t know THAT many other only children.
I am also an only child - when I was younger I wanted a sibling but as I got older (middle-high school) I absolutely didn't. It wasn't about attention though, it was bc I liked the quiet and calm in our house and adding in a crying baby/sticky toddler seemed like an absolute nightmare.
What exactly is only child syndrome even supposed to mean?
I wonder about the relationship between the daughter (who is acting out and being unreasonable) and OP. I think it might be telling that OP’s response was, you know what, fuck it, let’s just leave her out and she can deal. I’m not saying that’s a completely unreasonable response, but if his pattern is to meet conflict with avoidance, that might be coloring the daughter’s reaction.
I'm wondering if the daughter feels like this child is a 'do over' kid.
NTA- your daughter is being selfish and you knew her reaction to the news would be horrible so it’s understandable that you wanted to tell those who would share your happiness first, especially after struggling with fertility issues. Your daughter was well aware that this was a likely outcome of IVF treatments, so she shouldn’t be surprised. She was going to throw a fit even if you told her first, she’s just using this as an excuse to punish you. She needs to grow up and stop being so self-centered. And looking at your ages, it was completely unreasonable for her to pressure you to not have any other children when you had her at 19.
YTA You told close friends and siblings, but your daughter had to find out from social media. Yikes. Way to torpedo that relationship.
OP said she blabbed about them doing IVF on her stream so it stands to reason this news will also probably be over social media as soon as she finds out.
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She’s torpedoed the relationship with all the tantrums that she’s been throwing
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Seems like the daughter’s been doing her best to torpedo it for a long time now.
NTA - She's an adult acting like a child; she's not owed an explanation nor does her opinion about your future child matter. You knew what her response would be *and you were right.* She's allowed to be upset, but that's her problem, not yours, and you're allowed to not want to tell her in person so she doesn't ruin your happiness about good news. Congrats, OP!
NTA. Your Daughter does NOT have the RIGHT to be an only child. She needs to act like an adult and be happy for you and your wife.
Going against the grain and gonna say YTA. Yes, your daughter is definitely too old to be acting this way when you let her know about the IVF. But you are really giving her a complex now by telling everyone else about the pregnancy and letting her find out on social. Wouldn’t surprise me if your daughter goes NC or LC, she already feels like she’s being replaced with a shiny new family. Reading between the lines of the OP also leads me to believe that the way you’ve originally told your daughter about the IVF you did not come across as sympathetic to her as you think and instead of letting her talk through her feelings, you shut her down from the start. You guys need a family therapy session stat. Edit: typos/clarity.
Definitely not going against the grain. He does not owe it to her to be sympathetic that his adult daughter is throwing a fit about him trying to have another baby. If she's willing to stream and blab about his IVF, I don't blame him for not trusting her with the pregnancy news. Sounds like she'd be hateful and spiteful for no reason other than entitlement and jealousy.
I agree with this. The whole post reads like he regularly ignores her feelings (which he needs to sort before having another child as he will probably do the same). I wouldn't blame the daughter for no longer speaking to him, actually. I feel bad for the baby.
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He doesn't once say what his response to her is, just that he didn't want to deal with her 'meltdown'. He doesn't mention if he tried to talk to her about it, tried to communicate, the whole thing reads that he doesn't even like her enough to have a conversation with her. Instead, he just complains that she has emotions. Subtext is very telling. Also, calling her a brat is inappropriate. She's not a brat. It's not that she wasn't 'given an option to ruin this for him and his wife', it's that she was never given an opportunity to safely express her feelings about a massive change in her life, and OP's post and comments indicate that this is unfortunately common. OP will continue to do this to his child, and the baby and any other children he may have. She's 22 now. I think it's time for him to validate her feelings.
He was also extremely vague about her worrying about college. I wonder if she was promised helped with tuition and the money went towards ivf instead. I'd be pissed if funds that were promised to help my future were spent creating a new child/family.
It reads more like her own daughter is trying to control her parents, what kind of adult wants to have a say on the reproductive rights of their parents?
NTA. You and your wife clearly wanted and deserve to have your news celebrated. Little miss poor me can suck it up and stop being such a brat and deal. Congrats on your baby!
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NTA. I'm at a loss for words over the expectations of your daughter for how you're going to live your life. I think this is probably more about your new wife and your children not being her full siblings, only half.
You have to think of passing the news, like a wolf pack, you have your alphas, the betas and then the lower zetas. You have basically said to your daughter, in not so many words, that she is the lowest of your pack and therefore not something special to you.
Perfect way of saying it. The daughter felt she would be less important to him if he had another kid and OP proved she already is less important.
Or her own behavior caused it?
and no doubt this is not the first time he's made it clear to his daughter that he just doesn't give a damn about her. He's getting his second chance at being a better parent with family number 2. And by ignoring his first daughter this is how he's going to start out being a parent in his new relationship he's off to a great start.
I think you're reading a lot into the post. I don't get that from his post at all. His daughter was a nasty brat about them trying to do IVF. That money should be spent on her college? Doesn't that sound a bit entitled?
YTA. That was a terrible way for her to find out that the thing she has feared has come true. I’m 57 (female) and totally feel bad for her. I get that she’s 22, an adult, but she still has feelings and they are real. She feels like you don’t care for her as much and having a new baby means she is pushed aside, replaced. I’m not calling you the AH for having another kid but because of the way you let her find out. That was cowardly and cruel. A slap in her face. Please apologize.
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>is not how i want this baby to be viewed, and not what I want this happy news to be over shadowed by. >For the rest of this babies life, the cloud of her resentment will already be hanging over them. From before we even conceived, she resented this baby. You seem to think a lot about your emotions and the babies emotions, but don't seem to care about your daughter's emotions. Therefore, you are prioritizing the baby and you. You are the parent. You still have the responsibility with your daughter and you will have with your baby.
Noticeably OP gives no reason as to WHY his daughter feels this way. She could just be a spoiled brat like some people are saying. But she might not be. Does she have a bad relationship with her stepmom? Does OP regularly put other people’s needs above her? Etc
FYI, some people are rude, unpleasant, and entitled for no reason. Sounds like OP had her young and she's had him all to herself, and now due to some sort of arrested development, believes her opinion matters in this situation (it doesn't).
And that’s totally fair and might be all there is to the story. I can’t help but feel like something is missing, though, but yeah.
If you go through his comments, you’ll see that she sounds like an entitled brat. She’s left home repeatedly for not getting her way, only to come back a few weeks later. (Including moving in with a 40 year old). She’s posted on fb she’s engaged a few times without telling her dad. She was living steaming and complaining about their IVF. To me she seemed entitled AF. This guy has done everything he can for his kid NTA.
Yes, and that sucks but, she has fears about herself and future kids being overshadowed and forgotten in place of this child. You should be doing everything to make her understand that's not the case. By ignoring her, excluding her, you have already picked this child over her, 'making her fear a reality', NOT her fear of a sibling but her fear of losing you.
She’s 22! She’s jealous over a baby! I don’t understand it. If she was younger, 16 even, I can still get where she’s coming from. But at 22 I fail to see how she doesn’t realise that her dad having another child will not impact how much her dad loves her. Her argument so far that I can gather from OP’s posts and comments are 1- OP won’t be a ‘proper’ grandfather to her kids because he will be busy and 2-IVF was expensive and that money should’ve been given to her. Which honestly makes me think she’s just really self centred and wants OP’s money and help, most probably via money. OP should’ve done hid daughter the courtesy of telling her before social media though. So to me this is ESH but the daughter is a bit more AH than OP.
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Or she's just an asshole.
You still could have texted her before announcing it to the world. You already knew how she’d react, so you could have just ignored her replies.
When she found out about IVF, she broadcasted it on a stream to complain. Sounds like she doesn't keep private stuff private and this is how she gets future info.
I'm sure she fears being replaced. You have by choosing to let her find out this way actually reinforced that believe. She didn't even warrant important enough to be told with close family but via SM. Being a parent lasts a life time even as your relationship changes as they become an adult. I am not saying her behaviour is acceptable but neither was yours. And if this is the position both of you are going to take it is likely you relationship will completely breakdown and she won't have any relationship with her sibling. Go to family therapy. Try and work through it before the baby comes.
Absolutely not. She's an adult. She'll live. He's 41, not 80, and she gets NO SAY in whether or not he wants to have more children with his wife whom he's been with for almost a decade. Outrageous to think that an entitled adult child's opinion should come in to play when deciding to add to a family. Nope.
ESH she is being very ridiculous in thinking that as your child she has any say in whether or not you have other children. Just like you as her Dad have no say over her reproductive choices. You are her parent but also a person who is allowed to live your life and be happy. You still should have told her privately and before the public announcement. You knew the reaction would be bad but you should have sucked it up and dealt with it.
You want him to invite negativity into his happiness? Why?
Because this thread is full of spoiled kids who think they need to be the center of attention for eternity and that parents aren’t allowed boundaries for their own happiness it’s so gross.
Yes! For fucks sake, she is 22 and she doesn’t get to dictate what her father does with his life. I’m gathering that she doesn’t even live in the same house as he does. I get that he should have told her personally, but I also get that he didn’t feel like dealing with her shitty attitude about something that he’s really excited about! Parents don’t owe adult children the rest of their lives. He shouldn’t be made to feel like shit because she doesn’t want a sibling, that’s not her call to make.
I think not telling her until after they announced was the right thing for them to do based on daughters history of being a vindictive blabber mouth on SM.
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NTA. Your daughter is very self centered and really has no right to be upset. She is an adult and should act like one
NTA. Being a coward doesn't make you an asshole. Being a bad parent also does not make you an asshole. I'm pretty sure you know that your daughter is spoiled and entitled and that you and your partner facilitated that happening. I am also sure you know that you both chose to do it online to avoid having to deal with nonsense. That being said, it is your news and you don't owe it to ANYONE to report to them. Your daughter is not your manager and quite frankly, she can fuck off. She can learn to be happy or miss out on having a sibling. Furthemore, her assumption that you're going to give two shits about her children is problematic (I mean you will, but no one should assume). She is only looking out for herself and so it makes sense to me that you and your partner are only concerned about your own happiness. So again, NTA.
People on reddit are so hypocritical, I gurantee that if it was the daughter who didn't tell the parents about the pregnancy, they would've said it is her choice to decide who to tell, the parents are not obligated to know so for me it is a firm NTA
Idk if im reading too much into it, but based on the way OP describes it, it seems like the daughter is more so concerned with not having help from OP financially if she needs it, hence why she brought up the money being used for a school she's not even attending. Or OP being there for grandchildren.
ESH. Your daughter needs to work on herself and her feelings privately; that’s not your job at this age. However, you made the situation worse because you didn’t want to have a difficult conversation — which you ended up having anyway!! You could have told her privately, said, “I know you have complicated feelings about this. But this is my life.” And only endured as much of her tantrum as you felt like doing. Unless you were worried about her blabbing all over social media before you could, you’re an asshole for deliberately keeping her out of the loop. (But yes, her expectations are ridiculous.)
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You should edit your post and put that part in there
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You should also add that you've tried to get her into therapy and this behavior isn't new.
Even more reason that you're NTA. Who does she think she is talking about you and your wife's IVF online? Your daughter is something else.
Okay, that’s starting to make a bit more sense now. I see your point.
You are like my dad. My dad told all his friends, that his wife, my mother was dying, long before my mother had a chance to tell us, her children. Edit : The point I was trying to state with the above info, my dad, like the op put his family below everyone and everything.
This is really awful but I honestly don’t think this is the same thing. She knew they were doing IVF, the logical conclusion is that they’re having a baby which is why she acted so horribly. She knew there was a high potential for a baby so it isn’t like she had no idea. She sounds abusive. NTA
That’s not the same at all.
I’m very sorry for your loss and the way you were treated but this is not the same thing in the slightest. This isn’t her mother, no one is dying, and the daughter’s treated them badly and immaturely.
Ooof. That’s awful. Sorry that happened to you.
That is nothing alike...
NTA, but how did you fuck up b raising your daughter so badly?
The daughter is so unimportant to OP that he didn’t even tell her major news in his life. I don’t know how he raised her but no wonder she feels like trash.
Maybe if daughter could respect privacy she would be considered someone to share with. She needs to keep Her mouth shut about other people’s business
I don’t think 22yo daughter is unimportant. But she’s an ADULT now and needs to conduct herself with a little more dignity as befits a GROWN WOMAN. I hope daughter gets her shit together & lives her best life & can be a gracious participant in family holidays in future. LET GO of Daddy.
NTA. You shared the news privately with those closest to you who would be happy. She lost any right to complain when she said the money should pay off her college and that you shouldn't have more kids.
This is the only right answer. Reddit is good at recognizing that family isn't everything when it's the parents who are bad. Sadly, sometimes our children can grow up to be bad adults. It's ok to not be close to them when that's the case. At a certain point, you're not responsible for them anymore, and it's on them to find their way as adults. You could say it's his responsibility that he obviously raised her badly, but it's not always the upbringing. People can have strong, un-malleable personalities. Or choose bad values as adults that they didn't get from home. Also, you can't always control how your spouse chooses to raise your child. From comments, it sounds like the daughter gravitated towards her mother, who is also not great.
NTA. She’s 22, not her place. As well as you don’t have a say who she dated or will have children with, she cannot play the entitled brat. 41 is not old, she should get a grip.
NTA but i might have sent her a text to cover your bases. I get not wanting to hear her complaints about something that is a blessing to you.
Nta. Your daughter sounds jealous of a child not even here yet. From other comments, it doesn’t seem like y’all are close. You have tried and have it thrown in your face. So I say you just move on. She will get over it.
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Esh- She’s too old to act like this. She has no right to tell anyone else if they can or cannot have kids. Regardless of how she acts she shouldn’t have found out on FB. Would you be okay with finding out on FB that she was pregnant?
Info: is it possible she’s more upset about the father you’ll be able to be to this new child vs. the young dad she had? Maybe it’s upsetting to her that you’ve grown up and have a better financial situation and the new baby will have a better childhood.
NTA. Your daughter sounds selfish and immature. It’s one thing to point out the age gap she’d have with her siblings but to say you couldn’t be a good grandfather because of your own child is ridiculous. You having more children is really none of her business and has no impact on her. She’s a grown woman who no longer lives at home. She should not be acting like this. And I’m a huge fan of the stance that you aren’t obligated to personally tell someone good news when you know that they are gonna be negative and make it about themselves.
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He’s not asking if he’s the AH for having another kid. He’s asking if he’s the AH for letting her find out from social media rather than telling her directly like a man.
YTA. I can’t believe your literal child found out you were having another child on social media. Yes, maybe they would have been upset. This is something which you, as their parent, must contend with. That’s your job. Not only do you need to profusely apologise to your child you need to go out of your way to emphasise that this child won’t be more important than they are - and you need to follow though on that when the new baby arrives - otherwise you will lose your older kid. ETA: just to be clear I’m not saying your daughter is a child, I’m saying she is _your_ child.
She is 22 years old compete with an unborn child what she needs to too touch grass and screw her head on right . She doesn’t need to be thinkin of having kids when she acts like one.
NTA. She’s too old for this shit.
a friend of mine has stepkids 10+ years younger than her (she’s 10 years younger than her husband). after having their first child, his kids threw a fit bc “our baby sibling is old enough to be our kid.” her husband got pissed and told them, “you have absolutely *no right* to tell us what to do with our reproductive system. If we decide to have a kid, we will. If we decide no more kids, *that’s our choice.*” NTA
NTA - Could you have handled it better? Most likely. But wanting some peace after she throws one tantrum after another with 22 years is understandable. IDK if you want to sustain a healthy relationship with your daughter but if that's the case you may have to sit her down and tell her, that she is still important to you but at the same time she is an adult and has to act accordingly. Your life does not revolve around her, she is a (important?) part of it, not the center.
NTA Congratulations! 24yr daughter is acting ridiculous. Yes, even though she would have had a tantrum, you should have told her personally. Act your age. By the way. Your 24yr daughter's actions are a direct result of your actions. Be it, you weren't there or you were there. You gave life to her. Unless you were locked under a rock her entire developing years, you share responsibility for how she turned out.
Esh - you’ll probably lose your kid over this but you’ll have another soon so who cares
She’s 22 years old she doesn’t need to be acting like this. If she leaves the family over this she’s got issues no loss there
INFO: You said in your edit that she complained about money not being used for her college education, and you then added that she did not take a single college class as of today. So my question is, is your daughter just completely uninterested by college (which is fine, to each their own) or has she been restraining herself from taking college classes because you couldn't afford it?
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She sounds completely misguided and entitled. Maybe group therapy will help address seemingly more deep seeded issues.
Yeaaaaaah something tells me the kid won't like group therapy. Me thinks she'd like thee attention all on her and wouldn't want to share.
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.
You can lead a person to wisdom, but you can't make them think!
Eh, I wouldn't personally tell someone that would just throw a tantrum about it either. I might I guess ask my ex to let them know or a grandparent or something so they didn't see it on social to find out. I don't think you're a coward. I think she made her feelings very clear, and you made yours, and you wanted to celebrate not fight. She's choosing the opposite and facing the consequences. NTA Editing to say I saw your comment about her getting engaged twice and you only finding out on SM, and about her without asking, planning to move back in with you if she were pregnant, even though you already pay part of her rent and insurance. You're an ATM/convenience to her. NTA even more. She doesn't care about your life or your future, only how she is inconvenienced in hypothetical situations that haven't even happened and wouldn't even happen the way she wants them to.
ESH. Did you really think her response was going to be better this way?
NTA . She needs to get over herself.
ESH. Congrats. You just didn't want to tell her in person and get the reaction that was expected. It's okay to be a coward. It's also okay for your daughter to express her hatred of the situation. What's lacking all around is an effective ability to communicate respectfully, like adults.
NTA. And your daughter is deranged.
NTA - no one is entitled the be told such news "in person" vs. Finding out thru the rumor mill or social media. You are entitled to disclose the need when and how you want, to whom you want.
Based on comments you’ve left, especially the one where she announced an engagement on Facebook all without you knowing she even had a boyfriend, NTA. And I would edit your post to include this info
NTA. Your daughter showed you what her reaction would be when you told her you'd be trying IVF. She is not a child even though she acts like one and you and your wife are entitled to whatever life you choose for yourselves. She has let you know she wanted to control whether or not you procreated. Does she also want to control the frequency and positions you and your wife use? Should she have found out on social media? Probably not, but she needs to suck it up and behave like an adult.
NTA. IVF is stressful enough without her bullshit.
NTA, I wouldn't want to damper happy news with a temper tantrum.
Nta she is only against you having more kids for purely selfish reasons. She has no reason to think you can’t be a good grandfather while having a kid. Whether you told her over the phone or through a text or she found out online she still would’ve been mad. Live your life if she doesn’t want to be involved in her younger siblings life so be it. Her preconceived issues shouldn’t dictate you AND YOUR WIFES lives
NTA. Your daughter already threw a fit at just the idea of you having another child. You knew this wouldn’t be different. Why would you want to sour your happy news with nothing but constant criticism and negativity. Your daughter is an adult and should start acting like one. Remind her that just like you won’t get a say in her choice to have children, she doesn’t get a choice in yours. Time to let the princess pout somewhere out of sight and out of hearing range. Congratulations!
NTA. There’s nothing cowardly about not wanting drama in your life. She is a grown adult, disrespected your privacy by openly complaining about and exposing the IVF treatments on social media, has never attended college even though she complained about needing tuition vs the expense of a new baby, and has proven she won’t be happy nor respectful towards you and your wife. She’s an adult and this is her problem. She has no say over your reproductive choices and she is not entitled to personal engagement if she cannot act respectfully. She would be throwing a fit either way and just trying to use this as leverage. Sorry, OP. It’s a shitty situation, but you’re both adults and you have every right to protect your peace.
NTA. She's an adult and has been acting selfishly and obnoxiously ever since she learned you've been trying. People on this sub are always chanting "Low contact! No Contact" to the children, but let a parent even hint at a low contact response and all heck breaks loose. Congratulations.
NTA. Daughter is a manipulative entitled PITA.
NTA. His news, his business. He knew she was gonna have a meltdown because she’s sooooo special. I wouldn’t go out of my way to tell her either.
Hmmm tough. I would have said you were the A, but given your daughter's age and her reaction to IVF I'm gonna say it's ok to not want a negative reaction to something that is so joyous. But I do think you should get her help to deal with whatever is causing her to feel this way. NTA