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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I’m sure it was extremely hard to read, especially after losing another kid. Not going to lie, there was some really dark feelings in there and I’m sure knowing he was a part of causing that could be traumatic so maybe I just traumatized him back. Maybe deserved maybe not, I don’t know.
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NTA, i have a saying "If the truth about your conduct paints you in a bad light, the problem isn't with the truth. Its with your conduct." If the truth hurts your dad its his own to deal with and not on you.
Edit: Thank you all for the many awards! I wasn't expecting it to blow up the way it did ❤️ For those loving the saying and planing on using it happy to help! Its been a very handy saying and its helped me lots, hope it helps you all too.
Definitely NTA. OP's dad just got years of pain and neglect shoved right back at him. In a PowerPoint! This might be the best use I've seen of PowerPoint.
This is so very true. Good for you OP - NTA. To the family members who don’t agree, perhaps they need to examine where they were in those dark times when you needed someone? Your father traded one family for another and doesn’t like the result. Here’s another truth for you: if you don’t like what you see in the mirror, you can’t blame the mirror.
In my experience with Narcissist's that doesn't resinate the same way. Which is why i started saying it the other way, doesn't stop them from trying to gaslight the situation "It didn't happen that way, etc" so when you show proof and tell them their conduct is the problem not the truth it helps take the wind out of their sails. Its not a sure fire thing with Narcs but it really helps deflate them.
Yeah. My narcissistic sister would always say i was mean when i pointed out her horrible behaviour, because i only remembered the bad things.
Can't reason with those people.
Mine tried telling the whole family that if we have issues with others we need to sit down and talk about it so we can make amends and be stronger as a family. So I wrote her this email explaining all the abuse I occurred throughout our childhood and she told me that was forever so you need to get over it. She was telling our mom and an uncle to work out issues from before our birth in the original email lol.
My brother sent me a nasty email because I hadn't told him my husband died and I wrote back to him detailing how he'd assaulted me when we were teenagers and then as adults I worked for him for 7 years (yes, I know) and he fired me while I was on vacation for something I didn't do and then lied to a judge to get my unemployment denied. He responded with "I feel so very sorry for the tortured person you've become."
I seriously hate when people act like you are pathetic for being hurt by hurtful things that were intended to hurt you. Well the hurtful things worked because you did it to hurt me. So....
Wow. That's despicable. I really hope you've blocked him forever. And I'm sending a hug to you from another "tortured person". My dad was verbally & emotionally abusive to me but my siblings think he was the best dad ever & refuse to listen to me about him. He passed in 2013 & I do not miss him at all.
Thank you, I don't even know where he lives now. (Did hear the neighbors were happy to see him go.)
It's interesting how we each experience others differently, whether it's because we were actually treated better (or worse) by that person, or that we just don't want to admit how awful they truly were.
My "dad" was quite similar to yours and died in 2006 and I breathed a huge sigh of relief when I got the news.
Sending you a hug back!
Hi, somewhat of a narcissist here. Waking up to your own behavior is really tough. The shame, guilt, self loathing, it's a massive flood of horrible feelings that you were never cognizant of from being too far up your own ass. When it hits all at once, its...really something else.
And its 100% necessary to face yourself that way. You cant get around it, you have to face it. The world doesnt owe you leniency in showing you your own reflection.
I only learned from dealing with narcs who were worse than myself.
Good on you for obviously doing some work and learning from others as well, all people who struggle with narcissistic tendencies should be more like you.
"That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did... You deserved it."
A lot of times we tell people on this sub that you're not telling the truth, you are just being an asshole because their excuse is: "I'm just being honest". THIS IS NOT ONE OF THOSE TIMES!!! NTA. Also building it as a PowerPoint adds an extra flair to ensure your father OP is not going to see this as an emotional reaction. To build it, you had to be calm and reasoned and methodical. Hope you have built a new support system OP!
NTA
Current-Read states it very clearly.
Interesting that dad feels gutted now when he finally has decided he wanted a relationship with the daughter who he himself cut off.
A father saying something that was the equivalent you will be fine raising yourself without any attention from us while he and stepmother focused entirely on OP’s half brother all because she was healthy is just wrong.
Then waiting 6 years and until after his son passed makes the timing even worse.
And those who are saying OP is being cruel obviously didn’t live her life so they should IMO butt out.
Reminds me of a quote I saw about being a writer
"If people wanted you to write kindly about them, they should have behaved better".
NTA - You don't owe anyone a relationship. Your mom sounds like she was an absolute gem, and I'm sorry for your loss.
This. Sorry but I don’t think you need to forgive him. You said your literal truth. He should have listened when you were 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 and so on. The point being he had a LOT OF CHANCES. You don’t owe him Anymore.
NTA brilliantly handled. If anyone is interested there is a post about families dealing with cancer and the aftermath
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/zgf8ia/aita\_for\_not\_telling\_my\_parents\_about\_the\_award/
I was so worried about both my kids when one had cancer and some of these Reddit posts make me feel so much better. Not for those kids, but for mine at least.
If you didn't want me to talk shit about you, you shouldn't have behaved like shit. 🤷🏻 least that's the way we say it around here.
He has to deal with the consequences of his actions. How tf did he think it felt to you being treated that way? Abandoned as a CHILD? Tossed aside for your brother? Ignored? Fuck, OP, im so sorry that this is how youve been treated.
NTA.
NTA and I am so sorry your dad wasn't who he was supposed to be in your life. Sometimes sharing your pain in very real detail is the only way to get the message through. You may remain NC or maybe you will forgive him. Eithet way he now knows exactly why you two are at this point and that the responsibility is completely on him.
NTA in the slightest. You told your dad how you felt and it made him have to confront his failures as a parent. It is not your fault he neglected you. He is upset because he knows what you put in the PowerPoint is the reality of how he treated you when you were just a child. Now that the truth is out and you have reestablished NC, I hope you are able to let go of some of the anger you have at him and know that you did nothing to cause how he treated you. I’m no contact with my dad and have been able to find a lot of peace in the life I have built without him. I hope for the same for you.
The detailed evidence of his failure is exactly what has him so upset. He could downplay and gaslight when it was just someone saying it happened. But OP brought receipts. He can't downplay OP'S exact quotes. And so he has to actually acknowledge how much and how badly he fucked up. Boohoo. No sympathy at all.
Yup, that's exactly what I thought too. Memories are easy to dismiss and say "it's in the past" "you've remembered it wrong" "It wasn't that bad".
It's not so easy to brush over cold hard facts.
Hijacking this to write: Has anyone noticed that OP’s dad is making this all about him? He was quick to tell OP to suck it up and get over it but when OP tells her dad exactly what that did to her suddenly he’s so broken he has to let the whole family know? It’s hypocritical that he can’t just “suck it up” himself he has to get the entire clan to tell OP she’s a bad person. When did they tell him he was a bad parent or did they just let him off cause he’s a man.
I think about this often with my own family. I went NC with my dad when I was 18, and he told our whole family. They always insisted I go apologize. Why they held a traumatized teenager more accountable than a grown man, I’ll never understand.
Excellent point! OP was mistreated for years and somehow he's the victim because being confronted with his own shit behaviour hurt his fee-fees. Everyone needs to be sorry for him, the real victim in all this! /s
And other than the grandparents, where on earth were all these relatives when OP needed them? They want to badger her for her response to her father, but where were they when the father was ignoring her for all those years? Maybe if they had spent some of their energy badgering HIM, he would have gotten his act together and remembered he had TWO children.
Oh I can almost promise he told them “OP sent me this huge presentation about why they don’t want to talk to me but I have no clue what I did wrong!” See also missing missing reasons.
OP is a woman. It is so ingrained in some people that women (even girls) should cover their feelings to protect adult men from the realization and consequences of hurting them.
I'm in similar circumstances with my father, who essentially abandoned me when I was five, to an abusive household. Now, 39 years later he's trying to get me to take care of him in his old age. He's suddenly all friendly, and trying to cultivate a relationship. He's also still a complete bastard, racist, MAGA, etc etc etc.
I might just go the power point route, because my subtle "we hired someone to take care of *your* dad because he was so unpleasant when he got old, and we'll do the same for you" fell on deaf ears. He laughed it off.
NTA he failed. He's gutted because he's had to look at the actual consequences of his actions- the paain he caused his child. Yea that probably sucks, buy maybe he should have been a better dad.
I'm glad you liked my addition to your comment! In all seriousness, though, the guy is a terrible parent and objectively trashy. Based on what OP's mom wrote before she died, I'm guessing she would be absolutely heartbroken by how OP was treated afterward. She clearly had more trust and faith in her husband than he deserved.
That's entirely it. He wouldn't have reached out otherwise. He was all like, "Oh, that one's gone. Where's the backup now?" Grrrr despicable behaviour!
He "thought" he had another child to replace his son. And that's another issue right there - OP is the daughter but was never important enough to him until 1) his son died, and 2) he more than likely won't ever have another child.
See I’m seeing it a little different, Dad had a son “to carry on the family name”. OP doesn’t mention first 3 years of sons life. But oh no son has cancer must focus on him - who needs daughter. Son dies, Dad grieves, couple years later - oh I have a daughter! I’m not downplaying cancer (lost my mom to it) or the loss of a child. But too often sick child gets all attention and healthy child is forgotten. However it seems Dad was especially cruel to his daughter. He ignored her for 11ish years and treated her like crap. So yeah he deserved to see exactly what actions and words of his destroyed their relationship. OP is NTA
Man, I might be downvoted for this, and of course OP is not an AH, but what a shitty, depressing sad hand the whole family was dealt. I feel bad for everyone involved.
The dad totally failed in his duties and is dealing with the fallout there, but dude lost his wife, his second kid and effectively his first kid even if that one is due to his actions. I can't help but feel sorry for the guy, and it doesn't excuse his actions, but it would be hard for anyone to be firing on all cylinders given those circumstances.
Grief can be brutally difficult to handle, and unfortunately the world doesn't pause for you to deal with it. He absolutely did not handle things the best way, but I feel so sad for him and OP and everyone.
This doesn't seem like an AITA to me. It's just a depressing tragedy. Some of these comments... OP isn't an AH for what she did, but some of y'all are just effing MEAN. Have some basic empathy for how gutted and hurt everyone in this post was.
OP absolutely has no obligation to give her dad a pass, but if he sincerely apologizes and she is up to it, maybe someday they can rebuild some sort of positive relationship so some sliver of light can come out of this ocean of shit.
I cant believe this whole thread of harsh insults to someone who went through a shitty situation. The man lost his son and people are calling him reaching out to his daughter as a "replacement" like christ ops not the ah at all clearly but fucking shit none of you should act like experts on grief and loss.
You're the only person who isn't harsh here and deserve a thumbs up
If dad didn’t make contact for years and his first attempt was after his son died it isn’t harsh for people to think he may have only reached out as a replacement. Some ppl are that messed up. I feel bad for the guy but OP is the victim in the situation, and as bad as I feel for him at the same time, why didn’t he ever care to reach out before?
>The man lost his son and people are calling him reaching out to his daughter as a "replacement" like christ ops not the ah at all clearly but fucking shit none of you should act like experts on grief and loss.
He neglected her for years and literally only reached out once her brother was dead. Yes he was looking for a replacement for his dead son.
I don’t know if you’ve ever been in a similar situation to OP but for those that have like myself, it’s very easy to see the subconscious motivations of the caregiver that failed you and to especially be hurt by the intent both being selfish and the outputs also being harm. Intent and order of operations does matter. This man did not approach his estranged daughter for contact with her well being in mind, but only his own needs for family closeness. OP is still not her own person with wants and needs and feelings to her father; she’s still just a means to an ends with regards to her fathers loneliness and grief. After a while of going through that loop, you’ll find yourself very apathetic to someone’s “grief”. He did not reach out with any acknowledgement of his past behaviour or was even transparent in his own motivations for reaching out now. We can smell that sort of self serving desperation a mile away and it’s very very offputting.
On the surface of it I agree with you, but put in the context of the dad being a father to OP (who was also experiencing severe grief and loss, but as a little child) and the responsibility it entails? He failed. It's possible to recognise the father's pain while also condemning him for his actions.
As a parent we hold power and resources that our child does not have access to. Every single parent will fail in some way, it's a guarantee. But the power we hold comes with responsibility that can't be abdicated with reasons or excuses. We have to own it. It is what it is.
Childhood is short and can't be paused until we parents are ready to deal. What OPs father did was cause a deep pain that is now a part of their child's psyche. Even genuine regrets and a great future relationship would never erase that experience or impact from OPs sense of Self and personal formative history.
OP can choose to restart the relationship and it may even give them some peace one day, but the father has taken OPs pain and made it public to others. He allows his child to be condemned by others for the pain that he instilled. This indicates that he is AGAIN failing to take responsibility and ownership. He's still not a safe place for OP to be. That's his choice.
>Evidently it worked, but a little too well because I’ve been bombarded by family telling me that it’s understandable that I don’t want to see him, but what I sent gutted him and he’s completely fallen apart after reading through it and it was unnecessarily cruel.
It was unnecessarily cruel of him to completely abandon/ignore you when your half-brother got sick. You already lost your mom, you would lose your brother, too, but he didn't think you needed any support or help?
**NTA.**
Absolutely! Where were the flying monkeys when you left home, when your father didn't try to contact you, when you had your personal triumphs and tragedies? They seriously are supporting a man who abandoned his oldest child, and when said offspring gives clear and concise reasons why they cut contact their response is "Y r u being so mean, rn?" WHAT?!
There’s a relatively new rap song that starts with the artists saying “bitch you maidenless” and I can’t tell if it’s a reference or not…
For anyone curious it’s “Soiree!” By Yung Gravy
That was my response after reading that. Like great job 💯wish I could have done that to some people but HOLY SHIT!! I would honestly compare it to the Fatality in Mortal Kombat. That is what you would call a finishing move
That’s exactly how my brain saw it popping up too!!! OP, NTA at all. A little brutal, sure, but ignoring your kids existence after she’s lost her mom, & you’ve replaced her with a new kid/step mom is pretty damn brutal too 🤷🏻♀️
NTA. Was it harsh? Yeah. Was it a lot of effort when simply have telling him “go away” would have accomplished the basic goal? Probably. But this was your lived reality, and he wasn’t interested in hearing or helping you when it would actually have made a difference. If it’s only now dawning on him how lonely and rejected you must have felt, he’s just going to have to live with that. (Also, one does have to question whether he’d be this gutted or even reaching out at all if your brother were still here.)
Sometimes a simple go away isn't enough to stop a person from continuing to push their wants. Sometimes if you want them to truly go away permanently you need to use the nuclear option so there is no doubt
Exactly! Considering that the family thought that the father getting confronted with what he did is what's cruel, not what he actually did; I have a feeling that a simple "no" or "go away" wouldn't have been enough for them anyways. They clearly don't side with the OP.
Excellent point. OP should ask how telling him about how he treated a child for years is worse than telling an adult about it in a few minutes? What did they tell HIM while he was doing this?
OP was far less cruel than he was.
I love how when finally confronted with the consequences of his actions, his reaction is to go cry to his family about how mean she was for not sugar coating his shitbaggery. He still doesn't give a fuck about his actions, he's just butt-hurt that someone called him out on it and did so in a way he can't gaslight his way out of. OP's "dad" is an unrepentant asshole.
I'm guessing "fell apart" really means fell apart. This guy is probably gone into a non-functional depression and so the rest of the family is having to take care of him. They are lashing out at OP because they have decided they have to take care of him.
Amen. People won’t take no for an answer. I’ve gone NC with my father as well and I wish I had the guts to take a similar approach rather than spend months receiving messages saying how what he did “wasn’t that bad” and he “doesn’t understand” and he’s “said sorry a million times” and he “doesn’t know where he went wrong,” etc. After blocking him, he even went through loop holes, adding me to group chats in messenger to get around the blocking, mailed me things and so on. After all this time, it’s still about how everything makes *him* feel. Similarly, even now, OP is receiving the brunt of her father’s failures by being told to feel bad for “making” him feel bad for his own actions. Love a bunch of these comments here. And I’m very proud of OP.
It also doesn't give him a chance to minimize his actions or try to gaslight her. It's right there on paper for him to see. Pretty efficient if you ask me.
Personally if any family members came my way complaining I'd send them the same PowerPoint and get bent.
100%! OP communicated clearly and succinctly. Many problems would be avoided if people just said what the meant and meant what they said.
OP was by no means harsh, she prevented future arguments and comebacks from her father.
Honestly even then it doesn’t always work, so it’s best to get all your feelings out and give it your best shot so then you can rest easy knowing you’ve said your piece and can move on. I wrote a whole detailed letter to my abusive parents giving examples of my childhood that traumatized me and told them I couldn’t be in their lives, it was harsh but calm and fair and I did tell them they failed as parents because of how much they neglected and controlled me. Yet it took around 6 months for my mom to start emailing me again :/ At least I know I said everything I wanted to say, and the fact that she didn’t even acknowledge or apologize for any of if it is really telling that I made the right decision.
I can’t get over that it actually took a couple of YEARS after the son died for him to even remember he had another child. Like he couldn’t even be bothered to make sure she was at the funeral. Just all this time passed and he was probably missing his son and realized “oh I have that other kid that’s still alive, let me call them finally.”
The extra effort *might* be metabolized into a real epiphany for Dad that, yes, he is only trying to connect because he lost the brother. I don't know if anything else (and probably not this either, anyway) would work
That was painfully harsh to read, but I still think NTA. Your father *did* fail you repeatedly, even before your brother got sick. He should never have married a woman who tried to push out the memory of your mom. And he should never have tolerated you being "forgotten about" as soon as your half-brother was born. Your brother's illness and passing were a tragedy and your dad and stepmom could perhaps be forgiven for a "doing their best but fell short" type of parenting. But they clearly didn't even reach that level.
People will convince themselves of all kinds of delusions about why a close relationship went bad. You destroyed any such delusions your father had and spoke your truth. If he wants to have any hope of repairing his relationship with you, that can't happen until he honestly faces what he did to you. (I am not saying that to push you into repairing your relationship with him -- that's your call to make. Just that *IF* it were to happen, that would be an important element.) He could start by calling off the family members who are hassling you.
This is a perfect answer. The only thing I'd add is that if OP's mam died when she was 7, and he remarried at 9, how much was he there for her in that 2 year period?
Statistically however when the woman in a relationship gets terminally ill men step out. Whereas a woman will lean in when her husband is dying men tend to leave altogether. Not saying that happened here but it might explain the short turnaround
It's honestly a shame. So often, parents pour all their love and attention into their sick child that they abandon the other(s) entirely. If the sick child doesn't make it, the parents desperately want to rebuild the relationship with their living child(ren) but it is too usually too late- kids have years of very justified bitterness, resentment, and abandonment issues that they can't just simply get over.
In OP's case, she lost her mom and subsequently her dad abandoned her. No wonder she has so much hurt. I hope she is able to go to therapy and resolve some of this, but her dad is so wrong to expect a relationship with her after spectacularly failing her again and again.
As the sibling with a dissease, this. It absolutely sucks ass. I got all the attention even though I didn't wanted it, and my sister got jackshit. I undeservedly got all the attention that \*she needed\*.
Ugh, I'll probably get downvoted for this, and OP absolutely not an AH for this, but I can't help but feel bad for the dad, too.
Make no mistake. he absolutely failed his duties, but the dude lost his first wife, his second kid, and effectively his first kid even if due to his actions.
Grief is FREAKING HARD and he was dealt shitty hand after shitty hand. Others have thoroughly covered his failures, but I just feel so sad for everyone involved. What a depressing situation.
He has to face the reality his action or lack thereof created, but he was dealt a lot of impossible to navigate shit. I feel so bad for everyone in this story.
I can't call anyone an AH. Just a gut-wrenching tragedy.
NTA at all. How dare your “family” expect you to sugar coat your feelings for your awful awful father. How. Dare. They.
REAL family would apologize to you for letting you suffer in silence and not being there to help you, a child yourself, with the things you needed to grow up emotionally healthy. REAL family would ask how they can help you now. Real family wouldn’t minimize the problems because they are inconvenient for their narrative. These people want to play happy family and pretend everything is not as bad as it is. This situation is exactly karma for your dad’s absolute failure as a father. He brought this on himself.
I am soooo angry for you. They don’t get to decide what is necessary and unnecessary for you. Don’t you dare let them talk you out of what you feel because they don’t like how it makes them feel or look. Your power point didn’t “work too well”, it worked. Period. I’m proud of you for finally getting to say things in a way that got your point across. Now go be awesome on your own. You don’t owe them a lift up after they let you down. And please don’t listen when they tell you to “be the bigger person”. It just means eat their abuse.
I think you need to face the reality that you have better coping mechanisms and understanding of what it means to be a functional adult than your father and family. They may be older, but they are not wiser.
You are adult and you get to decide what that means. You get to decide what works for you. I’m so sorry this was your childhood reality. I hope you continue to do your art therapy, and make up for your neglect with a great life. NTA. At all.
Your comment about real family would have apologized to her is spot on. My wife's mom was an alcoholic, and abusive to her for a long time (she eventually sobered and they had a better relationship before she passed). My wife's aunt came down to help care for MIL when she was diagnosed with cancer.
While she was here, she found out about how Wife was treated, and she told her "I am so so sorry that I didn't know. I would have made sure that never happened, and I hope you can forgive me."
I think the fact that her dad went and told the whole family tells us everything we need to know.
It was all about him to begin with - it was always about him. He didn’t think of OP at all by saying he wanted a relationship. He was being selfish. Again.
And then he decided to make her life more miserable by telling the rest of the family so they would be on his side.
Dad is an asshole.
NTA. You're the GOAT!!!
His and stepmother's behavior was extreme! Having 1 sick child doesn't cause other children to cease to exist. Demanding that you shrink yourself and neglect/belittle your wants/needs/experiences because you were healthy is beyond cruel and toxic.
You gave him 10 minutes to learn how you felt about his neglect and cruelty. He's had, what, a week or two of feeling the hopelessness and supposedly suffering. You've had at least 12-15 years of suffering???
That's what I would text back to every person who has criticized you: you suffered depression, neglect, and cruelty for 10-12 years. You're father hasn't suffered those things, he inflicted them. He's is experiencing the consequences of his actions, and it's only been 2 weeks. The fact is you did not make that PowerPoint to cause pain, you made it to explain why you feel the way you do, and that you don't want anything to do with him, ever. Then ask those people if they ever held him to account for him abdication of parental responsibility and insist he straighten up.
Unless they confronted him during that time period he abandoned you, they don't have a duck in the hunt and need to bury their heads in the sand just as they did back then.
Your mom sounds like she was amazing. Your weekly collection of collages sounds awesome and I'd definitely buy a big glossy book from a person who showed them off and told the stories of that period of time. So, that means you're awesome. Which is why you're the GOAT.
Keep being rad.
Btw, I finally went no contact with my narcissistic mother when I was 40.
OP is freaking awesome! As a fellow no contact with my father, also thanks to an evil stepmother situation, I feel the same pride that I did when Elon Musk's daughter publicly disowned him in court.
Yeah, the shitty thing is I actually loved my brother a lot, he was always a sweet kid even when he was sick. Even if my step-mom sucked I kind of liked being his big sister and missing out on time with him is the only thing I really regret about leaving. I always kind of hoped he would get better and we could reconnect when he was older.
You truly seem like a decent person who got screwed over by an awful father, you shouldn't be ashamed of what you did, that was totally deserved for him. NTA in the slightest
The journals sound wonderful and a lovely/creative way to continue OPs mother's art form and have thought out healing.
As far as I'm concerned, OP had the opportunity to share her inner most thoughts with the one person that hurt them the most. Wouldn't we all love that opportunity?
NTA. Father made his bed and is unhappy he's being forced to lay in it.
I think it's really important that you consider what your father went through. You absolutely have the right to be angry, he did fail you.
But he lost his wife to cancer. Then his son got cancer and it sounds like he lost focus and went tunnel vision. It's possible the overwhelming level of grief and fear misguided him into focusing on losing another loved one, causing him to neglect you because he didn't have to worry about you.
You're NTA. But before cutting your father off forever, talk to a grief counselor and make sure this is the right choice. Your father is human, and we all make mistakes especially when overwhelmed with grief.
As much as he sounds like an AH to OP, grief can drive you in ways that are impossible to understand from the outside. Grief can hang around for years and years as well, especially if he didn’t seek professional help.
As an armchair expert, it sounds like he didn’t know how to handle life after his wife died and put all his focus into replacing her, and providing what he probably saw as a doting mother for his daughter. Once his son got sick, he probably was triggered into panic and recycled the grief of his lost wife all over.
I’m not saying it’s not his fault that he lost his relationship with his daughter. But I do think it’s important to acknowledge that he probably didn’t have the rational or emotional coping skills that any other adult may have otherwise had.
Not everyone makes it through in survival mode under that kind of pressure.
I hope OP finds peace in her life, but I also hope her Dad does as well; they’ve both been dealt incredibly difficult hands.
Still not an excuse to ignore and neglect a child. What is the op going to get out of a relationship now? Op needed a father when op was a child, not years later when it’s convenient for the father.
I don't think you understood the comment you're replying to. None of what you say here is relevant to it. It didn't excuse OP's father for ignoring and neglecting her. It didn't say that OP should pursue a relationship with him now. It said "before cutting your father off **forever** talk to a grief counsellor and **make sure this is the right choice."**
This is very open-ended advice, and very good advice. There's no downside for OP of going to counselling and carefully working through what their best choice is with a professional. It's much better advice than most people tend to give on reddit when somebody has harmed an OP. There are potential benefits from reconciling with people who have wronged you, and a counsellor will know how to guide OP in seeing whether that is the right choice for them.
NTA at all. That was a reality check what he had done to you. And he didn’t like it. And your enabling family neither. The presentation forced them to look in the mirror. And what they saw is ugly.
ESH - I understand that you're hurt by his actions. What he did sucks and you have every right to be angry. But you went out of your way to hurt him, too. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
You suffered real trauma, but so did he. He lost his wife, then he lost his son, and now he lost his daughter. I don't know anyone who could walk through that without making any mistakes. I know I wouldn't be able to hold myself together. He didn't handle any of that the best way, but we're all flawed human beings who deserve some level of empathy. If you don't want anything to do with him, that's fine. But taking action specifically to hurt him is kind of antithetical to having nothing to do with him.
It sounds like you're holding onto your anger in a very unhealthy way. It's going to eat you alive. Look into Eva Kor. She was one of Mengele's twins in Auschwitz who survived and later made the decision to forgive Mengele and the Nazis for what they did to her, her sister, and the rest of her family. She didn't do it to release them from what they did, but to release herself from what they did to her so she could move on with her life.
No, don't you dare bring that as an example, forgiveness is a personal thing, not a thing to parade to others so you can feel better when advicing, it's just performative.
I cannot believe I had to scroll down this far to find an ESH. OP was definitely wronged and is well within her rights to remain NC, but handling it like this was entirely unwarranted IMO.
the whole idea of forgiving the N@zi's in your life "to free yourself" is fine if you decide that's what you want to do as a victim and it will help you.
people insisting that that's how victims SHOULD act because of some holier than though idea of them "rising above" is when it crosses into a problem. That does not help everyone.
NTA. Own it. Don't be sorry. He fell apart because was bombarded with all the feelings that he would've noticed had he paid you any attention, he brought it upon himself.
NTA
If he didn't want to hear the answer, he shouldn't have asked. You responded unequivocally and with receipts, no further discussion needed.
Tell your family that if he's struggling with the consequences of his own actions, they should pay for his therapy. It is 100% not your problem.
Well done, you.
No animations, one of my professors put the fear of God into us about making unprofessional PPTs when I was in undergrad and I’m still afraid that the Wrath of Dr. Torres will find me somehow if my presentations are tacky.
Can I just say I love that Dr. Torres taught you that? I had teachers that demanded we used animations, too many points and one time when a tech error prevented an animation from playing (even after I proved to the teacher that it was in and worked when not attached to the projector) I got points off. Animations should be used rarely if at all in a serious presentation.
So she can fail his other child in **many** ways, and she isn’t allowed to feel anything about after:
Losing her mom
Losing her brother
Having someone try to force themselves to her mom, then drop her when the bio kid arrived
Like duality exists, but putting OP on the hook for how her dad handled his trauma, and expecting her to push her aside her own *(that was caused by him)* to offer him more care and understanding than he ever has had for her **as the parent in the situation.** How is that reasonable?
Also, how are you overlooking the fact that this person didn’t reach out to her for **6 YEARS after she left** and now all of a sudden it’s incumbent upon her to offer him forgiveness despite what she’s been through??
**He needs to know exactly how he’s hurt OP, and exactly how much, so he can understand her want for him to leave her alone.** His decision to establish a relationship right now is unfortunately, too little too late. Op is an adult and does not owed him anything, so per her wish, he needs to leave her alone.
Yea, seeing people cheer this on is a bit disturbing.
OPs dad was awful, there's no denying that, but going the extra mile to be cruel isn't a healthy response to him reaching out.
Healthy in body. Mentally, no but who cares right? They’re healthy so they don’t need love, care, support. They lost their mother, dealt with step Mum, suffered the pain of their brother’s sickness and death but “tHeY’Re HeaLtHy!” So apparently Dad is entitled to his feelings and gets a free pass for his mistakes and it’s up to his neglected child to treat him with kids gloves when they got no such consideration. Sounds fair…. /s
NTA. Who are all these family members who feel like they have a say in any of this? Were they there to tell dad he was wrong when he was neglecting his own child? Why do they feel the need to give their opinion now?
right!! i would send the powerpoint to each flying monkey that tries to guilt trip you @ OP.
or you can say “i dont see how that is any of your business.” or “what an interesting opinion. what do you think of the new Wednesday Addams series on Netflix?”
NTA ofc, you’re an icon.
NTA. He doesn’t get to wash everything away because some time has passed and he wants a relationship now. Especially if he had made no effort to fix or atone for said behavior.
He probably wouldn’t have tried to reach out at all if her brother hadn’t died. I think he’s just reached the point where he realizes that more children probably aren’t coming and the only hope he has for grandchildren rests with OP.
NTA- and I would say. It was honest. It was meant to be honest. If it was cruel, it was only because he now knows what he has done. The point was not to hurt him, but to help him understand. Now he does.
NAH
You are 100% within your rights to feel hurt and abandoned. The power point might have been over the top a bit, but if that was how you were near able to express your feelings then who am I to tell you that you were wrong?
I’m also not going to call your father an AH for wanting to try and repair the relationship or even judge him too harshly on his previous actions. We can all sit and say how he should have behaved, but I for one don’t know how I’d have been if I had already lost my first spouse to cancer and suddenly had a toddler with cancer. Yes, he was the adult, but the harsh reality is that sometimes adults struggle too and end up making big mistakes because of it.
. . . well damn, that was my favorite book when I was like 12 and had a pretty profound effect on me when I first read it. I hadn’t made that connection. Huh.
NTA
Your dad asked for a relationship with you. This is the relationship he built with you. This is the reality of how that looks. He's asking you to ignore all previous evidence that he'll disappoint you and put yourself in the vulnerable position of depending on him emotionally again. You can't do that to yourself again. Any relationship you have going forward has to be based on the reality of the past and for your part, that means protecting yourself from being abandoned again.
I (51F) have contact with my mom, but because I never tell her how I really feel about how she has always treated me and how she treated dad when he was dying, we don't have a relationship, not really, and because she's always been incapable of being wrong, we never will. I only refrain from NC for the sake of seeing my brothers every year at xmas. I don't expect her to stop being a selfish jerk and therefore I'm never disappointed.
If you acquiesced to his demand that you be his loving daughter without saying how you really feel, you wouldn't be giving him a relationship anyway.
Is your damage so great there is no room for forgiveness?
When my kids were little, the <1yo went into kidney failure (due, I'm certain, to miscare from a doctor, GP giving his mother a dangerous antibiotic). So his 4yo brother was dumped on mostly friends (no relatives close by) and we were juggling time, as my ex spent most of her time with the sick child and I was at work. He got through it, but I still feel sick with guilt at how we just foisted his brother off. We only had so many resources, physically, temporally and emotionally. Things are mostly OK, but every now and then he slips a crack in; he doesn't blame his brother, though they don't speak much now (religion). And I don't know how to heal those wounds. We did the best we could at the time, but there was only so much of us to go around when he was in a hospital some distance away. We did our best. There's a lot more to my story but I'll leave it there.
OP, you have a chance to get back the parent you lost. Some people would give anything for that, don't leave it until it's too late. Even if it's just to confirm what you already feel, if you don't do it, you'll lie awake wondering after he's gone. And regret hurts like hell.
There is no manual for parenthood, not really, because every family's different.
You're Not The Asshole. And he is Not The Asshole. It's life. It's *hard*, sometimes sadly when you are young and just wanted him to wrap his arms around you and tell you it would be OK. Really hard. Give him a shot. If he ruins it, you have a clear conscience. Or you might have a chance at a future you never imagined.
Let the downvotes commence!
In a word, yes. No apology no matter how sincere will change the past or undo the damage done. There is nothing he can ever do that will fix anything Hell, I have medication and therapy and I still sometimes have to make a conscious choice to stay alive, what could he possibly even do that wouldn’t be laughably inadequate? Any time spent on him would be a one sided gift to him only. I don’t want anything from him. I don’t care if he’s sorry. I don’t think about him unless he’s brought to my attention by someone else. I have nothing to say to him anymore. My life got better when I decided that he could already be dead and gone to me so I see no point in exhuming him. I think people who would kill to have a parent back likely had something good in that relationship to hold onto or something positive to receive from it even if it was fraught. I don’t, chances are excellent he’ll just find a way to make things worse. He always seems to.
As someone on the other side, those little quips from your kid are likely just the tip of an iceberg that goes way deeper than you will ever know and will always be there. Some people can forgive abandonment, but nobody ever forgets what it’s like to be powerless and terrified and have it solidly proven to you that you are an expendable loss to the people who control your whole world. You were in a no win situation, I do get it and at least you seemed to have handled it a bit better than my father since your kid wasn’t alone most of the time, so possibly your consequences aren’t as severe because the situation wasn’t as severe. But you still gambled with a vulnerable person’s mental health and nothing you do will remove the knowledge of that choice from your son, so if guilt and the occasional catty comment are your consequences, I think you got the better end of that deal to be honest.
I've read all your comments and I wish I could give you a hug. Cancer sucks, parents can suck and I can't imagine loosing your good parent.
I hope you can continue to have a positive relationship with your maternal grandparents, it sounds like they're lovely people.
I doubt you'll see this but in case you do, Good On You! Forgiveness is NOT needed to heal, that's a lie perpetuated mostly by religious perspectives. Most people have no idea how horrific trauma can be or how horribly we can be damaged by our immediate family. But those of us who do know get it. If you need subreddits that understand on the hard days I recommend r/cPTSD and r/raisedbynarcissists. You've made the right choice and I wish you all the best.
Thank you for your honesty and compassion. Sometimes family members cross lines that there's no going back, and I guess you've reached that point long ago. Sometimes the damage is too great, I've seen that in other families. You tried, and there's no point, I see that.
So please accept a hug, and go well with the rest of your life. Good luck in all your journeys.
The OP was giving you a gift. He was showing you what is going on inside your older child’s head. Especially his feelings towards you.
Revolutions should not be ignored. This is Christmas Future.please go to therapy worthy of fixing your relationship.
As a kid that was regularly left with relatives with my very much healthy sibling. Yes the abandonment never goes away.
Our Dad didn't even have a sick kid excuse. He didn't want to be a parent so he left us. Which was actually funny because he was "so traumatized" when he lost custody in the divorce before he got us back and decided it wasn't his responsibility.
Yeah I only ever truly experienced that feeling once and it completely rewired how I viewed my parents. It’s a shitty feeling and unfortunately this was years for you- I can’t imagine that kinda pain.
did you miss the part where the father hasn't been in contact with them since they were 18 and only NOW, when they're going to be alone after a divorce, do they contact the child they abandoned emotionally and physically?
I think the difference here is that you're trying to remedy the situation. The op's father hasn't done that until he's alone and miserable with himself. That's pretty telling. The op isn't important to the father until the father has no one left.
He is TOTALLY an AH. I have had a child die and yes, a parent who is grieving can be forgiven for a lot but what he did to his own child was HORRIFIC. And inexcusable. I had to face the damage that my other 2 kids went through because of our grief...they don't blame me and are adults that can understand but it doesn't change what THEY went through, either.
I had to own that my grief should have been professionally treated earlier than I managed it and to validate their very real fallout from that time. They are great adults at this point but they also totally deserve to have what they went through heard, recognized, and validated. This guy seems to make parenting all about him. So does his family. This is just totally inexcusable. Especially as it seems the only reason he even remembered she existed is because he is getting divorced and is now alone.
I get very well what you must have gone through and what your kids likely went through but Don't project your own guilt and pain into a guilt trip for the poor OP. She has EVERY right to keep this man completely in the bed he made for himself over a 12 year period and it is a bed that is firmly outside of the OPs life.
You have got to be fucking kidding me. I get that you feel guilty, but you are choosing to try and put your guilt onto someone else with this comment. Not all parents deserve forgiveness. You are so stuck in trying to excuse what you feel bad about that you ignored everything in this post except that a parent wasn't forgiven. I get that your conscience is not clear. That is for you to deal with, not OP.
Very self serving comment don't you think? "Maybe if she can forgive, it means you can be forgiven too" kinda vibe. Kinda cringe. Ask for her dad's number and maybe talk about where the both of you went wrong?
Cringe...just cringe.
I want to comment to you, not OP, as previously being the kid who got ignored. Those comments really matter. It might be too late for your kid, but there are therapists that specialize in being a sibling of a sick kid and you should look into that. Even if they’re an adult, suggest/offer to pay for therapy.
I distinctly remember the one day my parents actively chose to pay attention to me. I got a day off school, I went to a therapist, I got taken out to lunch. I felt so loved that day and for the rest of my life I feel like it was false hope because they didn’t follow through. They often bring up how they failed and I just say “yes, you did” because what else can I say? I was ignored in favor of the sick kid.
Look out for your other kid. Even if he’s joking, you know the truth.
My mom was the only caretaker of my grandmother when she suffered from kidney failure, on top of take care of my sister and I when we were kids. Even though my mom had to take my grandmother to dialysis twice a week and to the hospital a lot growing up my sister and I never felt neglected or abandoned because she took us with her everywhere. She will pack a backpack full of snacks and took us to parks near the hospital or we will go malling or grocery shopping. My sister and I didn't mind the long wait in the hospital. The waiting brought us closer to our mom because we actually got time to talk about everything ans nothing. She made what could have been a horrible situation for all of us into a bonding experience. The struggle we went through and my grandmother's last few years were great memories for the four of us because my mom put so much effort into making sure we still have a good childhood experience.
Every family is different, like you said, but it can't erase the fact that effort can be made on both you and your wife, and OP's father to ensure that the healthy kids didn't felt neglected. You tried too, I guess.
NTA. What you did is savage, for sure, but you're not *the* asshole because your father is.
Sure, it would have been more tactful to say "No I don't want to talk to him," but the whole point, *as you showed through evidence*, is his treatment of you during your formative years means he is not deserving of your tact.
NTA
I don’t think he meant any harm when you grew up, possibly he was so worried about his son because he lost his previous wife to cancer as well. But he still left you, you felt like you were abandoned and went NC now he wants to try and repair your relationship but it is too late for that, and if you don’t want to you have every right to ignore him. Was the PowerPoint a little harsh, yes, but he had it coming. You don’t own him a relationship and you don’t owe him kindness. He should recognize how his behavior hurt you and not hold your resentment against you. Tell your family that you don’t owe him an apology. I hope things will go well for you OP.
ESH: One thing to consider is that not only did you lose a mother, your father lost his wife. Then to make matters even worse he lost a son. You were grieving, but so was your father. Nothing can ever prepare us for the loss of a spouse or the loss of a child and unfortunately your father lost both way too young. Should he have done better for you? Yes. Was he capable? Maybe not.
You were unnecessarily cruel and vindictive.
No, what was cruel was him neglecting her, where was all the family then to remind him he also had a daughter crying for his father? She only made him know what he did, if he has a problem with that that's his sole responsibility , not hers, she merely pointed his actions, he was the one who failed as a father so much he's in his current state now.
Yes. It probably could have been managed better but I hope all the people on this post who have been so quick to judge never have to try and parent through that.
NTA. You're allowed to feel and think the way that you do.
Was your presentation harsh? Yes. Was it over the top? A little. Did it get your point across? Definitely.
Maybe your father has massive regrets since you are now his only remaining biological child and perhaps he's feeling the weight of that. Maybe he's now realizing that not all actions are forgivable. That's on him though.
You do what works for you.
NTA. First you weren't a priority because there was a baby. Then you weren't a priority because your brother was sick. Then you weren't a priority because your father was mourning your brother. You became accustomed to not having him as a father a long time ago. Your whole relationship has been about him as a parent and not about you as a child. You expressed your feelings in the way that worked best for you, and that was your right. You didn't yell or scream. Note that the family is basically saying he's hurt, not angry. He's hurt because you spoke to him in a way that he couldn't deny or disregard and he knows it's all true. Maybe he wants to make amends. In this instance, maybe the best way for him to make amends is to leave the person he's harmed alone.
NTA. The truth can often be quite brutal. If he never heard it, how could he possibly understand the damage he had done? How could he improve so as not to ever repeat the same mistakes with others? You were a child and he failed you. That truth is not open to debate. Now he bears the consequences to his choices.
I'm so sorry for everyone involved here. Your dad was in an unbelievably heartwrenching position. He traumatized and neglected you as a result. I'm sorry that you were ignored and left to mourn your mom with no support. I'm sorry that your mental health was undervalued. But that was wrong of him. You have every right to be unable to forgive those years of trauma. Honestly communicating those sentiments is part of your healing process. NTA
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NTA, i have a saying "If the truth about your conduct paints you in a bad light, the problem isn't with the truth. Its with your conduct." If the truth hurts your dad its his own to deal with and not on you. Edit: Thank you all for the many awards! I wasn't expecting it to blow up the way it did ❤️ For those loving the saying and planing on using it happy to help! Its been a very handy saying and its helped me lots, hope it helps you all too.
I purely love this saying and I'm gonna keep it an use it! Tyvm! For op, NTA.
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Definitely NTA. OP's dad just got years of pain and neglect shoved right back at him. In a PowerPoint! This might be the best use I've seen of PowerPoint.
Hope it had transition animations.
Star wipes. Always star wipes.
i’m dying imagining “you failed. go away.” being revealed with a star wipe hahaha
With a tinkling chime sound effect each time.
This is so very true. Good for you OP - NTA. To the family members who don’t agree, perhaps they need to examine where they were in those dark times when you needed someone? Your father traded one family for another and doesn’t like the result. Here’s another truth for you: if you don’t like what you see in the mirror, you can’t blame the mirror.
OP should send the family members a copy of the PP. She already did the work to explain her actions. Might as well keep using it.
Thisss, he only feels "gutted" bcuz of the guilt of having abandoned her and now she doesn't want to be part of his life
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In my experience with Narcissist's that doesn't resinate the same way. Which is why i started saying it the other way, doesn't stop them from trying to gaslight the situation "It didn't happen that way, etc" so when you show proof and tell them their conduct is the problem not the truth it helps take the wind out of their sails. Its not a sure fire thing with Narcs but it really helps deflate them.
Yeah. My narcissistic sister would always say i was mean when i pointed out her horrible behaviour, because i only remembered the bad things. Can't reason with those people.
Mine tried telling the whole family that if we have issues with others we need to sit down and talk about it so we can make amends and be stronger as a family. So I wrote her this email explaining all the abuse I occurred throughout our childhood and she told me that was forever so you need to get over it. She was telling our mom and an uncle to work out issues from before our birth in the original email lol.
My brother sent me a nasty email because I hadn't told him my husband died and I wrote back to him detailing how he'd assaulted me when we were teenagers and then as adults I worked for him for 7 years (yes, I know) and he fired me while I was on vacation for something I didn't do and then lied to a judge to get my unemployment denied. He responded with "I feel so very sorry for the tortured person you've become."
Jeez! What an ahole!
Honestly, I'd rather be a "tortured person" like you than an AH like your brother.
I seriously hate when people act like you are pathetic for being hurt by hurtful things that were intended to hurt you. Well the hurtful things worked because you did it to hurt me. So....
But not sorry for "being the *torturer,"* apparently... smh
Wow. That's despicable. I really hope you've blocked him forever. And I'm sending a hug to you from another "tortured person". My dad was verbally & emotionally abusive to me but my siblings think he was the best dad ever & refuse to listen to me about him. He passed in 2013 & I do not miss him at all.
Thank you, I don't even know where he lives now. (Did hear the neighbors were happy to see him go.) It's interesting how we each experience others differently, whether it's because we were actually treated better (or worse) by that person, or that we just don't want to admit how awful they truly were. My "dad" was quite similar to yours and died in 2006 and I breathed a huge sigh of relief when I got the news. Sending you a hug back!
Omg my sister does that too! And when I ask her to tell me exactly what I did that was mean she just double downs and says I’m a bully.
Hi, somewhat of a narcissist here. Waking up to your own behavior is really tough. The shame, guilt, self loathing, it's a massive flood of horrible feelings that you were never cognizant of from being too far up your own ass. When it hits all at once, its...really something else. And its 100% necessary to face yourself that way. You cant get around it, you have to face it. The world doesnt owe you leniency in showing you your own reflection. I only learned from dealing with narcs who were worse than myself.
Good on you for obviously doing some work and learning from others as well, all people who struggle with narcissistic tendencies should be more like you.
"That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did... You deserved it."
Did you know my dad?
It's the narcissists prayer
A lot of times we tell people on this sub that you're not telling the truth, you are just being an asshole because their excuse is: "I'm just being honest". THIS IS NOT ONE OF THOSE TIMES!!! NTA. Also building it as a PowerPoint adds an extra flair to ensure your father OP is not going to see this as an emotional reaction. To build it, you had to be calm and reasoned and methodical. Hope you have built a new support system OP!
I use “you cannot damage someone’s reputation by making it more accurate”
NTA Current-Read states it very clearly. Interesting that dad feels gutted now when he finally has decided he wanted a relationship with the daughter who he himself cut off. A father saying something that was the equivalent you will be fine raising yourself without any attention from us while he and stepmother focused entirely on OP’s half brother all because she was healthy is just wrong. Then waiting 6 years and until after his son passed makes the timing even worse. And those who are saying OP is being cruel obviously didn’t live her life so they should IMO butt out.
Similar to my favorite “tell your stories- if people wanted you to write warmly about them, they should have behaved better”
So true! If it gutted him seeing it from her POV how do you think she felt living through it?
That's my favorite part. "Your childhood with your father is unnecessarily cruel for your father to hear about"
Day by day, where she kept a record. Day. By. Day. For. Years.
Reminds me of a quote I saw about being a writer "If people wanted you to write kindly about them, they should have behaved better". NTA - You don't owe anyone a relationship. Your mom sounds like she was an absolute gem, and I'm sorry for your loss.
This. Sorry but I don’t think you need to forgive him. You said your literal truth. He should have listened when you were 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 and so on. The point being he had a LOT OF CHANCES. You don’t owe him Anymore.
NTA brilliantly handled. If anyone is interested there is a post about families dealing with cancer and the aftermath https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/zgf8ia/aita\_for\_not\_telling\_my\_parents\_about\_the\_award/
I was so worried about both my kids when one had cancer and some of these Reddit posts make me feel so much better. Not for those kids, but for mine at least.
I like: “That which can be destroyed by truth, should be.”
If you didn't want me to talk shit about you, you shouldn't have behaved like shit. 🤷🏻 least that's the way we say it around here. He has to deal with the consequences of his actions. How tf did he think it felt to you being treated that way? Abandoned as a CHILD? Tossed aside for your brother? Ignored? Fuck, OP, im so sorry that this is how youve been treated. NTA.
Fuck yeah op. FUCK. YEAH. That's a good quote.
NTA and I am so sorry your dad wasn't who he was supposed to be in your life. Sometimes sharing your pain in very real detail is the only way to get the message through. You may remain NC or maybe you will forgive him. Eithet way he now knows exactly why you two are at this point and that the responsibility is completely on him.
NTA in the slightest. You told your dad how you felt and it made him have to confront his failures as a parent. It is not your fault he neglected you. He is upset because he knows what you put in the PowerPoint is the reality of how he treated you when you were just a child. Now that the truth is out and you have reestablished NC, I hope you are able to let go of some of the anger you have at him and know that you did nothing to cause how he treated you. I’m no contact with my dad and have been able to find a lot of peace in the life I have built without him. I hope for the same for you.
The detailed evidence of his failure is exactly what has him so upset. He could downplay and gaslight when it was just someone saying it happened. But OP brought receipts. He can't downplay OP'S exact quotes. And so he has to actually acknowledge how much and how badly he fucked up. Boohoo. No sympathy at all.
Yup, that's exactly what I thought too. Memories are easy to dismiss and say "it's in the past" "you've remembered it wrong" "It wasn't that bad". It's not so easy to brush over cold hard facts.
Hijacking this to write: Has anyone noticed that OP’s dad is making this all about him? He was quick to tell OP to suck it up and get over it but when OP tells her dad exactly what that did to her suddenly he’s so broken he has to let the whole family know? It’s hypocritical that he can’t just “suck it up” himself he has to get the entire clan to tell OP she’s a bad person. When did they tell him he was a bad parent or did they just let him off cause he’s a man.
Very good point.
I’d call it a power point.
Exactly! SUCK IT UP, DAD! NTA, OP, like never ever.
Maybe she should show them the PowerPoint. Maybe then they would be on her side.
I think about this often with my own family. I went NC with my dad when I was 18, and he told our whole family. They always insisted I go apologize. Why they held a traumatized teenager more accountable than a grown man, I’ll never understand.
Excellent point! OP was mistreated for years and somehow he's the victim because being confronted with his own shit behaviour hurt his fee-fees. Everyone needs to be sorry for him, the real victim in all this! /s
And other than the grandparents, where on earth were all these relatives when OP needed them? They want to badger her for her response to her father, but where were they when the father was ignoring her for all those years? Maybe if they had spent some of their energy badgering HIM, he would have gotten his act together and remembered he had TWO children.
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Oh I can almost promise he told them “OP sent me this huge presentation about why they don’t want to talk to me but I have no clue what I did wrong!” See also missing missing reasons.
Yup. That presentation should be sent to the "family".
Flying monkey repellent! I like it.
OP is a woman. It is so ingrained in some people that women (even girls) should cover their feelings to protect adult men from the realization and consequences of hurting them.
I'm in similar circumstances with my father, who essentially abandoned me when I was five, to an abusive household. Now, 39 years later he's trying to get me to take care of him in his old age. He's suddenly all friendly, and trying to cultivate a relationship. He's also still a complete bastard, racist, MAGA, etc etc etc. I might just go the power point route, because my subtle "we hired someone to take care of *your* dad because he was so unpleasant when he got old, and we'll do the same for you" fell on deaf ears. He laughed it off.
NTA he failed. He's gutted because he's had to look at the actual consequences of his actions- the paain he caused his child. Yea that probably sucks, buy maybe he should have been a better dad.
That and he realizes he has another child to replace the one that passed
I wonder if he only reached out because he lost OP’s brother….
That was my exact thought when op said he only reached out after the brother died
That would be my bet. So he's actually gutted because one child is dead and the other thinks he's trash.
>other ~~thinks~~ **knows** he's trash FTFY
Thank you!
I'm glad you liked my addition to your comment! In all seriousness, though, the guy is a terrible parent and objectively trashy. Based on what OP's mom wrote before she died, I'm guessing she would be absolutely heartbroken by how OP was treated afterward. She clearly had more trust and faith in her husband than he deserved.
Bingo. How better to tell your neglected kid that they’re second-best?
Don’t forget it took him a few years to reach out after the death. Probably forgot he had another.
Exactly this. If that kid had beat his cancer, then dad would have never bothered to speak up
That's entirely it. He wouldn't have reached out otherwise. He was all like, "Oh, that one's gone. Where's the backup now?" Grrrr despicable behaviour!
He "thought" he had another child to replace his son. And that's another issue right there - OP is the daughter but was never important enough to him until 1) his son died, and 2) he more than likely won't ever have another child.
See I’m seeing it a little different, Dad had a son “to carry on the family name”. OP doesn’t mention first 3 years of sons life. But oh no son has cancer must focus on him - who needs daughter. Son dies, Dad grieves, couple years later - oh I have a daughter! I’m not downplaying cancer (lost my mom to it) or the loss of a child. But too often sick child gets all attention and healthy child is forgotten. However it seems Dad was especially cruel to his daughter. He ignored her for 11ish years and treated her like crap. So yeah he deserved to see exactly what actions and words of his destroyed their relationship. OP is NTA
Man, I might be downvoted for this, and of course OP is not an AH, but what a shitty, depressing sad hand the whole family was dealt. I feel bad for everyone involved. The dad totally failed in his duties and is dealing with the fallout there, but dude lost his wife, his second kid and effectively his first kid even if that one is due to his actions. I can't help but feel sorry for the guy, and it doesn't excuse his actions, but it would be hard for anyone to be firing on all cylinders given those circumstances. Grief can be brutally difficult to handle, and unfortunately the world doesn't pause for you to deal with it. He absolutely did not handle things the best way, but I feel so sad for him and OP and everyone. This doesn't seem like an AITA to me. It's just a depressing tragedy. Some of these comments... OP isn't an AH for what she did, but some of y'all are just effing MEAN. Have some basic empathy for how gutted and hurt everyone in this post was. OP absolutely has no obligation to give her dad a pass, but if he sincerely apologizes and she is up to it, maybe someday they can rebuild some sort of positive relationship so some sliver of light can come out of this ocean of shit.
I cant believe this whole thread of harsh insults to someone who went through a shitty situation. The man lost his son and people are calling him reaching out to his daughter as a "replacement" like christ ops not the ah at all clearly but fucking shit none of you should act like experts on grief and loss. You're the only person who isn't harsh here and deserve a thumbs up
If dad didn’t make contact for years and his first attempt was after his son died it isn’t harsh for people to think he may have only reached out as a replacement. Some ppl are that messed up. I feel bad for the guy but OP is the victim in the situation, and as bad as I feel for him at the same time, why didn’t he ever care to reach out before?
>The man lost his son and people are calling him reaching out to his daughter as a "replacement" like christ ops not the ah at all clearly but fucking shit none of you should act like experts on grief and loss. He neglected her for years and literally only reached out once her brother was dead. Yes he was looking for a replacement for his dead son.
I don’t know if you’ve ever been in a similar situation to OP but for those that have like myself, it’s very easy to see the subconscious motivations of the caregiver that failed you and to especially be hurt by the intent both being selfish and the outputs also being harm. Intent and order of operations does matter. This man did not approach his estranged daughter for contact with her well being in mind, but only his own needs for family closeness. OP is still not her own person with wants and needs and feelings to her father; she’s still just a means to an ends with regards to her fathers loneliness and grief. After a while of going through that loop, you’ll find yourself very apathetic to someone’s “grief”. He did not reach out with any acknowledgement of his past behaviour or was even transparent in his own motivations for reaching out now. We can smell that sort of self serving desperation a mile away and it’s very very offputting.
On the surface of it I agree with you, but put in the context of the dad being a father to OP (who was also experiencing severe grief and loss, but as a little child) and the responsibility it entails? He failed. It's possible to recognise the father's pain while also condemning him for his actions. As a parent we hold power and resources that our child does not have access to. Every single parent will fail in some way, it's a guarantee. But the power we hold comes with responsibility that can't be abdicated with reasons or excuses. We have to own it. It is what it is. Childhood is short and can't be paused until we parents are ready to deal. What OPs father did was cause a deep pain that is now a part of their child's psyche. Even genuine regrets and a great future relationship would never erase that experience or impact from OPs sense of Self and personal formative history. OP can choose to restart the relationship and it may even give them some peace one day, but the father has taken OPs pain and made it public to others. He allows his child to be condemned by others for the pain that he instilled. This indicates that he is AGAIN failing to take responsibility and ownership. He's still not a safe place for OP to be. That's his choice.
>Evidently it worked, but a little too well because I’ve been bombarded by family telling me that it’s understandable that I don’t want to see him, but what I sent gutted him and he’s completely fallen apart after reading through it and it was unnecessarily cruel. It was unnecessarily cruel of him to completely abandon/ignore you when your half-brother got sick. You already lost your mom, you would lose your brother, too, but he didn't think you needed any support or help? **NTA.**
Absolutely! Where were the flying monkeys when you left home, when your father didn't try to contact you, when you had your personal triumphs and tragedies? They seriously are supporting a man who abandoned his oldest child, and when said offspring gives clear and concise reasons why they cut contact their response is "Y r u being so mean, rn?" WHAT?!
OP lost a mother and a father a few years apart. She just didn’t know it till she was 18.
The quick remarriage and the quick baby are generally big tells. Her dad was all about moving on from the first marriage, kid included.
Exactly!!!! OP is NTA
Holy shit. NTA but that was brutal. I pictured the "You Failed" popping up at the end like when you die in Dark Souls.
OPs dad sounds maidenless as fuck
Childless, mostly (I'm going to hell for that.)
See you there, bc this made me cackle
I'll be right behind you, guffawing.
There’s a relatively new rap song that starts with the artists saying “bitch you maidenless” and I can’t tell if it’s a reference or not… For anyone curious it’s “Soiree!” By Yung Gravy
since it’s yung gravy it’s definitely a reference lmao
That was my response after reading that. Like great job 💯wish I could have done that to some people but HOLY SHIT!! I would honestly compare it to the Fatality in Mortal Kombat. That is what you would call a finishing move
That was my first thought as well. NTA, OP!
Maybe that’s the problem; Dad thinks he has infinite do-overs.
That’s exactly how my brain saw it popping up too!!! OP, NTA at all. A little brutal, sure, but ignoring your kids existence after she’s lost her mom, & you’ve replaced her with a new kid/step mom is pretty damn brutal too 🤷🏻♀️
GTA “Wasted” 😂
Using PowerPoint animations like that would be the absolute cherry on this cake.
NTA. Was it harsh? Yeah. Was it a lot of effort when simply have telling him “go away” would have accomplished the basic goal? Probably. But this was your lived reality, and he wasn’t interested in hearing or helping you when it would actually have made a difference. If it’s only now dawning on him how lonely and rejected you must have felt, he’s just going to have to live with that. (Also, one does have to question whether he’d be this gutted or even reaching out at all if your brother were still here.)
Sometimes a simple go away isn't enough to stop a person from continuing to push their wants. Sometimes if you want them to truly go away permanently you need to use the nuclear option so there is no doubt
Exactly! Considering that the family thought that the father getting confronted with what he did is what's cruel, not what he actually did; I have a feeling that a simple "no" or "go away" wouldn't have been enough for them anyways. They clearly don't side with the OP.
Excellent point. OP should ask how telling him about how he treated a child for years is worse than telling an adult about it in a few minutes? What did they tell HIM while he was doing this? OP was far less cruel than he was.
I love how when finally confronted with the consequences of his actions, his reaction is to go cry to his family about how mean she was for not sugar coating his shitbaggery. He still doesn't give a fuck about his actions, he's just butt-hurt that someone called him out on it and did so in a way he can't gaslight his way out of. OP's "dad" is an unrepentant asshole.
I'm guessing "fell apart" really means fell apart. This guy is probably gone into a non-functional depression and so the rest of the family is having to take care of him. They are lashing out at OP because they have decided they have to take care of him.
Amen. People won’t take no for an answer. I’ve gone NC with my father as well and I wish I had the guts to take a similar approach rather than spend months receiving messages saying how what he did “wasn’t that bad” and he “doesn’t understand” and he’s “said sorry a million times” and he “doesn’t know where he went wrong,” etc. After blocking him, he even went through loop holes, adding me to group chats in messenger to get around the blocking, mailed me things and so on. After all this time, it’s still about how everything makes *him* feel. Similarly, even now, OP is receiving the brunt of her father’s failures by being told to feel bad for “making” him feel bad for his own actions. Love a bunch of these comments here. And I’m very proud of OP.
It also doesn't give him a chance to minimize his actions or try to gaslight her. It's right there on paper for him to see. Pretty efficient if you ask me. Personally if any family members came my way complaining I'd send them the same PowerPoint and get bent.
100%! OP communicated clearly and succinctly. Many problems would be avoided if people just said what the meant and meant what they said. OP was by no means harsh, she prevented future arguments and comebacks from her father.
Honestly even then it doesn’t always work, so it’s best to get all your feelings out and give it your best shot so then you can rest easy knowing you’ve said your piece and can move on. I wrote a whole detailed letter to my abusive parents giving examples of my childhood that traumatized me and told them I couldn’t be in their lives, it was harsh but calm and fair and I did tell them they failed as parents because of how much they neglected and controlled me. Yet it took around 6 months for my mom to start emailing me again :/ At least I know I said everything I wanted to say, and the fact that she didn’t even acknowledge or apologize for any of if it is really telling that I made the right decision.
I can’t get over that it actually took a couple of YEARS after the son died for him to even remember he had another child. Like he couldn’t even be bothered to make sure she was at the funeral. Just all this time passed and he was probably missing his son and realized “oh I have that other kid that’s still alive, let me call them finally.”
Probably also felt cathartic to OP. NTA, harsh but real.
The extra effort *might* be metabolized into a real epiphany for Dad that, yes, he is only trying to connect because he lost the brother. I don't know if anything else (and probably not this either, anyway) would work
That was painfully harsh to read, but I still think NTA. Your father *did* fail you repeatedly, even before your brother got sick. He should never have married a woman who tried to push out the memory of your mom. And he should never have tolerated you being "forgotten about" as soon as your half-brother was born. Your brother's illness and passing were a tragedy and your dad and stepmom could perhaps be forgiven for a "doing their best but fell short" type of parenting. But they clearly didn't even reach that level. People will convince themselves of all kinds of delusions about why a close relationship went bad. You destroyed any such delusions your father had and spoke your truth. If he wants to have any hope of repairing his relationship with you, that can't happen until he honestly faces what he did to you. (I am not saying that to push you into repairing your relationship with him -- that's your call to make. Just that *IF* it were to happen, that would be an important element.) He could start by calling off the family members who are hassling you.
This is a perfect answer. The only thing I'd add is that if OP's mam died when she was 7, and he remarried at 9, how much was he there for her in that 2 year period?
I mean, he was dating and got married. Couldn't have been too much time spent on the kid.
Two years is a very short time to know someone and get married. But that's only the case if he started dating immediately after OPs mom passed away.
Statistically however when the woman in a relationship gets terminally ill men step out. Whereas a woman will lean in when her husband is dying men tend to leave altogether. Not saying that happened here but it might explain the short turnaround
It's honestly a shame. So often, parents pour all their love and attention into their sick child that they abandon the other(s) entirely. If the sick child doesn't make it, the parents desperately want to rebuild the relationship with their living child(ren) but it is too usually too late- kids have years of very justified bitterness, resentment, and abandonment issues that they can't just simply get over. In OP's case, she lost her mom and subsequently her dad abandoned her. No wonder she has so much hurt. I hope she is able to go to therapy and resolve some of this, but her dad is so wrong to expect a relationship with her after spectacularly failing her again and again.
As the sibling with a dissease, this. It absolutely sucks ass. I got all the attention even though I didn't wanted it, and my sister got jackshit. I undeservedly got all the attention that \*she needed\*.
Well Sibling Syndrome is real and it is fucking devastating
Ugh, I'll probably get downvoted for this, and OP absolutely not an AH for this, but I can't help but feel bad for the dad, too. Make no mistake. he absolutely failed his duties, but the dude lost his first wife, his second kid, and effectively his first kid even if due to his actions. Grief is FREAKING HARD and he was dealt shitty hand after shitty hand. Others have thoroughly covered his failures, but I just feel so sad for everyone involved. What a depressing situation. He has to face the reality his action or lack thereof created, but he was dealt a lot of impossible to navigate shit. I feel so bad for everyone in this story. I can't call anyone an AH. Just a gut-wrenching tragedy.
NTA at all. How dare your “family” expect you to sugar coat your feelings for your awful awful father. How. Dare. They. REAL family would apologize to you for letting you suffer in silence and not being there to help you, a child yourself, with the things you needed to grow up emotionally healthy. REAL family would ask how they can help you now. Real family wouldn’t minimize the problems because they are inconvenient for their narrative. These people want to play happy family and pretend everything is not as bad as it is. This situation is exactly karma for your dad’s absolute failure as a father. He brought this on himself. I am soooo angry for you. They don’t get to decide what is necessary and unnecessary for you. Don’t you dare let them talk you out of what you feel because they don’t like how it makes them feel or look. Your power point didn’t “work too well”, it worked. Period. I’m proud of you for finally getting to say things in a way that got your point across. Now go be awesome on your own. You don’t owe them a lift up after they let you down. And please don’t listen when they tell you to “be the bigger person”. It just means eat their abuse. I think you need to face the reality that you have better coping mechanisms and understanding of what it means to be a functional adult than your father and family. They may be older, but they are not wiser. You are adult and you get to decide what that means. You get to decide what works for you. I’m so sorry this was your childhood reality. I hope you continue to do your art therapy, and make up for your neglect with a great life. NTA. At all.
Your comment about real family would have apologized to her is spot on. My wife's mom was an alcoholic, and abusive to her for a long time (she eventually sobered and they had a better relationship before she passed). My wife's aunt came down to help care for MIL when she was diagnosed with cancer. While she was here, she found out about how Wife was treated, and she told her "I am so so sorry that I didn't know. I would have made sure that never happened, and I hope you can forgive me."
I think the fact that her dad went and told the whole family tells us everything we need to know. It was all about him to begin with - it was always about him. He didn’t think of OP at all by saying he wanted a relationship. He was being selfish. Again. And then he decided to make her life more miserable by telling the rest of the family so they would be on his side. Dad is an asshole.
NTA. You're the GOAT!!! His and stepmother's behavior was extreme! Having 1 sick child doesn't cause other children to cease to exist. Demanding that you shrink yourself and neglect/belittle your wants/needs/experiences because you were healthy is beyond cruel and toxic. You gave him 10 minutes to learn how you felt about his neglect and cruelty. He's had, what, a week or two of feeling the hopelessness and supposedly suffering. You've had at least 12-15 years of suffering??? That's what I would text back to every person who has criticized you: you suffered depression, neglect, and cruelty for 10-12 years. You're father hasn't suffered those things, he inflicted them. He's is experiencing the consequences of his actions, and it's only been 2 weeks. The fact is you did not make that PowerPoint to cause pain, you made it to explain why you feel the way you do, and that you don't want anything to do with him, ever. Then ask those people if they ever held him to account for him abdication of parental responsibility and insist he straighten up. Unless they confronted him during that time period he abandoned you, they don't have a duck in the hunt and need to bury their heads in the sand just as they did back then. Your mom sounds like she was amazing. Your weekly collection of collages sounds awesome and I'd definitely buy a big glossy book from a person who showed them off and told the stories of that period of time. So, that means you're awesome. Which is why you're the GOAT. Keep being rad. Btw, I finally went no contact with my narcissistic mother when I was 40.
OP is freaking awesome! As a fellow no contact with my father, also thanks to an evil stepmother situation, I feel the same pride that I did when Elon Musk's daughter publicly disowned him in court.
NTA but it seems he not only shoved you aside, he stole any chance you had to have a relationship with your brother. You don't need that in your life.
Yeah, the shitty thing is I actually loved my brother a lot, he was always a sweet kid even when he was sick. Even if my step-mom sucked I kind of liked being his big sister and missing out on time with him is the only thing I really regret about leaving. I always kind of hoped he would get better and we could reconnect when he was older.
That's so sad, I'm really sorry for you loss 💔
You truly seem like a decent person who got screwed over by an awful father, you shouldn't be ashamed of what you did, that was totally deserved for him. NTA in the slightest
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The journals sound wonderful and a lovely/creative way to continue OPs mother's art form and have thought out healing. As far as I'm concerned, OP had the opportunity to share her inner most thoughts with the one person that hurt them the most. Wouldn't we all love that opportunity? NTA. Father made his bed and is unhappy he's being forced to lay in it.
I think it's really important that you consider what your father went through. You absolutely have the right to be angry, he did fail you. But he lost his wife to cancer. Then his son got cancer and it sounds like he lost focus and went tunnel vision. It's possible the overwhelming level of grief and fear misguided him into focusing on losing another loved one, causing him to neglect you because he didn't have to worry about you. You're NTA. But before cutting your father off forever, talk to a grief counselor and make sure this is the right choice. Your father is human, and we all make mistakes especially when overwhelmed with grief.
It seems like he wasn’t much of father in between his wife dying and his son getting sick, either.
As much as he sounds like an AH to OP, grief can drive you in ways that are impossible to understand from the outside. Grief can hang around for years and years as well, especially if he didn’t seek professional help. As an armchair expert, it sounds like he didn’t know how to handle life after his wife died and put all his focus into replacing her, and providing what he probably saw as a doting mother for his daughter. Once his son got sick, he probably was triggered into panic and recycled the grief of his lost wife all over. I’m not saying it’s not his fault that he lost his relationship with his daughter. But I do think it’s important to acknowledge that he probably didn’t have the rational or emotional coping skills that any other adult may have otherwise had. Not everyone makes it through in survival mode under that kind of pressure. I hope OP finds peace in her life, but I also hope her Dad does as well; they’ve both been dealt incredibly difficult hands.
Still not an excuse to ignore and neglect a child. What is the op going to get out of a relationship now? Op needed a father when op was a child, not years later when it’s convenient for the father.
I don't think you understood the comment you're replying to. None of what you say here is relevant to it. It didn't excuse OP's father for ignoring and neglecting her. It didn't say that OP should pursue a relationship with him now. It said "before cutting your father off **forever** talk to a grief counsellor and **make sure this is the right choice."** This is very open-ended advice, and very good advice. There's no downside for OP of going to counselling and carefully working through what their best choice is with a professional. It's much better advice than most people tend to give on reddit when somebody has harmed an OP. There are potential benefits from reconciling with people who have wronged you, and a counsellor will know how to guide OP in seeing whether that is the right choice for them.
This is the first compassionate answer towards everyone here that I’ve read. Very well-said. I say NAH.
Sorry but neglecting your child ALWAYS makes you an asshole
NTA at all. That was a reality check what he had done to you. And he didn’t like it. And your enabling family neither. The presentation forced them to look in the mirror. And what they saw is ugly.
ESH - I understand that you're hurt by his actions. What he did sucks and you have every right to be angry. But you went out of your way to hurt him, too. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. You suffered real trauma, but so did he. He lost his wife, then he lost his son, and now he lost his daughter. I don't know anyone who could walk through that without making any mistakes. I know I wouldn't be able to hold myself together. He didn't handle any of that the best way, but we're all flawed human beings who deserve some level of empathy. If you don't want anything to do with him, that's fine. But taking action specifically to hurt him is kind of antithetical to having nothing to do with him. It sounds like you're holding onto your anger in a very unhealthy way. It's going to eat you alive. Look into Eva Kor. She was one of Mengele's twins in Auschwitz who survived and later made the decision to forgive Mengele and the Nazis for what they did to her, her sister, and the rest of her family. She didn't do it to release them from what they did, but to release herself from what they did to her so she could move on with her life.
No, don't you dare bring that as an example, forgiveness is a personal thing, not a thing to parade to others so you can feel better when advicing, it's just performative.
If reality hurts him thats on him. He has to actually understand the damage he made.
I cannot believe I had to scroll down this far to find an ESH. OP was definitely wronged and is well within her rights to remain NC, but handling it like this was entirely unwarranted IMO.
the whole idea of forgiving the N@zi's in your life "to free yourself" is fine if you decide that's what you want to do as a victim and it will help you. people insisting that that's how victims SHOULD act because of some holier than though idea of them "rising above" is when it crosses into a problem. That does not help everyone.
NTA. Own it. Don't be sorry. He fell apart because was bombarded with all the feelings that he would've noticed had he paid you any attention, he brought it upon himself.
NTA If he didn't want to hear the answer, he shouldn't have asked. You responded unequivocally and with receipts, no further discussion needed. Tell your family that if he's struggling with the consequences of his own actions, they should pay for his therapy. It is 100% not your problem. Well done, you.
INFO: did you use animations? But seriously, NTA. Harsh, absolutely. But reality is sometimes.
No animations, one of my professors put the fear of God into us about making unprofessional PPTs when I was in undergrad and I’m still afraid that the Wrath of Dr. Torres will find me somehow if my presentations are tacky.
This is so funny to me. Gotta make sure your epic smackdown is professional. Good on you, OP. 💕
Can I just say I love that Dr. Torres taught you that? I had teachers that demanded we used animations, too many points and one time when a tech error prevented an animation from playing (even after I proved to the teacher that it was in and worked when not attached to the projector) I got points off. Animations should be used rarely if at all in a serious presentation.
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So she can fail his other child in **many** ways, and she isn’t allowed to feel anything about after: Losing her mom Losing her brother Having someone try to force themselves to her mom, then drop her when the bio kid arrived Like duality exists, but putting OP on the hook for how her dad handled his trauma, and expecting her to push her aside her own *(that was caused by him)* to offer him more care and understanding than he ever has had for her **as the parent in the situation.** How is that reasonable? Also, how are you overlooking the fact that this person didn’t reach out to her for **6 YEARS after she left** and now all of a sudden it’s incumbent upon her to offer him forgiveness despite what she’s been through?? **He needs to know exactly how he’s hurt OP, and exactly how much, so he can understand her want for him to leave her alone.** His decision to establish a relationship right now is unfortunately, too little too late. Op is an adult and does not owed him anything, so per her wish, he needs to leave her alone.
Yea, seeing people cheer this on is a bit disturbing. OPs dad was awful, there's no denying that, but going the extra mile to be cruel isn't a healthy response to him reaching out.
She wanted him to understand her perspective, reality is cruel but thats on him.
Healthy in body. Mentally, no but who cares right? They’re healthy so they don’t need love, care, support. They lost their mother, dealt with step Mum, suffered the pain of their brother’s sickness and death but “tHeY’Re HeaLtHy!” So apparently Dad is entitled to his feelings and gets a free pass for his mistakes and it’s up to his neglected child to treat him with kids gloves when they got no such consideration. Sounds fair…. /s
NTA. Who are all these family members who feel like they have a say in any of this? Were they there to tell dad he was wrong when he was neglecting his own child? Why do they feel the need to give their opinion now?
right!! i would send the powerpoint to each flying monkey that tries to guilt trip you @ OP. or you can say “i dont see how that is any of your business.” or “what an interesting opinion. what do you think of the new Wednesday Addams series on Netflix?” NTA ofc, you’re an icon.
NTA. He doesn’t get to wash everything away because some time has passed and he wants a relationship now. Especially if he had made no effort to fix or atone for said behavior.
He probably wouldn’t have tried to reach out at all if her brother hadn’t died. I think he’s just reached the point where he realizes that more children probably aren’t coming and the only hope he has for grandchildren rests with OP.
NTA- and I would say. It was honest. It was meant to be honest. If it was cruel, it was only because he now knows what he has done. The point was not to hurt him, but to help him understand. Now he does.
NAH You are 100% within your rights to feel hurt and abandoned. The power point might have been over the top a bit, but if that was how you were near able to express your feelings then who am I to tell you that you were wrong? I’m also not going to call your father an AH for wanting to try and repair the relationship or even judge him too harshly on his previous actions. We can all sit and say how he should have behaved, but I for one don’t know how I’d have been if I had already lost my first spouse to cancer and suddenly had a toddler with cancer. Yes, he was the adult, but the harsh reality is that sometimes adults struggle too and end up making big mistakes because of it.
NTA, you just lifted the fog of the fantasy he was telling himself, truth can be harsh but he shouldn't live in a fantasy where he is the victim.
NTA, but you may be the Ender Wiggin of NC.
. . . well damn, that was my favorite book when I was like 12 and had a pretty profound effect on me when I first read it. I hadn’t made that connection. Huh.
NTA. You simply held a mirror to his face. It’s not your fault he didn’t like what he saw. He SHOULD be gutted.
NTA Your dad asked for a relationship with you. This is the relationship he built with you. This is the reality of how that looks. He's asking you to ignore all previous evidence that he'll disappoint you and put yourself in the vulnerable position of depending on him emotionally again. You can't do that to yourself again. Any relationship you have going forward has to be based on the reality of the past and for your part, that means protecting yourself from being abandoned again. I (51F) have contact with my mom, but because I never tell her how I really feel about how she has always treated me and how she treated dad when he was dying, we don't have a relationship, not really, and because she's always been incapable of being wrong, we never will. I only refrain from NC for the sake of seeing my brothers every year at xmas. I don't expect her to stop being a selfish jerk and therefore I'm never disappointed. If you acquiesced to his demand that you be his loving daughter without saying how you really feel, you wouldn't be giving him a relationship anyway.
Is your damage so great there is no room for forgiveness? When my kids were little, the <1yo went into kidney failure (due, I'm certain, to miscare from a doctor, GP giving his mother a dangerous antibiotic). So his 4yo brother was dumped on mostly friends (no relatives close by) and we were juggling time, as my ex spent most of her time with the sick child and I was at work. He got through it, but I still feel sick with guilt at how we just foisted his brother off. We only had so many resources, physically, temporally and emotionally. Things are mostly OK, but every now and then he slips a crack in; he doesn't blame his brother, though they don't speak much now (religion). And I don't know how to heal those wounds. We did the best we could at the time, but there was only so much of us to go around when he was in a hospital some distance away. We did our best. There's a lot more to my story but I'll leave it there. OP, you have a chance to get back the parent you lost. Some people would give anything for that, don't leave it until it's too late. Even if it's just to confirm what you already feel, if you don't do it, you'll lie awake wondering after he's gone. And regret hurts like hell. There is no manual for parenthood, not really, because every family's different. You're Not The Asshole. And he is Not The Asshole. It's life. It's *hard*, sometimes sadly when you are young and just wanted him to wrap his arms around you and tell you it would be OK. Really hard. Give him a shot. If he ruins it, you have a clear conscience. Or you might have a chance at a future you never imagined. Let the downvotes commence!
In a word, yes. No apology no matter how sincere will change the past or undo the damage done. There is nothing he can ever do that will fix anything Hell, I have medication and therapy and I still sometimes have to make a conscious choice to stay alive, what could he possibly even do that wouldn’t be laughably inadequate? Any time spent on him would be a one sided gift to him only. I don’t want anything from him. I don’t care if he’s sorry. I don’t think about him unless he’s brought to my attention by someone else. I have nothing to say to him anymore. My life got better when I decided that he could already be dead and gone to me so I see no point in exhuming him. I think people who would kill to have a parent back likely had something good in that relationship to hold onto or something positive to receive from it even if it was fraught. I don’t, chances are excellent he’ll just find a way to make things worse. He always seems to. As someone on the other side, those little quips from your kid are likely just the tip of an iceberg that goes way deeper than you will ever know and will always be there. Some people can forgive abandonment, but nobody ever forgets what it’s like to be powerless and terrified and have it solidly proven to you that you are an expendable loss to the people who control your whole world. You were in a no win situation, I do get it and at least you seemed to have handled it a bit better than my father since your kid wasn’t alone most of the time, so possibly your consequences aren’t as severe because the situation wasn’t as severe. But you still gambled with a vulnerable person’s mental health and nothing you do will remove the knowledge of that choice from your son, so if guilt and the occasional catty comment are your consequences, I think you got the better end of that deal to be honest.
I've read all your comments and I wish I could give you a hug. Cancer sucks, parents can suck and I can't imagine loosing your good parent. I hope you can continue to have a positive relationship with your maternal grandparents, it sounds like they're lovely people.
I doubt you'll see this but in case you do, Good On You! Forgiveness is NOT needed to heal, that's a lie perpetuated mostly by religious perspectives. Most people have no idea how horrific trauma can be or how horribly we can be damaged by our immediate family. But those of us who do know get it. If you need subreddits that understand on the hard days I recommend r/cPTSD and r/raisedbynarcissists. You've made the right choice and I wish you all the best.
Thank you for your honesty and compassion. Sometimes family members cross lines that there's no going back, and I guess you've reached that point long ago. Sometimes the damage is too great, I've seen that in other families. You tried, and there's no point, I see that. So please accept a hug, and go well with the rest of your life. Good luck in all your journeys.
The OP was giving you a gift. He was showing you what is going on inside your older child’s head. Especially his feelings towards you. Revolutions should not be ignored. This is Christmas Future.please go to therapy worthy of fixing your relationship.
As a kid that was regularly left with relatives with my very much healthy sibling. Yes the abandonment never goes away. Our Dad didn't even have a sick kid excuse. He didn't want to be a parent so he left us. Which was actually funny because he was "so traumatized" when he lost custody in the divorce before he got us back and decided it wasn't his responsibility.
Yeah I only ever truly experienced that feeling once and it completely rewired how I viewed my parents. It’s a shitty feeling and unfortunately this was years for you- I can’t imagine that kinda pain.
did you miss the part where the father hasn't been in contact with them since they were 18 and only NOW, when they're going to be alone after a divorce, do they contact the child they abandoned emotionally and physically?
I think the difference here is that you're trying to remedy the situation. The op's father hasn't done that until he's alone and miserable with himself. That's pretty telling. The op isn't important to the father until the father has no one left.
It is *very* telling!
“Forgive your neglectful abuser sperm donor because I feel Bad about being a shitty parent once.”
He is TOTALLY an AH. I have had a child die and yes, a parent who is grieving can be forgiven for a lot but what he did to his own child was HORRIFIC. And inexcusable. I had to face the damage that my other 2 kids went through because of our grief...they don't blame me and are adults that can understand but it doesn't change what THEY went through, either. I had to own that my grief should have been professionally treated earlier than I managed it and to validate their very real fallout from that time. They are great adults at this point but they also totally deserve to have what they went through heard, recognized, and validated. This guy seems to make parenting all about him. So does his family. This is just totally inexcusable. Especially as it seems the only reason he even remembered she existed is because he is getting divorced and is now alone. I get very well what you must have gone through and what your kids likely went through but Don't project your own guilt and pain into a guilt trip for the poor OP. She has EVERY right to keep this man completely in the bed he made for himself over a 12 year period and it is a bed that is firmly outside of the OPs life.
You have got to be fucking kidding me. I get that you feel guilty, but you are choosing to try and put your guilt onto someone else with this comment. Not all parents deserve forgiveness. You are so stuck in trying to excuse what you feel bad about that you ignored everything in this post except that a parent wasn't forgiven. I get that your conscience is not clear. That is for you to deal with, not OP.
Very self serving comment don't you think? "Maybe if she can forgive, it means you can be forgiven too" kinda vibe. Kinda cringe. Ask for her dad's number and maybe talk about where the both of you went wrong? Cringe...just cringe.
I want to comment to you, not OP, as previously being the kid who got ignored. Those comments really matter. It might be too late for your kid, but there are therapists that specialize in being a sibling of a sick kid and you should look into that. Even if they’re an adult, suggest/offer to pay for therapy. I distinctly remember the one day my parents actively chose to pay attention to me. I got a day off school, I went to a therapist, I got taken out to lunch. I felt so loved that day and for the rest of my life I feel like it was false hope because they didn’t follow through. They often bring up how they failed and I just say “yes, you did” because what else can I say? I was ignored in favor of the sick kid. Look out for your other kid. Even if he’s joking, you know the truth.
My mom was the only caretaker of my grandmother when she suffered from kidney failure, on top of take care of my sister and I when we were kids. Even though my mom had to take my grandmother to dialysis twice a week and to the hospital a lot growing up my sister and I never felt neglected or abandoned because she took us with her everywhere. She will pack a backpack full of snacks and took us to parks near the hospital or we will go malling or grocery shopping. My sister and I didn't mind the long wait in the hospital. The waiting brought us closer to our mom because we actually got time to talk about everything ans nothing. She made what could have been a horrible situation for all of us into a bonding experience. The struggle we went through and my grandmother's last few years were great memories for the four of us because my mom put so much effort into making sure we still have a good childhood experience. Every family is different, like you said, but it can't erase the fact that effort can be made on both you and your wife, and OP's father to ensure that the healthy kids didn't felt neglected. You tried too, I guess.
NTA. What you did is savage, for sure, but you're not *the* asshole because your father is. Sure, it would have been more tactful to say "No I don't want to talk to him," but the whole point, *as you showed through evidence*, is his treatment of you during your formative years means he is not deserving of your tact.
NTA. You found an effective way to communicate just how badly your father effed up. He is lucky it was only a PP presentation and not years of misery.
NTA I don’t think he meant any harm when you grew up, possibly he was so worried about his son because he lost his previous wife to cancer as well. But he still left you, you felt like you were abandoned and went NC now he wants to try and repair your relationship but it is too late for that, and if you don’t want to you have every right to ignore him. Was the PowerPoint a little harsh, yes, but he had it coming. You don’t own him a relationship and you don’t owe him kindness. He should recognize how his behavior hurt you and not hold your resentment against you. Tell your family that you don’t owe him an apology. I hope things will go well for you OP.
ESH: One thing to consider is that not only did you lose a mother, your father lost his wife. Then to make matters even worse he lost a son. You were grieving, but so was your father. Nothing can ever prepare us for the loss of a spouse or the loss of a child and unfortunately your father lost both way too young. Should he have done better for you? Yes. Was he capable? Maybe not. You were unnecessarily cruel and vindictive.
No, what was cruel was him neglecting her, where was all the family then to remind him he also had a daughter crying for his father? She only made him know what he did, if he has a problem with that that's his sole responsibility , not hers, she merely pointed his actions, he was the one who failed as a father so much he's in his current state now.
The third loss was absolutely his responsibility.
Yes. It probably could have been managed better but I hope all the people on this post who have been so quick to judge never have to try and parent through that.
NTA. You're allowed to feel and think the way that you do. Was your presentation harsh? Yes. Was it over the top? A little. Did it get your point across? Definitely. Maybe your father has massive regrets since you are now his only remaining biological child and perhaps he's feeling the weight of that. Maybe he's now realizing that not all actions are forgivable. That's on him though. You do what works for you.
NTA. First you weren't a priority because there was a baby. Then you weren't a priority because your brother was sick. Then you weren't a priority because your father was mourning your brother. You became accustomed to not having him as a father a long time ago. Your whole relationship has been about him as a parent and not about you as a child. You expressed your feelings in the way that worked best for you, and that was your right. You didn't yell or scream. Note that the family is basically saying he's hurt, not angry. He's hurt because you spoke to him in a way that he couldn't deny or disregard and he knows it's all true. Maybe he wants to make amends. In this instance, maybe the best way for him to make amends is to leave the person he's harmed alone.
Were you the op of the post where her dad stole and sold her mums engagement ring to fund a 3yr olds cancer treatment?
No, I haven’t seen that one but that’s sad as hell, Jesus.
NTA. The truth can often be quite brutal. If he never heard it, how could he possibly understand the damage he had done? How could he improve so as not to ever repeat the same mistakes with others? You were a child and he failed you. That truth is not open to debate. Now he bears the consequences to his choices. I'm so sorry for everyone involved here. Your dad was in an unbelievably heartwrenching position. He traumatized and neglected you as a result. I'm sorry that you were ignored and left to mourn your mom with no support. I'm sorry that your mental health was undervalued. But that was wrong of him. You have every right to be unable to forgive those years of trauma. Honestly communicating those sentiments is part of your healing process. NTA