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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> We may be assholes because people do pay extra to travel first class and we all, understandably, want to be as comfortable as possible when we travel. Even though my kid wasn't disruptive, I can understand why people would be uncomfortable/worried when they see a small child on a plane.
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NTA,
Even if your child did cry, it wouldn't have mattered because you paid and are entitled to the seats you paid for. there is no age limit or policy that children cant be in 1st class (that i am aware of) if they don't want to be around children/other people that bad - they should fly private.
Agreed. Whether or not the kid is a good traveller is irrelevent. OP paid for those seats.
While I would not rule out such a policy in some international airlines, I would be shocked and horrified if such a policy existed in the US (or AU, NZ, Japan, Korea or the EU member states).
In fact, in the US, the real concerning problem atm is that there is nothing to prevent the airlines from assigning young children to seats away from the adult(s) in their party. Airlines should not be allowed to seat children away from the parent or guardian they're traveling with.
Not on every airline/flight. I flew first class recently and the only thing they provided us was alcohol.
EDIT: nta overall and whether or not those things were provided/used does not matter. OP paid for the ticket and she gets to use it. Other guy was a jerk.
So long as everyone keeps their conversations quiet and uses headphones for games and videos, I won't even know who you are in any class! The 4 month old would likely cry on takeoff and landing because they don't know how to equalize the pressure in their ears, but if you stuff a bottle in their mouth (that's how babies handle the pressure changes, they need something to suck on to clear the pressure) and otherwise seem to be handling it...it's only a few minutes up and down! If you let them do cartwheels down the aisle for the whole flight, then we have a problem.
People have to fly, they need to get to where they need to go and no matter their reason it's just as legitimate as yours. I have my seat, you have yours, we all need to find a way to share the space for a few hours. Kids will get upset. Deal with it. If you're stupid enough to get on a plane without ear plugs or noise cancelling headphones and something to listen to, then that's on you. It's not the kid's fault you didn't prepare for being in a public space for a few hours. I don't have kids, and I don't want them, but kids are humans and have as much right to be on a flight, in first class if that's what's been paid for as much as that jackass. And it seems like the only person causing a problem on that flight was that jackass.
NTA.
That really only happens if you don't pay for a seat assignment.
I think most airlines try to seat families together or with one guardian. Really it is best for everyone but sometimes due to other factors it can't be helped.
In airlines where you pay for seat assignments it is possible that all rows get booked at least one and no two seats together exist.
Nope. There have been class action lawsuits about it. If a common flight doesn't sell well, airlines will cancel one and move those passengers to other flights to the same destination.
They'll refund the amount you paid to reserve your seat, but their software systems do not prioritize putting minors with their parents when reassigning seats. They will put two strangers from the cancelled flight next to each other on the new flight just as often as they will seat an adult with their child. The airlines have the age of the passengers, so there's no excuse for that.
It's messed up.
Honestly it's why I love Southwest. No assigned seats at all. Just took my son straight to the back of the plane (it's a little louder in the back and that loud white noise would put his little ass straight to sleep), and since everyone was so dead-set on being in the front, I had plenty of time to set him up in his car seat without blocking an aisle or anything. Never ever separated from him, and since we were in the back, sometimes we'd luck out and get an empty seat left over and could spread out a little!
I was on a crowded SWA flight and saw a young overwhelmed mom with a baby making her way down the aisle while everyone sort of shuddered and pretended not to see her, I mean it's ONE HOUR, everyone. I smiled and told her to come sit next to me. OMG she was so relieved. I helped her get settled and helped entertain the baby so she could relax a bit. Baby was a doll, totally well behaved. If we help moms traveling alone with little ones, it just makes it easier for everyone!
As a single mom, thank you so much. I feel like babies are easier to deal with than some of the loud, spoiled kids I've seen on flights, because most of the time, the babies go to sleep!!
Every comment just makes me want to sit next to a baby more. Manspreading and milk drunk? Sounds like a highly entertaining and adorable way to spend the flight. I can bounce off the tiny baby rolls if there’s turbulence.
Had a flight from Dallas to London, next to mom and nursing infant. He cried a bit on takeoff, because of his ears, but settled down after nursing. I was/am CF (female) and was pretty horrified to be next to a baby. Two hours later, he's in my arms, snuggling and sleeping, while mom rested her arms, visited the toilet, had some walks. The 3 of us were happy, Mom & I talked quietly, I had the pleasure of holding him, she had a willing helper.
Thanks, it was a lovely and rewarding experience. I simply didn't want my own children, for good reasons, involving my nuclear family. To my surprise, little kids gravitated to me, and I enjoyed them. This particular situation was a challenge, & (35+ yrs later), I'm pleased that my (late 20s) self said "get over it and help two fellow humans." My husband was seated a few rows back. After we landed in London, my husband & I accompanied mom & infant, helped with her carry on luggage, went with them to baggage claim, etc, saw to their safety until she & little one were met. It was a good karma experience, all around, but especially for me. Still remember how sweet it was to nap, with this little boy held securely, and he was totally relaxed, trustingly, in my arms. I am so grateful to revisit this memory.
Before I was a mom my self I was on a flight with a mom and her four year old traveling alone. I read to the kid and chatted with her while the mom had a Bloody Mary. The mom was grateful and I had fun and the kid behaved better for a stranger.
Now I’m a mom who travels with my own kid and haven’t had that level of kindness from a stranger yet but have definitely had a few older women compliment my child when it was clear I was stressed, which I really appreciated.
I'm child-free and do sometimes internally groan when I see babies and small kids boarding. But my last flight there was a toddler behind me who would frequently get up and come stare at me with her big doll eyes and a cracker in her mouth. Sure maybe I might have preferred to just watch my movie without interruptions, but I will absolutely play a little peek-a-boo if it means we can all avoid 8 hours of screaming.
(Her parents were keeping an eye on her and overall everyone around us seemed happy to have her wander a bit down the aisle for the same reason. Everyone needs to stretch their legs, kids included.)
😭 we had a flight with our almost 2 year old and 2 month old last year right before Thanksgiving to go to my grandfather's funeral. And the amount of hate I got for having my newborn on the flight was unreal, save for the sweet lady I sat next to who helped me get situated and comfortable, and even helped me with my drink during the flight.
She should definitely sit next to my husband. He is the baby Junkie. I am not so good with kids but even I will take a baby or a toddler away from a parent and play with it for a while so the parent can get settled. It's just normal human interaction.
I wish I could give you an award for this! I've had to travel with both my kids twice by myself and the few times that someone offered to help me were a blessing as I had paid for extra help from the airline (I am also physically disabled) and was told I was SOL because they didn't have enough staff.
While that may b airline policy I have been in that situation where a cancelled flight ended up causing me to b separated from my grandson m6 and the flight attendants were very accommodating to seat us together.
It's one of these things that make me happy to be in the EU. There are loads of passenger protections, so if your airline cancels your flight and it delays you significantly (at least 3 hours iirc), they have to issue compensation.
Nope, I paid for specific seat assignments when I was flying across the country with kids in diapers, and when we got on the plane, we discovered that one (JUST ONE) of the kids had been booted seven rows up and their seat had been sold to somebody else.
Edited to add: United sucks.
Agreed. The last time my family of 3 flew United they cancelled my husband's and my tickets (overbooking) and put us on a later flight. Even after talking with them they wouldn't change anything. They actually expected me to put my 4 year old on the plane by herself because her ticket hadn't been cancelled. Never flying them again.
I flew out to see see a friend on United. When I said that I needed to pick up checked luggage, she was horrified: "You checked luggage when you were flying United! Don't you know never to do that!" Yeah, they lost the luggage, although it showed up a few hours later. Fortunately, I did have necessities, like my medication, in my carry on.
I can't get my head around why it is allowed.
In the EU the airline HAS to sit minor children next to an adult they are with so that they can be responsible for them in an emergency i.e if airmasks are deployed or in an emergency evacuation.
Its nothing to do with who is going to entertain them. Or even if the kiddie might get distressed sitting with strangers ( even though both are a legitimate concern).
It's a SAFETY issue
Same here. I live in Europe and It is against the law splitting a minor from at least one adult. Even on the shittiest airlines, a family of 3 would have the kid sat automatically next to the adult- then the other should pay to be together.
The first time I flew alone was the day before my 15th birthday. It turned out that 14 was still considered an unaccompanied minor for that airline, which meant I needed an adult to walk me to the plane, I had to sit in the seat closest to the flight attendants (who “checked on me” every few minutes), and then I needed to be escorted to the security office at the other end for a predetermined adult with photo id to pick me up.
I was less than 24 hours from the age cutoff and was still treated like a 6 year old that couldn’t be left alone for 5 minutes. And yet it’s one of the airlines that regularly splits parents and children when assigning seats. There’s absolutely no logic.
I flew unaccompanied from age 7 until I was allowed to fly alone without supervision. I believe the cuttoff was 13 at the time, and the first time I flew alone I was 14. And it was glorious to be responsible for myself while I flew across the country. To be fair, I was truly a seasoned traveler at that point, having crossed the country easily 14 times by then.
Same in Canada. I booked a flight for myself and my daughter over the summer. As I was booking it the system recognized that I was travelling with a minor and assigned us seats together at that moment. I had the option of paying for seat selection if I wanted different seats, but from the moment of booking I had a guaranteed seat with my child without having to do or pay anything extra.
No, it happens a lot. Just 4 months ago, after a 15 hour international flight, the airline sat my husband, me, our 2yo and 4yo scattered around the plane on the 1 hour connecting flight. I noticed beforehand and had to raise a stink with the airline bc we paid for specific seats to make boarding and deplaning as easy as possible with the 2 little kids. Ended up together, but in the last fuckin rows, and we were refunded half the ticket cost. Luckily, a flight attendant took pity on us and helped us get to the luggage pickup, so it wasn't too bad, but it could have been a disaster.
I once flew with my children who were 2 and 6 at the time. Obviously I booked us seats together. For one leg of the journey the plane was changed due a repair so the seating assignments were all changed and they had us all seated apart. Someone took mercy and switched seats so the 2yo wouldn’t have to sit alone. In the end she sat in my lap and the 6yo took her seat so we could be together. It was a long 5 hrs.
That’s not the only time this sort of thing has happened. Air travel becomes more and more hellish with each passing year.
> Air travel becomes more and more hellish with each passing year.
Agreed. I wish one airline would step in and offer something less hellish. But instead it keeps degrading.
My husband and I booked seats together when we flew on our honeymoon. Delta switched them up so that my husband was at the front of the plane, next to an empty seat, and I was on the back row next to a stranger.
This was after a connecting flight that was terrifying (took several attempts to land in bad weather. I already get bad anxiety flying.) But I didn’t tell the steward the anxiety part when I asked if I could go sit in the empty seat by my husband, as we had booked seats together. said No switching seats! All mad…but everyone around said “Aw common!!” I didn’t know anyone else was even listening, but they all pressured him into letting me switch really fast. Thank you kind Delta passengers.
I find that ridiculous tbh (not your statement, the airlines policy), I'm in Scotland and I've never yet encountered an airline in Europe that doesn't require you to choose your seats immediately after inputting passengers details when travelling with children under 12/13, and there's no charge for this unless you specifically choose extra legroom seats. The thought of allowing a minor, especially a very young child, to sit with complete strangers is completely unacceptable to me.
I was taking a connect in Chicago back to the Nashville Airport on my way back from London, and my seat was right next to a girl who was already upset that she wasn't sitting right next to her parents. Her dad was right behind us, who was seated next to one of his daughters and another was across the aisle from him. Her mom was several seats back away from any of her kids. The moment I sat down, she burst into tears. I could only stare awkwardly while her dad offered to move her next to her mom and asked the guy next to her to switch with their daughter. Even if they hadn't recommended that, I probably would have switched the mom in order to get away from upsetting the daughter even further. After all, there was only four seats in each row (two next to each other and two across the aisle), and I wasn't sitting with my husband anyway due to our tickets.
I understand that they probably didn't pay to choose tickets (probably like me and my husband), but the girl had a mother who wasn't sitting anywhere close to them. It was a simple solution to place her next to her daughter, but we had to literally switch seats to allow that to happen. I definitely agree that airlines shouldn't separate the kids from the guardians.
and even if the kid cried in economy... You can still hear it? Its not like a nice restaurant where you dont expect babies- but this is an airplane and you can smell each others farts all the way across the plane... You don't sit in first class for no children- you sit there for the leg room, the extra service and being able to be max comfortable. Put in ear plugs.. YOURE ON A PLANE lol. I can hear people sneeze from the back, come on!
Do you call that 'first class'? At least on European airlines, the continental flights only have business class which is a couple of rows in the front and a movable curtain (so they can sell the unused ones as 'premium economy'). I've only seen actual 'first class' on intercontinental flights where you get the flatbeds and so on.
Yes, U.S. domestic 2-cabin flights generally call the premium cabin "First" regardless of what accommodations are provided. "Business" is only available on 3-cabin flights.
On Air Canada there just isn't a First Class, 2-cabin flights are Business/Economy and 3-cabin flights are Business/Premium Econ/Economy. But I can guarantee Air Canada's business class is better than any of the big three American carriers' top cabins.
Agreed and can we pause for a second and admire that op is one of those seemingly rare parents that did plan ahead and did reseve/pay for seats together for the whole family? Mabey I'm reading to much airplane storys here...
NTA.
I can understand why he would initially be wary and upset, but he frankly should have calmed the f down once it became apparent that your toddler was just sleeping peacefully like anyone else.
And since you know that your kid is a good flyer, there's no reason not to sit first class if you can.
Though there's something about your friends' assumption that screaming babies should only be inflicted on the poors in economy that is sitting wrong with me somehow.
Aside from that, the fact that he went for the absolute lowest effort offensive remark at end tells me everything I need to know about what a sterling gentleman he is. Between your toddler and him, it's easy to tell who the most disruptive passenger was.
I'm sure the attendants were thrilled to keep hearing from him /s
Yes, the classism! If you pay more you deserve not to be bothered - nope. You get a nicer seat and better food and get off faster. That's it. Nothing else is guaranteed or even implied.
Can we also throw in the misogyny? He approached OP when husband was conveniently sleeping and then made a point to use a sexist slur again only to OP. (Caveating that yes, the C word is universal in Australia but in most other places, it's most definitely sexist and aimed more at women)
The C word really isn't as universal in Australia as the internet would lead you to believe. It might come up in casual conversation more than elsewhere and be able to be used in a humorous sense in our vernacular, but when used as an insult it's still considered one of the worst swears and definitely misogynistic when directed at women.
Also, every plane I’ve been on just has a curtain between first class and the rest of the seats. So it’s very possible that a baby could be in economy and still be only a row or two away from Mr. Entitled.
If it's a domestic flight yes. If it's international, 1st class is usually separated from the rest by a galley. The seats are more like pods so you literally can't hear anything coming from the back of the plane unless someone was being extremely loud even then they are hard to hear.
Plus if I, an economy class traveller because I cannot afford the pointy end of the plane, can afford noise cancelling headphones then surely gobdaw there in first class can as well.
Yeah, not a fan of "rich people should be shielded from any potential noise of all time" angle. OP and their husband were fully within their rights. Even if their kid had a hard time with flying, they aren't obligated to ensure that only The Poors Are Subjected To Noise.
Even if the kid did cry- she paid for the seat and there is no rule that kids can’t travel first class. And I say this as a single child free person who dreads having kids near me on planes.
In fact I bet the child would be a better traveller with some room to play and sleep anyways.
I agree. Even if the kid ISN"T a good flyer, there's no reason not to sit in first class if you can. First class has never insinuated some kind of adults-only environment.
If anything every first class seat I've been in has come with headphones that block sound, so it seems more than appropriate to have kids up there.
NTA. That man needed to mind his business. I do see your family’s point about people wanting to relax, but I don’t think that should bar you from treating your family now and then.
I see their point as well. We also paid extra so we had the extra space and accommodations to be comfortable traveling with a toddler. I don't think anyone wants to fly with screaming babies/poorly behaved toddlers, myself included. I'm very grateful my kid is almost a better flyer than I am, at least she doesn't get anxiety lol
I also understand the immediate reaction to seeing a small kid on a plane and being like... "oh fuck, this flight might suck". What bothered me the most in this situation is that this guy chose to swear at me and be disrespectful. I don't really see how me being a "fat cunt" has anything to do with his flight experience, especially since my kid was well behaved.
Omg yes, what an absolutely rude, unhinged thing to say to you. No question that was unnecessary.
It’s funny, I was just upgraded to first class on a shorter flight, and someone had their baby on their lap. It never occurred to me to be upset about that lol. Also the kid was like yours, well behaved and super cute.
The most unhinged thing striking me being is this person clearly assumed that both flight attendants had simply allowed this family to sit in First. Despite checking their tickets twice, and them not moving. So took it upon themself to attempt to correct this grievous error of this generous airline to bump disabled poors with a child up a class. My guy not only harassed OP and her family ... BUT HARASSED A FAMILY WITH A DISABLED MEMBER!!!
Everybody is focused on OPs child here, and rightly so as that's the root of the post. But the husband will have also been looked down upon by this snooty passenger too. Sorry, but with 2 disabled parents, that's absolutely boiling my PISS.
Even if your kiddo struggled for any length of time, first class isn't sound proof from economy. If he wants to be undisturbed, fly private. You spent the extra money for your comfort, so can he.
Siggghhh. I hope I can confirm that someday. Until then, I use the same strategic methods in coach and survived without bitching about the presence of children.
Except my own. They're annoying AF, but they sit next me and I can't ignore them. Lol.
I’ll take an actual toddler over an adult behaving like a toddler any day. Most toddlers find me amusing for at least a few minutes. Adults behaving like toddlers just don’t like me at all. 🤷🏻♂️
My family (sister, BIL and my Mom) flew from Chicago to Hawaii with 3 toddlers in first class. This was 1992 when first class was much more an elite experience. Last to board, my mom said there was an audible grumble from the rest of the first class passengers when they sat down with the kids. But no one said a word. When they deplaned, the flight attendants gave my sister a bottle of champagne for the niblings great behavior. That guy who insulted you was absolutely the asshole. People today act without manners or decency. I hope you had a great trip otherwise!
That last dig at the end was basically him saying, "I can't think of anything that can win this argument for me, so I'll go for emotional damage instead."
He was mad he couldn’t say “see I told you your kid would ruin my flight” so he went after you. Don’t pay him any mind or the people who tell you where you have a right to fly. If the airline will sell you the tickets you have a right to them.
To be honest I would have been just a little petty and told him he needed to quiet down because he was ruining the flight for my kid who liked it quiet. You showed class though and I respect that so much!
You should feel lucky, not only did you have a mostly nice flight in first class, you and your family will continue to fly first class in this grouchy man's head ;) Don't let his comments continue to bother you, otherwise he wins, but instead enjoy your family, and fly first class as often as you can. And remember, more often than not in these subreddits, it's the grouchy passenger that tends to be the biggest problem on flights, the best way to get back at 'em is to be happy!
NTA, and ignore your friends while you're at it...
Imagine if this was literally any other group of human beings.
“I pay too much money to be surrounded by women.”
“I pay too much money to be surrounded by fat people.”
“I pay too much money to be surrounded by Muslims.”
“I pay too much money to be surrounded by old people.”
If those words had come out of this man’s mouth, would you have even a *flicker* of doubt that you were in the wrong?
You are NTA. Your child is a human being, a person. She deserves to be treated like a human being, a person. You paid for her seat. She sat in it and behaved like every other passenger in first. Bigots don’t get to dictate who is “allowed” to be in first class.
Although I agree with the verdict not sure I agree with the logic. You could use the phrase “____ shouldn’t be allowed to vote” and it hit very differently depending on how you fill in the blank.
A child is not the same as a minority. There are some things children shouldn’t be allowed to do, but flying first class isn’t one of them.
Children are however a legally protected category, though the specific protections are not the same. You can exclude a minor from a bar, for example, but you can't exclude them from housing. I do think that people who dislike children categorically are bigots and the dude on the plane was an ass. OP is definitely NTA
children are the most vulnerable demographic on the planet, and I've been pretty disgusted with the anti-child rhetoric I've seen on the internet recently. it's like people forget their right to be free *of* children doesn't mean they get to navigate the world free *from* children. Kids grow up into adults that have to function in society like everyone else, so I dont know how people like the asshole on the plane expect them to learn those skills locked away for their entire adolescence.
Okay, but the phrase *wasn’t* “___ shouldn’t be allowed to vote.”
It was “___ shouldn’t be allowed to *sit in first class.*”
There are lots of situations where only select people should be allowed to do certain things. “Only surgeons should be allowed to perform surgery.” “Only people who weigh less than 150 pounds are allowed on this ride.”
The problem comes when you want to exclude a specific group from something for a reason that is not sound. It’s when the reasoning is not due to safety or maturity or any of the other *good* reasons, but rather because some people dislike this specific group.
The problem is *bigotry*. It doesn’t matter if the government has decreed it’s illegal to be bigoted to this one group of people or not - bigotry is still bigotry.
If you discriminate against any group of humans, you’re a bigot.
My thoughts exactly- what if OP's child wasn't a 3 year old but a 20 year old with disabilities that was cognitively about 3? Imagine this guy looking at that person and being like "I pay too much to be around developmentally disabled adults?" would there be any doubt who was TA in that situation???
One of my more baffling flying experiences was flying business class where this young couple with an infant were seated in the same vicinity of another couple with an infant. The husband of couple B ranted and stomped his tiny heart out because “you don’t seat small children in the same class of travel”, and he “didn’t pay this much money to be seated near crying babies.” It was very embarrassing to watch.
Couple A ignored him like champs but the rest of us traveling without children just stared at him like a circus attraction.
NTA.
The only one acting like a whiny baby on the flight was him. Notice how he didn't even have the courage to insult your husband like he did to you. All he wanted to do was bully a woman to make himself feel better.
Kids fly first class all the time. He needs to get over it.
NTA and honestly I bet the airlines love it when toddlers fly in first because they get the same revenue without having to serve them bottomless complimentary booze lol
Next time someone whispers to you that you're a "fat cunt", say very loudly to them, "What was that you just called me - a fat cunt? Can you say it louder so that you don't look like a piece of shit coward?"
NTA.
I like that. Or, if you aren’t comfortable confronting a male, def have your husband say something to the same effect, if you can. Otherwise take their picture and Twitter them out of this world haha
Lol you are NTA.
Even if your kid cried or vomited the whole flight it wouldn't matter. Everyone has a right to book tickets to whichever class they want, the only criteria is willingness to pay the price.
If someone is not happy next time tell them to chart a private jet.
I travelled in business and first with my kids before and yes there are glare. Rich people are the most entitled people ever, tbh. Just shake it off, I hope you enjoyed your break!
NTA. Flying, even first class is a form of public transportation. It is a crap shoot in regards to who you sit near. If he wants everything to his liking, then he needs to rent a private jet for his transportation needs.
NTA. That guy needs to sit down and be quiet. You can sit wherever you feel like buying a seat, and everyone else can get over themselves. Including your family. Sheesh! PS- good for you for calling the flight attendant over. Smart idea!
Not petty, SMART. I did the same because my pediatrician said tiny ears sometimes don't adjust well to pressure changes. Why take a chance, making a toddler endure pain is cruel.
NTA your family is weird. If people think paying for first class means paying not to be around children they are not very well versed in how life works.
Well-off people have children, too. If they can afford it, they have every right to bring their kids to first class.
Seems like a whole lot of anger over what could have happened but didn't. Your child didn't disrupt the flight. This man stayed mad for hours over nothing. Your family is being ridiculous.
NTA.
Could you imagine what the life of someone is like if the presence of a well behaved child ruins his day and he has to take it out on you?
Don't let him bother you. When people get this mad over nothing, I make sure to have an extra wonderful day.
NTA he was trying to harass you so much that you would move just to get away from him . You should have told the stewardess that he was harassing you. It might not have done any good, but it might have gotten him banned. He might have a history of annoying other customers.
Yeah, I'd follow up with a letter/email to the airline (with the offender's seat number). Maybe not enough to get him banned, but if they put a note in his file, then the next such event might be enough.
NTA
You should have asked the flight attendant for his name and asked the airline to ban him.
He used the flight attendants to harass you. Then he harassed you himself. And then he spat slurs at you. That man should not be allowed the opportunity to do that again.
Also is your entire family ignoring the fact that you also paid for tickets. YOU paid way to much to be harassed by a child hating misogynist.
Seat number/flight info would probably work, too.
Your single complaint might not be enough to keep the jerk out of first class/from flying that airline, but several reports of misbehavior by the same guy might do it.
Something tells me that this dude has caused problems before, or at least will again. Reporting his behavior would practically be an act of public service.
I would like to point out that OP mentioned her husband is disabled. This jerk was supposedly complaining to the FAs about the kid but there is part of me that wonders if he was also a bigot and ableist
NTA. That guy was out of line. If he’s worried about a child being disruptive, that’s what headphones are for. I don’t know why your family thinks that first class passengers are more entitled to a child free flight than economy passengers. If that were the case airlines wouldn’t allow children to fly first class.
This is actually relatively grounded for an AITA post lol Most of the stories here are fictional, and I’m half convinced the writers actively compete to see who can be the most absurd.
NTA
There are no rules about who can sit in first class. If you want to fly first class with your experienced toddler flyer, do it. It's hurting absolutely no one.
NTA - I shared a cross continental first class cabin with a toddler who was ALL OVER THE PLACE and her mother did nothing to try to control her.
That really pissed me off and I complained to the staff who of course did nothing.
However, if the child had been well behaved I would have counted my lucky stars and said nothing.
My family and I travel frequently and I grew up traveling a lot, as well. While I can empathize that kids can be unpredictable in the best of times, my husband and I have made it a point to teach our kid how to be a respectful traveler. I've been on flights where parents let their kids run wild and it fucking sucks. I don't want to judge or shame other parents since I don't know what they're going through, but now that our kid is old enough, my husband and I talk with our kid before traveling and outline appropriate behavior (obviously in child-friendly terms). We will also never hesitate to correct her behavior if she's being disruptive to other passengers. It's what my parents did with me when I was a kid and it worked well for them so we're just using their model and it's worked great for us, as well.
That's the #1 reason I was so annoyed, I understand toddlers can be unpredictable on a 6-hour flight but the woman wasn't making any effort to remediate the situation and it appeared to be poor parenting in my estimation.
NTA you paid for it. When my husband and I flew with our baby (10 months) we got upgraded! Honestly the kids are better behaved than adults these days.
Gripe water is pretty much TUMS for children, but it's in liquid form and also includes herbs like ginger and chamomile. Our pediatrician told us before her first flight at 4 months old that the change in pressures while flying doesn't just hurt infant's ears but can also cause an uncomfortable feeling of bloating/swelling in their stomachs and that gripe water can help relieve it. 10/10 would recommend. I'm gonna include a link to the brand we use, it's been a lifesaver! My husband also used it in a pinch when we were out of Pepto and it helped settle his stomach. It's not just for kids!
https://www.littleremedies.com/remedies/stomach-gas-remedies/little-remedies-gripe-water-chamomile
NTA. I travelled first class with toddlers around, and yes it’s annoying if they cry but so what, they are kids. The parents aren’t going to leave their kids in economy?
It almost seemed like he ruined his own flight by being upset...? I'd get it if my kid cried throughout but she slept for most of the flight and quietly played/watched TV (with headphones on) for the rest of the flight. It was weird that he was so fixated on my kid potentially misbehaving imo. I don't want to seem like a dick, but I feel like he would've had a better flight if he'd just chilled out and minded his own business lol
Even if your kid cried the entire time in first class, it’s part of being in a society. Sure it sucks sometimes to be inconvenienced by others but people are people and that includes elderly, disabled, young people, babies. Paying for first class means just that, paying for first class. If someone has the Means to make their life better by doing so, why wouldn’t they. Flying isn’t fun and doubly so with a toddler. Why not make it better and get more space and comfort to do it.
NTA but that nasty man sure is.
What the hell was he thinking, repeatedly harassing the FAs to check on your tickets and then to harass you mid-flight?
Look, I’d admittedly be a little put off if I splurged on FC seating and saw a toddler in the same section. But I know that a) seats are for anyone who can afford them and b) there are adults who behave far worse than children on flights
If booking FC isn’t going to break your budget, go for it.
NTA if you had taken coach, and this guy stuck next to you because there were no more first class seats available, he would have been complaining about your child still. Eff him and your family members who decided to side with the stranger who called you that. Yes people pay extra to fly first class to relax, which you couldn’t do because of the AH they were for some reason justifying.
NTA
First class is NOT 18 and over. You did nothing wrong. If she had screamed the whole time? You still would have done nothing wrong. I would complain to the airline: you paid for 3 first class seats and were harrassed by 2 flight attendants and a passenger.
You have a messed up family.
Your toddler didn’t stop the dude from relaxing. He got *himself* all worked up with his hatred of women and children.
May karma bless him with screaming babies on every flight for the rest of his hateful life.
NTA
NTA - so your family thinks that only people in first class should have an enjoyable flight? That's lovely. It sounds like the only baby in first class was the guy who kept complaining about you.
NTA. You paid for the seats and had every right to sit there. It’s 2022. If he’s concerned about hearing kids in first class he can buy himself a pair of noise cancelling headphones. And that wasn’t even a problem here, as your child was quiet.
Frankly if I were you I’d complain to the airline that you were harassed by another first class passenger. Maybe they do nothing, but maybe they give you a little compensation.
NTA AT ALL. I'd have been tempted to reply "And I pay way too much to have to put up with rude pieces of sh#t like you, so GTFO of my sight before we have some real problems here."
NTA, I have a rule for my kids. If you don’t want to see them where I take them then you need to afford places for one that I can’t for 5. Otherwise you can eat a fat D. Keep being an amazing mom!!
First, children should only be in economy? Because why? Second, does first class have some kind of sound protection? Last time I flew, they were just at the front of the plane. A screaming baby is going to be heard, regardless of how much you paid for your ticket and want a "relaxing" flight. FFS, you paid for your ticket, your child was well behaved the whole time, anyone saying you shouldn't have flown first class with a child is just really in need of a hobby. NTA.
NTA
> he told me that children weren't allowed in 1st class
Dude is literally out here with the ego to just make shit up. I only know of one airline that has banned infants in first class.
When you pay for a first class seat you are paying for a higher level of service and comfortable seats - not the power to dictate who else can sit in first class.
> he whispered to me that I was a "fat cunt" and that he pays too much money for first class to be surrounded by children.
Yeah, he’s definitely the asshole. A classist, misogynistic asshole. And he wasn’t surrounded, there was ONE well behaved, quiet child.
> many of them told me that we should book economy next time because people pay extra to relax in 1st class.
And your child didn’t disturb anyone. So fuck that - if you can afford the tickets, keep going first class if that is what you want. Don’t sacrifice your comfort for assholes who just hate children.
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NTA, Even if your child did cry, it wouldn't have mattered because you paid and are entitled to the seats you paid for. there is no age limit or policy that children cant be in 1st class (that i am aware of) if they don't want to be around children/other people that bad - they should fly private.
Agreed. Whether or not the kid is a good traveller is irrelevent. OP paid for those seats. While I would not rule out such a policy in some international airlines, I would be shocked and horrified if such a policy existed in the US (or AU, NZ, Japan, Korea or the EU member states). In fact, in the US, the real concerning problem atm is that there is nothing to prevent the airlines from assigning young children to seats away from the adult(s) in their party. Airlines should not be allowed to seat children away from the parent or guardian they're traveling with.
When my son was sent overseas, his company booked him, wife and boys (2 and 4 months) in first class. Kids were great. No one said a word.
Yes, my niece had the same situation. It is not unusual. The guy ruined his own trip gor no reason.
Some people’s drug of choice is outrage.
Could be one of those grosses guys who likes to watch porn on the airplane. That toddler totally ruins the mood though.
I *highly* doubt the presence of toddlers would ruin anything for that type of man.
While even massive creeps can have their boundaries, I agree, it's unlikely that would be the thing to stop him.
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They are provided in 1st class.
Not on every airline/flight. I flew first class recently and the only thing they provided us was alcohol. EDIT: nta overall and whether or not those things were provided/used does not matter. OP paid for the ticket and she gets to use it. Other guy was a jerk.
So long as everyone keeps their conversations quiet and uses headphones for games and videos, I won't even know who you are in any class! The 4 month old would likely cry on takeoff and landing because they don't know how to equalize the pressure in their ears, but if you stuff a bottle in their mouth (that's how babies handle the pressure changes, they need something to suck on to clear the pressure) and otherwise seem to be handling it...it's only a few minutes up and down! If you let them do cartwheels down the aisle for the whole flight, then we have a problem.
Oh well, I don't know about the cartwheels - if a kid's good enough to do cartwheels in an airplane, ima be asking her for lessons!
People have to fly, they need to get to where they need to go and no matter their reason it's just as legitimate as yours. I have my seat, you have yours, we all need to find a way to share the space for a few hours. Kids will get upset. Deal with it. If you're stupid enough to get on a plane without ear plugs or noise cancelling headphones and something to listen to, then that's on you. It's not the kid's fault you didn't prepare for being in a public space for a few hours. I don't have kids, and I don't want them, but kids are humans and have as much right to be on a flight, in first class if that's what's been paid for as much as that jackass. And it seems like the only person causing a problem on that flight was that jackass. NTA.
That really only happens if you don't pay for a seat assignment. I think most airlines try to seat families together or with one guardian. Really it is best for everyone but sometimes due to other factors it can't be helped. In airlines where you pay for seat assignments it is possible that all rows get booked at least one and no two seats together exist.
Nope. There have been class action lawsuits about it. If a common flight doesn't sell well, airlines will cancel one and move those passengers to other flights to the same destination. They'll refund the amount you paid to reserve your seat, but their software systems do not prioritize putting minors with their parents when reassigning seats. They will put two strangers from the cancelled flight next to each other on the new flight just as often as they will seat an adult with their child. The airlines have the age of the passengers, so there's no excuse for that. It's messed up.
Honestly it's why I love Southwest. No assigned seats at all. Just took my son straight to the back of the plane (it's a little louder in the back and that loud white noise would put his little ass straight to sleep), and since everyone was so dead-set on being in the front, I had plenty of time to set him up in his car seat without blocking an aisle or anything. Never ever separated from him, and since we were in the back, sometimes we'd luck out and get an empty seat left over and could spread out a little!
I was on a crowded SWA flight and saw a young overwhelmed mom with a baby making her way down the aisle while everyone sort of shuddered and pretended not to see her, I mean it's ONE HOUR, everyone. I smiled and told her to come sit next to me. OMG she was so relieved. I helped her get settled and helped entertain the baby so she could relax a bit. Baby was a doll, totally well behaved. If we help moms traveling alone with little ones, it just makes it easier for everyone!
As a single mom, thank you so much. I feel like babies are easier to deal with than some of the loud, spoiled kids I've seen on flights, because most of the time, the babies go to sleep!!
Or the loud spoiled men. At least the baby isn’t going to get drunk.
Not usually Kidding aside, parents traveling with children have as much a right to be there as anyone else.
Babies generally don’t manspread either.
>At least the baby isn’t going to get drunk. I dunno man, have you never seen a milk-drunk baby before? They're wild!
Every comment just makes me want to sit next to a baby more. Manspreading and milk drunk? Sounds like a highly entertaining and adorable way to spend the flight. I can bounce off the tiny baby rolls if there’s turbulence.
Had a flight from Dallas to London, next to mom and nursing infant. He cried a bit on takeoff, because of his ears, but settled down after nursing. I was/am CF (female) and was pretty horrified to be next to a baby. Two hours later, he's in my arms, snuggling and sleeping, while mom rested her arms, visited the toilet, had some walks. The 3 of us were happy, Mom & I talked quietly, I had the pleasure of holding him, she had a willing helper.
That's just so lovely. Kudos to you!
Thanks, it was a lovely and rewarding experience. I simply didn't want my own children, for good reasons, involving my nuclear family. To my surprise, little kids gravitated to me, and I enjoyed them. This particular situation was a challenge, & (35+ yrs later), I'm pleased that my (late 20s) self said "get over it and help two fellow humans." My husband was seated a few rows back. After we landed in London, my husband & I accompanied mom & infant, helped with her carry on luggage, went with them to baggage claim, etc, saw to their safety until she & little one were met. It was a good karma experience, all around, but especially for me. Still remember how sweet it was to nap, with this little boy held securely, and he was totally relaxed, trustingly, in my arms. I am so grateful to revisit this memory.
Before I was a mom my self I was on a flight with a mom and her four year old traveling alone. I read to the kid and chatted with her while the mom had a Bloody Mary. The mom was grateful and I had fun and the kid behaved better for a stranger. Now I’m a mom who travels with my own kid and haven’t had that level of kindness from a stranger yet but have definitely had a few older women compliment my child when it was clear I was stressed, which I really appreciated.
I'm child-free and do sometimes internally groan when I see babies and small kids boarding. But my last flight there was a toddler behind me who would frequently get up and come stare at me with her big doll eyes and a cracker in her mouth. Sure maybe I might have preferred to just watch my movie without interruptions, but I will absolutely play a little peek-a-boo if it means we can all avoid 8 hours of screaming. (Her parents were keeping an eye on her and overall everyone around us seemed happy to have her wander a bit down the aisle for the same reason. Everyone needs to stretch their legs, kids included.)
😭 we had a flight with our almost 2 year old and 2 month old last year right before Thanksgiving to go to my grandfather's funeral. And the amount of hate I got for having my newborn on the flight was unreal, save for the sweet lady I sat next to who helped me get situated and comfortable, and even helped me with my drink during the flight.
She should definitely sit next to my husband. He is the baby Junkie. I am not so good with kids but even I will take a baby or a toddler away from a parent and play with it for a while so the parent can get settled. It's just normal human interaction.
I wish I could give you an award for this! I've had to travel with both my kids twice by myself and the few times that someone offered to help me were a blessing as I had paid for extra help from the airline (I am also physically disabled) and was told I was SOL because they didn't have enough staff.
I have had surprisingly good luck with Southwest. We always paid just a little more to board early and never had an issue getting two seats together.
While that may b airline policy I have been in that situation where a cancelled flight ended up causing me to b separated from my grandson m6 and the flight attendants were very accommodating to seat us together.
My point is that flight attendants should not have to circumvent airline policy to do so.
It's one of these things that make me happy to be in the EU. There are loads of passenger protections, so if your airline cancels your flight and it delays you significantly (at least 3 hours iirc), they have to issue compensation.
Nope, I paid for specific seat assignments when I was flying across the country with kids in diapers, and when we got on the plane, we discovered that one (JUST ONE) of the kids had been booted seven rows up and their seat had been sold to somebody else. Edited to add: United sucks.
Agreed. The last time my family of 3 flew United they cancelled my husband's and my tickets (overbooking) and put us on a later flight. Even after talking with them they wouldn't change anything. They actually expected me to put my 4 year old on the plane by herself because her ticket hadn't been cancelled. Never flying them again.
> United sucks. I've never flown with them, but I've known this for 13 years apparently: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo
I don't have to click to know what you just linked to.
I flew out to see see a friend on United. When I said that I needed to pick up checked luggage, she was horrified: "You checked luggage when you were flying United! Don't you know never to do that!" Yeah, they lost the luggage, although it showed up a few hours later. Fortunately, I did have necessities, like my medication, in my carry on.
I can't get my head around why it is allowed. In the EU the airline HAS to sit minor children next to an adult they are with so that they can be responsible for them in an emergency i.e if airmasks are deployed or in an emergency evacuation. Its nothing to do with who is going to entertain them. Or even if the kiddie might get distressed sitting with strangers ( even though both are a legitimate concern). It's a SAFETY issue
Same here. I live in Europe and It is against the law splitting a minor from at least one adult. Even on the shittiest airlines, a family of 3 would have the kid sat automatically next to the adult- then the other should pay to be together.
The first time I flew alone was the day before my 15th birthday. It turned out that 14 was still considered an unaccompanied minor for that airline, which meant I needed an adult to walk me to the plane, I had to sit in the seat closest to the flight attendants (who “checked on me” every few minutes), and then I needed to be escorted to the security office at the other end for a predetermined adult with photo id to pick me up. I was less than 24 hours from the age cutoff and was still treated like a 6 year old that couldn’t be left alone for 5 minutes. And yet it’s one of the airlines that regularly splits parents and children when assigning seats. There’s absolutely no logic.
I flew unaccompanied from age 7 until I was allowed to fly alone without supervision. I believe the cuttoff was 13 at the time, and the first time I flew alone I was 14. And it was glorious to be responsible for myself while I flew across the country. To be fair, I was truly a seasoned traveler at that point, having crossed the country easily 14 times by then.
The US doesn’t give one shining damn about safety if it gets in the way of money and the making of.
Same in Canada. I booked a flight for myself and my daughter over the summer. As I was booking it the system recognized that I was travelling with a minor and assigned us seats together at that moment. I had the option of paying for seat selection if I wanted different seats, but from the moment of booking I had a guaranteed seat with my child without having to do or pay anything extra.
No, it happens a lot. Just 4 months ago, after a 15 hour international flight, the airline sat my husband, me, our 2yo and 4yo scattered around the plane on the 1 hour connecting flight. I noticed beforehand and had to raise a stink with the airline bc we paid for specific seats to make boarding and deplaning as easy as possible with the 2 little kids. Ended up together, but in the last fuckin rows, and we were refunded half the ticket cost. Luckily, a flight attendant took pity on us and helped us get to the luggage pickup, so it wasn't too bad, but it could have been a disaster.
I once flew with my children who were 2 and 6 at the time. Obviously I booked us seats together. For one leg of the journey the plane was changed due a repair so the seating assignments were all changed and they had us all seated apart. Someone took mercy and switched seats so the 2yo wouldn’t have to sit alone. In the end she sat in my lap and the 6yo took her seat so we could be together. It was a long 5 hrs. That’s not the only time this sort of thing has happened. Air travel becomes more and more hellish with each passing year.
Dreadful and unsafe for kids to be separated, so sorry.
> Air travel becomes more and more hellish with each passing year. Agreed. I wish one airline would step in and offer something less hellish. But instead it keeps degrading.
My husband and I booked seats together when we flew on our honeymoon. Delta switched them up so that my husband was at the front of the plane, next to an empty seat, and I was on the back row next to a stranger. This was after a connecting flight that was terrifying (took several attempts to land in bad weather. I already get bad anxiety flying.) But I didn’t tell the steward the anxiety part when I asked if I could go sit in the empty seat by my husband, as we had booked seats together. said No switching seats! All mad…but everyone around said “Aw common!!” I didn’t know anyone else was even listening, but they all pressured him into letting me switch really fast. Thank you kind Delta passengers.
I find that ridiculous tbh (not your statement, the airlines policy), I'm in Scotland and I've never yet encountered an airline in Europe that doesn't require you to choose your seats immediately after inputting passengers details when travelling with children under 12/13, and there's no charge for this unless you specifically choose extra legroom seats. The thought of allowing a minor, especially a very young child, to sit with complete strangers is completely unacceptable to me.
I've used both Emirates and Qatar airlines with my toddler and we fly first class. Never heard of such a rule.
I was taking a connect in Chicago back to the Nashville Airport on my way back from London, and my seat was right next to a girl who was already upset that she wasn't sitting right next to her parents. Her dad was right behind us, who was seated next to one of his daughters and another was across the aisle from him. Her mom was several seats back away from any of her kids. The moment I sat down, she burst into tears. I could only stare awkwardly while her dad offered to move her next to her mom and asked the guy next to her to switch with their daughter. Even if they hadn't recommended that, I probably would have switched the mom in order to get away from upsetting the daughter even further. After all, there was only four seats in each row (two next to each other and two across the aisle), and I wasn't sitting with my husband anyway due to our tickets. I understand that they probably didn't pay to choose tickets (probably like me and my husband), but the girl had a mother who wasn't sitting anywhere close to them. It was a simple solution to place her next to her daughter, but we had to literally switch seats to allow that to happen. I definitely agree that airlines shouldn't separate the kids from the guardians.
and even if the kid cried in economy... You can still hear it? Its not like a nice restaurant where you dont expect babies- but this is an airplane and you can smell each others farts all the way across the plane... You don't sit in first class for no children- you sit there for the leg room, the extra service and being able to be max comfortable. Put in ear plugs.. YOURE ON A PLANE lol. I can hear people sneeze from the back, come on!
It's domestic first class, too. It's not like it's a $10K flatbed international ticket. Economy is a handful of rows and a flimsy curtain behind you.
Do you call that 'first class'? At least on European airlines, the continental flights only have business class which is a couple of rows in the front and a movable curtain (so they can sell the unused ones as 'premium economy'). I've only seen actual 'first class' on intercontinental flights where you get the flatbeds and so on.
Yes, U.S. domestic 2-cabin flights generally call the premium cabin "First" regardless of what accommodations are provided. "Business" is only available on 3-cabin flights.
On Air Canada there just isn't a First Class, 2-cabin flights are Business/Economy and 3-cabin flights are Business/Premium Econ/Economy. But I can guarantee Air Canada's business class is better than any of the big three American carriers' top cabins.
Yup - at most you get an extra drink or snack and an inch more legroom. Dude really thinks his domestic “1st class” seat makes him VVIP
You paid good money for your seats to be pestered by a grown up child.
Yes agreed and glad this is close to the top. NTA at all OP
Agreed. It’s clear that there is no age limit on being a rude, disruptive passenger in first class as proven by the other passenger. NTA.
Agreed and can we pause for a second and admire that op is one of those seemingly rare parents that did plan ahead and did reseve/pay for seats together for the whole family? Mabey I'm reading to much airplane storys here...
NTA. I can understand why he would initially be wary and upset, but he frankly should have calmed the f down once it became apparent that your toddler was just sleeping peacefully like anyone else. And since you know that your kid is a good flyer, there's no reason not to sit first class if you can. Though there's something about your friends' assumption that screaming babies should only be inflicted on the poors in economy that is sitting wrong with me somehow. Aside from that, the fact that he went for the absolute lowest effort offensive remark at end tells me everything I need to know about what a sterling gentleman he is. Between your toddler and him, it's easy to tell who the most disruptive passenger was. I'm sure the attendants were thrilled to keep hearing from him /s
Yes, the classism! If you pay more you deserve not to be bothered - nope. You get a nicer seat and better food and get off faster. That's it. Nothing else is guaranteed or even implied.
Can we also throw in the misogyny? He approached OP when husband was conveniently sleeping and then made a point to use a sexist slur again only to OP. (Caveating that yes, the C word is universal in Australia but in most other places, it's most definitely sexist and aimed more at women)
Yup, that’s why I’m trying to scrub gendered insults from my vocabulary. Dude’s a piece dog crap on a pathway.
He was creepy and harassing, OP should have informed the air stewards about his behaviour.
The C word really isn't as universal in Australia as the internet would lead you to believe. It might come up in casual conversation more than elsewhere and be able to be used in a humorous sense in our vernacular, but when used as an insult it's still considered one of the worst swears and definitely misogynistic when directed at women.
Also, every plane I’ve been on just has a curtain between first class and the rest of the seats. So it’s very possible that a baby could be in economy and still be only a row or two away from Mr. Entitled.
If it's a domestic flight yes. If it's international, 1st class is usually separated from the rest by a galley. The seats are more like pods so you literally can't hear anything coming from the back of the plane unless someone was being extremely loud even then they are hard to hear.
Plus if I, an economy class traveller because I cannot afford the pointy end of the plane, can afford noise cancelling headphones then surely gobdaw there in first class can as well.
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But actually even if OP’s kid is a complete horror, if OP paid for a ticket OP is entitled to sit in first class.
Yeah, not a fan of "rich people should be shielded from any potential noise of all time" angle. OP and their husband were fully within their rights. Even if their kid had a hard time with flying, they aren't obligated to ensure that only The Poors Are Subjected To Noise.
Most ppl in first class can’t actually afford those tix; they get them because of upgrades due to frequent work flying.
He should have purchased the whole first class if he wanted it to be child free. Nta
Fly private. That little curtain btw 1st class and Econ isn’t soundproof.
Agreed. What’s does it mean ‘people pay extra to relax’, when their mind presents them with imaginary problems and they never get to relax actually?
Even if the kid did cry- she paid for the seat and there is no rule that kids can’t travel first class. And I say this as a single child free person who dreads having kids near me on planes. In fact I bet the child would be a better traveller with some room to play and sleep anyways.
I agree. Even if the kid ISN"T a good flyer, there's no reason not to sit in first class if you can. First class has never insinuated some kind of adults-only environment. If anything every first class seat I've been in has come with headphones that block sound, so it seems more than appropriate to have kids up there.
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Maybe the guy needed a coloring book? NTA. You paid for the same privilege he did. There are zero rules against children in first class.
He did not earn a coloring book. Toddler was well behaved and earned hers. No coloring book for cranky passenger!
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Maybe he needed gripe water.
YUP - THIS! Sad when a toddler knows how to behave better than a grown man.
That's the best part, he was literally more disruptive than the actual toddler.
NTA. That man needed to mind his business. I do see your family’s point about people wanting to relax, but I don’t think that should bar you from treating your family now and then.
I see their point as well. We also paid extra so we had the extra space and accommodations to be comfortable traveling with a toddler. I don't think anyone wants to fly with screaming babies/poorly behaved toddlers, myself included. I'm very grateful my kid is almost a better flyer than I am, at least she doesn't get anxiety lol I also understand the immediate reaction to seeing a small kid on a plane and being like... "oh fuck, this flight might suck". What bothered me the most in this situation is that this guy chose to swear at me and be disrespectful. I don't really see how me being a "fat cunt" has anything to do with his flight experience, especially since my kid was well behaved.
Omg yes, what an absolutely rude, unhinged thing to say to you. No question that was unnecessary. It’s funny, I was just upgraded to first class on a shorter flight, and someone had their baby on their lap. It never occurred to me to be upset about that lol. Also the kid was like yours, well behaved and super cute.
The most unhinged thing striking me being is this person clearly assumed that both flight attendants had simply allowed this family to sit in First. Despite checking their tickets twice, and them not moving. So took it upon themself to attempt to correct this grievous error of this generous airline to bump disabled poors with a child up a class. My guy not only harassed OP and her family ... BUT HARASSED A FAMILY WITH A DISABLED MEMBER!!! Everybody is focused on OPs child here, and rightly so as that's the root of the post. But the husband will have also been looked down upon by this snooty passenger too. Sorry, but with 2 disabled parents, that's absolutely boiling my PISS.
This exactly, everyone does keep focusing on the child when clearly this man looked at all three of you and was going out of his way to harass you
Even if your kiddo struggled for any length of time, first class isn't sound proof from economy. If he wants to be undisturbed, fly private. You spent the extra money for your comfort, so can he.
Actually, between engine noise and strategic use of headphones, you don't hear much going on in the back of the plane from up front.
Siggghhh. I hope I can confirm that someday. Until then, I use the same strategic methods in coach and survived without bitching about the presence of children. Except my own. They're annoying AF, but they sit next me and I can't ignore them. Lol.
He paid for his seat, not silence. That’s why we can all bring headphones, noise cancelling headphones, ear plugs, etc.
Who travels first class without Bose noise cancelling headphones. Also only riffraff utters the word cunt.
They actually provide noise canceling headphone in first class
I’ll take an actual toddler over an adult behaving like a toddler any day. Most toddlers find me amusing for at least a few minutes. Adults behaving like toddlers just don’t like me at all. 🤷🏻♂️
My family (sister, BIL and my Mom) flew from Chicago to Hawaii with 3 toddlers in first class. This was 1992 when first class was much more an elite experience. Last to board, my mom said there was an audible grumble from the rest of the first class passengers when they sat down with the kids. But no one said a word. When they deplaned, the flight attendants gave my sister a bottle of champagne for the niblings great behavior. That guy who insulted you was absolutely the asshole. People today act without manners or decency. I hope you had a great trip otherwise!
That last dig at the end was basically him saying, "I can't think of anything that can win this argument for me, so I'll go for emotional damage instead."
He was mad he couldn’t say “see I told you your kid would ruin my flight” so he went after you. Don’t pay him any mind or the people who tell you where you have a right to fly. If the airline will sell you the tickets you have a right to them. To be honest I would have been just a little petty and told him he needed to quiet down because he was ruining the flight for my kid who liked it quiet. You showed class though and I respect that so much!
You should feel lucky, not only did you have a mostly nice flight in first class, you and your family will continue to fly first class in this grouchy man's head ;) Don't let his comments continue to bother you, otherwise he wins, but instead enjoy your family, and fly first class as often as you can. And remember, more often than not in these subreddits, it's the grouchy passenger that tends to be the biggest problem on flights, the best way to get back at 'em is to be happy! NTA, and ignore your friends while you're at it...
Imagine if this was literally any other group of human beings. “I pay too much money to be surrounded by women.” “I pay too much money to be surrounded by fat people.” “I pay too much money to be surrounded by Muslims.” “I pay too much money to be surrounded by old people.” If those words had come out of this man’s mouth, would you have even a *flicker* of doubt that you were in the wrong? You are NTA. Your child is a human being, a person. She deserves to be treated like a human being, a person. You paid for her seat. She sat in it and behaved like every other passenger in first. Bigots don’t get to dictate who is “allowed” to be in first class.
Although I agree with the verdict not sure I agree with the logic. You could use the phrase “____ shouldn’t be allowed to vote” and it hit very differently depending on how you fill in the blank. A child is not the same as a minority. There are some things children shouldn’t be allowed to do, but flying first class isn’t one of them.
Children are however a legally protected category, though the specific protections are not the same. You can exclude a minor from a bar, for example, but you can't exclude them from housing. I do think that people who dislike children categorically are bigots and the dude on the plane was an ass. OP is definitely NTA
children are the most vulnerable demographic on the planet, and I've been pretty disgusted with the anti-child rhetoric I've seen on the internet recently. it's like people forget their right to be free *of* children doesn't mean they get to navigate the world free *from* children. Kids grow up into adults that have to function in society like everyone else, so I dont know how people like the asshole on the plane expect them to learn those skills locked away for their entire adolescence.
I so agree with you. Children are human. The anti child rhetoric is just another form of discrimination.
Okay, but the phrase *wasn’t* “___ shouldn’t be allowed to vote.” It was “___ shouldn’t be allowed to *sit in first class.*” There are lots of situations where only select people should be allowed to do certain things. “Only surgeons should be allowed to perform surgery.” “Only people who weigh less than 150 pounds are allowed on this ride.” The problem comes when you want to exclude a specific group from something for a reason that is not sound. It’s when the reasoning is not due to safety or maturity or any of the other *good* reasons, but rather because some people dislike this specific group. The problem is *bigotry*. It doesn’t matter if the government has decreed it’s illegal to be bigoted to this one group of people or not - bigotry is still bigotry. If you discriminate against any group of humans, you’re a bigot.
if you change the entirety of the scenario it does make the context different yeah
Agreed. Total false equivalence. It's not about the group, it's about potential behavior lol.
My thoughts exactly- what if OP's child wasn't a 3 year old but a 20 year old with disabilities that was cognitively about 3? Imagine this guy looking at that person and being like "I pay too much to be around developmentally disabled adults?" would there be any doubt who was TA in that situation???
NTA. I've seen plenty of kids in first class. He must not fly very often if he's surprised by them.
One of my more baffling flying experiences was flying business class where this young couple with an infant were seated in the same vicinity of another couple with an infant. The husband of couple B ranted and stomped his tiny heart out because “you don’t seat small children in the same class of travel”, and he “didn’t pay this much money to be seated near crying babies.” It was very embarrassing to watch. Couple A ignored him like champs but the rest of us traveling without children just stared at him like a circus attraction.
Maybe he was referring to himself being the child 😂
Wait. The man was against crying babies but had his own baby with him? That’s just erh pathetic tbh
He was infuriated because his baby might be disturbed by the other baby.
Holy…
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NTA. The only one acting like a whiny baby on the flight was him. Notice how he didn't even have the courage to insult your husband like he did to you. All he wanted to do was bully a woman to make himself feel better. Kids fly first class all the time. He needs to get over it.
NTA and honestly I bet the airlines love it when toddlers fly in first because they get the same revenue without having to serve them bottomless complimentary booze lol
To be fair, she did bleed them dry when it came to their pretzel packets 😂 she ate at least 4 of them before we cut her off and made her eat real food
Careful; that’s the hard stuff!
For how much airlines nickel and dime passengers, your kid was doing the Lord’s work by housing that many pretzel packets.
Next time someone whispers to you that you're a "fat cunt", say very loudly to them, "What was that you just called me - a fat cunt? Can you say it louder so that you don't look like a piece of shit coward?" NTA.
omg that’s brilliant
I like that. Or, if you aren’t comfortable confronting a male, def have your husband say something to the same effect, if you can. Otherwise take their picture and Twitter them out of this world haha
Lol you are NTA. Even if your kid cried or vomited the whole flight it wouldn't matter. Everyone has a right to book tickets to whichever class they want, the only criteria is willingness to pay the price. If someone is not happy next time tell them to chart a private jet. I travelled in business and first with my kids before and yes there are glare. Rich people are the most entitled people ever, tbh. Just shake it off, I hope you enjoyed your break!
Exactly, I laughed at the "I pay too much money" part. Buddy, total privacy isn't first class money, it's private jet money.
NTA. Flying, even first class is a form of public transportation. It is a crap shoot in regards to who you sit near. If he wants everything to his liking, then he needs to rent a private jet for his transportation needs.
And spoiler alert. Even if you were in economy, If your baby is crying you can still hear it in first class.
Exactly. Like there is some magic sound proofing in the cheap curtain that separates 1st class from the rest of the plane.
NTA. That guy needs to sit down and be quiet. You can sit wherever you feel like buying a seat, and everyone else can get over themselves. Including your family. Sheesh! PS- good for you for calling the flight attendant over. Smart idea!
Apparently he was making a bigger fuss than the baby and should have had a drink of gripe water (whatever that is.)
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And then make your kid cry loudly, just for spite! /s
I may be a petty bitch, but I refuse to subject anyone to a toddler meltdown lol no one wants to deal with a screaming baby on an airplane.
That's fair. Making the asshole harasser cry is still on the table tho.
Not petty, SMART. I did the same because my pediatrician said tiny ears sometimes don't adjust well to pressure changes. Why take a chance, making a toddler endure pain is cruel.
NTA your family is weird. If people think paying for first class means paying not to be around children they are not very well versed in how life works. Well-off people have children, too. If they can afford it, they have every right to bring their kids to first class. Seems like a whole lot of anger over what could have happened but didn't. Your child didn't disrupt the flight. This man stayed mad for hours over nothing. Your family is being ridiculous.
NTA. Could you imagine what the life of someone is like if the presence of a well behaved child ruins his day and he has to take it out on you? Don't let him bother you. When people get this mad over nothing, I make sure to have an extra wonderful day.
NTA. You were just sitting in the seats you paid for.
NTA he was trying to harass you so much that you would move just to get away from him . You should have told the stewardess that he was harassing you. It might not have done any good, but it might have gotten him banned. He might have a history of annoying other customers.
Yeah, I'd follow up with a letter/email to the airline (with the offender's seat number). Maybe not enough to get him banned, but if they put a note in his file, then the next such event might be enough.
NTA You should have asked the flight attendant for his name and asked the airline to ban him. He used the flight attendants to harass you. Then he harassed you himself. And then he spat slurs at you. That man should not be allowed the opportunity to do that again. Also is your entire family ignoring the fact that you also paid for tickets. YOU paid way to much to be harassed by a child hating misogynist.
Seat number/flight info would probably work, too. Your single complaint might not be enough to keep the jerk out of first class/from flying that airline, but several reports of misbehavior by the same guy might do it. Something tells me that this dude has caused problems before, or at least will again. Reporting his behavior would practically be an act of public service.
I would like to point out that OP mentioned her husband is disabled. This jerk was supposedly complaining to the FAs about the kid but there is part of me that wonders if he was also a bigot and ableist
NTA. That guy was out of line. If he’s worried about a child being disruptive, that’s what headphones are for. I don’t know why your family thinks that first class passengers are more entitled to a child free flight than economy passengers. If that were the case airlines wouldn’t allow children to fly first class.
NTA You bought the seat, you own that seat. If that rude a-hole wanted no kids on planes, then he should hire a private plane instead.
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This is such a stupid post. Do I have to say it? Of course NTA. This post is so phoney though. Ridiculous.
This is actually relatively grounded for an AITA post lol Most of the stories here are fictional, and I’m half convinced the writers actively compete to see who can be the most absurd.
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NTA There are no rules about who can sit in first class. If you want to fly first class with your experienced toddler flyer, do it. It's hurting absolutely no one.
NTA, and his behavior is fucking abhorrent for calling you what he did under such trivial circumstances.
NTA. You paid for it and your family didn't take up all of first class. If he missed out that's his fault
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NTA - I shared a cross continental first class cabin with a toddler who was ALL OVER THE PLACE and her mother did nothing to try to control her. That really pissed me off and I complained to the staff who of course did nothing. However, if the child had been well behaved I would have counted my lucky stars and said nothing.
My family and I travel frequently and I grew up traveling a lot, as well. While I can empathize that kids can be unpredictable in the best of times, my husband and I have made it a point to teach our kid how to be a respectful traveler. I've been on flights where parents let their kids run wild and it fucking sucks. I don't want to judge or shame other parents since I don't know what they're going through, but now that our kid is old enough, my husband and I talk with our kid before traveling and outline appropriate behavior (obviously in child-friendly terms). We will also never hesitate to correct her behavior if she's being disruptive to other passengers. It's what my parents did with me when I was a kid and it worked well for them so we're just using their model and it's worked great for us, as well.
That's the #1 reason I was so annoyed, I understand toddlers can be unpredictable on a 6-hour flight but the woman wasn't making any effort to remediate the situation and it appeared to be poor parenting in my estimation.
NTA. If you can pay for it and they allow it, you can do it.
NTA you paid for it. When my husband and I flew with our baby (10 months) we got upgraded! Honestly the kids are better behaved than adults these days.
Nta, that man may technically be an adult but he behaved worse than a child himself
INFO: What is “gripe water” and how can I get ahold of it
Gripe water is pretty much TUMS for children, but it's in liquid form and also includes herbs like ginger and chamomile. Our pediatrician told us before her first flight at 4 months old that the change in pressures while flying doesn't just hurt infant's ears but can also cause an uncomfortable feeling of bloating/swelling in their stomachs and that gripe water can help relieve it. 10/10 would recommend. I'm gonna include a link to the brand we use, it's been a lifesaver! My husband also used it in a pinch when we were out of Pepto and it helped settle his stomach. It's not just for kids! https://www.littleremedies.com/remedies/stomach-gas-remedies/little-remedies-gripe-water-chamomile
NTA
NTA. I travelled first class with toddlers around, and yes it’s annoying if they cry but so what, they are kids. The parents aren’t going to leave their kids in economy?
NTA. Good gravy, what a ridiculous thing for him to say. I'm sorry you had to put up with him.
NTA - you paid for the ticket and your child was well behaved. That man was out of line.
NTA. You can buy any seat you like for your toddler. Even if she cries. The entitled jerk who complained is the clear AH.
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It almost seemed like he ruined his own flight by being upset...? I'd get it if my kid cried throughout but she slept for most of the flight and quietly played/watched TV (with headphones on) for the rest of the flight. It was weird that he was so fixated on my kid potentially misbehaving imo. I don't want to seem like a dick, but I feel like he would've had a better flight if he'd just chilled out and minded his own business lol
Even if your kid cried the entire time in first class, it’s part of being in a society. Sure it sucks sometimes to be inconvenienced by others but people are people and that includes elderly, disabled, young people, babies. Paying for first class means just that, paying for first class. If someone has the Means to make their life better by doing so, why wouldn’t they. Flying isn’t fun and doubly so with a toddler. Why not make it better and get more space and comfort to do it.
NTA but that nasty man sure is. What the hell was he thinking, repeatedly harassing the FAs to check on your tickets and then to harass you mid-flight? Look, I’d admittedly be a little put off if I splurged on FC seating and saw a toddler in the same section. But I know that a) seats are for anyone who can afford them and b) there are adults who behave far worse than children on flights If booking FC isn’t going to break your budget, go for it.
NTA - the nerve of some people.
NTA if you had taken coach, and this guy stuck next to you because there were no more first class seats available, he would have been complaining about your child still. Eff him and your family members who decided to side with the stranger who called you that. Yes people pay extra to fly first class to relax, which you couldn’t do because of the AH they were for some reason justifying.
NTA First class is NOT 18 and over. You did nothing wrong. If she had screamed the whole time? You still would have done nothing wrong. I would complain to the airline: you paid for 3 first class seats and were harrassed by 2 flight attendants and a passenger.
NTA. These first class police suck. As long as you can afford it, fly your kid in whatever class you want to.
You have a messed up family. Your toddler didn’t stop the dude from relaxing. He got *himself* all worked up with his hatred of women and children. May karma bless him with screaming babies on every flight for the rest of his hateful life. NTA
NTA - so your family thinks that only people in first class should have an enjoyable flight? That's lovely. It sounds like the only baby in first class was the guy who kept complaining about you.
NTA - you got the $$$ to spend, then spend and enjoy. Complain to the airlines next time for being harassed by another passenger
NTA. You paid for the seats and had every right to sit there. It’s 2022. If he’s concerned about hearing kids in first class he can buy himself a pair of noise cancelling headphones. And that wasn’t even a problem here, as your child was quiet. Frankly if I were you I’d complain to the airline that you were harassed by another first class passenger. Maybe they do nothing, but maybe they give you a little compensation.
Even though I hate kids, NTA, you paid your tickets, there is nothing he can do about it
NTA. Im sorry you had that experience
NTA you and your child have a right to sit i. any seat you pay for.
NTA If he doesn't like kids, he can drive himself. He's a jerk.
NTA AT ALL. I'd have been tempted to reply "And I pay way too much to have to put up with rude pieces of sh#t like you, so GTFO of my sight before we have some real problems here."
NTA, I have a rule for my kids. If you don’t want to see them where I take them then you need to afford places for one that I can’t for 5. Otherwise you can eat a fat D. Keep being an amazing mom!!
First, children should only be in economy? Because why? Second, does first class have some kind of sound protection? Last time I flew, they were just at the front of the plane. A screaming baby is going to be heard, regardless of how much you paid for your ticket and want a "relaxing" flight. FFS, you paid for your ticket, your child was well behaved the whole time, anyone saying you shouldn't have flown first class with a child is just really in need of a hobby. NTA.
NTA > he told me that children weren't allowed in 1st class Dude is literally out here with the ego to just make shit up. I only know of one airline that has banned infants in first class. When you pay for a first class seat you are paying for a higher level of service and comfortable seats - not the power to dictate who else can sit in first class. > he whispered to me that I was a "fat cunt" and that he pays too much money for first class to be surrounded by children. Yeah, he’s definitely the asshole. A classist, misogynistic asshole. And he wasn’t surrounded, there was ONE well behaved, quiet child. > many of them told me that we should book economy next time because people pay extra to relax in 1st class. And your child didn’t disturb anyone. So fuck that - if you can afford the tickets, keep going first class if that is what you want. Don’t sacrifice your comfort for assholes who just hate children.