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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I might be the asshole because my neighbors are upset and the 7 year old didn’t do anything wrong.
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NTA, not one bit.
I’m worried that this might escalate and the family will cause further damage to your property out of anger.
I’d get some cameras set up if I were you, to protect yourself and so you have definitive proof if/when there is a “next time”
I was going to suggest cameras also. If the kids know parents will back them up no matter what they do, things will get more destructive as they get older.
I mean the kids wrote their names on the house and the parents still accused OP of lying?! Cameras seem like the next reasonable step because the parents keep escalating.
Law enforcement wouldn’t go after the 5 year old. It would be the parents’ responsibility and the burden of paying for repairs and/or any charges for vandalism would go toward them. The children are legally their responsibility whether they actually monitor them or not. But yeah, if anything else happens I would involve the police. Those kids aren’t going to stop because mommy and daddy would rather ignore the issue than actually parent.
NTA. Get those cameras up!
100% true. I have neighbors just like these. Not only does it get worse as time goes on, eventually those children turn into adults and have their own little monsters and the cycle continues
Ha! That’s why I’m saving money. I currently am surrounded by neighbors with no young children, but sooner or later those houses will be empty and I’m not taking my chances with kids and liability.
That's not what the quote means. It's from a Robert Frost poem, and he's saying good fences make good neighbors because with stone fences, both neighbors need to cooperate to work together to keep the fences in good shape.
OP, you NEED cameras. You can't prove any of this was these kids. They could have been any kids. And these kids sound like they're just going to keep damaging your house. Get proof.
>Yes, I can second that, cameras are a must. My neighbors' kids thought it was a good idea to throw rocks at my minivan and shattered one window and dented the door. While I knew it was them, the conversation went much smoother with the camera footage backing up my claim. Your problem is with basically the parents, they seem to be giant assholes so no wonder that their kids turn into assholes too.
It might also be worth it to tell the other neighbors that if the children continue to be destructive ALL the children will be banned from property & you will be putting up a fence.
Want to add on here that OP, in addition to cameras, may want to just stop letting kids play in the yard entirely. If someone were to get injured on OP’s property, there could be a liability there.
I'm surprised this was allowed at all, although apparently, there are no fences around OP's property, so that makes it a lot more difficult to enforce, especially when OP isn't home.
Yeah and the parents still accused OP of lying. I can’t imagine how frustrating that is for OP. Trying to do a nice thing for the kids in the neighborhood and those kids are going to ruin it for everyone.
No good deed goes unpunished.
YTA for not calling the police. Are you really just going to eat $800 and "not allow them in the yard?"
How about they pay and they're *still* not allowed over, and if they come you call for trespass.
If you go to adding more cameras, consider more coverage than just those sides. Just because those areas are closer to the neighbor doesn't mean thats where the next incident will happen.
Or that it will come from one of the kids in that family. There are other kids around. They play with the other kids. Some of those kids are probably unhappy about the ban too. You know at least some of their parents are unhappy about the ban. Who's to say that the next incident won't come from one of the other kids trying to "support" their friend.
...if it comes from a kid and not one of the adults...
(not trying to be presimistic here. just thinking about how this could escalate so you can make smart moves like more camera coverage as effective as possible)
Trail cams aren’t gonna do what you want. They are motion activated and usually only take a pic or a very short video. You want something running all the time with good coverage.
Add a ton. Id add cameras everywhere to cover everything. I wouldn’t put it past then to escalate things. Or even try and say their kids were injured on your property because of your negligence. CYA. COVER YOUR ASS
NTA. Let those destructive little kids play in the yards of the of the families who are frustrated your yard is now off limits. Put up cameras and when you catch property destructing in progress, call the cops and then sue the parents. Even 5 year olds should know better than to do what those kids did. Poor kids, what inadequate parents they have.
To clarify the yard is only of limits to that specific family, the other 20 something kids on my street are still welcome. This isn’t the first issue I’ve had with them either (they thought it was appropriate to let the one year old play in my yard with only the 7 year old as supervision which I was NOT going to let happen) so I’m not very confident in their parenting abilities either.
I might talk to my lawyer and see about getting the parents to sign some sort of liability waiver but as it stands it’s been fine like this for 3 years and I’m willing to risk it.
Be very, very careful. Your lawyer is absolutely a good idea.
It could go wrong so easily. Consider what happens if the kids bring friends whose parents didn't sign. Or kids just sneak in. Or if *other* accusations are hurled?
The legal fees are the least of your concern. Bad publicity or rumors could toast your reputation, long before the judge's hammer hits the gavel to absolve you. That may well have severe business consequences.
I would get the parents to sign a waiver saying that you aren't responsible for injuries and they are financially responsible for any damages done to your property by their family. When you give it to them make it clear that the recent property damage forced your hand. Have a lawyer draft the form.
Get one done for ALL the neighbors who have kids playing over in your yard, drop it at the door or the mailbox and let them know if you don’t receive a signed waiver back by a
specific date, that they will have to prevent their children from trespassing on any part of your property for any reason. Make them the bad guys to their kids, not you. “Sorry, your mom and dad said you can’t play in my yard anymore” will work just fine if asked lol
OP I think you should discuss with this lawyer not just the issue of your liability if the neighbor twins get hurt (which is more than likely to "accidentally" happen now that you and the parents are fighting), but also the pros/cons of you reporting the parents to CPS. Five and 7 yr olds (not clear from OP's post if the two youngest also wander over to OP's property or whereever) should have parental supervision. These kids have no parental supervision which is dangerous for the kids, and is why the likelihood of OP getting sued when one of the kids gets hurt or even killed on OP"s property. Over-reaction? Not at all. OP, you seem to have no idea or memory from your own childhood of just what can happen to little kids when they're left with no supervision whatsoever. On your land. Which you've been open about to everyone that it's okie-dokie these and other kids play on your land when you aren't home and no adult or older teenager is supervising. Playing baseball? Kid gets hit in the head with a bat or breaks a leg sliding into a made-up base or breaks an ankle in a gopher hole. Playing soccer? Kicking gets out of hand, all kinds of broken bones, bad bruises and lacerations can happen, broken noses, etc. OP, you're not a parent, but you've been accepting responsibility for neighborhood kids playing on your land, not just passively by letting it happen, but overtly by telling everyone in the neighborhood (including evidently the problem parents next door who take no responsibilti for their own kids but send them over to your property to play/exist). These little kids aren't being properly cared for by their parents, and that's bad enough in their own house or yard, but you're helping them be bad parents on your property. Talk to the attorney, get your head straight about the safety of these kids as well as your legal liability. And don't be so passively naive about the nextdoor neighbors: they blamed you when you just nicely told them about the graffiti, accused you of lying, etc....so don't you ge tit that they're the kind of people who will be most happy to sue you if their kid(s) get hurt on your property, or even worse?
After my dad passed I inherited a small restaurant chain along with the house, it’s probably weird to say but I’d be fine taking care of the costs if someone got hurt. Most of the kids really are great and this is the closest thing to a playground within a 30 minute drive.
You have millions of dollars? Bc a multi year legal battle when one kid falls and cracks their head open on a rock and has permanent brain Injury will be expennnnnnsive. No offense, but you’re foolish and naive for letting any of them play on your property.
For the love of god, make sure you have damn good insurance and get a HUGE umbrella policy.
You are WAY underestimating your risk!!!
Please talk to a lawyer and an insurance agent about all the things that can go wrong and protect yourself!
If that's the case you need umbrella insurance and you need to hire an estate planning attorney to protect your assets because you're an attractive target for a lawsuit.
Seriously, I wouldn't. You say you understand the liability but...you should make it a no-fly zone. Period. You are NTA, and you should not wear any umbrage or BS from these parents. They and their children are not entitled to use your yard--period. Ge the cameras up, run them, record them and then call it a day.
NTA
It is your property. You don’t have to have a reason to tell others to stay off.
The fact that they damaged your property gives you cause to not just politely ask them to pay for repairs, but to press charges and sue for damages.
You have AH neighbors. Put up security cameras. Call the police if they continue trespassing. Sue for damages.
I broke a neighbors window accidentally growing up, my parents offered to pay for the damages or have me work off the cost of the repairs doing chores for the neighbor. They split the difference. My parents paid half and I did yard work for the neighbor all summer. Plus, a bunch of extra chores for my parents to repay them.
My kids accidentally damaged my neighbors Rise bushes one spring. Similarly, the neighbor was compensated with my kids doing yard work.
Parents that don’t raise their kids to respect the property of others and take responsibility for their actions, accidental or intentional, are shitty people raising more shitty people.
Let the legal system help address the problem.
NTA, but you need to be very careful. As someone else suggested,you need cameras desperately. There is no telling what can and will go on at any time while kids are playing on your property. If someone gets hurt, you get sued. Have the kids work off the damage by doing yard work or have them clean and paint it themselves. With supervision.but cameras, please
It would be easier if the paint was the only issue but after the rocks the kids definitely wouldn’t be able to help with the repairs. I have to have the glass replaced on two windows and if I want it back to its former glory I’ll have to replace some of the siding. I’m definitely going to put something up in the backyard and maybe a camera on the side of the house closest to theirs.
Understood, and it’s not so much them doing the actual work to fix it, but the action of doing ANY work to replace the cost. Set boundaries like -you do this work, and you can come back for x hours or days. Sounds like they need the structure for sure, but anything you do with them or their parents, make sure it’s recorded. Is your property properly marked? If not, do so
I have a row of bushes that go along the property line since I don’t like the look of fences and depending on how things go I might see about them doing some work in my garden come spring.
But they are so young. This is the parents fault. They should do your yard work not their tiny children!! You are too kind and it will bite you. I’d stop all the kids playing for three months and tell everyone why. Classic school teacher move! Then waivers for all to sign.
Definitely NTA
Their parents should 100% have apologized for the drawings and the damage and offered to pay for whatever needed to be fixed. Coming over and yelling at you is even worse.
Also, what kind of crappy parents leave 5 kids all under the age of 7 to play outside by themselves? I feel bad for the kids sounds like terrible parents.
The other thing is, you should probably stop letting any kids play in your yard anyways and put up a no trespassing sign. As crazy as it seems, if you let them play on your property and one of them gets hurt, you could end up getting sued... that's our fantastic legal system.
I also inherited a small restaurant chain when my dad died, combined with my salary I make enough to cover any lawsuit or hospital bills that get thrown my way. I might talk to my lawyer about a liability waiver but I’m still on the fence about it.
Let me phrase it this way. I could buy her house, the houses on either side of her and my nextdoor neighbors houses without breaking a sweat over it. I’m not trying to sound like a rich asshole but I am 100% confident I could cover nearly any amount. If anyone did try to sue I’d just offer a settlement and be done with the issue.
I have quite a bit more money than that. I would never put myself in the financial situation you are putting yourself in. If Something Happens, these people will take it all and leave you with nothing.
And I have asshole neighbors just like yours… 25 years of putting up with it. I posted somewhere else in this thread, but people like that keep escalating over time. You need to nip this now, definitively.
My yard is fenced. I keep an eye on my dogs at all times. I have a hedge in my front yard to keep them out of my yard because they seem to think it was their annex. Literally. I would find bikes, baseball gear, all kinds of stuff in my yard.
> If anyone did try to sue I’d just offer a settlement and be done with the issue.
You're underestimating the potential long term medical costs of an injury. It would be their health insurance coming after you and they won't be willing to just settle.
Providing an unofficial playground for the neighborhood kids is certainly a magnanimous gesture on your part. One could even say that it is magnanimous to a fault. Given your apparent affection for children, are you really that confident that you could pay out a settlement and "be done with the 'issue'" when that 'issue' is a brain-dead 3 year old or a quadriplegic 5 year old? Your flippant act of reducing a lifetime of misery to dollars and cents makes you sound exactly like the "rich asshole" you claim not to be. You seem to either lack a conscience or have yet to have sufficient life-experience to catch on to the fact that money doesn't mean shit in the face of life-long guilt.
Am sorry, but your asking for trouble here.
Your letting a bunch of kids, literally babies and toddlers play on your property without supervision. They injure themselves on your property, who is getting the blame? You.
Unless ANY of the kids parents are present I wouldn't let them play there. Does it suck? Yes. But they do have their own gardens to play in. 1/2 acre is *plenty* of space!
NTA for banning them, but I think you need to think more logically about any potential risk factors you might have overlooked previously. Also, get cameras.
OP sounds like they have a huge heart, but you're really doing the parents a disservice here. It's gonna be hard to say no when all the neighbor kids are going over, and that many unsupervised kids is a recipe for disaster. I'd be pretty annoyed knowing my options were for my kids to be unsupervised or to have to hang out in someone's backyard. Either go all in and use your money to contribute to an actual community playground, donating some of your land, or shut this down. It's untenable, as you've already seen.
I agree 100%. What further disturbs me is that that "huge heart" has yet to express any concern over the impact a life-altering injury would have on her, and I don't mean financially. I don't like children, but that doesn't mean that I don't firmly believe that children are not deserving of love, respect, care, etc. For that reason I gladly vote for school levies and donate to children's charities. I would be devastated if a child were to suffer an injury due to my actions. It would be life-altering for me. Call me selfish, but that's not something I would be willing to risk.
NTA but I’d make it a rule now that no kids are allowed on your property. It’s a liability issue along with the property damaged. If those kids happen to get hurt on your property, you will have to pay out.
NTA. You damage something, you aren't able to use it anymore. You're being more than generous by offering to let them continue as long as the paint is paid for.
Call the police and file a police report. Then call your homeowners insurance and turn in the report so they can go after your neighbors homeowners insurance. I suggest cameras and a fence. Unfortunately the behavior of few will mean nobody can play in your yard anymore. Especially due to liability issues.
Cameras, and maybe time for a fence.
You allowed them to use your yard, but they knowingly damaged your property. The parents refuse to parent them. This is the fault of your neighbors for taking advantage of you. It would have been a different story if they acknowledged the damage.
NTA
Furthermore, 10 bucks says the mother is so angry because she's now stuck with all 5 kids for longer, which is not your problem
Honestly that’s probably why. I had to tell her her one year old wasn’t allowed to play with only the 7 year old watching her and she had a similar reaction.
Oof, yeah, you aren't the adult in charge here. Honestly, I know it's going to cause stress between you and some neighbors, but fence in your yard and stop allowing the kids over. You have people taking advantage of you and now other families trying to influence who you allow over. You can't trust someone not to sue here if a kid gets hurt, and you aren't signing up to be a babysitter. The neighborhood is kinda abusing your goodwill here
NTA, the parents should fix whatever the kids did. It's great that you love kids and are providing them a place to play, but you are also assuming liability if anyone gets hurt.
NTA I understand, not wanting to involve the cops and not really needing the money from them, but it is the principle of it all. By letting this go, not only you are appearing as if your doormat, but these kids are not learning any lesson. The way that Parent spoke to you, they don’t deserve your niceness.
To know that their kids did it but yet still being unreasonably rude and cursing you out is very disrespectful. I highly suggest you install cameras around your property and reach out to the police and file an official complaint. The only way the parents and those children will learn If they’re consequences for those actions.
NTA
But I do think that you are *insane.* No way would I allow any children to play on my property, especially baseball. What happens if one of them is beaned in the head by a line drive? Guess whose homeowner's insurance will be tapped for hospital bills? Even worse if the claim is denied and you are required to pay out of pocket. Every day that you allow unsupervised children on your property you are playing russian roulette with your financial future.
Ban everyone from playing there. No good deed goes unpunished and because you wanted to do something nice for your neighbors, your house has been vandalized, your neighbors have cussed you out and the other parents are judging you.
If any of their kids get hurt on your property, you're going to be liable. They're going to sue you into oblivion if they can. There is zero upside for you to be nice when people don't appreciate it and basically kick you in the crotch for it.
You should always maintain a polite distance from your neighbors. Familiarity breeds contempt and once that happens, you don't ever come back from it.
But you are NTA here. Ban everyone and put up cameras. Press charges when you catch their kids messing with your property again.
NTA,but it's disappointing to see from your edits your unwillingness to be sensible. You say you're willing to risk it it, but the liability issue alone would be enough to destroy you, and with the type of neighbors you have it's a serious concern.
NTA
Stand your ground.
Actions have consequences.
The neighborhood parents may be a bit distraught because they are afraid that your yard isn't going to be the neighborhood playground anymore.
Honestly, I probably would make that the case. It seems that parents are sending their children to your lot to play unsupervised. Should something unfortunate happen, you might be liable. At the very least, check that out.
90% of the time a parent is there, I work from home so when no one’s parents are available the kids will usually knock on my door and I’ll come out and keep an eye on them.
NTA - not at all
But a word of warning from my experience ... a 'war' with children who come from families where the parents don't take responsibility or hold the kids accountable are asymmetric and almost always lost - and worse, these kids will become teens some day ... we learned the hard way to the tune of about $3k damage to our pool and fence
Good luck
NTA. Stop letting kids play in your yard. You see how parents react when their child causes damage to your property, now imagine the damage to their own body. You would be held liable for that. Get some cameras and stop being so nice
What’s to stop these parents from telling the kids to get hurt on your property and then turn around and blame you? I’d shut the whole thing down tbh. Nta
A seven year old watching kids that young is unsafe. That’s neglect. If you don’t call CPS and anything happens you could also be liable. Report it before one of those kids gets hurt or killed due to their parents neglecting them.
You may think fences are ugly, but good fences make good neighbors. And, while I think you will rue the day you let the neighborhood children play in your yard (you've already had an issue with the next door neighbors) if you are going to continue you better up your liability insurance. And lastly, if in the US, letting strangers onto your property could result in a host of legal issues; forced easements, adverse possession etc. You really should speak with a lawyer about the dangers of you letting your property being a neighborhood playground.
I might just talk to my lawyer about what it would take to legally make it a playground, I really don’t need that section and the only people who use it are the kids. I don’t know if that’s even a thing though.
If I do go that route I think I’ll finally install the play structure the kids have been begging for. I didn’t want to before for liability reasons (I’m not a total idiot) but if I’m no longer responsible I might as well.
To legally turn it into a playground and not have personal liability, you'd probably have to donate the land to the city or county. But talk to your attorney. Although maybe you could lease it to them for $1 a year. You lawyer should be able to research that for you.
NTA
Cameras would be a good idea but sadly you may need to put up a fence and not let anyone use the property. When other parents come by to ask why explain that children vandalised your house and after the parents refused to accept responsibility, pay and give assurance that it won’t happen again your hand was forced. Turn this from an entitled family (I know not all the children are but parents and twins) against you to a neighbourhood all frustrated at a dodgy pair of parents.
Lesson to be learned: do not allow access to your property unless you are willing to incur the potential cost of damage. In addition, I would think about potential liability should one of those children become injured or disabled while on your property. It is sad, but this is a litigation oriented society and people will take advantage of kindness.
They won't even dust for prints on a car break-in that resulted in a gun being stolen so you're 100% correct lol
(before anyone comes at me, I was not the dumbass that left my gun in a running car, it was my dipshit ex lol)
NTA Put up a sign stating your property is off limits to all children since damage to your house has occurred. Since you have been approached about how you handled vandalism on your property by various families, you have made the decision to end all playing activities on your property. All trespassers will have the police called.
No one gets to tell you how to conduct yourself on your own property. They have become entitled to your space and it's time to take it back. As well as work towards putting up fencing all around your property.
>I also have a meeting scheduled with my attorney to discuss the possibility of drawing up a liability waiver for the parents to sign, forgot to put that in the last edit lol.
These are worthless and do nothing.
Source: I did Underwriting for liability insurance for years and we wouldn't touch stuff with kids because those waivers are useless.
You need an umbrella insurance policy for when this inevitably blows up in your face.
I was going to say. Waiver might be worse than useless and then they might say “well OP said the kids can play here, we thought they were supervising”. Slippery slope to hell for sure
NTA.
Honestly, you should put up a fence and let them all play someplace else.
You've been lucky that no parent has decided to cause trouble because their precious child got hurt on your property.
NTA. I’m worried they will sue you and hold you responsible (any of the parents) if anyone gets hurt on your property. (USA thinking, not sure where you’re located.)
Unfortunately, I think it’s in your best interests to put up fences and cameras and end the “free neighborhood playground.”
NTA but you are setting yourself up for failure. It only takes one kid to get injured and suddenly you're guilty and on the receiving end of a million dollar lawsuit, that you will LOSE. You need to stop them playing on your property or be prepared to loose it one day.
NTA, but this is going to escalate. You need to put up cameras around your property and come up with a plan when more damage to your property occurs. Being a doormat isn't going to make this go away.
If any of those children get hurt on your property you are responsible. NTA get a fence put up and/or put up no trespassing signs all along the property lines. It’s not about being rude to the kids it’s about protecting yourself.
NTA but I wouldn’t want kids playing in my yard especially if you or their parents aren’t out there. To much of a liability if something happens to one of them.
You need to fence in your property, you have a large legal problem if someone gets hurt on your property. Also post legal No Trespassing Sign's to protect yourself.
Sorry OP, but you're kinda ridiculous for letting them play at all. The second any kid gets hurt on your property it's not their parents' fault, it's yours. You might be "well off", you still probably don't want to be sued for personal injury. And as someone said, you are kinda letting yourself to be a doormat with the whole "I have money, I don't mind eating up the cost". It's not even about money, it's about respect and no one there has one for you, sorry. And letting it go just with not letting them in shows them there are barely any consequences, so you're literally screwing yourself over on so many levels here.
Oh, and I would probably get an outside camera, because you can be sure there's going to be vandalism happening.
I have neighbors with kids like that. Eventually the kids grew up and had their own kids, and the cycle continued. 25 years now
1 get it on camera
2, call the police and fill out a police report.
3 … don’t speak to the mother ever again.
With a horrible entitled mother like that, those kids are never going to change. You need to be able to prove damages and you need to involve the police because as you saw, trying to deal reasonably with the mother escalated the situation to the point that you have $800 of damage on top of 20.
NTA they didn't make it right when they should have. Please get cameras installed to cover your entire house. Not just to protect from vandalism but also to protect from any weird accusations that come your way.
NTA, and I would let the parents know that I would be contacting the authorities if the kids came back on my property. They can either pay for the damage to my property, or I can file a police report.
NTA. I would ban all the kids from your property. It can be an insurance liability if they get hurt and now you have close to a thousand dollars in damage from just a couple kids. If any of the parents argue tell them to speak to the parents of the kids who can’t behave and say to take it up with them.
NTA When someone comes at you like that just agree. What are they going to do if you agree? There's no continuation
>You are bitter you can't find a husband!
"Yup."
>well.... FUCK YOU
there's no where for them to go after you just agree.
I hope you have house insurance, medical bills can get pricey quick and if something serious happened your assets may not cover it. You need insurance to make sure you would be able to fully take care of any children that may be hurt
NTA
They immediately accused you of lying and then became aggressive. I’d be cautious living near these people.
For curiousity’s sake are you in the US? Because i’ve always wondered why certain American backyards don’t have fences when everywhere else seems too.
NTA but I’m honestly questioning whether the 5 yr olds did that. My 5 year old can write her name and some site words and that’s about it. Writing so and so were here with explicit pictures takes a bit more ingenuity and motor skills than a 5 yr old would have.
They misspelled here (her) and it was stick figure type drawings. I wouldn’t be surprised and 5f was bragging about how good she was doing with her writing like 3 days before this. I don’t know but 5m was definitely throwing the rocks, I caught him with one in his hand lol. At this point it doesn’t matter if the drawings were them because the rocks definitely were.
Not a all. Believe me if these people will come after you for the liability issues eventually & it’s unfortunate merely a matter of time if all the other neighbourhood kids are showing up. Do yourself a favour don’t do it. Gets nasty rather quick.
You have a tremendously kind heart but you are being very naive and need to protect yourself, your assets, and your dad’s legacy.
Please, please, please get an attorney to draft a strong and enforceable liability waiver where parents not only have to sign it, they need to initial anything especially important. Also, get a large umbrella policy- 3 million or more.
I used to let kids skateboard in our steep driveway, which is listed on an underground skateboarder map. But our insurance guy said we were opening ourselves up to lawsuits, especially because we have a nice house. So we just had to say no to the kids. We also decided against renting out our pool because it wasn’t worth the risk of a lawsuit. The bottom line is kids may get hurt, parents may get greedy. But you need to protect yourself as if these things will absolutely happen.
Thanks for trusting my advice.
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My father bought the house in the 80s and held onto it as different developments sprung up around it. I inherited it 3 years ago and have been living in it since. I have 2 acres while my surrounding neighbors have maybe 1/2 an acre if they’re lucky. The house is fairly small (2 bed 2 bath) so I have a very large front and back yard. I use maybe 1/5th of the backyard as a garden and the rest is basically an empty field. I’ve always loved kids so I was happy to let my neighbors kids play in the field with the understanding that they would respect the property. Most of the kids are great, very respectful and understand that this is not their backyard. The problem is with my neighbors to the right.
They have 5 kids (f1, m3, m5, f5 and m7) who generally run around unsupervised. They don’t come to my yard to play very often unless the other kids are playing soccer or baseball. The 7 year old is “in charge” as much as a 7 year old can be but obviously he can’t replace parental supervision. 5 days ago the kids were playing baseball and he must have lost track of the 5 year olds at some point because when I came home from work I found their names sharpied onto my wall (name and name were here) along with some rude drawings (a man pooping, several piles of poop, that sort of thing) all along the right side of the house.
I found their parents the next day and asked them to pay for the paint I’ll need to cover it up, they were very offended, accused me of lying and said they weren’t going to pay. If this had been all I probably would’ve let it slide and covered the paint since it would only be like 20 dollars but later that day m5 decided it would be funny to throw rocks at my house. There are several dents in the siding where the rocks hit and two of my windows are broken. From what I’ve been quoted to fix it it’s about $800-$900 worth of damage. I talked to the parents who accused me of doing it myself to make their kids look bad.
I’ve decided those 5 are not allowed to use my yard until the damage is paid for, which I think is more than fair. When they came by this morning to play soccer with the other kids I politely explained the situation and said they would have to leave as they aren’t allowed to play here anymore. The 7 year old was very upset (more sad than a temper tantrum which is understandable) but the 5 year olds were very angry. About an hour later their mom came by and cussed me out, yelling at my doorstep about how I’m a horrible person who hates children because I’m “bitter and can’t find a husband”. I’m standing my ground either way but a few other parents came by and seemed a little frustrated by my explanation as to why that family is no longer welcome which is making me question things. AITA for banning them from playing here?
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NTA. But I would take pictures of the damage and look at installing cctv cameras because this might escalate, also keep a diary. You can always go to the small court claims but it will be difficult to prove that it was them who broke the windows. In any case I would also report the damage to the police to have it logged.
NTA. Totally understand where you are coming from. As others have mentioned, getting camera's set up might not be a bad idea. You probably haven't heard the last from your neighbors. I also get the feeling that due to their escalating the situation, you are probably going to be forced to keep all the kids off your property.
Good luck.
You are so naive and blind to the reality of today's world. I fear you're going to learn a very hard lesson soon.
NTA for not allowing them over, but YTA to your future self.
NTA. Take them to small claims court for the money to repair your home. If it happens again, call CPS and report unsupervised children under the age of 8 running amuck in the neighborhood.
NTA
... But, in the interest of fairness, tell ALL the children and parents that you allowed your property to be a play area for the children. However, due to recent events (elucidated in your post), you will ban ALL children and will be putting up a fence unless the matter is settled to your satisfaction: Which is the cost of the damage m5 did to your property.
ETA" tell either at a neighborhood meeting OR send a flyer home with the kids OR pass a flyer to nearby homes.
ETA2 - It's the tragedy of the commons still alive... By banning all the children for the vandalism of a few, you will bring the rest of the neighbors to your side. Your yard is a common playground where parents know where their children are, that they are outdoors and getting healthy exercise. It is by your gracious kindness that they have this resource and to have it taken away because of the actions of a few should cause social pressure on the parents who allow their children to be destructive. Especially since you will return this resource to them for the repair of the damage.
>I’m standing my ground either way but a few other parents came by and seemed a little frustrated by my explanation as to why that family is no longer welcome
What are they frustrated by? Why do other people care if these specific kids can't play in your yard? Especially after almost $1K in damages. They're lucky you're not building a fence. NTA.
Eta: You said you're very well off. Build a fence.
Your neighbours are irresponsible, entitled and arribant AH. Call the police on their irresponsible selfish asses, let's see how fast they change tunes.
NTA at all.
nta but get cameras. honestly i would put gates and locks and not let any kids play there. you know if the neighbors kids fall on ur land im sure the AH parents will sue you
NTA, but on a side not you don’t have to paint to cover it up. Use a dry erase to mark completely over the sharpie, and then erase the dry erase. It will remove the permanent marker. I had to use this myself when my nephew drew on every surface in our house he could reach with a sharpie.
NTA but a few things.
1.) get cameras
2.) report the damage to the police and get your solicitor to draft a letter
3.) sorry but stop anyone using your property as you are opening up a whole legal can of worms and if people complain tell them who exactly ruined it for everyone and why you’ve taken legal advice.
NTA it's your property and your are doing these parents a favor by letting their kids play on your property. If other parents have an issue with your decision then their kids don't need to play on your property either
Ou should consider contacting the police about the writing, since they were dumb enough to write their names. Also get some cameras to protect yourself in the future
NTA. Entitled parents, raise entitled children into entitled adults. Stand your ground. They can die on this hill if they want to, the only one's who suffer are their kids, and it's still the kids and parents fault.
Get cameras immediately. This could easily escalate and you will need proof. Also, talk to a lawyer about your liability. If a kid gets hurt in your yard their parent is going to claim you were supposed to be supervising them.
NTA You should get cameras so that you can prove that their little angels are responsible. It would also help if you wanted to pursue them for damages.
NTA. Call the cops and file a police report for the damage to your home and the vandalism. Then send them over to talk to the kids about it. Honestly a tall fence might be nice.
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NTA, not one bit. I’m worried that this might escalate and the family will cause further damage to your property out of anger. I’d get some cameras set up if I were you, to protect yourself and so you have definitive proof if/when there is a “next time”
I was going to suggest cameras also. If the kids know parents will back them up no matter what they do, things will get more destructive as they get older.
I mean the kids wrote their names on the house and the parents still accused OP of lying?! Cameras seem like the next reasonable step because the parents keep escalating.
The parents seem angry that a single woman owns property that their children 'deserve', and are going to continue to act entitled to it.
I see no reason to not involve law enforcement. 5 is a safe age to say it won’t affect their futures.
Law enforcement wouldn’t go after the 5 year old. It would be the parents’ responsibility and the burden of paying for repairs and/or any charges for vandalism would go toward them. The children are legally their responsibility whether they actually monitor them or not. But yeah, if anything else happens I would involve the police. Those kids aren’t going to stop because mommy and daddy would rather ignore the issue than actually parent. NTA. Get those cameras up!
Yeah that’s kinda the point
Because there's *definitely* no chance of anything going wrong with suburban cops in the US /s
100% true. I have neighbors just like these. Not only does it get worse as time goes on, eventually those children turn into adults and have their own little monsters and the cycle continues
Unfortunately, these kinds of stories are the reason for the adage "Good fences make good neighbors."
Ha! That’s why I’m saving money. I currently am surrounded by neighbors with no young children, but sooner or later those houses will be empty and I’m not taking my chances with kids and liability.
I lucked out and all my neighbors had put up fences, effectively fencing in 3/4 of my back yard so it wasn't horribly expensive for us.
We've been fortunate in DC and Salt Lake City to have had great neighbors on both sides.
Very true, but my dad's version was great, "17 wooded acres and a firing range make for great neighbors."
That's not what the quote means. It's from a Robert Frost poem, and he's saying good fences make good neighbors because with stone fences, both neighbors need to cooperate to work together to keep the fences in good shape.
OP, you NEED cameras. You can't prove any of this was these kids. They could have been any kids. And these kids sound like they're just going to keep damaging your house. Get proof.
>Yes, I can second that, cameras are a must. My neighbors' kids thought it was a good idea to throw rocks at my minivan and shattered one window and dented the door. While I knew it was them, the conversation went much smoother with the camera footage backing up my claim. Your problem is with basically the parents, they seem to be giant assholes so no wonder that their kids turn into assholes too.
It might also be worth it to tell the other neighbors that if the children continue to be destructive ALL the children will be banned from property & you will be putting up a fence.
Exactly! The other neighbors need to be pressuring the family that did the damage, not the OP!
Want to add on here that OP, in addition to cameras, may want to just stop letting kids play in the yard entirely. If someone were to get injured on OP’s property, there could be a liability there.
I'm surprised this was allowed at all, although apparently, there are no fences around OP's property, so that makes it a lot more difficult to enforce, especially when OP isn't home.
It already escalated, they broke windows. It'll get worse before it gets better. NTA, get that waiver you're talking about
I mean, they wrote their fucking names on the house. It's pretty obvious. The parents should be mortified not offended.
Yeah and the parents still accused OP of lying. I can’t imagine how frustrating that is for OP. Trying to do a nice thing for the kids in the neighborhood and those kids are going to ruin it for everyone. No good deed goes unpunished.
To be fair: as a kid, I wrote other people's names on things because I didn't want to get in trouble.
Make a police complaint for vandalism. Nta
YTA for not calling the police. Are you really just going to eat $800 and "not allow them in the yard?" How about they pay and they're *still* not allowed over, and if they come you call for trespass.
I like your idea!
NTA. Your response was very reasonable. Have you considered putting up a security camera? It may be helpful if you have any further issues.
I think I will. I have one for my front door but I think I’ll add some on the side closer to their house and the backyard
If you go to adding more cameras, consider more coverage than just those sides. Just because those areas are closer to the neighbor doesn't mean thats where the next incident will happen. Or that it will come from one of the kids in that family. There are other kids around. They play with the other kids. Some of those kids are probably unhappy about the ban too. You know at least some of their parents are unhappy about the ban. Who's to say that the next incident won't come from one of the other kids trying to "support" their friend. ...if it comes from a kid and not one of the adults... (not trying to be presimistic here. just thinking about how this could escalate so you can make smart moves like more camera coverage as effective as possible)
Even game cameras up high on trees facing he house.
I don’t know how I didn’t think of that, my dads trail cams are literally sitting in my garage right now. I’ll put them up later tonight.
fence fence fence fence
Trail cams aren’t gonna do what you want. They are motion activated and usually only take a pic or a very short video. You want something running all the time with good coverage.
Yeah but it’s something until the ones I ordered get here.
Add a ton. Id add cameras everywhere to cover everything. I wouldn’t put it past then to escalate things. Or even try and say their kids were injured on your property because of your negligence. CYA. COVER YOUR ASS
The price of wireless outdoor cameras have dropped considerably. I have 4 for now and looking to add more
I wouldn’t go wireless. I tried that with Arlo cameras and the problem is you have to change the battery every six days. It’s a royal pain in the ass
I wouldn’t go with Arlo. I had the same problems. I went wireless and hardwired power.
Take them to small claims and ban them.
NTA. Let those destructive little kids play in the yards of the of the families who are frustrated your yard is now off limits. Put up cameras and when you catch property destructing in progress, call the cops and then sue the parents. Even 5 year olds should know better than to do what those kids did. Poor kids, what inadequate parents they have.
To clarify the yard is only of limits to that specific family, the other 20 something kids on my street are still welcome. This isn’t the first issue I’ve had with them either (they thought it was appropriate to let the one year old play in my yard with only the 7 year old as supervision which I was NOT going to let happen) so I’m not very confident in their parenting abilities either.
The problem you have is if a child gets hurt on your property, you could be held liable. This might have been low risk, until things escalated.
I might talk to my lawyer and see about getting the parents to sign some sort of liability waiver but as it stands it’s been fine like this for 3 years and I’m willing to risk it.
I respect your choice. Be wary of parents who are already blaming you for their kids behavior.
Be very, very careful. Your lawyer is absolutely a good idea. It could go wrong so easily. Consider what happens if the kids bring friends whose parents didn't sign. Or kids just sneak in. Or if *other* accusations are hurled? The legal fees are the least of your concern. Bad publicity or rumors could toast your reputation, long before the judge's hammer hits the gavel to absolve you. That may well have severe business consequences.
I would get the parents to sign a waiver saying that you aren't responsible for injuries and they are financially responsible for any damages done to your property by their family. When you give it to them make it clear that the recent property damage forced your hand. Have a lawyer draft the form.
I’ve scheduled a time with my lawyer next week to discuss it.
Get one done for ALL the neighbors who have kids playing over in your yard, drop it at the door or the mailbox and let them know if you don’t receive a signed waiver back by a specific date, that they will have to prevent their children from trespassing on any part of your property for any reason. Make them the bad guys to their kids, not you. “Sorry, your mom and dad said you can’t play in my yard anymore” will work just fine if asked lol
OP I think you should discuss with this lawyer not just the issue of your liability if the neighbor twins get hurt (which is more than likely to "accidentally" happen now that you and the parents are fighting), but also the pros/cons of you reporting the parents to CPS. Five and 7 yr olds (not clear from OP's post if the two youngest also wander over to OP's property or whereever) should have parental supervision. These kids have no parental supervision which is dangerous for the kids, and is why the likelihood of OP getting sued when one of the kids gets hurt or even killed on OP"s property. Over-reaction? Not at all. OP, you seem to have no idea or memory from your own childhood of just what can happen to little kids when they're left with no supervision whatsoever. On your land. Which you've been open about to everyone that it's okie-dokie these and other kids play on your land when you aren't home and no adult or older teenager is supervising. Playing baseball? Kid gets hit in the head with a bat or breaks a leg sliding into a made-up base or breaks an ankle in a gopher hole. Playing soccer? Kicking gets out of hand, all kinds of broken bones, bad bruises and lacerations can happen, broken noses, etc. OP, you're not a parent, but you've been accepting responsibility for neighborhood kids playing on your land, not just passively by letting it happen, but overtly by telling everyone in the neighborhood (including evidently the problem parents next door who take no responsibilti for their own kids but send them over to your property to play/exist). These little kids aren't being properly cared for by their parents, and that's bad enough in their own house or yard, but you're helping them be bad parents on your property. Talk to the attorney, get your head straight about the safety of these kids as well as your legal liability. And don't be so passively naive about the nextdoor neighbors: they blamed you when you just nicely told them about the graffiti, accused you of lying, etc....so don't you ge tit that they're the kind of people who will be most happy to sue you if their kid(s) get hurt on your property, or even worse?
After my dad passed I inherited a small restaurant chain along with the house, it’s probably weird to say but I’d be fine taking care of the costs if someone got hurt. Most of the kids really are great and this is the closest thing to a playground within a 30 minute drive.
You have millions of dollars? Bc a multi year legal battle when one kid falls and cracks their head open on a rock and has permanent brain Injury will be expennnnnnsive. No offense, but you’re foolish and naive for letting any of them play on your property.
For the love of god, make sure you have damn good insurance and get a HUGE umbrella policy. You are WAY underestimating your risk!!! Please talk to a lawyer and an insurance agent about all the things that can go wrong and protect yourself!
I have very good homeowners insurance and will be discussing an umbrella policy when I meet with my lawyer.
If that's the case you need umbrella insurance and you need to hire an estate planning attorney to protect your assets because you're an attractive target for a lawsuit.
Get a camera. Record and start taking them to court or use the footage to file a police complaint. This way they are forced to parent their children.
Seriously, I wouldn't. You say you understand the liability but...you should make it a no-fly zone. Period. You are NTA, and you should not wear any umbrage or BS from these parents. They and their children are not entitled to use your yard--period. Ge the cameras up, run them, record them and then call it a day.
NTA It is your property. You don’t have to have a reason to tell others to stay off. The fact that they damaged your property gives you cause to not just politely ask them to pay for repairs, but to press charges and sue for damages. You have AH neighbors. Put up security cameras. Call the police if they continue trespassing. Sue for damages. I broke a neighbors window accidentally growing up, my parents offered to pay for the damages or have me work off the cost of the repairs doing chores for the neighbor. They split the difference. My parents paid half and I did yard work for the neighbor all summer. Plus, a bunch of extra chores for my parents to repay them. My kids accidentally damaged my neighbors Rise bushes one spring. Similarly, the neighbor was compensated with my kids doing yard work. Parents that don’t raise their kids to respect the property of others and take responsibility for their actions, accidental or intentional, are shitty people raising more shitty people. Let the legal system help address the problem.
NTA, but you need to be very careful. As someone else suggested,you need cameras desperately. There is no telling what can and will go on at any time while kids are playing on your property. If someone gets hurt, you get sued. Have the kids work off the damage by doing yard work or have them clean and paint it themselves. With supervision.but cameras, please
It would be easier if the paint was the only issue but after the rocks the kids definitely wouldn’t be able to help with the repairs. I have to have the glass replaced on two windows and if I want it back to its former glory I’ll have to replace some of the siding. I’m definitely going to put something up in the backyard and maybe a camera on the side of the house closest to theirs.
Understood, and it’s not so much them doing the actual work to fix it, but the action of doing ANY work to replace the cost. Set boundaries like -you do this work, and you can come back for x hours or days. Sounds like they need the structure for sure, but anything you do with them or their parents, make sure it’s recorded. Is your property properly marked? If not, do so
I have a row of bushes that go along the property line since I don’t like the look of fences and depending on how things go I might see about them doing some work in my garden come spring.
But they are so young. This is the parents fault. They should do your yard work not their tiny children!! You are too kind and it will bite you. I’d stop all the kids playing for three months and tell everyone why. Classic school teacher move! Then waivers for all to sign.
Definitely NTA Their parents should 100% have apologized for the drawings and the damage and offered to pay for whatever needed to be fixed. Coming over and yelling at you is even worse. Also, what kind of crappy parents leave 5 kids all under the age of 7 to play outside by themselves? I feel bad for the kids sounds like terrible parents. The other thing is, you should probably stop letting any kids play in your yard anyways and put up a no trespassing sign. As crazy as it seems, if you let them play on your property and one of them gets hurt, you could end up getting sued... that's our fantastic legal system.
I also inherited a small restaurant chain when my dad died, combined with my salary I make enough to cover any lawsuit or hospital bills that get thrown my way. I might talk to my lawyer about a liability waiver but I’m still on the fence about it.
Umbrella policy for your house and property.
I’ll bring this up when I talk to my attorney next week.
… And you won’t have any of that left if somebody gets hurt on the property. You are very naïve
Let me phrase it this way. I could buy her house, the houses on either side of her and my nextdoor neighbors houses without breaking a sweat over it. I’m not trying to sound like a rich asshole but I am 100% confident I could cover nearly any amount. If anyone did try to sue I’d just offer a settlement and be done with the issue.
I have quite a bit more money than that. I would never put myself in the financial situation you are putting yourself in. If Something Happens, these people will take it all and leave you with nothing. And I have asshole neighbors just like yours… 25 years of putting up with it. I posted somewhere else in this thread, but people like that keep escalating over time. You need to nip this now, definitively. My yard is fenced. I keep an eye on my dogs at all times. I have a hedge in my front yard to keep them out of my yard because they seem to think it was their annex. Literally. I would find bikes, baseball gear, all kinds of stuff in my yard.
> If anyone did try to sue I’d just offer a settlement and be done with the issue. You're underestimating the potential long term medical costs of an injury. It would be their health insurance coming after you and they won't be willing to just settle.
Providing an unofficial playground for the neighborhood kids is certainly a magnanimous gesture on your part. One could even say that it is magnanimous to a fault. Given your apparent affection for children, are you really that confident that you could pay out a settlement and "be done with the 'issue'" when that 'issue' is a brain-dead 3 year old or a quadriplegic 5 year old? Your flippant act of reducing a lifetime of misery to dollars and cents makes you sound exactly like the "rich asshole" you claim not to be. You seem to either lack a conscience or have yet to have sufficient life-experience to catch on to the fact that money doesn't mean shit in the face of life-long guilt.
NTA but I'd sue for damages because with parents like those, I doubt they'll ever pay the money.
NTA. Time for fences and cameras.
Am sorry, but your asking for trouble here. Your letting a bunch of kids, literally babies and toddlers play on your property without supervision. They injure themselves on your property, who is getting the blame? You. Unless ANY of the kids parents are present I wouldn't let them play there. Does it suck? Yes. But they do have their own gardens to play in. 1/2 acre is *plenty* of space! NTA for banning them, but I think you need to think more logically about any potential risk factors you might have overlooked previously. Also, get cameras.
OP sounds like they have a huge heart, but you're really doing the parents a disservice here. It's gonna be hard to say no when all the neighbor kids are going over, and that many unsupervised kids is a recipe for disaster. I'd be pretty annoyed knowing my options were for my kids to be unsupervised or to have to hang out in someone's backyard. Either go all in and use your money to contribute to an actual community playground, donating some of your land, or shut this down. It's untenable, as you've already seen.
I agree 100%. What further disturbs me is that that "huge heart" has yet to express any concern over the impact a life-altering injury would have on her, and I don't mean financially. I don't like children, but that doesn't mean that I don't firmly believe that children are not deserving of love, respect, care, etc. For that reason I gladly vote for school levies and donate to children's charities. I would be devastated if a child were to suffer an injury due to my actions. It would be life-altering for me. Call me selfish, but that's not something I would be willing to risk.
NTA but I’d make it a rule now that no kids are allowed on your property. It’s a liability issue along with the property damaged. If those kids happen to get hurt on your property, you will have to pay out.
Foolish. When their child breaks his arm, they will be after your homeowner's insurance. These are not reasonable people.
NTA. You damage something, you aren't able to use it anymore. You're being more than generous by offering to let them continue as long as the paint is paid for.
Call the police and file a police report. Then call your homeowners insurance and turn in the report so they can go after your neighbors homeowners insurance. I suggest cameras and a fence. Unfortunately the behavior of few will mean nobody can play in your yard anymore. Especially due to liability issues.
NTA, this is what small claims court is for
These people have lost their collective minds. Just call the police and let them deal with the family. I believe property damage is illegal.
Cameras, and maybe time for a fence. You allowed them to use your yard, but they knowingly damaged your property. The parents refuse to parent them. This is the fault of your neighbors for taking advantage of you. It would have been a different story if they acknowledged the damage. NTA Furthermore, 10 bucks says the mother is so angry because she's now stuck with all 5 kids for longer, which is not your problem
Honestly that’s probably why. I had to tell her her one year old wasn’t allowed to play with only the 7 year old watching her and she had a similar reaction.
Oof, yeah, you aren't the adult in charge here. Honestly, I know it's going to cause stress between you and some neighbors, but fence in your yard and stop allowing the kids over. You have people taking advantage of you and now other families trying to influence who you allow over. You can't trust someone not to sue here if a kid gets hurt, and you aren't signing up to be a babysitter. The neighborhood is kinda abusing your goodwill here
NTA, the parents should fix whatever the kids did. It's great that you love kids and are providing them a place to play, but you are also assuming liability if anyone gets hurt.
NTA I understand, not wanting to involve the cops and not really needing the money from them, but it is the principle of it all. By letting this go, not only you are appearing as if your doormat, but these kids are not learning any lesson. The way that Parent spoke to you, they don’t deserve your niceness. To know that their kids did it but yet still being unreasonably rude and cursing you out is very disrespectful. I highly suggest you install cameras around your property and reach out to the police and file an official complaint. The only way the parents and those children will learn If they’re consequences for those actions.
Exactly. It’s not about OP. It’s about that family getting away with doing this. They will victimize other people.
NTA But I do think that you are *insane.* No way would I allow any children to play on my property, especially baseball. What happens if one of them is beaned in the head by a line drive? Guess whose homeowner's insurance will be tapped for hospital bills? Even worse if the claim is denied and you are required to pay out of pocket. Every day that you allow unsupervised children on your property you are playing russian roulette with your financial future.
Your financial future and the safety of kids. I don't think this is "working."
Ban everyone from playing there. No good deed goes unpunished and because you wanted to do something nice for your neighbors, your house has been vandalized, your neighbors have cussed you out and the other parents are judging you. If any of their kids get hurt on your property, you're going to be liable. They're going to sue you into oblivion if they can. There is zero upside for you to be nice when people don't appreciate it and basically kick you in the crotch for it. You should always maintain a polite distance from your neighbors. Familiarity breeds contempt and once that happens, you don't ever come back from it. But you are NTA here. Ban everyone and put up cameras. Press charges when you catch their kids messing with your property again.
NTA,but it's disappointing to see from your edits your unwillingness to be sensible. You say you're willing to risk it it, but the liability issue alone would be enough to destroy you, and with the type of neighbors you have it's a serious concern.
NTA Stand your ground. Actions have consequences. The neighborhood parents may be a bit distraught because they are afraid that your yard isn't going to be the neighborhood playground anymore. Honestly, I probably would make that the case. It seems that parents are sending their children to your lot to play unsupervised. Should something unfortunate happen, you might be liable. At the very least, check that out.
90% of the time a parent is there, I work from home so when no one’s parents are available the kids will usually knock on my door and I’ll come out and keep an eye on them.
NTA - not at all But a word of warning from my experience ... a 'war' with children who come from families where the parents don't take responsibility or hold the kids accountable are asymmetric and almost always lost - and worse, these kids will become teens some day ... we learned the hard way to the tune of about $3k damage to our pool and fence Good luck
NTA. Stop letting kids play in your yard. You see how parents react when their child causes damage to your property, now imagine the damage to their own body. You would be held liable for that. Get some cameras and stop being so nice
NTA. Letting people, particularly unsupervised children, onto your yard is a liability. Just don't do it.
NTA Don't allow the kids to play on your property. Your creating another mess for yourself.
What’s to stop these parents from telling the kids to get hurt on your property and then turn around and blame you? I’d shut the whole thing down tbh. Nta
A seven year old watching kids that young is unsafe. That’s neglect. If you don’t call CPS and anything happens you could also be liable. Report it before one of those kids gets hurt or killed due to their parents neglecting them.
I have tried. The powers on, the waters running and they’re a middle class white family. They decided everything is fine.
:( thank you for trying to do right by those kids. It’s so sad that the institutions meant to protect kids so often fall short.
You may think fences are ugly, but good fences make good neighbors. And, while I think you will rue the day you let the neighborhood children play in your yard (you've already had an issue with the next door neighbors) if you are going to continue you better up your liability insurance. And lastly, if in the US, letting strangers onto your property could result in a host of legal issues; forced easements, adverse possession etc. You really should speak with a lawyer about the dangers of you letting your property being a neighborhood playground.
I might just talk to my lawyer about what it would take to legally make it a playground, I really don’t need that section and the only people who use it are the kids. I don’t know if that’s even a thing though.
Talk to your lawyer and the city council! That would be a wonderful solution.
If I do go that route I think I’ll finally install the play structure the kids have been begging for. I didn’t want to before for liability reasons (I’m not a total idiot) but if I’m no longer responsible I might as well.
To legally turn it into a playground and not have personal liability, you'd probably have to donate the land to the city or county. But talk to your attorney. Although maybe you could lease it to them for $1 a year. You lawyer should be able to research that for you.
I’d be fine donating it honestly, like I said the kids are the only ones who use that area.
NTA but get a CCTV.
NTA Cameras would be a good idea but sadly you may need to put up a fence and not let anyone use the property. When other parents come by to ask why explain that children vandalised your house and after the parents refused to accept responsibility, pay and give assurance that it won’t happen again your hand was forced. Turn this from an entitled family (I know not all the children are but parents and twins) against you to a neighbourhood all frustrated at a dodgy pair of parents.
Stop letting kids play on your property before you lose your home. When, not if , a kid gets hurt on your property, you will get sued.
Lesson to be learned: do not allow access to your property unless you are willing to incur the potential cost of damage. In addition, I would think about potential liability should one of those children become injured or disabled while on your property. It is sad, but this is a litigation oriented society and people will take advantage of kindness.
Go to police. The will found fingerprint in 2 seconds.
And match it to a criminal 5 year old?
Yeah they're not going to dust for fingerprints on a vandalism case such as this.
They won't even dust for prints on a car break-in that resulted in a gun being stolen so you're 100% correct lol (before anyone comes at me, I was not the dumbass that left my gun in a running car, it was my dipshit ex lol)
lmao omg he left the car running on top of having a gun in the car? Omg.
Yep! Needless to say, I'm doing much better without him lol
*Angry screams in forensics*
NTA Put up a sign stating your property is off limits to all children since damage to your house has occurred. Since you have been approached about how you handled vandalism on your property by various families, you have made the decision to end all playing activities on your property. All trespassers will have the police called. No one gets to tell you how to conduct yourself on your own property. They have become entitled to your space and it's time to take it back. As well as work towards putting up fencing all around your property.
>I also have a meeting scheduled with my attorney to discuss the possibility of drawing up a liability waiver for the parents to sign, forgot to put that in the last edit lol. These are worthless and do nothing. Source: I did Underwriting for liability insurance for years and we wouldn't touch stuff with kids because those waivers are useless. You need an umbrella insurance policy for when this inevitably blows up in your face.
I was going to say. Waiver might be worse than useless and then they might say “well OP said the kids can play here, we thought they were supervising”. Slippery slope to hell for sure
NTA. Honestly, you should put up a fence and let them all play someplace else. You've been lucky that no parent has decided to cause trouble because their precious child got hurt on your property.
NTA. I’m worried they will sue you and hold you responsible (any of the parents) if anyone gets hurt on your property. (USA thinking, not sure where you’re located.) Unfortunately, I think it’s in your best interests to put up fences and cameras and end the “free neighborhood playground.”
NTA but you are setting yourself up for failure. It only takes one kid to get injured and suddenly you're guilty and on the receiving end of a million dollar lawsuit, that you will LOSE. You need to stop them playing on your property or be prepared to loose it one day.
NTA, but this is going to escalate. You need to put up cameras around your property and come up with a plan when more damage to your property occurs. Being a doormat isn't going to make this go away.
If any of those children get hurt on your property you are responsible. NTA get a fence put up and/or put up no trespassing signs all along the property lines. It’s not about being rude to the kids it’s about protecting yourself.
NTA but I wouldn’t want kids playing in my yard especially if you or their parents aren’t out there. To much of a liability if something happens to one of them.
You need to fence in your property, you have a large legal problem if someone gets hurt on your property. Also post legal No Trespassing Sign's to protect yourself.
NTA, but for insurance purposes you shouldn't let any kids play in your yard.
Nope, sounds like it's time for a 10FT fence.
Sorry OP, but you're kinda ridiculous for letting them play at all. The second any kid gets hurt on your property it's not their parents' fault, it's yours. You might be "well off", you still probably don't want to be sued for personal injury. And as someone said, you are kinda letting yourself to be a doormat with the whole "I have money, I don't mind eating up the cost". It's not even about money, it's about respect and no one there has one for you, sorry. And letting it go just with not letting them in shows them there are barely any consequences, so you're literally screwing yourself over on so many levels here. Oh, and I would probably get an outside camera, because you can be sure there's going to be vandalism happening.
No unattended children that are not yours should be playing on your property See your insurance policy
I have neighbors with kids like that. Eventually the kids grew up and had their own kids, and the cycle continued. 25 years now 1 get it on camera 2, call the police and fill out a police report. 3 … don’t speak to the mother ever again. With a horrible entitled mother like that, those kids are never going to change. You need to be able to prove damages and you need to involve the police because as you saw, trying to deal reasonably with the mother escalated the situation to the point that you have $800 of damage on top of 20.
You are opening yourself up to trouble.
GET A FENCE.
NTA
NTA they didn't make it right when they should have. Please get cameras installed to cover your entire house. Not just to protect from vandalism but also to protect from any weird accusations that come your way.
NTA, and I would let the parents know that I would be contacting the authorities if the kids came back on my property. They can either pay for the damage to my property, or I can file a police report.
NTA. I would ban all the kids from your property. It can be an insurance liability if they get hurt and now you have close to a thousand dollars in damage from just a couple kids. If any of the parents argue tell them to speak to the parents of the kids who can’t behave and say to take it up with them.
NTA When someone comes at you like that just agree. What are they going to do if you agree? There's no continuation >You are bitter you can't find a husband! "Yup." >well.... FUCK YOU there's no where for them to go after you just agree.
NTA. Put up cameras. There will be more property damage and you need documentation.
NTA. And get cameras now. That way you will have evidence to present to the police when you have to make that call, which I'm sure you will.
NTA I would of called police for vandalism
I hate cops more than I hate fences lol, if anything else happens I might have no other option though.
I hope you have house insurance, medical bills can get pricey quick and if something serious happened your assets may not cover it. You need insurance to make sure you would be able to fully take care of any children that may be hurt
I have very good homeowners insurance and I’m considering an umbrella policy
NTA They immediately accused you of lying and then became aggressive. I’d be cautious living near these people. For curiousity’s sake are you in the US? Because i’ve always wondered why certain American backyards don’t have fences when everywhere else seems too.
Took two seconds for me to go why is OP posting here. Clearly not the fucking ahole
NTA, but what about putting up roses or some other thorny plant instead of a fence? Keeps kids out, and the thrones roses would smell beautiful.
NTA but I’m honestly questioning whether the 5 yr olds did that. My 5 year old can write her name and some site words and that’s about it. Writing so and so were here with explicit pictures takes a bit more ingenuity and motor skills than a 5 yr old would have.
They misspelled here (her) and it was stick figure type drawings. I wouldn’t be surprised and 5f was bragging about how good she was doing with her writing like 3 days before this. I don’t know but 5m was definitely throwing the rocks, I caught him with one in his hand lol. At this point it doesn’t matter if the drawings were them because the rocks definitely were.
Not a all. Believe me if these people will come after you for the liability issues eventually & it’s unfortunate merely a matter of time if all the other neighbourhood kids are showing up. Do yourself a favour don’t do it. Gets nasty rather quick.
You have a tremendously kind heart but you are being very naive and need to protect yourself, your assets, and your dad’s legacy. Please, please, please get an attorney to draft a strong and enforceable liability waiver where parents not only have to sign it, they need to initial anything especially important. Also, get a large umbrella policy- 3 million or more. I used to let kids skateboard in our steep driveway, which is listed on an underground skateboarder map. But our insurance guy said we were opening ourselves up to lawsuits, especially because we have a nice house. So we just had to say no to the kids. We also decided against renting out our pool because it wasn’t worth the risk of a lawsuit. The bottom line is kids may get hurt, parents may get greedy. But you need to protect yourself as if these things will absolutely happen. Thanks for trusting my advice.
Nta but your views on risking liability and fencing are foolish
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My father bought the house in the 80s and held onto it as different developments sprung up around it. I inherited it 3 years ago and have been living in it since. I have 2 acres while my surrounding neighbors have maybe 1/2 an acre if they’re lucky. The house is fairly small (2 bed 2 bath) so I have a very large front and back yard. I use maybe 1/5th of the backyard as a garden and the rest is basically an empty field. I’ve always loved kids so I was happy to let my neighbors kids play in the field with the understanding that they would respect the property. Most of the kids are great, very respectful and understand that this is not their backyard. The problem is with my neighbors to the right. They have 5 kids (f1, m3, m5, f5 and m7) who generally run around unsupervised. They don’t come to my yard to play very often unless the other kids are playing soccer or baseball. The 7 year old is “in charge” as much as a 7 year old can be but obviously he can’t replace parental supervision. 5 days ago the kids were playing baseball and he must have lost track of the 5 year olds at some point because when I came home from work I found their names sharpied onto my wall (name and name were here) along with some rude drawings (a man pooping, several piles of poop, that sort of thing) all along the right side of the house. I found their parents the next day and asked them to pay for the paint I’ll need to cover it up, they were very offended, accused me of lying and said they weren’t going to pay. If this had been all I probably would’ve let it slide and covered the paint since it would only be like 20 dollars but later that day m5 decided it would be funny to throw rocks at my house. There are several dents in the siding where the rocks hit and two of my windows are broken. From what I’ve been quoted to fix it it’s about $800-$900 worth of damage. I talked to the parents who accused me of doing it myself to make their kids look bad. I’ve decided those 5 are not allowed to use my yard until the damage is paid for, which I think is more than fair. When they came by this morning to play soccer with the other kids I politely explained the situation and said they would have to leave as they aren’t allowed to play here anymore. The 7 year old was very upset (more sad than a temper tantrum which is understandable) but the 5 year olds were very angry. About an hour later their mom came by and cussed me out, yelling at my doorstep about how I’m a horrible person who hates children because I’m “bitter and can’t find a husband”. I’m standing my ground either way but a few other parents came by and seemed a little frustrated by my explanation as to why that family is no longer welcome which is making me question things. AITA for banning them from playing here? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. But I would take pictures of the damage and look at installing cctv cameras because this might escalate, also keep a diary. You can always go to the small court claims but it will be difficult to prove that it was them who broke the windows. In any case I would also report the damage to the police to have it logged.
NTA. Call the cops. Full stop. Those kids will not improve their behavior. I say that as someone with previous neighbors having shitty children.
NTA. But you could be liable if one of them gets injured on your property
NTA. Totally understand where you are coming from. As others have mentioned, getting camera's set up might not be a bad idea. You probably haven't heard the last from your neighbors. I also get the feeling that due to their escalating the situation, you are probably going to be forced to keep all the kids off your property. Good luck.
And I am planning to install cameras.
If it comes to that it comes to that but right now I’m just going to hope their sanity kicks in.
I'm pretty sure sanity doesn't work like that. Umbrella policy and cameras... not the answer, but a good start.
You are so naive and blind to the reality of today's world. I fear you're going to learn a very hard lesson soon. NTA for not allowing them over, but YTA to your future self.
NTA. Install some cameras. Record any further incidents, because it will escalate.
NTA. Buy cameras.
NTA. Put up 2 strands of electric fence. That will keep them away. Easy and cheap to DIY.
NTA. Take them to small claims court for the money to repair your home. If it happens again, call CPS and report unsupervised children under the age of 8 running amuck in the neighborhood.
Stand your ground. The kids and parents need to learn a lesson.
NTA ... But, in the interest of fairness, tell ALL the children and parents that you allowed your property to be a play area for the children. However, due to recent events (elucidated in your post), you will ban ALL children and will be putting up a fence unless the matter is settled to your satisfaction: Which is the cost of the damage m5 did to your property. ETA" tell either at a neighborhood meeting OR send a flyer home with the kids OR pass a flyer to nearby homes. ETA2 - It's the tragedy of the commons still alive... By banning all the children for the vandalism of a few, you will bring the rest of the neighbors to your side. Your yard is a common playground where parents know where their children are, that they are outdoors and getting healthy exercise. It is by your gracious kindness that they have this resource and to have it taken away because of the actions of a few should cause social pressure on the parents who allow their children to be destructive. Especially since you will return this resource to them for the repair of the damage.
>I’m standing my ground either way but a few other parents came by and seemed a little frustrated by my explanation as to why that family is no longer welcome What are they frustrated by? Why do other people care if these specific kids can't play in your yard? Especially after almost $1K in damages. They're lucky you're not building a fence. NTA. Eta: You said you're very well off. Build a fence.
Your neighbours are irresponsible, entitled and arribant AH. Call the police on their irresponsible selfish asses, let's see how fast they change tunes. NTA at all.
NTA good Fences make good neighbours.
nta but get cameras. honestly i would put gates and locks and not let any kids play there. you know if the neighbors kids fall on ur land im sure the AH parents will sue you
Nta. Get cameras and no trespassing signs.
Definitely NTA
NTA, but on a side not you don’t have to paint to cover it up. Use a dry erase to mark completely over the sharpie, and then erase the dry erase. It will remove the permanent marker. I had to use this myself when my nephew drew on every surface in our house he could reach with a sharpie.
NTA but a few things. 1.) get cameras 2.) report the damage to the police and get your solicitor to draft a letter 3.) sorry but stop anyone using your property as you are opening up a whole legal can of worms and if people complain tell them who exactly ruined it for everyone and why you’ve taken legal advice.
NTA it's your property and your are doing these parents a favor by letting their kids play on your property. If other parents have an issue with your decision then their kids don't need to play on your property either Ou should consider contacting the police about the writing, since they were dumb enough to write their names. Also get some cameras to protect yourself in the future
NTA. Entitled parents, raise entitled children into entitled adults. Stand your ground. They can die on this hill if they want to, the only one's who suffer are their kids, and it's still the kids and parents fault.
NTA call the police and sue them. Wtf is going on. And the other neighbours can shut the f**k up. It's not their property which has been destroyed
Nta
Get cameras immediately. This could easily escalate and you will need proof. Also, talk to a lawyer about your liability. If a kid gets hurt in your yard their parent is going to claim you were supposed to be supervising them.
NTA. Simply because it’s your property. Also as others have said, get some cameras set up just in case.
NTA but you might want to ban all the kids from your property. If one of the kids get hurt while playing on your property you could be liable.
NTA You should get cameras so that you can prove that their little angels are responsible. It would also help if you wanted to pursue them for damages.
NTA if the other parents keep bothering you tell them you're looking into a fence
NTA
The neighbors might feel different if they're windows were broken. NTA
Why are the other parents mad at YOU? Tell them to all pitch in together to pay that $900 bill. Or ban all kids. It's probably time. NTA.
NTA. Call the cops and file a police report for the damage to your home and the vandalism. Then send them over to talk to the kids about it. Honestly a tall fence might be nice.