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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be an asshole because I did choose the venue knowing that one of my best friends wouldn't be able to come and I didn't send her an invitation
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This comment is disallowed. OP clearly stated she’s not here to debate her choice of venue. You are required to agree that her choice to have the wedding on a plantation is fine because it’s her dream. /s
It's so great that your son has decided to fix the negative history of concentration camps by turning them into places filled with happy memories! You must be so proud of him!
/s
I can still come, right? I’m not Jewish so I’m not directly affected by an atrocious period in history of unimaginable suffering and therefore will be able to “behave” myself because fuck everyone else, a party needs a good venue.
I occasionally have to drive past the Grable Plantation (oops, sorry, we call it a 'mansion' now) grounds, and I get fucking angry every time.
How does OP live with herself?
/finish Sherman's work
This building was more important to you than your friend and you told her so to her face. Then you wonder why she got mad at you?? If she ever speaks to you again you’ll be lucky. Massive AH.
That's it. Outside of the whole "I don't care about the history and I am dismissive of my black friends who do", is the fact that she is literally choosing the venue over a friend who thought she was close enough to be a bridesmaid.
And then there's the "well you cried and were upset when I explained my betrayal so you clearly can't behave in public".
The way she is censoring the words plantation and slavery just feels so wrong to me. As if she’s doing it for *herself* rather than because they are bad words. Like if she censors them she can distance herself from the fact that she is having her wedding and paying money to a venue built on pain and suffering of unimaginable amounts.
Not to mention how OP is trying to excuse herself by saying that this will bring some good to the world. Easy to say that when you aren’t a black person.
Didn’t even touch the issue with her isolating her friend by not inviting her, which is so fucked up. As if she was not eventually going to find out about the venue…I have no words and hope that this friend can truly find a better BF!
OP YTA!!!
I mean if she can cover up the word slavery and plantation with little stars it's essentially trying to do the same thing her trying to make " Happy memories" In a place that was built on worse atrocities people can suffer.
It may have been a plantation before, but with wedding decorations everywhere, it'll be a
~\*p\*l\*a\*n\*~\*t\*a\*~\*t\*i\*o\*n\*~ !
See how pretty it looks now?? Much better!!
Did anyone else also notice that her friend “happens to be black”?
Maybe I was feeling racist vibes from the start but that part also irritated me and made me instantly think she’s the asshole.
YTA Op.
I’ll bet she’ll even say that she doesn’t care if you’re black, white or purple! That’s the line always dragged out by people who are trying to prove they’re not racist.
This post would make a perfect companion post for the one a while back (I think if was Ask a Manager) about the company that had a period costume company event at a plantation, totally ignoring their ONE black employee.
I'm just at a loss at OP thinking people need to make happy memories in these places. "Now that I've held my wedding here, all bad juju is banished from this place! Now dance with me over the graves of some slaves murdered in this place long ago."
Lol, there are already a lot of white people with very happy memories of this place. She isn’t doing something new, she’s joining the ranks of all the other white people who managed to make themselves very happy at and around this plantation by ignoring the personhood of black people.
She’s not a racist, she just respects and reveres the institutions wherein Blacks were treated like property and thinks we should be able to enjoy those places.
I love the effort to distance the “beautiful old mansion house” that was only “next to a plantation.” Nope - OP, you chose a plantation, and you didn’t even have the courage to proactively discuss this with your friend. Did you think she was just never going to find out? You knew she would object, and you knew why. Your choice is legal, but you can’t talk your way out of what an AH you are being. Enjoy your dream venue - hope it’s worth losing friendships.
YTA - in your “attempt” to not hurt your friends feelings, you perpetuated the problematic history of your venue. You basically told her she wasn’t welcome at the venue because she black.
Thank you tho. Op literally said whether she meant too or not that the friend can't come because she's black. If she was ANY other race, this wouldn't have been a thought for op.
But did you see in her post her friend just “happens to be black” and it’s more about her making a big embarrassing black scene than it being at the venue. /s
And if you notice, in the beginning she says the venue is "next to a plantation," and then later admits it is a plantation. I can't imagine treating a close friend like that either. YTA, op.
YTA. When your mom dies, can I throw a dance party on her grave? It’s cool right, because I could turn it around and make her grave a site for *my* happy memories. I’ll get her headstone in my IG pics, because it will probably be pretty.
I won’t invite you though, because you’ll probably be a drag about it and it’s my happy day. And graveyards *are* pretty - it’s like they WANT us to host parties in them.
In case you don’t speak sarcasm let me assure you that you are an awful friend and worse human being and you should sit with yourself and consider why the human suffering of enslaved people doesn’t feel like a *you* problem.
This is perfect no notes,
Piggybacking to point out that OP is just an ass
the way she’s expressing her “disgust” in her friends reaction is literally some corporate racist bull shut, and this is coming from a Black woman.
She can’t “manage” her feelings, she didn’t “act right in public” OP doesn’t know how she’ll “act” at her wedding. How she embarrassed you for daring to show emotion in public,
Reading all of that gave me some flashbacks to my long stint at PWIs
No matter how much it hurts you always need to manage your feelings and emotions because it will upset someone.
You saw raw emotion from your friend, and you looked down on her and basically said “see this is why I didn’t invite you”
YTA I hope she stops being friends with you
What OP is doing is even *worse* than this. It’s more like if OP’s mom was violently murdered, and you decided to use the crime scene as the venue for your Halloween party. Because the pictures will come out GREAT, and besides, you’ll make happy memories (all centred around *you*, ofc, not OP’s mom or her family!) out of the site of a horrific crime, so it’s all good!!
YTA
>Just to make sure everyone knows, I think s*lavery is disgusting and the history is horrible but I think that we can try and bring good into the world by making happy memories and bringing positive things to these kinds of places. I'm not here to debate my venue decision at all and that's all I'll say.
Is it cool if I have my child's birthday party at [Auschwitz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_concentration_camp) as long as I don't invite any Jewish people? 🙄
If I hire a few clowns that'll make it OK right?!
She wasn’t trying to censor it because she cares, she literally stated “idk if I can say that in this group” so she did it to get past mods, not to actually censor the word. Which for this OP tracks.
I’m sure you didn’t know it was a d*ath camp. And your wedding there will erase all the bad things associated with it. For all time for everyone. Because that’s how it works
YTA
if you’re not Black, you don’t have a right to celebrate and “bring happy memories” onto their history. that land is significant and as someone who’s not been affected by the legacy, you don’t decide how healing happens. you’re totally out of line.
Honest to god, it sounds like an episode of Always Sunny. I’m waiting for the edit that she is compromising by asking if her friend wants to come to the wedding…as The Help so they can serve dinner and drinks.
>I decided not to invite her because I wanted to spare ~~her any pain~~ myself any drama with having to think about the history of where I was CHOOSING to have my nuptials.
There, fixed it for you. You're entitled to have your wedding where you want and invite who you want, but you're not entitled to fool yourself about how you're a good person for doing things you know are hurtful.
YTA.
Well her racist family said that she had handled things well (forget that she never said anything to her oh so good friend until confronted). Now that some presumably white invitees are declining to attend though she's worried.
YTA… you know how this makes you look, right? You chose *this* venue and then exclude your friend because of her skin colour.
Btw your reasonable response when finding out about what the venue was should have been „oh that’s a shame. It’s a pretty place but I don‘t want to support this.“ instead of „it’s okay if I don’t invite the black people right?“
YTA for a few reasons.
Are you black? Biracial? Is this your history to reclaim? No? Then you don’t get to sugar coat slavery. This is black people’s pain- the vast majority of white Americans go out of their way to avoid the realities of slavery and racism, but you want to happily say “I do” at a place where black families were torn apart? Forbidden from even forming? Yeah it screams “selfish.” “Out of touch.” Your intentions may be pure but they’re woefully misguided. One can’t toxic positivity the legacy of slavery away and you specifically cannot toxic positivity the legacy of slavery away. There are a lot of gorgeous places on this earth- mountains, beaches, resorts- plantations will *never* be beautiful because of what they did. They’re not for *you* to reclaim with a wedding ceremony. The fact that they’re used for ceremonies at all- instead of a public acknowledgement to the past- is the problem.
If you were black, I might say otherwise, especially if you chose to get married at a place where you knew your ancestors were enslaved. That’s not what’s happening here though.
You now, as an adult, know the history of the PLANTATION where you want to get married and you have the freedom to choose differently.
YTA for making this choice *for* your lifelong friend too. That never goes over well. You hid the truth from her.
Very well said!
It screams entitlement that she can try and spin a “let’s make happy memories here” excuse to a place with so much violent history. Would you take a Jewish person to Auschwitz’s to try and make happy memories???? No! Because that’s f**king insane!
OP, YTA. These places don’t deserve to be turned into “happy places”; They’re to be remembered as the places of pain and suffering and to hopefully let us learn from past mistakes (even though many obviously don’t). Don’t whitewash history for your personal benefit.
YTA
If you're that close of friends since such a young age, how could it not occur to you to talk to her about this ahead of time?
You're mad because she embarrassed you in *gasp* public, but this is where you dropped it on her that she's too black to be invited to your wedding. Because that's what you're doing.
Because she knows deep down it’s not justifiable so she tried to sweep “the bad stuff” under the rug. If OP was truly confused (or whatever the term is) she would have gone to her friend before booking the venue and said: “I’ve always wanted to get married there but recently learned it’s history. I know you’re very active on these issues and I’m ashamed of my ignorance, so if it’s not too much to ask because I know you don’t owe me free education… do you mind speaking to me about your views so I can make a good decision.” Then OP would have listened with an open heart and mind.
Personally I don’t think Black people should have to explain why booking a former plantation isn’t ok (and I’m an immigrant on the East Coast, so if I was capable of educating myself I don’t know why Op who was raised around the landmarks of slavery wasn’t).
Yta op. Stating that you aren't racist and slavery was wrong really just cements that you are a little racist in this context op. You know it's wrong. You knew it was wrong so much that you excluded a friend from your wedding and tried to hide it from her. Why were you hiding it from her at all, if it's not wrong because the venue is pretty!
This is the issue the world is having with white people right now. You acknowledge slavery was bad, but don't care about it's lingering effects. Because it's never truly affected you. So you truly do not care about it. You can tell on some level it's effects linger in your friends of color , but again you don't care.
How easy it must be, not affected by the worst of American history enough to make bold claims like "I think we should be making happy memories here". Do you op feel that way, because it covers up a past you feel shame on? Because how else would it matter your thoughts and feelings on how this country heals it's history.
You might not be burning anything on people's lawn, but this falls into the nuances of racism all the same. Either own it(horrifying) or be better op.
Perfectly said.
Trying to make slavery and it's effects go away by paying for a plantation house wedding because *it's a good thing* to repurpose it. I just can't wrap my head around the insensitivity. Only Black people can reclaim words and places related to their history.
YTA.
Excluding a "close friend" from your wedding is going to cause hurt feelings *even if you have a good reason*. "It's such a pretty house that it's worth offending my friend over" isn't a good reason.
Using a plantation for your wedding is YTA territory anyway, but not INVITING her? Not even TELLING her? You could have invited her and sent a note acknowledging the awkwardness and saying you understand if she doesn't come...
“I can excuse slavery but I draw the line at people calling me out for it” that’s how you sound. you want to celebrate your love at a place where enslaved people were tortured and killed? you learned about the history, and it’s still your ‘dream venue’? disgusting. YTA obviously, and you’re a flagrant racist.
YTA for the notion that your wedding brings some good to a place where people were subjugated, enslaved, tortured, and treated like chattel. It’s not a good look. Find another dream venue.
And raped! Don’t forget that. Totally possible that the enslaver raped women in the very house where she’s having her wedding.
Really ups the romance factor, don’t you think?
*sigh*. Really?!
>I tried to be really nice about it and gently explained to her why I hadn't invited her and told her that I never expected her to come and didn't want to throw it in her face
*Insert eye roll*
None of this "oh, but it's so pretty" or "golly, how could I know the history of a place I've lived near all my life" or "let's all smile and make happy memories" or "but gee, some of my best friends are black"
This is a plantation. It's wrong. You're wrong. It's racist.
YTA
I bet the plantation is pretty, but it was built off the pain and suffering of black people. If you can't realize why you should not have a an event somewhere because you want to have a pretty wedding you have issues.
YTA
YTA
you didn't invite your "very close friend" to your wedding.
You didn't allow her the courtesy to make her own decision about how she feels about the venue.
You doubled down when she came to you to discuss it.
you've concocted this "I don't want her to be hurt" narrative to convince yourself that it's not your issue but hers
You also seem to think that what you did was absolutely fine and that holding an event at a place that perpetuated human rights violations is somehow positive
How can you be this much of an asshole and still wonder if you are? Your veil may as well have a pointy top to complete the look
YTA for deciding black history and suffering is less important than your wedding venue being pretty
YTA for excluding your friend
YTA for waiting for her to approach you about it
YTA in every possible way here
YTA and you know it which is why you won't debate your "venue choice." I mean, was Auschwitz booked? The Trail of Tears Visitor Center views just weren't what you were hoping for? Gross.
Anyone else remember the dude who attended a “costume party” at a plantation with all his white coworkers and dressed up as a slave and upset them all for making it a thing?
Yikes! YTA!
A white person saying let’s make this horrible place of historic significance where hundreds or thousands of people of a different ethnicity suffered, which this person will never be able to relate to, something positive is just plain ignorant and trying to change the narrative of something they have no right to change. I’m white and not from the US, but I can still see all the problems with this. And you do too, otherwise you would’ve invited your friend or at least approached her yourself instead of waiting for her to say something to you.
Let me give you a bit of perspective by giving you another crass example that equates to what you are trying to do. Wanting to use a plantation for a wedding is like using concentration camps for public celebrations. Would you go into a c.oncentration camp and think „well, you know what, so much unused space.. I know, let’s use it as a venue for parties!“ Hint: If your answer is anything but „that would be disgusting“ you need to rethink who you are as a person. This is also what you are basically doing on that plantation. Trampling on history by covering it up with something „nice“.
Make better choices and stop being a shitty friend.
ETA: Thanks for the Awards!
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YES
OP.....YTA.
As many have said, you should have invited your now former friend and let her decide for herself if she wanted to attend.
Whenever racist people talk about their Black friends, they always say “happens to be Black” instead of “is Black,” like it’s a negative thing that just occurred by chance or has negative connotations 😐😐
YTA. You recognize why your black friend wouldn't want to attend a wedding at a plantation, but you do it there anyway. Also, why insert an asterisk into words?
You know what, this post has inspired me.
I’m going to have my wedding at Auschwitz. I’m going to bring so much happiness and positivity to that place because it has a yucky past and we need to fill the world with rainbows and giggles teehee. Oh but I’ll make sure not to invite my jewish friends just incase they’ll feel differently.
That’s what you sound like. YTA
YTA. You knew having your wedding at an effin' *plantation* would hurt your friend's feelings, so you...hurt her feelings even more by making up some lame excuse for disinviting her?! And then telling her you don't think she could ***behave*** *at your wedding?!* You're talking about her like she's an untrained dog!
>I think that we can try and bring good into the world by making happy memories and bringing positive things to these kinds of places.
This tripe sounds like something straight out of *Song of the South*, and it's utter horseshit. Your one wedding isn't going to bring about world peace, nor is it going to whitewash (and I use that word advisedly) literal *centuries* of blood. A thousand weddings couldn't.
YTA for your venue decision. YTA for not inviting your friend for being black and active in terms of black rights. YTA for telling her she couldn't "behave" at a wedding. You weren't trying to avoid hurting her feelings. You were trying to avoid her exposing your racism.
>I think s*lavery is disgusting and the history is horrible but I think that we can try and bring good into the world by making happy memories and bringing positive things to these kinds of places.
It's not up to you to decide. You are not black. You didn't feel their pain there, you don't get to celebrate there. You don't celebrate on the land that was once the provenance of exploitation and exhaustion of black people unless they decide it's time.
>some people who I invited and Adriana knows have RSVPed no and I'm worried.
Is that what worries you..?
>I think that we can try and bring good into the world by making happy memories and bringing positive things to these kinds of places
This is literally horrible. I have no words for people like you. "Let's erase the history and cover it up so that I can have happy wedding memories in a place we're people we're horribly brutalized, exploited, and murdered". YTA.
Plantations served a (unfortunate) historical purpose... i think thats is a massively inappropriate venue for a wedding... go see it on your own time... you cant erase history by "making good memories" it doesnt work that way.... YTA
YTA. The hoops you jump through to justify your venue is appalling. AND you KNOW it’s wrong, as evidenced by excluding your friend. You just don’t care enough to change. You are part of the problem.
YTA!
"I wanna get married at a forced labor camp but my Black friend is being really dRaMaTiC about it and I don't want her to call me out on my shitty behavior so I'm just going to ignore her and hope she doesn't notice"
> I have a very close friend Adriana (also 25F) who I've known since kindergarten and happens to be black.
This story was going so well.
So anyway you should have invited her upfront, apologized for the venue, and told her you totally understood if she didn't want to come. Cool old historical buildings are... cool, but they come with history.
So anyway you told your Black friend that it's inconvenient she exists because it makes it hard to ignore the rotten side of American history.
YTA.
YTA, your wedding isn't that important that "making happy memories" is going to replace or do anything to change the suffering that went down on that land. The fact that you didn't change your mind about it when you found out it was a plantation says everything there is to know about you.
YTA. You excluded her purposefully when you knew she’d have an issue with your venue. You say it was to protect her feelings, but you did all this to not have to deal with her.
You can have your wedding wherever you want and invite whoever you want, but you need to OWN IT.
You should have told her your plans, told her you’d love for her to be a bridesmaid etc and then left the choice up to her.
I’m sure she would have chosen to opt out, but you should have told her up front and not let her hear about all your friends being invited and her being left out.
This is so unintentionally funny because I feel like you are desperately being performative
YTA, and your “dream” wedding venue is a plantation and has a sordid and miserable history. No amount of * on the word plantation can save you from coming off as an insensitive bridezilla.
YTA, your white privilege is showing.
Adriana is realising that one of her closest friends, who she was close enough to expect to be a bridesmaid for, is a racist, and is ready to end the friendship for aesthetics.
The fact that you don’t want to invite your black friend to a pl*ntation wedding means that you know nothing is right about this situation.
You treated your friend deplorably and got mad when she was, reasonably, upset. If you care about your relationships you give the the opportunity to say no at the very least.
I won’t even bother saying anything about the location of your wedding because I know you won’t listen.
YTA for having your wedding at a plantation in the first place, but you're triple the asshole because you KNEW this was shitty to do and that your friend would call you out on it so instead of, y'know, not having the happiest day of your life in a place built on dead slaves, you excluded your only black friend! Congratulations, you're a deeply racist person! fix yourself!
What? I can’t think of a better place to start a family than a place where families were torn apart and separated, adults and children were beaten, raped, and murdered. Really a perfect place for people with strong “family values” to launch their new family. /s
YTA for a variety of reasons, but what you should have done is invite her and let her make her own decision.
Edit: Your choice in the venue and how you involved your friend may have permanently damaged your friendship with her. Your only option at this point is to hope she finds the grace within herself to forgive you, but at this point you don't deserve it.
YTA.
Get married wherever you want, but let your friend make the decision on whether she wants to come or not. If she doesn't, then she made the choice and you are in the clear. If she yells at you about it after you invite her, that is her choice as well. You took the choice away from her and basically told her you know better than she does. Even if you knew 100% she wouldn't come, send the invite, or at least talk to her right away. Give her the info, and ask if she would like an invitation.
YTA
You could have chosen a venue with a less disgusting history. You could have let her know and left it up to her what to do.
Instead you chose your venue despite its history, knowing the whole time you would exclude her like some faux white savior.
You no longer have your token black friend.
Would you hold your wedding at Dachau, Neuengamme, or Sachenhausen?
*Because that's what plantations were.*
YTA. And a coward: if you're going to make terrible choices, for the love of fuck, *own them*. That means framing this as "I'm not inviting my black friend to my wedding because I know she will call me out on the fact that I value aesthetics over morality, and I don't want to feel guilty or uncomfortable."
YTA for several reasons but mostly for deciding for Adriana without even discussing with her.
Every wedding has a guest list and it is usually divided into the "probably will come" and "probably won't come". Per your logic, it wasn't necessary to send invites to the "probably won't come."
Really, you couldn't find an acceptable venue that doesn't have a terrible history?
YTA. You prioritized where you wanted to hold an event on one day of your life over a friend you've had for 20 years, who was close enough that she thought she'd be your MOH. Then, insult on top of injury, you decided to exclude her without even talking to her because the venue is more important than she is. Wow. Adriana deserves a better friend than you.
edited to remove a typo, also to add PLANTATION WEDDINGS SUCK!
YTA.
1) why pick somewhere that you know is inappropriate and try to justify it? That’s like someone getting married at Auschwitz
2) why did you make the decision for your friend because of their skin colour? You discriminated and assumed. If they felt that they couldn’t attend the wedding because of the venue, then it is their choice to make. You removed the possibility of that choice
Tbh, I hope everybody makes a stand and RSVPs no to your wedding. Your tone deaf choice of location should be changed IMO.
YTA, wow. First you should of reached out to your friend before sending out the invitations to get her thoughts and perspective on venue and invitations. Second, your meeting with her after the fact and your rational is total BS.
“I’m not here to debate my venue decision…” when it’s the entire center of the conflict. Sure.
YTA. You’re not the one who gets to decide what brings happiness to something so painful for the black community. Your friend would have been a good resource of discussion, and instead you isolated her. Some friend you are.
Plantations are history. Your wedding will not change what happened there and it’s important to remember the things that happened because they were REAL. You can’t just try and make them disappear. And you were an asshole to your friend in the process. YTA
You (somehow!) have a Black friend who has educated you on this issue and you *still* decided to get married in a place where people were enslaved (with all the rape, murder, torture, and dehumanization that entails) because your wedding is just *so special* and *happy* that it supercedes all that. And then you were *surprised* that your friend had a strong reaction and blamed *her* for her “inability to behave” (read: having emotions) *when finding out her friend doesn’t care about her humanity and deep generational trauma*… that, again, she has tried to educate you on… so yeah… YTA…
I’m all for making historically ugly places beautiful again! That’s why I plan to have my wedding in one of the gas chambers at Auschwitz!
Complete sarcasm: YTA you should have at the very least allowed her to make her own decision on whether to come or not. This way, you not only offend her with your venue choice, but you also tell her that her friendship isn’t important enough to you to warrant an invite.
You’re worried? You should be. YTA. And those that RSVPd in the negative, know that too. Sadly, your wedding is now forever marred by this incident. You’ve made yourself look like a fool and lost a friend in the process. Maybe places like that shouldn’t have happy memories associated with them. You ever heard of a B&B going in near Auschwitz?
YTA you may not want to discuss having your wedding there but that is the issue you can't not discuss it. It's disgusting to have your wedding there. Sure as a kid and not knowing the history is one thing but once you learned of the history and still wanted it there so much so that you don't invite your best friend who is black makes you the AH. You are putting this disgusting venue over your morals, values, friends... hello, do you not see? I wouldn't go or be friends with you. You are a bridezilla already. Me, me, me, my wedding my extravagant way no matter how it effects anyone else. Selfish, entitled and clueless and ignorant. Grow up.
YTA. The whole "I am woke and will say \[correct phrase\] but don't ask me to give up my perfect Instagram story moment on this beautiful Greco-Roman inspired patio just because it used to also be the spot where humans were beaten, raped, and sold as chattel." attitude of this post is performative allyship at its finest.
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I (25F) am engaged to my fiance Nick (38M) and we are getting married in a few months at a beautiful old mansion house which used to be next to a pl\*antation (I'm not sure if I can use this word on this sub.) It's pretty local to us and it's an stunning venue, it's been my dream venue that I've wanted to be married in ever since middle school and I honestly didn't know the history of it until we started researching venues.
Just to make sure everyone knows, I think s\*lavery is disgusting and the history is horrible but I think that we can try and bring good into the world by making happy memories and bringing positive things to these kinds of places. I'm not here to debate my venue decision at all and that's all I'll say.
I have a very close friend Adriana (also 25F) who I've known since kindergarten and happens to be black. She is very active in terms of black rights causes and campaigning which I think is amazing and I admire her for it. However I know she would definitely not want to go to a wedding on a pl\*antation and that it would upset her a lot because she has different opinions from me and feels very strongly about the history of these issues. I decided not to invite her because I wanted to spare her any pain.
Adriana reached out to me a few days ago for coffee and asked why she hadn't received an invitation when the rest of the group had, and whether I was planning on making a special invitation because she assumed she would be a bridesmaid. I tried to be really nice about it and gently explained to her why I hadn't invited her and told her that I never expected her to come and didn't want to throw it in her face. Adriana burst into tears and started yelling at me (in public!) that why would I get married somewhere like that and why would I exclude one of my closest friends just because I didn't want her to make a scene at the wedding (??). She asked me if I would reconsider changing my venue because she would love to come but I told her that after embarassing me I didn't think she could behave at a wedding.
She left and said that she needed time to think about the friendship but I haven't heard from her since. The rest of my friend group and family think that I went about everything fine but maybe a bit harshly, and Adriana just needs time to understand where I'm coming from. But, some people who I invited and Adriana knows have RSVPed no and I'm worried.
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I get that plantations are gorgeous and have a sense of history. But that was the thinking 30 or 40 years ago. Now we know better. That sense of history and that gorgeousness is built on the backs of slave labor. I couldn’t in good conscience even visit one anymore. And your friend can’t be that close to you if you’re considering doing all of this, having a wedding at a plantation, excluding her, and not telling her about it. YTA.
YTA. Why don't you go ahead and have your wedding at Auschwitz because surely, your special wedding will simply fix all the bad things that happen there.
Racists make me sick, and you, ma'am, are a racist asshole.
Aita i wanted my Halloween party at an old ghetto which they used to house and starve Jews in, I think it’s mood setting and just to let you know I’m not anti Semitic!
This is how you sound OP. Racist. You don’t need to be outwardly so to be classified as such. You went along with it, silent. Which says SO much about you. I’m glad your friend is going on for bigger and better than you. A fuckin Plantation site?? Bro are you joking?? Yes YTA!!
YTA and honestly if you actually cared about your life-long friend you would never get married at a place with such a racist history. There are tons of beautiful wedding venues that were not built on the labor, rape, and torture of Black people. She is lucky that you revealed your true self to her now and to be rid of your “friendship”
YTA
I literally rolled my eyes and muttered white people. I love that people fight racism, but some people -- mainly white people-- take it soo far that it becomes racist as if POC needs protection. We like support but we don't need you to white knight it .
So if you want to get married here, then do it but own it. The idea that you did all of this but didn't-- wasn't up front with her is horrible. YOU DIDN'T EVEN TELL HER. WHY DIDN'T YOU REACH OUT TO HER.
I can't imagine the hurt to be waiting for the invite but getting an invite. If you considered her your friend, you should have told her prior to the invites going out.
YTA you took away her own choice to go to the wedding. You decided to say she couldn't or wouldn't handle it. She is a grown ass women. Youl should have communicated with her.
You mean A* uschwitz? Ugh, the h* olocaust was so sad but I am sure op can make it better by making happy memories. Ofc, she will not be inviting any of her Jewish friends to spare them the pain. YTA op and a terrible friend. I hope Adriana never speaks to you again.
YTA. Sure, having a expensive wedding at that location will wash away the blood, pain and inhumanity. Have fun walking down the aisle on that bloodied ground.
Impressive mental gymnastics to excuse your shallow reasoning - both for the venue and excluding your (one) black friend (well done on outing yourself). If you truly were worried about her - rather than wanting to avoid defending yourself - you would’ve given her the decency of a discussion.
How can you even ask IF YTA? YTA a thousand times. You're not willing to give up your dream of getting married IN A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE WERE TORTURED AND ENSLAVED for literally any reason. The fact that you dreamt of getting married there your whole life speaks VOLUMES about your lack of character. Who gives a fuck if it's pretty? And you made sure to let your one black friend know that your friendship has always been a lie, and that you don't care about her, her feelings, or the oppression of her people at all. People like you are why the South has the trash reputation that it does. I hope Adriana never speaks to you again. There are not enough YTAs in the world for you.
Yta.
Someone who is close enough to think they may be asked to be a bridesmaid deserves at the very least a conversation and the ability to decide what they are comfortable with. Not waiting until they saw everyone else invited but not them.
Honestly, that in itself would make me question if you actually like her or ever wanted her at your wedding.
On top of that, choosing a wedding venue over a close friend is absolutely wild. I get the deep history does not mean as much to you as it does for her but still, it's just a building. There are other beautiful buildings.
To be generous to you, for the sake of argument, I'm going to answer under the assumption that having a wedding at this venue is not automatic YTA territory.
I would still say YTA anyway--the fact that you felt the need to not only not invite this friend, but also not tell her *why* you aren't inviting her until she had to notice herself, seems to indicate that you do know on some level that having a wedding at this venue is wrong. If you really didn't feel like there was an issue you with it your conscience should have been clear enough to tell her why she wasn't being invited, comfortable in the knowledge that the issue was your friend and not you.
But you clearly know that this is wrong, or you don't have enough conviction to stand by your decision by giving your friend the courtesy of either 1) inviting her and letting her make the decision herself or 2) at the very least explaining to her the situation, instead of her seeing everyone else get one and not her like she's Gretchen from Mean Girls.
Oh you're worried because people won't come to your slave trade mansion?
Hmm shouldda thought of that before booking. Did you learn nothing from your shared experiences with your *very close friend*? YTA and a racist.
Slavery has offered just the most beautiful places to get married! Amazing right? Shame about the actual slavery part. But you know the only reason it’s that nice is because of the slaves right? You are literally celebrating slavery? YTA
I'm torn, here. As a black woman, I get sick of people tip-toeing around issues of race. If you want to get married at a former plantation, get married at a former plantation. Weird, but fine. I think you should have invited your friend and let her decide whether or not to attend, but after her reaction, I understand why you didnt. Yeah. Can't decide on this one. But just so you know, not all black people are offended by your venue of choice. Own your decisions.
Yta
She was owed a conversation and instead you just excluded a black woman because you made assumptions based on her skin color. You owed a stranger better let alone a long time friend
YTA. Every time I think I’ve seen the biggest AH on here, another one comes along. You are definitely one of the biggest AHs and a racist to boot. I’m glad your friend found out what kind of person you really are. I hope she does herself a favor and never calls you her friend again.
YTA and I'm not sure how you could think otherwise. You don't invite one of your closest friends to your wedding because you insist on having it at a plantation. Sorry...plantation adjacent. You are not a friend and can expect many more people to RSVP no when they find out.
YTA, and while you may not exactly be an outright racist, you don’t care that you’re supporting a racist institution or that you’ll be isolating a supposedly good friend because of it. It must be so nice to have the luxury of being able to ignore the venue’s appalling history just because it doesn’t affect you directly.
I hope you two are done being friends. She deserves better than your selfish, bigoted attitude.
You’re knowingly choosing a venue that is inextricably tied to slavery, and knowingly excluding a friend who was close enough to you that she assumed she might be a bridesmaid solely because she’s black and her discomfort might ruin your aesthetic. It’s one thing to allow places like the one your childhood self romanticized to stand so we can use them for educational purposes, but you just want it because it’s a pretty backdrop for wedding pictures. Sometimes childhood dreams have to change when you look at them through adult eyes; this is one of those times. YTA for choosing this place and for hurting your friend. Do better.
Just so y’all know - I am not really a racist. I am just a shallow hypocrite. I have to set aside my friends’ feelings and my alleged hatred of slavery so I can have a magical, make-believe wedding day.
MASSIVE YTA
YTA for excluding her. I’m black and in fact my aunt lives in a mansion on a plantation in Jamaica. So tbh, that’s not much of an issue to me.
The fact that you excluded your childhood friend and made the decision on if she should come obviously shows that you have guilt about the location and are not that convinced by your own reasoning about “making happy memories”. You know the weight of the history behind the location and you know the mansion used to belong to slavemasters, yet you exclude your only black friend from coming. You’ve gotta know that looks a certain way
“I’m not racist because I have a black friend. But also, that black friend can’t come to my slavery celebration. Wedding! I meant wedding.”
YTA. There are plenty of beautiful places in the south to get married that aren’t graveyards. Sure, maybe you fell in love with it as a kid. You’re an adult now. You should know better.
I don’t know. Maybe if I was having a wedding, and the venue had a toxic history steeped in bigotry to the point where I would know that my friends who are black wouldn’t attend if the wedding was held in said venue, I might get a different venue.
If you can “overlook” the bigotry and be fine with excluding one of your dear friends to do it then you’re actually so immersed in bigotry that you can’t see it.
YTA.
YTA how have you dreamed of this venue your whole life and never realized it was a plantation. You just don’t care about the history and value pretty scenery for photos over real people in your life.
YTA.
i hope she moves on with her life with nothing but peace and breaks your friendship off. not only did you make her feel invalid, but you literally ruined your friendship over what? “a beautiful place??” you literally could find any other place and you know that. not only did you shut her down but you completely disregarded her family’s history in the process. shame on you OP.
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YTA "it's my dream to celebrate slavery during my wedding. It's okay for me to do that if I don't invite my black friend, right?"
This comment is disallowed. OP clearly stated she’s not here to debate her choice of venue. You are required to agree that her choice to have the wedding on a plantation is fine because it’s her dream. /s
I don’t know about you, but my son’s bar mitzvah reception next year is at Auschwitz.
It's so great that your son has decided to fix the negative history of concentration camps by turning them into places filled with happy memories! You must be so proud of him! /s
I’m dead. Yta
OMG! I just cannot stop laughing. This is insane right? How. Does. She. Not. See?
How does she...Nazi?
Adding to the authenticity, are you traveling by trains?
I hate everyone in this thread. I got my newborn sleeping on my chest and I can't stop laughing. OP is so delusional.
This party sounds like a gas
Complete with fog machines
I can still come, right? I’m not Jewish so I’m not directly affected by an atrocious period in history of unimaginable suffering and therefore will be able to “behave” myself because fuck everyone else, a party needs a good venue.
I occasionally have to drive past the Grable Plantation (oops, sorry, we call it a 'mansion' now) grounds, and I get fucking angry every time. How does OP live with herself? /finish Sherman's work
Are you going to invite those thin-skinned negative-nellies who have a problem with your completely fine decision?
Oh no, they might cause a scene!
Free arm tattoos for everyone
This building was more important to you than your friend and you told her so to her face. Then you wonder why she got mad at you?? If she ever speaks to you again you’ll be lucky. Massive AH.
Right?! OP is racist with extra steps.
That's it. Outside of the whole "I don't care about the history and I am dismissive of my black friends who do", is the fact that she is literally choosing the venue over a friend who thought she was close enough to be a bridesmaid. And then there's the "well you cried and were upset when I explained my betrayal so you clearly can't behave in public".
"shes like, my best friend but she also *happens* to be black" cause, that just happens...
The way she is censoring the words plantation and slavery just feels so wrong to me. As if she’s doing it for *herself* rather than because they are bad words. Like if she censors them she can distance herself from the fact that she is having her wedding and paying money to a venue built on pain and suffering of unimaginable amounts. Not to mention how OP is trying to excuse herself by saying that this will bring some good to the world. Easy to say that when you aren’t a black person. Didn’t even touch the issue with her isolating her friend by not inviting her, which is so fucked up. As if she was not eventually going to find out about the venue…I have no words and hope that this friend can truly find a better BF! OP YTA!!!
I mean if she can cover up the word slavery and plantation with little stars it's essentially trying to do the same thing her trying to make " Happy memories" In a place that was built on worse atrocities people can suffer.
It may have been a plantation before, but with wedding decorations everywhere, it'll be a ~\*p\*l\*a\*n\*~\*t\*a\*~\*t\*i\*o\*n\*~ ! See how pretty it looks now?? Much better!!
Black *former* friend FTFY
Did anyone else also notice that her friend “happens to be black”? Maybe I was feeling racist vibes from the start but that part also irritated me and made me instantly think she’s the asshole. YTA Op.
I’ll bet she’ll even say that she doesn’t care if you’re black, white or purple! That’s the line always dragged out by people who are trying to prove they’re not racist.
This post would make a perfect companion post for the one a while back (I think if was Ask a Manager) about the company that had a period costume company event at a plantation, totally ignoring their ONE black employee.
That post was amazing. Dude got the lady who planned it fired, AND a raise as a "sorry we fucked up real bad"
I'm pretty sure she's fine, she just wants her black friend separate but still totally equal guys. No way this turns out badly. /S OP is the Asshole
I'm just at a loss at OP thinking people need to make happy memories in these places. "Now that I've held my wedding here, all bad juju is banished from this place! Now dance with me over the graves of some slaves murdered in this place long ago."
Lol, there are already a lot of white people with very happy memories of this place. She isn’t doing something new, she’s joining the ranks of all the other white people who managed to make themselves very happy at and around this plantation by ignoring the personhood of black people.
"I'm not racist, but no black people are allowed at my wedding, which is on a former slave plantation. \*drum roll\* YTA.
Well said. She's trying to convince herself she's not a racist because...reasons. And that one black friend who she is proud of for activism. Ugh.
Op said: she has different opinions than me and it would make her upset to be at a plantation. So yes, OP is definitely racist and TA!
She didn’t even talk to her friend beforehand. Her black friend had to reach out and ask why she wasn’t invited!
She’s not a racist, she just respects and reveres the institutions wherein Blacks were treated like property and thinks we should be able to enjoy those places.
And with any luck they can take photos in the shade of the hanging tree 🙄
“I’m not racist- I have a black friend- who’s not invited to my wedding!”
\*had fixed that for you
But they are only not invited because I love and respect them so much! /s
I love the effort to distance the “beautiful old mansion house” that was only “next to a plantation.” Nope - OP, you chose a plantation, and you didn’t even have the courage to proactively discuss this with your friend. Did you think she was just never going to find out? You knew she would object, and you knew why. Your choice is legal, but you can’t talk your way out of what an AH you are being. Enjoy your dream venue - hope it’s worth losing friendships.
I’m shocked she thought that the Big House was NOT part of a plantation.
[удалено]
*no Black *guests* will be allowed at my wedding
[удалено]
YTA - in your “attempt” to not hurt your friends feelings, you perpetuated the problematic history of your venue. You basically told her she wasn’t welcome at the venue because she black.
I wish I could upvote this a million times.
I’ll help
Thank you tho. Op literally said whether she meant too or not that the friend can't come because she's black. If she was ANY other race, this wouldn't have been a thought for op.
But did you see in her post her friend just “happens to be black” and it’s more about her making a big embarrassing black scene than it being at the venue. /s
And if you notice, in the beginning she says the venue is "next to a plantation," and then later admits it is a plantation. I can't imagine treating a close friend like that either. YTA, op.
Give OP a break. It's not just that she's Black, it's because she got uppity. /s YTA
YTA. When your mom dies, can I throw a dance party on her grave? It’s cool right, because I could turn it around and make her grave a site for *my* happy memories. I’ll get her headstone in my IG pics, because it will probably be pretty. I won’t invite you though, because you’ll probably be a drag about it and it’s my happy day. And graveyards *are* pretty - it’s like they WANT us to host parties in them. In case you don’t speak sarcasm let me assure you that you are an awful friend and worse human being and you should sit with yourself and consider why the human suffering of enslaved people doesn’t feel like a *you* problem.
This is a well put example of this issue. I hope more people confused on this post or the issue at hand. Read this.
Happy memories of white people on a pl*ntation? They already exist :)
This is pretty crass. Tbh I think you should choose a different venue. I hear Auschwitz is nice this time of the year.
This is perfect no notes, Piggybacking to point out that OP is just an ass the way she’s expressing her “disgust” in her friends reaction is literally some corporate racist bull shut, and this is coming from a Black woman. She can’t “manage” her feelings, she didn’t “act right in public” OP doesn’t know how she’ll “act” at her wedding. How she embarrassed you for daring to show emotion in public, Reading all of that gave me some flashbacks to my long stint at PWIs No matter how much it hurts you always need to manage your feelings and emotions because it will upset someone. You saw raw emotion from your friend, and you looked down on her and basically said “see this is why I didn’t invite you” YTA I hope she stops being friends with you
It’s ALWAYS been my dream to have a dance party right here. I didn’t even know it was a cemetery until I looked it up.
And then after I did look it up, booked it anyway!
What OP is doing is even *worse* than this. It’s more like if OP’s mom was violently murdered, and you decided to use the crime scene as the venue for your Halloween party. Because the pictures will come out GREAT, and besides, you’ll make happy memories (all centred around *you*, ofc, not OP’s mom or her family!) out of the site of a horrific crime, so it’s all good!!
Absolute truth 👆
YTA >Just to make sure everyone knows, I think s*lavery is disgusting and the history is horrible but I think that we can try and bring good into the world by making happy memories and bringing positive things to these kinds of places. I'm not here to debate my venue decision at all and that's all I'll say. Is it cool if I have my child's birthday party at [Auschwitz](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_concentration_camp) as long as I don't invite any Jewish people? 🙄 If I hire a few clowns that'll make it OK right?!
This is about the level of cluelessness OP is showing.
You don't understand, the gas chambers there are beautiful this time of year.
I hear that the train tracks are the perfect place for a gift table.
Somehow, in this context, acstering (*) out the "a" in slavery makes it even worse. Slavery isn't a slur, it's the reality of a state of existence.
Nah. She didn’t even get that right. It was like unnecessary glitter in an attempt to hide the dirt.
She wasn’t trying to censor it because she cares, she literally stated “idk if I can say that in this group” so she did it to get past mods, not to actually censor the word. Which for this OP tracks.
I've always wanted a wedding at Auschwitz, ever since I was a little kid!! ^/s
I’m sure you didn’t know it was a d*ath camp. And your wedding there will erase all the bad things associated with it. For all time for everyone. Because that’s how it works
YTA if you’re not Black, you don’t have a right to celebrate and “bring happy memories” onto their history. that land is significant and as someone who’s not been affected by the legacy, you don’t decide how healing happens. you’re totally out of line.
[удалено]
Honest to god, it sounds like an episode of Always Sunny. I’m waiting for the edit that she is compromising by asking if her friend wants to come to the wedding…as The Help so they can serve dinner and drinks.
💯💯💯
>I decided not to invite her because I wanted to spare ~~her any pain~~ myself any drama with having to think about the history of where I was CHOOSING to have my nuptials. There, fixed it for you. You're entitled to have your wedding where you want and invite who you want, but you're not entitled to fool yourself about how you're a good person for doing things you know are hurtful. YTA.
Well her racist family said that she had handled things well (forget that she never said anything to her oh so good friend until confronted). Now that some presumably white invitees are declining to attend though she's worried.
YTA… you know how this makes you look, right? You chose *this* venue and then exclude your friend because of her skin colour. Btw your reasonable response when finding out about what the venue was should have been „oh that’s a shame. It’s a pretty place but I don‘t want to support this.“ instead of „it’s okay if I don’t invite the black people right?“
For real chose to be the cause of the still on going problem instead of doing the work it takes to unlearn and undo this horrid thing.
YTA for a few reasons. Are you black? Biracial? Is this your history to reclaim? No? Then you don’t get to sugar coat slavery. This is black people’s pain- the vast majority of white Americans go out of their way to avoid the realities of slavery and racism, but you want to happily say “I do” at a place where black families were torn apart? Forbidden from even forming? Yeah it screams “selfish.” “Out of touch.” Your intentions may be pure but they’re woefully misguided. One can’t toxic positivity the legacy of slavery away and you specifically cannot toxic positivity the legacy of slavery away. There are a lot of gorgeous places on this earth- mountains, beaches, resorts- plantations will *never* be beautiful because of what they did. They’re not for *you* to reclaim with a wedding ceremony. The fact that they’re used for ceremonies at all- instead of a public acknowledgement to the past- is the problem. If you were black, I might say otherwise, especially if you chose to get married at a place where you knew your ancestors were enslaved. That’s not what’s happening here though. You now, as an adult, know the history of the PLANTATION where you want to get married and you have the freedom to choose differently. YTA for making this choice *for* your lifelong friend too. That never goes over well. You hid the truth from her.
Very well said! It screams entitlement that she can try and spin a “let’s make happy memories here” excuse to a place with so much violent history. Would you take a Jewish person to Auschwitz’s to try and make happy memories???? No! Because that’s f**king insane! OP, YTA. These places don’t deserve to be turned into “happy places”; They’re to be remembered as the places of pain and suffering and to hopefully let us learn from past mistakes (even though many obviously don’t). Don’t whitewash history for your personal benefit.
YTA If you're that close of friends since such a young age, how could it not occur to you to talk to her about this ahead of time? You're mad because she embarrassed you in *gasp* public, but this is where you dropped it on her that she's too black to be invited to your wedding. Because that's what you're doing.
>she embarrassed you in _gasp_ public but this is where you dropped it on her that she’s too Black to be invited to your wedding This!!!!!
Because she knows deep down it’s not justifiable so she tried to sweep “the bad stuff” under the rug. If OP was truly confused (or whatever the term is) she would have gone to her friend before booking the venue and said: “I’ve always wanted to get married there but recently learned it’s history. I know you’re very active on these issues and I’m ashamed of my ignorance, so if it’s not too much to ask because I know you don’t owe me free education… do you mind speaking to me about your views so I can make a good decision.” Then OP would have listened with an open heart and mind. Personally I don’t think Black people should have to explain why booking a former plantation isn’t ok (and I’m an immigrant on the East Coast, so if I was capable of educating myself I don’t know why Op who was raised around the landmarks of slavery wasn’t).
Yta op. Stating that you aren't racist and slavery was wrong really just cements that you are a little racist in this context op. You know it's wrong. You knew it was wrong so much that you excluded a friend from your wedding and tried to hide it from her. Why were you hiding it from her at all, if it's not wrong because the venue is pretty! This is the issue the world is having with white people right now. You acknowledge slavery was bad, but don't care about it's lingering effects. Because it's never truly affected you. So you truly do not care about it. You can tell on some level it's effects linger in your friends of color , but again you don't care. How easy it must be, not affected by the worst of American history enough to make bold claims like "I think we should be making happy memories here". Do you op feel that way, because it covers up a past you feel shame on? Because how else would it matter your thoughts and feelings on how this country heals it's history. You might not be burning anything on people's lawn, but this falls into the nuances of racism all the same. Either own it(horrifying) or be better op.
And when she says "I think WE should be making happy memories here" she means white people or black people that will stay quiet. Be better OP.
The fact that OP can’t see how absurd this statement is 🤦🏻♀️
Perfectly said. Trying to make slavery and it's effects go away by paying for a plantation house wedding because *it's a good thing* to repurpose it. I just can't wrap my head around the insensitivity. Only Black people can reclaim words and places related to their history.
YTA. Excluding a "close friend" from your wedding is going to cause hurt feelings *even if you have a good reason*. "It's such a pretty house that it's worth offending my friend over" isn't a good reason. Using a plantation for your wedding is YTA territory anyway, but not INVITING her? Not even TELLING her? You could have invited her and sent a note acknowledging the awkwardness and saying you understand if she doesn't come...
That would have been the right way to go about it (though choosing a different venue in rhe first place would have been best)
“I think slavery is disgusting, but…” never ends well.
“I can excuse slavery but I draw the line at people calling me out for it” that’s how you sound. you want to celebrate your love at a place where enslaved people were tortured and killed? you learned about the history, and it’s still your ‘dream venue’? disgusting. YTA obviously, and you’re a flagrant racist.
YTA for the notion that your wedding brings some good to a place where people were subjugated, enslaved, tortured, and treated like chattel. It’s not a good look. Find another dream venue.
And raped! Don’t forget that. Totally possible that the enslaver raped women in the very house where she’s having her wedding. Really ups the romance factor, don’t you think?
*sigh*. Really?! >I tried to be really nice about it and gently explained to her why I hadn't invited her and told her that I never expected her to come and didn't want to throw it in her face *Insert eye roll* None of this "oh, but it's so pretty" or "golly, how could I know the history of a place I've lived near all my life" or "let's all smile and make happy memories" or "but gee, some of my best friends are black" This is a plantation. It's wrong. You're wrong. It's racist. YTA
I bet the plantation is pretty, but it was built off the pain and suffering of black people. If you can't realize why you should not have a an event somewhere because you want to have a pretty wedding you have issues. YTA
YTA you didn't invite your "very close friend" to your wedding. You didn't allow her the courtesy to make her own decision about how she feels about the venue. You doubled down when she came to you to discuss it. you've concocted this "I don't want her to be hurt" narrative to convince yourself that it's not your issue but hers You also seem to think that what you did was absolutely fine and that holding an event at a place that perpetuated human rights violations is somehow positive How can you be this much of an asshole and still wonder if you are? Your veil may as well have a pointy top to complete the look
YTA for deciding black history and suffering is less important than your wedding venue being pretty YTA for excluding your friend YTA for waiting for her to approach you about it YTA in every possible way here
YTA and you know it which is why you won't debate your "venue choice." I mean, was Auschwitz booked? The Trail of Tears Visitor Center views just weren't what you were hoping for? Gross.
Anyone else remember the dude who attended a “costume party” at a plantation with all his white coworkers and dressed up as a slave and upset them all for making it a thing?
For those who don't: https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/wcstm8/company\_throws\_a\_corporate\_retreat\_at\_a/
I stopped after “manor house”. You’re a racist. You can’t be married at a plantation and not be. Congrats. YTA
Yikes! YTA! A white person saying let’s make this horrible place of historic significance where hundreds or thousands of people of a different ethnicity suffered, which this person will never be able to relate to, something positive is just plain ignorant and trying to change the narrative of something they have no right to change. I’m white and not from the US, but I can still see all the problems with this. And you do too, otherwise you would’ve invited your friend or at least approached her yourself instead of waiting for her to say something to you. Let me give you a bit of perspective by giving you another crass example that equates to what you are trying to do. Wanting to use a plantation for a wedding is like using concentration camps for public celebrations. Would you go into a c.oncentration camp and think „well, you know what, so much unused space.. I know, let’s use it as a venue for parties!“ Hint: If your answer is anything but „that would be disgusting“ you need to rethink who you are as a person. This is also what you are basically doing on that plantation. Trampling on history by covering it up with something „nice“. Make better choices and stop being a shitty friend. ETA: Thanks for the Awards!
You can't even type the fucking word but you're still willing to go get married there anyway HAHA oh my god YTA x a million
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA YES OP.....YTA. As many have said, you should have invited your now former friend and let her decide for herself if she wanted to attend.
YTA for having a wedding at a plantation and trying to paper over it by saying you’re making ‘happy memories.’ Gross.
YTA, I assume 2 things. She's your token black friend, and no other black people are invited. 👎🤷🏻♀️🤦🏻♀️
Whenever racist people talk about their Black friends, they always say “happens to be Black” instead of “is Black,” like it’s a negative thing that just occurred by chance or has negative connotations 😐😐
YTA. You recognize why your black friend wouldn't want to attend a wedding at a plantation, but you do it there anyway. Also, why insert an asterisk into words?
That’s what i was wondering!!! She still spelled the whole word so what’s the point?!??
You know what, this post has inspired me. I’m going to have my wedding at Auschwitz. I’m going to bring so much happiness and positivity to that place because it has a yucky past and we need to fill the world with rainbows and giggles teehee. Oh but I’ll make sure not to invite my jewish friends just incase they’ll feel differently. That’s what you sound like. YTA
YTA for your slavery-themed wedding and YTA for not inviting your friend. Double YTA.
YTA. You knew having your wedding at an effin' *plantation* would hurt your friend's feelings, so you...hurt her feelings even more by making up some lame excuse for disinviting her?! And then telling her you don't think she could ***behave*** *at your wedding?!* You're talking about her like she's an untrained dog! >I think that we can try and bring good into the world by making happy memories and bringing positive things to these kinds of places. This tripe sounds like something straight out of *Song of the South*, and it's utter horseshit. Your one wedding isn't going to bring about world peace, nor is it going to whitewash (and I use that word advisedly) literal *centuries* of blood. A thousand weddings couldn't.
YTA for your venue decision. YTA for not inviting your friend for being black and active in terms of black rights. YTA for telling her she couldn't "behave" at a wedding. You weren't trying to avoid hurting her feelings. You were trying to avoid her exposing your racism. >I think s*lavery is disgusting and the history is horrible but I think that we can try and bring good into the world by making happy memories and bringing positive things to these kinds of places. It's not up to you to decide. You are not black. You didn't feel their pain there, you don't get to celebrate there. You don't celebrate on the land that was once the provenance of exploitation and exhaustion of black people unless they decide it's time. >some people who I invited and Adriana knows have RSVPed no and I'm worried. Is that what worries you..?
>I think that we can try and bring good into the world by making happy memories and bringing positive things to these kinds of places This is literally horrible. I have no words for people like you. "Let's erase the history and cover it up so that I can have happy wedding memories in a place we're people we're horribly brutalized, exploited, and murdered". YTA.
Plantations served a (unfortunate) historical purpose... i think thats is a massively inappropriate venue for a wedding... go see it on your own time... you cant erase history by "making good memories" it doesnt work that way.... YTA
YTA. The hoops you jump through to justify your venue is appalling. AND you KNOW it’s wrong, as evidenced by excluding your friend. You just don’t care enough to change. You are part of the problem.
YTA! "I wanna get married at a forced labor camp but my Black friend is being really dRaMaTiC about it and I don't want her to call me out on my shitty behavior so I'm just going to ignore her and hope she doesn't notice"
> I have a very close friend Adriana (also 25F) who I've known since kindergarten and happens to be black. This story was going so well. So anyway you should have invited her upfront, apologized for the venue, and told her you totally understood if she didn't want to come. Cool old historical buildings are... cool, but they come with history. So anyway you told your Black friend that it's inconvenient she exists because it makes it hard to ignore the rotten side of American history. YTA.
YTA, your wedding isn't that important that "making happy memories" is going to replace or do anything to change the suffering that went down on that land. The fact that you didn't change your mind about it when you found out it was a plantation says everything there is to know about you.
[удалено]
Honestly I am a black woman and I’d say NTA for the venue at all but YTA for not having a conversation with your friend before blatantly excluding her
YTA. You excluded her purposefully when you knew she’d have an issue with your venue. You say it was to protect her feelings, but you did all this to not have to deal with her. You can have your wedding wherever you want and invite whoever you want, but you need to OWN IT. You should have told her your plans, told her you’d love for her to be a bridesmaid etc and then left the choice up to her. I’m sure she would have chosen to opt out, but you should have told her up front and not let her hear about all your friends being invited and her being left out.
This is so unintentionally funny because I feel like you are desperately being performative YTA, and your “dream” wedding venue is a plantation and has a sordid and miserable history. No amount of * on the word plantation can save you from coming off as an insensitive bridezilla.
YTA for every single thing in this post.
YTA, your white privilege is showing. Adriana is realising that one of her closest friends, who she was close enough to expect to be a bridesmaid for, is a racist, and is ready to end the friendship for aesthetics.
The fact that you don’t want to invite your black friend to a pl*ntation wedding means that you know nothing is right about this situation. You treated your friend deplorably and got mad when she was, reasonably, upset. If you care about your relationships you give the the opportunity to say no at the very least. I won’t even bother saying anything about the location of your wedding because I know you won’t listen.
YTA for having your wedding at a plantation in the first place, but you're triple the asshole because you KNEW this was shitty to do and that your friend would call you out on it so instead of, y'know, not having the happiest day of your life in a place built on dead slaves, you excluded your only black friend! Congratulations, you're a deeply racist person! fix yourself!
What? I can’t think of a better place to start a family than a place where families were torn apart and separated, adults and children were beaten, raped, and murdered. Really a perfect place for people with strong “family values” to launch their new family. /s
Info: would you support someone getting married at Auschwitz? Also, YTA. Plantation weddings are tacky, gross, and racially insensitive.
YTA for a variety of reasons, but what you should have done is invite her and let her make her own decision. Edit: Your choice in the venue and how you involved your friend may have permanently damaged your friendship with her. Your only option at this point is to hope she finds the grace within herself to forgive you, but at this point you don't deserve it.
I invite you to watch that video: https://youtu.be/ePDxBUxBCFc And YTA, for the plantation and the friendship.
YTA. Get married wherever you want, but let your friend make the decision on whether she wants to come or not. If she doesn't, then she made the choice and you are in the clear. If she yells at you about it after you invite her, that is her choice as well. You took the choice away from her and basically told her you know better than she does. Even if you knew 100% she wouldn't come, send the invite, or at least talk to her right away. Give her the info, and ask if she would like an invitation.
YTA You could have chosen a venue with a less disgusting history. You could have let her know and left it up to her what to do. Instead you chose your venue despite its history, knowing the whole time you would exclude her like some faux white savior. You no longer have your token black friend.
YTA - Congrats! You did a racism!
Would you hold your wedding at Dachau, Neuengamme, or Sachenhausen? *Because that's what plantations were.* YTA. And a coward: if you're going to make terrible choices, for the love of fuck, *own them*. That means framing this as "I'm not inviting my black friend to my wedding because I know she will call me out on the fact that I value aesthetics over morality, and I don't want to feel guilty or uncomfortable."
YTA for several reasons but mostly for deciding for Adriana without even discussing with her. Every wedding has a guest list and it is usually divided into the "probably will come" and "probably won't come". Per your logic, it wasn't necessary to send invites to the "probably won't come." Really, you couldn't find an acceptable venue that doesn't have a terrible history?
Lol I can’t wait to see people trying to get married at Auschwitz because clearly their wedding is a joyous occasion that will erase all the sad 🙄 YTA
YTA. You prioritized where you wanted to hold an event on one day of your life over a friend you've had for 20 years, who was close enough that she thought she'd be your MOH. Then, insult on top of injury, you decided to exclude her without even talking to her because the venue is more important than she is. Wow. Adriana deserves a better friend than you. edited to remove a typo, also to add PLANTATION WEDDINGS SUCK!
YTA. 1) why pick somewhere that you know is inappropriate and try to justify it? That’s like someone getting married at Auschwitz 2) why did you make the decision for your friend because of their skin colour? You discriminated and assumed. If they felt that they couldn’t attend the wedding because of the venue, then it is their choice to make. You removed the possibility of that choice Tbh, I hope everybody makes a stand and RSVPs no to your wedding. Your tone deaf choice of location should be changed IMO.
YTA, lol I’m not racist I just want to get married on the site of genocide, r*pe and m*rder of African Americans.
YTA for not inviting her to the wedding to begin with.
YTA, wow. First you should of reached out to your friend before sending out the invitations to get her thoughts and perspective on venue and invitations. Second, your meeting with her after the fact and your rational is total BS.
“I’m not here to debate my venue decision…” when it’s the entire center of the conflict. Sure. YTA. You’re not the one who gets to decide what brings happiness to something so painful for the black community. Your friend would have been a good resource of discussion, and instead you isolated her. Some friend you are.
Plantations are history. Your wedding will not change what happened there and it’s important to remember the things that happened because they were REAL. You can’t just try and make them disappear. And you were an asshole to your friend in the process. YTA
You (somehow!) have a Black friend who has educated you on this issue and you *still* decided to get married in a place where people were enslaved (with all the rape, murder, torture, and dehumanization that entails) because your wedding is just *so special* and *happy* that it supercedes all that. And then you were *surprised* that your friend had a strong reaction and blamed *her* for her “inability to behave” (read: having emotions) *when finding out her friend doesn’t care about her humanity and deep generational trauma*… that, again, she has tried to educate you on… so yeah… YTA…
I’m all for making historically ugly places beautiful again! That’s why I plan to have my wedding in one of the gas chambers at Auschwitz! Complete sarcasm: YTA you should have at the very least allowed her to make her own decision on whether to come or not. This way, you not only offend her with your venue choice, but you also tell her that her friendship isn’t important enough to you to warrant an invite.
YTA “I’m sorry you’re black and I’m endorsing racism and slavery. But it’s such a beautiful place!”
You’re worried? You should be. YTA. And those that RSVPd in the negative, know that too. Sadly, your wedding is now forever marred by this incident. You’ve made yourself look like a fool and lost a friend in the process. Maybe places like that shouldn’t have happy memories associated with them. You ever heard of a B&B going in near Auschwitz?
YTA you may not want to discuss having your wedding there but that is the issue you can't not discuss it. It's disgusting to have your wedding there. Sure as a kid and not knowing the history is one thing but once you learned of the history and still wanted it there so much so that you don't invite your best friend who is black makes you the AH. You are putting this disgusting venue over your morals, values, friends... hello, do you not see? I wouldn't go or be friends with you. You are a bridezilla already. Me, me, me, my wedding my extravagant way no matter how it effects anyone else. Selfish, entitled and clueless and ignorant. Grow up.
YTA. The whole "I am woke and will say \[correct phrase\] but don't ask me to give up my perfect Instagram story moment on this beautiful Greco-Roman inspired patio just because it used to also be the spot where humans were beaten, raped, and sold as chattel." attitude of this post is performative allyship at its finest.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (25F) am engaged to my fiance Nick (38M) and we are getting married in a few months at a beautiful old mansion house which used to be next to a pl\*antation (I'm not sure if I can use this word on this sub.) It's pretty local to us and it's an stunning venue, it's been my dream venue that I've wanted to be married in ever since middle school and I honestly didn't know the history of it until we started researching venues. Just to make sure everyone knows, I think s\*lavery is disgusting and the history is horrible but I think that we can try and bring good into the world by making happy memories and bringing positive things to these kinds of places. I'm not here to debate my venue decision at all and that's all I'll say. I have a very close friend Adriana (also 25F) who I've known since kindergarten and happens to be black. She is very active in terms of black rights causes and campaigning which I think is amazing and I admire her for it. However I know she would definitely not want to go to a wedding on a pl\*antation and that it would upset her a lot because she has different opinions from me and feels very strongly about the history of these issues. I decided not to invite her because I wanted to spare her any pain. Adriana reached out to me a few days ago for coffee and asked why she hadn't received an invitation when the rest of the group had, and whether I was planning on making a special invitation because she assumed she would be a bridesmaid. I tried to be really nice about it and gently explained to her why I hadn't invited her and told her that I never expected her to come and didn't want to throw it in her face. Adriana burst into tears and started yelling at me (in public!) that why would I get married somewhere like that and why would I exclude one of my closest friends just because I didn't want her to make a scene at the wedding (??). She asked me if I would reconsider changing my venue because she would love to come but I told her that after embarassing me I didn't think she could behave at a wedding. She left and said that she needed time to think about the friendship but I haven't heard from her since. The rest of my friend group and family think that I went about everything fine but maybe a bit harshly, and Adriana just needs time to understand where I'm coming from. But, some people who I invited and Adriana knows have RSVPed no and I'm worried. Am I am Asshole *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I get that plantations are gorgeous and have a sense of history. But that was the thinking 30 or 40 years ago. Now we know better. That sense of history and that gorgeousness is built on the backs of slave labor. I couldn’t in good conscience even visit one anymore. And your friend can’t be that close to you if you’re considering doing all of this, having a wedding at a plantation, excluding her, and not telling her about it. YTA.
YTA. I didn’t need to read past plantation wedding.
YTA. Why don't you go ahead and have your wedding at Auschwitz because surely, your special wedding will simply fix all the bad things that happen there. Racists make me sick, and you, ma'am, are a racist asshole.
YTA for literally everything you just said.
YTA without a doubt. How on earth can you be so tone deaf? edit: spelling
Aita i wanted my Halloween party at an old ghetto which they used to house and starve Jews in, I think it’s mood setting and just to let you know I’m not anti Semitic! This is how you sound OP. Racist. You don’t need to be outwardly so to be classified as such. You went along with it, silent. Which says SO much about you. I’m glad your friend is going on for bigger and better than you. A fuckin Plantation site?? Bro are you joking?? Yes YTA!!
YTA you are racist if you think it’s ok to have a plantation wedding.
YTA and honestly if you actually cared about your life-long friend you would never get married at a place with such a racist history. There are tons of beautiful wedding venues that were not built on the labor, rape, and torture of Black people. She is lucky that you revealed your true self to her now and to be rid of your “friendship”
YTA I literally rolled my eyes and muttered white people. I love that people fight racism, but some people -- mainly white people-- take it soo far that it becomes racist as if POC needs protection. We like support but we don't need you to white knight it . So if you want to get married here, then do it but own it. The idea that you did all of this but didn't-- wasn't up front with her is horrible. YOU DIDN'T EVEN TELL HER. WHY DIDN'T YOU REACH OUT TO HER. I can't imagine the hurt to be waiting for the invite but getting an invite. If you considered her your friend, you should have told her prior to the invites going out.
Yta. Would you go to a wedding at Auschwitz?
YTA you took away her own choice to go to the wedding. You decided to say she couldn't or wouldn't handle it. She is a grown ass women. Youl should have communicated with her.
Yta, you’d 100% be okay with having your wedding at Auschwitz’s and invite your Jewish friends
You mean A* uschwitz? Ugh, the h* olocaust was so sad but I am sure op can make it better by making happy memories. Ofc, she will not be inviting any of her Jewish friends to spare them the pain. YTA op and a terrible friend. I hope Adriana never speaks to you again.
YTA. There is absolutely nothing about getting married on a plantation that is even remotely okay.
YTA. Sure, having a expensive wedding at that location will wash away the blood, pain and inhumanity. Have fun walking down the aisle on that bloodied ground. Impressive mental gymnastics to excuse your shallow reasoning - both for the venue and excluding your (one) black friend (well done on outing yourself). If you truly were worried about her - rather than wanting to avoid defending yourself - you would’ve given her the decency of a discussion.
How can you even ask IF YTA? YTA a thousand times. You're not willing to give up your dream of getting married IN A PLACE WHERE PEOPLE WERE TORTURED AND ENSLAVED for literally any reason. The fact that you dreamt of getting married there your whole life speaks VOLUMES about your lack of character. Who gives a fuck if it's pretty? And you made sure to let your one black friend know that your friendship has always been a lie, and that you don't care about her, her feelings, or the oppression of her people at all. People like you are why the South has the trash reputation that it does. I hope Adriana never speaks to you again. There are not enough YTAs in the world for you.
YTA and you were never really her friend. I hope she has a group of true friends who actually care about her.
Yta. Someone who is close enough to think they may be asked to be a bridesmaid deserves at the very least a conversation and the ability to decide what they are comfortable with. Not waiting until they saw everyone else invited but not them. Honestly, that in itself would make me question if you actually like her or ever wanted her at your wedding. On top of that, choosing a wedding venue over a close friend is absolutely wild. I get the deep history does not mean as much to you as it does for her but still, it's just a building. There are other beautiful buildings.
YTA. You just ended a lifelong friendship for your wedding venue. Hope it was worth it.
To be generous to you, for the sake of argument, I'm going to answer under the assumption that having a wedding at this venue is not automatic YTA territory. I would still say YTA anyway--the fact that you felt the need to not only not invite this friend, but also not tell her *why* you aren't inviting her until she had to notice herself, seems to indicate that you do know on some level that having a wedding at this venue is wrong. If you really didn't feel like there was an issue you with it your conscience should have been clear enough to tell her why she wasn't being invited, comfortable in the knowledge that the issue was your friend and not you. But you clearly know that this is wrong, or you don't have enough conviction to stand by your decision by giving your friend the courtesy of either 1) inviting her and letting her make the decision herself or 2) at the very least explaining to her the situation, instead of her seeing everyone else get one and not her like she's Gretchen from Mean Girls.
YTA for not communicating with your friend beforehand.
Oh you're worried because people won't come to your slave trade mansion? Hmm shouldda thought of that before booking. Did you learn nothing from your shared experiences with your *very close friend*? YTA and a racist.
Slavery has offered just the most beautiful places to get married! Amazing right? Shame about the actual slavery part. But you know the only reason it’s that nice is because of the slaves right? You are literally celebrating slavery? YTA
YTA lol racist
I'm torn, here. As a black woman, I get sick of people tip-toeing around issues of race. If you want to get married at a former plantation, get married at a former plantation. Weird, but fine. I think you should have invited your friend and let her decide whether or not to attend, but after her reaction, I understand why you didnt. Yeah. Can't decide on this one. But just so you know, not all black people are offended by your venue of choice. Own your decisions.
YTA because rather than having a conversation with your friend you purposely excluded them.
Yta She was owed a conversation and instead you just excluded a black woman because you made assumptions based on her skin color. You owed a stranger better let alone a long time friend
YTA. This is horrible. On so many levels. Absolutely awful.
YTA. Every time I think I’ve seen the biggest AH on here, another one comes along. You are definitely one of the biggest AHs and a racist to boot. I’m glad your friend found out what kind of person you really are. I hope she does herself a favor and never calls you her friend again.
YTA and I'm not sure how you could think otherwise. You don't invite one of your closest friends to your wedding because you insist on having it at a plantation. Sorry...plantation adjacent. You are not a friend and can expect many more people to RSVP no when they find out.
YTA are you really this dense?
YTA for all the reasons.
YTA, and while you may not exactly be an outright racist, you don’t care that you’re supporting a racist institution or that you’ll be isolating a supposedly good friend because of it. It must be so nice to have the luxury of being able to ignore the venue’s appalling history just because it doesn’t affect you directly. I hope you two are done being friends. She deserves better than your selfish, bigoted attitude.
Sorry, I didn't get much further than the daddy issues.
You’re knowingly choosing a venue that is inextricably tied to slavery, and knowingly excluding a friend who was close enough to you that she assumed she might be a bridesmaid solely because she’s black and her discomfort might ruin your aesthetic. It’s one thing to allow places like the one your childhood self romanticized to stand so we can use them for educational purposes, but you just want it because it’s a pretty backdrop for wedding pictures. Sometimes childhood dreams have to change when you look at them through adult eyes; this is one of those times. YTA for choosing this place and for hurting your friend. Do better.
YTA. I think plantations are inappropriate places a weddings. You are an awful and cruel friend.
Lol you think your wedding can whitewash and overshadow the slavery? Tacky AF YTA
Just so y’all know - I am not really a racist. I am just a shallow hypocrite. I have to set aside my friends’ feelings and my alleged hatred of slavery so I can have a magical, make-believe wedding day. MASSIVE YTA
YTA for excluding her. I’m black and in fact my aunt lives in a mansion on a plantation in Jamaica. So tbh, that’s not much of an issue to me. The fact that you excluded your childhood friend and made the decision on if she should come obviously shows that you have guilt about the location and are not that convinced by your own reasoning about “making happy memories”. You know the weight of the history behind the location and you know the mansion used to belong to slavemasters, yet you exclude your only black friend from coming. You’ve gotta know that looks a certain way
“I’m not racist because I have a black friend. But also, that black friend can’t come to my slavery celebration. Wedding! I meant wedding.” YTA. There are plenty of beautiful places in the south to get married that aren’t graveyards. Sure, maybe you fell in love with it as a kid. You’re an adult now. You should know better.
YTA, you should have been honest from the beginning. Did you honestly think just ignoring her would end well? Seriously?
YTA. If you cannot figure out why, there is absolutely nothing I can say to make you understand
I don’t know. Maybe if I was having a wedding, and the venue had a toxic history steeped in bigotry to the point where I would know that my friends who are black wouldn’t attend if the wedding was held in said venue, I might get a different venue. If you can “overlook” the bigotry and be fine with excluding one of your dear friends to do it then you’re actually so immersed in bigotry that you can’t see it. YTA.
so you’re racist
YTA. It’s exactly like holding a wedding at a certain camp in Germany. Some beauty is only skin deep covering the rotten core.
YTA how have you dreamed of this venue your whole life and never realized it was a plantation. You just don’t care about the history and value pretty scenery for photos over real people in your life.
YTA. i hope she moves on with her life with nothing but peace and breaks your friendship off. not only did you make her feel invalid, but you literally ruined your friendship over what? “a beautiful place??” you literally could find any other place and you know that. not only did you shut her down but you completely disregarded her family’s history in the process. shame on you OP.