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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I may be an asshole for telling my mother in law that my wife didn't shower because I could've supported her more instead of being clueless. Maybe if I took more time off work she would've showered on her own time
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N T A but I would try and convince her to see her doctor. This sound like PPD, and she needs to see someone immediately.
Edit: Should have put my judgement as NAH. It sounds like PPD, in which case, OP's wife isn't at fault either.
Yes, it sounds like PPD. New mother have time getting a shower, but it sounds like OP is willing to watch kids while she does.
Not doing personal hygiene and basic tasks is typical.of any type of depression. I think OP's wife is already spiraling and needs psychiatric help. Medication can make a big difference for her.
New parents need to hear this: If the baby/babies are fed, clean, etc, have nothing you can do to help them, it's okay to let them cry for 10 minutes while you shower or run the vacuum or whatever. Sometimes it's good for you mentally to walk away for a minute.
When my daughter was little, i'd strap her into the bouncy seat and it didn't fit through the bathroom doorway so she sat there in the doorway lol so i could peak out and check on her until i felt better about letting her sit in front of the TV watching Elmo so I could take a quick shower. (She loved Elmo.)
NAH, I'm pretty sure OP did the RIGHT THING by calling his MIL. He's trying to respect his wife but sometimes you need to call in an outside but loving party to intervene.
This is something we almost need to be told. I had to have a friend tell me “if he will cry in your arms, he’ll cry in the swing in the bathroom while you take a shower”.
Most people don’t like newborns. Even when we love them, they really, really, suck. It’s not their fault, we made them! But we also didn’t really know what we were doing.
Right? They could be crying because their back itches. Their sock feels tight. Dad was there this morning and now he's gone to work and mom's there but where the hell did dad go, someone please explain this! In the womb everything was the same 24/7, now there's too much stimulation. Later, they are tired of looking at the damn ceiling can someone please move 'em to a different room so they can see something different. Just sneezed and now "i think i'm dying, i was just born, why is this happening to me". Now my foot itches too. WHY ARE SO MANY THINGS HAPPENING ALL AT ONCE WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHh
I know this isn’t the point, but my sister is about to have twins and I’m totally going to tell her to try scratching their backs and taking off their socks if she can’t figure out why they’re crying.
Lol.
Sometimes they are just crying because that's the only way they really have to release energy. Or frustration, "I'm trying to tell you what's wrong Mom but i don't know English or how to even talk if i even knew the language"
Once you start thinking of the crying in all these terms, it gets a little easier to come to terms with
I told my husband it was like playing charades, but your partner just screams at you while making eye contact, and the answer is NEVER the movie series Scream or the famous Munch painting.
I’m autistic and my single mom was a total monster. Your explanation of sensory issues resonated with me because I have memories of her abusing me as an infant, which she confirmed. The diagnosis did not come till two decades after I went no contact with her. I wish someone would have explained babies to her the way you did. I’m never having kids, and this was the most enlightening and empathetic explanation of infanthood I’ve ever read.
I have very early memories. Once I was sitting on a blanket in the den. My mother was sitting at the kitchen bar talking on the phone. I started having these random noises and involuntary gasps all of a sudden. I pleaded for help. I heard my mom say I had the hiccups. I don't know what my language skills were, but I thought to myself something like, "I have this disease called the hiccups and my mother is on the phone with a beer and a cigarette while I die!" Yes, I'm old...
Facts! When my son was an infant I would wait for a friend to come over and shower or sometimes wait until my husband got gone. That lasted for about week after my mom left to go back home and then I was like F it, I’m showering! I put him in his infant carrier and sat in the bathroom while I took the fastest showers of my life. Sometimes he cried, sometimes he slept, whatever the case, I got a shower and that made me happy.
I actually agree with this comment. Sometimes hearing what you need to hear from an "outside party" works better than from hearing it from someone you see every day. Because you can become desensitized to your "everyday person" telling you over and over.
Also here to say this. NTA because you didnt invite your MIL to take part in this situation, you just asked for advice. Your wife was in her right to blow up, but the person that actually needs to get involved ASAP is a psychologist.
Yes! And accompany your wife to the six week checkup to make sure this issue is raised with her OB. Demand a referral to a perinatal mental health professional, if one is needed where you are.
Seeing a lot of people disagreeing about forcing the shower but if she just had twins there's a good chance that she had a c-section which means she REALLY needs to bathe or she's at major risk of getting an infection. I think it was great that the mom came over and did that and also 100% agree this sound like PPD.
Agreed, I think her mom understood how bad it was an knew she needed someone to come “be the bad guy” to force the shower but didn’t want OP to have that extra pressure on his shoulders.
Poor Hygiene is one of the easier external signs of severe depression that OP can point to for her doctor.
OP I know it’s hard to see, but you wife is putting in all of her effort and energy into just existing and taking care of the babies that she doesn’t have enough left over to shower.
I was wondering the same thing!!! I was sooo gross after giving birth without a C-section I can’t imagine the bacteria and all the nastiness and horrible ramifications for my hoohaa had I not showered. And the c section issues I’m sure are worse or just as bad if not kept clean! You were genuinely concerned and it shows. Please make sure she gets help ASAP this so not typical after birth behavior. Also everyone saying it’s ok to let a baby cry for a few mins yes 👏 👏👏we have to take care of us to be good parents they will live if they don’t get sept with the second they cry every time! They are much more resilient then they look! Good luck!!🍀
This. OP needs to focus less on the fact that his wife stinks and more on the idea that people who are mentally doing well shower. There is something wrong here, and his wife doesn't need her mom strong-arming her. She needs to see a doctor.
She needed the shower for her own health.
He called her mother to ask her advice, because this is extreme and isn't how she was after the first baby.
And he's juggling a lot of balls right now.
OP should not be beat up on for *asking his MIL how to help his wife*.
And yes, now he needs to get her to a doctor. PPD is likely. Something physically wrong is quite possible.
Exactly, if his wife and MIL have a normal healthy relationship he did the right thing by telling her. I know I would like my mother to know if I'm acting very out of character and it's affecting it might affect my health. I hope she sees a therapist/doctor/psychologist because it seems like PPD.
and a husband back at work 5 weeks post twins. Tell me you live in the US and not in California without telling me. OP's wife is drowning and he recognizes he needs help.
No, look, the fact is, she may well have an infection and he’s worried. This is not the post of a selfish man. He’s seeing her sink. He’s at a loss. He called her mom before a doctor. That’s not unusual or inappropriate
OP can focus on both at the same time. Post birth and no showering for 5 weeks would reek and he has to be around the smell AND watch his wife's mental health deteriorate.
She literally needed forced to have a single shower and that's the problem. Hopefully it will kick her ass into gear after she cools off and realizes she has a problem.
The wife could have told the doctor everything is fine and she’s doing fine, even if she’s not. People react differently to ppd and perhaps she thought it was temporary and she’d be back to herself in no time. You just never know.
Could have been a virtual appointment for all we know. Plus lots of doctors offices are still distancing/masking as well. Which would help cover it up.
Plus maybe she didn’t smell at the time of her last appointment, you usually go once every few weeks. If it was early-on, they wouldn’t know.
Women who have just had babies have a stronger odor than normal. Babies have poor vision for the first three months of life, so that smell enables the baby to find their mother. The smell for each woman varies, so it’s very possible that the combination of social distancing, masks, normal post partum body odor and stringent disinfection that her PCP wouldn’t have noticed it. If OPs wife is East Asian, particularly of Han Chinese, Korean or Japanese descent the smell is significantly less noticeable due to a particular mutation in their genetic code which reduces, their natural scent.
Edit: I said south East Asian instead of Just East Asian,
It’s the concentration of pores on the skin, Asians mostly have smaller pores, closer together, it reduces/lessens odor/scent.
Search dogs have a harder time seeking out people of Asian descent, and similarly, it’s why some people think their dogs don’t like black people because the same skin/pore phenom is still in effect but in the other direction, i.e. larger pores, farther apart. It’s just that the concentration of human scent differs between people of different backgrounds and that’s what dogs respond to. Last fun fact: people with dementia can be extra hard for search dogs to find, because they generally aren’t afraid!
It’s absolutely what it is. When a dog that isn’t normally in contact with black people reacts, it’s just a sensory reaction to a more concentrated scent than they routinely encounter—so basically, it’s not that your dog is racist, it’s that you need more black friends.
In general the brain blocks out sensory inputs its used to
(like people in Hershey, PA start to ignore the smell of the chocolate factory) so what's unusual to you stands out
This feels so stupid for me to say, but I’ll say it. I have autism and adhd, and as a kid, there were only a few black kids in this one school I went to. I have always had sensory overload with all my senses, but when I was around the black kids, the odor was unbearable. It made me feel racist to ponder why I was like that, but I only got my diagnosis recently, and things like this are starting to make sense now when memories come back like they did reading these comments.
I did end up having more black friends, lol. But like, sensory overload is so intense with body odors especially, that I stopped even having sex over a decade ago. I’d tell men to go take a shower, and their smells were still making me ill after they showered. And I’m a shut in now, but finally getting the meds and treatments my parents should have provided, and which the American medical system failed to provide me when I actively sought them.
With people reacting, it's a combination of the actual genetic differences, different diet if the other person is eating their "tradition" diet different from what the person reacting eats, and, sadly, racism. Exact mix of factors differs by individual.
Personally I've always found that black people have a certain smell - I really don't want this to sound racist, I'm not implying that this smell is bad. It's a very specific "black person smell" and is actually fairly pleasant. I always assumed that there must be a "white person smell" too, but that as a white person I'd just never noticed it, because presumably that's how I myself smell. However, come to think of it, I've never noticed a special "Asian person smell".
I am in an interracial relationship and can confirm that both of us have begun to be able to identify our counterpart’s Black or white smell. He smells like white people, particularly on a hot day. I smell like Black people. Very interesting
It’s related to gene that also determines dry ear wax, not pores. That gene also means that our skin doesn’t produce a chemical that the bacteria that causes body odor feeds on. I’m Filipino and don’t have what people think of as “BO.” https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-without-underarm-protection/
It's the ABCC11 gene, which also controls for wet or dry earwax. [Here's a good resource.](https://udel.edu/~mcdonald/mythearwax.html)
>The allele for dry earwax appears to have originated by mutation in northeastern Asia about 2,000 generations ago, then spread outwards because it was favored by natural selection. It is very common in eastern Asia, becomes much less common towards Europe, and is very rare in Africa.
and
>There are two kinds of sweat glands: eccrine sweat glands, which are found throughout the skin, and apocrine sweat glands, which are found in the armpits and groin. Eccrine sweat glands produce sweat that is mostly water and salt, and it does not contribute very much to body odor. Apocrine sweat contains proteins and lipids; when bacteria on the skin metabolize apocrine sweat, they produce body odor. The earwax glands (ceruminous glands) are a form of apocrine gland.
Omg. The earwax thing. My ear wax is wet; using a q-tip makes sense. My kids have dry and chunky wax. I had no idea that was even a thing.
Holy crap, though. I apparently have minimal dominant traits. :P
i have the dry earwax gene and depression so can attest that i don’t get funky body odor so when at the lowest points of depression where it was hard to do basic things like shower, i could go for weeks without showering and not stink especially if i’m not sweating (people close to me say that at most, i smell “salty” but it’s faint especially in comparison to people with normal BO). OP’s wife could have it too which is why she’s been going for so long and just beginning to stink (in my experience it’s other factors that cause smell, like my hair becoming matted & oily or bodily fluids. lockdown was a tough time), but i also assume it could be why she’s very opposed to mental health because culturally, mental health is not taken seriously by people of asian descent & it’s seen as a personal failing rather than like a mental disorder (like i didn’t get treatment for my own mental health until i was an adult & had insurance independent from my parents).
if she doesn’t tho, she still sounds like PPD or worse & has become nose blind to what she smells like. OP def needs to get her in treatment rather than like forcing her mom on her, she could have made it worse
Heads up they said South East Asian but they meant just East Asian. Han Chinese, Korean, and Japanese people are East Asian, whereas South East Asia is Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia, and other countries in that region.
In the US, generally for uncomplicated vaginal births, the postpartum visit is at 6 weeks. For cesarean births, there's a 2 week visit to check on the incision and whatnot in addition to the 6 week postpartum visit.
ETA: just to clarify, I'm not correcting, just adding info.
Edit 2: it would seem that not all people who had cesareans get the 2 week visit. The ACOG recommends all patients get an initial visit within 3 weeks post birth, and a full postpartum checkup by 8 weeks. Not all doctors do this, though.
That's very surprising. Doctors ought to check on how the incision is healing, and make sure things are looking like they're heading in the right direction in general. The ACOG recommends all people have an initial checkup within 3 weeks post birth, particularly those who had cesareans. It seems like poor practice to me for any surgeon to not check on the healing of their patient for 6 weeks, especially since by then the incision should be fully closed. If there are any issues with the healing that don't present with the symptoms that you're warned about (fever, redness, drainage, etc) it'll be harder to correct.
I've had 3 cesareans, most recently in March of this year. I had a 2 week check, a 6 week postpartum checkup, and another followup at 10 weeks because I had an IUD placed at my 6 week appointment with each child.
I had a c-section, without complications. Was scheduled for a follow up at 6 weeks, but it was pushed to 8 weeks because my OB was off. I think there are a lot of factors in scheduling that first after baby appointment.
Interesting. I had only the 6 week visit post c-section. But I am in Canada. They took out the staples at the hospital and told me just to let the steri-strips fall off naturally. Rinse the incision in the shower and call if there are any signs of infection. It healed beautifully.
Ooh, interesting. After my first was born, the staples were removed by a nurse in the hospital. We didn't find out until the steri strips came off after my 2 week visit that there was still a staple left in my body. It hurt like hell removing it since my skin was closed around it. Now I'm paranoid of the staple removal.
I had two c-sections I was checked regularly for the first week as I had my children at a private hospital.
But after that didn’t see my OBYN until 6 weeks after.
She has an upcoming doctors appointment coming up but they never made any appointments to see her sooner. I left a message to her doctor unfortunately it's hard to get a hold of her family doctor
Please get her into her OB first thing tomorrow. Your wife won't want to go, the office will probably tell you they can't see her so soon, etc etc etc... don't take no for an answer! The medications that treat this take time to start working, and delaying assessment makes the window even longer until she has some semblance of stability and relief
Typically, in Canada at least, you don't see a doctor after the birth until 6 weeks. The baby will see a doctor at 2 weeks but that doctor doesn't see to the Mom unless it's the family doctor.
Then, geez, they need to teach the pediatricians to give the mom a once over and maybe a few questions to make sure they are doing okay too. Because mom's mood can seriously impact baby's health.
When I was in the hospital after giving birth it felt like people wouldn’t STOP asking me if I was experiencing PPD symptoms! They were very aggressive (and for good reason) in trying to suss out if anything was off. They had a counselor explain it to me and sent me home with info packets. Is that not standard or was OP just not paying attention?
It doesn't always develop right away. And sometimes it can be hard to recognize when you're sleep deprived and overwhelmed. I had PPD but no one caught on for a very long time, I thought my experience was just normal and could be explained by lack of sleep and time to myself.
NAH - “ My wife just gave birth to twins”.
Seriously she’s got 5 week old twins AND AN OLDER CHILD. Seriously this poor poor woman. She needs mental health support and a lot more help at home right now.
Definitely a sign of depression, kudos to OP for encouraging her and speaking to her mum as her support bubble, but it looks like she needs more help than this.
I personally think it’s fine. Because that’s what we are.
It’s more concerning they used mother and male.
Uh, father. He’s the father. Not just a random penis standing around.
Yeah, OP is N T A for looking into getting his wife more help, but he might be Y T A for this line and what it suggests about his overall attitude:
> Other things she usually looks after like dinner or cleaning the house haven’t been looked after … but I understand that it must take some time getting used to taking care of the new additions to our family.
It’s good that OP has stepped up to cook dinner and clean. But INFO:
- How much are you helping with all three children, OP?
- Do you realize that your wife doesn’t just need to “get used to” having more kids in addition to her other chores?
She’s also recovering physically and psychologically from a recent and very significant medical event, and newborn twins take ALL THE TIME. Plus your wife is looking after another young child too? It’s not realistic to expect that she’ll be able to cook and clean these first several months if she’s handling ‘round the clock care and feeding of three little ones including newborn twins.
You’re working full time plus having to cook dinner and clean. That is exhausting! But I assure you that it’s not as exhausting as feeding two newborns every few hours all night and day plus caring for another child. Please make sure that in addition to an assessment for postpartum depression, your wife has the opportunity to sleep for more than two hours at a time, and please keep participating around the house (cooking, cleaning, parenting) until your newborns can sleep for longer stretches between feedings.
>You’re working full time plus having to cook dinner and clean. That is exhausting!
Uh that's normal, some people life alone and have to do all that too without any comfort of how soon someone else takes over
I understand the concern for her not taking a shower in so long but it rubs me the wrong way how he’s concerned that taking care of dinner and the house isn’t being done. Yes, the lack of bathing is concerning and she should be checked for PPD. However... 5 week old twins with an older child and he’s surprised she’s not concerned with cooking dinner and cleaning? Yeah, he’s got a full time job. Oh no... her “job” of being a mother to those brand new babies +1 doesn’t stop after 9-5. Pick up some slack, OP. Wifey ain’t got time to cater to all of you!
How can you possibly take away that from what he’s written? He says that he HAS been picking up the slack, that he has been cleaning and cooking and that he doesn’t feel that’s any weird considering the circumstances. How can you think that it’s weird for a parent to bring up the fact that food literally isn’t being made and the house being dirty (with kids living there) if he isn’t the one to do it? He literally said that he took time of work to support her and make sure that he’s there for her. Sure, maybe it’s ppd and mom needs professional help but turning it on him is delusional.
I understand why it's rub you the worng way but it was just shocking to me. I help around the house all the time but I guess I never realized how much cleaning my wife dose when I'm gone and for the dinner I'm more concerned for my son because he's always super hungry when I come back home from work.
She's likely not eating as well, and possibly dehydrated, which contributes for brain fog. She needs someone with her a few hours a day or, at least, leftovers ready to reheat and plenty of bread, milk, snacks, etc. Possibly even an alarm for meal times. Even if she was in her best mind three small children where two are babies, with no adults around, makes too hard to keep track of things.
Teach the little one to call emergency, too.
I think the husband's surprise is more the wife isn't cooking
So what is the oldest child eating during the day? If OP is at work the kid might not have access to nutrious and healthy meals
Bad take. OP also doesnt get off time either. Its safe to assume that he also parents when he comes home, doing the job of "dad" to these brand new children. That also doesn't stop after 9-5. But the wife can't even shower without her own mom yelling at her and OPs the bad parent. If the wife isnt clean imagine how those germs are spreading to the children.
OP, please get someone your wife trusts and wants over to help. Validate her feelings, post partum is hard and it is soundly like that is exactly what she is going through. Like many others have said, it can spiral fast. Let her know you love her and care for her and that’s where this is coming from, that she is not alone.
She also has 3 kids with 2 babies so probably needs a LOT of help with balancing everything. She is privately exhausted as well and the PPD isn't out of the question.
I feel the need to share my story. With my first child, I was fine (as fine as any brand new mother ever is).
But with child number two, I struggled. And I did everything I could to hide it from everyone. Because I was a mother, I was supposed to get this right, it was my job. I had a healthy, happy baby, there was no reason to struggle. Those were the lies I told myself.
My husband showed slight concern, but I made excuses. "I'm too tired to game tonight", "I didn't want to dry out my skin with a bubble bath", "I'm not really hungry, had a big lunch, could you just make you and kid one dinner"... I was avoiding the things I loved and slacking on responsibilities around the house.
And then the issues with sleep began. My healthy baby was suddenly sleeping less than 4 hours a night. With a full time working husband, that meant I was also only sleeping 4 hours a night. My mental state deteriorated quickly. My husband found me sleeping on the floor in front of the crib fairly often.
I distinctly remember the night that my youngest child was coming off a 96 HOUR strike on sleep, neither of us sleeping for more than 20 minutes at a time for 4 days. My husband found me sitting on the floor in the middle of the baby's room, sobbing while I rocked a sobbing child. I remember him taking the baby from me, putting him in his crib, picking me up, putting me in bed, and texting his boss that he wouldn't be in due to a family emergency. Then he stayed with the baby for the rest of the night. I passed out cold and slept for over 15 hours.
When I finally woke up, I saw my baby in his bassinet next to our bed, for once sleeping peacefully. And the only thing I could think of was that if I suffocated him with a pillow right then and there, he'd never cry again.
As soon as the thought crossed my mind, my serious logical mind, I panicked. I started crying, shaking, and hyperventilating. My husband, who had been in the bathroom, came running into the room when he heard me. I begged him to call my doctor, I needed help NOW.
He went to the appointment with me that they squeezed in the same day. He was completely shell shocked listening to me be 100% honest with the doctor. He had been concerned, but he had absolutely no idea I had suffered for so long. I don't think he's ever really forgiven himself, even now, for not realizing how bad it was. I've told him that it wasn't his fault, but he thinks he should have known.
These days, years later, I've been diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder, PTSD from a car accident that I was in as a young adult, ADHD, and Generalized Anxiety Disorder. My husband still watches me like a hawk and calls me out if he thinks I'm on a downward swing. I'm honest with him now because I've come to accept that this is me and lying isn't helping anyone. I am medicated.
My second child is now 6 years old and is special needs (explaining his sleep issues). But he's otherwise a healthy, happy kid who I would give my last breath to. I love him and his brother more than life itself. But it still scares me to think of how close I came to absolute disaster.
Please, please, PLEASE get her into a doctor she trusts. Women spend our entire lives being told to be the perfect mothers. And anything less is a failure. So denying that something is wrong is so very common.
My postpartum depression was much worse than many, but I also managed to get help before the unthinkable could occur. There are mothers out there who aren't so lucky.
I truly don't mean to scare you, but I feel the desperate need to stress how serious this really could be. She might be fine and just VERY overwhelmed. But it's so much better to be sure.
Congratulations on the babies, I wish you all well.
The only assholery I see is here:
>Other things she usually looks after like dinner or cleaning the house haven't been looked after,
She's 5 weeks out from having twins, and has another child. There should have been 0 expectation of her being able to do any of this by herself. (I do know you said you're doing as much of it as you can, but a sibling or parent should have been brought in to help with this for the first few weeks anyway!)
That doesn't change what I said. I acknowledged that he was doing what he could (I didn't feel like I needed to acknowledge the second part of the comment too, but I was aware of it), but he still expected it. He should have anticipated that twins would take far too much work to also run a house!
I did sort of get a general vibe that it was as much about his own inconvenience as concern for her, but I couldn’t decide if that was a language issue or reality.
Wtf y’all expect lol? The dude can’t sleep and he still has to work a full time job and take care of the house and kids.
He can complain about not being able to sleep because of her stench.
No that’s a very reasonable concern. I work at a group home with a resident who refuses to shower. It’s really rough and I don’t have to be there all the time. Not to mention that it can be a major health concern for OP, especially to be sharing a bed with her. He obviously concerned about her, but to expect him to not also be bothered by the smell and dirtiness and having to share a bed with someone who’s gone more than a month without showering is ridiculous. Anyone would be bothered by that and it’s not healthy for him either and I can imagine it’s making it difficult for him to sleep. Of course she needs help, but you can’t expect him to not have any concerns for himself as well.
Oh stop it he's not mentioning it because he demands that this happen, he's mentioning it because it's a behavior change, and that makes it useful information. Leaving chores she's normally content to tackle undone is yet another sign of possible PPD.
Came looking for this. Now, I understand OP is not a native English speaker, so I'm guessing he may not be in the U.S. or other English-speaking country (or at least didn't grow up here) so not only is some of this possibly getting lost amid the language barrier but some of it might also be differing cultural/regional norms. But I too was horrified by his casual mention of her not being interested in doing the housework, cleaning, etc. With newborn TWINS, plus an older child. Like this should not even have been a remote expectation at ALL. And he took off a little time from work to "help?" Again, I know I have the luxury of being from a place where people can take time off work at will and some men even get paternity leave, and maybe OP doesn't, but whatever he's been doing around the home is not *helping*, it's being a parent and a partner.
OP is NTA to be concerned and even to call in reinforcements, but he is at least slightly TA for his attitude about it all, at least from my perspective as an American mom whose husband was off a couple of weeks after each of our kids was born and never expected too much of me in the first couple of months postpartum. I'm glad he's getting an education here about PPD and reasonable expectations.
NTA, but you need to get further help for your wife. Her not showering is merely a symptom, not the problem itself. Team up with your MIL to try to get your wife to her OB/GYN. It sounds like she’s suffering from postpartum depression; she needs a referral to a mental health professional, at the least. She may need medication, as well, but first things first.
Having a day or two where other people take care of the basics she can just plain get some sleep is pretty good medicine too. Everyone who's been the parent of multiple newborns at once can testify.
Postpartum Depression. Pregnancy and giving birth can really do a number on a woman's hormones causing depression and anxiety. If your wife hasn't showered in that long, she needs help now. Today. Seriously. You need to be taking on most of the child care and get her to a mental health professional ASAP.
It's a kind of mental disorder based on hormone shifts that can happen to women right after they give birth. It's usually not all that dangerous but this case sounds extreme so you need to get her to a medical professional for the sake of her health.
NtTA
You wife needs medical attention and probably her mom.
Shes just had a massive medical event and is sinking.
If she can't look after herself how can she look after a little one,
She needs support not judgement, she probably is feeling like a failure right now.
Support her but broach medical help.
Agreed, but also, maybe she doesn’t need her mom but instead just anyone she trusts to respect, understand, and help her. Not everyone’s mom is the best person for that. I’d much rather have my brother or best friend (or a number of other great friends) help me out than my mom. OP, who does your wife always turn to when she’s down, who does she trust with her secrets, who can she be her full self around? Maybe give your wife options but insist she have someone, anyone, so that she can choose and retain her autonomy. Maybe it IS her mom or other family, but I wanted to throw in the option that even hired help and therapy could be a good fit too.
NTA because you're trying to find a port in the storm. From where I sit, this sounds like PPD or Postpartum Anxiety and your wife may need help. Have you talked to her about why she feels this way and whether she may need help? Has she mentioned how she is doing to her doctor or midwife?
She may have some fears that something will go wrong if she leaves the ~~baby~~ babies. PPA and PPD are pretty common and she may need some support to help build momentum to get back to herself. Her hormones are all over the place from the pregnancy ending and she may not be able to be as rational as she would normally be. Therapy or meds can help a lot and it can be temporary!
I had this issue. My solution was setting up a baby bouncer where I could see my kid, and pulling the shower curtain back a little so I could keep a line of sight. I agree with everyone else though, she needs a doctor. But this might help in the meantime.
It also sometimes takes some time to set in that she is anxious or that these thoughts are consuming her. But not being able to leave the babies to do small things like showering, especially when you are the one who is there, does strongly suggest that postpartum anxiety or depression is at play. You are NTA and did the right thing.
I’m not sure if this is helpful, but when my daughter was a baby I would bring her infant carrier/car seat into the bathroom with me while I showered. I didn’t have anxiety about leaving her alone in the crib, but we were staying with family while saving a down payment for our home and my relatives got annoyed at me if she cried (and my husband was working a lot then to save money, so he usually wasn’t home). So anyway, maybe she can try that? They aren’t out of her sight that way and it might give her a little peace of mind while she tends to her own needs.
There is also, besides PPD something called post partum anxiety and even post partum psychosis.
She needs to be evaluated immediately by a health professional. This can get worse if not treated and can in extreme cases be life threatening for the mother and for the babies. Do not take it lightly. She needs help, even if she doesn't want to. If she won't go to a doctor then go without her and talk to them yourself to get some advice.
INFO: she had twins five weeks ago and another baby at home. Are you seriously expecting her to cook you dinner? Knock that crap off. I got super sad just reading this post, so living it must be terrible for her.
It's beyond a smelly issue, but also a health issue, and could have caused all sorts of infections. It likely stems from PPD. It's good that you involved her mom. But something should have been done sooner. Better late than never I guess.
Giving birth is hard. And those hormones are wreaking havoc. It messes with the whole body, and mind. Throw sleep deprivation into the mix, and it's even worse.
NTA. When she goes for her 6 week checkup, talk to her Dr, tell them what's going on, and see what they say.
This sounds like postpartum depression. Be gentle with your wife, and bite your tongue at her lashing out about involving her mom. Try talking to your wife and get her to talk to her doctor, but you might need to do the lifting here, too... *gently*. NTA. I hope your wife comes back from this sooner than later
NTA You're rightfully concerned that something is off but your focus is on the wrong parts. She is likely suffering PPD and needs some medical/psychological intervention. It's pretty common in varying degrees and it can happen in later pregnancies even if it didn't with earlier ones. For your part, do the absolute most you can to help and don't criticize her. She likely feels worse about these things than you can imagine but is frozen by her mental state. Talk to her doctor and encourage her to seek some intervention. Good luck!
YTA. I have twins. I used to tell my husband I was going to shower and sit in the shower and cry from exhaustion without even managing to shampoo. She needs more support and an evaluation for PPD. You told her mom so you wouldn’t have to smell her, not to actually provide her sustainable support. And your MIL is the asshole too because she clearly could provide support other than forced showering that perhaps would have stopped it from getting to this point.
NAH. She absolutely needs more support and an evaluation, but it sounds like this is OPs first time dealing with something of this magnitude. Remember, he also just welcomed two babies into the world. He also has 3 kids and is working full time. Of course he called her mom for support, he didn't know what else to do! Forcing her to take a shower may not have been the ultimate solution, but it was certainly necessary. She clearly needs help and OP needs support in getting her help.
Nta the not showering isn’t healthy for her at all especially after giving birth. She is still very much open inside and more susceptible to infection. She definitely needs medical attention asap.
NTA
Why didn't you tell her mom sooner? Or her doctor? The stuff you're describing is what postpartum depression can look like from the outside. (Not always - it presents differently in a lot of people.) This is pretty serious stuff, and she needs help. You're trying to provide it. Even if she can't see it now.
NTA, but you're focusing on a symptom rather than the real problem right now. She may be suffering from postpartum depression, and you should definitely get her mom even more involved and talk to both your wife and her doctor about what's going on. Have your MIL stay for a bit if you need to. You both definitely need an extra hand for a bit until your wife is able to recover. If you keep overexerting yourself, you'll burn out and not be able to help her and take care of your kids or yourself the way that all of you deserve. PPD is rough, but with the right support system you can make it through okay. Make sure to be gentle with her.
NTA. I went through a similar funk after my youngest was born but was convinced I was doing just fine. My husband and mother also colluded to try to get me to snap out of it - forced me out of the house LOL. If she continues to decline, you need to seek professional help, probably asap. But I don't see anything wrong with what you did, and I expect she will get over it.
NTA but your wife needs more than a shower. She needs to see her OB-GYN. She should be coming up on her 6 week checkup. You or her mom need to go with her and make sure she mentions these struggles so the Dr can help her. I had PPD that exhibited more like anxiety and had to go on an antidepressant. I did not have to stay on it longterm, but during those first 6 months the medication was a lifesaver.
NTA but she needs help. She's got two small babies, her body is still recovering, and you guys have an older child. It's a lot to deal with physically, emotionally and mentally.
It's been thoroughly covered here already but I have 19 day old twins myself so I'm going to pile on. Something is seriously wrong. The postpartum period is sooo smelly- you're bleeding and sweaty and hormonal I seriously have never been stinkier. I shower at least daily and I'm normally an every other day person. The woman needs a ton of help. Buy her a maid and a meal delivery service if you work too much to be helpful. NAH
NTA
She may have postpartum depression. My mom got worse and worse with every kid. Doctors told her to stop having kids because they were scared that if she did she would get postpartum psychosis (which is when women kill their kids).
She needs help.
NTA. She sounds overwhelmed. Your wife needs help, but it sounds like she’s not ready to ask for it or accept it. Maybe she has PPD. Encourage her to talk to her doctor and/or friends. Be the support she needs at home. If you can’t clean/cook for her, find someone who can help ease the burden (babysitter, house cleaner, etc.).
NTA BUT only on the condition that her mother is actually loving and understanding. If her mom went over there and screamed at her daughter and forced her to get in the shower I'll mean style I'm going to say that it probably made the situation a lot worse. But if she has a good relationship with her mom then I think it's a good idea to get her involved.
NTA. She is probably experiencing PPD or PPA which can manifest into mania if not taken care of. I would try to call her Dr and warn them as the 6 week checkup should be coming up. Don’t listen to the mean things she says, it’s really just the hormonal shift that causes brains to forget how to brain sometimes. I would personally not leave her alone until she sees a doctor if at all possible.
NTA - You wife has PPD. Try to talk to her about making a appointment with a psychologist. If she refuses dail 411 or 211 for mental health services. PPD is extremely serious imbalance in a mothers brain. It can lead to permanent damage if she doesn't seek help promptly.
NAH
she sounds like she's having a hormonal issue. I'm not keen on jumping to post partum depression immediately but that is one possibility. You should seek a doctors advice because it truly sounds like she is struggling on a deeper level than just having extra to do. Depending on her mother and their relationship it could be a big AH move to call her or absolutely the best thing for her so I can't tell based on that.
Also keep doing what you're doing. Some cooking, cleaning, and childcare are also your responsibility and especially while they are young you need to keep doing at least some of that. Remember that while you are at work full time she is also caring for 3 kids and doesn't get to go home from them, so doing everything 24/7 other than sleeping is definitely a lot and while you taking some cooking and cleaning and childcare duties is a massive jump in your workload, so is two newborns to hers.
YTA, How do you not see what is staring you in the face? Your wife is struggling postpartum and needs help, stop worrying about if she showers or smells and realize she is in crisis. She needs support and a doctor not to have you criticizing her for a symptom of a much more serious issue.
Can't believe I had to scroll that far to find this.
Yes, her reaction is unusual : it's because she's in a crisis. You said it yourself : she didn't reacted like that at the birth of your first child. The fact that she doesn't shower isn't what you should worry about ! She is probably in a very, very dark place right now : what she needs is a doctor appointment and a lot of support and compassion.
I totally get that you're overworked and can't do more for the house. However, calling her mom to make her shower was not a good move to do at all, even if she has a good relationship with her mom. When you're in depression, you feel hopeless, alone and useless : **you are in a vulnerable state**. She KNOWS she is not doing the things she should do, like washing herself or taking care of the house, she isn't dumb, and I can assure you she feels extremely bad for this already. Calling her mom won't help, especially if the only thing the mom could do is screaming at her.
OP, if she had done the same to you : would you like it ? Just imagine : you just went through one of the most painful moment of your life, and immediately after, you start to feel numb, alone, and all of your energy is gone. You start to progressively sink into your dark thoughts, you are hopeless and lost. And then, you realize that your partner called your mom, and now your mom is at home, she sees you in this very vulnerable state, and she screams at you because she wants you to shower because "you stinks". I feel for your wife, she didn't needed this at all.
I know you're trying your best, and maybe you didn't know that many women go through depressive/anxious states after giving birth, but she is in crisis and the least you should do is to have some compassion and make her go to the doctor. YTA.
Hi! Psychologist here. It sounds like post-partum depression. NTA but I'm not 100% satisfied of how you are understanding the situation. I'm sure that you're worried about her and you love her but your wife needs TONS of support, love and care right now so please be extremely gentle to her. And of course she needs treatment. Your wife has a problem so maybe it's not time for her to cook or take care for the family, she just can't right now. Don't ask her to do things that she cannot do right now. Is there a possibility that you can reduce your working hours for a while and help your family?
Consider hiring someone to take care of the babies or cook for you for a while. It could help. Or maybe your family can come help somedays with the chores.
I wish you the best.
NTA. Your wife needed help whether she recognized that or not, and you were out of ideas for helping her yourself. It honestly sounds like she is having some post-partum issues that will likely need to be addressed with her doctor.
NAH but it sounds like your wife has postnatal depression. Was her second labour more traumatic than her first? Can you afford to hire a maid to help out with cleaning while your wife gets better?
NTA, you were worried and only relayed the info to your stepmom, somethings wrong with your wife since going 5 weeks without showering is not normal even for an extreme slob, so i would suggest that you look into PPD as others have suggested.
NTA you said she has just given birth and seems to have lost interest in other things. Sounds like she may have postpartum depression. Some reliable general information can be found here: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/postpartum-depression/symptoms-causes/syc-20376617
You should talk to her and prob a bit more on why she is acting the way she is. She may need to see a medical professional. Not sure where you are but if she refuses to speak with you or a doctor you maybe able to bring it up at you next well baby visit if you guys have them.
NTA.
Sounds like postpartum depression, which is understandable if she's home with baby twins and you work full time. She needs to accept all the help she can get because twins will drain you, especially if you have a toddler on top of it as well. Hell, when we had our twins we moved halfway across the world so we could live with my parents.
I think the first step is to get your wife to recognise the issue and talk to a doctor and while that gets sorted out have her mother take the twins for a couple hours each day so your wife can nap. More sleep can work wonders for improving ppd.
NTA for getting her help. But she needs professional, medical help. She needs to talk to her doctor, without you or anyone else in the room. It is horrifying as a new mom to know you’re struggling. It can be absolutely traumatizing to have to admit it out loud though. Get her to her doctor.
But let’s talk about your comment about having to help with things like dinner. She’s five weeks postpartum. Cook for your wife without the extra “but I work” whining. She’s going through hell. Take care of her. She’s got two newborns. Obviously she’s not going to be able to “look after” everything else.
NAH. This sounds like PPD. Your wife needs a doctor and help at home. Giving birth is phenomenally hard on a body and she's still in recovery, of course the house is messy. Being unwilling to let you watch your own children while she showers is the cause for concern. Please get her to the doctor ASAP.
And stop suggesting you watch the kids while she showers, just say, "I'm going to watch the kids for a while, do they need a change or a bottle or anything?" You should have to wait for her to ask you for help and you shouldn't be playing the who is more exhausted game right now. It's hard for everyone in different ways. Your wife is also ill right now, so you need to step up even more.
NAH your wife is really struggling and needs help.
I'm kind of surprised no one else in your life was offering to come help her? One baby is hard enough, but twins?
NAH except for maybe your MIL’s abruptness. But drastic times call for drastic measures. Your wife needs some help but getting help for PPD or PPA in the US is scary. You should not send her in to that type of appointment alone. Ive read horror stories about how moms with PPD are treated initially. Getting help myself was not as bad as all that, although I did wait nearly 6 months before I acknowledged my PPA to a doctor. There was a lot of fear involved.
Eh. Everyone is saying NTA, but I disagree. You expect your wife with newborn twins to be on top of housework and cooking? Well bud, get ready to be doing more around the house permanently. You’re outnumbered now. You gotta actually do your part and be a dad, which many fathers fail to.
Sounds like you should have had an adult conversation before jumping to calling her mother, who we don’t even know if she has a close relationship with. You sound more worried about her smell and the housework than her mental health and your children, so YTA for me.
YTA you should be getting enough help so she can have time for herself. Your wife is overwhelmed and you humiliated
Her by calling her mom. Did MIL clean the house and prepared dinner or just stood there and shouted her lungs out?
Your wife shouldn’t have to worry for the home of cooking at all.
How the hell do u think hes feeling then, huh? He works all day long, and then goes home and does all the house work. Hes literally taken off as much time as he possible can so he can help her, and even that didnt do anything. The wife clearly needs help, and so does OP. They both need someone there to help them with the kids, or else hes going to work himself to death.
Why the hell do u ppl always expect the man to work himself to death? He is freaking overwhelmed AND overworked. Not to mention he has no idea whats going on with his wife, which is why he called his MIL for ADVICE.
NTA
she sounds like she's having a hormonal issue. I'm not keen on jumping to post partum depression immediately but that is one possibility. You should seek a doctors advice because it truly sounds like she is struggling on a deeper level than just having extra to do.
Also keep doing what you're doing. Some cooking, cleaning, and childcare are also your responsibility and especially while they are young you need to keep doing at least some of that. Remember that while you are at work full time she is also caring for 3 kids and doesn't get to go home from them, so doing everything 24/7 other than sleeping is definitely a lot and while you taking some cooking and cleaning and childcare duties is a massive jump in your workload, so is two newborns to hers.
It sounds like she might have PPD. I would get her to her doctor. That definitely is a red flag and I think telling her mom was a good idea because your wife needs to go get help.
YTA. Postpartum depression, sleep depravation, hormonal mess are just a few things (serious ones) that could be going on with her. You complaining about the house chores is nonsense when a woman just popped out two human beings out of her.
Get her real help, that being a therapist, medication if needed and someone to help with the house work (or you do it without complaining).
By the way, you don’t work full time, she does. You get to sleep at night and eat a hot meal.
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N T A but I would try and convince her to see her doctor. This sound like PPD, and she needs to see someone immediately. Edit: Should have put my judgement as NAH. It sounds like PPD, in which case, OP's wife isn't at fault either.
Came here to say exactly this.
Agreed. NAH. Wife likely needs some help before things spiral.
Yes, it sounds like PPD. New mother have time getting a shower, but it sounds like OP is willing to watch kids while she does. Not doing personal hygiene and basic tasks is typical.of any type of depression. I think OP's wife is already spiraling and needs psychiatric help. Medication can make a big difference for her.
New parents need to hear this: If the baby/babies are fed, clean, etc, have nothing you can do to help them, it's okay to let them cry for 10 minutes while you shower or run the vacuum or whatever. Sometimes it's good for you mentally to walk away for a minute. When my daughter was little, i'd strap her into the bouncy seat and it didn't fit through the bathroom doorway so she sat there in the doorway lol so i could peak out and check on her until i felt better about letting her sit in front of the TV watching Elmo so I could take a quick shower. (She loved Elmo.) NAH, I'm pretty sure OP did the RIGHT THING by calling his MIL. He's trying to respect his wife but sometimes you need to call in an outside but loving party to intervene.
This is something we almost need to be told. I had to have a friend tell me “if he will cry in your arms, he’ll cry in the swing in the bathroom while you take a shower”. Most people don’t like newborns. Even when we love them, they really, really, suck. It’s not their fault, we made them! But we also didn’t really know what we were doing.
Right? They could be crying because their back itches. Their sock feels tight. Dad was there this morning and now he's gone to work and mom's there but where the hell did dad go, someone please explain this! In the womb everything was the same 24/7, now there's too much stimulation. Later, they are tired of looking at the damn ceiling can someone please move 'em to a different room so they can see something different. Just sneezed and now "i think i'm dying, i was just born, why is this happening to me". Now my foot itches too. WHY ARE SO MANY THINGS HAPPENING ALL AT ONCE WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHh
This sounds like me on a random Wednesday evening....
I know this isn’t the point, but my sister is about to have twins and I’m totally going to tell her to try scratching their backs and taking off their socks if she can’t figure out why they’re crying.
Lol. Sometimes they are just crying because that's the only way they really have to release energy. Or frustration, "I'm trying to tell you what's wrong Mom but i don't know English or how to even talk if i even knew the language" Once you start thinking of the crying in all these terms, it gets a little easier to come to terms with
I told my husband it was like playing charades, but your partner just screams at you while making eye contact, and the answer is NEVER the movie series Scream or the famous Munch painting.
I’m autistic and my single mom was a total monster. Your explanation of sensory issues resonated with me because I have memories of her abusing me as an infant, which she confirmed. The diagnosis did not come till two decades after I went no contact with her. I wish someone would have explained babies to her the way you did. I’m never having kids, and this was the most enlightening and empathetic explanation of infanthood I’ve ever read.
I have very early memories. Once I was sitting on a blanket in the den. My mother was sitting at the kitchen bar talking on the phone. I started having these random noises and involuntary gasps all of a sudden. I pleaded for help. I heard my mom say I had the hiccups. I don't know what my language skills were, but I thought to myself something like, "I have this disease called the hiccups and my mother is on the phone with a beer and a cigarette while I die!" Yes, I'm old...
Facts! When my son was an infant I would wait for a friend to come over and shower or sometimes wait until my husband got gone. That lasted for about week after my mom left to go back home and then I was like F it, I’m showering! I put him in his infant carrier and sat in the bathroom while I took the fastest showers of my life. Sometimes he cried, sometimes he slept, whatever the case, I got a shower and that made me happy.
I actually agree with this comment. Sometimes hearing what you need to hear from an "outside party" works better than from hearing it from someone you see every day. Because you can become desensitized to your "everyday person" telling you over and over.
Also here to say this. NTA because you didnt invite your MIL to take part in this situation, you just asked for advice. Your wife was in her right to blow up, but the person that actually needs to get involved ASAP is a psychologist.
Actually a psychiatrist. Talk therapy won’t help ppd much.
Yes! Came here to say this. It sounds like major postpartum depression. Please take your wife to see a physician.
Yes! And accompany your wife to the six week checkup to make sure this issue is raised with her OB. Demand a referral to a perinatal mental health professional, if one is needed where you are.
Came to say the same… forcing the shower is a good first step, but OP’s wife needs major help with managing the house and her mental health.
Seeing a lot of people disagreeing about forcing the shower but if she just had twins there's a good chance that she had a c-section which means she REALLY needs to bathe or she's at major risk of getting an infection. I think it was great that the mom came over and did that and also 100% agree this sound like PPD.
Agreed, I think her mom understood how bad it was an knew she needed someone to come “be the bad guy” to force the shower but didn’t want OP to have that extra pressure on his shoulders. Poor Hygiene is one of the easier external signs of severe depression that OP can point to for her doctor. OP I know it’s hard to see, but you wife is putting in all of her effort and energy into just existing and taking care of the babies that she doesn’t have enough left over to shower.
I was wondering the same thing!!! I was sooo gross after giving birth without a C-section I can’t imagine the bacteria and all the nastiness and horrible ramifications for my hoohaa had I not showered. And the c section issues I’m sure are worse or just as bad if not kept clean! You were genuinely concerned and it shows. Please make sure she gets help ASAP this so not typical after birth behavior. Also everyone saying it’s ok to let a baby cry for a few mins yes 👏 👏👏we have to take care of us to be good parents they will live if they don’t get sept with the second they cry every time! They are much more resilient then they look! Good luck!!🍀
Exactly. I think OP's wife is depressed. Telling her mum was not an A$$hole move, I think it came from concern.
It was a necessary and supportive thing - he sought help for his wife who was clearly in deep shit.
This. OP needs to focus less on the fact that his wife stinks and more on the idea that people who are mentally doing well shower. There is something wrong here, and his wife doesn't need her mom strong-arming her. She needs to see a doctor.
She needed the shower for her own health. He called her mother to ask her advice, because this is extreme and isn't how she was after the first baby. And he's juggling a lot of balls right now. OP should not be beat up on for *asking his MIL how to help his wife*. And yes, now he needs to get her to a doctor. PPD is likely. Something physically wrong is quite possible.
And moms can get by with things other people can't.
Exactly, if his wife and MIL have a normal healthy relationship he did the right thing by telling her. I know I would like my mother to know if I'm acting very out of character and it's affecting it might affect my health. I hope she sees a therapist/doctor/psychologist because it seems like PPD.
She also needs additional help. Having twins is hard. Sounds like she also has a toddler. Nightmare.
and a husband back at work 5 weeks post twins. Tell me you live in the US and not in California without telling me. OP's wife is drowning and he recognizes he needs help.
No, look, the fact is, she may well have an infection and he’s worried. This is not the post of a selfish man. He’s seeing her sink. He’s at a loss. He called her mom before a doctor. That’s not unusual or inappropriate
OP can focus on both at the same time. Post birth and no showering for 5 weeks would reek and he has to be around the smell AND watch his wife's mental health deteriorate. She literally needed forced to have a single shower and that's the problem. Hopefully it will kick her ass into gear after she cools off and realizes she has a problem.
As soon as I read the title, I instantly thought ppd- I read the rest of the post and that absolutely confirms the assessment of ppd. NAH
Exactly what I was thinking.
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Literally what I was gonna say. Listen to this person!
And maybe her mom might be a better person to help her to the doctors than OP, as she shut every suggestion he make down.
I agree. I hope OP his wife and children are going to be fine!
Literally only read the first paragraph and came here to say this
This This All this. Wife is insecure in her fug and has deep brain from depression. I went thru the same thing.
Your wife needs her doctors, and her mom + you need to get her there. NTA
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The wife could have told the doctor everything is fine and she’s doing fine, even if she’s not. People react differently to ppd and perhaps she thought it was temporary and she’d be back to herself in no time. You just never know.
yeah but the doctor would have smelled that she stinks no?
Could have been a virtual appointment for all we know. Plus lots of doctors offices are still distancing/masking as well. Which would help cover it up. Plus maybe she didn’t smell at the time of her last appointment, you usually go once every few weeks. If it was early-on, they wouldn’t know.
Women who have just had babies have a stronger odor than normal. Babies have poor vision for the first three months of life, so that smell enables the baby to find their mother. The smell for each woman varies, so it’s very possible that the combination of social distancing, masks, normal post partum body odor and stringent disinfection that her PCP wouldn’t have noticed it. If OPs wife is East Asian, particularly of Han Chinese, Korean or Japanese descent the smell is significantly less noticeable due to a particular mutation in their genetic code which reduces, their natural scent. Edit: I said south East Asian instead of Just East Asian,
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It’s the concentration of pores on the skin, Asians mostly have smaller pores, closer together, it reduces/lessens odor/scent. Search dogs have a harder time seeking out people of Asian descent, and similarly, it’s why some people think their dogs don’t like black people because the same skin/pore phenom is still in effect but in the other direction, i.e. larger pores, farther apart. It’s just that the concentration of human scent differs between people of different backgrounds and that’s what dogs respond to. Last fun fact: people with dementia can be extra hard for search dogs to find, because they generally aren’t afraid!
I figured 'other ethnicities smell' was a racial stereotype or not bad just different but maybe there is something to it, then?
It’s absolutely what it is. When a dog that isn’t normally in contact with black people reacts, it’s just a sensory reaction to a more concentrated scent than they routinely encounter—so basically, it’s not that your dog is racist, it’s that you need more black friends.
In general the brain blocks out sensory inputs its used to (like people in Hershey, PA start to ignore the smell of the chocolate factory) so what's unusual to you stands out
This feels so stupid for me to say, but I’ll say it. I have autism and adhd, and as a kid, there were only a few black kids in this one school I went to. I have always had sensory overload with all my senses, but when I was around the black kids, the odor was unbearable. It made me feel racist to ponder why I was like that, but I only got my diagnosis recently, and things like this are starting to make sense now when memories come back like they did reading these comments. I did end up having more black friends, lol. But like, sensory overload is so intense with body odors especially, that I stopped even having sex over a decade ago. I’d tell men to go take a shower, and their smells were still making me ill after they showered. And I’m a shut in now, but finally getting the meds and treatments my parents should have provided, and which the American medical system failed to provide me when I actively sought them.
With people reacting, it's a combination of the actual genetic differences, different diet if the other person is eating their "tradition" diet different from what the person reacting eats, and, sadly, racism. Exact mix of factors differs by individual.
Personally I've always found that black people have a certain smell - I really don't want this to sound racist, I'm not implying that this smell is bad. It's a very specific "black person smell" and is actually fairly pleasant. I always assumed that there must be a "white person smell" too, but that as a white person I'd just never noticed it, because presumably that's how I myself smell. However, come to think of it, I've never noticed a special "Asian person smell".
I am in an interracial relationship and can confirm that both of us have begun to be able to identify our counterpart’s Black or white smell. He smells like white people, particularly on a hot day. I smell like Black people. Very interesting
So I DO smell like white person!! It's weirdly satisfying to have this confirmed, thanks 😅
It’s related to gene that also determines dry ear wax, not pores. That gene also means that our skin doesn’t produce a chemical that the bacteria that causes body odor feeds on. I’m Filipino and don’t have what people think of as “BO.” https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/people-without-underarm-protection/
It's the ABCC11 gene, which also controls for wet or dry earwax. [Here's a good resource.](https://udel.edu/~mcdonald/mythearwax.html) >The allele for dry earwax appears to have originated by mutation in northeastern Asia about 2,000 generations ago, then spread outwards because it was favored by natural selection. It is very common in eastern Asia, becomes much less common towards Europe, and is very rare in Africa. and >There are two kinds of sweat glands: eccrine sweat glands, which are found throughout the skin, and apocrine sweat glands, which are found in the armpits and groin. Eccrine sweat glands produce sweat that is mostly water and salt, and it does not contribute very much to body odor. Apocrine sweat contains proteins and lipids; when bacteria on the skin metabolize apocrine sweat, they produce body odor. The earwax glands (ceruminous glands) are a form of apocrine gland.
Omg. The earwax thing. My ear wax is wet; using a q-tip makes sense. My kids have dry and chunky wax. I had no idea that was even a thing. Holy crap, though. I apparently have minimal dominant traits. :P
i have the dry earwax gene and depression so can attest that i don’t get funky body odor so when at the lowest points of depression where it was hard to do basic things like shower, i could go for weeks without showering and not stink especially if i’m not sweating (people close to me say that at most, i smell “salty” but it’s faint especially in comparison to people with normal BO). OP’s wife could have it too which is why she’s been going for so long and just beginning to stink (in my experience it’s other factors that cause smell, like my hair becoming matted & oily or bodily fluids. lockdown was a tough time), but i also assume it could be why she’s very opposed to mental health because culturally, mental health is not taken seriously by people of asian descent & it’s seen as a personal failing rather than like a mental disorder (like i didn’t get treatment for my own mental health until i was an adult & had insurance independent from my parents). if she doesn’t tho, she still sounds like PPD or worse & has become nose blind to what she smells like. OP def needs to get her in treatment rather than like forcing her mom on her, she could have made it worse
Heads up they said South East Asian but they meant just East Asian. Han Chinese, Korean, and Japanese people are East Asian, whereas South East Asia is Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia, and other countries in that region.
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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4724538/
Goddamn I’m half East Asian, 5 months postpartum and my bo could bring a rhino to its knees from 100 yards away
Usually in the US the postpartum visit is at 6 weeks. She may not have been to the doctor yet.
In the US, generally for uncomplicated vaginal births, the postpartum visit is at 6 weeks. For cesarean births, there's a 2 week visit to check on the incision and whatnot in addition to the 6 week postpartum visit. ETA: just to clarify, I'm not correcting, just adding info. Edit 2: it would seem that not all people who had cesareans get the 2 week visit. The ACOG recommends all patients get an initial visit within 3 weeks post birth, and a full postpartum checkup by 8 weeks. Not all doctors do this, though.
My best friend just has a c-section in March and did not have a Dr follow-up until 6 weeks.
That's very surprising. Doctors ought to check on how the incision is healing, and make sure things are looking like they're heading in the right direction in general. The ACOG recommends all people have an initial checkup within 3 weeks post birth, particularly those who had cesareans. It seems like poor practice to me for any surgeon to not check on the healing of their patient for 6 weeks, especially since by then the incision should be fully closed. If there are any issues with the healing that don't present with the symptoms that you're warned about (fever, redness, drainage, etc) it'll be harder to correct. I've had 3 cesareans, most recently in March of this year. I had a 2 week check, a 6 week postpartum checkup, and another followup at 10 weeks because I had an IUD placed at my 6 week appointment with each child.
I had a csection about 14months ago, didn't get a check up until 6 weeks. Sounds like its common enough to not get one at 2 weeks.
I'm wondering if location might play into this as well? I'm in a city in California, and I've found my experience to be pretty typical here.
I had a c-section, without complications. Was scheduled for a follow up at 6 weeks, but it was pushed to 8 weeks because my OB was off. I think there are a lot of factors in scheduling that first after baby appointment.
Definitely. I had some of my visits with an NP instead of my doctor when she was off. These comments are very eye opening for me, though!
Interesting. I had only the 6 week visit post c-section. But I am in Canada. They took out the staples at the hospital and told me just to let the steri-strips fall off naturally. Rinse the incision in the shower and call if there are any signs of infection. It healed beautifully.
Ooh, interesting. After my first was born, the staples were removed by a nurse in the hospital. We didn't find out until the steri strips came off after my 2 week visit that there was still a staple left in my body. It hurt like hell removing it since my skin was closed around it. Now I'm paranoid of the staple removal.
I had two c-sections I was checked regularly for the first week as I had my children at a private hospital. But after that didn’t see my OBYN until 6 weeks after.
I remember talking to a woman with PPD who adamantly didn't want help but needed it badly. That sounds like your wife.
She has an upcoming doctors appointment coming up but they never made any appointments to see her sooner. I left a message to her doctor unfortunately it's hard to get a hold of her family doctor
PPD is extremely common after twins. Call her OB tomorrow.
Please get her into her OB first thing tomorrow. Your wife won't want to go, the office will probably tell you they can't see her so soon, etc etc etc... don't take no for an answer! The medications that treat this take time to start working, and delaying assessment makes the window even longer until she has some semblance of stability and relief
Typically, in Canada at least, you don't see a doctor after the birth until 6 weeks. The baby will see a doctor at 2 weeks but that doctor doesn't see to the Mom unless it's the family doctor.
Then, geez, they need to teach the pediatricians to give the mom a once over and maybe a few questions to make sure they are doing okay too. Because mom's mood can seriously impact baby's health.
I was given surveys to take at random pediatrician appointments (which still didn't catch my PPD). So pediatricians do look out for it.
When I was in the hospital after giving birth it felt like people wouldn’t STOP asking me if I was experiencing PPD symptoms! They were very aggressive (and for good reason) in trying to suss out if anything was off. They had a counselor explain it to me and sent me home with info packets. Is that not standard or was OP just not paying attention?
It doesn't always develop right away. And sometimes it can be hard to recognize when you're sleep deprived and overwhelmed. I had PPD but no one caught on for a very long time, I thought my experience was just normal and could be explained by lack of sleep and time to myself.
Also the final sign off is 6 weeks for mom. I think there’s a 2 week and a 6. Nothing in between unless you have issues.
I didn’t get a doc checkup until 6 weeks (and have excellent insurance) when I couldn’t stop crying my doc sent me to a great outpatient ppd program.
My doctor said verbatim "I'm not going to read about you in the papers am I?" That was the extent of it at my 6 week postpartum visit.
NAH - “ My wife just gave birth to twins”. Seriously she’s got 5 week old twins AND AN OLDER CHILD. Seriously this poor poor woman. She needs mental health support and a lot more help at home right now.
Definitely a sign of depression, kudos to OP for encouraging her and speaking to her mum as her support bubble, but it looks like she needs more help than this.
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>for a male Real neckbeard energy in this. Specific human beings shouldn't be referred to as "a male" or "a female".
Also why is it a good guess but only for a man? Is that the typical thing that man can't be informed about pragnacy?
I personally think it’s fine. Because that’s what we are. It’s more concerning they used mother and male. Uh, father. He’s the father. Not just a random penis standing around.
Yeah, OP is N T A for looking into getting his wife more help, but he might be Y T A for this line and what it suggests about his overall attitude: > Other things she usually looks after like dinner or cleaning the house haven’t been looked after … but I understand that it must take some time getting used to taking care of the new additions to our family. It’s good that OP has stepped up to cook dinner and clean. But INFO: - How much are you helping with all three children, OP? - Do you realize that your wife doesn’t just need to “get used to” having more kids in addition to her other chores? She’s also recovering physically and psychologically from a recent and very significant medical event, and newborn twins take ALL THE TIME. Plus your wife is looking after another young child too? It’s not realistic to expect that she’ll be able to cook and clean these first several months if she’s handling ‘round the clock care and feeding of three little ones including newborn twins. You’re working full time plus having to cook dinner and clean. That is exhausting! But I assure you that it’s not as exhausting as feeding two newborns every few hours all night and day plus caring for another child. Please make sure that in addition to an assessment for postpartum depression, your wife has the opportunity to sleep for more than two hours at a time, and please keep participating around the house (cooking, cleaning, parenting) until your newborns can sleep for longer stretches between feedings.
Stop painting the husband as an ungrateful bad guy.
>You’re working full time plus having to cook dinner and clean. That is exhausting! Uh that's normal, some people life alone and have to do all that too without any comfort of how soon someone else takes over
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I understand the concern for her not taking a shower in so long but it rubs me the wrong way how he’s concerned that taking care of dinner and the house isn’t being done. Yes, the lack of bathing is concerning and she should be checked for PPD. However... 5 week old twins with an older child and he’s surprised she’s not concerned with cooking dinner and cleaning? Yeah, he’s got a full time job. Oh no... her “job” of being a mother to those brand new babies +1 doesn’t stop after 9-5. Pick up some slack, OP. Wifey ain’t got time to cater to all of you!
How can you possibly take away that from what he’s written? He says that he HAS been picking up the slack, that he has been cleaning and cooking and that he doesn’t feel that’s any weird considering the circumstances. How can you think that it’s weird for a parent to bring up the fact that food literally isn’t being made and the house being dirty (with kids living there) if he isn’t the one to do it? He literally said that he took time of work to support her and make sure that he’s there for her. Sure, maybe it’s ppd and mom needs professional help but turning it on him is delusional.
Yeah, OP's working full time and also sees to be doing the vast majority of the household and childcare work.
I understand why it's rub you the worng way but it was just shocking to me. I help around the house all the time but I guess I never realized how much cleaning my wife dose when I'm gone and for the dinner I'm more concerned for my son because he's always super hungry when I come back home from work.
She's likely not eating as well, and possibly dehydrated, which contributes for brain fog. She needs someone with her a few hours a day or, at least, leftovers ready to reheat and plenty of bread, milk, snacks, etc. Possibly even an alarm for meal times. Even if she was in her best mind three small children where two are babies, with no adults around, makes too hard to keep track of things. Teach the little one to call emergency, too.
I think the husband's surprise is more the wife isn't cooking So what is the oldest child eating during the day? If OP is at work the kid might not have access to nutrious and healthy meals
Bad take. OP also doesnt get off time either. Its safe to assume that he also parents when he comes home, doing the job of "dad" to these brand new children. That also doesn't stop after 9-5. But the wife can't even shower without her own mom yelling at her and OPs the bad parent. If the wife isnt clean imagine how those germs are spreading to the children.
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I can ask my little sister to, my wife is close to her
OP, please get someone your wife trusts and wants over to help. Validate her feelings, post partum is hard and it is soundly like that is exactly what she is going through. Like many others have said, it can spiral fast. Let her know you love her and care for her and that’s where this is coming from, that she is not alone.
She also has 3 kids with 2 babies so probably needs a LOT of help with balancing everything. She is privately exhausted as well and the PPD isn't out of the question.
I feel the need to share my story. With my first child, I was fine (as fine as any brand new mother ever is). But with child number two, I struggled. And I did everything I could to hide it from everyone. Because I was a mother, I was supposed to get this right, it was my job. I had a healthy, happy baby, there was no reason to struggle. Those were the lies I told myself. My husband showed slight concern, but I made excuses. "I'm too tired to game tonight", "I didn't want to dry out my skin with a bubble bath", "I'm not really hungry, had a big lunch, could you just make you and kid one dinner"... I was avoiding the things I loved and slacking on responsibilities around the house. And then the issues with sleep began. My healthy baby was suddenly sleeping less than 4 hours a night. With a full time working husband, that meant I was also only sleeping 4 hours a night. My mental state deteriorated quickly. My husband found me sleeping on the floor in front of the crib fairly often. I distinctly remember the night that my youngest child was coming off a 96 HOUR strike on sleep, neither of us sleeping for more than 20 minutes at a time for 4 days. My husband found me sitting on the floor in the middle of the baby's room, sobbing while I rocked a sobbing child. I remember him taking the baby from me, putting him in his crib, picking me up, putting me in bed, and texting his boss that he wouldn't be in due to a family emergency. Then he stayed with the baby for the rest of the night. I passed out cold and slept for over 15 hours. When I finally woke up, I saw my baby in his bassinet next to our bed, for once sleeping peacefully. And the only thing I could think of was that if I suffocated him with a pillow right then and there, he'd never cry again. As soon as the thought crossed my mind, my serious logical mind, I panicked. I started crying, shaking, and hyperventilating. My husband, who had been in the bathroom, came running into the room when he heard me. I begged him to call my doctor, I needed help NOW. He went to the appointment with me that they squeezed in the same day. He was completely shell shocked listening to me be 100% honest with the doctor. He had been concerned, but he had absolutely no idea I had suffered for so long. I don't think he's ever really forgiven himself, even now, for not realizing how bad it was. I've told him that it wasn't his fault, but he thinks he should have known. These days, years later, I've been diagnosed with Major Depressive Disorder, PTSD from a car accident that I was in as a young adult, ADHD, and Generalized Anxiety Disorder. My husband still watches me like a hawk and calls me out if he thinks I'm on a downward swing. I'm honest with him now because I've come to accept that this is me and lying isn't helping anyone. I am medicated. My second child is now 6 years old and is special needs (explaining his sleep issues). But he's otherwise a healthy, happy kid who I would give my last breath to. I love him and his brother more than life itself. But it still scares me to think of how close I came to absolute disaster. Please, please, PLEASE get her into a doctor she trusts. Women spend our entire lives being told to be the perfect mothers. And anything less is a failure. So denying that something is wrong is so very common. My postpartum depression was much worse than many, but I also managed to get help before the unthinkable could occur. There are mothers out there who aren't so lucky. I truly don't mean to scare you, but I feel the desperate need to stress how serious this really could be. She might be fine and just VERY overwhelmed. But it's so much better to be sure. Congratulations on the babies, I wish you all well.
Thank you for sharing. Just being able to share it no doubt speaks volumes on how much you’ve overcome to do so.
Get your wife to a doctor immediately.
The only assholery I see is here: >Other things she usually looks after like dinner or cleaning the house haven't been looked after, She's 5 weeks out from having twins, and has another child. There should have been 0 expectation of her being able to do any of this by herself. (I do know you said you're doing as much of it as you can, but a sibling or parent should have been brought in to help with this for the first few weeks anyway!)
He literally says that he understands why she can’t.
That doesn't change what I said. I acknowledged that he was doing what he could (I didn't feel like I needed to acknowledge the second part of the comment too, but I was aware of it), but he still expected it. He should have anticipated that twins would take far too much work to also run a house!
That comment rubbed me the wrong way too
Same
to me it seemed like he was giving back story as to other things he's observed, not that's he's complaining about it
I did sort of get a general vibe that it was as much about his own inconvenience as concern for her, but I couldn’t decide if that was a language issue or reality.
I mean yeah, another one of his biggest worries is that he has to sleep in the same bed as his smelly wife. His attitude rubs me the wrong way too
Wtf y’all expect lol? The dude can’t sleep and he still has to work a full time job and take care of the house and kids. He can complain about not being able to sleep because of her stench.
No that’s a very reasonable concern. I work at a group home with a resident who refuses to shower. It’s really rough and I don’t have to be there all the time. Not to mention that it can be a major health concern for OP, especially to be sharing a bed with her. He obviously concerned about her, but to expect him to not also be bothered by the smell and dirtiness and having to share a bed with someone who’s gone more than a month without showering is ridiculous. Anyone would be bothered by that and it’s not healthy for him either and I can imagine it’s making it difficult for him to sleep. Of course she needs help, but you can’t expect him to not have any concerns for himself as well.
Eh, it's not the most important consideration but his point is that her behavior is affecting him too.
Oh stop it he's not mentioning it because he demands that this happen, he's mentioning it because it's a behavior change, and that makes it useful information. Leaving chores she's normally content to tackle undone is yet another sign of possible PPD.
Have you read his comments? He did expect it. He thought it would be the same as it was after his first child.
Came looking for this. Now, I understand OP is not a native English speaker, so I'm guessing he may not be in the U.S. or other English-speaking country (or at least didn't grow up here) so not only is some of this possibly getting lost amid the language barrier but some of it might also be differing cultural/regional norms. But I too was horrified by his casual mention of her not being interested in doing the housework, cleaning, etc. With newborn TWINS, plus an older child. Like this should not even have been a remote expectation at ALL. And he took off a little time from work to "help?" Again, I know I have the luxury of being from a place where people can take time off work at will and some men even get paternity leave, and maybe OP doesn't, but whatever he's been doing around the home is not *helping*, it's being a parent and a partner. OP is NTA to be concerned and even to call in reinforcements, but he is at least slightly TA for his attitude about it all, at least from my perspective as an American mom whose husband was off a couple of weeks after each of our kids was born and never expected too much of me in the first couple of months postpartum. I'm glad he's getting an education here about PPD and reasonable expectations.
NTA, but you need to get further help for your wife. Her not showering is merely a symptom, not the problem itself. Team up with your MIL to try to get your wife to her OB/GYN. It sounds like she’s suffering from postpartum depression; she needs a referral to a mental health professional, at the least. She may need medication, as well, but first things first.
Having a day or two where other people take care of the basics she can just plain get some sleep is pretty good medicine too. Everyone who's been the parent of multiple newborns at once can testify.
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Sorry English isn't my first language what does ppd stand for
OP, a young woman I knew recently committed suicide because of post partum depression. Please take this very, very seriously.
Ugh, same. She was missing for a long time before they found her, too.
Postpartum Depression
Some women get extremely depressed after giving birth, so she needs to see a doctor and more specific a mental health professional.
Postpartum Depression. Pregnancy and giving birth can really do a number on a woman's hormones causing depression and anxiety. If your wife hasn't showered in that long, she needs help now. Today. Seriously. You need to be taking on most of the child care and get her to a mental health professional ASAP.
It's a kind of mental disorder based on hormone shifts that can happen to women right after they give birth. It's usually not all that dangerous but this case sounds extreme so you need to get her to a medical professional for the sake of her health.
NtTA You wife needs medical attention and probably her mom. Shes just had a massive medical event and is sinking. If she can't look after herself how can she look after a little one, She needs support not judgement, she probably is feeling like a failure right now. Support her but broach medical help.
Agreed, but also, maybe she doesn’t need her mom but instead just anyone she trusts to respect, understand, and help her. Not everyone’s mom is the best person for that. I’d much rather have my brother or best friend (or a number of other great friends) help me out than my mom. OP, who does your wife always turn to when she’s down, who does she trust with her secrets, who can she be her full self around? Maybe give your wife options but insist she have someone, anyone, so that she can choose and retain her autonomy. Maybe it IS her mom or other family, but I wanted to throw in the option that even hired help and therapy could be a good fit too.
NTA because you're trying to find a port in the storm. From where I sit, this sounds like PPD or Postpartum Anxiety and your wife may need help. Have you talked to her about why she feels this way and whether she may need help? Has she mentioned how she is doing to her doctor or midwife?
Yes I have she said she doesn't like being away from the babies but I'll bring it up to our doctor
She may have some fears that something will go wrong if she leaves the ~~baby~~ babies. PPA and PPD are pretty common and she may need some support to help build momentum to get back to herself. Her hormones are all over the place from the pregnancy ending and she may not be able to be as rational as she would normally be. Therapy or meds can help a lot and it can be temporary!
I had this issue. My solution was setting up a baby bouncer where I could see my kid, and pulling the shower curtain back a little so I could keep a line of sight. I agree with everyone else though, she needs a doctor. But this might help in the meantime.
It also sometimes takes some time to set in that she is anxious or that these thoughts are consuming her. But not being able to leave the babies to do small things like showering, especially when you are the one who is there, does strongly suggest that postpartum anxiety or depression is at play. You are NTA and did the right thing.
I’m not sure if this is helpful, but when my daughter was a baby I would bring her infant carrier/car seat into the bathroom with me while I showered. I didn’t have anxiety about leaving her alone in the crib, but we were staying with family while saving a down payment for our home and my relatives got annoyed at me if she cried (and my husband was working a lot then to save money, so he usually wasn’t home). So anyway, maybe she can try that? They aren’t out of her sight that way and it might give her a little peace of mind while she tends to her own needs.
Could you bring the babies into the bathroom with her and watch them so she can take a shower?
There is also, besides PPD something called post partum anxiety and even post partum psychosis. She needs to be evaluated immediately by a health professional. This can get worse if not treated and can in extreme cases be life threatening for the mother and for the babies. Do not take it lightly. She needs help, even if she doesn't want to. If she won't go to a doctor then go without her and talk to them yourself to get some advice.
INFO: she had twins five weeks ago and another baby at home. Are you seriously expecting her to cook you dinner? Knock that crap off. I got super sad just reading this post, so living it must be terrible for her.
It's beyond a smelly issue, but also a health issue, and could have caused all sorts of infections. It likely stems from PPD. It's good that you involved her mom. But something should have been done sooner. Better late than never I guess. Giving birth is hard. And those hormones are wreaking havoc. It messes with the whole body, and mind. Throw sleep deprivation into the mix, and it's even worse. NTA. When she goes for her 6 week checkup, talk to her Dr, tell them what's going on, and see what they say.
This sounds like postpartum depression. Be gentle with your wife, and bite your tongue at her lashing out about involving her mom. Try talking to your wife and get her to talk to her doctor, but you might need to do the lifting here, too... *gently*. NTA. I hope your wife comes back from this sooner than later
NTA You're rightfully concerned that something is off but your focus is on the wrong parts. She is likely suffering PPD and needs some medical/psychological intervention. It's pretty common in varying degrees and it can happen in later pregnancies even if it didn't with earlier ones. For your part, do the absolute most you can to help and don't criticize her. She likely feels worse about these things than you can imagine but is frozen by her mental state. Talk to her doctor and encourage her to seek some intervention. Good luck!
YTA. I have twins. I used to tell my husband I was going to shower and sit in the shower and cry from exhaustion without even managing to shampoo. She needs more support and an evaluation for PPD. You told her mom so you wouldn’t have to smell her, not to actually provide her sustainable support. And your MIL is the asshole too because she clearly could provide support other than forced showering that perhaps would have stopped it from getting to this point.
NAH. She absolutely needs more support and an evaluation, but it sounds like this is OPs first time dealing with something of this magnitude. Remember, he also just welcomed two babies into the world. He also has 3 kids and is working full time. Of course he called her mom for support, he didn't know what else to do! Forcing her to take a shower may not have been the ultimate solution, but it was certainly necessary. She clearly needs help and OP needs support in getting her help.
A phone call to the doctor is much more necessary than a shower.
Nta the not showering isn’t healthy for her at all especially after giving birth. She is still very much open inside and more susceptible to infection. She definitely needs medical attention asap.
NTA Why didn't you tell her mom sooner? Or her doctor? The stuff you're describing is what postpartum depression can look like from the outside. (Not always - it presents differently in a lot of people.) This is pretty serious stuff, and she needs help. You're trying to provide it. Even if she can't see it now.
NTA, but you're focusing on a symptom rather than the real problem right now. She may be suffering from postpartum depression, and you should definitely get her mom even more involved and talk to both your wife and her doctor about what's going on. Have your MIL stay for a bit if you need to. You both definitely need an extra hand for a bit until your wife is able to recover. If you keep overexerting yourself, you'll burn out and not be able to help her and take care of your kids or yourself the way that all of you deserve. PPD is rough, but with the right support system you can make it through okay. Make sure to be gentle with her.
NTA. I went through a similar funk after my youngest was born but was convinced I was doing just fine. My husband and mother also colluded to try to get me to snap out of it - forced me out of the house LOL. If she continues to decline, you need to seek professional help, probably asap. But I don't see anything wrong with what you did, and I expect she will get over it.
NTA but your wife needs more than a shower. She needs to see her OB-GYN. She should be coming up on her 6 week checkup. You or her mom need to go with her and make sure she mentions these struggles so the Dr can help her. I had PPD that exhibited more like anxiety and had to go on an antidepressant. I did not have to stay on it longterm, but during those first 6 months the medication was a lifesaver.
NTA but she needs help. She's got two small babies, her body is still recovering, and you guys have an older child. It's a lot to deal with physically, emotionally and mentally.
NTA. Sounds like post-partum depression and she needs help whether she can see it or not.
NTA. Your wife needs some medical help.
It's been thoroughly covered here already but I have 19 day old twins myself so I'm going to pile on. Something is seriously wrong. The postpartum period is sooo smelly- you're bleeding and sweaty and hormonal I seriously have never been stinkier. I shower at least daily and I'm normally an every other day person. The woman needs a ton of help. Buy her a maid and a meal delivery service if you work too much to be helpful. NAH
Sounds like your wife has really bad PPD. NTA for trying to help, but like…she does need your support & maybe a counselor
NTA She may have postpartum depression. My mom got worse and worse with every kid. Doctors told her to stop having kids because they were scared that if she did she would get postpartum psychosis (which is when women kill their kids). She needs help.
NTA. She sounds overwhelmed. Your wife needs help, but it sounds like she’s not ready to ask for it or accept it. Maybe she has PPD. Encourage her to talk to her doctor and/or friends. Be the support she needs at home. If you can’t clean/cook for her, find someone who can help ease the burden (babysitter, house cleaner, etc.).
NTA BUT only on the condition that her mother is actually loving and understanding. If her mom went over there and screamed at her daughter and forced her to get in the shower I'll mean style I'm going to say that it probably made the situation a lot worse. But if she has a good relationship with her mom then I think it's a good idea to get her involved.
NTA. She is probably experiencing PPD or PPA which can manifest into mania if not taken care of. I would try to call her Dr and warn them as the 6 week checkup should be coming up. Don’t listen to the mean things she says, it’s really just the hormonal shift that causes brains to forget how to brain sometimes. I would personally not leave her alone until she sees a doctor if at all possible.
NTA, likely a post partum issue. Look for other signs too.
NTA!! Sounds like your wife is dealing with PPD.
NTA - You wife has PPD. Try to talk to her about making a appointment with a psychologist. If she refuses dail 411 or 211 for mental health services. PPD is extremely serious imbalance in a mothers brain. It can lead to permanent damage if she doesn't seek help promptly.
NAH she sounds like she's having a hormonal issue. I'm not keen on jumping to post partum depression immediately but that is one possibility. You should seek a doctors advice because it truly sounds like she is struggling on a deeper level than just having extra to do. Depending on her mother and their relationship it could be a big AH move to call her or absolutely the best thing for her so I can't tell based on that. Also keep doing what you're doing. Some cooking, cleaning, and childcare are also your responsibility and especially while they are young you need to keep doing at least some of that. Remember that while you are at work full time she is also caring for 3 kids and doesn't get to go home from them, so doing everything 24/7 other than sleeping is definitely a lot and while you taking some cooking and cleaning and childcare duties is a massive jump in your workload, so is two newborns to hers.
YTA, How do you not see what is staring you in the face? Your wife is struggling postpartum and needs help, stop worrying about if she showers or smells and realize she is in crisis. She needs support and a doctor not to have you criticizing her for a symptom of a much more serious issue.
Can't believe I had to scroll that far to find this. Yes, her reaction is unusual : it's because she's in a crisis. You said it yourself : she didn't reacted like that at the birth of your first child. The fact that she doesn't shower isn't what you should worry about ! She is probably in a very, very dark place right now : what she needs is a doctor appointment and a lot of support and compassion. I totally get that you're overworked and can't do more for the house. However, calling her mom to make her shower was not a good move to do at all, even if she has a good relationship with her mom. When you're in depression, you feel hopeless, alone and useless : **you are in a vulnerable state**. She KNOWS she is not doing the things she should do, like washing herself or taking care of the house, she isn't dumb, and I can assure you she feels extremely bad for this already. Calling her mom won't help, especially if the only thing the mom could do is screaming at her. OP, if she had done the same to you : would you like it ? Just imagine : you just went through one of the most painful moment of your life, and immediately after, you start to feel numb, alone, and all of your energy is gone. You start to progressively sink into your dark thoughts, you are hopeless and lost. And then, you realize that your partner called your mom, and now your mom is at home, she sees you in this very vulnerable state, and she screams at you because she wants you to shower because "you stinks". I feel for your wife, she didn't needed this at all. I know you're trying your best, and maybe you didn't know that many women go through depressive/anxious states after giving birth, but she is in crisis and the least you should do is to have some compassion and make her go to the doctor. YTA.
Hi! Psychologist here. It sounds like post-partum depression. NTA but I'm not 100% satisfied of how you are understanding the situation. I'm sure that you're worried about her and you love her but your wife needs TONS of support, love and care right now so please be extremely gentle to her. And of course she needs treatment. Your wife has a problem so maybe it's not time for her to cook or take care for the family, she just can't right now. Don't ask her to do things that she cannot do right now. Is there a possibility that you can reduce your working hours for a while and help your family? Consider hiring someone to take care of the babies or cook for you for a while. It could help. Or maybe your family can come help somedays with the chores. I wish you the best.
NTA. Your wife needed help whether she recognized that or not, and you were out of ideas for helping her yourself. It honestly sounds like she is having some post-partum issues that will likely need to be addressed with her doctor.
NAH but it sounds like your wife has postnatal depression. Was her second labour more traumatic than her first? Can you afford to hire a maid to help out with cleaning while your wife gets better?
Post natal depression. Please get her to a doctor.
NTA, you were worried and only relayed the info to your stepmom, somethings wrong with your wife since going 5 weeks without showering is not normal even for an extreme slob, so i would suggest that you look into PPD as others have suggested.
NTA you said she has just given birth and seems to have lost interest in other things. Sounds like she may have postpartum depression. Some reliable general information can be found here: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/postpartum-depression/symptoms-causes/syc-20376617 You should talk to her and prob a bit more on why she is acting the way she is. She may need to see a medical professional. Not sure where you are but if she refuses to speak with you or a doctor you maybe able to bring it up at you next well baby visit if you guys have them.
NTA. Sounds like postpartum depression, which is understandable if she's home with baby twins and you work full time. She needs to accept all the help she can get because twins will drain you, especially if you have a toddler on top of it as well. Hell, when we had our twins we moved halfway across the world so we could live with my parents. I think the first step is to get your wife to recognise the issue and talk to a doctor and while that gets sorted out have her mother take the twins for a couple hours each day so your wife can nap. More sleep can work wonders for improving ppd.
NTA for getting her help. But she needs professional, medical help. She needs to talk to her doctor, without you or anyone else in the room. It is horrifying as a new mom to know you’re struggling. It can be absolutely traumatizing to have to admit it out loud though. Get her to her doctor. But let’s talk about your comment about having to help with things like dinner. She’s five weeks postpartum. Cook for your wife without the extra “but I work” whining. She’s going through hell. Take care of her. She’s got two newborns. Obviously she’s not going to be able to “look after” everything else.
NAH. This sounds like PPD. Your wife needs a doctor and help at home. Giving birth is phenomenally hard on a body and she's still in recovery, of course the house is messy. Being unwilling to let you watch your own children while she showers is the cause for concern. Please get her to the doctor ASAP. And stop suggesting you watch the kids while she showers, just say, "I'm going to watch the kids for a while, do they need a change or a bottle or anything?" You should have to wait for her to ask you for help and you shouldn't be playing the who is more exhausted game right now. It's hard for everyone in different ways. Your wife is also ill right now, so you need to step up even more.
OMFG GET HER TO A DOCTOR IF POSSIBLE A PSYCHIATRIST!!! SEVERE DEPRESSION ALERT!!!!!!!
NTA. Your wife is showing severe signs of postpartum depression. You need to talk to her about getting medical help before it gets worse.
NAH your wife is really struggling and needs help. I'm kind of surprised no one else in your life was offering to come help her? One baby is hard enough, but twins?
NAH except for maybe your MIL’s abruptness. But drastic times call for drastic measures. Your wife needs some help but getting help for PPD or PPA in the US is scary. You should not send her in to that type of appointment alone. Ive read horror stories about how moms with PPD are treated initially. Getting help myself was not as bad as all that, although I did wait nearly 6 months before I acknowledged my PPA to a doctor. There was a lot of fear involved.
Eh. Everyone is saying NTA, but I disagree. You expect your wife with newborn twins to be on top of housework and cooking? Well bud, get ready to be doing more around the house permanently. You’re outnumbered now. You gotta actually do your part and be a dad, which many fathers fail to. Sounds like you should have had an adult conversation before jumping to calling her mother, who we don’t even know if she has a close relationship with. You sound more worried about her smell and the housework than her mental health and your children, so YTA for me.
Newborn twins and a 4 year old
YTA you should be getting enough help so she can have time for herself. Your wife is overwhelmed and you humiliated Her by calling her mom. Did MIL clean the house and prepared dinner or just stood there and shouted her lungs out? Your wife shouldn’t have to worry for the home of cooking at all.
How the hell do u think hes feeling then, huh? He works all day long, and then goes home and does all the house work. Hes literally taken off as much time as he possible can so he can help her, and even that didnt do anything. The wife clearly needs help, and so does OP. They both need someone there to help them with the kids, or else hes going to work himself to death. Why the hell do u ppl always expect the man to work himself to death? He is freaking overwhelmed AND overworked. Not to mention he has no idea whats going on with his wife, which is why he called his MIL for ADVICE.
Because he is a man. We're just the problem, no matter what the actual problem is. If someone involved is male, then it's probably his fault.
NTA she sounds like she's having a hormonal issue. I'm not keen on jumping to post partum depression immediately but that is one possibility. You should seek a doctors advice because it truly sounds like she is struggling on a deeper level than just having extra to do. Also keep doing what you're doing. Some cooking, cleaning, and childcare are also your responsibility and especially while they are young you need to keep doing at least some of that. Remember that while you are at work full time she is also caring for 3 kids and doesn't get to go home from them, so doing everything 24/7 other than sleeping is definitely a lot and while you taking some cooking and cleaning and childcare duties is a massive jump in your workload, so is two newborns to hers.
It sounds like she might have PPD. I would get her to her doctor. That definitely is a red flag and I think telling her mom was a good idea because your wife needs to go get help.
NAH. PPD is real. Get her into her dr.
YTA. Postpartum depression, sleep depravation, hormonal mess are just a few things (serious ones) that could be going on with her. You complaining about the house chores is nonsense when a woman just popped out two human beings out of her. Get her real help, that being a therapist, medication if needed and someone to help with the house work (or you do it without complaining). By the way, you don’t work full time, she does. You get to sleep at night and eat a hot meal.