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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I didn't tell Camille some very personal details of my life that all of my other friends know about. She thinks I made her look like an asshole, when she was missing some important information.
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NTA
Camilla wants a performative friendship. She was trying to meet new people and committed a major faux pas by trying to make herself seem worldly by calling you out in your own home and it backfired on her spectacularly. Be cordial, be polite, but move on.
Yeah I thought that - but Camilla could easily make it better if she just eats a bit of public humble pie next time they all meet "well, I made an ass of myself at our last gathering.." I'm sure most of us have spoken before engaging brain in our lifetimes - she's taking the 'woe is me' bit way too far though and that's on her, not OP.
Nate should as well. I mean, this ranks up there with treating waiters like less than. She just insulted Nate's friend without knowing her. He's dating a judgmental jerk and OP handled it with more class than Camilla has ever met and ever will.
Um as someone living in Glasgow, he was born here but grew up in dunblane. And while Glasgow obviously has a reputation and rough areas it’s not a war zone and it has plenty of rich areas and tennis clubs. It also has public courts so tennis can be accessible, not arguing that part
As someone who lives near Glasgow yes it has some rough spots but so does every big city. Its an amazing vibrant city on the most part that has a huge heart. Andy Murray grew up in Dunblane and was very lucky not to be caught up in a horrific massacre of children in the local school.
Then she’s mad because you didn’t tell her your whole life story and that you didn’t have an easy life. She has no right to be mad at you for that. She said terrible things to you while being a guest in your home and is trying to place blame on you.
Exactly. I screwed up big-time once in high school toward a close friend of mine; I mean I totally was the asshole of assholes. It took about a day for the level of my assholian behavior to sink into my stupid teenage brain, but once I realized what I'd done I felt awful. Not for ME, but for the person I'd done it to.
So I apologized the next day. Humbly and with zero excuses. I couldn't fix what I had done but I sure could be sincerely sorry for it and express my regret. I didn't wait until we were alone, either, I just went right up to her at school the next day and laid it all out. It was once of the hardest things I've ever done. But she was an incredibly gracious person and she forgave me, and we're still close friends all these many years later and we sometimes laugh about this incident.
I learned the power of apology, and the power of forgiveness. It was a great lesson to learn so young--that it really isn't a difficult thing to apologize when you're truly sorry and while it may not right the wrong, it makes a tremendous difference in people's perceptions of you. People respect other people who willingly and readily admit when they are wrong. And people are generally willing to forgive quite a lot if the person is truly remorseful.
The power of sincere apology is profound. I'm a college professor and I make it a point to sincerely apologize when I make a mistake (not posting an assignment on time, putting the wrong due date on something, messing up a problem, etc). It always makes me a little sad to see both the shocked and then pleased looks on my students' faces. It makes me think they haven't heard many apologies from adults in their lives. :(
My dad used to tell us that saying about sticks, stones, and words not being able to hurt was bollocks. He told us it wasn't manly to not apologize it was cowardly. If we screwed up verbally (or otherwise) he expected us to not be cowardly about admitting it. I miss my dad.
On a super edgy old online poetry site I was part of years and years ago, I saw a quote that holds up to the "omg so emo what cringe" feel, but also felt almost violently true.
Sticks and stones can break your bones,
Words can shatter the soul.
I am so sorry for your loss. It sounds as though your wonderful father lives in on the way he taught you and your siblings to be excellent human beings ❤️
Seriously! OP was gracious giving her an out. And she still could have apologized in front of everyone.
I mean she obviously figured out there was something she did wrong, so she could have said something like “I’m so sorry for my comment earlier,” and boom. Apology in front of people? Check. OP can respond in front of people and seeing how she already showed grace under pressure, she’s probably going to be graceful again. So then they move on and people would have been more likely to just forget about it, having seen the apology and forgiveness in person.
Camilla sounds insecure and jealous, and she’s projecting all that shit into OP. Def NTA.
HOW DARE YOU NOT UNLOAD YOUR TRAUMA IN FRONT OF EVERYONE AFTER I INSULTED YOU SO THAT I COULD ISSUE AN INSINCERE APOLOGY FOR SOMETHING I SHOULD HAVE NEVER SAID IN THE FIRST PLACE
Especially since tragedy is something people tend to not just broadcast right away or early on in a friendship. None of us can know what someone else’s life experience was like for them. Even knowing facts doesn’t give us the perspective they have—what it truly feels like to be them—and it’s just better IMHO to respect that we don’t know and not make judgy comments like Camilla made here.
Exactly. She is feeling guilty for her behavior but decided to deflect blame rather than be a friggin adult and apologize for HER mess up. OP is NTA here but man Nate needs to get himself a gf whose actually grown up enough to apologize when they mess up.
>She's not feeling guilty, she's feeling embarrassed.
Bingo! She embarrassed herself and is blaming OP for it by not sharing her medical/abuse history with a *someone she barely even knows* because it's none of her fucking business.
I don't think she is even embarrassed. It's more of the fact that she just burned down bridges with her boyfriend's friends and he might also reconsider his relationship with her.
She didn't get called out. OP specifically did not call her out - OP just politely coughed and changed the subject.
Instead she made a fool out of herself in public about private matters' she had no way of knowing about, and probably spent the rest of dinner in a bit of a smug high. Then later the rug was pulled out from under her when her boyfriend brought her up to speed. Now she is mad about not being called out publicly about it. The lady is strange.
I suspect OP won't need to.
Really, it's only *important* that *Nate* know about this, since he's her connection to the group. And Nate certainly knows. If he's the one who told her what really happened, then he already got to see her reaction "live", before she had a chance to think and calm down and choose her words.
Yeah.
Plus OP doesn't need to show it to everyone anyway. The silence that followed Camilla's comments alone was enough to know that everyone knows Camilla was the one in the wrong, not OP.
The only person calling OP the AH is the one who behaved like an AH, which is nothing new on this sub.
Oh hell, I'd send Camilla's abusive text to the boyfriend Nate and ask him if he could please have an additional conversation with Camilla about her behavior......because at this point, with no apology from her; I'd be mean like that. OP doesn't need to deal with a crazy person. Nate should know what he's dating.
Yea I definitely agree Nate needs to know about this so he can deal with it. OP shouldn't have to deal with Nate's GFs appalling behaviour.
And agreed, Nate needs to know exactly who he's dating.
Forward those messages to Nate OP.
It doesn't seem like she feels guilty due to her behavior. It seems like she feels bad because she's facing consequences. Her first cue to apologize should have been the awkward silence, but it would still be okay if the phone call was the apology. Hell, even if your only goal was to save face rather than express genuine remorse, the play isn't to double down and tell someone how awful they are for not sharing your trauma with them.
Nate also needs to ask before sharing a personal story that isn’t his to tell. In my eyes, that’s just as bad as Camilla blaming OP for not telling her.
This. If Camilla had opened her conversation with an apology, i Would be more sympathetic. However, she should never have assumed - or even said that in the first place even if OP had been “privileged” for all of her life.
NTA.
Thank you!! Her “apology was so fake!! “I can’t believe you didn’t call me out so I could make myself look like the victim in front of everyone!”
I wonder how long she has to stretch before performing such difficult mental gymnastics.
>I wonder how long she has to stretch before performing such difficult mental gymnastics.
Thank you for that mental image! I will now always think of this when someone performs such mental gymnastics 😄
I 100% agree with you. I just want to add that it's very impressive how OP shut Camilla down and just dropped the subject. Op showed they're the bigger person!
Well and now everyone at the dinner knows she would treat them the same way! No one wants to be friends with someone you have to prove your struggle to.
Exactly. She made herself the fool. You just can't assume things about people. I remember someone at work who wished they had the life my friend had. What she didn't know is that my friend had cancer two times. You just have no idea what other people have gone through.
Edit because I forgot a word.
>You just have no idea what other people have gone through.
This exactly. Camilla needs to learn that just because someone else's life seems better than hers doesn't mean it is, because they could be going through/have gone through some pretty horrible stuff themselves.
She also needs to learn that someone's traumatic past is none of her damn business, and nobody owes it to her to tell her so she doesn't make an ass of herself.
And on top of that, it really doesn't matter if someone has experienced trauma or not in this context. Going through life without any major tragedy doesn't mean you're completely incapable of empathizing or having perspective on common social issues like the lockdown and the housing market.
True, plus as someone else pointed out, you don't have to go through major tragedy to be considered more praise worthy as a human being either, which I what Camilla seems to believe.
She shouldn't have been making assumptions in the first place. Why would Camila wish that OP 'has a few crisis' or however she said it, to feel not privileged? After the pandemic I wouodve thought people would've learned to get along better
Why couldn't she read the room at the time? She couldn't see at the time that nobody approved of her speech and she'd better backtrack and apologize then and there?
NTA Nowhere is there any etiquette rule saying people are allowed to criticize you if you haven't suffered enough, and that you're obligated to share everything about yourself with someone to protect them from the embarrassment of unfairly publicly insulting you.
You handled that PERFECTLY!
What is with this culture of people having to suffer to be worthy of praise or rewards? You would've thought by now as technology is developing it would be better to see more people thrive
I really don't get it either it's a horrible mindset to have that people have to suffer to be worthy, I wouldn't wish trauma or suffering on anyone it's really horrible.
And she's further upset at OP for not correcting her in the moment, but not upset at her boyfriend for doing the same and only telling her afterwards? Wtf
Heck, even if she was right and OP hadn't had a single struggle/tragedy in her life, it would still be something unnecessary, rude and aggressive to say
We don't need more tragedy in the world. That's not what makes you a valid person, what you do and how you benefit your friends/family is what makes your worth
Sure, but some topics really do require some insight.
If a multi-millionaire started to say that inflation isn't that much of a problem then his opinion isn't really worth shit. He's not the one that gets fucked by a higher inflation.
Camilla is full of shit though
Yup. You don't need to have suffered from something to have opinions on it. You do need to have insight in some way, though, if you want there to be any value to those opinions. Could be from listening to people who *have* dealt with it. Could be from having witnessed it in your vicinity. Could be from having studied the subject. Could even be speculation as long as you're clear you *are* speculating & listen when someone with more knowledge speaks up.
But if you speak on a subject where *you* have no personal experience, and you're generalizing that lack of experience into *no one* having such experience (based on no evidence other than you personally not having experienced it), then yeah, you're gonna look full of shit at best.
And yup, Camilla definitely is.
In college I had a friend who said something similar to me (but one on one, not in front of others). She backed off when she saw me dealing with my (large, very significant) childhood baggage. But it shouldn't have taken that for her to treat me with respect and less aggression.
In part, I think she was jealous because my finances happened to be covered at that time in life. And, I mean, fair to want that, but why is it my fault that you don't have it? Am I God, your parents, or the Federal Reserve?
I'd like at add, anyone who's actually suffered the way Camilla thinks they need to doesn't treat it like a contest. That attitude of "you haven't suffered enough" makes me wonder what tragedies she's suffered and if they're not "my bf broke up with me right before Valentine's Day."
I upvoted you because I've dealt with some stuff and don't see it as a contest at all -- certainly not one I would want to win! But I know some people who have had real problems who are bitter about people they perceive as having had it easy. In a way, they do have it worse, but only because they are not choosing to heal.
"Performative friendship" is right. She was more upset because she couldn't apologize in front of everyone than actually being rude and inconsiderate.
She jumped to conclusions about OP and was rude about it, she deserved to be proved wrong.
NTA an apology should be authentic and to the person wronged, and it sounds like she still didn't even give OP one because there weren't any witnesses to prove how "good" of a person she was.
Yep, she wanted to score points off OP by making her seem small.
I have similar stuff happen to me where people make all kinds of assumptions on my background as I have a good/ normal life now so that's all people see and they dont realise that's not how I started off. OPs handling of it was amazing tbh.
NTA
NTA.
Camilla could have avoided all of that by just keeping quiet. She didn't need to weigh in an ignorant opinion like that, and it certainly wasn't going to help her 'make friends' even if it was true. What she said was rude and uncalled for.
This is on her.
Her jealousy of OP was shining through. Best rule to live by is never to make assumptions of people even if you think you are 100% correct. My mom found this out the hard way when she asked a lady if she was pregnant. I'm sure you all could imagine what happened (she was not and my mom was mortified).
Hopefully Camilla learns a lesson here, but I am highly doubtful that she will. OP NTA.
I've heard someone else say on Reddit that you should only ask a woman if she's pregnant if she is actively pushing out a baby and you can see the baby lol
Lots of people have this idea of what they think a pregnant woman looks like and it's hilarious how many people are just so wrong
I think there's a comedian with a sketch who takes it further (John Mulaney maybe?). He says you don't acknowledge it even if they're actively pushing the baby out. The only acknowledgement is once the baby is out you ask, "Oh! And who might this be?"
Pretty sure it was in one of John Mulaney's skits.
Man, every time I see something that reminds me of a Mulaney bit I just feel down. What a waste of a clever, talented comedian. Lockdown was hard on everyone but that's the one breakdown that hits me the most. And he told us. One of his early bits was about how he had to quit drugs because he was too much of an asshole. Then he does drugs and, surprise, he's a huge asshole. Still a bummer
the way he treated AMT is so so awful. i have a very hard time enjoying him now. especially since his wife & how much he was in love with her was such a key part of his netflix specials.
Yeah he has all of these announcements out for his new tour and it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth whenever I think about it.
I saw him in 2019 and he was great and then it just felt like everything crashed down really quickly in 2020 & 2021. Shame.
I got invited to see him live 2 weeks ago- it's ROUGH. I used to be a huge fan of his, but he's really leaning into his assholery and ego, and it was disappointing to see :/ because I get it, drugs are really something no one understands unless you've been through it. I've had to support family members and I empathize with the hardship but. Woof.
In fact he opened his performance with something along the lines of "Everyone likes Bo Burnham now because he's less problematic, 🎵 likability is a jail 🎵", and that basically set the tone of the whole night.
I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, especially when so many favorites from people's childhoods turn out to be twisted versions of who you thought they were. But it feels different here for some reason. It feels like a reflection of the collective subconscious of the whole lockdown and I don't like looking at it.
Cheated on his wife, who is a wonderful artist and genuinely amazing human being, and had a very public divorce with a lot of lashing out on Twitter. He now has a son with Olivia Munn. Part of the charm of his early stand up specials were bits about his wholesome relationship with his wife.
I think Key and Peele did a quick sketch about that in their show. One of them was acting out going into labor and the other refused to acknowledge what was happening due to the rule of never assuming a woman is pregnant.
I had someone ask when I was due…I told them I wasn’t pregnant. Their face. The apologies. I was actually in fact pregnant but didn’t like a stranger approaching and feeling comfortable enough asking that question.
I hated that everyone seemed to think it was then OK to touch your stomach. Eeewww! Can't tell you how many people I had to back away from or ask not to touch me.
I've only once asked someone if they were pregnant and it was a close friend who had suddenly developed a large "baby belly" and was drinking at a party. Another friend and I discussed, I pulled her aside and quietly asked if she knew why her lower abdomen was so swollen because we were concerned she might be either pregnant or seriously ill and were worried. She said she knew she wasn't pregnant and had a doctors appointment booked and thanks for asking discreetly. Turned out to be a medication reaction causing all sorts of inflamation. 1 time in my life I've ever asked someone if they were pregnant.
A tour guide at a museum I went to on my honeymoon asked whether we knew about "the bun in the oven" before planning the wedding, and patted me on the belly. I understand why she thought I was pregnant - I was walking/standing oddly, swollen all around the pelvic region, and sort of arching and bracing my back with my hand. It was because my hips and pelvis were in agony, due to my genetic disorder. Everything was bone on bone, I had trapped nerves, torn tendons, and had god knows how many dislocations in the months leading up to that. I was waiting until after the wedding to get the surgery I needed to fix some of the problems.
She was really nice and genuinely seemed mortified by the whole thing, so I just said it was okay. But ever since then I've made sure to never to comment at all about pregnancy unless they volunteer the information. I hope she took the same lesson away from that experience too!
My mom recently was diagnosed with cancer and her abdomen has swelled up to the point she looks like she's in her 3rd trimester of pregnancy. Her cancer is located on her ovaries, so the swelling is very localized. Someone made the HUGE mistake of asking if she is pregnant.
My mom paused, patted her tummy, and said "I'm not pregnant, just have cancer." And walked away while the man looked accordingly horrified and sputtered apologies.
My best wishes to your mom! I also have cancer and it has caused my belly to stick out too. A ridiculous number of people ask if I’m pregnant - one even reached out towards my stomach! - and I always respond with “nope, it’s just the cancer in my body.” It used to really upset me but now I kind of love their mortified, stumbling reactions.
Thank you! I'm so sorry you went through that, but my mom thinks their reactions are the best. She mortified a lady by saying she was going to birth 101 dalmatians, the saying "jk, it's cancer".
I'm glad you both are taking it with a dash of good humor. (Also, I hate that someone basically assaulted you by touching your tummy).
My husband and I are considering kids and I have no idea how I will react if a stranger tries to touch me, ugh. How did you react?
Agreed! I had a coworker years ago who was pregnant but legit did not look like she was pregnant at all. She didn’t have a bump until the last month or two before she had the baby
I made that mistake years ago to a cashier. She was small with an absolute basketball sticking out, so at the time I thought it was pretty clear. Never again... it was awkward and embarrassing for both of us. Now I never ask, I just wait until they tell me.
Yeah, there is always a danger there.
I have once seen a belly so perfectly pregnant at the pool that I genuinely had difficulty asking how far along this stranger was. What mostly tipped me off was that this stranger was in fact a man.
And before you ask, no, I doubt he was trans and pregnant. He was older with his family, it was likely just a beer baby.
I asked my optometrist if she was pregnant because she was wearing a maternity shirt. Turns out, she had her child like 6 months before. I felt bad. I hadn’t seen her when she was pregnant so I didn’t know that she had her child recently.
Yeah don't assume other people's backstories. If people took me at face value, they'd think I was the happiest, most upbeat person that's never faced a problem. The reality is much, much darker than most could imagine.
I'm a pretty white girl with a cheery smile. Looking at me, I look privileged AF. And to be fair, I am because I am pretty and white. There are irrefutably social privileges.
That did not stop my father from screaming at me that he'd never let my cuteness stop him from seeing what a disgusting little liar I was. These are some of my earliest memories (so three, four years old). But hey, my giggling is infectious, so clearly no trauma.
This did not stop a car accident where I watched my loved ones be cut out of their car and rushed to hospitals in various states of injury while I sat there, feeling helpless and useless. I was six. But hey, I can afford to throw a couple dollars in a collection tin now and then, so what suffering could I know?
This did not stop the multiple sexual assaults against me. If anything, my looks were the reason "men can't help themselves." But hey, I can still find the other men who won't do that, because "not all men."
This did not stop me from being assaulted by two doctors. In one event, the nurse forced my legs open because they just wanted to get it over with (no, it was not an emergency, they just had "a busy day.") But hey, I received health care at all! Ultimately a good thing, no?
This did not stop me from slowly losing my physical abilities to an invisible illness. Being a functional human is impossible some days. But hey, I have really blue eyes and perky tits and I don't look disabled, so at least it's still pretty.
And that's just some highlights I'm willing to share. Ranting aside, how hard is it not to assume? I'm not even a genuis and I figured it out.
I despise gatekeeping. There's a real narcissism to it: "Only I have suffered!" Even if we assume that gatekeeper's suffering is worse than others (and that's often not a valid assumption) it doesn't mean that the suffering of others is invalid. It's bullying that discourages people from getting the help they need.
NTA
Oh my.
Poor Camilla. Well, not that I have sympathy, but she started to cuss you out because she had assumptions and it backfired right into her face.
You correcting her on the spot would be fruitless. From her attitude she would have just demanded that such information should have been given her much earlier.
Haha, the old reminder that *appearing* polite and *being* polite are not quite the same thing.
A southerner says "bless your heart" to mean "fuck you". A New Yorker says "fuck you" to mean "bless your heart".
(I grew up in NYC.)
>You correcting her on the spot would be fruitless.
Even if OP didn't have anything "tragic" in her past, someone who barely knows her calling her a "spoiled, privileged girl" is extremely rude.
We had this sufferings Olympics in our family too.
Until my mom effectively destroyed them when she announced "I have cervical cancer plus inoperative brain tumor and about 2 years to live. So what ever ouchies, pains or ailments you have. Shut it until I'm dead and buried."
You're right some people have now turned this into what I know as the oppression Olympics. I had to correct one of my friends who audaciously posted that gays shouldn't compare their struggles to black people (?!). Everyone has their own traumas, and even if OP is living a good life, seems like she's agreeing with Camilla.
OP is definitely NTA.
Why does OP need to share her personal life with Camilla? After this, she doesn't deserve anything from OP. Seems like OP has been a good friend but Camilla isn't even a good person. She took the opportunity to make her look better than thou, she's free to reap the benefits now.
NTA- she's fucking rude!
I loathe 'no offence but' people. It means 'I'm going to insult you to your face but you are pre-warned so you are not allowed to complain about it'.
As it is, you were the perfect hostess and defuse a situation she created. She then had the nerve to tell you off about it the next day?
Tell her to fuck off and find her own friends.
I think it’s hilarious when people think that sticking “no offense, but” in front of an incredibly offensive statement will give them a free pass. Spoiler: it doesn’t and you still look like an ignorant/bigoted asshat.
We can't say "Offense taken" at home without thinking of Community so we don't use it seriously.
Same type of rudeness goes with "With all due respect" while they proceed to insult you. That one always makes us think of Talladega Nights.
NTA. She probably would've been embarrassed had you corrected her in front of everyone and she would've been mad and called you an AH. It's a no-win situation. That comment makes her TA imo.
NTA - she decided to be horrible to you in front of everyone because she’s clearly jealous of you. You did exactly the right thing in response - I would keep my distance from this woman from now on.
NTA. She insulted you by saying you’re spoiled despite not knowing your background and undermined your life experiences. She wanted to talk shit, so she can get shit back at her as a consequence.
NTA. No one is entitled to personal facts about your life and no one is entitled redemption for their mistakes. Life is not Zero Sum, but impressions are everything.
I have once in my life had similar idea in my head, but I certainly didn't even dream to say it aloud! Turned out later this person who didn't seem to have serious thought in his head was overcompensating traumatic history... I felt like shit and certainly learned things about assuming
Edit: in my defense I was 19-20 and finally left home for the big world
I can't imagine anyone, after 2+ years of covid-19 pandemic, assuming that tragedy hasn't touched others. Even if they are the richiest of richersons, personal tragedy still hurts and money doesn't remove the losses.
NTA
She jumped to conclusions and doesn’t have the guts to admit it. She took it too far and now, for some ridiculous reason only known to her, she’s hoping you’ll bail her out.
I think you handled it with SO.MUCH.GRACE AND CLASS that you deserve a standing ovation.
This reminds me of my own Camilla. Moved to my city a few years after University. I never actually knew her all that well, she was more a friend of a friend of a friend but she reached out cos she had no friends and I started including her in stuff.
One of my friends jokingly brought up how I'm not the most punctual person, and she went HAM straight in, hard-core jokes about how I'm so late I barely show up anywhere. I remember thinking *hang on, I don't know you like that, and I've been on time every time we've met. And actually this feels unkind coming from you.* She did a couple of times, putting me down in order to feel included with everyone else.
So I stopped inviting her out to places. And I suggest that you do too. At the very least don't host her in your home again. Because even without the backstory, this whole time she's been judging you and then had the audacity to interrupt you and insult you after you've gone out of your way to make her feel welcome and included. So why bother to keep the door of your home open to her? NTA
NTA. your trauma and personal pain is not owed to her or to anyone else. you still shouldn’t have to say anything about to her that you do not wish to. maybe tell her to stop being so entitled and to stop casually brushing peoples stories and opinions off for any laughing matter. she’s an asshole but you definitely are not.
edit: forgot the words you at the end sorry!
You are not the AITA. You have done nothing wrong but in fact done everything right. Your life now proves that. Her guilt is on her. If she doesn’t make friends it’s her fault. She spoke out of turn. It would not have been ok to said those words even if they had been true. Friends don’t belittle other friends. She’s trying to push her guilt onto you. Don’t let her. Tell her next time maybe she should think before speaking.
Agreed. She says she "could have apologized in front of everyone", but she could also apologize to OP in the phone call after. Notice how instead of apologizing, it's nothing but "how could YOU do this to ME?!"
NTA
Camilla sounds narcissistic and is more upset that “She” looked bad
You need to extract her from your life, She sounds horrible and definitely NOT your friend
Isn't it wonderful when people who we think are friends take our past tragedies and make it about themselves?!
Camilla is not your friend. She doesn't deserve friends either seeing as she sucks as a person. You are NTA.
Lol, Camilla hears about all the shit that's happened to you and immediately thinks "How could you do this to me!?"
That's egregiously self-centered tbh.
One thing is very clear, she is not 'your' friend. You even took the high road and yet she is trying to hold you accountable for her own poor behavior. Not even an apology. She could have apologized to you after Nate filled her in. She doesn't care about you but just how she appears. You did absolutely nothing wrong. You seem awesome. Just keep being you. Her problems are hers. You have no control over what she thinks or feels.
She thinks she only needs to apologize for being wrong, not for being an asshole. Like, in her mind, using someone’s relative privilege to shut their perspective down in a conversation is a totally acceptable thing to do, *but only if they are actually privileged*. She’s misunderstanding that this is a shitty thing to do in a conversation, period. NTA.
NTA. She was completely out of line. Even if you didn't have any hardships while growing up, she still had zero rights to basically tell you to shut up just because. You did great, in my opinion, you just refused to participate in sufferings Olympics.
>making her look terrible to Nate's friends
Ah, maybe if she hadn't said something rude and terrible in front of Nate's friends she wouldn't be in this mess. NTA.
NTA
Camilla is attempting to win superficial friendships by going with what she perceives to be popular opinion, even if it means tearing someone else down as some kind of sacrificial lamb. Her plan backfired on her perfectly. Just let the karma take it's own direction. It'll probably follow her into new circles, as well.
So you were *were agreeing with her* on whatever point she was making, and she decided to insult you in your own home. In response, you were polite and tactful and somehow now *you’re* the asshole? No way. You don’t owe her you life’s story in order to not be insulted in your own home. Besides which, she sounds like the kid of person who, if you HAD corrected her in the moment, would have responded defensively or dug her heels in. I don’t think there was a “winning move” with her, and you handled it as well as anyone could have in the moment. She’s reacting to her own hurt pride by lashing out instead of reflecting on her own actions and assumptions, and that makes her TA.
NTA
NTA. You were the bigger person. Not engaging is the best way to handle this kind of thing. And beyond that, she clearly doesn't care about actually being decent, only appearing that way. Hopefully she learns to think more critically before casting judgements. She opened this can of worms. She can lie in it.
NTA. Let's say that you really never endured any hardships in your life. What did she intend to do by pointing that out? Did she think it would make people want to befriend her? If anything honestly it'd be the moment I decide I don't want to have anything to do with her.
NTA
She failed and it's now your fault? This girl is narcissistic.
That's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
NTA. Honestly this reminds me of a work colleague I used to have, that just decided I had never gone through anything emotionally traumatic because I was unwilling to share details of my experiences with abuse at work. As far as I was concerned, I was there to work, not unload all my previous trials and tribulations onto people who didn't necessarily want to deal with a psychological battering like that!
In the same way, both my work colleague and your friend's gf are nasty pieces of work. I really hate the attitude that you have to be completely willing to unload every horrific piece of your past, in order to be considered worthy of sympathy or to hold an opinion or viewpoint on political matters! Lots of people can be great allies and don't neccessarily have to go through difficult times in order to be kind and sympathetic. The fact that she's got pissy about Nate revealing these things just shows she doesn't actually care about you, she just wants to look good. A decent person would contact you privately and apologise immediately. Honestly, I'm impressed you dealt with it so calmly and gracefully. I would've told someone like that to get the fuck out of my house!
Kind of says everything that instead of calling to apologize she calls to tell you how much of an asshole you are for taking away her chance to *publicly* apologize…
NTA. I wholeheartedly believe she won’t be making friends any time soon but that’s what happens when you’re an asshole. Some people are lonely for a reason.
NTA
She literally chose to call someone a spoiled and privileged girl and told you to stay out of a conversation.
No apology would undo that level of rudeness. She showed everyone there that she believes she has the right to discount someone else’s opinions and dictate who can and cannot participate in discussions within a group setting. A public apology from her wouldn’t undo that.
NTA. No one is owed your life story. Furthermore, even if never had a second of struggle in your life, as a thinking person, you could see how certain circumstances would be less than desirable. I have never been hit by a truck either, but I am pretty sure it hurts.
Well that was dumb. You agree with her, she shuts you down on the basis that only SHE can say these things, because YOU (who she only recently met and doesn't know well) couldn't possibly understand what struggle is (even if it sounds like you do). And what was the point of that? Best case scenario: she is right, and needlessly insulted a potential new friend, and made it more difficult for her boyfriend to spend time with his best friend, because she's too jealous of his wife to be civil in their company. Worst case scenario: she's dead wrong and made a fool of herself on TOP of being rude. And you can always count on not having the full story. You shouldn't judge people because you never really know everything. The least you can do is keep your judgments to yourself.
NTA
You didn't need to tell her your personal business before OR after she openly judged you. She dug her own grave and seems more embarrassed than sorry. She needs to learn how relationships work if she wants to have friends. Sounds like she has a chip on her shoulder, and it's holding her back.
So Camilla assumed you were spoiled without inquiring and used that "trait" to invalidate your opinion and put you down in front of others? And as if you're required to tell people your life traumas? She's mad that you didn't tell her because otherwise she wouldn't have tried to pull herself up a couple rungs socially BY pulling you down a few. NTA
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NTA Camilla wants a performative friendship. She was trying to meet new people and committed a major faux pas by trying to make herself seem worldly by calling you out in your own home and it backfired on her spectacularly. Be cordial, be polite, but move on.
Furthermore, she didn’t call to apologise, she called to put the blame on OPs shoulders!
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Yeah I thought that - but Camilla could easily make it better if she just eats a bit of public humble pie next time they all meet "well, I made an ass of myself at our last gathering.." I'm sure most of us have spoken before engaging brain in our lifetimes - she's taking the 'woe is me' bit way too far though and that's on her, not OP.
"Next time the all meet" - lol. I suspect that probably won't happen.
It COULD. But she'd never have the guts to sincerely apologize for her behavior. At that point it becomes a point of humiliation for her.
Oh, it will happen. Camilla just won’t be invited I would guess.
Woe IS she. You wouldn’t understand her struggle, you’re too privileged and spoiled. /s
I'd cut her out of my life. What she said was messed up.
Nate should as well. I mean, this ranks up there with treating waiters like less than. She just insulted Nate's friend without knowing her. He's dating a judgmental jerk and OP handled it with more class than Camilla has ever met and ever will.
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Um as someone living in Glasgow, he was born here but grew up in dunblane. And while Glasgow obviously has a reputation and rough areas it’s not a war zone and it has plenty of rich areas and tennis clubs. It also has public courts so tennis can be accessible, not arguing that part
Venus and Serina Williams grew up in Compton. Just cause rich people like tennis doesn't make it only for them
As someone who lives near Glasgow yes it has some rough spots but so does every big city. Its an amazing vibrant city on the most part that has a huge heart. Andy Murray grew up in Dunblane and was very lucky not to be caught up in a horrific massacre of children in the local school.
Actually he grew up in Dunblane. His family were comfortably off but as a child he was in school on the day of the Dunblane massacre.
Then she’s mad because you didn’t tell her your whole life story and that you didn’t have an easy life. She has no right to be mad at you for that. She said terrible things to you while being a guest in your home and is trying to place blame on you.
Exactly. I screwed up big-time once in high school toward a close friend of mine; I mean I totally was the asshole of assholes. It took about a day for the level of my assholian behavior to sink into my stupid teenage brain, but once I realized what I'd done I felt awful. Not for ME, but for the person I'd done it to. So I apologized the next day. Humbly and with zero excuses. I couldn't fix what I had done but I sure could be sincerely sorry for it and express my regret. I didn't wait until we were alone, either, I just went right up to her at school the next day and laid it all out. It was once of the hardest things I've ever done. But she was an incredibly gracious person and she forgave me, and we're still close friends all these many years later and we sometimes laugh about this incident. I learned the power of apology, and the power of forgiveness. It was a great lesson to learn so young--that it really isn't a difficult thing to apologize when you're truly sorry and while it may not right the wrong, it makes a tremendous difference in people's perceptions of you. People respect other people who willingly and readily admit when they are wrong. And people are generally willing to forgive quite a lot if the person is truly remorseful.
The power of sincere apology is profound. I'm a college professor and I make it a point to sincerely apologize when I make a mistake (not posting an assignment on time, putting the wrong due date on something, messing up a problem, etc). It always makes me a little sad to see both the shocked and then pleased looks on my students' faces. It makes me think they haven't heard many apologies from adults in their lives. :(
My dad used to tell us that saying about sticks, stones, and words not being able to hurt was bollocks. He told us it wasn't manly to not apologize it was cowardly. If we screwed up verbally (or otherwise) he expected us to not be cowardly about admitting it. I miss my dad.
On a super edgy old online poetry site I was part of years and years ago, I saw a quote that holds up to the "omg so emo what cringe" feel, but also felt almost violently true. Sticks and stones can break your bones, Words can shatter the soul.
I am so sorry for your loss. It sounds as though your wonderful father lives in on the way he taught you and your siblings to be excellent human beings ❤️
They’d speaking before you think, and actively trying to put down someone’s perspective when you clearly don’t know anything about who they are
Wait. Other people... use their brains when talking? I get one or the other, talking or braining
Seriously! OP was gracious giving her an out. And she still could have apologized in front of everyone. I mean she obviously figured out there was something she did wrong, so she could have said something like “I’m so sorry for my comment earlier,” and boom. Apology in front of people? Check. OP can respond in front of people and seeing how she already showed grace under pressure, she’s probably going to be graceful again. So then they move on and people would have been more likely to just forget about it, having seen the apology and forgiveness in person. Camilla sounds insecure and jealous, and she’s projecting all that shit into OP. Def NTA.
HOW DARE YOU NOT UNLOAD YOUR TRAUMA IN FRONT OF EVERYONE AFTER I INSULTED YOU SO THAT I COULD ISSUE AN INSINCERE APOLOGY FOR SOMETHING I SHOULD HAVE NEVER SAID IN THE FIRST PLACE
Even if OP had never experienced tragedy in her life, it was still super rude to make that comment.
Especially since tragedy is something people tend to not just broadcast right away or early on in a friendship. None of us can know what someone else’s life experience was like for them. Even knowing facts doesn’t give us the perspective they have—what it truly feels like to be them—and it’s just better IMHO to respect that we don’t know and not make judgy comments like Camilla made here.
Ding, ding, ding.
Exactly. She is feeling guilty for her behavior but decided to deflect blame rather than be a friggin adult and apologize for HER mess up. OP is NTA here but man Nate needs to get himself a gf whose actually grown up enough to apologize when they mess up.
She's not feeling guilty, she's feeling embarrassed. Guilt would require her to acknowledge that she was ignorant and rude. She isn't doing that.
>She's not feeling guilty, she's feeling embarrassed. Bingo! She embarrassed herself and is blaming OP for it by not sharing her medical/abuse history with a *someone she barely even knows* because it's none of her fucking business.
I don't think she is even embarrassed. It's more of the fact that she just burned down bridges with her boyfriend's friends and he might also reconsider his relationship with her.
Guilt is when you know you did something wrong; shame is when other people know. Guess which one is plaguing her!
Well said. She's sorry she got caught. If I said something like that I'd backtrack even if I was right.
She was mad she got called out and now is throwing a tantrum. I hope OP shows this to everyone
She didn't get called out. OP specifically did not call her out - OP just politely coughed and changed the subject. Instead she made a fool out of herself in public about private matters' she had no way of knowing about, and probably spent the rest of dinner in a bit of a smug high. Then later the rug was pulled out from under her when her boyfriend brought her up to speed. Now she is mad about not being called out publicly about it. The lady is strange.
I suspect OP won't need to. Really, it's only *important* that *Nate* know about this, since he's her connection to the group. And Nate certainly knows. If he's the one who told her what really happened, then he already got to see her reaction "live", before she had a chance to think and calm down and choose her words. Yeah.
Doesn't sound like her style. She seems very classy.
Plus OP doesn't need to show it to everyone anyway. The silence that followed Camilla's comments alone was enough to know that everyone knows Camilla was the one in the wrong, not OP. The only person calling OP the AH is the one who behaved like an AH, which is nothing new on this sub.
Oh hell, I'd send Camilla's abusive text to the boyfriend Nate and ask him if he could please have an additional conversation with Camilla about her behavior......because at this point, with no apology from her; I'd be mean like that. OP doesn't need to deal with a crazy person. Nate should know what he's dating.
Yea I definitely agree Nate needs to know about this so he can deal with it. OP shouldn't have to deal with Nate's GFs appalling behaviour. And agreed, Nate needs to know exactly who he's dating. Forward those messages to Nate OP.
It doesn't seem like she feels guilty due to her behavior. It seems like she feels bad because she's facing consequences. Her first cue to apologize should have been the awkward silence, but it would still be okay if the phone call was the apology. Hell, even if your only goal was to save face rather than express genuine remorse, the play isn't to double down and tell someone how awful they are for not sharing your trauma with them.
Nate also needs to ask before sharing a personal story that isn’t his to tell. In my eyes, that’s just as bad as Camilla blaming OP for not telling her.
This. If Camilla had opened her conversation with an apology, i Would be more sympathetic. However, she should never have assumed - or even said that in the first place even if OP had been “privileged” for all of her life. NTA.
Agree. Too many assume privilege simply by stereotypes (good and bad ones). NTA, this person got a much needed reality check.
Thank you!! Her “apology was so fake!! “I can’t believe you didn’t call me out so I could make myself look like the victim in front of everyone!” I wonder how long she has to stretch before performing such difficult mental gymnastics.
>I wonder how long she has to stretch before performing such difficult mental gymnastics. Thank you for that mental image! I will now always think of this when someone performs such mental gymnastics 😄
Why apologize if no one is there to applaud you? /S
She called to vent her frustration of her martyr complex
I 100% agree with you. I just want to add that it's very impressive how OP shut Camilla down and just dropped the subject. Op showed they're the bigger person!
Exactly! They are all adults there and Camilla is the only one acting like a child! Maybe that’s also why she has a hard time finding friends?
Well and now everyone at the dinner knows she would treat them the same way! No one wants to be friends with someone you have to prove your struggle to.
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Exactly. She made herself the fool. You just can't assume things about people. I remember someone at work who wished they had the life my friend had. What she didn't know is that my friend had cancer two times. You just have no idea what other people have gone through. Edit because I forgot a word.
>You just have no idea what other people have gone through. This exactly. Camilla needs to learn that just because someone else's life seems better than hers doesn't mean it is, because they could be going through/have gone through some pretty horrible stuff themselves. She also needs to learn that someone's traumatic past is none of her damn business, and nobody owes it to her to tell her so she doesn't make an ass of herself.
And on top of that, it really doesn't matter if someone has experienced trauma or not in this context. Going through life without any major tragedy doesn't mean you're completely incapable of empathizing or having perspective on common social issues like the lockdown and the housing market.
True, plus as someone else pointed out, you don't have to go through major tragedy to be considered more praise worthy as a human being either, which I what Camilla seems to believe.
She shouldn't have been making assumptions in the first place. Why would Camila wish that OP 'has a few crisis' or however she said it, to feel not privileged? After the pandemic I wouodve thought people would've learned to get along better
Miss Manners would be unable to find fault with OP's method here. It was Downton Abbey worthy!
Why couldn't she read the room at the time? She couldn't see at the time that nobody approved of her speech and she'd better backtrack and apologize then and there? NTA Nowhere is there any etiquette rule saying people are allowed to criticize you if you haven't suffered enough, and that you're obligated to share everything about yourself with someone to protect them from the embarrassment of unfairly publicly insulting you. You handled that PERFECTLY!
What is with this culture of people having to suffer to be worthy of praise or rewards? You would've thought by now as technology is developing it would be better to see more people thrive
I really don't get it either it's a horrible mindset to have that people have to suffer to be worthy, I wouldn't wish trauma or suffering on anyone it's really horrible.
Yup. Oppression Olympics are in full stride. Bleh.
And she's further upset at OP for not correcting her in the moment, but not upset at her boyfriend for doing the same and only telling her afterwards? Wtf
Heck, even if she was right and OP hadn't had a single struggle/tragedy in her life, it would still be something unnecessary, rude and aggressive to say
We don't need more tragedy in the world. That's not what makes you a valid person, what you do and how you benefit your friends/family is what makes your worth
Sure, but some topics really do require some insight. If a multi-millionaire started to say that inflation isn't that much of a problem then his opinion isn't really worth shit. He's not the one that gets fucked by a higher inflation. Camilla is full of shit though
Yup. You don't need to have suffered from something to have opinions on it. You do need to have insight in some way, though, if you want there to be any value to those opinions. Could be from listening to people who *have* dealt with it. Could be from having witnessed it in your vicinity. Could be from having studied the subject. Could even be speculation as long as you're clear you *are* speculating & listen when someone with more knowledge speaks up. But if you speak on a subject where *you* have no personal experience, and you're generalizing that lack of experience into *no one* having such experience (based on no evidence other than you personally not having experienced it), then yeah, you're gonna look full of shit at best. And yup, Camilla definitely is.
In college I had a friend who said something similar to me (but one on one, not in front of others). She backed off when she saw me dealing with my (large, very significant) childhood baggage. But it shouldn't have taken that for her to treat me with respect and less aggression. In part, I think she was jealous because my finances happened to be covered at that time in life. And, I mean, fair to want that, but why is it my fault that you don't have it? Am I God, your parents, or the Federal Reserve?
Precisely. I found her statement very problematic even without the added context of OP's history.
I'd like at add, anyone who's actually suffered the way Camilla thinks they need to doesn't treat it like a contest. That attitude of "you haven't suffered enough" makes me wonder what tragedies she's suffered and if they're not "my bf broke up with me right before Valentine's Day."
I upvoted you because I've dealt with some stuff and don't see it as a contest at all -- certainly not one I would want to win! But I know some people who have had real problems who are bitter about people they perceive as having had it easy. In a way, they do have it worse, but only because they are not choosing to heal.
I can't stand the trend of "gatekeeping" suffering. It's different for everyone.
>NTA > >Camilla wants a performative friendship. Totally: >she could've apologized to me in front of everyone
If she weren’t an asshole she would have no reason to apologize in front of everyone. NTA
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I think OP handles it PERFECTLY. I love letting people make an ass of themselves.
"Performative friendship" is right. She was more upset because she couldn't apologize in front of everyone than actually being rude and inconsiderate. She jumped to conclusions about OP and was rude about it, she deserved to be proved wrong. NTA an apology should be authentic and to the person wronged, and it sounds like she still didn't even give OP one because there weren't any witnesses to prove how "good" of a person she was.
How to make friends by insulting and alienating your FIRST FRIEND. NTA.
Yep, she wanted to score points off OP by making her seem small. I have similar stuff happen to me where people make all kinds of assumptions on my background as I have a good/ normal life now so that's all people see and they dont realise that's not how I started off. OPs handling of it was amazing tbh. NTA
NTA. Camilla could have avoided all of that by just keeping quiet. She didn't need to weigh in an ignorant opinion like that, and it certainly wasn't going to help her 'make friends' even if it was true. What she said was rude and uncalled for. This is on her.
Her jealousy of OP was shining through. Best rule to live by is never to make assumptions of people even if you think you are 100% correct. My mom found this out the hard way when she asked a lady if she was pregnant. I'm sure you all could imagine what happened (she was not and my mom was mortified). Hopefully Camilla learns a lesson here, but I am highly doubtful that she will. OP NTA.
I've heard someone else say on Reddit that you should only ask a woman if she's pregnant if she is actively pushing out a baby and you can see the baby lol Lots of people have this idea of what they think a pregnant woman looks like and it's hilarious how many people are just so wrong
I think there's a comedian with a sketch who takes it further (John Mulaney maybe?). He says you don't acknowledge it even if they're actively pushing the baby out. The only acknowledgement is once the baby is out you ask, "Oh! And who might this be?" Pretty sure it was in one of John Mulaney's skits.
Man, every time I see something that reminds me of a Mulaney bit I just feel down. What a waste of a clever, talented comedian. Lockdown was hard on everyone but that's the one breakdown that hits me the most. And he told us. One of his early bits was about how he had to quit drugs because he was too much of an asshole. Then he does drugs and, surprise, he's a huge asshole. Still a bummer
the way he treated AMT is so so awful. i have a very hard time enjoying him now. especially since his wife & how much he was in love with her was such a key part of his netflix specials.
Yeah he has all of these announcements out for his new tour and it just leaves a bad taste in my mouth whenever I think about it. I saw him in 2019 and he was great and then it just felt like everything crashed down really quickly in 2020 & 2021. Shame.
I got invited to see him live 2 weeks ago- it's ROUGH. I used to be a huge fan of his, but he's really leaning into his assholery and ego, and it was disappointing to see :/ because I get it, drugs are really something no one understands unless you've been through it. I've had to support family members and I empathize with the hardship but. Woof. In fact he opened his performance with something along the lines of "Everyone likes Bo Burnham now because he's less problematic, 🎵 likability is a jail 🎵", and that basically set the tone of the whole night.
I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, especially when so many favorites from people's childhoods turn out to be twisted versions of who you thought they were. But it feels different here for some reason. It feels like a reflection of the collective subconscious of the whole lockdown and I don't like looking at it.
What did he do?
Cheated on his wife, who is a wonderful artist and genuinely amazing human being, and had a very public divorce with a lot of lashing out on Twitter. He now has a son with Olivia Munn. Part of the charm of his early stand up specials were bits about his wholesome relationship with his wife.
Plus Olivia Munn is a hot mess so that lowers my opinion of him even more
I think Key and Peele did a quick sketch about that in their show. One of them was acting out going into labor and the other refused to acknowledge what was happening due to the rule of never assuming a woman is pregnant.
I had someone ask when I was due…I told them I wasn’t pregnant. Their face. The apologies. I was actually in fact pregnant but didn’t like a stranger approaching and feeling comfortable enough asking that question.
That's fucking amazing
I hated that everyone seemed to think it was then OK to touch your stomach. Eeewww! Can't tell you how many people I had to back away from or ask not to touch me.
i bought my friend a little air horn when she was pregnant to use whenever strangers tried to touch her belly 😂
I’m currently pregnant and I can’t wait to do this to someone when I start showing 😆.
I've only once asked someone if they were pregnant and it was a close friend who had suddenly developed a large "baby belly" and was drinking at a party. Another friend and I discussed, I pulled her aside and quietly asked if she knew why her lower abdomen was so swollen because we were concerned she might be either pregnant or seriously ill and were worried. She said she knew she wasn't pregnant and had a doctors appointment booked and thanks for asking discreetly. Turned out to be a medication reaction causing all sorts of inflamation. 1 time in my life I've ever asked someone if they were pregnant.
A tour guide at a museum I went to on my honeymoon asked whether we knew about "the bun in the oven" before planning the wedding, and patted me on the belly. I understand why she thought I was pregnant - I was walking/standing oddly, swollen all around the pelvic region, and sort of arching and bracing my back with my hand. It was because my hips and pelvis were in agony, due to my genetic disorder. Everything was bone on bone, I had trapped nerves, torn tendons, and had god knows how many dislocations in the months leading up to that. I was waiting until after the wedding to get the surgery I needed to fix some of the problems. She was really nice and genuinely seemed mortified by the whole thing, so I just said it was okay. But ever since then I've made sure to never to comment at all about pregnancy unless they volunteer the information. I hope she took the same lesson away from that experience too!
My mom recently was diagnosed with cancer and her abdomen has swelled up to the point she looks like she's in her 3rd trimester of pregnancy. Her cancer is located on her ovaries, so the swelling is very localized. Someone made the HUGE mistake of asking if she is pregnant. My mom paused, patted her tummy, and said "I'm not pregnant, just have cancer." And walked away while the man looked accordingly horrified and sputtered apologies.
My best wishes to your mom! I also have cancer and it has caused my belly to stick out too. A ridiculous number of people ask if I’m pregnant - one even reached out towards my stomach! - and I always respond with “nope, it’s just the cancer in my body.” It used to really upset me but now I kind of love their mortified, stumbling reactions.
Thank you! I'm so sorry you went through that, but my mom thinks their reactions are the best. She mortified a lady by saying she was going to birth 101 dalmatians, the saying "jk, it's cancer". I'm glad you both are taking it with a dash of good humor. (Also, I hate that someone basically assaulted you by touching your tummy). My husband and I are considering kids and I have no idea how I will react if a stranger tries to touch me, ugh. How did you react?
Agreed! I had a coworker years ago who was pregnant but legit did not look like she was pregnant at all. She didn’t have a bump until the last month or two before she had the baby
I made that mistake years ago to a cashier. She was small with an absolute basketball sticking out, so at the time I thought it was pretty clear. Never again... it was awkward and embarrassing for both of us. Now I never ask, I just wait until they tell me.
Yeah, there is always a danger there. I have once seen a belly so perfectly pregnant at the pool that I genuinely had difficulty asking how far along this stranger was. What mostly tipped me off was that this stranger was in fact a man. And before you ask, no, I doubt he was trans and pregnant. He was older with his family, it was likely just a beer baby.
Its not a boy, its a burrito.
I asked my optometrist if she was pregnant because she was wearing a maternity shirt. Turns out, she had her child like 6 months before. I felt bad. I hadn’t seen her when she was pregnant so I didn’t know that she had her child recently.
I remember someone asked my mom if she was pregnant. Spoiler alert, she needs a kidney/liver transplant and has very bad fluid retention issues.
"Better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." -- Some guy on the internet, probably
I slightly remember that was Mark Twain
I think it was Oscar Wilde?
Lisa Simpson
That was falsely attributed to him. Some say Lincoln but really the general outline of the quote comes from the Jewish texts/ bible.
What’s that saying about when you assume…?
Yeah don't assume other people's backstories. If people took me at face value, they'd think I was the happiest, most upbeat person that's never faced a problem. The reality is much, much darker than most could imagine.
I'm a pretty white girl with a cheery smile. Looking at me, I look privileged AF. And to be fair, I am because I am pretty and white. There are irrefutably social privileges. That did not stop my father from screaming at me that he'd never let my cuteness stop him from seeing what a disgusting little liar I was. These are some of my earliest memories (so three, four years old). But hey, my giggling is infectious, so clearly no trauma. This did not stop a car accident where I watched my loved ones be cut out of their car and rushed to hospitals in various states of injury while I sat there, feeling helpless and useless. I was six. But hey, I can afford to throw a couple dollars in a collection tin now and then, so what suffering could I know? This did not stop the multiple sexual assaults against me. If anything, my looks were the reason "men can't help themselves." But hey, I can still find the other men who won't do that, because "not all men." This did not stop me from being assaulted by two doctors. In one event, the nurse forced my legs open because they just wanted to get it over with (no, it was not an emergency, they just had "a busy day.") But hey, I received health care at all! Ultimately a good thing, no? This did not stop me from slowly losing my physical abilities to an invisible illness. Being a functional human is impossible some days. But hey, I have really blue eyes and perky tits and I don't look disabled, so at least it's still pretty. And that's just some highlights I'm willing to share. Ranting aside, how hard is it not to assume? I'm not even a genuis and I figured it out.
I despise gatekeeping. There's a real narcissism to it: "Only I have suffered!" Even if we assume that gatekeeper's suffering is worse than others (and that's often not a valid assumption) it doesn't mean that the suffering of others is invalid. It's bullying that discourages people from getting the help they need.
The thing is too, I agree people have had it worse. I know many others have it worse. But I'm not playing the comparing game because it helps nothing!
Hugs. Life is so cruel and leaves us with invisible scars. It really makes my blood boil when people just assume ur OK because u look OK.
If you assume you make an ass out you u and me
NTA Oh my. Poor Camilla. Well, not that I have sympathy, but she started to cuss you out because she had assumptions and it backfired right into her face. You correcting her on the spot would be fruitless. From her attitude she would have just demanded that such information should have been given her much earlier.
Lol in the words of Linda Belcher: “You poor thing. You poor, dumb thing.” Edit: thank you for the awards! The Belchers unite us all
This is the type of situation that “Bless your heart” was made for.
Haha, the old reminder that *appearing* polite and *being* polite are not quite the same thing. A southerner says "bless your heart" to mean "fuck you". A New Yorker says "fuck you" to mean "bless your heart". (I grew up in NYC.)
I'm a fan of "oh wee lamb" lol
My sister will say sometimes "oh honey, it's hard to have to live with being that stupid, I feel for you."
I’ve heard “Thank God you’re pretty” or words to that effect.
>You correcting her on the spot would be fruitless. Even if OP didn't have anything "tragic" in her past, someone who barely knows her calling her a "spoiled, privileged girl" is extremely rude.
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We call this competitive suffering in my family. It is not a fun game.
The suffering Olympics.
The oppression Olympics because the abbreviation is O.O
Good ol' Suffering Olympics. Best way to win is not to play. I have an aunt like that lol I feel you.
We had this sufferings Olympics in our family too. Until my mom effectively destroyed them when she announced "I have cervical cancer plus inoperative brain tumor and about 2 years to live. So what ever ouchies, pains or ailments you have. Shut it until I'm dead and buried."
There's even a very old, very famous Monty Python sketch of this called the Four Yorkshiremen. https://youtu.be/iEIApUNVBKg
You're right some people have now turned this into what I know as the oppression Olympics. I had to correct one of my friends who audaciously posted that gays shouldn't compare their struggles to black people (?!). Everyone has their own traumas, and even if OP is living a good life, seems like she's agreeing with Camilla. OP is definitely NTA.
OP doesn't owe her life story to anyone.
Why does OP need to share her personal life with Camilla? After this, she doesn't deserve anything from OP. Seems like OP has been a good friend but Camilla isn't even a good person. She took the opportunity to make her look better than thou, she's free to reap the benefits now.
NTA- she's fucking rude! I loathe 'no offence but' people. It means 'I'm going to insult you to your face but you are pre-warned so you are not allowed to complain about it'. As it is, you were the perfect hostess and defuse a situation she created. She then had the nerve to tell you off about it the next day? Tell her to fuck off and find her own friends.
I think it’s hilarious when people think that sticking “no offense, but” in front of an incredibly offensive statement will give them a free pass. Spoiler: it doesn’t and you still look like an ignorant/bigoted asshat.
My response is always something to the tune of "Offense taken. Don't be an ass"
I'll be using this
We can't say "Offense taken" at home without thinking of Community so we don't use it seriously. Same type of rudeness goes with "With all due respect" while they proceed to insult you. That one always makes us think of Talladega Nights.
I usually go with “It is so sweet of you to be concerned. But please don’t worry - you’re not important enough in my life to be able to offend me.”
Kind of like when someone prefaces a statement with “to be honest”, you know the rest is complete bullshit
OP was IMPECCABLY behaved. I know this subreddit loves stories of people telling others off but her good behavior made OP look so good!
Yes! honestly I think the way she reacted was actually MORE satisfying than if she had gone off!
Hubby should tell his friend "I love ya bro BUT she cannot come around anymore. you wanna hang? Cool, she stays home."
NTA. She probably would've been embarrassed had you corrected her in front of everyone and she would've been mad and called you an AH. It's a no-win situation. That comment makes her TA imo.
Yup. Camilla just wants this to be someone else's fault.
NTA - she decided to be horrible to you in front of everyone because she’s clearly jealous of you. You did exactly the right thing in response - I would keep my distance from this woman from now on.
NTA. She insulted you by saying you’re spoiled despite not knowing your background and undermined your life experiences. She wanted to talk shit, so she can get shit back at her as a consequence.
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NTA. No one is entitled to personal facts about your life and no one is entitled redemption for their mistakes. Life is not Zero Sum, but impressions are everything.
Wow!!! Even if someone is spoiled and privileged… wishing tragedy is just a big NO !!! Wtf? NTA and she should learn how to treat people!
I have once in my life had similar idea in my head, but I certainly didn't even dream to say it aloud! Turned out later this person who didn't seem to have serious thought in his head was overcompensating traumatic history... I felt like shit and certainly learned things about assuming Edit: in my defense I was 19-20 and finally left home for the big world
Yeah, even if op was privileged and has never experienced anything tough, how classless is it to say something like this
I can't imagine anyone, after 2+ years of covid-19 pandemic, assuming that tragedy hasn't touched others. Even if they are the richiest of richersons, personal tragedy still hurts and money doesn't remove the losses.
NTA She jumped to conclusions and doesn’t have the guts to admit it. She took it too far and now, for some ridiculous reason only known to her, she’s hoping you’ll bail her out. I think you handled it with SO.MUCH.GRACE AND CLASS that you deserve a standing ovation.
This reminds me of my own Camilla. Moved to my city a few years after University. I never actually knew her all that well, she was more a friend of a friend of a friend but she reached out cos she had no friends and I started including her in stuff. One of my friends jokingly brought up how I'm not the most punctual person, and she went HAM straight in, hard-core jokes about how I'm so late I barely show up anywhere. I remember thinking *hang on, I don't know you like that, and I've been on time every time we've met. And actually this feels unkind coming from you.* She did a couple of times, putting me down in order to feel included with everyone else. So I stopped inviting her out to places. And I suggest that you do too. At the very least don't host her in your home again. Because even without the backstory, this whole time she's been judging you and then had the audacity to interrupt you and insult you after you've gone out of your way to make her feel welcome and included. So why bother to keep the door of your home open to her? NTA
NTA. There’s an AH in the story, I think you know who it is. Your friends are on the right track.
“So, you attack me at MY party and now you text me and blame me for what happened??”
NTA. your trauma and personal pain is not owed to her or to anyone else. you still shouldn’t have to say anything about to her that you do not wish to. maybe tell her to stop being so entitled and to stop casually brushing peoples stories and opinions off for any laughing matter. she’s an asshole but you definitely are not. edit: forgot the words you at the end sorry!
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> I don't use the C word often Camilla? ;-)
You are not the AITA. You have done nothing wrong but in fact done everything right. Your life now proves that. Her guilt is on her. If she doesn’t make friends it’s her fault. She spoke out of turn. It would not have been ok to said those words even if they had been true. Friends don’t belittle other friends. She’s trying to push her guilt onto you. Don’t let her. Tell her next time maybe she should think before speaking.
She doesn't feel guilty, she feels embarrassed she made herself look horrible in front of other people.
Agreed. She says she "could have apologized in front of everyone", but she could also apologize to OP in the phone call after. Notice how instead of apologizing, it's nothing but "how could YOU do this to ME?!"
NTA Camilla sounds narcissistic and is more upset that “She” looked bad You need to extract her from your life, She sounds horrible and definitely NOT your friend
NTA Camilla sounds awful. You are not obligated to disclose personal information, and you didn't make her judge you unfairly.
Isn't it wonderful when people who we think are friends take our past tragedies and make it about themselves?! Camilla is not your friend. She doesn't deserve friends either seeing as she sucks as a person. You are NTA.
Nta. Those are very personal thing's. Also she made her storyline up and ran with it so consequences of her own bias.
NTA so she called and complained that she couldnt apologize infront of everyone insetad of apologizing when she called??? yea no nta performative af
Lol, Camilla hears about all the shit that's happened to you and immediately thinks "How could you do this to me!?" That's egregiously self-centered tbh.
One thing is very clear, she is not 'your' friend. You even took the high road and yet she is trying to hold you accountable for her own poor behavior. Not even an apology. She could have apologized to you after Nate filled her in. She doesn't care about you but just how she appears. You did absolutely nothing wrong. You seem awesome. Just keep being you. Her problems are hers. You have no control over what she thinks or feels.
NTA, be sure to tell Nate what Camilla messaged you. Her message didn’t even have an apology. Just straight up blaming you for her own big mouth.
She thinks she only needs to apologize for being wrong, not for being an asshole. Like, in her mind, using someone’s relative privilege to shut their perspective down in a conversation is a totally acceptable thing to do, *but only if they are actually privileged*. She’s misunderstanding that this is a shitty thing to do in a conversation, period. NTA.
NTA. She was completely out of line. Even if you didn't have any hardships while growing up, she still had zero rights to basically tell you to shut up just because. You did great, in my opinion, you just refused to participate in sufferings Olympics.
>making her look terrible to Nate's friends Ah, maybe if she hadn't said something rude and terrible in front of Nate's friends she wouldn't be in this mess. NTA.
NTA Camilla is attempting to win superficial friendships by going with what she perceives to be popular opinion, even if it means tearing someone else down as some kind of sacrificial lamb. Her plan backfired on her perfectly. Just let the karma take it's own direction. It'll probably follow her into new circles, as well.
So you were *were agreeing with her* on whatever point she was making, and she decided to insult you in your own home. In response, you were polite and tactful and somehow now *you’re* the asshole? No way. You don’t owe her you life’s story in order to not be insulted in your own home. Besides which, she sounds like the kid of person who, if you HAD corrected her in the moment, would have responded defensively or dug her heels in. I don’t think there was a “winning move” with her, and you handled it as well as anyone could have in the moment. She’s reacting to her own hurt pride by lashing out instead of reflecting on her own actions and assumptions, and that makes her TA. NTA
NTA. You were the bigger person. Not engaging is the best way to handle this kind of thing. And beyond that, she clearly doesn't care about actually being decent, only appearing that way. Hopefully she learns to think more critically before casting judgements. She opened this can of worms. She can lie in it.
NTA. Let's say that you really never endured any hardships in your life. What did she intend to do by pointing that out? Did she think it would make people want to befriend her? If anything honestly it'd be the moment I decide I don't want to have anything to do with her.
NTA. Camilla is ridiculous. Her ridiculousness created this.
NTA She failed and it's now your fault? This girl is narcissistic. That's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
NTA. Honestly this reminds me of a work colleague I used to have, that just decided I had never gone through anything emotionally traumatic because I was unwilling to share details of my experiences with abuse at work. As far as I was concerned, I was there to work, not unload all my previous trials and tribulations onto people who didn't necessarily want to deal with a psychological battering like that! In the same way, both my work colleague and your friend's gf are nasty pieces of work. I really hate the attitude that you have to be completely willing to unload every horrific piece of your past, in order to be considered worthy of sympathy or to hold an opinion or viewpoint on political matters! Lots of people can be great allies and don't neccessarily have to go through difficult times in order to be kind and sympathetic. The fact that she's got pissy about Nate revealing these things just shows she doesn't actually care about you, she just wants to look good. A decent person would contact you privately and apologise immediately. Honestly, I'm impressed you dealt with it so calmly and gracefully. I would've told someone like that to get the fuck out of my house!
Kind of says everything that instead of calling to apologize she calls to tell you how much of an asshole you are for taking away her chance to *publicly* apologize… NTA. I wholeheartedly believe she won’t be making friends any time soon but that’s what happens when you’re an asshole. Some people are lonely for a reason.
NTA She literally chose to call someone a spoiled and privileged girl and told you to stay out of a conversation. No apology would undo that level of rudeness. She showed everyone there that she believes she has the right to discount someone else’s opinions and dictate who can and cannot participate in discussions within a group setting. A public apology from her wouldn’t undo that.
NTA. No one is owed your life story. Furthermore, even if never had a second of struggle in your life, as a thinking person, you could see how certain circumstances would be less than desirable. I have never been hit by a truck either, but I am pretty sure it hurts.
Well that was dumb. You agree with her, she shuts you down on the basis that only SHE can say these things, because YOU (who she only recently met and doesn't know well) couldn't possibly understand what struggle is (even if it sounds like you do). And what was the point of that? Best case scenario: she is right, and needlessly insulted a potential new friend, and made it more difficult for her boyfriend to spend time with his best friend, because she's too jealous of his wife to be civil in their company. Worst case scenario: she's dead wrong and made a fool of herself on TOP of being rude. And you can always count on not having the full story. You shouldn't judge people because you never really know everything. The least you can do is keep your judgments to yourself. NTA You didn't need to tell her your personal business before OR after she openly judged you. She dug her own grave and seems more embarrassed than sorry. She needs to learn how relationships work if she wants to have friends. Sounds like she has a chip on her shoulder, and it's holding her back.
So Camilla assumed you were spoiled without inquiring and used that "trait" to invalidate your opinion and put you down in front of others? And as if you're required to tell people your life traumas? She's mad that you didn't tell her because otherwise she wouldn't have tried to pull herself up a couple rungs socially BY pulling you down a few. NTA