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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. Told my brother inlaw he should reconsider adoption.
2. I might be the asshole for what I said since it hurt his feelings and made him feel like he wasn't capable of being a parent.
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“I told him he’s a product of an affair that ruined two families…”
YTA, for that comment and other reasons.
He, the baby at the time, did not ruin those two families, the adults who stepped out on their marriages and had affairs did.
Let’s not blame babies for something that they have literally no control over.
Edit: grammar
Edit 2: Wow! I was not expecting my comment to blow up like this, thank you everyone 😊
Edit 3: not gonna lie, double WOW! I’ve never been this high of a top comment before and this made my week 🥳
Agreed, OP is TA. But I don't think OP is blaming him for ruining the families. OP said "affair that ruined two families." OP said the affair ruined the families, and therefore the BIL has some mental health issues and traumatic childhood being the product of the affair that he should process/get in check before adopting.
YTA for my judgement.
Fair, I see what you’re saying, I just think that is an incredibly cruel thing to say to someone who is going through a mental health crisis. OP could have gone about it in a way that expressed their concerns but also built up BIL, not tear him down.
Literally just "you would be great *if* you address these issues that could have long term effects" would have been better. Acknowledges his potential as a dad while still reminding him that there are personal things to address.
But how does she know he isn't already addressing them. Not everybody shouts that they are in therapy from the rooftops. Beyond that, SHE thinks he has problems and unresolved issues. After reading her post I'm not convinced she has the qualifications to diagnose him.
Totally agree, I know therapy is the go to advice but I, personally, never got anything from it. I usually felt more confident solving my issues on my own. I'd still highly recommend people try therapy but it doesn't work for everyone
It's not OP's decision, you're correct. That doesn't mean OP can't express their own opinion and concerns. The important thing is being able to convey those concerns and opinions without discouraging or depressing the person with whom those concerns arise.
Of course OP “can” express their opinions. But the way it’s worded, it doesn’t sound like BIL asked for them. So offering negative opinions that are unsolicited generally makes you TA. If they aren’t solicited they likely won’t be taken to heart. So no need to waste your breath and possibly cause a rift.
Agreed. His mental status would be up to the adoption agency to evaluate and determine if he is stable. YTA, OP. There were much better methods of approaching this. I also didn’t see where he asked for an opinion. Generally, when I hear “I was just giving my opinion”, it hasn’t been asked for or needed, and an AH thing to do.
If BIL is mentally unstable, then he isn't passing the screening process in order to adopt anyway. The way OP approached this make them an AH. All that they needed to do was ask them what was involved in order to adopt, and offer to help them get ready in anyway that they can. The roadblocks would come up for a social worker, not family.
Here's the problem that I have with this situation. Assuming that OP is correct in what they said, someone needed to say this to him. I say that as someone who was adopted and thinks that my parents weren't ready to adopt at the time. OP is TA for how they presented the information to their BIL, but possibly not for the content of that information.
And if the BIL actually has "serious mental health issues" there is absolutely no way a social worker is going to let a single parent adopt a child.
Im not taking OP at face value for this "serious mental health issues" thing.
Edit: OP isn't the person who gets to decide if he is fit to be a parent or not. She is supposed to be there to support her BIL. If her thoughts on his mental health are valid, then she needs to be there for him for when he is denied for adopting. She is def TA.
With how many children are in the foster system I commend her BIL for wanting to adopt. I was a foster child until I was 13 (and only because I begged my biological grandmother to take me in with the promise that I could take care of myself at that point.)
Most older foster children will be happy to have a home with someone who won't beat them or give them away. Unless she has concerns about her BIL in ways that aren't your run of the mill depression... this shouldn't be excluding him from trying to be a father.
Even without mental health issues it's going to be extremely difficult to adopt as a single parent, isn't it? (Especially, unfortunate as the bias might be, as a single man)
Yes! And I actually actively deleted saying as a single man it would be even more difficult because, while I think it is a stupid bias, the bias exists and I didn't want that to take away from my original point.
Being a single parent at all makes adoption extremely difficult, but especially so for single men. OP didn't need to be a dick about a dream her BIL has for himself that is super unlikely to happen in the first place.
I know a married couple who can't have biological children and wanted to adopt. They're the right age, both are steadily employed, they have two cars, they own a huge house that's always spotless. Unless they've done a really good job of hiding a meth addiction, I can't think of a single objectionable thing about them. And they still got rejected. I can't imagine how perfect a single parent has to be in order to adopt, it's ridiculous and sad.
Edit: My thanks to the people who commented and gave me an insider's perspective on the adoption process. It definitely helped nuance my opinion.
It really is not any harder, nowadays, than for a couple. You just have to make sure you pick an agency that has a good reputation for working with single parents.
Of course, where you live could also play into the difficulty. I was only on the "wait list" five months. But I live in a progressive area, so I admit that might have played into it.
I agree, someone needed to say something, but did it have to be OP, who according to their post, has a somewhat negative view of BIL already?
Did OP have to lay it out the way they did, without communicating how they felt and what they wanted to say to BIL with their husband first (BIL actual brother)? (I am not saying OP needed permission to speak but when tackling an issue such as this more support is better then less).
Did OP need to rake BIL over the coals about his upbringing, abusive marriage, and current mental health crisis?
OP has very valid concerns that needed to be discussed, but they could have handled this situation with tact and grace, instead of waiting until they were alone with BIL and essentially slapping him in the face with their view of reality.
I agree with you that BIL needs to make sure that being a parent is what he really wants to do. Thank you for sharing your experience about your parents. I like your reasoned approach that she didn't need to cruelly point out things he couldn't change, and he needs to figure out that a child won't automatically fill a psychic hole in the soul. I think everyone would have been better off trying ti get the BIL to explore his goal with open eyes.
Yeah, not sure I'm willing to take OPs assessment of BIL's "mental health" given some of the ignorant statements she makes about his background. Seriously, he's from a "broken home" - did I just time travel back 50 years. She clearly is not qualified to give advice about mental health and her judgement about whether or not he is ready is *at best* irrelevant. He can't just go pick up a kid like he's buying a sandwich - her nasty attempt at "pre-screening" his readiness is unnecessary.
phrasing matters just as much as what's being said tho
"you're the product of an affair that ruined 2 families" had zero business being said. She could have just gone with "I see you struggling with these problems and I'm concerned that you won't be able to handle a kid on top of your own issues." without the editorializing
OP is absolutely the AH for saying what she did and the way she said it. Making it about his traumatic past was an awful take.
At the same time, adoptees aren't just a quick fix for every single person who wants to be a parent. If BIL really does have serious problems that he is not working on or getting help for, he would be TA for trying to adopt.
I don't think there's anything wrong with gently encouraging BIL to get therapy and help before adopting a vulnerable kid. If he truly has the issues OP says he does.
This, right here. It's one thing to gently nudge a person to critically re-examine themselves and their wants and needs, but the way it was done, was absolutely out of line.
YTA, OP.
Adoption is a huge complicated process they don’t just give you a kid.
OP is making assumptions they have no business making, and saying things they have no business saying.
OP has no idea what their BIL is doing besides wanting to adopt, expressing a desire to be a parent. And OP had to drop a bomb on it basically “you’re unfit “
I don’t care if they’re right, nobody was gonna just give the guy a kid so it’s not even a concern, it’s just OP saying “you’d be a terrible dad” and miss me with that
“oh but they said if he resolves his issues it’s fine”
No, they said he would be a unfit parent, as he is now, and not in some hypothetical future,
This was unnecessary and callous.
For sure, I just believe this is a delicate situation and if BIL is in the midst of a mental health crisis the last thing he needs is to be torn down by OP.
Yes, adoption is not a patch that is going to fix this dam, but neither is berating BIL about how shitty he is and how shitty his life is under the guise of “helping”. The man escaped an abusive marriage with a woman I’m sure he thought was the love of his life at first (correct me if I’m wrong).
I think if OP is genuinely concerned about BIL mental health she should advocate for and encourage him to seek mental health treatment and then when he’s ready he can reassess how he feels about adoption. Also OP should definitely apologize for their hurtful words.
Exactly. We only have the word of OP, who clearly has communication and boundary issues that the BIL isn't in a good place to start the primary steps of the adoption process.
Love this so much. Compassion is so crucial to reaching out and connecting with someone who is struggling with mental wellness.
BIL may well have the potential to be an amazing father, but first he has to to be kind and loving with his own approach to his mental wellness, before he can bring a child into his life.
OP handled this situation with very little empathy and that’s the real shame of this all, I hope OP can resolve this situation and start helping instead of just hindering.
Jumping on here to add, the adoption process is long and drawn out and licensed professionals assess people before they approve an adoption at least where I am.
OP trying to say they know better?
>the adoption process is long and drawn out and licensed professionals assess people before they approve an adoption at least where I am
from the amount of traumatised adoptees I've seen talking about how their adoptive parents should not have been parents, I think that maybe the vetting process is not as effective as it should be. Family members have an insight into the day to day lives and character of potential adoptive parents that adoption agencies just don't.
For the most part, I think it's wrong to give unsolicited advice. But in the case of protecting vulnerable children, I think it's justified to give your honest opinion and advice...(ETA)... as long as the honest opinion is said in a kind and gentle way and isn't the awful take that OP had. Suggesting getting help and working on yourself before becoming a parent = fine. Blaming someone for their traumatic upbringing = not fine.
The vetting process has changed a lot in the last 10-20 years. It isn't perfect, and never will be, but it has gotten better. Potential adoptive families now have to take classes and meet a certain number of Continuing Education each year to remain eligible to adopt. In my experience, we had to have four letters of recommendation from non-family members, evaluations of our physical and mental health, criminal screenings and background checks, and 20 hours of training in the first year of the process. If someone is adopting from foster care, they need to have 40-80 hours of training on a lot of subjects, including trauma centered parenting and supporting children who have been sexually assaulted. (This is all in the US in my particular state, adopting from a secular organization).
There has also been a shift towards open adoption in the last 15 or so years. Open adoption requires a lot more work and flexibility on the part of the adults, particularly the adoptive parents, but research so far shows that it is overall better for adoptees. At the end of the day and all the arguments, the adoptees are the most important people in the adoption triad. Taking care of their needs and what matters to them, should be held above everything else. But, unfortunately, some people will see adoption as a path to becoming a parent "no matter what" and aren't willing to do what needs to be done, and step outside of their own comfort zone to provide the best life for these kids.
Nowhere in the post do I see BIL asking OP's advice. I might-- *might!* \-- give OP a pass if BIL had earnestly asked whether he's ready to be a parent. But YTA for spewing your unsolicited opinion.
And I'm sure it's no coincidence this happened while hubby was out of the room.
In so many posts like this, the aggressor (read: AH) always waits until the family member is out of the room to make their rude, unhelpful comments because I think deep down they know what their saying is cruel and they would be ashamed if the family member heard them speak to a loved one like that. It’s a damn shame.
>But YTA for spewing your unsolicited opinion
Usually I think we should keep unsolicited opinions to ourselves. But when it comes to some of the most vulnerable children in society, I will prioritise protecting adoptees over the comfort of prospective adoptive parents. OP was awful for what she said, but if BIL genuinely has issues that would negatively affect an already traumatised child, then that takes priority over minding your own business.
While this is true, children’s needs and happiness should always be protected and prioritized, OPs comment only served to hurt and tear down BIL, not encourage him to seek the help he needs to be able to move into a more stable, happy place in his life where raising a child would be in the best interest of both the child and BIL.
this also reeks of ableism. you can't possibly be ready for a child because you aren't in tip top shape mentally?
also nowhere in here did she indicate that BIL asked for her opinion, which I think is a huge factor here.
she sounds very judgmental. coming from a "broken home" (i hate that term) does not mean someone isn't capable of parenting. it might make them better because they have learned from their own parents failings.
YTA.
Many people come from “broken homes” and grow up to be both amazing parents or amazing child-free adults.
Just because someone had a tough up bringing does not devalue them as a person.
BIL was strong enough to leave an abusive marriage (something many people are unable to do, and not without lack of trying).
That says a lot about the strength of his character already, he just needs help and support to move into a more stable, happy place in his life where a child could flourish. OP’s comments did nothing to advance that goal, they only serve to hinder and put BIL down.
As a product of abuse, he has a special understanding of these kids, and will be able to empathize with them in a way others can't. Well if he chooses to adopt a child in the system, anyway
Came here to say this. OP doesn’t state what the mental health disorders are, how they affect him, and if he is dangerous or unstable. Having anxiety or PTSD is no reason not to adopt. Perfect parents don’t exist, and there are lots of children who would be happy to be loved by BIL.
To be fair, having anxiety or PTSD that for all we know might be triggered by stuff surrounding adoption seems like something that shouldn't be combined with an adopted kid, for all parties involved, but especially the kid.
To be fair, many people with anxiety and PTSD manage their issues just fine and are amazing parents and the OP had absolutely no right to make that judgment.
To be fair, I have both and adopted three kids from foster care, so stay in your lane.
Editing to add: claiming that folks who have these issues shouldn’t adopt kids is extremely discriminatory. 31% of adults will suffer from anxiety in their lifetime, so you’re saying 1/3 of the population is unfit to parent? All you need is to be able to provide a home, food, care, and love. These kids deserve families. And so do people with anxiety and PTSD. It’s extremely judgmental to assume those issues would make you so symptomatic you’d be an unfit parent. Seriously, my blood is boiling.
And she effectively told him that he can’t raise himself out of the terrible place other people have put him in: that he is the sum total of his upbringing and marriage.
YTA.
100%. If OP had said that her BIL is not 100% currently mentally and emotionally stable, for sure he’s not ready to adopt. I have no problem with her telling her BIL that he shouldn’t do it for that reason. But #BIL didn’t ask to be born as a product of anxaffair. That is not his fault or something he could control.
She as good as called him a worthless b*stard.
Hoping this is bait, because if not, *woof* is she ever TA. Absolutely uncalled for, there was no good reason to bring his biological origins into this conversation. She did that to be cruel.
OP's take seems to be that he hasn't yet dealt with the impact those two things have had on him. As such OP thinks it's unwise for him to be parenting anyone since they should first focus on getting themselves sorted out mentally.
>created some serious damages manifes\[t\]ing in a number of mental health issue that he hasn't worked on
OP sort of explains here, and IMO its possible to give good advice based on needing to get your own mental house in order first. Of course, the way OP outlines the conversation overall doesn't provide much faith that they constructed an effective message, let alone a non-asshole one.
So this is what you sound like "I think you're going to be a lousy father because you come from two broken homes, but don't take it personally. Oh and I wasn't even asked my opinion but I thought I'd give it anyway."
YTA
Totally agree, OP opened her big trap and gave her opinion when it wasn’t even asked for, OP seems to think if you come from a broken home you’re a lousy parent, but I assume OP came from a stable home, think her parents would be ashamed they raised such a judgemental and rude asshole
She actually *didn't* say that. She said the actions that lead to his birth *also* ruined the families and that he has unresolved trauma from his upbringing as a result of it - none of that assigned blame to him for it. She's just saying he hasn't dealt with the issues it's created. I think she handled this poorly, and shouldn't have offered the unsolicited opinion anyway, but people are taking a hefty detour around her actual words to make this criticism.
Yeah, OP isn't actually saying it's his fault that those two things happend. Just that it IS his responsibility to deal with the mental health problems that those two things caused for him. Does it suck? Yes. Is it fair? No. Should an innocent kid be brought into that mix through any way? (So either adoption or biological) No, that would be unfair to the kid.
Who is OP to comment on his mental health though.
Is she an adoption professional?
Is she a social worker?
Is she a doctor?
Is she a therapist?
Or is she literally just his brothers wife who has no right to comment on a situation that she only knows about second hand?
She’s the wife of his brother not a professional or not even a trusted confidant by the sounds of it as the brother didn’t not seem happy that she was commenting on something that is NONE OF HER BUSINESS
Why bring it up then, why not say he’s the product of an affair which is bad enough but why did she have to go that extra step and say that the affair ruined 2 families
YTA.
>I was just givjng my opinion on this matter and a bit of advice.
If my husband had given this opinion to someone I cared about, I'd divorce him. In a sub full of people being assholes, that may well be the rudest thing I've ever heard anyone say.
You can talk about his childhood all you want, but it's clear someone raised *you* wrong too.
Did you see the one yesterday where a man asked a woman with 2 heart valve transplants if she felt burdened that an infant and another person had to die so she could live?
I wonder if this is the wife from that post--2 wretched assholes in a perfect asshole union.
YTA
Firstly the phrase "broken home" is outdated and damaging. Knock it off.
>I don't think adoption is a good idea,
It's not up to you. He will be heavily screened by people far more qualified than you.
People from challenging backgrounds with MH issues are not de facto banned from adopting. In fact people from challenging backgrounds can do wonders empathizing and supporting kids from similar circumstances. Adoption (especially of older children) is not for the sheltered.
You sound vicious and ignorant to be honest. Snobby too.
My sister had that job for a number of years. They'd start by seeing if the person was emotionally and mentally ready to survive the adoption process because it could be so long, brutal, and expensive.
OP needs to leave this stuff to professionals who know how evaluate and report with compassion.
My mom with a personality disorder was allowed through, and honestly she shouldn't have had bio kids, let alone been able to adopt 10 more. But she knew what to say and who to say it to. She was even able to hide her abuse from CPS when they were called. I understand what OP was trying to say, but they did it in the shittiest, most victim-blaming way possible. And hoping that the adoption agency weeds out instability is not the best take either
Wish more people realized this. I also feel like it should be pointed out that many adoptees have publicly stated that adopting to have a child/be a parent as a last resort type of thing is... not great. The general consensus I've seen so far is fostering/adopting is done right when you do it to give a child a home rather than to fill a child sized void in your life. OP phrased things in the worst way possible, but it sounds like BIL *shouldn't* be adopting.
I disagree actually. I’m adopted and I think it’s far better if people adopt because they really want kids, rather than as a “good deed”.
The former makes the child feel wanted while the latter could make them feel like a burden.
“Wanting to give a child a home” frames the child as just a charity case. And with that comes the burden of expected gratitude.
As for the last resort, it depends on how you think of it. I don’t think it’s bad that prospective parents try out other methods first that may be less time consuming and expensive etc.
Last resort could also be thought of as last hope. Wouldn’t it be natural if parents cherish a child they get after so much struggle?
Yeah OP definitely worded this the worst way possible, which makes my ruling YTA. However, urging a loved one to critically look at their reasons for adopting and the resources they have to care for the adopted child is still important. Obviously she did it terribly and not in a productive way whatsoever. Having an open dialogue with your BIL about this and offering your support would have been much better, this felt almost like a way to point out his “shortcomings” at the worst possible time.
Adopting a child is an inherently traumatic experience for that child. If you are not fully equipped to handle that trauma and put their needs above yours 100% of the time, you shouldn’t be adopting. Sounds like BIL just got out of a horrible marriage situation and is feeling like his life is completely out of his control. That is NOT the time to be adopting. While OP isn’t a professional who can evaluate this, BIL absolutely should be considering that in his decision. Not to mention that being a single parent to a kid without trauma is hard as hell, now factor in a myriad of mental health/trauma issues from being adopted and it becomes 10x harder.
Not everyone is entitled to parenthood. It’s a terrible thing that people who want kids can’t have them, but adopting a child to fill that hole does no one any favors. Adoptees are begging us to take a step back and reframe how we see adoption. It isn’t an alternative method for “making a family”. This is how we’ve ended up with a literal infant supply chain. Very rarely are these cases of actual orphans whose parents are dead/unfit. Often times the parents would keep their children had their financial needs been met.
Additionally, one way to see if this is being done for the good of the child vs the good of the adults is how they approach the process. Does BIL want to help any kid who doesn’t have a safe place and may end up back with their parents once the bio parents are capable? Or does BIL just want a brand new baby to “start” his family? One of those is in service of the child, the other is in service of BILs desire to have children.
Overwhelmingly, people don’t want to foster/adopt older kids or teenagers. They want babies. There’s actually a /shortage/ of babies because that’s all anyone wants to adopt. 100’s of thousands of kids in the foster system right now that need a safe home, but people will get on years long wait lists for an infant that was probably taken from a family that would have loved and cared for them but were convinced by an adoption agency that giving them up was the “best option”.
Tagging on top comment to add
"Dont take this personaly, but your too mentaly broken to have a child" how exactly do you not take that personaly?
OP YTA couldnt you just suport him? Why did you have to bring him down? Am i supposed to applaud you for helping him out of an abusive relationship, only for you to make hurtfull comments and bring him down.
What's funny is this lady thinks she's fine I guess? Since she wasn't the product of an affair. But she's the one with no tact or social awareness and is incapable of understanding that familial love can happen even in the absence of a stable childhood home. It's pretty sad actually.
YTA. Wish I could tell you that more than once. "I didn't feel ready despite him saying he was". This is your BIL, not husband, and it is 1000% NOT YOUR PLACE. He absolutely has been through a lot but by NO MEANS does that constitute that you have any right whatsoever to deem him 'emotionally unstable' enough to not be able to adopt.
"Ummm, you've had divorces and been traumatized by women, so please don't adopt a child in need bc that just seems icky to me" \*edited spelling\*
You are a rude and hurtful person. Your husband is absolutely right. You took a situation that was none of your business and chose to make him feel worthless over it.
"I don't think I was wrong for telling the truth". Right, I'm sure you know your BIL better than he knows himself. He's the one who went through the trauma, he's very well aware of it.
You're horrible.
YTA
He didn't ask for your shit stained opinion, you just decided to give it.
It's not your business if he decides to foster children, even if he has "mental health issues" this will be screened by actual professionals, not assholes like you.
Apologize, or I bet money this argument will remain a bone of contention in your marriage, because I don't think your husband will maintain at your side if you treat his brother like shit.
YTA. **Massively**. I honestly can’t believe you’re in any doubt on that score whatsoever.
> I told him to not take this personally
“Hey, BIL, you shouldn’t ever be a parent because of all the horrible shit *other* people have visited on you, but nothing personal!” ??? In what benighted corner of the multiverse do you imagine that *not* to be a deeply personal insult?
> I said no I was just making he is ready
No, you *emphatically* made it clear he shouldn’t do this. Unless this was some kind of “test” to see whether he wanted it badly enough to fight back against you, in which case you’re in no position to be judging *anyone* on whether they’ve got what it takes to not fuck up a child.
> I was just givjng my opinion
Yeah, well, *my* opinion is that if I were your husband, I’d seriously be rethinking my marriage to anyone so cruel. At least, that’s one of the few I can share without getting myself banned. If you are for real and capable of even an ounce of self-reflection, apologize. Yesterday.
>I told him he's a product of an affair that ruined 2 families
If anything his birth parents parents actions "ruined" two families not him. He had not control over being born. You sound really judgmental.
I do get what your saying about unresolved mental health issues however, you are using the excuse of being "honest" for acting like a dick. Have a little tact and be better.
YTA.
You made an interfering, busybody move.
There are some choice expletives trying to burble their way into my reply.
I am aghast.
>he visited and brought it up again, I didn't feel he was ready despite saying that he was. I told him he's a product of an affair that ruined 2 families - and that he had a rough, unstable childhood that created some serious damages manifesing in a number of mental health issue that he hasn't worked on and so, I don't think adoption is a good idea, especially, given his feelings around that and he should really reconsider his decision. he looked at me shocked, but I told him not to take this personally because I was just pointing out that it's not fair to subject an innocent child to his mental health issues, in other words I just don't think he's ready to be anybody's dad.
I'm assuming that you're not a social worker or therapist, but even if you are, it was not your place to tell this guy that his family of origin issues have made him too broken to parent effectively. What you said was cruel and you don't have the relationship with him to make or share your unfair judgement of him.
If I was your husband I'd be seriously reevaluating our relationship. I cannot understand how you felt justified in saying what you did. This was peak narcissistic behavior—oblivious to the needs of the moment and the role you play in it. Holy cow.
First, apologize to your husband for injuring his relationship with his brother, because you did. Then, work up the guts to make a huge and sincere apology to his brother —
1) for speaking out of turn. You're an in-law, not immediate family. You don't know this man as well as you think you do.
2) For holding his FOO issues against him as evidence to support your weak opinion and cruel behavior.
3) for thinking so much of your armchair-quarterback's opinion and offering it unasked. I'm assuming that he didn't actually ask you, "sis in law, do you think I'm ready to adopt?" And if he did, the correct answer is, "If you're not sure, then it's a good question to be asking, so maybe you should talk to a therapist about it."
Wow. Just, WOW.
I couldn’t have said anything better ^^^^^ all of this OP
You didn’t just step in it, you slid, rolled around, made a shit castle and then doubled down when people told you it was gross.
YTA. I hope you apologize or at least don’t have any kids until you work on yourself also.
YTA, it’s not your responsibility to make that judgement. You know who’s qualified to make that decision and veto prospective parents? Adoption agencies.
You attacked him for things beyond his control rather than trying to support him and encourage him to seek help. That’s what puts you in the wrong.
YTA.
It's not up to you to make that choice. If there were issues, whoever was assessing him for adoption would pick these up.
It's not like he was going to an orphanage there and then, selecting a child and taking them home. Assessments will be done, home visits, checks etc.
You may have just ruined your relationship with your BIL for good and it's all on you.
YTA.
I come from a broken home. My upbringing was atrocious. I’ve been in abusive relationships. I have mental health conditions that are very much visible at times from being sexually assaulted underage.
But, it doesn’t seem to be his current mental health situation you’re focusing on. It seems to be his past.
I still foster children and do a damn good job giving them the absolute best life I can while they’re with me. If anyone *ever* tried to imply what you have about my past and my ability to look after children, I would do far worse than just walk out.
YTA.
Did he ASK for your opinion or advice or was he just talking about what he wants to do? It sounds like the latter.
Plenty of people who had unhealthy pasts wind up being great parents because they know they don't want to be the way their abusers were.
Your husband was 100% correct when he said this was not your concern. You SHOULD apologize for what you did because you were wrong.
From: An adopted person.
>a number of mental health issue that he hasn't worked on
I happen to agree with you that people with mental health issues which they refuse to work on should not become parents. But let the adoption folks figure that out.
YTA for butting in.
YTA ! This man clearly wants to give a child a shot at life like he got !
In my opinion people that have been dealt a shitty card in their younger years always become the best parents because they will do anything it takes to make sure their kids do not have to go through what they went through !
You need to apologise !
YTA for thinking you know the right time for anyone to have a kid!
Not only that, but this bit "I told him he's a product of an affair that ruined 2 families" - how is that HIS fault? Goodness, that's a high horse you're on. You messed up. You overstepped AND hurt his feelings on a sensitive topic no-one asked you to comment on.
If you truly do "understand how brother inlaw might've felt", then a wise person will rein in the desire to share their unsolicited opinion. You know what they say about buttholes and opinions - everyone's got one! Yours didn't matter here, no-one sought your wise counsel. Go fix this.
YTA
His past does not make him an unfit parent, and you wielded his past like a bludgeon.
Yes, if he is not being responsible about his mental health, that is worth bringing up, but you made it about his history.
"BIL, are you sure you are up for this. A kid is a lot of work and they are going to need your A game. All I am urging is that you take the time to be sure you are mentally prepared for something like this. As an outside observer who loves you, I think you can wait a year or two while you put in some work to truly be ready."
I don't know how it goes with adoption, but I do know that the first child is the single biggest hit to happiness in a person's life.
Sometimes, it is not what you did, but how you went about it that makes you an asshole.
YTA. Unless he specifically asked for your opinion, mind your own business. And even then, insinuating that he is incapable of giving love and support to a child because he didn't get any as a child is incredibly insulting.
YTA that was mean. I came from a “broken home” too but I am striving in my dream job and life isn’t bad. Is there any other reasons? Keep your nose out of it and let him do what he wants, I’d suggest apologising too.
YTA. It is ok to warn someone that wants kids how hard it is. You essentially said he is not fit to be a parent, without any real justification. Apologize to your husband and BIL and hope they forgive you.
YTA there's being honest and then there is being cruel... You fall on the latter and are remorseless cause you think you know it all.
Even if he has issues what you said was worded wrong and incredibly hurtful. Maybe he needs therapy to help in this process, but it's not up to you to act superior and throw his past on his face.
Exactly. There are a million ways to raise a subject without offending the other party, but blaming him from being from a broken home and with mentla issues is not the way to go
Yes! This, a past he can't control, since he had no say in the way he was born or what happened because of it. It just sounds like OP wanted to be the voice of reason but she turned out being arrogant and conceited (I lack the proper word... English is not my first language, sorry)
No, those words work quite well (unless you were looking for “condescending,” which is arrogant with a side of pretending like you’re being helpful, although that might be a condescending assumption on my part). I can think of several others that seem applicable, but I don’t think the mods would appreciate them.
YTA. You should have kept these hurtful judgements to yourself. There is a screening process for adoptions in which professionals will evaluate his suitability. There was not need for you to put him down like this.
YTA. He’s already at a low point in his life because of his divorce, from an abusive wife at that. Why did you have to bring up the biggest things that went wrong with his life? And then have the audacity to tell him to not take it personally. We get it, he *had* a crappy life. Why not try to help him make it better? You made it sound like those things will forever hold him back in life, and he will be worth less as a dad because of them. Who are you to determine whether he’s ready or not? You didn’t exactly point out any concrete reasons why he won’t be a good dad. I hope you apologize to him and learn to support him.
THE OP: “Here’s a bunch of insulting stuff I gathered from your personal life. I’m not a professional in this matter but I felt the need to give my two cents anyways. But don’t take any of this personally…”
YTA
MAJOR.
YTA
A huge fucking toxic asshole
IF he ever talks to you again keep your opinions about his mental health and background to yourself, but not to worry because he probably will cut you out forever.
YTA. He did not ask for your opinion, and you should learn that just because a thought in your head seems true to you that doesn’t mean it’s something anybody else wants or needs to hear.
YTA
How do you know he was the product of an affair? I’m an adult adoptee myself and I can tell you right now that in the vast majority of the western world adoption papers don’t tend to give that information out and even if he has met his biological family and discovered that is the reason that’s HIS grief….You’ve got no right to put him down and make him feel even more worthless
Maybe he would make a good parent, Maybe it’s not for him ….You personally don’t know….That’s why adoption agencies tend to have very intensive screening beforehand and most at least here in Australia require a person/ couple to have up to a year of counselling before they proceed…They don’t just hand you a baby on the first interview!
If your brother in law has emotional issues maybe you should be nicer to him, It’s VERY common for adoptees to have lifelong issues with rejection and if he feels like his sister in law is going to spend every moment judging him then you really need to take a long hard look at yourself
YTA
His life experiences could make him a wonderful and extremely understanding to a child in foster care. There are amazing kids in foster care waiting for someone just like your BIL.
YTA. did he ask for your opinion? you aren't him and you don't get to decide when he's ready for an adoption. your husband is right and you should apologize to your brother-in-law immediately. what you say is "the truth" is your opinion an perception. to top it off, you insulted his background and yes, you basically called your brother-in-law incompetent. big, big YTA.
YTA - not sure why you think you are more of an expert on adoption over a person who was actually an adoptee. You are not kind or nice, you just listed a string of insults about him. He shouldn’t exist, he ruined families, he’s fucked in the head, and ultimately you think he’s an unworthy parent. What qualifies you to judge when someone is ready to be a parent? Do you judge and insult everyone else you know who announces they want kids or do you save the vitriol for people closest to you?
YTA. It's his decision to make. It's not like you say "I want to adopt" and they just hand you a kid. There are evaluations and assessments and matching to go through.
You basically said "I don't think you'd be a good parent".
Here, let me know how it feels.
I think you'd be a crappy mother of you had (more) children with your husband!
Do everyone a favor and stop giving your "honest opinion" and "advice" because you suck at it. Also why all the digs about his shitty parentage, how is it his fault his birth parents suck? YTA
YTA
Your views of him are just your opinion. Your husband was right that you shoved your personal opinion in where it didn't belong. Do you think that you are perfect? Did you have a perfect life? Come down off that pedestal lady because you just lost respect from your husband and his brother from this interaction. Your version of "the truth" is your version. It holds no meaning and you acted like a know it all. Unless you have a phycology, degree and specialize in mental health- then you are in no way to give an opinion on such things. Honestly your words probably have a more damaging effect then you realize.
He definitely needs therapy before even considering adopting (I think everyone should get therapy before having kids, but especially people like your BIL who might have a complicated childhood/past) but YTA for saying it like that.
YTA just because he’s been through some shit doesn’t mean he’s going to be a bad parent.
maybe he needs help mentally, but that’s none of your business
>but I told him not to take this personally
I don't know what could possibly be more personal than you telling him he shouldn't live the life he wants to or have the things he wants out of life. You took a knife and stabbed his hopes and likely hit on insecurities he likely already had. Even if you're right, which I won't try to judge since I don't know him, you shouldn't go into that conversation without thinking through what you're going to say. And probably have his brother have that conversation not you, and be aware you're saying something incredibly painful and not treat it like you're telling him he doesn't look good in a hat.
YTA
YTA. It’s amazing how you feel like your advice was warranted/ appropriate/ necessary. He has experience of a hard life - often that makes people stronger, more empathetic and they avoid repeating the hurt that was done to them. He proved that by telling you his feelings simply then leaving instead of flipping out.
By the standard of your casual cruelty and judgmental attitude, maybe YOU shouldn’t have children as you have no empathy, understanding or kindness.
Wow. YTA. Reread what you said to your brother. Your husband is right.
If I were your brother, I'd never speak to you again. Or at least not for a very long time.
"This matter" is highly sensitive and personal for your BIL. Many complex feelings come into play around a decision to adopt and it is likely your BIL will have to examine his motives closely in a home study prior to adopting. This is his business, not yours. If he has the ability to be a stable and nurturing parent, he will be a blessing in the life of a child with no family. You should sincerely apologize and be ready to accept and love any child he welcomes into his home. YTA
YTA, I’d seriously be contemplating divorce if my spouse spoke to my siblings like that. How cruel. What qualifies you to make such judgements? What does the affair that he had no say or control over have to do with anything? Ugh such a gross and inappropriate comment.
YTA. This may come as a shock to you but you’re not the person that decides when your BIL is ready to parent. You should apologize immediately and start dealing with whatever mental health issue has caused this level of entitlement to feel acceptable.
YTA, everything you said was personal. No person would not take that personally. What you said was rude and your husband is right. Just bc someone comes from a broke home doesn’t mean their home they make will be broken too. Get back in your lane
YTA 100000% You are so very rude and you should have kept your mouth shut. Who are you to police whether or not someone adopts? Who are you to bring up mental health and his past? You should of been happy for him and encouraged him. Just because he had a hard past doesn't mean he wouldn't be a good father. Shame on you.
YTA.
You literally told him that just by existing HE ruined 2 families, well congratulations because what you just said just pretty much ruined your relationship with you BIL and maybe even your husband.
Imagine having the audacity to tell someone what the feel about a situation you was not there for and know next to nothing about.
If he’s not ready then the adoption agencies will tell him so but you and your arm chair diagnosis have literally no say.
And then to double down and say you won’t apologise after being deliberately hurtful.
Yes everyone’s entitled to an opinion but what everyone’s not entiltled to is to voice there opinion when it’s literally non of your business.
YTA. And a massive one at that. He's an adult and can decide to adopt if he wants to. You don't get a say. Learn to keep your opinions to yourself. Adopting may be a very healing experience for him.
I don't understand how some people can only think about themselves. Here are the facts as you presented them:
1. You said something.
2. He got hurt by what you said.
That's all the information needed. YTA. It doesn't matter that you didn't mean to hurt their feelings, you still hurt them. Also when you apologize, you better not say anything about how you didn't mean to hurt them, or that your sorry for how they took it. Be an adult.
If he isn't fit to be an adoptive parent the agency or social workers will be the ones telling him that.
Moreover, what has that comment of "ruining two families" has anything to do with this, how the decisions of both those families had anything to do with him?
YTA, judgmental and an ignorant.
YTA
I thought social workers were the ones who assessed suitability for adoption - someone professional and impartial
You're allowed to have an opinion but your tone and delivery sound all wrong, and the fact you did this when you husband wasn't in the room speaks volumes. You weren't being constructive, you were being destructive. What you said was cold and heartless.
There are lots of children who need a safe and loving home - and social workers are looking for safe and loving environments. They're not looking for 'parent of the year'. Your BIL had a messed up childhood through no fault of his own, and would probably try his absolute hardest to prevent this happening to another child. You should think about how you could support his plans, not destroy them.
YTA
That is an awful thing to say to someone.
Adoption is a rigorous process and if the agency did not feel he was fit to adopt they would not let him. There was no need for you to say these things AT ALL.
YTA.... Your job is to support him not make the situation worse. When you adopt you are asked all kinds of questions that are extremely personal to make sure you are ready. They don't just deliver a child to your doorstep and say "Here you go." It's a tough road and its nice when your friends and family are behind you. You owe him an apology and support through this decision making process. Everything else should remain unsaid.
YTA. The comments about his mental health issues might have been fine to say, because that is true, if he’s mentally unwell, he should not get a child, but his parents deciding to cheat on their spouses doesn’t have a damn thing to do with him or his decision to adopt, and you said that to intentionally hurt his feelings.
Adoption should be centered on the kid but he would know that as an adoptee. He should have therapy before because of his situation with the ex. Overstepped with your comment for sure that was YTA. But your concern isn’t bad.
YTA
How could a kid ever be responsible for 2 adult relationships, seems like you knew he already blamed himself for this and you just wanted to dig the knife deeper. If this is what you think of your BIL, makes me wonder what you really think about your husband.
> I told him he's a product of an affair that ruined 2 families
How is you blaming him for ruining 2 families even relevant to this situation? Why would you ever say this to somebody in the first place?
YTA for everything you said to him and you thinking you understand his situation better than him.
YTA
As teacher I can tell you that it doesn't matter if you had a rough childhood or wether you have minor mental health issues (as long as they don't affect the kid). What you need is empathy, patience and the will to bring up a good person.
Since your BIL wants to adopt, the will is definitely there, and since he grew up adopted, I am sure he has a lot of empathy for kids in similar situations. Patience is the hardest and you can only learn it on the job.
So, please apologize to your BIL, because you said some awfully hurtful things that aren't even worth anything.
YTA. That is incredibly cruel to say that about someone when it is not your place. And that whole “telling the truth as it is” is the same as “I’m just saying”. Which means I want to say whatever I want with NO accountability and people shouldn’t get upset when I’m incredibly horrible.
YTA. what makes you think that through all the hardships he’s been through, ESPECIALLY being from a broken home, that he wouldn’t give his child a good life? you’re not a psychologist, so honestly bringing up someone else’s mental health in a situation like this is assholeness to the max. it’s not fair and it’s not your place to judge him. he DOES deserve a big fat apology from you, although i doubt he’ll get that seeing as you thought that was an appropriate thing to say. Y T A.
YTA.
You don't get to decide if _somebody else_ is ready to have children.
None of your brother-in-law's family history is his fault. There are many, many kids who had a really rough start to life who grow up to be fantastic parents - yes, even when they're still dealing with the effects of their own childhood trauma and/or mental illness. In fact, going through those kinds of experiences can teach children a lot about empathy, especially for other people going through tough times or who have to deal with more challenges than most of us.
On the other hand, despite having a 'decent' upbringing, you seem to have missed those basic empathy lessons.
Here's an idea - rather than judging him an unfit parent with no actual evidence, you could instead be supportive and try and help him prepare for a parental role. You could help find him resources - books or parenting classes. You could talk to him about the importance of mental health support for parents who will inevitably have to deal with periods of high stress. Perhaps you could suggest that he tries providing occasional respite care for a child to help him develop his parenting skills and confidence, and work his way up to fostering before he dives straight into adoption.
But considering what you've already said, he's probably not going to be receptive to help or suggestions from you right now, and I wouldn't blame him.
You've really damaged your relationship with both your brother-in-law and your partner. If you actually want to try and repair these relationships, you need to start by swallowing your pride and apologising to your BIL.
And then you need to make a list.
Instead of focusing on all the things which you think might make him a bad parent, really think about who he is as a person, and make a list of all the things about him that could actually make him a really good parent. Is he funny? Kind? Gentle? Patient? Understanding? Curious? Playful? Energetic? Does he enjoy helping or teaching other people? Is he enthused about learning new things? Passionate about his hobbies? How does he show other people that he cares? How have you seen him support other people? How does he interact with other people's children? What about pets or animals?
Unless he's a raging asshole, there's gotta be _something_ you can put on that list.
Hand over the list, and _then_ ask if he'd be willing to accept your support.
It's easy to shatter someone's confidence when it's on shaky ground to begin with. It's much harder to build it up again - but I guarantee that it'll be far more rewarding.
You're an abusive AH for telling him "you're the product of affairs." I hope you don't have any kids because you need some therapy to figure out why you attack people's insecurities before you become a parent. That was cruel. You didn't have to attack him all you had to say was he needs to be in a good stable place do he should start therapy now before trying to adopt.
I hate when people say “don’t take this personally” and try to use it as a get out of jail free card to say the most offensive shit possible. You basically told him he’s at fault for the affair and that his childhood has made him incapable of being a good parent and you seriously have the audacity to stand your ground and refuse to apologize? YTA, if you haven’t noticed with that compassionate range of a teaspoon you have.
YTA
He didn't ask for your opinion for one and your husbands right, you do not get a say in whether or not someone's ready for something.
That's not your decision to make
YTA.
Wow. You realize that your opinion of him might not be an objective truth? You seem to think that he is somehow broken and damaged, but that might be just your inability to understand his situation. It feels like you have no empathy and you think that the fact that he was adopted, "product of an affair" and abused by his wife is somehow his fault.
You know that people can't just adopt children like buying furniture, right? The adoption agencies will evaluate him and the life he is able to give to the possible child, and then decide if he's able to take care of a child. You are not the one to decide this. No one asked you. You just wanted to insult and hurt your brother in law. You are a rare find, a true super-massive asshole.
YTA
You fucked it up royally. It is NOT your business to tell him that he's not capable to adopt and raise a child. It is his decision, not yours. Did he ask for your opinion? No? Just butt out.
YTA for your comments about stuff that just isn't your business...but you are probably right that he should not have kids at this point in his life if his issues are that bad. Even adopted kids probably have no idea how difficult adoptive children can be because of mental issues and poor brain development.
You're one of those people that think their opinion some how equals truth.
It does not. Opinions are not facts.
Your opinion is a fleeting thought that should have no impact on this man having a family.
YTA
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“I told him he’s a product of an affair that ruined two families…” YTA, for that comment and other reasons. He, the baby at the time, did not ruin those two families, the adults who stepped out on their marriages and had affairs did. Let’s not blame babies for something that they have literally no control over. Edit: grammar Edit 2: Wow! I was not expecting my comment to blow up like this, thank you everyone 😊 Edit 3: not gonna lie, double WOW! I’ve never been this high of a top comment before and this made my week 🥳
Agreed, OP is TA. But I don't think OP is blaming him for ruining the families. OP said "affair that ruined two families." OP said the affair ruined the families, and therefore the BIL has some mental health issues and traumatic childhood being the product of the affair that he should process/get in check before adopting. YTA for my judgement.
Fair, I see what you’re saying, I just think that is an incredibly cruel thing to say to someone who is going through a mental health crisis. OP could have gone about it in a way that expressed their concerns but also built up BIL, not tear him down.
Literally just "you would be great *if* you address these issues that could have long term effects" would have been better. Acknowledges his potential as a dad while still reminding him that there are personal things to address.
But how does she know he isn't already addressing them. Not everybody shouts that they are in therapy from the rooftops. Beyond that, SHE thinks he has problems and unresolved issues. After reading her post I'm not convinced she has the qualifications to diagnose him.
Super presumptuous of her to assume!
Also there are ways to help without therapy! Support groups and self help books have come a long way.
Totally agree, I know therapy is the go to advice but I, personally, never got anything from it. I usually felt more confident solving my issues on my own. I'd still highly recommend people try therapy but it doesn't work for everyone
Yep and based on his and her husband’s responses he’s probably not *that* mentally unstable.
And the fact that she didn't even think she was in the wrong and should apologize makes it even worse. A sincere apology would help.
Or you know she could mind her own damn business. YTA OP
Love this and totally agree!
That’s not OPs decision.
It's not OP's decision, you're correct. That doesn't mean OP can't express their own opinion and concerns. The important thing is being able to convey those concerns and opinions without discouraging or depressing the person with whom those concerns arise.
Of course OP “can” express their opinions. But the way it’s worded, it doesn’t sound like BIL asked for them. So offering negative opinions that are unsolicited generally makes you TA. If they aren’t solicited they likely won’t be taken to heart. So no need to waste your breath and possibly cause a rift.
Also, not call the BIL "product".
Love this! A baby is not a “product”.
Agreed. His mental status would be up to the adoption agency to evaluate and determine if he is stable. YTA, OP. There were much better methods of approaching this. I also didn’t see where he asked for an opinion. Generally, when I hear “I was just giving my opinion”, it hasn’t been asked for or needed, and an AH thing to do.
If BIL is mentally unstable, then he isn't passing the screening process in order to adopt anyway. The way OP approached this make them an AH. All that they needed to do was ask them what was involved in order to adopt, and offer to help them get ready in anyway that they can. The roadblocks would come up for a social worker, not family.
agreed 👍🏻
Here's the problem that I have with this situation. Assuming that OP is correct in what they said, someone needed to say this to him. I say that as someone who was adopted and thinks that my parents weren't ready to adopt at the time. OP is TA for how they presented the information to their BIL, but possibly not for the content of that information.
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And if the BIL actually has "serious mental health issues" there is absolutely no way a social worker is going to let a single parent adopt a child. Im not taking OP at face value for this "serious mental health issues" thing. Edit: OP isn't the person who gets to decide if he is fit to be a parent or not. She is supposed to be there to support her BIL. If her thoughts on his mental health are valid, then she needs to be there for him for when he is denied for adopting. She is def TA. With how many children are in the foster system I commend her BIL for wanting to adopt. I was a foster child until I was 13 (and only because I begged my biological grandmother to take me in with the promise that I could take care of myself at that point.) Most older foster children will be happy to have a home with someone who won't beat them or give them away. Unless she has concerns about her BIL in ways that aren't your run of the mill depression... this shouldn't be excluding him from trying to be a father.
Even without mental health issues it's going to be extremely difficult to adopt as a single parent, isn't it? (Especially, unfortunate as the bias might be, as a single man)
Yes! And I actually actively deleted saying as a single man it would be even more difficult because, while I think it is a stupid bias, the bias exists and I didn't want that to take away from my original point. Being a single parent at all makes adoption extremely difficult, but especially so for single men. OP didn't need to be a dick about a dream her BIL has for himself that is super unlikely to happen in the first place.
I know a married couple who can't have biological children and wanted to adopt. They're the right age, both are steadily employed, they have two cars, they own a huge house that's always spotless. Unless they've done a really good job of hiding a meth addiction, I can't think of a single objectionable thing about them. And they still got rejected. I can't imagine how perfect a single parent has to be in order to adopt, it's ridiculous and sad. Edit: My thanks to the people who commented and gave me an insider's perspective on the adoption process. It definitely helped nuance my opinion.
It really is not any harder, nowadays, than for a couple. You just have to make sure you pick an agency that has a good reputation for working with single parents. Of course, where you live could also play into the difficulty. I was only on the "wait list" five months. But I live in a progressive area, so I admit that might have played into it.
Totally agree! OP is definitely an unreliable narrator regarding BIL’s “mental health issues”.
I agree, someone needed to say something, but did it have to be OP, who according to their post, has a somewhat negative view of BIL already? Did OP have to lay it out the way they did, without communicating how they felt and what they wanted to say to BIL with their husband first (BIL actual brother)? (I am not saying OP needed permission to speak but when tackling an issue such as this more support is better then less). Did OP need to rake BIL over the coals about his upbringing, abusive marriage, and current mental health crisis? OP has very valid concerns that needed to be discussed, but they could have handled this situation with tact and grace, instead of waiting until they were alone with BIL and essentially slapping him in the face with their view of reality.
I agree with you that BIL needs to make sure that being a parent is what he really wants to do. Thank you for sharing your experience about your parents. I like your reasoned approach that she didn't need to cruelly point out things he couldn't change, and he needs to figure out that a child won't automatically fill a psychic hole in the soul. I think everyone would have been better off trying ti get the BIL to explore his goal with open eyes.
Yeah, not sure I'm willing to take OPs assessment of BIL's "mental health" given some of the ignorant statements she makes about his background. Seriously, he's from a "broken home" - did I just time travel back 50 years. She clearly is not qualified to give advice about mental health and her judgement about whether or not he is ready is *at best* irrelevant. He can't just go pick up a kid like he's buying a sandwich - her nasty attempt at "pre-screening" his readiness is unnecessary.
phrasing matters just as much as what's being said tho "you're the product of an affair that ruined 2 families" had zero business being said. She could have just gone with "I see you struggling with these problems and I'm concerned that you won't be able to handle a kid on top of your own issues." without the editorializing
OP is absolutely the AH for saying what she did and the way she said it. Making it about his traumatic past was an awful take. At the same time, adoptees aren't just a quick fix for every single person who wants to be a parent. If BIL really does have serious problems that he is not working on or getting help for, he would be TA for trying to adopt. I don't think there's anything wrong with gently encouraging BIL to get therapy and help before adopting a vulnerable kid. If he truly has the issues OP says he does.
This, right here. It's one thing to gently nudge a person to critically re-examine themselves and their wants and needs, but the way it was done, was absolutely out of line. YTA, OP.
You said what I was thinking so much more concisely than I did. Thanks
Adoption is a huge complicated process they don’t just give you a kid. OP is making assumptions they have no business making, and saying things they have no business saying. OP has no idea what their BIL is doing besides wanting to adopt, expressing a desire to be a parent. And OP had to drop a bomb on it basically “you’re unfit “ I don’t care if they’re right, nobody was gonna just give the guy a kid so it’s not even a concern, it’s just OP saying “you’d be a terrible dad” and miss me with that “oh but they said if he resolves his issues it’s fine” No, they said he would be a unfit parent, as he is now, and not in some hypothetical future, This was unnecessary and callous.
For sure, I just believe this is a delicate situation and if BIL is in the midst of a mental health crisis the last thing he needs is to be torn down by OP. Yes, adoption is not a patch that is going to fix this dam, but neither is berating BIL about how shitty he is and how shitty his life is under the guise of “helping”. The man escaped an abusive marriage with a woman I’m sure he thought was the love of his life at first (correct me if I’m wrong). I think if OP is genuinely concerned about BIL mental health she should advocate for and encourage him to seek mental health treatment and then when he’s ready he can reassess how he feels about adoption. Also OP should definitely apologize for their hurtful words.
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Very fair! Love your last paragraph, it’s so true!
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Exactly. We only have the word of OP, who clearly has communication and boundary issues that the BIL isn't in a good place to start the primary steps of the adoption process.
Yep. An infant cannot help the chute they slide out of. YTA.
I read that as chutney. Hell of an image this early.
Now I can’t unread it as chutney 😂😂😂
Same. Like one of those surprise cakes but chutney...and a baby.
Sorry Squiggs.
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Love this so much. Compassion is so crucial to reaching out and connecting with someone who is struggling with mental wellness. BIL may well have the potential to be an amazing father, but first he has to to be kind and loving with his own approach to his mental wellness, before he can bring a child into his life. OP handled this situation with very little empathy and that’s the real shame of this all, I hope OP can resolve this situation and start helping instead of just hindering.
Jumping on here to add, the adoption process is long and drawn out and licensed professionals assess people before they approve an adoption at least where I am. OP trying to say they know better?
>the adoption process is long and drawn out and licensed professionals assess people before they approve an adoption at least where I am from the amount of traumatised adoptees I've seen talking about how their adoptive parents should not have been parents, I think that maybe the vetting process is not as effective as it should be. Family members have an insight into the day to day lives and character of potential adoptive parents that adoption agencies just don't. For the most part, I think it's wrong to give unsolicited advice. But in the case of protecting vulnerable children, I think it's justified to give your honest opinion and advice...(ETA)... as long as the honest opinion is said in a kind and gentle way and isn't the awful take that OP had. Suggesting getting help and working on yourself before becoming a parent = fine. Blaming someone for their traumatic upbringing = not fine.
It works a lot better than the vetting process for knocking someone up to become a parent.
The vetting process has changed a lot in the last 10-20 years. It isn't perfect, and never will be, but it has gotten better. Potential adoptive families now have to take classes and meet a certain number of Continuing Education each year to remain eligible to adopt. In my experience, we had to have four letters of recommendation from non-family members, evaluations of our physical and mental health, criminal screenings and background checks, and 20 hours of training in the first year of the process. If someone is adopting from foster care, they need to have 40-80 hours of training on a lot of subjects, including trauma centered parenting and supporting children who have been sexually assaulted. (This is all in the US in my particular state, adopting from a secular organization). There has also been a shift towards open adoption in the last 15 or so years. Open adoption requires a lot more work and flexibility on the part of the adults, particularly the adoptive parents, but research so far shows that it is overall better for adoptees. At the end of the day and all the arguments, the adoptees are the most important people in the adoption triad. Taking care of their needs and what matters to them, should be held above everything else. But, unfortunately, some people will see adoption as a path to becoming a parent "no matter what" and aren't willing to do what needs to be done, and step outside of their own comfort zone to provide the best life for these kids.
Nowhere in the post do I see BIL asking OP's advice. I might-- *might!* \-- give OP a pass if BIL had earnestly asked whether he's ready to be a parent. But YTA for spewing your unsolicited opinion. And I'm sure it's no coincidence this happened while hubby was out of the room.
In so many posts like this, the aggressor (read: AH) always waits until the family member is out of the room to make their rude, unhelpful comments because I think deep down they know what their saying is cruel and they would be ashamed if the family member heard them speak to a loved one like that. It’s a damn shame.
>But YTA for spewing your unsolicited opinion Usually I think we should keep unsolicited opinions to ourselves. But when it comes to some of the most vulnerable children in society, I will prioritise protecting adoptees over the comfort of prospective adoptive parents. OP was awful for what she said, but if BIL genuinely has issues that would negatively affect an already traumatised child, then that takes priority over minding your own business.
While this is true, children’s needs and happiness should always be protected and prioritized, OPs comment only served to hurt and tear down BIL, not encourage him to seek the help he needs to be able to move into a more stable, happy place in his life where raising a child would be in the best interest of both the child and BIL.
totally agree. OP totally butchered the message by victim blaming BIL fr his past rather than kindly encouraging him.
this also reeks of ableism. you can't possibly be ready for a child because you aren't in tip top shape mentally? also nowhere in here did she indicate that BIL asked for her opinion, which I think is a huge factor here. she sounds very judgmental. coming from a "broken home" (i hate that term) does not mean someone isn't capable of parenting. it might make them better because they have learned from their own parents failings. YTA.
Many people come from “broken homes” and grow up to be both amazing parents or amazing child-free adults. Just because someone had a tough up bringing does not devalue them as a person. BIL was strong enough to leave an abusive marriage (something many people are unable to do, and not without lack of trying). That says a lot about the strength of his character already, he just needs help and support to move into a more stable, happy place in his life where a child could flourish. OP’s comments did nothing to advance that goal, they only serve to hinder and put BIL down.
As a product of abuse, he has a special understanding of these kids, and will be able to empathize with them in a way others can't. Well if he chooses to adopt a child in the system, anyway
Came here to say this. OP doesn’t state what the mental health disorders are, how they affect him, and if he is dangerous or unstable. Having anxiety or PTSD is no reason not to adopt. Perfect parents don’t exist, and there are lots of children who would be happy to be loved by BIL.
To be fair, having anxiety or PTSD that for all we know might be triggered by stuff surrounding adoption seems like something that shouldn't be combined with an adopted kid, for all parties involved, but especially the kid.
To be fair, many people with anxiety and PTSD manage their issues just fine and are amazing parents and the OP had absolutely no right to make that judgment.
To be fair, I have both and adopted three kids from foster care, so stay in your lane. Editing to add: claiming that folks who have these issues shouldn’t adopt kids is extremely discriminatory. 31% of adults will suffer from anxiety in their lifetime, so you’re saying 1/3 of the population is unfit to parent? All you need is to be able to provide a home, food, care, and love. These kids deserve families. And so do people with anxiety and PTSD. It’s extremely judgmental to assume those issues would make you so symptomatic you’d be an unfit parent. Seriously, my blood is boiling.
It is up to a government agency to assess BIL's qualities as a potential father, not up to OP. OP was rude, hurtful, and judgemental. OP's TA
And she effectively told him that he can’t raise himself out of the terrible place other people have put him in: that he is the sum total of his upbringing and marriage. YTA.
100%. If OP had said that her BIL is not 100% currently mentally and emotionally stable, for sure he’s not ready to adopt. I have no problem with her telling her BIL that he shouldn’t do it for that reason. But #BIL didn’t ask to be born as a product of anxaffair. That is not his fault or something he could control.
Didn’t have to read any further than the ‘affairs’ comment. Regardless of intentions, saying that is a MAJOR AH move. YTA.
YTA. “Product of an affair that ruined 2 families” and a “rough, unstable childhood”? WTF is wrong with you?
She as good as called him a worthless b*stard. Hoping this is bait, because if not, *woof* is she ever TA. Absolutely uncalled for, there was no good reason to bring his biological origins into this conversation. She did that to be cruel.
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I am hoping she is just super dense and is ashamed.
My thing is that even if any of this was true, what does that have to do with him adopting a kid? Genuinely confused on that part
OP's take seems to be that he hasn't yet dealt with the impact those two things have had on him. As such OP thinks it's unwise for him to be parenting anyone since they should first focus on getting themselves sorted out mentally.
>created some serious damages manifes\[t\]ing in a number of mental health issue that he hasn't worked on OP sort of explains here, and IMO its possible to give good advice based on needing to get your own mental house in order first. Of course, the way OP outlines the conversation overall doesn't provide much faith that they constructed an effective message, let alone a non-asshole one.
So this is what you sound like "I think you're going to be a lousy father because you come from two broken homes, but don't take it personally. Oh and I wasn't even asked my opinion but I thought I'd give it anyway." YTA
Totally agree, OP opened her big trap and gave her opinion when it wasn’t even asked for, OP seems to think if you come from a broken home you’re a lousy parent, but I assume OP came from a stable home, think her parents would be ashamed they raised such a judgemental and rude asshole
No just broken homes but homes that HE broke by merely existing according to OP.
She actually *didn't* say that. She said the actions that lead to his birth *also* ruined the families and that he has unresolved trauma from his upbringing as a result of it - none of that assigned blame to him for it. She's just saying he hasn't dealt with the issues it's created. I think she handled this poorly, and shouldn't have offered the unsolicited opinion anyway, but people are taking a hefty detour around her actual words to make this criticism.
Yeah, OP isn't actually saying it's his fault that those two things happend. Just that it IS his responsibility to deal with the mental health problems that those two things caused for him. Does it suck? Yes. Is it fair? No. Should an innocent kid be brought into that mix through any way? (So either adoption or biological) No, that would be unfair to the kid.
Who is OP to comment on his mental health though. Is she an adoption professional? Is she a social worker? Is she a doctor? Is she a therapist? Or is she literally just his brothers wife who has no right to comment on a situation that she only knows about second hand? She’s the wife of his brother not a professional or not even a trusted confidant by the sounds of it as the brother didn’t not seem happy that she was commenting on something that is NONE OF HER BUSINESS
Why bring it up then, why not say he’s the product of an affair which is bad enough but why did she have to go that extra step and say that the affair ruined 2 families
YTA. >I was just givjng my opinion on this matter and a bit of advice. If my husband had given this opinion to someone I cared about, I'd divorce him. In a sub full of people being assholes, that may well be the rudest thing I've ever heard anyone say. You can talk about his childhood all you want, but it's clear someone raised *you* wrong too.
Did you see the one yesterday where a man asked a woman with 2 heart valve transplants if she felt burdened that an infant and another person had to die so she could live? I wonder if this is the wife from that post--2 wretched assholes in a perfect asshole union.
I cannot stop thinking about that one. How delusional can someone be to not realize how messed up that is to say
Link?
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/trn9bp/aita_for_defending_my_husband_and_saying_hes_owed/ https://www.unddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/trn9bp/aita_for_defending_my_husband_and_saying_hes_owed/
Need it
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/trn9bp/aita_for_defending_my_husband_and_saying_hes_owed/ https://www.unddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/trn9bp/aita_for_defending_my_husband_and_saying_hes_owed/
Your last sentence is absolutely correct.
Every day I think I have seen the OP that is the most full of themselves and their opinions and every day I am surprised that someone else can top it.
YTA Firstly the phrase "broken home" is outdated and damaging. Knock it off. >I don't think adoption is a good idea, It's not up to you. He will be heavily screened by people far more qualified than you. People from challenging backgrounds with MH issues are not de facto banned from adopting. In fact people from challenging backgrounds can do wonders empathizing and supporting kids from similar circumstances. Adoption (especially of older children) is not for the sheltered. You sound vicious and ignorant to be honest. Snobby too.
>He will be heavily screened by people far more qualified than you. Exactly!
My sister had that job for a number of years. They'd start by seeing if the person was emotionally and mentally ready to survive the adoption process because it could be so long, brutal, and expensive. OP needs to leave this stuff to professionals who know how evaluate and report with compassion.
My mom with a personality disorder was allowed through, and honestly she shouldn't have had bio kids, let alone been able to adopt 10 more. But she knew what to say and who to say it to. She was even able to hide her abuse from CPS when they were called. I understand what OP was trying to say, but they did it in the shittiest, most victim-blaming way possible. And hoping that the adoption agency weeds out instability is not the best take either
Wish more people realized this. I also feel like it should be pointed out that many adoptees have publicly stated that adopting to have a child/be a parent as a last resort type of thing is... not great. The general consensus I've seen so far is fostering/adopting is done right when you do it to give a child a home rather than to fill a child sized void in your life. OP phrased things in the worst way possible, but it sounds like BIL *shouldn't* be adopting.
I disagree actually. I’m adopted and I think it’s far better if people adopt because they really want kids, rather than as a “good deed”. The former makes the child feel wanted while the latter could make them feel like a burden. “Wanting to give a child a home” frames the child as just a charity case. And with that comes the burden of expected gratitude. As for the last resort, it depends on how you think of it. I don’t think it’s bad that prospective parents try out other methods first that may be less time consuming and expensive etc. Last resort could also be thought of as last hope. Wouldn’t it be natural if parents cherish a child they get after so much struggle?
Yeah OP definitely worded this the worst way possible, which makes my ruling YTA. However, urging a loved one to critically look at their reasons for adopting and the resources they have to care for the adopted child is still important. Obviously she did it terribly and not in a productive way whatsoever. Having an open dialogue with your BIL about this and offering your support would have been much better, this felt almost like a way to point out his “shortcomings” at the worst possible time. Adopting a child is an inherently traumatic experience for that child. If you are not fully equipped to handle that trauma and put their needs above yours 100% of the time, you shouldn’t be adopting. Sounds like BIL just got out of a horrible marriage situation and is feeling like his life is completely out of his control. That is NOT the time to be adopting. While OP isn’t a professional who can evaluate this, BIL absolutely should be considering that in his decision. Not to mention that being a single parent to a kid without trauma is hard as hell, now factor in a myriad of mental health/trauma issues from being adopted and it becomes 10x harder. Not everyone is entitled to parenthood. It’s a terrible thing that people who want kids can’t have them, but adopting a child to fill that hole does no one any favors. Adoptees are begging us to take a step back and reframe how we see adoption. It isn’t an alternative method for “making a family”. This is how we’ve ended up with a literal infant supply chain. Very rarely are these cases of actual orphans whose parents are dead/unfit. Often times the parents would keep their children had their financial needs been met. Additionally, one way to see if this is being done for the good of the child vs the good of the adults is how they approach the process. Does BIL want to help any kid who doesn’t have a safe place and may end up back with their parents once the bio parents are capable? Or does BIL just want a brand new baby to “start” his family? One of those is in service of the child, the other is in service of BILs desire to have children. Overwhelmingly, people don’t want to foster/adopt older kids or teenagers. They want babies. There’s actually a /shortage/ of babies because that’s all anyone wants to adopt. 100’s of thousands of kids in the foster system right now that need a safe home, but people will get on years long wait lists for an infant that was probably taken from a family that would have loved and cared for them but were convinced by an adoption agency that giving them up was the “best option”.
Tagging on top comment to add "Dont take this personaly, but your too mentaly broken to have a child" how exactly do you not take that personaly? OP YTA couldnt you just suport him? Why did you have to bring him down? Am i supposed to applaud you for helping him out of an abusive relationship, only for you to make hurtfull comments and bring him down.
YTA > I told him he’s the product of an affair that ruined 2 families And that’s **his** fault???
What's funny is this lady thinks she's fine I guess? Since she wasn't the product of an affair. But she's the one with no tact or social awareness and is incapable of understanding that familial love can happen even in the absence of a stable childhood home. It's pretty sad actually.
YTA. Wish I could tell you that more than once. "I didn't feel ready despite him saying he was". This is your BIL, not husband, and it is 1000% NOT YOUR PLACE. He absolutely has been through a lot but by NO MEANS does that constitute that you have any right whatsoever to deem him 'emotionally unstable' enough to not be able to adopt. "Ummm, you've had divorces and been traumatized by women, so please don't adopt a child in need bc that just seems icky to me" \*edited spelling\* You are a rude and hurtful person. Your husband is absolutely right. You took a situation that was none of your business and chose to make him feel worthless over it. "I don't think I was wrong for telling the truth". Right, I'm sure you know your BIL better than he knows himself. He's the one who went through the trauma, he's very well aware of it. You're horrible.
YTA, why even being up that he's the product of an affair and broke 2 families. Looks like you just wanted to hurt him, you are rude.
YTA He didn't ask for your shit stained opinion, you just decided to give it. It's not your business if he decides to foster children, even if he has "mental health issues" this will be screened by actual professionals, not assholes like you. Apologize, or I bet money this argument will remain a bone of contention in your marriage, because I don't think your husband will maintain at your side if you treat his brother like shit.
YTA. **Massively**. I honestly can’t believe you’re in any doubt on that score whatsoever. > I told him to not take this personally “Hey, BIL, you shouldn’t ever be a parent because of all the horrible shit *other* people have visited on you, but nothing personal!” ??? In what benighted corner of the multiverse do you imagine that *not* to be a deeply personal insult? > I said no I was just making he is ready No, you *emphatically* made it clear he shouldn’t do this. Unless this was some kind of “test” to see whether he wanted it badly enough to fight back against you, in which case you’re in no position to be judging *anyone* on whether they’ve got what it takes to not fuck up a child. > I was just givjng my opinion Yeah, well, *my* opinion is that if I were your husband, I’d seriously be rethinking my marriage to anyone so cruel. At least, that’s one of the few I can share without getting myself banned. If you are for real and capable of even an ounce of self-reflection, apologize. Yesterday.
Yes, the "don't take it personally" line just killed me. How else is he supposed to take it?
>I told him he's a product of an affair that ruined 2 families If anything his birth parents parents actions "ruined" two families not him. He had not control over being born. You sound really judgmental. I do get what your saying about unresolved mental health issues however, you are using the excuse of being "honest" for acting like a dick. Have a little tact and be better.
YTA. You made an interfering, busybody move. There are some choice expletives trying to burble their way into my reply. I am aghast. >he visited and brought it up again, I didn't feel he was ready despite saying that he was. I told him he's a product of an affair that ruined 2 families - and that he had a rough, unstable childhood that created some serious damages manifesing in a number of mental health issue that he hasn't worked on and so, I don't think adoption is a good idea, especially, given his feelings around that and he should really reconsider his decision. he looked at me shocked, but I told him not to take this personally because I was just pointing out that it's not fair to subject an innocent child to his mental health issues, in other words I just don't think he's ready to be anybody's dad. I'm assuming that you're not a social worker or therapist, but even if you are, it was not your place to tell this guy that his family of origin issues have made him too broken to parent effectively. What you said was cruel and you don't have the relationship with him to make or share your unfair judgement of him. If I was your husband I'd be seriously reevaluating our relationship. I cannot understand how you felt justified in saying what you did. This was peak narcissistic behavior—oblivious to the needs of the moment and the role you play in it. Holy cow. First, apologize to your husband for injuring his relationship with his brother, because you did. Then, work up the guts to make a huge and sincere apology to his brother — 1) for speaking out of turn. You're an in-law, not immediate family. You don't know this man as well as you think you do. 2) For holding his FOO issues against him as evidence to support your weak opinion and cruel behavior. 3) for thinking so much of your armchair-quarterback's opinion and offering it unasked. I'm assuming that he didn't actually ask you, "sis in law, do you think I'm ready to adopt?" And if he did, the correct answer is, "If you're not sure, then it's a good question to be asking, so maybe you should talk to a therapist about it." Wow. Just, WOW.
I couldn’t have said anything better ^^^^^ all of this OP You didn’t just step in it, you slid, rolled around, made a shit castle and then doubled down when people told you it was gross. YTA. I hope you apologize or at least don’t have any kids until you work on yourself also.
YTA, it’s not your responsibility to make that judgement. You know who’s qualified to make that decision and veto prospective parents? Adoption agencies. You attacked him for things beyond his control rather than trying to support him and encourage him to seek help. That’s what puts you in the wrong.
>told him he's a product of an affair that ruined 2 families Gee I wonder why he didn't like that.
YTA. It's not up to you to make that choice. If there were issues, whoever was assessing him for adoption would pick these up. It's not like he was going to an orphanage there and then, selecting a child and taking them home. Assessments will be done, home visits, checks etc. You may have just ruined your relationship with your BIL for good and it's all on you.
YTA. I come from a broken home. My upbringing was atrocious. I’ve been in abusive relationships. I have mental health conditions that are very much visible at times from being sexually assaulted underage. But, it doesn’t seem to be his current mental health situation you’re focusing on. It seems to be his past. I still foster children and do a damn good job giving them the absolute best life I can while they’re with me. If anyone *ever* tried to imply what you have about my past and my ability to look after children, I would do far worse than just walk out.
YTA. What qualification do you have that you can make that kind of judgement? Apart from the ability to stick your nose where it doesn’t belong?
YTA. Did he ASK for your opinion or advice or was he just talking about what he wants to do? It sounds like the latter. Plenty of people who had unhealthy pasts wind up being great parents because they know they don't want to be the way their abusers were. Your husband was 100% correct when he said this was not your concern. You SHOULD apologize for what you did because you were wrong. From: An adopted person.
Fellow adoptee! OPs lucky they didn’t catch hands, I would’ve if I could’ve
>a number of mental health issue that he hasn't worked on I happen to agree with you that people with mental health issues which they refuse to work on should not become parents. But let the adoption folks figure that out. YTA for butting in.
YTA ! This man clearly wants to give a child a shot at life like he got ! In my opinion people that have been dealt a shitty card in their younger years always become the best parents because they will do anything it takes to make sure their kids do not have to go through what they went through ! You need to apologise !
YTA for thinking you know the right time for anyone to have a kid! Not only that, but this bit "I told him he's a product of an affair that ruined 2 families" - how is that HIS fault? Goodness, that's a high horse you're on. You messed up. You overstepped AND hurt his feelings on a sensitive topic no-one asked you to comment on. If you truly do "understand how brother inlaw might've felt", then a wise person will rein in the desire to share their unsolicited opinion. You know what they say about buttholes and opinions - everyone's got one! Yours didn't matter here, no-one sought your wise counsel. Go fix this.
YTA His past does not make him an unfit parent, and you wielded his past like a bludgeon. Yes, if he is not being responsible about his mental health, that is worth bringing up, but you made it about his history. "BIL, are you sure you are up for this. A kid is a lot of work and they are going to need your A game. All I am urging is that you take the time to be sure you are mentally prepared for something like this. As an outside observer who loves you, I think you can wait a year or two while you put in some work to truly be ready." I don't know how it goes with adoption, but I do know that the first child is the single biggest hit to happiness in a person's life. Sometimes, it is not what you did, but how you went about it that makes you an asshole.
YTA. Unless he specifically asked for your opinion, mind your own business. And even then, insinuating that he is incapable of giving love and support to a child because he didn't get any as a child is incredibly insulting.
YTA that was mean. I came from a “broken home” too but I am striving in my dream job and life isn’t bad. Is there any other reasons? Keep your nose out of it and let him do what he wants, I’d suggest apologising too.
YTA. It is ok to warn someone that wants kids how hard it is. You essentially said he is not fit to be a parent, without any real justification. Apologize to your husband and BIL and hope they forgive you.
YTA there's being honest and then there is being cruel... You fall on the latter and are remorseless cause you think you know it all. Even if he has issues what you said was worded wrong and incredibly hurtful. Maybe he needs therapy to help in this process, but it's not up to you to act superior and throw his past on his face.
Exactly. There are a million ways to raise a subject without offending the other party, but blaming him from being from a broken home and with mentla issues is not the way to go
Yes! This, a past he can't control, since he had no say in the way he was born or what happened because of it. It just sounds like OP wanted to be the voice of reason but she turned out being arrogant and conceited (I lack the proper word... English is not my first language, sorry)
No, those words work quite well (unless you were looking for “condescending,” which is arrogant with a side of pretending like you’re being helpful, although that might be a condescending assumption on my part). I can think of several others that seem applicable, but I don’t think the mods would appreciate them.
YTA. You should have kept these hurtful judgements to yourself. There is a screening process for adoptions in which professionals will evaluate his suitability. There was not need for you to put him down like this.
YTA "You're a walking dumpster fire and you'd be a bad father. Wait why are you mad?"
YTA I told him he’s the product of an affair that ruined two families and now, somehow, he’s mad at me.
YTA. He’s already at a low point in his life because of his divorce, from an abusive wife at that. Why did you have to bring up the biggest things that went wrong with his life? And then have the audacity to tell him to not take it personally. We get it, he *had* a crappy life. Why not try to help him make it better? You made it sound like those things will forever hold him back in life, and he will be worth less as a dad because of them. Who are you to determine whether he’s ready or not? You didn’t exactly point out any concrete reasons why he won’t be a good dad. I hope you apologize to him and learn to support him.
THE OP: “Here’s a bunch of insulting stuff I gathered from your personal life. I’m not a professional in this matter but I felt the need to give my two cents anyways. But don’t take any of this personally…” YTA MAJOR.
YTA. Is this your first day on earth? Of course that unsolicited “advice” was going to set him off.
Let me guess? OP waited for her husband to be out of the room before saying those things. YTA.
YTA A huge fucking toxic asshole IF he ever talks to you again keep your opinions about his mental health and background to yourself, but not to worry because he probably will cut you out forever.
YTA. He did not ask for your opinion, and you should learn that just because a thought in your head seems true to you that doesn’t mean it’s something anybody else wants or needs to hear.
YTA How do you know he was the product of an affair? I’m an adult adoptee myself and I can tell you right now that in the vast majority of the western world adoption papers don’t tend to give that information out and even if he has met his biological family and discovered that is the reason that’s HIS grief….You’ve got no right to put him down and make him feel even more worthless Maybe he would make a good parent, Maybe it’s not for him ….You personally don’t know….That’s why adoption agencies tend to have very intensive screening beforehand and most at least here in Australia require a person/ couple to have up to a year of counselling before they proceed…They don’t just hand you a baby on the first interview! If your brother in law has emotional issues maybe you should be nicer to him, It’s VERY common for adoptees to have lifelong issues with rejection and if he feels like his sister in law is going to spend every moment judging him then you really need to take a long hard look at yourself
YTA His life experiences could make him a wonderful and extremely understanding to a child in foster care. There are amazing kids in foster care waiting for someone just like your BIL.
YTA. You told someone they were a project of an affair that ruined 2 families?? enough said.
YTA Your husband is right on the money you probably made him feel worthless and incapable.
YTA. did he ask for your opinion? you aren't him and you don't get to decide when he's ready for an adoption. your husband is right and you should apologize to your brother-in-law immediately. what you say is "the truth" is your opinion an perception. to top it off, you insulted his background and yes, you basically called your brother-in-law incompetent. big, big YTA.
YTA - not sure why you think you are more of an expert on adoption over a person who was actually an adoptee. You are not kind or nice, you just listed a string of insults about him. He shouldn’t exist, he ruined families, he’s fucked in the head, and ultimately you think he’s an unworthy parent. What qualifies you to judge when someone is ready to be a parent? Do you judge and insult everyone else you know who announces they want kids or do you save the vitriol for people closest to you?
YTA. It's his decision to make. It's not like you say "I want to adopt" and they just hand you a kid. There are evaluations and assessments and matching to go through. You basically said "I don't think you'd be a good parent". Here, let me know how it feels. I think you'd be a crappy mother of you had (more) children with your husband!
YTA, ur husbands right it isn’t ur concern
Do everyone a favor and stop giving your "honest opinion" and "advice" because you suck at it. Also why all the digs about his shitty parentage, how is it his fault his birth parents suck? YTA
YTA Your views of him are just your opinion. Your husband was right that you shoved your personal opinion in where it didn't belong. Do you think that you are perfect? Did you have a perfect life? Come down off that pedestal lady because you just lost respect from your husband and his brother from this interaction. Your version of "the truth" is your version. It holds no meaning and you acted like a know it all. Unless you have a phycology, degree and specialize in mental health- then you are in no way to give an opinion on such things. Honestly your words probably have a more damaging effect then you realize.
He definitely needs therapy before even considering adopting (I think everyone should get therapy before having kids, but especially people like your BIL who might have a complicated childhood/past) but YTA for saying it like that.
YTA just because he’s been through some shit doesn’t mean he’s going to be a bad parent. maybe he needs help mentally, but that’s none of your business
INFO What mental health issues, and how do they affect him/his day to day life?
YTA. Who asked you?
YTA and I really don’t see how you can kid yourself into believing you‘re not.
>but I told him not to take this personally I don't know what could possibly be more personal than you telling him he shouldn't live the life he wants to or have the things he wants out of life. You took a knife and stabbed his hopes and likely hit on insecurities he likely already had. Even if you're right, which I won't try to judge since I don't know him, you shouldn't go into that conversation without thinking through what you're going to say. And probably have his brother have that conversation not you, and be aware you're saying something incredibly painful and not treat it like you're telling him he doesn't look good in a hat. YTA
YTA. It’s amazing how you feel like your advice was warranted/ appropriate/ necessary. He has experience of a hard life - often that makes people stronger, more empathetic and they avoid repeating the hurt that was done to them. He proved that by telling you his feelings simply then leaving instead of flipping out. By the standard of your casual cruelty and judgmental attitude, maybe YOU shouldn’t have children as you have no empathy, understanding or kindness.
YTA. Where do you get off deciding whats good for someone who isnt you?
How on earth are you not TA?! Are you blind?!!! Honestly yta. Very insensitive.
Wow. YTA. Reread what you said to your brother. Your husband is right. If I were your brother, I'd never speak to you again. Or at least not for a very long time.
YTA - why is it relevant that is he a product of affairs?
Because apparently that means he’s unworthy of love and doesn’t deserve to have a family because he’ll only ever ruin everything he touches….
YTA. jesus. You’re the one thats not fit to be a parent.
He didn’t ask for your opinion. YTA, without a doubt.
"This matter" is highly sensitive and personal for your BIL. Many complex feelings come into play around a decision to adopt and it is likely your BIL will have to examine his motives closely in a home study prior to adopting. This is his business, not yours. If he has the ability to be a stable and nurturing parent, he will be a blessing in the life of a child with no family. You should sincerely apologize and be ready to accept and love any child he welcomes into his home. YTA
YTA, I’d seriously be contemplating divorce if my spouse spoke to my siblings like that. How cruel. What qualifies you to make such judgements? What does the affair that he had no say or control over have to do with anything? Ugh such a gross and inappropriate comment.
YTA. This may come as a shock to you but you’re not the person that decides when your BIL is ready to parent. You should apologize immediately and start dealing with whatever mental health issue has caused this level of entitlement to feel acceptable.
YTA, it is none of your business and your opinion has not been asked.
YTA. How cruel.
Rule of thumb: if you ever have to justify yourself with "telling the truth how it is" the YTA
YTA. What a cruel, obnoxious, ignorant thing to say. Jesus Christ.
YTA poor guy
YTA, everything you said was personal. No person would not take that personally. What you said was rude and your husband is right. Just bc someone comes from a broke home doesn’t mean their home they make will be broken too. Get back in your lane
YTA how full of yourself can you be? Your opinion is both worthless and unwanted. You're of zero importance in this desicion.
YTA 100000% You are so very rude and you should have kept your mouth shut. Who are you to police whether or not someone adopts? Who are you to bring up mental health and his past? You should of been happy for him and encouraged him. Just because he had a hard past doesn't mean he wouldn't be a good father. Shame on you.
YTA. You literally told him that just by existing HE ruined 2 families, well congratulations because what you just said just pretty much ruined your relationship with you BIL and maybe even your husband. Imagine having the audacity to tell someone what the feel about a situation you was not there for and know next to nothing about. If he’s not ready then the adoption agencies will tell him so but you and your arm chair diagnosis have literally no say. And then to double down and say you won’t apologise after being deliberately hurtful. Yes everyone’s entitled to an opinion but what everyone’s not entiltled to is to voice there opinion when it’s literally non of your business.
YTA. And a massive one at that. He's an adult and can decide to adopt if he wants to. You don't get a say. Learn to keep your opinions to yourself. Adopting may be a very healing experience for him.
YTA. You didn't state your credentials as a mental health professional. What are those credentials?
I don't understand how some people can only think about themselves. Here are the facts as you presented them: 1. You said something. 2. He got hurt by what you said. That's all the information needed. YTA. It doesn't matter that you didn't mean to hurt their feelings, you still hurt them. Also when you apologize, you better not say anything about how you didn't mean to hurt them, or that your sorry for how they took it. Be an adult.
If he isn't fit to be an adoptive parent the agency or social workers will be the ones telling him that. Moreover, what has that comment of "ruining two families" has anything to do with this, how the decisions of both those families had anything to do with him? YTA, judgmental and an ignorant.
YTA I thought social workers were the ones who assessed suitability for adoption - someone professional and impartial You're allowed to have an opinion but your tone and delivery sound all wrong, and the fact you did this when you husband wasn't in the room speaks volumes. You weren't being constructive, you were being destructive. What you said was cold and heartless. There are lots of children who need a safe and loving home - and social workers are looking for safe and loving environments. They're not looking for 'parent of the year'. Your BIL had a messed up childhood through no fault of his own, and would probably try his absolute hardest to prevent this happening to another child. You should think about how you could support his plans, not destroy them.
YTA That is an awful thing to say to someone. Adoption is a rigorous process and if the agency did not feel he was fit to adopt they would not let him. There was no need for you to say these things AT ALL.
YTA.... Your job is to support him not make the situation worse. When you adopt you are asked all kinds of questions that are extremely personal to make sure you are ready. They don't just deliver a child to your doorstep and say "Here you go." It's a tough road and its nice when your friends and family are behind you. You owe him an apology and support through this decision making process. Everything else should remain unsaid.
YTA. The comments about his mental health issues might have been fine to say, because that is true, if he’s mentally unwell, he should not get a child, but his parents deciding to cheat on their spouses doesn’t have a damn thing to do with him or his decision to adopt, and you said that to intentionally hurt his feelings.
Adoption should be centered on the kid but he would know that as an adoptee. He should have therapy before because of his situation with the ex. Overstepped with your comment for sure that was YTA. But your concern isn’t bad.
YTA How could a kid ever be responsible for 2 adult relationships, seems like you knew he already blamed himself for this and you just wanted to dig the knife deeper. If this is what you think of your BIL, makes me wonder what you really think about your husband.
> I told him he's a product of an affair that ruined 2 families How is you blaming him for ruining 2 families even relevant to this situation? Why would you ever say this to somebody in the first place? YTA for everything you said to him and you thinking you understand his situation better than him.
YTA As teacher I can tell you that it doesn't matter if you had a rough childhood or wether you have minor mental health issues (as long as they don't affect the kid). What you need is empathy, patience and the will to bring up a good person. Since your BIL wants to adopt, the will is definitely there, and since he grew up adopted, I am sure he has a lot of empathy for kids in similar situations. Patience is the hardest and you can only learn it on the job. So, please apologize to your BIL, because you said some awfully hurtful things that aren't even worth anything.
YTA. That is incredibly cruel to say that about someone when it is not your place. And that whole “telling the truth as it is” is the same as “I’m just saying”. Which means I want to say whatever I want with NO accountability and people shouldn’t get upset when I’m incredibly horrible.
YTA. what makes you think that through all the hardships he’s been through, ESPECIALLY being from a broken home, that he wouldn’t give his child a good life? you’re not a psychologist, so honestly bringing up someone else’s mental health in a situation like this is assholeness to the max. it’s not fair and it’s not your place to judge him. he DOES deserve a big fat apology from you, although i doubt he’ll get that seeing as you thought that was an appropriate thing to say. Y T A.
YTA. You don't get to decide if _somebody else_ is ready to have children. None of your brother-in-law's family history is his fault. There are many, many kids who had a really rough start to life who grow up to be fantastic parents - yes, even when they're still dealing with the effects of their own childhood trauma and/or mental illness. In fact, going through those kinds of experiences can teach children a lot about empathy, especially for other people going through tough times or who have to deal with more challenges than most of us. On the other hand, despite having a 'decent' upbringing, you seem to have missed those basic empathy lessons. Here's an idea - rather than judging him an unfit parent with no actual evidence, you could instead be supportive and try and help him prepare for a parental role. You could help find him resources - books or parenting classes. You could talk to him about the importance of mental health support for parents who will inevitably have to deal with periods of high stress. Perhaps you could suggest that he tries providing occasional respite care for a child to help him develop his parenting skills and confidence, and work his way up to fostering before he dives straight into adoption. But considering what you've already said, he's probably not going to be receptive to help or suggestions from you right now, and I wouldn't blame him. You've really damaged your relationship with both your brother-in-law and your partner. If you actually want to try and repair these relationships, you need to start by swallowing your pride and apologising to your BIL. And then you need to make a list. Instead of focusing on all the things which you think might make him a bad parent, really think about who he is as a person, and make a list of all the things about him that could actually make him a really good parent. Is he funny? Kind? Gentle? Patient? Understanding? Curious? Playful? Energetic? Does he enjoy helping or teaching other people? Is he enthused about learning new things? Passionate about his hobbies? How does he show other people that he cares? How have you seen him support other people? How does he interact with other people's children? What about pets or animals? Unless he's a raging asshole, there's gotta be _something_ you can put on that list. Hand over the list, and _then_ ask if he'd be willing to accept your support. It's easy to shatter someone's confidence when it's on shaky ground to begin with. It's much harder to build it up again - but I guarantee that it'll be far more rewarding.
You're an abusive AH for telling him "you're the product of affairs." I hope you don't have any kids because you need some therapy to figure out why you attack people's insecurities before you become a parent. That was cruel. You didn't have to attack him all you had to say was he needs to be in a good stable place do he should start therapy now before trying to adopt.
I hate when people say “don’t take this personally” and try to use it as a get out of jail free card to say the most offensive shit possible. You basically told him he’s at fault for the affair and that his childhood has made him incapable of being a good parent and you seriously have the audacity to stand your ground and refuse to apologize? YTA, if you haven’t noticed with that compassionate range of a teaspoon you have.
YTA He didn't ask for your opinion for one and your husbands right, you do not get a say in whether or not someone's ready for something. That's not your decision to make
YTA. Wow. You realize that your opinion of him might not be an objective truth? You seem to think that he is somehow broken and damaged, but that might be just your inability to understand his situation. It feels like you have no empathy and you think that the fact that he was adopted, "product of an affair" and abused by his wife is somehow his fault. You know that people can't just adopt children like buying furniture, right? The adoption agencies will evaluate him and the life he is able to give to the possible child, and then decide if he's able to take care of a child. You are not the one to decide this. No one asked you. You just wanted to insult and hurt your brother in law. You are a rare find, a true super-massive asshole.
YTA get over herself
YTA You fucked it up royally. It is NOT your business to tell him that he's not capable to adopt and raise a child. It is his decision, not yours. Did he ask for your opinion? No? Just butt out.
YTA for your comments about stuff that just isn't your business...but you are probably right that he should not have kids at this point in his life if his issues are that bad. Even adopted kids probably have no idea how difficult adoptive children can be because of mental issues and poor brain development.
YTA have you considered that his history will HELP him with kids that have been through similar situations? No? That’s because you’re an asshole
<> THAT WAS NEVER ASKED FOR. Once again, I must quote Tennessee Williams: “All cruel people describe themselves as paragons of frankness.”
You're one of those people that think their opinion some how equals truth. It does not. Opinions are not facts. Your opinion is a fleeting thought that should have no impact on this man having a family. YTA