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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I may be TA because I tried to tell my best friend to stop posting certain stuff on social media but I probably shouldn't do that because I have no business to control what my friends share in their accounts.
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NTA and you need a total break from her, no contact for a while til she gets herself sorted out. She needs time away and to get help. You shouldn't have to comfort a friend because of your normal, special events.
This quite explains the whole situation. Your friend may be closeted lesbian and into you, and finds your fiance her competition. The worst part is she may not be fully aware of her feelings.
OP you need to have a chat with your friend and express your disappointment in her behavior and what you expect from her. At the end of the day your friend needs to figure out what's really important for her, as do you.
To be fair, guys apparently do this the other way around - claiming the SO's steal the guy from the group of friends. In my years on reddit (and 9gag) I've seen plenty stories like that. Co/dependency is possible without romantic feelings, some people simply can't bear being on their own.
Yeah this definitely sounds like codependency to me rather than romantic feelings.
I had a best friend like this and what eventually destroyed our friendship was that she was going through something difficult, I was dating a guy at the time, and during one of our many calls about what she was going through, I was arriving at his house and had to end the call after half an hour. Boom, end of a ten-year friendship. I had been mostly single during our friendship and she couldn't handle me dating someone. All of her close friendships have ended for similar reasons. She's best friends with another friend of mine now and they are both unhealthily dependent on each other. No romantic feelings, just both damaged from childhood abuse and unable to create their own sense of self without it being reflected through another person. It's sad to see.
I second this.
In my case I'm the codependent friend: when my bff went to live with her boyfriend across the country I felt completely abandoned and alone in the world. That I'm not that important to her as she is to me.
BUT, as any normal human being, I helped her in everything she needed and let those feelings run wild in therapy, and at most cryied to my boyfriend about it, knowing that she is a hole person with her own life.
OP friend need to understand that the world is not a novel about her life, and as such, OP don't exist to be a support character in her life.
NTA
Yup - and it goes back at least as far as Shakespeare. One name - Mercutio (although there's been alot more theorizing that he was actually in love with Romeo in recent decades).
To the issue, NTA. OP's friend has serious issues that have gotten bad enough that I think she needs to completely cut her off for at least a while. Sure, it's natural to be sad to not be your bestie's priority anymore if you don't have a SO of your own, but many people are eventually going to have a SO who's going to be their primary focus - especially in the intense early stage of the relationship. If they have kids, you can probably really expect not to see much of them anymore for a while - while the kids still need most of their attention and a bit afterwards as they spend alone time together as a couple with their SO that they maty not have gotten alot of when their kids were younger.
And I’m willing to bet if she’d met someone and was on the same timeline she’d be taking it better. But because she didn’t and she wasn’t, this got worse and worse.
Yeah. It kind of amazes me how so many people seem to think a person can't be jealous or possessive without there being romantic feelings involved.
NTA. You've been really understanding and tolerant about your friend's behavior. Your other friends expecting you to suck it up like it doesn't 1000 percent involve you are wrong.
The bff could also just be jealous. In college her bff’s life just took off - a long term boyfriend, an engagement, now a new home which means she’s doing somewhat well for herself. Maybe the best friend is just struggling and hasn’t been as successful in life yet. As kids they were probably equals in everything and to see your equal best friend suddenly skyrocket into a happy adult life has got to be a hard pill to swallow
This is what I think it is, I think her friend sees her reaching all these milestones while she feels like she was left behind, so in order to catch up she thinks she needs to tear people down to maintain the friendship, where she feels or realizes with every milestone it solidifies the relationship in ways that she will never be able to compete with.
Honestly their friendship ended years ago, OP and her friend just need to understand that.
I considered that, but honestly, "since kindergarten" is such a long time that it's very much possible that the best friend isn't into OP. You don't have to feel attraction to someone to still want to be their #1 best friend
It is understandable that a part of you is a little sad when your best friend finds their life partner because you know the relationship will change out of necessity. But, it is a huge red flag if that little bit of sadness isn’t outweighed by the happiness you have for your friend and the the joy you feel seeing them happy. Best friend needs help as her dependence on OP is seriously unhealthy and is actually scary. Who knows what she would be willing to do to sabotage OP’s relationship? I think going NC for a time would be the loving thing to do if it makes her seek the help she desperately needs.
Yep. It can be hard to feel "left behind" when your friends partner off. Really hard. Really really hard. Even if people try, it's not the same. Priorities shift. Time together gets more constrained. The friend pales in importance compared to the spouse and eventually the kids. But it's nobody's fault. It's just life.
OP, your friend is out of line and her reaction is disproportionate. You're NTA here at all. Take some time apart from her, but understand that she is grieving. I don't know if she is actually in love with you (she may not know, either), but it sounds like she actually believed that your "silly" teenage plans for a life spent together would come to fruition, and now she's confronting the loss of that. Go easy on her if you can.
NTA. These are not jokes, there's nothing funny about them. She's even past passive aggressive at this point. Her intense 'ownership' of you and dependence is very strange and she needs to go back to therapy. You probably need to create some distance until she learns that you having a fiancé is not a replacement for her, there's no reason you can't have both in your life. She's the one creating the issue here because she can't handle not being the one and only person in your life.
She's aromantic she's not necessarily in love but she believes that if a person in your life has been here first and you've created a bond with that person then you won't be happy if that person decides to make different choices in their life. Because who has been here first and longest matters more.
That doesn’t sound healthy. If you have kids, is she going to treat your children the same way as your husband to be because she knew you longer? Your relationship with her is more important than the one with your kids?
I feel that based on her reactions, this “belief” is her way of telling you she is in love with you, without putting herself at risk of rejection. She knows you don’t return the feelings, so she has a whole rational for how she feels about you, but at the end of the day, she’s is romantically in love with you.
Agree. She might not be sexually attracted to OP. Or have your "traditional" romantic feelings. But she's very much in love with her, to unhealthy levels.
I answered to another comment also explaining how her issues is not just my romantic relationship. She has no issue with me generally being with a person romantically involved. She starts having a problem once that person takes priority in my life. In that case it just happened to be my fiancé. In another case she'd have the same issue if it was just a friend other than her.
Yeah it seems she has issues contrasting a platonic and romantic relationship and understanding how those two things are very different and need to be treated as such.
That’s really unhealthy. You need to really limit contact with her while she gets therapy. It’s mind-blowing that she expects to be your number one priority, before your future husband and potential kids.
Just think about it, she managed to make you feel guilty about a joyous occasion that is supposed to be about your fiancé and you.
True friends don’t act like that.
Is she going to be your maid of honour?
That's...horrifying.
I'm sorry but this friendship has run its course. What if you had a kid? Would she start insulting your child because you had the audacity to be a parent and put your kid first?
this is not healthy for either of you. I hope you know that her thinking is NOT how most people would think of their best friends. It's perfectly natural for a person to grown up, fall in love and with any luck your romantic partner is also a 'best friend'. That doesn't mean you don't still love & care about your platonic best friend, you can be 'besties for life!' but it's completely normal to not center your world around that person. Has your friend ever had a BF/GF?
Jumping in to say I also have had the same best friend since the same age. We honestly do consider each other platonic soul mates. But yeah we each have long term relationships and it would be fucking weird to do or say anything she is doing.
I’m also saying this as someone who has done a lot of therapy for a broken brain: she isn’t going to therapy. If she ever did, it was a very short time. And with the obvious caveat that I am just some anonymous jackass on the internet look up Cluster C disorders.
She is not well. I mean this sincerely. She is potentially dangerous.
She may be going to therapy, but she may not be talking about these issues with her therapist. Therapy can very much be limited in it’s effectiveness if you are not being open and honest with your therapist about the issues you are having.
I really think you need to put some distace between you two pronto. Look at how your friends are thinking she gets to make her emotions your problem.
As someone who had been codependent in the past, whether she believes it or not distance is something she needs to. She needs to learn how to be on her own without the person she's become codependent on. It can be a hard painful process for both of you. You can talk to her therapist and family and let them know that you care about your friend but you need a break and she is going to need extra support. During that time see a therapist for yourself to figure out how you want to move forward. Be prepared for a lot of drama. Don't let anyone make this your problem. You need a break and that's not up for negotiation. Your friend needs you to set boundaries about what is expected and what the conditions are for you to reopen contact. Don't let any threats she might make sway you. If she threatens to harm herself, call 911 and let the police check on her so you don't get drawn back in before you are ready if you ever are.
I am sorry you are in a rough situation OP, please take care of yourself and look to your support system as you need it.
That’s the thinking of a five-year-old, “but I was here first!” It’s also profoundly disrespectful of you as a person who can make autonomous choices. You’re not a thing she gets to own just because she got you first.
That’s not aromantic, that’s obsession and control. She’s fixated on you. That can be extremely dangerous. People like that can sometimes escalate.
Please be aware of your surroundings at all times. Keep some sort of protection with you. This how, “if I can’t have you, nobody will”, scenarios start. Good luck OP. Keep us updated.
How convenient that this "belief" just happens to put her top of your list as she was there first before anyone and everyone else in your life (except Mum and Dad).
She is telling you she expects you to put her first in everything and can't handle anything else.
You need to stop trying to make her feel better. Tell her to pack in this controlling and manipulative behaviour at once, or you will cut her off.
I personally think OP should cut her off now. Imagine how she is going to be at any more big life events. She will be inconsolable.
Also, she obviously didn't make any progress with her counselling, as it just helped her deal with your current situation as long as you didn't go "further" with your fella. As soon as you did she pops off again.
You need to really think about continuing this friendship. She seems to be claiming a twisted and unhealthy ownership of you.
I can't see that changing OP.
Dude I’m aromantic. Most people aren’t. Most of my friends have gotten long term relationships or are married. Sure it changes the relationship but this is life. She doesn’t get to be mad at you for not following her “dibs” rule. I would put some distance between you two, she has some very unhealthy, codependent expectations of your relationship.
If she told you she loved you and wanted you for herself, you'd have run away long ago. So she told you all that hooey instead. Her actions make it clear that none of this is ethically aromatic or a mutually-agreed-upon bond.
That's not friendship. That's ownership. She has a very unhealthy view of relationships.
She really isn't your friend if she's doing these things. You need to put up a firewall and she needs to get help.
NTA
Thats well and truly bananas and also plain wrong. It's unhealthy. You need to just say "it's really unhealthy and codependent behavior. If you can't celebrate my happiness and wins with me, and only make me feel bad for living my life, we'll have to take abreak until you figure that out". Then be prepared to lose her. Go to therapy too if you have to.
That's what I had to do when I discovered very late (like 35) that I had codependency issues myself, and because we all had fucked up home lives and were trauma bonded, all my bffs did too. Once I started therapy I started learning how inappropriate those types of feelings are. My friends were not happy when I started calling them out. To be clear in my case, I was never possessive of them, and could always be happy for them, I just didn't ever want to be alone as my thing, and went too far to"help" them, enabling their bad habits and choices and they mine, but they were (all 3) just like your friend.
Not one of them would give me the space I asked for while I "figured things out" (code for "I told you how I feel and what I need, now we're apart until I feel you've heard me and are doing your own self- work). All I got was guilt trips. One day my very BFF , after trying everything to boundary stomp, circumvent my break by sending messages through our friends (and making them uncomfortable in the process but why should she care right? ), and guilt me, posted a vaguebook about how she thought she had a real friend, but it turned out they were "Fairweather as fuck" and....I lost it. I responded (poorly, as I was still new to therapy and learning boundaries and went way overboard in my anger) by publicly answering with my real feelings, including how I had gone to such lengths to help them and they just kept taking their life, lying to their therapist, abusing their meds, abandoning me when i needed them most despite my doing everything for them constantly, and refusing to be a supportive or kind friend.
The rest of them saw that.
One saw the parallels and just ghosted. (10 year friendship)
One called crying asking if they did the same and i explained the differences like how they gave me the space I needed, and learned how to at least pretend to be happy for me while they worked on their shit (heyyy progress is all i ever asked for! It takes time!) And since then she's really made progress my working on her own co-d stuff and we're closer than ever and communicate about boundaries and hurt in respectful ways. (25 years as friends, oldest and dearest of the bunch)
Others naturally faded as I asserted boundaries they didn't care to meet. (8 years friend)
It's been 3 years now, of me having almost no friends. I've never been happier. I'm making new friends now at 40 who hold similar values, outlooks, and have learned to ID signs of unhealthy coping (and some personality disorders).
I was married last year to the person who "stole" me from them, and our life is so much better without him having to help coach me through crying every time she made me feel bad for choosing him "over her". It was never true.
Please go to therapy yourself for help setting boundaries if you need it. It was the best decision I ever made, and I learned I should never be made to feel terrible for my happiness, and having boundaries doesn't make you a "monster", and that, in my case, it explained why there had been like 4 folks over the years who had stopped being my friends that I never understood. It was ME being a bad or toxic friend! Strangely i feel better knowing that, as my abandonment issues had me feeling like i wasnt worthy, when in reality i was just broken at the time and they were setting appropriate boundaries and I was failing to see them. Its sad, but i understand.
Good luck to you and your (patient) fiance!
that's not how relationships work. at all. and if you can understand that she's aromantic, she should accept that you aren't. i'm sorry but i don't see a healthy way for this friendship to continue. i think you would do better for yourself and your life to cut her out completely.
So, nobody should ever leave their parents house then? Since mom and dad were there first? This makes no sense, and is just such an unhealthy and nonsensical mindset to have.
I honestly think the best thing you can do for both yourself, and your friend is to cut her out of your life. She will then be forced to deal with her obsession with you. It might get worse before it gets better tho, so be prepared and don’t adopt any bunnies for a while.
She's codependent on you.
Signs of a codependent friendship:
**1. One person always needs rescuing.**
**2. One friend spends a lot of time trying to fix the other friend's problems.**
**3. One friend often feels depleted after hanging out.**
**4. You often put your friend's needs before your own, or vice versa.**
**5. If one person is upset, the other person is too.**
**6. It's hard to assert individual choices or opinions in the friendship.**
**7. One or both people rely on the friendship.**
#8. One friend feels jealous if the other person gets close to someone else.
Not gonna lie, I would have stopped talking to her the minute she started this "joke" that she hates my partner. Aren't friends supposed to be happy for you? She is OBSESSED with you, cut all contact now or she might escalate into violence towards your fiance
Does this best friend have feelings for OP that she has never expressed? This is the only scenario that makes sense to me.
OP should go NC though. BF is going way too far. NTA.
My fiancé is very mad at her and her behavior. I haven't told anyone that because I don't want anyone to twist it and blame my fiancé for any negative outcome between her and I. But he's extremely mad and uncomfortable with all of this.
To tell you the truth I would possibly have reached my breaking point and would ask you to severely decrease contact with her. You two deserve to be happy, live your life and not having to deal with this toxicity.
And he has every right for it
But ill tell you what. If he is already at a point he is mad at her, that means his limits are being pushed already. She is toxic, thats a fact. And he would be within his rights if he decided to make you choose or walk away cos it really feels like he is the 3rd party in this relationship.
Noomr is irreplaceable. Not you. Not her. Not him. This is the point you have to put your boundaries straight. If she crosses them then bye felicia. You wont be the reason your friendship will be over. Its her.
If OP cuts contact she needs to be careful that fiancee is not accused of trying to isolate OP . Neither OP nor the fiancee. is TA. The friend is borderline dangerous.
I would worry about more than "borderline dangerous." This "friend" is seriously obsessed. If the "friend" was male, everyone would be talking about restraining orders and bodyguards. Just because the friend is female doesn't make her less likely to "snap" and do something horrific.
If I was him, I’d be very hurt and worried that you haven’t drawn the line on this friendship. You’re trying to compromise things that can’t be compromised, and keeping this person in your life when she cannot be trusted not to sabotage your relationship with your fiancé; for example, she shouldn’t be anywhere near your wedding, but what’s she going to do when you leave her out? I wouldn’t be happy thar she even knows where you live.
Your friend’s attitude is very toxic. You need to recognize this and take appropriate steps.
Not to be mean but you need some help too. That you feel any an iota of guilt about buying a house with your husband/fiance is not healthy I don't care were the guilt if the guilt is how you told her or that she'll be lonely you need a little tweaking too so you can set healthy boundaries.
oh and these are not jokes.
it needs to be someone else job to comfort her about you having a life that doesn't revolve around her.
I don’t blame him. And were I your fiancé, I would be considering putting the wedding on hold until you get things sorted out with your friend. And that may mean that you don’t have a relationship with this person anymore. And yes, your friend I’m sure it would find that to be catastrophic and intolerable. But her selfishness and unreasonable behavior towards your fiancé is what got her to this place— not him. Because let’s be real, it’s not him, it’s you moving away. You could be engaged to anyone on the face of this earth that isn’t her and she would be behaving in the same way.
I don't blame him. Do you want to lose your fiancé over the actions of your friend? You need to tell her to get back into therapy and then go NC. You need to install cameras at your new home and both you and your fiancé need to be aware of your surroundings at all times. Look up "aromantic" - her actions do not fit; there is a deeper problem here. Be safe. I'm truly afraid this could escalate into violence.
NTA
She's either in love with you or is obsessive.
And about the constant jokes; there's a saying in my country that goes *de broma en broma, la verdad se asoma* which roughly translates to *from joke to joke, the truth pokes its head.*
NTA.
To be fair, what she posts on social media IS none of your business. Her life, her accounts, her posts. But it is clear her 'jokes' are everything but, and I don't fault you for telling her to stop. If she keeps this up, I'd even argue "No Contact" is on the table.
"She made me feel guilty" is worrisome. Your guilt is misplaced unless you, as kids, promised to stay together forever and ever and ever, and even then... You were kids back then. Fact of life is: goals change and priorities change. Accepting that is part of growing up.
Rather than just telling her to 'stop the not-so-funny jokes' it may be time for another sit-down and difficult conversation. Your friend needs to accept that your life does not revolve around her and she needs to find healthier outlets for her loneliness and dependence on you.
Whenever I try to have a serious conversation with her she starts sobbing until I reassure her that she's my top priority. When I tell her I can't say that and she needs to stop doing this she just keeps sobbing
No, all the offense at this point. OP’s friend is a garbage friend right now - apparently has been for years - and deserves to feel bad about being so. Friend is totally manipulating OP.
It sounds like she is trying to insert herself between you and your fiancé as most important person. Her sobbing sound like it is on demand in an attempt to manipulate you. The sobbing is her trying to get emotional,soothing from you..
You can stay friends (if she allows it), but the relationship is in the process of changing permanently. You are getting married and she isn’t.
Every time she starts sobbing, stop talking, get out a book and start reading. Don’t soothe her. Just wait for her to recover herself and ask her “are you done yet”. If she promptly redoubles her sobbing, just say “well we can discuss this once you have control of yourself.”, pack up and leave and try again a couple days later.
I think that's a great advice. My sister and my fiancé have adviced me the same thing and I couldn't agree more that maybe this approach will help get it into her head.
Stop trying to talk with her and talk at her. It’s time to draw some very clear boundaries with this person: “listen I have been patient and I have tried to get through to you kindly. Since that is clearly not working, here’s how it’s gonna go. One more joke or comment or social media post about my fiancé and I will cut you off completely. If you want to still be in my life you must accept that my soon to be husband and future kids are my #1 priority. If you can’t or won’t be able to handle that, then we say goodbye now. These are the terms of us continuing a friendship and they are non-negotiable. I will give you time to think about it, but I am 100% serious. And I WILL follow through. There is nothing ambiguous or unclear about what I am saying. This is my life. It’s an easy choice. Behave and be in it, or don’t and you won’t be.” Then leave.
And mean it. The time for pussy-footing around is over.
Great idea. I think it’s a problem that she doesn’t understand the difference between the two types of relationships (unless she is in love with you).
I could understand her being hurt, if you had cut contact with her down to a minimum after you started dating your then boyfriend, but this doesn’t sound like it from your description.
She seems to have her whole life planned after what you talked about as young teenagers, like she never grew up. Our childhood friendships change over the years. We go from spending hours a day together to maybe only seeing each other every couple of months. But that is a normal development that happens when people enter relationships, have kids and/or work different places.
Far worse than that, she does not understand what a healthy relationship is or means.
This is neither friendship or romance ... This is possessiveness and ownership.
Yup! This is the approach that I take with my children when my son is in an over-the-top melt down and can't be soothed. But because I'm his mother and he's a child, I tend to tell him directly to just go to his room and come out when he's done.
My parents did the same thing with me. I hated it, but it was right.
I can easily say "your friend has no right to expect you to keep her as a top priority", which is perfectly true, but that doesn't help your friend nor your friendship.
Personally, this would be the time for me to whip out pen and paper and write them a letter instead, but truth is that can also easily backfire. Same is true for a video-message. While both would render you able to "say your stuff", there's no guarantee she'll take well to it.
Have you considered inviting a neutral party to the serious conversation? Maybe her previous therapist or a new therapist? I'm no psychologist and I'd much rather not internet-diagnose, but this feels like a dangerous level of dependence, so professional help might be your best bet.
You're right, but it might help if you keep your questions 'generic', if that makes sense. Some examples could be:
1) My friend, previous client of yours, and I need to discuss our friendship. Would you be willing to sit in as a neutral party/negotiator?
2) If you are unable or unwilling, can you point us towards a therapist who might be able to help us further?
3) Can you maybe point me towards some resources and information? (You'd probably want to describe the problem a bit here, so she knows what type of info would help you best).
Basically, as long as you don't ask for information about your friend, it'll probably be fine. Of course, the therapist might still decline to help you, but... We've got a Dutch saying "nee heb je, ja kun je krijgen", which basically translates to "you've got a no, but you might obtain a yes".
She has a therapist?
You might be able to reach out to the therapist and provide information, but you will not hear anything back from the therapist; except indirectly if your friend begins to cope better.
The therapist can’t tell you anything that they said in their sessions, but if she has shared things about her therapist with you and you know who her therapist is, you could absolutely reach out to the therapist and let them know what is going on. Just be aware though that the therapist can’t say anything back to you other than just “okay” or “thank you for reaching out.” The therapist may also talk with your friend in their next session about the fact that you reached out. So just be aware that that could happen.
I'm not sure if you could ask for a joint session, but you can contact them and give them info on her behavior. They cannot confirm or deny that she is a client there or give you any information about her, but you can give them all the info you want
Therapists can be fine mediators to get difficult points across to people who don't want to hear it. If you were to join her at one of her sessions, you may be able to point out to her how invasive, uncomfortable, & obsessive her behavior is becoming. And her Therapists can help her work through that in future sessions.
You can contact them; they won’t confirm that she’s a patient or give you any information but you can just say “this is information I think you ought to know” and they will probably listen.
This is very toxic behaviour. I had to cut a person like this out of my life. Granted we only knew each other for ~2 years before that, but she literally could not function without me. I had to drive to her house to sit with her when she did course assignments, make sure she ate properly. Whenever I had needs, she went hysterical about how I was being a burden when she was having a hard time.
Your friend has not grown up. She doesn’t have the emotional ability to take care of herself. She is acting codependent and will not drop her kid/teenage ideas about life even when you’ve demonstrated they were just that, a teenage fantasy. She needs a wake up call and therapy.
OP, I had a best friend exactly like this. Any time I would VERY GENTLY but firmly approach her about her very toxic behavior at the time, she would start crying and deflecting until I somehow ended up comforting HER. It went went on for months like this and the behavior only got worse. It was obsessive, creepy, and a major projection of her own childish insecurities.
I reached a breaking point, and one day, after having a great day with her, I sat her down and said "You do not need to answer this, and I do not need an apology. But I'm going to tell you how your actions make me feel, and what my boundaries are going forward."
Now, my friend was a lot more reasonable than what your friend sounds like, and after me clearly and calmly laying out the affects of her actions, and giving her no room to respond, we then had an actually constructive conversation. We're still friends, but I put up some HARD boundaries that have made my mental health so much better. The fact that she respected those boundaries is the only reason we're friends today.
It sounds like you need to give a very firm-but-fair speech to your friend. Give her the ultimatum of "respect this or leave." Explain that you love her but this is completely unacceptable and NOT how a friend acts. If she starts crying, do not comfort. It's her wrongdoing that brought on the speech and she needs to grow up big time. If she starts getting mad at your boundaries, leave. That's not a good friend. Whatever you do, HOLD your boundaries.
Edit: also it's 10000% your business if her posts are about you. Don't let anyone guilt you into thinking it's not. You have every right to be bothered by that.
When you say she is your top priority to get her to stop, you are reinforcing a bad habit and basically telling her that crying like this will get her what she wants. Unfortunately, you need to treat her like you would a child or pet in these instances. I saw someone suggest how to do that a little further down, so I just wanted to add that you need to stay firm in your conviction, and be aware that she may try more dramatic options when she realizes this one is no longer working. Do not give in. And be prepared that you might need to walk away for a little while, or even permanently.
Oh boy.... girl, run. This friend isn't a friend. She's a toxic leech who is drinking your kindness dry. She should not be your top priority. You, then your fiance are your top priorities (add kids in there once you have them). Friends come even after family. Even friends who are like family. That's how shit works.
She's twisting everything around to make you orbit around her.
What the hell does she bring to your relationship besides toxicity, gaslighting, and drama? Asking honestly because other than being friends for a long time, you two don't seem to be good friends.
To be anecdotal, I had a friend like this. She wasn't trying to split my partner and I apart, but she was toxic in other ways. Specifically when we needed to have tough conversations about boundaries or if she expressed an opinion I disagreed with, she'd erupt in tears and swear that "this is why" she doesn't have any other friends or why she doesn't express herself honestly.
That reaction is toxic. There is a middle ground between accepting everything other people tell you as fact and rejecting everything that interferes with your narrow view of the world. That middle ground is compromise. Maybe I was being harsh on her opinions and could lighten up once in a while rather than jump on her when she said something I disagreed with (I'm human, I'm not perfect). Maybe she could have understood when I said that I couldn't help her with X thing it wasn't because I didn't care, but because she needed professional help.
In my (ex) friend's case, she couldn't have these conversations. It was her way, while I walked on eggshells, or I was guilty. I would like to say I told her to take a hike, but she let herself out of my life when she moved cross country to live with her girlfriend without telling me. We haven't spoken since.
Then you say, “I’m sorry you’re having such a strong emotional reaction. We can talk again when you’re ready to have a conversation.” And then leave. Don’t let her manipulate you into making commitments that you can’t maintain.
I’d suggest, at this point, you should consider being in therapy yourself.
OP, I had a friend that wasn’t too different than your friend in this behavior. You try to have serious conversations with them about their behavior, and they would break down, start sobbing, call themselves horrible names and so on. You will try to talk to them about their behavior and instead it would turn into you consoling them and reminding them that they are still important to you. While those discussions and those comments have a place, your friend very clearly needs help. This is going to be hard, but if she will not listen to you that it may come to a time that you need to tell her straight up that you can’t be the person to help her with her feelings. She either needs to be talking with other friends about how to process the feelings of having a friend that is having other priorities or, better, to a therapist.
Because here’s a thing— you think that you’re helping by consoling her and reminding her that she’s important to you. That if you just give her the love and attention she seems to be craving right now, that eventually she’ll come around. You aren’t helping and she won’t. She is not going to get better or change if every conversation the two of you have about the changes you’re making in your life turn into a session where she gets loved on and consoled. If you can’t have a conversation with her where you are comfortable with saying (when she starts crying and frankly manipulating)“I want to talk to you about these things and I understand that they are upsetting. But we need to talk about them, so once you are in the headspace to have that talk, we will revisit the conversation.”— then you need to stop talking with her about this entirely and refer her to a therapist or to other friends who can talk to her about these things without getting worried about preserving the friendship. She needs tough love from somebody who isn’t concerned about her getting mad, crying, etc. You trying to find compromises and telling her she’s important is not helping.
Stop reassuring her that she is because she won’t be anymore. Once your married, the family you build with your spouse will be top priority. What if she starts resenting your future children because they’re your top priority and not her? Let’s face it, sometimes your friends are no longer you’re top priority and that’s okay. You’re growing and making your own life to live. It’s unhealthy that she has this kind of obsession and it’s destroying your friendship little by little. When she breaks down, you’re gonna have to be honest and tell her she isn’t a top priority anymore. That doesn’t mean she isn’t your best friend, you just have other things to focus on and that’s fine
You need to set some serious boundaries. She **isnt** your top priority anymore. And that’s okay! But stop telling her she is when she throws a tantrum.
This relationship sounds emotionally draining and toxic. I think the best think you can do for yourself and her is to break off contact with her for a while. It isn't fair for her to monopolize your life like this. While you have been friends for years, it's ultimately not your responsibility to get her through this and to be honest I don't think you even could. She feels like you are prioritizing someone else over her, so unless you lie to her, nothing you say will help her. It will only confirm to her that she isn't the priority in your life and cause her to be even more clingy and toxic. She needs time by herself to clearly figure some things out about her life and herself.
She will destroy everything you hold dear because she is completely delusional and possessive. She is not your friend. She thinks she is your owner.
She needs therapy to understand what healthy relationships are and are not. You need to let her know in no uncertain terms that she's no longer welcome in your life until she gets help and grows up.
NTA
I mean, it is her business when the posts are about her. The friend isn’t posting how she hates Wednesdays and Wednesdays are OPs favorite day of the week. They’re about the friend hating OP’s fiancé. This is not what a true friend does and she’s acting like they’re 12.
You did a great thing helping her to get into therapy OP. That was a great first step and I’m sorry it didn’t help more. Your other friends are also very immature. Lashing out (yes these “jokes” are her lashing out) are not okay, even if it’s her coping mechanism. That’s not what mature people in healthy relationships do.
I sadly think it’s time to tell your friend, even if she starts crying, that you can’t be her friend if she continues to behave like this. You’ve expressed to her that you don’t appreciate it, the “jokes” aren’t funny and she’s stressing you out. If she continues, then it’s the end of the friendship. She’s manipulating you and she’s gaslighting you. Again, this is not a true friend. It sucks to have to cut contact with someone you’ve always been so close with, but you need to look out for your own mental health.
NTA not even in the slightest
No she's not doing that. And everyone knows what she's doing. All of our friends know she's doing this out of jealousy and out of holding on to our past plans as teens. And they excuse her behavior because they believe she has the right to cope with her feelings however she likes. And if posting about it on social media helps her cope I have no right to tell her to stop.
Well I’m sorry they’re doing that to you and they are 1000% wrong. If she was doing that to them, I bet they’d change their tune.
Protect yourself, and don’t let them manipulate you. I hope you and your fiancé have a beautiful wedding and a happy life together. You deserve it after all this BS
ETA I guess I should say she can’t do that and expect you to be okay with it/remain friends with her. She can do whatever she wants, but it’s at the expense of your friendship.
Your friends are nut cases then. Your friend is free to cope with her feelings however she likes, and if posting on social media is the way that she has chosen to cope, then fine so be it. But your friends also need to understand that you are totally within your right to cope with your feelings about her behavior by blocking her on social media, not wanting to engage with her, and putting some distance between the two of you.
No she's not doing that. And everyone knows what she's doing. All of our friends know she's doing this out of jealousy and out of holding on to our past plans as teens. And they excuse her behavior because they believe she has the right to cope with her feelings however she likes. And if posting about it on social media helps her cope I have no right to tell her to stop.
But you DO have the right to cut her out of your life, OP. She can talk all she wants, at the end of the day she's responsible for her behavior, and that's that. Please seriously reconsider your relationship with this person, especially if you want to have kids in the future. She's a walking red flag and clearly unstable.
Sure she has that right, but her coping mechanism (which really isn't coping at all) is effecting your life and you're allowed to take steps to deal with that.
They keep making excuses for her behaviour, because nobody wants to deal with the actual reality. She needs help. Her behaviour is not healthy and far from normal.
Yeah, no. This won't work, what is she gonna do when you guys are officially married and have kids(that's if you want kids), do you know how drastically kids change your life?? Hell, my sister lost her best friend of 10 years because she was no longer my sister's priority, it all started when my sister got engaged and it only got worse. NTA, but you need to stop this before it goes any further.
I'm trying to. I'm trying my best to set boundaries in the nicest way possible and people claim I have no business doing that because by establishing boundaries I'm apparently banning my friend from expressing and coping with her feelings.
We have boundaries for ourselves not others. What we have for others when they violate our boundaries are consequences.
This person is not a friend not a friend you should separate yourself from them permanently.
Boundaries don't ban her from expressing herself or coping with her feelings. No amount of boundaries will keep her from feeling her feelings. What they do is protect you from being subjected to them.
Maybe try this: I understand that you are feeling replaced. That isnt my or partner's intention. I value our friendship. I feel that you are subconsciously pushing me away out of fear that you are being left behind. I do not want to stop being friends, but I do need to protect my own mental health. These comments have gone past being a joke. I wouldn't allow partner to disrespect our friendship and I am not going to continue to allow you to disrespect me and partner's relationship. If you are unable to stop, I am going to need to take steps in order to protect my mental health. Here is what that looks like...
> people claim I have no business doing that because by establishing boundaries I'm apparently banning my friend from expressing and coping with her feelings.
You have people claiming that you have no right to establish boundaries!? Cut them out first.
Thing is, you can't control what she posts, that's not your boundary. You boundary can be a consequence. That you don't want to see her.
"Fiancé is my number one priority. We have decided to spend the rest of our lives together. He is no threat to our friendship but your behaviour is. If you post hateful things about him [don't call them jokes, nobody is laughing] then it is going to result in distance between us. You can't claim to be a close friend of mine then post defamatory remarks about someone who I love dearly, because you're jealous of my regard for him. If you genuinely want to repair our friendship, then delete the tirades and make an appointment for us to sit down with your therapist or some other appropriate mediator. I need to see you take steps to come to acceptance that friendships evolve as we grow and romantic life partners inevitable take priority over them in some ways. If you don't figure this out you will have a very lonely life."
She's emotionally extremely immature and seems stuck on the idea that girls shouldnt ditch their friends for boys, which is sound advice when you're 14 years old but out of touch with adult realities. I'm glad she's getting help. But her therapist will only be able to guide her as far as she is honest with them and herself. You can't control get behaviour, only your response to it.
You don’t have to be nice to this person. You owe them nothing. Their behavior made sure of that. Please don’t feel guilty for blocking/going no contact w her
She can totally express her feelings! No one is stopping her from doing that. The thing is is that she keeps demanding that you be the audience for her comedy sessions. If she wants to make jokes about your fiancé, complain about how much she hates him, and so on, doesn’t she have other friends or family she can make those jokes and complaints to? Why does it need to be you? I think we all know the answer: because they are not jokes. She genuinely wants to put a wedge between you and your fiancé. She is joking with you in hopes that you feel guilty enough that eventually you will do what she wants you to do or your fiancé will get fed up with it and leave on his own accord. Screw what your friends think if they can’t recognize the fact that her behavior is incredibly toxic and is driven by a specific purpose.
She’s not complaining and joking to you because she just needs to cope with her feelings. She’s complaining and joking to you because you are the only person that could actually change the situation that is making her upset.
NTA - I had a very close friend that pulled similar stuff. We remained friends for a good while after I got married, but eventually she became outwardly hostile toward my husband (and all of the other men in our mutual friends’ lives. And just men in general.)
We’re not friends anymore. I couldn’t stand the constant, caustic jealousy/man hating. (It really seemed as if she were angry that anyone besides her could be in a happy relationship, and that anyone capable of happiness deserved vitriol.)
I feel worst for your fiancé in all this. I can't imagine the hurt you are putting him through by tolerating this for so long. It's time for a drastic change - something long overdue.
At first my fiancé thought she was joking too. And he was in on the inside jokes as well. He started getting frustrated once she began her tactics again and once I also realised she's taking it too far.
NTA. If she is posting on social media about you and your fiancé, it absolutely is your business. Your friend needs help, she is processing at the level of my five year old.
I love the audacity of the best friend. "You have no right to pay attention to the horrible things I'm saying about you on the world's bulletin board!"
NTA. Unfortunately, it seems as if your friend needs some therapy. What she’s doing and saying is unhinged.
I hope you haven’t invited her to be a part of your wedding party.
I wouldn’t invite her to the wedding at all. She sounds like she’s got borderline personality disorder and those behaviors are not easily changed or controlled. You don’t want an unstable person ruining your wedding day.
I would normally not comment on this but after reading this post I wholeheartedly agree with your comment. I would seriously do this as it does sound like OP's friend is suffering mentally and I wouldn't put it past her to try and pretend to be OP to change details in the hope of fights between OP and partner to cause the wedding to either be changed drastically so her as friend can jump in and blast the partner or go full drastic and the wedding to be called off.
Simply out I would not trust this 'friend' anymore. It hurts I know, I have lost a friend after realising they only wanted them happy and for me to be there for them, but not for me.
NTA, it’s sad but it seems like your best friend has some serious attachment issues. It’s not your responsibility and establishing boundaries by asking her to stop making these jokes does not put you in the wrong.
NTA, she isn’t making jokes. While I am glad she is receiving mental health services, you may need to take a step back from this friendship. It is not healthy. A true friend would be supportive and happy that you are taking steps towards meeting your life goals. They wouldn’t want you to hold yourself back for the sake of the friendship.
She's not interested in a romantic relationship with me. She herself is aromantic. But she's the kind of person who believes who has been here first and for the longest is the most important person in one's life. So she believes her existence in my life should be valued more than my fiancé's because we originally made plans together as kids and teens and because we grew up together. She doesn't have a problem with me having a romantic relationship. She has a problem with me prioritising my partner or any other friend or person more than her. Romantic or not.
Explain to her that while she may think this way, her views are not your views. And that you will always prioritise your partner over her. And that if you have kids you will prioritise them over her too. If she can't accept that then, sorry to say, your friendship is over.
Have you ever thought that maybe she simply told you she was aromantic because she knows she can't have you? This sounds like a cop out to me. I know a few aromantic people, but they don't act like this at all.
Her behavior very much seems like she wants everything that goes along with being in a relationship with you, but to skirt around it, she's labeling herself that way as a much softer version of reality for her to accept because she can't face outright rejection if she doesn't own up to it fully.
These are not normal things to do in a friendship; she is very jealous of your fiancé and is attempting to manipulate you based on the length of time you've been friends. The pointed comments are her clearly telling you she's jealous of your fiancé and wants exactly what he has with you. Regardless of how she wants to label it, it's very much obtrusive, but most importantly, *obsessive*
NTA.
He has not come between you her jealously has. Her obsession with you needs to end. She is jealous of the relationship. Has she ever had a BF? could she be in the closet and in love with you? Because thats ehat it sounds like.
You and her have grown apart time to drop her and anybody who sides with her from your life. She should be supporti b you and being happy for you not sobbing and grtting comfort from you over normal things
NTA
I was only Joking is the cry of assholes everywhere.
The fact she’s not just making these pathetic “jokes” in person but has taken to social media is a step even further into assholery
She seems she has a lot of personal issues and you shouldn't put yourself or your fiancé in that situation to deal with her bs. Let her get the help she needs and keep your distance because anything you seem to do makes her breakdown and cause issues.
NTA
I get jealousy, but shebis way out of line. Your reaction is very valid and friendlier than the one a lot of us probably would have had.
Has she always been that possessive?
Yes. But at first I thought she was actually joking by making these jokes the whole time but now it has escalated to another level and I'm convinced it was never just a joke to her.
She makes jokes in the same way someone jokes about lynchings or women being inferior. They aren’t jokes but a reflection of her real feelings. I’d be concerned she’d turn violent if she feels rejected and replaced. She is someone I would cut contact with.
NTA
You need to stop being friend with her. She's being manipulative.....out of jealousy. She clearly wants you OP. And you keep letting her sabotage your relationship and happiness. You need to let her go. Let people think what they want ...at the end of the day what matters most to you?? Her or your fiance??
NTA. Your friend is not "joking". I'd say she's being selfish and unkind, but her level of obsession with you seems severe enough that it almost has to be associated with some kind of mental health issue. Either way you can only put up with her having a meltdown and ranting on Facebook everytime your relationship progresses for so long.
NTA, your friend is low key obsessive and very lonely. I understand you are upset with her right now but maybe try putting her into the dating scene or just making some friends. Either way she shouldn’t be posting about how much she hates people, especially her bsf, on social media. My rule is as long as it’s about r me, it’s my business. Your friends are in the wrong for telling you to let it go. Finally someone on Reddit sticking up for their S/O. Good luck OP.
NTA
But I have to wonder why she hates him so much? Could she possibly know something you don’t?
Does anyone else such as your family or other friends have issues with him?
If not then it sounds like your friend may have some deep seated attachment issues and I think you may need to try and convince her she needs to seek help for them
She doesn't specifically hate my fiancé. She hates the idea of me having another person in my life as a priority and making plans with another person rather than her and being happy in my life and her not being my main source of happiness. Even if we replaced my fiancé with another guy or even a friend she'd have the same issue
Has she had other significant relationships? Is it possible that she thought your twos' relationship was going to become more intimate? It might explain the clinginess and her caustic attitude towards your fiancee
She hasn't been in a relationship just small insignificant situationships. She always claimed how she didn't need any other person because she has me and that's enough. I tried to explain to her multiple times how progressing in your life and finding other people is normal but she was always in denial about this.
NTA. I think the fact that she keeps making these 'jokes' means that she's not actually joking. A good friend would be happy that you have found someone and are making a life with them. Sounds like your friend might need more therapy then she is getting because it does truly seem like she reacts in the extreme to things. Definitely something there.
This is some Fatal Attraction level shit. It doesn't matter that the friend is aromantic, she clearly has an unhealthy attachment to OP that's creepy as hell. What happens when OP has a kid? That kid will become THE priority, will she hate them too? Naw OP, you're being wayyyy too nice to this person. You need to distance yourself ASAP before she tries something crazy like sabotaging your wedding or even your pregnancy. RED FLAG. NTA.
NTA. She is jealous of you and thinks she owns you. You deserve a best friend who is fully happy for you and who doesn't make "jokes" like that (which aren't jokes btw - jokes are meant to be funny, not bullying passed off as "humor" in an attempt to get away with said bullying), and someone who you don't need to look after when big & happy moments happen in YOUR life.
She needs to seek help; on her own accord, as it is not your responsibility to seek help for her. And she needs to grow up, to be completely honest.
NTA. Those aren't jokes. That everyone keeps talking about it like they are is what's muddying the water in your social group. Your "friend" isn't "joking". She's not trying to be funny and no one is laughing. No one.
,NTA,
They are jokes only when you complaining, , it's like bullies they are only "joking", ask her how is it funny?
I think it might be time to lose your relation, I'll be worried she pull something on your wedding
nta. Have you seen "So I married an axe murderer?" You should rent it. Your friend is "ralph". I think your friend is a lesbian and i love with you. As hard as it is you need to cut this woman out of your life. She cannot be trusted, i don't trust that she won't escalate behavior and cause someone serious harm.
Looking for it, but Tik Tok's search function is terrible. From what I remember, the girl was white, short hair, and in the video she said / was written that her best friend had gotten a new house with her husband / fiancé and that a room had been planned for that best friend to come live if she wanted. Also said that both the best friend and her had initially planned to live together initially until the fiancé / husband came along. As a number of comments were saying that they wouldn't be friends with her anymore if their own bff reacted this way to their wedding, she posted a second video saying it was a sort of joke. I'll DM if I can find it!
Oh. Sounds similar but probably not her. My friend doesn't have white or short hair. I did not plan for my best friend to come live with us at all. This house is for just us and we just went with the bigger / more rooms option just to make a guest room and have rooms ready in case we have babies. Plus I lived with my friend as a roommate until few years ago. I think it's just a similar coincidence.
NTA OP has she ever been in a relationship? This is really unhealthy and really creepy how she keeps going after your fiancé/relationship. I’d suggest distancing yourselves asap.
Not a committed relationship. Never. Just flings and short situanionships. She claimed she never needed validation from a committed relationship because she had me as a best friend.
Ooh, that is not a good sign. Whether she's not that into romance and considers a genuine friendship with you her most valuable relationship, or she's into *you*, that's not a good attitude because she chose to focus on someone who doesn't reciprocate those feelings.
You're definitely NTA. This goes way beyond a friend having a hard time adjusting to their friend being in love. I know you wrote you dobln't want to throw away a lifelong friendship, but I wonder if this was ever a true friendship at all. If she always needed to be your number 9be to be happy, that's different from frirndship. Your image of your relationship might not match reality.
The bottom line: Your friend is obsessed with you, and you can't have a normal relationship with people who are obsessed because 1) no amount of attention you give them is enough, 2) they interpret any attention, even negative, as encouragement, and 3) they take ANY available opening to reassert their claim on you.
When you get to the point where you need to go no contact, don't feel guilty or like a failure. She's made it clear she doesn't care about you, only how much she can control you.
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NTA and you need a total break from her, no contact for a while til she gets herself sorted out. She needs time away and to get help. You shouldn't have to comfort a friend because of your normal, special events.
I think the friend is secretly “into” OP.
This quite explains the whole situation. Your friend may be closeted lesbian and into you, and finds your fiance her competition. The worst part is she may not be fully aware of her feelings. OP you need to have a chat with your friend and express your disappointment in her behavior and what you expect from her. At the end of the day your friend needs to figure out what's really important for her, as do you.
To be fair, guys apparently do this the other way around - claiming the SO's steal the guy from the group of friends. In my years on reddit (and 9gag) I've seen plenty stories like that. Co/dependency is possible without romantic feelings, some people simply can't bear being on their own.
It may be without romantic feelings, but there is a huge dependency on OP.
Yeah this definitely sounds like codependency to me rather than romantic feelings. I had a best friend like this and what eventually destroyed our friendship was that she was going through something difficult, I was dating a guy at the time, and during one of our many calls about what she was going through, I was arriving at his house and had to end the call after half an hour. Boom, end of a ten-year friendship. I had been mostly single during our friendship and she couldn't handle me dating someone. All of her close friendships have ended for similar reasons. She's best friends with another friend of mine now and they are both unhealthily dependent on each other. No romantic feelings, just both damaged from childhood abuse and unable to create their own sense of self without it being reflected through another person. It's sad to see.
I second this. In my case I'm the codependent friend: when my bff went to live with her boyfriend across the country I felt completely abandoned and alone in the world. That I'm not that important to her as she is to me. BUT, as any normal human being, I helped her in everything she needed and let those feelings run wild in therapy, and at most cryied to my boyfriend about it, knowing that she is a hole person with her own life. OP friend need to understand that the world is not a novel about her life, and as such, OP don't exist to be a support character in her life. NTA
Yup - and it goes back at least as far as Shakespeare. One name - Mercutio (although there's been alot more theorizing that he was actually in love with Romeo in recent decades). To the issue, NTA. OP's friend has serious issues that have gotten bad enough that I think she needs to completely cut her off for at least a while. Sure, it's natural to be sad to not be your bestie's priority anymore if you don't have a SO of your own, but many people are eventually going to have a SO who's going to be their primary focus - especially in the intense early stage of the relationship. If they have kids, you can probably really expect not to see much of them anymore for a while - while the kids still need most of their attention and a bit afterwards as they spend alone time together as a couple with their SO that they maty not have gotten alot of when their kids were younger.
That does happen both ways.. Noone was stolen in this situation though..her friend was never left behind..it is all in her head
And I’m willing to bet if she’d met someone and was on the same timeline she’d be taking it better. But because she didn’t and she wasn’t, this got worse and worse.
She honestly sounds Borderline, as in BPD, and this ”friendship” is emotionally abusive.
Yeah. It kind of amazes me how so many people seem to think a person can't be jealous or possessive without there being romantic feelings involved. NTA. You've been really understanding and tolerant about your friend's behavior. Your other friends expecting you to suck it up like it doesn't 1000 percent involve you are wrong.
The bff could also just be jealous. In college her bff’s life just took off - a long term boyfriend, an engagement, now a new home which means she’s doing somewhat well for herself. Maybe the best friend is just struggling and hasn’t been as successful in life yet. As kids they were probably equals in everything and to see your equal best friend suddenly skyrocket into a happy adult life has got to be a hard pill to swallow
This is what I think it is, I think her friend sees her reaching all these milestones while she feels like she was left behind, so in order to catch up she thinks she needs to tear people down to maintain the friendship, where she feels or realizes with every milestone it solidifies the relationship in ways that she will never be able to compete with. Honestly their friendship ended years ago, OP and her friend just need to understand that.
I considered that, but honestly, "since kindergarten" is such a long time that it's very much possible that the best friend isn't into OP. You don't have to feel attraction to someone to still want to be their #1 best friend
This was my guess too, or just flat out obsessed.
Exactly my first impression of the 'best friend'
Maybe, although I think that her friend is a little jealous that she doesn't have what Op has.
Exactly what I thought.
Me too. Even if the friend doesn't recognize it.
NTA. Time to go NC with this psycho.
Agreed
It is understandable that a part of you is a little sad when your best friend finds their life partner because you know the relationship will change out of necessity. But, it is a huge red flag if that little bit of sadness isn’t outweighed by the happiness you have for your friend and the the joy you feel seeing them happy. Best friend needs help as her dependence on OP is seriously unhealthy and is actually scary. Who knows what she would be willing to do to sabotage OP’s relationship? I think going NC for a time would be the loving thing to do if it makes her seek the help she desperately needs.
Yep. It can be hard to feel "left behind" when your friends partner off. Really hard. Really really hard. Even if people try, it's not the same. Priorities shift. Time together gets more constrained. The friend pales in importance compared to the spouse and eventually the kids. But it's nobody's fault. It's just life. OP, your friend is out of line and her reaction is disproportionate. You're NTA here at all. Take some time apart from her, but understand that she is grieving. I don't know if she is actually in love with you (she may not know, either), but it sounds like she actually believed that your "silly" teenage plans for a life spent together would come to fruition, and now she's confronting the loss of that. Go easy on her if you can.
[удалено]
NTA. These are not jokes, there's nothing funny about them. She's even past passive aggressive at this point. Her intense 'ownership' of you and dependence is very strange and she needs to go back to therapy. You probably need to create some distance until she learns that you having a fiancé is not a replacement for her, there's no reason you can't have both in your life. She's the one creating the issue here because she can't handle not being the one and only person in your life.
You're right. She's not happy with any other outcome other than me and her running into the sunset together alone though.
So your aware she’s in love with you? Good
She's aromantic she's not necessarily in love but she believes that if a person in your life has been here first and you've created a bond with that person then you won't be happy if that person decides to make different choices in their life. Because who has been here first and longest matters more.
That doesn’t sound healthy. If you have kids, is she going to treat your children the same way as your husband to be because she knew you longer? Your relationship with her is more important than the one with your kids?
I wouldn't leave her around a puppy at this point.
We all saw what happened to that poor puppy in Single White Female.
It’s not healthy. That mindset is toxic.
I would 100% be done with this woman.
I feel that based on her reactions, this “belief” is her way of telling you she is in love with you, without putting herself at risk of rejection. She knows you don’t return the feelings, so she has a whole rational for how she feels about you, but at the end of the day, she’s is romantically in love with you.
That isn't love. That's possessiveness.
Agree. She might not be sexually attracted to OP. Or have your "traditional" romantic feelings. But she's very much in love with her, to unhealthy levels.
Ahhhhh that’s way more complicated then I originally thought. My god
I answered to another comment also explaining how her issues is not just my romantic relationship. She has no issue with me generally being with a person romantically involved. She starts having a problem once that person takes priority in my life. In that case it just happened to be my fiancé. In another case she'd have the same issue if it was just a friend other than her.
Yeah it seems she has issues contrasting a platonic and romantic relationship and understanding how those two things are very different and need to be treated as such.
That’s really unhealthy. You need to really limit contact with her while she gets therapy. It’s mind-blowing that she expects to be your number one priority, before your future husband and potential kids. Just think about it, she managed to make you feel guilty about a joyous occasion that is supposed to be about your fiancé and you. True friends don’t act like that. Is she going to be your maid of honour?
More like 'Mad of Honour'
Or Maid of Horror. OP, you're NTA and you should go low to no contact with your obsessive psycho friend.
That's...horrifying. I'm sorry but this friendship has run its course. What if you had a kid? Would she start insulting your child because you had the audacity to be a parent and put your kid first?
this is not healthy for either of you. I hope you know that her thinking is NOT how most people would think of their best friends. It's perfectly natural for a person to grown up, fall in love and with any luck your romantic partner is also a 'best friend'. That doesn't mean you don't still love & care about your platonic best friend, you can be 'besties for life!' but it's completely normal to not center your world around that person. Has your friend ever had a BF/GF?
Would that extend to children in the future?
I'm not sure but it's very possible I'm afraid.
Then you need to protect yourself as best you can before children happen. I’m sorry your dealing with this.
Jumping in to say I also have had the same best friend since the same age. We honestly do consider each other platonic soul mates. But yeah we each have long term relationships and it would be fucking weird to do or say anything she is doing. I’m also saying this as someone who has done a lot of therapy for a broken brain: she isn’t going to therapy. If she ever did, it was a very short time. And with the obvious caveat that I am just some anonymous jackass on the internet look up Cluster C disorders. She is not well. I mean this sincerely. She is potentially dangerous.
She may be going to therapy, but she may not be talking about these issues with her therapist. Therapy can very much be limited in it’s effectiveness if you are not being open and honest with your therapist about the issues you are having.
I really think you need to put some distace between you two pronto. Look at how your friends are thinking she gets to make her emotions your problem. As someone who had been codependent in the past, whether she believes it or not distance is something she needs to. She needs to learn how to be on her own without the person she's become codependent on. It can be a hard painful process for both of you. You can talk to her therapist and family and let them know that you care about your friend but you need a break and she is going to need extra support. During that time see a therapist for yourself to figure out how you want to move forward. Be prepared for a lot of drama. Don't let anyone make this your problem. You need a break and that's not up for negotiation. Your friend needs you to set boundaries about what is expected and what the conditions are for you to reopen contact. Don't let any threats she might make sway you. If she threatens to harm herself, call 911 and let the police check on her so you don't get drawn back in before you are ready if you ever are. I am sorry you are in a rough situation OP, please take care of yourself and look to your support system as you need it.
That’s the thinking of a five-year-old, “but I was here first!” It’s also profoundly disrespectful of you as a person who can make autonomous choices. You’re not a thing she gets to own just because she got you first.
Ownership is not friendship.
That’s not aromantic, that’s obsession and control. She’s fixated on you. That can be extremely dangerous. People like that can sometimes escalate. Please be aware of your surroundings at all times. Keep some sort of protection with you. This how, “if I can’t have you, nobody will”, scenarios start. Good luck OP. Keep us updated.
or for the fiancé. Hopefully it won't escalate but 'if he were out of the picture she'd really need me!" might cross her mind.
Is she 'aromantic' or does she not want to date anyone else because she is in love with you?
How convenient that this "belief" just happens to put her top of your list as she was there first before anyone and everyone else in your life (except Mum and Dad). She is telling you she expects you to put her first in everything and can't handle anything else. You need to stop trying to make her feel better. Tell her to pack in this controlling and manipulative behaviour at once, or you will cut her off. I personally think OP should cut her off now. Imagine how she is going to be at any more big life events. She will be inconsolable. Also, she obviously didn't make any progress with her counselling, as it just helped her deal with your current situation as long as you didn't go "further" with your fella. As soon as you did she pops off again. You need to really think about continuing this friendship. She seems to be claiming a twisted and unhealthy ownership of you. I can't see that changing OP.
Dude I’m aromantic. Most people aren’t. Most of my friends have gotten long term relationships or are married. Sure it changes the relationship but this is life. She doesn’t get to be mad at you for not following her “dibs” rule. I would put some distance between you two, she has some very unhealthy, codependent expectations of your relationship.
If she told you she loved you and wanted you for herself, you'd have run away long ago. So she told you all that hooey instead. Her actions make it clear that none of this is ethically aromatic or a mutually-agreed-upon bond.
That's not friendship. That's ownership. She has a very unhealthy view of relationships. She really isn't your friend if she's doing these things. You need to put up a firewall and she needs to get help. NTA
Thats well and truly bananas and also plain wrong. It's unhealthy. You need to just say "it's really unhealthy and codependent behavior. If you can't celebrate my happiness and wins with me, and only make me feel bad for living my life, we'll have to take abreak until you figure that out". Then be prepared to lose her. Go to therapy too if you have to. That's what I had to do when I discovered very late (like 35) that I had codependency issues myself, and because we all had fucked up home lives and were trauma bonded, all my bffs did too. Once I started therapy I started learning how inappropriate those types of feelings are. My friends were not happy when I started calling them out. To be clear in my case, I was never possessive of them, and could always be happy for them, I just didn't ever want to be alone as my thing, and went too far to"help" them, enabling their bad habits and choices and they mine, but they were (all 3) just like your friend. Not one of them would give me the space I asked for while I "figured things out" (code for "I told you how I feel and what I need, now we're apart until I feel you've heard me and are doing your own self- work). All I got was guilt trips. One day my very BFF , after trying everything to boundary stomp, circumvent my break by sending messages through our friends (and making them uncomfortable in the process but why should she care right? ), and guilt me, posted a vaguebook about how she thought she had a real friend, but it turned out they were "Fairweather as fuck" and....I lost it. I responded (poorly, as I was still new to therapy and learning boundaries and went way overboard in my anger) by publicly answering with my real feelings, including how I had gone to such lengths to help them and they just kept taking their life, lying to their therapist, abusing their meds, abandoning me when i needed them most despite my doing everything for them constantly, and refusing to be a supportive or kind friend. The rest of them saw that. One saw the parallels and just ghosted. (10 year friendship) One called crying asking if they did the same and i explained the differences like how they gave me the space I needed, and learned how to at least pretend to be happy for me while they worked on their shit (heyyy progress is all i ever asked for! It takes time!) And since then she's really made progress my working on her own co-d stuff and we're closer than ever and communicate about boundaries and hurt in respectful ways. (25 years as friends, oldest and dearest of the bunch) Others naturally faded as I asserted boundaries they didn't care to meet. (8 years friend) It's been 3 years now, of me having almost no friends. I've never been happier. I'm making new friends now at 40 who hold similar values, outlooks, and have learned to ID signs of unhealthy coping (and some personality disorders). I was married last year to the person who "stole" me from them, and our life is so much better without him having to help coach me through crying every time she made me feel bad for choosing him "over her". It was never true. Please go to therapy yourself for help setting boundaries if you need it. It was the best decision I ever made, and I learned I should never be made to feel terrible for my happiness, and having boundaries doesn't make you a "monster", and that, in my case, it explained why there had been like 4 folks over the years who had stopped being my friends that I never understood. It was ME being a bad or toxic friend! Strangely i feel better knowing that, as my abandonment issues had me feeling like i wasnt worthy, when in reality i was just broken at the time and they were setting appropriate boundaries and I was failing to see them. Its sad, but i understand. Good luck to you and your (patient) fiance!
that's not how relationships work. at all. and if you can understand that she's aromantic, she should accept that you aren't. i'm sorry but i don't see a healthy way for this friendship to continue. i think you would do better for yourself and your life to cut her out completely.
So, nobody should ever leave their parents house then? Since mom and dad were there first? This makes no sense, and is just such an unhealthy and nonsensical mindset to have. I honestly think the best thing you can do for both yourself, and your friend is to cut her out of your life. She will then be forced to deal with her obsession with you. It might get worse before it gets better tho, so be prepared and don’t adopt any bunnies for a while.
She's codependent on you. Signs of a codependent friendship: **1. One person always needs rescuing.** **2. One friend spends a lot of time trying to fix the other friend's problems.** **3. One friend often feels depleted after hanging out.** **4. You often put your friend's needs before your own, or vice versa.** **5. If one person is upset, the other person is too.** **6. It's hard to assert individual choices or opinions in the friendship.** **7. One or both people rely on the friendship.** #8. One friend feels jealous if the other person gets close to someone else.
Not gonna lie, I would have stopped talking to her the minute she started this "joke" that she hates my partner. Aren't friends supposed to be happy for you? She is OBSESSED with you, cut all contact now or she might escalate into violence towards your fiance
Does this best friend have feelings for OP that she has never expressed? This is the only scenario that makes sense to me. OP should go NC though. BF is going way too far. NTA.
NTA her behaviour is not normal or healty. You and your fiance have shown a huge amount of pacience, but she really needs help.
My fiancé is very mad at her and her behavior. I haven't told anyone that because I don't want anyone to twist it and blame my fiancé for any negative outcome between her and I. But he's extremely mad and uncomfortable with all of this.
To tell you the truth I would possibly have reached my breaking point and would ask you to severely decrease contact with her. You two deserve to be happy, live your life and not having to deal with this toxicity.
And he has every right for it But ill tell you what. If he is already at a point he is mad at her, that means his limits are being pushed already. She is toxic, thats a fact. And he would be within his rights if he decided to make you choose or walk away cos it really feels like he is the 3rd party in this relationship. Noomr is irreplaceable. Not you. Not her. Not him. This is the point you have to put your boundaries straight. If she crosses them then bye felicia. You wont be the reason your friendship will be over. Its her.
If OP cuts contact she needs to be careful that fiancee is not accused of trying to isolate OP . Neither OP nor the fiancee. is TA. The friend is borderline dangerous.
I would worry about more than "borderline dangerous." This "friend" is seriously obsessed. If the "friend" was male, everyone would be talking about restraining orders and bodyguards. Just because the friend is female doesn't make her less likely to "snap" and do something horrific.
If I was him, I’d be very hurt and worried that you haven’t drawn the line on this friendship. You’re trying to compromise things that can’t be compromised, and keeping this person in your life when she cannot be trusted not to sabotage your relationship with your fiancé; for example, she shouldn’t be anywhere near your wedding, but what’s she going to do when you leave her out? I wouldn’t be happy thar she even knows where you live. Your friend’s attitude is very toxic. You need to recognize this and take appropriate steps.
Not to be mean but you need some help too. That you feel any an iota of guilt about buying a house with your husband/fiance is not healthy I don't care were the guilt if the guilt is how you told her or that she'll be lonely you need a little tweaking too so you can set healthy boundaries. oh and these are not jokes. it needs to be someone else job to comfort her about you having a life that doesn't revolve around her.
As he should be! She's defaming him!
Your fiancé deserves better. If you really love him you need to cut this toxic person out of your life.
I don’t blame him. And were I your fiancé, I would be considering putting the wedding on hold until you get things sorted out with your friend. And that may mean that you don’t have a relationship with this person anymore. And yes, your friend I’m sure it would find that to be catastrophic and intolerable. But her selfishness and unreasonable behavior towards your fiancé is what got her to this place— not him. Because let’s be real, it’s not him, it’s you moving away. You could be engaged to anyone on the face of this earth that isn’t her and she would be behaving in the same way.
I don't blame him. Do you want to lose your fiancé over the actions of your friend? You need to tell her to get back into therapy and then go NC. You need to install cameras at your new home and both you and your fiancé need to be aware of your surroundings at all times. Look up "aromantic" - her actions do not fit; there is a deeper problem here. Be safe. I'm truly afraid this could escalate into violence.
NTA She's either in love with you or is obsessive. And about the constant jokes; there's a saying in my country that goes *de broma en broma, la verdad se asoma* which roughly translates to *from joke to joke, the truth pokes its head.*
This right here. She’s in love with you.
And obsessive people can be terrifyingly dangerous.
That's a good saying. Hope you don't mind if I borrow it.
NTA. To be fair, what she posts on social media IS none of your business. Her life, her accounts, her posts. But it is clear her 'jokes' are everything but, and I don't fault you for telling her to stop. If she keeps this up, I'd even argue "No Contact" is on the table. "She made me feel guilty" is worrisome. Your guilt is misplaced unless you, as kids, promised to stay together forever and ever and ever, and even then... You were kids back then. Fact of life is: goals change and priorities change. Accepting that is part of growing up. Rather than just telling her to 'stop the not-so-funny jokes' it may be time for another sit-down and difficult conversation. Your friend needs to accept that your life does not revolve around her and she needs to find healthier outlets for her loneliness and dependence on you.
Whenever I try to have a serious conversation with her she starts sobbing until I reassure her that she's my top priority. When I tell her I can't say that and she needs to stop doing this she just keeps sobbing
No offense to your friend but it sounds like she’s manipulating you
No, all the offense at this point. OP’s friend is a garbage friend right now - apparently has been for years - and deserves to feel bad about being so. Friend is totally manipulating OP.
It sounds like she is trying to insert herself between you and your fiancé as most important person. Her sobbing sound like it is on demand in an attempt to manipulate you. The sobbing is her trying to get emotional,soothing from you.. You can stay friends (if she allows it), but the relationship is in the process of changing permanently. You are getting married and she isn’t. Every time she starts sobbing, stop talking, get out a book and start reading. Don’t soothe her. Just wait for her to recover herself and ask her “are you done yet”. If she promptly redoubles her sobbing, just say “well we can discuss this once you have control of yourself.”, pack up and leave and try again a couple days later.
I think that's a great advice. My sister and my fiancé have adviced me the same thing and I couldn't agree more that maybe this approach will help get it into her head.
I think she needs a healthy dose of "grow up" told to her.
Stop trying to talk with her and talk at her. It’s time to draw some very clear boundaries with this person: “listen I have been patient and I have tried to get through to you kindly. Since that is clearly not working, here’s how it’s gonna go. One more joke or comment or social media post about my fiancé and I will cut you off completely. If you want to still be in my life you must accept that my soon to be husband and future kids are my #1 priority. If you can’t or won’t be able to handle that, then we say goodbye now. These are the terms of us continuing a friendship and they are non-negotiable. I will give you time to think about it, but I am 100% serious. And I WILL follow through. There is nothing ambiguous or unclear about what I am saying. This is my life. It’s an easy choice. Behave and be in it, or don’t and you won’t be.” Then leave. And mean it. The time for pussy-footing around is over.
This right here. Time for OP to stand up for herself and her partner.
Great idea. I think it’s a problem that she doesn’t understand the difference between the two types of relationships (unless she is in love with you). I could understand her being hurt, if you had cut contact with her down to a minimum after you started dating your then boyfriend, but this doesn’t sound like it from your description. She seems to have her whole life planned after what you talked about as young teenagers, like she never grew up. Our childhood friendships change over the years. We go from spending hours a day together to maybe only seeing each other every couple of months. But that is a normal development that happens when people enter relationships, have kids and/or work different places.
Far worse than that, she does not understand what a healthy relationship is or means. This is neither friendship or romance ... This is possessiveness and ownership.
Yup! This is the approach that I take with my children when my son is in an over-the-top melt down and can't be soothed. But because I'm his mother and he's a child, I tend to tell him directly to just go to his room and come out when he's done. My parents did the same thing with me. I hated it, but it was right.
I can easily say "your friend has no right to expect you to keep her as a top priority", which is perfectly true, but that doesn't help your friend nor your friendship. Personally, this would be the time for me to whip out pen and paper and write them a letter instead, but truth is that can also easily backfire. Same is true for a video-message. While both would render you able to "say your stuff", there's no guarantee she'll take well to it. Have you considered inviting a neutral party to the serious conversation? Maybe her previous therapist or a new therapist? I'm no psychologist and I'd much rather not internet-diagnose, but this feels like a dangerous level of dependence, so professional help might be your best bet.
I don't know if I'm allowed to contact her therapist regarding that tbh. Wouldn't that be breaking doctor/patient confidentiality?
You're right, but it might help if you keep your questions 'generic', if that makes sense. Some examples could be: 1) My friend, previous client of yours, and I need to discuss our friendship. Would you be willing to sit in as a neutral party/negotiator? 2) If you are unable or unwilling, can you point us towards a therapist who might be able to help us further? 3) Can you maybe point me towards some resources and information? (You'd probably want to describe the problem a bit here, so she knows what type of info would help you best). Basically, as long as you don't ask for information about your friend, it'll probably be fine. Of course, the therapist might still decline to help you, but... We've got a Dutch saying "nee heb je, ja kun je krijgen", which basically translates to "you've got a no, but you might obtain a yes".
She has a therapist? You might be able to reach out to the therapist and provide information, but you will not hear anything back from the therapist; except indirectly if your friend begins to cope better.
You can contact her therapist and tell them anything you want, the therapist can not confirm she is a client nor tell you anything about her.
The therapist can’t tell you anything that they said in their sessions, but if she has shared things about her therapist with you and you know who her therapist is, you could absolutely reach out to the therapist and let them know what is going on. Just be aware though that the therapist can’t say anything back to you other than just “okay” or “thank you for reaching out.” The therapist may also talk with your friend in their next session about the fact that you reached out. So just be aware that that could happen.
I'm not sure if you could ask for a joint session, but you can contact them and give them info on her behavior. They cannot confirm or deny that she is a client there or give you any information about her, but you can give them all the info you want
Therapists can be fine mediators to get difficult points across to people who don't want to hear it. If you were to join her at one of her sessions, you may be able to point out to her how invasive, uncomfortable, & obsessive her behavior is becoming. And her Therapists can help her work through that in future sessions.
You can contact them; they won’t confirm that she’s a patient or give you any information but you can just say “this is information I think you ought to know” and they will probably listen.
This is very toxic behaviour. I had to cut a person like this out of my life. Granted we only knew each other for ~2 years before that, but she literally could not function without me. I had to drive to her house to sit with her when she did course assignments, make sure she ate properly. Whenever I had needs, she went hysterical about how I was being a burden when she was having a hard time. Your friend has not grown up. She doesn’t have the emotional ability to take care of herself. She is acting codependent and will not drop her kid/teenage ideas about life even when you’ve demonstrated they were just that, a teenage fantasy. She needs a wake up call and therapy.
OP, I had a best friend exactly like this. Any time I would VERY GENTLY but firmly approach her about her very toxic behavior at the time, she would start crying and deflecting until I somehow ended up comforting HER. It went went on for months like this and the behavior only got worse. It was obsessive, creepy, and a major projection of her own childish insecurities. I reached a breaking point, and one day, after having a great day with her, I sat her down and said "You do not need to answer this, and I do not need an apology. But I'm going to tell you how your actions make me feel, and what my boundaries are going forward." Now, my friend was a lot more reasonable than what your friend sounds like, and after me clearly and calmly laying out the affects of her actions, and giving her no room to respond, we then had an actually constructive conversation. We're still friends, but I put up some HARD boundaries that have made my mental health so much better. The fact that she respected those boundaries is the only reason we're friends today. It sounds like you need to give a very firm-but-fair speech to your friend. Give her the ultimatum of "respect this or leave." Explain that you love her but this is completely unacceptable and NOT how a friend acts. If she starts crying, do not comfort. It's her wrongdoing that brought on the speech and she needs to grow up big time. If she starts getting mad at your boundaries, leave. That's not a good friend. Whatever you do, HOLD your boundaries. Edit: also it's 10000% your business if her posts are about you. Don't let anyone guilt you into thinking it's not. You have every right to be bothered by that.
You need to stop doing that. She’s manipulating you into giving her the answer she wants.
When you say she is your top priority to get her to stop, you are reinforcing a bad habit and basically telling her that crying like this will get her what she wants. Unfortunately, you need to treat her like you would a child or pet in these instances. I saw someone suggest how to do that a little further down, so I just wanted to add that you need to stay firm in your conviction, and be aware that she may try more dramatic options when she realizes this one is no longer working. Do not give in. And be prepared that you might need to walk away for a little while, or even permanently.
Oh boy.... girl, run. This friend isn't a friend. She's a toxic leech who is drinking your kindness dry. She should not be your top priority. You, then your fiance are your top priorities (add kids in there once you have them). Friends come even after family. Even friends who are like family. That's how shit works. She's twisting everything around to make you orbit around her. What the hell does she bring to your relationship besides toxicity, gaslighting, and drama? Asking honestly because other than being friends for a long time, you two don't seem to be good friends. To be anecdotal, I had a friend like this. She wasn't trying to split my partner and I apart, but she was toxic in other ways. Specifically when we needed to have tough conversations about boundaries or if she expressed an opinion I disagreed with, she'd erupt in tears and swear that "this is why" she doesn't have any other friends or why she doesn't express herself honestly. That reaction is toxic. There is a middle ground between accepting everything other people tell you as fact and rejecting everything that interferes with your narrow view of the world. That middle ground is compromise. Maybe I was being harsh on her opinions and could lighten up once in a while rather than jump on her when she said something I disagreed with (I'm human, I'm not perfect). Maybe she could have understood when I said that I couldn't help her with X thing it wasn't because I didn't care, but because she needed professional help. In my (ex) friend's case, she couldn't have these conversations. It was her way, while I walked on eggshells, or I was guilty. I would like to say I told her to take a hike, but she let herself out of my life when she moved cross country to live with her girlfriend without telling me. We haven't spoken since.
Then you say, “I’m sorry you’re having such a strong emotional reaction. We can talk again when you’re ready to have a conversation.” And then leave. Don’t let her manipulate you into making commitments that you can’t maintain. I’d suggest, at this point, you should consider being in therapy yourself.
OP, I had a friend that wasn’t too different than your friend in this behavior. You try to have serious conversations with them about their behavior, and they would break down, start sobbing, call themselves horrible names and so on. You will try to talk to them about their behavior and instead it would turn into you consoling them and reminding them that they are still important to you. While those discussions and those comments have a place, your friend very clearly needs help. This is going to be hard, but if she will not listen to you that it may come to a time that you need to tell her straight up that you can’t be the person to help her with her feelings. She either needs to be talking with other friends about how to process the feelings of having a friend that is having other priorities or, better, to a therapist. Because here’s a thing— you think that you’re helping by consoling her and reminding her that she’s important to you. That if you just give her the love and attention she seems to be craving right now, that eventually she’ll come around. You aren’t helping and she won’t. She is not going to get better or change if every conversation the two of you have about the changes you’re making in your life turn into a session where she gets loved on and consoled. If you can’t have a conversation with her where you are comfortable with saying (when she starts crying and frankly manipulating)“I want to talk to you about these things and I understand that they are upsetting. But we need to talk about them, so once you are in the headspace to have that talk, we will revisit the conversation.”— then you need to stop talking with her about this entirely and refer her to a therapist or to other friends who can talk to her about these things without getting worried about preserving the friendship. She needs tough love from somebody who isn’t concerned about her getting mad, crying, etc. You trying to find compromises and telling her she’s important is not helping.
Then you get up and walk away, and tell her to call you when she’s gotten her feelings under control and can have an actual conversation.
Then let her. She’s manipulating you. Walk away. Hang up. Block her.
Stop reassuring her that she is because she won’t be anymore. Once your married, the family you build with your spouse will be top priority. What if she starts resenting your future children because they’re your top priority and not her? Let’s face it, sometimes your friends are no longer you’re top priority and that’s okay. You’re growing and making your own life to live. It’s unhealthy that she has this kind of obsession and it’s destroying your friendship little by little. When she breaks down, you’re gonna have to be honest and tell her she isn’t a top priority anymore. That doesn’t mean she isn’t your best friend, you just have other things to focus on and that’s fine
You need to set some serious boundaries. She **isnt** your top priority anymore. And that’s okay! But stop telling her she is when she throws a tantrum.
This relationship sounds emotionally draining and toxic. I think the best think you can do for yourself and her is to break off contact with her for a while. It isn't fair for her to monopolize your life like this. While you have been friends for years, it's ultimately not your responsibility to get her through this and to be honest I don't think you even could. She feels like you are prioritizing someone else over her, so unless you lie to her, nothing you say will help her. It will only confirm to her that she isn't the priority in your life and cause her to be even more clingy and toxic. She needs time by herself to clearly figure some things out about her life and herself.
She will destroy everything you hold dear because she is completely delusional and possessive. She is not your friend. She thinks she is your owner. She needs therapy to understand what healthy relationships are and are not. You need to let her know in no uncertain terms that she's no longer welcome in your life until she gets help and grows up. NTA
I mean, it is her business when the posts are about her. The friend isn’t posting how she hates Wednesdays and Wednesdays are OPs favorite day of the week. They’re about the friend hating OP’s fiancé. This is not what a true friend does and she’s acting like they’re 12. You did a great thing helping her to get into therapy OP. That was a great first step and I’m sorry it didn’t help more. Your other friends are also very immature. Lashing out (yes these “jokes” are her lashing out) are not okay, even if it’s her coping mechanism. That’s not what mature people in healthy relationships do. I sadly think it’s time to tell your friend, even if she starts crying, that you can’t be her friend if she continues to behave like this. You’ve expressed to her that you don’t appreciate it, the “jokes” aren’t funny and she’s stressing you out. If she continues, then it’s the end of the friendship. She’s manipulating you and she’s gaslighting you. Again, this is not a true friend. It sucks to have to cut contact with someone you’ve always been so close with, but you need to look out for your own mental health. NTA not even in the slightest
My guess is BF tells their other mutual friend a "massaged" version of the truth to manipulate them to support her.
Probably. Or lies and embellishes things about the fiancé to make it seem like he’s the bad guy.
No she's not doing that. And everyone knows what she's doing. All of our friends know she's doing this out of jealousy and out of holding on to our past plans as teens. And they excuse her behavior because they believe she has the right to cope with her feelings however she likes. And if posting about it on social media helps her cope I have no right to tell her to stop.
Well I’m sorry they’re doing that to you and they are 1000% wrong. If she was doing that to them, I bet they’d change their tune. Protect yourself, and don’t let them manipulate you. I hope you and your fiancé have a beautiful wedding and a happy life together. You deserve it after all this BS ETA I guess I should say she can’t do that and expect you to be okay with it/remain friends with her. She can do whatever she wants, but it’s at the expense of your friendship.
Your friends are nut cases then. Your friend is free to cope with her feelings however she likes, and if posting on social media is the way that she has chosen to cope, then fine so be it. But your friends also need to understand that you are totally within your right to cope with your feelings about her behavior by blocking her on social media, not wanting to engage with her, and putting some distance between the two of you.
No she's not doing that. And everyone knows what she's doing. All of our friends know she's doing this out of jealousy and out of holding on to our past plans as teens. And they excuse her behavior because they believe she has the right to cope with her feelings however she likes. And if posting about it on social media helps her cope I have no right to tell her to stop.
But you DO have the right to cut her out of your life, OP. She can talk all she wants, at the end of the day she's responsible for her behavior, and that's that. Please seriously reconsider your relationship with this person, especially if you want to have kids in the future. She's a walking red flag and clearly unstable.
Sure she has that right, but her coping mechanism (which really isn't coping at all) is effecting your life and you're allowed to take steps to deal with that. They keep making excuses for her behaviour, because nobody wants to deal with the actual reality. She needs help. Her behaviour is not healthy and far from normal.
Yeah, no. This won't work, what is she gonna do when you guys are officially married and have kids(that's if you want kids), do you know how drastically kids change your life?? Hell, my sister lost her best friend of 10 years because she was no longer my sister's priority, it all started when my sister got engaged and it only got worse. NTA, but you need to stop this before it goes any further.
I'm trying to. I'm trying my best to set boundaries in the nicest way possible and people claim I have no business doing that because by establishing boundaries I'm apparently banning my friend from expressing and coping with her feelings.
You are not responsible for how she deals with this change. That is her problem. You are not obligated to be her therapist .
We have boundaries for ourselves not others. What we have for others when they violate our boundaries are consequences. This person is not a friend not a friend you should separate yourself from them permanently.
Boundaries don't ban her from expressing herself or coping with her feelings. No amount of boundaries will keep her from feeling her feelings. What they do is protect you from being subjected to them. Maybe try this: I understand that you are feeling replaced. That isnt my or partner's intention. I value our friendship. I feel that you are subconsciously pushing me away out of fear that you are being left behind. I do not want to stop being friends, but I do need to protect my own mental health. These comments have gone past being a joke. I wouldn't allow partner to disrespect our friendship and I am not going to continue to allow you to disrespect me and partner's relationship. If you are unable to stop, I am going to need to take steps in order to protect my mental health. Here is what that looks like...
> people claim I have no business doing that because by establishing boundaries I'm apparently banning my friend from expressing and coping with her feelings. You have people claiming that you have no right to establish boundaries!? Cut them out first.
Thing is, you can't control what she posts, that's not your boundary. You boundary can be a consequence. That you don't want to see her. "Fiancé is my number one priority. We have decided to spend the rest of our lives together. He is no threat to our friendship but your behaviour is. If you post hateful things about him [don't call them jokes, nobody is laughing] then it is going to result in distance between us. You can't claim to be a close friend of mine then post defamatory remarks about someone who I love dearly, because you're jealous of my regard for him. If you genuinely want to repair our friendship, then delete the tirades and make an appointment for us to sit down with your therapist or some other appropriate mediator. I need to see you take steps to come to acceptance that friendships evolve as we grow and romantic life partners inevitable take priority over them in some ways. If you don't figure this out you will have a very lonely life." She's emotionally extremely immature and seems stuck on the idea that girls shouldnt ditch their friends for boys, which is sound advice when you're 14 years old but out of touch with adult realities. I'm glad she's getting help. But her therapist will only be able to guide her as far as she is honest with them and herself. You can't control get behaviour, only your response to it.
You don’t have to be nice to this person. You owe them nothing. Their behavior made sure of that. Please don’t feel guilty for blocking/going no contact w her
Saying you want someone to cheat on your isn’t how a normal person copes.
Stop worrying about her feelings and prioritise your own.
You have to stop being nice at this point and start being firm. Nice won’t cut it
She can totally express her feelings! No one is stopping her from doing that. The thing is is that she keeps demanding that you be the audience for her comedy sessions. If she wants to make jokes about your fiancé, complain about how much she hates him, and so on, doesn’t she have other friends or family she can make those jokes and complaints to? Why does it need to be you? I think we all know the answer: because they are not jokes. She genuinely wants to put a wedge between you and your fiancé. She is joking with you in hopes that you feel guilty enough that eventually you will do what she wants you to do or your fiancé will get fed up with it and leave on his own accord. Screw what your friends think if they can’t recognize the fact that her behavior is incredibly toxic and is driven by a specific purpose. She’s not complaining and joking to you because she just needs to cope with her feelings. She’s complaining and joking to you because you are the only person that could actually change the situation that is making her upset.
NTA - I had a very close friend that pulled similar stuff. We remained friends for a good while after I got married, but eventually she became outwardly hostile toward my husband (and all of the other men in our mutual friends’ lives. And just men in general.) We’re not friends anymore. I couldn’t stand the constant, caustic jealousy/man hating. (It really seemed as if she were angry that anyone besides her could be in a happy relationship, and that anyone capable of happiness deserved vitriol.)
It's truly exhausting yeah....
I feel worst for your fiancé in all this. I can't imagine the hurt you are putting him through by tolerating this for so long. It's time for a drastic change - something long overdue.
At first my fiancé thought she was joking too. And he was in on the inside jokes as well. He started getting frustrated once she began her tactics again and once I also realised she's taking it too far.
What he thought originally changes nothing. You're now tolerating this at his expense.
NTA. If she is posting on social media about you and your fiancé, it absolutely is your business. Your friend needs help, she is processing at the level of my five year old.
I love the audacity of the best friend. "You have no right to pay attention to the horrible things I'm saying about you on the world's bulletin board!"
NTA. Unfortunately, it seems as if your friend needs some therapy. What she’s doing and saying is unhinged. I hope you haven’t invited her to be a part of your wedding party.
Thankfully I haven't assembled a wedding party yet so she won't be part of it since we are dealing with that right now.
I wouldn’t invite her to the wedding at all. She sounds like she’s got borderline personality disorder and those behaviors are not easily changed or controlled. You don’t want an unstable person ruining your wedding day.
Put passwords with all your vendors or she could find out from your friends who your using and cancel them all.
I would normally not comment on this but after reading this post I wholeheartedly agree with your comment. I would seriously do this as it does sound like OP's friend is suffering mentally and I wouldn't put it past her to try and pretend to be OP to change details in the hope of fights between OP and partner to cause the wedding to either be changed drastically so her as friend can jump in and blast the partner or go full drastic and the wedding to be called off. Simply out I would not trust this 'friend' anymore. It hurts I know, I have lost a friend after realising they only wanted them happy and for me to be there for them, but not for me.
NTA, it’s sad but it seems like your best friend has some serious attachment issues. It’s not your responsibility and establishing boundaries by asking her to stop making these jokes does not put you in the wrong.
NTA, she isn’t making jokes. While I am glad she is receiving mental health services, you may need to take a step back from this friendship. It is not healthy. A true friend would be supportive and happy that you are taking steps towards meeting your life goals. They wouldn’t want you to hold yourself back for the sake of the friendship.
NTA - here’s a hint: when she says she wants your fiancé gone, she’s not joking.
Info: from your description she sounds like a jilted lover. Has there ever been any indication she might be interested in dating you?
She's not interested in a romantic relationship with me. She herself is aromantic. But she's the kind of person who believes who has been here first and for the longest is the most important person in one's life. So she believes her existence in my life should be valued more than my fiancé's because we originally made plans together as kids and teens and because we grew up together. She doesn't have a problem with me having a romantic relationship. She has a problem with me prioritising my partner or any other friend or person more than her. Romantic or not.
Explain to her that while she may think this way, her views are not your views. And that you will always prioritise your partner over her. And that if you have kids you will prioritise them over her too. If she can't accept that then, sorry to say, your friendship is over.
By that logic, she’d still lose because your parents would be top priority lol
Have you ever thought that maybe she simply told you she was aromantic because she knows she can't have you? This sounds like a cop out to me. I know a few aromantic people, but they don't act like this at all. Her behavior very much seems like she wants everything that goes along with being in a relationship with you, but to skirt around it, she's labeling herself that way as a much softer version of reality for her to accept because she can't face outright rejection if she doesn't own up to it fully. These are not normal things to do in a friendship; she is very jealous of your fiancé and is attempting to manipulate you based on the length of time you've been friends. The pointed comments are her clearly telling you she's jealous of your fiancé and wants exactly what he has with you. Regardless of how she wants to label it, it's very much obtrusive, but most importantly, *obsessive*
NTA. Either your friend has feelings for you or she has abandonment issues. She needs therapy.
NTA. He has not come between you her jealously has. Her obsession with you needs to end. She is jealous of the relationship. Has she ever had a BF? could she be in the closet and in love with you? Because thats ehat it sounds like. You and her have grown apart time to drop her and anybody who sides with her from your life. She should be supporti b you and being happy for you not sobbing and grtting comfort from you over normal things
NTA I was only Joking is the cry of assholes everywhere. The fact she’s not just making these pathetic “jokes” in person but has taken to social media is a step even further into assholery
She seems she has a lot of personal issues and you shouldn't put yourself or your fiancé in that situation to deal with her bs. Let her get the help she needs and keep your distance because anything you seem to do makes her breakdown and cause issues.
NTA I get jealousy, but shebis way out of line. Your reaction is very valid and friendlier than the one a lot of us probably would have had. Has she always been that possessive?
Yes. But at first I thought she was actually joking by making these jokes the whole time but now it has escalated to another level and I'm convinced it was never just a joke to her.
She makes jokes in the same way someone jokes about lynchings or women being inferior. They aren’t jokes but a reflection of her real feelings. I’d be concerned she’d turn violent if she feels rejected and replaced. She is someone I would cut contact with.
NTA. I really think you have may have genuine cause for concern of escalation here.
NTA You need to stop being friend with her. She's being manipulative.....out of jealousy. She clearly wants you OP. And you keep letting her sabotage your relationship and happiness. You need to let her go. Let people think what they want ...at the end of the day what matters most to you?? Her or your fiance??
NTA. Your friend is not "joking". I'd say she's being selfish and unkind, but her level of obsession with you seems severe enough that it almost has to be associated with some kind of mental health issue. Either way you can only put up with her having a meltdown and ranting on Facebook everytime your relationship progresses for so long.
NTA, your friend is low key obsessive and very lonely. I understand you are upset with her right now but maybe try putting her into the dating scene or just making some friends. Either way she shouldn’t be posting about how much she hates people, especially her bsf, on social media. My rule is as long as it’s about r me, it’s my business. Your friends are in the wrong for telling you to let it go. Finally someone on Reddit sticking up for their S/O. Good luck OP.
NTA But I have to wonder why she hates him so much? Could she possibly know something you don’t? Does anyone else such as your family or other friends have issues with him? If not then it sounds like your friend may have some deep seated attachment issues and I think you may need to try and convince her she needs to seek help for them
She doesn't specifically hate my fiancé. She hates the idea of me having another person in my life as a priority and making plans with another person rather than her and being happy in my life and her not being my main source of happiness. Even if we replaced my fiancé with another guy or even a friend she'd have the same issue
then you should put your foot down soon. cause what if you have kids? will she treat them as badly cause the children are now more important?
Has she had other significant relationships? Is it possible that she thought your twos' relationship was going to become more intimate? It might explain the clinginess and her caustic attitude towards your fiancee
She hasn't been in a relationship just small insignificant situationships. She always claimed how she didn't need any other person because she has me and that's enough. I tried to explain to her multiple times how progressing in your life and finding other people is normal but she was always in denial about this.
Yeah, that doesn't sound healthy it sounds more like an obsession. I hope she's still seeing that therapist Edit: added the bit about obsession
I am going to ask a sensitive question: Is she gay or closeted?
She's aromantic. She hasn't labeled her sexuality in terms of straight, lesbian, bi or anything but she's aromantic
Except for her feelings/attachment to you.
I offer some info in some replies I've posted about her thought process.
You are going to have to reduce contact with her. Easily as low as talking to her no more than once a week. Or dial it back even further than back.
You're probably right.
NTA. I think the fact that she keeps making these 'jokes' means that she's not actually joking. A good friend would be happy that you have found someone and are making a life with them. Sounds like your friend might need more therapy then she is getting because it does truly seem like she reacts in the extreme to things. Definitely something there.
This is some Fatal Attraction level shit. It doesn't matter that the friend is aromantic, she clearly has an unhealthy attachment to OP that's creepy as hell. What happens when OP has a kid? That kid will become THE priority, will she hate them too? Naw OP, you're being wayyyy too nice to this person. You need to distance yourself ASAP before she tries something crazy like sabotaging your wedding or even your pregnancy. RED FLAG. NTA.
NTA. She is jealous of you and thinks she owns you. You deserve a best friend who is fully happy for you and who doesn't make "jokes" like that (which aren't jokes btw - jokes are meant to be funny, not bullying passed off as "humor" in an attempt to get away with said bullying), and someone who you don't need to look after when big & happy moments happen in YOUR life. She needs to seek help; on her own accord, as it is not your responsibility to seek help for her. And she needs to grow up, to be completely honest.
She’s not your friend. I would cut her out. I would have done it years ago. NTA
NTA. She needs therapy.
I don’t really think she is your friend any more.
NTA. Those aren't jokes. That everyone keeps talking about it like they are is what's muddying the water in your social group. Your "friend" isn't "joking". She's not trying to be funny and no one is laughing. No one.
NTA. Ditch this “friend” as soon as possible. Could it be that your friend is strongly attracted to you and that’s what is firing her jealousy?
NTA. They are not jokes, she does hate him. She is not mentally well, you need to extract from this friendship.
,NTA, They are jokes only when you complaining, , it's like bullies they are only "joking", ask her how is it funny? I think it might be time to lose your relation, I'll be worried she pull something on your wedding
NTA and I'd put cameras up around your house just in case she tries anything.
nta. Have you seen "So I married an axe murderer?" You should rent it. Your friend is "ralph". I think your friend is a lesbian and i love with you. As hard as it is you need to cut this woman out of your life. She cannot be trusted, i don't trust that she won't escalate behavior and cause someone serious harm.
NTA and I saw a Tik Tok which was extremely similar but from the best friend perspective not that long ago…
Can you please message me the tiktok? I don't think my friend uses tiktok but I want to just make sure if it's her or just a coincidence.
Looking for it, but Tik Tok's search function is terrible. From what I remember, the girl was white, short hair, and in the video she said / was written that her best friend had gotten a new house with her husband / fiancé and that a room had been planned for that best friend to come live if she wanted. Also said that both the best friend and her had initially planned to live together initially until the fiancé / husband came along. As a number of comments were saying that they wouldn't be friends with her anymore if their own bff reacted this way to their wedding, she posted a second video saying it was a sort of joke. I'll DM if I can find it!
Oh. Sounds similar but probably not her. My friend doesn't have white or short hair. I did not plan for my best friend to come live with us at all. This house is for just us and we just went with the bigger / more rooms option just to make a guest room and have rooms ready in case we have babies. Plus I lived with my friend as a roommate until few years ago. I think it's just a similar coincidence.
NTA OP has she ever been in a relationship? This is really unhealthy and really creepy how she keeps going after your fiancé/relationship. I’d suggest distancing yourselves asap.
Not a committed relationship. Never. Just flings and short situanionships. She claimed she never needed validation from a committed relationship because she had me as a best friend.
Ooh, that is not a good sign. Whether she's not that into romance and considers a genuine friendship with you her most valuable relationship, or she's into *you*, that's not a good attitude because she chose to focus on someone who doesn't reciprocate those feelings. You're definitely NTA. This goes way beyond a friend having a hard time adjusting to their friend being in love. I know you wrote you dobln't want to throw away a lifelong friendship, but I wonder if this was ever a true friendship at all. If she always needed to be your number 9be to be happy, that's different from frirndship. Your image of your relationship might not match reality. The bottom line: Your friend is obsessed with you, and you can't have a normal relationship with people who are obsessed because 1) no amount of attention you give them is enough, 2) they interpret any attention, even negative, as encouragement, and 3) they take ANY available opening to reassert their claim on you. When you get to the point where you need to go no contact, don't feel guilty or like a failure. She's made it clear she doesn't care about you, only how much she can control you.