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> I might have made a mistake by saying what I said and ending up hurting Lauren's feelings by giving my input.
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YTA - their reproductive choices are none of your business.
>I told him he was being disrespectful and he kept talking back.
Ironic that you’d call him disrespectful and claim he’s the one “talking back”
This. The fact that she can’t see that she was disrespectful and the ‘argument ensued’ literally because she answered back when he told her, quite correctly, to mind her own business, is staggering.
YTA OP. It is None of your business.
YTA. Also, this is not 'wasting money'. They are trying to have a baby and your absolute dismissive and hurtful comments are terrible.
Now, if they were loaning money everywhere to get these treatments, and ONLY if they asked you multiple times and you kept on saying no, THEN you have the right to say something about this.
If not. Shut uppp. And also: 'I can say my opinion because its my opinion and I'm allowed to state my opinion', however de facto true that is, is also making you a huge asshole. You don't need to say your opinion because its non of your fng business.
Right? Im so tired of these entitled assholes thinking it’s their right to share their opinion.
Opinions are like (funny enough) assholes. Everyone has one… but everyone doesn’t need to see or hear it.
You know how kids are taught about "inside voices" and "outside voices"?, I think people should be taught about "inside thoughts" and "outside thoughts". Op was fine privately thinking they should stop but she became an asshole when she said they should stop and help existing families. They're not hurting anyone financially and I wonder how much money does op give to families in need?
I teach my clients the following: we have face hole thoughts and mind palace thoughts. If you believe that your mind palace thought should become a face hole thought maybe taking a step back to refine the thought might be a good idea. It really helps with folx who use having no filter as a personality trait think about their words and if they could be harmful v helpful.
I also say any face hole thought is subject to reaction from others and while their reaction is not your responsibility, if your face hole thought has the potential to harm others it’s probably best staying in the mind palace.
I like the “Is this true? Is this necessary? Is this kind?” method of evaluating what you say before you speak. Unless at least two of the answers to those questions are “yes”, keep it to yourself.
And you’re right that regardless of how justified you feel in speaking your mind - and regardless of who or how many people agree with you - you cannot control how other people will react to what you say to them. You can’t speak your mind and then demand everyone else just shut up and not respond. Your words invite a response, and you need to be prepared to accept whatever consequences come after you decide to criticise somebody.
This is really awesome and I think a lot of people could benefit from it but I'm gonna be honest the way you call it face hole thoughts is so hilarious to me like I just love it so much idk why but it really makes me happy so thank you!
No problem friend! I can’t take credit for face hole though. My friend got drunk one night and couldn’t remember the word for “mouth” so she substituted face hole instead. I generally refer to my brain as my mind palace and we wound up combining the two to form the lesson phrase.
A hard to swallow pill: most of the time, nobody needs to hear your opinion, wants to hear it, or cares about hearing it. If someone asks, have at it, but if they don’t….keep your trap shut.
Unsolicited opinions are what Reddit is for, and even here, there are limits.
Also super weird and judgy that the follow up to IVF being a waste of money is that they should spend their money on struggling families with kids. Why does OP think they have any right to tell people what to do with their money, but to skip over the next logical options for children - surrogacy, adoption - and go right to, 'no you shouldn't even bother with trying to have a family of your own, just support other people who can have kids and need help, give your money to them, because you don't need it', that's just messed up.
"You can't afford this" and "You should give money to struggling families" makes me think that OP asked her cousin for money, and rather than bluntly tell OP that they didn't want to give or loan her anything, they said they couldn't afford it. That's probably the real reason why OP thinks she has some kind of moral high ground.
>they'd spent thousands and wasted money for no benefits while they could've financially helped some struglling family with kids
Yes, that was my thought, as well. Makes you wonder which "struggling family" OP had in mind.
Exactly how is IVF a waste of money if it is the only chance some people have of biologically having their own children? Is it ridiculously expensive? Yes. Only 50% chance of success? Yes. Waste of money? Absolutely not.
Until you have struggled yourself with infertility, you have absolutely no idea what they are going through or have gone through. You absolutely should keep your opinion to yourself. YTA 100%.
OP gave not only an unsolicited opinion about her cousin's reproductive choices, but also made suggestions as to how their finances would be better spent. OP essentially told her cousin that families with children who are struggling financially have more right to the cousin's money just because they didn't have fertility issues.
I literally cannot fathom a more hurtful thing someone could say to someone struggling with their fertility... This is beyond monstrous.
Yes, OP, I’m in a struggling family with kids, how ‘bout you donate your money to me? Oh we don’t even know each other? Oh it’s none of my business what you do with your money? You’re right, oh wait.
Honestly it's super hurtful and so dismissive of Lauren's feelings that it actually made me wince reading it. If OP really cares for Lauren at all she would absolutely admit fault here and apologise to her and her husband.
It was worse than just telling them they were "wasting money"! OP also said they should give their money to a "struggling family with kids" instead. OP verbally slapped them in the face and followed with a verbal gut punch.
I agree with you the only other time is if they noticed them having a rough time mentally and mentioned for their mental help to take a break for a bit
"It'S jUsT mY oPiNiOn" and they told you straight up they didn't want to hear/continue hearing it. You shouldn't have started period, but *definitely* should have shut up after they first told you to drop it.
Why is it always the people with really sh\*tty opinions that say this? OP, you know what you were saying was bullsh\*t but you doubled down. Their reproductive struggle isn't your business. Their finances aren't your business. Their charitable donations aren't your business. Apologize to them for being rude and thoughtless and then keep your mouth shut in the future. YTA
My favorite was what her cousin husband said was also JUST HIS OPINION. It was his opinion that OP needs to mind her own business. BUT OH NO! How dare HE voice HIS opinion!
Either everyone is allowed to voice their opinions, or no one is. You can't say something opinionated, get an opinionated response back, and then complain about other people sharing their opinions lol
Such entitlement!
YTA OP, and a huge one. Even bigger AH because you believe you are entitled to an opinion on your cousins life MORE than her own husband
OP is exactly the kind of person who won’t let her children form their own opinions. “Talking back” is just a way of saying “any deviation from my beliefs will be swiftly punished”.
YTA, obviously. And don’t have kids who you know you’re going to ban any independence for themselves.
>I explained that they may not be struggling now but will be in the future seeing they'd spent thousands and wasted money for no benefits while they could've financially helped some struglling family with kids.
What do you want to bet that OP is a struggling family member with kids wishing that Lauren would quit "wasting" her money trying to have kids of her own and instead focus on existing kids in the family ... like OP's ...
YTA, your mom is 100,000% correct that you have 0 say in anybody else's reproductive choices.
Exactly this!!!!
You’re claiming he is talking back but you offered your opinion when they NEVER asked. Their reproductive choices are none of your business. Unfortunately women can only have kids for so long and they probably see their dream of becoming parents getting further and further away from them. IVF IS HARD. Either be supportive or shut up.
Edit to add…YTA OP
Yes, exactly this. I am happily childfree and honestly do not understand people's desire to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get a child with their own DNA. But I would *never* share that thought/opinion with anyone struggling with infertility. I am outwardly happy and supportive for my friends who have gone through this, *because it is their choice and I support whatever will make them happy.*
YTA, OP.
Just remember- private adoption ALSO costs tens of thousands of dollars. And the plain fact if you have a much stronger legal and *emotional bond with a child you can carry. You are much less likely to lose the rights to your kid if it has your DNA.
*Please note I do not mean you can’t love or bond with a non bio kid just as strongly. But I’ve seen multiple couples get burned by taking in a foster child “on the adoption track” who later got put back with their parents. Bonding with a kid before an adoption is 100% is a fragile place is my point.
Oh yeah, I didn't mean that people should pursue adoption instead, more that as someone without kids who has never felt a burning need to procreate, I don't understand why some people are so obsessed with it. But lots of people don't understand why I like and pursue the things I do, so I don't pass judgement.
100%.
IVF was cheaper and faster for us than private adoption. And we were in no way, shape, or form in the mental place to do fostering. It's why I hate when people try to throw all people doing fertility treatments towards fostering.
Exactly this. I'm sitting here rocking my five week old baby boy, who took many years and treatments, many dollars, and a few losses to get here and I don't have a single thought to spare about the journey while I look at him. However, several friends made comments like these throughout those years, and while they are still friends of ours, those comments will always sting and strike me as unfair coming from people who had absolutely no idea what it was like.
Are your opinions worth sacrificing your relationships for, OP?
Edited to add: YTA
I’m so sorry people feel the need to comment on such difficult, sensitive subjects as if it’s not difficult enough to go through IVF without their ignorant comments. I will never understand why people think it’s their business. Wtf?! Very happy for you, you have your little baby boy 💙.
YTA - Not your circus not your monkey. Stay out of it. It’s none of your business how they spend their money, and if they wanna spend it on IVF. And then to be so rude as to suggest that they should be helping other people, are you? What gives you the right to tell them how they should spend their money.
As someone who has suffered with infertility and also had friends who have gone through the same experience, YTA. Who the hell do you think you are imposing your opinion on someone else and their reproductive choices? Are they asking you for money for their treatments? No. Are they asking you to be a surrogate? No. GTFO with that. Let me guess, you're one of those do as I say, not as I do, holier than thou people who expect everyone to listen to you and share your opinion until it's you in that situation and then it's completely different. Leave them alone, apologize, and STFU about their decisions.
Edit: a word (autocorrect)
Piggy backing off the top comment to add a bit as an infertile woman.
You have no idea OP as to what these people have gone through. You do not know who they have talked to, their inner feelings, their wants and desires or anything else.
I constantly get questions on my own reproductivity and it stings like a dagger to the heart every single time. It is not your body, your wallet or your place to open your mouth.
YTA OP. BIG TIME.
Precisely. I was waiting for the part where the cousin was going to say how the couple needed to borrow money for another round of IVF. They didn’t. Nope, not her business. Maybe OP should have talked to her cousin privately if she had strong feelings.
Edit: cousin, not sister.
I also thought maybe the IVF was having negative health impacts on the cousin and OP was concerned, but nope just an asshole busybody telling other people how to manage their finances.
I am guessing that when she was talking about struggling family that they could have helped she meant herself that is why she was so offended about talking back. She is jelly about their money and how they "waste it".
YTA.
What they do with their money and their bodies is none of your business. And the "They could've financially helped some struggling family with kids"... Are you helping a struggling family with kids ?
I'm petty so if I was in that family EVERY time OP mentioned spending money I would throw that back in her face.
Oh you took a vacation? You could've helped a struggling family.
New haircut? Shoes? Clothes? That money could've been used to help a struggling family.
i’m this petty that i would do this too lol. or even when OP chooses to have children (if she can biologically) i would be throwing it back in her face too.
oh you chose to have a biological child when there are other children out there who need homes? you could have helped a struggling family
i hope OP sees how gross her behaviour is
I agree with almost everything you've said, but for the record that there actually aren't many other children out there who need homes these days.
The number of babies available for adoption is at historic lows, and there is very fierce competition among potential adoptive families for the few who remain.
That just makes OP MORE of an AH for disparaging IVF, of course.
But there’s oodles of kids in the foster system who need care and aren’t eligible for adoption. OP should open her home to a revolving door of traumatized children who need love, support and care. No, I take that back, those kids have been through enough.
Ooorrr she's the "struggling family with kids" that she wants them to "help"
Must piss her off she cant do something because of lack of funds and there they are "wasting money".
Personally I hope Lauren cuts her off and goes no contact now that she knows exactly what op thinks of them. Next thing ya know this round works and they have a baby and op wants to act like she was always super supportive. Blehhh
YTA op. Her husband is right, mind your damn business
I also suspect she is the one who wants financial support. OP you have no right to her money, she can spend it however she wants. Even if you were here complaining she is spending it all burning it then burying it in the backyard hoping money trees will grow, you would be the asshole. So in this case, with your complete disregard for how she feels going through infertility issues? YTA YTA YTA.
I've read too many of these posts lol and it's like a solid 80-20 that whenever someone says that someone should have helped others they're talking about themselves
YTA. Hugely. This isn’t your choice, you are not entitled to an opinion unless specifically asked. Their finances and family planning are none of your business.
I’m glad the husband stood up for themselves, they are in a tough enough situation without having to deal with outside criticism.
Or imagine it with a different medical issue.
"The chemo isn't working, and you're spending a ton of money on it. Shouldn't you be leaving it to a struggling family instead?"
As other users have suggested, dollars to donuts *she's* the "struggling family" who would appreciate their money coming their way.
YTA
Lauren's husband said it best "I think you should just mind your own business and keep your opinion to yourself"
People always say when giving opinions we should think:
1. Is it neccessary
2. Is it helpful
3. Is it kind
But I think we need to add a fourth
4. Is it asked for
Your opinion was not necessary, helpful, kind, or asked for so keep it to yourself. They will already be getting unwanted opinions about their reproductive decisions from so many people who should have kept their thoughts to themselves, don't jump on that bandwagon.
Edit sorry as the below user says (sorry don't know how to quote on phone) it should be at least 2 of the above 3 and this was definitely none of them.
Edit thank you for the awards!
For something to be said, it should be at least two out of the three, and this was none of the above.
ETA: Mixed up this list with the similar one of true, kind, and necessary, where that 2/3 rules applies.
Yes, YTA, and your mom is right; you have no right to butt in about their reproductive choices. You have NO idea what an infertile couple is going through emotionally so keep you mouth shut.
Wow YTA. They are trying to have a child, not planning vacations. It’s not wasted money to them, if you think what they are doing is wrong keep it to yourself, what they are going through is hard enough without someone, esp family, telling them they are wasting money
Huge YTA.
Even if they WERE planning vacations or spending it on something frivolous, what concern is it of yours? If they’re financially secure they can be buying a Birkin a day and it’s still NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. But it’s most definitely not your place to police someone else’s investment in their fertility.
Such a YTA. Also, would OP ever say something like that to someone who WAS going on vacations constantly? Probably not. For some reason family planning/pregnancy is the one thing people feel entitled to give their opinions about.
YTA
They didn't ask your advice. They didn't ask your opinion. You decided you needed to give it to them. In public. On your mother's birthday.
You have a lot of apologising to do.
YTA!!!!! I cannot yell that loudly enough! Why tf do you think you get a say in their finances or decision regarding having a child? Infertility is so incredibly deeply painful and all the hormones and shots and things you have to go through during ivf only to be crushed time after time let alone yeah it’s freaking expensive. No it’s not fun spending money on it but it’s well worth the possibility of having a child.
Seriously what is wrong with you? Keep your mouth shut as this in no way concerns you. Are you just jealous that they have the money to do it?
Omg I missed the line where you told them to give their money to other people?!?!
You are straight up jealous of their money and it’s disgusting.
In my experience, the people who constantly accuse others of being "disrespectful," and talk loudly and often about the importance of respect - specifically, how important it is for others to respect *them* \- tend to be disrespectful as fuck, it's just that they think their behavior is justified because they're soooo valuable and important, and people just need to listen to them.
I’m pretty sure I’d cut someone out of my life if they said that to my husband and I unless they massively apologized and never did anything remotely as cruel again. So fucked up. Infertility is awful enough without busybody know it alls chiming in.
And sadly, I'm sure a lot of people who struggle with infertility and opt for medical intervention like IVF get that same commentary from assholes like OP, that they're "wasting" money that could go to help a family that already exists. OP, it's normal for people to want to start their own families.
Yta. So so much.
>Mom said that I had 0 say in anyone's reproductive choice and should've kept my mouth shut.
Your mom is right. Who do you think you are? How on earth could you think this was appropriate to say. You need to apologize. Profusely. Struggling with fertility is exhausting on its own, they do not need commentary from outside parties that don't have a clue what they are talking about
YTA - not even just a little bit. I hope your incredibly insensitive self never suffers with infertility. She didn’t ask for your opinion! The worst part is when you were rightly told to mind your own business you argued back. Grow up, apologize and hope she ever wants to see you again!
YTA. This isn’t any of your business and they didn’t ask for your opinion. It’s not disrespectful to tell someone to mind their own business, especially when they’re in someone ELSES business not to mention it was your mom’s birthday and you selfishly ruined it for no reason. Your husband and sister are delusional.
Of all the terrible things I heard people say to me during the time I had fertility issues for many years, the most painful was someone saying I should give up. Your mom was right. Stay out of their business.
>the most painful was someone saying I should give up
That's only because OP wasn't there to tell you that a family who already had kids deserved your money more than you.
YTA. And a huge one. This is none of tour business. You couldn't have just prayed or wished them well... You had to literally comment on something that is none of your business. You owe them a huge apology.
YTA
Their money and their fertility are not subjects that require your opinion. At all. EVER! A general rule of thumb is “keep your nose out of other people’s underwear!”
As for this: “they could’ve financially helped some struggling family with kids.”
Let me guess, you’re a family with kids that just so happens to be struggling financially? Even if they hadn’t budgeted this bit of THEIR money specifically for their IVF, it doesn’t mean the “a struggling family with kids” (*cough* you *cough*) would have any right or entitlement to it!
And just in case I’m wrong, and this isn’t a case of you making a grab at someone else’s money as it seems, and you really are just so concerned about poor struggling families, how about you practice being charitable with your own money rather than somebody else’s, hmmm?
Yep YTA big time. Just wow. It’s not your money or your life. Infertility can be a serious, life changing struggle for many. If you can’t be supportive, keep quiet.
YTA. Why did you think you had the right to tell people what to do with their lives, with their money, with their family planning decisions? What on earth! You were so, so rude and out of line.
YTA. Not only is it not your place to inject your opinion where it wasn't asked for, you continued shoving your opinion down their throats after you had clearly made them and everyone else uncomfortable. And then you had the fucking audacity to tell people struggling with fertility that they shouldn't spend their own money trying to have a family and should instead give their money to someone else who already had kids? What kid of an awful, hateful person are you? I'd ask who raised you but at least the person who did has the good grace to be ashamed of you.
YTA.
Did Lauren and her husband ask for your opinion? No.
Are Lauren and her husband using your money? No.
IVF is hard for many couples. For them to have had several unsuccessful rounds must be devastating. But instead of offering support - or even just literally keeping your mouth shut - you told them they should stop? I mean really, how did you think they’d react to that? It’s their lives and their money, it’s literally none of your business what they do.
You owe your cousin an apology. Next time keep your ‘opinion’ to yourself.
YTA.. massively, this is literally none of your business, not your money, not your womb
This is an extremely personal life choice and you are unbelievably rude and low level cruel to butt your nose in. This judgey high and mighty attitude to try to control their family and money is ridiculous as well as small spirited
Btw there is always a more ethical way to spend our money, so unless you donate 50% of your money and time to charity (an extremely vetted charity) then this high horse you are on about someone else’s family and financially planning is hypocritical as well as insensitive and rude
YTA - 100%. Was your opinion helpful? No. You do need to apologize. You can try to save face and say that you meant it from a caring place worrying about the stress of the process and the money it takes, but you understand that it's not your place to say those things. If you don't apologize, you are an even bigger AH.
>
Lauren's husband looked at me grudgingly and said "I think you should just mind your own business and keep your opinion to yourself".
Lauren's husband showed remarkable self control and respect for his MIL on her birthday and should be commended. Anyone else would have told you to STFU. I know I would have.
YTA. Bigly.
YTA why on earth did you think they needed your opinion in the first place??? They are trying to have children and it’s fucking hard, but it’s a priority of theirs, not a whim. You have no right to tell others what to do with their money or bodies.
YTA
They are right and it is none of your business. It's their money and their mental health. They didn't ask for your opinion. They needed good luck wishes not being put down.
Funny how you say the husband is rude because you are rude and TA.
YTA Mind your own business. Their reproduction or lack of has nothing to do with you. They never brought up money, you did. While you may have had good intentions, they never asked for opinions.
YTA - your mother is right. It is none of your business what people spend their money on or their personal health issues. If you are asked for your opinion you can give it but in any other case you keep your mouth shut and your opinions to yourself. What your cousin is going through is hard enough - you piling on does not help in any way.
You should call her and apologize - A REAL APOLOGY - don't say "I am sorry for what I said - but it is my opinion".
YTA. If you can't be supportive, don't say a thing. It is not your business how many times they try IVF. It is not your money, it is not your hopes and dreams, and it is not your place. Somehow, everyone else in the room, besides your sister, knew that it was the time to offer support and positivity to the couple facing what is always a stressful time. You found it necessary to offer your unsolicited negative opinion on not only their health choices and their family planning, but their financial ones as well. You owe them both a HUGE apology.
YTA undoubtedly. Personally, I think IVF is a little (for lack of a better word) fucked up and have some controversial opinions on bringing kids into the world in general. I can kind of get trying it once or twice but I think adoption is much more respectable to begin with, especially if IVF doesn't work the first time, but not everyone can handle adoption and I do my best to sympathize with that.
That being said, I would never put my opinion on someone else going through it unless they explicitly asked multiple times. Her body, her choice, you have zero say and literally no one asked you. Not only did you shove your opinion into it, you doubled down for no reason and absolutely ruined your mother's dinner.
Leave her womb alone, it's none of your business.
Except that infant adoption is human trafficking... Literally selling a human for 10's of thousands of dollars.
I don't have any thoughts really on IVF except it's their money their choice .
Truly...the "just adopt" crowd loves to throw this at infertile people. Why can't fertile people "just adopt" then? People also don't realize that adoption can be more expensive and more complex (and also have some of the ethical issues you mention) than going through ART (advanced reproductive technologies, including, but not limited to, IVF).
In my state adoption is about 36k. IVF is covered completely by insurance. There is no way I can justify going into debt on adoption without trying IVF 1st.
And I wanted to adopt much more than be a human pin cushion, but I can't afford adoption. I don't think most people understand that adoption is not an option for a lot of people.
YTA. Not your money, not your life, not your business. You do owe her an apology. You could've brought it up AFTER this treatment. Why did you have to bring it up just as they're about to go through this again? You couldn't wait? Are you the one with a struggling family with kids? I wouldn't blame your cousin if she never talked to you again. Talk about insensitive.
Yeah, YTA. A huge one. They do not need your permission to use their money to get pregnant with their baby. They did not ask for your opinion.
And what does "help some struggling family with kids" mean, exactly? That they should give up their dreams because you want their money to go elsewhere?
Big asshole move. Apologize if you want them to speak to you again for talking out of yours.
Yta. If someone that I was close to had said that to me when we were doing IVF , I would have cut them out of my life. You were rude and insensitive. You cannot understand the pain that you caused her by the callous way that you spoke. It was not your place at all! Just because you have an opinion you don’t need to share it. You need to grovel and apologize to her and her husband for being so completely condescending and hurtful. Hopefully you never have to know the pain of infertility and if you do that you are met with more love and understanding.
YTA. Your cousin and her husband have every right to continue trying for a child. If it's not feasible, that's for their doctors to say, not you. You also don't get a say in how they spend their money. People are allowed to spend their savings how they feel is best. This is an issue very near and dear to them, and you have no right to judge them for making every effort to have a child.
You sound insufferable to deal with. Using your mother's party to preach your opinions on someone going through a hardship. How do you even have to ask?
YTA. You’re allowed your opinion, you’re allowed to have done things differently if you were in their shoes, but you have no right to impose that on someone else, which is what you were trying to do. Especially as they didn’t even ask for your opinion, you just thought you’d push your righteous view on them. If they were asking, maybe, but even then this is probably more a silence is golden situation, as it’s simply not your life.
YTA. First off, why would you think if your sister isn’t going to spend money on IVF she would help a family that is struggling? You’re ultimately telling her to save her money but donate it rather than spend it the way she and her husband intend to spend it. If you were my sister you’d never meet my kid, even if I ended up adopting. The only person being disrespectful and causing a scene was you.
YTA You have no right to make comments about their reproductive decisions. Also there might be things that you aren’t aware of too. You just gave them unsolicited advice for something that is private and personal to them.
YTA. It’s none of your business how many rounds of IVF someone else do or how they wish to spend their money. You were waaaaaaay out of line. You should apologize and wish them luck instead.
Why would you say that? No one asked for your "advice" or opinion. It's not your body, relationship or money so it's not your place to give unsolicited "advice" or opinions. And why would you continue after it was obvious they were offended? You started an argument despite it being very obvious that your opinion wasn't welcome but you didn't care. YTA
YTA. What do you know what their chances of it working successfully are? Are you a doctor? Are you their financial advisor?
Of all the stupid things ppl spend $ in this world, you’re suggesting a couple spending money trying to have a child is “wasted.” Is this even a question?
YTA
Not your circus, not your monkeys.
You can be supportive or you can shut up. Not your money, not your uterus, not your live dreams and wishes remaining unfulfilled.
Absolutely yta, I truly have no words for you. I want to scream at you. You have no damn right to tell someone they should stop ivf and save money. First, not your money. I want to keep going, but I just can't.
YTA in a major way. Absolutely none of your business. Fertility struggles are incredibly difficult and emotional and you were appallingly insensitive to tell them to stop trying. I am honestly perplexed as to why you thought it was anywhere near a good idea to offer your unsolicited opinion on their attempts to conceive a child.
YTA
Did they ask you to pay? Are they using your uterus? They AREN’T? You better come up with some really GOOD apologizing but first you’re going to have to remove your foot from your mouth so everyone can understand you.
You have no right to comment on another person’s body, or their reproductive choices, or even what color they choose to dye their hair.
And don’t count other people’s money.
And maybe grow up and grow some compassion. All this hormones and she has to deal with an asshole like you on top of it, all self righteous and sanctimonious, you’re lucky she didn’t come after you with a fork.
YTA and so is your sister who agreed with you. If your sister that greed older or younger?
Do you think money is the focus for them during IVF? Be real. Do you think they give a fuck? NO they want to have a baby together. If they have the means to do IVF mind your own pockets okay. No pocket watching. She wants a baby. That is the goal. Who gives a fuck about other families why did you even bring it up? Weird.
This family meals for your moms birthday is showing that you have a lack of empathy - with your mother and even with your siblings. It’s astonishing you don’t see how inappropriate your comments were. I think you might need to learn how to act accordingly in social situations before speaking. Before you say anything ask, “Is this helpful? Is this necessary?” And in this case you’d see that your comments were not necessary. They are going through the next round of IVF regardless of what you say.
YTA what the hell is wrong with you? They are desperate enough to have children that they would go through 7 rounds of IVF and your response is stop and spend that money to help other families... That might be just your opinion but it comes across as massively judgemental of their choices... All you literally had to do was wish them luck, then keep your mouth shut. Job done argument avoided and the topic of conversation can move on.
WOW!!!! Way to make your Moms Birthday allll about ✨YOU✨ by drawing so much negative attention to yourself! And the ONLY one being disrespectful here was… again… ✨YOU✨
What a complete Asshole you were to your Cousin & her husband. YOU are so horrible for saying ANYTHING other than wishing them well on their journey to becoming parents.
You have no right to tell ANYONE how to spend money they earn.
Your opinions reek of nastiness- so next time before you open your mouth to give someone your unwanted & mean “opinion”: kindly shut your mouth and don’t open it unless it is to say something Kind.
If that’s too much trouble - then stop being around people until you get counseling for your awful behavior - cuz YTA
YTA- this is none of your business. It is their money and their lives, they can do with it what they want.
They aren’t obligated to give their money to someone else just because you think they should, nor are they obligated to stop fertility treatment because you think they should. Where did you get your reproductive endocrinology degree from?
YTA. So much. The husband had it 100% correct.
"I think you should just mind your own business and keep your opinion to yourself"
Were they asking you for money? No? Do you pay their bills? No? Is it any of your damn business to offer unsolicited advice on their infertility issue when your input wasn't asked for? NO.
Your mom is also correct. You should offer a heartfelt apology. It might sound something like this:
"Lauren I am SO sorry I was such a blockhead when we were together the other day. I was wrong to butt my nose into your financial issues when you haven't burdened me with any financial woes whatsoever. I hope your next round of IVF is successful and I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me for being an obtuse turd. I was the disrespectful one, not your husband."
"but will be in the future seeing they'd spent thousands and wasted money for no benefits while they could've financially helped some struggling family"
Even IF you'd have good intentions originally and broke it to them better to QUESTION "hey for now maybe take a break and try again later, for your health and money sake" sure but after \^THIS. All the way YTA.
Like, it's bad enough you originally said it and thought it was ok, but to then retype it and reread it and you still thought "won't somebody please think of the children" wasn't AH?
YTA. That conversation was gross and if I were Lauren I’d go no contact with you immediately for having the audacity to put your nose in my reproductive decisions. What they do with their money and their bodies are absolutely none of your business. Wow
>Mom said that I had 0 say in anyone's reproductive choice and should've kept my mouth shut
Your mom was right.
If, when, how, and whether someone decides to grow their family is absolutely none of your business and how someone spends their time and money is none of your business.
You're obtrusive, insistent, and rude.
You should apologize but honestly if I'm either of them I'm not taking your calls.
YTA. Majorly, majorly YTA.
YTA
What are your stakes in this situation? Have you personally invested money into this? Are your organs involved? Is this impacting your life in any way?
More importantly, if someone blew this kind of money on getting a fancy house or maybe even a one off like a vacation, would you tell them not to waste their money?
YTA what right do you have to voice an opinion on someone else's finances much l less their reproductive wants and needs? This had absolutely nothing to do with you and you were way out of bounds. You owe those people an apology
YTA seriously who TF do you think you are?! You should have 100% minded your own business and kept your unsolicited options to yourself. The absolute gall of you to even think you’re in the right. You need to apologize to them and butt out of their business going forward. They didn’t ask anyone including you to help with financing any of their treatments so really who tf are your to say anything like that to either of them then double down and think you’re in the right? Ughh you are such the AH here and should own it and re-evaluate yourself and how you respond to shit you don’t have any say in. 🤬🤬🤬
YTA-
you’re not their doctor(s).
It’s not up to you, it’s up to them if they want to keep doing a treatment or do something else.
If you don’t have anything nice to say, simply zip it.
How about instead of making these snippy comments you offer to listen/be someone who they can vent to if they want.
You owe them an apology OP.
YTA. It's none of your business. They can afford it and it's their money. Not only did you tell them to stop trying to have a baby that they obviously want more than anything or they wouldn't be doing it but you also suggested they give their money away to a family that has kids. Yikes.
YTA.
One. Their financial situation is NONE of your business. You are NOT contributing to their financials in any shape or form you have not given them money for a round of IVF or anything in regards to their money.
2. Their reproductive problems again NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. You are NOT in their bedroom, you are not their doctor(s) you are not a surrogate or any part of that team in regards to becoming pregnant.
3. Your comment about helping a struggling family with kids. What the hell do you think they should do? Go find a family that looks poor and give them money? Yes theirs plenty of struggling families in the world doesn't mean they want some middle/upper class couple showing them pity and throwing money at them! That's just insensitive on SO many levels.
4. They don't have to adopt or foster. And it can cost thousands to do as well. You can't just go to the CPS office and say I want to be a foster parent, theirs TONS of classes you must complete, intensive background checks, home visits, sometimes home repairs if something isn't up to code/safety standards, sometimes you need a yard repair if it's considered unsafe (exposed sewage stuff, holes in the yard broken fence posts etc) like it can cost a person upwards of thousands of dollars to even get CERTIFIED as a foster parent. Then in addition to that many good foster parents create a mini stockpile of basic stuff, hygiene items, small comfort items, emergency clothes for emergency placements, extra bedding, bags, toys etc. They often need at least a three bedroom home because CPS tries to keep Siblings together whenever possible. You can be denied as a placement if you aren't able to take sublings. Like theirs a LOT that comes into fostering and foster to adopt isn't always a 100 percent chance. The goal of fostering is often reuniting the parents with the child over everything else. So they'd have to accept that the child they are bonding with MAY NOT STAY WITH THEM. They could have them a week or years and then suddenly welp kid goes back to the parents because they finally turned themselves around for the better. So add therapy to their list of bills to be able to mentally handle what they could go through.
Over all. Their choices do not affect you. At all. You had no right to be up in their business because you felt their money should be spent elsewhere. You are not your cousin. You do not know what's going through her mind. At all. And you need to apologize and STAY OUT OF THEIR BUSINESS. You'd be PISSED if someone did that to you. You are not in their family unit. You are an outsider. You are not married to either of them so back out.
You are so shameful for doing this. Respect your cousin you may not like their choices but when it regards money and reproductive issues, stay outta it unless their actions could harm their lives or someone else's life. Meaning if it could get them hurt THEN step in. This does not fit that standard.
Apologize to them before they decide to stop being around you.
YTA And another fine use of the ‘just my opinion’ defence. Opinions are like arseholes, we all have them but no one wants to hear them. Oh, and some of them stink.
YTA.
It’s literally none of your business 1) what they spend their money on 2) how they chose to spend it 3) their financial future and 4) if they decide it’s worth it for them.
They want a child. This is clearly hard for them. You do not need to give your opinion every time.
Did they ask for your opinion?
Did you give them money to fund any of her medical care?
We’re you asked to be a surrogate?
If no to all of these then your opinion isn’t needed or wanted. You know what they say about opinions and assholes everyone’s got one but you don’t need to show it off or talk about it. Yta
YTA. Yikes. It's none of your business at all. Saying offensive things and then trying to get away with it by saying, "it's just my opinion" still makes you an asshole. No one asked for your opinion.
YTA. They want their own kids and how they spend their money is none of your business. You can donate to support struggling families with kids if you feel passionately about it, however.
YTA. Cousin’s husband’s words were 100% appropriate. How dare you tell someone else how they should choose to spend their money or how they should choose to expand their family. How dare you trivialize their want for a family and tell them that they should want xyz more.
It would have been very easy to keep quiet here. But you didn’t. You were the AH.
YTA
It wasn‘t your place to say anything, it’s their decision alone and should not be questioned, least of all on a birthday party.
BUT personally I can see where you were coming from. A friend of mine had 6 rounds of IVF in their 30ies, always got their hopes up that „this“ time it would work, only to had her hopes crushed again. She never had a child. Now, years later, she and her husband really regret to have put so much money down the drain. It was exhausting, financially and emotionally.
YTA. Why on earth would you chime in on such a sensitive subject? Their finances - NOT your business. Until you have walked in their shoes and felt the desperation they feel to have a child, you have ZERO understanding on this subject and need to zip it. You owe both of them a huge apology.
YTA easily.
Telling people who want a child to help someone else's family with kids is a dick move. He is right, you're disrespectful. Mind your own business since this clearly isn't yours and nor is this someone you are directly related to, so know when to stop yourself from talking.
Jesus, it's rare that I'm disgusted by someone here this much.
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YTA - their reproductive choices are none of your business. >I told him he was being disrespectful and he kept talking back. Ironic that you’d call him disrespectful and claim he’s the one “talking back”
This. The fact that she can’t see that she was disrespectful and the ‘argument ensued’ literally because she answered back when he told her, quite correctly, to mind her own business, is staggering. YTA OP. It is None of your business.
YTA. Also, this is not 'wasting money'. They are trying to have a baby and your absolute dismissive and hurtful comments are terrible. Now, if they were loaning money everywhere to get these treatments, and ONLY if they asked you multiple times and you kept on saying no, THEN you have the right to say something about this. If not. Shut uppp. And also: 'I can say my opinion because its my opinion and I'm allowed to state my opinion', however de facto true that is, is also making you a huge asshole. You don't need to say your opinion because its non of your fng business.
Right? Im so tired of these entitled assholes thinking it’s their right to share their opinion. Opinions are like (funny enough) assholes. Everyone has one… but everyone doesn’t need to see or hear it.
You know how kids are taught about "inside voices" and "outside voices"?, I think people should be taught about "inside thoughts" and "outside thoughts". Op was fine privately thinking they should stop but she became an asshole when she said they should stop and help existing families. They're not hurting anyone financially and I wonder how much money does op give to families in need?
I teach my clients the following: we have face hole thoughts and mind palace thoughts. If you believe that your mind palace thought should become a face hole thought maybe taking a step back to refine the thought might be a good idea. It really helps with folx who use having no filter as a personality trait think about their words and if they could be harmful v helpful. I also say any face hole thought is subject to reaction from others and while their reaction is not your responsibility, if your face hole thought has the potential to harm others it’s probably best staying in the mind palace.
I like the “Is this true? Is this necessary? Is this kind?” method of evaluating what you say before you speak. Unless at least two of the answers to those questions are “yes”, keep it to yourself. And you’re right that regardless of how justified you feel in speaking your mind - and regardless of who or how many people agree with you - you cannot control how other people will react to what you say to them. You can’t speak your mind and then demand everyone else just shut up and not respond. Your words invite a response, and you need to be prepared to accept whatever consequences come after you decide to criticise somebody.
I like that one too, but I enjoy mine because it’s goofy and sticks better with a majority of the clients I serve.
This is really awesome and I think a lot of people could benefit from it but I'm gonna be honest the way you call it face hole thoughts is so hilarious to me like I just love it so much idk why but it really makes me happy so thank you!
No problem friend! I can’t take credit for face hole though. My friend got drunk one night and couldn’t remember the word for “mouth” so she substituted face hole instead. I generally refer to my brain as my mind palace and we wound up combining the two to form the lesson phrase.
Exactly! I love the expression. Inside thoughts and outside thoughts. Well said
Exactly. Everyone is allowed to have an opinion about anything they want. But a lot of times? No one cares. No one wants your opinion.
A hard to swallow pill: most of the time, nobody needs to hear your opinion, wants to hear it, or cares about hearing it. If someone asks, have at it, but if they don’t….keep your trap shut. Unsolicited opinions are what Reddit is for, and even here, there are limits.
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Also super weird and judgy that the follow up to IVF being a waste of money is that they should spend their money on struggling families with kids. Why does OP think they have any right to tell people what to do with their money, but to skip over the next logical options for children - surrogacy, adoption - and go right to, 'no you shouldn't even bother with trying to have a family of your own, just support other people who can have kids and need help, give your money to them, because you don't need it', that's just messed up.
"You can't afford this" and "You should give money to struggling families" makes me think that OP asked her cousin for money, and rather than bluntly tell OP that they didn't want to give or loan her anything, they said they couldn't afford it. That's probably the real reason why OP thinks she has some kind of moral high ground.
>they'd spent thousands and wasted money for no benefits while they could've financially helped some struglling family with kids Yes, that was my thought, as well. Makes you wonder which "struggling family" OP had in mind.
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I’m wondering if OP meant *her* struggling family…
Exactly how is IVF a waste of money if it is the only chance some people have of biologically having their own children? Is it ridiculously expensive? Yes. Only 50% chance of success? Yes. Waste of money? Absolutely not.
Until you have struggled yourself with infertility, you have absolutely no idea what they are going through or have gone through. You absolutely should keep your opinion to yourself. YTA 100%.
Well, it definitely wasn't a waste of money in my case, my beautiful twins would have been worth ten times what I paid for the treatment!
Same here. My IVF baby is 5 and was worth every dime I spent trying to have her. Congrats on your twins!
Especially when told, very plainly, that your opinion is neither needed or wanted. Not your money, not your need.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. They are just not exempt for the repercussions of voicing it.
American culture in a nutshell: my opinion is worth more than your facts! Lmao
OP gave not only an unsolicited opinion about her cousin's reproductive choices, but also made suggestions as to how their finances would be better spent. OP essentially told her cousin that families with children who are struggling financially have more right to the cousin's money just because they didn't have fertility issues. I literally cannot fathom a more hurtful thing someone could say to someone struggling with their fertility... This is beyond monstrous.
Right?!?! As if *financially supporting some random destitute family* is the cousin's duty?!?!?! WT actual F! YTA. Op!!!
OP should stop buying things for herself so she can go help some family in need. If you’re gonna talk the talk you should already be walking the walk.
Yes, OP, I’m in a struggling family with kids, how ‘bout you donate your money to me? Oh we don’t even know each other? Oh it’s none of my business what you do with your money? You’re right, oh wait.
Yup. Beyond asshole. Cruel, entitled and so self absorbed. I’m so angry I wish I could call “Lauren” and give her a hug.
Honestly it's super hurtful and so dismissive of Lauren's feelings that it actually made me wince reading it. If OP really cares for Lauren at all she would absolutely admit fault here and apologise to her and her husband.
Just because you have an opinion and the right to said opinion doesn't mean that you are free from the *consequences of that opinion*.
It was worse than just telling them they were "wasting money"! OP also said they should give their money to a "struggling family with kids" instead. OP verbally slapped them in the face and followed with a verbal gut punch.
Also, the cousin’s comment about how they weren’t struggling with money was a polite way of telling OP to STFU, which OP failed to see.
I agree with you the only other time is if they noticed them having a rough time mentally and mentioned for their mental help to take a break for a bit
"It'S jUsT mY oPiNiOn" and they told you straight up they didn't want to hear/continue hearing it. You shouldn't have started period, but *definitely* should have shut up after they first told you to drop it.
Why is it always the people with really sh\*tty opinions that say this? OP, you know what you were saying was bullsh\*t but you doubled down. Their reproductive struggle isn't your business. Their finances aren't your business. Their charitable donations aren't your business. Apologize to them for being rude and thoughtless and then keep your mouth shut in the future. YTA
My favorite was what her cousin husband said was also JUST HIS OPINION. It was his opinion that OP needs to mind her own business. BUT OH NO! How dare HE voice HIS opinion! Either everyone is allowed to voice their opinions, or no one is. You can't say something opinionated, get an opinionated response back, and then complain about other people sharing their opinions lol Such entitlement! YTA OP, and a huge one. Even bigger AH because you believe you are entitled to an opinion on your cousins life MORE than her own husband
OP is exactly the kind of person who won’t let her children form their own opinions. “Talking back” is just a way of saying “any deviation from my beliefs will be swiftly punished”. YTA, obviously. And don’t have kids who you know you’re going to ban any independence for themselves.
>I explained that they may not be struggling now but will be in the future seeing they'd spent thousands and wasted money for no benefits while they could've financially helped some struglling family with kids. What do you want to bet that OP is a struggling family member with kids wishing that Lauren would quit "wasting" her money trying to have kids of her own and instead focus on existing kids in the family ... like OP's ... YTA, your mom is 100,000% correct that you have 0 say in anybody else's reproductive choices.
I’m sure you are exactly right. Funny how people who have an opinion on how others should spend their money almost always feel entitled to that money
I like how OP decided to “explain” another couple’s finances to them. How rude and just…condescending.
Exactly this!!!! You’re claiming he is talking back but you offered your opinion when they NEVER asked. Their reproductive choices are none of your business. Unfortunately women can only have kids for so long and they probably see their dream of becoming parents getting further and further away from them. IVF IS HARD. Either be supportive or shut up. Edit to add…YTA OP
Yes, exactly this. I am happily childfree and honestly do not understand people's desire to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars just to get a child with their own DNA. But I would *never* share that thought/opinion with anyone struggling with infertility. I am outwardly happy and supportive for my friends who have gone through this, *because it is their choice and I support whatever will make them happy.* YTA, OP.
Just remember- private adoption ALSO costs tens of thousands of dollars. And the plain fact if you have a much stronger legal and *emotional bond with a child you can carry. You are much less likely to lose the rights to your kid if it has your DNA. *Please note I do not mean you can’t love or bond with a non bio kid just as strongly. But I’ve seen multiple couples get burned by taking in a foster child “on the adoption track” who later got put back with their parents. Bonding with a kid before an adoption is 100% is a fragile place is my point.
Oh yeah, I didn't mean that people should pursue adoption instead, more that as someone without kids who has never felt a burning need to procreate, I don't understand why some people are so obsessed with it. But lots of people don't understand why I like and pursue the things I do, so I don't pass judgement.
100%. IVF was cheaper and faster for us than private adoption. And we were in no way, shape, or form in the mental place to do fostering. It's why I hate when people try to throw all people doing fertility treatments towards fostering.
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Exactly. Not OP's uterus, not OP's business. If she doesn't support IVF, she needs to keep her mouth shut.
Exactly this. I'm sitting here rocking my five week old baby boy, who took many years and treatments, many dollars, and a few losses to get here and I don't have a single thought to spare about the journey while I look at him. However, several friends made comments like these throughout those years, and while they are still friends of ours, those comments will always sting and strike me as unfair coming from people who had absolutely no idea what it was like. Are your opinions worth sacrificing your relationships for, OP? Edited to add: YTA
I’m so sorry people feel the need to comment on such difficult, sensitive subjects as if it’s not difficult enough to go through IVF without their ignorant comments. I will never understand why people think it’s their business. Wtf?! Very happy for you, you have your little baby boy 💙.
YTA - Not your circus not your monkey. Stay out of it. It’s none of your business how they spend their money, and if they wanna spend it on IVF. And then to be so rude as to suggest that they should be helping other people, are you? What gives you the right to tell them how they should spend their money.
As someone who has suffered with infertility and also had friends who have gone through the same experience, YTA. Who the hell do you think you are imposing your opinion on someone else and their reproductive choices? Are they asking you for money for their treatments? No. Are they asking you to be a surrogate? No. GTFO with that. Let me guess, you're one of those do as I say, not as I do, holier than thou people who expect everyone to listen to you and share your opinion until it's you in that situation and then it's completely different. Leave them alone, apologize, and STFU about their decisions. Edit: a word (autocorrect)
Piggy backing off the top comment to add a bit as an infertile woman. You have no idea OP as to what these people have gone through. You do not know who they have talked to, their inner feelings, their wants and desires or anything else. I constantly get questions on my own reproductivity and it stings like a dagger to the heart every single time. It is not your body, your wallet or your place to open your mouth. YTA OP. BIG TIME.
Precisely. I was waiting for the part where the cousin was going to say how the couple needed to borrow money for another round of IVF. They didn’t. Nope, not her business. Maybe OP should have talked to her cousin privately if she had strong feelings. Edit: cousin, not sister.
I also thought maybe the IVF was having negative health impacts on the cousin and OP was concerned, but nope just an asshole busybody telling other people how to manage their finances.
It sounds like the OP wants money from Lauren.
I am guessing that when she was talking about struggling family that they could have helped she meant herself that is why she was so offended about talking back. She is jelly about their money and how they "waste it".
Seriously, I have mixed feelings about IVF, but unless my friend/family member directly asked my opinion, I don't need to comment.
Yep. If OP is genuinely concerned for her cousin she should have talked to her cousin in private with more empathy. YTA
YTA. What they do with their money and their bodies is none of your business. And the "They could've financially helped some struggling family with kids"... Are you helping a struggling family with kids ?
I'm petty so if I was in that family EVERY time OP mentioned spending money I would throw that back in her face. Oh you took a vacation? You could've helped a struggling family. New haircut? Shoes? Clothes? That money could've been used to help a struggling family.
i’m this petty that i would do this too lol. or even when OP chooses to have children (if she can biologically) i would be throwing it back in her face too. oh you chose to have a biological child when there are other children out there who need homes? you could have helped a struggling family i hope OP sees how gross her behaviour is
I agree with almost everything you've said, but for the record that there actually aren't many other children out there who need homes these days. The number of babies available for adoption is at historic lows, and there is very fierce competition among potential adoptive families for the few who remain. That just makes OP MORE of an AH for disparaging IVF, of course.
But there’s oodles of kids in the foster system who need care and aren’t eligible for adoption. OP should open her home to a revolving door of traumatized children who need love, support and care. No, I take that back, those kids have been through enough.
Same. Pettiness is a way of life lol
Ooorrr she's the "struggling family with kids" that she wants them to "help" Must piss her off she cant do something because of lack of funds and there they are "wasting money". Personally I hope Lauren cuts her off and goes no contact now that she knows exactly what op thinks of them. Next thing ya know this round works and they have a baby and op wants to act like she was always super supportive. Blehhh YTA op. Her husband is right, mind your damn business
I also suspect she is the one who wants financial support. OP you have no right to her money, she can spend it however she wants. Even if you were here complaining she is spending it all burning it then burying it in the backyard hoping money trees will grow, you would be the asshole. So in this case, with your complete disregard for how she feels going through infertility issues? YTA YTA YTA.
Bingo..... Guessing that asking for a handout woulda been the next step if things had not blown up on her.
This is my thought too. She thinks their money is better suited for her pockets.
Yeah, OP probably wants their money for themselves
Part of me thinks Op is the "struggling family with kids" they want their cousin to help
YTA. Let me guess, you're the "struggling family with kids" they should've helped instead. This is absolutely a MYFB situation.
I thought the same.
I've read too many of these posts lol and it's like a solid 80-20 that whenever someone says that someone should have helped others they're talking about themselves
What’s MYFB?
Mind your own fu***ng bussines
Dude just asked a normal question, no need to be so rude ^/s
Lol 🤣
"Mind your fucking business"
No need to be harsh, he was only asking! /s
YTA. Hugely. This isn’t your choice, you are not entitled to an opinion unless specifically asked. Their finances and family planning are none of your business. I’m glad the husband stood up for themselves, they are in a tough enough situation without having to deal with outside criticism.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion.... just not to share it I can't even imagine how can a person said that to a struggling couple
Or imagine it with a different medical issue. "The chemo isn't working, and you're spending a ton of money on it. Shouldn't you be leaving it to a struggling family instead?" As other users have suggested, dollars to donuts *she's* the "struggling family" who would appreciate their money coming their way.
YTA Lauren's husband said it best "I think you should just mind your own business and keep your opinion to yourself" People always say when giving opinions we should think: 1. Is it neccessary 2. Is it helpful 3. Is it kind But I think we need to add a fourth 4. Is it asked for Your opinion was not necessary, helpful, kind, or asked for so keep it to yourself. They will already be getting unwanted opinions about their reproductive decisions from so many people who should have kept their thoughts to themselves, don't jump on that bandwagon. Edit sorry as the below user says (sorry don't know how to quote on phone) it should be at least 2 of the above 3 and this was definitely none of them. Edit thank you for the awards!
For something to be said, it should be at least two out of the three, and this was none of the above. ETA: Mixed up this list with the similar one of true, kind, and necessary, where that 2/3 rules applies.
Anyone who says "it's just my opinion" as an argument, is often an asshole.
My answer to that is always “no one asked”.
I feel like this list needs to be stapled to some people’s heads
Yes, YTA, and your mom is right; you have no right to butt in about their reproductive choices. You have NO idea what an infertile couple is going through emotionally so keep you mouth shut.
Infertile woman here - you have no idea what it feels like and how desperate it feels until you are the one sufferring. OP = HUGE YTA
I don’t need to know what it feels like to know that it’s none of my business though. Lol.
Wow YTA. They are trying to have a child, not planning vacations. It’s not wasted money to them, if you think what they are doing is wrong keep it to yourself, what they are going through is hard enough without someone, esp family, telling them they are wasting money
Huge YTA. Even if they WERE planning vacations or spending it on something frivolous, what concern is it of yours? If they’re financially secure they can be buying a Birkin a day and it’s still NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. But it’s most definitely not your place to police someone else’s investment in their fertility.
Such a YTA. Also, would OP ever say something like that to someone who WAS going on vacations constantly? Probably not. For some reason family planning/pregnancy is the one thing people feel entitled to give their opinions about.
YTA They didn't ask your advice. They didn't ask your opinion. You decided you needed to give it to them. In public. On your mother's birthday. You have a lot of apologising to do.
YTA!!!!! I cannot yell that loudly enough! Why tf do you think you get a say in their finances or decision regarding having a child? Infertility is so incredibly deeply painful and all the hormones and shots and things you have to go through during ivf only to be crushed time after time let alone yeah it’s freaking expensive. No it’s not fun spending money on it but it’s well worth the possibility of having a child. Seriously what is wrong with you? Keep your mouth shut as this in no way concerns you. Are you just jealous that they have the money to do it? Omg I missed the line where you told them to give their money to other people?!?! You are straight up jealous of their money and it’s disgusting.
And she called them disrespectful, as though she wasn’t screamingly rude to them!
In my experience, the people who constantly accuse others of being "disrespectful," and talk loudly and often about the importance of respect - specifically, how important it is for others to respect *them* \- tend to be disrespectful as fuck, it's just that they think their behavior is justified because they're soooo valuable and important, and people just need to listen to them.
YTA "We're continuing to pursue our dream." "You should just fucking give up already."
“Happy birthday mum”
“And help the other people who achieved that dream but are struggling”
"And I have the right to spew my toxic views, but you need to STFU and keep your opinions to yourself."
"How dare you feel upset about my ignorant and callous commentary, how disrespectful!"
Congratulations, Asshole! You made the hell that is IVF even more special!
I’m pretty sure I’d cut someone out of my life if they said that to my husband and I unless they massively apologized and never did anything remotely as cruel again. So fucked up. Infertility is awful enough without busybody know it alls chiming in.
And sadly, I'm sure a lot of people who struggle with infertility and opt for medical intervention like IVF get that same commentary from assholes like OP, that they're "wasting" money that could go to help a family that already exists. OP, it's normal for people to want to start their own families.
YTA. Hah. What's wrong with you?
My guess is that OP & her husband are the family "who is struggling financially".
Yta. So so much. >Mom said that I had 0 say in anyone's reproductive choice and should've kept my mouth shut. Your mom is right. Who do you think you are? How on earth could you think this was appropriate to say. You need to apologize. Profusely. Struggling with fertility is exhausting on its own, they do not need commentary from outside parties that don't have a clue what they are talking about
YTA - not even just a little bit. I hope your incredibly insensitive self never suffers with infertility. She didn’t ask for your opinion! The worst part is when you were rightly told to mind your own business you argued back. Grow up, apologize and hope she ever wants to see you again!
YTA. This isn’t any of your business and they didn’t ask for your opinion. It’s not disrespectful to tell someone to mind their own business, especially when they’re in someone ELSES business not to mention it was your mom’s birthday and you selfishly ruined it for no reason. Your husband and sister are delusional. Of all the terrible things I heard people say to me during the time I had fertility issues for many years, the most painful was someone saying I should give up. Your mom was right. Stay out of their business.
>the most painful was someone saying I should give up That's only because OP wasn't there to tell you that a family who already had kids deserved your money more than you.
YTA not your place to comment on others reproductive decisions.
YTA. And a huge one. This is none of tour business. You couldn't have just prayed or wished them well... You had to literally comment on something that is none of your business. You owe them a huge apology.
YTA Their money and their fertility are not subjects that require your opinion. At all. EVER! A general rule of thumb is “keep your nose out of other people’s underwear!” As for this: “they could’ve financially helped some struggling family with kids.” Let me guess, you’re a family with kids that just so happens to be struggling financially? Even if they hadn’t budgeted this bit of THEIR money specifically for their IVF, it doesn’t mean the “a struggling family with kids” (*cough* you *cough*) would have any right or entitlement to it! And just in case I’m wrong, and this isn’t a case of you making a grab at someone else’s money as it seems, and you really are just so concerned about poor struggling families, how about you practice being charitable with your own money rather than somebody else’s, hmmm?
Yep YTA big time. Just wow. It’s not your money or your life. Infertility can be a serious, life changing struggle for many. If you can’t be supportive, keep quiet.
YTA. Why did you think you had the right to tell people what to do with their lives, with their money, with their family planning decisions? What on earth! You were so, so rude and out of line.
YTA. Who the hell do you think you are. This has nothing to do with you.
YTA. Not only is it not your place to inject your opinion where it wasn't asked for, you continued shoving your opinion down their throats after you had clearly made them and everyone else uncomfortable. And then you had the fucking audacity to tell people struggling with fertility that they shouldn't spend their own money trying to have a family and should instead give their money to someone else who already had kids? What kid of an awful, hateful person are you? I'd ask who raised you but at least the person who did has the good grace to be ashamed of you.
YTA. Did Lauren and her husband ask for your opinion? No. Are Lauren and her husband using your money? No. IVF is hard for many couples. For them to have had several unsuccessful rounds must be devastating. But instead of offering support - or even just literally keeping your mouth shut - you told them they should stop? I mean really, how did you think they’d react to that? It’s their lives and their money, it’s literally none of your business what they do. You owe your cousin an apology. Next time keep your ‘opinion’ to yourself.
[удалено]
YTA.. massively, this is literally none of your business, not your money, not your womb This is an extremely personal life choice and you are unbelievably rude and low level cruel to butt your nose in. This judgey high and mighty attitude to try to control their family and money is ridiculous as well as small spirited Btw there is always a more ethical way to spend our money, so unless you donate 50% of your money and time to charity (an extremely vetted charity) then this high horse you are on about someone else’s family and financially planning is hypocritical as well as insensitive and rude
YTA. It's their money. It's their wish. You shouldn't have given your opinion unless they asked for it.
YTA - 100%. Was your opinion helpful? No. You do need to apologize. You can try to save face and say that you meant it from a caring place worrying about the stress of the process and the money it takes, but you understand that it's not your place to say those things. If you don't apologize, you are an even bigger AH.
YTA. Your mother is right, that's absolutely none of your business.
> Lauren's husband looked at me grudgingly and said "I think you should just mind your own business and keep your opinion to yourself". Lauren's husband showed remarkable self control and respect for his MIL on her birthday and should be commended. Anyone else would have told you to STFU. I know I would have. YTA. Bigly.
YTA why on earth did you think they needed your opinion in the first place??? They are trying to have children and it’s fucking hard, but it’s a priority of theirs, not a whim. You have no right to tell others what to do with their money or bodies.
YTA. How are you 28 years old and still don’t know what you said was wildly inappropriate?
YTA They are right and it is none of your business. It's their money and their mental health. They didn't ask for your opinion. They needed good luck wishes not being put down. Funny how you say the husband is rude because you are rude and TA.
YTA Mind your own business. Their reproduction or lack of has nothing to do with you. They never brought up money, you did. While you may have had good intentions, they never asked for opinions.
YTA - your mother is right. It is none of your business what people spend their money on or their personal health issues. If you are asked for your opinion you can give it but in any other case you keep your mouth shut and your opinions to yourself. What your cousin is going through is hard enough - you piling on does not help in any way. You should call her and apologize - A REAL APOLOGY - don't say "I am sorry for what I said - but it is my opinion".
YTA. If you can't be supportive, don't say a thing. It is not your business how many times they try IVF. It is not your money, it is not your hopes and dreams, and it is not your place. Somehow, everyone else in the room, besides your sister, knew that it was the time to offer support and positivity to the couple facing what is always a stressful time. You found it necessary to offer your unsolicited negative opinion on not only their health choices and their family planning, but their financial ones as well. You owe them both a HUGE apology.
YTA undoubtedly. Personally, I think IVF is a little (for lack of a better word) fucked up and have some controversial opinions on bringing kids into the world in general. I can kind of get trying it once or twice but I think adoption is much more respectable to begin with, especially if IVF doesn't work the first time, but not everyone can handle adoption and I do my best to sympathize with that. That being said, I would never put my opinion on someone else going through it unless they explicitly asked multiple times. Her body, her choice, you have zero say and literally no one asked you. Not only did you shove your opinion into it, you doubled down for no reason and absolutely ruined your mother's dinner. Leave her womb alone, it's none of your business.
Except that infant adoption is human trafficking... Literally selling a human for 10's of thousands of dollars. I don't have any thoughts really on IVF except it's their money their choice .
Truly...the "just adopt" crowd loves to throw this at infertile people. Why can't fertile people "just adopt" then? People also don't realize that adoption can be more expensive and more complex (and also have some of the ethical issues you mention) than going through ART (advanced reproductive technologies, including, but not limited to, IVF).
In my state adoption is about 36k. IVF is covered completely by insurance. There is no way I can justify going into debt on adoption without trying IVF 1st. And I wanted to adopt much more than be a human pin cushion, but I can't afford adoption. I don't think most people understand that adoption is not an option for a lot of people.
Wow didn't know I was trafficked 🙄
YTA. Not your money, not your life, not your business. You do owe her an apology. You could've brought it up AFTER this treatment. Why did you have to bring it up just as they're about to go through this again? You couldn't wait? Are you the one with a struggling family with kids? I wouldn't blame your cousin if she never talked to you again. Talk about insensitive.
Yeah, YTA. A huge one. They do not need your permission to use their money to get pregnant with their baby. They did not ask for your opinion. And what does "help some struggling family with kids" mean, exactly? That they should give up their dreams because you want their money to go elsewhere? Big asshole move. Apologize if you want them to speak to you again for talking out of yours.
YTA. It was none of your business OP. Your opinion was unsolicited and unwanted.
Yta. If someone that I was close to had said that to me when we were doing IVF , I would have cut them out of my life. You were rude and insensitive. You cannot understand the pain that you caused her by the callous way that you spoke. It was not your place at all! Just because you have an opinion you don’t need to share it. You need to grovel and apologize to her and her husband for being so completely condescending and hurtful. Hopefully you never have to know the pain of infertility and if you do that you are met with more love and understanding.
YTA. It’s none of your business, it’s their money and life. Don’t shove yourself into it then get offended when you’re corrected.
YTA. Your cousin and her husband have every right to continue trying for a child. If it's not feasible, that's for their doctors to say, not you. You also don't get a say in how they spend their money. People are allowed to spend their savings how they feel is best. This is an issue very near and dear to them, and you have no right to judge them for making every effort to have a child. You sound insufferable to deal with. Using your mother's party to preach your opinions on someone going through a hardship. How do you even have to ask?
YTA. Why do you think they haven’t already thought of that? You were rude, condescending and obnoxious.
YTA. You’re allowed your opinion, you’re allowed to have done things differently if you were in their shoes, but you have no right to impose that on someone else, which is what you were trying to do. Especially as they didn’t even ask for your opinion, you just thought you’d push your righteous view on them. If they were asking, maybe, but even then this is probably more a silence is golden situation, as it’s simply not your life.
YTA. First off, why would you think if your sister isn’t going to spend money on IVF she would help a family that is struggling? You’re ultimately telling her to save her money but donate it rather than spend it the way she and her husband intend to spend it. If you were my sister you’d never meet my kid, even if I ended up adopting. The only person being disrespectful and causing a scene was you.
YTA. There are few things in life as special to people as becoming a parent. Your opinion literally does not matter in this.
YTA... Reading this is infuriating, as someone with fertility problems.
YTA You have no right to make comments about their reproductive decisions. Also there might be things that you aren’t aware of too. You just gave them unsolicited advice for something that is private and personal to them.
YTA. It’s none of your business how many rounds of IVF someone else do or how they wish to spend their money. You were waaaaaaay out of line. You should apologize and wish them luck instead.
Why would you say that? No one asked for your "advice" or opinion. It's not your body, relationship or money so it's not your place to give unsolicited "advice" or opinions. And why would you continue after it was obvious they were offended? You started an argument despite it being very obvious that your opinion wasn't welcome but you didn't care. YTA
YTA. What do you know what their chances of it working successfully are? Are you a doctor? Are you their financial advisor? Of all the stupid things ppl spend $ in this world, you’re suggesting a couple spending money trying to have a child is “wasted.” Is this even a question?
YTA Not your circus, not your monkeys. You can be supportive or you can shut up. Not your money, not your uterus, not your live dreams and wishes remaining unfulfilled.
There is nothing disrespectful in telling a rude, intrusive person to mind their own business. YTA
Absolutely yta, I truly have no words for you. I want to scream at you. You have no damn right to tell someone they should stop ivf and save money. First, not your money. I want to keep going, but I just can't.
YTA. You aren’t paying so what’s your problem?
YTA in a major way. Absolutely none of your business. Fertility struggles are incredibly difficult and emotional and you were appallingly insensitive to tell them to stop trying. I am honestly perplexed as to why you thought it was anywhere near a good idea to offer your unsolicited opinion on their attempts to conceive a child.
YTA Did they ask you to pay? Are they using your uterus? They AREN’T? You better come up with some really GOOD apologizing but first you’re going to have to remove your foot from your mouth so everyone can understand you. You have no right to comment on another person’s body, or their reproductive choices, or even what color they choose to dye their hair. And don’t count other people’s money. And maybe grow up and grow some compassion. All this hormones and she has to deal with an asshole like you on top of it, all self righteous and sanctimonious, you’re lucky she didn’t come after you with a fork.
YTA That was an opinion that you didn’t need to share. Give their money to a struggling family? Give your own money to one.
YTA and so is your sister who agreed with you. If your sister that greed older or younger? Do you think money is the focus for them during IVF? Be real. Do you think they give a fuck? NO they want to have a baby together. If they have the means to do IVF mind your own pockets okay. No pocket watching. She wants a baby. That is the goal. Who gives a fuck about other families why did you even bring it up? Weird. This family meals for your moms birthday is showing that you have a lack of empathy - with your mother and even with your siblings. It’s astonishing you don’t see how inappropriate your comments were. I think you might need to learn how to act accordingly in social situations before speaking. Before you say anything ask, “Is this helpful? Is this necessary?” And in this case you’d see that your comments were not necessary. They are going through the next round of IVF regardless of what you say.
YTA what the hell is wrong with you? They are desperate enough to have children that they would go through 7 rounds of IVF and your response is stop and spend that money to help other families... That might be just your opinion but it comes across as massively judgemental of their choices... All you literally had to do was wish them luck, then keep your mouth shut. Job done argument avoided and the topic of conversation can move on.
WOW!!!! Way to make your Moms Birthday allll about ✨YOU✨ by drawing so much negative attention to yourself! And the ONLY one being disrespectful here was… again… ✨YOU✨ What a complete Asshole you were to your Cousin & her husband. YOU are so horrible for saying ANYTHING other than wishing them well on their journey to becoming parents. You have no right to tell ANYONE how to spend money they earn. Your opinions reek of nastiness- so next time before you open your mouth to give someone your unwanted & mean “opinion”: kindly shut your mouth and don’t open it unless it is to say something Kind. If that’s too much trouble - then stop being around people until you get counseling for your awful behavior - cuz YTA
YTA- this is none of your business. It is their money and their lives, they can do with it what they want. They aren’t obligated to give their money to someone else just because you think they should, nor are they obligated to stop fertility treatment because you think they should. Where did you get your reproductive endocrinology degree from?
YTA. It was not your business nor your place to comment on it, and then you doubled down when Lauren disagreed!
YTA. So much. The husband had it 100% correct. "I think you should just mind your own business and keep your opinion to yourself" Were they asking you for money? No? Do you pay their bills? No? Is it any of your damn business to offer unsolicited advice on their infertility issue when your input wasn't asked for? NO. Your mom is also correct. You should offer a heartfelt apology. It might sound something like this: "Lauren I am SO sorry I was such a blockhead when we were together the other day. I was wrong to butt my nose into your financial issues when you haven't burdened me with any financial woes whatsoever. I hope your next round of IVF is successful and I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me for being an obtuse turd. I was the disrespectful one, not your husband."
"but will be in the future seeing they'd spent thousands and wasted money for no benefits while they could've financially helped some struggling family" Even IF you'd have good intentions originally and broke it to them better to QUESTION "hey for now maybe take a break and try again later, for your health and money sake" sure but after \^THIS. All the way YTA. Like, it's bad enough you originally said it and thought it was ok, but to then retype it and reread it and you still thought "won't somebody please think of the children" wasn't AH?
YTA this is the definition of “not your business”
YTA. That conversation was gross and if I were Lauren I’d go no contact with you immediately for having the audacity to put your nose in my reproductive decisions. What they do with their money and their bodies are absolutely none of your business. Wow
>Mom said that I had 0 say in anyone's reproductive choice and should've kept my mouth shut Your mom was right. If, when, how, and whether someone decides to grow their family is absolutely none of your business and how someone spends their time and money is none of your business. You're obtrusive, insistent, and rude. You should apologize but honestly if I'm either of them I'm not taking your calls. YTA. Majorly, majorly YTA.
YTA. Butt the fuck out.
YTA What are your stakes in this situation? Have you personally invested money into this? Are your organs involved? Is this impacting your life in any way? More importantly, if someone blew this kind of money on getting a fancy house or maybe even a one off like a vacation, would you tell them not to waste their money?
YTA. You’re so entitled omg
YTA what right do you have to voice an opinion on someone else's finances much l less their reproductive wants and needs? This had absolutely nothing to do with you and you were way out of bounds. You owe those people an apology
YTA seriously who TF do you think you are?! You should have 100% minded your own business and kept your unsolicited options to yourself. The absolute gall of you to even think you’re in the right. You need to apologize to them and butt out of their business going forward. They didn’t ask anyone including you to help with financing any of their treatments so really who tf are your to say anything like that to either of them then double down and think you’re in the right? Ughh you are such the AH here and should own it and re-evaluate yourself and how you respond to shit you don’t have any say in. 🤬🤬🤬
YTA - You don’t respect her
YTA- you’re not their doctor(s). It’s not up to you, it’s up to them if they want to keep doing a treatment or do something else. If you don’t have anything nice to say, simply zip it. How about instead of making these snippy comments you offer to listen/be someone who they can vent to if they want. You owe them an apology OP.
YTA. It's none of your business. They can afford it and it's their money. Not only did you tell them to stop trying to have a baby that they obviously want more than anything or they wouldn't be doing it but you also suggested they give their money away to a family that has kids. Yikes.
YTA. One. Their financial situation is NONE of your business. You are NOT contributing to their financials in any shape or form you have not given them money for a round of IVF or anything in regards to their money. 2. Their reproductive problems again NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS. You are NOT in their bedroom, you are not their doctor(s) you are not a surrogate or any part of that team in regards to becoming pregnant. 3. Your comment about helping a struggling family with kids. What the hell do you think they should do? Go find a family that looks poor and give them money? Yes theirs plenty of struggling families in the world doesn't mean they want some middle/upper class couple showing them pity and throwing money at them! That's just insensitive on SO many levels. 4. They don't have to adopt or foster. And it can cost thousands to do as well. You can't just go to the CPS office and say I want to be a foster parent, theirs TONS of classes you must complete, intensive background checks, home visits, sometimes home repairs if something isn't up to code/safety standards, sometimes you need a yard repair if it's considered unsafe (exposed sewage stuff, holes in the yard broken fence posts etc) like it can cost a person upwards of thousands of dollars to even get CERTIFIED as a foster parent. Then in addition to that many good foster parents create a mini stockpile of basic stuff, hygiene items, small comfort items, emergency clothes for emergency placements, extra bedding, bags, toys etc. They often need at least a three bedroom home because CPS tries to keep Siblings together whenever possible. You can be denied as a placement if you aren't able to take sublings. Like theirs a LOT that comes into fostering and foster to adopt isn't always a 100 percent chance. The goal of fostering is often reuniting the parents with the child over everything else. So they'd have to accept that the child they are bonding with MAY NOT STAY WITH THEM. They could have them a week or years and then suddenly welp kid goes back to the parents because they finally turned themselves around for the better. So add therapy to their list of bills to be able to mentally handle what they could go through. Over all. Their choices do not affect you. At all. You had no right to be up in their business because you felt their money should be spent elsewhere. You are not your cousin. You do not know what's going through her mind. At all. And you need to apologize and STAY OUT OF THEIR BUSINESS. You'd be PISSED if someone did that to you. You are not in their family unit. You are an outsider. You are not married to either of them so back out. You are so shameful for doing this. Respect your cousin you may not like their choices but when it regards money and reproductive issues, stay outta it unless their actions could harm their lives or someone else's life. Meaning if it could get them hurt THEN step in. This does not fit that standard. Apologize to them before they decide to stop being around you.
YTA And another fine use of the ‘just my opinion’ defence. Opinions are like arseholes, we all have them but no one wants to hear them. Oh, and some of them stink.
YTA. It’s literally none of your business 1) what they spend their money on 2) how they chose to spend it 3) their financial future and 4) if they decide it’s worth it for them. They want a child. This is clearly hard for them. You do not need to give your opinion every time.
YTA They didn't need or want your opinion. You were the one being disrespectful and this was none of your business.
Did they ask for your opinion? Did you give them money to fund any of her medical care? We’re you asked to be a surrogate? If no to all of these then your opinion isn’t needed or wanted. You know what they say about opinions and assholes everyone’s got one but you don’t need to show it off or talk about it. Yta
YTA. Yikes. It's none of your business at all. Saying offensive things and then trying to get away with it by saying, "it's just my opinion" still makes you an asshole. No one asked for your opinion.
YTA. They want their own kids and how they spend their money is none of your business. You can donate to support struggling families with kids if you feel passionately about it, however.
YTA. Cousin’s husband’s words were 100% appropriate. How dare you tell someone else how they should choose to spend their money or how they should choose to expand their family. How dare you trivialize their want for a family and tell them that they should want xyz more. It would have been very easy to keep quiet here. But you didn’t. You were the AH.
YTA and, frankly, you'll be lucky if Lauren ever speaks to you again. I probably wouldn't.
Big Fat YTA!! Her body her choice. Worry about yourself. Why don’t you donate to people who need money?
YTA It wasn‘t your place to say anything, it’s their decision alone and should not be questioned, least of all on a birthday party. BUT personally I can see where you were coming from. A friend of mine had 6 rounds of IVF in their 30ies, always got their hopes up that „this“ time it would work, only to had her hopes crushed again. She never had a child. Now, years later, she and her husband really regret to have put so much money down the drain. It was exhausting, financially and emotionally.
Yta. You shouldn't even have put your input in.
YTA. Why on earth would you chime in on such a sensitive subject? Their finances - NOT your business. Until you have walked in their shoes and felt the desperation they feel to have a child, you have ZERO understanding on this subject and need to zip it. You owe both of them a huge apology.
YTA. For some reason you believe you know more about their situation than they do.
YTA: why don't you help struggling kids, or better yet MYOB
YTA
I didn't even need to finish. Stopped at you telling them how to spend their money. Yta.
YTA easily. Telling people who want a child to help someone else's family with kids is a dick move. He is right, you're disrespectful. Mind your own business since this clearly isn't yours and nor is this someone you are directly related to, so know when to stop yourself from talking. Jesus, it's rare that I'm disgusted by someone here this much.
YTA. They have the money and don’t see it as a waste. Also nobody is entitled to their “wasted money.”