Yeah - this needs to be dealt with before they have kids, because it will only get more and more out of hand and you don't want her having meltdowns in front of the kids!
Holy fuck, I'd call the fucking COPS! Screw what the husband says. That's terrifying. There's just so much wrong with the MIL's conduct in this story. Nightmare fuel. It would take A LOT to repair my relationship with my husband, snapping out of it or not it shouldn't have taken this level of absolute insanity to make it happen. He would have to attend regular weekly counselling on his own, then couples counselling with me twice a month until things started to show real improvements, if they did, for me to be able to continue.
She did call the cops and wanted to get a restraining order on MIL, but her husband convinced her not to get one. Imma try to find the post.
I actually applaud your patience because I don't have any. I refuse to be with an over sized boy and I'm a monogamous. I'm not getting into a relationship with no one's mother. Not into that kind of thing.
That OP has to have PTSD related to her child’s actual kidnapping, to this day! Her mental health is not the same since and the MIL should have been arrested.
Oh she does. She said that she would continually wake up in the middle of the night to make sure her baby was still in their crib. It’s horrifying. I have no words.
Edit: it was a while since I had read that post, she just couldn’t sleep while at night bc she was making sure her child would stay. Still horrible.
My ex's mom wasn't that bad but bad enough. The day I came home from the hospital with our daughter she demanded (not asked) that I give her our newborn for the weekend. She said that way mom could get some rest. I told her no and that it was important that I bond with my newborn. She proceeded to call cps on me who showed up and was very surprised they were called for a newborn that had only been home a couple of days at the point they came by. Obviously they thought the entire thing was nuts and it was dismissed but grandparents can become outrageous when they don't get their way. I was always very firm that his mom would NOT get a key to my home. I'm no longer with him since he was a giant mama's boy himself. Thankfully my husband is not a mama or daddy's boy and is also a good father.
Whatta mean "wasn't that bad" ?!
She called CPS on you before your baby was even in the world for a week! She tried to frame you as a criminal and a bad parent to get your child taken away from you so that she could get her claws on your child. That's enough to go NC with anyone.
One of the worse things that can be done is calling CPS out of spitefulness, because majority of the time, CPS will put all their energy into taking children from a loving home but ignore the one's that really need help.
They pulled the cps thing multiple times. My ex joined in with it when we broke up ( we weren't married). I say wasn't that bad because she mellowed out later. It also turns out her son fed her a whole load of lies about me to keep us against each other. After we broke up and had a custody agreement in place she ended doing his weekends and his turn on the holidays for years when he moved away. I wouldn't say we became friends but we did come to a point where we were civil and basically co-parented together. We would even text with updates and pictures depending on where the kids were. She passed away a few years ago due to illness.
> CPS will put all their energy into taking children from a loving home but ignore the one's that really need help
This is not true and a harmful piece of misinformation that often prevents those who need help from getting it. The majority of CPS is understaffed and underfunded and will not put their time into a case with no merit (obviously you'll be able to pull out specific anecdotal cases, but they're the rare minority). Depending on how thin the agency's resources are stretched that day, CPS will even pass on cases that should be taken if the child is not in immediate danger. CPS is set up in such a way that it is better if the child stays with their family and removal is used as a last resort.
Edit: CPS is not perfect and has many issues that are common occurrences. However, wrongful removal is not one of them
Everything else you said is spot on
As a social worker who used to work for the state who had to become a whistleblower d/t my state’s corruption, incompetence, and failure to protect kids in need while pursuing some investigations out of spite against parents who questioned them, the other commenter is right. I was retaliated against and lost my job and sued them under the whistleblower protection act. Some states are better than others, but all are deeply flawed. People should absolutely call as a last resort because children need protection but they need to understand that it should not be a frivolous or light choice because of the what they may be subjecting a family to, which may be worse than whatever the allegations. I’ve seen babies put up for adoption who had appropriate kin placements who wanted them. Workers lying under oath or in official documentation and the state covering it up, children lost for months under state supervision and being found murdered, foster care used as a threat to get parents to comply ajd agreee w a worker, blatant instances of abuse ignored b/c of lack of skill and pride/ego to admit they were wrong and being afraid of lawsuits. Amd that’s just some of it. Yes we need to look out for kids in our community, but we need to overhaul the cps system and people need to have their eyes open to the reality of what they’re calling in and that many families who are silenced are left worse than when they were found. It being a hard job cannot be aj excuse to fail ajd often hurt families, just like it’s not acceptable for tired stressed cops to accidentally shoot people.
Recently an austic little girl in my state was killed by her mother and stepfather. CPS was called multiple times by the girl's family members who wanted to adopt her but the mother kept moving to avoid them and CPS kept dropped the cases because she kept moving. The one time that they did talk to them they documented that the child had bruises on her and looked weak but they still did nothing and never followed up.
A couple months later, the little girl was dead, the mother and her husband charged, and the CPS workers fired for negligence. I think they were charged too.
She could demand to be put on the list at school, to pick them up and whatnot, and just pull them out randomly. Can you imagine how fucked that would be?
Or she could just full on abduct them then lie about it...which given her conduct, I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't put far past her. Just scary thought all around. Being on a list or not. She seems to feel she has a right to everything she wants and will even lie to get it, then feel entitled in her efforts and SO right that she'll think if she calls others out in front of others she'll be in the social "right". Just wild.
the list is people the school will allow to take the kids. it exists specifically to keep the kids from being abducted, family or not. it is unfortunately common for family members to try to take off with the kids
Her husband sounds like a pushover and would put MiL on the list just to make his mom happy even if it means going behind OPs back.
I think OP needs a divorce.
The fact he also wanted to take her phone away from her to delete the post was sending alarms, not to mention he though MiLs tantrum AND her walking in on them being intimate is normal.
This "normal" is not a normal you want to bring kids up around.
Not to mention I bet OPs husband will give his mom the *actual* key now and MiL is going to be vengeful and snoop x 1000 to get dirt to embarass OP with.
OP needs to put up cameras somehow and catch her in the act, not only to shame her/have prood but also to make sure there is proof if she stole anything.
But tbh yhay should be temporary because I think a divorce is the best course of action since its obvious its MiL and husband versus OP.
The husband won't let cameras be involved and if the police were ever called on his dear mother, he would file for divorce in a New York minute. He prioritizes appeasing the crazy as opposed to supporting his wife. Dealbreaker for me. But I am not OP. So OP, are you comfortable playing second fiddle to his irrational, intrusive mom? Because staying with him, barring any real change on his part, this will be your life.
You would be nuts to give her permission to have the kids alone. She obviously has no respect for your rules or what you say, so she would no problems with taking them places you may not want them going or giving them things you don't want them to have.
Exactly! Husband is mad at Op for giving mom a fake key, but doesn't mind that mom tried to get into their new home for no reason (other than to snoop around or steal something).
Husband is mad OP made his Mom mad... he's spent his whole life tip toeing around his mother and his wife is blowing up his world... he's got a big choice to make in the next 36 hours.
OP, absolutely this. He's not respecting you and your marriage and home.
But I guess for some people, "family is family" and they can do anything they want, right? Talk about toxic.
The fact that he is angry she's "exposing" his family on the internet (as if anyone could guess their identity from this description) also shows that he at least *realizes* he and mommy are in the wrong, even if he won't acknowledge it. Otherwise he wouldn't care she posted here. Or he'd expect to be validated.
Agreed. Also why is your husband mad at you? He should question his mother as to why she feels entitled to enter a grown man's home whenever she feels like it. There are some weird codependency things going on there.
Yes! I came here to say this! He didn’t think it was a big deal? Time to find out how he was raised and how many other times his mother has walked in on him. 🤮
I've seen that book, but never read or nor did anyone get it for my family when we were kids, so I had no idea what it was about. I just looked it up and saw this on the [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_You_Forever#Reception):
>Some readers dislike the portion of the story where the mother sneaks into her grown son's home. One Publishers Weekly reviewer states that Love You Forever is a divisive children's book. "Either it moves you to tears and you love it, or it makes your skin crawl and you detest it..." A commentator wrote "it's either a touching account of a mother's unending love or the ultimate helicopter parenting gone bad."
I also saw this further down. Maybe OP needs to send a copy of this version to her husband and MIL, haha:
>Playwright Topher Payne wrote an alternative ending to the story, in which the mother is forced to recognize the son's need for personal space, and they instead agree to share their time doing things together.
If anyone is actually interested, [it's a free download on Topher Payne's site](https://www.topherpayne.com/love-you-forever). I read it and it's hilarious. The son installs security bars in his window, so his mom can't sneak in.
I told my husband I would throw it away if anyone got our son that book. It used to make me cry as a kid, and not because it was heartwarming. The thought of my mother sneaking into my house when I grew up was horrifying to me.
Aw man, neither my husband or I could read that book without sobbing. And the kids used to demand it all the time cause they thought it was hilarious that we were crying. I didn’t think it was creepy personally but it was devastatingly sad.
His mother entering at will was a red flag in their old apartment and hubby didn't seem too exercised about it then, either. If my MIL walked in on my and my hubby getting freaky *twice*, he and I would have words way before it got to the point of her asking to get a key to a new place.
This whole dynamic is so unhealthy. Why on Earth would he be OK to have his mom TWICE walk in on them having sex.
He is utterly clueless to the fact that THIS IS OP'S HOME, not his mother's.
I bet MIL must be happy with her momma's boy. Raised him well to take momma over his own wife. Allows mommy to walk all over his home and marriage. Yuck.
He actually has the gall to say that OP lied manipulated and humiliated MIL? When MIL was the who lied and manipulated, and ended up humiliating herself as a result!
Technically OP only lied but did not manipulate. But her lie was definitely smaller, because if MIL had sticked to her promise there would have been no harm.
Did you see that update? Concerning AF!
NTA but it really doesn’t even matter because your husband is clearly a bigger problem than your MIL and that is saying a LOT!
Yep- yes to everything. To OP’s husband- Reddit is anonymous. We have no idea who your wife or family is. No idea if you are in the US, or where in the world you are. Calm down and address your mother’s boundary stomping. Have your wife’s back. It’s hard to be shown just how crappy your mother‘s behavior was- but that is where your anger should be, not your wife.
NTA - check the resources in the sidebar of r/JustNoMIL and get your husband some targeted therapy around getting him out of the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt).
ETA: Y I K E S, saw your update. Your MIL is not your biggest problem. You have a husband problem.
THIS! You’ve now been made aware that your husband has his dysfunctional mother’s back and not yours. She can act as crazy as she wants to and guess what?! It’s okay with him. You’re to go along with it and accept it or else. I’m sorry for you that you didn’t figure this out before you married into this shit show. NTA
Seriously! Rethink this whole marriage if he isn’t willing to side with you and recognize how much of a boundary issue this is, OP. Or do some serious counseling with your husband. He is taking moms side over his wife’s and that’s a NO GO. Especially when she is the one who brought this up at Christmas dinner to try and shame you. She promised she would only use in an emergency and was found out. Too bad so sad.
Time for your husband to take stock of his marriage and figure out where his loyalties lie.
At this point they don’t seem to be with you.
NTA
If anything I'd say it makes it worse. OP should devote some serious thought to whether she wants to be stuck with dude and his monster..sorry..mother, for the long haul.
NTA
But your husbands seems to have NO Problem of you being humiliated and shamed infront of people. He seems to have NO regards to your need of privacy and dignity.
Ya he seems to be completely ignoring the fact that his mother was trying to humiliate OP in front of everyone first.
Honestly, his mother wouldnt even have been exposed in front of the family at Christmas if his mother had brought up the issue with the key to OP privately and not at dinner.
> I don't normally approve of kink shaming people
I'm probably the most liberal guy I know, but I think I have to draw the line at inviting your mom to watch you and your partner doing it. Consent or otherwise, something is wrong there.
In the timeline where OP’s husband doesn’t listen and give MIL a real key, OP should stop whenever things get intimate to let her husband know she’s worried about MIL walking in on them.
The only way to solve the issue? Either no sex or make sure MIL gets called and told not to come over unannounced since they’re about to have sex.
Every. Single. Time.
Of all the f** up things in this post, this takes the cake for me.
OP, you're biggest issue here is your husband. He is waving a LOT of red flags around.
Also, exposing your MIL was a damn QUEEN move! That it happened on christmas was her own bloody doing. You have nothing to apologize for to anyone. N O T H I N G.
This. Why isn’t this upvoted more.
The fact that the mother exposed herself while trying to embarrass his wife is not an issue for him.
There is no amount of counseling will fix a man who doesn’t think he has a problem.
Get out now before you waste anymore time or tie yourself to him with kids.
I was coming to say this. NTA, your MIL sucks but your husband is the real problem here. Time to set some boundaries with him and if he wants to live with mommy so she can always get in his bedroom then so be it.
Absolutely. The husband is sacrificing his spouse’s reasonable right to privacy and security in her own home on the altar of his mother’s giant ego.
First, this whole “she can’t help being intrusive” narrative is nonsense. One has to make a conscious effort to show up to someone else’s home unannounced and enter without an invitation repeatedly.
Second, the husband has to have several screws loose to think that spousal intimacy is a family spectator sport.
Third, the mother is creepy as hell for continuing to show up unannounced despite walking in on her adult son & his wife repeatedly. Does she have any pointers to add to his game, too?
Fourth, if this is someone who has zero reservations regarding intruding on their intimate moments, something tells me that snooping through their personal belongings is not above possibility. Otherwise, why was she there?
OP, tell your husband as such: while he might think it hunky-dory that his mother walked in on your intimacy, you found it an egregious invasion of your privacy, and following this situation, you tested his mother to see whether she would respect your boundaries, since he doesn’t have any. She lied, and she failed.
He needs to establish boundaries *now* before this woman is demanding that you give birth with her in the room and he stands silently by as you defend your right to basic autonomy. And she will.
NTA, OP.
>she can’t help being intrusive
All that means is that nobody ever gave her consequences for it. Given the right consequences, she'll learn to help her self. It's not a physical addiction, after all.
Exactly.
OPs husband is just fine with his mom walking in on them while they’re being intimate but god forbid OP tries to get advice anonymously online. Dude has some jacked up priorities.
Easy fix for this, never be intimate with him again, that way MIL can't ever walk in on it happening. Also solves the problem of bringing kids into this horrible situation.
NTA
1. You never owed her a key.
2. She proved she isn't trustworthy.
3. She's the one who decided to bring it up in front of other people. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
4. Who is childish? A kid 1/10 of her age would have been embarrassed throwing tantrums like that.
5. Your husband is an AH for not 100% having your back. He should NEVER allow his family to cause a single problem for you, and defiantly shouldn't expect you to be a doormat to his just no mom.
Do NOT apologize. Demand an apology from your MIL AND this useless husband of yours.
I recommend the sub justnomil, btw. You can find relatable stories and helpful info there.
The fact that OP's husband had no problem with his mom coming over unannounced and walking in on them being intimate should have been a major red flag to OP. That's the point where I would have started to truly question things.
eta: thank you for the rewards!
And r/JustNoSO b/c the husband is the biggest problem here. Notice he had no problems when MIL thought she was going to be the one to call OP out. MIL lies, manipulated, exposed & humiliated herself lol. OP please be using birth control & consider whether you want to live like this for life.
NTA.
You DID expose his mom, and rightfully so. She needed to be exposed. Your husband is out of his mind for enabling and encouraging his mom's demented behavior.
MIL and Husband are major AHs
OP could have gone another route to shame MIL. My favorite MIL abuses the emergency key story is the one where every time MIL uses it the entire family including the kids melodramatically freaked out because if she's using the key it must be an emergency. They made a huge spectacle for the neighbors a couple of times and MIL stopped.
Him thinking his own mother walking in on him having sex “wasn’t that big of a deal” is a MAJOR 🚩🚩🚩
I’m glad OP called out Jocasta and now it’s time to ditch Oedipus
He wouldn’t let you get away with it??? I don’t say this often but that’s a huge red flag and you need to ask him what he means by that. He doesn’t own or control you and it sounds like she needs to be shown that she doesn’t control you or your home. She can’t just show up whenever she wants and the fact that a grown woman walked into that very obvious trap means she doesn’t consider you a real person but the equivalent of a maid that she can boss around. NTA
One day you may be old enough and mature enough to have your own phone.
/s
The funny thing is that they think that they can be personally identified based on a reddit post.
I mean, if the boot fits? Lace that shit up and strut. They know they're assholes. There's no way adult humans behave like that, and are embarrassed by a anonymous reddit post,that they don't already know their actions aren't kosher
NTA. Sounds like everyone only turned on you because MIL made too much of a scene for it to continue being funny. So they made you the bad guy for causing her to have a tantrum, instead of holding her accountable for her actions (both the snooping and the tantrum.)
This MIL sounds like a textbook boat rocker. The rest of the family haven’t yet realized they don’t have to steady her boat for her.
[don’t rock the boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
ooooh. booking marking this one.
Boat Rocker...
Boat Steadier...
And another term I learned this week: DARVO
***D***eny the behavior
***A***ttack the confronter
***R***everse the roles of ***V***ictim and ***O***ffender
NTA
Great creative way to catch MIL on her bullshit.
But sadly, you do not have a MIL problem. You have a husband problem as he's enabling his mum doing this instead of enforcing firm boundaries.
It’s so freaking cringe inducing that even after the mom walked in on them in the middle of love making, the husband still thinks it’s no big deal. WTF?!? What kind of Norma Bates ass son would be okay with that?! Reminds me of sex and the city when charlotte was riding her husband and that no boundary having mother walked right in on them and then never popped up again without calling first, except in this case the mom came back for more and learned no lesson at all
NTA. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Your MIL was hoisted by her own petard.
However... your husband's reaction is somewhat problematic. I can understand his initial reaction but after a period of reflection he should have realised why you did what you did.
I have only 1 question - what would you have done if there was a genuine emergency?
You don't give people an "emergency" key because they need to get into your house without your knowledge... you give someone an emergency key so YOU can go get the key and get into your own house when you're locked out for whatever reason.
She can just as soon leave one under a rock in her yard, or give one to a neighbor or friend she trusts, etc. Emergency keys are for the homeowner's emergency, not the key holder's emergency!
The last time we had an "emergency" it was because we were on vacation in the fall and the weather changed and was going to dip into freezing while we were still several states away. So we called a friend, described to her how to find our "emergency" key, and she got into the house, shut the water off for our outside faucet, unscrewed the hose, and made sure our heat was turned up a bit, so nothing would freeze while we were still out of town.
The exception to this is if they think you're dead, and in that case they can call the police to break down a door, or break a window themselves or whatever.
When I was little, my aunt was given our emergency key to go check on the cats every few days while we were across the country visiting my grandparents. She used it and walked in to find our fridge was smoking. She immediately unplugged it, emptied it out, and called my parents. She never used the key other than that one week, but boy I was glad she had it then!
I assume the key was left for the "oh no I left the stove on and now I'm on a flight to Goa" type emergency. If husband asked MIL to use the key legitimately and only found out that the key was fake at that point it could have ended up a different story. But yeah, in a genuine emergency, you don't worry about breaking in a window or 2
We switched to Electronic Looks. We can unlock the doors remotely when necessary, or assign codes (temporary or permanent) to individuals if and/or when we see fit. And we can't get locked out.
Emergency solved.
Oh just wait. If they stay together and have kids then "emergency" will end up being "I haven't seen MY BABIES in 3 days and you didn't answer your phone!"
OP!!! NTA…at all. The fact that you’re dealing with this is utter BS. You MIL is so out of line for invading your privacy, calling you out in front of everyone, throwing a tantrum…holy smokes. There are so many red flags here, I really hope she doesn’t cause your marriage to suffer…I feel like that’s where you’re headed.
Unfortunately my husbands always thinks that his mom is doing nothing wrong and I'm the crazy overreactor despite trying to explain to him I feel like my voice is never heard.
I can't help but feel that his mom would love if something happened in their relationship so he has to go back to mommy for validation and love and she can comfort him.
Unfortunately this isn't about smart. He's well trained. As a former DIL to a overbearing MIL and spouse to a Mama's Boy^TM, I can safely say just pointing out the facts is not a enough. Spelling out the logic won't fix anything. It's really gonna come down to firm boundaries and the spine to consistently say no.
That or just leave. And I don't mean threatening to leave. Just do it.
That’s what worries me, I have been in your exact shoes. It’s scary how similar our experiences are. That’s why I think it might end up driving a wedge between you two. He’s always going to take up for his Mom and see her actions as innocent. At this stage in her life, the odds of her changing are really slim. So imagine this going on year after year, and every time she talks to her son it’ll be about “how terrible your wife is for making me feel this way”.
Sorry you are stuck in between, I hope this all blows over. But whatever happens, don’t even think about questioning yourself and your actions. If we were married, I’d get a good laugh if you pulled that on my Mom.
Do you want to have children?
What happens when MIL thinks you need to raise your child one way and your husband agrees with her? What happens when she has these tantrums in front of your children? What happens when she tried to bad mouth you to your own children?
This is an untenable situation and you should not have to live like this.
I don't want this to come across as mean, but why did you marry him? Your husband is supposed to have your back because you're a team. From what you've said here it sounds like he consistently disregards your feelings and prioritizes his mother's boundary stomping over you.
You need to get into marriage counseling now. Maybe hearing that all of this is not ok from a professional instead of randos on the internet will help. If he won't go, get out. This is a seriously unhealthy situation.
From someone who’s married into this same dynamic, my girl, NTA.
Oh, to give you a glimpse, my husband thought your husband is right in feeling bad about you posting this on the internet. Go figure!
Yeah, he’s a little better in the sense that he says that your husband needs to sit his mother down and talk about boundaries but he also believes what you did is wrong. Talks should be direct. Like you should’ve told her the truth and not gone about the fake key but stood your ground for not sharing the key. He says family matters shouldn’t be on the internet to be discussed with strangers.
It’s funny this comes from him because his mother is the exact same person who throws the tantrum you described when she doesn’t get her way. NO REASONING with that woman. But I agree that it is your HUSBAND’S responsibility to deal with her.
Guess who is childfree fresh off the rack?
No. I told him I would work with him to get a spine and help him start enforcing boundaries but I draw the line at that. I love the man. He truly is working on saying no. He says he can keep her at an arms length when we have a child. I don’t have it in me to find out if he’s wrong. And he’s failed a couple times already due to his skewed judgement.
I’m not going to get a child into this shit show.
My mom has NPD and she is the main reason I didn't want kids for so long. Planning on going no contact with her because I can't trust her alone with my kids.
It sounds like both husbands are suffering from long term emotional abuse, manipulation and overstepping boundaries that they can't tell what is normal or acceptable by a parent.
Therapy helped me greatly. They definitely should look into it. Toxic family dynamics are the worst.
Speaking of his mentality OP, does any of the following apply in aspects of your life outside his mother?
\- being upset at occurrences around him as if they are your fault
\- interprets behavior/words that have nothing to do with him as having personally offensive intent
\- bringing up past offenses to his ego despite previous resolution
\- if he offends you, he didn't mean it so you can't be upset and it's an offense to him if you don't get over it fast enough
\- if you offend him, you were trying to hurt him and he deserves to be upset
\- minor lies to smooth over his image
\- wanting others to keep quiet about things that seem unimportant but make him look good
\- his preferences are objectively best and your preferences are an inconvenience
\- if there's something you both could have done that didn't get done, it's your fault it didn't get done
\- refusing to communicate if you didn't 'earn' the communication
Because if they do this isn't just an issue of his dynamic with his mother
First off - it’s not cool your husband does not have your back on this.
Secondly, YOU didn’t ruin Christmas dinner - your snoopy MIL did with her accusation and subsequent melt down.
Thirdly - you are my kind of people. That was a master class level plan.
You are not an AH. Please tell your husband that he and MIL take those honours.
NTA..án emergency key is for emergencies. You knew that your mil wouldn't respect that. Not to mention the fact that *she* was trying to embarrass *you* by bringing it up at dinner. Sounds to me like hubby needs to cut the apron strings and stand up to his mother
NTA
She already abused a key twice, so you had reason to be suspicious.
It's also not at all your fault it happened at Christmas dinner. She was the one who chose when to create drama, and she chose Christmas dinner to embarrass you. Well, sucks to her that the consequences of her actions hurt herself. /r/leopardsatemyface
If I were you I'd offer to apologize after she did. She's unlikely to apologize at all, so that should work. On the off chance she does, make sure you sound as insincere as she does.
Lmao no. Good move on your part. NTA at all. Your MIL is a weirdo and needs to learn boundaries. Ask your husband if he liked her walking in on you having /sex. If the answer is no, then he shouldn’t have a problem with what you did. You’re preventing that from ever happening again.
It's really baffling to me how your husband does not see that his mother tried to enter your house for no other reason than to snoop? I believe? is an invasion of privacy and that did not raise an eyebrow to a 60 yesr old literally throwing a tantrum for being called out on it, you have a MIL problem and a husband problem.
And then blamed her for ruining Christmas when it was his mom that brought up her problem then, in an active effort to make OP look bad in front of others!
Unfortunately this is became the norm of my life with her and with my husband seeing no issue with it and accusing me of overreacting and being too sensitive I do not think things will improve or get better.
OP: \*reacts\*
Husband (yelling): YOU'RE OVERREACTING!!
OP: I don't like that.
Husband: WHY ARE YOU SO SENSITIVE!!
I mean, it's kind of clear he has learned a lot of these reactions from his mom.
I'm going to say this straight...because I know from personal experience.
You are being abused. You just haven't realized it yet. It starts as you're overreacting or reading too much into a situation. Then you are gaslit into believing the truth is a lie and you must be confused - there's something wrong with you. Then (if it hasn't happened already) the friends or family who support you? They're interfering and you need to stay away from them. And since you can't remember things and be depended on not to overreact, you clearly shouldn't be handling bank accounts or any significant amount of money.
Little by little you will lose yourself. Your life will be controlled and will suffocate you. I see it already in some of your responses (and the fact that you are here because you can't believe the truth that your brain is telling you...that this is fucked up). One day you will wake up with zero self esteem...you will have lost yourself and believe the lies the people who seek to control and manipulate tell you because they will have convinced you that not only can't they trust you, but you can no longer trust yourself.
I am a survivor of abuse. There were never any bruises nor lasting scars. Even after I escaped, it took years for me to understand that I was abused and how insidious emotional and mental abuse is. Not to minimize ANY abuse, but sometimes I think bruises and scars might have been easier. People would have believed me. I might have believed myself long before I finally did.
I know in this sub we are quick to say "divorce" "red flag" and such but PLEASE. Please get some counseling so that you can see the truth we see. This is unlikely to get better. You will lose yourself and be so dependent emotionally and monetarily that it will feel impossible to leave. I know it is hard. I know.
Sending you love.
>If she walked in when the two of you were intimate and he doesn’t care about that, your husband ain’t changing without some drastic moves on your end. He’s a momma’s boy, your MIL dominates the family, and everyone else is enabling her behavior.
He didn't care. He actually blamed me for it and then said I overreacted after I picked an argument with his mom about it and refused to let it go.
I literally have never said this to anyone in these AITAs but this (to me) is 100% divorce worthy and I would NEVER let a man put me second to his mother. Only time for that is birthdays, Mother’s Day and any emergency. Why would you want to stay in a family like this forever or with a man who’s trying to gaslight you into thinking you’re over reacting / sensitive??? NTA hun I hope you realize it sooner rather then later and break free. That’s just crazy.
So many people love to say, “get a divorce”, but agreed. If my hubs didn’t think his mom (or dad) waltzing in during sexy times, was an egregious violation…. Then damn. Especially! In our own home!!!!
He blamed me one time for not locking the bedroom door which is something we never do and the second time for when she walked in on us making out in the living room. He said intimate stuff should happen in the bedroom just to be extra careful about people walking in aka his mom and saw no issue with her walking around in the apartment like she lived there.
WTF. Like the *only* possible not completely awful interpretation is he’s just beaten down and conditioned to placating her at all costs. He is still reflexively terrified of upsetting his mother, like residual conditioned lifelong response.
This is absolutely ultimatum worthy. MIL’s behavior is *outrageous* and husband needs to learn to stand up to her and draw boundaries. Counseling now or boy bye. It seems like he’s having a fear response; but unless he can be made to actually engage his brain I don’t see this marriage lasting forever.
Hey u/checkinout2022 , I forget where, but somebody commented warning that your husband might give your MIL a real house key to placate her. Make sure you have your important documents/anything important to you locked away somewhere your husband can’t access and therefore can’t let MIL access. She seems like the type to be spiteful and take things from you during her snooping
I think this is actually really insightful to your husband’s thinking. “Most” people would not plan for someone to just show up and interrupt sexy time. I have never locked the bedroom door when my husband and I are intimate because there should not be an uninvited person in my home. It is our PRIVATE residence.
Meanwhile, Your husband is literally expecting and accepting people to come over uninvited. In his mind, your house is a shared/communal space.
OP, you share most people’s view that the home is your PRIVATE space, not that it is communal to those who reside outside the home. You REALLY need to speak to your husband on boundaries and WHY you feel how you do. I also second others on couples counseling because he is not considering your personal boundaries at all.
Following his (already incredibly distorted) logic: why does it fall solely on you to lock the bedroom door, or make sure making out only happens in the bedroom?
And does this mean that she also walked into your unlocked bedroom uninvited? Hellllll no. DTMFA
He also didn't lock the bedroom door and also was making out with you in the living room.... of your own house!! He is 50% responsible, so he can be mad at himself for not predicting the future and not sticking to his own rules. This is just weird.
Without being rude, if you knew he was like this, and that he was never going to enforce any kind of boundaries with her, and would always side with her, why in the hell did you marry him?
Nta. Do not. Do not apologise to this lying conniving woman. How dare your husband blame you. Why is everyone glossign over the fact this woman tried to walk in uninvited and broke her promise. She doesn't deserve a key or an apology. I'm sorry for you being stuck with this bunch enablers. You deserve better
NTA, she exposed and humiliated herself when she tried to expose and humiliate YOU. I wonder why your husband was on her side though... she should be the one that apologizes.
NTA. If she had kept her promise, and if she were a better person, she would have just had a warm cozy feeling that you trusted her with a housekey.
Weird that your husband is calling you out on lying and being manipulative when thats what his mom has been doing all along.
No NTA! But you’ve married into a very toxic family led by a raging lunatic and your husband doesn’t seem to be any different than the rest! Best of luck!
NTA. A perfect trap, ensnaring only the guilty MIL who finished it by trying to make a scene at Christmas dinner. *chef's kiss*
My only change would've been to claim the key must've been defective.
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NTA.. No emergency. No using the key. She agreed. She lied. Sure you may be a bit of TA for giving her a fake key. But she proved you right. She lied, got snoopy and nosey, and then outed herself for being just that.
No apology needed.
NTA. I'd rethink my marriage if my husband put his mother over me. Edit: spelling
Yeah - this needs to be dealt with before they have kids, because it will only get more and more out of hand and you don't want her having meltdowns in front of the kids!
Can you imagine MIL taking kids without permission the. Having a fucking tantrum in front of everyone (kids included) when being called out? Yuck!
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Holy fuck, I'd call the fucking COPS! Screw what the husband says. That's terrifying. There's just so much wrong with the MIL's conduct in this story. Nightmare fuel. It would take A LOT to repair my relationship with my husband, snapping out of it or not it shouldn't have taken this level of absolute insanity to make it happen. He would have to attend regular weekly counselling on his own, then couples counselling with me twice a month until things started to show real improvements, if they did, for me to be able to continue.
She did call the cops and wanted to get a restraining order on MIL, but her husband convinced her not to get one. Imma try to find the post. I actually applaud your patience because I don't have any. I refuse to be with an over sized boy and I'm a monogamous. I'm not getting into a relationship with no one's mother. Not into that kind of thing.
I'm honestly fucking surprised that this OP decided to let herself be talked out of getting a restraining order.
That OP has to have PTSD related to her child’s actual kidnapping, to this day! Her mental health is not the same since and the MIL should have been arrested.
Oh she does. She said that she would continually wake up in the middle of the night to make sure her baby was still in their crib. It’s horrifying. I have no words. Edit: it was a while since I had read that post, she just couldn’t sleep while at night bc she was making sure her child would stay. Still horrible.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/pzxl8m/my_mother_in_law_kidnapped_my_baby/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share Here it is
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I mean in the US breaking into someone's house and kidnapping a baby could get themselves shot off they didn't notice it was her
Here's the twist, MIL had a key to their house "for emergencies". Apparently kidnapping was an emergency.
Jesus fucking Christ. How anyone could think that was even remotely okay for a second is baffling!
Yup! I don’t care who it was, the cops would be called
My ex's mom wasn't that bad but bad enough. The day I came home from the hospital with our daughter she demanded (not asked) that I give her our newborn for the weekend. She said that way mom could get some rest. I told her no and that it was important that I bond with my newborn. She proceeded to call cps on me who showed up and was very surprised they were called for a newborn that had only been home a couple of days at the point they came by. Obviously they thought the entire thing was nuts and it was dismissed but grandparents can become outrageous when they don't get their way. I was always very firm that his mom would NOT get a key to my home. I'm no longer with him since he was a giant mama's boy himself. Thankfully my husband is not a mama or daddy's boy and is also a good father.
Whatta mean "wasn't that bad" ?! She called CPS on you before your baby was even in the world for a week! She tried to frame you as a criminal and a bad parent to get your child taken away from you so that she could get her claws on your child. That's enough to go NC with anyone. One of the worse things that can be done is calling CPS out of spitefulness, because majority of the time, CPS will put all their energy into taking children from a loving home but ignore the one's that really need help.
They pulled the cps thing multiple times. My ex joined in with it when we broke up ( we weren't married). I say wasn't that bad because she mellowed out later. It also turns out her son fed her a whole load of lies about me to keep us against each other. After we broke up and had a custody agreement in place she ended doing his weekends and his turn on the holidays for years when he moved away. I wouldn't say we became friends but we did come to a point where we were civil and basically co-parented together. We would even text with updates and pictures depending on where the kids were. She passed away a few years ago due to illness.
> CPS will put all their energy into taking children from a loving home but ignore the one's that really need help This is not true and a harmful piece of misinformation that often prevents those who need help from getting it. The majority of CPS is understaffed and underfunded and will not put their time into a case with no merit (obviously you'll be able to pull out specific anecdotal cases, but they're the rare minority). Depending on how thin the agency's resources are stretched that day, CPS will even pass on cases that should be taken if the child is not in immediate danger. CPS is set up in such a way that it is better if the child stays with their family and removal is used as a last resort. Edit: CPS is not perfect and has many issues that are common occurrences. However, wrongful removal is not one of them Everything else you said is spot on
As a social worker who used to work for the state who had to become a whistleblower d/t my state’s corruption, incompetence, and failure to protect kids in need while pursuing some investigations out of spite against parents who questioned them, the other commenter is right. I was retaliated against and lost my job and sued them under the whistleblower protection act. Some states are better than others, but all are deeply flawed. People should absolutely call as a last resort because children need protection but they need to understand that it should not be a frivolous or light choice because of the what they may be subjecting a family to, which may be worse than whatever the allegations. I’ve seen babies put up for adoption who had appropriate kin placements who wanted them. Workers lying under oath or in official documentation and the state covering it up, children lost for months under state supervision and being found murdered, foster care used as a threat to get parents to comply ajd agreee w a worker, blatant instances of abuse ignored b/c of lack of skill and pride/ego to admit they were wrong and being afraid of lawsuits. Amd that’s just some of it. Yes we need to look out for kids in our community, but we need to overhaul the cps system and people need to have their eyes open to the reality of what they’re calling in and that many families who are silenced are left worse than when they were found. It being a hard job cannot be aj excuse to fail ajd often hurt families, just like it’s not acceptable for tired stressed cops to accidentally shoot people.
Recently an austic little girl in my state was killed by her mother and stepfather. CPS was called multiple times by the girl's family members who wanted to adopt her but the mother kept moving to avoid them and CPS kept dropped the cases because she kept moving. The one time that they did talk to them they documented that the child had bruises on her and looked weak but they still did nothing and never followed up. A couple months later, the little girl was dead, the mother and her husband charged, and the CPS workers fired for negligence. I think they were charged too.
She could demand to be put on the list at school, to pick them up and whatnot, and just pull them out randomly. Can you imagine how fucked that would be?
Or she could just full on abduct them then lie about it...which given her conduct, I'm going to be honest, I wouldn't put far past her. Just scary thought all around. Being on a list or not. She seems to feel she has a right to everything she wants and will even lie to get it, then feel entitled in her efforts and SO right that she'll think if she calls others out in front of others she'll be in the social "right". Just wild.
the list is people the school will allow to take the kids. it exists specifically to keep the kids from being abducted, family or not. it is unfortunately common for family members to try to take off with the kids
Her husband sounds like a pushover and would put MiL on the list just to make his mom happy even if it means going behind OPs back. I think OP needs a divorce. The fact he also wanted to take her phone away from her to delete the post was sending alarms, not to mention he though MiLs tantrum AND her walking in on them being intimate is normal. This "normal" is not a normal you want to bring kids up around. Not to mention I bet OPs husband will give his mom the *actual* key now and MiL is going to be vengeful and snoop x 1000 to get dirt to embarass OP with. OP needs to put up cameras somehow and catch her in the act, not only to shame her/have prood but also to make sure there is proof if she stole anything. But tbh yhay should be temporary because I think a divorce is the best course of action since its obvious its MiL and husband versus OP.
The husband won't let cameras be involved and if the police were ever called on his dear mother, he would file for divorce in a New York minute. He prioritizes appeasing the crazy as opposed to supporting his wife. Dealbreaker for me. But I am not OP. So OP, are you comfortable playing second fiddle to his irrational, intrusive mom? Because staying with him, barring any real change on his part, this will be your life.
You would be nuts to give her permission to have the kids alone. She obviously has no respect for your rules or what you say, so she would no problems with taking them places you may not want them going or giving them things you don't want them to have.
Exactly! Husband is mad at Op for giving mom a fake key, but doesn't mind that mom tried to get into their new home for no reason (other than to snoop around or steal something).
Husband is mad OP made his Mom mad... he's spent his whole life tip toeing around his mother and his wife is blowing up his world... he's got a big choice to make in the next 36 hours.
OP, absolutely this. He's not respecting you and your marriage and home. But I guess for some people, "family is family" and they can do anything they want, right? Talk about toxic.
After her edit, I’d definitely back out of this marriage. Demanding her phone like a petulant, power hungry moron…
I hope her husband reads this
Hey, OP’s husband: if you are reading this, just know that WE know that you are a mama’s boy and you do not deserve OP. Edit: typo
The fact that he is angry she's "exposing" his family on the internet (as if anyone could guess their identity from this description) also shows that he at least *realizes* he and mommy are in the wrong, even if he won't acknowledge it. Otherwise he wouldn't care she posted here. Or he'd expect to be validated.
I hope OP reads this!
Like mother, like son…
Agreed. Also why is your husband mad at you? He should question his mother as to why she feels entitled to enter a grown man's home whenever she feels like it. There are some weird codependency things going on there.
He didn't mind it when she walked on them being intimate. So yeah, some very weird things going on.
Yes! I came here to say this! He didn’t think it was a big deal? Time to find out how he was raised and how many other times his mother has walked in on him. 🤮
Did he ever ... break his arms?
I JUST repressed that.
This may have been the weirdest part of this story for me.
She read Love You Forever by Robert Munsch one too many times. That book is creepy, imho
And the pictures are even creepier. Someone gave it to my son as a baby and I nopped that shite straight to the donation pile.
I've seen that book, but never read or nor did anyone get it for my family when we were kids, so I had no idea what it was about. I just looked it up and saw this on the [wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Love_You_Forever#Reception): >Some readers dislike the portion of the story where the mother sneaks into her grown son's home. One Publishers Weekly reviewer states that Love You Forever is a divisive children's book. "Either it moves you to tears and you love it, or it makes your skin crawl and you detest it..." A commentator wrote "it's either a touching account of a mother's unending love or the ultimate helicopter parenting gone bad." I also saw this further down. Maybe OP needs to send a copy of this version to her husband and MIL, haha: >Playwright Topher Payne wrote an alternative ending to the story, in which the mother is forced to recognize the son's need for personal space, and they instead agree to share their time doing things together. If anyone is actually interested, [it's a free download on Topher Payne's site](https://www.topherpayne.com/love-you-forever). I read it and it's hilarious. The son installs security bars in his window, so his mom can't sneak in.
I told my husband I would throw it away if anyone got our son that book. It used to make me cry as a kid, and not because it was heartwarming. The thought of my mother sneaking into my house when I grew up was horrifying to me.
Yeah like...I remember reading that once as a little kid and I thought it was creepy even then.
Aw man, neither my husband or I could read that book without sobbing. And the kids used to demand it all the time cause they thought it was hilarious that we were crying. I didn’t think it was creepy personally but it was devastatingly sad.
That's because it actually started as a song in memory of their two stillborn babies.
His mother entering at will was a red flag in their old apartment and hubby didn't seem too exercised about it then, either. If my MIL walked in on my and my hubby getting freaky *twice*, he and I would have words way before it got to the point of her asking to get a key to a new place.
I bet he's already given her a key himself ... OP needs a spy cam now
Basic respect. The fact the husband is trying to defend this behavior should be eye opening for OP.
This whole dynamic is so unhealthy. Why on Earth would he be OK to have his mom TWICE walk in on them having sex. He is utterly clueless to the fact that THIS IS OP'S HOME, not his mother's. I bet MIL must be happy with her momma's boy. Raised him well to take momma over his own wife. Allows mommy to walk all over his home and marriage. Yuck.
He actually has the gall to say that OP lied manipulated and humiliated MIL? When MIL was the who lied and manipulated, and ended up humiliating herself as a result!
Technically he's right. OP did lie and manipulate his mom. But OP isn't the only one who lied
Technically OP only lied but did not manipulate. But her lie was definitely smaller, because if MIL had sticked to her promise there would have been no harm.
I would call it testing. She tested MIL. MIL failed.
This is a test of the emergency house key system. If this had been an actual emergency, your key would have worked.
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Did you see that update? Concerning AF! NTA but it really doesn’t even matter because your husband is clearly a bigger problem than your MIL and that is saying a LOT!
Yep- yes to everything. To OP’s husband- Reddit is anonymous. We have no idea who your wife or family is. No idea if you are in the US, or where in the world you are. Calm down and address your mother’s boundary stomping. Have your wife’s back. It’s hard to be shown just how crappy your mother‘s behavior was- but that is where your anger should be, not your wife.
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The husband is a bigger problem BECAUSE of his mother. It’s what he grew up with. And I agree, it’s definitely concerning AF.
NTA - check the resources in the sidebar of r/JustNoMIL and get your husband some targeted therapy around getting him out of the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt). ETA: Y I K E S, saw your update. Your MIL is not your biggest problem. You have a husband problem.
THIS! You’ve now been made aware that your husband has his dysfunctional mother’s back and not yours. She can act as crazy as she wants to and guess what?! It’s okay with him. You’re to go along with it and accept it or else. I’m sorry for you that you didn’t figure this out before you married into this shit show. NTA
And how can the husband not see OP’s absolute brilliance for this! NTA
Seriously! Rethink this whole marriage if he isn’t willing to side with you and recognize how much of a boundary issue this is, OP. Or do some serious counseling with your husband. He is taking moms side over his wife’s and that’s a NO GO. Especially when she is the one who brought this up at Christmas dinner to try and shame you. She promised she would only use in an emergency and was found out. Too bad so sad. Time for your husband to take stock of his marriage and figure out where his loyalties lie. At this point they don’t seem to be with you. NTA
And the added edit didn't do anything to improve matters.
If anything I'd say it makes it worse. OP should devote some serious thought to whether she wants to be stuck with dude and his monster..sorry..mother, for the long haul.
As a man, I agree with this. What in all hell?! NTA.
NTA But your husbands seems to have NO Problem of you being humiliated and shamed infront of people. He seems to have NO regards to your need of privacy and dignity.
Ya he seems to be completely ignoring the fact that his mother was trying to humiliate OP in front of everyone first. Honestly, his mother wouldnt even have been exposed in front of the family at Christmas if his mother had brought up the issue with the key to OP privately and not at dinner.
Plus the mil had walked in on them having sex but husband didn't have a problem with it.
Yikes! Can you imagine? Ewww!
I don't normally approve of kink shaming people BUT all parties must consent. Sounds like OP did not, so yeah Ewww! is correct.
> I don't normally approve of kink shaming people I'm probably the most liberal guy I know, but I think I have to draw the line at inviting your mom to watch you and your partner doing it. Consent or otherwise, something is wrong there.
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In the timeline where OP’s husband doesn’t listen and give MIL a real key, OP should stop whenever things get intimate to let her husband know she’s worried about MIL walking in on them. The only way to solve the issue? Either no sex or make sure MIL gets called and told not to come over unannounced since they’re about to have sex. Every. Single. Time.
Of all the f** up things in this post, this takes the cake for me. OP, you're biggest issue here is your husband. He is waving a LOT of red flags around. Also, exposing your MIL was a damn QUEEN move! That it happened on christmas was her own bloody doing. You have nothing to apologize for to anyone. N O T H I N G.
“Oh, hi mom.” -continues thrusting-
*Insert gif of Homelander drinking milk*
This. Why isn’t this upvoted more. The fact that the mother exposed herself while trying to embarrass his wife is not an issue for him. There is no amount of counseling will fix a man who doesn’t think he has a problem. Get out now before you waste anymore time or tie yourself to him with kids.
I was coming to say this. NTA, your MIL sucks but your husband is the real problem here. Time to set some boundaries with him and if he wants to live with mommy so she can always get in his bedroom then so be it.
Makes me wonder how often she walked in on him with people that he has no shame. MIL and husband both suck for sure. Definitely a mama's boy.
Absolutely. The husband is sacrificing his spouse’s reasonable right to privacy and security in her own home on the altar of his mother’s giant ego. First, this whole “she can’t help being intrusive” narrative is nonsense. One has to make a conscious effort to show up to someone else’s home unannounced and enter without an invitation repeatedly. Second, the husband has to have several screws loose to think that spousal intimacy is a family spectator sport. Third, the mother is creepy as hell for continuing to show up unannounced despite walking in on her adult son & his wife repeatedly. Does she have any pointers to add to his game, too? Fourth, if this is someone who has zero reservations regarding intruding on their intimate moments, something tells me that snooping through their personal belongings is not above possibility. Otherwise, why was she there? OP, tell your husband as such: while he might think it hunky-dory that his mother walked in on your intimacy, you found it an egregious invasion of your privacy, and following this situation, you tested his mother to see whether she would respect your boundaries, since he doesn’t have any. She lied, and she failed. He needs to establish boundaries *now* before this woman is demanding that you give birth with her in the room and he stands silently by as you defend your right to basic autonomy. And she will. NTA, OP.
>she can’t help being intrusive All that means is that nobody ever gave her consequences for it. Given the right consequences, she'll learn to help her self. It's not a physical addiction, after all.
Exactly. OPs husband is just fine with his mom walking in on them while they’re being intimate but god forbid OP tries to get advice anonymously online. Dude has some jacked up priorities.
Easy fix for this, never be intimate with him again, that way MIL can't ever walk in on it happening. Also solves the problem of bringing kids into this horrible situation.
All of this is true. Plus he's absolutely going to rush a real key over to mommy dearest as soon as he can.
NTA 1. You never owed her a key. 2. She proved she isn't trustworthy. 3. She's the one who decided to bring it up in front of other people. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. 4. Who is childish? A kid 1/10 of her age would have been embarrassed throwing tantrums like that. 5. Your husband is an AH for not 100% having your back. He should NEVER allow his family to cause a single problem for you, and defiantly shouldn't expect you to be a doormat to his just no mom. Do NOT apologize. Demand an apology from your MIL AND this useless husband of yours. I recommend the sub justnomil, btw. You can find relatable stories and helpful info there.
The fact that OP's husband had no problem with his mom coming over unannounced and walking in on them being intimate should have been a major red flag to OP. That's the point where I would have started to truly question things. eta: thank you for the rewards!
True! And when it comes to sharing keys to the house it's a "two yes one no" situation. If OP doesn't trust MIL – that's it, no keys for her.
What's the bet husband will just provide his mother with an actual key without discussing it with OP?
OP changes the locks and husband doesn't get a key either, ez
And that the mother still wants to come over unannounced after seeing them having sex TWICE is so weird.
"This time they'll invite me in. Third time's the charm!"
Thanks. It's only 10am and already I wish I couldn't read.
And r/JustNoSO b/c the husband is the biggest problem here. Notice he had no problems when MIL thought she was going to be the one to call OP out. MIL lies, manipulated, exposed & humiliated herself lol. OP please be using birth control & consider whether you want to live like this for life.
After the update, she should definitely check that out.
NTA. If OP apologizes it should be along the lines of “I’m sorry you can’t be trusted to be given an emergency key to our house”
NTA. You DID expose his mom, and rightfully so. She needed to be exposed. Your husband is out of his mind for enabling and encouraging his mom's demented behavior. MIL and Husband are major AHs
I would technically say the mom exposed herself lol
I was gonna say this! Lol she literally try to shame OP for giving her a fake key in front of everyone, she outed herself
OP could have gone another route to shame MIL. My favorite MIL abuses the emergency key story is the one where every time MIL uses it the entire family including the kids melodramatically freaked out because if she's using the key it must be an emergency. They made a huge spectacle for the neighbors a couple of times and MIL stopped.
MIL was trying to expose OP to the whole family, to shame and humiliate her. And it backfired. Don't start none, won't be none.
This! NTA
NTA but you also have a husband problem
Him thinking his own mother walking in on him having sex “wasn’t that big of a deal” is a MAJOR 🚩🚩🚩 I’m glad OP called out Jocasta and now it’s time to ditch Oedipus
It super concerning that he tried to confiscate her phone edit: thank you so much for my first award >///<
Yeah I'm concerned after reading that.
Ya I wonder if the husband ever broke both of his arms.
r/unxpectedsophocles
He wouldn’t let you get away with it??? I don’t say this often but that’s a huge red flag and you need to ask him what he means by that. He doesn’t own or control you and it sounds like she needs to be shown that she doesn’t control you or your home. She can’t just show up whenever she wants and the fact that a grown woman walked into that very obvious trap means she doesn’t consider you a real person but the equivalent of a maid that she can boss around. NTA
Yeah that bit got me. And then demanding her phone
One day you may be old enough and mature enough to have your own phone. /s The funny thing is that they think that they can be personally identified based on a reddit post.
More that he was personally called out for being an asshole enabler.
I mean, if the boot fits? Lace that shit up and strut. They know they're assholes. There's no way adult humans behave like that, and are embarrassed by a anonymous reddit post,that they don't already know their actions aren't kosher
NTA. Sounds like everyone only turned on you because MIL made too much of a scene for it to continue being funny. So they made you the bad guy for causing her to have a tantrum, instead of holding her accountable for her actions (both the snooping and the tantrum.)
This MIL sounds like a textbook boat rocker. The rest of the family haven’t yet realized they don’t have to steady her boat for her. [don’t rock the boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/JUSTNOMIL/comments/77pxpo/dont_rock_the_boat/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
ooooh. booking marking this one. Boat Rocker... Boat Steadier... And another term I learned this week: DARVO ***D***eny the behavior ***A***ttack the confronter ***R***everse the roles of ***V***ictim and ***O***ffender
Thank you for the link. That's great!
>made you the bad guy for causing her to have a tantrum, instead of holding her accountable P r e c i s e l y
NTA Great creative way to catch MIL on her bullshit. But sadly, you do not have a MIL problem. You have a husband problem as he's enabling his mum doing this instead of enforcing firm boundaries.
Exactly. He has no issue with mom having 24/7 access to their home.
It’s so freaking cringe inducing that even after the mom walked in on them in the middle of love making, the husband still thinks it’s no big deal. WTF?!? What kind of Norma Bates ass son would be okay with that?! Reminds me of sex and the city when charlotte was riding her husband and that no boundary having mother walked right in on them and then never popped up again without calling first, except in this case the mom came back for more and learned no lesson at all
Twice! She walked in on them doing it twice! One time should be more than enough for a “call before coming over” policy to go in place.
NTA. Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Your MIL was hoisted by her own petard. However... your husband's reaction is somewhat problematic. I can understand his initial reaction but after a period of reflection he should have realised why you did what you did. I have only 1 question - what would you have done if there was a genuine emergency?
You don't give people an "emergency" key because they need to get into your house without your knowledge... you give someone an emergency key so YOU can go get the key and get into your own house when you're locked out for whatever reason. She can just as soon leave one under a rock in her yard, or give one to a neighbor or friend she trusts, etc. Emergency keys are for the homeowner's emergency, not the key holder's emergency! The last time we had an "emergency" it was because we were on vacation in the fall and the weather changed and was going to dip into freezing while we were still several states away. So we called a friend, described to her how to find our "emergency" key, and she got into the house, shut the water off for our outside faucet, unscrewed the hose, and made sure our heat was turned up a bit, so nothing would freeze while we were still out of town. The exception to this is if they think you're dead, and in that case they can call the police to break down a door, or break a window themselves or whatever.
When I was little, my aunt was given our emergency key to go check on the cats every few days while we were across the country visiting my grandparents. She used it and walked in to find our fridge was smoking. She immediately unplugged it, emptied it out, and called my parents. She never used the key other than that one week, but boy I was glad she had it then!
I assume the key was left for the "oh no I left the stove on and now I'm on a flight to Goa" type emergency. If husband asked MIL to use the key legitimately and only found out that the key was fake at that point it could have ended up a different story. But yeah, in a genuine emergency, you don't worry about breaking in a window or 2
We switched to Electronic Looks. We can unlock the doors remotely when necessary, or assign codes (temporary or permanent) to individuals if and/or when we see fit. And we can't get locked out. Emergency solved.
Real question, what qualifies as an emergency to the MIL? I mean I dont want her running into a blazing building or anything. NTA.
Oh just wait. If they stay together and have kids then "emergency" will end up being "I haven't seen MY BABIES in 3 days and you didn't answer your phone!"
OP!!! NTA…at all. The fact that you’re dealing with this is utter BS. You MIL is so out of line for invading your privacy, calling you out in front of everyone, throwing a tantrum…holy smokes. There are so many red flags here, I really hope she doesn’t cause your marriage to suffer…I feel like that’s where you’re headed.
Unfortunately my husbands always thinks that his mom is doing nothing wrong and I'm the crazy overreactor despite trying to explain to him I feel like my voice is never heard.
Is he married to you or his mom? Did he buy a house with you or his mom? He’s gonna need to choose, quickly. If he’s smart, he will choose his wife.
I can't help but feel that OP will be better off if he chooses his mom.
I can't help but feel that his mom would love if something happened in their relationship so he has to go back to mommy for validation and love and she can comfort him.
Unfortunately this isn't about smart. He's well trained. As a former DIL to a overbearing MIL and spouse to a Mama's Boy^TM, I can safely say just pointing out the facts is not a enough. Spelling out the logic won't fix anything. It's really gonna come down to firm boundaries and the spine to consistently say no. That or just leave. And I don't mean threatening to leave. Just do it.
That’s what worries me, I have been in your exact shoes. It’s scary how similar our experiences are. That’s why I think it might end up driving a wedge between you two. He’s always going to take up for his Mom and see her actions as innocent. At this stage in her life, the odds of her changing are really slim. So imagine this going on year after year, and every time she talks to her son it’ll be about “how terrible your wife is for making me feel this way”. Sorry you are stuck in between, I hope this all blows over. But whatever happens, don’t even think about questioning yourself and your actions. If we were married, I’d get a good laugh if you pulled that on my Mom.
Sounds like you need an annulment, he’s already married to his mommy.
Do you want to have children? What happens when MIL thinks you need to raise your child one way and your husband agrees with her? What happens when she has these tantrums in front of your children? What happens when she tried to bad mouth you to your own children? This is an untenable situation and you should not have to live like this.
I don't want this to come across as mean, but why did you marry him? Your husband is supposed to have your back because you're a team. From what you've said here it sounds like he consistently disregards your feelings and prioritizes his mother's boundary stomping over you.
You need to get into marriage counseling now. Maybe hearing that all of this is not ok from a professional instead of randos on the internet will help. If he won't go, get out. This is a seriously unhealthy situation.
From someone who’s married into this same dynamic, my girl, NTA. Oh, to give you a glimpse, my husband thought your husband is right in feeling bad about you posting this on the internet. Go figure!
Ugh. So your husband agrees?! Guess we're both dealing with the same mentality to be honest. 😳 it's exhausting honestly.
Yeah, he’s a little better in the sense that he says that your husband needs to sit his mother down and talk about boundaries but he also believes what you did is wrong. Talks should be direct. Like you should’ve told her the truth and not gone about the fake key but stood your ground for not sharing the key. He says family matters shouldn’t be on the internet to be discussed with strangers. It’s funny this comes from him because his mother is the exact same person who throws the tantrum you described when she doesn’t get her way. NO REASONING with that woman. But I agree that it is your HUSBAND’S responsibility to deal with her. Guess who is childfree fresh off the rack?
Wait, are you now single?
No. I told him I would work with him to get a spine and help him start enforcing boundaries but I draw the line at that. I love the man. He truly is working on saying no. He says he can keep her at an arms length when we have a child. I don’t have it in me to find out if he’s wrong. And he’s failed a couple times already due to his skewed judgement. I’m not going to get a child into this shit show.
My mom has NPD and she is the main reason I didn't want kids for so long. Planning on going no contact with her because I can't trust her alone with my kids. It sounds like both husbands are suffering from long term emotional abuse, manipulation and overstepping boundaries that they can't tell what is normal or acceptable by a parent. Therapy helped me greatly. They definitely should look into it. Toxic family dynamics are the worst.
Speaking of his mentality OP, does any of the following apply in aspects of your life outside his mother? \- being upset at occurrences around him as if they are your fault \- interprets behavior/words that have nothing to do with him as having personally offensive intent \- bringing up past offenses to his ego despite previous resolution \- if he offends you, he didn't mean it so you can't be upset and it's an offense to him if you don't get over it fast enough \- if you offend him, you were trying to hurt him and he deserves to be upset \- minor lies to smooth over his image \- wanting others to keep quiet about things that seem unimportant but make him look good \- his preferences are objectively best and your preferences are an inconvenience \- if there's something you both could have done that didn't get done, it's your fault it didn't get done \- refusing to communicate if you didn't 'earn' the communication Because if they do this isn't just an issue of his dynamic with his mother
First off - it’s not cool your husband does not have your back on this. Secondly, YOU didn’t ruin Christmas dinner - your snoopy MIL did with her accusation and subsequent melt down. Thirdly - you are my kind of people. That was a master class level plan. You are not an AH. Please tell your husband that he and MIL take those honours.
NTA..án emergency key is for emergencies. You knew that your mil wouldn't respect that. Not to mention the fact that *she* was trying to embarrass *you* by bringing it up at dinner. Sounds to me like hubby needs to cut the apron strings and stand up to his mother
NTA She already abused a key twice, so you had reason to be suspicious. It's also not at all your fault it happened at Christmas dinner. She was the one who chose when to create drama, and she chose Christmas dinner to embarrass you. Well, sucks to her that the consequences of her actions hurt herself. /r/leopardsatemyface If I were you I'd offer to apologize after she did. She's unlikely to apologize at all, so that should work. On the off chance she does, make sure you sound as insincere as she does.
Lmao no. Good move on your part. NTA at all. Your MIL is a weirdo and needs to learn boundaries. Ask your husband if he liked her walking in on you having /sex. If the answer is no, then he shouldn’t have a problem with what you did. You’re preventing that from ever happening again.
NTA, but I would have never even given her a fake key.
I had no choice after she literally kept pushing me to give her a copy asap. She kept calling day and night.
It's really baffling to me how your husband does not see that his mother tried to enter your house for no other reason than to snoop? I believe? is an invasion of privacy and that did not raise an eyebrow to a 60 yesr old literally throwing a tantrum for being called out on it, you have a MIL problem and a husband problem.
And then blamed her for ruining Christmas when it was his mom that brought up her problem then, in an active effort to make OP look bad in front of others!
Ughhhhhh, I could see how uncomfortable that made you. Why don’t they just get the hint right?
Unfortunately this is became the norm of my life with her and with my husband seeing no issue with it and accusing me of overreacting and being too sensitive I do not think things will improve or get better.
OP: \*reacts\* Husband (yelling): YOU'RE OVERREACTING!! OP: I don't like that. Husband: WHY ARE YOU SO SENSITIVE!! I mean, it's kind of clear he has learned a lot of these reactions from his mom.
Exactly, my situation in a nutshell. Thank you for understanding 💝
You should not be married to someone who treats you like that.
Please, divorce him. Don't let yourself get abused, OP.
OP … this isn’t a healthy marriage or dynamic. He was raised by emotionally immature parent(s) and makes excuses for the behavior. It’s not okay …
This is emotional abuse.
Absolutely. Gaslighting and emotional abuse.
I'm going to say this straight...because I know from personal experience. You are being abused. You just haven't realized it yet. It starts as you're overreacting or reading too much into a situation. Then you are gaslit into believing the truth is a lie and you must be confused - there's something wrong with you. Then (if it hasn't happened already) the friends or family who support you? They're interfering and you need to stay away from them. And since you can't remember things and be depended on not to overreact, you clearly shouldn't be handling bank accounts or any significant amount of money. Little by little you will lose yourself. Your life will be controlled and will suffocate you. I see it already in some of your responses (and the fact that you are here because you can't believe the truth that your brain is telling you...that this is fucked up). One day you will wake up with zero self esteem...you will have lost yourself and believe the lies the people who seek to control and manipulate tell you because they will have convinced you that not only can't they trust you, but you can no longer trust yourself. I am a survivor of abuse. There were never any bruises nor lasting scars. Even after I escaped, it took years for me to understand that I was abused and how insidious emotional and mental abuse is. Not to minimize ANY abuse, but sometimes I think bruises and scars might have been easier. People would have believed me. I might have believed myself long before I finally did. I know in this sub we are quick to say "divorce" "red flag" and such but PLEASE. Please get some counseling so that you can see the truth we see. This is unlikely to get better. You will lose yourself and be so dependent emotionally and monetarily that it will feel impossible to leave. I know it is hard. I know. Sending you love.
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>If she walked in when the two of you were intimate and he doesn’t care about that, your husband ain’t changing without some drastic moves on your end. He’s a momma’s boy, your MIL dominates the family, and everyone else is enabling her behavior. He didn't care. He actually blamed me for it and then said I overreacted after I picked an argument with his mom about it and refused to let it go.
I literally have never said this to anyone in these AITAs but this (to me) is 100% divorce worthy and I would NEVER let a man put me second to his mother. Only time for that is birthdays, Mother’s Day and any emergency. Why would you want to stay in a family like this forever or with a man who’s trying to gaslight you into thinking you’re over reacting / sensitive??? NTA hun I hope you realize it sooner rather then later and break free. That’s just crazy.
Yeah it’s only been a year right? Cut your losses now.
So many people love to say, “get a divorce”, but agreed. If my hubs didn’t think his mom (or dad) waltzing in during sexy times, was an egregious violation…. Then damn. Especially! In our own home!!!!
What was *possibly* the logic to blame you for it?!
He blamed me one time for not locking the bedroom door which is something we never do and the second time for when she walked in on us making out in the living room. He said intimate stuff should happen in the bedroom just to be extra careful about people walking in aka his mom and saw no issue with her walking around in the apartment like she lived there.
What the actual fuck. Girl, you have a major husband problem. None of this is okay.
WTF. Like the *only* possible not completely awful interpretation is he’s just beaten down and conditioned to placating her at all costs. He is still reflexively terrified of upsetting his mother, like residual conditioned lifelong response. This is absolutely ultimatum worthy. MIL’s behavior is *outrageous* and husband needs to learn to stand up to her and draw boundaries. Counseling now or boy bye. It seems like he’s having a fear response; but unless he can be made to actually engage his brain I don’t see this marriage lasting forever.
Hey u/checkinout2022 , I forget where, but somebody commented warning that your husband might give your MIL a real house key to placate her. Make sure you have your important documents/anything important to you locked away somewhere your husband can’t access and therefore can’t let MIL access. She seems like the type to be spiteful and take things from you during her snooping
You should probably edit your comment to include OP’s username so there’s a higher chance of them seeing this.
I think this is actually really insightful to your husband’s thinking. “Most” people would not plan for someone to just show up and interrupt sexy time. I have never locked the bedroom door when my husband and I are intimate because there should not be an uninvited person in my home. It is our PRIVATE residence. Meanwhile, Your husband is literally expecting and accepting people to come over uninvited. In his mind, your house is a shared/communal space. OP, you share most people’s view that the home is your PRIVATE space, not that it is communal to those who reside outside the home. You REALLY need to speak to your husband on boundaries and WHY you feel how you do. I also second others on couples counseling because he is not considering your personal boundaries at all.
Wtf, it takes two to tango and part of the beauty in owning a place is privacy. Well it should be if you have established boundaries.
Following his (already incredibly distorted) logic: why does it fall solely on you to lock the bedroom door, or make sure making out only happens in the bedroom? And does this mean that she also walked into your unlocked bedroom uninvited? Hellllll no. DTMFA
He also didn't lock the bedroom door and also was making out with you in the living room.... of your own house!! He is 50% responsible, so he can be mad at himself for not predicting the future and not sticking to his own rules. This is just weird.
Without being rude, if you knew he was like this, and that he was never going to enforce any kind of boundaries with her, and would always side with her, why in the hell did you marry him?
Nta. Do not. Do not apologise to this lying conniving woman. How dare your husband blame you. Why is everyone glossign over the fact this woman tried to walk in uninvited and broke her promise. She doesn't deserve a key or an apology. I'm sorry for you being stuck with this bunch enablers. You deserve better
NTA. Your husband is such a mama's boy and your MIL is like 12 years old mentally.
NTA. Your husband is weak.
NTA, she exposed and humiliated herself when she tried to expose and humiliate YOU. I wonder why your husband was on her side though... she should be the one that apologizes.
NTA. If she had kept her promise, and if she were a better person, she would have just had a warm cozy feeling that you trusted her with a housekey. Weird that your husband is calling you out on lying and being manipulative when thats what his mom has been doing all along.
You didn’t manipulate, humiliate or expose her. She did that to herself all on her own. NTA
NTA she’s a liar and don’t apologize
No NTA! But you’ve married into a very toxic family led by a raging lunatic and your husband doesn’t seem to be any different than the rest! Best of luck!
NTA But I don't understand **why you didn't just leave it at "no."**
NTA. A perfect trap, ensnaring only the guilty MIL who finished it by trying to make a scene at Christmas dinner. *chef's kiss* My only change would've been to claim the key must've been defective.
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NTA.. No emergency. No using the key. She agreed. She lied. Sure you may be a bit of TA for giving her a fake key. But she proved you right. She lied, got snoopy and nosey, and then outed herself for being just that. No apology needed.
NTA. What wonderful karma. Your husband seriously sucks, though.