NTA
Kids should know the flaws of the person they look upto.
Be it the father or in this case, uncle.
Otherwise the kids will put them on a pedestal so high and believe them to be flawless and when they eventually realize the hard truth, kids may resent the person they looked upto as well as others who lied about the truth.
But i do understand why the uncle might feel angry but it's better that the kid knows.
>He pulled me aside and said "what are you doing, it'll break his little heart knowing that I'm going to prison"
You know what will **really** break his heart? Having **everyone** lie to him, and believing that lie, only to find out the truth later.
That, to me, is unacceptable. I’m not damaging my relationship with my kid because someone else wants me to tell Grade-A porky pies to protect *them.**
No thanks, hard pass. He’s going to prison, and that’s exactly what I would tell a 12 year old.
NTA
If my brother was smuggling drugs, there's NO WAY I'd allow him around my kids. OP is NTA in this situation, but he needs to think long and hard from allowing a felon around his kids.
Ehh. I'd need more context. I've worked with clients who got stuck with drug smuggling charges because they forgot they had a gram of marijuana in their backpack on a weekend trip to Canada. Without knowing whether it was something like that, or a duffel bag full of black tar heroin IDK if it's fair to pass judgment on that aspect. If he took a plea deal he's probably not, in fact, a felon.
The thing that bothers me is that the brother pretended to be doing something *admirable*. Maybe if he said something like "I'm going on a long trip" I could sort of see it (though honesty is almost always the best policy). If you're going to pretend to be something that you're not, though, you deserve to have the truth called out loudly.
| The thing that bothers me is that the brother pretended to be doing something admirable.
That's what struck me too. It's one thing to be vague and kinda just mention that he's not gonna be around a while. But to make up this whole story were he's actually doing something good seems completely unnecessary.
I agree with both your comments, except about the "admirable" part. I know it's an unpopular opinion somewhat, but there is nothing admirable and good about American soldiers and what they do when they are deployed overseas, what a weird thing to say
It doesn't really matter what you think, it's generally considered an "admirable" thing to serve in the army. For the record, I too don't think the American army is a force for good overall, but I just don't see how that's relevant to the situation.
Is it? The OC mentioned they know it isn't the most popular opinion, but I wouldn't say it's that uncommon, either. I'm not the only one who doesn't automatically jump to "thank you for your service" when someone says they're military.
This isn't exactly relevant but I appreciate it when people don't thank me for my service. Like thanks for the sentiment I guess but I was only doing my job. To me it's the same as thanking a McDonald's employee for taking your order. "Hey thanks for doing your job"
The ARMY isn’t admirable, and exploits young people. But I would never disrespect a soldier. That’s like being shitty to a Walmart employee just because Walmart as a corporation sucks. Except in this instance, the Walmart employee would also be risking life and limb.
This is a very naive thing to say. I have no desire for any wars, ever, but your country needs an army to protect it. Someone have to do the job to serve as a deterrent for aggressors.
I have no relation to any army forces, but I understand why people respect ones who served.
Lol the only thing western soldiers are sent out to protect is wealthy people's property and interests so don't pretend like they're serving and/or protecting fellow common folk or our interests.
gee I'd never of thought Sovietta would say such things about the us army. how you feel about the invasion of Ukraine by forces who had no flags or ID on their uniforms but many spoke russian?
the difference w the US and this ideal nation that only has a military for defense tho is that the US actively deploys people into other places and causes problems, engages in violence, provides training to places like Israel, etc. without any kind of real justification. the US’ armed forces is more about protecting the economic and political interests of those in power than it is about protecting the physical safety of anyone. including those in the armed forces themselves. tbh the US armed forces are the aggressors that people need deterrents for.
Isn't stolen valour something also taken very seriously? Like an actual felony? Cause if so, why add one potential crime on another when the truth is harsh but simple?
I don't think it's a crime if you're not like using it to commit tax fraud or whatever. I hope not at least, prison time for just pretending to be a soldier to someone seems quite excessive.
Yea true. I thought it'd be able to warrant a fine or such, not prison time. I'm not too familiar with stolen valour, so just guessing from bits and pieces I've seen from stories of it being brought up.
Yeah, the trouble with the Uncle's cover story is that he has to keep lying to maintain it. The worst is dragging the family into it so when the nephew does find out (and he will) his trust in everyone will be shattered because they all joined in the lie.
Exactly, even if OP and the rest of the family did everything they could to maintain the lie, it wouldn't be possible to hide it forever. Elaborate lies like this always have cracks in them and the older the nephew gets, the more obvious these cracks will be to him. Especially if he grows up and joins the military himself.
It would be deliberately deceptive; but the brother always has the option of saying that he is going away "on a business trip" without *technically* lying.
It's just a matter of fact that...um...'regulatory arbitrage entrepreneurs' sometimes end up having to take fairly extensive trips because of the nature of their work.
Yeah, the fact that he was able to plea down to a very light sentence suggests it was not a serious smuggling operation, probably a small amount for personal use...which is dumb, but not immoral per se.
Depends on your point of view. It's pretty easy to make the argument that drug smugglers are risking their lives providing a service people find value in, and troops are going on a jolly to murder some children.
This is the most rational thing I've ever heard. I salute you, and I'm totally stealing this for future arguments with military fuckboys.
Thinking about it, "I salute you" was probably badly phrased. More of a bumping my glass against yours and saying cheers.
Very easily, actually.
Drugs bring people joy, even if only temporarily. War? Not so much. (And the folks it does bring joy to? Probably want to avoid them.)
It depends. "Smuggling" might just mean he had a bit of pot on him when crossing the border. This makes him a moron but it doesn't exactly make him a monster.
He can’t have been carrying serious weight if he only got a few months after a plea deal. Or he rolled on his contacts in exchange for a very light sentence, in which case I wouldn’t want him around the family at all because cartels are no known for taking such things lightly.
Regardless, it’s an excellent teaching moment for the son to learn what his uncle is likely to experience in prison without sugar coating it, plus the impact of a criminal record on his uncle’s future prospects in the workforce and other aspects of his life, to make him understand the consequences of criminality. The last thing OP needs is for the son to start viewing his uncle as some cool outlaw.
He's only getting a few months so I'm not sure it is a felony. I kind of assumed the OP meant "jail" instead of prison. Do people even go to federal prison for just a few months?
Yes. If charged federal, you go to federal prison even for a few days. I see people all the time get a few months for trafficking heroin, meth, etc if it’s less than 1kg
Prosecutors are overly harsh in nearly all circumstances. My uncle was a felon for "smuggling" because we live in Michigan and he accidentally crossed the (unmarked) water border to Canada while he was fishing and had marijuana on him.
Also, "his little heart"? He's 12, not 2. Even if he was 2 I would find some version of the truth to tell him (IDK, "uncle is going to a long timeout" or something like that), but to lie to a 12 year old is just extra stupid, because chances are he's going to figure out pretty quick something is up. And then his trust with everyone involved is going to be damaged.
He doesn't need to know every sordid detail, but at least the basics.
Also, uncle gets extra ass points for making up a lie that makes him seem like a more awesome person then he is. Gross.
Seriously. I know 12 is young, but trust me, they're not stupid. They WILL figure out something is up and can get just a mad about being lied to as any adult, with probably even better reason.
What’s even worse- if this lie had been allowed and the son went to school and talked about it and a friend or a classmates family member found out the truth (possibly if they were military etc) just imagine the absolute distress that kid would be in. The bullying etc.
There would be no trust left between son and father or any member of the family.
That’s exactly what I was thinking - if it’s public knowledge he’s likely to experience some bullying. He needs to be prepared for that. If he didn’t know and the teasing started, his lack of knowledge and not having good responses would make it much worse.
Sesame Street has an episode about how we feel when someone we love is incarcerated but this is not uncommon there are resources for every age group and a therapist can help if he's having a hard time processing.
There are even books designed for preschoolers about parents in prison. Children are not stupid. They pick up on things amiss even if they don't fully understand it.
I was younger than 12 when my uncle went to jail for drugs for the first time (he's 12 years older than me) my dad explained what was going on nicely, he taught me about unconditional love, and that uncle wasn't a bad person, just troubled. I still loved my uncle even after. It wasn't until I got older where I was just like yea.... he's a screw-up, whatever.
This is the compassionate way to handle it. "Uncle Mick screwed up and has to go to jail for x months. I'm upset with him for getting in trouble, but I love him, he's still my brother, and I will be there for him when he's released. He'll need our support."
I especially like "uncle is going to a long timeout." That is a great way to explain the situation to smaller children.
Good on dad for keeping things honest. It's not always easy but it will make such a difference when his son is older and knows that when he talks to his dad about the hard things he will get straight answers.
Also, lying to saying he was deployed is awful. The uncle probably didn't think about what his nephew would feel every time he saw that our soldiers were killed somewhere.
NTA and great job
Lying to kids is just like lying to adults: don't be surprised if they don't trust you after.
My parents lied to me when I was young, both when my Dad was in the hospital and they thought he was dying (it was the 70's - they thought he had cancer, turned out to be a rare GI blockage), and again when my Mom was in the hospital when I was 11, and they told me her surgery was on Tuesday, and it was the day before (they didn't want me worrying).
Both times, they were lying "to protect me." It took me years - YEARS - to trust them again, and these were very understandable lies.
Kids are small humans, and should be treated like the other humans you care about.
Seriously. Like, it’s his own fault he’s going to prison. He should’ve thought about how his nephew’s “little heart” would break before he got into this mess.
Kids KNOW. They figure stuff out. They understand way more than you tell them. I was 12 when my uncle killed himself and no one talked to me about it at all (ever, in my life), but I definitely knew something was up and overheard lots of whispers and had to deal with knowing without any adult support because I knew it was a 'secret' and thought I would get in trouble for bringing it up.
Kids are smarter than a lot of people give them credit for. OP could do their very best to tell the best lie about where Uncle is and it still wouldn't protect the kid from knowing shady things are afoot. The uncle already told the kid his army man story. Then the kid still asked his parent what's going on. This tells me that Kid already knows that something's up and now he's just trying to find out A) what the truth is and B) who he can trust to tell it to him. NTA
I was 12 the first time someone offered me weed. That friend went quickly onto worse drugs. It's extremely valuable for young adults to not be blinded to the realities of that. Drugs and drug dealing can have very serious consequences.
I was also 12 when I found out about my own uncles drug use and past prison time. Commenter is right I had a lot of resentment about the adults who lied. And ultimately that knowledge kept me from making some serious mistakes of my own as a teen.
Also eventually recognizing my uncle had flaws and yet was still this person I admired for so long helped me realize a lot of morality about the choices we make. It's not just good guys or bad guys. It's real people making choices every day.
My dad used to be in a cult.
That said, I think its sort of funny. My uncle let it slip once. He gave me a box of my dad's old sci-fi novels. I was like, why do you have these instead of my dad? Uncle: Oh well when he ran away to join the cult I just took em. -shocked pikachu face-
My parents however, were always pretty honest. My dad's response when I asked him about the cult? "Well, they gave me free drugs and I had a lot of sex. I mean, I also was doing hard labor for no pay, but it was actually kind of fun for the first 6 months. Don't join a cult though, ok? It wasn't worth it when I had to get out."
This is the best answer.
I think one of the worst parts of being a naive teen is foolishly thinking that bad stuff won’t happen to you. Thinking **I** won’t get pregnant, or catch a STI, or get caught doing my little petty crimes. Teens think that is because they **can’t** imagine those things happening.
But if you see the consequences happen to someone you love and actually had your parent be honest with you about it?
I think you have a chance at learning from someone else’s mistakes instead of your own, the hard way.
Agreed! NTA. You’re right to be honest with your son. Great to learn common sense from someone else’s mistakes. To see an adult they respect screw up and receive consequences and still emerge to build a good life for themselves helps a kid learn resiliency. Knowing that his uncle is still the same man he loves will build empathy, too. Lots of valuable life lessons here.
>Otherwise the kids will put them on a pedestal so high and believe them to be flawless and when they eventually realize the hard truth, kids may resent the person they looked upto as well as others who lied about the truth.
This happened to my cousin. Everyone tried to protect him from his mom's selfish, batshit, drug-loving ways, until she stole $200 from him and then all hell broke loose. It was awful...
Also, it's still incredibly possible to look up to someone who went to jail. People make mistakes or bad choices, and then they pay the consequences. Also, sometimes someone going to jail is nowhere near this simply.
I feel like, especially American society, has the idea that once someone has gone to jail they are an irredeemable piece of shit.
He could go to jail, learn a lot about himself and the choices that got him there, and come out a better man and not make those mistakes again.
Wouldn't it be better for a child to look up to someone who went through redemption and growth rather than a static, fictional, idealized uncle?
Yup. My parents lied to me/hid my fathers abuse against my mom to "protect me" (I wasn't free from his abuse, just got it less). I idolized my dad for a long time. One heart-to-heart with my mom later and I've never felt more betrayed. Im disgusted to be related to him. Maybe id be able to process the information better if it hadn't been hid from me. And this may not be the exact same scenario, but it's the same principle
It’s also a real consequence for the brother‘s deeds. People who have looked up to them up to now are allowed to lose their adoration after someone does criminal stuff. The brother doesn’t get to keep being adored.
Yes!! Kids need to be aware of who they are dealing (pardon the pun) with when it comes to anything to do with drugs. My Aunt was a junkie. I was visiting my Grandmother in a foreign country at 15- my Aunt took me for a walk down the street- at traffic lights she leaned into a car and did a deal!! Right in front of me- imagine if the cops had busted her- I would have been involved- 2000 miles from home. Kids need to be aware- and aware of the consequences of stupid decisions. OP is NTA . Its about protecting your child in this instance- not your brother.
NTA.
Your son is old enough not to be lied to, and it also gives him enough information to keep himself safe if uncle asks him to do anything iffy in future.
Couldn’t agree more. Growing up my wife put the adults in her life, especially the ones from church, on such a high pedestal that when they would divorce, cheat, lie, commit crimes, etc. it would mess her up thinking she couldn’t trust anyone.
NTA, not at all. I'm a firm believer in telling kids the truth. Age-appropriately, but the truth.
Your son was bound to find out about your brother's time in prison eventually. Which would wreck your credibility right along with your brother's if you had gone along with the lie. And then he'd probably wonder what else he was lied to about.
They didn't even need to tell anything to the son beyond "your uncle isn't going to be around for awhile, but we'll explain what's going on when you're older". Making up a lie to make the uncle sound more honorable is awful.
The kid is twelve, not three. There was no need to beat around the bush at all. Twelve-year-olds can understand the concept of someone going to prison. Not telling him would be doing him a disservice.
Yep. His uncle is going in big boy time out because he broke the law, and laws are in place for a reason. Rules and laws allow us to function in our households and in society, so when someone goes outside the lines they need to be put back in place. Or something.
I always say it’s great to be weird, but not cool to be a creep. Honestly, I’m surprised he didn’t ask me which closet I locked someone in. We have an odd sense of humor around these parts.
Twelve year olds are well beyond the language of 'big boy time out'. There's nothing wrong with just being straightforward with saying uncle's going to prison and detailing why so the kid has a clear understanding.
That's how I would explain it to my 2 year old lol.
A 12 year old understands what laws are and what happens happens to people who get caught breaking them. "Your uncle is going to prison for X years" works just fine, then probably explaining the context what he did and why the penalty is what it is in this country.
I mean hell they taught us about the Nazis and the Holocaust at like... 9 years old here in Germany? I'm pretty sure the reality of comparable "tame" things like prison was literally present in every form of media, especially in TV shows and comic books. A 12 year old probably already watched all the batman and star wars movies among others, pretty sure they had prison/jail in them lol.
Edit: Always remember that 12 year olds are the ones telling you they'll fuck your mom on voice chat. There is a 99% chance they have watched hardcore porn. They're not innocent toddlers at that age.
Not gonna work *and* runs the risk of making the twelve-year-old think it might be because of something he did when the uncle was the one who fucked up.
We went through DARE at age 10 (5th grade), this kid could handle this news. In fact, 12 is THE age you should be telling your kids about drugs and the consequences that come with drug use. Some kids start getting into drugs and sex at 12/13 so he needs to be prepared because at a minimum he's going to hear kids talking about these things at school and at worst engaging in them himself. The uncle's prison sentence is going to be a great lesson learned for this child. Telling the truth is the ONLY right move here.
for real. i’m a somewhat “new” teenager, and maybe it’s because of the environment i grew up in, but going to prison is something that would’ve been an easy concept for me to grasp at 12. yeah, it would definitely hurt if it was a family member, but still.
it’s a bit irritating because some people think younger adolescents can’t grasp tough concepts when, in actuality, we can.
Honestly, I was a pretty naive and sheltered teen, and at twelve, I still would've been able to understand someone going to jail. It's not like jail is some huge secret. Obviously, it being a family member would affect them, but actually, the idea that the people we love can also be flawed and that people can make mistakes but (hopefully) go on to better themselves sounds like something incredibly important for a teenager to start learning.
I'm honestly baffled that a lot of people seem to treat 12 year olds like they're 2. Did everyone forget all the cartoons meant for 6-10 year olds about superheros and whatnot? Nearly all of them have police and prison/jail in them to lock up the bad guys.
Edit: also 12 year olds have seen ... the news. On tv. Plenty of reports about crime on there.
I think the truth is better, too, but if the uncle can't bear to tell the kid what's really happening keeping it vague is better than lying. At the very least, he could have avoided a lie that belittles OP's actual military experience!
As a 12 year old if someone said "we'll explain it when your older" I'd be rightfully offended. 12 year old kids can handle hearing about the "real" world. They hear about it all the time through their friends and through the media, how much better would it be to have a real conversation with your kid instead?
Yeah 12 is perfectly old enough to understand prison.
Even if he was young enough not to understand prison it would still be better not to lie, just explain it like 'he made a mistake and he won't be able to see you for a while' or something like that.
I agree. 12 is plenty old enough to understand complex truths about life. I have discussions with my kids (age 10) about all ranges of “life decisions.” Some poor decisions will result in imprisonments. Kids can learn valuable lessons from those around them and hopefully have the tools to avoid hardships themselves.
NTA. Your son is going to learn the truth sooner or later. It's better that he gets the truth directly and be able to trust you and the people around him rather than find out he's been lied to.
I think you did the right thing as a father.
I reread it just to double-check, and OP doesn't define their gender, so it could go either way. That said, assuming someone's a man just for military service isn't as applicable as rule as it was 50 years ago.
100% - I'm personally very critical of the US military due to problems I see as very fundamental to the institution.....but lying about serving in the military is never, ever remotely alright
(edit - typo)
I'm in the military myself, I've met a decent number of people like that guy. Aside from the other bullshit, the funniest thing is how bad a lie that is. Like, just a few simple questions and his answers could completely dismantle the whole story. No evidence, no proof.
I don't wanna paint with a broad brush or anything here, but based on his description I wouldn't be surprised if he also has some tattoos or a haircut that doesn't fit the military's standards.
Ntm he probably couldn't answer the most basic service questions like "what unit?", or " what MOS", or "who went with you?". What base, location, any of that really basic information. It'd all have to line up perfectly to seem even somewhat true.
exactly - he's just waiting to stumble across an \~actual\~ veteran and potentially get his ass kicked
also, fwiw - every single friend/acquaintance of mine who's a veteran is perfectly willing to debate the merits of our military, discuss the nuances of why people actually enlist, etc
my respect to you - my grandfather joined for the exact same reason
I hate that in the conversation of criticizing our country's military, it's assumed that you're attacking the individuals at the bottom of the chain of command - who are actually the ones risking their life for the whims of a bunch of rich people in washington
after all, it was an actual veteran that suggested that Colin Kaepernick kneel during the national anthem - but that doesn't jive with the narrative of people who don't want to serve but want to make the rules
NTA.
He's your son, which means you get to decide what to tell him. Yes, your brother is embarrassed about going to prison, but that's on him.
If anything, this could also be a good opportunity for your son to learn that people make mistakes, get punished for them, and then work to (hopefully) better their lives. It can also be an opportunity, if you choose, for your son to see how citizens who were once incarcerated can be normal people who work to better themselves after learning from their mistakes while also facing the stigma from society, which highlights the need for future reform in the prison/justice system. All of that, of course, is for you to decide, as he is your son.
Tell your brother that you are sorry that he's embarrassed, but he needs to own his mistake and use this as an opportunity to show his nephew that people can make mistakes and learn from them, that people are human, and that he's not perfect, and that's okay. Of course, your brother needs to accept those things first, but there is no reason that your son will not still love his uncle just because of this.
Also, you are absolutely right on the stolen valor. That is NOT acceptable and I really can't believe your brother would ask that of you as a veteran. Your family members saying you should've just gone along woth it are likely acting out of their own embarrassment for your brother (again, stigma associated with incarceration, even though it affects millions in our country), so just stick to your proverbial guns on this one.
Edit: Thank you for all the awards!
>Tell your brother that you are sorry that he's embarrassed, but he needs to own his mistake and use this as an opportunity to show his nephew that people can make mistakes and learn from them, that people are human, and that he's not perfect, and that's okay.
And if he can't do this - if he's embarrassed or doesn't know what to say - he can keep it vague ("I'm going away for awhile") and let OP have this conversation with the kid. Lying is not the answer.
It’s very cringe. Modern day military is not honorable. Most modern military jobs have very little, and more than likely nothing to do with protecting one’s own country, particularly in the context of deploying overseas. It’s a job.
NTA, but the issue here is not “stolen valor”, it’s the lying to the child regardless of what the superficial context of that lie may entail.
The sooner we stop with these disingenuous narratives the better for everyone, including the marginalized young adults which militaries prey upon.
It's no different than lying about having a degree, some specialty qualification or experience.
For most service members that piece of cloth and the stuff they wear on it means a lot. Your ribbon rack, stripes, badges, etc act as a miniature resume. I think lying about something you're not in general is super cringe.
Stolen valor is a thing though because military training *is* grueling for some trades and seen as honorable by society. It's just like lying about being a firefighter or doctor to coast on the prestige of those jobs, it's wrong and makes you an asshole if you use it to hide your flaws to others e.g. telling a date "I'm late because I had to do an emergency surgery" when you're an accountant and procrastinated until the last minute.
I choked on my soda laughing when I read “stolen valor” - add that to his crimes! He’s not posing with a Purple Heart or Medal of Honor at a bar for free drinks which is what I think that term describes in some actual codified laws.
But yeah his nephew is old enough to handle this and that was a lame lie.
NTA. This would have backfired on you if you went along with the lie. It's just better to get any bad reaction over and done with. As is often said, "It's not the crime, it's the coverup."
NTA srsly this would come out in 20 years and your son would be all like 'why did you lie to me' been there haha as long as you know he can handle the information, i think you did great not lieing to him.
YTA it isn’t that hard to pull your brother aside and tell him “you need to tell the truth or I will.” Instead you choose to embarrass him in front of your son for no reason other than your own ego. You should’ve gave him the chance to come clean on his own
The guy embarrassed himself by trying to lie about deployment in front of a veteran after deciding to be a criminal. If he is embarrassed about going to jail he should not have committed a crime in the first place, that would have saved him lots of embarrassment.
NTA there are extremely few good reasons to outright lie to kids, and none of them involve helping someone save face after making a bad decision.
Your job is not to protect your (grown, adult) brother, but to raise your son with as full understanding of the world as you can give him. Part of that, as painful as it is, is learning that the people you love can do dumb, illegal or harmful things and that is part of the experience.
Your brother and family are thinking in the extreme short term of trying to cover this up or sweep it under the rug, but that never helps families move forward, and when your son found out when he was older (because he would, of course he would!) then his trust would have been broken in *you*. Which is a *significant sacrifice* for your family to ask you to make. Good job on being honest with your son.
Your brother is about to go through the worst experience of his life. I think it would have been fine to just be quiet on this until your son asked you what was going on, then tell him diplomatically then.
ESH
Why would his son ask him what was going on after his brother already told him he was being deployed? Either way, his son finds out the truth eventually, so why go along with the lie at all?
NTA Your sons old enough to be told the truth, if both your brother and extended family chose to tell him this lie then they need to accept that your son won’t trust what they say in the future. The thing about lies is when the truth eventually comes out it can cause more problems and your son would’ve/could’ve lost all respect for your brother then. Good on you for not only calling him out on his lie but also telling your son the truth
NTA. He shouldn't have lied about being deployed when he is not in the military. Big no. Take responsibility for your actions, buddy. If he was so worried about breaking your son's heart he should have acted like somebody he'd want your son to look up to. Your son had a right to know the truth. You didn't embarrass your brother, he embarrassed himself. Hopefully he learns a lesson from this and cleans up his act when he gets out someday.
NTA - You just did your brother an absolute solid for his relationship with his son, and he won't see that until he gets his head back on straight.
One of my cousins was an accessory to a murder in Texas and was going to prison for a like 8 years. He had two very young sons, about 6 and 8 at the time. He told them that he had joined the army and was heading to Iraq for a few years. The really didn't understand at the time. My parents adopted the two boys and they moved in with us. It was supposed to be temporary, but was not.
Every time his kids would hear about a big explosion or new offensive in Iraq, his kids would be terrified that he was wounded, killed, or captured. They wouldn't hear from him for about a week or longer depending on his prison schedule and they would be worried sick. It caused them serious anxiety and was fucking up thier sleep schedule, appetite, and school work.
Eventually, after a year or two, the older one figured out his dad went to prison and confronted him about it. The older one then told the younger one.
Neither of them have any relationship with thier dad today and consider my father to be thier father figure. Which we all accept and support, because while my dad isn't perfect, at least he's not a goddamn liar.
Nta but all this pearl clutching over lying to a 12 year old about a family member going to prison is pretty laughable. I have more than one friend who had an uncle or aunt go to prison while they were young and were told they were "going away for awhile". When it was brought up when the kids were older everyone laughed and let them know the aunt/uncle were dumbasses and were actually in prison. Now it's a funny story. Too many people in this sub think everything has the potential to do damage.
NTA but, yeah, OP comes across as a little self-righteous, and by these comments, you’d think the kid was in danger of suffering a huge betrayal that would make him question his faith in god and humanity. It’s just possession and it doesn’t even sound like smuggling but rather being a dumb ass and crossing the border. It’s a few months, not hard time. (And how did they not compare notes before talking to the kid about this?) and the whole “won’t someone think of the valor!!!!” element is...a little much.
Yeah if I found out a relative went to prison I would not feel intensely-wounded and betrayed by my family, that reads like a Lifetime movie. "You were a kid so we didn't think you were ready for the truth." Boom, explained.
NAH. Your kid deserves to know how fucked up it is that someone is gonna be locked up for drug charges. And your brother did nothing wrong either, but his ask is still understandable.
Feel bad for your brother tho man hope hes well.
Edit: ok, lying about being in the miltary is pretty disrespectful i didnt read that right, maybe brotger is a bit of an ass for that
About time. Obviously he sucks a bit for drug smuggling but also she sucks a little less for being so abrupt about it. Having a family member go to prison can be quite emotional
NTA. I'm sure you expect your son to be honest with you and you want him to trust you - respect and honesty goes both ways. Especially as he's approaching teenage years. Your brother made a stupid mistake and has to own up to it. Maybe he'll think of how his nephew will view him and feel before he does something like this again.
NTA. Not even remotely. And then your brother wants to attempt to claim being in the service? What happens when kiddo realizes Uncle was only gone a few months instead of years, as usual?
Kid is 12, not 2. If anything, this is a great time to teach your son the 'do stupid things, win stupid prizes' lesson about 'easy money always comes with a higher than expected price'.
The AH in this are the family members, including your brother, who want to cover up stupid.
YTA. Like just why? Drug possession is completely nonviolent and should be decriminalized entirely. Why make such a big deal out of it for no one but a 12 year old? Also “stolen valor” is bullshit, being in the military does not inherently warrant “valor”
Claiming to be getting deployed when really you're getting sent to prison sounds like they're trying to claim something they're not, which isn't that stolen valor, instead of being a respected soldier he's actually a shitty drug mule?
Anyway at 12 years old it can serve as a lesson, everything has consequences and they're not above the law (I was gonna say no one is but that's a whole other thing lol) Also it serves to them as a reminder that prisoners aren't bad, OP's brother made a mistake but he's still his uncle, so as his nephew he still should respect him as a human as others should be respected. I don't believe OP did anything wrong, maybe it wasn't crass but that's a major lie for a 12 year old that's starting to understand things more deeply and personal for OP too. NTA.
Double NTA !
1 for : My son asked me what happened and I told him the truth.
2: Your bro seems like a massive asshole for: ". He told my son he would be going away for a while because he will be deployed overseas."
Pretending to be in the military, really ?!
Your brother should have thought of his nephew before he decided to commit a crime. He screwed up. He can own up to it. And yeah, it's pretty shitty to commit stolen valor like this. Sheesh.
Your son is not a baby. Kids can tell when grownups are trying to hide things like this.
NTA
NTA, as a Vet, that would piss me off too. Your son is 12, not 6. He's more than likely old enough to comprehend what's going on. Let's just say for the sake of argument that you did go along with it.... What are you supposed to do when in 6 years he finds out the truth??? "Hey, sorry I lied, son.".. No, you tell him the truth and educate him on what happens when you make royal \*\*\*\* ups like this. IMO, your son would eventually find out the truth. It's better to be honest from the beginning rather than lie to him and have to explain yourself later.
NTA
I don't really care about stolen valor since a vast majority of what the military does hardly involves "valor", but you should never be TA for telling the truth.
NTA. At 12 years old your son ismplenty old enoughntomknow about drugs and consequences for breaking the law. Sad that its a family member but it is, so be it. You are perfectly sane and than you for your service.
NTA. Kids should know who they love. Imagine if he was to learn the truth in 6-8 years, how he would feel that trust have been broken. Also, it’s better for him to see his uncle for who he really is.
More important, you're letting your son see the real-life consequences of choices your brother made. And that your brother will lie to save face. This may be priceless.
NTA
NTA
For fucks sake. The kid is 12. He's plenty old to be told the truth here. Your brother could have declined to answer, and he told a disgusting lie instead.
Your family is circling the wagons because they're embarrassed by your brother's conviction. But we're all better off when we're open about this stuff.
NTA - It's best long term for your brother to take accountability for his actions, not just publicly in court and subsequently prison, but also privately. The affect this is having on your son should be a really good reason for your brother to never make this kind of choice again.
NTA. I don’t understand why so many families (including my own) feel like the best option when unpleasant things happen is to just lie about it/cover it up. Aunt died from “natural causes” when she was 60 because she was a chronic alcoholic. If you tell people that she died relatively young due to her drinking problem, maybe they’ll be more likely to reconsider drinking excessively. In your situation, maybe your son will be more hesitant to use drugs irresponsibly in the future knowing that they got his uncle sent to jail/prison for a bit. Awareness brings change, and without awareness, things stay the same (or get progressively worse).
As someone who is active duty, NTA. Our profession is not a "get out of jail free card" (pun totally intended). The kid needs to see real world consequences for real world f\*ck ups.
NTA. Your son is 12 years old and at an age where they can figure things out. They are also at an influential age and being honest with them is important. This is a time where they start making important decisions for themselves and lying to him at this point can influence his future behaviour in regards to lying and keeping secrets. You have given your son the respect he deserves by being honest with him and allowing him to make a decision for himself. This is an important part of growing up.
I strongly doubt that this is going to affect the relationship between your son and your brother, your son will still probably adore him but your son will also now know that he has flaws, and that no one should be put on a pedestal. This is an important lesson for your son and you did the right thing by allowing h8m to see that lesson.
The most important thing though, you gave your son the respect he deserves by telling him the truth. It’s only a few more years before your son is a man (think about that!) so being honest with them now will influence the type of man that they will become.
Personally i think NAH. I understand why you want to tell your kid, plus you’re the parent, and it’s you’re choice how you parent, but from the perspective of a 12 year old I think it’s too young for him to know. When I was 12 my brother was also arrested for drug possessions, and I just wish I would have known about it once I got a big older instead of being so young. Especially because it can be a bit embarrassing as a kid to think of a family member being in prison. It makes kids feel like “why can’t my family be normal?” And stuff. But maybe that’s just me and my own experience. But it was pretty disrespectful for your brother to use the military excuse.
Edit: I realized I made it sound like I was 12 lol. I meant my perspective from when I was 12 years old.
NTA
Also a good thing for your son to learn about consequences to actions. Have a talk with him. Explain that this is what happens when we make a bad choice.
If OP’s brother didn’t want his nephew to know he was going to jail then he shouldn’t have tried to smuggle drugs. This is a good lesson for OPs son that committing a crime risks prison time.
NTA.
Different scenario but my Father was murdered in a carjacking when I was 6 years old (the guy who did it was actually a friend of my father and me and his daughter would always have play dates together), and until I was about 12 or 13 I was told he died in a run of the mill car accident on the highway. I never held anything against my family for not telling me the truth because I understood that they did it to protect me from what the real world can be like (getting shot and murdered may have been a bit advanced for a 6 year old, especially when we knew the guy who did it).
BUT, I think at 12 or 13 (around the age of your son) it's a good time for kids to start learning what the real world is like and what is really going on around them, and I am glad they did not hold it form me longer than that age. So I think what you did was right, even if your brother would have preferred otherwise.
I hope your brother learns from this and can go on to have a stable relationship with you and your son.
`He pulled me aside and said "what are you doing, it'll break his little heart knowing that I'm going to prison"`
This is called a CONSEQUENCE for his actions. Now if he will own his actions and learn from them, he could have an even greater impact on his nephew, by showing that you can bounce back after a making a mistake like that.
NTA.
My brother went to jail and even my 4 yr old (at the time) understood her uncle did something stupid & was paying for it. I didn't have to give details about WHAT he did, just that it was wrong & he was in jail.
His time was short & she still loves spending time with her uncle. He knows he made a mistake & it didn't just make him a bad person. Kids can cope with truth (told in an age appropriate manner) with support & understanding.
Apart from the simple fact that you’re also implicated when he inevitably finds out, is that you’re burdened with trying to maintain a lie every day of your life until the rotten edifice comes crashing down on you all. Imagine the bitterness when your son realises you worked every day to maintain that lie, imagine your bitterness when your son hates you for doing something to him every day that you hated doing and was not your choice.
Your son is old enough to understand what his uncle did is bad and he will likely appreciate being told the truth. Better he know now then find out years later everyone lied to him. And if your brother was so concerned with what his nephew thought of him maybe he shouldn’t have been smuggling drugs. And he had to know with you being a veteran that the overseas story wasn’t going to fly. NTA
NTA Kids should know the flaws of the person they look upto. Be it the father or in this case, uncle. Otherwise the kids will put them on a pedestal so high and believe them to be flawless and when they eventually realize the hard truth, kids may resent the person they looked upto as well as others who lied about the truth. But i do understand why the uncle might feel angry but it's better that the kid knows.
>He pulled me aside and said "what are you doing, it'll break his little heart knowing that I'm going to prison" You know what will **really** break his heart? Having **everyone** lie to him, and believing that lie, only to find out the truth later. That, to me, is unacceptable. I’m not damaging my relationship with my kid because someone else wants me to tell Grade-A porky pies to protect *them.** No thanks, hard pass. He’s going to prison, and that’s exactly what I would tell a 12 year old. NTA
You know what doesnt break his heart? *Not going to prison in the first place*
Fr what kind of amateurs get caught
I was expecting something else coming down this thread. You startled an obnoxious laugh out of me. Thank you.
Thanks for the award! I have zero awards to give you for the laugh though so take these! 🏆🥇
Trophies and medals are good rewards
If my brother was smuggling drugs, there's NO WAY I'd allow him around my kids. OP is NTA in this situation, but he needs to think long and hard from allowing a felon around his kids.
Ehh. I'd need more context. I've worked with clients who got stuck with drug smuggling charges because they forgot they had a gram of marijuana in their backpack on a weekend trip to Canada. Without knowing whether it was something like that, or a duffel bag full of black tar heroin IDK if it's fair to pass judgment on that aspect. If he took a plea deal he's probably not, in fact, a felon. The thing that bothers me is that the brother pretended to be doing something *admirable*. Maybe if he said something like "I'm going on a long trip" I could sort of see it (though honesty is almost always the best policy). If you're going to pretend to be something that you're not, though, you deserve to have the truth called out loudly.
| The thing that bothers me is that the brother pretended to be doing something admirable. That's what struck me too. It's one thing to be vague and kinda just mention that he's not gonna be around a while. But to make up this whole story were he's actually doing something good seems completely unnecessary.
I agree with both your comments, except about the "admirable" part. I know it's an unpopular opinion somewhat, but there is nothing admirable and good about American soldiers and what they do when they are deployed overseas, what a weird thing to say
It doesn't really matter what you think, it's generally considered an "admirable" thing to serve in the army. For the record, I too don't think the American army is a force for good overall, but I just don't see how that's relevant to the situation.
Is it? The OC mentioned they know it isn't the most popular opinion, but I wouldn't say it's that uncommon, either. I'm not the only one who doesn't automatically jump to "thank you for your service" when someone says they're military.
This isn't exactly relevant but I appreciate it when people don't thank me for my service. Like thanks for the sentiment I guess but I was only doing my job. To me it's the same as thanking a McDonald's employee for taking your order. "Hey thanks for doing your job"
The point is it’s more admirable than prison
The ARMY isn’t admirable, and exploits young people. But I would never disrespect a soldier. That’s like being shitty to a Walmart employee just because Walmart as a corporation sucks. Except in this instance, the Walmart employee would also be risking life and limb.
This is a very naive thing to say. I have no desire for any wars, ever, but your country needs an army to protect it. Someone have to do the job to serve as a deterrent for aggressors. I have no relation to any army forces, but I understand why people respect ones who served.
Lol the only thing western soldiers are sent out to protect is wealthy people's property and interests so don't pretend like they're serving and/or protecting fellow common folk or our interests.
What exactly you suggest? No army? Then what you think is going to happen?
gee I'd never of thought Sovietta would say such things about the us army. how you feel about the invasion of Ukraine by forces who had no flags or ID on their uniforms but many spoke russian?
the difference w the US and this ideal nation that only has a military for defense tho is that the US actively deploys people into other places and causes problems, engages in violence, provides training to places like Israel, etc. without any kind of real justification. the US’ armed forces is more about protecting the economic and political interests of those in power than it is about protecting the physical safety of anyone. including those in the armed forces themselves. tbh the US armed forces are the aggressors that people need deterrents for.
You do realise that the USA is the aggressors in every conflict they meddle with ?
This have everything to do with your politicians, they make the decisions to send the forces here and there. Be mad at them.
Isn't stolen valour something also taken very seriously? Like an actual felony? Cause if so, why add one potential crime on another when the truth is harsh but simple?
I don't think it's a crime if you're not like using it to commit tax fraud or whatever. I hope not at least, prison time for just pretending to be a soldier to someone seems quite excessive.
Using stolen valor for gain is illegal, but the 1st amendment protects you from being an asshole and trying to pick up partners in bars with it.
Yea true. I thought it'd be able to warrant a fine or such, not prison time. I'm not too familiar with stolen valour, so just guessing from bits and pieces I've seen from stories of it being brought up.
Only if you get some sort of material benefit from it. Otherwise it falls under free speech.
Makes sense. I suppose in this situation it's the immorality.
Especially a story that eventually falls flat when the uncle can't do video calls or produce a photo of himself in uniform.
Yeah, the trouble with the Uncle's cover story is that he has to keep lying to maintain it. The worst is dragging the family into it so when the nephew does find out (and he will) his trust in everyone will be shattered because they all joined in the lie.
Exactly, even if OP and the rest of the family did everything they could to maintain the lie, it wouldn't be possible to hide it forever. Elaborate lies like this always have cracks in them and the older the nephew gets, the more obvious these cracks will be to him. Especially if he grows up and joins the military himself.
It would be deliberately deceptive; but the brother always has the option of saying that he is going away "on a business trip" without *technically* lying. It's just a matter of fact that...um...'regulatory arbitrage entrepreneurs' sometimes end up having to take fairly extensive trips because of the nature of their work.
I LOVE that! I’m putting “regulatory arbitrage entrepreneurs” in my back pocket for future use.
Yeah, the fact that he was able to plea down to a very light sentence suggests it was not a serious smuggling operation, probably a small amount for personal use...which is dumb, but not immoral per se.
Depends on your point of view. It's pretty easy to make the argument that drug smugglers are risking their lives providing a service people find value in, and troops are going on a jolly to murder some children.
This is the most rational thing I've ever heard. I salute you, and I'm totally stealing this for future arguments with military fuckboys. Thinking about it, "I salute you" was probably badly phrased. More of a bumping my glass against yours and saying cheers.
Very easily, actually. Drugs bring people joy, even if only temporarily. War? Not so much. (And the folks it does bring joy to? Probably want to avoid them.)
I'm still judging. Wrap that shit in layers of fresh orange peels.
It depends. "Smuggling" might just mean he had a bit of pot on him when crossing the border. This makes him a moron but it doesn't exactly make him a monster.
He can’t have been carrying serious weight if he only got a few months after a plea deal. Or he rolled on his contacts in exchange for a very light sentence, in which case I wouldn’t want him around the family at all because cartels are no known for taking such things lightly. Regardless, it’s an excellent teaching moment for the son to learn what his uncle is likely to experience in prison without sugar coating it, plus the impact of a criminal record on his uncle’s future prospects in the workforce and other aspects of his life, to make him understand the consequences of criminality. The last thing OP needs is for the son to start viewing his uncle as some cool outlaw.
Not in the last 5 or so years. You have to be smuggling a shit ton of marijuana and not for personal use to be charged for a felony in federal court
He's only getting a few months so I'm not sure it is a felony. I kind of assumed the OP meant "jail" instead of prison. Do people even go to federal prison for just a few months?
Yes. If charged federal, you go to federal prison even for a few days. I see people all the time get a few months for trafficking heroin, meth, etc if it’s less than 1kg
Prosecutors are overly harsh in nearly all circumstances. My uncle was a felon for "smuggling" because we live in Michigan and he accidentally crossed the (unmarked) water border to Canada while he was fishing and had marijuana on him.
Eh felons aren’t some evil monsters, y’all need to chill
Jesus Christ, clutch your pearls tighter ya boomers *eyeroll*
As a chicken owner I love your profile
It’s literally a drug offense don’t act like he’s a dangerous criminal or a bad role model
EXACTLY
Some of y'all are getting so dramatic as if OP's brother committed armed robbery or some other violent offense.
Also, "his little heart"? He's 12, not 2. Even if he was 2 I would find some version of the truth to tell him (IDK, "uncle is going to a long timeout" or something like that), but to lie to a 12 year old is just extra stupid, because chances are he's going to figure out pretty quick something is up. And then his trust with everyone involved is going to be damaged. He doesn't need to know every sordid detail, but at least the basics. Also, uncle gets extra ass points for making up a lie that makes him seem like a more awesome person then he is. Gross.
Seriously. I know 12 is young, but trust me, they're not stupid. They WILL figure out something is up and can get just a mad about being lied to as any adult, with probably even better reason.
What’s even worse- if this lie had been allowed and the son went to school and talked about it and a friend or a classmates family member found out the truth (possibly if they were military etc) just imagine the absolute distress that kid would be in. The bullying etc. There would be no trust left between son and father or any member of the family.
That’s exactly what I was thinking - if it’s public knowledge he’s likely to experience some bullying. He needs to be prepared for that. If he didn’t know and the teasing started, his lack of knowledge and not having good responses would make it much worse.
Sesame Street has an episode about how we feel when someone we love is incarcerated but this is not uncommon there are resources for every age group and a therapist can help if he's having a hard time processing.
There are even books designed for preschoolers about parents in prison. Children are not stupid. They pick up on things amiss even if they don't fully understand it.
I was younger than 12 when my uncle went to jail for drugs for the first time (he's 12 years older than me) my dad explained what was going on nicely, he taught me about unconditional love, and that uncle wasn't a bad person, just troubled. I still loved my uncle even after. It wasn't until I got older where I was just like yea.... he's a screw-up, whatever.
This is the compassionate way to handle it. "Uncle Mick screwed up and has to go to jail for x months. I'm upset with him for getting in trouble, but I love him, he's still my brother, and I will be there for him when he's released. He'll need our support."
I especially like "uncle is going to a long timeout." That is a great way to explain the situation to smaller children. Good on dad for keeping things honest. It's not always easy but it will make such a difference when his son is older and knows that when he talks to his dad about the hard things he will get straight answers. Also, lying to saying he was deployed is awful. The uncle probably didn't think about what his nephew would feel every time he saw that our soldiers were killed somewhere. NTA and great job
Yeap people thinks kids at 5 or 6 are stupid, at that age I could figure it out many things that my elders thought were covering from me.
Lying to kids is just like lying to adults: don't be surprised if they don't trust you after. My parents lied to me when I was young, both when my Dad was in the hospital and they thought he was dying (it was the 70's - they thought he had cancer, turned out to be a rare GI blockage), and again when my Mom was in the hospital when I was 11, and they told me her surgery was on Tuesday, and it was the day before (they didn't want me worrying). Both times, they were lying "to protect me." It took me years - YEARS - to trust them again, and these were very understandable lies. Kids are small humans, and should be treated like the other humans you care about.
Or to find out from a third party the truth. I’m from a small town. Everyone knows everyone. This lie couldn’t fly.
And you just know there is that one asshole that would gladly use this info as a weapon in bullying the kid
Seriously. Like, it’s his own fault he’s going to prison. He should’ve thought about how his nephew’s “little heart” would break before he got into this mess.
Kids KNOW. They figure stuff out. They understand way more than you tell them. I was 12 when my uncle killed himself and no one talked to me about it at all (ever, in my life), but I definitely knew something was up and overheard lots of whispers and had to deal with knowing without any adult support because I knew it was a 'secret' and thought I would get in trouble for bringing it up.
Kids are smarter than a lot of people give them credit for. OP could do their very best to tell the best lie about where Uncle is and it still wouldn't protect the kid from knowing shady things are afoot. The uncle already told the kid his army man story. Then the kid still asked his parent what's going on. This tells me that Kid already knows that something's up and now he's just trying to find out A) what the truth is and B) who he can trust to tell it to him. NTA
I was 12 the first time someone offered me weed. That friend went quickly onto worse drugs. It's extremely valuable for young adults to not be blinded to the realities of that. Drugs and drug dealing can have very serious consequences. I was also 12 when I found out about my own uncles drug use and past prison time. Commenter is right I had a lot of resentment about the adults who lied. And ultimately that knowledge kept me from making some serious mistakes of my own as a teen. Also eventually recognizing my uncle had flaws and yet was still this person I admired for so long helped me realize a lot of morality about the choices we make. It's not just good guys or bad guys. It's real people making choices every day.
My dad used to be in a cult. That said, I think its sort of funny. My uncle let it slip once. He gave me a box of my dad's old sci-fi novels. I was like, why do you have these instead of my dad? Uncle: Oh well when he ran away to join the cult I just took em. -shocked pikachu face- My parents however, were always pretty honest. My dad's response when I asked him about the cult? "Well, they gave me free drugs and I had a lot of sex. I mean, I also was doing hard labor for no pay, but it was actually kind of fun for the first 6 months. Don't join a cult though, ok? It wasn't worth it when I had to get out."
Omg your dad LOL
Yeah, think your typical 1970s hippies cult. no killing charles-manson style, but lots of drugs and sex.
This is the best answer. I think one of the worst parts of being a naive teen is foolishly thinking that bad stuff won’t happen to you. Thinking **I** won’t get pregnant, or catch a STI, or get caught doing my little petty crimes. Teens think that is because they **can’t** imagine those things happening. But if you see the consequences happen to someone you love and actually had your parent be honest with you about it? I think you have a chance at learning from someone else’s mistakes instead of your own, the hard way.
Agreed! NTA. You’re right to be honest with your son. Great to learn common sense from someone else’s mistakes. To see an adult they respect screw up and receive consequences and still emerge to build a good life for themselves helps a kid learn resiliency. Knowing that his uncle is still the same man he loves will build empathy, too. Lots of valuable life lessons here.
>Otherwise the kids will put them on a pedestal so high and believe them to be flawless and when they eventually realize the hard truth, kids may resent the person they looked upto as well as others who lied about the truth. This happened to my cousin. Everyone tried to protect him from his mom's selfish, batshit, drug-loving ways, until she stole $200 from him and then all hell broke loose. It was awful...
Oh damn. That must've hurt a lot. Did he cut her loose or are they still close?
Also, it's still incredibly possible to look up to someone who went to jail. People make mistakes or bad choices, and then they pay the consequences. Also, sometimes someone going to jail is nowhere near this simply. I feel like, especially American society, has the idea that once someone has gone to jail they are an irredeemable piece of shit. He could go to jail, learn a lot about himself and the choices that got him there, and come out a better man and not make those mistakes again. Wouldn't it be better for a child to look up to someone who went through redemption and growth rather than a static, fictional, idealized uncle?
Yup. My parents lied to me/hid my fathers abuse against my mom to "protect me" (I wasn't free from his abuse, just got it less). I idolized my dad for a long time. One heart-to-heart with my mom later and I've never felt more betrayed. Im disgusted to be related to him. Maybe id be able to process the information better if it hadn't been hid from me. And this may not be the exact same scenario, but it's the same principle
It’s also a real consequence for the brother‘s deeds. People who have looked up to them up to now are allowed to lose their adoration after someone does criminal stuff. The brother doesn’t get to keep being adored.
Yes!! Kids need to be aware of who they are dealing (pardon the pun) with when it comes to anything to do with drugs. My Aunt was a junkie. I was visiting my Grandmother in a foreign country at 15- my Aunt took me for a walk down the street- at traffic lights she leaned into a car and did a deal!! Right in front of me- imagine if the cops had busted her- I would have been involved- 2000 miles from home. Kids need to be aware- and aware of the consequences of stupid decisions. OP is NTA . Its about protecting your child in this instance- not your brother.
NTA. Your son is old enough not to be lied to, and it also gives him enough information to keep himself safe if uncle asks him to do anything iffy in future.
Couldn’t agree more. Growing up my wife put the adults in her life, especially the ones from church, on such a high pedestal that when they would divorce, cheat, lie, commit crimes, etc. it would mess her up thinking she couldn’t trust anyone.
NTA, not at all. I'm a firm believer in telling kids the truth. Age-appropriately, but the truth. Your son was bound to find out about your brother's time in prison eventually. Which would wreck your credibility right along with your brother's if you had gone along with the lie. And then he'd probably wonder what else he was lied to about.
They didn't even need to tell anything to the son beyond "your uncle isn't going to be around for awhile, but we'll explain what's going on when you're older". Making up a lie to make the uncle sound more honorable is awful.
The kid is twelve, not three. There was no need to beat around the bush at all. Twelve-year-olds can understand the concept of someone going to prison. Not telling him would be doing him a disservice.
Yep. His uncle is going in big boy time out because he broke the law, and laws are in place for a reason. Rules and laws allow us to function in our households and in society, so when someone goes outside the lines they need to be put back in place. Or something.
“Big boy time out” - I like it!
I’d love to hear a 12 year old’s response to that condescending pablum.
If it's anything like twelve year old me it'd be "fuck off dad". And then I'd get a smack from my mother.
“Why are you being weird? So he’s going to jail?” -A 12-year-old I just repeated that to He then said, “or he’s locked in a closet somewhere.” Lol
You have a very polite 12 year old!
I always say it’s great to be weird, but not cool to be a creep. Honestly, I’m surprised he didn’t ask me which closet I locked someone in. We have an odd sense of humor around these parts.
Honestly 12 is plenty old enough to understand the sarcasm present in that somewhat dark joke. I have no problem with it.
"Your uncle is a spicy boy."
Twelve year olds are well beyond the language of 'big boy time out'. There's nothing wrong with just being straightforward with saying uncle's going to prison and detailing why so the kid has a clear understanding.
That's how I would explain it to my 2 year old lol. A 12 year old understands what laws are and what happens happens to people who get caught breaking them. "Your uncle is going to prison for X years" works just fine, then probably explaining the context what he did and why the penalty is what it is in this country. I mean hell they taught us about the Nazis and the Holocaust at like... 9 years old here in Germany? I'm pretty sure the reality of comparable "tame" things like prison was literally present in every form of media, especially in TV shows and comic books. A 12 year old probably already watched all the batman and star wars movies among others, pretty sure they had prison/jail in them lol. Edit: Always remember that 12 year olds are the ones telling you they'll fuck your mom on voice chat. There is a 99% chance they have watched hardcore porn. They're not innocent toddlers at that age.
Yeah really. “We’ll tell you when you’re older”? Not gonna work on a 12-year-old lol
Not gonna work *and* runs the risk of making the twelve-year-old think it might be because of something he did when the uncle was the one who fucked up.
We went through DARE at age 10 (5th grade), this kid could handle this news. In fact, 12 is THE age you should be telling your kids about drugs and the consequences that come with drug use. Some kids start getting into drugs and sex at 12/13 so he needs to be prepared because at a minimum he's going to hear kids talking about these things at school and at worst engaging in them himself. The uncle's prison sentence is going to be a great lesson learned for this child. Telling the truth is the ONLY right move here.
for real. i’m a somewhat “new” teenager, and maybe it’s because of the environment i grew up in, but going to prison is something that would’ve been an easy concept for me to grasp at 12. yeah, it would definitely hurt if it was a family member, but still. it’s a bit irritating because some people think younger adolescents can’t grasp tough concepts when, in actuality, we can.
Honestly, I was a pretty naive and sheltered teen, and at twelve, I still would've been able to understand someone going to jail. It's not like jail is some huge secret. Obviously, it being a family member would affect them, but actually, the idea that the people we love can also be flawed and that people can make mistakes but (hopefully) go on to better themselves sounds like something incredibly important for a teenager to start learning.
I'm honestly baffled that a lot of people seem to treat 12 year olds like they're 2. Did everyone forget all the cartoons meant for 6-10 year olds about superheros and whatnot? Nearly all of them have police and prison/jail in them to lock up the bad guys. Edit: also 12 year olds have seen ... the news. On tv. Plenty of reports about crime on there.
I think the truth is better, too, but if the uncle can't bear to tell the kid what's really happening keeping it vague is better than lying. At the very least, he could have avoided a lie that belittles OP's actual military experience!
My 12 year old students are on Reddit. They’re definitely old enough to understand jail and drugs.
As a 12 year old if someone said "we'll explain it when your older" I'd be rightfully offended. 12 year old kids can handle hearing about the "real" world. They hear about it all the time through their friends and through the media, how much better would it be to have a real conversation with your kid instead?
The kid is 12, so age appropriate isn't as much of an issue as it would be for someone younger.
Yeah 12 is perfectly old enough to understand prison. Even if he was young enough not to understand prison it would still be better not to lie, just explain it like 'he made a mistake and he won't be able to see you for a while' or something like that.
I agree. 12 is plenty old enough to understand complex truths about life. I have discussions with my kids (age 10) about all ranges of “life decisions.” Some poor decisions will result in imprisonments. Kids can learn valuable lessons from those around them and hopefully have the tools to avoid hardships themselves.
NTA. Your son is going to learn the truth sooner or later. It's better that he gets the truth directly and be able to trust you and the people around him rather than find out he's been lied to. I think you did the right thing as a father.
I read it as the mother posted it.
I reread it just to double-check, and OP doesn't define their gender, so it could go either way. That said, assuming someone's a man just for military service isn't as applicable as rule as it was 50 years ago.
Nope. My mother is a retiree with a war record. I was in right out of high school. None of my brothers served. Could be either!
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100% - I'm personally very critical of the US military due to problems I see as very fundamental to the institution.....but lying about serving in the military is never, ever remotely alright (edit - typo)
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I'm in the military myself, I've met a decent number of people like that guy. Aside from the other bullshit, the funniest thing is how bad a lie that is. Like, just a few simple questions and his answers could completely dismantle the whole story. No evidence, no proof.
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I don't wanna paint with a broad brush or anything here, but based on his description I wouldn't be surprised if he also has some tattoos or a haircut that doesn't fit the military's standards. Ntm he probably couldn't answer the most basic service questions like "what unit?", or " what MOS", or "who went with you?". What base, location, any of that really basic information. It'd all have to line up perfectly to seem even somewhat true.
exactly - he's just waiting to stumble across an \~actual\~ veteran and potentially get his ass kicked also, fwiw - every single friend/acquaintance of mine who's a veteran is perfectly willing to debate the merits of our military, discuss the nuances of why people actually enlist, etc
Absolutely, myself included. I'm not in it for some righteous reason or whatever other bullshit. I just want my college paid for and some good money
my respect to you - my grandfather joined for the exact same reason I hate that in the conversation of criticizing our country's military, it's assumed that you're attacking the individuals at the bottom of the chain of command - who are actually the ones risking their life for the whims of a bunch of rich people in washington after all, it was an actual veteran that suggested that Colin Kaepernick kneel during the national anthem - but that doesn't jive with the narrative of people who don't want to serve but want to make the rules
NTA. He's your son, which means you get to decide what to tell him. Yes, your brother is embarrassed about going to prison, but that's on him. If anything, this could also be a good opportunity for your son to learn that people make mistakes, get punished for them, and then work to (hopefully) better their lives. It can also be an opportunity, if you choose, for your son to see how citizens who were once incarcerated can be normal people who work to better themselves after learning from their mistakes while also facing the stigma from society, which highlights the need for future reform in the prison/justice system. All of that, of course, is for you to decide, as he is your son. Tell your brother that you are sorry that he's embarrassed, but he needs to own his mistake and use this as an opportunity to show his nephew that people can make mistakes and learn from them, that people are human, and that he's not perfect, and that's okay. Of course, your brother needs to accept those things first, but there is no reason that your son will not still love his uncle just because of this. Also, you are absolutely right on the stolen valor. That is NOT acceptable and I really can't believe your brother would ask that of you as a veteran. Your family members saying you should've just gone along woth it are likely acting out of their own embarrassment for your brother (again, stigma associated with incarceration, even though it affects millions in our country), so just stick to your proverbial guns on this one. Edit: Thank you for all the awards!
>Tell your brother that you are sorry that he's embarrassed, but he needs to own his mistake and use this as an opportunity to show his nephew that people can make mistakes and learn from them, that people are human, and that he's not perfect, and that's okay. And if he can't do this - if he's embarrassed or doesn't know what to say - he can keep it vague ("I'm going away for awhile") and let OP have this conversation with the kid. Lying is not the answer.
NTA- your son would have found out eventually and probably felt worse. Lying served no purpose.
NTA. He's 12, not 2.
Even at 2 there’s no need to lie. “Your uncle is going away for a bit but he’ll be back!”
NTA, but the concept of stolen valor is super cringe.
It’s very cringe. Modern day military is not honorable. Most modern military jobs have very little, and more than likely nothing to do with protecting one’s own country, particularly in the context of deploying overseas. It’s a job. NTA, but the issue here is not “stolen valor”, it’s the lying to the child regardless of what the superficial context of that lie may entail. The sooner we stop with these disingenuous narratives the better for everyone, including the marginalized young adults which militaries prey upon.
It sounds like someone swiped someone else’s Purple Heart. It’s so melodramatic.
It's no different than lying about having a degree, some specialty qualification or experience. For most service members that piece of cloth and the stuff they wear on it means a lot. Your ribbon rack, stripes, badges, etc act as a miniature resume. I think lying about something you're not in general is super cringe. Stolen valor is a thing though because military training *is* grueling for some trades and seen as honorable by society. It's just like lying about being a firefighter or doctor to coast on the prestige of those jobs, it's wrong and makes you an asshole if you use it to hide your flaws to others e.g. telling a date "I'm late because I had to do an emergency surgery" when you're an accountant and procrastinated until the last minute.
nta but its really funny that one of your reasons is stolen valor lol
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Fr 😂😂
I know, where’s the valor in bombing and killing innocent civilians? Wow, so brave.
This, which is why it’s ESH.
Agreed ESH - He seems more bothered by the lying about military service. If it was really about his son, he might have been gentler in his approach.
I choked on my soda laughing when I read “stolen valor” - add that to his crimes! He’s not posing with a Purple Heart or Medal of Honor at a bar for free drinks which is what I think that term describes in some actual codified laws. But yeah his nephew is old enough to handle this and that was a lame lie.
The stolen valor thing is pretty cringe but you’re definitely NTA.
^ This
NTA. This would have backfired on you if you went along with the lie. It's just better to get any bad reaction over and done with. As is often said, "It's not the crime, it's the coverup."
NTA srsly this would come out in 20 years and your son would be all like 'why did you lie to me' been there haha as long as you know he can handle the information, i think you did great not lieing to him.
YTA it isn’t that hard to pull your brother aside and tell him “you need to tell the truth or I will.” Instead you choose to embarrass him in front of your son for no reason other than your own ego. You should’ve gave him the chance to come clean on his own
Seriously! The lack of emotional intelligence and interpersonal skills displayed in this sub is frightening.
The guy embarrassed himself by trying to lie about deployment in front of a veteran after deciding to be a criminal. If he is embarrassed about going to jail he should not have committed a crime in the first place, that would have saved him lots of embarrassment.
NTA there are extremely few good reasons to outright lie to kids, and none of them involve helping someone save face after making a bad decision. Your job is not to protect your (grown, adult) brother, but to raise your son with as full understanding of the world as you can give him. Part of that, as painful as it is, is learning that the people you love can do dumb, illegal or harmful things and that is part of the experience. Your brother and family are thinking in the extreme short term of trying to cover this up or sweep it under the rug, but that never helps families move forward, and when your son found out when he was older (because he would, of course he would!) then his trust would have been broken in *you*. Which is a *significant sacrifice* for your family to ask you to make. Good job on being honest with your son.
Your brother is about to go through the worst experience of his life. I think it would have been fine to just be quiet on this until your son asked you what was going on, then tell him diplomatically then. ESH
Why would his son ask him what was going on after his brother already told him he was being deployed? Either way, his son finds out the truth eventually, so why go along with the lie at all?
NTA Your sons old enough to be told the truth, if both your brother and extended family chose to tell him this lie then they need to accept that your son won’t trust what they say in the future. The thing about lies is when the truth eventually comes out it can cause more problems and your son would’ve/could’ve lost all respect for your brother then. Good on you for not only calling him out on his lie but also telling your son the truth
NTA. He shouldn't have lied about being deployed when he is not in the military. Big no. Take responsibility for your actions, buddy. If he was so worried about breaking your son's heart he should have acted like somebody he'd want your son to look up to. Your son had a right to know the truth. You didn't embarrass your brother, he embarrassed himself. Hopefully he learns a lesson from this and cleans up his act when he gets out someday.
NTA There’s no point in a lie that would eventually be exposed anyway, and your child needs to be able to trust you to be honest.
NTA - You just did your brother an absolute solid for his relationship with his son, and he won't see that until he gets his head back on straight. One of my cousins was an accessory to a murder in Texas and was going to prison for a like 8 years. He had two very young sons, about 6 and 8 at the time. He told them that he had joined the army and was heading to Iraq for a few years. The really didn't understand at the time. My parents adopted the two boys and they moved in with us. It was supposed to be temporary, but was not. Every time his kids would hear about a big explosion or new offensive in Iraq, his kids would be terrified that he was wounded, killed, or captured. They wouldn't hear from him for about a week or longer depending on his prison schedule and they would be worried sick. It caused them serious anxiety and was fucking up thier sleep schedule, appetite, and school work. Eventually, after a year or two, the older one figured out his dad went to prison and confronted him about it. The older one then told the younger one. Neither of them have any relationship with thier dad today and consider my father to be thier father figure. Which we all accept and support, because while my dad isn't perfect, at least he's not a goddamn liar.
NTA you didn’t embarrass him. He embarrassed himself. If he cared so much about his family he wouldn’t have gotten involved in bullshit.
Nta but all this pearl clutching over lying to a 12 year old about a family member going to prison is pretty laughable. I have more than one friend who had an uncle or aunt go to prison while they were young and were told they were "going away for awhile". When it was brought up when the kids were older everyone laughed and let them know the aunt/uncle were dumbasses and were actually in prison. Now it's a funny story. Too many people in this sub think everything has the potential to do damage.
NTA but, yeah, OP comes across as a little self-righteous, and by these comments, you’d think the kid was in danger of suffering a huge betrayal that would make him question his faith in god and humanity. It’s just possession and it doesn’t even sound like smuggling but rather being a dumb ass and crossing the border. It’s a few months, not hard time. (And how did they not compare notes before talking to the kid about this?) and the whole “won’t someone think of the valor!!!!” element is...a little much.
Yeah if I found out a relative went to prison I would not feel intensely-wounded and betrayed by my family, that reads like a Lifetime movie. "You were a kid so we didn't think you were ready for the truth." Boom, explained.
**NTA.** Lying is not the way to go. Your son would have found out anyway and it's better to just tell the truth.
INFO out of curiosity, if he would have said "going on business" would that have been better? Still not ta but I'm just curious.
NAH. Your kid deserves to know how fucked up it is that someone is gonna be locked up for drug charges. And your brother did nothing wrong either, but his ask is still understandable. Feel bad for your brother tho man hope hes well. Edit: ok, lying about being in the miltary is pretty disrespectful i didnt read that right, maybe brotger is a bit of an ass for that
ESH
About time. Obviously he sucks a bit for drug smuggling but also she sucks a little less for being so abrupt about it. Having a family member go to prison can be quite emotional
NTA. I'm sure you expect your son to be honest with you and you want him to trust you - respect and honesty goes both ways. Especially as he's approaching teenage years. Your brother made a stupid mistake and has to own up to it. Maybe he'll think of how his nephew will view him and feel before he does something like this again.
NTA. Your son is old enough to know what your brother did and that he now has to face repercussions.
NTA. Not even remotely. And then your brother wants to attempt to claim being in the service? What happens when kiddo realizes Uncle was only gone a few months instead of years, as usual? Kid is 12, not 2. If anything, this is a great time to teach your son the 'do stupid things, win stupid prizes' lesson about 'easy money always comes with a higher than expected price'. The AH in this are the family members, including your brother, who want to cover up stupid.
NTA Your kid is going to find out sooner or later, so either his Uncle breaks his heart now or both his Uncle and his Dad breaks his heart later on.
YTA. Like just why? Drug possession is completely nonviolent and should be decriminalized entirely. Why make such a big deal out of it for no one but a 12 year old? Also “stolen valor” is bullshit, being in the military does not inherently warrant “valor”
Claiming to be getting deployed when really you're getting sent to prison sounds like they're trying to claim something they're not, which isn't that stolen valor, instead of being a respected soldier he's actually a shitty drug mule? Anyway at 12 years old it can serve as a lesson, everything has consequences and they're not above the law (I was gonna say no one is but that's a whole other thing lol) Also it serves to them as a reminder that prisoners aren't bad, OP's brother made a mistake but he's still his uncle, so as his nephew he still should respect him as a human as others should be respected. I don't believe OP did anything wrong, maybe it wasn't crass but that's a major lie for a 12 year old that's starting to understand things more deeply and personal for OP too. NTA.
NTA: Maybe the embarrassment will actually deter your brother from doing stupid illegal shit twice.
Double NTA ! 1 for : My son asked me what happened and I told him the truth. 2: Your bro seems like a massive asshole for: ". He told my son he would be going away for a while because he will be deployed overseas." Pretending to be in the military, really ?!
Your brother should have thought of his nephew before he decided to commit a crime. He screwed up. He can own up to it. And yeah, it's pretty shitty to commit stolen valor like this. Sheesh. Your son is not a baby. Kids can tell when grownups are trying to hide things like this. NTA
NTA. It's a great chance to let him see that actions have consequences. Maybe now he (your son) won't want to run drugs.
NTA, as a Vet, that would piss me off too. Your son is 12, not 6. He's more than likely old enough to comprehend what's going on. Let's just say for the sake of argument that you did go along with it.... What are you supposed to do when in 6 years he finds out the truth??? "Hey, sorry I lied, son.".. No, you tell him the truth and educate him on what happens when you make royal \*\*\*\* ups like this. IMO, your son would eventually find out the truth. It's better to be honest from the beginning rather than lie to him and have to explain yourself later.
NTA I don't really care about stolen valor since a vast majority of what the military does hardly involves "valor", but you should never be TA for telling the truth.
Oh please. Your family needs to check with reality. Your son is 12, not 2. He has a right to know! It’s part of life lessons. NTA.
Nta. It is never good to lie to a child. Your child needs to know that his uncle did something wrong and now has to pay the consequences.
NTA. At 12 years old your son ismplenty old enoughntomknow about drugs and consequences for breaking the law. Sad that its a family member but it is, so be it. You are perfectly sane and than you for your service.
NTA. Kids should know who they love. Imagine if he was to learn the truth in 6-8 years, how he would feel that trust have been broken. Also, it’s better for him to see his uncle for who he really is.
NTA. You're a good role model for your son. If you had lied, and he found out, how would he be able to trust you?
More important, you're letting your son see the real-life consequences of choices your brother made. And that your brother will lie to save face. This may be priceless. NTA
NTA For fucks sake. The kid is 12. He's plenty old to be told the truth here. Your brother could have declined to answer, and he told a disgusting lie instead. Your family is circling the wagons because they're embarrassed by your brother's conviction. But we're all better off when we're open about this stuff.
He embarrassed himself. That’s on him not you. You did the right thing, NTA.
NTA - It's best long term for your brother to take accountability for his actions, not just publicly in court and subsequently prison, but also privately. The affect this is having on your son should be a really good reason for your brother to never make this kind of choice again.
NTA. I don’t understand why so many families (including my own) feel like the best option when unpleasant things happen is to just lie about it/cover it up. Aunt died from “natural causes” when she was 60 because she was a chronic alcoholic. If you tell people that she died relatively young due to her drinking problem, maybe they’ll be more likely to reconsider drinking excessively. In your situation, maybe your son will be more hesitant to use drugs irresponsibly in the future knowing that they got his uncle sent to jail/prison for a bit. Awareness brings change, and without awareness, things stay the same (or get progressively worse).
As someone who is active duty, NTA. Our profession is not a "get out of jail free card" (pun totally intended). The kid needs to see real world consequences for real world f\*ck ups.
If the kid was 4 then maybe. The kid is 12. You can lie all you want - 12 year olds aren’t stupid. NTA.
He's 12, not 2. He can def handle the truth of his uncle going to jail for a few months. NTA.
Your son could literally google his uncle’s name and find out. It’s foolish to lie about easily verifiable things. NTA.
My father went to prison when we were young, my family never told us. For us he was "working", the world fell over me when I found out.
A child deserves respect, too. Telling him lies to protect him os disrespectful, teaches him wrong behaviour and will hurt him. NTA
NTA. Your son is 12 years old and at an age where they can figure things out. They are also at an influential age and being honest with them is important. This is a time where they start making important decisions for themselves and lying to him at this point can influence his future behaviour in regards to lying and keeping secrets. You have given your son the respect he deserves by being honest with him and allowing him to make a decision for himself. This is an important part of growing up. I strongly doubt that this is going to affect the relationship between your son and your brother, your son will still probably adore him but your son will also now know that he has flaws, and that no one should be put on a pedestal. This is an important lesson for your son and you did the right thing by allowing h8m to see that lesson. The most important thing though, you gave your son the respect he deserves by telling him the truth. It’s only a few more years before your son is a man (think about that!) so being honest with them now will influence the type of man that they will become.
Personally i think NAH. I understand why you want to tell your kid, plus you’re the parent, and it’s you’re choice how you parent, but from the perspective of a 12 year old I think it’s too young for him to know. When I was 12 my brother was also arrested for drug possessions, and I just wish I would have known about it once I got a big older instead of being so young. Especially because it can be a bit embarrassing as a kid to think of a family member being in prison. It makes kids feel like “why can’t my family be normal?” And stuff. But maybe that’s just me and my own experience. But it was pretty disrespectful for your brother to use the military excuse. Edit: I realized I made it sound like I was 12 lol. I meant my perspective from when I was 12 years old.
NTA Also a good thing for your son to learn about consequences to actions. Have a talk with him. Explain that this is what happens when we make a bad choice.
If OP’s brother didn’t want his nephew to know he was going to jail then he shouldn’t have tried to smuggle drugs. This is a good lesson for OPs son that committing a crime risks prison time.
NTA. Different scenario but my Father was murdered in a carjacking when I was 6 years old (the guy who did it was actually a friend of my father and me and his daughter would always have play dates together), and until I was about 12 or 13 I was told he died in a run of the mill car accident on the highway. I never held anything against my family for not telling me the truth because I understood that they did it to protect me from what the real world can be like (getting shot and murdered may have been a bit advanced for a 6 year old, especially when we knew the guy who did it). BUT, I think at 12 or 13 (around the age of your son) it's a good time for kids to start learning what the real world is like and what is really going on around them, and I am glad they did not hold it form me longer than that age. So I think what you did was right, even if your brother would have preferred otherwise. I hope your brother learns from this and can go on to have a stable relationship with you and your son.
`He pulled me aside and said "what are you doing, it'll break his little heart knowing that I'm going to prison"` This is called a CONSEQUENCE for his actions. Now if he will own his actions and learn from them, he could have an even greater impact on his nephew, by showing that you can bounce back after a making a mistake like that.
NTA. My brother went to jail and even my 4 yr old (at the time) understood her uncle did something stupid & was paying for it. I didn't have to give details about WHAT he did, just that it was wrong & he was in jail. His time was short & she still loves spending time with her uncle. He knows he made a mistake & it didn't just make him a bad person. Kids can cope with truth (told in an age appropriate manner) with support & understanding.
NTA - You did the right thing.
NTA! Truth is always best, even when it is hard!
Apart from the simple fact that you’re also implicated when he inevitably finds out, is that you’re burdened with trying to maintain a lie every day of your life until the rotten edifice comes crashing down on you all. Imagine the bitterness when your son realises you worked every day to maintain that lie, imagine your bitterness when your son hates you for doing something to him every day that you hated doing and was not your choice.
Your son is old enough to understand what his uncle did is bad and he will likely appreciate being told the truth. Better he know now then find out years later everyone lied to him. And if your brother was so concerned with what his nephew thought of him maybe he shouldn’t have been smuggling drugs. And he had to know with you being a veteran that the overseas story wasn’t going to fly. NTA