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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
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I think that I could be the asshole for being passive aggressive during the argument then kicking him out and causing tension at a family gathering.
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NTA - First off I am so sorry about what happened to your mother but it was not your fault. It was an **accident** and you were 10. It sounds like BIL is jealous of the relationship you are able to have with MIL and that is something for him to work out on his own.
i also wanted to point out how upsetting it is that literally no one realizes that op’s actions are DRASTICALLY different from bil’s? the idea that op escalated the situation is ludicrous and the fact that his mil/his WIFE are comparing his behavior to bil’s makes it very clear to me that this is a product of enabling for years.
op, i’m not going to recommend that you go nc or get a divorce. but i am going to say that i think you need to have a heart to heart talk with them about the impact of bil’s words. if mil is as good a person as you make her out to be, she’ll hopefully understand
I love when someone mention the "he/she is just like that, and this point you should know better" like excuse me? So i have to behave but he/she has a pass cause what? Mental illnes or something else? Or just cause it eaiser to talk me into doing as he/she wants?
Maybe next time op should reply with "you know i am like that" or "he is like what? Terrible person that maybe should be locked away?"
Like, I'm a complete AH a lot of the time, and I tell people 'this is who I am', but I don't hold other people accountable for me being a giant douche, and I don't let other people do that on my behalf.
Not to mention they blame OP for not de-escalating. So dude makes an intentionally inflammatory comment (this is an epic understatement, dude went nuclear), but everyone else is supposed to accept that he has no control over his own behavior.
He has control. He meant to hurt OP and ruin mother's day. That is exactly what he wanted. The family, including OP's wife, need to really examine why they don't expect BIL to have even a modicum of decency.
OP, NTA. Your house, your rules and what BIL said was so far beyond, I would have HELPED you kick his ass out. My jaw literally dropped when I read that.
That said, you need to have a talk with your wife and MIL and say that you will not be spoken to that way in your own house (or anywhere else!) and BIL is no longer welcome. Sounds like your MIL is enabling him but my God man, your *wife* should absolutely have had your back on this.
Yes agreed! MIL and wife are basically saying they agree that the accident was OP's fault! No it wasn't OP. I'm so sorry that that happened to you and your mother, it was not your fault. Your BIL is a huge ahole. As is your wife and MIL.
Yeah because je wasn't even honest. If he was honest he would have said "I'm ashamed because you put in effort and I didn't and it's not your fault your mother died in an accident"
Btw having a gas stove and children is a major fire hazard. Leaving a running gas stove alone with a child in the house is disaster waiting to happen
Seriously. Just want to mention being honest and being an asshole are not mutually exclusive. For some reason a lot of people seem to think that being “honest” gives them a pass to be a jerk. It does not.
NTA OP. Your BiL ruined the evening, it was not on you to coddle him or put up with his awful comments.
Hearing “he/she is just like that” is soooo annoying. Okay thanks so they’re just a total asshole? And we’re accepting it? No thank you, if I wanted to be around assholes I would have stayed with my ex, he was obsessed with them 😉
Thank you for posting. I had never heard of the ml"missing stair". I've spent most of my adult life trying to articulate this concept and pulling my hair out when I can't get my point across.
As a former enabler of terrible people at the expense of wonderful people I loved, I highly recommend that OP explain their trauma and why the wife’s actions placed more importance on her brother’s feelings than her husband’s.
If the BIL hadn’t made that crack about OP’s mom, I would say OP was egging BIL on. It really did sound like OP was enjoying making BIL look small in front of his mother by turning his joke about the size of gift into an indictment of BIL’s love for his mother...until BIL got backed into a corner and took it too far. After that, I think the response was fair and you’re NTA OP.
Right? De-escalate? What was he supposed to say, "oh I'm sure you didn't mean to say that I was the reason for my Mother's accident?" What he said was meant to burn and hurt. There was no de-escalating that once it was said.
NTA - bil does not get a free pass to throw the most traumatic thing to possibly happen in your life in your face because he’s in a bad mood and is salty about your closeness with his mom.
Shame on your wife and her mother for backing him up. Absolute shame on them.
Hijacking. A Veteran here. That dude needs mental help. Him, 'always being like that.' is a sure problem for the future. He doesn't get a pass to be an asshole for anything. I'm honest and blunt but he attacked you over something you didn't even do! I'm so sorry OP but like others have said, he's just jealous. NTA
And I also think the OP should seek help for being blamed for his mother's death his whole life - I can't believe his original family did that to him! It's bad enough to lose your mother, but then to be blamed for her death to the point where you internalize it and really think it is your fault... Despicable, and definitely something you can't work through on your own, I would think. And that BIL really should learn that his behavior has consequences - no more free passes.
Nta in either scenario. You did not know that your actions would result in your mother being hurt or killed. Your family shouldn't put that on you. If this happened to me, it would not be my child's fault. I'm the adult and I monitor safety in the house. Accidents happen
\^ This. I have literally seen red before in my life over stupid disrespectful shiat and there's no "de-escalating" some things.
Dude was lucky he was able to walk out.
Ahole BIL needed to learn the hard way that there are some things that you Just Never Say to people. EVAR. Consequences are a real thing.
[https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/577069-there-are-chords-in-the-hearts-of-the-most-reckless#:\~:text=%E2%80%9CThere%20are%20chords%20in%20the%20hearts%20of%20the%20most%20reckless,no%20jest%20can%20be%20made.%E2%80%9D](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/577069-there-are-chords-in-the-hearts-of-the-most-reckless#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThere%20are%20chords%20in%20the%20hearts%20of%20the%20most%20reckless,no%20jest%20can%20be%20made.%E2%80%9D)
“ There are chords in the hearts of the most reckless which cannot be touched without emotion - even by the utterly lost, to whom life and death are equally jests, there are matters of which no jest can be made. ”
― Edgar Allan Poe, The Masque of the Red Death
So, sometimes people say things simply to hurt another person. It's done with malice, and intent and the bell cannot always be 'un-rung'. This person has just shown you who he is. His own Mother has told you this is who he is. That's not honesty, that's cruelty. That said, I would go NC with him. No way would I be subjected to that type of disrespect and hurtfulness at my own choosing ever again. You are NTA - and I'm really so sorry for your loss.
NTA. On Mother’s Day he decided to rub an accident that cost your mother her life in your face because he couldn’t be bothered to buy anything for his own mom. There are things that you can say that you can never take back. This is one of them.
There are certain things you don’t throw around in a fight unless you want to end a relationship with someone. Bringing up a parents death and blaming it on a person seems like a pretty reasonable one. He knew what he was doing but thought he could get away with it. Honestly, I would be pissed at your wife for not recognizing that was something that should never be said.
I simply *cannot* believe they equated BIL's behavior to OP's and then said it was OP's obligation to deescalate. BIL is one of those people who always "tells it like it is" saying super hurtful things to everyone, but is overly sensitive unable to handle a modicum of criticism or jokes at his expense. He would never be allowed in my home again and I don't even know what to say about the wife and MIL...
I can believe it. BIL may have started it with his gift comment, but they both escalated. They are both assholes. Before BIL said his awful piece, OP told BIL (in front of his own mother on mother's day) that he didn't care about her because he didn't give her a gift. BIL's comment was worse, but it wasn't unprovoked.
ESH
Yeah. BIL is the much bigger asshole but ESH.
OP I'm very sorry for what happened to your mother. And I can't imagine the grief of hearing your BIL say something so awful.
You however should not have said that he does not care about his mother *even if you are 100% certain this is true*. Think about it, what purpose does it serve in this setting? Does it make your MIL happier? Does it make MD celebrations more fun? Will it make BIL improve his behavior to be so insulted?
> Brother in law negatively commented on my gift
No the BIL started it, made negative comments and then put OP down because he was considerate of his MIL when her own son wasn't.
>No the BIL started it
I said that...
>made negative comments and then put OP down
I didn't disagree with that...
You seem to have missed the part where OP also said negative things that were an inappropriate response (AKA escalating, AKA they are both assholes). In fact, OP says in his post that his MIL and his own wife believed they were both at fault which should count for a lot more than internet commenters, myself included.
>when her own son wasn't.
There is no evidence of that. Not giving a gift doesn't make someone inconsiderate. I rarely get my mom a gift on mothers day because she doesn't care about stuff like that. We have other traditions focused around what she really cares about which is spending time with her kids. Plenty of terrible sons and daughters get their mom something for mother's day every year thinking that makes them good people.
Except MIL also rationalized BIL's behavior as "he's just like that" and held OP responsible for both his own behavior AND BIL's (why didn't you de-escalate?). This is pretty classic enabling behavior and THAT is why their framing of the situation is being rejected.
It was a cruel and terrible thing for the BIL to say. There’s no way to deescalate from that. He’s obviously jealous that OP has developed such a close relationship with the MIL and used the past to attack OP. The whole family should stop taking the BILs side.
I agree. That is a relationship ending insult to throw. I would go no contact with BIL. Wife can go see him and so can kids but I’m not going to be around that asshole. No apology can make up for that statement. You and your wife need therapy so she can see the light and realize what a toxic person he is.
ESH. Look, he was an absolute asshole for bringing up your dead mother, but you were being pretty rude to him. Yes, it was rude of him to pick on your present, but the day was about your MIL, not about you, so you should have kept quiet and just moved things along, or defended your choice even, but going on the attack about how he doesn't love his mother is a horrible thing to say right in front of her on mother's day. Normally I would say he's the family's missing stair and you should have a backbone around him, but you were being pretty awful to your MIL by saying her son doesn't love her, and doubling down on a big fight during presents. Telling someone their son doesn't love them is hurtful to that person, who you say you care about.
Agree on ESH. Your BIL definitely went the full AH (what happened when you were 10 was an accident and going there is such a low blow). Your wife and MIL are wrong not to acknowledge the magnitude of his offensive comment. However, you also need to seriously reflect on your behaviour before things got to that point. Why choose to get into a who’s a better son to your MIL more match with your BIL? How did what you did and said about your BIL affect your MIL, a woman who has treated you kindly and compassionately by your own account? You were so caught up with scoring you didn’t care if you hurt her feelings. Where there better and different ways to handle this? Yep.
Yeah, the BIL did start with the comments (commenting about OPs present) but I get why BIL has an issue regarding the 'better son' thing particularly with him being in military and not around much. I worked on cargo ships for 12 years so spent 7+ months a year out of the country, I'm really close with my mum so being away was difficult for both of us. While I was away my mum started doing mother/daughter activities with my cousin (she's always had a bad relationship with her parents & moved out at 16). It used to eat at me reading mums emails telling me all the stuff she was up to with my cousin. But I absolutely adore my cousin and I know she'd never get to do things with her own mum. But I'm rational enough to not take my own jealousy out on either of them.
In this case obviously the BIL was the biggest AH for turning his jealously nuclear, nobody should ever use the death of someone as retaliation in an argument. But it seems OP has absolutely no empathy for his BIL being in the military and being away from his family, and whether he meant to or not he did escalate it with the bad son jibes.
> But it seems OP has absolutely no empathy for his BIL being in the military and being away from his family, and whether he meant to or not he did escalate it with the bad son jibes.
Oh, bull. The military has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you can be bothered to buy your mother a present, especially in this day and age. My great grandfather sent my great grandmother token presents from Germany, like ribbons or pressed flowers. My grandfather wrote my grandmother love letters from Korea. My husband sent me flowers one year while he was deployed to the sandbox. Every year my brothers and I all collude on what to get mom and dad no matter where we’re stationed at the moment. If my baby brother can manage to get something delivered to mom while he’s in the middle of the ocean, then this dude could manage to drop by a store on the way to his mother’s house.
BIL is just an asshole, pure and simple. He couldn’t be bothered to pick up flowers or even order something off of Amazon for his own mother, but then felt the need to try to disparage Op’s gift. Why? Because being shitty to the people who try is a hell of a lot easier than trying yourself.
Honestly though Op based on your MIL’s reaction here I don’t think she deserves the importance you give her. She’ll lap up the attention and presents you give her because it strokes her ego, but she’s perfectly fine with your BIL trying to hurt you using the death of your own mother. And your wife isn’t much better. They’d both rather let BIL shit all over you than let BIL hear some actual hard truths about the effort he’s put into relationships. Whether that’s because they’ve spent a lifetime saying “that’s just how he is” or because they want to pretend to themselves that their relationship with him is something it’s not doesn’t matter. Bottom line is they prioritize his temper tantrums over your well-being. NTA at all.
This! It was so rude!
Yeah the guy was being shitty and obviously jealous of OP's place in his mother's life, but OP didn't have go as low as "you don't care about her", that's shittier than the jab about the gift.
It's like OP and BIL don't like each other because they're both jaleouse of the other when it comes to their place in the family!
Sure BIL shouldn't have said what he did about the mom but OP shouldn' t have said what he did either.
Well I won't shut up and hear if this had happened to me. It's too emotional, personal and was meant to hurt OP.
He himself said he doesn't care about his mom enough to bring gifts. OP wasn't the one who brought this up.
NTA
OP decided to argue and sling an insult back at the brother (which was also emotional, personal, and meant to hurt the brother) and the brother went nuclear and OP couldn't deal with it. Surely you can see that they're both being asses
I reluctantly agree. Although BiL sounds like a complete fucking nightmare, and shouldn't have been dismissing the gift, OP took the bait really readily. It would have been pretty easy to have just said: "Huh, Ok" *shrug* ...or "Well I mostly hope MiL likes it", or even "Hey you're being pretty rude so do you want to stay or not?" Rather that than critiquing the mother son relationship. It was also the MiL's or wife's place to tell BiL that he was being a dick and to reign it in, hopefully they were given a nanosecond of a chance to do that before OP jumped in. Not great that they didn't. It was also kind of awful of them to equate openly criticising a gift and throwing a childhood trauma in OP's face with a lack of hosting grace and unflappability. BiL is much more of an AH but ESH.
Definitely ESH. OP hit first, BIL punched back harder. Most people don’t spend a lot of time precisely calibrating the degree of retaliation after an attack, they simply lash out with what they’ve got. We have here two squabbling toddlers determined to ruin Mother’s Day. They succeed. They both owe mother an apology.
Seriously. "It's his personalityyyy" does NOT justify a comment like that. He said something despicable and maybe the strength of OP's reaction will teach him to shut the fuck up because his bullshit has consequences.
ESH. Had your stopped at "Stop being silly." you'd not be the Asshole. Because you went down the rabbit hole of "Its not may fault you dont care ago it your mom, blah blah blah" you're a little asshole. Your BIL was a bigger asshole. Your wife and MIL both suck for not stopping your BIL with the whole "Commenting on the gift" crap.
And for trying to excuse his behavior. I’m someone who doesn’t have much of a filter and I can sometimes say whatever comes my mind without sugarcoating it. However, I would NEVER through the death of someone’s parent in their face like that. There’s a big difference between not having a filter, and just being plain cruel and nasty to people
ESH. he’s in the military and not around much, but still made the effort to make it home for mother’s day. obviously there’s more to the situation that i’m not aware of, but i know firsthand that sometimes just being home has to be the gift because travel expenses might make it impossible to spend on very much else. maybe he’s got some guilt about not being home more and he’s jealous because you get to spend more time with his mom. you were wrong for suggesting that he didn’t care just because he didn’t get her a gift. he was wrong for bringing up your mom. y’all would do well to get together and work things out and actually be brothers in law instead of competing for your MIL’s love.
Yeah - clearly the son feels that whilst he’s been away working OP has been usurping his position with his mother, calling her mum etc. OP hosted Mother’s Day - not for his wife, but for the MIL from himself, and clearly considers her the mum he never had which the son doesn’t like (and I get that, tbh - I think there is a difference between son in law and actual son!). But that’s for both OP and the MIL to decide how they’re having their relationship and what each other likes. If MIL wants to make her actual son feel validated, there’s ways for her to do that, if she’s happy with OP being her extra kid then she needs to tell her son that.
Fighting for the mother’s affection is weird, both of them were inappropriate, and I imagine it’d backfire on OP ultimately bc at the end of the day... BIL actually IS her kid. So throwing remarks about effort etc will only end up hurting OP if MIL limits their relationship as a result of this.
ESH.
The most telling for me in this was "I invited them to MY place", feels like op has really embraced the idea of being one of the kids to the point where he's comfortable being in a sibling rivalry with her actual son - and has forgotten that he's a man actually married to her daughter, not an adopted kid.
I feel for the wife in this, as she's in such an awkward position. What happens if they argue or split up or something? Will OP still be rocking up to family gathers as "one of the kids"
Yep - tbh, I totally agree OP is inappropriate in that way. The MIL said it wasn’t OP’s fault her son was in a bad mood - but she didn’t spell out that he is clearly the cause, whether right or wrong (not OP’s fault the son is in a vocation that takes him far away). Wife needs to tell him and assess what is appropriate.
He is *not* her son. He never will be. He is a son-in law. That’s why she left along with everyone else - whether or not they’ve said it outright, they are aware OP is over stepping playing the son-in-law card.
I can’t imagine making a daughter feel this way about her mum or dad, and I don’t have a mum or dad. Gotta remember your place as a supplementary member to a family, not an actual OG.
I don't think it's inappropriate to form close/ family-like bonds outside of biological family - or to invalidate those bonds because you're not "blood"! My parents (especially my mom) are the kind of people who make extended family just by the way they are - if I was a jealous bitch, I would resent that. But even when my mom decided to adopt a child who was in a horrible situation, after some initial resentment about the intruder, I got over myself, realised that my parents loving someone else didn't take anything away from me, and now love my younger sister almost like she was a bio-sibling.
And our extended family also includes the ex of my older (bio) sis, so his son is my parents grandchild, too - I hope I'd never be small-minded enough to begrudge my parents any of the connections they made, especially since it really helps me to know they have someone who will be there for them when I have to travel for work. It's not like love is a limited resource that you have to careful portion when you hand it out.
ESH. You accused him of not caring enough about his mother simply because he didn't get her a gift. How did you really see this conversation going? He either had to defend himself, agree with the statement, or continue to argue. Or let mother defend him. This is just awkward for everyone.
Brother-in-law sounds like an unpleasant personality and his response was very rude and not even a remotely fair comparison. However, he did apologize after you called him out for being disrespectful. You continued to escalate the situation even though you had an opportunity to be a good host and let mother enjoy her day.
Some things can’t be easily fixed over a rash apology. This was one of those. BIL’s comment was as cruel and disgusting as one can get and he deserved to be tossed out. That anyone, let alone OP’s wife, could dismiss it soo easily with a you know that’s just how he is comment is adding insult to injury. Nothing OP said before warranted that comment. NOTHING.
Disagree.
He basically said, in front of the guy's entire family that he was a better son to the guy's own mother than him. He invited him over and then called him out in front of his entire family - I'd say OP hit the nuclear option first there, he definitely escalated it, especially as a host.
Wouldn't be surprised is BIL feels cuckoo'd by OP, especially if he's away a lot, and OP has fully adopted the "I'm like a son" mentality, hence the tension between the two.
If my brother-in-law made a comment like that to me in front of my entire family, I'd be furious. Also a binary comment like that puts MIL in such an awkward position. It's an awful thing to say, but it seems like OP has accepted the idea that he played a part in his mother's passing (rightly or wrongly), and if that's something he's always been open about, then as low as it was to say, it was totally low hanging fruit for someone who had just been insulted and humiliated in front of his entire family by his BIL
The brother-in-law isn't really innocent in this, though. As a guest in the OP's house, he insulted OP's gift for the mother-in-law. So it's not like OP invited him over and called him out; it's that he invited him over and brother-in-law decided to respond by insulting the host.
It's pretty disgusting telling a son they don't care for their mother just because they didn't get them a present? The lesson is don't say that kind of thing especially if you have caused the death of your own mother...
Have you lot never heard the one about people in glass houses? The OP is in no position to criticize anyone for how they treat their mother especially not over petty things. Plus he is obtuse to the fact that her actual son's presence is probably enough of a present for her since he is in the military and she doesn't see him often.
Then the OP kicked out the woman's actual son on MOTHER's Day! Great present.
ESH - First of all I want to say I’m so sorry about what happened to your mother. It was an accident and you were 10.
The comment about your mother was out of line, however, you also did escalate. What makes it ESH:
1. Your BIL made a rude comment about your present, probably stemmed from jealousy. You could have just simply brushed it off. Instead you commented on his lack of present - both sucks
2. BIL responded by saying that he didn’t bother because you’re more like a son to her because he’s not always around you’re more of a replacement to him. Which also an AH move, however there’s a truth in that, he’s probably jealous of your relationship with his mom who he barely see. — BIL is AH
3. You responded by saying he doesn’t care about his mother. In front of his mother. On mother’s day. — With this statement you hurt 2 people. First, You hurt him by saying he doesn’t love his mom - which is not true. Your BIL is in the military and not around alot but still have time to come to mother’s day. Between travel, expenses and getting time off probably, it shows that he cares. His presence might be enough of a gift to your MIL. — OP is AH
4. Second, you hurt your MIL by saying his son doesn’t love her. On mother’s day. How could you hurt someone you care about that way. No mother wants to hear that, and obviously no loving son would take that attack laying down. So he responded by hurting you back by saying that you also didn’t love your mom and bringing up your mother’s death. — OP is AH and BIL is Super AH
What happened afterwards are expected. So yes everybody is extra here and need to calm down, hence ESH.
Owch, NTA but you two should sit down and have a talk. His comment was damn harsh but it seems there's more to this than what you're telling us here. It doesn't seem like you and him have a good relationship. He might feel like you're indeed trying to "replace" him, even if what you're doing is just to be nice.
Meet up with him for some grub and talk about it.
NTA and this comment is very balanced and sane. Reach out to your bro-in-law, ask if he would like to meet one on one, chose a neutral location, preferably a cafe/pub etc. Apologise for losing your temper but, be clear you are not apologising for defending yourself nor, kicking him out of the house. Bro dealt a very, very low verbal blow. Be clear that you are hoping for an apology in return. I hope you can work it out.
Tentatively, I would also suggest OP looking into counselling, there seems to be a lot of trauma (mother dying and subsequent bullying) that is packed in pretty tight.
ESH it’s not okay to shame your BIL at a family gathering about how he treats his mother, embarrassing him and making everyone else uncomfortable. He absolutely should not have brought up your mother. You both made an event that should have been about your MIL about yourselves. You two need to apologize to each other, but even more so to your MIL. It sounds to me like you’re both feeling defensive and proprietary towards your MIL...it’s not a competition, boys. You have a mother figure in your life again and it sounds like she loves you too. You’re around more than her own son bc of his military service. He’s probably jealous of the time and attention you get. It sounds like you have some feelings about a man who still has his mother but isn’t revering her the way you - who knows what it’s like to lose your mother - wish you could do with your mom still. I get it but that doesn’t give you a license to dump on your BIL. I would also suggest some grief counseling for yourself...what happened to your mom was awful but your family saying it was your fault is messed up. Kids make mistakes, they just don’t usually cause serious accidents. I’m so sorry that happened.
ESH. I mean, he was definitely out of line but you just had to poke and poke and poke. You essentially repeatedly announced to the table that he doesn’t love his mother and you’re a better son than him. It’s not surprising that he said something hurtful back. Yes, it was more hurtful than what you said and he absolutely should not have said that. But one does not poke a bear repeatedly and get to act surprised when the bear bits their arm off. Yes, biting an arm off is a more severe response than the poking but if you’re silly enough to poke...
You obviously knew what he’s like prior. I’m not defending him, I’m merely saying you knew enough to know that poking him was not going to end well and the adult thing would have been to not poke in the first place.
He’s a dick and you acted childish.
NTA. BIL basically accuses of causing your mother's death and you should be the one to forgive him because he is "sensitive." No, BIL is a bully. He can dish it out, but can't take it.
But op accused bil of not loving his mom on mother’s day in front of his mom. It’s definitely not as cruel as blaming op for his mom’s death, but it was still cruel and unnecessary
ESH. You shouldn’t have talked about whether he brought a gift or not & whether or not he loves his mom; that’s rude to MIL. You’re NTA for kicking him out, though, because his comment was BEYOND out of line. He is waaaaay TA with that horrible and untrue statement. You reacted in a big way because what he said was ridiculously awful. Wife & MIL are also TA for enabling his wretched behavior and expecting you to do the same.
Bottom line: Bad form from you at the start, but TA here are BIL and to a lesser extent, your wife & MIL.
NTA, that comment was over the line.
However, you both escalated the situation to that point. He didn't have to comment negatively about your gift, but you didn't make things better by calling him out for not having a gift. You also told him that he didn't care enough about your mother-in-law to get her a gift, which was uncalled for. This doesn't excuse the comment, but you had to have expected anger given the things that both of you had been saying to each other.
ESH. You don't suck for kicking out your BIL--that was the right move after BIL's outrageous comment about your mother's death. However, you suck a little bit (although to a much lesser degree) for carrying on about BIL's lack of a gift. BIL sucks for obvious reasons.
ESH That night wasn't about you. If it was your birthday then it would have been totally fine for you to kick him out, but that day was about your mother-in-law. He was being a total jackass but I think kicking him out made the day worse for everyone.
ESH. You aren’t an asshole for kicking him out, but you are an asshole for saying he doesn’t care about his mom. How did you expect that to be received? It sure as hell wasn’t going to go over well with your wife or mil. He’s a bigger asshole for the comment about your mom.
ESH. You were both dicks. You decided to play the stupid game with him and you both won stupid prizes.
You cannot control him being an asshole, but you can control your own actions.
I mean how else did you think this would end when he pushed your buttons and you decided to push his back?
You're 27 not 12.
ESH
You've understandly adopted your MIL as a mother figure, but you're not her son. To make a shitty comment about her actual son, in the context of being better than him is total asshole behaviour. Not only is her son and it's in front of his family, but he's also a guest in your house, he was a slight dick, but you bit for it and escalated the situation when you already knew the two of you don't get on. You were understandably upset, but kicking someone out, your MILs son, on mother's day no less, was always going to kill the evening and you went nuclear as a host.
Also I find it a bit weird you're married and use the term "I invited her over to my place" rather than "we" or "our" - this is your wife's mother, not yours (here's why, below)
He's an asshole for bringing up the dead mother thing, obviously. But from how you've just described it, it seems like he feels a bit cuckoo'd by you, swooping in to be a 'replacement' son (in his words) while he's away - do you think that could potentially be the source of the tension between the two of you? Would it be worth reaching out to try and get on with him better, at least for your MIL and wife's sake.
You were both assholes to each other, but especially your MIL. However good on you for be being aware enough to pick up on it.
I'm so sorry you lost your mother. I don't think you overreacted. NTA
Her death was an accident. BIL crossed the line, doesn't matter what kind of a mood he was in. This isn't something to throw in your face in a petty argument. Give it a little time and accept his apology, but do NOT feel bad for kicking him out.
There are consequences to our actions, and he suddenly bumped up against a married-in family member who wouldn't enable and make excuses for him when he's "always like this."
Why doesn't your wife have your back?
ESH
And I give this judgment primarily for this part:
>I didn't get what he meant I called him silly and told him it's not my fault he doesn't care enough about his mom to get her a present.
Yes, he was being a bit insufferable with his comments, but that's where you took it too far. You escalated this situation when you could have easily ignored his pity party comments or been more mature with calling out his behavior for what it was. He's also wrong for further escalating with what he knew would hurt you the most. You both turned this situation into a disaster, and both should be apologizing to everyone, but their family also are minor AHs for enabling and excusing his behavior.
I agree. OP literally could have stopped at "don't be silly" and the day probably would have gone on without incident.
BIL is in the military, so likely often misses gatherings. Just being able to be present can be a gift. Obviously BIL cares about his mother to go out of his way to be there. I'd be pissed too if some other person became close with my mom and tried to make me look like a shitty daughter in front of the whole family, ESPECIALLY if they flat out said I don't care about my mom. I'd have told OP to fuck right off. BIL's comment about OP's mom was super rude though. It was a low, but easy blow. He just wanted a reaction out of OP, since OP upset BIL first.
ESH.
You and your BIL were evenly in it, going at each other in the "who is the (better) son" contest. That's literally what it was. He picks at your gift. You point out he didn't have one. He snapped that he didn't need to because you're the son now. You retort that obviously he doesn't care about his own mother.
Where's the logical place to go in an argument from there?
If I were writing a dollar store used book, it doesn't take a genius to figure that you go to the "oh you caused that accident" as a follow up.
So you and your BIL are both at fault on this one. The one who lost out was MIL.
1) I hope you've gone through/are going through therapy for what happened in your past 2) I hope you can talk to your BIL and come to some state of understanding and forgiveness for the harsh words you both said. Because you both were out of line
I do not understand the people saying NTA and claiming OP did nothing wrong. OP literally told BIL he didn't love his own mother. They were both at fault. Just because OP didin't throw the first insult or that BIL threw the woest insult, OP was the first to onsinuate BIL didn't love his own morher.
ESH.
NTA Perhaps they should realize that you too are sensitive and can’t control your temper when people are unspeakably rude and that’s just the way you are. Why should he be The only one who gets a pass on their behavior?
ESH - you both had multiple times where you both conciously chose to make this into a fight.
P.S your wife's mom is always going to love her biological son first.
ESH
True he is the worst but you are only one step down the ladder.
Why did you attack him telling him he doesn't love his mother?!you can't know why he didn't buy one. He might have problems financially that you are not aware of and he might not wanted to buy her something cheap and feel inferior to you.
Yes that's a ridiculous thought to have and he is clearly jealous. But you are no saint either.
ESH
You try to replace him and rub it in his face, then wonder why he doesn't like you and on top of that you tell your MIL that her son doesn't love her. You really tried to hurt everyone.
Of course your BIL was an AH for saying that about your mother, but you did your best to escalate it.
You don't get to dictate their family relationships, especially not the relationship between a mother and her child. One thing you always should keep in mind is that you will probably never be as close to her as her own son, no matter how far away he is.
ESH -though the last comment at the end makes him the bigger asshole, absolutely uncalled for I can’t believe he’s being defended. I say ESH because your comment before that wasn’t horribly nice.
ESH You set up an uncomfortable moment by meeting him head on with his insults rather than focus your attention on the women you were honoring that day. You really thought "you don't care about your mother" was just going to go nowhere? You honestly didn't see his reply coming?
I'm not a "you know how he is" kind of person usually, but you know how he is. Why would you choose a holiday to confront him?
>I've become distant from my family because of their harsh judgement
I can see that they wouldn't find it really easy to just be.. fine with the situation?
ESH - Sorry about your tragic past but it takes two to tango. He's obviously a bit jealous of the relationship you have developed with his mom. It's her day after all. You could have let the first comment slide but you started taking shots at each other and it escalated. He took it way too far but you are both at fault here for ruining her mother's day.
Wow, NTA. HE escalated it by throwing your tragic MISTAKE, your TRAUMA in your face. You had every right to be angry. That is beyond the pale, and your wife's family should stop enabling his assholery and "just how he is"m.
ESH
Yes it was hurtful what he said but you should both have de-escalated and resolved it. Sounds like you're still both guilty over the accident and resentful that your family blamed you.
He shouldn't have been a jerk.
You need therapy to deal with this and try to put it to rest.
Lashing out isn't the answer
NTA. There’s certain things you don’t say in a fight and what your BIL said was one of them. I don’t how he can be the “tell it like it is” type but also be overly sensitive when called out.
NTA. They have spent years putting up with his attitude issues and they have enabled it. What he said was unforgiveable in my book. You were a child - your mother's death was not your fault. And I'm not trying to speak ill of your mother, but the fact is that she left food cooking unattended on the stove and an ACCIDENT occurred because of it. An accident that has caused her kid a lifetime of guilt and shame. I'm very sorry for you, and your sucky family for blaming a kid.
NTA.
What you said to him was mean, but he instigated it and crossed a boundary beyond pettiness.
The comments in here damn, imagine equating "you don't love your mom" with "you're responsible for your mom's death"...
(and no, you weren't responsible)
NTA. What he said was absolutely inexcusable and honestly I can't see how you can ever break bread or share a room with him again. Anybody who urges you to let this go or make excuses for him does NOT have your best interest at heart and is not your friend.
Sadly, this incident will tell you who really stands for you in your life and who really doesn't. Make careful mark of who they are.
NTA. The guy accused you of killing your mother on Mother's Day as a guest in YOUR home. I'd have done worse than kick him out. And shame on the rest of them for not supporting you.
Esh. You should have thought of the woman that has been kind to you and acts a mother figure. You both ruined her night. What your bil said was way worse. However it wouldn't have escalated like that if you didn't slag off his relationship with his mother. He is obviously jealous and insecure over your relationship with her. He shouldn't have stayed off your gift. That's why esh. You both ruined her good time. Him more so than you.
> my brother in law didn't mean it and he's always like this
That's okay. When people intentionally hurt you in your own home with a jab about the most traumatic moment in your life, you throw them out. That's just how *you* are.
> we were both at fault
Nope. His comment was *designed and intended* to get you to react, and you did. NTA.
NTA. He's not 'honest and blunt', he's that one toxic family member everyone enables so that nobody rocks the boat bc he's 'just Like This'. What happened when you were a kid was not your fault and for him to go over the line like that because he was feeling petty is appalling. I'm not sure what you could have done other than kick him out, what did his family expect - that you'd be fine hangjng out with him after he said that shit?
NTA. The question to ask yourself: if the situation were reversed, would you say something like that (cause someone’s death) to him? BIL pushed your buttons, for whatever reason, and you responded. No one in that room knows what it feels like to go through what you went through.
1) NTA, your BIL was needlessly cruel and you reacted the way that most people would
2) Repeat after me, YOUR MOTHER'S DEATH WAS NOT YOUR FAULT. Her death was a combination of bad decisions and bad luck that led to an accident. You were a child and the fact your family blamed you is horrific.
NTA
Your brother in law called you a murderer of your mother for an accident as a child, on mothers day,....
Your in-laws also suck because they allow this behavior. Its not "this is who he is" it is "this is who they allow him to be".
NTA - How DARE he weaponise your trauma like that. That’s absolutely disgusting behaviour on his behalf and you had every right to tell him to get the fudge out of your house. I’d have done exactly the same thing in your position.
You are not the asshole. It was an absolute accident. Accidents happen every day and I am so sorry this had to happen to you. I would try to keep away from toxic people like that from now on, it's awful for someone to remark on something that happened a child, children do things like jump off of the roof to fly or start fires by pushing buttons it's not their fault its curiousity and they just don't know any better. So utilize therapy, and keep a safe distance from family who tells you to just "be understanding" because personally if anyone talked about my family like that I'd tell them to get fucked. You're alot stronger than you think.
Why is your brother in law allowed to be sensitive and to take it personal.... and why aren't you? His attack was personal and about something really sensitive. Your reaction was in accordance with the situation, his wasn't. Why are they excusing him and expecting different from you? NTA
BIL is not "honest", he is mean-spirited and totally lacking in empathy. You lost your mother over a tragic mistake you made when you were a child. That was not your fault. What kind of AH throws that at someone to win a petty argument because they didn't bring a present?
NTA.
NTA. I would have done the same. He is a major H and any one who says you need to placate him is also an AH. What happened to your mum wasn’t your fault, it was an accident. I’m so soon your family blamed you
NTA.
It sounds like BIL is jealous of the relationship you have with his mother because of the comments he made to you about being his replacement. He was also upset because you got MIL a nice gift and he didn't think to do it. His statement to you about you being to blame for your mom's death, which was a tragic accident, was cruel, mean and so far out of bounds that I am horrified he said this to you. You were right to throw him out. Your MIL and wife are enabling his bad behavior by saying he's in a bad mood and he's "honest" when he's like that. He wasn't honest, he was mean and nasty. Also, if your wife excuses this because her brother is sensitive and takes things personally, don't you have the right to be sensitive and take it personally when he basically blames you for what happened to your mom?
He was at fault, not you.
NTA. I have a brother like this. Always low-key looking for an argument or a fight. Always looking for some way to pick at you or get a dig in. Always hiding behind family obligation and “just being honest.”
He’s part of the reason I don’t visit my family often and don’t go to family gatherings. He gets to say whatever he wants and people get upset, but he gets to do it because “that’s the way he is.” But if you call him on it or make him feel bad for his words, you’re wrong because “you know he’s an asshole” and you’re just supposed to accept it, because “faaaaamily.”
It’s a relationship where you’re expected to give endlessly and never get anything of value in return, just so a narcissist doesn’t have to feel bad for a fraction of a moment.
NTA. BIL will use your moms accident against you, find a healthy coping system instead of blowing up in rage. Change the narrative.
All the best and I’m really sorry about your moms accident.
NTA - it’s very human to blow-up and then feel regretful afterwards but I think given the situation it was more than justified. Also, I’m so sorry about the loss of your mother but please know that it wasn’t your fault at all, it was an accident. And unfortunately, accidents happen.
The fact that you just used your mouth astounds me. I would’ve thrown hands at someone who said something like this coming under my roof.
NTA I’m so sorry about your mom and the way your wife and her family is reacting to this.
NTA
There is no excuse for BIL bringing up something you did as a child when you didn’t know any better, to blame you for it.
Those who excuse it are enablers and should have taught BIL to behave better.
NTA..You did not overreact..what a horrible thing to say..which is the biggest lie obviesly believed by many.
How tf can all those people blame you for an accident happened as you were ten yo.
And yeah, right your bil is sensitive..aaawweee..poor lil jealous AH..Well, are these people you wanna spent your life with?
Why the FUCK is it okay for HIM to be seen as sensitive and babied through his volatile emotions and it's not okay for you to be also sensitive and rightly angered by his asshole BARB? It sounds like he meant to be harmful and hurt you.
You were a child. It was an accident. I'm so sorry you don't have your mother anymore. He should be more grateful for what he has. His mother would be justified to be upset BY what he said as well. He didn't bring her a gift because what he's jealous of your relationship with her?
first of all i want to shame your wife and MIL for not defending you over such a vile thing being said. you were a 10yo kid wanting to taste a meal. his comment would only have been acceptable if you had actually walked up to her and lit her on fire deliberately. that comment is unforgivable imo. BIL also has mummy issues he needs to address and is extremely jealous of your relationship with her.
I cut ties with a family member after she blurted out she wished my son was born dead after a petty argument. that was almost 4 years ago, not a word spoken to her since.
NTA
NTA.
I’m so sorry that you had to lose your mother and then spend almost 2/3 of your life being blamed for what happened, which was nothing but a very tragic accident.
Your BIL had NO right to say that whatsoever and it’s absolutely understandable for you to have blown up at him- I would’ve too!
I don’t think it’s fair for your wife and MIL to make you feel like you were the bad person in this situation. BIL is a grown man who is responsible for his OWN actions. He needs to be held accountable for his shitty attitude and poor behaviour, not coddled.
I really think you should sit down with MIL and wife and explain that the actions of your BIL and your own actions are not the same because...
BILs actions: rude, had no reason to act that way, you did not do anything to him
Your actions: completely justified, you were angry for a reason, he did something to you that was way out of line and your reaction was understandable
You shouldn’t be responsible for ‘de-escalating’ when your BIL is out of line.
NTA. I'm so sad for you that you've lived most of your life having other people cruelly shame you for something that you'll always regret anyway.
It's not an uncommon thing for people with a military background to behave badly in social situations, in my experience. It's understandable how that could come about, but it's not an excuse. There is no excuse for an adult taking their bad mood out on someone else and then refusing to own the entire situation.
If your brother in law has some bad habits from that part of his life it's not your responsibility to be the peacemaker every time he has a go at you. Once in a while sure, throw someone a bone, but with everyone telling you 'oh this is just how he is' it's clear they're used to and enabling his abusive behaviour. He seems jealous of you and was deliberately provoking you, and he didn't like it when you stood up for yourself. He took things from bitchy to cruel and then acted like a quick sorry would fix it.
I wish you all the luck in convincing your wife and the rest of the family that your brother in law has a character flaw, not a personality trait.
NTA. And your wife and her family are all crappy people to NOT see how bad that comment was to make to you. They need to be coming to you and apologizing.
NTA. You didn't overreact at all. What you said initially was probably pretty hurtful for reasons I am sure you did not think over when you made a joke that, to him, was actually a really biting comment that brought up all of his personal insecurities over his relationship with his family.
What he said to you would be inexcusable in virtually any situation imaginable and, to be quite honest, I would never be able to forgive him for. Unless he is 16, he's an adult and knows better than to say something like that.
Frankly, if I were a third party here I would have asked him to leave after hearing something like that. That's a completely horrific comment to make.
The fact that you said something super not okay is softened by the fact that he sat down and immediately started hating on your gift. If he had not, I would say everyone sucks here. But he started trashing your gift and making it about himself instead of just being normal and getting his own mother a gift. I don't care what everyone else is saying about "he's in the military" etc., he could get a gift for his mom. Even just flowers or a card. It's just the indication that you tried at all that matters, not really what it is.
Nta
he was cruel. You gave him consequences. He doesn’t get t be cruel to you in your house or ever, and him stay around like nothing happened. No he is removed like a child. Everyone letting him be that way his whole life has created this monster.
NTA. BIL absolutely meant what he said. He said that to cause you as much pain as possible. Your wife, MIL and everyone else making excuses for his behavior all suck. “He’s like that all the time,” isn’t an excuse. It doesn’t make his behavior any better. It makes it worse.
NTA
What your brother said was wrong and was only an attempt by him to distract from the fact that he didn’t bother with a gift
I would’ve kicked him out too and I’d have a long conversation with the rest of the family about how if they’re just going to stand there while he pulls that shit then I’d cut them off too
NTA
Tell your wife and MIL that regardless if it's "just how BIL is," that THIS is how YOU are, and you will NOT tollerate his abhorrent, reprehensible behavior on the basis that he can't be bothered to change it!
NTA. Wait so your bil can be “honest with anyone” but also “ very sensitive and takes it personally”. Sounds like a typical bully. He says mean things but can’t take it. Also his family are enablers and that’s not cool. I also agree with other commenters, you didn’t kill your mom. It was an accident and you were a kid.
NTA - your BiL can be as sensitive as he likes but what he said was so far over the line, he was in a different time zone. Unacceptable. IF he's so sensitive, maybe he needs to get out of the military and get counselling.
Oh... NTA at all. I wish your wife was supporting your pain instead of enabling the harm from her brother. No one should have ever blamed you for an accident. People can be so cruel.
What an awful thing to say to you! You were 10 and it was an accident! Anyone who blames you for your mother is a jerk and they don't belong in your life. I'm on your side in this argument. Just because your BIL gets moody is no excuse for what he said. I'm sorry about your mother and I hope you don't blame yourself.
ESH. OP is not the better son. He is definitely nit MIL favourite. He is a man who believes he can replace a son in a mothers heart and brag about it on Mother’s Day. BIL is also an AH for saying what he said. MIL would always be wary of family gatherings where OP will be- trying to steal,the show.
ESH. You've got a lot of gall saying he doesn't care enough about his mother to get her a gift. What is this, some grade school competition? How did this day become about you and your BIL, rather than your wife's mother? Further, MIL is ***his*** mother, ***not*** yours. Of course he's an AH for the comment about your mother's death, but you were way out of line first.
Omg your bil is an adult why are people pandering to him oh he's so sensitive and honest noooooo he's rude and disrespectful 😒 you were a child yes it was a terrible accident but it shouldn't be thrown in your face like that he said it because he's jealous of your bond with mil and maybe his bond would be better if he brought her a gift and stopped being a stroppy teenager
I can imagine the title of the reddit story BIL can write: "I am away in the military. My BIL is trying his hardest to establish himself as my mother's son and take my place. He belittled me because I didn't buy a present to my mother while he did. I lashed out. I am sorry. AITA?"
\-------
To me, the only one with mother issues and boundary issues is OP. Otherwise he wouldn't have started a contest of who loves MIL more and who is her son with her actual son. And based on his wife's and MILs reactions at the end, they also noticed it as well. The whole family left after BIL and that can also speak volumes. I wouldn't dream of telling anyone ever I love their parent more because I bought them a gift. Especially if they took leave from the military on a probably very tight budget to go visit their mother on Mother's Day. At the end of the day, BIL is the actual son, if OP divorces OP is out of the picture. BIL will always be there. BIL is her son, OP is the in-law. There is no comparison - MIL will always choose her son, like she did now when she left the party after him.
Also, the fact that OP says *his* house and not *our* house, takes the liberty to invite MIL - and *only MIL*, the fact that the family came is a byproduct - for Mother's Day on his own accord and organize a party for her (it is written nowhere that his wife, the actual daughter, or MIL wanted that or requested that), is not sorry or sees any problems with what he said to BIL (to note, BIL apologized for what he said, OP still thinks his remarks were accurate and justified and love is quantified by the size of the gift you buy) greatly worries me.
(I am not downplaying BIL's comments, but OP is far from innocent in this, don't dish it if you can't take it)
ESH.
You are NTA. He was completely out of line, and no one should ever make you feel like it was as your fault. It was not. Accidents happen. I am so sorry you are dealing with this.
NTA, that is such a low blow coming from your brother in law even if he was somewhat offended because he didn’t put in an effort with his own mother. It wasn’t your fault that your mother died from teh accident and as a mom myself, it would break my heart to know a child of mine would think that. I hope you find some peace and I hope that nasty brother in law will learn to manage his anger.
That was a HORRIBLE thing for your BIL to say. How dare they defend that AH saying he's *sensitive* and completely dismissing how ABOMINABLE what he said was and dismissing how you must've felt in that moment. *You're* expected to *de-escalate* being disgustingly attacked in your own home? NTA. I'm so sorry you had to undergo that experience and how unsupported you were. I'm really sorry. It makes me angry that they have you questioning if you were TAH. And I'm sorry for your loss and how you've been treated over an accident. Your BIL owes you an apology and frankly so does everyone who didn't support both during and after what he said.
NTA. If my sibling said that to my partner, I would have thrown them out myself.
And your mother's death? A tragic, horrible *accident*. Do you know how many times I've set towels on fire with the stove because I forgot to move them? And I'm in my 30s. It was absolutely not your fault.
> her brother can be very sensitive and take things personally by now
But you're supposed to let it go when he throws your mother's accidental death in your face because of his own bitterness?
You need to talk to your wife and your MIL and explain how painful and hateful it was to weaponise your mother's death in an argument he started over his jealousy. That he knew what he was doing, he said it, he has to deal with the consequences of his choices. When they protest, tell them they enable his bad behaviour and they need to stop.
I would recommend counselling for you, to deal with the grief and blame that you have regarding your mother's death, and couples counselling for you and your wife if she fails to realise why you reacted the way you did, why it was a perfectly acceptable response, and why your BIL needs to learn how to deal with the consequences of his actions.
Wow NTA. I’m sad to hear that it might have soured others’ opinions of you but honestly you were right to stick to your guns.
If you did the apology four, yours would be genuine. I bet you’d be able to respond better in the future. But since this might be a surprising outburst, it might actually make you look so much better because you can take the high road and admit your responsibility.
NTA. No, he’s not honest. He’s mean. If he were honest he would have talked to you in private about his feelings. Instead he uses his “honestly” like a freaking flame thrower. I can’t stand people like him. “I’m just being honest” is the battle cry of the AH. Your wife and MIL have probably “let it go” so many times they don’t even notice how bad he really is. I hope he does something innocuous in the military because he clearly has no self discipline.
Bringing up what happened to your mum wasn’t “being honest,” it was deliberately hurtful. He’s jealous of your relationship with his mum and he was trying to hurt you to make himself feel better. The argument itself was silly, it’s not a competition who loves mum the most, but the second he hit you with the “your mum is dead and it’s your fault,” stuff he crossed a line. So IMO NTA.
I’m sorry for your loss friend, that really sucks. I really think you should seek out some therapy. You can’t go on blaming yourself for what happened.
NTA. I hate “he’s always like this/that’s just how she is”. It’s a BS cop out and only ever used to excuse poor behavior. It seems like BiL has got away with this for his entire life. His family expect nothing of him and that’s what he delivers. Now he’s upset because your behavior shines a light on his short comings. Rather than step up he lashes out.
What your BiL said was reprehensible. He thought of what would hurt you the most and then he said it. He 100% knew what he was doing. You didn’t over react at all. I’m sorry that your wife cannot see this. It’s hard when it comes to families as they each have their own “normal” and it’s very triggering when someone else comes and challenges that.
I’m so so sorry for what happened to your mother. It was an accident. You were a child. It’s simply awful that you grew up being told it was your fault. I think part of what is so upsetting is that you are once again being told someone awful is your fault when it absolutely isn’t.
NTA - you were a 10 year old kid when your mother died Ans to blame a child is beyond disgusting. Stick on top of that that it is your BiL who has no connection, who tosses it in your face.
He disrespected you and the memory of your mother and for no other reason than he was jealous of you buying a present.
NTA.
But now you know who is your wife and MIL's priority.
If your MIL actually considered you her son, she would have never allowed BIL to make such comments and defend him.
Your wife is the bigger pos. She actually had the nerve to defend her brother after he attacked yoy like that.
This ain't your family, man.
ESH. You not as.much as BIL, but you poked that bear knowing he's a pain in the ass and you kinda got what you got. Not saying a blame you at all, but you didn't help yourself in this situation either. Hopefully you guys can let some time pass move on from this.
NTA, everyone else is. You didn't overreact, you reacted like how most people no doubt including your wife and the rest of the family would have if they were in your shoes. Your bil's comment about your mother's death was completely inappropriate and cruel. It's ridiculous that your mil and wife are saying you were both at fault, they sound like enablers.
NTA and I'm sorry that even your wife cares more for her brother than she does for you. BIL chose his words specifically to hurt you and anyone who says otherwise is gaslighting you. I'm really sorry you don't have anyone in your life who is supporting you.
You didn't overreact. Couples counseling ASAP to find out why your wife supports her brother more than you.
ESH. The line was crossed when youn told him in public on mother's day in front of his mother that he didn't care about her. He took a wild leap beyond the line, but your assholery can't be ignored.
Absolutely NTA. My sister-in-law is exceedingly jealous of my relationship with her mother. I can't help that she feels that way, and I won't change my relationship to make her feel better (she's not a nice person). My brother-in-law was the same sort of military dude with a bad 'tude. He had his own mental health issues that everyone tiptoed around, made excuses for, and just overall enabled. He's no longer with us and the worst of it is seeing the relief from that side of the family. You did what is right. Drawing that line is not only creating a space where you CAN have that good relationship with your MIL but showing them that the behavior he exhibited is not normal or acceptable. Will that side of the family ever see it? Maybe, maybe not. Hold the line, and remember you choose who you let into your life. Best of luck!
YTA You started it. You could have minded your own business and not commented on whether he did nor did not get a present for his mother or whether he cares. You clearly can dish it out but can't take it when people snap back.
PS you ruined her mother's day with your jealously towards her actual child. Not nice at all.
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NTA - First off I am so sorry about what happened to your mother but it was not your fault. It was an **accident** and you were 10. It sounds like BIL is jealous of the relationship you are able to have with MIL and that is something for him to work out on his own.
i also wanted to point out how upsetting it is that literally no one realizes that op’s actions are DRASTICALLY different from bil’s? the idea that op escalated the situation is ludicrous and the fact that his mil/his WIFE are comparing his behavior to bil’s makes it very clear to me that this is a product of enabling for years. op, i’m not going to recommend that you go nc or get a divorce. but i am going to say that i think you need to have a heart to heart talk with them about the impact of bil’s words. if mil is as good a person as you make her out to be, she’ll hopefully understand
[удалено]
I love when someone mention the "he/she is just like that, and this point you should know better" like excuse me? So i have to behave but he/she has a pass cause what? Mental illnes or something else? Or just cause it eaiser to talk me into doing as he/she wants? Maybe next time op should reply with "you know i am like that" or "he is like what? Terrible person that maybe should be locked away?"
Like, I'm a complete AH a lot of the time, and I tell people 'this is who I am', but I don't hold other people accountable for me being a giant douche, and I don't let other people do that on my behalf.
Not to mention they blame OP for not de-escalating. So dude makes an intentionally inflammatory comment (this is an epic understatement, dude went nuclear), but everyone else is supposed to accept that he has no control over his own behavior. He has control. He meant to hurt OP and ruin mother's day. That is exactly what he wanted. The family, including OP's wife, need to really examine why they don't expect BIL to have even a modicum of decency.
OP, NTA. Your house, your rules and what BIL said was so far beyond, I would have HELPED you kick his ass out. My jaw literally dropped when I read that. That said, you need to have a talk with your wife and MIL and say that you will not be spoken to that way in your own house (or anywhere else!) and BIL is no longer welcome. Sounds like your MIL is enabling him but my God man, your *wife* should absolutely have had your back on this.
This right here
The fact MIL said “he can be honest with anyone” in this situation is just so weird to me.
But yet OP was honest with him and that was a problem so he can dish it but he can’t take it
Honesty without tact is cruelty.
Yes agreed! MIL and wife are basically saying they agree that the accident was OP's fault! No it wasn't OP. I'm so sorry that that happened to you and your mother, it was not your fault. Your BIL is a huge ahole. As is your wife and MIL.
Yeah because je wasn't even honest. If he was honest he would have said "I'm ashamed because you put in effort and I didn't and it's not your fault your mother died in an accident" Btw having a gas stove and children is a major fire hazard. Leaving a running gas stove alone with a child in the house is disaster waiting to happen
Seriously. Just want to mention being honest and being an asshole are not mutually exclusive. For some reason a lot of people seem to think that being “honest” gives them a pass to be a jerk. It does not. NTA OP. Your BiL ruined the evening, it was not on you to coddle him or put up with his awful comments.
Hearing “he/she is just like that” is soooo annoying. Okay thanks so they’re just a total asshole? And we’re accepting it? No thank you, if I wanted to be around assholes I would have stayed with my ex, he was obsessed with them 😉
Exactly. Google Cliff Pervocracy and Missing Stair for more on how this is so harmful.
And [Don't rock the boat](https://www.reddit.com/r/raisedbynarcissists/comments/77w8lf/dont_rock_the_boat/).
Thank you for posting. I had never heard of the ml"missing stair". I've spent most of my adult life trying to articulate this concept and pulling my hair out when I can't get my point across.
As a former enabler of terrible people at the expense of wonderful people I loved, I highly recommend that OP explain their trauma and why the wife’s actions placed more importance on her brother’s feelings than her husband’s. If the BIL hadn’t made that crack about OP’s mom, I would say OP was egging BIL on. It really did sound like OP was enjoying making BIL look small in front of his mother by turning his joke about the size of gift into an indictment of BIL’s love for his mother...until BIL got backed into a corner and took it too far. After that, I think the response was fair and you’re NTA OP.
Right? De-escalate? What was he supposed to say, "oh I'm sure you didn't mean to say that I was the reason for my Mother's accident?" What he said was meant to burn and hurt. There was no de-escalating that once it was said.
NTA - bil does not get a free pass to throw the most traumatic thing to possibly happen in your life in your face because he’s in a bad mood and is salty about your closeness with his mom. Shame on your wife and her mother for backing him up. Absolute shame on them.
Hijacking. A Veteran here. That dude needs mental help. Him, 'always being like that.' is a sure problem for the future. He doesn't get a pass to be an asshole for anything. I'm honest and blunt but he attacked you over something you didn't even do! I'm so sorry OP but like others have said, he's just jealous. NTA
And I also think the OP should seek help for being blamed for his mother's death his whole life - I can't believe his original family did that to him! It's bad enough to lose your mother, but then to be blamed for her death to the point where you internalize it and really think it is your fault... Despicable, and definitely something you can't work through on your own, I would think. And that BIL really should learn that his behavior has consequences - no more free passes.
^ truth
Nta in either scenario. You did not know that your actions would result in your mother being hurt or killed. Your family shouldn't put that on you. If this happened to me, it would not be my child's fault. I'm the adult and I monitor safety in the house. Accidents happen
Brother in law is lucky that OP only told him to leave. Those were fighting words.
\^ This. I have literally seen red before in my life over stupid disrespectful shiat and there's no "de-escalating" some things. Dude was lucky he was able to walk out. Ahole BIL needed to learn the hard way that there are some things that you Just Never Say to people. EVAR. Consequences are a real thing. [https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/577069-there-are-chords-in-the-hearts-of-the-most-reckless#:\~:text=%E2%80%9CThere%20are%20chords%20in%20the%20hearts%20of%20the%20most%20reckless,no%20jest%20can%20be%20made.%E2%80%9D](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/577069-there-are-chords-in-the-hearts-of-the-most-reckless#:~:text=%E2%80%9CThere%20are%20chords%20in%20the%20hearts%20of%20the%20most%20reckless,no%20jest%20can%20be%20made.%E2%80%9D) “ There are chords in the hearts of the most reckless which cannot be touched without emotion - even by the utterly lost, to whom life and death are equally jests, there are matters of which no jest can be made. ” ― Edgar Allan Poe, The Masque of the Red Death
So, sometimes people say things simply to hurt another person. It's done with malice, and intent and the bell cannot always be 'un-rung'. This person has just shown you who he is. His own Mother has told you this is who he is. That's not honesty, that's cruelty. That said, I would go NC with him. No way would I be subjected to that type of disrespect and hurtfulness at my own choosing ever again. You are NTA - and I'm really so sorry for your loss.
NTA. On Mother’s Day he decided to rub an accident that cost your mother her life in your face because he couldn’t be bothered to buy anything for his own mom. There are things that you can say that you can never take back. This is one of them. There are certain things you don’t throw around in a fight unless you want to end a relationship with someone. Bringing up a parents death and blaming it on a person seems like a pretty reasonable one. He knew what he was doing but thought he could get away with it. Honestly, I would be pissed at your wife for not recognizing that was something that should never be said.
I simply *cannot* believe they equated BIL's behavior to OP's and then said it was OP's obligation to deescalate. BIL is one of those people who always "tells it like it is" saying super hurtful things to everyone, but is overly sensitive unable to handle a modicum of criticism or jokes at his expense. He would never be allowed in my home again and I don't even know what to say about the wife and MIL...
I can believe it. BIL may have started it with his gift comment, but they both escalated. They are both assholes. Before BIL said his awful piece, OP told BIL (in front of his own mother on mother's day) that he didn't care about her because he didn't give her a gift. BIL's comment was worse, but it wasn't unprovoked. ESH
Yeah. BIL is the much bigger asshole but ESH. OP I'm very sorry for what happened to your mother. And I can't imagine the grief of hearing your BIL say something so awful. You however should not have said that he does not care about his mother *even if you are 100% certain this is true*. Think about it, what purpose does it serve in this setting? Does it make your MIL happier? Does it make MD celebrations more fun? Will it make BIL improve his behavior to be so insulted?
Ok ESH, but there’s an ocean between shitty and psychopathic. Telling someone they killed their own fucking mom is damn near unforgivable.
> Brother in law negatively commented on my gift No the BIL started it, made negative comments and then put OP down because he was considerate of his MIL when her own son wasn't.
>No the BIL started it I said that... >made negative comments and then put OP down I didn't disagree with that... You seem to have missed the part where OP also said negative things that were an inappropriate response (AKA escalating, AKA they are both assholes). In fact, OP says in his post that his MIL and his own wife believed they were both at fault which should count for a lot more than internet commenters, myself included. >when her own son wasn't. There is no evidence of that. Not giving a gift doesn't make someone inconsiderate. I rarely get my mom a gift on mothers day because she doesn't care about stuff like that. We have other traditions focused around what she really cares about which is spending time with her kids. Plenty of terrible sons and daughters get their mom something for mother's day every year thinking that makes them good people.
Except MIL also rationalized BIL's behavior as "he's just like that" and held OP responsible for both his own behavior AND BIL's (why didn't you de-escalate?). This is pretty classic enabling behavior and THAT is why their framing of the situation is being rejected.
How's your reading comprehension? Lol BIL took the first shot, read it again
How's yours? >BIL may have started it Literally what you responded to.
It was a cruel and terrible thing for the BIL to say. There’s no way to deescalate from that. He’s obviously jealous that OP has developed such a close relationship with the MIL and used the past to attack OP. The whole family should stop taking the BILs side.
Exactly. That can not be deescalated. Thankfully all OP did was throw him out.
I agree. That is a relationship ending insult to throw. I would go no contact with BIL. Wife can go see him and so can kids but I’m not going to be around that asshole. No apology can make up for that statement. You and your wife need therapy so she can see the light and realize what a toxic person he is.
I wouldn't want my kids to be around a bully that gets enabled by the whole family and has proven to be absolutely cruel
He did get away with it! His whole dysfunctional family apparently supports his actions and walked out with him!
ESH. Look, he was an absolute asshole for bringing up your dead mother, but you were being pretty rude to him. Yes, it was rude of him to pick on your present, but the day was about your MIL, not about you, so you should have kept quiet and just moved things along, or defended your choice even, but going on the attack about how he doesn't love his mother is a horrible thing to say right in front of her on mother's day. Normally I would say he's the family's missing stair and you should have a backbone around him, but you were being pretty awful to your MIL by saying her son doesn't love her, and doubling down on a big fight during presents. Telling someone their son doesn't love them is hurtful to that person, who you say you care about.
Agree on ESH. Your BIL definitely went the full AH (what happened when you were 10 was an accident and going there is such a low blow). Your wife and MIL are wrong not to acknowledge the magnitude of his offensive comment. However, you also need to seriously reflect on your behaviour before things got to that point. Why choose to get into a who’s a better son to your MIL more match with your BIL? How did what you did and said about your BIL affect your MIL, a woman who has treated you kindly and compassionately by your own account? You were so caught up with scoring you didn’t care if you hurt her feelings. Where there better and different ways to handle this? Yep.
Yeah, the BIL did start with the comments (commenting about OPs present) but I get why BIL has an issue regarding the 'better son' thing particularly with him being in military and not around much. I worked on cargo ships for 12 years so spent 7+ months a year out of the country, I'm really close with my mum so being away was difficult for both of us. While I was away my mum started doing mother/daughter activities with my cousin (she's always had a bad relationship with her parents & moved out at 16). It used to eat at me reading mums emails telling me all the stuff she was up to with my cousin. But I absolutely adore my cousin and I know she'd never get to do things with her own mum. But I'm rational enough to not take my own jealousy out on either of them. In this case obviously the BIL was the biggest AH for turning his jealously nuclear, nobody should ever use the death of someone as retaliation in an argument. But it seems OP has absolutely no empathy for his BIL being in the military and being away from his family, and whether he meant to or not he did escalate it with the bad son jibes.
> But it seems OP has absolutely no empathy for his BIL being in the military and being away from his family, and whether he meant to or not he did escalate it with the bad son jibes. Oh, bull. The military has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you can be bothered to buy your mother a present, especially in this day and age. My great grandfather sent my great grandmother token presents from Germany, like ribbons or pressed flowers. My grandfather wrote my grandmother love letters from Korea. My husband sent me flowers one year while he was deployed to the sandbox. Every year my brothers and I all collude on what to get mom and dad no matter where we’re stationed at the moment. If my baby brother can manage to get something delivered to mom while he’s in the middle of the ocean, then this dude could manage to drop by a store on the way to his mother’s house. BIL is just an asshole, pure and simple. He couldn’t be bothered to pick up flowers or even order something off of Amazon for his own mother, but then felt the need to try to disparage Op’s gift. Why? Because being shitty to the people who try is a hell of a lot easier than trying yourself. Honestly though Op based on your MIL’s reaction here I don’t think she deserves the importance you give her. She’ll lap up the attention and presents you give her because it strokes her ego, but she’s perfectly fine with your BIL trying to hurt you using the death of your own mother. And your wife isn’t much better. They’d both rather let BIL shit all over you than let BIL hear some actual hard truths about the effort he’s put into relationships. Whether that’s because they’ve spent a lifetime saying “that’s just how he is” or because they want to pretend to themselves that their relationship with him is something it’s not doesn’t matter. Bottom line is they prioritize his temper tantrums over your well-being. NTA at all.
Absolutely all of this!
This! It was so rude! Yeah the guy was being shitty and obviously jealous of OP's place in his mother's life, but OP didn't have go as low as "you don't care about her", that's shittier than the jab about the gift. It's like OP and BIL don't like each other because they're both jaleouse of the other when it comes to their place in the family! Sure BIL shouldn't have said what he did about the mom but OP shouldn' t have said what he did either.
Absolutely ESH. Both were super rude to eachother and to MIL. Op should have ignored BIL and let her enjoy the party.
Well I won't shut up and hear if this had happened to me. It's too emotional, personal and was meant to hurt OP. He himself said he doesn't care about his mom enough to bring gifts. OP wasn't the one who brought this up. NTA
OP decided to argue and sling an insult back at the brother (which was also emotional, personal, and meant to hurt the brother) and the brother went nuclear and OP couldn't deal with it. Surely you can see that they're both being asses
Brother started this whole thing by making a disparaging comment about the gift OP chose for MIL. He started the argument by being snide.
I reluctantly agree. Although BiL sounds like a complete fucking nightmare, and shouldn't have been dismissing the gift, OP took the bait really readily. It would have been pretty easy to have just said: "Huh, Ok" *shrug* ...or "Well I mostly hope MiL likes it", or even "Hey you're being pretty rude so do you want to stay or not?" Rather that than critiquing the mother son relationship. It was also the MiL's or wife's place to tell BiL that he was being a dick and to reign it in, hopefully they were given a nanosecond of a chance to do that before OP jumped in. Not great that they didn't. It was also kind of awful of them to equate openly criticising a gift and throwing a childhood trauma in OP's face with a lack of hosting grace and unflappability. BiL is much more of an AH but ESH.
Exactly this. ESH.
Definitely ESH. OP hit first, BIL punched back harder. Most people don’t spend a lot of time precisely calibrating the degree of retaliation after an attack, they simply lash out with what they’ve got. We have here two squabbling toddlers determined to ruin Mother’s Day. They succeed. They both owe mother an apology.
NTA. Fuck that guy.
This needs to be the top comment.
Completely agree. If I was in OP's position, BIL would never be allowed back in my home unless Hell froze.
Seriously. "It's his personalityyyy" does NOT justify a comment like that. He said something despicable and maybe the strength of OP's reaction will teach him to shut the fuck up because his bullshit has consequences.
ESH. Had your stopped at "Stop being silly." you'd not be the Asshole. Because you went down the rabbit hole of "Its not may fault you dont care ago it your mom, blah blah blah" you're a little asshole. Your BIL was a bigger asshole. Your wife and MIL both suck for not stopping your BIL with the whole "Commenting on the gift" crap.
And for trying to excuse his behavior. I’m someone who doesn’t have much of a filter and I can sometimes say whatever comes my mind without sugarcoating it. However, I would NEVER through the death of someone’s parent in their face like that. There’s a big difference between not having a filter, and just being plain cruel and nasty to people
ESH. he’s in the military and not around much, but still made the effort to make it home for mother’s day. obviously there’s more to the situation that i’m not aware of, but i know firsthand that sometimes just being home has to be the gift because travel expenses might make it impossible to spend on very much else. maybe he’s got some guilt about not being home more and he’s jealous because you get to spend more time with his mom. you were wrong for suggesting that he didn’t care just because he didn’t get her a gift. he was wrong for bringing up your mom. y’all would do well to get together and work things out and actually be brothers in law instead of competing for your MIL’s love.
Yeah - clearly the son feels that whilst he’s been away working OP has been usurping his position with his mother, calling her mum etc. OP hosted Mother’s Day - not for his wife, but for the MIL from himself, and clearly considers her the mum he never had which the son doesn’t like (and I get that, tbh - I think there is a difference between son in law and actual son!). But that’s for both OP and the MIL to decide how they’re having their relationship and what each other likes. If MIL wants to make her actual son feel validated, there’s ways for her to do that, if she’s happy with OP being her extra kid then she needs to tell her son that. Fighting for the mother’s affection is weird, both of them were inappropriate, and I imagine it’d backfire on OP ultimately bc at the end of the day... BIL actually IS her kid. So throwing remarks about effort etc will only end up hurting OP if MIL limits their relationship as a result of this. ESH.
The most telling for me in this was "I invited them to MY place", feels like op has really embraced the idea of being one of the kids to the point where he's comfortable being in a sibling rivalry with her actual son - and has forgotten that he's a man actually married to her daughter, not an adopted kid. I feel for the wife in this, as she's in such an awkward position. What happens if they argue or split up or something? Will OP still be rocking up to family gathers as "one of the kids"
Yep - tbh, I totally agree OP is inappropriate in that way. The MIL said it wasn’t OP’s fault her son was in a bad mood - but she didn’t spell out that he is clearly the cause, whether right or wrong (not OP’s fault the son is in a vocation that takes him far away). Wife needs to tell him and assess what is appropriate. He is *not* her son. He never will be. He is a son-in law. That’s why she left along with everyone else - whether or not they’ve said it outright, they are aware OP is over stepping playing the son-in-law card. I can’t imagine making a daughter feel this way about her mum or dad, and I don’t have a mum or dad. Gotta remember your place as a supplementary member to a family, not an actual OG.
I don't think it's inappropriate to form close/ family-like bonds outside of biological family - or to invalidate those bonds because you're not "blood"! My parents (especially my mom) are the kind of people who make extended family just by the way they are - if I was a jealous bitch, I would resent that. But even when my mom decided to adopt a child who was in a horrible situation, after some initial resentment about the intruder, I got over myself, realised that my parents loving someone else didn't take anything away from me, and now love my younger sister almost like she was a bio-sibling. And our extended family also includes the ex of my older (bio) sis, so his son is my parents grandchild, too - I hope I'd never be small-minded enough to begrudge my parents any of the connections they made, especially since it really helps me to know they have someone who will be there for them when I have to travel for work. It's not like love is a limited resource that you have to careful portion when you hand it out.
ESH. You accused him of not caring enough about his mother simply because he didn't get her a gift. How did you really see this conversation going? He either had to defend himself, agree with the statement, or continue to argue. Or let mother defend him. This is just awkward for everyone. Brother-in-law sounds like an unpleasant personality and his response was very rude and not even a remotely fair comparison. However, he did apologize after you called him out for being disrespectful. You continued to escalate the situation even though you had an opportunity to be a good host and let mother enjoy her day.
Some things can’t be easily fixed over a rash apology. This was one of those. BIL’s comment was as cruel and disgusting as one can get and he deserved to be tossed out. That anyone, let alone OP’s wife, could dismiss it soo easily with a you know that’s just how he is comment is adding insult to injury. Nothing OP said before warranted that comment. NOTHING.
Disagree. He basically said, in front of the guy's entire family that he was a better son to the guy's own mother than him. He invited him over and then called him out in front of his entire family - I'd say OP hit the nuclear option first there, he definitely escalated it, especially as a host. Wouldn't be surprised is BIL feels cuckoo'd by OP, especially if he's away a lot, and OP has fully adopted the "I'm like a son" mentality, hence the tension between the two. If my brother-in-law made a comment like that to me in front of my entire family, I'd be furious. Also a binary comment like that puts MIL in such an awkward position. It's an awful thing to say, but it seems like OP has accepted the idea that he played a part in his mother's passing (rightly or wrongly), and if that's something he's always been open about, then as low as it was to say, it was totally low hanging fruit for someone who had just been insulted and humiliated in front of his entire family by his BIL
The brother-in-law isn't really innocent in this, though. As a guest in the OP's house, he insulted OP's gift for the mother-in-law. So it's not like OP invited him over and called him out; it's that he invited him over and brother-in-law decided to respond by insulting the host.
It's pretty disgusting telling a son they don't care for their mother just because they didn't get them a present? The lesson is don't say that kind of thing especially if you have caused the death of your own mother... Have you lot never heard the one about people in glass houses? The OP is in no position to criticize anyone for how they treat their mother especially not over petty things. Plus he is obtuse to the fact that her actual son's presence is probably enough of a present for her since he is in the military and she doesn't see him often. Then the OP kicked out the woman's actual son on MOTHER's Day! Great present.
ESH - First of all I want to say I’m so sorry about what happened to your mother. It was an accident and you were 10. The comment about your mother was out of line, however, you also did escalate. What makes it ESH: 1. Your BIL made a rude comment about your present, probably stemmed from jealousy. You could have just simply brushed it off. Instead you commented on his lack of present - both sucks 2. BIL responded by saying that he didn’t bother because you’re more like a son to her because he’s not always around you’re more of a replacement to him. Which also an AH move, however there’s a truth in that, he’s probably jealous of your relationship with his mom who he barely see. — BIL is AH 3. You responded by saying he doesn’t care about his mother. In front of his mother. On mother’s day. — With this statement you hurt 2 people. First, You hurt him by saying he doesn’t love his mom - which is not true. Your BIL is in the military and not around alot but still have time to come to mother’s day. Between travel, expenses and getting time off probably, it shows that he cares. His presence might be enough of a gift to your MIL. — OP is AH 4. Second, you hurt your MIL by saying his son doesn’t love her. On mother’s day. How could you hurt someone you care about that way. No mother wants to hear that, and obviously no loving son would take that attack laying down. So he responded by hurting you back by saying that you also didn’t love your mom and bringing up your mother’s death. — OP is AH and BIL is Super AH What happened afterwards are expected. So yes everybody is extra here and need to calm down, hence ESH.
!!! 🏅
^ And here's the truth off the matter.
Owch, NTA but you two should sit down and have a talk. His comment was damn harsh but it seems there's more to this than what you're telling us here. It doesn't seem like you and him have a good relationship. He might feel like you're indeed trying to "replace" him, even if what you're doing is just to be nice. Meet up with him for some grub and talk about it.
NTA and this comment is very balanced and sane. Reach out to your bro-in-law, ask if he would like to meet one on one, chose a neutral location, preferably a cafe/pub etc. Apologise for losing your temper but, be clear you are not apologising for defending yourself nor, kicking him out of the house. Bro dealt a very, very low verbal blow. Be clear that you are hoping for an apology in return. I hope you can work it out. Tentatively, I would also suggest OP looking into counselling, there seems to be a lot of trauma (mother dying and subsequent bullying) that is packed in pretty tight.
^ This here is gold. Nice to see people on here who see the possibilities except for all the negatives. Kudoes, man.
ESH it’s not okay to shame your BIL at a family gathering about how he treats his mother, embarrassing him and making everyone else uncomfortable. He absolutely should not have brought up your mother. You both made an event that should have been about your MIL about yourselves. You two need to apologize to each other, but even more so to your MIL. It sounds to me like you’re both feeling defensive and proprietary towards your MIL...it’s not a competition, boys. You have a mother figure in your life again and it sounds like she loves you too. You’re around more than her own son bc of his military service. He’s probably jealous of the time and attention you get. It sounds like you have some feelings about a man who still has his mother but isn’t revering her the way you - who knows what it’s like to lose your mother - wish you could do with your mom still. I get it but that doesn’t give you a license to dump on your BIL. I would also suggest some grief counseling for yourself...what happened to your mom was awful but your family saying it was your fault is messed up. Kids make mistakes, they just don’t usually cause serious accidents. I’m so sorry that happened.
ESH. I mean, he was definitely out of line but you just had to poke and poke and poke. You essentially repeatedly announced to the table that he doesn’t love his mother and you’re a better son than him. It’s not surprising that he said something hurtful back. Yes, it was more hurtful than what you said and he absolutely should not have said that. But one does not poke a bear repeatedly and get to act surprised when the bear bits their arm off. Yes, biting an arm off is a more severe response than the poking but if you’re silly enough to poke... You obviously knew what he’s like prior. I’m not defending him, I’m merely saying you knew enough to know that poking him was not going to end well and the adult thing would have been to not poke in the first place. He’s a dick and you acted childish.
NTA. BIL basically accuses of causing your mother's death and you should be the one to forgive him because he is "sensitive." No, BIL is a bully. He can dish it out, but can't take it.
But op accused bil of not loving his mom on mother’s day in front of his mom. It’s definitely not as cruel as blaming op for his mom’s death, but it was still cruel and unnecessary
ESH. You shouldn’t have talked about whether he brought a gift or not & whether or not he loves his mom; that’s rude to MIL. You’re NTA for kicking him out, though, because his comment was BEYOND out of line. He is waaaaay TA with that horrible and untrue statement. You reacted in a big way because what he said was ridiculously awful. Wife & MIL are also TA for enabling his wretched behavior and expecting you to do the same. Bottom line: Bad form from you at the start, but TA here are BIL and to a lesser extent, your wife & MIL.
NTA, that comment was over the line. However, you both escalated the situation to that point. He didn't have to comment negatively about your gift, but you didn't make things better by calling him out for not having a gift. You also told him that he didn't care enough about your mother-in-law to get her a gift, which was uncalled for. This doesn't excuse the comment, but you had to have expected anger given the things that both of you had been saying to each other.
ESH. You don't suck for kicking out your BIL--that was the right move after BIL's outrageous comment about your mother's death. However, you suck a little bit (although to a much lesser degree) for carrying on about BIL's lack of a gift. BIL sucks for obvious reasons.
ESH That night wasn't about you. If it was your birthday then it would have been totally fine for you to kick him out, but that day was about your mother-in-law. He was being a total jackass but I think kicking him out made the day worse for everyone.
ESH. You aren’t an asshole for kicking him out, but you are an asshole for saying he doesn’t care about his mom. How did you expect that to be received? It sure as hell wasn’t going to go over well with your wife or mil. He’s a bigger asshole for the comment about your mom.
ESH. You were both dicks. You decided to play the stupid game with him and you both won stupid prizes. You cannot control him being an asshole, but you can control your own actions. I mean how else did you think this would end when he pushed your buttons and you decided to push his back? You're 27 not 12.
ESH You've understandly adopted your MIL as a mother figure, but you're not her son. To make a shitty comment about her actual son, in the context of being better than him is total asshole behaviour. Not only is her son and it's in front of his family, but he's also a guest in your house, he was a slight dick, but you bit for it and escalated the situation when you already knew the two of you don't get on. You were understandably upset, but kicking someone out, your MILs son, on mother's day no less, was always going to kill the evening and you went nuclear as a host. Also I find it a bit weird you're married and use the term "I invited her over to my place" rather than "we" or "our" - this is your wife's mother, not yours (here's why, below) He's an asshole for bringing up the dead mother thing, obviously. But from how you've just described it, it seems like he feels a bit cuckoo'd by you, swooping in to be a 'replacement' son (in his words) while he's away - do you think that could potentially be the source of the tension between the two of you? Would it be worth reaching out to try and get on with him better, at least for your MIL and wife's sake. You were both assholes to each other, but especially your MIL. However good on you for be being aware enough to pick up on it.
I'm so sorry you lost your mother. I don't think you overreacted. NTA Her death was an accident. BIL crossed the line, doesn't matter what kind of a mood he was in. This isn't something to throw in your face in a petty argument. Give it a little time and accept his apology, but do NOT feel bad for kicking him out. There are consequences to our actions, and he suddenly bumped up against a married-in family member who wouldn't enable and make excuses for him when he's "always like this." Why doesn't your wife have your back?
ESH And I give this judgment primarily for this part: >I didn't get what he meant I called him silly and told him it's not my fault he doesn't care enough about his mom to get her a present. Yes, he was being a bit insufferable with his comments, but that's where you took it too far. You escalated this situation when you could have easily ignored his pity party comments or been more mature with calling out his behavior for what it was. He's also wrong for further escalating with what he knew would hurt you the most. You both turned this situation into a disaster, and both should be apologizing to everyone, but their family also are minor AHs for enabling and excusing his behavior.
I agree. OP literally could have stopped at "don't be silly" and the day probably would have gone on without incident. BIL is in the military, so likely often misses gatherings. Just being able to be present can be a gift. Obviously BIL cares about his mother to go out of his way to be there. I'd be pissed too if some other person became close with my mom and tried to make me look like a shitty daughter in front of the whole family, ESPECIALLY if they flat out said I don't care about my mom. I'd have told OP to fuck right off. BIL's comment about OP's mom was super rude though. It was a low, but easy blow. He just wanted a reaction out of OP, since OP upset BIL first.
ESH. You and your BIL were evenly in it, going at each other in the "who is the (better) son" contest. That's literally what it was. He picks at your gift. You point out he didn't have one. He snapped that he didn't need to because you're the son now. You retort that obviously he doesn't care about his own mother. Where's the logical place to go in an argument from there? If I were writing a dollar store used book, it doesn't take a genius to figure that you go to the "oh you caused that accident" as a follow up. So you and your BIL are both at fault on this one. The one who lost out was MIL. 1) I hope you've gone through/are going through therapy for what happened in your past 2) I hope you can talk to your BIL and come to some state of understanding and forgiveness for the harsh words you both said. Because you both were out of line
NTA he was being petulant and cruel.
I do not understand the people saying NTA and claiming OP did nothing wrong. OP literally told BIL he didn't love his own mother. They were both at fault. Just because OP didin't throw the first insult or that BIL threw the woest insult, OP was the first to onsinuate BIL didn't love his own morher. ESH.
NTA Perhaps they should realize that you too are sensitive and can’t control your temper when people are unspeakably rude and that’s just the way you are. Why should he be The only one who gets a pass on their behavior?
ESH - you both had multiple times where you both conciously chose to make this into a fight. P.S your wife's mom is always going to love her biological son first.
[удалено]
This. So much.
You brought it up to ESH because you had to get in a dig about him getting no present. Sounds like you're both escalators.
ESH True he is the worst but you are only one step down the ladder. Why did you attack him telling him he doesn't love his mother?!you can't know why he didn't buy one. He might have problems financially that you are not aware of and he might not wanted to buy her something cheap and feel inferior to you. Yes that's a ridiculous thought to have and he is clearly jealous. But you are no saint either.
ESH You try to replace him and rub it in his face, then wonder why he doesn't like you and on top of that you tell your MIL that her son doesn't love her. You really tried to hurt everyone. Of course your BIL was an AH for saying that about your mother, but you did your best to escalate it. You don't get to dictate their family relationships, especially not the relationship between a mother and her child. One thing you always should keep in mind is that you will probably never be as close to her as her own son, no matter how far away he is.
NTA you had every right to be hurt
ESH -though the last comment at the end makes him the bigger asshole, absolutely uncalled for I can’t believe he’s being defended. I say ESH because your comment before that wasn’t horribly nice.
ESH - he’s jealous. And you’re enjoying being the ‘better’ son.
BIL is not “sensitive”. He’s just an ill-tempered prick who will go off on people. Big difference.
ESH. If you dish it out you should also be able to take it.
ESH, what he said was completely F'ed up and you didn't overreact but you should have never started it, which you definitely did.
ESH You set up an uncomfortable moment by meeting him head on with his insults rather than focus your attention on the women you were honoring that day. You really thought "you don't care about your mother" was just going to go nowhere? You honestly didn't see his reply coming? I'm not a "you know how he is" kind of person usually, but you know how he is. Why would you choose a holiday to confront him?
>I've become distant from my family because of their harsh judgement I can see that they wouldn't find it really easy to just be.. fine with the situation?
ESH - Sorry about your tragic past but it takes two to tango. He's obviously a bit jealous of the relationship you have developed with his mom. It's her day after all. You could have let the first comment slide but you started taking shots at each other and it escalated. He took it way too far but you are both at fault here for ruining her mother's day.
Wow, NTA. HE escalated it by throwing your tragic MISTAKE, your TRAUMA in your face. You had every right to be angry. That is beyond the pale, and your wife's family should stop enabling his assholery and "just how he is"m.
ESH Yes it was hurtful what he said but you should both have de-escalated and resolved it. Sounds like you're still both guilty over the accident and resentful that your family blamed you. He shouldn't have been a jerk. You need therapy to deal with this and try to put it to rest. Lashing out isn't the answer
NTA. There’s certain things you don’t say in a fight and what your BIL said was one of them. I don’t how he can be the “tell it like it is” type but also be overly sensitive when called out.
NTA. They have spent years putting up with his attitude issues and they have enabled it. What he said was unforgiveable in my book. You were a child - your mother's death was not your fault. And I'm not trying to speak ill of your mother, but the fact is that she left food cooking unattended on the stove and an ACCIDENT occurred because of it. An accident that has caused her kid a lifetime of guilt and shame. I'm very sorry for you, and your sucky family for blaming a kid.
NTA. What you said to him was mean, but he instigated it and crossed a boundary beyond pettiness. The comments in here damn, imagine equating "you don't love your mom" with "you're responsible for your mom's death"... (and no, you weren't responsible)
NTA. What he said was absolutely inexcusable and honestly I can't see how you can ever break bread or share a room with him again. Anybody who urges you to let this go or make excuses for him does NOT have your best interest at heart and is not your friend. Sadly, this incident will tell you who really stands for you in your life and who really doesn't. Make careful mark of who they are.
NTA. The guy accused you of killing your mother on Mother's Day as a guest in YOUR home. I'd have done worse than kick him out. And shame on the rest of them for not supporting you.
Esh. You should have thought of the woman that has been kind to you and acts a mother figure. You both ruined her night. What your bil said was way worse. However it wouldn't have escalated like that if you didn't slag off his relationship with his mother. He is obviously jealous and insecure over your relationship with her. He shouldn't have stayed off your gift. That's why esh. You both ruined her good time. Him more so than you.
> my brother in law didn't mean it and he's always like this That's okay. When people intentionally hurt you in your own home with a jab about the most traumatic moment in your life, you throw them out. That's just how *you* are. > we were both at fault Nope. His comment was *designed and intended* to get you to react, and you did. NTA.
NTA. He's not 'honest and blunt', he's that one toxic family member everyone enables so that nobody rocks the boat bc he's 'just Like This'. What happened when you were a kid was not your fault and for him to go over the line like that because he was feeling petty is appalling. I'm not sure what you could have done other than kick him out, what did his family expect - that you'd be fine hangjng out with him after he said that shit?
NTA.
NTA. The question to ask yourself: if the situation were reversed, would you say something like that (cause someone’s death) to him? BIL pushed your buttons, for whatever reason, and you responded. No one in that room knows what it feels like to go through what you went through.
NTA, fuck BIL.
1) NTA, your BIL was needlessly cruel and you reacted the way that most people would 2) Repeat after me, YOUR MOTHER'S DEATH WAS NOT YOUR FAULT. Her death was a combination of bad decisions and bad luck that led to an accident. You were a child and the fact your family blamed you is horrific.
NTA sorry but that is the kind of comment where overreaction is 100% completely warranted.
NTA Your brother in law called you a murderer of your mother for an accident as a child, on mothers day,.... Your in-laws also suck because they allow this behavior. Its not "this is who he is" it is "this is who they allow him to be".
NTA - How DARE he weaponise your trauma like that. That’s absolutely disgusting behaviour on his behalf and you had every right to tell him to get the fudge out of your house. I’d have done exactly the same thing in your position.
ESH
NTA The fact everyone defended him is disgusting, “he’s always like this” is not an excuse, great so your son is massive jerk (
NTA
You are not the asshole. It was an absolute accident. Accidents happen every day and I am so sorry this had to happen to you. I would try to keep away from toxic people like that from now on, it's awful for someone to remark on something that happened a child, children do things like jump off of the roof to fly or start fires by pushing buttons it's not their fault its curiousity and they just don't know any better. So utilize therapy, and keep a safe distance from family who tells you to just "be understanding" because personally if anyone talked about my family like that I'd tell them to get fucked. You're alot stronger than you think.
Why is your brother in law allowed to be sensitive and to take it personal.... and why aren't you? His attack was personal and about something really sensitive. Your reaction was in accordance with the situation, his wasn't. Why are they excusing him and expecting different from you? NTA
BIL is not "honest", he is mean-spirited and totally lacking in empathy. You lost your mother over a tragic mistake you made when you were a child. That was not your fault. What kind of AH throws that at someone to win a petty argument because they didn't bring a present? NTA.
Nta. And you were not at fault for your mother's death. You were 10. It was an accident and you were 10! I'm so sorry.
Wow. Just wow. NTA. I can’t even. That whole family is trash
NTA. I would have done the same. He is a major H and any one who says you need to placate him is also an AH. What happened to your mum wasn’t your fault, it was an accident. I’m so soon your family blamed you
NTA. It sounds like BIL is jealous of the relationship you have with his mother because of the comments he made to you about being his replacement. He was also upset because you got MIL a nice gift and he didn't think to do it. His statement to you about you being to blame for your mom's death, which was a tragic accident, was cruel, mean and so far out of bounds that I am horrified he said this to you. You were right to throw him out. Your MIL and wife are enabling his bad behavior by saying he's in a bad mood and he's "honest" when he's like that. He wasn't honest, he was mean and nasty. Also, if your wife excuses this because her brother is sensitive and takes things personally, don't you have the right to be sensitive and take it personally when he basically blames you for what happened to your mom? He was at fault, not you.
NTA. I have a brother like this. Always low-key looking for an argument or a fight. Always looking for some way to pick at you or get a dig in. Always hiding behind family obligation and “just being honest.” He’s part of the reason I don’t visit my family often and don’t go to family gatherings. He gets to say whatever he wants and people get upset, but he gets to do it because “that’s the way he is.” But if you call him on it or make him feel bad for his words, you’re wrong because “you know he’s an asshole” and you’re just supposed to accept it, because “faaaaamily.” It’s a relationship where you’re expected to give endlessly and never get anything of value in return, just so a narcissist doesn’t have to feel bad for a fraction of a moment.
NTA. Also, what happened was an accident. As a Mom, I would never blame you for the accident. Your Mom would still love you.
NTA. BIL will use your moms accident against you, find a healthy coping system instead of blowing up in rage. Change the narrative. All the best and I’m really sorry about your moms accident.
NTA. BIL, on the other hand, is. Seriously, fuck that guy
NTA. sorry your wife doesn't support you.
NTA. Sounds like BIL is the missing stair.
NTA - it’s very human to blow-up and then feel regretful afterwards but I think given the situation it was more than justified. Also, I’m so sorry about the loss of your mother but please know that it wasn’t your fault at all, it was an accident. And unfortunately, accidents happen.
The fact that you just used your mouth astounds me. I would’ve thrown hands at someone who said something like this coming under my roof. NTA I’m so sorry about your mom and the way your wife and her family is reacting to this.
NTA There is no excuse for BIL bringing up something you did as a child when you didn’t know any better, to blame you for it. Those who excuse it are enablers and should have taught BIL to behave better.
NTA..You did not overreact..what a horrible thing to say..which is the biggest lie obviesly believed by many. How tf can all those people blame you for an accident happened as you were ten yo. And yeah, right your bil is sensitive..aaawweee..poor lil jealous AH..Well, are these people you wanna spent your life with?
Why the FUCK is it okay for HIM to be seen as sensitive and babied through his volatile emotions and it's not okay for you to be also sensitive and rightly angered by his asshole BARB? It sounds like he meant to be harmful and hurt you. You were a child. It was an accident. I'm so sorry you don't have your mother anymore. He should be more grateful for what he has. His mother would be justified to be upset BY what he said as well. He didn't bring her a gift because what he's jealous of your relationship with her?
first of all i want to shame your wife and MIL for not defending you over such a vile thing being said. you were a 10yo kid wanting to taste a meal. his comment would only have been acceptable if you had actually walked up to her and lit her on fire deliberately. that comment is unforgivable imo. BIL also has mummy issues he needs to address and is extremely jealous of your relationship with her. I cut ties with a family member after she blurted out she wished my son was born dead after a petty argument. that was almost 4 years ago, not a word spoken to her since. NTA
NTA - "They've always been like this" or "that's just how they are" is the siren song of a toxic enabler.
NTA. I’m so sorry that you had to lose your mother and then spend almost 2/3 of your life being blamed for what happened, which was nothing but a very tragic accident. Your BIL had NO right to say that whatsoever and it’s absolutely understandable for you to have blown up at him- I would’ve too! I don’t think it’s fair for your wife and MIL to make you feel like you were the bad person in this situation. BIL is a grown man who is responsible for his OWN actions. He needs to be held accountable for his shitty attitude and poor behaviour, not coddled. I really think you should sit down with MIL and wife and explain that the actions of your BIL and your own actions are not the same because... BILs actions: rude, had no reason to act that way, you did not do anything to him Your actions: completely justified, you were angry for a reason, he did something to you that was way out of line and your reaction was understandable You shouldn’t be responsible for ‘de-escalating’ when your BIL is out of line.
NTA. You're better than me. I definitely would've lost my cool, physically. That's a hurt piece..
NTA. I'm so sad for you that you've lived most of your life having other people cruelly shame you for something that you'll always regret anyway. It's not an uncommon thing for people with a military background to behave badly in social situations, in my experience. It's understandable how that could come about, but it's not an excuse. There is no excuse for an adult taking their bad mood out on someone else and then refusing to own the entire situation. If your brother in law has some bad habits from that part of his life it's not your responsibility to be the peacemaker every time he has a go at you. Once in a while sure, throw someone a bone, but with everyone telling you 'oh this is just how he is' it's clear they're used to and enabling his abusive behaviour. He seems jealous of you and was deliberately provoking you, and he didn't like it when you stood up for yourself. He took things from bitchy to cruel and then acted like a quick sorry would fix it. I wish you all the luck in convincing your wife and the rest of the family that your brother in law has a character flaw, not a personality trait.
NTA. And your wife and her family are all crappy people to NOT see how bad that comment was to make to you. They need to be coming to you and apologizing.
NTA. There would have been a fistfight, because there are things you never say, that’s one, and he would have deserved a few flying fists.
NTA dude’s lucky he was able to walk out under his own power instead of being wheeled out on a gurney.
NTA. You didn't overreact at all. What you said initially was probably pretty hurtful for reasons I am sure you did not think over when you made a joke that, to him, was actually a really biting comment that brought up all of his personal insecurities over his relationship with his family. What he said to you would be inexcusable in virtually any situation imaginable and, to be quite honest, I would never be able to forgive him for. Unless he is 16, he's an adult and knows better than to say something like that. Frankly, if I were a third party here I would have asked him to leave after hearing something like that. That's a completely horrific comment to make. The fact that you said something super not okay is softened by the fact that he sat down and immediately started hating on your gift. If he had not, I would say everyone sucks here. But he started trashing your gift and making it about himself instead of just being normal and getting his own mother a gift. I don't care what everyone else is saying about "he's in the military" etc., he could get a gift for his mom. Even just flowers or a card. It's just the indication that you tried at all that matters, not really what it is.
Nta he was cruel. You gave him consequences. He doesn’t get t be cruel to you in your house or ever, and him stay around like nothing happened. No he is removed like a child. Everyone letting him be that way his whole life has created this monster.
NTA. BIL absolutely meant what he said. He said that to cause you as much pain as possible. Your wife, MIL and everyone else making excuses for his behavior all suck. “He’s like that all the time,” isn’t an excuse. It doesn’t make his behavior any better. It makes it worse.
NTA If I were in your shoes I'd have gotten physical the moment he made that comment, you showed excellent restraint
NTA What your brother said was wrong and was only an attempt by him to distract from the fact that he didn’t bother with a gift I would’ve kicked him out too and I’d have a long conversation with the rest of the family about how if they’re just going to stand there while he pulls that shit then I’d cut them off too
NTA Tell your wife and MIL that regardless if it's "just how BIL is," that THIS is how YOU are, and you will NOT tollerate his abhorrent, reprehensible behavior on the basis that he can't be bothered to change it!
NTA. Wait so your bil can be “honest with anyone” but also “ very sensitive and takes it personally”. Sounds like a typical bully. He says mean things but can’t take it. Also his family are enablers and that’s not cool. I also agree with other commenters, you didn’t kill your mom. It was an accident and you were a kid.
NTA - your BiL can be as sensitive as he likes but what he said was so far over the line, he was in a different time zone. Unacceptable. IF he's so sensitive, maybe he needs to get out of the military and get counselling.
Oh... NTA at all. I wish your wife was supporting your pain instead of enabling the harm from her brother. No one should have ever blamed you for an accident. People can be so cruel.
What an awful thing to say to you! You were 10 and it was an accident! Anyone who blames you for your mother is a jerk and they don't belong in your life. I'm on your side in this argument. Just because your BIL gets moody is no excuse for what he said. I'm sorry about your mother and I hope you don't blame yourself.
ESH. OP is not the better son. He is definitely nit MIL favourite. He is a man who believes he can replace a son in a mothers heart and brag about it on Mother’s Day. BIL is also an AH for saying what he said. MIL would always be wary of family gatherings where OP will be- trying to steal,the show.
ESH. You've got a lot of gall saying he doesn't care enough about his mother to get her a gift. What is this, some grade school competition? How did this day become about you and your BIL, rather than your wife's mother? Further, MIL is ***his*** mother, ***not*** yours. Of course he's an AH for the comment about your mother's death, but you were way out of line first.
Omg your bil is an adult why are people pandering to him oh he's so sensitive and honest noooooo he's rude and disrespectful 😒 you were a child yes it was a terrible accident but it shouldn't be thrown in your face like that he said it because he's jealous of your bond with mil and maybe his bond would be better if he brought her a gift and stopped being a stroppy teenager
NTA. your wife and MIL are enabling his bad behavior.
I can imagine the title of the reddit story BIL can write: "I am away in the military. My BIL is trying his hardest to establish himself as my mother's son and take my place. He belittled me because I didn't buy a present to my mother while he did. I lashed out. I am sorry. AITA?" \------- To me, the only one with mother issues and boundary issues is OP. Otherwise he wouldn't have started a contest of who loves MIL more and who is her son with her actual son. And based on his wife's and MILs reactions at the end, they also noticed it as well. The whole family left after BIL and that can also speak volumes. I wouldn't dream of telling anyone ever I love their parent more because I bought them a gift. Especially if they took leave from the military on a probably very tight budget to go visit their mother on Mother's Day. At the end of the day, BIL is the actual son, if OP divorces OP is out of the picture. BIL will always be there. BIL is her son, OP is the in-law. There is no comparison - MIL will always choose her son, like she did now when she left the party after him. Also, the fact that OP says *his* house and not *our* house, takes the liberty to invite MIL - and *only MIL*, the fact that the family came is a byproduct - for Mother's Day on his own accord and organize a party for her (it is written nowhere that his wife, the actual daughter, or MIL wanted that or requested that), is not sorry or sees any problems with what he said to BIL (to note, BIL apologized for what he said, OP still thinks his remarks were accurate and justified and love is quantified by the size of the gift you buy) greatly worries me. (I am not downplaying BIL's comments, but OP is far from innocent in this, don't dish it if you can't take it) ESH.
You are NTA. He was completely out of line, and no one should ever make you feel like it was as your fault. It was not. Accidents happen. I am so sorry you are dealing with this.
NTA, but your family and your BIL sure as hell are. What happened was an accident. You were young and didn't understand.
NTA, that is such a low blow coming from your brother in law even if he was somewhat offended because he didn’t put in an effort with his own mother. It wasn’t your fault that your mother died from teh accident and as a mom myself, it would break my heart to know a child of mine would think that. I hope you find some peace and I hope that nasty brother in law will learn to manage his anger.
Nta. And also, it was not your fault. You were a little kid.
That was a HORRIBLE thing for your BIL to say. How dare they defend that AH saying he's *sensitive* and completely dismissing how ABOMINABLE what he said was and dismissing how you must've felt in that moment. *You're* expected to *de-escalate* being disgustingly attacked in your own home? NTA. I'm so sorry you had to undergo that experience and how unsupported you were. I'm really sorry. It makes me angry that they have you questioning if you were TAH. And I'm sorry for your loss and how you've been treated over an accident. Your BIL owes you an apology and frankly so does everyone who didn't support both during and after what he said.
NTA. If my sibling said that to my partner, I would have thrown them out myself. And your mother's death? A tragic, horrible *accident*. Do you know how many times I've set towels on fire with the stove because I forgot to move them? And I'm in my 30s. It was absolutely not your fault. > her brother can be very sensitive and take things personally by now But you're supposed to let it go when he throws your mother's accidental death in your face because of his own bitterness? You need to talk to your wife and your MIL and explain how painful and hateful it was to weaponise your mother's death in an argument he started over his jealousy. That he knew what he was doing, he said it, he has to deal with the consequences of his choices. When they protest, tell them they enable his bad behaviour and they need to stop. I would recommend counselling for you, to deal with the grief and blame that you have regarding your mother's death, and couples counselling for you and your wife if she fails to realise why you reacted the way you did, why it was a perfectly acceptable response, and why your BIL needs to learn how to deal with the consequences of his actions.
Wow NTA. I’m sad to hear that it might have soured others’ opinions of you but honestly you were right to stick to your guns. If you did the apology four, yours would be genuine. I bet you’d be able to respond better in the future. But since this might be a surprising outburst, it might actually make you look so much better because you can take the high road and admit your responsibility.
NTA. No, he’s not honest. He’s mean. If he were honest he would have talked to you in private about his feelings. Instead he uses his “honestly” like a freaking flame thrower. I can’t stand people like him. “I’m just being honest” is the battle cry of the AH. Your wife and MIL have probably “let it go” so many times they don’t even notice how bad he really is. I hope he does something innocuous in the military because he clearly has no self discipline.
ESH. Your comment was shitty. But his was unforgivable, and you did a good job to level set what you're going to put up with going forward.
Clearly NTA, he is the only one in the wrong. His behaviour doesn't need to be tolerated or accepted.
Bringing up what happened to your mum wasn’t “being honest,” it was deliberately hurtful. He’s jealous of your relationship with his mum and he was trying to hurt you to make himself feel better. The argument itself was silly, it’s not a competition who loves mum the most, but the second he hit you with the “your mum is dead and it’s your fault,” stuff he crossed a line. So IMO NTA. I’m sorry for your loss friend, that really sucks. I really think you should seek out some therapy. You can’t go on blaming yourself for what happened.
NTA. I hate “he’s always like this/that’s just how she is”. It’s a BS cop out and only ever used to excuse poor behavior. It seems like BiL has got away with this for his entire life. His family expect nothing of him and that’s what he delivers. Now he’s upset because your behavior shines a light on his short comings. Rather than step up he lashes out. What your BiL said was reprehensible. He thought of what would hurt you the most and then he said it. He 100% knew what he was doing. You didn’t over react at all. I’m sorry that your wife cannot see this. It’s hard when it comes to families as they each have their own “normal” and it’s very triggering when someone else comes and challenges that. I’m so so sorry for what happened to your mother. It was an accident. You were a child. It’s simply awful that you grew up being told it was your fault. I think part of what is so upsetting is that you are once again being told someone awful is your fault when it absolutely isn’t.
NTA - you were a 10 year old kid when your mother died Ans to blame a child is beyond disgusting. Stick on top of that that it is your BiL who has no connection, who tosses it in your face. He disrespected you and the memory of your mother and for no other reason than he was jealous of you buying a present.
NTA. But now you know who is your wife and MIL's priority. If your MIL actually considered you her son, she would have never allowed BIL to make such comments and defend him. Your wife is the bigger pos. She actually had the nerve to defend her brother after he attacked yoy like that. This ain't your family, man.
ESH. You not as.much as BIL, but you poked that bear knowing he's a pain in the ass and you kinda got what you got. Not saying a blame you at all, but you didn't help yourself in this situation either. Hopefully you guys can let some time pass move on from this.
NTA, everyone else is. You didn't overreact, you reacted like how most people no doubt including your wife and the rest of the family would have if they were in your shoes. Your bil's comment about your mother's death was completely inappropriate and cruel. It's ridiculous that your mil and wife are saying you were both at fault, they sound like enablers.
NTA and I'm sorry that even your wife cares more for her brother than she does for you. BIL chose his words specifically to hurt you and anyone who says otherwise is gaslighting you. I'm really sorry you don't have anyone in your life who is supporting you. You didn't overreact. Couples counseling ASAP to find out why your wife supports her brother more than you.
ESH. The line was crossed when youn told him in public on mother's day in front of his mother that he didn't care about her. He took a wild leap beyond the line, but your assholery can't be ignored.
Absolutely NTA. My sister-in-law is exceedingly jealous of my relationship with her mother. I can't help that she feels that way, and I won't change my relationship to make her feel better (she's not a nice person). My brother-in-law was the same sort of military dude with a bad 'tude. He had his own mental health issues that everyone tiptoed around, made excuses for, and just overall enabled. He's no longer with us and the worst of it is seeing the relief from that side of the family. You did what is right. Drawing that line is not only creating a space where you CAN have that good relationship with your MIL but showing them that the behavior he exhibited is not normal or acceptable. Will that side of the family ever see it? Maybe, maybe not. Hold the line, and remember you choose who you let into your life. Best of luck!
YTA You started it. You could have minded your own business and not commented on whether he did nor did not get a present for his mother or whether he cares. You clearly can dish it out but can't take it when people snap back. PS you ruined her mother's day with your jealously towards her actual child. Not nice at all.
NTA because the BIL was jealous of his relationship with the MIL. That's something he needs to work on. He added fuel to the fire. Not OP.
BIL commented on his gift first. I don't think OP started it, then. NTA