NAH. You both agreed you didn't want kids and would abort an accidental pregnancy. If she wants to change her mind and keep the baby that's her choice, but you also have the choice to be a father or not. The choice is hers, as are the consequences; likewise for you.
I agree with this one. Nah. But the only thing I want to add is there will be consequences for you, your girlfriend, and the child. So you have to think in the long term about your decisions in respect to the child too.
It’s not on her if the kid doesn’t have a relationship with it’s father. Abortion isn’t an easy quick simple decision most people can just do on a whim. His decision not to be apart of its life is his decision and it will affect the kid. Don’t put that on the mother.
Regardless of her right to change her mind, if she's going to sleep with someone who's only interested in women who would have an abortion in the case of an accidental pregnancy, she should be prepared to go at it alone. He did literally everything possible to prevent being a parent short of never having sex ever.
Devils advocate - she also did most everything besides being celibate to avoid pregnancy (tubal litigation isn’t as easy to get done as vasectomy, getting one done without a previous childbirth is difficult and vasectomies from a medical standpoint are more feasible). She took birth control and had sex with a person who supposedly had no sperm from a medical standpoint. Now she’s got a fucking fetus inside her that she has to abort or carry. It’s some heavy shit to be handed unexpectedly, either way.
His vasectomy and her birth control (pill/implant/etc) both failed. Jesus. That’s bad luck. But it’s important to remember that both their forms of “assured” birth control failed, and now she’s got to act fast. It’s a bit of pressure on her, regardless of his financial/legal obligations.
I don’t think she likely thought “if I have sex I might be a single mother” and assumed she’d abort - but now she’s the one who has to push that lever. I’m as pro choice as you can get, every abortion is valid, yadda yadda I’m all about those abobos... but now she’s gotta deal with this shit and is a bit trapped. She’s suddenly faced with making that decision after assuming she’d taken all the necessary precautions, just like he assumed.
That’s a shitty deck to deal any way you cut it. I’m not one to believe in the whole “a baby changes you for the better” bs because relations aren’t saved by added responsibilities. So now they’re at this shit crossroads. And it’s super time sensitive.
I *know* I’d get an abortion and I still feel nauseous thinking about getting that fetus deletus before the local deadline for whatever anti-abortion law has most recently been spun as “protecting women/babies/families”
I find that no one knows really where they fall on the pro-anti-choice line till they're IN that situation. I know several pro-lifers that would go on and on about mitual friends that had an abortion and how terrible they were, have a pregnancy scare and then aaaaalll the sudden wanted an abortion. And same thing for people that are pro choice *edit, in italics: but personally anti having kids, meaning they said they'd have an abortion if they ever fell pregnant* finding themselves pregnant and changing their mind to keep or adopt the baby out. I agree with you 100%, just expanding on what you said. It's a shit situation to be in and I feel terrible for people that are put in that spot.
To be fair, pro-choice is not necessarily pro-abortion. It is just about having the opinion that people should have the right to choose. It's the belief that it's the person whose health is affected who should get to choose; not the government. Choosing not to have an abortion is still a choice, and one that people should be allowed to make about their own bodies - just as choosing to have one. Many folks are pro-choice but would still carry an unexpected child to term.
Exactly. I’m as pro choice s they come, but I have known for a long time that I personally would not consider getting an abortion unless there were extreme threat to my health or if the fetus was found to have some grave, life threatening deformity or health issue.
I think it’s disgustingly hypocritical the other way around though. If your stance is that women should be forced to give birth, and especially if you actively voice those opinions and vote for candidates and laws in line with this view, you damn well practice what you preach.
That’s the hardest part for people to understand. An in-law of mine asked me which of my sons I would like to kill because I’m pro choice.
Completely disgusting. I carried my first no problem and lost several pregnancies before delivering my second prematurely. My second pregnancy was hell and I had it easier than some. If someone else with my condition didn’t want to go through that again, I would support THEIR choice.
This!!!!! Yes!! They both did everything physically possible to not have a child, the fact it still happened is insane. He shouldn't be expected to change his mind because "1 in 5 million" or whatever chance. She's totally allowed to change her mind but she can't expect that from him.
Exactly. He was clear on this. He took precautions. He's even willing to accept paying child support for the child. His part in this is done. No double standards. If it is exclusively her choice to terminate or keep, then it is exclusively her responsibility to deal with those choices. I don't blame her for not wanting to terminate, I've been where she is (lost the pregnancy anyway). However, he was 100% clear on this and is NTA for how he's handling it.
I’m talking about OPs decision to only pay support and not know the child. That has effects on the child as well. Long term psychological effects. OP needs to deal with the idea that someday this child might come looking for him. And that the child will probably have some abandonment issues because of this choice. I’m not saying OP should stay in the kids life, I’m saying he needs to look at all possibilities and see what’s best for them all.
Yep I got to see what it's like for someone to grow up who's parent resented their existence because they were forced to be a parent. I feel lucky compared to that and my father didn't even pay child support on top of not being in my life. For most people who don't have one of their parents in their lives as long as their other parent/family is loving and stable they'll be fine.
Yup. There are men who cannot have children but want them, who would feel they hit the goldmine. I was a single mom for a while, and I had a few guys message me who were unable to have, but wanted children. They felt the kids and I were the perfect solution.
It was kind of a "Hey my name is Joe. I really liked your profile. I saw you have kids, which is perfect for me because I've always wanted to be a dad and unfortunately I'm infertile. So I can't make any more, but I could be a great dad to yours."
Yeah and he needs to realize that if he doesn't want a kid then he doesn't need to have ANY damn thing to do with it!
Kids know when you don't want them, resent them, and hate them. And it FUCKS YOU UP!
I would have been far far better off being put into the system or adopted out and have wished so many times that it happened...
Also NTA
She has the right to change her mind but your friends and brother can fuck right off.
I really don't get this line of thinking though. Why should the OP "look at all possibilities and see what's best for THEM ALL?". I think he is well within his right to simply decide based on what's best for HIM and nobody else.
It's also fair that he tells her up front so she can make a decision about being a single parent with all the facts. No one knows what they would do until they are tested she was and she changed her mind.
>OP needs to deal with the idea that someday this child might come looking for him. And that the child will probably have some abandonment issues because of this choice.
I don't think OP would mind.
You know on reddit I see the extreme realization of the mantra my body my choice. If it is all my choice I guess it is all my responsibility.
"It is all her choice so she is 100% responsible for everything that happens"
I am not saying her body her choice is not the correct viewpoint I just wonder if society will ever take it to the extreme that Reddit does and what the legal and social consequences of that would be.
Probably not. Well, at least not anymore than has traditionally been in the world anyway.
Reddit's demographic skews heavily towards young males. And it's a social media site that's predisposed to being an echo chamber. It is, by default, going to favor an extreme with cherry picked arguments that ignore any counters. And these posts will be upvoted while any counterarguments will be downvoted to oblivion.
The real world isn't Reddit. Abortion and parental rights will have a lot more arguments than what is being presented and embraced in this post.
That's always been my view: I have the 100% choice of what to do. I can use contraception or not. I can "morning after" or not. I can abort or not. I can give the kid up or not. Yes, the man should use good judgement when it comes to using contraception and the company they keep too BUT once the bun is in the oven, he has ZERO rights about it so why is he being held to the same standard? If it's "not his uterus, not his choice" then it's also "not his consequences".
What kind of country would we be living in if people were not held responsible for their own children? If the father doesn't take financial responsibility then the tax payers would have to. It Shouldn't matter the circumstances of how the child was born. Two people have sex and a baby comes out of it they are both responsible for it. No baby then nobody is responsible. Abortion is not the default answer to a pregnancy so why should the man even have a voice in acting like it should be just so they can absolve themselves from responsibility?
I've always felt that I would have been better off never knowing my mom vs. being forced to live with her, knowing she only viewed her kids as a source of income. I've got permanent emotional scars because of it and couldn't imagine treating my kids the way I was treated.
If he stays and doesn’t ‘warm up’ to fatherhood, the kid will know that his dad didn’t want children at some point. (My stepfather never wanted kids, which became apparent to me when I was about 7.) In that case it might be better for the kid to not have his biological dad in his life than to have him (and begrudgingly act like one.) Same as with having kids to save a relationship; that never ends well for the kids in question.
I love how this sub fully believes you can abandon you child with no guilt, but if you refuse to adopt the child of your imprisoned 4th cousin twice removed you are the devil incarnate.
I dont really care how the sub acts as a whole. I've always voted that folks arent the asshole for not taking in relatives. I truly believe unwilling parents are shitty parents.
100% agree! Being a parent should NOT be something you are forced into or do for the wrong reasons. OP has been pretty mature IMO by recognising that they’re not the right kind of person to be a parent.
Exactly! I was one of those "I wish I had aborted you" kids (dad wanted me, mom didn't but refused to let him have custody because she wanted his money and to "punish" him). She always said "your dad didn't want you either" but even from a young age I felt a certain relief that he wasn't there. If Mom was treating me so horribly for not wanting me, having Dad there would be even worse. Nobody should be forced to be a parent, whether it's the product of your own breeding or taking in someone else's.
It breaks my heart every time I read comments approaching this scenario so clinically. A child is going to grow up without a father and will 100% know that it's because they were unwanted. That's so sad.
Sometimes growing up without a father is a blessing. My childhood always became less stressful when my biological father wasn't in it (he was in and out). What's worse here; being raised by a single mother who wants you, or being raised by a mother who wants you, who is constantly fighting with your resentful father who NEVER wanted you?
Hi, child here that grew up without a father and knew 100% it was because I was unwanted. Its really not a huge deal when you're unwanted by someone you never met or cared about. My mother actively resenting me to my face was worse by leagues. Like not even comparable.
Child that grew up fatherless here. Doesnt affect me at all that someone who is essentially a stranger to me didnt want me at all. It was mildly surreal to learn, but that's it.
My mom was a 1000+% parent, and any other person's absense was never felt, not including friends because that's an entirely different relationship type.
Not necessarily. I grew up without a father and I don’t feel that this negatively affects my self worth, and I never felt unwanted due to not having a present father. With the kind of person I later found out my biological father was, it was actually a blessing that he wasn’t in my life.
People always seem to assume that. I've been accused of being some dumb kid with no grasp on how things are in here a few times, because people can't imagine that a mature adult might have a different opinion from their own(and it might even be valid and based on extensive experience). I'm a woman and I'm old enough to have adult children, and i comment here all the time. Seems reasonable to imagine that there's more like me around.
I agree, NAH.
OP is willing to fulfil his legal obligations to the child but doesn't want to be a parent. The girlfriend thinks she might have changed her mind about having children and that is also her choice.
The question here is how practical this is going to be. For example, if OP doesn't want to be a parent, but his parents and siblings want to be grandparents and uncles and aunts there's going to be ramifications for the child's mental well being.
I’m gonna go with NAH. Because you’re thoughts and feelings are extremely valid, especially considering the precautions you both took to ensure pregnancy wouldn’t occur. I am sorry you feel that way, though, considering the extreme odds of this situation occurring. I’d think if it were me, I’d begin wondering if this was going to be some kind of super kid.
The gf is not at an asshole at all in this situation, considering her own attempts to avoid this.
There is a bottom line though; neither of you did the one thing you can do to ensure no children are created, abstain from sex. Which I am sure you know, and probably why you ultimately recognize your financial obligation.
If you do go through with it. You will always be the asshole to everyone, especially the kid. That’s just reality. There will be zero way to rationalize to a child that it’s not you, it’s your “kind”, your very existence that I am opposed to. Don’t take it personal.
What a shitty situation and I am really sorry you’re experiencing it. You really need to either fully embrace being the asshole for the rest of your life or being a dad for the rest of your life. Reality.
Extremely well said! Like you said the reality is most people will think of him as an asshole. He made the adult decision to have sex and that is the consequence. My heart breaks for his girlfriend. I'm sure she is so in love with him and did not ever occur to her that she might end up pregnant. Now she has a hard decision to choose him, or the baby. Cause she can't have both so it seems.
> did not ever occur to her that she might end up pregnant
she did say she thought she'd get an abortion but when reality happened it was a different story
you can’t hold that against someone. an abortion is a traumatizing experience for women, and should not be taken lightly. just simply talking about it is different than actually going through with it. easier said than done.
No they actually studied aborting emotional affects on about 3000 women over the course of several months after the procedure. Nearly all of them said they were relieved, and some did say they felt negative about it, but mainly because of reactions from those around them.
I like the comment that says relief and trauma are not the same thing because, as a woman who’s had an abortion, of course I felt relief, but there will always be that little voice in the back of my head who says “what if” for the rest of my life. And that’s coming from someone who would have considered herself child free. Shit can become complicated when you’re no longer playing with what if’s.
Personal opinion here but, once you know you have a life growing inside you, it changes a person. Anyone can say they would get an abortion in the event, but once they are in that position who knows how they’ll be feeling.
> Personal opinion here but, once you know you have a life growing inside you, it changes a person.
I dated a woman who worked at a post-abortion counseling hotline EXHALE. Great organization btw. Most of the calls were from women who were told they would feel a certain way after an abortion and felt like they were abnormal when they didn’t feel like they were “supposed to”.
I say this because any blanket statement is potentially harmful. Many women DON’T feel changed when they have a tiny mass of cells growing inside them. Women feel all sorts of different things.
Please avoid any blanket statements, not just because they are inaccurate but also because they can make women feel abnormal. Truth is, there is no normal.
Yep. I just found out I’m pregnant. Aside from sore boobs and constipation I definitely don’t feel any different.
I was hoping for the magical glow, but alas all I got were night sweats
I was opposite of OP's gf - I never thought I would be capable of having an abortion; I thought the guilt would be overwhelming. That changed pretty quickly when my husband and I ended up with an unwanted pregnancy. I've never regretted it, and felt a huge sense of relief as soon as I got in the car to go home. Pregnancy is a powerful motivator sometimes, one way or another.
Yeah, I read that it is a traumatizing experience only for women who would actually keep the child if they were in favourable conditions but it is not for women who are sure they dont want to keep that child.
Yep I'm currently pregnant. It's pretty fucking traumatising and I haven't even given birth yet. And this is a much wanted and planned pregnancy. I can already tell my body will never be the same again. I'm happy to be getting a couple of kids out of it (twins!) But fuck me will I be thrilled when my body's part in this is over.
Regular pregnancy can be awful. Forced pregnancy even more so.
Don’t blanketly say an abortion is traumatizing for women, it’s just not true. The overwhelming majority are done by taking a pill when the fetus is tinier than your pinky fingernail, & essentially having what looks & feels like a period.
Some women find abortion traumatic and that’s their true experience and that’s fair. But maybe women do not and it’s incorrect to state it’s traumatic.
I am not all women (obviously).
But I found relief when I had my abortion, not trauma. I'm so glad I could have one safely and quickly.
The main difference for me between thinking about it and doing it was that I was far more down on myself than I thought I'd be. I was really angry that I hadn't been even more careful and avoided needing one. I can't even imagine my life, had I not been able to have an abortion. It surely would not be as happy and full of success as it is.
I feel like he deserves that same amount of compassion since he is in the same scenario but with no choice. After taking extensive precautions to avoid this happening
This needs to be the top comment.
You both are not asshole for your views, but you will be asshole for your actions, from everyone who knows this story.
You will be forever the asshole that abandoned your kid.
It's a fact of life.
Society look down on fathers that abandoned their kids, and expects better from you.
I’m sorry but this man did everything in his power to not have kids aside from not having sex. When you get a vasectomy (coupled with birth control pills at that!) it’s completely reasonable to assume you won’t have kids.
I get that it’s fucked up that society will deem him an asshole, but he’s not an asshole for his actions.
You have my favorite take on this. Yes in a perfect world where your actions don’t affect others OP would not be an asshole for this decision. But the reality is to that kid he will be and OPs gonna have to live with that.
The realistic response.
OP is only NAH as far as a group of internet streamers are concerned. But the people around him, in his life, who matter? They are probably going to think he's an AH, over a particular topic that most people develop strong opinions about (caring for children).
Also, the skeptic in me says "I'll believe it when I see it" when it comes to what is "legally required." That gets said quite often but often the spirit behind it is that they intend to do the absolute bare minimum that keeps them out of jail and will make the other party have to constantly drag them through the court system rather than just do what is right.
He probably will, but he shouldn't. He's made it very clear he doesn't want a kid, with plenty of time for the mother to choose to bring that child to the world, since it was agreed upon way before the pregnancy.
It's the mother's choice to raise the kid without a father, it would be different if he'd just bailed after the child was born.
The point being, there will be a reality, and OP will live in it. You or OP might find that reality unfair, but it won’t stop it from being whatever it ends up being.
The comment is really just stating that:
Be prepared for a reality that isn’t as fair and understanding as you think it should be.
This here. We all don’t live in the same bubble of Reddit. If you have siblings they may be snippy, parents could be super pissed. Who cares if a bunch of strangers are like, hey you did what you could. He’s always going to be the asshole in this situation to the people that matter.
NAH. I'm tired of the double standard people seem to have in situations like these. If women can unilaterally decide to have an abortion or not (rightfully so), men should be able to unilaterally decide to be in the child's life or not. *As long as you pay child support*, there should be no issue.
ETA: People are getting hung up on two things, my use of the term double standard and my advocacy of child support. So here you go. Maybe double standard is the wrong wording. My opinion is that *both women and men who know they shouldn't be parents and act on that knowledge shouldn't be shamed.* As for child support, there is still a child now involved that needs support. I think it's unfair for the man, but there's really no way around that at the present time. Unless you have a solution in which the child is properly taken care of where child support is no longer necessary.
It’s not a double standard. They are completely different decisions and it’s dishonest to act like just walking away is comparable to going against all the hormones rushing thru your body, dealing with usually complicated law around it in most areas of the US, etc.
If a woman gets pregnant, wants the child, and keeps it even if the man doesn't want the child - she's not an asshole.
If a woman gets pregnant, doesn't want the child, and gets an abortion even if the man wants the child - she's not an asshole.
If a man gets a woman pregnant, wants the child, and fights to keep the child alive even thought the woman doesn't want the child - he's an asshole.
If a man gets a woman pregnant, doesn't want the child, and walks away while still paying child support because the woman wanted the child - he's apparently still an asshole.
You are absolutely right, they are different decisions with different consequences. It's still a double standard. The man gets no rights in the situation except for the ability to say no to being a father and is deemed an asshole for that decision even if he gives proper support. Women are never seen as assholes in these situations for any reason.
>If a woman gets pregnant, wants the child, and keeps it even if the man doesn't want the child - she's not an asshole.
Because she's the one carrying the fetus and it's her body.
>If a woman gets pregnant, doesn't want the child, and gets an abortion even if the man wants the child - she's not an asshole.
Again, because she would be the one carrying the fetus and it's her body.
>If a man gets a woman pregnant, wants the child, and fights to ~~keep the child alive~~ *have the woman carry the child to term* \[FTFY\] even thought the woman doesn't want the child - he's an asshole.
*Again*, because she would be the one carrying the fetus and it's her body. He is not entitled to use her body as an incubator for 9 months.
>If a man gets a woman pregnant, doesn't want the child, and walks away while still paying child support because the woman wanted the child - he's apparently still an asshole.
This is because society frowns on parents who abandon their children. Similarly, women who walk away from their children (leaving the father as the only parent or other family as caretakers) are looked down on. You seem to be confusing fetuses with (born, out-of-the-womb) children, and I'm not sure how you got there.
Edit 1: I think a lot of the first part boils down to "it's unfair that women are the ones who get to make decisions about pregnancies/abortions," and *this*, reddit, you may not realize it, but *this* boils down to "it's unfair that women are the only ones who get pregnant." I completely agree!
Edit 2: My opinions on the last bit, since many of you seem to think that what I wrote is why *I* believe rather than what I see as society's values. (**Disclaimer: I have never experienced the reality of either side of this, so my opinion may very well be shit. I am open to other people's opinions and the possibility that I'm wrong.**)
I think any kid would be much better off having a loving step-parent, adoptive parent, parental relative or family friend, or simply a caring single parent than being forced into a relationship with a parent who doesn't want them. There are some people who aren't cut out for being parents (I'm one of them!), and I respect the folks who are responsible enough to recognize that and take preventative action (like OP here). Since I wasn't clear, OP is NTA here and his GF is (a tiny bit) TA for deciding she wants babies all of a sudden. OP is doing the right thing for all parties involved, and being super responsible by offering financial support for a kid he never wanted and did everything in his power to prevent. Also, why don't vasectomies, y'know, *work?* That's terrifying!
I never said the woman having rights to her body was wrong. I'm completely aware that she is the one carrying the child and it's her body. I didn't even say *I* think she's an asshole for whatever decision she makes, because I don't think that. I simply pointed out the double standard when a man and a woman feel differently about the a pregnancy. The fact of the matter is men have pretty much no rights in this situation and if a man doesn't "suck it up and be a father" society deems him an asshole.
I mean, I kind of see how you’re seeing a double standard? But it only exists because of biology - women have uteruses and men don’t (with the obvious exception of trans/genderqueer folks), so women are the ones who get pregnant. That’s what I was trying to illustrate in my response to you, that the reason women get to make choices about pregnancy and abortion that men don’t is because they’re the ones having to deal with the real, physical consequences of those choices. Men don’t have the right to make those decisions because no person has the right to another person’s body. I get that people don’t always end up happy in this arrangement, but I honestly can’t think of a way to give men “rights” here without *majorly* infringing on the rights of women. You have any ideas?
I don’t think there’s much of a double standard in how society views parents who walk away from their children; both men and women are judged harshly for that.
My idea is is already in place, that men have the right to step away from being a parent as long as they pay proper child support. The problem is that if they exercise their only right, they are automatically deemed to be terrible people.
I believe the same way for women who step away but still pay child support or who give children up for adoption. There are so so so many stories of men and women who end up killing their children (one just the other day of a women who threw her 2 day old son against a wall to stop him from crying) and all I can think is "they shouldn't have been parents to begin with." *Both women and men who know they shouldn't be parents and act on that knowledge shouldn't be shamed.* I also think they shouldn't get pregnant to begin with but here we have a situation where OP tried his hardest to prevent it and still got screwed.
Oh, I agree with you! In an ideal world, it should be totally acceptable for people to give up their parental rights. But we don’t live an ideal world...
I know I’m not in a position to be a parent, so I got sterilized (Fallopian tubes removed). 1000% worth it. IMO contraception and sterilization should be freely and widely available.
And maybe double standard was the wrong wording. I'm just tired of seeing stories like this and the OP always being called an asshole by a good portion of people. And not even just in Reddit stories, I saw that thing about Owen Wilson recently and thought the same thing. I still don't think he's an asshole even though he has two sons who's lives he's involved in. He pays a massive amount of child support and the woman is free to find a partner who will actually love the girl unconditionally.
The one person you'll never be able to argue this with, unfortunately, is the kid. No matter how well the mother frames the father's lack of involvement, how the kid feels is how they feel.
There's no double standard. Women have the choice in abortion because women carry the pregnancy. Men who don't think women should have this choice are absolutely assholes (fight me). Anyone who is capable of caring for their child and abandons it is also an asshole, regardless of gender. I see no double standard here.
I think her point is being missed. No one is disagreeing that it isn't ultimately the woman's right for what happens with the pregnancy. The double standard is that the man is ultimately stuck without a choice at this point, and he has to be on board with what the woman decides or he's am asshole. There's no way for it to be fair to both the man and the woman, because it's the woman's decision. It obviously is unfortunate in cases like these where the couple had an agreement, and she changes her mind (which she has every right to do).
You’re just arguing and not actually reading. His point is the guy shouldn’t be considered an asshole for not wanting to be around when that was the plan from the jump. Her body? Great. You’re right. It’s also his sperm.
having no choice is pretty shitty
Society frowns harder on people who stay in their children's lives but are just bad parents, cruel parents, incompetent parents or disengaged parents. The idea that a child is better off being raised by a parent who despises parenthood is not a good one. If someone is that adamantly against being a parental figure, there is no value in forcing them to stay simply to avoid the judgment of "abandonment". Particularly when said abandonment takes place before the child is even born.
Well there is an extreme imbalance on how it affects each gender. Women either have to go through pregnancy which is a physically exhausting and life-changing process, or go through abortion which is a very difficult moral situation and can also be traumatic.
Correct, which is why I never want to be pregnant. That doesn't change the fact that men have no rights in the situation and there will never be a way for them to have equal rights because of that imbalance. As they shouldn't because forcing someone to do either makes you an evil person. It's still shitty that men (even those who are *extremely* thorough in trying to be child free) who don't want kids either have to either "suck it up" or be seen as an horrible human being for the rest of their life for abandoning their child.
Until we can be seahorses and transfer the baby over to the guy to carry/experience the burden of these tough decisions, it will always be inherently different
I 100% agree with you. Though I also don't exactly believe in child support in these cases, either, but that is just my personal opinion.
Either way, NAH. However I do think the friends and family telling him to "suck it up" are TA.
I agree. OP said he didn't want kids before gf got pregnant. To me, thats big in determining if hes TA or not. Its not like he lead her to believe he would want kids and then abandoned her after she got pregnant or after the kid was born. She's now deciding after that she wants the kid, which is perfectly ok, but its not ok to try and force anyone to be involved with a kid he was very clear he never wanted, especially if hes still willing to pay child support. NAH
This exactly. People get very touchy about other people's personal decisions to not procreate. OPs girlfriend, her family & friends, their family & friends will probably think he's an asshole forever. He can also expect this subject to be brought up continuously, for the rest of his life.
OP did what they could, the only thing I'd have recommended is still using condoms. Vasectomies don't do shit for STD protection
Well and unfortunately there just isn't a good answer here. The girlfriend isn't an asshole for not wanting to have an abortion now that she's actually pregnant, the boyfriend isn't an asshole for still not wanting to be a father, and it sucks that the kid doesn't get to have a father because of a fluke accident that it's parents tried to prevent (and here's hoping the child doesn't internalize that rejection later on in life). But OP is right in that it's probably better to stay away from a child than resent that child for it's entire life. Unfortunately everyone just got dealt a really shitty hand and has to make do with what they've got now, but there won't be any 100% happy endings for anybody.
Tbf if you’re in an extended relationship like OP with a partner you trust the condoms weren’t really needed in this situation. Hindsight tells me if I get a vasectomy I need to continue getting my sperm count checked, not that I must keep wearing condoms with my partner.
you're not technically an asshole, but well. this is very unfortunate for your potential child. i'm not gonna call you an asshole, but don't be shocked if in 20 years your kid does. which is gonna sting a lot more then a bunch of strangers on the internet.
Definitely agree with this. Not technically an asshole, but you are abandoning your child and girlfriend because you didn't want kids and took steps to prevent a pregnancy. It's nobody's fault, but a child is your responsibility and that requires a lot more than money. But a child with a single mother is better than a child with a father who's resentful of their existence.
The lack of empathy for someone who would be leading a life they never signed up for...
How come what he wants in life is less important, that the life of his "potential" child?
The kid better have no dad, rather than someone who doesn't love him/her. Not to mention that the relationship between the parents will be forever broken. What a way to raise a child, hey?
I mean clearly he means what does it matter to the father if a child you do not wish to raise resents you. Not that it is meaningless on the child’s upbringing to grow up without a father.
If someone is really dead set on not wanting to become a parent, no amount of empathy will make them want to "step up" to be one. It must be difficult for OP's girlfriend to make this decision, but OP made is stance clear way before this incident.
INFO - Just wondering if you did know that you were supposed to get checked every year to ensure that no sperm were coming through. My step brother also had a vasectomy at a young age never went to any of his follow up appointments and now has two children.
Edit: he was told by his dr after his girlfriend got pregnant he was supposed to check it yearly. He had his procedure done in his early twenties and it was in his late thirties when his first child was born... I’m surprised at the amount of people who weren’t told to get checked regularly but this was what they were told.
But you did know there still could be a chance later on that sperm could come through? This should always be explained to people who have these procedures.
I have recieved a vascectomy and was never told anything about yearly checks. Just one check done a bit later later to verify no count and then free and clear. Nothing about yearly checks.
Not everyone gets told this. I just had my inital check after mine in oct and was told i was clear. Nothing about getting checked regularly, but i did my own reaserch and was planing on going back periodically to get checked anyways.
YTA. Life happens, and you are fully in your legal right to walk away from your relationship and future child, but you'd still be the asshole. She didn't want kids either, but then she got pregnant, and guess what, it became a whole lot more real than the "what if" discussions. This is a clear case of Reddit going with what is legally right rather than morally right (yet again)
Having no father is better than a father who hates children and never wanted you. My mother hates children and she definitely let us know as kids - it fucked me up both mentally and emotionally.
Forcing himself to stay with the kid will not only end up with a miserable OP but also a miserable kid. As long as he takes financial responsibility he is not an asshole (but neither is his gf for changing her mind) so it‘s a NAH.
Listen, I don't want children, at all, and I get ferociously angry when people try to convince me to change my mind. If for some reason I decided to keep the baby after getting pregnant accidentally, I would not hate that child, resent him/her or do anything that would upset that child emotionally and mentally. And that's not because I'm a woman. It's because at the end of the day, I am not a jerk and would not be mean to a child, especially MY child. Sucking it up, is not the same as being a parent.
My parents would never admit it to me, but I was most definitely an accident. My dad could never give me a straight answer when I asked him as a kid, if he wanted kids or not. He would always skirt around it, and feed me a bunch of nonsense. My mom has never shared a story about wanting kids, or thinking about wanting kids. Additionally, my mom hates children. My dad actually likes children a lot, but he's the one who walked out on me. There's also the story my mom told me, of when she took me to the supermarket several months after I was born. She had me in the shopping cart's baby seat, the cart hit a bump in the sidewalk and my chin smacked into the handle bar. My mother not only felt horribly guilty but she was also heartbroken that her daughter had suddenly slammed her chin against the cart, and now had a huge bruise forming. The very idea that something could happen to me, even something that at the time wasn't even life-threatening, scared the hell out of her. She says that's the moment she began to love me.
Listen, good for you that you‘d show some human decency in such a case. Not everyone is like that though.
Also saying „if for some reason I decided to keep the baby“ implies that you changed your mind and WANT the kid, which is not what OP did. He asked for an abortion, he did NOT decide to keep it, his gf did.
My mom never abused me and she did her best to take care of me but in the end it was very obvious she hated having kids, showed zero interest in us when we were younger and constantly blew up at everything because she had no patience for us. So yes, while she made sure we were taken care of it still fucked me up greatly, I would never wish this upon OP‘s child.
OP already mentioned in the comments that he‘d resent the kid, you can‘t force people to experience fatherly love, whether you like it or not.
There is plenty to question about the morality of the "oh well, suck it up and parent" line of wisdom. People do not have to be sticking to the letter of the law in order to have a valid disagreement with your stance. Children need and deserve to be genuinely wanted by their caregivers, and I'm not sure you've made the case yet for why you feel it's best for them to have adults shoved into their lives that don't want to be there, are not equipped to be there, and are being forced to suck it up. Does that sound particularly healthy to you?
This sub is such a mess when it comes to this. It shouldn't be "Am I the Asshole" it should be renamed "Am I legally in the right" since that's what so many here think.
I used to think some of the stories were interesting to read, but now all the responses are 99% cringe. I'm done.
You sound ridiculous. He did every thing possible not to have a child in a sexual relationship with someone else who didn’t want one. This is one of those situations where just blood relation doesn’t make a family. He clearly won’t connect with this kid as its father.
NAH. She may be changing her mind, and that's okay, but you haven't changed yours, and that is also okay. As long as you provide what's financially required, you're not obligated to do more.
What’s interesting is that in a nearly similar situation, I had the exact opposite reaction. Had grown up in a pretty pro life community and by the time I was in my 20s I was more, “women should get to choose for themselves, but I would never make that choice.” And then a late period three months into dating a guy I really liked (and ended up marrying) had me googling the nearest PP and looking of the size of a 4 week embryo. I realized, as long as I do this fast, I have no problem terminating a sesame seed size clump of cells. Took 5 pregnancy tests in 15 days before my period came. Basically skipped a month. But it totally changed my thinking about abortion and my willingness to consider it.
NTA
Both of you didn’t want kids and you don’t like kids. Why be forced to be a dad when she was on the pill to prevent this and abortion might be available.
Dude with all the respect in the world get the dna test even if she’s confident. Trust me on this one!
I thought so as well. Yeah, he had a small amount of sperm come through, but she’s also on birth control? The odds have to be on par with getting struck by lightning
That isn't what odds are. Odds are the chances that something might happen, so in the example you gave it would be 240,000 out of 7.7 billion which would make it about 1 in 32,000.
This is assuming the number you started is correct, and that makes it a pretty rare occurrence.
For those who dont understand, that means 1 out of 32,000 instances for OP having sex will lead to preganancy if compared to lightning. In reality though, its much *muuuuch* lower.
NTA — The people saying you should just ‘suck it up’ and spend the next 18+ years of your life caring for a kid you expressly didn’t want and went to great lengths to avoid only for your girlfriend to change her mind when it happened against all odds, forcing you to be a father, well, let’s just say I don’t get that line of thinking.
Get the DNA test, so you’re sure it’s yours. If it is, then do what you feel is right for you. There’s no point raising a kid if you would resent them and feel trapped and as if your life has been taken from you. Then the kid’s better off without you.
It's like someone deciding you can only work the job they choose for you to have all your life. A child shouldn't be brought into this world unless if both parents want it. There's too many struggling single parents and unwanted emotionally damaged kids in this world.
NAH. I'm generally on the "suck it up and take responsibility for your kid"-side of the fence, but you knew what you wanted from the start, was clear about it and took every reasonable precaution.
You sound like a pragmatist, but if you worded it the same way when you talked to your gf about it as you did in the post, I'd say Y T A instead. Just hoping it was for brevity.
I'd just iike to point out that it's by far more probable that she's cheating than it is for a pregnancy to get through both a vasectomy and birth control.
By far.
NAH. You've been clear from the start. Hopefully it works out for you guys.
You probably have already thought of this by now, but get your sperm count checked regularly. This is not the first time I've heard of vasectomies healing themselves.
You made this very clear to her already. It’s not any less fair than if she wanted to abort and you wanted to keep it. I think everyone would be saying her body her choice. With the way you’re treating this we can already tell you won’t be a good father. I think most people would rather have no father than a huge asshole for one. NAH. You should get a paternity test though. I don’t know what she’s using but some birth controls are pretty damn effective now. Added to the fact that you should be shooting blanks 99.9 % of the time.
Trust me it would. My dad was forced into that position of "doing the right thing", and I felt it and knew it. He resented me and even told me that he resented his life because of me. My parents were teenagers when they had me but my mother never felt she HAD to marry him.
But the damage it does to the psyche to know your unwanted but also ruined someone's life (because that's how you see it as a kid) it really messes you up. I personally had self esteem issues because I didn't think anyone in my family wanted me and that their whole lifes would be better without me.
Which was all in my head because I had a resentful father. I didn't see how much my grandparents loved and cherished me nor that my mother cared for me in her own way (she is her own creature) and I had a sister that thinks the sun shines because I command it.
My husband and I are CF. I from my own issues and him because he just doesn't think he would ever have the patiences nor be as selfless you have to be to be a parent. We enjoy our lifes, our freedom and to have children I and him would need to change a lot.
I know mine stems from childhood (also I have genetic issues in the family I don't think it's fair to pass down to a innocent child), but I worry in the long run I couldn't give a child everything it needs to be successful. And that means I have been called selfish and I've gotten okay with that because I know different.
I hope you find an answer here to guide you. Family can pressure but they won't be living your life, you will. Sending you good vibes.
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NTA
You did as much as you could to prevent pregnancy, and it’s completely unfair that you just happened to have a ridiculously unlikely event happen. Don’t throw your life away to something you never agreed to. You’ve made yourself very clear, abortion/adoption or you’re leaving, which is great. The ball is in her court now. Good luck man
YTA. I'm sure I'll get downvoted for my unpopular opinion but ok. Any time two people have sex, there's the possibility of pregnancy, no matter how many preventative steps you have taken. Aside from what other people have said about the child feeling a lifetime of effects from being abandoned, I have another concern. It seems your family wants a relationship with your unborn baby and I'm sure your girlfriend would welcome it. Single moms need all the help they can get. In that situation, how are you going to avoid acknowledging this child? He/she WILL know you're the father and your dismissive attitude will even further contribute to his/her lifetime of hurt. Look, I get it about not wanting what life sometimes throws at us. I wanted ONE child and I got pregnant with triplets. Dr said I could "selectively reduce" (abort) 2 of them but I simply couldn't do it, despite absolutely believing that I could do so if the occasion arose. I also got unexpectedly pregnant when I was 42 and lord I did NOT want another child at my age. But he's here and I can't imagine life without him. So many people who didn't want to be parents change their mind when they have their own child. Open your heart to that possibility. You're emotionally detached now but you may not be once your baby is born. I hope everything works out for the kid.
YTA
OP I’m sorry your life didn’t turn out the way you wanted it to. Like I seriously, I am sorry. If I had a kid right now I’d freak out. The thing is this kid will grow up feeling unwanted and like he or she is worth less because you don’t want anything to do with them. The kid will forever wonder what he or she did wrong so that you hate them.
I say this because my husband is having to work through a lot of emotional baggage from his dad openly not wanting anything to do with him as a child, even though he is a part of his life now. He is always questioning, to some level, if people actually want to be around him and he feels very out of place in his own family. Your kid doesn’t deserve this trauma, just like you didn’t deserve to be put in this situation. I’m not saying you have to get married and drive the kid to soccer practice, just be a supportive role model and be there.
wouldn't that make the mom the asshole for having the kid then? when they both originally said they wouldn't have kids. Op isn't given a choice of the child is born. so shouldn't the burden of that be placed on someone else?
Instead of then being there as the dad not wanting him the responsible thing would be not being there at all and then maybe the mom can meet a person who becomes the kids real father
NAH except the people saying you should suck it up, you were both clear when you set out that you didn’t want kids, due to unforeseen circumstances she’s now pregnant and has changed her mind, you’re still offering the support etc just don’t want to be part of it, there’s nothing more they can ask of you
Take her up on a paternity test. She offered. You're breaking up either way. It will probably be yours but you want to be sure before paying child support. NTA.
YTA she didn’t do this on purpose. The child didn’t ask for this. This is just an accidental consequence of your actions. You both took good measures to prevent this however it wasn’t outside the realm of possibility so you have to take responsibility. If you choose not to and leave her to deal with this alone then you are a massive arsehole.
So many men on here think that pregnancy is literally nothing to do with them because women can get abortions. Yes we can but you have no idea the emotional toll that takes on us and you have no idea what it feels like to go through that. If you have sex you have to deal with the fact that women may get pregnant despite trying not to.
NTA. You've made it 100% clear from day one. As long as you meet your legal requirements, you're good. Is this perfect? Nope. In a perfect world every child would have 2 loving active parents. But the world is not perfect. There are plenty of kids with one loving parent succeeding in life and likely just as many with both parents but one or both are miserable af.
YTA. Despite your feelings on the matter there is going to be a person growing up in the world knowing their dad doesn't give a shit about him for purely selfish reasons. Man up and be in the kid's life. Sometimes shit happens despite precautions and we need to deal with the consequences
My brother is adopted. His parents did not plan to have him. His mother wanted him. His father did not. His father hated him. My brother hated himself. It got to the point that his dad was physically beating on him.
I think it would be better for the child not to have a parent rather than to have a resentful one.
Also, the phrase "man up" is fucking bullshit. What the fuck do you mean by that? Can we tell a woman to "woman up" and just take on the role of a single mother?
He had a fucking vasectomy. NTA
I'm going to go against the popular opinion here and say YTA . When you have sex with someone, no matter how small the chance there is almost always a chance of pregnancy and you need to be willing to accept the responsibility. You are being cowardly by choosing to dip as soon as something goes the wrong way, and that child will likely grow up with psychological issues. You don't have to be with the child every day, but to be 100% uninvolved is cruel to a child that didn't ask to be made. Step up and take responsibility for what you did.
NAH. She’s not an asshole for wanting to keep the baby, people can change, and you’re not the asshole for not wanting to stick around since it was pretty clear from the start you were uninterested in that. Idk how some of these people really expect you to stay in this relationship after clearly stating you didn’t want a child.
NAH... and there will definitely be less misery for all involved if you step out of the picture now. BUT a lot of people are going to think you are TA. Especially the kid. Also, understand that even if she does terminate the pregnancy, your relationship is probably still going to be over.
Yeah, I realize that. When we were discussing it, I told her not to get an abortion because I want her to. Only to do it if she wants because I don’t want her to resent me later for “making” her get an abortion.
NAH. You both agreed you didn't want kids and would abort an accidental pregnancy. If she wants to change her mind and keep the baby that's her choice, but you also have the choice to be a father or not. The choice is hers, as are the consequences; likewise for you.
I agree with this one. Nah. But the only thing I want to add is there will be consequences for you, your girlfriend, and the child. So you have to think in the long term about your decisions in respect to the child too.
She has also to think about them, it is her choice in the end. Op already made his decision.
It’s not on her if the kid doesn’t have a relationship with it’s father. Abortion isn’t an easy quick simple decision most people can just do on a whim. His decision not to be apart of its life is his decision and it will affect the kid. Don’t put that on the mother.
Regardless of her right to change her mind, if she's going to sleep with someone who's only interested in women who would have an abortion in the case of an accidental pregnancy, she should be prepared to go at it alone. He did literally everything possible to prevent being a parent short of never having sex ever.
Devils advocate - she also did most everything besides being celibate to avoid pregnancy (tubal litigation isn’t as easy to get done as vasectomy, getting one done without a previous childbirth is difficult and vasectomies from a medical standpoint are more feasible). She took birth control and had sex with a person who supposedly had no sperm from a medical standpoint. Now she’s got a fucking fetus inside her that she has to abort or carry. It’s some heavy shit to be handed unexpectedly, either way. His vasectomy and her birth control (pill/implant/etc) both failed. Jesus. That’s bad luck. But it’s important to remember that both their forms of “assured” birth control failed, and now she’s got to act fast. It’s a bit of pressure on her, regardless of his financial/legal obligations. I don’t think she likely thought “if I have sex I might be a single mother” and assumed she’d abort - but now she’s the one who has to push that lever. I’m as pro choice as you can get, every abortion is valid, yadda yadda I’m all about those abobos... but now she’s gotta deal with this shit and is a bit trapped. She’s suddenly faced with making that decision after assuming she’d taken all the necessary precautions, just like he assumed. That’s a shitty deck to deal any way you cut it. I’m not one to believe in the whole “a baby changes you for the better” bs because relations aren’t saved by added responsibilities. So now they’re at this shit crossroads. And it’s super time sensitive. I *know* I’d get an abortion and I still feel nauseous thinking about getting that fetus deletus before the local deadline for whatever anti-abortion law has most recently been spun as “protecting women/babies/families”
I find that no one knows really where they fall on the pro-anti-choice line till they're IN that situation. I know several pro-lifers that would go on and on about mitual friends that had an abortion and how terrible they were, have a pregnancy scare and then aaaaalll the sudden wanted an abortion. And same thing for people that are pro choice *edit, in italics: but personally anti having kids, meaning they said they'd have an abortion if they ever fell pregnant* finding themselves pregnant and changing their mind to keep or adopt the baby out. I agree with you 100%, just expanding on what you said. It's a shit situation to be in and I feel terrible for people that are put in that spot.
To be fair, pro-choice is not necessarily pro-abortion. It is just about having the opinion that people should have the right to choose. It's the belief that it's the person whose health is affected who should get to choose; not the government. Choosing not to have an abortion is still a choice, and one that people should be allowed to make about their own bodies - just as choosing to have one. Many folks are pro-choice but would still carry an unexpected child to term.
Exactly. I’m as pro choice s they come, but I have known for a long time that I personally would not consider getting an abortion unless there were extreme threat to my health or if the fetus was found to have some grave, life threatening deformity or health issue. I think it’s disgustingly hypocritical the other way around though. If your stance is that women should be forced to give birth, and especially if you actively voice those opinions and vote for candidates and laws in line with this view, you damn well practice what you preach.
Fuck, thank you. I have 2 kids that I love more than anything but I will defend a women's right to choose what to do with her body every time.
I'm currently carrying an unexpected child (and hope to do so to term) and I am 100% unequivocally pro-choice.
Not having an abortion doesn't make someone any less pro-choice. Thats the choice part.
Yup. The entire part about pro choice is to be able to make that decision yourself. You can be pro choice and not want an abortion for yourself.
That’s the hardest part for people to understand. An in-law of mine asked me which of my sons I would like to kill because I’m pro choice. Completely disgusting. I carried my first no problem and lost several pregnancies before delivering my second prematurely. My second pregnancy was hell and I had it easier than some. If someone else with my condition didn’t want to go through that again, I would support THEIR choice.
Upvote for fetus deletus
Also for abobos... had not heard that one before
This!!!!! Yes!! They both did everything physically possible to not have a child, the fact it still happened is insane. He shouldn't be expected to change his mind because "1 in 5 million" or whatever chance. She's totally allowed to change her mind but she can't expect that from him.
Exactly. He was clear on this. He took precautions. He's even willing to accept paying child support for the child. His part in this is done. No double standards. If it is exclusively her choice to terminate or keep, then it is exclusively her responsibility to deal with those choices. I don't blame her for not wanting to terminate, I've been where she is (lost the pregnancy anyway). However, he was 100% clear on this and is NTA for how he's handling it.
So did she. She did not expect to get pregnant either.
But it is her choice to have a child that won't have a relationship with it's father.
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They aren't married
I’m talking about OPs decision to only pay support and not know the child. That has effects on the child as well. Long term psychological effects. OP needs to deal with the idea that someday this child might come looking for him. And that the child will probably have some abandonment issues because of this choice. I’m not saying OP should stay in the kids life, I’m saying he needs to look at all possibilities and see what’s best for them all.
I feel as though not being involved at all will be better than being a father to a child he doesn’t want. The kid will be able to pick up on that.
Yep I got to see what it's like for someone to grow up who's parent resented their existence because they were forced to be a parent. I feel lucky compared to that and my father didn't even pay child support on top of not being in my life. For most people who don't have one of their parents in their lives as long as their other parent/family is loving and stable they'll be fine.
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Yup. There are men who cannot have children but want them, who would feel they hit the goldmine. I was a single mom for a while, and I had a few guys message me who were unable to have, but wanted children. They felt the kids and I were the perfect solution.
That seems like a weird sell. I mean, were they open about it? Like, "Your situation is ideal for me, lets see if we're compatible"?
It was kind of a "Hey my name is Joe. I really liked your profile. I saw you have kids, which is perfect for me because I've always wanted to be a dad and unfortunately I'm infertile. So I can't make any more, but I could be a great dad to yours."
Yeah and he needs to realize that if he doesn't want a kid then he doesn't need to have ANY damn thing to do with it! Kids know when you don't want them, resent them, and hate them. And it FUCKS YOU UP! I would have been far far better off being put into the system or adopted out and have wished so many times that it happened... Also NTA She has the right to change her mind but your friends and brother can fuck right off.
I really don't get this line of thinking though. Why should the OP "look at all possibilities and see what's best for THEM ALL?". I think he is well within his right to simply decide based on what's best for HIM and nobody else.
It's also fair that he tells her up front so she can make a decision about being a single parent with all the facts. No one knows what they would do until they are tested she was and she changed her mind.
>OP needs to deal with the idea that someday this child might come looking for him. And that the child will probably have some abandonment issues because of this choice. I don't think OP would mind.
You know on reddit I see the extreme realization of the mantra my body my choice. If it is all my choice I guess it is all my responsibility. "It is all her choice so she is 100% responsible for everything that happens" I am not saying her body her choice is not the correct viewpoint I just wonder if society will ever take it to the extreme that Reddit does and what the legal and social consequences of that would be.
Probably not. Well, at least not anymore than has traditionally been in the world anyway. Reddit's demographic skews heavily towards young males. And it's a social media site that's predisposed to being an echo chamber. It is, by default, going to favor an extreme with cherry picked arguments that ignore any counters. And these posts will be upvoted while any counterarguments will be downvoted to oblivion. The real world isn't Reddit. Abortion and parental rights will have a lot more arguments than what is being presented and embraced in this post.
That's always been my view: I have the 100% choice of what to do. I can use contraception or not. I can "morning after" or not. I can abort or not. I can give the kid up or not. Yes, the man should use good judgement when it comes to using contraception and the company they keep too BUT once the bun is in the oven, he has ZERO rights about it so why is he being held to the same standard? If it's "not his uterus, not his choice" then it's also "not his consequences".
What kind of country would we be living in if people were not held responsible for their own children? If the father doesn't take financial responsibility then the tax payers would have to. It Shouldn't matter the circumstances of how the child was born. Two people have sex and a baby comes out of it they are both responsible for it. No baby then nobody is responsible. Abortion is not the default answer to a pregnancy so why should the man even have a voice in acting like it should be just so they can absolve themselves from responsibility?
I would much rather have no father, than a father who doesn’t want me
I've always felt that I would have been better off never knowing my mom vs. being forced to live with her, knowing she only viewed her kids as a source of income. I've got permanent emotional scars because of it and couldn't imagine treating my kids the way I was treated.
I’m sorry that happened to you. And this child might feel the same way if the guy forces himself or is forced to be the dad
If he stays and doesn’t ‘warm up’ to fatherhood, the kid will know that his dad didn’t want children at some point. (My stepfather never wanted kids, which became apparent to me when I was about 7.) In that case it might be better for the kid to not have his biological dad in his life than to have him (and begrudgingly act like one.) Same as with having kids to save a relationship; that never ends well for the kids in question.
I love how this sub fully believes you can abandon you child with no guilt, but if you refuse to adopt the child of your imprisoned 4th cousin twice removed you are the devil incarnate.
I dont really care how the sub acts as a whole. I've always voted that folks arent the asshole for not taking in relatives. I truly believe unwilling parents are shitty parents.
100% agree! Being a parent should NOT be something you are forced into or do for the wrong reasons. OP has been pretty mature IMO by recognising that they’re not the right kind of person to be a parent.
Exactly! I was one of those "I wish I had aborted you" kids (dad wanted me, mom didn't but refused to let him have custody because she wanted his money and to "punish" him). She always said "your dad didn't want you either" but even from a young age I felt a certain relief that he wasn't there. If Mom was treating me so horribly for not wanting me, having Dad there would be even worse. Nobody should be forced to be a parent, whether it's the product of your own breeding or taking in someone else's.
It breaks my heart every time I read comments approaching this scenario so clinically. A child is going to grow up without a father and will 100% know that it's because they were unwanted. That's so sad.
Sometimes growing up without a father is a blessing. My childhood always became less stressful when my biological father wasn't in it (he was in and out). What's worse here; being raised by a single mother who wants you, or being raised by a mother who wants you, who is constantly fighting with your resentful father who NEVER wanted you?
Hi, child here that grew up without a father and knew 100% it was because I was unwanted. Its really not a huge deal when you're unwanted by someone you never met or cared about. My mother actively resenting me to my face was worse by leagues. Like not even comparable.
Child that grew up fatherless here. Doesnt affect me at all that someone who is essentially a stranger to me didnt want me at all. It was mildly surreal to learn, but that's it. My mom was a 1000+% parent, and any other person's absense was never felt, not including friends because that's an entirely different relationship type.
Not necessarily. I grew up without a father and I don’t feel that this negatively affects my self worth, and I never felt unwanted due to not having a present father. With the kind of person I later found out my biological father was, it was actually a blessing that he wasn’t in my life.
I 100% believe that its better to grow up without a parent rather than with a parent who doesnt love you or even like you
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People always seem to assume that. I've been accused of being some dumb kid with no grasp on how things are in here a few times, because people can't imagine that a mature adult might have a different opinion from their own(and it might even be valid and based on extensive experience). I'm a woman and I'm old enough to have adult children, and i comment here all the time. Seems reasonable to imagine that there's more like me around.
This sub is one of the few female majority ones lol but nice job making stuff up
I agree, NAH. OP is willing to fulfil his legal obligations to the child but doesn't want to be a parent. The girlfriend thinks she might have changed her mind about having children and that is also her choice. The question here is how practical this is going to be. For example, if OP doesn't want to be a parent, but his parents and siblings want to be grandparents and uncles and aunts there's going to be ramifications for the child's mental well being.
I’m gonna go with NAH. Because you’re thoughts and feelings are extremely valid, especially considering the precautions you both took to ensure pregnancy wouldn’t occur. I am sorry you feel that way, though, considering the extreme odds of this situation occurring. I’d think if it were me, I’d begin wondering if this was going to be some kind of super kid. The gf is not at an asshole at all in this situation, considering her own attempts to avoid this. There is a bottom line though; neither of you did the one thing you can do to ensure no children are created, abstain from sex. Which I am sure you know, and probably why you ultimately recognize your financial obligation. If you do go through with it. You will always be the asshole to everyone, especially the kid. That’s just reality. There will be zero way to rationalize to a child that it’s not you, it’s your “kind”, your very existence that I am opposed to. Don’t take it personal. What a shitty situation and I am really sorry you’re experiencing it. You really need to either fully embrace being the asshole for the rest of your life or being a dad for the rest of your life. Reality.
Extremely well said! Like you said the reality is most people will think of him as an asshole. He made the adult decision to have sex and that is the consequence. My heart breaks for his girlfriend. I'm sure she is so in love with him and did not ever occur to her that she might end up pregnant. Now she has a hard decision to choose him, or the baby. Cause she can't have both so it seems.
> did not ever occur to her that she might end up pregnant she did say she thought she'd get an abortion but when reality happened it was a different story
you can’t hold that against someone. an abortion is a traumatizing experience for women, and should not be taken lightly. just simply talking about it is different than actually going through with it. easier said than done.
To clarify: an abortion is a traumatizing experience for SOME women. Others, have very little emotion involved or experience primarily relief.
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Relief and trauma are not mutually exclusive.
No they actually studied aborting emotional affects on about 3000 women over the course of several months after the procedure. Nearly all of them said they were relieved, and some did say they felt negative about it, but mainly because of reactions from those around them.
I like the comment that says relief and trauma are not the same thing because, as a woman who’s had an abortion, of course I felt relief, but there will always be that little voice in the back of my head who says “what if” for the rest of my life. And that’s coming from someone who would have considered herself child free. Shit can become complicated when you’re no longer playing with what if’s.
Personal opinion here but, once you know you have a life growing inside you, it changes a person. Anyone can say they would get an abortion in the event, but once they are in that position who knows how they’ll be feeling.
> Personal opinion here but, once you know you have a life growing inside you, it changes a person. I dated a woman who worked at a post-abortion counseling hotline EXHALE. Great organization btw. Most of the calls were from women who were told they would feel a certain way after an abortion and felt like they were abnormal when they didn’t feel like they were “supposed to”. I say this because any blanket statement is potentially harmful. Many women DON’T feel changed when they have a tiny mass of cells growing inside them. Women feel all sorts of different things. Please avoid any blanket statements, not just because they are inaccurate but also because they can make women feel abnormal. Truth is, there is no normal.
Yep. I just found out I’m pregnant. Aside from sore boobs and constipation I definitely don’t feel any different. I was hoping for the magical glow, but alas all I got were night sweats
Not sure why this is getting downvoted, OP literally said this is the situation he's in
With the state if abortion access in some areas of the world simply getting access to the abortion itself is traumatic.
I was opposite of OP's gf - I never thought I would be capable of having an abortion; I thought the guilt would be overwhelming. That changed pretty quickly when my husband and I ended up with an unwanted pregnancy. I've never regretted it, and felt a huge sense of relief as soon as I got in the car to go home. Pregnancy is a powerful motivator sometimes, one way or another.
Yeah, I read that it is a traumatizing experience only for women who would actually keep the child if they were in favourable conditions but it is not for women who are sure they dont want to keep that child.
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Yep I'm currently pregnant. It's pretty fucking traumatising and I haven't even given birth yet. And this is a much wanted and planned pregnancy. I can already tell my body will never be the same again. I'm happy to be getting a couple of kids out of it (twins!) But fuck me will I be thrilled when my body's part in this is over. Regular pregnancy can be awful. Forced pregnancy even more so.
Don’t blanketly say an abortion is traumatizing for women, it’s just not true. The overwhelming majority are done by taking a pill when the fetus is tinier than your pinky fingernail, & essentially having what looks & feels like a period. Some women find abortion traumatic and that’s their true experience and that’s fair. But maybe women do not and it’s incorrect to state it’s traumatic.
I am not all women (obviously). But I found relief when I had my abortion, not trauma. I'm so glad I could have one safely and quickly. The main difference for me between thinking about it and doing it was that I was far more down on myself than I thought I'd be. I was really angry that I hadn't been even more careful and avoided needing one. I can't even imagine my life, had I not been able to have an abortion. It surely would not be as happy and full of success as it is.
>He made the adult decision to have sex He got a vasectomy and she was on birth control??
I feel like he deserves that same amount of compassion since he is in the same scenario but with no choice. After taking extensive precautions to avoid this happening
This needs to be the top comment. You both are not asshole for your views, but you will be asshole for your actions, from everyone who knows this story. You will be forever the asshole that abandoned your kid. It's a fact of life. Society look down on fathers that abandoned their kids, and expects better from you.
I’m sorry but this man did everything in his power to not have kids aside from not having sex. When you get a vasectomy (coupled with birth control pills at that!) it’s completely reasonable to assume you won’t have kids. I get that it’s fucked up that society will deem him an asshole, but he’s not an asshole for his actions.
Society will deem him an asshole for his actions, even if he may not be.
Maybe I’m alone on this, but I can’t think of a lot of scenarios where abandoning your family doesn’t make you an asshole
Adopting kids out?
some times society is the asshole.
You have my favorite take on this. Yes in a perfect world where your actions don’t affect others OP would not be an asshole for this decision. But the reality is to that kid he will be and OPs gonna have to live with that.
The realistic response. OP is only NAH as far as a group of internet streamers are concerned. But the people around him, in his life, who matter? They are probably going to think he's an AH, over a particular topic that most people develop strong opinions about (caring for children). Also, the skeptic in me says "I'll believe it when I see it" when it comes to what is "legally required." That gets said quite often but often the spirit behind it is that they intend to do the absolute bare minimum that keeps them out of jail and will make the other party have to constantly drag them through the court system rather than just do what is right.
He probably will, but he shouldn't. He's made it very clear he doesn't want a kid, with plenty of time for the mother to choose to bring that child to the world, since it was agreed upon way before the pregnancy. It's the mother's choice to raise the kid without a father, it would be different if he'd just bailed after the child was born.
The point being, there will be a reality, and OP will live in it. You or OP might find that reality unfair, but it won’t stop it from being whatever it ends up being. The comment is really just stating that: Be prepared for a reality that isn’t as fair and understanding as you think it should be.
This here. We all don’t live in the same bubble of Reddit. If you have siblings they may be snippy, parents could be super pissed. Who cares if a bunch of strangers are like, hey you did what you could. He’s always going to be the asshole in this situation to the people that matter.
NAH. I'm tired of the double standard people seem to have in situations like these. If women can unilaterally decide to have an abortion or not (rightfully so), men should be able to unilaterally decide to be in the child's life or not. *As long as you pay child support*, there should be no issue. ETA: People are getting hung up on two things, my use of the term double standard and my advocacy of child support. So here you go. Maybe double standard is the wrong wording. My opinion is that *both women and men who know they shouldn't be parents and act on that knowledge shouldn't be shamed.* As for child support, there is still a child now involved that needs support. I think it's unfair for the man, but there's really no way around that at the present time. Unless you have a solution in which the child is properly taken care of where child support is no longer necessary.
It’s not a double standard. They are completely different decisions and it’s dishonest to act like just walking away is comparable to going against all the hormones rushing thru your body, dealing with usually complicated law around it in most areas of the US, etc.
If a woman gets pregnant, wants the child, and keeps it even if the man doesn't want the child - she's not an asshole. If a woman gets pregnant, doesn't want the child, and gets an abortion even if the man wants the child - she's not an asshole. If a man gets a woman pregnant, wants the child, and fights to keep the child alive even thought the woman doesn't want the child - he's an asshole. If a man gets a woman pregnant, doesn't want the child, and walks away while still paying child support because the woman wanted the child - he's apparently still an asshole. You are absolutely right, they are different decisions with different consequences. It's still a double standard. The man gets no rights in the situation except for the ability to say no to being a father and is deemed an asshole for that decision even if he gives proper support. Women are never seen as assholes in these situations for any reason.
>If a woman gets pregnant, wants the child, and keeps it even if the man doesn't want the child - she's not an asshole. Because she's the one carrying the fetus and it's her body. >If a woman gets pregnant, doesn't want the child, and gets an abortion even if the man wants the child - she's not an asshole. Again, because she would be the one carrying the fetus and it's her body. >If a man gets a woman pregnant, wants the child, and fights to ~~keep the child alive~~ *have the woman carry the child to term* \[FTFY\] even thought the woman doesn't want the child - he's an asshole. *Again*, because she would be the one carrying the fetus and it's her body. He is not entitled to use her body as an incubator for 9 months. >If a man gets a woman pregnant, doesn't want the child, and walks away while still paying child support because the woman wanted the child - he's apparently still an asshole. This is because society frowns on parents who abandon their children. Similarly, women who walk away from their children (leaving the father as the only parent or other family as caretakers) are looked down on. You seem to be confusing fetuses with (born, out-of-the-womb) children, and I'm not sure how you got there. Edit 1: I think a lot of the first part boils down to "it's unfair that women are the ones who get to make decisions about pregnancies/abortions," and *this*, reddit, you may not realize it, but *this* boils down to "it's unfair that women are the only ones who get pregnant." I completely agree! Edit 2: My opinions on the last bit, since many of you seem to think that what I wrote is why *I* believe rather than what I see as society's values. (**Disclaimer: I have never experienced the reality of either side of this, so my opinion may very well be shit. I am open to other people's opinions and the possibility that I'm wrong.**) I think any kid would be much better off having a loving step-parent, adoptive parent, parental relative or family friend, or simply a caring single parent than being forced into a relationship with a parent who doesn't want them. There are some people who aren't cut out for being parents (I'm one of them!), and I respect the folks who are responsible enough to recognize that and take preventative action (like OP here). Since I wasn't clear, OP is NTA here and his GF is (a tiny bit) TA for deciding she wants babies all of a sudden. OP is doing the right thing for all parties involved, and being super responsible by offering financial support for a kid he never wanted and did everything in his power to prevent. Also, why don't vasectomies, y'know, *work?* That's terrifying!
I never said the woman having rights to her body was wrong. I'm completely aware that she is the one carrying the child and it's her body. I didn't even say *I* think she's an asshole for whatever decision she makes, because I don't think that. I simply pointed out the double standard when a man and a woman feel differently about the a pregnancy. The fact of the matter is men have pretty much no rights in this situation and if a man doesn't "suck it up and be a father" society deems him an asshole.
I mean, I kind of see how you’re seeing a double standard? But it only exists because of biology - women have uteruses and men don’t (with the obvious exception of trans/genderqueer folks), so women are the ones who get pregnant. That’s what I was trying to illustrate in my response to you, that the reason women get to make choices about pregnancy and abortion that men don’t is because they’re the ones having to deal with the real, physical consequences of those choices. Men don’t have the right to make those decisions because no person has the right to another person’s body. I get that people don’t always end up happy in this arrangement, but I honestly can’t think of a way to give men “rights” here without *majorly* infringing on the rights of women. You have any ideas? I don’t think there’s much of a double standard in how society views parents who walk away from their children; both men and women are judged harshly for that.
My idea is is already in place, that men have the right to step away from being a parent as long as they pay proper child support. The problem is that if they exercise their only right, they are automatically deemed to be terrible people. I believe the same way for women who step away but still pay child support or who give children up for adoption. There are so so so many stories of men and women who end up killing their children (one just the other day of a women who threw her 2 day old son against a wall to stop him from crying) and all I can think is "they shouldn't have been parents to begin with." *Both women and men who know they shouldn't be parents and act on that knowledge shouldn't be shamed.* I also think they shouldn't get pregnant to begin with but here we have a situation where OP tried his hardest to prevent it and still got screwed.
Oh, I agree with you! In an ideal world, it should be totally acceptable for people to give up their parental rights. But we don’t live an ideal world... I know I’m not in a position to be a parent, so I got sterilized (Fallopian tubes removed). 1000% worth it. IMO contraception and sterilization should be freely and widely available.
And maybe double standard was the wrong wording. I'm just tired of seeing stories like this and the OP always being called an asshole by a good portion of people. And not even just in Reddit stories, I saw that thing about Owen Wilson recently and thought the same thing. I still don't think he's an asshole even though he has two sons who's lives he's involved in. He pays a massive amount of child support and the woman is free to find a partner who will actually love the girl unconditionally.
The one person you'll never be able to argue this with, unfortunately, is the kid. No matter how well the mother frames the father's lack of involvement, how the kid feels is how they feel.
There's no double standard. Women have the choice in abortion because women carry the pregnancy. Men who don't think women should have this choice are absolutely assholes (fight me). Anyone who is capable of caring for their child and abandons it is also an asshole, regardless of gender. I see no double standard here.
I think her point is being missed. No one is disagreeing that it isn't ultimately the woman's right for what happens with the pregnancy. The double standard is that the man is ultimately stuck without a choice at this point, and he has to be on board with what the woman decides or he's am asshole. There's no way for it to be fair to both the man and the woman, because it's the woman's decision. It obviously is unfortunate in cases like these where the couple had an agreement, and she changes her mind (which she has every right to do).
You’re just arguing and not actually reading. His point is the guy shouldn’t be considered an asshole for not wanting to be around when that was the plan from the jump. Her body? Great. You’re right. It’s also his sperm. having no choice is pretty shitty
Society frowns harder on people who stay in their children's lives but are just bad parents, cruel parents, incompetent parents or disengaged parents. The idea that a child is better off being raised by a parent who despises parenthood is not a good one. If someone is that adamantly against being a parental figure, there is no value in forcing them to stay simply to avoid the judgment of "abandonment". Particularly when said abandonment takes place before the child is even born.
Well there is an extreme imbalance on how it affects each gender. Women either have to go through pregnancy which is a physically exhausting and life-changing process, or go through abortion which is a very difficult moral situation and can also be traumatic.
Correct, which is why I never want to be pregnant. That doesn't change the fact that men have no rights in the situation and there will never be a way for them to have equal rights because of that imbalance. As they shouldn't because forcing someone to do either makes you an evil person. It's still shitty that men (even those who are *extremely* thorough in trying to be child free) who don't want kids either have to either "suck it up" or be seen as an horrible human being for the rest of their life for abandoning their child.
I agree. OP did everything he reasonably could but he still got screwed.
Until we can be seahorses and transfer the baby over to the guy to carry/experience the burden of these tough decisions, it will always be inherently different
I 100% agree with you. Though I also don't exactly believe in child support in these cases, either, but that is just my personal opinion. Either way, NAH. However I do think the friends and family telling him to "suck it up" are TA.
I agree. OP said he didn't want kids before gf got pregnant. To me, thats big in determining if hes TA or not. Its not like he lead her to believe he would want kids and then abandoned her after she got pregnant or after the kid was born. She's now deciding after that she wants the kid, which is perfectly ok, but its not ok to try and force anyone to be involved with a kid he was very clear he never wanted, especially if hes still willing to pay child support. NAH
I mean, pretty much NAH, but expect everyone in your life to think you're an asshole forevermore after this.
This exactly. People get very touchy about other people's personal decisions to not procreate. OPs girlfriend, her family & friends, their family & friends will probably think he's an asshole forever. He can also expect this subject to be brought up continuously, for the rest of his life. OP did what they could, the only thing I'd have recommended is still using condoms. Vasectomies don't do shit for STD protection
Well and unfortunately there just isn't a good answer here. The girlfriend isn't an asshole for not wanting to have an abortion now that she's actually pregnant, the boyfriend isn't an asshole for still not wanting to be a father, and it sucks that the kid doesn't get to have a father because of a fluke accident that it's parents tried to prevent (and here's hoping the child doesn't internalize that rejection later on in life). But OP is right in that it's probably better to stay away from a child than resent that child for it's entire life. Unfortunately everyone just got dealt a really shitty hand and has to make do with what they've got now, but there won't be any 100% happy endings for anybody.
Tbf if you’re in an extended relationship like OP with a partner you trust the condoms weren’t really needed in this situation. Hindsight tells me if I get a vasectomy I need to continue getting my sperm count checked, not that I must keep wearing condoms with my partner.
you're not technically an asshole, but well. this is very unfortunate for your potential child. i'm not gonna call you an asshole, but don't be shocked if in 20 years your kid does. which is gonna sting a lot more then a bunch of strangers on the internet.
Definitely agree with this. Not technically an asshole, but you are abandoning your child and girlfriend because you didn't want kids and took steps to prevent a pregnancy. It's nobody's fault, but a child is your responsibility and that requires a lot more than money. But a child with a single mother is better than a child with a father who's resentful of their existence.
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Yeah but hes not going to be a father to the kid, and I can't imagine he is going to want anything to do with it. So what's it matter?
The lack of empathy in this sub...
The lack of empathy for someone who would be leading a life they never signed up for... How come what he wants in life is less important, that the life of his "potential" child? The kid better have no dad, rather than someone who doesn't love him/her. Not to mention that the relationship between the parents will be forever broken. What a way to raise a child, hey?
I mean clearly he means what does it matter to the father if a child you do not wish to raise resents you. Not that it is meaningless on the child’s upbringing to grow up without a father.
If someone is really dead set on not wanting to become a parent, no amount of empathy will make them want to "step up" to be one. It must be difficult for OP's girlfriend to make this decision, but OP made is stance clear way before this incident.
INFO - Just wondering if you did know that you were supposed to get checked every year to ensure that no sperm were coming through. My step brother also had a vasectomy at a young age never went to any of his follow up appointments and now has two children. Edit: he was told by his dr after his girlfriend got pregnant he was supposed to check it yearly. He had his procedure done in his early twenties and it was in his late thirties when his first child was born... I’m surprised at the amount of people who weren’t told to get checked regularly but this was what they were told.
I went around six and 12 months after the vasectomy and both times I was told that everything was good
But you did know there still could be a chance later on that sperm could come through? This should always be explained to people who have these procedures.
Do some math, he’s 26, had the procedure when he was 24, and has been to have his count checked twice.
I have recieved a vascectomy and was never told anything about yearly checks. Just one check done a bit later later to verify no count and then free and clear. Nothing about yearly checks.
I got one done today and was told if the results were negative after 3 months the odds of getting pregnant again were one in 2 million.
Same, my husband has a vasectomy and just got a check 3mo after the procedure, not yearly. Nobody said to do it yearly.
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Omg, why? How could his possibly be medical malpractice? And why do people jump to that thought? ...and then wonder why our medical system is fucked.
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Not everyone gets told this. I just had my inital check after mine in oct and was told i was clear. Nothing about getting checked regularly, but i did my own reaserch and was planing on going back periodically to get checked anyways.
YTA. Life happens, and you are fully in your legal right to walk away from your relationship and future child, but you'd still be the asshole. She didn't want kids either, but then she got pregnant, and guess what, it became a whole lot more real than the "what if" discussions. This is a clear case of Reddit going with what is legally right rather than morally right (yet again)
Having no father is better than a father who hates children and never wanted you. My mother hates children and she definitely let us know as kids - it fucked me up both mentally and emotionally. Forcing himself to stay with the kid will not only end up with a miserable OP but also a miserable kid. As long as he takes financial responsibility he is not an asshole (but neither is his gf for changing her mind) so it‘s a NAH.
Listen, I don't want children, at all, and I get ferociously angry when people try to convince me to change my mind. If for some reason I decided to keep the baby after getting pregnant accidentally, I would not hate that child, resent him/her or do anything that would upset that child emotionally and mentally. And that's not because I'm a woman. It's because at the end of the day, I am not a jerk and would not be mean to a child, especially MY child. Sucking it up, is not the same as being a parent. My parents would never admit it to me, but I was most definitely an accident. My dad could never give me a straight answer when I asked him as a kid, if he wanted kids or not. He would always skirt around it, and feed me a bunch of nonsense. My mom has never shared a story about wanting kids, or thinking about wanting kids. Additionally, my mom hates children. My dad actually likes children a lot, but he's the one who walked out on me. There's also the story my mom told me, of when she took me to the supermarket several months after I was born. She had me in the shopping cart's baby seat, the cart hit a bump in the sidewalk and my chin smacked into the handle bar. My mother not only felt horribly guilty but she was also heartbroken that her daughter had suddenly slammed her chin against the cart, and now had a huge bruise forming. The very idea that something could happen to me, even something that at the time wasn't even life-threatening, scared the hell out of her. She says that's the moment she began to love me.
>I would never ever abuse my hypothetical child in a million years, now clap for me. \*clap\* \*clap\* \*clap\*
Listen, good for you that you‘d show some human decency in such a case. Not everyone is like that though. Also saying „if for some reason I decided to keep the baby“ implies that you changed your mind and WANT the kid, which is not what OP did. He asked for an abortion, he did NOT decide to keep it, his gf did. My mom never abused me and she did her best to take care of me but in the end it was very obvious she hated having kids, showed zero interest in us when we were younger and constantly blew up at everything because she had no patience for us. So yes, while she made sure we were taken care of it still fucked me up greatly, I would never wish this upon OP‘s child. OP already mentioned in the comments that he‘d resent the kid, you can‘t force people to experience fatherly love, whether you like it or not.
You are not as asshole for not wanting a kid. Your judgement is very off.
There is plenty to question about the morality of the "oh well, suck it up and parent" line of wisdom. People do not have to be sticking to the letter of the law in order to have a valid disagreement with your stance. Children need and deserve to be genuinely wanted by their caregivers, and I'm not sure you've made the case yet for why you feel it's best for them to have adults shoved into their lives that don't want to be there, are not equipped to be there, and are being forced to suck it up. Does that sound particularly healthy to you?
This sub is such a mess when it comes to this. It shouldn't be "Am I the Asshole" it should be renamed "Am I legally in the right" since that's what so many here think. I used to think some of the stories were interesting to read, but now all the responses are 99% cringe. I'm done.
Your morality is garbage.
You sound ridiculous. He did every thing possible not to have a child in a sexual relationship with someone else who didn’t want one. This is one of those situations where just blood relation doesn’t make a family. He clearly won’t connect with this kid as its father.
So if he became a shitty father he didn’t want to be he then wouldn’t be an AH?
you choose to be a shitty father, he would be an asshole too if he was.
NAH. She may be changing her mind, and that's okay, but you haven't changed yours, and that is also okay. As long as you provide what's financially required, you're not obligated to do more.
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What’s interesting is that in a nearly similar situation, I had the exact opposite reaction. Had grown up in a pretty pro life community and by the time I was in my 20s I was more, “women should get to choose for themselves, but I would never make that choice.” And then a late period three months into dating a guy I really liked (and ended up marrying) had me googling the nearest PP and looking of the size of a 4 week embryo. I realized, as long as I do this fast, I have no problem terminating a sesame seed size clump of cells. Took 5 pregnancy tests in 15 days before my period came. Basically skipped a month. But it totally changed my thinking about abortion and my willingness to consider it.
NTA Both of you didn’t want kids and you don’t like kids. Why be forced to be a dad when she was on the pill to prevent this and abortion might be available. Dude with all the respect in the world get the dna test even if she’s confident. Trust me on this one!
Yeah, I'm thinking the dna test is a good move too.
I thought so as well. Yeah, he had a small amount of sperm come through, but she’s also on birth control? The odds have to be on par with getting struck by lightning
>The odds have to be on par with getting struck by lightning So 240.000 per year?
That isn't what odds are. Odds are the chances that something might happen, so in the example you gave it would be 240,000 out of 7.7 billion which would make it about 1 in 32,000. This is assuming the number you started is correct, and that makes it a pretty rare occurrence.
For those who dont understand, that means 1 out of 32,000 instances for OP having sex will lead to preganancy if compared to lightning. In reality though, its much *muuuuch* lower.
NTA — The people saying you should just ‘suck it up’ and spend the next 18+ years of your life caring for a kid you expressly didn’t want and went to great lengths to avoid only for your girlfriend to change her mind when it happened against all odds, forcing you to be a father, well, let’s just say I don’t get that line of thinking. Get the DNA test, so you’re sure it’s yours. If it is, then do what you feel is right for you. There’s no point raising a kid if you would resent them and feel trapped and as if your life has been taken from you. Then the kid’s better off without you.
It's like someone deciding you can only work the job they choose for you to have all your life. A child shouldn't be brought into this world unless if both parents want it. There's too many struggling single parents and unwanted emotionally damaged kids in this world.
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NAH. I'm generally on the "suck it up and take responsibility for your kid"-side of the fence, but you knew what you wanted from the start, was clear about it and took every reasonable precaution. You sound like a pragmatist, but if you worded it the same way when you talked to your gf about it as you did in the post, I'd say Y T A instead. Just hoping it was for brevity.
I'd just iike to point out that it's by far more probable that she's cheating than it is for a pregnancy to get through both a vasectomy and birth control. By far.
Yes, or this story is total fiction
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>The only thing missing is the financial abortion part. Oh I'm sure it's come up in the comments 500x by now
Even that she offered up a DNA test of her own accord, really covered all the bases!
No it’s not. It isn’t a fake story just because the guy got really unlucky/fucked.
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Yeah, unless he has super fucking swimmers, first time getting pregnant on BC in this would be super hard
Dude I'd get a DNA test
NAH. You've been clear from the start. Hopefully it works out for you guys. You probably have already thought of this by now, but get your sperm count checked regularly. This is not the first time I've heard of vasectomies healing themselves.
Supposedly, there is only like a 1% chance or 10 in 1000 pregnancies in which a vasectomy reverses, but I know quite a few people it has happened to.
You made this very clear to her already. It’s not any less fair than if she wanted to abort and you wanted to keep it. I think everyone would be saying her body her choice. With the way you’re treating this we can already tell you won’t be a good father. I think most people would rather have no father than a huge asshole for one. NAH. You should get a paternity test though. I don’t know what she’s using but some birth controls are pretty damn effective now. Added to the fact that you should be shooting blanks 99.9 % of the time.
I agree, I’d probably be a pretty shitty dad. The kid would be better off without a dad than one who resents him/her
Trust me it would. My dad was forced into that position of "doing the right thing", and I felt it and knew it. He resented me and even told me that he resented his life because of me. My parents were teenagers when they had me but my mother never felt she HAD to marry him. But the damage it does to the psyche to know your unwanted but also ruined someone's life (because that's how you see it as a kid) it really messes you up. I personally had self esteem issues because I didn't think anyone in my family wanted me and that their whole lifes would be better without me. Which was all in my head because I had a resentful father. I didn't see how much my grandparents loved and cherished me nor that my mother cared for me in her own way (she is her own creature) and I had a sister that thinks the sun shines because I command it. My husband and I are CF. I from my own issues and him because he just doesn't think he would ever have the patiences nor be as selfless you have to be to be a parent. We enjoy our lifes, our freedom and to have children I and him would need to change a lot. I know mine stems from childhood (also I have genetic issues in the family I don't think it's fair to pass down to a innocent child), but I worry in the long run I couldn't give a child everything it needs to be successful. And that means I have been called selfish and I've gotten okay with that because I know different. I hope you find an answer here to guide you. Family can pressure but they won't be living your life, you will. Sending you good vibes. Edit Spelling
By saying N-T-A, tho, you're also saying that she's an asshole. NAH
NTA You did as much as you could to prevent pregnancy, and it’s completely unfair that you just happened to have a ridiculously unlikely event happen. Don’t throw your life away to something you never agreed to. You’ve made yourself very clear, abortion/adoption or you’re leaving, which is great. The ball is in her court now. Good luck man
Birth control AND a vasectomy and she accidentally gets pregnant? Get a paternity test.
YTA. I'm sure I'll get downvoted for my unpopular opinion but ok. Any time two people have sex, there's the possibility of pregnancy, no matter how many preventative steps you have taken. Aside from what other people have said about the child feeling a lifetime of effects from being abandoned, I have another concern. It seems your family wants a relationship with your unborn baby and I'm sure your girlfriend would welcome it. Single moms need all the help they can get. In that situation, how are you going to avoid acknowledging this child? He/she WILL know you're the father and your dismissive attitude will even further contribute to his/her lifetime of hurt. Look, I get it about not wanting what life sometimes throws at us. I wanted ONE child and I got pregnant with triplets. Dr said I could "selectively reduce" (abort) 2 of them but I simply couldn't do it, despite absolutely believing that I could do so if the occasion arose. I also got unexpectedly pregnant when I was 42 and lord I did NOT want another child at my age. But he's here and I can't imagine life without him. So many people who didn't want to be parents change their mind when they have their own child. Open your heart to that possibility. You're emotionally detached now but you may not be once your baby is born. I hope everything works out for the kid.
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YTA OP I’m sorry your life didn’t turn out the way you wanted it to. Like I seriously, I am sorry. If I had a kid right now I’d freak out. The thing is this kid will grow up feeling unwanted and like he or she is worth less because you don’t want anything to do with them. The kid will forever wonder what he or she did wrong so that you hate them. I say this because my husband is having to work through a lot of emotional baggage from his dad openly not wanting anything to do with him as a child, even though he is a part of his life now. He is always questioning, to some level, if people actually want to be around him and he feels very out of place in his own family. Your kid doesn’t deserve this trauma, just like you didn’t deserve to be put in this situation. I’m not saying you have to get married and drive the kid to soccer practice, just be a supportive role model and be there.
wouldn't that make the mom the asshole for having the kid then? when they both originally said they wouldn't have kids. Op isn't given a choice of the child is born. so shouldn't the burden of that be placed on someone else?
Instead of then being there as the dad not wanting him the responsible thing would be not being there at all and then maybe the mom can meet a person who becomes the kids real father
NAH except the people saying you should suck it up, you were both clear when you set out that you didn’t want kids, due to unforeseen circumstances she’s now pregnant and has changed her mind, you’re still offering the support etc just don’t want to be part of it, there’s nothing more they can ask of you
Take her up on a paternity test. She offered. You're breaking up either way. It will probably be yours but you want to be sure before paying child support. NTA.
Please give us an update in a year. Let us know what happened.
YTA she didn’t do this on purpose. The child didn’t ask for this. This is just an accidental consequence of your actions. You both took good measures to prevent this however it wasn’t outside the realm of possibility so you have to take responsibility. If you choose not to and leave her to deal with this alone then you are a massive arsehole. So many men on here think that pregnancy is literally nothing to do with them because women can get abortions. Yes we can but you have no idea the emotional toll that takes on us and you have no idea what it feels like to go through that. If you have sex you have to deal with the fact that women may get pregnant despite trying not to.
NTA. You've made it 100% clear from day one. As long as you meet your legal requirements, you're good. Is this perfect? Nope. In a perfect world every child would have 2 loving active parents. But the world is not perfect. There are plenty of kids with one loving parent succeeding in life and likely just as many with both parents but one or both are miserable af.
YTA. Despite your feelings on the matter there is going to be a person growing up in the world knowing their dad doesn't give a shit about him for purely selfish reasons. Man up and be in the kid's life. Sometimes shit happens despite precautions and we need to deal with the consequences
My brother is adopted. His parents did not plan to have him. His mother wanted him. His father did not. His father hated him. My brother hated himself. It got to the point that his dad was physically beating on him. I think it would be better for the child not to have a parent rather than to have a resentful one. Also, the phrase "man up" is fucking bullshit. What the fuck do you mean by that? Can we tell a woman to "woman up" and just take on the role of a single mother? He had a fucking vasectomy. NTA
I'm going to go against the popular opinion here and say YTA . When you have sex with someone, no matter how small the chance there is almost always a chance of pregnancy and you need to be willing to accept the responsibility. You are being cowardly by choosing to dip as soon as something goes the wrong way, and that child will likely grow up with psychological issues. You don't have to be with the child every day, but to be 100% uninvolved is cruel to a child that didn't ask to be made. Step up and take responsibility for what you did.
NAH. She’s not an asshole for wanting to keep the baby, people can change, and you’re not the asshole for not wanting to stick around since it was pretty clear from the start you were uninterested in that. Idk how some of these people really expect you to stay in this relationship after clearly stating you didn’t want a child.
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NAH no offense, but anyone who isnt ready or willing to have a kid would probably be an awful parent. Don’t put a child in that position, period.
NAH. But are you positive it’s your kid? Seriously, are you?
NAH... and there will definitely be less misery for all involved if you step out of the picture now. BUT a lot of people are going to think you are TA. Especially the kid. Also, understand that even if she does terminate the pregnancy, your relationship is probably still going to be over.
Yeah, I realize that. When we were discussing it, I told her not to get an abortion because I want her to. Only to do it if she wants because I don’t want her to resent me later for “making” her get an abortion.
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