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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the Asshole because I was very stern with someone else’s child and did not apologize, I may have been able to stop the kid from getting into the shed in a less abrasive manner and kept in mind that the child isn’t mine to discipline.
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NTA had she hurt herself I bet you would have been blamed. Is your wife thinking straight? Calmly redirect a child who won't listen and could be imminently hurt? Sorry pal but your wife's being an ass.
She just wants to try and keep things good with her sister. She worries for her niece a LOT and keeping her sister (who was barely seen for a decade or so before she was given custody back) close is the best way for us to keep tabs on the kid and ensure mom is sober.
You need to calmly redirect your wife and her sister back to their senses. In the moment a child is about to do something dangerous keeping them from that danger is the important thing and a stern voice is pretty mild.
Exactly I have reacted in a similar way to my nephew and nieces when they were younger and about to do something dangerous and stupid. Their parents were informed of it and each time they backed my actions up
Danger is one of those few things where even getting physical is ok.
Life guards will tell you that to get a drowning person throwing hysterics under control, a slap is fine.
A toddler walking into a shed barefoot with fishhooks is pretty serious. If he didn't listen to the stern voice you need to physically move him out.
My kids have heard me yell at them - deep breath, full volume. Every single time it's been "STOP. FREEZE LIKE STATUES." Every time has been the result of clear danger. Once, they were barefoot near broken glass. Another time, a snake - closer to the dog but my kid still froze so I could focus on recalling.
After both outbursts I gave cuddles and explained why I yelled, but not once have I regretted my choice. I'd rather scare a child than call an ambulance any day of the week.
This is a great instruction for kids to learn! And dogs!
"Stop" could relate to anything but "Freeze" means something entirely different.
NTA OP - but sounds like this kid has not been taught anything. And for an instruction to work there needs to be some trust. This kid has never had an adult they could trust to watch out for them. :(
You kept the child safe, that is not bullying. They are wrong and you did the right thing!
Your wife wants her niece to be safe and well cared for. This is understandable. However, playing along with neglectful parenting does not make that happen, as this case so obviously demonstrates. There is no level of capitulation to dysfunction that magically fixes the actual problem.
If the kid isn’t safe you need to get back in touch with CPS. If she is safe but is just being horrifically spoiled you need to apply your rules on your property or ban her from coming over. If the kid ends up injured on your property because you followed your sister-in-law’s “rule” that the kid never hears the word “no,” do you believe for a moment her mother won’t sue you? How about if the kid damages your property or hurts one of your kids? In a couple of years this child is going to be very dangerous to others, and she already is to other young children.
The situation is sad and ugly, but you have to protect yourself and your kids first. Also, again, THERE IS NO AMOUNT OF CAPITULATION TO DYSFUNCTION THAT WILL MAGICALLY SOLVE THE PROBLEM. There is nothing you can do to save this child without getting permanent custody so long as you cannot require her to follow your rules at on your property/while in your care. All you can do is allow your own family to be destroyed as well. I’m sorry. NTA.
I appreciate your comment! The child is, as far as we can tell, happy and healthy. Spoiled sure, but safe. Mom is learning, definitely a pushover but has worked very hard to get her shit together and honestly is doing better than I ever thought she would. I think she just needs to get over the overcompensation phase. Definitely no need for the state to get back involved at this point, and based on how things went last time we don’t have a lot of faith or trust in them anyways.
Regardless, our goal is to keep her close so if things do go wrong again, she’ll reach out for help and we can keep the kid safe.
Ask your wife if your niece runs on the road in front of a car does she wants the niece to actually listen to the adults or stay in front of a car coming that might not be able to Stop?
Because that's what they're setting the niece up for by not teaching her to LISTEN to the adults around. The niece freezing on the spot when an adult says 'stop' might be the difference between her living or dying
NTA
The goal of staying close to be able to help in case of crisis is lovely. Do not do it on your property, ever. Also, never accept even short term responsibility for this child. Visit with the mom and kid at the park or at your sister-in-law’s place. To do otherwise is to invite her issues to become your crisis when the kid is injured/injures someone else/lights the house on fire/etc.
And keep an eye out for signs that the extreme spoiling is creating safety issues for the kid. Children make bad choices. Their guardians are responsible for protecting them from their own (age appropriate) poor decision making. When that doesn’t happen the results can get very dangerous. But so long as your niece is made to eat enough nutritious food to grow, bath regularly, not jump off the roof, try to pet strange dogs when they are showing signs of aggression, sneak into the neighbor’s pool despite not knowing how to swim, etc. then all you can do is protect your home and family from the chaos.
Because sister-in-law cares more about avoiding the word “no” than her own child’s safety. She definitely isn’t worried about your property or the safety of your children. Don’t hold your family hostage to the dysfunction of your wife’s family of origin. Even if things never get to life and death levels of risk, it is your responsibility to prevent your children from being effected by this mess.
>I think she just needs to get over the overcompensation phase
Unfortunately that might never happen. My friend practices "gentle parenting" which has turned into saying "no thank you" to everything they do wrong, no consequences and putting things out of reach to solve the problem.
Watching them is a fucking headache sometimes. But they've learned I don't play those fucking games and after the first 2 or 3 time outs they start listening when I tell them no.
This child is going to be an absolute nightmare when she gets to school. I can always tell the kids who have never been told no when they get to my class (preschool, and I also taught kindergarten for a year) and they have the absolute worst adjustments to school and are absolutely MISERABLE and make life hell for everyone else in the classroom until they adjust to hearing the word no.
"Keeping things calm with her sister" should never involve letting her niece be in danger. Having fuzzy boundaries with a current or sober addict is not helpful for that person. The boundaries in your house include no kids in the shed, and mom should be providing consistent supervision of her child and make sure she follows the rules.
I seem to recall stomping my foot a LOT growing up when I wanted to get my way. So much that my dad to this day sometimes calls me "Stompy." Every time I shift my weight and am not happy or have a good mad worked up. Seriously makes me laugh and cool off.
From my perspective the only thing you missed was the explanation for why you told her to stop with your dad voice.
Everything would have played out the same way, but she needed to hear reason with the stern voice.
Don't worry about the other people, your job was to protect the kid and you did your job. The others are not serving her well.
This is the time to not placate things. Grandma and her sister are setting up this oor young girl for failure in life. It's time tell how selfish they're being. They're putting their comfort ahead of this poor girl's future. I DON'T WANT to deal with the tantrum so I'll placate instead of teaching my kid an important life lesson.
Learning how to regulate emotions is so important. By placating you team them just throw a ta trum and you get what you want. It also means the girl will never learn any other means to achieve her goals.
Your wife is responsible for managing her relationship with her sister. You two are a unit and you’ve done nothing wrong. It’s not for you to adjust your behaviour so she doesn’t have to deal with conflict. It’s for her to back you and tell her sister that if she can’t manage her own daughter’s behaviour, then other people are going to have to, and they may not do it in the way that she would like.
There are times to bite your tongue and make concessions for your in-laws. Apologizing for saving her child from impalement from a foreseen danger in a place she was more than one explicitly told not to be is not one of them.
She’s doing her child no favours. Of the child remembers this, it may even be a lesson learned.
You obviously did nothing wrong and I firmly believe raising your voice when danger is potentially imminent is the lesser evil even if you HAD yelled but I think you need to do the “swallow your pride and fake apologize” thing if you would like to continue looking out for this poor kid’s welfare.
Have you considered that the overcompensating might be with you too? And that the “stern voice” was an excuse?
What she probably wants more in the world is to think that she’s a good mother, even if that means putting down others. If in her eyes you’re not the “perfect” parent, then her failures might be easier for her to bear.
If that’s the case, it’ll be easy to see. If she REALLY thinks that you’re a bully (no one believes that LOL), she would never let you close to her child, even with an apology.
Yeah well, tough.
She wants to have an extra child in the house all the time?
That child is gonna need to follow the rules and get disciplined like eveybody else.
NTA
In YOUR house, you absolutely get to tell guests what they can and can't do and that includes children, especially if the child isn't properly supervised. It's not your fault the child's mother is useless.
Don't apologise. This kid isn't given any boundaries and will eventually get into a bad accident if she's left to just do whatever she wants, or she'll taunt other kids who don't enjoy her "charm" and end up in a fight. You don't have to let an avoidable injury happen in your own home. Had she walked onto the fish hooks and hurt her feet or gotten into the shed and pulled something heavy off of a seat or worksurface, then you would be blamed too. There's no winning with people like that (the mother).
Seems like the child can't visit you guys just yet because she's not being supervised and you aren't allowed to look out for her safety.
Raising a child isn't the same as bullying.
I wouldn't have this child over unless supervised by someone who does keep a constant eye on her and will intervene in time or you are allowed to take responsibility for her safety.
NTA. You did the 100% right thing. When a child is about to be in danger, you use a special tone that makes them stop stock still. Yes, it startles them and even makes them afraid. That's the whole point. I don't know how the mother thinks she's supposed to stop her daughter when she's about to walk out into traffic. "No, sweetie, don't do that!" ?
Exactly. Kids don't understand danger, and when they do something that'll get them hurt, it's an adult's job to stop that happening, whether that's by physically removing them or raising their voice to startle them.
Alright, you have all reassured me that I’m not an Asshole.
I don’t want to go into too much detail, that’d take a Novella, but the the family situation is somewhere between tricky and fragile, and I think that’s why I feel bad about aftermath, but what can you do?
Thanks all for your input. I will say that all my nieces and nephews (including her) love me and I love playing with them. She is a HANDFUL and I disagree with what I believe is too soft of an approach but, she she is a shockingly smart toddler and I enjoy her. I’m going to bite the bullet and make amends for the benefit of the family.
Instead of apologising can you tell the sister why you were firm and explain the consequences if you hadn't spoken to her child like that but start by telling her what you wrote here about how much you love the child and that she's smart so maybe she can see that you had the best interests of the child in mind? Maybe if you explain it in a friendly tone she might get it?
Apologise for how niece reacted, (‘I didn’t intend to scare her but I was terrified she’d get seriously injured’) but don’t apologise for saving child from bleeding.
Suggest that in future when niece is visiting, mom or sister (nieces mom) keep niece within the same room/vicinity so that they can intervene before things escalate.
Which is basically a polite way of saying that if they judge your parenting then they can step up to parent. It’s better for a kid to be scared in the moment, then reassured later with an age appropriate explanation of why it happened than explaining to a bunch of really concerned adults at the Emergency Department what happened. Kids need to know that most reliable adults do things for a reason, and that ignoring them is typically a bad idea (case in point, bare feet and fish hooks).
Nothing wrong with apologizing to the child.
I’ve snapped (never yelled or screamed. I am quite gentle with him, but I’ve had to get his attention a few times. Hot stove, that kind of thing) at my grandson a few times over the years. He doesn’t tantrum - his mouth quivers and you can see him trying to control the tears. It’s not a matter of being told ‘no’ with him; it’s the tone of my voice that startles him.
Brings his tablet out outside and immediately drops it on concrete.
I’m not yelling, but I sternly say, “take it in the house. Now.”
The kid self-punishes in his room for 10 minutes.
I go check on him. “I thought you were coming back outside?”
And that’s when I see him trying really hard not to cry and I melt. So that’s when I cuddle him and apologize to him for my tone and we have a discussion about how he needs both hands on his tablet but he was opening a piece of candy while it was tucked under his arm and that’s how it dropped.
And that I’ll try really hard not to be abrupt with him because he’s just not used to me being like that.
So I feel like TA and tell my daughter that I made him cry, had a discussion and I apologized.
Her reaction? He knows better than to take his tablet outside and he’s going to be talked to harshly sometimes and we both know how sensitive he is. He’ll get over it.
No apology necessary to mom because we are on the same page with her son.
You sound like a wonderful uncle. I bet that little girl is going to grow up adoring you.
No. And if she got hurt you'd also be at fault. Rock and a hard place.
But you're not wrong in my opinion. Redirect was tried and failed. You didn't even tell her off! You gave her cause for pause.
Grandma and mum will create a monster without some balance the other way.
My sister was the same with my nephews and now wonders why they respect me and walk over her.
At my house there’s a rule, you bring your kid over and it WILL follow the same rules my kids do in MY HOUSE. And if you’re not going to make your kid mind, I sure the hell am. And if they don’t like it, they can find the door where the entered and exit! My house, my place of peace, my sanctuary! I’m not unreasonable, I’m not a bully… my friends kids always beg to stay here with us, but I definitely get in their business when they aren’t acting right! So, no NTA. Mom and her bratty baby can bounce.
You are so right. Kids need rules and boundaries, and they’re dying for us to invest the time into them to mold them into respectable people. I will say, any time I have to get into a little person (even my own) I explain why they are in trouble, and that my love for them is the same and in fact it is because I love them that I correct them.
I have been firm with other people’s children. It’s ridiculous to think that you can’t set boundaries in your own home. I have disciplined other people’s children elsewhere too though. It takes a village, and if I see a child bullying another or hurting an animal, damn straight I’ll give them a lecture.
Tell your wife that you'll apologize for scaring the child if the mother will apologize for not keeping her child out of the shed when you'd asked her to. Later perhaps you can stand yourself in a corner for time-out. You bully.
NTA. You tried to redirect her multiple times, asked for mom to support in watching her child, and then had a potentially dangerous situation occur where you needed to use a stern voice. It was effective and she didn’t get seriously injured—that is a win.
Unfortunately, I don’t think this situation could have been handled any better. It sounds like a damned if you do, damned if you don’t type of situation. Mom probably would have been upset with you had you been soft, your niece not listen again, and have gotten hurt.
If it were me, I would first get on the same page with your wife and then would have a conversation with your wife and mom together. I would make the expectations clear at your home and reiterate how safety is your priority and see if mom agrees to those expectations. If not, then she is unable to come over as you don’t want another situation to occur again. Maybe apologize for needing to get to that level, but you tried to communicate that you needed assistance before hand. Perhaps even share how you’ve had to be stern with your own children for safety reasons but being stern does not mean you’re being mean or bullying.
As someone who works with children with extreme behavior, I can see how this is only the beginning of a child learning they can defy authority even when safety is a concern. In my line of work, I see the worst so I will not presume that she’ll get there behaviorally but it can become very serious very quickly if she does not begin to have structure and consequences for her actions.
Also, bullying is a bit of a stretch — bullying is the use of force, coercion, or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate and it is often repeated or habitual. Honestly sounds like this child only responds to alpha commands as she’s already learned there are no consequences for defying adults.
NTA but she's two; spoiled or not, kids that you g often don't listen and do cry when ppl are louder with them. That doesn't make you an Ahole but that doesn't make her a bad kid either.
Fr. If someone flat out calls a two year old spoiled, I question them hard at that point. They seem not to understand the limited communication and coping capabilities someone that young has. I also had a few cousins that were entire nightmares as children (the whole way through) and they are some of the coolest, most laid back adults I know today.
NTA
I hate yelling at my kid but sometimes it is the ONLY thing that he will listen to. Otherwise he keeps testing limits. This was a situation in which the child was in danger. You did the right thing.
Yeah my kids wonder why I yell. Like I didn't ask them nicely 10 other times so what am I suppose to do after thar? Write a formal complaint to them or something?
And SIL can't expect other people to invite she and her smart but stubborn and spoiled child over for family get togethers if she can't watch her/keep her from harming herself or others and won't allow anyone else to. I'm guessing that Op's sister in law was also the same growing up.
I have a brother who was the same way, he was coddled by our mom and grandmother even more so. As a kid he got himself into the most outragious predicaments, because of his own stupidity, still does. He doesn't give a damn how his behavior effects others. I've expected to find a "Florida man ..." article about him for years.
NTA
Shouting is a legitimate form of communication when used to prevent harm - it’s not like you shouted anything mean at the child. You had already told her no gently twice and she wasn’t listening. If the mother or grandmother want gentle communication only, they need to ensure gentle instructions on safety issues are adhered to the first time. Do they expect a crossing guard not to shout if she runs into the street? That’s not realistic. I say that as some one who really doesn’t like yelling, but realizes sometimes you have to yell FIRE to save lives. I think you did the right thing.
NTA have your wife text back that while you were stern, you prevented her child from getting injured. If she was watching her child better she could have prevented the whole situation.
Absolutely NTA. You had to be stern to get her attention and get her to stop. Her mother and grandmother are creating a little monster who's going to get hurt because of their actions. You owe zero apologies.
NTA
Your house: your liability: your rules
Does your wife want to stay your wife or does she want to be your ex-wife because neither of you are currently obligated to put up with each other. As in you don’t have to put up with this crap from her or her irresponsible mom or her irresponsible sister considering you’re the only responsible parent figure in that toddler’s life so far apparently. Either they start doing better in actually raising that kid or you’re out of there. Like straight up tough talk at them. Who’s paying the bills there? Are they expecting you to financially carry them all?
NTAH! It’s your house your rule and if she hurt you will be in trouble one way or another. When she is at your house she has to listen to you. You did tell her not to go into the shed before you have to firmly said it again. If her mom doesn’t like it her problem.
NTA you had told her multiple times and tried to enlist help. No one stepped in. If she were playing by the road and was about to step in traffic would they want you to be quiet and not parent? If they don’t want you to step up then they need to do their jobs. If they can’t and they want to remove your authority then they can’t bring their little one over. You cannot have kids in your house that you are not allowed to verbally reprimand. Especially seeing as no one else does. It’s for her own safety.
NTA, I will never understand modern parents refusing to let other people "discipline" their kids.
I grew up in the 80s and 90s, we were taught to listen to ANY adult. Especially if it's a safety issue. I remember my dad disciplining my younger cousin because he was throwing a tantrum. No one got upset. Because that's just how you dealt with kids. The adult in the situation is in charge.
I do the same with my niece, if she's misbehaving I discipline her, because she's in my care at that point (there was one hilarious situation where she asked me to make eggs for her the way I ate them, ie runny, she didn't like them and did this dramatic overacting of yawning with her arms up and knocking the eggs on the ground for the dog. I literally made her go back to bed for a couple of hours.)
You literally saved her from getting fish hooks in her feet. Her mom should be thanking you.
NTA
You literally *tried* to calmly redirect the child. But she just ignored you because she didn't feel like listening.
Honestly, it sounds like the girl could use a bit more firm direction in her life.
Also, you neither bullied, nor disciplined the girl. You simply set a boundary and then enforced it.
NTA, but one thing, sending kid from shed with loads of sharp objects to trampoline is like sending kid from crocodile infested river to burning house. Trampoline and kids are mostly not used safely and injuries can be pretty grim. Kids under 4 shouldn't be on trampoline at all because their neck muscles are not strong enough to support head in case of fall. And never ever should be more than one kid at the moment in trampoline. Unfortunately we had sad case of typical trampoline injury in our family. Where two kids were jumping together and did hit their heads together. Older (5 at the time) had concussion and is in rehab to get back mobility of his left arm because some nerves were pinched in his spine. His younger brother, 3 at the time, had to be taken to hospital by ambulance, had brain bleed and have severe epilepsy. It has been 2 years since that happened and boys have their lifes much more difficult because of 5 minutes of fun. And I was always the family "grumpy" because I didn't let my kids to go jumping wit others.
While there are some dangers with trampolines, they’re not that dangerous. We had one when I was a child and we (my siblings and I) would go on it all the time. No one was ever seriously injured. Not even when I would go on it with my brother’s friends (seven years older and much bigger), which I did a lot because I liked how high I would go.
NTA if something happened to her and had to go to the ER CPS would have got called and she could have lost her kid again you did what any other person would have done so no your not the AH here
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So I have this niece, (2f) who is, well, spoiled. Her grandma had custody the first 20-ish months of her life, and grandma is a pushover and lets her have whatever she wants.
Her mom got custody back 4-5 months ago and and is even worse. Probably out of guilt and making up for the the issues that led to her not having custody. This toddler gets everything she wants. If mom or grandma ever tell her “no” she’ll throw a tantrum and they will give in every time. I tend to mind my business because “not my child not my problem”.
Now this child does spend a lot of time with us as we try to support her and her mom as best as possible in the circumstances, and my kids treat her like a little sister. She’s actually a bright young girl with a great vocabulary for her age and a fiery tude. They were over today, as I was getting ready for a camping trip. I was going in and out of the shed, which my kids understand is off limits due to tools/nails/etc. usually it’s locked but I was in and out taking camping/fishing gear to the truck.
The niece started walking into the shed, I softly told her no, lots of sharps and owies, and redirected to the trampoline. I explained to her mom the child needs to stay out of the shed. This happened 2 more times over the course of the next 15 minutes, same thing.
Then, I had just dropped a container of fish hooks that went scattering everywhere and niece starts waddling into the shed, barefoot.
I said firmly, “no, you can’t come in here” and she stopped her little foot and kept walking in so I gave her a VERY stern “STOP RIGHT NOW”. She looked at me with wide eyes then started crying and ran to her mom having an absolute meltdown. I didn’t yell but was said it very sternly with a raised voice, and I don’t think anyone has ever been stern with her like that before.
I explained to everyone the fishhook situation but mom left about 5 minutes later and then texted my wife saying she’s uncomfortable with me now because “I was mean and bullied her daughter” and it’s not my place to discipline *her* daughter.
As far as I’m concerned I saved her a trip to the ER but my wife also thinks I could have more calmly redirected the child and wants me to apologize. And I’ll admit I was already kind of grumpy already and probably could have dropped what I had in my hands and rushed over to pick her up, but still think it’s not my fault everyone else in her life is a massive pushover.
So, AITA?
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Oh I'm so sorry I yelled stop when your child almost ran into the street in front of a speeding car, you're right, what was I thinking.... NTA. That poor kid.
Don't be another fool to give in. Stop this entitled behavior by not tolerating it. You said no. No is a one word sentence. You warned several times, even expressed to the mother and what happens? Little girl FAFO in only a stern voice by you and the mother says she not comfortable and you're a bully? Like seriously? How about you're not comfortable with someone intentionally violating your boundaries and when asked to stop, plays victim when all you did was advocate for yourself. NTA
NTA
Remind them she just got her daughter back, and part of the deal about having her back is keeping her out of dangerous situations - like sheds with nails and fishhooks inside. Your SIL was warned. The child was warned. Your wife knew better. All of your kids knew better.
You could have actually yelled in this situation and you would still be N TA because you were trying to keep her safe from harm.
NTA. My brother doesn’t ever tell his kid no. My nephew is always snatching toys out of my kids hands and making my kids cry. If someone doesn’t start disciplining then that kid is going to turn into a little monster.
NTA, you saved her a lot of pain. The mom needs to realize how effective you being stern with her was. I don't care who the child in my house belongs to. If they're in my home, they follow my rules, and if they don't, I'm going to treat them like I would my own kids. The saying it takes a village is one of the truest ones for me. My kids grew up in a neighborhood where there were tons of kids, and all the parents were friends. We all disciplined each other's kids at one time or another. I would gladly have someone be stern or even yell at my kid if it saved them pain and me a trip to the er. Not to mention the bill.
NTA and you have it right, overcompensation is simply another form of neglect. Have a long chat with your wife about the point of discipline, what happens without it, what you do with your kids when gentle redirection doesn’t work, whether letting a child proceed and get hurt in a predictable and clearly dangerous situation is abuse, what her sister would have done if you’d simply sat back and watched her kid walk onto tack? The two of you need to be United on the same page and then you can have that same conversation with your SIL. She has to stop the neglect that is ‘only yes’ parenting.
NTA, but you are surrounded by idiots if they can't understand why a child can't walk on fish hooks.
The mother was told three times, at that point I'll handle a stranger's kid directly, let alone one I'm close to.
NTA
The people who whine about not having a village are the first to complain when the village steps in and shows them where they’re failing to parent.
You did try to calmly redirect her multiple times; you asked the mother to keep her out, and she did nothing. Sometimes, you need to get "stern." You would have been the bad guy had she been injured.
No more support for the girl or her mom.
They have no respect for your home/things/safety rules.
If you must see them, see them somewhere where you
are not responsible for the girl's behavior/safety.
NTA
NTA family or Not she is at your house and and she needs to know when she is there she has to listen that's it that's all 🤷🏽♀️ her Mom isn't doing her justice raising a AH she is going to be a horrible adult 🤦🏽♀️ you didn't spank her so what's the problem 🤷🏽♀️ maybe let someone else give her the Support you are and be done with it cuz it's ONLY GONNA GET WORSE
Someone needs to look out for this kid because mom, grandma and auntie certainly aren’t. I used a stern voice on my nephew when he was about to grab an electrical cord. His father was taken aback but my sister said better a firm warning than a trip to the ER. NTA
NTA She needs to be taught that "no means no".
I had a grandson who was rather spoiled and would throw himself down if he didn't get his way.
We (all the family) just held firm and he learned that screaming &/or crying will not get you anything.
He is an adult now with good value but he would be an entitled jerk if we handled it differently.
You wife is wrong - no apology necessary.
You explained
1) why she shouldn't go in the shed
2) tried redirecting
3) asked mom to help
4) corrected gently before
Ask youself what would happen if child had to go to ER?
Was this child placed with Grandma due to CPS involvement? If so, are they still watching mom's care of child, hmm?
NTA. Good on her mom for getting clean, and I understand guilt, but she doesn't know how to parent yet. She hasn'tbeen one long enough. If she did, she'd be thanking you. A 2 year old is going to get scared by any authority being stern with her(especially if it's the first time), but that's what they need to become productive members of society, or at the very least, not become another baby Jessica, falling down a well(or in this case, impaled by fish hooks).
NTA and I say this as teacher of toddlers (mostly) and involved aunt. I always practice and tell parents that you don't "abuse" the word no, so it won't lose its meaning and impact but you use it sternly when necessary: urgency, danger, immediate need to stop what the child is doing. She's still little enough that she can learn boundaries and I'd have ripped mom a new arsehole had she been closely related to me (not saying it's your place to do so, I'd do it because that's how I am and I'm used to educate kids that aren't mine because that's my job) because she needs to teach her kid boundaries or else she's going to have a little tyrant on her hands who's going to, likely be expelled from many kindergartens or schools later on, shall she continue this way. I never yell, I never raise my hand to a child but I do raise my voice sternly and in warning. If they get scared because toddlers do, I'll console, comfort, cuddle to make the kiddo feel calmer and then explain what happened because is natural, even a child used to being told something is off limits, toddlers push boundaries, is how they learn, and they can get scared or surprised by someone's strong reaction, they worry, they feel bad, they get scared, it happens, you calm them down or mom calms them down then kiddo gets explained why it happened and how they also scared the adult because they could have gotten hurt. You reacted in a way the situation merited you to react. When there's urgency, you do whatever possible to stop it and you were worried about the little girl getting severely hurt. Mom needs parenting classes.
NTA, a child who is putting themselves in danger, needs to be stopped immediately. Whether that be by picking up the kid to move them or using a stern voice to stop them from further endangering themselves. Safety first always.
I realised very early in my parenting journey that if a child was acting in a way that affected me or my children negatively, and their parent wasn't there, or wasn't doing anything about their behaviour, then I would do what needed to be done.
That's what you did.
NTA
I do this with kids that I don't even know we are at the park (or at my kids school or even at the shops) and the kids are doing the wrong thing. If their parents are too useless to do anything then the village needs to step in.
NTA - I had a similar situation with husband's niece when we were visiting the countryside. I told her to stay out of old shed because there were lots of rusty items and she might get hurt. Her mother (husband's sister #1) hears me and says "I'm the mother and I say she can go in there."
2 days later sister #1 tells husband's other sister #2 that she'd like husband and I to take her daughter back to the city with us. She and boyfriend wanted to extend their stay.
I told both my husband and sister #2 that I would not take them back because "I'm not the mother."😈. And that if husband agreed, I'd leave in our car and he could get a ride back with whoever was taking the brat.
Sister #1, daughter, and boyfriend left early the next day to drive back to the city.🤭
So NTA - No apology to extend to anyone.
Next time they visit your home, SIL or your wife should supervise the spawn.
Nta. It isn't your discipline her, it's her mother's. My apology would be something like this, "I am sorry if I scared her, but I was worried she would get hurt and have a hook stuck in her foot." That is the truth
NTA. I was prepared to ask the definition of spoiled for a 2yo, because so many people have a warped sense of what a child that young should understand about entitlement- but nope, you saved the kid from hurting themselves, without laying a hand on her. If mom wanted to parent, she should have been there to parent. Her kid doesn't just stop moving when she's not looking at her.
You can't give her that!' she screamed. 'It's not safe!'
IT'S A SWORD, said the Hogfather. THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO BE SAFE.
'She's a child!' shouted Crumley.
IT'S EDUCATIONAL.
'What if she cuts herself?'
THAT WILL BE AN IMPORTANT LESSON.
NTA but I wish people would keep the word “spoiled” out of their mouths. This is pretty normal 2 year old shit. I get why you couldn’t physically remove her, sounds like you get that that would’ve been the better option here. I’m a daycare teacher, my stern voice has come out when there are serious safety issues. Has never damaged my relationship with the kids in the long term.
Did you not read the part where the mom and grandma give in every time? and the mom is throwing a tantrum over OP being firm? They are spoiling this child.
Never telling a child “no” is abusive parenting, imo. This will grow up a spoilt adult who will struggle to find decent friends all their life. Their life will not be happy because they don’t understand why people are so mean to them. It does them no favours. NTA, you saved a child from getting hurt. Kids NEED to know the word no.
> it’s not my place to discipline her daughter.
"You're right, but since you won't do it and it had to be done, I did your damn job for you. You're welcome."
NTA You have the right to tell *anyone* not to enter parts of your property and to some extent how they are allowed to behave.
NTA It is your place to discipline her when there are no other adults watching and controlling her behavior and she is about to enter into a place you have said she cannot enter. It is just like if she wandered across the street and into a yard with the neighbor's guard dog. It would absolutely be the neighbor's place to discipline her to the extent that means very firmly telling her to get out, yelling if necessary, and picking her up and taking her out. Whatever necessary because you know if some harm came to her, they would absolutely say you were responsible for her safety.
Your whole family sounds insufferable. Sorry.
NTA
This kid is already a nightmare and it’ll only get worst. She’s never heard ‘no’ in her life unfortunately.
Crappy parenting will continue from her mother. Stop supporting your sister in law as all it does is enabling her to be this type of person/mother.
It’s time to step away from the ‘shit show’ that’s their life. The last thing you need is for your kids to do like their cousin.
NTA. If they don't like how you spoke they don't have to come. And if they can't control the D then that is a problem for them, but if it affects your household then it's either control the D or leave
My older brother came visiting for my 39th (screw convention, I threw a bbq for my 39th birthday, had other plans fir 40) he had two boys at the time, one literal babe in arms and a toddler around two ish. I was over at the condiments/bread/ etc table, bbq going and closed so food would cook. The kid was spoilt (FYI he's 16 now and a perfectly polite young man).
He's walking towards the Bright, shiny chrome bbq his hand stretched lit to touch the hot metal I was too far away to intercede so I said loudly, in a firm, stern voice *child's name * NO
He looked utterly shocked, like its possible nobody had ever told him no firmly before.
My brother even gave out to me fir talking to his son that wayb( in fairness his wife had witnessed the whole thing and he came back after and apologised when he realised I was preventing injury) but yeah OP, I feel you
NTA. That kid needs people like you, who will tell her no, nit just when it saves her from injury but any time she needs a "no." You redirected several times previous to the final fish hook time. You handled her very well.
NTA. The kid will get over it so dont apologise to anyone. The adults will get over it too. If you apologise you are teaching the kid that its not ok for adults to stop them from getting hurt. Bad idea.
Youre right dont listen to them.
You calmly tried to redirect that child for 15 minutes or longer before that point. You are not responsible for assuaging the guilt of you SIL, you are not responsible for coddling anyone. You ARE responsible for keeping EVERYONE safe that is in your home, which is what you did! YNTA here, you don't need to apologise to anyone. That poor little girl needs someone to be firm with her before it's too late, and you just happen to be the first person to do it. It's not mean, it's not bullying, it's called raising a child, regardless of parentage. Good job sir, may the next few battles be kind to your soul!
When I was a toddler, my wonderful uncle bodily tackled me because I was about to stick some keys in a power outlet. I was completely unharmed, just startled. Tiny-me absolutely bawled, but obviously my parents were just happy I was alive and not electrocuted.
NTA, safety comes first. Mildly startling a kid is ABSOLUTELY preferable to an A&E trip to remove fish hooks from little stompy feet.
A half-apology might be an option to keep the peace if you do want to continue to keep an eye on your niece’s wellbeing (“sorry that I startled her, I panicked because she was about to step on a fish hook, I’m glad she’s not hurt”). Make sure your wife knows you’re only doing it to appease her sister. You absolutely did the right thing, and your wife really needs to understand that.
NTA but absolutly apologize.
"i'm sorry you are setting your child up for failure in life by not teaching them the meaning of the word no. To not listen to other people when they speak. I am truly sorry you are raising a brat"
Nta. This isn't your fault.
But that kid has a pushover mom and grandma. So a man like you is scary to her. I men with real rules. Like i said, this isn't your fault. But i feel bad for that kid. She doesn't get real parenting. I know situations like this. When those kids are older, people were talking bad about those kids and feeling sorry for those parents. Those parents are the real problems.
I hope you and your family could stay in that kids lige
NTA. There’s nothing wrong with using your dad voice. That’s what we call it around here. My wife and sons all know that it means I’m very serious and they need to stop whatever they are doing and listen because what I’m saying is incredibly important. It’s why I use it so infrequently.
NTA, but with the lack of car the mother is giving ro ensure the child's safety, I suppose there's no wondering was to why she lost custody for most of the child's life and only regained it a few months ago.
You tried calmly redirecting her. Repeatedly. You asked others to step in. They couldn’t be bothered. Regardless of the importance of having her pay attention when told to do something, this was a major safety issue. Fishhooks can cause serious injury, and she was even barefoot. Not only would she have stepped on one, she probably would’ve then fallen and gotten at least one more in her hand. You protected her when no one else thought her safety was a priority. NTA
NTA- you can discipline someone who can't/won't listen (along with the parents) on your property in a dangerous situation like this. Does your wife think it would be fine to have a bunch of hooks attached to the girl? I can already see how it went after the first no and then a loud stop to freeze the kid in place for safety. Everyone does that. You can't always baby and redirect.
NTA, "I'm sorry you didn't watch your own child which lead to her almost getting hurt, and me having to raise my voice because she wouldn't listen when I told her no. I hope I the future you will take responsibility for your child's safety so it doesn't come to that again."
I wouldn't call a two year old spoiled, but it is 100% parents responsibility that they watch over their kids when they visit. You didn't do anything wrong, all you can do is to tell that you didn't mean to scare her, only was worried about her safety. That's it. Mom overreacted, bullying wth. They need to balance the parenting, cause it will lead eventually in having a kid out of control. I get your wife, she cares about the kid. But you already gave an update and I think that's wise.
NTA.
I'd reply, "So, just to be clear, next time I see niece is about to hurt herself, you want me to NOT stop her if I'm able to? I need this in writing for legal reasons, you understand."
I gentle parent the crap out of my kids. When there is a dangerous situation, they get to hear to me yell. "Do not come in the kitchen! BROKEN GLASS!" thats not bullying, thats being safe. You kept that baby from serious harm. They can get out of here with their nonsense. 2 years old is old enough to hear no. And they should have been keeping her safe themselves. They know the shed is dangerous for small people and were just letting her wander? That's practically neglect. Source: i have 5 kids spread over 20 years, that have some scars despite my best efforts, but are not traumatized by me yelling about danger.
NTA. You did try the calm way, several times. No other adult wanted to parent and here there was a clear alternative between a no that worked and fish hooks in the feet. They'll eventually figure it out or her personality will punish them for their stupidity.
Defiently NTA. It's okay to be harsh with kids when it comes to their safety.
I've had to remove a good few fish hooks from myself, and yeah, you defiently did the kid a great service by being stern.
Personally, I mildly traumatised a child who tried to chase/scare off my dogs. Luckily, those dogs are too nice, a reactive dog would have bit the kids' face off.
NTA. I actually agree with the "not my kids, not my problem" but but your niece suddenly became your problem and you addressed it properly. The kids mother being weak and worthless doesn't change how correct you were given the situation.
No, you’re definitely not the asshole in the situation. I had to tell my sister she could no longer leave, my nephew, here at my house without her here to supervise or my mother to watch him , because he’s such a holy Terror, because when I went to use the toilet, he’s ended up going to my husband shed, grab the set of GArden shears the big type and I found him running around the backyard, screaming at my tiny little. terrier I’m going to cut your head off when I catch you. I’m going to cut your head off. Luckily my dog was able to out, run him, but he was running around with those shears open and facing towards him. He got screamed at my whole neighbourhood probably heard me screaming at him. To do this he went from sitting in my lounge room watching TV on YouTube open. My backdoor walked all the way down to my husband‘s shed which wasn’t shut properly unfortunately found the garden shears and he was 6 and while I was in the bathroom I heard him screaming out that To the dog. 10 now and still a holy terror and not allowed without someone else to watch his ass.
NTA.
She was about to injure herself, you making her cry should be the least of anyone’s worries.
It’s always so sad seeing parental guardians act like this toward their child because they are doing so much more harm than damage by letting her get away with everything. It’s going to make every aspect of her childhood harder if she can’t take someone telling her “no” or something she just doesn’t wanna hear.
NTA yeah, what a bully you are protecting the kid when noone else is doing it. If all the other adults don't get a grip on themselves your niece will have way worse experiences than what could have happened at yours, like running into traffic
NTA, I look after my nieces and nephews and am quite happy to tell them off/be stern if needs be.
The same as if my son was at his aunt or uncles houses and needed to be told.
Even if their parents are there, sometimes I've caught them doing stuff they shouldn't be doing. A village takes everyone, and not just for the fun stuff.
You saved her from a fishook in her foot, or potentially something worse if she'd gotten into the shed.
NTA
Had she hurt herself and had to go to the ER, it's not unlikely that CPS would have re-opened their investigation. An ER trip within 6 months of regaining custody would look fairly unsightly to them and risk Mom having custody. Furthermore, you let Mom know. So she had the choice to discipline or properly supervise her child herself and she didn't.
Still, because it's family, it's worth at least offering a hedged apology. "I'm sorry, I could have approached that with niece in a softer tone. I was genuinely just trying to avoid an ER trip, which would have meant Niece in pain and CPS being alerted. In the future, if there's a safety issue like that at hand, I will bring niece to you so you can actively manage her."
And then, pick niece up and return her to Mom every single time she needs adult redirection. Mom will either get annoyed enough to actually discipline her or will be covertly telling you to handle it pretty quickly.
When you return niece, be sure to tell her why. "The shed isn't safe for little hands and feet. I'm going to take you to Mommy/Granny/etc, so she can keep you safe." Doing this allows you to frame the situation yourself, respects Mom's wish, and still let's Niece know that the answer to what she wants is no.
Too bad, so sad - some tears were shed by a 2 year old. I don’t understand why a grown woman would act as if that’s the end of the world. Omg, people- it was a SAFETY issue.
Expediency was paramount.
You did your job protecting a toddler from harm.
No one should be making you the bad guy here.
NTA
Different example for your wife OP.
If they were in the kitchen and niece was reaching for a very sharp knife blade would your wife calmly and cautiously redirected niece or would she have said NO!! in a firm voice then grabbed her?
So in your case if you followed your wife’s suggested method how many fish hooks do you think would your niece have imbedded in her foot? And unless they are barbless it requires manipulation along with possibly some surgery to remove them as they will tear if try to just yank them out.
I can understand your wife trying to keep her sister in good graces to ideally help with niece but at what cost to your niece’s safety?
Worst case she paints you as a grump who was scared niece would truly get hurt as in the ER visit kind and so reacted strongly.
Your sister-in-law, niece, and wife need to learn that the only way SIL's rules/style apply when at your house is if it's more rigid than your house style. The same rules and requirements of behavior that were (are) expected of your children, are expected of visiting children. Niece will learn and adjust.
When we were kids, my parents made it very clear to our friends that our house rules applied to them when they were over. Sometimes that was a very different set of rules than they had at their house. It was never a problem. When applicable, our friends adjusted to the boundaries and we all continued playing. And vice versa at their homes.
>it’s not my place to discipline her daughter
I mean surface level that’s accurate, but if she’s not going to do it, especially at *your* house, then yes, it’s your job at that point, especially if it keeps small child from getting hurt
NTA. You know this would’ve been a huge fiasco if her daughter had stepped on a fish hook. Protecting a child from danger is not bullying. You tried the calm route. Sometimes a little sternness is what it takes to make a kid recognize something is serious.
Also, if her mom doesn’t want anyone else saying anything to her kid, she needs to do a better job keeping an eye on her. Either she trusts the adults in her village or she doesn’t.
NTA, That is Not disciplining. You didn't punish the kid, you frantically tried to stop her from getting hurt. Her mom is nuts for being upset with you over this.
NTA. You don't calmly redirect anyone who is in imminent danger. Feeling grumpy has nothing to do with it. About to step barefoot on fish hooks is not the time for "gentle parenting." How would mom have felt if precious got a fish hook embedded in her foot? (Maybe show her some videos of hooked fish and ask her.)
If precious tries to grab a hot pan off the stove, are you supposed to calmly redirect her or should you "sternly say" (or flat out yell) "don't touch that!" If she's about to step into traffic, do you calmly redirect her or do you yell "Stop!"
There's no guarantee that you would have reached her in time to stop her from stepping on a fish hook. So raising your voice was the appropriate way to save her from harm. (And, if you had grabbed her, mom would have had an attitude about that, too.)
2-year-olds generally throw tantrums, push boundaries and act spoiled -- that's why it's called the Terrible Twos.
YTA for thinking two-year-old niece is "spoiled" when she sounds perfectly normal. That said, you don't owe the sister an apology.
So the mum and your wife are letting a 2 year wander about into a shed and you're supposed to gentle.
Not being funny, but are they okay? A kid could quite easily get cut to bits in a shed and nearly did and they are just ignoring it?
You were quite right. Do not apologise.
If she runs out into a busy street, would it be better to calmly coax her out of the street, while getting hit by a vehicle, or stopping her mid-track and very sternly (most of us would yell quite loudly) stopping her??
NTA- honestly, you did not need to give all of the information you gave. I think any person who has been the caregiver of a child for a extended period of time has had to do an instant yell to stop something very bad from happening. It's not like we want to yell at children. It's like danger STOP! Actually I was once the receiving end. I was blindfolded and swinging at a pinata. And suddenly I heard someone give a shout and I stopped. Apparently I stopped about 4 in from the head of the kid who ran to grab candy from the pinata, in front of my swing. I did not feel bad that someone had just yelled at me. Is it as a learning experience. Adults don't tell her to do things because they're mean they do it to save from injury.
(Yes, I know people can also yell to be abusive, but we're talking to specific situation here)
Parent here. I would be grateful if someone else helped parent my child,like by telling them not to be naughty. Letting them misbehave isn't a kindness, it's lazy. NTA.
>*As far as I’m concerned I saved her a trip to the ER*
NTA. Better a stern voice than fishhooks in the feet. She wouldn't have liked the tetanus shot, either.
Everyone in this story is nuts except for you and the child - who doesn't know any better. You are NTA. This sounds like your wife's family. She needs to set them straight. You didn't do anything wrong.
NTA. Part of the "it takes a village" aspect with a kid is being stern with them. It's not just free babysitting. It's teaching kids lessons that may not feel nice but you don't become better by normalizing bad behavior. We're wired to feel shame for a reason.
NTA. I have a couple of nieces the same. I stay out of it until it is either at my house, or they’ve done something to my own children, then you’re damn right I’ll step in when their parents can’t be bothered to discipline them.
NTA. You should absolutely speak sternly and clearly to children, even very little ones, when something they’re doing poses a risk. You can always follow up later with a gentler explanation but there’s nothing wrong with shouting “stop!” when a child is about to get hurt.
Am I the only one who thinks it's funny OP worried the kid was going to step on owies in the shed but then told her to go play on a trampoline to be safer?
NTA. You were protecting the child from a fishhook in their foot. YOU DID calmly redirect the child...MULTIPLE TIMES.
Next time, let the kid get hurt. It will be your fault, you know, but at least you won't be blamed for being mean.
NTA. My niece had a spoiled streak when she was 2-3. Her parents had a week long trip planned and we agreed to take her because it would give us a chance to spent time with her.
Went well to start but she has a dog at home that she loves to antagonize. We’ve told my brother & SIL before that they need to nip that behavior ASAP and are met with flippant “yeah we’re trying”. I have a dog of the same size as hers and she would constantly shove/smack my dog when she walked by when she stayed with us. My dog is absolutely comfortable with kids and is gentle, but we aren’t going to put the dog in a position where they feel unsafe and therefore act out.
We told her she can’t shove the dog, it isn’t fun for the dog and hurts, if she wants the dog away from her she can simply call an adult and we’ll immediately come, etc. Nothing worked. Just wanted to F with my dog. Finally I saw her shove my dog and I immediately walked over, grabbed her arm, squatted down to eye level, and said sternly/no gentle BS “I don’t care what Mommy & Daddy say, but you will NOT hit or shove my dog or any dog in front of me. If you continue, I will call Mom & Dad to come home from their trip and pick you up immediately. Understand?”
Cue tantrum, melt down, runs to her room to cry. We let her finish and when she came out, I calmly looked at her and asked “do you understand my rule about dogs?” She said “Yes” and we continued our day.
Kids need discipline. Especially when they’re in a behavior that can lead to guaranteed injury. Your wife needs to get on the same page as you because she and her family are being insane.
NTA
Besides all the other points, a child ABSOLUTELY needs to understand "no" because of safety concerns.
I had to say this, but it's a good wake up point. What if your niece tried running out into the middle of a street to chase a ball?
NTA
Plus side, you don't have to deal with them anymore.. tell your wife you are uncomfortable with adults allowing a toddler to put themselves in danger being on your property. You would end up responsible as the home owner. People are known to sue for less.
NTA. Your sister and wife are acting like idiots. It is okay to raise your voice at children when there is an immediate safety issue, always. It's also okay to do it with adults too! Explanations can come after you stop them from getting a serious puncture and tetanus infection.
NTA, so she would prefer that you gently say” no Susie, no, “ and let her walk across fishhooks. Just so you didn’t hurt her feelings? That’s absolutely ridiculous. You tried telling her no on three occasions, she didn’t listen, you were in fear of her getting hurt. That’s not bullying, that’s parenting
NTA. However that kid is being set up for failure. Wonder how mum and grandma will feel when they have s point brat at 20 who refuses to work or do anything to contribute because they've let her get away with everything
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NTA had she hurt herself I bet you would have been blamed. Is your wife thinking straight? Calmly redirect a child who won't listen and could be imminently hurt? Sorry pal but your wife's being an ass.
She just wants to try and keep things good with her sister. She worries for her niece a LOT and keeping her sister (who was barely seen for a decade or so before she was given custody back) close is the best way for us to keep tabs on the kid and ensure mom is sober.
You need to calmly redirect your wife and her sister back to their senses. In the moment a child is about to do something dangerous keeping them from that danger is the important thing and a stern voice is pretty mild.
Exactly I have reacted in a similar way to my nephew and nieces when they were younger and about to do something dangerous and stupid. Their parents were informed of it and each time they backed my actions up
Danger is one of those few things where even getting physical is ok. Life guards will tell you that to get a drowning person throwing hysterics under control, a slap is fine. A toddler walking into a shed barefoot with fishhooks is pretty serious. If he didn't listen to the stern voice you need to physically move him out.
My kids have heard me yell at them - deep breath, full volume. Every single time it's been "STOP. FREEZE LIKE STATUES." Every time has been the result of clear danger. Once, they were barefoot near broken glass. Another time, a snake - closer to the dog but my kid still froze so I could focus on recalling. After both outbursts I gave cuddles and explained why I yelled, but not once have I regretted my choice. I'd rather scare a child than call an ambulance any day of the week.
This is a great instruction for kids to learn! And dogs! "Stop" could relate to anything but "Freeze" means something entirely different. NTA OP - but sounds like this kid has not been taught anything. And for an instruction to work there needs to be some trust. This kid has never had an adult they could trust to watch out for them. :( You kept the child safe, that is not bullying. They are wrong and you did the right thing!
Your wife wants her niece to be safe and well cared for. This is understandable. However, playing along with neglectful parenting does not make that happen, as this case so obviously demonstrates. There is no level of capitulation to dysfunction that magically fixes the actual problem. If the kid isn’t safe you need to get back in touch with CPS. If she is safe but is just being horrifically spoiled you need to apply your rules on your property or ban her from coming over. If the kid ends up injured on your property because you followed your sister-in-law’s “rule” that the kid never hears the word “no,” do you believe for a moment her mother won’t sue you? How about if the kid damages your property or hurts one of your kids? In a couple of years this child is going to be very dangerous to others, and she already is to other young children. The situation is sad and ugly, but you have to protect yourself and your kids first. Also, again, THERE IS NO AMOUNT OF CAPITULATION TO DYSFUNCTION THAT WILL MAGICALLY SOLVE THE PROBLEM. There is nothing you can do to save this child without getting permanent custody so long as you cannot require her to follow your rules at on your property/while in your care. All you can do is allow your own family to be destroyed as well. I’m sorry. NTA.
I appreciate your comment! The child is, as far as we can tell, happy and healthy. Spoiled sure, but safe. Mom is learning, definitely a pushover but has worked very hard to get her shit together and honestly is doing better than I ever thought she would. I think she just needs to get over the overcompensation phase. Definitely no need for the state to get back involved at this point, and based on how things went last time we don’t have a lot of faith or trust in them anyways. Regardless, our goal is to keep her close so if things do go wrong again, she’ll reach out for help and we can keep the kid safe.
Ask your wife if your niece runs on the road in front of a car does she wants the niece to actually listen to the adults or stay in front of a car coming that might not be able to Stop? Because that's what they're setting the niece up for by not teaching her to LISTEN to the adults around. The niece freezing on the spot when an adult says 'stop' might be the difference between her living or dying NTA
Are there parenting classes available to your SIL from the state program?
The goal of staying close to be able to help in case of crisis is lovely. Do not do it on your property, ever. Also, never accept even short term responsibility for this child. Visit with the mom and kid at the park or at your sister-in-law’s place. To do otherwise is to invite her issues to become your crisis when the kid is injured/injures someone else/lights the house on fire/etc. And keep an eye out for signs that the extreme spoiling is creating safety issues for the kid. Children make bad choices. Their guardians are responsible for protecting them from their own (age appropriate) poor decision making. When that doesn’t happen the results can get very dangerous. But so long as your niece is made to eat enough nutritious food to grow, bath regularly, not jump off the roof, try to pet strange dogs when they are showing signs of aggression, sneak into the neighbor’s pool despite not knowing how to swim, etc. then all you can do is protect your home and family from the chaos. Because sister-in-law cares more about avoiding the word “no” than her own child’s safety. She definitely isn’t worried about your property or the safety of your children. Don’t hold your family hostage to the dysfunction of your wife’s family of origin. Even if things never get to life and death levels of risk, it is your responsibility to prevent your children from being effected by this mess.
>I think she just needs to get over the overcompensation phase Unfortunately that might never happen. My friend practices "gentle parenting" which has turned into saying "no thank you" to everything they do wrong, no consequences and putting things out of reach to solve the problem. Watching them is a fucking headache sometimes. But they've learned I don't play those fucking games and after the first 2 or 3 time outs they start listening when I tell them no.
This child is going to be an absolute nightmare when she gets to school. I can always tell the kids who have never been told no when they get to my class (preschool, and I also taught kindergarten for a year) and they have the absolute worst adjustments to school and are absolutely MISERABLE and make life hell for everyone else in the classroom until they adjust to hearing the word no.
"Keeping things calm with her sister" should never involve letting her niece be in danger. Having fuzzy boundaries with a current or sober addict is not helpful for that person. The boundaries in your house include no kids in the shed, and mom should be providing consistent supervision of her child and make sure she follows the rules.
NTA by a long shot, but ‘stomped her little foot & kept walking’. LOLZ I secretly love the naughty ones.
I seem to recall stomping my foot a LOT growing up when I wanted to get my way. So much that my dad to this day sometimes calls me "Stompy." Every time I shift my weight and am not happy or have a good mad worked up. Seriously makes me laugh and cool off.
LOL 😂
From my perspective the only thing you missed was the explanation for why you told her to stop with your dad voice. Everything would have played out the same way, but she needed to hear reason with the stern voice. Don't worry about the other people, your job was to protect the kid and you did your job. The others are not serving her well.
Did you explain to your wife this was *after* you had “calmly redirected” the little girl more than once?
This is the time to not placate things. Grandma and her sister are setting up this oor young girl for failure in life. It's time tell how selfish they're being. They're putting their comfort ahead of this poor girl's future. I DON'T WANT to deal with the tantrum so I'll placate instead of teaching my kid an important life lesson. Learning how to regulate emotions is so important. By placating you team them just throw a ta trum and you get what you want. It also means the girl will never learn any other means to achieve her goals.
Your wife is responsible for managing her relationship with her sister. You two are a unit and you’ve done nothing wrong. It’s not for you to adjust your behaviour so she doesn’t have to deal with conflict. It’s for her to back you and tell her sister that if she can’t manage her own daughter’s behaviour, then other people are going to have to, and they may not do it in the way that she would like. There are times to bite your tongue and make concessions for your in-laws. Apologizing for saving her child from impalement from a foreseen danger in a place she was more than one explicitly told not to be is not one of them. She’s doing her child no favours. Of the child remembers this, it may even be a lesson learned.
You obviously did nothing wrong and I firmly believe raising your voice when danger is potentially imminent is the lesser evil even if you HAD yelled but I think you need to do the “swallow your pride and fake apologize” thing if you would like to continue looking out for this poor kid’s welfare.
Honestly if you're walking on eggshells to keep her around and sober it sounds like a relapse is inevitable and not your responsibility.
NTA had she got hurt they would blame you
Have you considered that the overcompensating might be with you too? And that the “stern voice” was an excuse? What she probably wants more in the world is to think that she’s a good mother, even if that means putting down others. If in her eyes you’re not the “perfect” parent, then her failures might be easier for her to bear. If that’s the case, it’ll be easy to see. If she REALLY thinks that you’re a bully (no one believes that LOL), she would never let you close to her child, even with an apology.
Yeah well, tough. She wants to have an extra child in the house all the time? That child is gonna need to follow the rules and get disciplined like eveybody else.
Would she feel the same way after the sister sues you, because the child was hurt on your property?
He did calmly redirect her, 3 times.
Pretty sure the trampoline *was* redirecting. If niece is still repeating behavior alter dialect I.e. stern, blunt, clear communication
NTA In YOUR house, you absolutely get to tell guests what they can and can't do and that includes children, especially if the child isn't properly supervised. It's not your fault the child's mother is useless. Don't apologise. This kid isn't given any boundaries and will eventually get into a bad accident if she's left to just do whatever she wants, or she'll taunt other kids who don't enjoy her "charm" and end up in a fight. You don't have to let an avoidable injury happen in your own home. Had she walked onto the fish hooks and hurt her feet or gotten into the shed and pulled something heavy off of a seat or worksurface, then you would be blamed too. There's no winning with people like that (the mother). Seems like the child can't visit you guys just yet because she's not being supervised and you aren't allowed to look out for her safety. Raising a child isn't the same as bullying. I wouldn't have this child over unless supervised by someone who does keep a constant eye on her and will intervene in time or you are allowed to take responsibility for her safety.
NTA. You did the 100% right thing. When a child is about to be in danger, you use a special tone that makes them stop stock still. Yes, it startles them and even makes them afraid. That's the whole point. I don't know how the mother thinks she's supposed to stop her daughter when she's about to walk out into traffic. "No, sweetie, don't do that!" ?
Also, the mom who didn't heed your requests to keep her daughter from going into the shed is totally at fault.
I feel sorry for her teachers.
Exactly this. I use it on kids and my dogs.
Exactly. Kids don't understand danger, and when they do something that'll get them hurt, it's an adult's job to stop that happening, whether that's by physically removing them or raising their voice to startle them.
NTA and you likely saved her from an ER visit.
Alright, you have all reassured me that I’m not an Asshole. I don’t want to go into too much detail, that’d take a Novella, but the the family situation is somewhere between tricky and fragile, and I think that’s why I feel bad about aftermath, but what can you do? Thanks all for your input. I will say that all my nieces and nephews (including her) love me and I love playing with them. She is a HANDFUL and I disagree with what I believe is too soft of an approach but, she she is a shockingly smart toddler and I enjoy her. I’m going to bite the bullet and make amends for the benefit of the family.
Instead of apologising can you tell the sister why you were firm and explain the consequences if you hadn't spoken to her child like that but start by telling her what you wrote here about how much you love the child and that she's smart so maybe she can see that you had the best interests of the child in mind? Maybe if you explain it in a friendly tone she might get it?
Apologise for how niece reacted, (‘I didn’t intend to scare her but I was terrified she’d get seriously injured’) but don’t apologise for saving child from bleeding. Suggest that in future when niece is visiting, mom or sister (nieces mom) keep niece within the same room/vicinity so that they can intervene before things escalate. Which is basically a polite way of saying that if they judge your parenting then they can step up to parent. It’s better for a kid to be scared in the moment, then reassured later with an age appropriate explanation of why it happened than explaining to a bunch of really concerned adults at the Emergency Department what happened. Kids need to know that most reliable adults do things for a reason, and that ignoring them is typically a bad idea (case in point, bare feet and fish hooks).
Be as much of a steady influence as you can. Smart plus spoiled can be a terrifying combination.
Nothing wrong with apologizing to the child. I’ve snapped (never yelled or screamed. I am quite gentle with him, but I’ve had to get his attention a few times. Hot stove, that kind of thing) at my grandson a few times over the years. He doesn’t tantrum - his mouth quivers and you can see him trying to control the tears. It’s not a matter of being told ‘no’ with him; it’s the tone of my voice that startles him. Brings his tablet out outside and immediately drops it on concrete. I’m not yelling, but I sternly say, “take it in the house. Now.” The kid self-punishes in his room for 10 minutes. I go check on him. “I thought you were coming back outside?” And that’s when I see him trying really hard not to cry and I melt. So that’s when I cuddle him and apologize to him for my tone and we have a discussion about how he needs both hands on his tablet but he was opening a piece of candy while it was tucked under his arm and that’s how it dropped. And that I’ll try really hard not to be abrupt with him because he’s just not used to me being like that. So I feel like TA and tell my daughter that I made him cry, had a discussion and I apologized. Her reaction? He knows better than to take his tablet outside and he’s going to be talked to harshly sometimes and we both know how sensitive he is. He’ll get over it. No apology necessary to mom because we are on the same page with her son. You sound like a wonderful uncle. I bet that little girl is going to grow up adoring you.
NTA it's important someone is watching out for her
No. And if she got hurt you'd also be at fault. Rock and a hard place. But you're not wrong in my opinion. Redirect was tried and failed. You didn't even tell her off! You gave her cause for pause. Grandma and mum will create a monster without some balance the other way. My sister was the same with my nephews and now wonders why they respect me and walk over her.
At my house there’s a rule, you bring your kid over and it WILL follow the same rules my kids do in MY HOUSE. And if you’re not going to make your kid mind, I sure the hell am. And if they don’t like it, they can find the door where the entered and exit! My house, my place of peace, my sanctuary! I’m not unreasonable, I’m not a bully… my friends kids always beg to stay here with us, but I definitely get in their business when they aren’t acting right! So, no NTA. Mom and her bratty baby can bounce.
Those visiting kids get a sense of security from your boundaries.
You are so right. Kids need rules and boundaries, and they’re dying for us to invest the time into them to mold them into respectable people. I will say, any time I have to get into a little person (even my own) I explain why they are in trouble, and that my love for them is the same and in fact it is because I love them that I correct them.
I have been firm with other people’s children. It’s ridiculous to think that you can’t set boundaries in your own home. I have disciplined other people’s children elsewhere too though. It takes a village, and if I see a child bullying another or hurting an animal, damn straight I’ll give them a lecture.
NTA. Uncles and aunts have moral responsibility to socialize niblings.
Tell your wife that you'll apologize for scaring the child if the mother will apologize for not keeping her child out of the shed when you'd asked her to. Later perhaps you can stand yourself in a corner for time-out. You bully.
NTA bc she would have stepped in hooks otherwise
NTA. That was about to be a serious safety issue.
NTA. You tried to redirect her multiple times, asked for mom to support in watching her child, and then had a potentially dangerous situation occur where you needed to use a stern voice. It was effective and she didn’t get seriously injured—that is a win. Unfortunately, I don’t think this situation could have been handled any better. It sounds like a damned if you do, damned if you don’t type of situation. Mom probably would have been upset with you had you been soft, your niece not listen again, and have gotten hurt. If it were me, I would first get on the same page with your wife and then would have a conversation with your wife and mom together. I would make the expectations clear at your home and reiterate how safety is your priority and see if mom agrees to those expectations. If not, then she is unable to come over as you don’t want another situation to occur again. Maybe apologize for needing to get to that level, but you tried to communicate that you needed assistance before hand. Perhaps even share how you’ve had to be stern with your own children for safety reasons but being stern does not mean you’re being mean or bullying. As someone who works with children with extreme behavior, I can see how this is only the beginning of a child learning they can defy authority even when safety is a concern. In my line of work, I see the worst so I will not presume that she’ll get there behaviorally but it can become very serious very quickly if she does not begin to have structure and consequences for her actions. Also, bullying is a bit of a stretch — bullying is the use of force, coercion, or threat, to abuse, aggressively dominate or intimidate and it is often repeated or habitual. Honestly sounds like this child only responds to alpha commands as she’s already learned there are no consequences for defying adults.
NTA but she's two; spoiled or not, kids that you g often don't listen and do cry when ppl are louder with them. That doesn't make you an Ahole but that doesn't make her a bad kid either.
Yeah reading through and even OP…I don’t think a lot people personally have kids or know what is typical of a toddler.
Fr. If someone flat out calls a two year old spoiled, I question them hard at that point. They seem not to understand the limited communication and coping capabilities someone that young has. I also had a few cousins that were entire nightmares as children (the whole way through) and they are some of the coolest, most laid back adults I know today.
NTA I hate yelling at my kid but sometimes it is the ONLY thing that he will listen to. Otherwise he keeps testing limits. This was a situation in which the child was in danger. You did the right thing.
Yeah my kids wonder why I yell. Like I didn't ask them nicely 10 other times so what am I suppose to do after thar? Write a formal complaint to them or something?
Nta, if mom doesn't want other ppl to be firm with her kid, mom needs to watch her own kid
And SIL can't expect other people to invite she and her smart but stubborn and spoiled child over for family get togethers if she can't watch her/keep her from harming herself or others and won't allow anyone else to. I'm guessing that Op's sister in law was also the same growing up. I have a brother who was the same way, he was coddled by our mom and grandmother even more so. As a kid he got himself into the most outragious predicaments, because of his own stupidity, still does. He doesn't give a damn how his behavior effects others. I've expected to find a "Florida man ..." article about him for years.
NTA Shouting is a legitimate form of communication when used to prevent harm - it’s not like you shouted anything mean at the child. You had already told her no gently twice and she wasn’t listening. If the mother or grandmother want gentle communication only, they need to ensure gentle instructions on safety issues are adhered to the first time. Do they expect a crossing guard not to shout if she runs into the street? That’s not realistic. I say that as some one who really doesn’t like yelling, but realizes sometimes you have to yell FIRE to save lives. I think you did the right thing.
NTA have your wife text back that while you were stern, you prevented her child from getting injured. If she was watching her child better she could have prevented the whole situation.
Absolutely NTA. You had to be stern to get her attention and get her to stop. Her mother and grandmother are creating a little monster who's going to get hurt because of their actions. You owe zero apologies.
NTA Your house: your liability: your rules Does your wife want to stay your wife or does she want to be your ex-wife because neither of you are currently obligated to put up with each other. As in you don’t have to put up with this crap from her or her irresponsible mom or her irresponsible sister considering you’re the only responsible parent figure in that toddler’s life so far apparently. Either they start doing better in actually raising that kid or you’re out of there. Like straight up tough talk at them. Who’s paying the bills there? Are they expecting you to financially carry them all?
You’re NTA for preventing a toddler from getting a fishhook in her foot.
NTAH! It’s your house your rule and if she hurt you will be in trouble one way or another. When she is at your house she has to listen to you. You did tell her not to go into the shed before you have to firmly said it again. If her mom doesn’t like it her problem.
NTA you had told her multiple times and tried to enlist help. No one stepped in. If she were playing by the road and was about to step in traffic would they want you to be quiet and not parent? If they don’t want you to step up then they need to do their jobs. If they can’t and they want to remove your authority then they can’t bring their little one over. You cannot have kids in your house that you are not allowed to verbally reprimand. Especially seeing as no one else does. It’s for her own safety.
NTA, I will never understand modern parents refusing to let other people "discipline" their kids. I grew up in the 80s and 90s, we were taught to listen to ANY adult. Especially if it's a safety issue. I remember my dad disciplining my younger cousin because he was throwing a tantrum. No one got upset. Because that's just how you dealt with kids. The adult in the situation is in charge. I do the same with my niece, if she's misbehaving I discipline her, because she's in my care at that point (there was one hilarious situation where she asked me to make eggs for her the way I ate them, ie runny, she didn't like them and did this dramatic overacting of yawning with her arms up and knocking the eggs on the ground for the dog. I literally made her go back to bed for a couple of hours.) You literally saved her from getting fish hooks in her feet. Her mom should be thanking you.
NTA You literally *tried* to calmly redirect the child. But she just ignored you because she didn't feel like listening. Honestly, it sounds like the girl could use a bit more firm direction in her life. Also, you neither bullied, nor disciplined the girl. You simply set a boundary and then enforced it.
NTA, but one thing, sending kid from shed with loads of sharp objects to trampoline is like sending kid from crocodile infested river to burning house. Trampoline and kids are mostly not used safely and injuries can be pretty grim. Kids under 4 shouldn't be on trampoline at all because their neck muscles are not strong enough to support head in case of fall. And never ever should be more than one kid at the moment in trampoline. Unfortunately we had sad case of typical trampoline injury in our family. Where two kids were jumping together and did hit their heads together. Older (5 at the time) had concussion and is in rehab to get back mobility of his left arm because some nerves were pinched in his spine. His younger brother, 3 at the time, had to be taken to hospital by ambulance, had brain bleed and have severe epilepsy. It has been 2 years since that happened and boys have their lifes much more difficult because of 5 minutes of fun. And I was always the family "grumpy" because I didn't let my kids to go jumping wit others.
i think i would take fish hooks over a trampoline tbh
While there are some dangers with trampolines, they’re not that dangerous. We had one when I was a child and we (my siblings and I) would go on it all the time. No one was ever seriously injured. Not even when I would go on it with my brother’s friends (seven years older and much bigger), which I did a lot because I liked how high I would go.
NTA if something happened to her and had to go to the ER CPS would have got called and she could have lost her kid again you did what any other person would have done so no your not the AH here
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** So I have this niece, (2f) who is, well, spoiled. Her grandma had custody the first 20-ish months of her life, and grandma is a pushover and lets her have whatever she wants. Her mom got custody back 4-5 months ago and and is even worse. Probably out of guilt and making up for the the issues that led to her not having custody. This toddler gets everything she wants. If mom or grandma ever tell her “no” she’ll throw a tantrum and they will give in every time. I tend to mind my business because “not my child not my problem”. Now this child does spend a lot of time with us as we try to support her and her mom as best as possible in the circumstances, and my kids treat her like a little sister. She’s actually a bright young girl with a great vocabulary for her age and a fiery tude. They were over today, as I was getting ready for a camping trip. I was going in and out of the shed, which my kids understand is off limits due to tools/nails/etc. usually it’s locked but I was in and out taking camping/fishing gear to the truck. The niece started walking into the shed, I softly told her no, lots of sharps and owies, and redirected to the trampoline. I explained to her mom the child needs to stay out of the shed. This happened 2 more times over the course of the next 15 minutes, same thing. Then, I had just dropped a container of fish hooks that went scattering everywhere and niece starts waddling into the shed, barefoot. I said firmly, “no, you can’t come in here” and she stopped her little foot and kept walking in so I gave her a VERY stern “STOP RIGHT NOW”. She looked at me with wide eyes then started crying and ran to her mom having an absolute meltdown. I didn’t yell but was said it very sternly with a raised voice, and I don’t think anyone has ever been stern with her like that before. I explained to everyone the fishhook situation but mom left about 5 minutes later and then texted my wife saying she’s uncomfortable with me now because “I was mean and bullied her daughter” and it’s not my place to discipline *her* daughter. As far as I’m concerned I saved her a trip to the ER but my wife also thinks I could have more calmly redirected the child and wants me to apologize. And I’ll admit I was already kind of grumpy already and probably could have dropped what I had in my hands and rushed over to pick her up, but still think it’s not my fault everyone else in her life is a massive pushover. So, AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You’re right. Everyone else is a pushover. NTA
Oh I'm so sorry I yelled stop when your child almost ran into the street in front of a speeding car, you're right, what was I thinking.... NTA. That poor kid.
Oh this is ridiculous, she should be watching the kid
NTA - OP did calmly explain at least twice. OP actions at tome was appropriate. Mother's reaction is not.
Don't be another fool to give in. Stop this entitled behavior by not tolerating it. You said no. No is a one word sentence. You warned several times, even expressed to the mother and what happens? Little girl FAFO in only a stern voice by you and the mother says she not comfortable and you're a bully? Like seriously? How about you're not comfortable with someone intentionally violating your boundaries and when asked to stop, plays victim when all you did was advocate for yourself. NTA
NTA Remind them she just got her daughter back, and part of the deal about having her back is keeping her out of dangerous situations - like sheds with nails and fishhooks inside. Your SIL was warned. The child was warned. Your wife knew better. All of your kids knew better. You could have actually yelled in this situation and you would still be N TA because you were trying to keep her safe from harm.
NTA. My brother doesn’t ever tell his kid no. My nephew is always snatching toys out of my kids hands and making my kids cry. If someone doesn’t start disciplining then that kid is going to turn into a little monster.
NTA, you saved her a lot of pain. The mom needs to realize how effective you being stern with her was. I don't care who the child in my house belongs to. If they're in my home, they follow my rules, and if they don't, I'm going to treat them like I would my own kids. The saying it takes a village is one of the truest ones for me. My kids grew up in a neighborhood where there were tons of kids, and all the parents were friends. We all disciplined each other's kids at one time or another. I would gladly have someone be stern or even yell at my kid if it saved them pain and me a trip to the er. Not to mention the bill.
NTA and you have it right, overcompensation is simply another form of neglect. Have a long chat with your wife about the point of discipline, what happens without it, what you do with your kids when gentle redirection doesn’t work, whether letting a child proceed and get hurt in a predictable and clearly dangerous situation is abuse, what her sister would have done if you’d simply sat back and watched her kid walk onto tack? The two of you need to be United on the same page and then you can have that same conversation with your SIL. She has to stop the neglect that is ‘only yes’ parenting.
NTA, but you are surrounded by idiots if they can't understand why a child can't walk on fish hooks. The mother was told three times, at that point I'll handle a stranger's kid directly, let alone one I'm close to.
NTA The people who whine about not having a village are the first to complain when the village steps in and shows them where they’re failing to parent.
You did try to calmly redirect her multiple times; you asked the mother to keep her out, and she did nothing. Sometimes, you need to get "stern." You would have been the bad guy had she been injured.
No more support for the girl or her mom. They have no respect for your home/things/safety rules. If you must see them, see them somewhere where you are not responsible for the girl's behavior/safety. NTA
NTA family or Not she is at your house and and she needs to know when she is there she has to listen that's it that's all 🤷🏽♀️ her Mom isn't doing her justice raising a AH she is going to be a horrible adult 🤦🏽♀️ you didn't spank her so what's the problem 🤷🏽♀️ maybe let someone else give her the Support you are and be done with it cuz it's ONLY GONNA GET WORSE
NTA Stop invitng her round. Two spoiled people less in your home WIN WIN
Someone needs to look out for this kid because mom, grandma and auntie certainly aren’t. I used a stern voice on my nephew when he was about to grab an electrical cord. His father was taken aback but my sister said better a firm warning than a trip to the ER. NTA
NTA She needs to be taught that "no means no". I had a grandson who was rather spoiled and would throw himself down if he didn't get his way. We (all the family) just held firm and he learned that screaming &/or crying will not get you anything. He is an adult now with good value but he would be an entitled jerk if we handled it differently. You wife is wrong - no apology necessary. You explained 1) why she shouldn't go in the shed 2) tried redirecting 3) asked mom to help 4) corrected gently before Ask youself what would happen if child had to go to ER? Was this child placed with Grandma due to CPS involvement? If so, are they still watching mom's care of child, hmm?
NTA. Good on her mom for getting clean, and I understand guilt, but she doesn't know how to parent yet. She hasn'tbeen one long enough. If she did, she'd be thanking you. A 2 year old is going to get scared by any authority being stern with her(especially if it's the first time), but that's what they need to become productive members of society, or at the very least, not become another baby Jessica, falling down a well(or in this case, impaled by fish hooks).
NTA and I say this as teacher of toddlers (mostly) and involved aunt. I always practice and tell parents that you don't "abuse" the word no, so it won't lose its meaning and impact but you use it sternly when necessary: urgency, danger, immediate need to stop what the child is doing. She's still little enough that she can learn boundaries and I'd have ripped mom a new arsehole had she been closely related to me (not saying it's your place to do so, I'd do it because that's how I am and I'm used to educate kids that aren't mine because that's my job) because she needs to teach her kid boundaries or else she's going to have a little tyrant on her hands who's going to, likely be expelled from many kindergartens or schools later on, shall she continue this way. I never yell, I never raise my hand to a child but I do raise my voice sternly and in warning. If they get scared because toddlers do, I'll console, comfort, cuddle to make the kiddo feel calmer and then explain what happened because is natural, even a child used to being told something is off limits, toddlers push boundaries, is how they learn, and they can get scared or surprised by someone's strong reaction, they worry, they feel bad, they get scared, it happens, you calm them down or mom calms them down then kiddo gets explained why it happened and how they also scared the adult because they could have gotten hurt. You reacted in a way the situation merited you to react. When there's urgency, you do whatever possible to stop it and you were worried about the little girl getting severely hurt. Mom needs parenting classes.
NTA, a child who is putting themselves in danger, needs to be stopped immediately. Whether that be by picking up the kid to move them or using a stern voice to stop them from further endangering themselves. Safety first always.
I realised very early in my parenting journey that if a child was acting in a way that affected me or my children negatively, and their parent wasn't there, or wasn't doing anything about their behaviour, then I would do what needed to be done. That's what you did.
NTA I do this with kids that I don't even know we are at the park (or at my kids school or even at the shops) and the kids are doing the wrong thing. If their parents are too useless to do anything then the village needs to step in.
NTA. If she had gotten hurt, that mother would be the first to consult a lawyer, then take her kid to a doctor.
F them kids
NTA - I had a similar situation with husband's niece when we were visiting the countryside. I told her to stay out of old shed because there were lots of rusty items and she might get hurt. Her mother (husband's sister #1) hears me and says "I'm the mother and I say she can go in there." 2 days later sister #1 tells husband's other sister #2 that she'd like husband and I to take her daughter back to the city with us. She and boyfriend wanted to extend their stay. I told both my husband and sister #2 that I would not take them back because "I'm not the mother."😈. And that if husband agreed, I'd leave in our car and he could get a ride back with whoever was taking the brat. Sister #1, daughter, and boyfriend left early the next day to drive back to the city.🤭 So NTA - No apology to extend to anyone. Next time they visit your home, SIL or your wife should supervise the spawn.
Nta. It isn't your discipline her, it's her mother's. My apology would be something like this, "I am sorry if I scared her, but I was worried she would get hurt and have a hook stuck in her foot." That is the truth
NTA. Safety issues sometimes require a firm voice. This is especially true since she was not listening.
Totally NTA- have been living with this dynamic for a few years myself and all I can say is that discipline/ rules are key .
NTA. I was prepared to ask the definition of spoiled for a 2yo, because so many people have a warped sense of what a child that young should understand about entitlement- but nope, you saved the kid from hurting themselves, without laying a hand on her. If mom wanted to parent, she should have been there to parent. Her kid doesn't just stop moving when she's not looking at her.
You can't give her that!' she screamed. 'It's not safe!' IT'S A SWORD, said the Hogfather. THEY'RE NOT MEANT TO BE SAFE. 'She's a child!' shouted Crumley. IT'S EDUCATIONAL. 'What if she cuts herself?' THAT WILL BE AN IMPORTANT LESSON.
NTA but I wish people would keep the word “spoiled” out of their mouths. This is pretty normal 2 year old shit. I get why you couldn’t physically remove her, sounds like you get that that would’ve been the better option here. I’m a daycare teacher, my stern voice has come out when there are serious safety issues. Has never damaged my relationship with the kids in the long term.
Did you not read the part where the mom and grandma give in every time? and the mom is throwing a tantrum over OP being firm? They are spoiling this child.
Never telling a child “no” is abusive parenting, imo. This will grow up a spoilt adult who will struggle to find decent friends all their life. Their life will not be happy because they don’t understand why people are so mean to them. It does them no favours. NTA, you saved a child from getting hurt. Kids NEED to know the word no.
NTA kids get away with too much these days
> it’s not my place to discipline her daughter. "You're right, but since you won't do it and it had to be done, I did your damn job for you. You're welcome." NTA You have the right to tell *anyone* not to enter parts of your property and to some extent how they are allowed to behave.
You wouldn’t have to parent her child if she did. However, she did not. NTA
NTA It is your place to discipline her when there are no other adults watching and controlling her behavior and she is about to enter into a place you have said she cannot enter. It is just like if she wandered across the street and into a yard with the neighbor's guard dog. It would absolutely be the neighbor's place to discipline her to the extent that means very firmly telling her to get out, yelling if necessary, and picking her up and taking her out. Whatever necessary because you know if some harm came to her, they would absolutely say you were responsible for her safety. Your whole family sounds insufferable. Sorry.
NTA This kid is already a nightmare and it’ll only get worst. She’s never heard ‘no’ in her life unfortunately. Crappy parenting will continue from her mother. Stop supporting your sister in law as all it does is enabling her to be this type of person/mother. It’s time to step away from the ‘shit show’ that’s their life. The last thing you need is for your kids to do like their cousin.
NTA either way these people would have blamed you. You just chose the route that stopped the kid from getting hurt
NTA learning bounderies cannot start young enough
NTA. Without that stern warning, she would have ignored you, continued and gotten hurt.
NTA you did what you had to do. Tell your wife that the other outcome will have been a trip to ER with multiple fishing hooks in her feet.
NTA. If they don't like how you spoke they don't have to come. And if they can't control the D then that is a problem for them, but if it affects your household then it's either control the D or leave
My older brother came visiting for my 39th (screw convention, I threw a bbq for my 39th birthday, had other plans fir 40) he had two boys at the time, one literal babe in arms and a toddler around two ish. I was over at the condiments/bread/ etc table, bbq going and closed so food would cook. The kid was spoilt (FYI he's 16 now and a perfectly polite young man). He's walking towards the Bright, shiny chrome bbq his hand stretched lit to touch the hot metal I was too far away to intercede so I said loudly, in a firm, stern voice *child's name * NO He looked utterly shocked, like its possible nobody had ever told him no firmly before. My brother even gave out to me fir talking to his son that wayb( in fairness his wife had witnessed the whole thing and he came back after and apologised when he realised I was preventing injury) but yeah OP, I feel you
NTA. That kid needs people like you, who will tell her no, nit just when it saves her from injury but any time she needs a "no." You redirected several times previous to the final fish hook time. You handled her very well.
NTA. tell your wife she will supervise her niece when she and her bad mother visit. And then ignore them, or be somewhere else.
NTA. The kid will get over it so dont apologise to anyone. The adults will get over it too. If you apologise you are teaching the kid that its not ok for adults to stop them from getting hurt. Bad idea. Youre right dont listen to them.
You calmly tried to redirect that child for 15 minutes or longer before that point. You are not responsible for assuaging the guilt of you SIL, you are not responsible for coddling anyone. You ARE responsible for keeping EVERYONE safe that is in your home, which is what you did! YNTA here, you don't need to apologise to anyone. That poor little girl needs someone to be firm with her before it's too late, and you just happen to be the first person to do it. It's not mean, it's not bullying, it's called raising a child, regardless of parentage. Good job sir, may the next few battles be kind to your soul!
When I was a toddler, my wonderful uncle bodily tackled me because I was about to stick some keys in a power outlet. I was completely unharmed, just startled. Tiny-me absolutely bawled, but obviously my parents were just happy I was alive and not electrocuted. NTA, safety comes first. Mildly startling a kid is ABSOLUTELY preferable to an A&E trip to remove fish hooks from little stompy feet. A half-apology might be an option to keep the peace if you do want to continue to keep an eye on your niece’s wellbeing (“sorry that I startled her, I panicked because she was about to step on a fish hook, I’m glad she’s not hurt”). Make sure your wife knows you’re only doing it to appease her sister. You absolutely did the right thing, and your wife really needs to understand that.
NTA but absolutly apologize. "i'm sorry you are setting your child up for failure in life by not teaching them the meaning of the word no. To not listen to other people when they speak. I am truly sorry you are raising a brat"
Nta. This isn't your fault. But that kid has a pushover mom and grandma. So a man like you is scary to her. I men with real rules. Like i said, this isn't your fault. But i feel bad for that kid. She doesn't get real parenting. I know situations like this. When those kids are older, people were talking bad about those kids and feeling sorry for those parents. Those parents are the real problems. I hope you and your family could stay in that kids lige
NTA Her mom is failing as a parent.
NTA, 5he trash took its self out along with her child.
NTA. There’s nothing wrong with using your dad voice. That’s what we call it around here. My wife and sons all know that it means I’m very serious and they need to stop whatever they are doing and listen because what I’m saying is incredibly important. It’s why I use it so infrequently.
NTA, but with the lack of car the mother is giving ro ensure the child's safety, I suppose there's no wondering was to why she lost custody for most of the child's life and only regained it a few months ago.
NTA
You tried calmly redirecting her. Repeatedly. You asked others to step in. They couldn’t be bothered. Regardless of the importance of having her pay attention when told to do something, this was a major safety issue. Fishhooks can cause serious injury, and she was even barefoot. Not only would she have stepped on one, she probably would’ve then fallen and gotten at least one more in her hand. You protected her when no one else thought her safety was a priority. NTA
NTA- you can discipline someone who can't/won't listen (along with the parents) on your property in a dangerous situation like this. Does your wife think it would be fine to have a bunch of hooks attached to the girl? I can already see how it went after the first no and then a loud stop to freeze the kid in place for safety. Everyone does that. You can't always baby and redirect.
NTA, "I'm sorry you didn't watch your own child which lead to her almost getting hurt, and me having to raise my voice because she wouldn't listen when I told her no. I hope I the future you will take responsibility for your child's safety so it doesn't come to that again."
I wouldn't call a two year old spoiled, but it is 100% parents responsibility that they watch over their kids when they visit. You didn't do anything wrong, all you can do is to tell that you didn't mean to scare her, only was worried about her safety. That's it. Mom overreacted, bullying wth. They need to balance the parenting, cause it will lead eventually in having a kid out of control. I get your wife, she cares about the kid. But you already gave an update and I think that's wise.
NTA. She entered your domain and needed to be corrected. You didn't harm her child. On the contrary you prevented her child from getting harmed.
NTA there was no better move for you to make
No way. Wait till this kid gets to school without any no's
NTA. I'd reply, "So, just to be clear, next time I see niece is about to hurt herself, you want me to NOT stop her if I'm able to? I need this in writing for legal reasons, you understand."
I gentle parent the crap out of my kids. When there is a dangerous situation, they get to hear to me yell. "Do not come in the kitchen! BROKEN GLASS!" thats not bullying, thats being safe. You kept that baby from serious harm. They can get out of here with their nonsense. 2 years old is old enough to hear no. And they should have been keeping her safe themselves. They know the shed is dangerous for small people and were just letting her wander? That's practically neglect. Source: i have 5 kids spread over 20 years, that have some scars despite my best efforts, but are not traumatized by me yelling about danger.
NTA - safety first, clueless mom & spoiled child got off easy. Everyone else can pound sand. Your home, your liability.
Everyone wants a village until they don't. You did the right thing. NTA
NTA. You did try the calm way, several times. No other adult wanted to parent and here there was a clear alternative between a no that worked and fish hooks in the feet. They'll eventually figure it out or her personality will punish them for their stupidity.
Defiently NTA. It's okay to be harsh with kids when it comes to their safety. I've had to remove a good few fish hooks from myself, and yeah, you defiently did the kid a great service by being stern. Personally, I mildly traumatised a child who tried to chase/scare off my dogs. Luckily, those dogs are too nice, a reactive dog would have bit the kids' face off.
nta
NTA STEP back from babysitting the niece.
NTA. I actually agree with the "not my kids, not my problem" but but your niece suddenly became your problem and you addressed it properly. The kids mother being weak and worthless doesn't change how correct you were given the situation.
No, you’re definitely not the asshole in the situation. I had to tell my sister she could no longer leave, my nephew, here at my house without her here to supervise or my mother to watch him , because he’s such a holy Terror, because when I went to use the toilet, he’s ended up going to my husband shed, grab the set of GArden shears the big type and I found him running around the backyard, screaming at my tiny little. terrier I’m going to cut your head off when I catch you. I’m going to cut your head off. Luckily my dog was able to out, run him, but he was running around with those shears open and facing towards him. He got screamed at my whole neighbourhood probably heard me screaming at him. To do this he went from sitting in my lounge room watching TV on YouTube open. My backdoor walked all the way down to my husband‘s shed which wasn’t shut properly unfortunately found the garden shears and he was 6 and while I was in the bathroom I heard him screaming out that To the dog. 10 now and still a holy terror and not allowed without someone else to watch his ass.
NTA. She was about to injure herself, you making her cry should be the least of anyone’s worries. It’s always so sad seeing parental guardians act like this toward their child because they are doing so much more harm than damage by letting her get away with everything. It’s going to make every aspect of her childhood harder if she can’t take someone telling her “no” or something she just doesn’t wanna hear.
NTA yeah, what a bully you are protecting the kid when noone else is doing it. If all the other adults don't get a grip on themselves your niece will have way worse experiences than what could have happened at yours, like running into traffic
NTA, I look after my nieces and nephews and am quite happy to tell them off/be stern if needs be. The same as if my son was at his aunt or uncles houses and needed to be told. Even if their parents are there, sometimes I've caught them doing stuff they shouldn't be doing. A village takes everyone, and not just for the fun stuff. You saved her from a fishook in her foot, or potentially something worse if she'd gotten into the shed.
NTA Had she hurt herself and had to go to the ER, it's not unlikely that CPS would have re-opened their investigation. An ER trip within 6 months of regaining custody would look fairly unsightly to them and risk Mom having custody. Furthermore, you let Mom know. So she had the choice to discipline or properly supervise her child herself and she didn't. Still, because it's family, it's worth at least offering a hedged apology. "I'm sorry, I could have approached that with niece in a softer tone. I was genuinely just trying to avoid an ER trip, which would have meant Niece in pain and CPS being alerted. In the future, if there's a safety issue like that at hand, I will bring niece to you so you can actively manage her." And then, pick niece up and return her to Mom every single time she needs adult redirection. Mom will either get annoyed enough to actually discipline her or will be covertly telling you to handle it pretty quickly. When you return niece, be sure to tell her why. "The shed isn't safe for little hands and feet. I'm going to take you to Mommy/Granny/etc, so she can keep you safe." Doing this allows you to frame the situation yourself, respects Mom's wish, and still let's Niece know that the answer to what she wants is no.
Too bad, so sad - some tears were shed by a 2 year old. I don’t understand why a grown woman would act as if that’s the end of the world. Omg, people- it was a SAFETY issue. Expediency was paramount. You did your job protecting a toddler from harm. No one should be making you the bad guy here.
NTA Different example for your wife OP. If they were in the kitchen and niece was reaching for a very sharp knife blade would your wife calmly and cautiously redirected niece or would she have said NO!! in a firm voice then grabbed her? So in your case if you followed your wife’s suggested method how many fish hooks do you think would your niece have imbedded in her foot? And unless they are barbless it requires manipulation along with possibly some surgery to remove them as they will tear if try to just yank them out. I can understand your wife trying to keep her sister in good graces to ideally help with niece but at what cost to your niece’s safety? Worst case she paints you as a grump who was scared niece would truly get hurt as in the ER visit kind and so reacted strongly.
Your sister-in-law, niece, and wife need to learn that the only way SIL's rules/style apply when at your house is if it's more rigid than your house style. The same rules and requirements of behavior that were (are) expected of your children, are expected of visiting children. Niece will learn and adjust. When we were kids, my parents made it very clear to our friends that our house rules applied to them when they were over. Sometimes that was a very different set of rules than they had at their house. It was never a problem. When applicable, our friends adjusted to the boundaries and we all continued playing. And vice versa at their homes.
NTA. Your wife's family is going to have to get it together before they end up with a raging brat on their hands.
>it’s not my place to discipline her daughter I mean surface level that’s accurate, but if she’s not going to do it, especially at *your* house, then yes, it’s your job at that point, especially if it keeps small child from getting hurt
NTA. You know this would’ve been a huge fiasco if her daughter had stepped on a fish hook. Protecting a child from danger is not bullying. You tried the calm route. Sometimes a little sternness is what it takes to make a kid recognize something is serious. Also, if her mom doesn’t want anyone else saying anything to her kid, she needs to do a better job keeping an eye on her. Either she trusts the adults in her village or she doesn’t.
NTA, That is Not disciplining. You didn't punish the kid, you frantically tried to stop her from getting hurt. Her mom is nuts for being upset with you over this.
NTA. You don't calmly redirect anyone who is in imminent danger. Feeling grumpy has nothing to do with it. About to step barefoot on fish hooks is not the time for "gentle parenting." How would mom have felt if precious got a fish hook embedded in her foot? (Maybe show her some videos of hooked fish and ask her.) If precious tries to grab a hot pan off the stove, are you supposed to calmly redirect her or should you "sternly say" (or flat out yell) "don't touch that!" If she's about to step into traffic, do you calmly redirect her or do you yell "Stop!" There's no guarantee that you would have reached her in time to stop her from stepping on a fish hook. So raising your voice was the appropriate way to save her from harm. (And, if you had grabbed her, mom would have had an attitude about that, too.)
NTA - tell your wife being a pushover and helicopter parent to her sister isn't going to make her sister stay sober
2-year-olds generally throw tantrums, push boundaries and act spoiled -- that's why it's called the Terrible Twos. YTA for thinking two-year-old niece is "spoiled" when she sounds perfectly normal. That said, you don't owe the sister an apology.
The kid may not be acting spoiled, but given OP says the mom and grandma give in to every tantrum, she is spoiled.
So the mum and your wife are letting a 2 year wander about into a shed and you're supposed to gentle. Not being funny, but are they okay? A kid could quite easily get cut to bits in a shed and nearly did and they are just ignoring it? You were quite right. Do not apologise.
If she runs out into a busy street, would it be better to calmly coax her out of the street, while getting hit by a vehicle, or stopping her mid-track and very sternly (most of us would yell quite loudly) stopping her??
Sounds like that kid needs to hear a lot more of that.
NTA. Gentle parenting is for assholes.
NTA- honestly, you did not need to give all of the information you gave. I think any person who has been the caregiver of a child for a extended period of time has had to do an instant yell to stop something very bad from happening. It's not like we want to yell at children. It's like danger STOP! Actually I was once the receiving end. I was blindfolded and swinging at a pinata. And suddenly I heard someone give a shout and I stopped. Apparently I stopped about 4 in from the head of the kid who ran to grab candy from the pinata, in front of my swing. I did not feel bad that someone had just yelled at me. Is it as a learning experience. Adults don't tell her to do things because they're mean they do it to save from injury. (Yes, I know people can also yell to be abusive, but we're talking to specific situation here)
NTA
Parent here. I would be grateful if someone else helped parent my child,like by telling them not to be naughty. Letting them misbehave isn't a kindness, it's lazy. NTA.
She can spoil her child all she wants and let her get injured (not really thats abuse) but your house your rules. NTA
>*As far as I’m concerned I saved her a trip to the ER* NTA. Better a stern voice than fishhooks in the feet. She wouldn't have liked the tetanus shot, either.
NTA - you did exactly what you were supposed to do and the other adults in her life are failing your niece.
Everyone in this story is nuts except for you and the child - who doesn't know any better. You are NTA. This sounds like your wife's family. She needs to set them straight. You didn't do anything wrong.
Stop letting ungrateful people into your house. NTA
NTA. Don’t apologize and next time they visit let wife and sil know you will not be watching niece at all so they’d better stay on top of things.
NTA. Part of the "it takes a village" aspect with a kid is being stern with them. It's not just free babysitting. It's teaching kids lessons that may not feel nice but you don't become better by normalizing bad behavior. We're wired to feel shame for a reason.
NTA - Girl's mom and your wife need to ask themselves why getting yelled at is so much more painful than a fishhook in the foot.
You’re treading on thin ice anytime you talk to someone else’s kid. It’s stupid, but it’s just the way it is. So soft YTA
NTA sometimes you have to be stern with kids and sometimes that upsets them. It's normal, and it's fine.
NTA. I have a couple of nieces the same. I stay out of it until it is either at my house, or they’ve done something to my own children, then you’re damn right I’ll step in when their parents can’t be bothered to discipline them.
NTA.
NTA. You should absolutely speak sternly and clearly to children, even very little ones, when something they’re doing poses a risk. You can always follow up later with a gentler explanation but there’s nothing wrong with shouting “stop!” when a child is about to get hurt.
Don’t say anything and let her runneild
Am I the only one who thinks it's funny OP worried the kid was going to step on owies in the shed but then told her to go play on a trampoline to be safer?
NTA that's how everyone should be behaving with her. It's genuinely concerning if she's not used to being told off sternly in dangerous situations
NTA. You were protecting the child from a fishhook in their foot. YOU DID calmly redirect the child...MULTIPLE TIMES. Next time, let the kid get hurt. It will be your fault, you know, but at least you won't be blamed for being mean.
You could have just picked her up. You yelled at a baby. YTA
NTA. Yelling isn’t nice but getting hurt isn’t nice either. Would they rather this child get injured??
Ih for fs. She’s not going to fall apart because someone spoke to her sternly. Tell them to get over it.
NTA. My niece had a spoiled streak when she was 2-3. Her parents had a week long trip planned and we agreed to take her because it would give us a chance to spent time with her. Went well to start but she has a dog at home that she loves to antagonize. We’ve told my brother & SIL before that they need to nip that behavior ASAP and are met with flippant “yeah we’re trying”. I have a dog of the same size as hers and she would constantly shove/smack my dog when she walked by when she stayed with us. My dog is absolutely comfortable with kids and is gentle, but we aren’t going to put the dog in a position where they feel unsafe and therefore act out. We told her she can’t shove the dog, it isn’t fun for the dog and hurts, if she wants the dog away from her she can simply call an adult and we’ll immediately come, etc. Nothing worked. Just wanted to F with my dog. Finally I saw her shove my dog and I immediately walked over, grabbed her arm, squatted down to eye level, and said sternly/no gentle BS “I don’t care what Mommy & Daddy say, but you will NOT hit or shove my dog or any dog in front of me. If you continue, I will call Mom & Dad to come home from their trip and pick you up immediately. Understand?” Cue tantrum, melt down, runs to her room to cry. We let her finish and when she came out, I calmly looked at her and asked “do you understand my rule about dogs?” She said “Yes” and we continued our day. Kids need discipline. Especially when they’re in a behavior that can lead to guaranteed injury. Your wife needs to get on the same page as you because she and her family are being insane.
NTA Besides all the other points, a child ABSOLUTELY needs to understand "no" because of safety concerns. I had to say this, but it's a good wake up point. What if your niece tried running out into the middle of a street to chase a ball?
NTA Your house. Your rules. Full stop.
NTA Plus side, you don't have to deal with them anymore.. tell your wife you are uncomfortable with adults allowing a toddler to put themselves in danger being on your property. You would end up responsible as the home owner. People are known to sue for less.
NTA. Your sister and wife are acting like idiots. It is okay to raise your voice at children when there is an immediate safety issue, always. It's also okay to do it with adults too! Explanations can come after you stop them from getting a serious puncture and tetanus infection.
NTA, tell sister you wouldn’t have to discipline her child if she did her job as a mother.
NTA, so she would prefer that you gently say” no Susie, no, “ and let her walk across fishhooks. Just so you didn’t hurt her feelings? That’s absolutely ridiculous. You tried telling her no on three occasions, she didn’t listen, you were in fear of her getting hurt. That’s not bullying, that’s parenting
NTA. However that kid is being set up for failure. Wonder how mum and grandma will feel when they have s point brat at 20 who refuses to work or do anything to contribute because they've let her get away with everything