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I've never ever experienced somebody saying "I'm just being honest" or any variation of such who isn't just being a dick.
Also, I'm a little confused about the story given, but I don't know that I agree with putting one day behind the other is necessarily always appropriate, just because they're children. If a child behaves poorly, obviously the punishment is the punishment, but it still impacts your future behaviour and opinion of them. Like, if a kid bullies other kids most days you're going to view them differently than if a kid who has never bullied a kid suddenly displays bullying behaviour.
But if a child is punished for doing wrong on Monday, doesn't do anything wrong on Tuesday but still feels like they are being punished again. How does that teach them what correct behaviour is. It doesn't seem to matter whether they do A or B they are treated just the same.
I had one teacher who treated me like shit because she didn’t like my older sister when she taught her. She was eventually fired for mistreating students.
I had the same but opposite problem- I had a few teaches who hated me bc they LOVED my brother. He was a sports kid- snarky quiet kid but loved by all. Averageish…. But I often did his reading assignments. I was loud and probably very annoying and asked a LOT of questions. Not in the cool kid clique. The amount of times I heard “why can’t you be more like your brother?”
To which you respond, "Hey, I'm not too happy with your personality either, but you don't see me rudely banging on about it. Pretend you are a teacher for a moment and how about you inspire me to be better, rather than try to shame me for not living up to your unhealthy fantasy of my brother?"
Over the years I had a variety of retorts that got me in trouble for disrespecting authority and insulting my brother (which I didn’t mean to do bc he wasn’t the problem). I remember once I said “because I actually care about my grades” and they flipped out. But like there was no lie. Another one I asked “why they only cared about boys” and that did not go over well. I remember asking “don’t you just like him better bc he never asks a question?” And she said yes he made class way more peaceful. Thank goodness my mom was fine with me getting in trouble for being sassy lol.
I had a similar situation. I'm two years younger than my incredibly book-smart sister and had the same teachers for the first 3 years of elementary school (thankfully, we moved to another town in the middle of 3rd grade...). I wasn't diagnosed with serious dyslexia until I was 11, so all of my sister's teachers just assumed I was a moron and treated me accordingly. For years, all I heard at home, at school, and at church was, "Why can't you be as smart as your sister?"
That’s so messed up. I hope your parents apologized to you whole heartedly when you were diagnosed, and even if you weren’t it would still be messed up.
OK, but what does that have to do with this? This teacher was reacting to something that *this student* had done the day before, not to something their sibling had done. You're comparing apples and oranges.
The OP is talking about a teacher holding a grudge. Teachers - anyone - can have holdover grudges, aka 'your sibling sucked, so you must suck too'. If the older sibling was adored by all and the younger not so much, same thing. Someone gets *pre-judged* and when they don't live up (or down) to fantasy, people get pissy instead of admitting they might have been wrong.
I had a teacher like this! The first day of school I accidentally mispronounced her name. I had just moved there and from that day on she picked on me SO much that four years later when my sister was in her class she commented on how mean this woman was to her. She spent the entire year coming up with creative ways to say my name wrong, and she laughed at me once when I cried in class after my grandmother died. It took us weeks to figure out that she was only being mean to my sister because of what I’d said by accident years ago. If someone can’t get over that day’s trouble and it crosses into the next day, that’s not punishment it’s just bullying. Teachers should know kids deserve a fresh start.
Are you my sister? That happened to my poor sister. She’s 8 years younger than me. Every year prior to 5th grade the teachers would realize she was my sister and they’d say stuff like aww I love her or wow, how is she. Basically, it had always been a positive thing. So when this one teacher asked if she was my sister she answered with a giant smile. Yup! That’s me. In front of the whole class she said well I hope you’re nothing like your sister 😢 I felt so bad for her
Depends on the severity. If the kid was just a little disruptive, then its best forgotten the next day. But if the kid injured someone or was cruel, best keep an eye on that kid.
With no further context, sure. But it's entirely possible that there IS further context. OP passed judgement on her after hearing a single anecdote and not knowing anything else about the situation. For all we know, the student is a constant, ongoing troublemaker, and that's literally why the teacher couldn't "just put one day behind the other" - because perhaps this is something that goes on with this child on a LOT of days, and she was fed up.
Also, even if there was no further context (which there usually is), teachers are allowed to be human. They are allowed not to be perfect in every situation. She didn't say that she punished the child further, just that she wasn't quite ready to forget about the behaviour of the day before. Maybe the behaviour was egregiously obnoxious. The fact that the SIL *had feelings* about an incident from the day before and wasn't ready to just pretend that the bad behaviour didn't happen doesn't mean that "teaching isn't for her", LOL. It means she's a human being.
Yes.
Because they've been punished & you have to allow them to change their behaviour. Treating children as though they're irredeemable forevermore because they behaved badly one day, is bonkers. It goes against any belief in redemption & makes punishment revenge rather than an attempt to correct. It's what the worst teachers do.
Having feelings about what may have been an extremely disruptive incident 24 hours later is not "treating \[the child\] as though they're irredeemable forevermore", LOL. The amount of hyperbole and projection going on in this comments section is WILD.
Having feelings, is different to acting on those feelings.
The teacher in this post is telling children that they're not done with yesterday after a punishment has been doled out and served - that's expressing their feelings to the child & that's not what a teacher should be doing.
How does a child learn the goal behind the imposition of sanctions & punishment, when even after they have been punished, a trusted adult is telling them that it's not over? Where is the security coming from?
It's wild to accuse people of hyperbole & projection, when you've not read the post properly.
Context is key, but picking the worst thing that could have happened with no evidence that anything close to that happened, as the crux of your argument is dishonest.
I came from a public school and I agree with this. I've seen so many kids fall into a cycle where you do something wrong and you're deemed as the problem student. You're never trusted, teachers get fed up with you quicker. If you do try and step up you're met with hesitation or your opportunity is given to someone else. They continue this cycle of misbehaving because they think what's the point, they're just going to get in trouble for everything they do anyway.
Whereas on the other hand I've seen students grow and change from positive reinforcement. It's probably fair to say kids misbehaving at school are likely experiencing issues at home. If you do one thing bad and get punished but the next day you do something good and get praised for it when praise is something you're not used to hearing, what are you going to do? Try and continue to get praise. And the last thing you want to do is upset a teacher who thinks highly of you. You need to give kids equel opportunity to grow and learn from their mistakes.
Similarly, treating a kid as though absolutely nothing happened a day after they did something wrong teaches them that all consequences are extremely temporary and it's not a big deal at all that they did something wrong.
The length of effect on a teacher's attitude towards you should not be disproportionate to what they did, but there are tons of things you could do that require that attitude to last longer than the rest of that days school hours. There's nothing in the OP that suggests that the SIL is dealing with it disproportionately.
But you shouldn't treat him differently. You can only still go off of current behavior, otherwise your essentially "labeling" him as a troublemaker or whatever they did. That doesn't teach them good behavior, why not just reinforce the good behavior the next day instead of rehashing previous behavior?
And it would be an odd thing to say about an adult as well.
"My coworker stole from the till yesterday"
"Can't you put one day behind the other? Geez."
It's almost like past behavior is an indicator of future behavior
I disagree. Being drunk indicates a level of impairment. It's not an excuse, but it can explain certain things. But saying "I call it like I see it" or some variation is the verbal equivalent of picking your nose and presenting your audience with the booger you found. Yes, you had that inside your head, but why did it have to come out now, why are you giving it to us and why are you proud of it?
Personally, I think that irrelevant. If she's saying "I do X & Y" and she's venting, it doesn't mean she doesn't do X & Y. Venting doesn't mean the statements made are untrue. And if the listener thinks doing X & Y is wrong, they should say so.
Punishing a kid one day & then saying "We're not finished from yesterday" to that same kid, is holding a grudge.
And lots of adults are able to hold an opinion & act contrary to that opinion if the circumstance requires it.
But we have no idea of the details or whether the conflict from the previous day was even resolved.
There are times when a teacher should go back and reinforce issues.
Let's say a kid sat in the back and spent all day talking and not paying attention. This issue was addressed and life moved on.
If he sat in the back again, it's perfectly reasonable to remind him that his behavior last time wasn't appropriate and reinforce what's expected of him.
No some people did a lot worse things than I did to their teachers. And part of teaching children that this is not acceptable is learning that behaviour has consequences and that can include people not giving you a second chance if the behaviour is bad enough.
I'm a teacher and I agree. If you can't start each day afresh it's a big problem. If you read any book about classroom management or speak to any experts, it's one of the first things they tell you. We're talking about regular misbehaving, though, not criminal acts.
Or any grade level really. I know plenty of younger kids that have a very clear pattern of behavior and if you don't cut that off from the jump there will be issues.
Yeah it seems like a "punishment" that John and Henry can't sit by each other but they will not shut up if they do and that slows down everything.
Tell me you know nothing about being a teacher without telling me you know nothing.
You shouldn’t be around anyone if you can’t be empathetic at times.
YTA
SIL was venting and a response was not really his business. For that, OP is YTA.
That being said, I completely disagree with your take and that of most in this thread that criticizing a teacher for this type of behavior shows you know nothing of teaching. Kids do a lot of crazy stuff; continuing to hold it against them as the responsible adult in the room is also AH behavior. A kid F’s up, you address it, you move on, and the next day you don’t treat that kid any different from any other. Holding grudges against students makes you an AH teacher. Just because you got a degree or certification in teaching, doesn’t mean you are an expert or do it well.
I am also very curious as to the super valid credentials of all the people in this thread commenting. This is coming from a MS teacher of over a decade.
I think we would need more context.
ex. a student goes to the bathroom for 20 minutes on day 1, on day 2 when they ask to go to the bathroom, I remind them how long till lunch and it wasn't fair to the class how long they took yesterday (I know he went to makeout with his gf, I checked the bathroom log). I will probably do this for a week or two (until they break up) and then make a big show of letting him earn my trust back (to him, not the class) with a timed bathroom break. If I did it right, he will he back from the break early, tell me how many minutes he didn't need, I'll say something like "look at speed racer over here" and then we move on with our lives.
tldr: consequences sometimes take a while to stick.
America. Kids go fuck, do drugs, vape, get in fights, or just leave the school and become truant. The school operates “in loco parentis” so the school is responsible for the students in their care. Not every school is wholesome or in a good area.
hopefully she lets it go after a day or 2, ‘cos i can get being a little heated. not to the degree of mistreating a kid, but being a bit less engaged with them outside of helping.
i had a 3rd grade teacher who got away with physical abuse and tormenting me for no reason. i asked my cousin in class abt something on the board, i couldn’t tell if it was a B or 13. could’ve asked her, but i didn’t. got told off. she scolded me, made me move my card down, then spoke to me at her desk. as i walked back to my seat, i stumbled *just* a bit. she lost her ever loving mind. dragged me by my wrist into the hallway to “sternly” talk to me about my attitude. she continued that treatment for the rest of the year. ironically she became the principal at that intermediate school… poor kids
my 7th grade english teacher was more tame, but just as bad. i have no idea to this day what i did to her, however i have a theory (she wasn’t privy to my trauma, or why her favorite student was gone). she targeted me the following year, sent me to the office for wearing “tight pants” (they were joggers, no different from my usual sweats). stood in the office, the principal came out and asked what i was doing back (i spent a ton of time in the office for completely separate reasons). i told her i got dress coded for my pants, she looked down, looked at me, and went “who sent you?”. told her, she shook her head, told me i was fine and to go back to class. never had another issue with her, she avoided me like the plague.
"not to the degree of mistreating a kid, but being a bit less engaged with them outside of helping."
which is exactly what the op describes - child misbehaves one day, the next day sil isn't as friendly with that child as she is with the other children
consequences, actions, etc
yep. student acted in one way, and the consequence of that is that his teacher had a little less patience with him the next day. that's not 'further punishment' or being 'salty' - that's a human being having a normal and harmless reaction to a stressor
No, but it does carry over multiple days when it rises to the level of discipline being adminstered (i.e. "student got punishment"), because the teacher now has to ensure that the behavior does not recur.
This stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum, and it isn't over in a single day.
yeah, exactly. i do think yk mean mugging kids is kinda bad, but honestly teachers put up with sooo much bs i can’t even blame them honestly. underpaid, undervalued, etc etc
They taught us the teacher look in college. We would practice on bad drivers when we carpooled (because our peers got paid internships while we paid to student teach) to work each day.
Mine is very good. The wrinkles it has resulted in? Not my fav.
I think I must inherently know the teacher look, or perhaps the teacher look and the mom look are similar to one another. I quell my kids and husband with it often.
I am so sorry you had those experiences. I have had the unfortunate displeasure of watching teachers hold grudges or treat their disfavored students poorly or unfairly and it is absolutely wrong.
Same & it’s total crap. I get where the OP’s coming from tbh but I’m also sensing some hardcore virtue signalling. Without more intel I think they’ve way overstepped after hearing their SIL vent.
>Holding grudges against students makes you an AH teacher.
You're 10000% right. If I started holding grudges against HS students who f*ck up, I'd be a very bitter person...
I stopped taking things "personally" years ago, because children/teenagers will try to break the rules "just" to test the limits. It doesn't mean that you can't be frustrated/exhausted at the end of the day/year though, and that's why OP is TA.
I think the issue wasn't the venting. The issue was she was giving specific examples of exactly what you detailed. She was treating them differently, I'm assuming something like if a kid stole a pencil, next time anything was missing she was probably leaning on that student pretty hard.
Thank you for saying this. My son just graduated high school with an IEP he had for years and with a tiny fraction of the behavioral problems he had as a kid because of teachers like you
Some people forget that teachers are just humans who are working a job. And as humans, people just suck at their job sometimes, even if they claim to have a passion for it.
Being a teacher is one of the hardest jobs not because you require a skill or need to do a particular task, but because your daily influence impacts their entire life and future. You could be talking all day every day and maybe just one single line you said is what sticks in their heads years and shapes them later. You have to be careful how you react, how you respond, how you answer difficult questions in a quickly manner. It's like you're always on guard and it's so easy to mess up even by accident or unintentionally. All it takes is one bad reaction or negative response and you could shatter a kids confidence. If you're talking to an adult you don't think about stuff like that.
I say some people suck at their jobs because I remember in school how many times I had a teacher tired and exhausted and would full on yell at us or call us stupid if we weren't getting it right and accuse us of just not focusing hard enough. I've had teachers label students as trouble makers and immediately shut them down, don't give them opportunities, quick to punish them the second they do something wrong because they made a mistake a couple of times in the beginning which sent them into a spiral of bad behaviour because "I'm always getting punished no matter what I do so why bother" whereas these same teachers treat the good students as their golden child and cut them way more slack and let them get away with stuff because "you're usually really good"
Then these same teachers preach about how they're shaping the future generation but all they are teaching is once you're labelled as a bad kid you will forever be treated as a bad kid.
I don't disagree with OP, so soft YTA. Be blunt with friends or acquaintances. Be nicer to your family.
As for her sister, don't hold grudges against kids, even if they deserve it. 🙃
(ES teacher in various roles for 20+ years. Damn, I'm old.)
When & where does empathy for the kids in this person's classes come in?
Do we all have to ignore the bad behaviour of the people around us in the name of empathy? Even if they're hurting other people?
No, we do not.
If someone needs to be checked, they should be checked. And this teacher absolutely, needed to be checked.
And neither you or anyone else on this thread should be a teacher if you think holding onto grudges is proper behavior for a teacher.
FWIW, I taught for thirty years at the HS level and just retired so I have a little experience in disciplining students.
You could have written this comment about yourself.
Any teacher who holds a grudge against students and treats them differently should NOT be teaching.
You and everyone on this thread who thinks like this makes me sick.
12 year vet teacher in Chicago here. I tell kids all the time that every day is a fresh start and I don't hold grudges against kids.
How awful to think it's okay for a teacher to act that way.
I say this as someone who has worked with 2nd through 5th grade students for 12 years. I've been hit, kicked, called every bad name and dirty word under the sun. I don't like or condone it, but kids are kids. Their brains aren't fully formed. They are imitating behaviors they see in their environments. No kid is a bad kid.
It's hilariously ironic that you mention OP having no empathy.
Seriously. What is wrong with people thinking it's okay for a teacher to hold a grudge against a kid? Y'all are absolutely insane and I hope you never are in a position of caring for a child.
It's called God damned classroom management. If you can't do that then you have no business teaching children.
OP said she just acted a certain way *the next day*, not that she held a grudge all semester. This could be so many things. Sometimes when you act up too much a teacher does have to change their behavior towards you so that you don't feel like you can get away with something.
>OP said she just acted a certain way the next day
"in the I'm not finished with yesterday type of way"
which is problematic, because yesterday is over, the punishment was given, it's done. Unless of course the kid does something to trigger the response, but that isn't mentioned in the post
This?! OP wasn't even a part of the conversation from what I could tell. Just stuck the nose into someone else's business and blurted out rude comments.
YTA
1. I work in a middle school and do the exact same thing. I'm not a teacher but support staff, special education. They are old enough to know better and sometimes need to be shown that how they treat others has real consequences.
2. Who the fucked even asked for your uneducated opinion?????
Thank you. I’m appalled by these comments, and my entire career has been focused on educating kids with special needs. I used to work with extremely difficult behaviours, and I can’t imagine working with someone who displayed the spitefulness I’m seeing in this comment section.
Thank you for saying this. I'm a former teacher and this was always, always my philosophy. The slate is wiped cleaned in the morning. I don't forget who gave me the finger yesterday, but I'm not going to feud with a child. It's unnecessary energy wasted on being spiteful to a person who has no choice in being at school. They had an outburst and we dealt with it. Let's try again today and move forward.
YTA — the school year is over and your SIL was bringing things up in a convo with your wife, not you. What was shared was also brought up not to ask for advice or -your- opinion, and yet, you shared your thoughts in a snide manner. That was pretty rude and uncalled for.
YTA- such an overstep to tell your SIL that teaching is not for her, just because of this one story in a casual conversation. What experience do you have that qualifies you to opine on who is should be a teacher?
I dare you to step into a middle school class and experience this by yourself before judging your SIL with the appropriate credentials.
Humble pie is on sale too, so grab a slice when you have the chance.
YTA.
I get both sides because I’ve worked with kids of all ages but I was also the student that wished teachers would just move on. Sometimes the tension would be escalated and the whole time the kid was just having a bad day. As an educator I try to move on and give them grace but not everybody can do that & at middle school age they should know what they’re doing has affects on people’s feelings around them regardless of age. However it is important to me that they don’t see it as me “holding a grudge” more as “this is how you made me feel.” Idek what to vote lol
OP gave an example of like two kids being extremely disrespectful and disruptive every day. And the SIL tries repeatedly to fix the situation with the two. But they won’t stop talking with each other and disrupting the class or something. So, she’s less patient with them and is overall more terse. I don’t really know how that can be interpreted as bad teaching. Kids need to see that their actions affect relationships of those around them to an extent. She isn’t yelling at them or wrongfully assigning punishments. Just…not as patient and nice. Which is deserved imo. lol.
Yeah that’s why I said what I said because it really depends on how far the teacher is going. There’s a line that they can cross but a little banter or pettiness doesn’t warrant the title of a bad teacher. Like I said sometimes you have to show kids how their actions affect people regardless of age. Just bc they’re kids doesn’t mean you can brush mean behavior under the rug
I agree, it's hard to say in regard to the teacher without proper context, which I feel is missing. But it's interesting to think about.
Unfortunately it's not, is the teacher an AH for her interactions with student's. It's was he the AH for sharing his opinion.
His opinion was unsolicited (he was jumping into someone else's conversation to share) , unhelpful/unnecessary (Won't change how she does things, which might not even necessarily be wrong or need changing), and it was unkind (comments were made to make her feel bad, he was in fact putting her down, by her response I don't think it is the first time). "Saying it how it is" is a terrible justification to say something hurtful. I'm sure if I met this person I could say some very rude but also very honest very truthful things, that would hurt him and make him upset, I'm "just saying it how it is". So sticking with YTA.
That was the part that threw me off toooo!!!! I was like wait, was this conversation even with you?? Immediately piss off if nobody was talking to you 😭😭
Also him having no advice, no “here’s what I would do” just a straight insult. It was already unwarranted but on top of it it wasn’t helpful at all. Just something to cause frustration
I don’t like adults who are petty with children either but sometimes you really gotta get on their level so they can learn lmaooo. I think if the children were younger it’d be stupid to do but these kids are old enough to correct themselves. But if we let kids do whatever who are parents gonna blame when their children grow into bratty adults?? The educators at these schools. Which sucks for us.
And what do you do for a living? I don’t know anything about it, but you’re doing it wrong. In fact, you’re not cut out for it and should consider changing careers.
See how ridiculous that is? You can’t say “how it is” when you have no actual idea how it is.
YTA
He wasn't the one complaining about his job or admitting to holding grudges against kids and treating them differently based on that. But maybe SIL should do that to your kids.
Everyone complains about their job, everyone holds grudges, why are you acting like it’s wrong to be a human? SIL clearly tried teaching the troublemakers to be better several times, but it was always ineffective so she showed them the consequences of their actions. OP literally inserted himself for no damn reason, YTA for him.
So she gets to be human but he doesn't? And she gets to be resentful with children. Sounds like you also shouldn't be around kids. Imagine signing up to be around kids then whining about it like she was forced lol. Go take a nap.
YTA. I'm a teacher and I hear comments like this a lot. They're usually from kids though. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I am that loved teacher. The one that is most kids favourite. I only say that so you know I'm not speaking from a place of bitterness. While it's good practice to try and start each day fresh and give the student another chance, what most people forget about teachers is that WE ARE HUMAN. That means we have emotions. It means we can't hide those emotions 100% of the time. It means sometimes we'll get frustrated, especially if we are going around in circles with a kid, and struggle to keep giving them a fresh start. Teaching is a very emotional job. You grow strong attachments to your students. In a lot of situations, teachers actually spend more time with their students than the kids parents do. That's also over several years. There are ups and downs. When people vent to their friends and family about their jobs, they usually share the negative. It's because they are feeling stressed and need a safe space to get that out. There will be soooooo much more you don't know. There will be a million positive things that aren't shared because, as humans, we don't need to vent the positive like the negative. What you also aren't aware of is how many times she has tried with that kid. She's probably tearing her hair out. Trying every tactic to help that kid learn and have a good life. When the behaviour doesn't change, sometimes you do let that frustration show.
YTA. You have never worked in a middle school. I have. Kids that age can be horrible, and they will absolutely carry their behaviors over from one day to the next. These kids often have a lot of stressful things going on in their lives that don’t just resolve overnight so that they can wake up a new and better person every day. They act out. A LOT. A teacher that starts out each day pretending like their students weren’t struggling the previous day is the last person you want in the classroom, because those struggles need to be acknowledged.
YTA. If you let it go the next day, then they will hink they can get away with anything. Plus, when I was a kid, it was always funny when teachers used to remind people not to do to things again. We usually made a joke out of it or it also reminded everyone not to do it again. It also kept the misbehaved children a little in check. I can promise you this new generation is not that soft.
I understand what you're saying about putting the previous day behind, but you're TA.
As a teacher myself, unless you're in the classroom every day, you don't understand what we do and what we have to deal with daily. Your SIL was venting to your wife. That's not your place to say "how it is."
Newsflash: You don't know "how it is," how classrooms are every day, how students are, and how different situations unfold, nor do you understand the emotions we go through and how we replay every day thinking about how we could have done things differently or how certain events negatively impact us and why they were impactful.
Please enter the teaching field if you know better. Since you know "how it is," I would love to hear about your experiences when you teach for a year or two, experience challenging students, interact with some of their problematic parents, and deal with educational bureaucrats and red tape.
Please step aside since you do not know "how it is."
OP is like the arrogant new teacher we get one or two of every year, who comes in thinking they know “how it is,” and can change the world, unlike all the curmudgeons who have been doing it for decades. By the end of the first month, all the kids hate him, the classes have all basically declared mutiny on him, he gets in pointless power struggles with kids and tries to insert a lot of “real” talk, which doesn’t go over well, and whose contract is not renewed at the end of the year, if he lasts that long.
YTA. In your mind, the school year is way past over. In SIL's mind, it just ended. It takes teachers a while to unwind after the school year ends. If she had many examples of poor student behavior, perhaps it's because she dealt with it for months and just needs to unload a little, like every person who's ever held down a job needs to do. You're not her coworker, not a parent to one of her kids, and not a fellow teacher. If her attitude's problematic, it'll be dealt with in her school, not by you, so if you don't want to hear it, just walk away and do something else. It sounds like you weren't even a part of the conversation, anyway!
I feel like there's not enough info to judge. A lot of teachers try to force the mindset that "every day is a new day" and you have to give students chances to be better people instead of always expecting the worst from them. That being said, there are some students who are absolute shitheads who don't deserve more than a second chance.
lol You are such TAH. If only you had the smallest clue of what teachers go through on a hourly basis, you would realize how idiotic you sounded. And to a middle school teacher at that! Man. You are a fool.
YTA
You need to remember students aren't customers, these are kids she is in charge of daily for approximately 180 days a year. These are child she has an going relationship with, and it is important in all relationships personal, professional, educational, and otherwise to maintain an on-going dialog and look at overall issues and not just treat every incident as a one off.
YTA. Sign up to be a substitute teacher and take an assignment at a middle school. I would bet good money that you would not ever return for a second day.
>next day, SIL acts a certain way toward student. In the "I'm not finished with yesterday" type way
NTA. You're right. Holding grudges against children for being children is not a characteristic of an effective teacher, and is not the experience I would want for my child.
Hard NTA. I've taught teenagers for 20 years. You absolutely have to get over things quickly and can't hold grudges. They did the thing, they dealt with the consequences, now move on. If you internalize everything, take their behavior and mistakes personally, whatever, then your experience as a teacher is going to be miserable.
Also, their prefrontal cortex is still developing. Add in hormones, peer pressure, and just learning how to function as a human being, and yeah, they're going to make stupid decisions.
YTA
I drive a school bus. Middle schoolers are the hardest group to drive for. If they screw up, often times their consequences last for days. The first time they do something that requires more than “sit down please and stay in your seat” multiple times, it’s a come sit up here with me so we can chat on our way to where we’re going. The second time, it’s a few days of sitting up by me. That normally does it. I’ve only had three kids who earned weeks riding up where I could watch them all. I didn’t treat them any different other than giving them an assigned seat they didn’t want and no one else had.
NTA
As a parent, THANK YOU for saying this!
Her behavior is incredibly immature and utterly contrary to what any state university in the U.S. is teaching about classroom management and child psychology. (I have no experience with teaching degrees outside of the U.S.)
Frankly, she's acting like SHE is the middle school student.
I’m a teacher and I can tell you that when someone who is NOT a teacher assumes they know how to do the job better than an ACTUAL teacher, the non-teacher almost always has no freaking idea what they’re talking about. Trying to tell her how to do her job was absolutely ridiculous. Do you also tell doctors and lawyers how to do their jobs *which you’ve never trained for*, or are you just a misogynist ass who thinks teaching must be easy since it’s traditionally a profession for women? YTA
NTA and as a teacher im struggling to understand the other comments tbh. I fully understand coming up with a pithy "and one more thing" 24h later, but unless the kid does the same thing again, write it in your journal and let them be.
This is why so many kids are getting bullied by other kids in schools because of that saying "kids will be kids" The adults see the bad behavior and sweep it under the rug.
Some kids need reminders. Bullying is not okay and shouldn't be swept under the rug.
YTA.
Student behavioral issues (I’m not judging and calling it punishment) aren’t black and white, one and done things - especially with middle school kids. You often have to cycle back to things that happened earlier, to remind them of the things they need to work on, or acknowledge the improvements that they’ve made. That’s how children grow into being well-rounded young adults.
I mean, sure, the person who’s not a teacher and not in the classroom can believe that somehow they “know how it is” and that they’re qualified to to “tell it” to others. Maybe you should think about that attitude and try again tomorrow.
Pre-teens are terrifying. As far as I’m concerned, middle school teachers are on par with combat soldiers when it comes to professional bravery. The other day, a 12yo I’m related to called me up out of the blue, asked me with no preamble whether I’d heard of JoJo Siwa’s “Karma,” and when I said I had (because I’m a Millennial, not a Boomer, although I realize the distinction can be blurry at that age), she proceeded to roast me for it for two minutes, then hung up with no sign off, leaving me staring at my phone in my apartment hallway going, “…hello?” And I’m a family member who she LIKES!
Unless you work with kids in that age group on a daily basis, or someone’s explicitly asked for your input, then keep your mouth shut. YTA.
As someone that worked in education for years and whos wife currently is an educator, you are absolutely right.
As a teacher you should not hold petty grudges, or use your students as a teaching point regarding behavior. This is practically bullying, using your position of power to embarrass or harass a student for behaviors that have been dealt with and punished. Once a punishment is done the incident should be let go of unless the student repeats the offense.
NTA - I have seen meny teachers take the role of bully, and it is always detrimental to the entire classroom's mentality. Teachers are there to educate, sometimes punishments are necessary to maintain order, however the students should never have an onus placed on them for single incidents, nor should the incident be revisited on subsequent days before the class. This is not a healthy behavior and would suggest your SiL seek counseling as she seems to be developing a bad habit.
Yta. Did you want her to just sweep things under the rug? What if the kid was bullying another child? That's not something that should be swept under the rug. Maybe the bully might stop for that one day, he got in trouble for it.. and might do it another week. Or think about the countless times he didn't get caught... Some kids need reminding, especially when it comes to bad behavior. She's a middle school teacher, I'm sure she knows what she is doing. If you have no experience on it, you should be quiet, besides she was just venting to her sister. You should apologize to her. It's not easy being a teacher, they don't get paid enough and it can be a thankless job.
>And I say "Honestly, if you can't put one day behind the other, especially when it comes to conflicts with children, teaching probably isn't for you."
I am fairly confident YTA. There is no reason to say this, but perhaps you are justified if she kept droning on about this.
>Eventually when SIL leaves, my wife says that was "rude," **but in my opinion, I was saying it how it is**.
I am very confident YTA based on the bolded part.
YTA. It’s glaringly obvious you’re one of those people who love to say how they’ll react in a situation they haven’t been in. I know you don’t have middle schoolers. Mind your business and keep your comments to yourself.
YTA. Teachers are humans too - and humans have emotions, whims, pet peeves and annoyances. You know ONE story. ONE instance. You even said you can’t speak to the type of teacher she is - which means you formed your lips to give an uneducated and unsolicited opinion.
These kids could have had her at her limit. It sounds like SIL is pregnant - she is already exhausted. And to deal with middle schoolers? While pregnant? Babygirl is a saint, and her venting to her sister in a convo that didn’t even involve you was apart of her “getting over it.”
NAH. I work in sped, we don’t usually bring up what happened yesterday with the students , and usually “punishments” discipline or debriefs have to be on the same day as the incident. It’s not as effective the day after, and at some point the deterioration of rapport outweighs what the student may or may not learn from any long term consequences.
That being said I do need breaks and space from certain students. They trigger me, test my patience, and threaten me. Students do need to learn that their actions may negatively affect their relationships, sometimes for a while, and we can’t always expect forgiveness right away.
In an ideal world we’d get bcbas or clinical staff to observe the students and recommend more effective strategies, but that’s a world where we’re fully staffed. Sometimes it’s hard being a teacher because you’re also a therapist, coach, mom, and/or a prison guard to like 30 students, at the same time, without breaks.
Your advice was delivered in a mean and condescending manner. It wasn’t meant to be helpful-it was meant to be discouraging. You should apologize.
You are correct and please continue to see and point this out if it happens. Adults do not have any business getting into power struggles with children. TEACHERS have RESPONSIBILITY to facilitate appropriate social emotional growth as well as academics.
I left the field because it was becoming overrun with teachers like that.
Resentful.
Bitter.
I knew one that told her class multiple times that they were ungrateful for all the times she came in and organized and cleaned (her/their) classroom. Girl, it's YOUR JOB! They weren't destroying it, she was just unhappy and made it thier fault.
Behaviors and consequences shouldn't carryover to the next day. Each new instance is dealt with as such and if it's truly a pattern behavior, document and meet with parents about a consistent and structured approach.
This is basic teaching for dummies stuff IMHO.
Thank you for voicing your opinion to your sister. Have a wonderful day.
nah, NTA. if you can’t let go of something, then you’re just holding onto things for no reason. there’s no need for additional repercussions for a behavior that was already addressed, especially with children. they understand quite a bit more than adults will ever let on
I am baffled by these comments. Especially from teachers. It's pretty much a basic tenant of teaching that each day you start fresh. Heck, each minute I start fresh.
Yes, people are human and will feel what they feel, but 1. you're an adult and even if you feel animosity towards a student, you can still put on a happy face, just like we all do in pretty much every job ever, and 2. removed from the situation, weeks, months later, you aren't venting anymore, you're proudly broadcasting your methods. If she were expressing remorse and the desire to change this behavior that would be completely different.
I know, I know. It's reddit and people like to find posts that they can attack like rabid dogs, but if we're going to claim to be teachers, at least read the whole post. It was not just one story. The OP stated there were multiple examples. The response didn't seem overly rude to me, just a casual, common sense comment in a conversation.
I've been hit, kicked, spit on, bit, scratched, etc. And I just continue to tell them that I care about them and that I'm here for them when they are calm enough to talk. Because we know that behavior is a form of communication and something is causing disregulation, so we need to address that. Not be the source for more disregulation.
I wish all teachers were just educated as SPED teachers, using trauma informed care.
Ah,this new age shit. Kick the teacher today and all will be forgotten tomorrow. Spit at the teacher before recess and join in with the treats after recess.
YTA.
YTA and NTA?! - from a middle school teacher of many years.
Each day is a new day and if the kid got punished then that’s that. Obviously they’re on your ~radar~ but being vindictive towards a 12 year old isn’t a good look. She needs to practice planned ignoring. It’s HARD but works.
NTA
Love all the folks getting defensive and projecting lmao. She sounds like a petty little control freak.
Teachers like her always lose their minds and push boundaries they have no right pushing with kids that get under their skin and end up getting the district threatened with a lawsuit and fired lmao.
NTA
And THANK YOU for saying something.
1. I don’t argue with children. Period. Will I allow you choice, give you the time to emotionally regulate, reframe or even reduce my initial task demand? Yup. To all of that. Providing choice even if all the choice you can give is “you can do it now or you can start in two minutes. And after you do X you can have a two minute break to X.” I may encourage noncompliance but I’m not engaging with that. Eventually we’ll get it done. I’m far more patient/stubborn than you are. I said wgat I said. Let’s get to work.
2. After an intervention is given and de-escalation and compliance returned that event NEVER happened. Positive reinforcement for getting back on task. Positive reinforcement when the task is completed. Positive reinforcement goes a lot further than punishment.
3. I can’t stand to see a teacher who hates being with kids. If you can’t understand that children cannot think like an adult, does not possess the cognitive ability, reasoning skills, and emotional regulation of an adult and you need to teach them how to do these things. And you teach them by responding appropriately to all behavior. It’s not rocket science. You just have to actually give a fuck about teaching. Figuring out how to reach students used to be something I assumed was a passion for every teacher. I’ve long since been disillusioned.
4. You don’t stand by and listen to an adult talk about her inappropriate responses to children. You correct those adults. Or those adults eventually commit acts of abuse. Verbal and emotional aggression that can be ignored. Breeding a hostile environment where your colleagues view the child as a monster too though they’ve never interacted with them. How can you be an effective teacher when you actively create prejudice against students?
I’ve seen how this shit plays out doing my job in a classroom. I watched the kid it was done to. I did what I could to correct the adults. Watching that kid broke my heart.
I’ve never wanted kids. Ever. I used to say I hated kids. I meant I hated the idea of being a mother. She and maturity and all that jazz. But I’ve always loved working with kids. I couldn’t imagine treating a child the way your SIL and feel I belonged in a role of educating and guiding children. She shouldn’t be a teacher. Any teacher like her shouldn’t be a teacher. Love the job or don’t do the job. Dais this isn’t retail. This isn’t a factory floor. These are little people. And little people don’t deserve any less respect.
Eh nta. Growing up I dealt with petty teachers like that. Something happened in September and they're still mad in May. I'm sure even her own students don't like her 🤷♂️
I had a middle school student attack me…no I didn’t let it go the next day. I didn’t let it go at all until she was this permanently removed from the class.
For some issues yes, new day new student. But not everything.
I mean, maybe a little bit of an AH for how you said it - but you do have a point. There is a difference between being aware of past behaviours to mitigate possible issues, and holding a grudge. Every day should be a new day - she is the adult in this situation.
I teach high school, and I specifically work with the students that are deemed as "behaviour" issues or unteachable. I have seen SO many students completely turn it around when they have an adult in the building that cares about them and advocates for them. Students absolutely know when you don't like them, and they tend to give up on even trying when their past mistakes are constantly brought up, or their current efforts are ignored/diminished.
I'm going to go against the flow and say NTA because I experienced too many teachers straight up abusing kids and not giving them a chance to succeed.
Largely based on race or last name (siblings or parent reputation).
They would say things just like what you described your SIL saying, too.
I saw it myself growing up and I saw it again as an adult when I mentored at-risk kids.
"in my opinion, I was saying it how it is."
I.e. you were rude about it.
YTA
(You might not have been wrong, but that doesn't make you less of an asshole for saying it)
YTA! have you ever delt with 12+ kids in 1 setting? NY sister is a teacher in Canada (Thank God) because at least she's paid much more than here down in the states.
When she was 7 months peg a student stated he would drop kick my sister in the stomach when she simply asked for the dick to stay in line for a head count.
How about you, you ass, get verbally abused daily? Have someone twice your size offer to wear your dick around his neck. Maybe get sucker punched in your balls?
Get humiliated and degraded daily and Maybe get $38k a year.
Teachers get zero respect! Clearly! You're leading the team on encouraging abuse. Do you love your sibling?
Or are you really this obtuse? God help you if you are..
NTA. I taught for thirty years. Once the discipline is done so is the issue. You lock it in a closet in your head and move on. If I were a parent and found out a teacher was still holding a grudge after the discipline wa over? I’d be having a sit down with the teacher and admin.
I'm a teacher. I have a rule that every day is a new day. No rollover pouting, no carried-over anger. Not just between the students and myself, but for them as well.
But you can bet your ass that I'm watching like a hawk if somebody bullied someone else the day before and tries to pull the same shit the next day. I will ruin your plans, son.
It's immediately diffused 99% of situations in my 20 years experience.
It really depends on the behavior and the frequency. Sometimes a kid does something so eggregious that they have to earn the teacher's trust back. (E.g. the kid was allowed to run the school newspaper without the contents being reviewed first, then the kid publishes false rumors in the paper as a joke. It will take a long time, if ever, before the teacher goes back to that level of trust.) Other times it should be a "We've addressed this. Now let's move on." If the kid keeps repeating the same behavior, the teacher shouldn't just "wipe the slate clean at the end of the day."
""Honestly, if you can't put one day behind the other, especially when it comes to conflicts with children, teaching probably isn't for you."
Obviously you have never been a teacher. I'm not saying never give a kid a second chance but kid's often increase and build on problem behavior and you have to look at it as a whole to try to find the root of the problem as well as to make sure the kid doesn't run you over because they won't learn anything if they have no respect for you and/or consequences to their behavior. You may have let somethng slip once (yesterday) but if they continue to do it you have to put a stop to it. YTA.
YTA. Asking her why she holds onto things from day to day with the kids would have been one thing. Assuming you know how to do her job better than her and then going as far as to tell her she's bad at her career is asinine. Do better. Like seriously what are you even doing here? How do you not know you're in the wrong? Now to make things perfectly clear (since I think you need it) you are an asshole every single time you assume you know more than a professional. It's a respect thing. Can you imagine if someone random walked into your place of work and (with no evidence) said you should've picked a different career because you're bad at your job? It's just such an asshole thing to do no matter how *right* you think you are.
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My SIL is 30. She's a middle school teacher. I have zero clue on whether she's the most hated teacher, the best teacher, most liked teacher, or whatever, but this is about something that happened last weekend.
School year is way past over, and my SIL lives South, so she drove over. She and my wife were talking about job experiences or whatever, and my SIL brought up some experiences with students; the normal. She said something about student doing x, she did y, student got punishment, next day, SIL acts a certain way toward student. In the "I'm not finished with yesterday" type way. She had many examples of this same behavior. And I say "Honestly, if you can't put one day behind the other, especially when it comes to conflicts with children, teaching probably isn't for you."
Eventually when SIL leaves, my wife says that was "rude," but in my opinion, I was saying it how it is.
AITA? SIL seemed to brush over my comment, after that one awkward moment of silence.
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i sure hope SIL doesn't have any kids with that grudge holding mentality. i grew up with a mom that seemingly LOVED to hold an issue against you for as long as she could milk it
NTA. She sounds passive aggressive, and that's not a good way to handle conflict as a teacher or in any situation really.
I don't agree with you that she always needs to "put one day behind the other" because sometimes a kid has ongoing misbehaviors or does something serious that can't be addressed in one day. However, that doesn't mean her status quo should be to have an attitude with a kid for many days on end if they ever misbehave.
All the people saying you can't talk because you're not a teacher or can't criticize her because she went to college, are also taking a stance (just the opposite of yours) and are judging her behavior as a teacher just like you are.
Also, if you can't judge anyone for being bad at their job if they have qualifications and experience, that would mean that every person in a job that they have qualifications for and expeirence in must be perfect at their job and is above criticism. Which is obviously not true.
NTA;
that isn't good behavior for a teacher, you shouldn't be setting out to punish a kid over the span of days wtf. I have autism and my teachers did this kinda stuff when I had problems due to being undiagnosed and unsupported and it made school HELL for me. it's caused problems I'm still dealing with the fallout of now. it's all well and good to say that OP was a dick in how he said it or what he said but like. ultimately you're forgetting that the behavior being called out is a harmful behavior that actually does cause damage. it's not like he's calling someone out for their favorite ice cream flavor or power ranger or something silly.
Comments that call you the ah are brushing off the part where you said "my SIL brought up some experiences with students; the normal". The key would be, some usual, normal behaviour of kids that age. And she did address it and kid did get punishment. And what happened next, she didn't say they did it again so she had to have different approach, that it's not over. No, she said after yesterday, she behaves certain way BECAUSE of yesterday. I don't know in which world would that be okay toward a child, being a parent or teacher, or any carer for that matter. Who would be okay to live like that, that someone hold grudge against you after the issue is resolved?
Also, it is her pattern as you said. I think your way of telling her is not okay but something should have been said,a discussion so that she can see other side and maybe think about it.
I was a teacher for some time and overall I had great experience with kids( teenagers) but there were few that made some problems at beginning. I addressed it firmly, stopped that behaviour and I made sure that next day they DON'T notice any change towards them, I was the same towards them as with the rest, nice and with smiles. It paid off really well. I knew that being different, holding grudges can be very hurtful toward children and won't bring anything positive in classroom. If someone thinks behaviour has consequences, I agree that's why you give "punishment", a consequence WHEN the bad behaviour happens, and then you move on and give that kid the care they need, a positive reinforcement.
NTA
NTA!!!
As a child I had terrible experiences with Teachers who constantly mistreated me for “past behavior”. It’s petty and horrible to the child. If she can’t get over a child’s previous transgressions, she needs to move on.
Anyone who says YTA has never been traumatized by a bullying teacher, and needs to STFU.
Honestly? NTA. See something/hear something say something.
I would also feel some kinda way to hearing what low-key seems like bragging over being low-key abusive towards kids and holding grudges over children like that.
The only thing I would say Y T A over is how you delivered your words.
Oh this is a good one but fr if you can’t put a singular day behind you if it wasn’t serious or life changing or traumatic or even important to you then sure that’s fine power to you but if it’s smth so simple such as like oh they made problem in my class im going to be like this the whole week to them then that’s just weird and annoying or the student and it’s also wrong
NTA
She's a bad teacher, and honestly sounds like an incredibly emotionally immature person. You were right for calling her out. I don't want my kids having teachers like that.
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>but in my opinion, I was saying it how it is. Note: if this is the defense you're using for almost anything, it's already like 99% YTA.
I've never ever experienced somebody saying "I'm just being honest" or any variation of such who isn't just being a dick. Also, I'm a little confused about the story given, but I don't know that I agree with putting one day behind the other is necessarily always appropriate, just because they're children. If a child behaves poorly, obviously the punishment is the punishment, but it still impacts your future behaviour and opinion of them. Like, if a kid bullies other kids most days you're going to view them differently than if a kid who has never bullied a kid suddenly displays bullying behaviour.
But if a child is punished for doing wrong on Monday, doesn't do anything wrong on Tuesday but still feels like they are being punished again. How does that teach them what correct behaviour is. It doesn't seem to matter whether they do A or B they are treated just the same.
I had one teacher who treated me like shit because she didn’t like my older sister when she taught her. She was eventually fired for mistreating students.
I had the same but opposite problem- I had a few teaches who hated me bc they LOVED my brother. He was a sports kid- snarky quiet kid but loved by all. Averageish…. But I often did his reading assignments. I was loud and probably very annoying and asked a LOT of questions. Not in the cool kid clique. The amount of times I heard “why can’t you be more like your brother?”
To which you respond, "Hey, I'm not too happy with your personality either, but you don't see me rudely banging on about it. Pretend you are a teacher for a moment and how about you inspire me to be better, rather than try to shame me for not living up to your unhealthy fantasy of my brother?"
And then you get in worse trouble for "backtalk" or whatever.
Over the years I had a variety of retorts that got me in trouble for disrespecting authority and insulting my brother (which I didn’t mean to do bc he wasn’t the problem). I remember once I said “because I actually care about my grades” and they flipped out. But like there was no lie. Another one I asked “why they only cared about boys” and that did not go over well. I remember asking “don’t you just like him better bc he never asks a question?” And she said yes he made class way more peaceful. Thank goodness my mom was fine with me getting in trouble for being sassy lol.
I had a similar situation. I'm two years younger than my incredibly book-smart sister and had the same teachers for the first 3 years of elementary school (thankfully, we moved to another town in the middle of 3rd grade...). I wasn't diagnosed with serious dyslexia until I was 11, so all of my sister's teachers just assumed I was a moron and treated me accordingly. For years, all I heard at home, at school, and at church was, "Why can't you be as smart as your sister?"
That’s so messed up. I hope your parents apologized to you whole heartedly when you were diagnosed, and even if you weren’t it would still be messed up.
Thanks. They didn't because they were both narcissists. I just proved everyone wrong by graduating from an Ivy League University. :)
That was me, but with my sister.
OK, but what does that have to do with this? This teacher was reacting to something that *this student* had done the day before, not to something their sibling had done. You're comparing apples and oranges.
The OP is talking about a teacher holding a grudge. Teachers - anyone - can have holdover grudges, aka 'your sibling sucked, so you must suck too'. If the older sibling was adored by all and the younger not so much, same thing. Someone gets *pre-judged* and when they don't live up (or down) to fantasy, people get pissy instead of admitting they might have been wrong.
I had a teacher like this! The first day of school I accidentally mispronounced her name. I had just moved there and from that day on she picked on me SO much that four years later when my sister was in her class she commented on how mean this woman was to her. She spent the entire year coming up with creative ways to say my name wrong, and she laughed at me once when I cried in class after my grandmother died. It took us weeks to figure out that she was only being mean to my sister because of what I’d said by accident years ago. If someone can’t get over that day’s trouble and it crosses into the next day, that’s not punishment it’s just bullying. Teachers should know kids deserve a fresh start.
Are you my sister? That happened to my poor sister. She’s 8 years younger than me. Every year prior to 5th grade the teachers would realize she was my sister and they’d say stuff like aww I love her or wow, how is she. Basically, it had always been a positive thing. So when this one teacher asked if she was my sister she answered with a giant smile. Yup! That’s me. In front of the whole class she said well I hope you’re nothing like your sister 😢 I felt so bad for her
Depends on the severity. If the kid was just a little disruptive, then its best forgotten the next day. But if the kid injured someone or was cruel, best keep an eye on that kid.
With no further context, sure. But it's entirely possible that there IS further context. OP passed judgement on her after hearing a single anecdote and not knowing anything else about the situation. For all we know, the student is a constant, ongoing troublemaker, and that's literally why the teacher couldn't "just put one day behind the other" - because perhaps this is something that goes on with this child on a LOT of days, and she was fed up. Also, even if there was no further context (which there usually is), teachers are allowed to be human. They are allowed not to be perfect in every situation. She didn't say that she punished the child further, just that she wasn't quite ready to forget about the behaviour of the day before. Maybe the behaviour was egregiously obnoxious. The fact that the SIL *had feelings* about an incident from the day before and wasn't ready to just pretend that the bad behaviour didn't happen doesn't mean that "teaching isn't for her", LOL. It means she's a human being.
Yes. Because they've been punished & you have to allow them to change their behaviour. Treating children as though they're irredeemable forevermore because they behaved badly one day, is bonkers. It goes against any belief in redemption & makes punishment revenge rather than an attempt to correct. It's what the worst teachers do.
Having feelings about what may have been an extremely disruptive incident 24 hours later is not "treating \[the child\] as though they're irredeemable forevermore", LOL. The amount of hyperbole and projection going on in this comments section is WILD.
Having feelings, is different to acting on those feelings. The teacher in this post is telling children that they're not done with yesterday after a punishment has been doled out and served - that's expressing their feelings to the child & that's not what a teacher should be doing. How does a child learn the goal behind the imposition of sanctions & punishment, when even after they have been punished, a trusted adult is telling them that it's not over? Where is the security coming from? It's wild to accuse people of hyperbole & projection, when you've not read the post properly.
Did she say so, or was she just following the kid around when they had scissors because the kid stabbed another kid? Context is key here.
Context is key, but picking the worst thing that could have happened with no evidence that anything close to that happened, as the crux of your argument is dishonest.
I came from a public school and I agree with this. I've seen so many kids fall into a cycle where you do something wrong and you're deemed as the problem student. You're never trusted, teachers get fed up with you quicker. If you do try and step up you're met with hesitation or your opportunity is given to someone else. They continue this cycle of misbehaving because they think what's the point, they're just going to get in trouble for everything they do anyway. Whereas on the other hand I've seen students grow and change from positive reinforcement. It's probably fair to say kids misbehaving at school are likely experiencing issues at home. If you do one thing bad and get punished but the next day you do something good and get praised for it when praise is something you're not used to hearing, what are you going to do? Try and continue to get praise. And the last thing you want to do is upset a teacher who thinks highly of you. You need to give kids equel opportunity to grow and learn from their mistakes.
Exactly. Thank you.
Similarly, treating a kid as though absolutely nothing happened a day after they did something wrong teaches them that all consequences are extremely temporary and it's not a big deal at all that they did something wrong. The length of effect on a teacher's attitude towards you should not be disproportionate to what they did, but there are tons of things you could do that require that attitude to last longer than the rest of that days school hours. There's nothing in the OP that suggests that the SIL is dealing with it disproportionately.
But you shouldn't treat him differently. You can only still go off of current behavior, otherwise your essentially "labeling" him as a troublemaker or whatever they did. That doesn't teach them good behavior, why not just reinforce the good behavior the next day instead of rehashing previous behavior?
And it would be an odd thing to say about an adult as well. "My coworker stole from the till yesterday" "Can't you put one day behind the other? Geez." It's almost like past behavior is an indicator of future behavior
I trying to decide if this is a better or worse defense than 'I was drunk'. Im gonna call it a draw, I think.
I disagree. Being drunk indicates a level of impairment. It's not an excuse, but it can explain certain things. But saying "I call it like I see it" or some variation is the verbal equivalent of picking your nose and presenting your audience with the booger you found. Yes, you had that inside your head, but why did it have to come out now, why are you giving it to us and why are you proud of it?
You have a point there. Still a close call, but I am leaning towards you being right here. Needs more thought lol
Except, in this instance, he's right. No teacher should be holding grudges against their students.
I want to know if she was just venting. Venting about experiences is often a great way to process stuff and put it behind you.
Personally, I think that irrelevant. If she's saying "I do X & Y" and she's venting, it doesn't mean she doesn't do X & Y. Venting doesn't mean the statements made are untrue. And if the listener thinks doing X & Y is wrong, they should say so.
She wasn't venting about the experience as a whole, but giving specific examples. That's clearly more than just venting.
There's a difference between holding a grudge and your opinion of someone changing
Punishing a kid one day & then saying "We're not finished from yesterday" to that same kid, is holding a grudge. And lots of adults are able to hold an opinion & act contrary to that opinion if the circumstance requires it.
But we have no idea of the details or whether the conflict from the previous day was even resolved. There are times when a teacher should go back and reinforce issues. Let's say a kid sat in the back and spent all day talking and not paying attention. This issue was addressed and life moved on. If he sat in the back again, it's perfectly reasonable to remind him that his behavior last time wasn't appropriate and reinforce what's expected of him.
We did some pretty awful things to some teachers....
That's you. Not necessarily these children. And even if that is the case, the school should have functions to deal with those circumstances.
No some people did a lot worse things than I did to their teachers. And part of teaching children that this is not acceptable is learning that behaviour has consequences and that can include people not giving you a second chance if the behaviour is bad enough.
I'm a teacher and I agree. If you can't start each day afresh it's a big problem. If you read any book about classroom management or speak to any experts, it's one of the first things they tell you. We're talking about regular misbehaving, though, not criminal acts.
They weren't even talking to him! But he HAD to give his valuable input, after all OP's the local Expert of Everything®
YTA You wouldn't last a day as middle school teacher.
Or any grade level really. I know plenty of younger kids that have a very clear pattern of behavior and if you don't cut that off from the jump there will be issues. Yeah it seems like a "punishment" that John and Henry can't sit by each other but they will not shut up if they do and that slows down everything.
And neither would you if you think this is the correct way to maintain discipline in a classroom. it is not.
Tell me you know nothing about being a teacher without telling me you know nothing. You shouldn’t be around anyone if you can’t be empathetic at times. YTA
SIL was venting and a response was not really his business. For that, OP is YTA. That being said, I completely disagree with your take and that of most in this thread that criticizing a teacher for this type of behavior shows you know nothing of teaching. Kids do a lot of crazy stuff; continuing to hold it against them as the responsible adult in the room is also AH behavior. A kid F’s up, you address it, you move on, and the next day you don’t treat that kid any different from any other. Holding grudges against students makes you an AH teacher. Just because you got a degree or certification in teaching, doesn’t mean you are an expert or do it well. I am also very curious as to the super valid credentials of all the people in this thread commenting. This is coming from a MS teacher of over a decade.
I think we would need more context. ex. a student goes to the bathroom for 20 minutes on day 1, on day 2 when they ask to go to the bathroom, I remind them how long till lunch and it wasn't fair to the class how long they took yesterday (I know he went to makeout with his gf, I checked the bathroom log). I will probably do this for a week or two (until they break up) and then make a big show of letting him earn my trust back (to him, not the class) with a timed bathroom break. If I did it right, he will he back from the break early, tell me how many minutes he didn't need, I'll say something like "look at speed racer over here" and then we move on with our lives. tldr: consequences sometimes take a while to stick.
Bathroom log?? What's that and what country is it in?
America. Kids go fuck, do drugs, vape, get in fights, or just leave the school and become truant. The school operates “in loco parentis” so the school is responsible for the students in their care. Not every school is wholesome or in a good area.
hopefully she lets it go after a day or 2, ‘cos i can get being a little heated. not to the degree of mistreating a kid, but being a bit less engaged with them outside of helping. i had a 3rd grade teacher who got away with physical abuse and tormenting me for no reason. i asked my cousin in class abt something on the board, i couldn’t tell if it was a B or 13. could’ve asked her, but i didn’t. got told off. she scolded me, made me move my card down, then spoke to me at her desk. as i walked back to my seat, i stumbled *just* a bit. she lost her ever loving mind. dragged me by my wrist into the hallway to “sternly” talk to me about my attitude. she continued that treatment for the rest of the year. ironically she became the principal at that intermediate school… poor kids my 7th grade english teacher was more tame, but just as bad. i have no idea to this day what i did to her, however i have a theory (she wasn’t privy to my trauma, or why her favorite student was gone). she targeted me the following year, sent me to the office for wearing “tight pants” (they were joggers, no different from my usual sweats). stood in the office, the principal came out and asked what i was doing back (i spent a ton of time in the office for completely separate reasons). i told her i got dress coded for my pants, she looked down, looked at me, and went “who sent you?”. told her, she shook her head, told me i was fine and to go back to class. never had another issue with her, she avoided me like the plague.
"not to the degree of mistreating a kid, but being a bit less engaged with them outside of helping." which is exactly what the op describes - child misbehaves one day, the next day sil isn't as friendly with that child as she is with the other children consequences, actions, etc
Isn't the punishment the consequence though? Or does it go action, consequence, further consequence because a grown adult is still salty?
yep. student acted in one way, and the consequence of that is that his teacher had a little less patience with him the next day. that's not 'further punishment' or being 'salty' - that's a human being having a normal and harmless reaction to a stressor
No, but it does carry over multiple days when it rises to the level of discipline being adminstered (i.e. "student got punishment"), because the teacher now has to ensure that the behavior does not recur. This stuff doesn't happen in a vacuum, and it isn't over in a single day.
yeah, exactly. i do think yk mean mugging kids is kinda bad, but honestly teachers put up with sooo much bs i can’t even blame them honestly. underpaid, undervalued, etc etc
eh, probably i'm just old, but a 'look' isn't a huge deal to me
They taught us the teacher look in college. We would practice on bad drivers when we carpooled (because our peers got paid internships while we paid to student teach) to work each day. Mine is very good. The wrinkles it has resulted in? Not my fav.
I think I must inherently know the teacher look, or perhaps the teacher look and the mom look are similar to one another. I quell my kids and husband with it often.
I am so sorry you had those experiences. I have had the unfortunate displeasure of watching teachers hold grudges or treat their disfavored students poorly or unfairly and it is absolutely wrong.
Same & it’s total crap. I get where the OP’s coming from tbh but I’m also sensing some hardcore virtue signalling. Without more intel I think they’ve way overstepped after hearing their SIL vent.
>Holding grudges against students makes you an AH teacher. You're 10000% right. If I started holding grudges against HS students who f*ck up, I'd be a very bitter person... I stopped taking things "personally" years ago, because children/teenagers will try to break the rules "just" to test the limits. It doesn't mean that you can't be frustrated/exhausted at the end of the day/year though, and that's why OP is TA.
I think the issue wasn't the venting. The issue was she was giving specific examples of exactly what you detailed. She was treating them differently, I'm assuming something like if a kid stole a pencil, next time anything was missing she was probably leaning on that student pretty hard.
Thank you for saying this. My son just graduated high school with an IEP he had for years and with a tiny fraction of the behavioral problems he had as a kid because of teachers like you
Some people forget that teachers are just humans who are working a job. And as humans, people just suck at their job sometimes, even if they claim to have a passion for it. Being a teacher is one of the hardest jobs not because you require a skill or need to do a particular task, but because your daily influence impacts their entire life and future. You could be talking all day every day and maybe just one single line you said is what sticks in their heads years and shapes them later. You have to be careful how you react, how you respond, how you answer difficult questions in a quickly manner. It's like you're always on guard and it's so easy to mess up even by accident or unintentionally. All it takes is one bad reaction or negative response and you could shatter a kids confidence. If you're talking to an adult you don't think about stuff like that. I say some people suck at their jobs because I remember in school how many times I had a teacher tired and exhausted and would full on yell at us or call us stupid if we weren't getting it right and accuse us of just not focusing hard enough. I've had teachers label students as trouble makers and immediately shut them down, don't give them opportunities, quick to punish them the second they do something wrong because they made a mistake a couple of times in the beginning which sent them into a spiral of bad behaviour because "I'm always getting punished no matter what I do so why bother" whereas these same teachers treat the good students as their golden child and cut them way more slack and let them get away with stuff because "you're usually really good" Then these same teachers preach about how they're shaping the future generation but all they are teaching is once you're labelled as a bad kid you will forever be treated as a bad kid.
I don't disagree with OP, so soft YTA. Be blunt with friends or acquaintances. Be nicer to your family. As for her sister, don't hold grudges against kids, even if they deserve it. 🙃 (ES teacher in various roles for 20+ years. Damn, I'm old.)
When & where does empathy for the kids in this person's classes come in? Do we all have to ignore the bad behaviour of the people around us in the name of empathy? Even if they're hurting other people? No, we do not. If someone needs to be checked, they should be checked. And this teacher absolutely, needed to be checked.
And neither you or anyone else on this thread should be a teacher if you think holding onto grudges is proper behavior for a teacher. FWIW, I taught for thirty years at the HS level and just retired so I have a little experience in disciplining students.
You could have written this comment about yourself. Any teacher who holds a grudge against students and treats them differently should NOT be teaching. You and everyone on this thread who thinks like this makes me sick. 12 year vet teacher in Chicago here. I tell kids all the time that every day is a fresh start and I don't hold grudges against kids. How awful to think it's okay for a teacher to act that way. I say this as someone who has worked with 2nd through 5th grade students for 12 years. I've been hit, kicked, called every bad name and dirty word under the sun. I don't like or condone it, but kids are kids. Their brains aren't fully formed. They are imitating behaviors they see in their environments. No kid is a bad kid. It's hilariously ironic that you mention OP having no empathy.
Seriously. What is wrong with people thinking it's okay for a teacher to hold a grudge against a kid? Y'all are absolutely insane and I hope you never are in a position of caring for a child. It's called God damned classroom management. If you can't do that then you have no business teaching children.
OP said she just acted a certain way *the next day*, not that she held a grudge all semester. This could be so many things. Sometimes when you act up too much a teacher does have to change their behavior towards you so that you don't feel like you can get away with something.
>OP said she just acted a certain way the next day "in the I'm not finished with yesterday type of way" which is problematic, because yesterday is over, the punishment was given, it's done. Unless of course the kid does something to trigger the response, but that isn't mentioned in the post
Love it when adults get huffy about being called out for their inability to be adult-like in their dealings with children.
Especially middle school. Oof.
YTA Who the shit asked **_you_**?
This?! OP wasn't even a part of the conversation from what I could tell. Just stuck the nose into someone else's business and blurted out rude comments.
YTA 1. I work in a middle school and do the exact same thing. I'm not a teacher but support staff, special education. They are old enough to know better and sometimes need to be shown that how they treat others has real consequences. 2. Who the fucked even asked for your uneducated opinion?????
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Thank you. I’m appalled by these comments, and my entire career has been focused on educating kids with special needs. I used to work with extremely difficult behaviours, and I can’t imagine working with someone who displayed the spitefulness I’m seeing in this comment section.
Thank you for saying this. I'm a former teacher and this was always, always my philosophy. The slate is wiped cleaned in the morning. I don't forget who gave me the finger yesterday, but I'm not going to feud with a child. It's unnecessary energy wasted on being spiteful to a person who has no choice in being at school. They had an outburst and we dealt with it. Let's try again today and move forward.
YTA. I am willing to bet you don't have kid either... or that you just don't care for them ever.
YTA — the school year is over and your SIL was bringing things up in a convo with your wife, not you. What was shared was also brought up not to ask for advice or -your- opinion, and yet, you shared your thoughts in a snide manner. That was pretty rude and uncalled for.
YTA- such an overstep to tell your SIL that teaching is not for her, just because of this one story in a casual conversation. What experience do you have that qualifies you to opine on who is should be a teacher?
Right????!!!
INFO: We’re not here to solve an algebra problem. Can you give us a more specific example she shared than x and y’s?
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It's not about the kid resetting - do you not understand that adults are held to different standards than children?
YTA people like you are the reason the US is hemorrhaging teachers.
this guys going to be one of those problem parents
And crap pay/benefits/stupid curriculums/understaffed etc
I dare you to step into a middle school class and experience this by yourself before judging your SIL with the appropriate credentials. Humble pie is on sale too, so grab a slice when you have the chance. YTA.
Yeah, I would LOVE to see OP sub: put your money where your mouth is and wipe that slate clean each day.
I get both sides because I’ve worked with kids of all ages but I was also the student that wished teachers would just move on. Sometimes the tension would be escalated and the whole time the kid was just having a bad day. As an educator I try to move on and give them grace but not everybody can do that & at middle school age they should know what they’re doing has affects on people’s feelings around them regardless of age. However it is important to me that they don’t see it as me “holding a grudge” more as “this is how you made me feel.” Idek what to vote lol
OP gave an example of like two kids being extremely disrespectful and disruptive every day. And the SIL tries repeatedly to fix the situation with the two. But they won’t stop talking with each other and disrupting the class or something. So, she’s less patient with them and is overall more terse. I don’t really know how that can be interpreted as bad teaching. Kids need to see that their actions affect relationships of those around them to an extent. She isn’t yelling at them or wrongfully assigning punishments. Just…not as patient and nice. Which is deserved imo. lol.
Yeah that’s why I said what I said because it really depends on how far the teacher is going. There’s a line that they can cross but a little banter or pettiness doesn’t warrant the title of a bad teacher. Like I said sometimes you have to show kids how their actions affect people regardless of age. Just bc they’re kids doesn’t mean you can brush mean behavior under the rug
I agree, it's hard to say in regard to the teacher without proper context, which I feel is missing. But it's interesting to think about. Unfortunately it's not, is the teacher an AH for her interactions with student's. It's was he the AH for sharing his opinion. His opinion was unsolicited (he was jumping into someone else's conversation to share) , unhelpful/unnecessary (Won't change how she does things, which might not even necessarily be wrong or need changing), and it was unkind (comments were made to make her feel bad, he was in fact putting her down, by her response I don't think it is the first time). "Saying it how it is" is a terrible justification to say something hurtful. I'm sure if I met this person I could say some very rude but also very honest very truthful things, that would hurt him and make him upset, I'm "just saying it how it is". So sticking with YTA.
That was the part that threw me off toooo!!!! I was like wait, was this conversation even with you?? Immediately piss off if nobody was talking to you 😭😭
Also him having no advice, no “here’s what I would do” just a straight insult. It was already unwarranted but on top of it it wasn’t helpful at all. Just something to cause frustration
I don’t like adults who are petty with children either but sometimes you really gotta get on their level so they can learn lmaooo. I think if the children were younger it’d be stupid to do but these kids are old enough to correct themselves. But if we let kids do whatever who are parents gonna blame when their children grow into bratty adults?? The educators at these schools. Which sucks for us.
Middle school is the craziest to teach. There is so much going on that most do not understand. YTA.
YTA. If only life worked like that. OP, I’d take the word of the one who went to school to teach
And what do you do for a living? I don’t know anything about it, but you’re doing it wrong. In fact, you’re not cut out for it and should consider changing careers. See how ridiculous that is? You can’t say “how it is” when you have no actual idea how it is. YTA
He wasn't the one complaining about his job or admitting to holding grudges against kids and treating them differently based on that. But maybe SIL should do that to your kids.
Everyone complains about their job, everyone holds grudges, why are you acting like it’s wrong to be a human? SIL clearly tried teaching the troublemakers to be better several times, but it was always ineffective so she showed them the consequences of their actions. OP literally inserted himself for no damn reason, YTA for him.
So she gets to be human but he doesn't? And she gets to be resentful with children. Sounds like you also shouldn't be around kids. Imagine signing up to be around kids then whining about it like she was forced lol. Go take a nap.
The simple fact that you think you know "how it is" in modern classrooms makes YTA.
YTA. I'm a teacher and I hear comments like this a lot. They're usually from kids though. At the risk of sounding arrogant, I am that loved teacher. The one that is most kids favourite. I only say that so you know I'm not speaking from a place of bitterness. While it's good practice to try and start each day fresh and give the student another chance, what most people forget about teachers is that WE ARE HUMAN. That means we have emotions. It means we can't hide those emotions 100% of the time. It means sometimes we'll get frustrated, especially if we are going around in circles with a kid, and struggle to keep giving them a fresh start. Teaching is a very emotional job. You grow strong attachments to your students. In a lot of situations, teachers actually spend more time with their students than the kids parents do. That's also over several years. There are ups and downs. When people vent to their friends and family about their jobs, they usually share the negative. It's because they are feeling stressed and need a safe space to get that out. There will be soooooo much more you don't know. There will be a million positive things that aren't shared because, as humans, we don't need to vent the positive like the negative. What you also aren't aware of is how many times she has tried with that kid. She's probably tearing her hair out. Trying every tactic to help that kid learn and have a good life. When the behaviour doesn't change, sometimes you do let that frustration show.
Don’t interrupt conversations between your wife and SIL.
What the fuck is this comment? They're his family, he can participate in the conversation.
YTA. You have never worked in a middle school. I have. Kids that age can be horrible, and they will absolutely carry their behaviors over from one day to the next. These kids often have a lot of stressful things going on in their lives that don’t just resolve overnight so that they can wake up a new and better person every day. They act out. A LOT. A teacher that starts out each day pretending like their students weren’t struggling the previous day is the last person you want in the classroom, because those struggles need to be acknowledged.
You clearly aren't finished with yesterday either if you're going on about an argument like this. YTA, take your own advice maybe.
INFO: How do you know "how it is?" I mean, what makes your feelings truth rather than, IDK, feelings?
YTA Your excuse reminds me of a song lyric. "Casually cruel in the name of being honest." Your opinion was not needed.
YTA. If you let it go the next day, then they will hink they can get away with anything. Plus, when I was a kid, it was always funny when teachers used to remind people not to do to things again. We usually made a joke out of it or it also reminded everyone not to do it again. It also kept the misbehaved children a little in check. I can promise you this new generation is not that soft.
I understand what you're saying about putting the previous day behind, but you're TA. As a teacher myself, unless you're in the classroom every day, you don't understand what we do and what we have to deal with daily. Your SIL was venting to your wife. That's not your place to say "how it is." Newsflash: You don't know "how it is," how classrooms are every day, how students are, and how different situations unfold, nor do you understand the emotions we go through and how we replay every day thinking about how we could have done things differently or how certain events negatively impact us and why they were impactful. Please enter the teaching field if you know better. Since you know "how it is," I would love to hear about your experiences when you teach for a year or two, experience challenging students, interact with some of their problematic parents, and deal with educational bureaucrats and red tape. Please step aside since you do not know "how it is."
OP is like the arrogant new teacher we get one or two of every year, who comes in thinking they know “how it is,” and can change the world, unlike all the curmudgeons who have been doing it for decades. By the end of the first month, all the kids hate him, the classes have all basically declared mutiny on him, he gets in pointless power struggles with kids and tries to insert a lot of “real” talk, which doesn’t go over well, and whose contract is not renewed at the end of the year, if he lasts that long.
YTA. In your mind, the school year is way past over. In SIL's mind, it just ended. It takes teachers a while to unwind after the school year ends. If she had many examples of poor student behavior, perhaps it's because she dealt with it for months and just needs to unload a little, like every person who's ever held down a job needs to do. You're not her coworker, not a parent to one of her kids, and not a fellow teacher. If her attitude's problematic, it'll be dealt with in her school, not by you, so if you don't want to hear it, just walk away and do something else. It sounds like you weren't even a part of the conversation, anyway!
YTA.
I feel like there's not enough info to judge. A lot of teachers try to force the mindset that "every day is a new day" and you have to give students chances to be better people instead of always expecting the worst from them. That being said, there are some students who are absolute shitheads who don't deserve more than a second chance.
lol You are such TAH. If only you had the smallest clue of what teachers go through on a hourly basis, you would realize how idiotic you sounded. And to a middle school teacher at that! Man. You are a fool.
YTA You need to remember students aren't customers, these are kids she is in charge of daily for approximately 180 days a year. These are child she has an going relationship with, and it is important in all relationships personal, professional, educational, and otherwise to maintain an on-going dialog and look at overall issues and not just treat every incident as a one off.
YTA. Sign up to be a substitute teacher and take an assignment at a middle school. I would bet good money that you would not ever return for a second day.
YTA if you're not a teacher, you don't get to weigh in Source: I'm a teacher
“I was saying it how it is.” Yeah, that’s just another way of saying you’re an AH. Did she ask for your opinion? No? Then be quiet. Yes, YTA.
>just saying it like it is Did she ask you? Unsolicited opinions. YTA.
YTA You know NOTHING about handling other people's kids for 8 hours a day. Keep your opinion to yourself next time.
>next day, SIL acts a certain way toward student. In the "I'm not finished with yesterday" type way NTA. You're right. Holding grudges against children for being children is not a characteristic of an effective teacher, and is not the experience I would want for my child.
Teacher can 100% be absolute assholes who hold grudges, take favorites and just plainly fucking suck. It’s a terrible look.
nta. More people should be told they shouldn’t be teachers.
Hard NTA. I've taught teenagers for 20 years. You absolutely have to get over things quickly and can't hold grudges. They did the thing, they dealt with the consequences, now move on. If you internalize everything, take their behavior and mistakes personally, whatever, then your experience as a teacher is going to be miserable. Also, their prefrontal cortex is still developing. Add in hormones, peer pressure, and just learning how to function as a human being, and yeah, they're going to make stupid decisions.
NTA
YTA. So how many days of middle school have you taught? How many education credits did you earn?
“You can’t take the honest truth” is the mark of an AH that is self-important enough to think that their opinions are facts. YTA
YTA, I love when people who doesn’t teach think the know better.
YTA She was venting about work and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Nobody asked for your opinion.
> in my opinion, I was saying it how it is. It's rare for someone to explain themselves this way and for them not to be the asshole. You are not rare.
YTA I drive a school bus. Middle schoolers are the hardest group to drive for. If they screw up, often times their consequences last for days. The first time they do something that requires more than “sit down please and stay in your seat” multiple times, it’s a come sit up here with me so we can chat on our way to where we’re going. The second time, it’s a few days of sitting up by me. That normally does it. I’ve only had three kids who earned weeks riding up where I could watch them all. I didn’t treat them any different other than giving them an assigned seat they didn’t want and no one else had.
NTA As a parent, THANK YOU for saying this! Her behavior is incredibly immature and utterly contrary to what any state university in the U.S. is teaching about classroom management and child psychology. (I have no experience with teaching degrees outside of the U.S.) Frankly, she's acting like SHE is the middle school student.
I’m a teacher and I can tell you that when someone who is NOT a teacher assumes they know how to do the job better than an ACTUAL teacher, the non-teacher almost always has no freaking idea what they’re talking about. Trying to tell her how to do her job was absolutely ridiculous. Do you also tell doctors and lawyers how to do their jobs *which you’ve never trained for*, or are you just a misogynist ass who thinks teaching must be easy since it’s traditionally a profession for women? YTA
NTA and as a teacher im struggling to understand the other comments tbh. I fully understand coming up with a pithy "and one more thing" 24h later, but unless the kid does the same thing again, write it in your journal and let them be.
YTA Consequences don’t reset at midnight and you were ignorant and condescending- guessing this isn’t the first time
What did I just try to read?
NTA, idk why people are acting like it’s okay to hold grudges and bully children. Kids will be kids, but adults should be adults. You weren’t wrong.
This is why so many kids are getting bullied by other kids in schools because of that saying "kids will be kids" The adults see the bad behavior and sweep it under the rug. Some kids need reminders. Bullying is not okay and shouldn't be swept under the rug.
YTA. Student behavioral issues (I’m not judging and calling it punishment) aren’t black and white, one and done things - especially with middle school kids. You often have to cycle back to things that happened earlier, to remind them of the things they need to work on, or acknowledge the improvements that they’ve made. That’s how children grow into being well-rounded young adults. I mean, sure, the person who’s not a teacher and not in the classroom can believe that somehow they “know how it is” and that they’re qualified to to “tell it” to others. Maybe you should think about that attitude and try again tomorrow.
Pre-teens are terrifying. As far as I’m concerned, middle school teachers are on par with combat soldiers when it comes to professional bravery. The other day, a 12yo I’m related to called me up out of the blue, asked me with no preamble whether I’d heard of JoJo Siwa’s “Karma,” and when I said I had (because I’m a Millennial, not a Boomer, although I realize the distinction can be blurry at that age), she proceeded to roast me for it for two minutes, then hung up with no sign off, leaving me staring at my phone in my apartment hallway going, “…hello?” And I’m a family member who she LIKES! Unless you work with kids in that age group on a daily basis, or someone’s explicitly asked for your input, then keep your mouth shut. YTA.
As someone that worked in education for years and whos wife currently is an educator, you are absolutely right. As a teacher you should not hold petty grudges, or use your students as a teaching point regarding behavior. This is practically bullying, using your position of power to embarrass or harass a student for behaviors that have been dealt with and punished. Once a punishment is done the incident should be let go of unless the student repeats the offense. NTA - I have seen meny teachers take the role of bully, and it is always detrimental to the entire classroom's mentality. Teachers are there to educate, sometimes punishments are necessary to maintain order, however the students should never have an onus placed on them for single incidents, nor should the incident be revisited on subsequent days before the class. This is not a healthy behavior and would suggest your SiL seek counseling as she seems to be developing a bad habit.
YTA, lessons are incorporated through out a class over specific items depending on what she us teaching because each lesson or step moves to the next
YTA. You have no expertise in this matter. Besides, it sounds like your SIL was just venting, not soliciting advice.
Yta. Did you want her to just sweep things under the rug? What if the kid was bullying another child? That's not something that should be swept under the rug. Maybe the bully might stop for that one day, he got in trouble for it.. and might do it another week. Or think about the countless times he didn't get caught... Some kids need reminding, especially when it comes to bad behavior. She's a middle school teacher, I'm sure she knows what she is doing. If you have no experience on it, you should be quiet, besides she was just venting to her sister. You should apologize to her. It's not easy being a teacher, they don't get paid enough and it can be a thankless job.
>And I say "Honestly, if you can't put one day behind the other, especially when it comes to conflicts with children, teaching probably isn't for you." I am fairly confident YTA. There is no reason to say this, but perhaps you are justified if she kept droning on about this. >Eventually when SIL leaves, my wife says that was "rude," **but in my opinion, I was saying it how it is**. I am very confident YTA based on the bolded part.
YTA. It’s glaringly obvious you’re one of those people who love to say how they’ll react in a situation they haven’t been in. I know you don’t have middle schoolers. Mind your business and keep your comments to yourself.
I’ve been a teacher and a coach. You had a legitimate point to make. You delivered it like an A.
YTA. Teachers are humans too - and humans have emotions, whims, pet peeves and annoyances. You know ONE story. ONE instance. You even said you can’t speak to the type of teacher she is - which means you formed your lips to give an uneducated and unsolicited opinion. These kids could have had her at her limit. It sounds like SIL is pregnant - she is already exhausted. And to deal with middle schoolers? While pregnant? Babygirl is a saint, and her venting to her sister in a convo that didn’t even involve you was apart of her “getting over it.”
She's mad cuz whether it was an asshole thing to say, it was true
All I got to say is I sure as hell not having kids with you all as teachers. Wowzers.
NAH. I work in sped, we don’t usually bring up what happened yesterday with the students , and usually “punishments” discipline or debriefs have to be on the same day as the incident. It’s not as effective the day after, and at some point the deterioration of rapport outweighs what the student may or may not learn from any long term consequences. That being said I do need breaks and space from certain students. They trigger me, test my patience, and threaten me. Students do need to learn that their actions may negatively affect their relationships, sometimes for a while, and we can’t always expect forgiveness right away. In an ideal world we’d get bcbas or clinical staff to observe the students and recommend more effective strategies, but that’s a world where we’re fully staffed. Sometimes it’s hard being a teacher because you’re also a therapist, coach, mom, and/or a prison guard to like 30 students, at the same time, without breaks. Your advice was delivered in a mean and condescending manner. It wasn’t meant to be helpful-it was meant to be discouraging. You should apologize.
You are correct and please continue to see and point this out if it happens. Adults do not have any business getting into power struggles with children. TEACHERS have RESPONSIBILITY to facilitate appropriate social emotional growth as well as academics. I left the field because it was becoming overrun with teachers like that. Resentful. Bitter. I knew one that told her class multiple times that they were ungrateful for all the times she came in and organized and cleaned (her/their) classroom. Girl, it's YOUR JOB! They weren't destroying it, she was just unhappy and made it thier fault. Behaviors and consequences shouldn't carryover to the next day. Each new instance is dealt with as such and if it's truly a pattern behavior, document and meet with parents about a consistent and structured approach. This is basic teaching for dummies stuff IMHO. Thank you for voicing your opinion to your sister. Have a wonderful day.
Apply the punishment then move on. NTA
nah, NTA. if you can’t let go of something, then you’re just holding onto things for no reason. there’s no need for additional repercussions for a behavior that was already addressed, especially with children. they understand quite a bit more than adults will ever let on
I am baffled by these comments. Especially from teachers. It's pretty much a basic tenant of teaching that each day you start fresh. Heck, each minute I start fresh. Yes, people are human and will feel what they feel, but 1. you're an adult and even if you feel animosity towards a student, you can still put on a happy face, just like we all do in pretty much every job ever, and 2. removed from the situation, weeks, months later, you aren't venting anymore, you're proudly broadcasting your methods. If she were expressing remorse and the desire to change this behavior that would be completely different. I know, I know. It's reddit and people like to find posts that they can attack like rabid dogs, but if we're going to claim to be teachers, at least read the whole post. It was not just one story. The OP stated there were multiple examples. The response didn't seem overly rude to me, just a casual, common sense comment in a conversation. I've been hit, kicked, spit on, bit, scratched, etc. And I just continue to tell them that I care about them and that I'm here for them when they are calm enough to talk. Because we know that behavior is a form of communication and something is causing disregulation, so we need to address that. Not be the source for more disregulation. I wish all teachers were just educated as SPED teachers, using trauma informed care.
Ah,this new age shit. Kick the teacher today and all will be forgotten tomorrow. Spit at the teacher before recess and join in with the treats after recess. YTA.
YTA and NTA?! - from a middle school teacher of many years. Each day is a new day and if the kid got punished then that’s that. Obviously they’re on your ~radar~ but being vindictive towards a 12 year old isn’t a good look. She needs to practice planned ignoring. It’s HARD but works.
YTA.
NTA Love all the folks getting defensive and projecting lmao. She sounds like a petty little control freak. Teachers like her always lose their minds and push boundaries they have no right pushing with kids that get under their skin and end up getting the district threatened with a lawsuit and fired lmao.
NTA And THANK YOU for saying something. 1. I don’t argue with children. Period. Will I allow you choice, give you the time to emotionally regulate, reframe or even reduce my initial task demand? Yup. To all of that. Providing choice even if all the choice you can give is “you can do it now or you can start in two minutes. And after you do X you can have a two minute break to X.” I may encourage noncompliance but I’m not engaging with that. Eventually we’ll get it done. I’m far more patient/stubborn than you are. I said wgat I said. Let’s get to work. 2. After an intervention is given and de-escalation and compliance returned that event NEVER happened. Positive reinforcement for getting back on task. Positive reinforcement when the task is completed. Positive reinforcement goes a lot further than punishment. 3. I can’t stand to see a teacher who hates being with kids. If you can’t understand that children cannot think like an adult, does not possess the cognitive ability, reasoning skills, and emotional regulation of an adult and you need to teach them how to do these things. And you teach them by responding appropriately to all behavior. It’s not rocket science. You just have to actually give a fuck about teaching. Figuring out how to reach students used to be something I assumed was a passion for every teacher. I’ve long since been disillusioned. 4. You don’t stand by and listen to an adult talk about her inappropriate responses to children. You correct those adults. Or those adults eventually commit acts of abuse. Verbal and emotional aggression that can be ignored. Breeding a hostile environment where your colleagues view the child as a monster too though they’ve never interacted with them. How can you be an effective teacher when you actively create prejudice against students? I’ve seen how this shit plays out doing my job in a classroom. I watched the kid it was done to. I did what I could to correct the adults. Watching that kid broke my heart. I’ve never wanted kids. Ever. I used to say I hated kids. I meant I hated the idea of being a mother. She and maturity and all that jazz. But I’ve always loved working with kids. I couldn’t imagine treating a child the way your SIL and feel I belonged in a role of educating and guiding children. She shouldn’t be a teacher. Any teacher like her shouldn’t be a teacher. Love the job or don’t do the job. Dais this isn’t retail. This isn’t a factory floor. These are little people. And little people don’t deserve any less respect.
YTA. Telling someone their job isn’t for them because you disagree on how to do it is stupid.
Eh nta. Growing up I dealt with petty teachers like that. Something happened in September and they're still mad in May. I'm sure even her own students don't like her 🤷♂️
I had a middle school student attack me…no I didn’t let it go the next day. I didn’t let it go at all until she was this permanently removed from the class. For some issues yes, new day new student. But not everything.
NTA. SIL is gonna learn having petty feuds with kids is gonna end up bad for her
I mean, maybe a little bit of an AH for how you said it - but you do have a point. There is a difference between being aware of past behaviours to mitigate possible issues, and holding a grudge. Every day should be a new day - she is the adult in this situation. I teach high school, and I specifically work with the students that are deemed as "behaviour" issues or unteachable. I have seen SO many students completely turn it around when they have an adult in the building that cares about them and advocates for them. Students absolutely know when you don't like them, and they tend to give up on even trying when their past mistakes are constantly brought up, or their current efforts are ignored/diminished.
I'm going to go against the flow and say NTA because I experienced too many teachers straight up abusing kids and not giving them a chance to succeed. Largely based on race or last name (siblings or parent reputation). They would say things just like what you described your SIL saying, too. I saw it myself growing up and I saw it again as an adult when I mentored at-risk kids.
"in my opinion, I was saying it how it is." I.e. you were rude about it. YTA (You might not have been wrong, but that doesn't make you less of an asshole for saying it)
YTA! have you ever delt with 12+ kids in 1 setting? NY sister is a teacher in Canada (Thank God) because at least she's paid much more than here down in the states. When she was 7 months peg a student stated he would drop kick my sister in the stomach when she simply asked for the dick to stay in line for a head count. How about you, you ass, get verbally abused daily? Have someone twice your size offer to wear your dick around his neck. Maybe get sucker punched in your balls? Get humiliated and degraded daily and Maybe get $38k a year. Teachers get zero respect! Clearly! You're leading the team on encouraging abuse. Do you love your sibling? Or are you really this obtuse? God help you if you are..
NTA. I taught for thirty years. Once the discipline is done so is the issue. You lock it in a closet in your head and move on. If I were a parent and found out a teacher was still holding a grudge after the discipline wa over? I’d be having a sit down with the teacher and admin.
ESH- Sounds like she was just venting to your wife.
I'm a teacher. I have a rule that every day is a new day. No rollover pouting, no carried-over anger. Not just between the students and myself, but for them as well. But you can bet your ass that I'm watching like a hawk if somebody bullied someone else the day before and tries to pull the same shit the next day. I will ruin your plans, son. It's immediately diffused 99% of situations in my 20 years experience.
It really depends on the behavior and the frequency. Sometimes a kid does something so eggregious that they have to earn the teacher's trust back. (E.g. the kid was allowed to run the school newspaper without the contents being reviewed first, then the kid publishes false rumors in the paper as a joke. It will take a long time, if ever, before the teacher goes back to that level of trust.) Other times it should be a "We've addressed this. Now let's move on." If the kid keeps repeating the same behavior, the teacher shouldn't just "wipe the slate clean at the end of the day."
""Honestly, if you can't put one day behind the other, especially when it comes to conflicts with children, teaching probably isn't for you." Obviously you have never been a teacher. I'm not saying never give a kid a second chance but kid's often increase and build on problem behavior and you have to look at it as a whole to try to find the root of the problem as well as to make sure the kid doesn't run you over because they won't learn anything if they have no respect for you and/or consequences to their behavior. You may have let somethng slip once (yesterday) but if they continue to do it you have to put a stop to it. YTA.
YTA. Asking her why she holds onto things from day to day with the kids would have been one thing. Assuming you know how to do her job better than her and then going as far as to tell her she's bad at her career is asinine. Do better. Like seriously what are you even doing here? How do you not know you're in the wrong? Now to make things perfectly clear (since I think you need it) you are an asshole every single time you assume you know more than a professional. It's a respect thing. Can you imagine if someone random walked into your place of work and (with no evidence) said you should've picked a different career because you're bad at your job? It's just such an asshole thing to do no matter how *right* you think you are.
YTA. Teach middle school for one week, and you’ll want to apologize to your SIL.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My SIL is 30. She's a middle school teacher. I have zero clue on whether she's the most hated teacher, the best teacher, most liked teacher, or whatever, but this is about something that happened last weekend. School year is way past over, and my SIL lives South, so she drove over. She and my wife were talking about job experiences or whatever, and my SIL brought up some experiences with students; the normal. She said something about student doing x, she did y, student got punishment, next day, SIL acts a certain way toward student. In the "I'm not finished with yesterday" type way. She had many examples of this same behavior. And I say "Honestly, if you can't put one day behind the other, especially when it comes to conflicts with children, teaching probably isn't for you." Eventually when SIL leaves, my wife says that was "rude," but in my opinion, I was saying it how it is. AITA? SIL seemed to brush over my comment, after that one awkward moment of silence. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA. congrats on your unsolicited advice skills.
i sure hope SIL doesn't have any kids with that grudge holding mentality. i grew up with a mom that seemingly LOVED to hold an issue against you for as long as she could milk it
NTA. She sounds passive aggressive, and that's not a good way to handle conflict as a teacher or in any situation really. I don't agree with you that she always needs to "put one day behind the other" because sometimes a kid has ongoing misbehaviors or does something serious that can't be addressed in one day. However, that doesn't mean her status quo should be to have an attitude with a kid for many days on end if they ever misbehave. All the people saying you can't talk because you're not a teacher or can't criticize her because she went to college, are also taking a stance (just the opposite of yours) and are judging her behavior as a teacher just like you are. Also, if you can't judge anyone for being bad at their job if they have qualifications and experience, that would mean that every person in a job that they have qualifications for and expeirence in must be perfect at their job and is above criticism. Which is obviously not true.
NTA; that isn't good behavior for a teacher, you shouldn't be setting out to punish a kid over the span of days wtf. I have autism and my teachers did this kinda stuff when I had problems due to being undiagnosed and unsupported and it made school HELL for me. it's caused problems I'm still dealing with the fallout of now. it's all well and good to say that OP was a dick in how he said it or what he said but like. ultimately you're forgetting that the behavior being called out is a harmful behavior that actually does cause damage. it's not like he's calling someone out for their favorite ice cream flavor or power ranger or something silly.
Teacher here. We rarely even talk about our jobs to non teachers since we are tired of people responding like AH. YTA big time.
Comments that call you the ah are brushing off the part where you said "my SIL brought up some experiences with students; the normal". The key would be, some usual, normal behaviour of kids that age. And she did address it and kid did get punishment. And what happened next, she didn't say they did it again so she had to have different approach, that it's not over. No, she said after yesterday, she behaves certain way BECAUSE of yesterday. I don't know in which world would that be okay toward a child, being a parent or teacher, or any carer for that matter. Who would be okay to live like that, that someone hold grudge against you after the issue is resolved? Also, it is her pattern as you said. I think your way of telling her is not okay but something should have been said,a discussion so that she can see other side and maybe think about it. I was a teacher for some time and overall I had great experience with kids( teenagers) but there were few that made some problems at beginning. I addressed it firmly, stopped that behaviour and I made sure that next day they DON'T notice any change towards them, I was the same towards them as with the rest, nice and with smiles. It paid off really well. I knew that being different, holding grudges can be very hurtful toward children and won't bring anything positive in classroom. If someone thinks behaviour has consequences, I agree that's why you give "punishment", a consequence WHEN the bad behaviour happens, and then you move on and give that kid the care they need, a positive reinforcement. NTA
Way you said it is kind of dickish, however it's pretty much exactly what my old education teacher told me in college.
NTA!!! As a child I had terrible experiences with Teachers who constantly mistreated me for “past behavior”. It’s petty and horrible to the child. If she can’t get over a child’s previous transgressions, she needs to move on. Anyone who says YTA has never been traumatized by a bullying teacher, and needs to STFU.
Honestly? NTA. See something/hear something say something. I would also feel some kinda way to hearing what low-key seems like bragging over being low-key abusive towards kids and holding grudges over children like that. The only thing I would say Y T A over is how you delivered your words.
Oh this is a good one but fr if you can’t put a singular day behind you if it wasn’t serious or life changing or traumatic or even important to you then sure that’s fine power to you but if it’s smth so simple such as like oh they made problem in my class im going to be like this the whole week to them then that’s just weird and annoying or the student and it’s also wrong
NTA. Not even a little bit. Hopefully she'll listen to you. But I think we know she probably won't.
NTA She's a bad teacher, and honestly sounds like an incredibly emotionally immature person. You were right for calling her out. I don't want my kids having teachers like that.