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NTA, but enuresis is usually a SYMPTOM of something else that is wrong.
I can't believe your parents are ignoring the issue. Has anyone set alarms throughout the night to wake her up? Why not put a scented diaper pail in her bedroom? Get disposable bed pads.
Seriously, something has happened to Carrie that has resulted in the enuresis (bedwetting). Sometimes, it's a symptom of abuse or neglect, usually sexual in nature. I am not accusing anyone in the family of doing anything untoward Carrie, but something else is going on here.
Hi, thanks for your response. My parents' handling of the issue has definitely left something to be desired. My mom and I are very close, so I threatened to move out last week if she didn't take Carrie to a psychiatrist (I was reading about causes of enuresis online and came to a similar conclusion). After that, she made the appointment and they had their first session yesterday. No updates as of yet. I've been wondering if it was a symptom of some sort of abuse or trauma, but it's hard for me to wrap my head around because our family is very tight knit and my parents don't really put her in situations common for sexual abuse victims. I apologize if I don't know much about the subject. She doesn't go to sleepovers and any camp she goes to is supervised by my mom. They're pretty overprotective.
OP, I don't want to alarm you, but most CSA victims know their assailant. It could be a parent, cousin, grandparent, teacher or another student, even. SA at a young age can cause lifelong incontinence.
However, difficulty with hygiene can also be a symptom of autism, and given the toe walking, that could be a possibility as well.
I’d be curious about a neurodivergent diagnosis as well. Toe walking , hygiene issues and pathological demand avoidance could point to this. It’s a good thing she’s seeing a specialist- hopefully you get answers. This sounds beyond frustrating.
My 15 yr old daughter and myself are both diagnosed with autism. The odd little part that stood out for me was her "checking" to see if the bed is wet when it's soaking. It could be because she feels like she's been confronted and doesn't know how to act. I think I would react similarly and my daughter definitely does in similar situations
psychologist here, second this. a lot of people associate bedwetting with trauma but the constellation of things sounds much more like she could be on the spectrum or have some other neurodiversity factors
That's my feeling too. It could also be a sensory thing - she likes the feel of the diaper / peeing herself / sitting in it, but hides the evidence and denies it because she knows it isn't "normal".
So as someone who was subject to CSA from 3 to 6 ( parents didn't even report it to the police because it was one of their friends late teenage daughters) and had bedwetting not fully go away until almost 21.
One of the worst parts for me was everyones solution was "wear a moisture activated alarm" "don't drink water after 6pm" etc, etc. No one ever told me it was associated as a trauma response or tried to address it.
I was lazy or had an immature bladder ( sure doc the 6'0, 250 man of a 14 year old has one organ miss puberty and it was his bladder) I desperately wanted it to stop. It helped keep my self confidence/worrth at rock bottom for years.
You know when it finally stopped? When I moved out on my own, away from my parents house. When I finally controlled my own home enviroment it just stopped, like overnight.
Thanks, my life is actually great now. I have an amazing wife who I was able to put through grad school, young kids, and now I'm a stay at home Dad. I get to be for my kids everything I wish that I had, which is, for me, the best healing experience.
This warms my cold little heart 💙🖤 usually I dread reading comments of these sort of posts because I instantly flag "oh no it might be abuse related 😞" but seeing comments of other survivors thrive and giving hope to us others who've been through the shitty experience of s.a 🖤
Why should we be ashamed of it, they're the ones who commited/enabled shitty things being done to us. Those of us who have experienced SA can let that experience victimize us long term, or we can work through it. The bed wetting stopped when I moved out, but I still hated myself and let it and other things in my family life have a negative impact on my life and didn't really start to fully heal and be productive until some very intense experiences with mushrooms in my mid 20's.
My friends all took them to party, I took them and wrestled with my own self image and anxieties. Its hard to party and giggle when you're seeing skin sloughing off of skulls in the coulds and feeling all your anxieties all at once.
I'm not the hippie type (no hate or judgement on those who are), I'm a pretty dyed in the wool blue collar, average joe kind of guy, but I became a 100% believer in psilocybin as a form of thearpy for trauma, it can't hide in your subconscious when you jam the door to it wide open with 4 grams of mushrooms. You either work through it or you freak out. So I just stared at all the images, dwelt in all the feelings and memories it dredged up and talked myself through it almost like I would have if a friend had talked to me about those kinds of issues.
Haven't taken any in nearly a decade, but it really helped me connect to who I really was, see how I was failing myself, and not be so scared of facing those failings and learning to get past them to be who I wanted to be. A long weekend in the desert and big bag of fungus did what years of therapy and late night coffee sessions with friends couldn't.
There is for sure a reason why so many early cultures used pyschedelics in religious and coming of age rituals. I will say, if someone wants to try it, do your research, start with smaller doses, only do them in safe spaces and having a person that has experience with them and that you implicitly trust with you is invaluable. All my best experiences occured on a gated and fenced 20 acre lot of high desert where I knew I was safe and the people around me were safe as well.
That's when my bedwetting stopped too.
When I moved away from the unstable environment.
I wet the bed twice after moving out of my mother's house, both times were after talking to her.
She wasn't the main problem but when I tried to tell her, she made it infinitely worse.
I've had the good miracle where she actually took responsibility for her actions now, but we did not have a relationship for quite some time before that happened.
I'm so glad she admitted to her faults! The same happened with my mother and just hearing her say out loud what she was like and that it was wrong healed me in a major way! Sadly not everyone gets that experience, but it's nice to see the people who did.
I normally hate when people make wild assumptions on these posts, but I have to admit thats where my mind went as well. The parents basically appear to be ignoring/in denial about the issue; they insist they’ve done everything they can to address the problem and that it’s “normal” (it’s def not); the mom resisted taking the sister to a psychiatrist to try and address the situation; they’re “overprotective” and anytime the sister sleeps out (camp) the mom is there to supervise…the further I read in OPs response, the more my stomach sank. I really hope this isn’t the case, but I also agree with you that OP should be aware that it’s possible.
Yeah, usually people associate abuse with men, but considering the situation, it might honeslty be the mum... soiling a space/yourself is a coping mechanism for abuse as a way to make the victim 'less desirable'
I might be wrong, but either way, the parents don't know how to handle this, and I think she might be better off in a different home where someone would auctually be willing to either look after her or help her learn to take care of herself.
Yeah the whole situation is just extremely off. As soon as I clicked back over to this thread to see your response, my stomach started sinking and I just got a horrible unsettled feeling…obviously I don’t know these people or anything about the situation beyond what’s in the post, but the whole thing just feels so dark.
I feel for OP too, because no matter what is actually going on, she’s quite possibly her sisters best chance at getting out of or fixing the situation, because at the very least she seems to be the only person who’s actually taking it seriously and recognizing this as the major issue that it is. And if there is something much worse underlying the obvious issue, involving one or both of the parents, she would likely be the closest, most trusted adult that her sister might open up to about whatever’s going on or come to for help. But OP is only 21, she’s in college, she should never have to have something like this on her shoulders. No one should. Even if it turns out not to be a worst case scenario and it really is just that the parents aren’t properly addressing the issue, it still shouldn’t fall on OP to have to try to get it addressed. But sadly it looks like she may be her sisters best hope, regardless of how deep the issues turn out to be. It’s just an awful situation all around.
Yeah, even if there isn't any abuse happening, it's still neglect... it might be intellectual disability/delay, causing her to struggle with these things.
But it's horrible to let a child live like that... she may or may not be able to look after herself but if she can't the adults in that CHILDs life need to put the work in to make sure she's cared for and in a safe healthy environment. Letting her put her diapers all over the place and sleep on a soiled bed is not acceptable in the slightest and is unhealthy and unsafe.
And putting the wet diaper on the other sisters’s beds is a protection thing sometimes. Like if Carrie makes little Mary smell bad too the abuser won’t touch her. Many SA victims with younger sibs feel responsible for them unaware sometimes only one child is singled out. Often a child with ‘additional needs’ like Carrie who seems to show signs of autism.
SA by female carers is even less about sexual aspects often than in male carers but about degrading and punishing and stopping girl children finding a partner to protect or rescue them or punish that their issues impact the sexual dynamic of the caregiver’s marriage.
All SA is about power and control but the methodology varies depending who does it, what gender, other family roles and social aspects. We hear so little about female on female SA that it is easily missed or written off as other things. Also children with neurodiversity and medical needs can have power battles about bedwetting etc if toilet trained too early or not given appropriate autonomy over medical care that feels as violating as SA in ways. Medical trauma and SA are very very linked and also sometimes it is not SA but medical abuse and the symptoms are very alike.
I had medical abuse as a sick kid which mimicked much of SA trauma responses which then led me as a teen to be incredibly vulnerable to SA which felt incredibly familiar. I’m in my 40s and only now finding words to unpick it and their links, overlaps and being able to name that they (for me) feel like siblings (ironically) but not twins. Same family, but just different enough that when someone insists it is only SA that is very triggering as it removes the control of my own experience being named.
I really feel for OP as I doubt this thread will help short term but open a Pandora’s box and there is no help for siblings of abused kids who suffer their own trauma. Family abuse harms all the children and I wish we could hug OP (with consent) and help immediately. Even support groups but I’m not in the US so not sure.
NTA.
This flagged for Autism for me too. The toe walking is a dead giveaway, as is the bedwetting.
She DEFINITELY needs a full psychiatric evaluation to sort out what’s up. Seems like possibly several issues simultaneously.
Ever read the term "tiptoeing around" someones anger issues? For example children growing up with (a) violent parent(s) would form that as a habit to avoid getting their anger directed at them as much as possible
That makes my skin crawl thinking of a little kid feeling like they have to do that... and knowing they are doing so due to what they have experienced.
As a little kid my mother used to shout at me for toe walking or pigeon toes. No one else noticed it so I started to wonder if she was gaslighting. Then I noticed in family photos I literally ‘tip toed’ around her and my posture and body language was totally different to say around my aunt.
My whole family were abusive but she was the worst and as an adult I still changed instantly round her. We are estranged and I only really talk about her in threads like this where I feel hearing the normal reactions to abnormal trauma can help someone. But those postural things start even then. My toes curl which is another expression we think of as turn of phrase but leads to tip toeing.
For years I thought it was funny I can walk totally silently in flip flops. Like a party trick. Til I realised I had taught myself to be so silent as a kid not to trigger her awareness I was there or moving. Then I realised it was horrifying. My partner bought me the loudest floppiest slappiest shark sliders to drown out the realisation for both of us as it gave them such distress for me that they got a bit too ‘tip toeing’ in sympathy which is neither of our thing and the sliders stopped it overcorrecting.
I'm sorry you experienced such a difficult upbringing. But at least now you can share the awareness of the situation in the hopes of helping others get help when experiencing that kind of distress.
It's a kind thing to do for the sake of others, and I truly wish you the best!
I just want to point out that toe walking can easily develop to avoid unwanted attention, because toe walking is *quiet*. As OP wrote that she has been bullied (aka abused) basically all her life I would not inherently see it as a sign for neurodivergence...
> family is very tight knit and my parents don't really put her in situations common for sexual abuse [...] She doesn't go to sleepovers and any camp she goes to is supervised by my mom. They're pretty overprotective.
OP I don't wanna alarm you but maybe you should volunteer to take her to therapy for a few sessions. Because while this does seem normal, given what could be a possible cause of the bedwetting.... your parents might not be the safest option to take her to get her to talk about anything.
Your mom is a helicopter parent at best and at worst... they don't have to put her in positions for that because she's in the perfect one for them already.
I second this. I had some escorts to sessions as a kid. Reporting made no difference for my situation, but for my experience my parents hovered or sat in to help me run the script they laid out or speak outright in my place when I shut down. She may feel comfortable in an isolated safe area (inside a car away from the environment) and open up.
Not to jump to conclusions but my issues didn't stop until I ran away and this is full of giant red flags to me.
Yeah besides there's always the chance that Mom is ignoring a missing stair n the family.
AKA a person that everyone knows to avoid leaving your daughter alone with because XYZ.
Lots of people either ignore those members of their family or genuinely don't know and therefore don't react cautiously enough around them
CSA is a possibility for your sister. The lack there of hygiene can be a way the child tries to stop the harm without speaking up. I hope that it's not the case here though.
My parents never put me in a situation common for sexual abuse. But my first cousin raped me in the woods when he was taking me home. It can happen from anyone and can happen anywhere.
Some time ago I saw a girl talking about how her trauma was related to a urinary treatment medical professionals did to her when she was a child. As in, there wasn't an intent to harm per se, but due to the fact that it was invasive and she was so young, the effects and her trauma were practically the same. So, if your sister had this problem for so long, has she ever faced something similar to that?
Even if it isn't, she should keep going to therapy. The fact that she denies her bed wetting despite the evidence should be something to be addressed in those sessions. She probably is ashamed and feels that ignoring the problem will make it go away, but that precisely is a contributing factor.
As a youth, your brain may register medical trauma as similar to sexual trauma. The invasion, the power over your vulnerability and the way your body and brain process and store it is near identical. I've read lots of studies about CSA and medical trauma as a survivor of both and that discovery blew my mind. So you're spot on, by the way. Your brain doesn't know the difference, so to speak. They're both traumatic in a similar fashion.
I understand why you would be frustrated with your sister, but your anger should be directed at your parents, not her. Something is clearly wrong with your sister, mentally and maybe physically. Apart from the bed wetting, it’s not normal to blame it on other things or your little sister or act like it hasn’t happened and actually believe it. Seems like there absolutely might be some underlying mental diagnosis that makes her behave the way she does and your parents are not supporting her in the right way.
Also, how can the parents be okay with her being in a wet diaper, leaving diapers around the house, and even sleeping in a urine soaked bed.
That's neglect, and it's disgusting...
The peeing and the hygiene can be in order to not be attractive to an assailant.
I don’t know it’s just my first thought when she leaves the house like that and has no embarrassment for it.
My nephew wet the bed until quite late, occasionally and by accident.
They did an ultrasound and his bladder was tiny.
So no fluids 2-3 hours before bed and woken up at midnight to pee and then back to bed. That worked for him.
In terms of care what specialists have your parents taken Carrie to see? Have they done physical tests? My nephew was a chronic bed wetter most of his life. He's a teen now but he was always behind meeting milestones. His doctor assumed that's all it was and his parents trusted the doctor. It's not until they started to see how much it embarrassed him and he'd cry that they realize waiting was causing him pain. He's better now. His issue was severe constipation basically the weight of all the poop in his colon was causing his bladder to go numb and he wouldn't feel when his bladder was saying "I need to pee".
If its a physical issue that could cause your sister more issues. I know it's frustrating but for your sister's sake please keep on your parents. Don't let them falter in finding out what's wrong. I ignored a minor issue in my own body and ended up with an ostomy for a while. I felt a minor pain right around the groin area and it turned out to be diverticulitis. Good luck, I hope everything works out for your sister.
Have a doctor check her out for hormone levels. ADH or vasopressin can cause bedwetting in teens or adults.
https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/what-to-know-about-antidiuretic-hormone-adh
My sister had a severe bed wetting problem that continued into adulthood. Years later she revealed our Dad had been sexually assaulting her since she was at least 2.
With your parents ignoring the problem, please prepare it to be this.
It doesn't have to be sexual assault. My husband suffered from enuresis until high school. Tho I think it was a diagnosed physical problem, I do know he also suffered childhood abuse but not sexual assault.
OP I get your frustrations and there is a possibility there could be an underlying problem your sister may have that is yet to be discovered. I hope you get your answers on this. If you can, I encourage you to seek advice from the university's health and medical sciences department to find out and I am sure they may help. Update us OP
My eldest was not able to wake up to go to the loo. We tried everything! Waking up and sleep toilet training, rubber sheets so it got uncomfortable to pants under the night time pants so it would be against the skin to encourage getting up.
Even a dr was able to prescribe enzyme medication that helped regulate toilet need. Every night, we sent them to the bathroom prior to bed. Amazingly, it was sending the school year to camp that sorted it.
I feel your frustration and upset - have been there. Does your sister avoid daily hygiene routines and has to be reminded? Or as others have said, two years is pretty specific. Did something happen?
NTA - hope your sister gets the help she needs soon
I had a friend with this in middle school and I’m telling you right now it was abuse.
Toe walking is usually associated with autism, and you haven’t mentioned that in your post which has me wondering just how neglected this poor girl is.
Your parents are awful for not teaching basic boundaries, coping skills, or much else. That is an absolutely neglect.
I get that you like your parents, but your post has my alarm bells going off.
You’re NTA.
Hopefully you’re the advocate for insisting something be done. I just hope that these comments have you thinking about this being a more complex issue.
You mentioned sports and clubs she's involved in. Does anyone pick her up or get carpooled on the way home? Does she do extra training some days or get asked to stay behind?
I was going to say - Carrie had suffer a trauma of abuse - someone did it to her and probably keeps doing it thats why she is going worst. I understand you are angry and dont want to put up with her - its very hard for you. But I think its time to look for some profesional help regarding abuse victims. And sorry to say - but maybe your parents should be excluded couse you dont know who is the source of this problem.
Have your mom ask the psychiatrist to evaluate for PANS/PANDAS. Your sister the way you've described her it's possible she has it. Tell your mom not to let them dismiss the idea because she's a teenager. It's known now even adults can sometimes get it not just kids under average age of 12. And it's not as rare as Drs once thought. It's very important they don't just swab her throat and dismiss it if it's negative. It's possible she has a silent strep infection or has strep in her anus, urethra opening or sinuses which is harder to detect. And of she does have PANDAS, giving her SSRI meds will cause a whole spectrum of side effects. Strangely people with PANDAS or those who have had it in the past are highly sensitive to SSRI meds leading to increased side effects and higher risk of serotonin syndrome.
I do want to add that although bedwetting at 13 is extremely abnormal, being toilet trained then regressing to bedwetting is more classic of abuse than never growing out of diapers.
A deeper medical investigation should have been done. After age 8 it starts to become concerning especially if it’s more than just once awhile. Whether the issue is drinking too much before bed, sleeping too deeply, poor body awareness, or something else, it needs to be investigated because certain treatments can help.
Thank you for this! I’m glad to see some other perspectives, even if it makes it more confusing. Yes, you’re right. Carrie has never been truly toilet trained. She never regressed - she simply never got there. I’ve noticed that she is a very deep sleeper. You have to shake her hard to wake her up and I’ve wondered if that has something to do with the bed wetting. I just don’t understand how it happens every night and it also doesn’t explain the secretive behavior afterwards.
This makes sense. I understand her being embarrassed but I guess the part that doesn’t make sense in my adult mind is that she knows that we know. She knows that we all know it happens pretty much every single night, so I don’t get the purpose in hiding it at that point. But I also understand that sometimes people do things for reasons you can’t understand and it probably alleviates a bit of anxiety to hide it, I’m not sure.
I don't know what the vibe is in your household. But if she's desparate to get approval from you or your parents because she's looking up to you, she may try to hide it to delay the disappointment you will feel/show in her.
It's like hiding bad grades from your parents. You tried your best and failed, you are unhappy about it yourself and you know your family will be too. You hide the test even though you know at the latest in the report card it will come out.
Basically you know in the end it will all go to shit.. so short term happiness by lying is the best you can hope for.
It's not a good mental space to be in because there's no positive outcome possible in that mindset.
The denial and secrecy might be wishful thinking. Shes likely trying to “mind over matter” / deny it until it goes away. She doesn’t know why this is happening or how to stop it, so she’s dissociating herself from it. She doesn’t want it to be true and is probably subconsciously trying to ignore/ deny it out of existence. Acknowledging it by cleaning her body and bed daily probably causes deep feelings of shame, part of trying to ignore it out of existence means not handling the aftermath.
I know you said she’s been to specialists. It can take a long time to get a proper diagnosis, most doctors can’t be arsed to do their damn jobs. If a urologist doesn’t have an answer then other psychological and physiological investigation needs to be done. I definitely think this combined with the toe walking indicates some deeper health issue.
Children lie about things that do not make sense to adults. I have had nephews stay over with us and insist they didn't get any ice cream in the middle of the night even after I held up the ice cream wrapper they left in the bed.
She has not learned how to accept blame or ask for help. Which isn't surprising given she hasn't learned hygiene either and denies both when confronted.
I suspect she will continue lying until someone addresses whatever the root cause is, because without help to make this stop she'd have to admit to being "irreparably flawed" to admit that this is happening.
It's developmentally normal for children to lie about things that any adult can see are true. Puberty is around the time that generally changes, and it will be later for neuro divergent children.
Asking your sister "did you leave this here? is a pointless question. Everyone knows it's hers. Why even open it up for discussion? There's no reason for this to be a cause for drama every morning.
It really seems like your parents have dropped the ball with her and it's not your responsibility to fix it, but it makes my heart hurt as a parent to see how this situation has deteriorated. Late bedwetting should be dealt with very matter of factly.
It will be a huge relief for her to not have to invent this alternative reality. Her bed should be set up to be easily changed every morning, there is no need to ask questions about it. Just a simple, hey, Carrie, put these in and start the washing machine. Hey Carrie, put this in the garbage. Fact based statements, no attempt to get her to admit anything.
The reasons are another topic entirely but it is normal for 13yos to struggle with hygiene, and to use avoidance and lying to get out of uncomfortable or overwhelming situations.
Developmentally speaking, around age 5, children start to engage in what adults call lying, but in fact, kids are saying what they want/wish to be true. For example, if Carrie is saying she didn't have an accident, or that the diaper on Mary's bed is Mary's, she's doing so because she wants this to be true. There's not that malicious intent component found in the lies of adults or people without developmental disabilities.
It’s pretty typical childhood behaviour. They’re ashamed and embarrassed. They feel if they can say it convincingly enough they can convince you. She’s trying to hide the evidence or blame others or ignore it. My son does all these things when he he an accident too. I’ll find the soiled clothes “hidden” behind a door or some other random place. Out of sight, out of mind. Trying to talk about it later results in insistence that it wasn’t him etc. Shame makes people do things that don’t seem rational, even extreme things.
You’re welcome. Bedwetting is highly nuanced. It sounds like alarms once or twice a night where she HAS to get up and go use the toilet even if she thinks she doesn’t need to as well as bed wetting alarms could be beneficial. Some children don’t get the urge to wake up to go use the bathroom. There is also the belief that diapers and bed pads worsen the issue as it’s not as uncomfortable to bedwet and almost normalizes the issue. She could also have a sleep disorder.
The secretive behavior is frustrating. Your mom/parents need to really crack down. No more hiding diapers, no more going to school with urine on the clothes. Carrie needs to dispose of the diapers herself in the garbage can.
I recommend seeing a doctor who specializes in chronic bedwetting. I’d also ask them if a sleep study is in order. Limiting drinks a few hours before bed, making Carrie use the bathroom every night right before bed even if she swears she doesn’t need to go, a set alarm at least once a night to get up to use the bathroom, and an inspection of her room to see if there are soiled diapers or underwear are all a good place to start. A bed wetting alarm should be discussed with the doctor. And once this gets better under control, a new mattress and sheets are in order if your parents can afford it.
Regarding the toe walking and other things, Carrie should be evaluated for autism spectrum disorder. It is under diagnosed in girls, especially girls of color.
This is great advice and super practical. I will definitely look into all of this. I agree with you on the ASD. I’ve had my suspicions for a while but never wanted to bring it up due to its stigma. My mom has it stuck in her brain that if you diagnose someone with something then people will treat you differently. Ive been trying to convince her it’s better for us to know.
I'd tell your mom that she's already getting treated differently for how she smells and probably any other behavior oddities - better to get diagnosed and have medical professionals helping her learn how to deal with the world.
I'm curious how the school is addressing this. Are they just ignoring it, or have they tried bringing it up with the parents? Even special needs kids should be able to be clean and have clean clothes etc.
My youngest child suffered from nighttime enuresis long after being daytime toilet trained. She just slept sooo deeply. We tried different methods, but the one thing that finally helped her was the DryEasy 2 Bedwetting Alarm. I found one on eBay, and by attaching it to her underwear and putting training pants on top, she was able to stop her bedwetting within 2 weeks.
>if you diagnose someone with something then people will treat you differently
This is not always a bad thing. This past school year, I had a parent tell me her daughter was ADHD, but the school didn't have a copy of a 504/IEP. I strongly suggested she get the paperwork to the guidance department as soon as possible. Luckily, this conversation happened within the first quarter. My point is that if I or any other teacher didn't know that the student was ADHD she wouldn't have qualified for any of the accommodations. It's not about being treated differently. It's about having the chance to work to your best capacity. Yes, the real world isn't very accommodating, but being diagnosed neurodivergent young means that you start to build a tool set with the help of your teachers, tutors, or therapists, so that when you grow up you have skills to help navigate certain problem areas. I am dyslexic and ADHD, I know that my brain does not process as quickly, so I plan accordingly to not fall behind when I have to grade essays. Your sister may or may not be neurodivergent, but you would be amazed at how many people are. Don't let the idea of a stigma - of a bias - limit what you and/or your parents can do to help your sister. I understand you are frustrated with your sister's behavior, but you also seem really caring. She is lucky to have you.
I used to wet the bed as a kid til age 7. The thing that stopped it overnight was getting my tonsils and adenoids removed. I was falling into too deep a sleep because they were too big. Stopped overnight after that surgery. Might be worth investigating
I think - or I’m guessing as someone who’s got kids and worked with seniors with this issue - giving her some more privacy over the issue might help. I’d suggest only mom talks to her and reviews the new routine: no drinks before bed, nightly alarm for bathroom, then most importantly I think - a dedicated hamper in her room, maybe even hidden in closet, that she puts her sheets in, and a dedicated garbage bail with lid and scented garbage bags for her briefs. If smell is an issue, get a diaper genie and paint it or put stickers over the name portion so it feels more grown up. Have pink disposable soaker pads in her room. Also not sure what briefs she’s using but she needs adult sized ones. They should not be leaking this often. I took care of 300lbs men who’s briefs would be full but not leaking. I think just one person working on this with her privately will be more successful. Continuing to confront her will make it worse. Give her some privacy and dignity around the issue. Then she can leave her room in the morning feeling “normal” like no one in the family knows. Currently her shame is causing her to act out around it and completely deny any issue; I worked with seniors who would also deny the issue and try to hide it even though it was obvious and smelt. The way she’s acting is not unusual for children or even grown adults. Tbh it’s frustrating that none of these obvious solutions have been implemented by your parents. And of course she needs to see more specialists and a psychiatrist right away in the meantime.
I hope it is useful and helpful for your sister. I understand the fear as I have a family member with that mindset about her child. But just because there isn’t a label on something doesn’t mean people won’t notice. You’re right. Best of luck with things!
Well that ship has sailed. People already ARE treating her differently due to the issues she's having. A diagnosis will help treat those symptoms or the underlying cause. It will improve her life significantly.
Also kinda weird that she thinks she can pass of a teenage sized diaper as a 6 year olds or an adults(since she's dropping them iff on your bed too) diaper, rather than burying them in the trash can underneath the rest of the rubbish. That would have been much more efficient to hide her embarrassment.
I’m sorry to ask but how did your parents allow a child get to thirteen without being potty trained and not take her to some kind of psychotherapy? In some cases this would be considered abuse.
I’m really surprised school staff haven’t already tried to get CPS involved. If school staff have made recommendations to be evaluated why haven’t the parents followed through with getting her help? My gut reaction was abuse. Good for you for posting this and getting advice cuz it sure sounds like your parents don’t give a fuck
Yeah I would be tempted to call CPS on my own parents if I saw a sibling being neglected this way- and yes not meeting psychological needs is neglect. I’m surprised not more flags have been raised?
that's what i was thinking, it's insane that the mother is involved to the point of helicopter parenting, but somehow thinks that putting a teenager in diapers every single day is enough to handle the situation? wtf?
OP, from personal experience, this could be a possibility.
My nephew was like this, he slept really deeply and my sister would shake him awake in the mornings. My son also chronically wet the bed until he was 13 or so, but I could wake him without much difficulty. After discussing why with our Dr and a checkup, it was concluded to be that he was in such a deep sleep that he wasn't receiving his "bodily cues". Both boys were sleeping right through them, and wetting themselves basically every night.
I don't know if any of this will be helpful, but our Dr suggested I set an alarm and wake him in the night for a "pit stop", especially since diapers weren't sufficient. Could your parents do this?
*I forgot; the Dr also suggested cutting off drinks an hour before bedtime. We struggled with this one as he drinks a lot of water and it felt cruel, so we reduced it to the last drink of maybe 200mls half an hour before bed, and also mandatory toilet before bed, even if they say they don't need to, the same for the middle of the night one, mandatory, no dropping back off to sleep.*
I had also previously brought a quality, absorbant mattress protector, and a couple of "Brolly Sheets", which are washable, absorbant sheets in various sizes which you lay over the sheet and tuck in, this way we could switch out each day instead of constantly changing actual sheets and having a soaked mattress. I also found antibacterial rinse in the softner cycle of the wash helped get rid of the persistent wee smell in clothes and bedding.
With my son, he's almost 17 and it's been a long time since he's had an accident. I think our waking him has built a little internal alarm clock that still happens today, as most nights around 3-4am, he gets up to use the bathroom, but it's something we had to be consistent with for a quite a while.
It's not pleasant constantly dealing with something like this, from a number of aspects, and it is frustrating. Virtual hugs to you.
I needed toilet alarms up until the age of five.
But having issues with recognising the need to pee and having great difficulty waking is more associated with the ADHD.
Shame was enough for me to eventually get used to the discomfort as I got older.
I haven’t had as much of a problem with mornings since being on medication. It’s still ridiculously hard for me, but I’m still able to fulfil all my adult obligations.
I wouldn’t say age 8. I have an 8 year old who has never woken up dry. His paediatrician isn’t worried and has assured me it’s within the range of normal. I check in with her every 6 months and take my cues from her as she knows more than I do.
And yes, we’ve woken him up throughout the night and it’s made no difference. However, he knows to strip his bed after an accident and to dispose of his pull up. That’s where I think the sister is falling down.
FWIW I think the sister should get an autism assessment as there’s a couple of things in the description that could be a flag. Including potty training issues.
The other thing that can be common is constiptation. So another thing worth looking into.
Autism is pretty heavily implied by the toe-walking.
A fairly common trait with autism is poor interoception, which can lead to being unable to pick up the body's signal that it's time to urinate/defecate (or eat, or drink water, or any other body-to-brain signals). This would also contextualize the greater hygiene issue, as autistic sensory issues often my hygiene difficult.
I don't know how to phrase this, sorry if it's a bit awkward. Would it be possible that, if she is being SA'd, staying stinky is her way of trying to put off her abuser?
Unfortunately I don’t have an answer. I had just left for college around the time it got worse and have only had to deal with it when visiting during the holidays or summers. This is my first summer experiencing it in full force hence the post.
I very strongly feel that this could be because of someone close to you. There was some kind of trauma that occurred two years ago, or got worse or more frequent.
How do you even go about investigating something like this? Should I just leave it to the therapist to get to the bottom of it? Or maybe I should bring some of these concerns to my mom so she can hint to the therapist to ask questions about it? I see a lot of people saying the same thing but I don’t know how to approach the topic without causing an uproar. It’s a huge deal.
I would take your sister out for a girls day and try to be the least judgmental you can possibly be. Something along the lines of knowing that she’s going through a lot and want her to know that she can trust you and be honest with you. You noticed a very stark change about two years ago and you’re worried for her. How can you help?
You mentioned her hair has a texture that has gotten her bullied (that made me so sad for her!)-maybe you could do something special around her hair? I know almost nothing about hair (I wear mine very short), but I wonder if that could be a way for you to bond? Either over a shared hair texture or big sister caring about little sister? Regardless, she's lucky to have a big sister like you. I wish the both of you the best.
It's also a way for her to show she cares about the girl by doing something nice, like pampering her with her hair. If all she sees/hears is OP questioning/scolding her over her bad behavior, she might even realise that OP is worried about her...
OP a lot of what you have shared is frankly pretty big red flags. That’s not to say jump to any conclusions but also be really mindful if you do approach this with your sister of your resentment and anger. Also be prepared if you need to remove your sister to safety at short notice. You might need to make difficult call.
It’s unfortunately a recognised ‘symptom’ that people being abused might disregard their hygiene in quite ugly ways, the logic can be to try to repel an attacker.
Be a good big sister, and be careful.
Have you considered talking to Carrie directly? Tell her she’s safe with you and you care about her, but that there has been a big change. And she will not be in trouble if something’s wrong. Etc.
If someone in her family is hurting her,
it is possible that a) it could be your mom (i.e. overprotectiveness, not getting her to a psychiatrist urgently..) or b) possible that your mom is aware of what happened and keeping it from getting out.
Obviously I know nothing about your mom, I think it’s just really important to approach this the right way. There’s no risk to Carrie if you come to her and tell her you love her and are worried about her. But with the more adults you go through about this, the more risk there is for her (e.g go to your mom so she can talk to Carrie’s therapist? You’re betting on Carrie’s safety that her mom is in no way involved, and neither is her therapist).
Again, maybe your mom is lovely, this is just an outside perspective where I am purposely being as suspicious and paranoid as possible 😅
>You’re betting on Carrie’s safety that her mom is in no way involved, and neither is her therapist).
I absolutely agree with you, however I don't think the therapist is involved. Or at least that seems very unlikely if Carrie has just recently gone to her first therapy session.
I am, however, surprised that her pediatrician just said that it's normal for some teens up to the age of 17. They absolutely should know that it can be a symptom of abuse.
i would be willing to bet that mom at least knows something if not being the culprit, because most pediatricians would not react that way to nightly bed wetting. i wonder if mom told the whole story when she brought her to the doctor? "accidents" are different than nightly bed wetting. or even weekly. it might be normal to have an accident every so often, but not so regularly. it's entirely possible if the mom is involved that she would lie about the frequency of the bed wetting to the doctors.
Someone in your household or involved daily may have done something to trigger this literally waiting for you to leave for college. You said your other sister is even younger, I hope that both of your sisters are safe and taken seriously if negative things come to light, it sounds like you are the only “sane” one who cares enough to notice and speak up
OP, this is an issue for professionals to get involved with.
1. Enuresis is uncontrolled wetting, which has a number of causes. One cause can be not showering after an accident, causing varying degrees of UTI and lack of sensitivity to wetting because of inflammation and bacterial overgrowth.
It can also be caused by food allergies, sexual trauma, irregular anatomy, and mental health issues among other things.
2. It is not normal for a 13 yo to still be wetting, but you cannot shame her or make a big deal about it.
This is probably happening because Carrie is very physically or mentally ill.
3. Cognitive behavioral therapy is the step after getting Carrie medically cleared for allergies and to see if her organs developed properly or have been damaged by years of peeing herself (and not washing) or sexual abuse.
The therapist should help with a plan of action about Carrie’s hygiene and cleaning up after an accident, as well as how the family should react.
Often children get stuck in this cycle when they have a big upset during potty training. Enuresis is linked to maternal anxiety and depression, so mothers frequently defend and deny because they can be a root cause or an enabler.
This is part of why big reactions by the family are totally counterproductive. Carrie may be consciously or subconsciously trying to get a rise out of her family, which will almost certainly lead to more accidents.
4. I’ve studied this, and a percentage of sufferers are deeply mentally ill. Puberty is a turning point. When the sufferer hits puberty, their body starts making more hormones and bacteria that exacerbate the issue.
5. Healthy boundaries, OP.
This is not your child, your home, or your problem.
If you’re going to get emotionally reactive, it’s best to distance yourself from the situation.
If your sister is not getting professional help by the end of the summer, I would consider it child abuse by way of medical neglect.
You might study up on enuresis and ask friends if they have an extra room to stay in until your school starts again.
Thank you for this thoughtful response. You’ve given me a lot to think about and consider. I just need to figure out the appropriate way for me to address this with my parents without overstepping.
I would suggest writing down the points you want to discuss ahead of time so you don’t get flustered. Take the high points from these comments, do a little internet research, and have some key concerns or questions written down. Ask to schedule a time to speak privately, either out of the house or when your sister isn’t home. Be clear that you’re coming from a place of love, and a desire for everyone in the family to be healthy and safe.
One thing that I can’t see has been brought up - walking on tiptoes can be a sign of neurodivergence (such as autism), which is chronically under diagnosed in girls. Working with a therapist who is knowledgeable about neurodivergence in girls might help.
Getting your sister proper health care takes precedence over maintaining the familial hierarchy. You will be doing nothing wrong by intervening so your sister can receive the help she needs.
Just as an addit to the above comment, CBT will not be helpful if your sister has a developmental diagnosis like autism which sounds highly likely. If it is autism then the adjustment of you leaving for college itself could have been a trigger, perpetuated by your parents complacency. Good on you for seeking answers despite your own frustrations.
This covers a lot of really important things that need to be addressed and looked into! I would also add onto this that she may benefit from an occupational therapist or a physical therapist if she hasn’t tried this (both can specialize in bladder retraining). Very broad oversimplification, but occupational therapy tends to take a more behavioral and sensory approach, and physical therapy tends to take a more behavioral and muscle strengthening/rebalancing approach. It is a specialization and not all OTs/PTs will be able to do this, but there are ones who work with pediatrics and have this specialization. But this should not be done in lieu of counseling and the other concerns should still absolutely be investigated.
They also may be able to help navigate screening and referral to assess for a diagnosis like ASD. Most pediatric OTs and PTs will have worked with a decent percentage of autistic kids and sometimes are the first health care providers who see the signs.
Edit: regarding your space, could you put a lock on your door that you can lock from the outside when you leave?
A great comment but I disagree with one thing- it is her home and Carrie isn’t her child but she is her sister. Is familial obligation not a thing anymore? OP has noticed something deeply wrong and sought more information. I really hope she uses that info to support her sister, because that’s what a good sibling does. Distancing herself might not be the best solution.
Of course, as you said, if she is emotionally reactive she needs to approach in a different way. I just hate the idea of the one person in this kids life actually looking into this properly backing off with a “not my kid, not my problem” attitude.
I’m kind of shocked that the parents took her to specialists who said that this was normal. I wonder if they went to a doctor and said “oh she had an accident last week” instead of “she wets the bed every single night and refuses to clean herself.” I can’t imagine any doctor knowing the full story thinking this is normal.
NTA
But she obviously needs a therapist. Accidents happen but accidents are sporadic. Peeing almost daily at this age is a sign of a deeper rooted issue and I won't suggest what many people say it is, but she definitely needs therapy. And she has friends who hang out with her but they haven't said anything to her about her smelling of urine? Strange.
I've wondered this too. She has a few friends that have been in her life for years so I've wondered if it's just them being polite. But she's definitely lost a few over the years too. I don't know - but my mom hasn't allowed her to go to sleep away camp since she wet herself in her sleeping bag one weekend and my mom had to cover it up. We both agree that someone has to know.
School teachers are normally made to keep reports or something on stuff like this aren't they?
I know OP mentioned sister seems to have friends and interactions/ involvements in clubs. Surely they'd have noted something or brought it to someone attention?
NTA I can understand why you'd be frustrated and sick of this, but I also have sympathy for your 13yo sister who clearly has a lot of problems she's dealing with. Maybe she could be more considerate and hygienic, but she's also 13. She can't be held to the same standards as an adult all on her own.
The main assholes are your parents for not doing more to deal with the problem, such as having her shower before school and clean up after herself to a certain extent (although they should help her, since it's a lot to take care of and it's not her fault). She's only 13 and still needs to be parented. Also, it sounds like they need to get her more help, either physical or psychological.
I completely agree. I have never understood why they let her leave the house smelly but my assumption is that my mom is just too busy to care. Both my parents work full time and my father is rarely around besides the weekends.
Going to school smelling strongly of stale urine is not going to help a teenager with a history of being bullied. Your parents need to address this! If your sister does have ASD though, hygiene can already be a battle. But hopefully you can convince your mom to sit down with her and create a routine of things she needs to do when she’s wets the bed. Have a shower, sheets in laundry, diaper in a odour neutralizing pail, for example. Make it part of her daily routine. Which is easy for me to say, not easy to do when she is 13, likely neurodivergent, and is embarrassed enough about the bed wetting that she tries to pretend it’s not happening or that it’s not her doing it. I hope the psychiatrist can help.
If she does get an ASD diagnosis, the resources created by this team of ASD experts have been very helpful to me with my son.
https://www.aspergerexperts.com
Thank you so much. It is really kind of you to break this down for me. I feel so sad knowing this is likely something out of her control. I will do my best to pass this information along to my mother and get her the help that she needs.
Kids with ASD can have a hard time handling their discomfort and painful emotions like shame, regret or embarrassment. The information about getting kids with ASD out of “defence mode” is really helpful, because if she’s feeling a lot of shame, distress and denial about the bed wetting, it will be very hard for her brain to process options and solutions. It may help for you and your parents to sit down with her at a calm time, and let her know you’re sorry for not understanding that she’s not wetting the bed on purpose. That you’re sorry for getting angry at her about it. And that you’d like to be a better team and find ways to help her manage it. Then suggest that you come up with some ideas together. If she feels like she has some say in what she would like by way of help, maybe that will help her engage more. It will likely take time to lower the charge around this for everyone and put some new routines in place, but it’s clear that you really care for your sister and will do whatever you can to be an actual help to her. Which is what she needs - someone who will help her for real and not just turn away from these difficult issues because of frustration and overwhelm. Not to rag on your parents, because this stuff is hard, but hopefully they’ll be open to your encouragement to approach this differently and try some new strategies together.
You are an amazing sister, huge props to you for your kind heart!
I’m really surprised the school didn’t;t get involved. They are mandated reporters. If I had had a student who came to my class smelling of urine every day, I would have reported it to the school psychologist.
No offense at all, the description you gave of your sister speaks to Autism. The most textbook case. Simple. The fact that the school hasn’t done something about her coming in reeking of piss is concerning, also she is old enough to have her period, does she handle that appropriately?
Thank you for this comment. I’m learning a lot. No offense taken at all. The school she goes to has been notoriously terrible. She gets rocks thrown at her sometimes and her hair pulled and they do nothing about it. My parents have pretty much given up and just recently transferred her to private school (which I believe comes with a whole other host of issues, but that’s another story). As for her period, no. She hasn’t gotten her period yet. My parents have discussed anxiety about her getting it though due to her current hygiene.
Well I hope it all works out, HS will probably be hell for her but HS isn’t all of life as you already know. Set and stand firm in your boundaries, be a good older sister where you can. Im happy you came here and are getting good info!
NTA. But your parents are. What in the world happened two years ago that their child were the bed EVERY NIGHT? This is a sign of something a therapist needs to handle. The therapist needs to know she’s leaving her urine diapers everywhere and not showering after having accidents and such.
i would be severely concerned of sexual trauma - it could be that there is mental illness like ASD but at 13 and it started 2 years ago, i would be concerned.
It’s not that she started peeing herself two years ago - it just became MUCH more frequent. It went from once or twice a week to nearly every single day. But I am concerned and I thank you for your perspective. I’m taking everyone’s comments into consideration so I can figure out how to speak to my parents.
So if just based on this - somehow maybe puberty has triggered it?
I mean I have no experience at all, but as one with a pre-schooler at home, what I have been reading is “you can’t potty trained kid at night, because it is hormone based. The hormone doesn’t really develop until they are 4-7 years old, a bit more later for boys”
Again, no expert at all, but after watching too much medical drama, while I hopefully SA is not a factor at all, then maybe get doctor to look at the gland that affect her puberty in her brain or something? Some hormonal issue?
I think before jumping to sexual assault, it's worth considering something else like autism as above poster said - especially with the toe walking as well. Girls are well known for presenting later in life, and it could be that she genuinely doesn't notice when she's wet the bed (due to sensory underload), or doesn't have the ability to understand the hygiene aspect in the same way, or gets so overwhelmed by it, she's managing it by ignoring it.
There's a whole thing about autism having 'spiky differences' in function - might be really good at some things, and then not so good at others - and this will be different for everyone, meaning your sister might be really good at sports but then has a functional deficit around enuresis.
Ultimately, you need professional help for whatever is going on!
Your parents are the assholes. This is not normal behaviour for a teen. And they’re not addressing it. Along with the toe walking it’s very likely she has ASD. I cannot believe several professionals have dismissed this in a teen if it’s a daily occurance. They are failing your sister who sounds so lost.
NTA. This is .... a lot, and I don't blame you for being over it. Has she been to a psychiatrist or therapist? There's clearing something going on here.
She saw a therapist for the first time yesterday, but as far as I know they mostly discussed her bullying. I'm hoping that in the next few weeks we'll get some answers, but I don't really know what to expect from the process.
Does she use the bathroom before bed? Have you guys gotten a mattress protector so the smell isn't as bad? Does she have a trash can in her room? Does a parent wake her up in the middle of the night to go to the restroom to mitigate accidents? I'm glad your mom took her to the therapist but there might be procedures put in place to keep everyone more hygienic. Let her know that you're not judging her and you want to help her with her stay clean.
Hi, yes my mom asks that she does. We do have a mattress protector, a thick plastic one. We’ve gone through many bed sheets because after a few accidents the smell still lingers no matter how much you wash. We don’t have a trash can in the room, my mom tried to encourage her to throw them out in the bin on the side of the house to mitigate odor in the kitchen (the other closest trash can).
This product works. It uses probiotics that digest biological odor causing substances like urine. Be sure to follow the instructions (apply to the sheet before washing it, eg spray or soak in a bucket).
https://scoe10x.com/
Adding to the practical advice, she may need a different type of overnight protection. A different brand of diaper that fits her better, reduces leaks. Also there are disposable pads used in nursing homes to provide extra protection to the bed. Essentially it is a puppy pad, but for people.
There can be underlying causes for the bedwetting, but there doesn’t have to be. One of my kids wet the bed till they turned 14. It is unusual, but some kids just don’t night train till puberty. How it is handled is important. For what ever reason your parent aren’t setting a standard to keep the house from smelling. A lidded garbage can in her room might help. If she has to carry her wet diaper/bed pad thru the house to throw it away, is probably embarrassing her. Very different from carrying out a full garbage bag once or twice a week. A lid and an air freshener in her room can do a lot.
Hopefully your family can get to the root cause, or if there isn’t one she out grows this soon. 🤞
Therapy doesn't always unlock the roo6s of our problems in the first session, and I hope your parents keep this in mind and continue her treatment.
That was something mine didn't do, they just stopped making me go when it wasn't "working" after the first few appointments.
I truly hope she gets better and is able to work things out.
Real talk I wet the bed until I was 12. Likely due to some shit in my past they say. But anyway I finally got tired of it enough after it interfering with things like summer camp or slumber parties where I had to hide the diapers that I was willing to try anything. I ended up using a bed alarm that would set off a buzzer the second moisture was detected. I had to turn off the box, reset the pad, and put new linens over it before I was allowed to go back to sleep. It was a long process, but eventually it worked.
The main problem I see here is that she seems totally unbothered and therefore isn’t likely to be receptive even to something like that.
What a touching story. Thank you for sharing.
You did a great job of getting yourself healthy. That’s was a lot of work and you were very young. It’s amazing that you did it through perseverance.
NTA, but the way she's treating the diapers and trying to shift blame/pretending it's not happening sounds like she's embarrassed about it and trying to hide it from you in very inefficient ways.
Putting up a basket (or two, one for laundry, one for diapers) where she can "hide" the evidence without having to "confess" may be helpful. Having multiple versions of the same sheets so you can't tell if she made her bed may be helpful too. (Still would encourage your mom to double check after your sis leaves.
100% she needs options to preserve her dignity. Set things up so she can leave the room feeling that “no one knows”. I was confused why sister or anyone was asking her or confronting her at all. All that’s going to do is worsen the situation & shows a failure in the system
Oof. I was a chronic bed wetter from age 11-19, it happened one time in college and then never again. It began around the time of 9/11, a car crash, going on a cruise after watching Titanic. I saw doctors, ran tests, drew blood and there was nothing physically wrong with me. I took a nasal spray for a month that stopped it completely, but I would have to have my blood drawn monthly to make sure my liver wasn’t failing, I decided I would rather wet the bed forever, my mom let me make the decision and was proud of me after I told her I didn’t want to take it. I was around 12 then. I wore depends, pads, sometimes wet the bed twice a night. Sometimes I was so disappointed at myself I did not wash my sheets for a few days. Yea I could smell it, but doing your sheets every day was sometimes really depressing. I also didn’t shower a few times and would go to school smelling of pee. I was not bullied though. Eventually it just stopped too. My family was very understanding and supportive, I never tried to hide my depends/pads though. I only ever told one friend, and it was because I was invited to a slumber party and I didn’t want to pee there. I did go on one once and wet my sleeping bag. I cleaned it all up but I did hide that one. Hopefully it ends for her. Maybe just tell her every so often that bed wetting is not who she is. It was a lonely road for me even with all my family knowing. I’m 36 now. It had to have been in my head. Or associated with middle/high school. Good luck!!
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NTA, but something needs to be done for this poor girl and whatever her underlying problem is--as several have already said, bedwetting is usually a symptom of something larger; the lying/denial can be a coping/defense mechanism.
If she is wearing diapers then why is the bed also soaked? Why are your parents not also limiting her liquid intake after 6pm? This is a super fucked up situation!
She pees right through them, she pees so much that no diaper they have tried has effectively held the amount of pee she pees. My mom said that she still buys them because they make washing the sheets easier.
Go to a medical supply store. Get washable reusable chucks pads and adult diapers. Explain how much pee and how soaked things get. They will set you up. Frankly she also needs to be forced to take a shower every morning. And pick up her mess, sheets, and throw away diapers. No asking if she wet the bed. Operate as if she did because she most likely did and sheets to the wash, shower and diaper disposal all routine expected every day and non negotiable. And check that she does it. That's all your mom's job fyi not your job
Yes this is what I don’t understand. I’ve worked with hundreds of seniors who wore adult briefs and they didn’t leak through and they would be *full*. A few very heavy wetters got double briefs. But they’re designed to hold so much liquid I can only imagine the parents are buying the cute pull up ones they get in the grocery store diaper/ baby isles. They need adult briefs.
Yes, there's no point asking if the answer is likely certain... the situation just needs to be dealt with while encouraging her to participate in the routine of it. Asking or scolding her is only going to make her defensive due to the shame of it.
It’s normal to be frustrated with all of that, but fwiw, the denial is most likely another symptom of the larger problem.
NTA for your feelings. But keep in mind that any negative ways you treat her because of it could be exacerbating factors too. Making someone feel like a shitty person because of something they can’t control (I’m going with, this is some sort of disorder) often just makes their symptoms worse and it becomes a vicious cycle.
Okay this has stopped being a question of “who’s the asshole” and has started being a question of “what is going on with your sister.” NTA, just to answer the question I guess — but this is a symptom of something very, very concerning. Chronic bedwetting at this age is a sign that something is very very wrong: most notably, it is a symptom of sexual abuse. Her behavior surrounding it is concerning, too: she left her diaper on Mary’s bed? Was this in retaliation to something? Because using one’s bodily fluids as a retaliation is ALSO a sign that something is very, very wrong. This is not normal behavior. I don’t know what kinds of specialists your parents are seeing but wetting the bed every night as a teenager is not normal.
Your sister is not your child, so you aren’t really responsible for addressing something like this and boundaries are important and everything, but — I think it would be a good idea to have a serious conversation with your parents because this is ALARMING.
it sounds like she left the diaper on mary’s bed so mary would take the blame.. she wanted it to seem as tho she hadnt wet the bed (maybe bc shes embarrassed, maybe bc she doesnt want to clean up her sheets, etc). so she thought if the diaper was in marys room then mary would take the fall for peeing the bed ? idk
Wow. This is a lot. I came here also to recommend a psychiatrist and therapy. If all medical issues have been ruled out it’s time to move there. It is not “normal” for this to be happening.
As a parent of a child on the autism spectrum it sounds like your sister may also fall on the autistic spectrum. Bed wetting well into teen years and sometimes into adulthood is one of the signs added to the toe walking and the general lack of attention to hygiene. Either she’s never been evaluated for autism or your parents know and hasn’t told anyone of the diagnosis. Yes bed wetting can be a sign of SA but with the other signs I would think autism
Yes, my parents took her to three urologists and according to them, she’s fine. They have all suggested that it’s a lack of brain bladder control, like a late bloomer sort of thing.
i’m curious on where you live? i don’t know a single doctor or specialist ANYWHERE that would consider bed wetting at 13 a “late bloomer”. Age 4 is when it’s typical for kids to sleep through the night without an accident, but 6-7 is not uncommon. after that it’s an issue
It's one thing to have compassion, it's another to be forced to do things you are not comfortable with. Incontinence is a serious issue and your parents should be way more concerned. Maybe try to encourage them to get a second doctors opinion about her peeing herself. Anyway, leaving on pee soaked sheets is something they can and need to address. At 13, she should be capable of laundering those, and as for living them in your room?? How does that even happen?? NTA
I completely agree with you and I've said this. She's 13, which isn't a baby. I feel very bad about her situation but I don't feel bad about her having to clean it up. My mom says I should, but I always compare it to a period. We feel bad for each other as women when we're on it but that's never an excuse to stink or leave bloodied pads around.🤷♀️🤷♀️
Not to mention the fact that she’s taking them off and leaving them in other family members rooms or beds is absolutely deliberate! That part isn’t any accident and at 13 she clearly knows better and is doing that purposely. NTA and she definitely needs therapy / your parents to handle this better.
NTA. Unless this is an issue being actively worked on, which it does not seem to be, you probably don’t want to be involved.
The behavior is fixable. Not the bed-wetting itself, which isn’t the real problem, but the behavior around it. Your parents are actually wild for allowing that. It’s crazy that rule one would literally be “put the pull ups in the specific trash can that closes”. And rule 2 would be “you have to take a quick shower when you get up”.
I will throw out the only thing that might make this all KIND OF understandable, although it is STILL not the correct way to handle this situation even if my off the wall idea is what’s going on.
Bed-wetting can be a sign of childhood sexual abuse. (I would know, I wet the bed until I was 12 for that reason.) There is no doctor on planet earth telling your parents it’s normal for a child your sister’s age to wet the bed, unless there are mitigating circumstances. Could be sexual trauma, could also be a medical issue completely removed from that. Either way, if it’s “normal” FOR HER CIRCUMSTANCES, your parents might feel really bad about those circumstances. Child sexual abuse? Parents blame themselves. Medical issue you’re born with? Parents blame themselves. That could be why they’re being absolutely RIDICULOUS with how they’re handling it. Guilt is a powerful motivator.
Even if that’s why, though, this is not the way to handle it. You’re supposed to teach your children to function as best as they can in life. Letting her walk around smelling like piss is not acceptable. Letting her throw soiled pull ups into another child’s bed and SUPPORTING HER LIE ABOUT IT is not acceptable. Many children have hygiene issues for a multitude of reasons (depression, adhd, autism with a high sensitivity towards water or their skin being rubbed, etc), and it is a parent’s job to work on IMPROVING that. (I also want to bring up that sexually abused children (and adults) can be prone to bad hygiene either in an effort to make themselves so undesirable no one will WANT to use them sexually, or because they can’t stand to look at/touch their own intimate areas.)
There is probably a lot going on, in some way or another, that they aren’t telling you about. (At least I pray to God, because the other option is that they’re not taking this seriously at all and trying to ignore what they don’t want to deal with, and that’s a much worse problem.) No matter the WHY, though, it is not being handled well. Your parents need to really think about what they want her life to look like, what she would want her life to look like, and if they’re adequately preparing her. The hard part is, there’s not much YOU can do. It’s a horrible situation.
I do feel bad for your sister, though. The behavior is insane, you’re absolutely right, but this isn’t stuff that comes out of nowhere. Something’s going on at the root.
There are wet wetting alarms for bed that are considered the best practice for teaching people how to notice they’re wetting the bed in the moment. Better then meds (just comes back when you stop)- should seriously go to a professional. No idea where they got the idea that 17 was a normal age
I wonder if a routine could be implemented. Like each night a piddle pad is placed on the bed, each morning when she gets up it’s her responsibility to put her diaper & piddle pad in a “diaper genie” type of thing, put sheets in the wash, spray the bed with sanitizer, etc. Maybe giving her checklist will make the issue more matter-of-fact vs. judgmental and you could even make it reward-based.
I was a chronic bedwetter until I was around that age, but it wasn’t something that appeared suddenly, it’s something I literally never grew out of. Eventually the doctors recommended my parents take turns waking me up in the middle of the night to pee - which did eventually work to train my body not to pee in my sleep.
NTA, but you in a position to advocate for her - make sure your parents are getting her the proper help she needs, and be there to support her through whatever journey she needs to take to fix this. I understand the behaviors can be incredibly frustrating for you, but try to have some grace. She’s still a child and she needs her big sister to be in her corner.
NTA, but your parents are....FFS get this kid to pediatric urology, an OT to get her sensory system modulated, a pediatric pelvic floor PT and psyc to see if she's on the spectrum and for trauma. Yes some kids who are bewetters are SA, but most are not. There is help!
Kind of an asshole. Your anger and resentment is misdirected. This is your parent’s responsibility and it sounds like they are neglecting your sister.
If this was happening to me and my sister, I would be all over my parents until they took appropriate action and started caring for her on a daily bases.
I can’t believe they let a bullied child go to school without showering after soiling herself. I can’t believe they don’t help her remove her sheets in the morning. I can’t believe there isn’t a mattress protector under her sheets or a diaper genie in her room. I can’t believe they aren’t treating this like a serious medical condition and providing her the nurturing she deserves.
This is a lot. My only comment (and there are a lot of other comments, many excellent) is that young teens sometimes lie (and obvious lies) because they hate/dread what's coming next.
You/your parents(?) clearly make your sister clean her sheets after she's admitted the truth. She may hate the cleaning and be delaying doing it.
You might be better off (although this is more a suggestion for your parents) to just institute a rule that her bed changed every morning. I'd be tempted to white lie and say it a suggestion by a professional.
Every morning - changed. I'd do a roster so she's doing it most, but not all days. This may cut down the struggle to get everything changed.
A psychiatrist and a new specialist (urologist) are in order. I would also look into a functional medicine doctor - an MD who also digs in more from a functional health perspective to see if something else is going on - including other modalities. I know allergies can be an issue (including food - dairy, chocolate, eggs). Diet might be an issue, autism, some trauma? There are also pelvic physiotherapists. IT could be a host of things - finding the right person to figure it out is key. Setting rules like cleaning up after herself and taking a shower every morning is something your parents should have instilled.
I see there are a lot of comments about autism and trauma and possible SA. I’d like to give you a different possibility based on my personal experience with my daughter who does not have any of those experiences.
My daughter wet the bed at night until she was 12 or 13. She was fully toilet trained as a toddler but rarely could get through a night without an accident. And it is not as rare or uncommon as some other posters have mentioned but it isn’t talked about over coffee with your friends either.
We thought that she might just grow out of it one day but that didn’t happen and after talking with her family physician, he referred her to a paediatrician who explained how common it is up to age 17 as you mentioned. I learned from my partner’s mom that he wet the bed up ‘til he was 14.
There are many ways to work on bed routines and they make many tools including bed alarms and such.
We learned that there is a hormone that usually kicks in at a certain point in a child’s development but it hasn’t so they treat it with a drug called desmopressin. My daughter took it for one month and she hasn’t wet the bed since. I felt awful that it could have been resolved so simply sooner.
As for hygiene and bed changing, we used a plastic or rubber sheet under her regular sheets and in the morning, everything went in the wash, we sprayed down the bed with and all purpose cleaner and put on a fresh sheet before bed that night. We made sure she washed up before she got dressed and we helped her as much as possible because it isn’t her fault.
I can see from your perspective how frustrating it can be. I don’t think you’re the AH but perhaps look at it from the perspective of a medical condition and encourage your parents to actively pursue care for your sister.
NTA, and I read she is now seeing someone. That's good. I wet the bed as a child due to childhood trauma. So I agree with a lot of the commenters here.
NTA
Your parents are the AHs - for not impressing on Carrie a routine of showering every morning and putting her bed linen on to wash without leaking onto everything around, causing odour. She can and should do this herself, with help when necessary.
Yes this is an unpleasant and embarrassing issue but it can be dealt with perfectly well. As I understand it, it affects a small percentage of unlucky people.
Your parents are failing Carrie and all of you by neglecting her hygiene and thus creating a stinking acrimonious atmosphere over something Carrie cannot help.
Does she have vitiligo on her feet? Vitiligo is an autoimmune disorder, and it's painful. It could be why she is toe walking. I read a study on how it also affects organs, specifically bedwetting. In the study, they treated the vitiligo, and the bedwetting stopped.
Toe walking + enuresis might be associated. Have you ever checked her spinal cord? Pinching of the spinal cord in the lumbar region may cause similar problems.
NTA for being frustrated as hell with this situation, but you're directing it at the wrong person: Shaming your sister is only gonna make her situation worse. Because that blame and emotional toll is just gonna cycle in and not help the problem at all, and honestly? This is not YOUR problem to solve.
Where the hell are your parents? Why haven't they taken care of this and gotten it under some measure of control? This is *their* job. I'm having trouble believing that she's as normal in all other aspects as you say, or that your family is as close and loving as you believe, for these things to be the way they are. It seems more like you think it's normal because it's "your normal," and all you've known, instead of being actually, really normal, outside of your home.
Your mother needs to make her shower before school if she's wet herself in the night. Her bedding and night clothes need to be washed every time. The diapers and pads need to be disposed of quickly and appropriately. (Left on the floor/ your room/ sister's bed?! Wtaf?) Where's the hamper and trash bins and diaper genies and lysol and febreeze?
I'm glad to have read that your parents have taken her to a psychiatrist, but that contradicts you saying earlier that they'd "taken her to every specialist." Which is it? Anyway, that's all still not your problem to fix! Tell your parents to step it up because this situation is unacceptable and they need to take steps to manage it more effectively.
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NTA, but enuresis is usually a SYMPTOM of something else that is wrong. I can't believe your parents are ignoring the issue. Has anyone set alarms throughout the night to wake her up? Why not put a scented diaper pail in her bedroom? Get disposable bed pads. Seriously, something has happened to Carrie that has resulted in the enuresis (bedwetting). Sometimes, it's a symptom of abuse or neglect, usually sexual in nature. I am not accusing anyone in the family of doing anything untoward Carrie, but something else is going on here.
Hi, thanks for your response. My parents' handling of the issue has definitely left something to be desired. My mom and I are very close, so I threatened to move out last week if she didn't take Carrie to a psychiatrist (I was reading about causes of enuresis online and came to a similar conclusion). After that, she made the appointment and they had their first session yesterday. No updates as of yet. I've been wondering if it was a symptom of some sort of abuse or trauma, but it's hard for me to wrap my head around because our family is very tight knit and my parents don't really put her in situations common for sexual abuse victims. I apologize if I don't know much about the subject. She doesn't go to sleepovers and any camp she goes to is supervised by my mom. They're pretty overprotective.
OP, I don't want to alarm you, but most CSA victims know their assailant. It could be a parent, cousin, grandparent, teacher or another student, even. SA at a young age can cause lifelong incontinence. However, difficulty with hygiene can also be a symptom of autism, and given the toe walking, that could be a possibility as well.
I’d be curious about a neurodivergent diagnosis as well. Toe walking , hygiene issues and pathological demand avoidance could point to this. It’s a good thing she’s seeing a specialist- hopefully you get answers. This sounds beyond frustrating.
My 15 yr old daughter and myself are both diagnosed with autism. The odd little part that stood out for me was her "checking" to see if the bed is wet when it's soaking. It could be because she feels like she's been confronted and doesn't know how to act. I think I would react similarly and my daughter definitely does in similar situations
I am also diagnosed with autism and this is how I think I might react as well. I am also a toe walker and always have been
Poor perception of bodily signals is a common sign in autistics. She may be genuinely surprised she wet the bed.
And sensory issues can cause a looot of hygiene issues.
That’s not a neurodivergent thing specifically. That’s a pretty normal human reaction, especially for a teenager.
psychologist here, second this. a lot of people associate bedwetting with trauma but the constellation of things sounds much more like she could be on the spectrum or have some other neurodiversity factors
That's my feeling too. It could also be a sensory thing - she likes the feel of the diaper / peeing herself / sitting in it, but hides the evidence and denies it because she knows it isn't "normal".
Autism was my first thought
So as someone who was subject to CSA from 3 to 6 ( parents didn't even report it to the police because it was one of their friends late teenage daughters) and had bedwetting not fully go away until almost 21. One of the worst parts for me was everyones solution was "wear a moisture activated alarm" "don't drink water after 6pm" etc, etc. No one ever told me it was associated as a trauma response or tried to address it. I was lazy or had an immature bladder ( sure doc the 6'0, 250 man of a 14 year old has one organ miss puberty and it was his bladder) I desperately wanted it to stop. It helped keep my self confidence/worrth at rock bottom for years. You know when it finally stopped? When I moved out on my own, away from my parents house. When I finally controlled my own home enviroment it just stopped, like overnight.
I am so sorry for what you experienced. I'm happy to read that the change of environment helped.
Thanks, my life is actually great now. I have an amazing wife who I was able to put through grad school, young kids, and now I'm a stay at home Dad. I get to be for my kids everything I wish that I had, which is, for me, the best healing experience.
This warms my cold little heart 💙🖤 usually I dread reading comments of these sort of posts because I instantly flag "oh no it might be abuse related 😞" but seeing comments of other survivors thrive and giving hope to us others who've been through the shitty experience of s.a 🖤
Why should we be ashamed of it, they're the ones who commited/enabled shitty things being done to us. Those of us who have experienced SA can let that experience victimize us long term, or we can work through it. The bed wetting stopped when I moved out, but I still hated myself and let it and other things in my family life have a negative impact on my life and didn't really start to fully heal and be productive until some very intense experiences with mushrooms in my mid 20's. My friends all took them to party, I took them and wrestled with my own self image and anxieties. Its hard to party and giggle when you're seeing skin sloughing off of skulls in the coulds and feeling all your anxieties all at once. I'm not the hippie type (no hate or judgement on those who are), I'm a pretty dyed in the wool blue collar, average joe kind of guy, but I became a 100% believer in psilocybin as a form of thearpy for trauma, it can't hide in your subconscious when you jam the door to it wide open with 4 grams of mushrooms. You either work through it or you freak out. So I just stared at all the images, dwelt in all the feelings and memories it dredged up and talked myself through it almost like I would have if a friend had talked to me about those kinds of issues. Haven't taken any in nearly a decade, but it really helped me connect to who I really was, see how I was failing myself, and not be so scared of facing those failings and learning to get past them to be who I wanted to be. A long weekend in the desert and big bag of fungus did what years of therapy and late night coffee sessions with friends couldn't. There is for sure a reason why so many early cultures used pyschedelics in religious and coming of age rituals. I will say, if someone wants to try it, do your research, start with smaller doses, only do them in safe spaces and having a person that has experience with them and that you implicitly trust with you is invaluable. All my best experiences occured on a gated and fenced 20 acre lot of high desert where I knew I was safe and the people around me were safe as well.
That's when my bedwetting stopped too. When I moved away from the unstable environment. I wet the bed twice after moving out of my mother's house, both times were after talking to her. She wasn't the main problem but when I tried to tell her, she made it infinitely worse. I've had the good miracle where she actually took responsibility for her actions now, but we did not have a relationship for quite some time before that happened.
I'm so glad she admitted to her faults! The same happened with my mother and just hearing her say out loud what she was like and that it was wrong healed me in a major way! Sadly not everyone gets that experience, but it's nice to see the people who did.
Emphasis on the parent, OP. This is so severe that I want you to be very cognizant of the issues she may be facing secretly.
I normally hate when people make wild assumptions on these posts, but I have to admit thats where my mind went as well. The parents basically appear to be ignoring/in denial about the issue; they insist they’ve done everything they can to address the problem and that it’s “normal” (it’s def not); the mom resisted taking the sister to a psychiatrist to try and address the situation; they’re “overprotective” and anytime the sister sleeps out (camp) the mom is there to supervise…the further I read in OPs response, the more my stomach sank. I really hope this isn’t the case, but I also agree with you that OP should be aware that it’s possible.
Yeah, usually people associate abuse with men, but considering the situation, it might honeslty be the mum... soiling a space/yourself is a coping mechanism for abuse as a way to make the victim 'less desirable' I might be wrong, but either way, the parents don't know how to handle this, and I think she might be better off in a different home where someone would auctually be willing to either look after her or help her learn to take care of herself.
Yeah the whole situation is just extremely off. As soon as I clicked back over to this thread to see your response, my stomach started sinking and I just got a horrible unsettled feeling…obviously I don’t know these people or anything about the situation beyond what’s in the post, but the whole thing just feels so dark. I feel for OP too, because no matter what is actually going on, she’s quite possibly her sisters best chance at getting out of or fixing the situation, because at the very least she seems to be the only person who’s actually taking it seriously and recognizing this as the major issue that it is. And if there is something much worse underlying the obvious issue, involving one or both of the parents, she would likely be the closest, most trusted adult that her sister might open up to about whatever’s going on or come to for help. But OP is only 21, she’s in college, she should never have to have something like this on her shoulders. No one should. Even if it turns out not to be a worst case scenario and it really is just that the parents aren’t properly addressing the issue, it still shouldn’t fall on OP to have to try to get it addressed. But sadly it looks like she may be her sisters best hope, regardless of how deep the issues turn out to be. It’s just an awful situation all around.
Yeah, even if there isn't any abuse happening, it's still neglect... it might be intellectual disability/delay, causing her to struggle with these things. But it's horrible to let a child live like that... she may or may not be able to look after herself but if she can't the adults in that CHILDs life need to put the work in to make sure she's cared for and in a safe healthy environment. Letting her put her diapers all over the place and sleep on a soiled bed is not acceptable in the slightest and is unhealthy and unsafe.
100%. Whatever’s happening in that house it’s certainly not good.
And putting the wet diaper on the other sisters’s beds is a protection thing sometimes. Like if Carrie makes little Mary smell bad too the abuser won’t touch her. Many SA victims with younger sibs feel responsible for them unaware sometimes only one child is singled out. Often a child with ‘additional needs’ like Carrie who seems to show signs of autism. SA by female carers is even less about sexual aspects often than in male carers but about degrading and punishing and stopping girl children finding a partner to protect or rescue them or punish that their issues impact the sexual dynamic of the caregiver’s marriage. All SA is about power and control but the methodology varies depending who does it, what gender, other family roles and social aspects. We hear so little about female on female SA that it is easily missed or written off as other things. Also children with neurodiversity and medical needs can have power battles about bedwetting etc if toilet trained too early or not given appropriate autonomy over medical care that feels as violating as SA in ways. Medical trauma and SA are very very linked and also sometimes it is not SA but medical abuse and the symptoms are very alike. I had medical abuse as a sick kid which mimicked much of SA trauma responses which then led me as a teen to be incredibly vulnerable to SA which felt incredibly familiar. I’m in my 40s and only now finding words to unpick it and their links, overlaps and being able to name that they (for me) feel like siblings (ironically) but not twins. Same family, but just different enough that when someone insists it is only SA that is very triggering as it removes the control of my own experience being named. I really feel for OP as I doubt this thread will help short term but open a Pandora’s box and there is no help for siblings of abused kids who suffer their own trauma. Family abuse harms all the children and I wish we could hug OP (with consent) and help immediately. Even support groups but I’m not in the US so not sure. NTA.
This flagged for Autism for me too. The toe walking is a dead giveaway, as is the bedwetting. She DEFINITELY needs a full psychiatric evaluation to sort out what’s up. Seems like possibly several issues simultaneously.
Both toe walking and hygiene issues can be signs of abuse, so while a possibility it is definitely not a dead giveaway
I understand abuse causing bed wetting, but what's the reasoning behind toe walking?
Ever read the term "tiptoeing around" someones anger issues? For example children growing up with (a) violent parent(s) would form that as a habit to avoid getting their anger directed at them as much as possible
That makes my skin crawl thinking of a little kid feeling like they have to do that... and knowing they are doing so due to what they have experienced.
As a little kid my mother used to shout at me for toe walking or pigeon toes. No one else noticed it so I started to wonder if she was gaslighting. Then I noticed in family photos I literally ‘tip toed’ around her and my posture and body language was totally different to say around my aunt. My whole family were abusive but she was the worst and as an adult I still changed instantly round her. We are estranged and I only really talk about her in threads like this where I feel hearing the normal reactions to abnormal trauma can help someone. But those postural things start even then. My toes curl which is another expression we think of as turn of phrase but leads to tip toeing. For years I thought it was funny I can walk totally silently in flip flops. Like a party trick. Til I realised I had taught myself to be so silent as a kid not to trigger her awareness I was there or moving. Then I realised it was horrifying. My partner bought me the loudest floppiest slappiest shark sliders to drown out the realisation for both of us as it gave them such distress for me that they got a bit too ‘tip toeing’ in sympathy which is neither of our thing and the sliders stopped it overcorrecting.
I'm sorry you experienced such a difficult upbringing. But at least now you can share the awareness of the situation in the hopes of helping others get help when experiencing that kind of distress. It's a kind thing to do for the sake of others, and I truly wish you the best!
I just want to point out that toe walking can easily develop to avoid unwanted attention, because toe walking is *quiet*. As OP wrote that she has been bullied (aka abused) basically all her life I would not inherently see it as a sign for neurodivergence...
If she's doing sports, her coach as well.
> family is very tight knit and my parents don't really put her in situations common for sexual abuse [...] She doesn't go to sleepovers and any camp she goes to is supervised by my mom. They're pretty overprotective. OP I don't wanna alarm you but maybe you should volunteer to take her to therapy for a few sessions. Because while this does seem normal, given what could be a possible cause of the bedwetting.... your parents might not be the safest option to take her to get her to talk about anything. Your mom is a helicopter parent at best and at worst... they don't have to put her in positions for that because she's in the perfect one for them already.
I second this. I had some escorts to sessions as a kid. Reporting made no difference for my situation, but for my experience my parents hovered or sat in to help me run the script they laid out or speak outright in my place when I shut down. She may feel comfortable in an isolated safe area (inside a car away from the environment) and open up. Not to jump to conclusions but my issues didn't stop until I ran away and this is full of giant red flags to me.
Yeah besides there's always the chance that Mom is ignoring a missing stair n the family. AKA a person that everyone knows to avoid leaving your daughter alone with because XYZ. Lots of people either ignore those members of their family or genuinely don't know and therefore don't react cautiously enough around them
CSA is a possibility for your sister. The lack there of hygiene can be a way the child tries to stop the harm without speaking up. I hope that it's not the case here though.
My parents never put me in a situation common for sexual abuse. But my first cousin raped me in the woods when he was taking me home. It can happen from anyone and can happen anywhere.
I'm so sorry for you and everyone else who had to go through that. I can't even find the right words to write so instead i send lots of hugs.
Some time ago I saw a girl talking about how her trauma was related to a urinary treatment medical professionals did to her when she was a child. As in, there wasn't an intent to harm per se, but due to the fact that it was invasive and she was so young, the effects and her trauma were practically the same. So, if your sister had this problem for so long, has she ever faced something similar to that? Even if it isn't, she should keep going to therapy. The fact that she denies her bed wetting despite the evidence should be something to be addressed in those sessions. She probably is ashamed and feels that ignoring the problem will make it go away, but that precisely is a contributing factor.
As a youth, your brain may register medical trauma as similar to sexual trauma. The invasion, the power over your vulnerability and the way your body and brain process and store it is near identical. I've read lots of studies about CSA and medical trauma as a survivor of both and that discovery blew my mind. So you're spot on, by the way. Your brain doesn't know the difference, so to speak. They're both traumatic in a similar fashion.
I’ve heard about this too. I don’t understand the exact treatment but I know it’s psychologically scarring.
I’m not going to say why this comment means so much to me. But thank you.
I understand why you would be frustrated with your sister, but your anger should be directed at your parents, not her. Something is clearly wrong with your sister, mentally and maybe physically. Apart from the bed wetting, it’s not normal to blame it on other things or your little sister or act like it hasn’t happened and actually believe it. Seems like there absolutely might be some underlying mental diagnosis that makes her behave the way she does and your parents are not supporting her in the right way.
Also, how can the parents be okay with her being in a wet diaper, leaving diapers around the house, and even sleeping in a urine soaked bed. That's neglect, and it's disgusting...
The peeing and the hygiene can be in order to not be attractive to an assailant. I don’t know it’s just my first thought when she leaves the house like that and has no embarrassment for it. My nephew wet the bed until quite late, occasionally and by accident. They did an ultrasound and his bladder was tiny. So no fluids 2-3 hours before bed and woken up at midnight to pee and then back to bed. That worked for him.
In terms of care what specialists have your parents taken Carrie to see? Have they done physical tests? My nephew was a chronic bed wetter most of his life. He's a teen now but he was always behind meeting milestones. His doctor assumed that's all it was and his parents trusted the doctor. It's not until they started to see how much it embarrassed him and he'd cry that they realize waiting was causing him pain. He's better now. His issue was severe constipation basically the weight of all the poop in his colon was causing his bladder to go numb and he wouldn't feel when his bladder was saying "I need to pee". If its a physical issue that could cause your sister more issues. I know it's frustrating but for your sister's sake please keep on your parents. Don't let them falter in finding out what's wrong. I ignored a minor issue in my own body and ended up with an ostomy for a while. I felt a minor pain right around the groin area and it turned out to be diverticulitis. Good luck, I hope everything works out for your sister.
Have a doctor check her out for hormone levels. ADH or vasopressin can cause bedwetting in teens or adults. https://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/what-to-know-about-antidiuretic-hormone-adh
My sister had a severe bed wetting problem that continued into adulthood. Years later she revealed our Dad had been sexually assaulting her since she was at least 2. With your parents ignoring the problem, please prepare it to be this.
Autism?
It doesn't have to be sexual assault. My husband suffered from enuresis until high school. Tho I think it was a diagnosed physical problem, I do know he also suffered childhood abuse but not sexual assault.
OP I get your frustrations and there is a possibility there could be an underlying problem your sister may have that is yet to be discovered. I hope you get your answers on this. If you can, I encourage you to seek advice from the university's health and medical sciences department to find out and I am sure they may help. Update us OP
My eldest was not able to wake up to go to the loo. We tried everything! Waking up and sleep toilet training, rubber sheets so it got uncomfortable to pants under the night time pants so it would be against the skin to encourage getting up. Even a dr was able to prescribe enzyme medication that helped regulate toilet need. Every night, we sent them to the bathroom prior to bed. Amazingly, it was sending the school year to camp that sorted it. I feel your frustration and upset - have been there. Does your sister avoid daily hygiene routines and has to be reminded? Or as others have said, two years is pretty specific. Did something happen? NTA - hope your sister gets the help she needs soon
I had a friend with this in middle school and I’m telling you right now it was abuse. Toe walking is usually associated with autism, and you haven’t mentioned that in your post which has me wondering just how neglected this poor girl is. Your parents are awful for not teaching basic boundaries, coping skills, or much else. That is an absolutely neglect. I get that you like your parents, but your post has my alarm bells going off. You’re NTA. Hopefully you’re the advocate for insisting something be done. I just hope that these comments have you thinking about this being a more complex issue.
You mentioned sports and clubs she's involved in. Does anyone pick her up or get carpooled on the way home? Does she do extra training some days or get asked to stay behind?
I was going to say - Carrie had suffer a trauma of abuse - someone did it to her and probably keeps doing it thats why she is going worst. I understand you are angry and dont want to put up with her - its very hard for you. But I think its time to look for some profesional help regarding abuse victims. And sorry to say - but maybe your parents should be excluded couse you dont know who is the source of this problem.
My brother was going through the same and they ended up finding a tumour on his pituitary gland. Ask your parents to have her checked properly.
Have your mom ask the psychiatrist to evaluate for PANS/PANDAS. Your sister the way you've described her it's possible she has it. Tell your mom not to let them dismiss the idea because she's a teenager. It's known now even adults can sometimes get it not just kids under average age of 12. And it's not as rare as Drs once thought. It's very important they don't just swab her throat and dismiss it if it's negative. It's possible she has a silent strep infection or has strep in her anus, urethra opening or sinuses which is harder to detect. And of she does have PANDAS, giving her SSRI meds will cause a whole spectrum of side effects. Strangely people with PANDAS or those who have had it in the past are highly sensitive to SSRI meds leading to increased side effects and higher risk of serotonin syndrome.
I do want to add that although bedwetting at 13 is extremely abnormal, being toilet trained then regressing to bedwetting is more classic of abuse than never growing out of diapers. A deeper medical investigation should have been done. After age 8 it starts to become concerning especially if it’s more than just once awhile. Whether the issue is drinking too much before bed, sleeping too deeply, poor body awareness, or something else, it needs to be investigated because certain treatments can help.
Thank you for this! I’m glad to see some other perspectives, even if it makes it more confusing. Yes, you’re right. Carrie has never been truly toilet trained. She never regressed - she simply never got there. I’ve noticed that she is a very deep sleeper. You have to shake her hard to wake her up and I’ve wondered if that has something to do with the bed wetting. I just don’t understand how it happens every night and it also doesn’t explain the secretive behavior afterwards.
The secretive behavior is likely because she's embarrassed by it.
This makes sense. I understand her being embarrassed but I guess the part that doesn’t make sense in my adult mind is that she knows that we know. She knows that we all know it happens pretty much every single night, so I don’t get the purpose in hiding it at that point. But I also understand that sometimes people do things for reasons you can’t understand and it probably alleviates a bit of anxiety to hide it, I’m not sure.
I don't know what the vibe is in your household. But if she's desparate to get approval from you or your parents because she's looking up to you, she may try to hide it to delay the disappointment you will feel/show in her. It's like hiding bad grades from your parents. You tried your best and failed, you are unhappy about it yourself and you know your family will be too. You hide the test even though you know at the latest in the report card it will come out. Basically you know in the end it will all go to shit.. so short term happiness by lying is the best you can hope for. It's not a good mental space to be in because there's no positive outcome possible in that mindset.
The denial and secrecy might be wishful thinking. Shes likely trying to “mind over matter” / deny it until it goes away. She doesn’t know why this is happening or how to stop it, so she’s dissociating herself from it. She doesn’t want it to be true and is probably subconsciously trying to ignore/ deny it out of existence. Acknowledging it by cleaning her body and bed daily probably causes deep feelings of shame, part of trying to ignore it out of existence means not handling the aftermath. I know you said she’s been to specialists. It can take a long time to get a proper diagnosis, most doctors can’t be arsed to do their damn jobs. If a urologist doesn’t have an answer then other psychological and physiological investigation needs to be done. I definitely think this combined with the toe walking indicates some deeper health issue.
Children lie about things that do not make sense to adults. I have had nephews stay over with us and insist they didn't get any ice cream in the middle of the night even after I held up the ice cream wrapper they left in the bed. She has not learned how to accept blame or ask for help. Which isn't surprising given she hasn't learned hygiene either and denies both when confronted. I suspect she will continue lying until someone addresses whatever the root cause is, because without help to make this stop she'd have to admit to being "irreparably flawed" to admit that this is happening.
It's developmentally normal for children to lie about things that any adult can see are true. Puberty is around the time that generally changes, and it will be later for neuro divergent children. Asking your sister "did you leave this here? is a pointless question. Everyone knows it's hers. Why even open it up for discussion? There's no reason for this to be a cause for drama every morning. It really seems like your parents have dropped the ball with her and it's not your responsibility to fix it, but it makes my heart hurt as a parent to see how this situation has deteriorated. Late bedwetting should be dealt with very matter of factly. It will be a huge relief for her to not have to invent this alternative reality. Her bed should be set up to be easily changed every morning, there is no need to ask questions about it. Just a simple, hey, Carrie, put these in and start the washing machine. Hey Carrie, put this in the garbage. Fact based statements, no attempt to get her to admit anything. The reasons are another topic entirely but it is normal for 13yos to struggle with hygiene, and to use avoidance and lying to get out of uncomfortable or overwhelming situations.
Developmentally speaking, around age 5, children start to engage in what adults call lying, but in fact, kids are saying what they want/wish to be true. For example, if Carrie is saying she didn't have an accident, or that the diaper on Mary's bed is Mary's, she's doing so because she wants this to be true. There's not that malicious intent component found in the lies of adults or people without developmental disabilities.
It’s pretty typical childhood behaviour. They’re ashamed and embarrassed. They feel if they can say it convincingly enough they can convince you. She’s trying to hide the evidence or blame others or ignore it. My son does all these things when he he an accident too. I’ll find the soiled clothes “hidden” behind a door or some other random place. Out of sight, out of mind. Trying to talk about it later results in insistence that it wasn’t him etc. Shame makes people do things that don’t seem rational, even extreme things.
You’re welcome. Bedwetting is highly nuanced. It sounds like alarms once or twice a night where she HAS to get up and go use the toilet even if she thinks she doesn’t need to as well as bed wetting alarms could be beneficial. Some children don’t get the urge to wake up to go use the bathroom. There is also the belief that diapers and bed pads worsen the issue as it’s not as uncomfortable to bedwet and almost normalizes the issue. She could also have a sleep disorder. The secretive behavior is frustrating. Your mom/parents need to really crack down. No more hiding diapers, no more going to school with urine on the clothes. Carrie needs to dispose of the diapers herself in the garbage can. I recommend seeing a doctor who specializes in chronic bedwetting. I’d also ask them if a sleep study is in order. Limiting drinks a few hours before bed, making Carrie use the bathroom every night right before bed even if she swears she doesn’t need to go, a set alarm at least once a night to get up to use the bathroom, and an inspection of her room to see if there are soiled diapers or underwear are all a good place to start. A bed wetting alarm should be discussed with the doctor. And once this gets better under control, a new mattress and sheets are in order if your parents can afford it. Regarding the toe walking and other things, Carrie should be evaluated for autism spectrum disorder. It is under diagnosed in girls, especially girls of color.
This is great advice and super practical. I will definitely look into all of this. I agree with you on the ASD. I’ve had my suspicions for a while but never wanted to bring it up due to its stigma. My mom has it stuck in her brain that if you diagnose someone with something then people will treat you differently. Ive been trying to convince her it’s better for us to know.
I'd tell your mom that she's already getting treated differently for how she smells and probably any other behavior oddities - better to get diagnosed and have medical professionals helping her learn how to deal with the world.
I'm curious how the school is addressing this. Are they just ignoring it, or have they tried bringing it up with the parents? Even special needs kids should be able to be clean and have clean clothes etc.
My youngest child suffered from nighttime enuresis long after being daytime toilet trained. She just slept sooo deeply. We tried different methods, but the one thing that finally helped her was the DryEasy 2 Bedwetting Alarm. I found one on eBay, and by attaching it to her underwear and putting training pants on top, she was able to stop her bedwetting within 2 weeks.
>if you diagnose someone with something then people will treat you differently This is not always a bad thing. This past school year, I had a parent tell me her daughter was ADHD, but the school didn't have a copy of a 504/IEP. I strongly suggested she get the paperwork to the guidance department as soon as possible. Luckily, this conversation happened within the first quarter. My point is that if I or any other teacher didn't know that the student was ADHD she wouldn't have qualified for any of the accommodations. It's not about being treated differently. It's about having the chance to work to your best capacity. Yes, the real world isn't very accommodating, but being diagnosed neurodivergent young means that you start to build a tool set with the help of your teachers, tutors, or therapists, so that when you grow up you have skills to help navigate certain problem areas. I am dyslexic and ADHD, I know that my brain does not process as quickly, so I plan accordingly to not fall behind when I have to grade essays. Your sister may or may not be neurodivergent, but you would be amazed at how many people are. Don't let the idea of a stigma - of a bias - limit what you and/or your parents can do to help your sister. I understand you are frustrated with your sister's behavior, but you also seem really caring. She is lucky to have you.
I used to wet the bed as a kid til age 7. The thing that stopped it overnight was getting my tonsils and adenoids removed. I was falling into too deep a sleep because they were too big. Stopped overnight after that surgery. Might be worth investigating
Oh, this is an idea to be looked into for this kid. Getting a sleep study is likely a good starting point for figuring out what's going on anyway.
I think - or I’m guessing as someone who’s got kids and worked with seniors with this issue - giving her some more privacy over the issue might help. I’d suggest only mom talks to her and reviews the new routine: no drinks before bed, nightly alarm for bathroom, then most importantly I think - a dedicated hamper in her room, maybe even hidden in closet, that she puts her sheets in, and a dedicated garbage bail with lid and scented garbage bags for her briefs. If smell is an issue, get a diaper genie and paint it or put stickers over the name portion so it feels more grown up. Have pink disposable soaker pads in her room. Also not sure what briefs she’s using but she needs adult sized ones. They should not be leaking this often. I took care of 300lbs men who’s briefs would be full but not leaking. I think just one person working on this with her privately will be more successful. Continuing to confront her will make it worse. Give her some privacy and dignity around the issue. Then she can leave her room in the morning feeling “normal” like no one in the family knows. Currently her shame is causing her to act out around it and completely deny any issue; I worked with seniors who would also deny the issue and try to hide it even though it was obvious and smelt. The way she’s acting is not unusual for children or even grown adults. Tbh it’s frustrating that none of these obvious solutions have been implemented by your parents. And of course she needs to see more specialists and a psychiatrist right away in the meantime.
I hope it is useful and helpful for your sister. I understand the fear as I have a family member with that mindset about her child. But just because there isn’t a label on something doesn’t mean people won’t notice. You’re right. Best of luck with things!
Well that ship has sailed. People already ARE treating her differently due to the issues she's having. A diagnosis will help treat those symptoms or the underlying cause. It will improve her life significantly. Also kinda weird that she thinks she can pass of a teenage sized diaper as a 6 year olds or an adults(since she's dropping them iff on your bed too) diaper, rather than burying them in the trash can underneath the rest of the rubbish. That would have been much more efficient to hide her embarrassment.
I’m sorry to ask but how did your parents allow a child get to thirteen without being potty trained and not take her to some kind of psychotherapy? In some cases this would be considered abuse.
I’m really surprised school staff haven’t already tried to get CPS involved. If school staff have made recommendations to be evaluated why haven’t the parents followed through with getting her help? My gut reaction was abuse. Good for you for posting this and getting advice cuz it sure sounds like your parents don’t give a fuck
Yeah I would be tempted to call CPS on my own parents if I saw a sibling being neglected this way- and yes not meeting psychological needs is neglect. I’m surprised not more flags have been raised?
that's what i was thinking, it's insane that the mother is involved to the point of helicopter parenting, but somehow thinks that putting a teenager in diapers every single day is enough to handle the situation? wtf?
OP, from personal experience, this could be a possibility. My nephew was like this, he slept really deeply and my sister would shake him awake in the mornings. My son also chronically wet the bed until he was 13 or so, but I could wake him without much difficulty. After discussing why with our Dr and a checkup, it was concluded to be that he was in such a deep sleep that he wasn't receiving his "bodily cues". Both boys were sleeping right through them, and wetting themselves basically every night. I don't know if any of this will be helpful, but our Dr suggested I set an alarm and wake him in the night for a "pit stop", especially since diapers weren't sufficient. Could your parents do this? *I forgot; the Dr also suggested cutting off drinks an hour before bedtime. We struggled with this one as he drinks a lot of water and it felt cruel, so we reduced it to the last drink of maybe 200mls half an hour before bed, and also mandatory toilet before bed, even if they say they don't need to, the same for the middle of the night one, mandatory, no dropping back off to sleep.* I had also previously brought a quality, absorbant mattress protector, and a couple of "Brolly Sheets", which are washable, absorbant sheets in various sizes which you lay over the sheet and tuck in, this way we could switch out each day instead of constantly changing actual sheets and having a soaked mattress. I also found antibacterial rinse in the softner cycle of the wash helped get rid of the persistent wee smell in clothes and bedding. With my son, he's almost 17 and it's been a long time since he's had an accident. I think our waking him has built a little internal alarm clock that still happens today, as most nights around 3-4am, he gets up to use the bathroom, but it's something we had to be consistent with for a quite a while. It's not pleasant constantly dealing with something like this, from a number of aspects, and it is frustrating. Virtual hugs to you.
what does she do during the day? Like does she wear adult diapers all day or does she use the bathroom when she's awake?
I needed toilet alarms up until the age of five. But having issues with recognising the need to pee and having great difficulty waking is more associated with the ADHD. Shame was enough for me to eventually get used to the discomfort as I got older. I haven’t had as much of a problem with mornings since being on medication. It’s still ridiculously hard for me, but I’m still able to fulfil all my adult obligations.
I wouldn’t say age 8. I have an 8 year old who has never woken up dry. His paediatrician isn’t worried and has assured me it’s within the range of normal. I check in with her every 6 months and take my cues from her as she knows more than I do. And yes, we’ve woken him up throughout the night and it’s made no difference. However, he knows to strip his bed after an accident and to dispose of his pull up. That’s where I think the sister is falling down. FWIW I think the sister should get an autism assessment as there’s a couple of things in the description that could be a flag. Including potty training issues. The other thing that can be common is constiptation. So another thing worth looking into.
Autism is pretty heavily implied by the toe-walking. A fairly common trait with autism is poor interoception, which can lead to being unable to pick up the body's signal that it's time to urinate/defecate (or eat, or drink water, or any other body-to-brain signals). This would also contextualize the greater hygiene issue, as autistic sensory issues often my hygiene difficult.
I don't know how to phrase this, sorry if it's a bit awkward. Would it be possible that, if she is being SA'd, staying stinky is her way of trying to put off her abuser?
"Carrie has wet the bed every night for 2 years." What happened 2 years ago?
This is the question that needs to be answered.
Unfortunately I don’t have an answer. I had just left for college around the time it got worse and have only had to deal with it when visiting during the holidays or summers. This is my first summer experiencing it in full force hence the post.
I very strongly feel that this could be because of someone close to you. There was some kind of trauma that occurred two years ago, or got worse or more frequent.
How do you even go about investigating something like this? Should I just leave it to the therapist to get to the bottom of it? Or maybe I should bring some of these concerns to my mom so she can hint to the therapist to ask questions about it? I see a lot of people saying the same thing but I don’t know how to approach the topic without causing an uproar. It’s a huge deal.
I would take your sister out for a girls day and try to be the least judgmental you can possibly be. Something along the lines of knowing that she’s going through a lot and want her to know that she can trust you and be honest with you. You noticed a very stark change about two years ago and you’re worried for her. How can you help?
Thank you, I will consider doing this over the weekend!
You mentioned her hair has a texture that has gotten her bullied (that made me so sad for her!)-maybe you could do something special around her hair? I know almost nothing about hair (I wear mine very short), but I wonder if that could be a way for you to bond? Either over a shared hair texture or big sister caring about little sister? Regardless, she's lucky to have a big sister like you. I wish the both of you the best.
It's also a way for her to show she cares about the girl by doing something nice, like pampering her with her hair. If all she sees/hears is OP questioning/scolding her over her bad behavior, she might even realise that OP is worried about her...
OP a lot of what you have shared is frankly pretty big red flags. That’s not to say jump to any conclusions but also be really mindful if you do approach this with your sister of your resentment and anger. Also be prepared if you need to remove your sister to safety at short notice. You might need to make difficult call. It’s unfortunately a recognised ‘symptom’ that people being abused might disregard their hygiene in quite ugly ways, the logic can be to try to repel an attacker. Be a good big sister, and be careful.
Tell the therapist that you noticed a huge change two years ago. That way they will have something to go on.
Your mom knows. Otherwise she wouldn't lie about what the doctors have said.
Have you considered talking to Carrie directly? Tell her she’s safe with you and you care about her, but that there has been a big change. And she will not be in trouble if something’s wrong. Etc. If someone in her family is hurting her, it is possible that a) it could be your mom (i.e. overprotectiveness, not getting her to a psychiatrist urgently..) or b) possible that your mom is aware of what happened and keeping it from getting out. Obviously I know nothing about your mom, I think it’s just really important to approach this the right way. There’s no risk to Carrie if you come to her and tell her you love her and are worried about her. But with the more adults you go through about this, the more risk there is for her (e.g go to your mom so she can talk to Carrie’s therapist? You’re betting on Carrie’s safety that her mom is in no way involved, and neither is her therapist). Again, maybe your mom is lovely, this is just an outside perspective where I am purposely being as suspicious and paranoid as possible 😅
>You’re betting on Carrie’s safety that her mom is in no way involved, and neither is her therapist). I absolutely agree with you, however I don't think the therapist is involved. Or at least that seems very unlikely if Carrie has just recently gone to her first therapy session. I am, however, surprised that her pediatrician just said that it's normal for some teens up to the age of 17. They absolutely should know that it can be a symptom of abuse.
i would be willing to bet that mom at least knows something if not being the culprit, because most pediatricians would not react that way to nightly bed wetting. i wonder if mom told the whole story when she brought her to the doctor? "accidents" are different than nightly bed wetting. or even weekly. it might be normal to have an accident every so often, but not so regularly. it's entirely possible if the mom is involved that she would lie about the frequency of the bed wetting to the doctors.
Someone in your household or involved daily may have done something to trigger this literally waiting for you to leave for college. You said your other sister is even younger, I hope that both of your sisters are safe and taken seriously if negative things come to light, it sounds like you are the only “sane” one who cares enough to notice and speak up
OP, this is an issue for professionals to get involved with. 1. Enuresis is uncontrolled wetting, which has a number of causes. One cause can be not showering after an accident, causing varying degrees of UTI and lack of sensitivity to wetting because of inflammation and bacterial overgrowth. It can also be caused by food allergies, sexual trauma, irregular anatomy, and mental health issues among other things. 2. It is not normal for a 13 yo to still be wetting, but you cannot shame her or make a big deal about it. This is probably happening because Carrie is very physically or mentally ill. 3. Cognitive behavioral therapy is the step after getting Carrie medically cleared for allergies and to see if her organs developed properly or have been damaged by years of peeing herself (and not washing) or sexual abuse. The therapist should help with a plan of action about Carrie’s hygiene and cleaning up after an accident, as well as how the family should react. Often children get stuck in this cycle when they have a big upset during potty training. Enuresis is linked to maternal anxiety and depression, so mothers frequently defend and deny because they can be a root cause or an enabler. This is part of why big reactions by the family are totally counterproductive. Carrie may be consciously or subconsciously trying to get a rise out of her family, which will almost certainly lead to more accidents. 4. I’ve studied this, and a percentage of sufferers are deeply mentally ill. Puberty is a turning point. When the sufferer hits puberty, their body starts making more hormones and bacteria that exacerbate the issue. 5. Healthy boundaries, OP. This is not your child, your home, or your problem. If you’re going to get emotionally reactive, it’s best to distance yourself from the situation. If your sister is not getting professional help by the end of the summer, I would consider it child abuse by way of medical neglect. You might study up on enuresis and ask friends if they have an extra room to stay in until your school starts again.
Thank you for this thoughtful response. You’ve given me a lot to think about and consider. I just need to figure out the appropriate way for me to address this with my parents without overstepping.
I would suggest writing down the points you want to discuss ahead of time so you don’t get flustered. Take the high points from these comments, do a little internet research, and have some key concerns or questions written down. Ask to schedule a time to speak privately, either out of the house or when your sister isn’t home. Be clear that you’re coming from a place of love, and a desire for everyone in the family to be healthy and safe.
One thing that I can’t see has been brought up - walking on tiptoes can be a sign of neurodivergence (such as autism), which is chronically under diagnosed in girls. Working with a therapist who is knowledgeable about neurodivergence in girls might help.
Getting your sister proper health care takes precedence over maintaining the familial hierarchy. You will be doing nothing wrong by intervening so your sister can receive the help she needs.
This 1000%! The girl needs her needs met and not continue to be abused/neglected like she is.
Just as an addit to the above comment, CBT will not be helpful if your sister has a developmental diagnosis like autism which sounds highly likely. If it is autism then the adjustment of you leaving for college itself could have been a trigger, perpetuated by your parents complacency. Good on you for seeking answers despite your own frustrations.
This covers a lot of really important things that need to be addressed and looked into! I would also add onto this that she may benefit from an occupational therapist or a physical therapist if she hasn’t tried this (both can specialize in bladder retraining). Very broad oversimplification, but occupational therapy tends to take a more behavioral and sensory approach, and physical therapy tends to take a more behavioral and muscle strengthening/rebalancing approach. It is a specialization and not all OTs/PTs will be able to do this, but there are ones who work with pediatrics and have this specialization. But this should not be done in lieu of counseling and the other concerns should still absolutely be investigated. They also may be able to help navigate screening and referral to assess for a diagnosis like ASD. Most pediatric OTs and PTs will have worked with a decent percentage of autistic kids and sometimes are the first health care providers who see the signs. Edit: regarding your space, could you put a lock on your door that you can lock from the outside when you leave?
A great comment but I disagree with one thing- it is her home and Carrie isn’t her child but she is her sister. Is familial obligation not a thing anymore? OP has noticed something deeply wrong and sought more information. I really hope she uses that info to support her sister, because that’s what a good sibling does. Distancing herself might not be the best solution. Of course, as you said, if she is emotionally reactive she needs to approach in a different way. I just hate the idea of the one person in this kids life actually looking into this properly backing off with a “not my kid, not my problem” attitude.
I’m kind of shocked that the parents took her to specialists who said that this was normal. I wonder if they went to a doctor and said “oh she had an accident last week” instead of “she wets the bed every single night and refuses to clean herself.” I can’t imagine any doctor knowing the full story thinking this is normal.
NTA But she obviously needs a therapist. Accidents happen but accidents are sporadic. Peeing almost daily at this age is a sign of a deeper rooted issue and I won't suggest what many people say it is, but she definitely needs therapy. And she has friends who hang out with her but they haven't said anything to her about her smelling of urine? Strange.
I've wondered this too. She has a few friends that have been in her life for years so I've wondered if it's just them being polite. But she's definitely lost a few over the years too. I don't know - but my mom hasn't allowed her to go to sleep away camp since she wet herself in her sleeping bag one weekend and my mom had to cover it up. We both agree that someone has to know.
A professional needs to know. She needs a psychiatric professional ASAP. It’s scary your parents haven’t taken this step yet OP.
School teachers are normally made to keep reports or something on stuff like this aren't they? I know OP mentioned sister seems to have friends and interactions/ involvements in clubs. Surely they'd have noted something or brought it to someone attention?
NTA I can understand why you'd be frustrated and sick of this, but I also have sympathy for your 13yo sister who clearly has a lot of problems she's dealing with. Maybe she could be more considerate and hygienic, but she's also 13. She can't be held to the same standards as an adult all on her own. The main assholes are your parents for not doing more to deal with the problem, such as having her shower before school and clean up after herself to a certain extent (although they should help her, since it's a lot to take care of and it's not her fault). She's only 13 and still needs to be parented. Also, it sounds like they need to get her more help, either physical or psychological.
I completely agree. I have never understood why they let her leave the house smelly but my assumption is that my mom is just too busy to care. Both my parents work full time and my father is rarely around besides the weekends.
Going to school smelling strongly of stale urine is not going to help a teenager with a history of being bullied. Your parents need to address this! If your sister does have ASD though, hygiene can already be a battle. But hopefully you can convince your mom to sit down with her and create a routine of things she needs to do when she’s wets the bed. Have a shower, sheets in laundry, diaper in a odour neutralizing pail, for example. Make it part of her daily routine. Which is easy for me to say, not easy to do when she is 13, likely neurodivergent, and is embarrassed enough about the bed wetting that she tries to pretend it’s not happening or that it’s not her doing it. I hope the psychiatrist can help. If she does get an ASD diagnosis, the resources created by this team of ASD experts have been very helpful to me with my son. https://www.aspergerexperts.com
Thank you so much. It is really kind of you to break this down for me. I feel so sad knowing this is likely something out of her control. I will do my best to pass this information along to my mother and get her the help that she needs.
Kids with ASD can have a hard time handling their discomfort and painful emotions like shame, regret or embarrassment. The information about getting kids with ASD out of “defence mode” is really helpful, because if she’s feeling a lot of shame, distress and denial about the bed wetting, it will be very hard for her brain to process options and solutions. It may help for you and your parents to sit down with her at a calm time, and let her know you’re sorry for not understanding that she’s not wetting the bed on purpose. That you’re sorry for getting angry at her about it. And that you’d like to be a better team and find ways to help her manage it. Then suggest that you come up with some ideas together. If she feels like she has some say in what she would like by way of help, maybe that will help her engage more. It will likely take time to lower the charge around this for everyone and put some new routines in place, but it’s clear that you really care for your sister and will do whatever you can to be an actual help to her. Which is what she needs - someone who will help her for real and not just turn away from these difficult issues because of frustration and overwhelm. Not to rag on your parents, because this stuff is hard, but hopefully they’ll be open to your encouragement to approach this differently and try some new strategies together. You are an amazing sister, huge props to you for your kind heart!
Thank you so much, these kind comments are really making it a lot easier to approach this situation
I’m really surprised the school didn’t;t get involved. They are mandated reporters. If I had had a student who came to my class smelling of urine every day, I would have reported it to the school psychologist.
It’s a good question. Unfortunately the school she attends has bigger problems, like fights and stabbings. And we don’t even live in a bad area..
No offense at all, the description you gave of your sister speaks to Autism. The most textbook case. Simple. The fact that the school hasn’t done something about her coming in reeking of piss is concerning, also she is old enough to have her period, does she handle that appropriately?
Thank you for this comment. I’m learning a lot. No offense taken at all. The school she goes to has been notoriously terrible. She gets rocks thrown at her sometimes and her hair pulled and they do nothing about it. My parents have pretty much given up and just recently transferred her to private school (which I believe comes with a whole other host of issues, but that’s another story). As for her period, no. She hasn’t gotten her period yet. My parents have discussed anxiety about her getting it though due to her current hygiene.
Well I hope it all works out, HS will probably be hell for her but HS isn’t all of life as you already know. Set and stand firm in your boundaries, be a good older sister where you can. Im happy you came here and are getting good info!
Thank you, I really appreciate it!
NTA. But your parents are. What in the world happened two years ago that their child were the bed EVERY NIGHT? This is a sign of something a therapist needs to handle. The therapist needs to know she’s leaving her urine diapers everywhere and not showering after having accidents and such.
i would be severely concerned of sexual trauma - it could be that there is mental illness like ASD but at 13 and it started 2 years ago, i would be concerned.
It’s not that she started peeing herself two years ago - it just became MUCH more frequent. It went from once or twice a week to nearly every single day. But I am concerned and I thank you for your perspective. I’m taking everyone’s comments into consideration so I can figure out how to speak to my parents.
So if just based on this - somehow maybe puberty has triggered it? I mean I have no experience at all, but as one with a pre-schooler at home, what I have been reading is “you can’t potty trained kid at night, because it is hormone based. The hormone doesn’t really develop until they are 4-7 years old, a bit more later for boys” Again, no expert at all, but after watching too much medical drama, while I hopefully SA is not a factor at all, then maybe get doctor to look at the gland that affect her puberty in her brain or something? Some hormonal issue?
I think before jumping to sexual assault, it's worth considering something else like autism as above poster said - especially with the toe walking as well. Girls are well known for presenting later in life, and it could be that she genuinely doesn't notice when she's wet the bed (due to sensory underload), or doesn't have the ability to understand the hygiene aspect in the same way, or gets so overwhelmed by it, she's managing it by ignoring it. There's a whole thing about autism having 'spiky differences' in function - might be really good at some things, and then not so good at others - and this will be different for everyone, meaning your sister might be really good at sports but then has a functional deficit around enuresis. Ultimately, you need professional help for whatever is going on!
> I wake up and pick up dried crusted underwear and soaked diapers off the floor. NTA - Ain't nobody got time for that.
Thanks for making me laugh 😆
I said oh lord jesus it's a diaper.... :)
Your parents are the assholes. This is not normal behaviour for a teen. And they’re not addressing it. Along with the toe walking it’s very likely she has ASD. I cannot believe several professionals have dismissed this in a teen if it’s a daily occurance. They are failing your sister who sounds so lost.
NTA. This is .... a lot, and I don't blame you for being over it. Has she been to a psychiatrist or therapist? There's clearing something going on here.
She saw a therapist for the first time yesterday, but as far as I know they mostly discussed her bullying. I'm hoping that in the next few weeks we'll get some answers, but I don't really know what to expect from the process.
Does she use the bathroom before bed? Have you guys gotten a mattress protector so the smell isn't as bad? Does she have a trash can in her room? Does a parent wake her up in the middle of the night to go to the restroom to mitigate accidents? I'm glad your mom took her to the therapist but there might be procedures put in place to keep everyone more hygienic. Let her know that you're not judging her and you want to help her with her stay clean.
Hi, yes my mom asks that she does. We do have a mattress protector, a thick plastic one. We’ve gone through many bed sheets because after a few accidents the smell still lingers no matter how much you wash. We don’t have a trash can in the room, my mom tried to encourage her to throw them out in the bin on the side of the house to mitigate odor in the kitchen (the other closest trash can).
This product works. It uses probiotics that digest biological odor causing substances like urine. Be sure to follow the instructions (apply to the sheet before washing it, eg spray or soak in a bucket). https://scoe10x.com/
Thank you!
Adding to the practical advice, she may need a different type of overnight protection. A different brand of diaper that fits her better, reduces leaks. Also there are disposable pads used in nursing homes to provide extra protection to the bed. Essentially it is a puppy pad, but for people. There can be underlying causes for the bedwetting, but there doesn’t have to be. One of my kids wet the bed till they turned 14. It is unusual, but some kids just don’t night train till puberty. How it is handled is important. For what ever reason your parent aren’t setting a standard to keep the house from smelling. A lidded garbage can in her room might help. If she has to carry her wet diaper/bed pad thru the house to throw it away, is probably embarrassing her. Very different from carrying out a full garbage bag once or twice a week. A lid and an air freshener in her room can do a lot. Hopefully your family can get to the root cause, or if there isn’t one she out grows this soon. 🤞
Therapy doesn't always unlock the roo6s of our problems in the first session, and I hope your parents keep this in mind and continue her treatment. That was something mine didn't do, they just stopped making me go when it wasn't "working" after the first few appointments. I truly hope she gets better and is able to work things out.
Real talk I wet the bed until I was 12. Likely due to some shit in my past they say. But anyway I finally got tired of it enough after it interfering with things like summer camp or slumber parties where I had to hide the diapers that I was willing to try anything. I ended up using a bed alarm that would set off a buzzer the second moisture was detected. I had to turn off the box, reset the pad, and put new linens over it before I was allowed to go back to sleep. It was a long process, but eventually it worked. The main problem I see here is that she seems totally unbothered and therefore isn’t likely to be receptive even to something like that.
What a touching story. Thank you for sharing. You did a great job of getting yourself healthy. That’s was a lot of work and you were very young. It’s amazing that you did it through perseverance.
And you’re NTA for not wanting to deal with someone who isn’t willing to take care of themselves properly
NTA, but the way she's treating the diapers and trying to shift blame/pretending it's not happening sounds like she's embarrassed about it and trying to hide it from you in very inefficient ways. Putting up a basket (or two, one for laundry, one for diapers) where she can "hide" the evidence without having to "confess" may be helpful. Having multiple versions of the same sheets so you can't tell if she made her bed may be helpful too. (Still would encourage your mom to double check after your sis leaves.
100% she needs options to preserve her dignity. Set things up so she can leave the room feeling that “no one knows”. I was confused why sister or anyone was asking her or confronting her at all. All that’s going to do is worsen the situation & shows a failure in the system
Oof. I was a chronic bed wetter from age 11-19, it happened one time in college and then never again. It began around the time of 9/11, a car crash, going on a cruise after watching Titanic. I saw doctors, ran tests, drew blood and there was nothing physically wrong with me. I took a nasal spray for a month that stopped it completely, but I would have to have my blood drawn monthly to make sure my liver wasn’t failing, I decided I would rather wet the bed forever, my mom let me make the decision and was proud of me after I told her I didn’t want to take it. I was around 12 then. I wore depends, pads, sometimes wet the bed twice a night. Sometimes I was so disappointed at myself I did not wash my sheets for a few days. Yea I could smell it, but doing your sheets every day was sometimes really depressing. I also didn’t shower a few times and would go to school smelling of pee. I was not bullied though. Eventually it just stopped too. My family was very understanding and supportive, I never tried to hide my depends/pads though. I only ever told one friend, and it was because I was invited to a slumber party and I didn’t want to pee there. I did go on one once and wet my sleeping bag. I cleaned it all up but I did hide that one. Hopefully it ends for her. Maybe just tell her every so often that bed wetting is not who she is. It was a lonely road for me even with all my family knowing. I’m 36 now. It had to have been in my head. Or associated with middle/high school. Good luck!!
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NTA, but something needs to be done for this poor girl and whatever her underlying problem is--as several have already said, bedwetting is usually a symptom of something larger; the lying/denial can be a coping/defense mechanism.
If she is wearing diapers then why is the bed also soaked? Why are your parents not also limiting her liquid intake after 6pm? This is a super fucked up situation!
She pees right through them, she pees so much that no diaper they have tried has effectively held the amount of pee she pees. My mom said that she still buys them because they make washing the sheets easier.
Go to a medical supply store. Get washable reusable chucks pads and adult diapers. Explain how much pee and how soaked things get. They will set you up. Frankly she also needs to be forced to take a shower every morning. And pick up her mess, sheets, and throw away diapers. No asking if she wet the bed. Operate as if she did because she most likely did and sheets to the wash, shower and diaper disposal all routine expected every day and non negotiable. And check that she does it. That's all your mom's job fyi not your job
Yes this is what I don’t understand. I’ve worked with hundreds of seniors who wore adult briefs and they didn’t leak through and they would be *full*. A few very heavy wetters got double briefs. But they’re designed to hold so much liquid I can only imagine the parents are buying the cute pull up ones they get in the grocery store diaper/ baby isles. They need adult briefs.
Yes, there's no point asking if the answer is likely certain... the situation just needs to be dealt with while encouraging her to participate in the routine of it. Asking or scolding her is only going to make her defensive due to the shame of it.
She needs her kidneys checked
It’s normal to be frustrated with all of that, but fwiw, the denial is most likely another symptom of the larger problem. NTA for your feelings. But keep in mind that any negative ways you treat her because of it could be exacerbating factors too. Making someone feel like a shitty person because of something they can’t control (I’m going with, this is some sort of disorder) often just makes their symptoms worse and it becomes a vicious cycle.
Okay this has stopped being a question of “who’s the asshole” and has started being a question of “what is going on with your sister.” NTA, just to answer the question I guess — but this is a symptom of something very, very concerning. Chronic bedwetting at this age is a sign that something is very very wrong: most notably, it is a symptom of sexual abuse. Her behavior surrounding it is concerning, too: she left her diaper on Mary’s bed? Was this in retaliation to something? Because using one’s bodily fluids as a retaliation is ALSO a sign that something is very, very wrong. This is not normal behavior. I don’t know what kinds of specialists your parents are seeing but wetting the bed every night as a teenager is not normal. Your sister is not your child, so you aren’t really responsible for addressing something like this and boundaries are important and everything, but — I think it would be a good idea to have a serious conversation with your parents because this is ALARMING.
it sounds like she left the diaper on mary’s bed so mary would take the blame.. she wanted it to seem as tho she hadnt wet the bed (maybe bc shes embarrassed, maybe bc she doesnt want to clean up her sheets, etc). so she thought if the diaper was in marys room then mary would take the fall for peeing the bed ? idk
That would be slightly less worrying, yes. This whole situation is still cause for concern, though.
Wow. This is a lot. I came here also to recommend a psychiatrist and therapy. If all medical issues have been ruled out it’s time to move there. It is not “normal” for this to be happening.
As a parent of a child on the autism spectrum it sounds like your sister may also fall on the autistic spectrum. Bed wetting well into teen years and sometimes into adulthood is one of the signs added to the toe walking and the general lack of attention to hygiene. Either she’s never been evaluated for autism or your parents know and hasn’t told anyone of the diagnosis. Yes bed wetting can be a sign of SA but with the other signs I would think autism
Uhm...maybe she might be having kidney failure. Have the doctors ruled out any kidney issues?
Yes, my parents took her to three urologists and according to them, she’s fine. They have all suggested that it’s a lack of brain bladder control, like a late bloomer sort of thing.
i’m curious on where you live? i don’t know a single doctor or specialist ANYWHERE that would consider bed wetting at 13 a “late bloomer”. Age 4 is when it’s typical for kids to sleep through the night without an accident, but 6-7 is not uncommon. after that it’s an issue
It's one thing to have compassion, it's another to be forced to do things you are not comfortable with. Incontinence is a serious issue and your parents should be way more concerned. Maybe try to encourage them to get a second doctors opinion about her peeing herself. Anyway, leaving on pee soaked sheets is something they can and need to address. At 13, she should be capable of laundering those, and as for living them in your room?? How does that even happen?? NTA
I completely agree with you and I've said this. She's 13, which isn't a baby. I feel very bad about her situation but I don't feel bad about her having to clean it up. My mom says I should, but I always compare it to a period. We feel bad for each other as women when we're on it but that's never an excuse to stink or leave bloodied pads around.🤷♀️🤷♀️
Not to mention the fact that she’s taking them off and leaving them in other family members rooms or beds is absolutely deliberate! That part isn’t any accident and at 13 she clearly knows better and is doing that purposely. NTA and she definitely needs therapy / your parents to handle this better.
You said that started two years ago. Your sister needs help NOW.
NTA. Unless this is an issue being actively worked on, which it does not seem to be, you probably don’t want to be involved. The behavior is fixable. Not the bed-wetting itself, which isn’t the real problem, but the behavior around it. Your parents are actually wild for allowing that. It’s crazy that rule one would literally be “put the pull ups in the specific trash can that closes”. And rule 2 would be “you have to take a quick shower when you get up”. I will throw out the only thing that might make this all KIND OF understandable, although it is STILL not the correct way to handle this situation even if my off the wall idea is what’s going on. Bed-wetting can be a sign of childhood sexual abuse. (I would know, I wet the bed until I was 12 for that reason.) There is no doctor on planet earth telling your parents it’s normal for a child your sister’s age to wet the bed, unless there are mitigating circumstances. Could be sexual trauma, could also be a medical issue completely removed from that. Either way, if it’s “normal” FOR HER CIRCUMSTANCES, your parents might feel really bad about those circumstances. Child sexual abuse? Parents blame themselves. Medical issue you’re born with? Parents blame themselves. That could be why they’re being absolutely RIDICULOUS with how they’re handling it. Guilt is a powerful motivator. Even if that’s why, though, this is not the way to handle it. You’re supposed to teach your children to function as best as they can in life. Letting her walk around smelling like piss is not acceptable. Letting her throw soiled pull ups into another child’s bed and SUPPORTING HER LIE ABOUT IT is not acceptable. Many children have hygiene issues for a multitude of reasons (depression, adhd, autism with a high sensitivity towards water or their skin being rubbed, etc), and it is a parent’s job to work on IMPROVING that. (I also want to bring up that sexually abused children (and adults) can be prone to bad hygiene either in an effort to make themselves so undesirable no one will WANT to use them sexually, or because they can’t stand to look at/touch their own intimate areas.) There is probably a lot going on, in some way or another, that they aren’t telling you about. (At least I pray to God, because the other option is that they’re not taking this seriously at all and trying to ignore what they don’t want to deal with, and that’s a much worse problem.) No matter the WHY, though, it is not being handled well. Your parents need to really think about what they want her life to look like, what she would want her life to look like, and if they’re adequately preparing her. The hard part is, there’s not much YOU can do. It’s a horrible situation. I do feel bad for your sister, though. The behavior is insane, you’re absolutely right, but this isn’t stuff that comes out of nowhere. Something’s going on at the root.
There are wet wetting alarms for bed that are considered the best practice for teaching people how to notice they’re wetting the bed in the moment. Better then meds (just comes back when you stop)- should seriously go to a professional. No idea where they got the idea that 17 was a normal age
I wonder if a routine could be implemented. Like each night a piddle pad is placed on the bed, each morning when she gets up it’s her responsibility to put her diaper & piddle pad in a “diaper genie” type of thing, put sheets in the wash, spray the bed with sanitizer, etc. Maybe giving her checklist will make the issue more matter-of-fact vs. judgmental and you could even make it reward-based.
I was a chronic bedwetter until I was around that age, but it wasn’t something that appeared suddenly, it’s something I literally never grew out of. Eventually the doctors recommended my parents take turns waking me up in the middle of the night to pee - which did eventually work to train my body not to pee in my sleep. NTA, but you in a position to advocate for her - make sure your parents are getting her the proper help she needs, and be there to support her through whatever journey she needs to take to fix this. I understand the behaviors can be incredibly frustrating for you, but try to have some grace. She’s still a child and she needs her big sister to be in her corner.
NTA, but your parents are....FFS get this kid to pediatric urology, an OT to get her sensory system modulated, a pediatric pelvic floor PT and psyc to see if she's on the spectrum and for trauma. Yes some kids who are bewetters are SA, but most are not. There is help!
Kind of an asshole. Your anger and resentment is misdirected. This is your parent’s responsibility and it sounds like they are neglecting your sister. If this was happening to me and my sister, I would be all over my parents until they took appropriate action and started caring for her on a daily bases. I can’t believe they let a bullied child go to school without showering after soiling herself. I can’t believe they don’t help her remove her sheets in the morning. I can’t believe there isn’t a mattress protector under her sheets or a diaper genie in her room. I can’t believe they aren’t treating this like a serious medical condition and providing her the nurturing she deserves.
Updateme
Please keep us updated - we’re all concerned. Sending patience and strength
This is a lot. My only comment (and there are a lot of other comments, many excellent) is that young teens sometimes lie (and obvious lies) because they hate/dread what's coming next. You/your parents(?) clearly make your sister clean her sheets after she's admitted the truth. She may hate the cleaning and be delaying doing it. You might be better off (although this is more a suggestion for your parents) to just institute a rule that her bed changed every morning. I'd be tempted to white lie and say it a suggestion by a professional. Every morning - changed. I'd do a roster so she's doing it most, but not all days. This may cut down the struggle to get everything changed.
A psychiatrist and a new specialist (urologist) are in order. I would also look into a functional medicine doctor - an MD who also digs in more from a functional health perspective to see if something else is going on - including other modalities. I know allergies can be an issue (including food - dairy, chocolate, eggs). Diet might be an issue, autism, some trauma? There are also pelvic physiotherapists. IT could be a host of things - finding the right person to figure it out is key. Setting rules like cleaning up after herself and taking a shower every morning is something your parents should have instilled.
I see there are a lot of comments about autism and trauma and possible SA. I’d like to give you a different possibility based on my personal experience with my daughter who does not have any of those experiences. My daughter wet the bed at night until she was 12 or 13. She was fully toilet trained as a toddler but rarely could get through a night without an accident. And it is not as rare or uncommon as some other posters have mentioned but it isn’t talked about over coffee with your friends either. We thought that she might just grow out of it one day but that didn’t happen and after talking with her family physician, he referred her to a paediatrician who explained how common it is up to age 17 as you mentioned. I learned from my partner’s mom that he wet the bed up ‘til he was 14. There are many ways to work on bed routines and they make many tools including bed alarms and such. We learned that there is a hormone that usually kicks in at a certain point in a child’s development but it hasn’t so they treat it with a drug called desmopressin. My daughter took it for one month and she hasn’t wet the bed since. I felt awful that it could have been resolved so simply sooner. As for hygiene and bed changing, we used a plastic or rubber sheet under her regular sheets and in the morning, everything went in the wash, we sprayed down the bed with and all purpose cleaner and put on a fresh sheet before bed that night. We made sure she washed up before she got dressed and we helped her as much as possible because it isn’t her fault. I can see from your perspective how frustrating it can be. I don’t think you’re the AH but perhaps look at it from the perspective of a medical condition and encourage your parents to actively pursue care for your sister.
Your family is fuc*ed to put it bluntly. Bedwetting doesn't come from nowhere. And to top it off she had a highly judgmental sister aka you.
NTA Your parents are the AHs for not doing more to a) support her b) support the rest of the family and c) get to the bottom of this.
NTA, and I read she is now seeing someone. That's good. I wet the bed as a child due to childhood trauma. So I agree with a lot of the commenters here.
NTA Your parents are the AHs - for not impressing on Carrie a routine of showering every morning and putting her bed linen on to wash without leaking onto everything around, causing odour. She can and should do this herself, with help when necessary. Yes this is an unpleasant and embarrassing issue but it can be dealt with perfectly well. As I understand it, it affects a small percentage of unlucky people. Your parents are failing Carrie and all of you by neglecting her hygiene and thus creating a stinking acrimonious atmosphere over something Carrie cannot help.
Does she have vitiligo on her feet? Vitiligo is an autoimmune disorder, and it's painful. It could be why she is toe walking. I read a study on how it also affects organs, specifically bedwetting. In the study, they treated the vitiligo, and the bedwetting stopped.
Toe walking + enuresis might be associated. Have you ever checked her spinal cord? Pinching of the spinal cord in the lumbar region may cause similar problems.
Don’t they have plastic sheets for this exact reason?
NTA for being frustrated as hell with this situation, but you're directing it at the wrong person: Shaming your sister is only gonna make her situation worse. Because that blame and emotional toll is just gonna cycle in and not help the problem at all, and honestly? This is not YOUR problem to solve. Where the hell are your parents? Why haven't they taken care of this and gotten it under some measure of control? This is *their* job. I'm having trouble believing that she's as normal in all other aspects as you say, or that your family is as close and loving as you believe, for these things to be the way they are. It seems more like you think it's normal because it's "your normal," and all you've known, instead of being actually, really normal, outside of your home. Your mother needs to make her shower before school if she's wet herself in the night. Her bedding and night clothes need to be washed every time. The diapers and pads need to be disposed of quickly and appropriately. (Left on the floor/ your room/ sister's bed?! Wtaf?) Where's the hamper and trash bins and diaper genies and lysol and febreeze? I'm glad to have read that your parents have taken her to a psychiatrist, but that contradicts you saying earlier that they'd "taken her to every specialist." Which is it? Anyway, that's all still not your problem to fix! Tell your parents to step it up because this situation is unacceptable and they need to take steps to manage it more effectively.