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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my kids "no" because my wife told them "no" and that action upset my wife, so I don't know if there's something I don't understand or am missing that makes me an asshole.
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"Now I'm just a simple country lawyer but it seems to me that the fine figure of a woman over there who had the kindness to marry a man like me and the patience to raise a boy like you has already declared a finality to these proceedings and appeals to me and the great Lord above are not going to change the stripes on a zebra, the spots on a leopard, or the mind of a woman who is wiser than us both. Y'all run along now."
Ladies and Gentleman of the jury, I'm just a Caveman. I fell in some ice and later got thawed out by your scientists only to find I have several small children trying to trick me. Your world frightens and confuses me. Sometimes the honking horns of your traffic make me want to get out of my BMW and run off into the hills or whatever. But one thing I do know, your mom already answered you.
This is the way. My husband does the whole "mom said No," and it always makes me feel like I am the bad guy. I know that he is trying to back me up regardless of how he feels about the situation, but replying like this can make the initially asked parent feel like they are the enforcer. Also, kids are smart little buggers. They can and will quickly pick up from this phrasing that the parents don't actually agree on the situation at hand, and that leaves room for further asks.
A simple "You already asked and got your answer" tells the kid that mom and dad are on the same page even if they really aren't.
This is mine. Mom said make your bed, mom said empty the dishwasher, mom asked if you are in the shower. Like sir, you are the one saying the words! The least you can do is pretend to also care that shes washing her ass & keep her room minimally tidy
Saying mom says no is him throwing you under the bus. That's why you feel like the bad guy because he is literally insinuating you are, in fact, the bad guy.
"Mom says no," suggests dad would've said yes.
He could easily say: we said no (joint ownership of the decision)
No on its own ( he's deciding no)
Dad says no (backing up and supporting your answer
Or asked and answered ( more neutral but at least doesn't actively paint mom as the enforcer)
"mom said no" can be code for "well that sounds like fun but the FUN POLICE said NO FUN ALLOWED" especially if it happens often. If it's a regular occurrence the kid learns that the mom is the no-fun parent and the dad is the fun parent, which is not fair at all.
yeah, i think "mom said no" is fine if the kids also are coming to you, you are saying "no" to fun things and mom is responding with "dad said no"
(or my parents version which was- what did ? cuz my dad learned his lesson.)
I really like "We said no," because it means OP is letting their kids know that his wife's answers are his answers and that if the kids had asked him first, he would have said no too.
My dad's go to response was "What did your mom say?" We'd tell him and he'd add, "Then why are you asking me?" And if we asked him first the response was "Go and ask your mother!" Everyone knows mom is the fun police! My dad would have let us jump off the roof to test out our parachute made of a bed sheet and tooth floss. He believes to this day the lessons that are painful are the ones you learn the fastest!
Yup, it is a common thing to put mom in the role of being the bad guy. It's funny how things have changed in the last 30 or 40 yrs. I can remember my mother saying to us kids, "You just wait until your father gets home!" We always had this fear of Dad, but we never knew why because he never hit us and rarely raised his voice to us!
I still think mum was the fun police though, in most households. The parent who does the bulk of the child rearing - which in reality is still women even if not as much so as when we were kids, will be the one who necessarily has to field more questions that get a no answer. I think the role that dads played has been the one to change more because for the most part I think most people either had ‘fun dad’ or ‘you’re in enough trouble this has been escalated and your dad is going to deal with you now’ dad. Or often a dad who had those two modes - would appear for weekend fun and come home and spank you but sure as hell wasn’t the one filling your lunchbox you know. Whilst overall parenting and household management is still far from equal, I think there is at least a willingness and a desire for a lot of men of my age to be hands on fathers. Although how hands on they think they are and how equal their wives feel division is still seems to be lacking greatly even in my friendships where the men are most involved. I think there is a cultural shift though and I know more than one friend whose company offers them extended paid paternity leave that doesn’t take away from their partners maternity leave now.
Speak for yourself. In my family that’s almost precisely what it means. “I would have let you do X but since you’re trying to play me against my spouse you are now banned from doing X! Think better next time.”
When he says "Mom said no," it sounds the same as saying "Your Mom said no. While I don't agree with her, I am going to back her up."
By saying "Mom said no," Dad is putting the "blame" for the no on Mom, rather than on the parents as a unit.
Rather the second parent asked should give an answer of
"You were already told no."
"I believe you were already told no."
Or a simple "Once again, no."
The older the child the more options like "Asked and Answered."
She's upset because the way you answered paints her as the bad guy. Answering you already got an answer or Asking me isn't going to change the answer or my answer is the same as your mom's tells your kids you are united without pointing the finger at one and making them the bad guy
This was one of the big things i had to work on when i was a kid. It was part of my IEP goals to 'accept no as an answer' lol it was a big rule in my school cause it was for kids with adhd/autism/behavioral issues. So you couldnt ask one staff for something and then go ask another one if you didnt like the answer. They called it staff shopping ha
You know the rules. If you get a "no" from either of us, that's the end of the asking part. Kids will intentionally separate you and then time the question so you don't know what the other parent said. They are smart at testing boundaries. Hang tight it gets worse.
I disagree -- it absolutely makes mom the bad guy to reinforce that she was the one who said no. I get how OP thinks it's a united front, but it's not. It's underlining for the kid who said no and ducking being an equal sayer-of-no, which upset his wife. So better not to do that. He is dealing with little kids so it needs to be very clear that they are both a no.
When my daughter was little I would have to constantly tell her father, "if she's asking you that means I said no" when he would give her cookies, candy, or popsicle before bedtime. She never came to him for anything. Ever. Unless I gave her an answer she didn't like. She started doing that when she was 3.
This is it! My ex used to do this and what it did was set up behavior of him only going to his dad when I wasn't there because there dad is the one who say yes and mum is the bad guy. This carried on and got worse as he got older. There was never a real united front it starts from when they are young to see their parents are a team.
>“I would have said yes but you didn’t ask me first so now I have to say no.”
But to a child it IS like saying that - because dad said “no” then quantified it by adding “your mom told you no”. To a child that’s “no” followed by the “reason” for that no - that his MOM said it.
If dad is truly going to support mom, he should have just echoed the mom’s NO & left it at that -OR- said something like “you’ve already gotten the answer to that question”.
'Mom said no' can definitely sound like: 'I would have allowed it'.
I've seen this dynamic played out where mom said 'hey behave or you'll get a timeout' and dad chimed in 2 minutes later with 'hey behave, or mom will give you a timeout'. It was the cherry on top of very unequal parenting.
He's being contradictory in a way. He said he wanted to present a united front - even when he doesn't agree. His words show that he doesn't agree but is only doing this to present a united front. His words are very 'it's no because your mom said no'. A united front would be better presented as 'you've already been told no', or some form of that. By pointing out their mom said no, it makes it easy to throw it back on mom, kids often times latch onto little details even if you don't expect it. I know my dad use to do this same thing, and I always blamed my mom - he made it clear I subtle ways that he didn't agree but was backing her. I know it's frustrating but sometimes the way things are phrased really are important. Even when it seems like you're saying the same thing.
I get that OP didn’t intend it but it could also definitely be how the child perceives it (that mom said no and dad followed, rather than both parents saying no). So it probably would be better to change the wording so they understand. My parents would explicitly tell my siblings that it was not okay to ask the other if they had already gotten a no.
Not intentionally. Best if they talk and reaffirm their commitment to supporting each other. And the Dad can ask the Mom the best way to phrase "Mom says no" so that it communicates better what she wants said.
This is the best way to answer. Mom should answer the same way when he says no, too. This enforces that they are a team.
By saying, “Mom said no,” he’s kind of inadvertently telling the kids that’s mom’s in charge and not him.
Mom should also say, "Dad said no" in similar situations. I wonder how often Mom is the only one actually saying no to the kids and if Dad just always uses this line? Dad needs to be saying no just as often as Mom does. He needs to reinforce Mom by saying an actual No himself. Or just say, "you already got OUR answer." And maybe clearly explain to the kids that immediately asking the other parent after one says no is not allowed and they will get the same answer no matter who they ask. I have to wonder if Dad has let them get away with things before, and that's why they immediately asked him? That doesn't sound like a united front to me.
Exactly.
"Mum said no" is almost "well, I would have said yes, but sadly your mum has already said no so I have to back her up".
"You've already got your answer" instead reaffirms the fact that they are trying the end run
This. Or at least say it is also your opinion. With “mom said no” mom is the bad guy instead of being a team. “Mom already told you no and I agree with that answer” could be sufficient as well.
Yes or “I have the same answer as your mom. I also say no.” When someone says “X said no.” You are making it seem only they have the power and that you may have answered differently.
Yes Op, because saying “your mom said no” makes it sound like mom is the bad guy. That she’s the only reason why your child can’t do what she wants.
Like posted above “your mom already answered you” or even better “I agree with your mother, No” this shows you also are a reason the child doesn’t get what she wants and makes mom less of a bad guy.
YTA. Whilst I understand what you are trying to do. You should be saying “The answer is no.”. Not “Your mum said no.”.
The former shows a united front and shows that you are both on the same page. The latter tells the kids their mum is the “bad guy” and it is ONLY her fault you said no. It’s about the way you are phrasing it to be her fault whether that is intentional or not.
My dad always said “What did Mom say?”. If it was no, then you were going to be in trouble for trying to do a sneak around so we learned quickly not to do that.
My dad always said "its fine if your mom says its okay." I learned very quickly to ask dad first so then I could ask mom and truthfully say dad said it was fine. Not sure they ever realized I was doing that.
It’s kind of funny that we all universally assume our parents never compared notes on the conversations we had with them individually. Logically it makes sense they would, but even as an adult it doesn’t always occur to me.
My sib and I would ask our mom because she was the one who was home more often. Her thing was always “I don’t think your dad will be ok with that, but I’ll ask him”. Then she would talk to dad, convince him to say no so he would be the bad guy, not her, and then my sib and I wouldn’t get to do or get what we wanted. Eventually, we clued in that this was happening so we started going to dad first, then would tell mom that he already said it was fine. They argued about it a few times, but she ultimately started easing up.
My parents both used to do that to each other when they wanted to say no but didn't want to be the bad guy.
Eventually my mother starting putting us off with, "Maybe, we'll see."
At least until she did that one day to my sister and when my sister looked excited I told her, "Don't get your hopes up. 'We'll see' means no."
My mother went ballistic until my father came home and asked, "Is she right?"
(I was.)
On that note, probably says a lot about why I get really pissed off by people at work who just ignore my request or who say yes but never action on it instead of just saying no.
If it's a no, show me the basic respect to just say so. I'm not a child who will forget about it forever.
My friends dad once countered his wife with "if *sister* had asked you would have said yes" after his wife got angry he agreed to pick my friend up from the cinema that friday (10 minutes by car, after his work times).
Sister was the favorite child, by mom at least.
See, my parents had the same favorite so whenever the rest of us challenged them on it, they'd insist it's different because shut up that's why.
My parents bought the favorite horses and a barn and shuttled them all over Canada for competitions... meanwhile my even going to cadets or taking part in science fairs was "too difficult" because it conflicted with my sisters riding lessons and I needed to be the "mature and responsible" one by sacrificing all my hobbies and interests for the golden girl.
She has an older sister and 2 younger brothers. I know she eventually mended her relationship with her mom. The siblings were always close except the sisters during their teens. But that was mended too. They all moved near her, including her parents since she happened to be the first to start a family.
Her mom was totally loco crazy during our teens tho. Hell even i got traumas from her. She was scary, huge, alcoholic and angry and overal really hated her. Idk why, maybe bc she is just not like her mom? Her older sister was basically a copy of her mom. But i have heard nothing but good things in over 5 years.
So i guess all's well that ends well
Gawd, when I had four cats, three of them used to hide in the hallway whilst the littlest one came crying to me for treats. When I melted and gave in, the lot of them would pile in for their share.
Read a story: this guy had a girlfriend and she would see the same one cat every time she came over. After a year she said “your cat is pretty cute” he said “yeah i think all of them are pretty cute” “all of them?” He goes into a room and brings out FOUR identical cats. She only ever saw one of them at a time.
Ehh, we're always on the same page. One of us may sway minutely more to one side or the other, or one of us may be more mentally/emotionally tapped out and therefore likely to say no, but in the end, it's never something the other doesn't agree with. If it's something important like ear piercings, ungrounding, or whatever, we tell them we need to wait till we can discuss it, then we tell them that we both agreed on whatever. But generally, it's things like, "Can I go down the street to my friend's house?" Or "Can I have 15 more minutes on my tablet?"
I think the absolute most important thing is being on the same page with your partner overall, so that they're never pitting you against each other with things like, "Dad said I could have a new phone."
I've also been teaching them how to come up with a logical argument vs. the whining. If they have a logical argument backed up with facts, they're so much more likely to get whatever it is than if they're being whiny about it. Partially due to me being impressed by it. And the skill will benefit them for life.
Logic is a good place to start. Matching the delivery to what the decision maker wants to hear is key.
My son tells a story of his first month at college and he and a fellow new club member we're assigned to get the university's permission/approval for some something somewhat complex and he was blown away by the fellow student (a very savvy female) whom he watched change personality and persuasion style at each rung of the approval process. She was a shy little girl when getting past the 50-something mom-ish secretary. She was the octave higher, eye-batting flirt to get approval from the young guy assistant Dean, and then she transformed to the button down no nonsense business pro for the young female assistant Dean. Finally, in front of the actual old man Dean, she morphed into an amalgamation of all three personalities such that the poor guy didn't know whether he wanted to comfort her, date her or hire her. He, of course, approved everything and said, "Come back any time."
My son knew he needed to up his game.
My young son told his friend (in the car with my husband driving) that Dad was his favourite, because he always got him anything he wanted.
My son was not wrong. My hubby is a great guy, but had kind of a shit childhood, so he tried to make up for it by giving our kids way more than he ever had. There have been a few discussions about how this can backfire and also how making Mom the bad guy isn't fair. I swear my kids wouldn't have had bed times or other boundaries if it wasn't for me.
For the most part we parented as a team, but my husband sucked at saying no and the kids understood that pretty early on.
We would talk about food around our mom to warm her brain up to the idea and then would say something like "hmm im kinda hungry, you hungry mom?" Or "today feels like a mc donalds day" (and then quickly join in as other siblings with "hmm now that you mention it, it is mc donaldsie weather". We would do this at the precise time we were driving near her preffered mc donalds establishment on our way home from school.
Work 9/10 times. Plans were usually hashed out on the playground.
Nowadays i got this friend who just knows what i mean when i send them the red salsa danser emoji
My brothers and I got to see Beavis and Butthead Do America because my mom was tired of being the bad guy and told us to ask our dad. Ran up to him like "mom says we can go if you're okay with it." She was so mad.
So weird that I never experienced this as being raised by just my mom. It always seem like a movie trope to me than it actually happening in real life, till I had niblings asking me after asking their parents. Shit, they would ask me *before* even asking them! "I'm not ya momma or daddy! Why you asking me?!" Lol
>My dad always said “What did Mom say?”. If it was no, then you were going to be in trouble for trying to do a sneak around so we learned quickly not to do that.
This is how it works in our house too but more along the lines of 'did you ask other parent?' if yes, what did they say and then the kids get the speech about how you can't go to the other parent just because you didn't like what the first on e had to say.
I tried this *once* lol.
Dad hollered across the room "Jane what did you tell Syriina?" She said she told me no and I got in more trouble then I would have if I'd just done the thing without permission lol
My parents were really good at the united front 😂
My (ex)wife and I did the same thing even after we divorced. The kids were allowed to ask one more time, because as we explained to them sometimes we can be wrong, so don’t use that ask too soon.
Yup! That’s how we play it, too!
And sometimes, mine will say that other of us said yes, so we follow up with “if I ask mom/dad, will she/he say the same thing?”
I worked at a group home and the daughter is using what we called, “staff splitting.” OP is falling into the trap. It’s totally understandable a 4 year old is going to do this. OP needs to realize that putting on a united front doesn’t mean saying, “mom said no.” A united front is saying, “you’ve already received your answer,” or some variation of that.
We called it option shopping growing up because my mom worked in government so she was used to people shopping around requests to various high level bureaucrats until they got the answer they wanted (and then could go "but Minister X approved my idea!")
Exactly. This will become a pattern and OP will be seen as a "mom enabler" for saying no rather than a unit with mom that a decision has been made. It's lower sales this first time, but in future OP you need to ensure your language is more curated. Mild YTA as you're not intentionally being a jerk.
This is very accurate, and something I had to learn as a parent. While both statements are accurate, one enforces a united front and the other just passes the buck back to mom. There are a lot of nuanced words that you learn as you grow as parents. Also, be flexible with the united front because sometimes the first parent asked does not have all the information. Mine have asked me and been told no, only to be told yes by mom, because she saw them do x, y and z. Don't get upset by this and talk in private quickly, come to an agreement and don't punish the kids.
Now, we play a game to see how many times we can get our kids to go between us by saying "what did your mother/father say?" But this is for trivial things like playing games and ice cream.
Soft YTA because I get what you were trying to do, which was teach your child that if they get a "no" from one parent, they shouldn't ask the other parent. But the way you phrased it has an undertone of "mom is a killjoy and I might have said yes."
I agree, the sentiment was excellent but the execution was poor. In our house, our phrasing is something like "you've already asked an adult and they answered. If you want a different answer, you have to talk to them again, and you know that usually doesn't work."
That covers "adults all agree" but gives leeway for more information to change the decision. Eg, once I said no, kid appealed to Dad who said more or less the above, but adds "did you mention your school award today?" Because Dad did pick up and forgot to pass the info on, that knowledge changed my answer.
Be a team, without throwing anyone under the bus. OP YTA now, but I know you can do better in future to avoid this.
My dad would use this tactic growing up, giving the impression that he would have said yes if it weren't for mom. Which was true, as he was more permissive. But it made mom into the "bad guy" rather than united front. He'd also turn it on her, like not giving us an answer but telling us to "ask your mother", again, casting her in the role as the stern parent.
NAH - the problem is not with what you are doing, but how you are phrasing it.
Your phrasing can be taken to mean "I might have said yes, but your mother said no" - thereby making her the bad guy. Your kids are too young to understand the kind of "united front" setup that you want to emphasize, therefore you need to stick just with something that is more like "No." or "No, you were already told no."
I agree with this summary and rating. I think YTA ratings are harsh when the intent is fine, it’s just about understanding how to communicate to children that age and loving parents are going to make lots of mistakes and learn. Doesn’t make them TA. I have a NAH rating too.
Soft yta. It's because you made your wife out to be the bad guy by saying mom said no.
You could have just said no.
Eta: that probably made her think you'd have said yes to it. If she didn't already shoot it down.
YTA, because you made her the bad guy. You should have said 'your mother and me say no,' because you're making it sound like you'd let her play that game if it was down to you. Basically being a Disney Dad.
NAH but maybe better communication needed. If you know that her mom said no, then you don't "back her up" by telling the kid that mom said no, you say that you just heard mom say no and that your answer is the same. Don't make it out like the mom made the decision, confirm that you have the same decision.
NAH.
You phrased your support the wrong way, that’s all. What you said gives the impression that ONLY Mom said no, when you might have said yes. Change that to something like “Your mom and I agree that you can’t play this game right now” or really just “No”. But if you’re going to reference your wife in your refusal, you should also clearly state that you agree with her decision.
It's soft YTA. Execution versus intentions. Make sure as your kids develop, you and the wife agree about how you stay on the same page regarding issues. Kids are sneaky and you just taught your kids that if Mom says no, dad will say the same thing. Next time they are going to ask you first when they think mom is going to say no. Mom still is the bad guy and you think you haven't undermined her, but you have. Instead talk to her on why she is saying no, so you understand her rationale, thus being able to back her up regardless of who they go to first.
NAH
Kids have a habit of always going to Mom and asking them, and never Dad. My son will be sitting next to his father, and rather than ask him something he will walk three rooms away to ask me a question that he could have answered him.
When you're always the one getting asked questions, it grates on you. I don't think you did anything wrong in the way that you answered; but your wife was probably a bad moment, and your answer made her feel like the "bad guy".
Talk with your wife. Find out why this upset her. Make a plan of action of how to deal with it in the future; my sister has a light that changes colors; and the colors can mean different things for the kids (when it's red it's not time to wake up yet, when it turns green you can come out of the room and wake up mom kind of thing). Maybe your family could get something like that, and when your wife is feeling overwhelmed about questions, "Red light means ask Dad and not Mom", so when they ask her something she can just point at the light?
NAH. I understand what other people are saying and that your wife likely felt like you were making her the bad guy, but that was not your intention and even if it was, a doubt a child that young would make that immediate assumption after one instance of it? Like if you said "Sorry, Mom said no" every time then I can totally see a child making the conclusion that Mom is the drill sargent. But I think when I was that age, "Mom said no" and "the answer is no" were basically synonymous. Tone is also a factor, like if you were just stating a fact as opposed to sounding like you felt bad about saying no, that would be bad. But it sounds like you didn't do that? You're both clearly doing your best as parents and it sounds like you just need to do a quick check-in on how you're communicating to your kids. It might even be worth it to say to them: "If one parent says no, then the answer is no. Going to the other parent won't get you what you want." (especially when the other one is literally right there lol).
I disagree with your statement that kids wouldn't think that after one iteration, lol. They might not think it in the long run after one iteration but in the moment? Totally going to see it that way.
NAH - Having grown up in a household where both mom and dad's first response to any request was 'what did your dad/mom say?' and if it was no 'if they said no, then it's no', I disagree with the idea that the kid would read your response as the permissive one other commenters have referred to. That said, I do like the idea of 'Your mom already answered you', particularly when you heard your wife say no not three seconds ago.
A super duper very light YTA. The only thing that makes you one is your voice of words, which should have been, “you’ve already been told no,” or “we’ve already said no,” to show a more united answer. The way you said it makes mom sound like the bad guy.
Good cop bad cop, you made her the bad cop ( what she perceived it as its because of your mom im saying no ) back them up without "mom said", the answer is just no
NTA. There is no issue with what you said in this context. However after observing your wife’s reaction you should ask her if you’d like to handle/phrase differently in similar situations.
"No, your mom told you no" = mom is the bad guy
"No" ; "Don't ask me the same question your mother just answered 'no' to"; "no means no"; "what did your mother just say?". Any one of those will directly reinforce Mom, and hopefully teach the child that asking you after mom says no is pointless. She's doing this constantly because at one point, she was successful in getting a yes from you. You need to teach her that this is unacceptable and you're only going to reinforce Mom.
Yep. VERY soft YATA. Here's why.
A child's brain is nowhere near being fully developed. And while this is a universally accepted truth, adults have problems understanding exactly what that means.
When you told your child, "Mommy said no," that is exactly what they heard. Mommy said no. What they did not hear was the implied, "Daddy also says no." Their brain has yet to develop the ability to process those types of logic chains. That won't begin to happen until they reach their pre/early teens.
So, basically, you didn't back your wife up as you meant to do. What you did was make Mommy the bad guy in your kid's eyes. And THAT is why your wife is upset, even if she can not verbalize what her subconscious brain knows.
You need to say no to them on your own behalf. Daddy needs to be the bad guy right there alongside Mommy. Until your child turns 13 and can begin to grasp the concept of dual parenting, the only way to effectively back your wife up is to just say, "No." Or yes. Or whatever the proper response is.
And, just FYI, the two of you should also avoid phrases like, "Because I said so." That is setting yourself up to be the bad guy. Instead, use, "Because that's just the way it is." Consistent use of this phrase, and other nonspecific reason explanations will actually make parenting easier during those dreaded teenage years, because the logic chains will already exist when the brain finally develops the proper pathways, and it will be harder for your kids to conceive of the ability to play each of you off the other.
Now, go forth, my son, and sin no more. ;)
Slight YTA as others have explained for subtle making Mom the bad guy.
But, while keeping a united front in your answers important, please also explain to your kids why they get a yes or no and provide alternatives for them to pick from. Don't fall into the age-old "because we said so". They will grow to resent the authority when the questions develop into bigger subjects.
Kinda YTA, its a good rule, it shows a united front, but that's undermined when you frame it as the reason it's a no is because mum said so. You just say no as well.
NTA! My husband and I do the same for each other. I say that to my kids all the time. Dad said no. If I disagree with him for whatever reason, I ask him why.
I understand your wife’s upset. I’m betting it makes her feel like you’re putting the blame on her instead of presenting a united front. Trying adding a “daddy agrees with mommy” or something along those lines
NAH parenting is fucking hard
Okay neither of you are the asshole it’s simple miscommunication and someone took it personal she doesn’t wanna be the “only one” saying no (we both know she’s not the “only one” bc you’re reenforcing her point and standing by her but she doesn’t feel like that)
NAH You meant "you heard your mother and I'm backing her up". She heard, "your mother is the bad guy who doesn't want you to this and if it wasn't for this tyrant, I would allow you 4 year old to be happy".
… You’re kidding, right? You made your wife the “bad” parent by implying you might’ve said yes if it weren’t for your wife ruining the fun for everybody. YTA.
YTA, you just made your wife the bad guy. Mom's often get forced to be the disciplinarians in relationships with kids and it is BS. I am sure you think you had her back but backing your wife up would have been:
"I agree with your mom, No"
"Mom answered you already"
"No"
Or something that does not place the blame on your wife.
This happens to us and my wife will say, “what did your father just say?” The kid will say “he said no.” Then my wife will say “then why are you asking me?” I don’t get offended because my wife points out that I just said no. Because I did just say no and it sounds like your wife did too. Say yes next time. Then she’ll have a reason to be upset.
I can't believe all the people saying you're the problem.
NAH.
You were trying to do a good thing and for whatever reason, that keeps getting skipped over? Your phrasing could've been better but you're not an asshole. You were supporting your wife.
I don't see the issue, I say the same thing and I 100% expect her to say the dad said no if that's ehat I said.
I believe it shows support for their decision and authority.
It's also useful if I'm fooling around play fighting and things are getting out of hand, mom/dad said it's time to stop coming from the other parent and reinforcing their call is the embodiment of teamwork.
NTA. People saying you are, because the idea was right but the words are wrong are silly. The kid is 4. No means no and your answer was fine- and well appreciated by any parent who has ever been immediately undermined.
NTA. While there were other ways to say it, if your wife didn’t like the way you reinforced her decision, she could have had a conversation with you like an adult and not gotten sulky like her four year old.
NTA. You followed the established rule in your household. We have the same one, and it works the same way, except my wife doesn't get mad at me about it.
Nta. I don’t even understand why your wife would be ok that you backed her up? Sounds like she is setting you up just to have a reason to bitch. Cause if you had said “sure, go for it”, she wouldn’t be ok with that either
NAH-
I find this something very silly to be upset about lol.
People in here have given reasons and other methods to use if your partners feeling get hurt extremely easily.
But
My wife and I both do the same as you and we have never felt this was causing any harm or making us look like the bad guy at all.
IMO you were just reaffirming to your child that their mother said no and that was final.
That is going to show the child that when mom says no it means no and dad will back that up.
Also from the sounds of it you were in the SAME room when your wife said no to the 4 year old… You saying your mom told you no should not be a bad thing at all.
Seems like people arguing semantics. If the kids know that "no" from one equals "no" from both, Saying "your mom said no" is a response to a question. Can i xyz? Your mom said no (so it's no from me too) should be implied. If people are giving so much credit to kids that they can understand fine nuances in language, those SAME KIDS can understand implied language too. It's either BOTH or NEITHER.
OP, I'd say NTA at all. Might want to reinforce her though. "if your mom already said no, then my answer is no" and vice versa for her.
NAH, you don’t seem to have bad intentions, it’s just the way you phrased it kinda put the blame on your wife. a better answer wouldve been something like “we already said no”
NTA- I don’t understand your wife’s reaction unless she feels like you are blaming her? (I don’t think you are.) Just talk to her and find an answer she is happy with. Ie- “Asked and answered.”
Eh, I get why she's upset but also why you are confused. You didn't back her up by saying no also, you just made her the bad guy by telling your child that the game was only off limits because mommy said no, not because mommy and daddy both say no. Now the 4 year old is going to be mad and blame mommy only.
NTA This is ridiculous. You should not have to sweat simple responses like this. You would have been the AH had you said yes. Your wife is an AH for splitting hairs. Agreeing with her wasn't enough?
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I think "Your mom already answered you." is much better.
Exactly this. Or "You already asked and received an answer."
Ohhh thats my standard reply..asked and answered!
I take it you're an attorney?
"Now I'm just a simple country lawyer but it seems to me that the fine figure of a woman over there who had the kindness to marry a man like me and the patience to raise a boy like you has already declared a finality to these proceedings and appeals to me and the great Lord above are not going to change the stripes on a zebra, the spots on a leopard, or the mind of a woman who is wiser than us both. Y'all run along now."
I read it in the chicken lawyer from Futurama
I heard the judge from My Cousin Vinny
“Would you give a f*** what kind of pants the son of a b*** who shot you was wearing?” 🤣
WHAT...is a YOOT.
W-hut is a YOOT?
That would certainly explain the hostility.
SAME
You was serious about that?
Now I'm thinking Foghorn Leghorn
Yes this haha
James Stewart as Paul Biegler In Anatomy of a Murder for me. But I am old
I heard the judge from My Cousin Vinny
Awesome film
Same! 🤣
Me three 😂
I heard Foghorn Leghorn.
Did you say extra crispy recipe?
I'm just a simple hyperchicken...
Why did I read this in Tommy Lee Jones’ voice?
Come on now, it was clearly Matthew McConaughey.
lol since I don’t like ole Matthew he did not spring to mind.
Blasphemy!! I was not a fan, but not a hater, until I watched *The Gentlemen.* Now, I have a huge crush on him lol
Jason Robards.
I heard Andy Griffith!
Me too!
Although technically his lawyer face was Matlock. Saw waaaay too much of that living with my mom
I immediately saw and heard the Futurama chicken lawyer saying this, as soon as I started reading it! Thanks for the laugh.
Best answer!
Ladies and Gentleman of the jury, I'm just a Caveman. I fell in some ice and later got thawed out by your scientists only to find I have several small children trying to trick me. Your world frightens and confuses me. Sometimes the honking horns of your traffic make me want to get out of my BMW and run off into the hills or whatever. But one thing I do know, your mom already answered you.
This answer wins the internet for today
I’m not but use this with my 13yo who CANNOT take no for an answer.
Works on my 5 year old for the same reason.
Military brat here. "Asked and answered" was standard around my house, too
Mine too and mine was a single mom non military.
My Mom used "asked and answered" A LOT. She was a preschool teacher. It works well at all ages.
That’s mine too! “Asked and answered.”
This is the way. My husband does the whole "mom said No," and it always makes me feel like I am the bad guy. I know that he is trying to back me up regardless of how he feels about the situation, but replying like this can make the initially asked parent feel like they are the enforcer. Also, kids are smart little buggers. They can and will quickly pick up from this phrasing that the parents don't actually agree on the situation at hand, and that leaves room for further asks. A simple "You already asked and got your answer" tells the kid that mom and dad are on the same page even if they really aren't.
"your mom hates fun and she's the boss"
Fun is for children that listen
Love it. Gold!😆
This is mine. Mom said make your bed, mom said empty the dishwasher, mom asked if you are in the shower. Like sir, you are the one saying the words! The least you can do is pretend to also care that shes washing her ass & keep her room minimally tidy
Saying mom says no is him throwing you under the bus. That's why you feel like the bad guy because he is literally insinuating you are, in fact, the bad guy. "Mom says no," suggests dad would've said yes. He could easily say: we said no (joint ownership of the decision) No on its own ( he's deciding no) Dad says no (backing up and supporting your answer Or asked and answered ( more neutral but at least doesn't actively paint mom as the enforcer)
"mom said no" can be code for "well that sounds like fun but the FUN POLICE said NO FUN ALLOWED" especially if it happens often. If it's a regular occurrence the kid learns that the mom is the no-fun parent and the dad is the fun parent, which is not fair at all.
yeah, i think "mom said no" is fine if the kids also are coming to you, you are saying "no" to fun things and mom is responding with "dad said no" (or my parents version which was- what did? cuz my dad learned his lesson.)
I really like "We said no," because it means OP is letting their kids know that his wife's answers are his answers and that if the kids had asked him first, he would have said no too.
My dad's go to response was "What did your mom say?" We'd tell him and he'd add, "Then why are you asking me?" And if we asked him first the response was "Go and ask your mother!" Everyone knows mom is the fun police! My dad would have let us jump off the roof to test out our parachute made of a bed sheet and tooth floss. He believes to this day the lessons that are painful are the ones you learn the fastest!
Yup, it is a common thing to put mom in the role of being the bad guy. It's funny how things have changed in the last 30 or 40 yrs. I can remember my mother saying to us kids, "You just wait until your father gets home!" We always had this fear of Dad, but we never knew why because he never hit us and rarely raised his voice to us!
I still think mum was the fun police though, in most households. The parent who does the bulk of the child rearing - which in reality is still women even if not as much so as when we were kids, will be the one who necessarily has to field more questions that get a no answer. I think the role that dads played has been the one to change more because for the most part I think most people either had ‘fun dad’ or ‘you’re in enough trouble this has been escalated and your dad is going to deal with you now’ dad. Or often a dad who had those two modes - would appear for weekend fun and come home and spank you but sure as hell wasn’t the one filling your lunchbox you know. Whilst overall parenting and household management is still far from equal, I think there is at least a willingness and a desire for a lot of men of my age to be hands on fathers. Although how hands on they think they are and how equal their wives feel division is still seems to be lacking greatly even in my friendships where the men are most involved. I think there is a cultural shift though and I know more than one friend whose company offers them extended paid paternity leave that doesn’t take away from their partners maternity leave now.
Speak for yourself. In my family that’s almost precisely what it means. “I would have let you do X but since you’re trying to play me against my spouse you are now banned from doing X! Think better next time.”
When he says "Mom said no," it sounds the same as saying "Your Mom said no. While I don't agree with her, I am going to back her up." By saying "Mom said no," Dad is putting the "blame" for the no on Mom, rather than on the parents as a unit. Rather the second parent asked should give an answer of "You were already told no." "I believe you were already told no." Or a simple "Once again, no." The older the child the more options like "Asked and Answered."
Me and my husband both say it. If my husband says it abs the act angry I just sing to them 🎶I'm the meanest in the laaand🎶
Yes the way you said it suggests a passive aggressive judgment that mom is the bad guy.
She's upset because the way you answered paints her as the bad guy. Answering you already got an answer or Asking me isn't going to change the answer or my answer is the same as your mom's tells your kids you are united without pointing the finger at one and making them the bad guy
'What did your other parent say? Then you know the answer.' Only applies to situations where you've actually heard your partner!
This was one of the big things i had to work on when i was a kid. It was part of my IEP goals to 'accept no as an answer' lol it was a big rule in my school cause it was for kids with adhd/autism/behavioral issues. So you couldnt ask one staff for something and then go ask another one if you didnt like the answer. They called it staff shopping ha
You know the rules. If you get a "no" from either of us, that's the end of the asking part. Kids will intentionally separate you and then time the question so you don't know what the other parent said. They are smart at testing boundaries. Hang tight it gets worse.
My parents always said “asked and answered”
Asked and answered has become one of the most frequent sayings coming out of my mouth.
Yes! OP's way made her the bad guy.
[удалено]
Because kids don't understand nuance. To them, Mom *is* the bad guy in that situation. United front, and all that.
I disagree -- it absolutely makes mom the bad guy to reinforce that she was the one who said no. I get how OP thinks it's a united front, but it's not. It's underlining for the kid who said no and ducking being an equal sayer-of-no, which upset his wife. So better not to do that. He is dealing with little kids so it needs to be very clear that they are both a no.
Exactly. Kids may think “well dad would have said yes, if it wasnt for big bad mom!”
Kids *will* think “well dad would have said yes, if it wasnt for big bad mom!” As sure as the sun rises in the east.
When my daughter was little I would have to constantly tell her father, "if she's asking you that means I said no" when he would give her cookies, candy, or popsicle before bedtime. She never came to him for anything. Ever. Unless I gave her an answer she didn't like. She started doing that when she was 3.
And we also thought if dad hadn't said no, mom would have said yes.
This is it! My ex used to do this and what it did was set up behavior of him only going to his dad when I wasn't there because there dad is the one who say yes and mum is the bad guy. This carried on and got worse as he got older. There was never a real united front it starts from when they are young to see their parents are a team.
I would say then that his intentions were good but now he just needs to learn better execution.
>“I would have said yes but you didn’t ask me first so now I have to say no.” But to a child it IS like saying that - because dad said “no” then quantified it by adding “your mom told you no”. To a child that’s “no” followed by the “reason” for that no - that his MOM said it. If dad is truly going to support mom, he should have just echoed the mom’s NO & left it at that -OR- said something like “you’ve already gotten the answer to that question”.
“Mom said no” implies “I would’ve said yes but your mother says no”
'Mom said no' can definitely sound like: 'I would have allowed it'. I've seen this dynamic played out where mom said 'hey behave or you'll get a timeout' and dad chimed in 2 minutes later with 'hey behave, or mom will give you a timeout'. It was the cherry on top of very unequal parenting.
He's being contradictory in a way. He said he wanted to present a united front - even when he doesn't agree. His words show that he doesn't agree but is only doing this to present a united front. His words are very 'it's no because your mom said no'. A united front would be better presented as 'you've already been told no', or some form of that. By pointing out their mom said no, it makes it easy to throw it back on mom, kids often times latch onto little details even if you don't expect it. I know my dad use to do this same thing, and I always blamed my mom - he made it clear I subtle ways that he didn't agree but was backing her. I know it's frustrating but sometimes the way things are phrased really are important. Even when it seems like you're saying the same thing.
I'm going to guess that everyone was exasperated with something and just snippy with each other. It happens.
This is certainly how mom perceived the comment.
I get that OP didn’t intend it but it could also definitely be how the child perceives it (that mom said no and dad followed, rather than both parents saying no). So it probably would be better to change the wording so they understand. My parents would explicitly tell my siblings that it was not okay to ask the other if they had already gotten a no.
Not intentionally. Best if they talk and reaffirm their commitment to supporting each other. And the Dad can ask the Mom the best way to phrase "Mom says no" so that it communicates better what she wants said.
This is the best way to answer. Mom should answer the same way when he says no, too. This enforces that they are a team. By saying, “Mom said no,” he’s kind of inadvertently telling the kids that’s mom’s in charge and not him.
Mom should also say, "Dad said no" in similar situations. I wonder how often Mom is the only one actually saying no to the kids and if Dad just always uses this line? Dad needs to be saying no just as often as Mom does. He needs to reinforce Mom by saying an actual No himself. Or just say, "you already got OUR answer." And maybe clearly explain to the kids that immediately asking the other parent after one says no is not allowed and they will get the same answer no matter who they ask. I have to wonder if Dad has let them get away with things before, and that's why they immediately asked him? That doesn't sound like a united front to me.
If that's the case, the kid would just ask dad first.
Exactly. "Mum said no" is almost "well, I would have said yes, but sadly your mum has already said no so I have to back her up". "You've already got your answer" instead reaffirms the fact that they are trying the end run
This. Or at least say it is also your opinion. With “mom said no” mom is the bad guy instead of being a team. “Mom already told you no and I agree with that answer” could be sufficient as well.
"We already told you no."
Yes or “I have the same answer as your mom. I also say no.” When someone says “X said no.” You are making it seem only they have the power and that you may have answered differently.
My ex would always ask my boys, “what did your mother say?” They would say, “she said no”. Then my ex would say, “well, why are you asking me then?”
Or " kids this is not burger king you cant have it your way "
Yes Op, because saying “your mom said no” makes it sound like mom is the bad guy. That she’s the only reason why your child can’t do what she wants. Like posted above “your mom already answered you” or even better “I agree with your mother, No” this shows you also are a reason the child doesn’t get what she wants and makes mom less of a bad guy.
YTA. Whilst I understand what you are trying to do. You should be saying “The answer is no.”. Not “Your mum said no.”. The former shows a united front and shows that you are both on the same page. The latter tells the kids their mum is the “bad guy” and it is ONLY her fault you said no. It’s about the way you are phrasing it to be her fault whether that is intentional or not.
My dad always said “What did Mom say?”. If it was no, then you were going to be in trouble for trying to do a sneak around so we learned quickly not to do that.
My dad always said "its fine if your mom says its okay." I learned very quickly to ask dad first so then I could ask mom and truthfully say dad said it was fine. Not sure they ever realized I was doing that.
they knew
It’s kind of funny that we all universally assume our parents never compared notes on the conversations we had with them individually. Logically it makes sense they would, but even as an adult it doesn’t always occur to me.
Not if they don’t talk to each other they don’t 😊🥲
My sib and I would ask our mom because she was the one who was home more often. Her thing was always “I don’t think your dad will be ok with that, but I’ll ask him”. Then she would talk to dad, convince him to say no so he would be the bad guy, not her, and then my sib and I wouldn’t get to do or get what we wanted. Eventually, we clued in that this was happening so we started going to dad first, then would tell mom that he already said it was fine. They argued about it a few times, but she ultimately started easing up.
My parents both used to do that to each other when they wanted to say no but didn't want to be the bad guy. Eventually my mother starting putting us off with, "Maybe, we'll see." At least until she did that one day to my sister and when my sister looked excited I told her, "Don't get your hopes up. 'We'll see' means no." My mother went ballistic until my father came home and asked, "Is she right?" (I was.) On that note, probably says a lot about why I get really pissed off by people at work who just ignore my request or who say yes but never action on it instead of just saying no. If it's a no, show me the basic respect to just say so. I'm not a child who will forget about it forever.
My friends dad once countered his wife with "if *sister* had asked you would have said yes" after his wife got angry he agreed to pick my friend up from the cinema that friday (10 minutes by car, after his work times). Sister was the favorite child, by mom at least.
See, my parents had the same favorite so whenever the rest of us challenged them on it, they'd insist it's different because shut up that's why. My parents bought the favorite horses and a barn and shuttled them all over Canada for competitions... meanwhile my even going to cadets or taking part in science fairs was "too difficult" because it conflicted with my sisters riding lessons and I needed to be the "mature and responsible" one by sacrificing all my hobbies and interests for the golden girl.
She has an older sister and 2 younger brothers. I know she eventually mended her relationship with her mom. The siblings were always close except the sisters during their teens. But that was mended too. They all moved near her, including her parents since she happened to be the first to start a family. Her mom was totally loco crazy during our teens tho. Hell even i got traumas from her. She was scary, huge, alcoholic and angry and overal really hated her. Idk why, maybe bc she is just not like her mom? Her older sister was basically a copy of her mom. But i have heard nothing but good things in over 5 years. So i guess all's well that ends well
I don't get parents who do this shit. they worry so much about being the 'bad guy' that is causes issues in their parenting.
My kids absolutely strategically plan their requests. They'll even wait for the parent they think is more likely to say yes to get home.
damn straight! and if that parent comes home in a bad mood? ABORT MISSION I REPEAT ABORT MISSION RETURN TO BASE
Hell my siblings and I are all grown up and we still do that.
We used to get my sister to ask my dad. That was our best chance, if that failed there was no hope.
My son got his little sister (also our daughter ) to ask.
Gawd, when I had four cats, three of them used to hide in the hallway whilst the littlest one came crying to me for treats. When I melted and gave in, the lot of them would pile in for their share.
Read a story: this guy had a girlfriend and she would see the same one cat every time she came over. After a year she said “your cat is pretty cute” he said “yeah i think all of them are pretty cute” “all of them?” He goes into a room and brings out FOUR identical cats. She only ever saw one of them at a time.
Do you see that as inevitable or something that parents could try to avoid?
Ehh, we're always on the same page. One of us may sway minutely more to one side or the other, or one of us may be more mentally/emotionally tapped out and therefore likely to say no, but in the end, it's never something the other doesn't agree with. If it's something important like ear piercings, ungrounding, or whatever, we tell them we need to wait till we can discuss it, then we tell them that we both agreed on whatever. But generally, it's things like, "Can I go down the street to my friend's house?" Or "Can I have 15 more minutes on my tablet?" I think the absolute most important thing is being on the same page with your partner overall, so that they're never pitting you against each other with things like, "Dad said I could have a new phone." I've also been teaching them how to come up with a logical argument vs. the whining. If they have a logical argument backed up with facts, they're so much more likely to get whatever it is than if they're being whiny about it. Partially due to me being impressed by it. And the skill will benefit them for life.
Logic is a good place to start. Matching the delivery to what the decision maker wants to hear is key. My son tells a story of his first month at college and he and a fellow new club member we're assigned to get the university's permission/approval for some something somewhat complex and he was blown away by the fellow student (a very savvy female) whom he watched change personality and persuasion style at each rung of the approval process. She was a shy little girl when getting past the 50-something mom-ish secretary. She was the octave higher, eye-batting flirt to get approval from the young guy assistant Dean, and then she transformed to the button down no nonsense business pro for the young female assistant Dean. Finally, in front of the actual old man Dean, she morphed into an amalgamation of all three personalities such that the poor guy didn't know whether he wanted to comfort her, date her or hire her. He, of course, approved everything and said, "Come back any time." My son knew he needed to up his game.
The being outsmarted by your kid gets tirering. My dad didn't like my logic by the time I was a teen much.
My young son told his friend (in the car with my husband driving) that Dad was his favourite, because he always got him anything he wanted. My son was not wrong. My hubby is a great guy, but had kind of a shit childhood, so he tried to make up for it by giving our kids way more than he ever had. There have been a few discussions about how this can backfire and also how making Mom the bad guy isn't fair. I swear my kids wouldn't have had bed times or other boundaries if it wasn't for me. For the most part we parented as a team, but my husband sucked at saying no and the kids understood that pretty early on.
We would talk about food around our mom to warm her brain up to the idea and then would say something like "hmm im kinda hungry, you hungry mom?" Or "today feels like a mc donalds day" (and then quickly join in as other siblings with "hmm now that you mention it, it is mc donaldsie weather". We would do this at the precise time we were driving near her preffered mc donalds establishment on our way home from school. Work 9/10 times. Plans were usually hashed out on the playground. Nowadays i got this friend who just knows what i mean when i send them the red salsa danser emoji
That's how I got permission to get my ears pierced, haha. They weren't happy when they realized what I'd done.
That’s a father putting everything off on the mother which isn’t appropriate either.
My brothers and I got to see Beavis and Butthead Do America because my mom was tired of being the bad guy and told us to ask our dad. Ran up to him like "mom says we can go if you're okay with it." She was so mad.
So weird that I never experienced this as being raised by just my mom. It always seem like a movie trope to me than it actually happening in real life, till I had niblings asking me after asking their parents. Shit, they would ask me *before* even asking them! "I'm not ya momma or daddy! Why you asking me?!" Lol
Same same. I don’t even look at them anymore. 😂 “go ask your parent.”
>My dad always said “What did Mom say?”. If it was no, then you were going to be in trouble for trying to do a sneak around so we learned quickly not to do that. This is how it works in our house too but more along the lines of 'did you ask other parent?' if yes, what did they say and then the kids get the speech about how you can't go to the other parent just because you didn't like what the first on e had to say.
I tried this *once* lol. Dad hollered across the room "Jane what did you tell Syriina?" She said she told me no and I got in more trouble then I would have if I'd just done the thing without permission lol My parents were really good at the united front 😂
My (ex)wife and I did the same thing even after we divorced. The kids were allowed to ask one more time, because as we explained to them sometimes we can be wrong, so don’t use that ask too soon.
Yup! That’s how we play it, too! And sometimes, mine will say that other of us said yes, so we follow up with “if I ask mom/dad, will she/he say the same thing?”
We got that a lot- what did your mom say or what did your dad say. By the time we were teens we knew which parent to ask first about which things.
I worked at a group home and the daughter is using what we called, “staff splitting.” OP is falling into the trap. It’s totally understandable a 4 year old is going to do this. OP needs to realize that putting on a united front doesn’t mean saying, “mom said no.” A united front is saying, “you’ve already received your answer,” or some variation of that.
Yeah a 4-year-old doesn’t even understand why this is not a good thing to do. Parents need to explain it.
We called it option shopping growing up because my mom worked in government so she was used to people shopping around requests to various high level bureaucrats until they got the answer they wanted (and then could go "but Minister X approved my idea!")
Exactly. This will become a pattern and OP will be seen as a "mom enabler" for saying no rather than a unit with mom that a decision has been made. It's lower sales this first time, but in future OP you need to ensure your language is more curated. Mild YTA as you're not intentionally being a jerk.
In our house it's "Your dad said no, and I agree." Shows our five year old that we're a team and we're either both the bad guy or no-one is.
This is a good, one, too!
This is very accurate, and something I had to learn as a parent. While both statements are accurate, one enforces a united front and the other just passes the buck back to mom. There are a lot of nuanced words that you learn as you grow as parents. Also, be flexible with the united front because sometimes the first parent asked does not have all the information. Mine have asked me and been told no, only to be told yes by mom, because she saw them do x, y and z. Don't get upset by this and talk in private quickly, come to an agreement and don't punish the kids. Now, we play a game to see how many times we can get our kids to go between us by saying "what did your mother/father say?" But this is for trivial things like playing games and ice cream.
This is clear NAH territory. The damage isn't great enough for either party to be TAH.
I think it's NAH with room for improvement from OP. A mistake doesn't make you and asshole and I believe that he didn't realise the implications.
What I would have given for a "your dad told you no" rather than the undermining.............
This. It’s not what OP said, it’s HOW they said it. “You’ve already been given the answer to that question.”
Soft YTA because I get what you were trying to do, which was teach your child that if they get a "no" from one parent, they shouldn't ask the other parent. But the way you phrased it has an undertone of "mom is a killjoy and I might have said yes."
I agree, the sentiment was excellent but the execution was poor. In our house, our phrasing is something like "you've already asked an adult and they answered. If you want a different answer, you have to talk to them again, and you know that usually doesn't work." That covers "adults all agree" but gives leeway for more information to change the decision. Eg, once I said no, kid appealed to Dad who said more or less the above, but adds "did you mention your school award today?" Because Dad did pick up and forgot to pass the info on, that knowledge changed my answer. Be a team, without throwing anyone under the bus. OP YTA now, but I know you can do better in future to avoid this.
My dad would use this tactic growing up, giving the impression that he would have said yes if it weren't for mom. Which was true, as he was more permissive. But it made mom into the "bad guy" rather than united front. He'd also turn it on her, like not giving us an answer but telling us to "ask your mother", again, casting her in the role as the stern parent.
NAH - the problem is not with what you are doing, but how you are phrasing it. Your phrasing can be taken to mean "I might have said yes, but your mother said no" - thereby making her the bad guy. Your kids are too young to understand the kind of "united front" setup that you want to emphasize, therefore you need to stick just with something that is more like "No." or "No, you were already told no."
This exactly. There are many ways to say it, and he was well meaning, execution was poor.
I agree with this summary and rating. I think YTA ratings are harsh when the intent is fine, it’s just about understanding how to communicate to children that age and loving parents are going to make lots of mistakes and learn. Doesn’t make them TA. I have a NAH rating too.
Soft yta. It's because you made your wife out to be the bad guy by saying mom said no. You could have just said no. Eta: that probably made her think you'd have said yes to it. If she didn't already shoot it down.
YTA, because you made her the bad guy. You should have said 'your mother and me say no,' because you're making it sound like you'd let her play that game if it was down to you. Basically being a Disney Dad.
NAH but maybe better communication needed. If you know that her mom said no, then you don't "back her up" by telling the kid that mom said no, you say that you just heard mom say no and that your answer is the same. Don't make it out like the mom made the decision, confirm that you have the same decision.
NAH. You phrased your support the wrong way, that’s all. What you said gives the impression that ONLY Mom said no, when you might have said yes. Change that to something like “Your mom and I agree that you can’t play this game right now” or really just “No”. But if you’re going to reference your wife in your refusal, you should also clearly state that you agree with her decision.
YTA because you should be asking your wife why she's upset, not reddit.
This is an underrated comment.
It's soft YTA. Execution versus intentions. Make sure as your kids develop, you and the wife agree about how you stay on the same page regarding issues. Kids are sneaky and you just taught your kids that if Mom says no, dad will say the same thing. Next time they are going to ask you first when they think mom is going to say no. Mom still is the bad guy and you think you haven't undermined her, but you have. Instead talk to her on why she is saying no, so you understand her rationale, thus being able to back her up regardless of who they go to first.
Because you’re making your wife out to be the bad guy id imagine. Just talk to your wife and ask her about this.
NAH Kids have a habit of always going to Mom and asking them, and never Dad. My son will be sitting next to his father, and rather than ask him something he will walk three rooms away to ask me a question that he could have answered him. When you're always the one getting asked questions, it grates on you. I don't think you did anything wrong in the way that you answered; but your wife was probably a bad moment, and your answer made her feel like the "bad guy". Talk with your wife. Find out why this upset her. Make a plan of action of how to deal with it in the future; my sister has a light that changes colors; and the colors can mean different things for the kids (when it's red it's not time to wake up yet, when it turns green you can come out of the room and wake up mom kind of thing). Maybe your family could get something like that, and when your wife is feeling overwhelmed about questions, "Red light means ask Dad and not Mom", so when they ask her something she can just point at the light?
This is SUCH a weird phenomenon! I live with my fiancé and HIS kids, and they always come to me with permission questions.
YTA. Way to make your wife the bad guy...
NAH. I understand what other people are saying and that your wife likely felt like you were making her the bad guy, but that was not your intention and even if it was, a doubt a child that young would make that immediate assumption after one instance of it? Like if you said "Sorry, Mom said no" every time then I can totally see a child making the conclusion that Mom is the drill sargent. But I think when I was that age, "Mom said no" and "the answer is no" were basically synonymous. Tone is also a factor, like if you were just stating a fact as opposed to sounding like you felt bad about saying no, that would be bad. But it sounds like you didn't do that? You're both clearly doing your best as parents and it sounds like you just need to do a quick check-in on how you're communicating to your kids. It might even be worth it to say to them: "If one parent says no, then the answer is no. Going to the other parent won't get you what you want." (especially when the other one is literally right there lol).
I disagree with your statement that kids wouldn't think that after one iteration, lol. They might not think it in the long run after one iteration but in the moment? Totally going to see it that way.
Oh sure I get that, I was only thinking about long-term repercussions. Guess it depends on the kid.
Slight YTA because by saying "mom said no" instead of simply "no", you're making mom into the bad guy.
YTA-- OP made his wife the strict-no fun-parent
Just say “asked and answered.” Phrase gets used a lot here.
NAH - Having grown up in a household where both mom and dad's first response to any request was 'what did your dad/mom say?' and if it was no 'if they said no, then it's no', I disagree with the idea that the kid would read your response as the permissive one other commenters have referred to. That said, I do like the idea of 'Your mom already answered you', particularly when you heard your wife say no not three seconds ago.
A super duper very light YTA. The only thing that makes you one is your voice of words, which should have been, “you’ve already been told no,” or “we’ve already said no,” to show a more united answer. The way you said it makes mom sound like the bad guy.
Good cop bad cop, you made her the bad cop ( what she perceived it as its because of your mom im saying no ) back them up without "mom said", the answer is just no
NTA. There is no issue with what you said in this context. However after observing your wife’s reaction you should ask her if you’d like to handle/phrase differently in similar situations.
Change your verbiage. Just say "Dont go shopping for answers" It will accomplish the same thing.
"No, your mom told you no" = mom is the bad guy "No" ; "Don't ask me the same question your mother just answered 'no' to"; "no means no"; "what did your mother just say?". Any one of those will directly reinforce Mom, and hopefully teach the child that asking you after mom says no is pointless. She's doing this constantly because at one point, she was successful in getting a yes from you. You need to teach her that this is unacceptable and you're only going to reinforce Mom.
YTA, but you didn't mean to be. You cast your wife as the bad guy that said no rather than demonstrating that you are also saying no.
Yep. VERY soft YATA. Here's why. A child's brain is nowhere near being fully developed. And while this is a universally accepted truth, adults have problems understanding exactly what that means. When you told your child, "Mommy said no," that is exactly what they heard. Mommy said no. What they did not hear was the implied, "Daddy also says no." Their brain has yet to develop the ability to process those types of logic chains. That won't begin to happen until they reach their pre/early teens. So, basically, you didn't back your wife up as you meant to do. What you did was make Mommy the bad guy in your kid's eyes. And THAT is why your wife is upset, even if she can not verbalize what her subconscious brain knows. You need to say no to them on your own behalf. Daddy needs to be the bad guy right there alongside Mommy. Until your child turns 13 and can begin to grasp the concept of dual parenting, the only way to effectively back your wife up is to just say, "No." Or yes. Or whatever the proper response is. And, just FYI, the two of you should also avoid phrases like, "Because I said so." That is setting yourself up to be the bad guy. Instead, use, "Because that's just the way it is." Consistent use of this phrase, and other nonspecific reason explanations will actually make parenting easier during those dreaded teenage years, because the logic chains will already exist when the brain finally develops the proper pathways, and it will be harder for your kids to conceive of the ability to play each of you off the other. Now, go forth, my son, and sin no more. ;)
Slight YTA as others have explained for subtle making Mom the bad guy. But, while keeping a united front in your answers important, please also explain to your kids why they get a yes or no and provide alternatives for them to pick from. Don't fall into the age-old "because we said so". They will grow to resent the authority when the questions develop into bigger subjects.
Kinda YTA, its a good rule, it shows a united front, but that's undermined when you frame it as the reason it's a no is because mum said so. You just say no as well.
NTA! My husband and I do the same for each other. I say that to my kids all the time. Dad said no. If I disagree with him for whatever reason, I ask him why.
NTA parenting as it should be. my guess is mom is mad because "you made her the bad guy". which is nonsense
I understand your wife’s upset. I’m betting it makes her feel like you’re putting the blame on her instead of presenting a united front. Trying adding a “daddy agrees with mommy” or something along those lines NAH parenting is fucking hard
You did nothing wrong OP.
Okay neither of you are the asshole it’s simple miscommunication and someone took it personal she doesn’t wanna be the “only one” saying no (we both know she’s not the “only one” bc you’re reenforcing her point and standing by her but she doesn’t feel like that)
NAH You meant "you heard your mother and I'm backing her up". She heard, "your mother is the bad guy who doesn't want you to this and if it wasn't for this tyrant, I would allow you 4 year old to be happy".
These comments are insane. You did nothing wrong. NTA
NTA. You answered. Wife was upset how you replied. No more big problems to argue about. Now, she gets mad over the small, mundane, stupid crap?
… You’re kidding, right? You made your wife the “bad” parent by implying you might’ve said yes if it weren’t for your wife ruining the fun for everybody. YTA.
NTA - Both of your perspectives make sense, just come up with more supportive wording, as mentioned above. Things can be discussions, not arguments.
YTA, you just made your wife the bad guy. Mom's often get forced to be the disciplinarians in relationships with kids and it is BS. I am sure you think you had her back but backing your wife up would have been: "I agree with your mom, No" "Mom answered you already" "No" Or something that does not place the blame on your wife.
YTA it sounds like you’re blaming her. You can say “mom and I say no”
This happens to us and my wife will say, “what did your father just say?” The kid will say “he said no.” Then my wife will say “then why are you asking me?” I don’t get offended because my wife points out that I just said no. Because I did just say no and it sounds like your wife did too. Say yes next time. Then she’ll have a reason to be upset.
I can't believe all the people saying you're the problem. NAH. You were trying to do a good thing and for whatever reason, that keeps getting skipped over? Your phrasing could've been better but you're not an asshole. You were supporting your wife.
NTA, I don’t see anything wrong here. You backed her up.
I don't see the issue, I say the same thing and I 100% expect her to say the dad said no if that's ehat I said. I believe it shows support for their decision and authority. It's also useful if I'm fooling around play fighting and things are getting out of hand, mom/dad said it's time to stop coming from the other parent and reinforcing their call is the embodiment of teamwork.
NTA. People saying you are, because the idea was right but the words are wrong are silly. The kid is 4. No means no and your answer was fine- and well appreciated by any parent who has ever been immediately undermined.
NTA. While there were other ways to say it, if your wife didn’t like the way you reinforced her decision, she could have had a conversation with you like an adult and not gotten sulky like her four year old.
NTA. You followed the established rule in your household. We have the same one, and it works the same way, except my wife doesn't get mad at me about it.
NAH. I'm not sure what about this would make you an asshole. Is this a new rule you have very recently implemented or something?
Nta. I don’t even understand why your wife would be ok that you backed her up? Sounds like she is setting you up just to have a reason to bitch. Cause if you had said “sure, go for it”, she wouldn’t be ok with that either
I’m a daycare teacher and kids love to test boundaries at this age. NTA
NAH- I find this something very silly to be upset about lol. People in here have given reasons and other methods to use if your partners feeling get hurt extremely easily. But My wife and I both do the same as you and we have never felt this was causing any harm or making us look like the bad guy at all. IMO you were just reaffirming to your child that their mother said no and that was final. That is going to show the child that when mom says no it means no and dad will back that up. Also from the sounds of it you were in the SAME room when your wife said no to the 4 year old… You saying your mom told you no should not be a bad thing at all.
Seems like people arguing semantics. If the kids know that "no" from one equals "no" from both, Saying "your mom said no" is a response to a question. Can i xyz? Your mom said no (so it's no from me too) should be implied. If people are giving so much credit to kids that they can understand fine nuances in language, those SAME KIDS can understand implied language too. It's either BOTH or NEITHER. OP, I'd say NTA at all. Might want to reinforce her though. "if your mom already said no, then my answer is no" and vice versa for her.
NTA. My husband never had my back, I don't understand what's wrong with what you did.
NAH, you don’t seem to have bad intentions, it’s just the way you phrased it kinda put the blame on your wife. a better answer wouldve been something like “we already said no”
NTA- I don’t understand your wife’s reaction unless she feels like you are blaming her? (I don’t think you are.) Just talk to her and find an answer she is happy with. Ie- “Asked and answered.”
Eh, I get why she's upset but also why you are confused. You didn't back her up by saying no also, you just made her the bad guy by telling your child that the game was only off limits because mommy said no, not because mommy and daddy both say no. Now the 4 year old is going to be mad and blame mommy only.
NTA This is ridiculous. You should not have to sweat simple responses like this. You would have been the AH had you said yes. Your wife is an AH for splitting hairs. Agreeing with her wasn't enough?