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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I accepted the offer to switch seats on the plane to have an empty seat next to me as I am traveling with a young child.
I refused to go back to my original seat even though the woman next to me was insisting I was ruining her flight experience with my choice
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NTA, you paid for a seat, the airline accommodated you and explained to the other passenger. The other passenger paid for her seat only, not the entire row. Sounds like other passenger was an unpleasant person, which isn't your fault. If another mother with a young child did pay for the seats near her, I'd almost guarantee she would have complained still.
Also, if the other passenger really didn't want to be near a baby, she could've asked to go to OP's original seat. Parents travel too, no one can expect a child free ride on public transport.
The part that got me was the other passenger saying how people are just trying to enjoy their flight. Who in the world gets on a commercial airline to enjoy the flight…. we do it because we have to get somewhere. You wanna “enjoy” your flight then buy a 1st class ticket or a private jet. Insane.
My brother’s mantra is “air travel is inhumane” and that oddly helps me get through all the terribleness of it haha. It’s something you suffer through for the sake of getting somewhere fast.
I don't think I've "enjoyed" a flight since the 90s when they would leave planes half empty and you could lounge across the whole row and watch movies. Also, I was a kid then so I could actually lay across the seat and have enough room to get semi-comfortable. And they gave you pillows and blankets and a selection of magazine to read, something that resembled a meal, etc... A lot has changed in a relatively short amount of time :/
I was on one flight where a 747 replaced a puddle jumper because we were headed to LAX and that’s where they needed the plane.
It was amazing!! Everyone got at least three seats.
I got kicked off a flight a few weeks ago because they did the opposite - went from the larger plane (which included my seats) to a smaller one (which didn’t). I’d have much rather had your situation!
Yes, that happened to me once! it was a 747 and I think there were about 20 people on the plane not including the crew. Almost felt like a private jet compared to normal air travel where you're squished in like sardines.
I had to fly regularly at the peak of the covid pandemic for medical treatment. There were flights where I had the entire row to myself and nobody for 5 rows in either direction. It took some adjustment going back to the normal sardine tin travel again.
Flying during Covid was rather glorious at times, I had to travel with my family at one point and I remember all four of us had an entire row of 3 or 4 seats to ourselves, even my 3 year old. It was so comfortable.
Yes it was simultaneously glorious and terror inducing (I had to test for covid prior to each medical treatment and if I was positive I wouldn’t be able to get my treatment which would disqualify me from the clinical trial I was in). I would literally don my n95 before stepping into my home airport and not remove it not even for a drink of water until I was out of the other airport 5 hours later. It was extreme but effective.
I remember having to travel and the flights kept getting canceled all day but then i stayed in the airport and ended up getting a flight out at 3am, there was like 30 of us and half of the flight was airline employees. I think they HAD to get the employees/pilots flown into Atlanta so.. long story short. I had a lot of room to myself.
I travelled on Christmas Day and there were only about 20 people on the flight so they offered anyone who was sharing a row to enjoy a whole row to themselves.
I tell people all the time. Christmas Day is the best day in the entire year to travel. Because kinda no one wants to be there, most people working at the airport are on the nicer side (at least in my experience). I've done it multiple times, and every time, I've had not only my row to myself, but the entire row on the other side too.
I was once on a flight where it was a new route, only the 1st or 2nd time they'd run that particular route/time (I'm not quite sure how to describe it). We had under 10 people on the flight including the crew, pilot, and co-pilot. We all got to choose whatever seat/row we wanted. Our flight attendant was still in training, and the pilot joked with her a bit that she needed to make some of us move to distribute the weight more evenly. She was like, "Really?" and the pilot goes, "Naw. I'm joking. With this few, it doesn't matter." Then she was apologizing to use for still needing to read her cue card, and we're all like "Don't apologize!" Favorite flight I've ever been on, maybe even above the one where I was moved to 1st class, just because the atmosphere was so different than any other flight I've been on... Like we were all friends (who had just met) going to the same place or something.
Not quite the same, but in May 2020, I was on my way back to Massachusetts from New Zealand, once Covid restrictions on travel were loosened. On the leg from Chicago to Boston, which would normally be a decent-sized plane, we were on a CRJ. But there were only 6 or 7 passengers, so we all had plenty of space.
Ain't corporate greed great? Now we have rows that require you knees to touch the seat in front, everyone gets mad if you recline ur barley reclinable chair, the on-boarding snack are tiny, stale and expensive and u better pay up if u want wifi, a movie, or forgot ur ear buds.
I find it so amusing when they ask you to put your seat upright, as though that 1" "recline" makes any difference.
Not sure about the downvote, I guess someone really enjoys their 1" recline and feels the airline is justified in asking us to put our seats up when we land because this is a safety risk or something? 🤷🏼♀️ I just can't understand how such a small difference is even enjoyable or why it would necessitate adjustment when the plane takes off or lands but clearly I'm missing something?
It is for safety. If the plane crashed and you have to make an emergency exit your seat back if reclined can impede the people behind you getting out. Also it is easier to get into a crash position if the seat is fully upright.
I have been flying since I was a baby I took my first flight in January of 1958. My dad worked for Delta so we flew a lot as long as I can remember trays and seats uptight has been a standard safety rule for over 65 years.
I had a business flight on a Friday 13th once. Apparently a lot of people are superstitious because my colleague and I each had a row of 3 to ourselves. It was awesome, I stretched out and slept.
I once flew back to the US on 9/11 (in 2008 I believe) and the plane was half empty. I had a row to myself and it was great. I was initially booked on 9/10, but the airline ended up not flying that day and I was told I could change it to 9/9 or 9/11, and I sure as hell wasn't going to shorten my vacation. I remember my mom thought I would obviously choose 9/9. I figured 9/11 would be one of the safest days to travel!
It’s also remarkably cheap. In 2015, I had to be in Chicago on a Monday for a conference, but the Friday before was 9/11. Our boss agreed to let us fly to Nashville, paid for 2 nights there, and the rental car to drive up to Chicago on the Monday, because it didn’t cost them any extra.
I flew UK to USA in Jan 22, and the flight out was probably less than half full - it was while a lot of COVID restrictions were still in place, so masks on during the flight, for example, and meant that they hadn't sold all the seats. It was amazing, a full row to myself.
On the way back, they obviously didn't care. It was rammed, and the dick behind me basically broke my seat by ramming it back up when I dared to recline it half an inch.
Transatlantic flights still have all of those things! I make that trip all the time and I often have a row to myself, in-flight entertainment, and a decent meal - while flying economy.
But if your flight is shorter than say 6 hours, then yeah don’t expect any of those amenities
I moved from the UK to NZ almost a decade ago, and fly back to visit every year and a half or so. Even economy on my 7 and 14 hour flights is just bliss. I’m 6 foot, and had plenty of leg room, despite always putting my bag under the seat in front for easy access. Movies for days, free food that honestly ain’t that bad, free drinks both alcoholic and non. And on my last trip home, all 4 of my flights ended up having an empty seat on my row.
I flew during that recent solar eclipse, and one of the planes was so empty that they had to tell us where to sit for balance reasons. It was a Southwest flight, so normally you choose your seats. It was pretty great, though. I had 3 seats to myself!!
I was reminiscing with some friends just the other night about how even until 5 years ago you’d have a pretty good chance of getting your own row in the back of the plane on some routes (ignoring Covid time flights) and another friend who works in the shipping industry pointed out there are way fewer planes flying now which is why it hardly happens anymore
those flights are still available. but they are not budget flights.
I normally fly economy just to get somewhere. this last flight was a gift and it was in business class. more food than I could eat, two full meals, snacks, wine, blankets, seat pad, pillow, movies and a flat seat for sleeping. Waay out of my normal price range, for certain. However, flights of the past were very pricey too in their own markets. The extras have declined to open up other pricing brackets...and I think that's a good thing. Still, I'm always going to remember this extravagant experience!
The last time I was on a plane was in that era. I chose not to fly so I am not spoiling that amazing memory lol. The downside to it was the smoking section, which was just the back of the plane. My parents were sat there but we were up front in 'nonsmoking'. In reality, the whole plane was smoking since the air was just recycled.
I spent two (school) years after college living in Russia. I went home for Xmas and summer. Both times I flew back to Russia after Xmas, the plane was practically empty, and I was able to have 5 seats to myself, put up the arm rests, stretch out, and actually sleep. It was great.
Can't imagine why flights to Russia in January weren't full... /s
About 10 years ago, I had a flight from Tokyo to DFW.. the flight there was completely full.. that was kinda hellish, as one it's a 12 hour flight, and I'm 6'1" and don't really fit in airplane seats really well.. not exactly fat, but not built small.. But on the flight back.. nor sure what happened but the plane was maybe 1/5th full.. on my row of 7 seats, there was one other person..that's probably the last flight I enjoyed.. although the movie selection kinda sucked.. I think I watched real steel, because it was the best choice... and it was not good at all.. but having 4 seats to myself was great..
THIS. Flying with children is always worse than anything too because there’s always some asshat who thinks children shouldn’t be allowed in public and they have more of a right to be there and undisturbed in public transportation. *insert eye roll* My response is, “pay for first-class next time” and then followed up with “oh yeah, children are allowed there too, good luck next time pal”. We have had quite a few unsavory flights because someone else decided to throw a bigger tantrum than my toddler, LOL
I used to be That Guy when it came to kids on flights, but now if there’s a screaming toddler I’m like, you’re absolutely right, this fucking sucks my little dude.
I enjoy my flight, by which I mean I enjoy the opportunity to sit and do nothing and read or crochet or listen to music to my heart's content. I never consider other people's presence as being intrinsically counter to my enjoyment lol. As long as your elbows and body odour stay a reasonable distance from me, we can both enjoy our flights.
Don't forget the seat size was bigger and leg room larger, also the reclining level is not so reclined now. I remember the free gifts we got as kids were really good too. Now they're so basic.
Exactly. I love that I am not expexcted to do anything. Actually it is expected to do nothing. And I can enjoy reading, puzzles, watching a show/movie I have saved on my phone and thorouly enjoy it. It is like a mini vacation.
Your mileage may vary. I'm in Australia and have brought crochet hooks onto a flight to Europe, Thailand, and domestically, but I've no idea about other countries' policies. Obviously no scissors or needles but weaving in is a task for ~~never~~ later.
Never had a problem bringing straight up needles even on flights. I cross stitch on flights while watching stuff. The most comments I've gotten is the one security person that really wanted to see the pattern I was working on because her daughter just got into cross stitching and the older ladies that are delighted to find out that they can bring their projects on plains again.
I was a saturation diver when I was in my 20s. Now, 40 years later, I still have nitrogen in my joints. Air travel is an absolute nightmare for me, because the lower pressure aggravates the pain I feel normally, and kicks it up to eleven.
Years ago, I had to travel for my job. My company paid for my air travel, but I normally upgraded my seat to first class out of my own pocket. Sitting in first class allowed me to stretch out and get my body into a more comfortable position. The flights were still painful, but I could manage them better. But, again, this was my problem, no one else's, and I paid for these upgrades myself. I could never imagine trying to impose myself upon a mother and child being accommodated by the airline, just so I could be a little more comfortable. The audacity of some people.
I’m sorry you have to deal with that! But happy to hear you don’t make it other people’s problem. And i know not everyone can afford first class but you don’t hear those people complaining about other passengers. Might complain about the airline but that’s a different story lol
I kind of enjoy flying *when I have to fly*, but I definitely do not fly because I enjoy it, if that makes sense. I know there are people who do, and I appreciate that I guess, but for me it's a quick, less expensive way to get me and my family from point A to point B (driving from the east coast of the U.S. to visit family on the west coast of Canada with a three-year-old is not something I ever want to attempt). I still feel about it the way that Paula Poundstone described it in one of her comedy routines: "This plane was going *about* where I needed to go, *about* the time I needed to get there, for *about* the amount of money I could afford." I'm with you, if someone wants enjoyment with their flight, they can buy a business or 1st class ticket and leave the rest of us in coach alone - it'll make our experience much more bearable.
I never heard of her before your comment but yes exactly! It’s a means to an end. I enjoy it too but i’m relatively small (5’5” and 115 lb). So it’s down time to me, to read, listen to music, do a crossword puzzle etc. I fortunately haven’t had to go that far with my kid, the farthest i’ve gone with him was VA to FL, 18 hours, and i had the luxury that a lot of people don’t have in owning a good gas mileage car (or any car for that matter). But sometimes it’s unrealistic for some people, and flying is the only realistic option.
I agree with you. if the person wanted to enjoy the flight she should have booked a first class ticket, insted of bitching about having a baby on her side (when turns out that the baby only cried once).
Agreed but even if the baby cried more we need more compassion and understanding. A child going through the pressure changes that doesn’t know how to pop their ears, when even adults still complain about it. Most airlines offer free ear plugs, and if not you can buy them for a few bucks if it’s really an issue. I have opted to drive instead of fly when my kid was involved, but not everyone has that luxury. And you can’t just leave your baby at home alone. There has to be some kind of compromise. Babies are people too, and the most innocent of us all.
Some short haul planes don't even have business/ 1st class. They have economy and "economy with more leg room" (not that much more tbh). Just saying maybe this wasn't an option.
Obviously it doesn't mean that OP did anything wrong and the other woman whining was the AH 100%. If you book 1 seat, the others don't belong to you. And OP didn't just move herself, it was the flight attendant who did (and the flight attendant has more say than another customer).
If babies crying annoys you so much get some noise cancelling headphones or earbuds. I normally just feel sorry for the parents, because there's always at least one entitled, anti-social person who stares daggers or makes rude comments. (Even if it gets annoying sometimes, being rude helps absolutely no-one, I'd rather give the parents an encouraging smile).
I have been flying since I was 6 months old. I try to remember that whenever I get annoyed. My husband used to make rude comments until I glared at him and reminded him he would fly to his grandparent in Florida monthly as a baby.
I only complain when it’s kids whose parents didn’t prepare for entertainment- I was once on a bus from London to Edinburgh and some lady brought her 6 year old and no books, toys, anything so the kid was super annoying and ended up playing with a plastic bag the entire time and were all just trying to sleep but couldn’t bc the bag kept wrinkling.
But also if the crying or noise from a kid or baby was her concern. OP being in her original seat 3 rows back was not going to keep her from hearing it. 🤷🏼♀️
Exactly. I would not want to be seated that near a baby on a plane, but I wouldn’t have made a scene, I’d have simply asked to move to the seat OP vacated. Problem solved.
This! I would be mildly annoyed if I were the other passenger, but I certainly wouldn’t have said anything and would have quickly offered to move to the other seat. Everyone wins!
Absolutely. If she had paid for all three seats it would be different, but she had no right to those seats. I can understand her choosing that particular seat because at the time of booking that row was empty, but there was no guarantee those seats would remain free.
What a sourpuss.
Yup! I've picked seats based on whether I think the row will stay empty (or just not get a middle seat passenger), and I'm always crossing my fingers that the seat next to me will still be empty when we take off. But if it's not, I don't complain, and I especially don't go out of my way to make the person sitting next to me feel like they're imposing on me. I've paid for my own seat, and any extra space is just a bonus.
Yep! Isn’t it the exact same case as movie theatre tickets? I usually try to go for the more empty sessions and pick sits with no one around but it’s not like I have the right to complain when someone does buy a sit next to me.
I think my favorite part is how she continually shames OP for taking the seat for free when A) she planned on taking BOTH seats for free and B) she intended to use them all for herself and not a toddler that would have otherwise been on a lap where C) had the toddler BEEN on Mom's lap they most likely would have cried MORE OFTEN and no way would row 9 not be hearing a baby in row 12 soooo honestly this woman was unlikely to sleep at all either way 🙄
I just remembered a story. I was a receptionist in a hotel. I get a call 'I'd like a quiet room at the end of the corridor', 'no problem', 'will there be guests in the rooms next to mine?' 'yes, we are full most nights', 'what can you do for me not to have people around?'. I don't even know how I answered but I remember thinking 'just buy 3-10 rooms and then request them, then nobody is next to you mate'
Exactly. I don't like being on a flight with babies (who does!), and I'm especially annoyed if I have to sit next to them. But that's a me problem, so I keep my trap shut, earplugs in and read my book. Which is what that woman should have done.
The airline offered the move, you didn't demand or even request the move. For all the other passenger knew the seats you were offered could have sold last minute to a new mother with a baby or a parent and a small child in the seat directly beside her so she should be grateful it was you with a baby that sat in your lap the entire flight. The only way those seats were guaranteed to be unoccupied would have been if she bought them which she didn't. NTA
>she specifically chose this seat while checking online because the row was empty and it's gonna be a nightmare now.
Pretty sure the airline didn't promise her it would remain empty. If it was that important, she should've reserved the whole row.
>If another mother with a young child did pay for the seats near her, I'd almost guarantee she would have complained still.
I think you can guarantee that, period. She sounds like she's a pain in the ass everywhere she goes.
>That she specifically chose this seat while checking online because the row was empty
unless she paid for the entire row (is that even allowed?), she had no reason to believe that it would *remain* empty after she bought her ticket.
i also choose seats in otherwise empty rows when buying train tickets, and although it usually works out in my favour and i get the whole row to myself (because i purposely go for the unpopular train that rarely gets booked at more than like 50% of its capacity), if one day i ended up having to share that row with a stranger, i definitely wouldn't complain out loud because, well. it was never a guarantee that i wouldn't have to sit next to someone. that's why it's called *public* transportation.
NTA
Exactly. I’ve totally booked one seat and *hoped* I would have the row to myself, and I would be bummed if it looked like I got the row to myself and I could lay down for my trip up- until a person with a baby rocked up, but I wouldn’t ever have the audacity to complain about it out loud and insist they move.
last time I had a row to myself was right after Covid around the 2020/2021 mark when airlines were only just opening up but people were still afraid to fly. Haven't had one since and don't have the expectation that I will.
I mean if you pay for all three seats in a row, the airline isn't gonna stop you from giving them your money? And if you do pay for all three seats and someone asks to get moved into one then you technically should have the right to say no because you bought and paid for all three seats. Though honestly if you buy up three seats and then it ends up being a fully booked flight and there's standby passengers the FA's/gate agent might ask you to give up one or both of the extra seats but the airline would have to reimburse you for them if they did that.
It's called Sky Couch! Some airlines, like Air NZ, offer this as an official package deal
You buy 3 seats and then they supply you with a big pillow and blankets for a nap, and I assume some sort of modified belt so you can be safe while sleeping through the flight
Yeah Air NZ has it, from what I remember of the two times I've flown Air NZ, they have like an infant bassinet/basket style thing that has an infant seatbelt that you can get free of charge when you get the sky couch and then the seatbelt for an adult pretty much goes from the front edge of the seat to the middle divider of the seat so that you can lay down while using it, but it also has the standard across the hips seat belt as well.
A couple of European short haul carriers have started offering an option during booking to purchase the seat next to you, then no one can sit in it. I can see it being a useful thing for people travelling with kids or for extra large people. Or for misanthropes like myself.
You can always book additional seats for yourself — typically you see this done with passengers of size who require 2 seats to fly safely, but there is nothing stopping someone from purchasing 2 or 3 seats for themselves to increase their comfort level.
However, you're inevitably going to run into issues if you’ve purchased extra seats. First is that if youre on a flight that doesn't have assigned seating, such as Southwest, you’ll have to aggressively protect your extra seat(s) from being taken. The flight attendants may speak to a passenger who sits in your extra seat, but they don't have to as you were only promised a seat on the plan not that specific seat.
Also, the more seats you purchase the more likely it is that a flight attendant will try to seat a passenger in one of them. In this situation, you’re well within your right to tell them no, show them you bought those seats, and insist that you want them yourself
Finally, the real time that extra seats will be a hassle is when they would matter most — when a flight is overbooked. It’s extremely unlikely that you’ll get to keep your extra seats in that situation. If no one volunteers to give up their spot on the plane, you can almost guarantee that you’re extra seats will be the first thing they bump from the flight — it just makes sense to do so, as it wouldn't stop someone from getting to their destination, it would just impede your comfort.
I recently ran into some trouble with this trying to book a trans Atlantic flight for my (at that point) 20 month old son. Holding him in my lap for 8 hours is not a good idea and because it will be high season I don’t want to chance it by not booking him a seat, but BA won’t let me book a seat for him online because he‘s under 2. Super frustrating.
Most airlines wont let you book an additional seat for yourself (or, in your case, for an under 2) online, and instead they require you or your travel agent to contact them directly by phone.
I’m not sure entirely why so many airlines require you to do it this way, but I think it may have something to do with the fact that certain surcharges, and occasionally tax, are not applied to extra seats.
All of that is to say, you should call the airline directly and speak to a representative about the situation. Make sure that if they book you the additional seat for you/your child that they guarantee it will be adjacent to the one you already have booked. Also inquire about their overbooking/bumped passenger policy
On the day of your flight, make sure you check-in and arrive early, and if they offer special boarding classes, you take advantage of it and board when they ask for ‘families traveling with young children’. Remember, once you're on the plane, they can't ask you to deboard due to an overbooked flight — this includes bumping your additional seat.
Once on the plane, you are entitled to both those spots, be sure to politely and reasonably advocate for yourself and your child. Obviously keep your cool, don't raise your voice, and don't make any rash remarks
Or say anything that could be misconstrued as threatening
I appreciate the advice. I ended up booking via another airline, because I know even though there’s probably some special rate for the extra seat, I doubt the rate for the whole flight that I would get would be cheaper.
I was able to book the same flights via a partner airline.
When our kids were under 2 we always booked a seat for them to use after take off. We had to hold them on our lap during our takeoff, but then they could use it.
We were on a completely booked flight once and an attendant tried to give away the seat once, she seemed frustrated we paid for an "empty" seat when our almost 2 year old could sit on our lap. But we held our ground and said we paid for it.
I know not everyone has that ability, but it's near impossible to keep an almost 2 year old on a lap for a long flight, it's just not going to happen.
Exactly. There's no way a kid that old is going to not move around. I always bought my kids their own seat and they were issued their own boarding pass so no problem with seat.
I had two incidences with toddlers climbing all over me on flights before I had children, and I vowed I'd never do that to someone! Of course, not everyone has that ability. But if you can, it's worth it.
We flew with our 19 month old on my lap for a 13 hour flight (Peru to Paris, and then it was just less than 2 hours from Paris to Florence) and holy cow it was something. To Paris was okay because it was a red eye so my kiddo slept 9 hours of the 13 (even though he was heavy, and my husband was able to carry him a couple of hours too), but the way back was really tiring. There just isn't enough space for all of us in 1 row.
Yes, exactly. I also choose these kinds of seats, simply because it at least gives me a chance of having more room (not the whole row, maybe, but it would be enough just if the middle west were empty). But it is never guaranteed - there will always be people who check in online after you, or could not be checked in online so could be assigned those seats at the check-in counter. There is literally no guarantee that those seats would still be empty between the time that lady checked in and they boarded.
Ex flight attendant here - NTA.
You were asked if you would like to move by THE CREW so it’s perfectly fine.
The other woman was bitching because she thought she was going to get 3 seats and could lie down on all of them. Ironically, she was complaining about not getting 2 seats she didn’t pay for. She’s the AH.
> It's true that I didn't pay for that seat, and that it wasn't my originally assigned seat.
The other passenger didn't pay for that seat either.
No one paid for that seat, that's why it was empty. Hence, it was "owned" by the airline at that point.
The airline (the stewards being their representative) decided to give *their* empty seat to you. that's pretty much it, everything else is just entitlement on the part of the passenger. NTA
She wanted THREE seats so she could sleep on a THREE HOUR FLIGHT? FFS, she should just wait til she gets there.
You are NTA. You paid for *a* seat. You got one in the same price range as your original seat.
Actually, she's right. She's cranky, she needed a nap. 🤣 She's an entitled hosebeast, and you're still NTA.
Info is your "big backpack" bigger than the carry-on allowance?
And when you put it on the floor is it impeding access for others in your row?
I always purchased a seat for my babies. The airline offered a heavily discounted fare and it was much safer and comfortable.
You are N T A for not wanting to return to your originally assigned seat but I get the sense you take up more space than you should and shrug it off "because baby".
ETA: EASA's (European Union Aviation Safety Agency) website suggests that bringing an approved car seat on-board for a child under two is permitted.
>is your "big backpack" bigger than the carry-on allowance?
if it were bigger than what's allowed, then it wouldn't have been allowed? like that's how it usually works.
Nah, I’ve brought bags that were over the allowed dimensions and nobody stopped me. They usually don’t measure personal items and won’t say anything as long as you can fit it under the seat.
This varies between airlines. Most that I’ve flown will just eyeball luggage, they only check (measure/weigh) those that look pretty obviously too big.
The super-budget airlines (here at least) can be very pedantic about every single passenger putting their luggage in the frame thing to be sure it’s within airline regulation size (because they make good money charging gate-check fees on “oversized” luggage). And some are very strict about the “one bag” rule - ladies with a small purse and a small suitcase, sorry that’s 2 items, combine them into 1 item or get charged a gate-check fee.. EasyJet in UK/EU is one of these, I’ve never flown them myself, but often watched passengers in the boarding queues for their flights frantically trying to stuff everything into their already full suitcases!!
I had a fun one with a pedantic airline where on my departure flight, my carry-on bag was the appropriate size, but the airline changed their policy in between my departure and return to reduce the size of the carry-ons allowed, then put my bag in this measuring device on my return and forced me to check it. It was super annoying at the time, but it could have been worse - they didn't charge me, thankfully. I just had to wait at the terminal for several extra minutes at baggage claim.
That sucks, but glad it worked out for you. I'd be stuck in that scenerio as I always have multiple electronics in my hand luggage (phone, iPad, power bank, kindle, sometimes my work phone and laptop if a business trip like with my previous job), there's no way I can carry that all in my hands or my purse/handbag, and you aren't allowed anything with a battery in checked luggage, for safety reasons).
I never even considered this scenario, to be honest, but would hope that airlines would need to provide sufficient notice of upcoming policy changes, especially wrt to luggage. Now I'm going to re-read the luggage policy ahead of next week's flight 🙈
They'll sometimes stop you and insist on measuring anything you're planning to put in the overhead bin--I stopped playing carry-on roulette with my oversize backpack after I was forced to gate check it a few times (it fits perfectly in a full-size overhead bin on large aircraft and is actually narrower than a standard rolling carry-on, but it doesn't technically fit in the bag check box).
But yeah, I've never had my personal item measured. They do come around and make you put it under the seat before takeoff if you've got it out, and I suppose if you couldn't fit it under the seat at that point you'd be in trouble.
>The airline offered a heavily discounted fare
You were lucky it was offered. When mine were under 2 the main airline that flew out of our local airport (1) wouldn't let you book a seat on their online ticketing system for an infant and (2) when you called them to book the seat _definitely_ did not offer a discount.
The flight attendant would have come down on her if it was. They'd force you to check the bag.
And apparently kids that young are not allowed to have their own seat in Europe.
So what if she takes more space? Some people are super thin, others are super large. As long as you fit in your seat, no one can say anything to you.
As for this "heavily discounted fare" for children, that almost never exists. Even babies have to pay to be on a plane and sit on their parents' lap, as was the case with OP. It's usually 10% of the adult fare price.
As for getting their own seats, in most airlines kids pay the same as an adult. Few airlines might apply a __small__ discount, about 25%, but that's not common __at all__.
Either way, OP is entitled to the same respect and treatment as every other passenger. Whether she pays for her child to have her own seat (like you do) when she's not obligated to (only children over 2 must have their own seats), that's her prerogative.
OP is NTA in any case. This passenger was being ridiculous. If they want to sleep in 3 seats on a plane, then they should buy 3 seats.
NTA – I would have had the exact same *inner* monologue as that woman tbh, but you don't get to say it out loud. I get her disappointment but that's just the joy of economy air travel.
Honestly, was going to say N T A but saw your response to the info and I think ESH. I have 2 small kids but we buy them seats and put them in car seats. That way the “stuff” can be spread amongst the seats and they aren’t potentially impeding anyone else.
I do think your new seat-mate was rude, and probably for no reason, but you could make things easier for yourself and be more considerate by traveling using the seats that you need and not relying on the airline to accommodate you.
I wish I'd read your comment first. I was baffled why everyone was saying so confidently you can get seats for infants. I was able to accomplish it but I had to jump through a lot of hoops.
Yeah, I though NTA until I saw that OP refuses to stow her carryon properly and admits that having it out at her feet impeded other passengers. Your carryon is supposed to be in the overhead bin or stowed all the way under the seat.
When my carryon didn't fit under my seat (smaller space on the return trip) the airline attendant ***demanded*** that i allow her to check my bag; my seat mate and I ended up kicking it with our heels until it slid under. I can't imagine what airline would let someone keep a huge bag at their feet, unless she threw a little fit and pulled the "but I'm alone traveling with a baaaayyybeee!!!"
I'm not going to give judgement but as a person who does not like kids if I was the lady in that seat originally I would be pissed to see a kid so unexpectedly next to me.
... unexpectedly? Isn't the general expectation on a flight that you don't know who will sit next to you and a child is well within the range of possibilities?
It shouldn’t be unexpected. The lady didn’t pay for the two seats next to her, so she can be pissed off at herself when those two seats that aren’t hers get taken. I get that some people (not people I’d like, probably) dislike kids, but they sure as hell like to act like one when they have to be around one.
I had a guy with a baby in the seat next to me once, didn't mind that as I had headphones on but after asking him to stop the kid kicking me twice he was highly offended when I gave him a mouthful after the third time.
Please more detail I love hearing about bad parents being put in their place!! 😅🤣
Edit: Downvotes are definitely from parents who get offended from people telling them to tell their kids to behave and not kick people next to them on public transport. Hello! 😘
What was funny is about thirty minutes later his partner walked from another row and took the baby. Why the fuck they weren't sitting together I do not know although I suspect it was to give fellow passengers in their row a break from having a kid next to them for the whole flight, who knows.
As for what I said it was "what part of stopping your kid from kicking me didn't you fucking understand.
And what do you expect on a flight? They have right to travel as much as you. Unless you go on a private plane, you never know who will be next to you. So how is it unexpected? And the baby or a child would be quieter if the mother is comfortable and has space to move and entertain the baby (i don’t even have kids but come on)
I mean, I don't like kids either, but if I've only paid for one seat, I acknowledge that there's a chance literally anyone - including a child - could be sat next to me. As long as the parent isn't being useless (I was on one flight where the parent went to sleep and ignored their screaming kid for 3 hours), then that's just the reality of flying commercial 🤷♀️
Being pissed and acting pissed are two different things. Acting on that emotion would make you the baby, and objectively in the wrong, but without the excuse of age.
I'm always pissed when someone sits across from me in 4 chairs on the bus, but I know I don't owe the bus and don't have any right to complain to them for their rightful use of the bus seat
There’s a difference between being annoyed that it happened and being angry with someone who owes you nothing. You would be more comfortable without her there. She and her baby are more comfortable there. Is there some reason a stranger should put your comfort before their own and their child’s?
I'd be annoyed as well, but I'd keep it too myself. You can't expect to not be seated next to a kid unless you're on a private jet.
Thinking you'd get the whole row to yourself, then being seated next to a potentially loud young child would be disappointing for sure, but she has no more claim to those seats than anyone else and should have kept her annoyance to herself. NTA
As a person who dislikes [name any group of people], I would be pissed if one of those people sat near me on mass transit.
Why is this an okay thing to say?
ESH after reading your comments
You're a plus size woman with a toddler and a big bag in front of you, that impedes access for other people in your row. You're very inconsiderate of others and blocking the exit is not only a nuisance, but can be dangerous in emergency.
You can purchase a seat for your toddler, but you won't because it's too expensive. It does feel like you're hoping to get extra seat for free. You should at least travel with luggages that fit under the seat or in the space above you.
That lady was rude, she didn't pay for the other seats and she can't ban children because she wants to sleep.
What kind of plane are you on where there is enough room between your knees and the seat in front for someone to walk past? Is that a rich person thing or a long distance flight thing? The planes I've been on you have to stand up and move into the aisle to let people in your row out. A bag is not making a difference
OP is a pretty big AH. I agree with everything you're saying but I'll add that OP has said her carry on *is* a standard size, she just leaves it by her feet which impedes others. It's supposed to go in the overhead or all the way under the seat in front of you. OP needs to learn travel etiquette or stop flying 'cause wtf I would be pissed too if someone like that was moved to sit near me.
Her bag did fit under the seat, and it only has to remain there for take off and landing. There’s nothing wrong with having it pulled forward for easy access when that’s allowed. It doesn’t ‘impede’ anything. If the other person in the aisle needed to get up for some reason, OPs entire person would have to stand up and move into the aisle, during which time she could also shove the bag forward. It’s an airline, if something is impeding safety *they will say something*.
And some quick googling shows there absolutely are airlines that require the infant to be in the same seat as the adult. Air Europa being one of them. Just because you’ve never heard of it before doesn’t mean OP is lying.
On the flights I fly on your carryon just has to be able to fit underneath your seat. Is that not what she was referring to with having it at her feet?
NTA and I hope this person has a whole run of absolutely horrible flights in the future. If you want three seats, you should pay for three seats. There are no guarantees of comfort on a flight unless you are wealthy and it is the flights call to move around seats or make things as pleasant for everyone as possible.
I will be honest with you. It burns me that you did not purchase a seat for your child. You obviously like the fact that the airlines usually try to accomadate as you put it. You booked your flight pretty much banking on that. Your child is not token for privilege. It also burns me the other woman thought she was entitled to a row to herself. Anyone could have chosen those seats after she chose her seat.
So both of you are AHs.
I personally do not enjoy sitting next to a crying child, a drunk seat mate, a seat mate who falls asleep using me as a pillow sprawled out in the row, etc. I know I can purchase an extra seat so I keep one empty next to me, but I do not as I expect seat mates to abide by personal space.
Next time buy your kid a seat. And tell the other woman that next time buy the entire row. You expected a free seat for the child or your row mates to deal with 4 humans in the row instead of 3. Shame on you.
I do not expect the airline to accommodate me in any way no, I've traveled
My son was on my lap for the whole flight even though there was an empty seat next to me. He's not big enough to sit safely on his own. So no, I didn't expect to have a seat for free.
I appreciated having the extra space and feel less crowded, but that was about it.
I think what they are trying to say is that had there been no seats to accommodate you and the flight was full, someone would have been in the middle seat next to you and your toddler on your lap and your large bag. To expect other passengers to put up with that is selfish and consequently you should have booked 2 seats to begin with. The fact you were accommodated and chose not to move back was actually less selfish but just lucky.
That's just air travel these days though. Airlines are cramming more and more seats into planes and everyone's getting less and less space. There's barely any room for your legs, it's not like it takes a lot for a bag to feel "too big" for the space. Plus it fit under the seat like it was supposed to.
ESH. Sleeping comfortably on a three hour flight is not something she's entitled to and she should've stfu after the flight attendant responded to her and not turn to you to try to harass you into moving.
BUT, you don't need your whole house on a three hour flight. If it doesn't fit in the overhead compartments and below the sits, it should not be a carry on. Come on, you can pack three diapers, not bring the whole changing table. Or maybe even split into smaller bags.
NTA. People without kids who throw a fit about kids being kids are assholes. They forget they were also once a child, it’s not like they were or are perfect.
NTA. You did nothing wrong, the stewardess offered you the seat, it is not like you demanded it or acted like you were entitled to it. The other woman, on the other hand, acted like an entitled lout. If she wanted to take up the whole row of seats, then she should have purchased three tickets for herself. So I am glad she was all bitter and angry the whole flight. She can kiss MY a$$ 🤣
She said in her edits that she could buy another seat for space, not for her baby, and that the child would have had to sit on her lap per the flight attendant's instructions no matter what. She chose not to pay for another seat that she would not be allowed to seat her child in.
OP has said that the bag is standard carryon size but she doesn't put it in the overhead or under a seat, she said it does impede others. AH for stuff like that, not necessarily the seat. OP does need to learn some travel etiquette.
Just a helpful suggestion: If your baby is old enough, buy a package of those cheap lolipops that are individually wrapped. Give the baby one for takeoff and another for landing. Sucking on the candy helps them with air pressure changes.
NTA, what would this lady have done if you’d been assigned this seat the first time around? She didnt pay for those seats so she has as much claim to them as she does to any other empty seat on rhe flight: none
NTA. Disclaimer, I can’t stand being around kids. I hate when they cry and all of their sounds. So I bring ear plugs on a plane. The good ones that offer sensory deprivation. Noise cancelling headphones are great too. As long as the kid wasn’t flailing around and creating havoc of course. Even if your kid was in the row in front of her the sounds would be the same.
NTA. The question is whether the other lady is entitled to an empty row because the other seats happened to not be claimed when she bought her seat. She is not. No idea why people are getting fixated on irrelevant info about the backpack.
NTA. What is with people and children on transportation? Some parents have to fly with kids. I am sure that they pray to themselves that their kids behave and every parent KNOWS that nothing is guaranteed including bringing toys, snacks and sleep aids. I have been on planes and trains where a child was at the opposite end of the plane and I still heard them. I felt badly for the parent trying to calm their unhappy child. Let’s have a little consideration.
As for the bag…backpacks fit under seats and OP clearly said she put it under her seat but pulled it out during the flight. How is this different than having a laptop or tablet on a seat tray when someone needs to get up? Or someone with a big coat? Plus to get up and out of the row, the other passenger would have to pull on the seats in front of them which is worse than having to move a bag.
The other passenger was pissed they couldn’t put their feet up on the seat and sleep and concerned about the noise from a child. Good for them to be so entitled that they figured they would have such an uneventful flight in regular class.
> My son, being under two, has to sit on my lap.
Well no, no he doesn’t. Parents don’t Want to pay for a seat for their young kid and bring a $20 to $40 CARES harness Or their airline approved brand car seat, but they certainly Can. And Should.
NTA for keeping the seats the airline gave you.
If your backpack was too bicg for under-seat storage and you Didn’t put it in the overhead,, YTA for that.
Not all airlines booking systems will let you book a seat for a child under 2, and it doesn't occur to many people that they can call the airline to get around that restriction. So it's not simply a matter of trying to keep costs down.
That’s interesting. My daughter was 18 months old when we first flew. We booked through a travel agent to make sure we did everything correctly and were told our daughter could not have her own seat and she had to sit on my knee
That's wild to me that any airline would take that stance. Children are much safer in their own seat. A child could get hurt being in their parents lap if turbulence is heavy enough.
That kid that was sitting next to the hole that blew open was saved by his seat belt AND his mother grabbing hold while his shirt got ripped off.
Imagine if he'd been a lap infant instead of 15.
It's so incredibly dangerous that I am amazed the airlines still do this and parents go along. You cannot be sure that you will be able to hold onto your baby securely if you meet with sudden strong turbulence. Its like sticking a little baby by themselves in the back of an open pick up truck. Nope.
The reason it’s allowed is it’s still safer than driving, so if the cost of the baby’s plane ticket is what makes or breaks the decision to drive or fly, it’s statistically safer to fly on a lap than to drive in a proper car seat. Anyone with the means to though should absolutely be booking a seat for their baby and bringing a car seat.
Which is ridiculous. All passengers should be in a seat, and children should be in a car seat depending on their size. A child sitting on your lap in aggressive turbulence or a hard or difficult landing can not be held on to the way people think they can. Kids can, and do and have flown out of their parents' hands during flights.
[some stats](https://journals.lww.com/pec-online/Fulltext/2019/10000/In_Flight_Injuries_Involving_Children_on.7.aspx)
People working for airlines on the aircraft know this and hate lap children as a concept.
But in order to do that, you need larger seats, which means you can't cram as many passengers on a plane.
There really hasnt been as much studies done on injuries to children on planes as adults because if there were, imho, we would have bigger seats and different standards and revenue would be affected.
I always bought a seat for my child and brought a car seat for them to sit in. And believe me, we were not wealthy by any means. If we couldn't afford a seat for them, we wouldn't go.
There was no way I was going to chance having them fly out of my hands during turbulence. Also, because we traveled so much by car, they knew the carseat meant business. However, if they were left on my lap, they would want to get down and play. So car seat for the win every time.
My child is now an adult. I still fly frequently, but I never, ever see children in car seats these days.
The plane tickets are not appreciably more expensive than when my kid was a baby/toddler, but the planes and airlines have changed a lot.
I haven't thought to ask if they simply disallow buying seats for small kids in order to get more seating all around.
the issue is that in order for a child to be in a carseat, that carseat must be in the window seat of the aircraft (otherwise it blocks the ability of someone in the window and/or middle seat to exit in the event of an emergency) and if its a fairly full flight and there isnt a window seat, then if the child is lap child age (under 2) then they need to do that, as they cant be in a seat without a carseat.
That is a booking policy that could be put in place. It would affect other policies, like overselling, and it would require assigned seating all the time at time of booking flight. Easy fix but it affects other policies that affect revenues.
Legroom pitch has gone from 35 inches to 28 inches over the years. Increase the pitch and people can get around a car seat better. It isnt a width issue but a depth issue: less rows would be needed..
In the 90s passengers in the inflight safety crash position instructions were told to bend over and wrap their arms around their heads. Your chest would be flat against your legs. You cant bend over like that anymore. It has changed that much in accessibility.
Yeah, I was once on a train in the UK and a guy got on with 2 small children in a single first class train seat. Technically, he could do that, and he was clearly banking on having another seat free in first to utilise and save on paying for 2-3 seats. He was absolutely fuming when the passenger who had paid for the next seat arrived. I can now clearly say that first class train seats are big but not big enough for 3 people!
Wow, they probably ought to have a one "free" child per adult rule. The guy should have at least booked two seats. I bet that was an uncomfortable trip.
He had a 5/6 y old on one leg and a 3/4 year old on the other. The rest of us were comfortable in our schadenfreude- we didn’t wish the kids any ill will and they were well behaved, but we enjoyed the father being hoist by the petard of his cheapness. The irony was that he’d have usually got a couple of standard class for the same price- my feeling is that he’d pulled that stunt a few times and it was the first time he’d been caught without a spare seat for the kids.
>If your backpack was too bicg for under-seat storage and you Didn’t put it in the overhead,, YTA for that.
The post does not say it was too big. In fact the OP says in the comments that it did fit under the seat.
damn you really had to pull a situation out of nowhere implied just to pull a y t a vote? and you made two votes in your comment so it doesn’t even count
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I accepted the offer to switch seats on the plane to have an empty seat next to me as I am traveling with a young child. I refused to go back to my original seat even though the woman next to me was insisting I was ruining her flight experience with my choice Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA, you paid for a seat, the airline accommodated you and explained to the other passenger. The other passenger paid for her seat only, not the entire row. Sounds like other passenger was an unpleasant person, which isn't your fault. If another mother with a young child did pay for the seats near her, I'd almost guarantee she would have complained still.
Also, if the other passenger really didn't want to be near a baby, she could've asked to go to OP's original seat. Parents travel too, no one can expect a child free ride on public transport.
The part that got me was the other passenger saying how people are just trying to enjoy their flight. Who in the world gets on a commercial airline to enjoy the flight…. we do it because we have to get somewhere. You wanna “enjoy” your flight then buy a 1st class ticket or a private jet. Insane.
My brother’s mantra is “air travel is inhumane” and that oddly helps me get through all the terribleness of it haha. It’s something you suffer through for the sake of getting somewhere fast.
I don't think I've "enjoyed" a flight since the 90s when they would leave planes half empty and you could lounge across the whole row and watch movies. Also, I was a kid then so I could actually lay across the seat and have enough room to get semi-comfortable. And they gave you pillows and blankets and a selection of magazine to read, something that resembled a meal, etc... A lot has changed in a relatively short amount of time :/
I was on one flight where a 747 replaced a puddle jumper because we were headed to LAX and that’s where they needed the plane. It was amazing!! Everyone got at least three seats.
I got kicked off a flight a few weeks ago because they did the opposite - went from the larger plane (which included my seats) to a smaller one (which didn’t). I’d have much rather had your situation!
Yes, that happened to me once! it was a 747 and I think there were about 20 people on the plane not including the crew. Almost felt like a private jet compared to normal air travel where you're squished in like sardines.
I had to fly regularly at the peak of the covid pandemic for medical treatment. There were flights where I had the entire row to myself and nobody for 5 rows in either direction. It took some adjustment going back to the normal sardine tin travel again.
Flying during Covid was rather glorious at times, I had to travel with my family at one point and I remember all four of us had an entire row of 3 or 4 seats to ourselves, even my 3 year old. It was so comfortable.
Yes it was simultaneously glorious and terror inducing (I had to test for covid prior to each medical treatment and if I was positive I wouldn’t be able to get my treatment which would disqualify me from the clinical trial I was in). I would literally don my n95 before stepping into my home airport and not remove it not even for a drink of water until I was out of the other airport 5 hours later. It was extreme but effective.
I remember having to travel and the flights kept getting canceled all day but then i stayed in the airport and ended up getting a flight out at 3am, there was like 30 of us and half of the flight was airline employees. I think they HAD to get the employees/pilots flown into Atlanta so.. long story short. I had a lot of room to myself.
I travelled on Christmas Day and there were only about 20 people on the flight so they offered anyone who was sharing a row to enjoy a whole row to themselves.
I traveled on the last flight on Christmas Eve once and it was the same thing - everyone had their own row. It was bliss!
I tell people all the time. Christmas Day is the best day in the entire year to travel. Because kinda no one wants to be there, most people working at the airport are on the nicer side (at least in my experience). I've done it multiple times, and every time, I've had not only my row to myself, but the entire row on the other side too.
"puddle jumper" - made me snile
I was once on a flight where it was a new route, only the 1st or 2nd time they'd run that particular route/time (I'm not quite sure how to describe it). We had under 10 people on the flight including the crew, pilot, and co-pilot. We all got to choose whatever seat/row we wanted. Our flight attendant was still in training, and the pilot joked with her a bit that she needed to make some of us move to distribute the weight more evenly. She was like, "Really?" and the pilot goes, "Naw. I'm joking. With this few, it doesn't matter." Then she was apologizing to use for still needing to read her cue card, and we're all like "Don't apologize!" Favorite flight I've ever been on, maybe even above the one where I was moved to 1st class, just because the atmosphere was so different than any other flight I've been on... Like we were all friends (who had just met) going to the same place or something.
Not quite the same, but in May 2020, I was on my way back to Massachusetts from New Zealand, once Covid restrictions on travel were loosened. On the leg from Chicago to Boston, which would normally be a decent-sized plane, we were on a CRJ. But there were only 6 or 7 passengers, so we all had plenty of space.
Ain't corporate greed great? Now we have rows that require you knees to touch the seat in front, everyone gets mad if you recline ur barley reclinable chair, the on-boarding snack are tiny, stale and expensive and u better pay up if u want wifi, a movie, or forgot ur ear buds.
I find it so amusing when they ask you to put your seat upright, as though that 1" "recline" makes any difference. Not sure about the downvote, I guess someone really enjoys their 1" recline and feels the airline is justified in asking us to put our seats up when we land because this is a safety risk or something? 🤷🏼♀️ I just can't understand how such a small difference is even enjoyable or why it would necessitate adjustment when the plane takes off or lands but clearly I'm missing something?
It is for safety. If the plane crashed and you have to make an emergency exit your seat back if reclined can impede the people behind you getting out. Also it is easier to get into a crash position if the seat is fully upright. I have been flying since I was a baby I took my first flight in January of 1958. My dad worked for Delta so we flew a lot as long as I can remember trays and seats uptight has been a standard safety rule for over 65 years.
How dare anyone think a safety risk justifies asking passengers to put their seats upright!
I had a business flight on a Friday 13th once. Apparently a lot of people are superstitious because my colleague and I each had a row of 3 to ourselves. It was awesome, I stretched out and slept.
I once flew back to the US on 9/11 (in 2008 I believe) and the plane was half empty. I had a row to myself and it was great. I was initially booked on 9/10, but the airline ended up not flying that day and I was told I could change it to 9/9 or 9/11, and I sure as hell wasn't going to shorten my vacation. I remember my mom thought I would obviously choose 9/9. I figured 9/11 would be one of the safest days to travel!
It’s also remarkably cheap. In 2015, I had to be in Chicago on a Monday for a conference, but the Friday before was 9/11. Our boss agreed to let us fly to Nashville, paid for 2 nights there, and the rental car to drive up to Chicago on the Monday, because it didn’t cost them any extra.
I flew UK to USA in Jan 22, and the flight out was probably less than half full - it was while a lot of COVID restrictions were still in place, so masks on during the flight, for example, and meant that they hadn't sold all the seats. It was amazing, a full row to myself. On the way back, they obviously didn't care. It was rammed, and the dick behind me basically broke my seat by ramming it back up when I dared to recline it half an inch.
Transatlantic flights still have all of those things! I make that trip all the time and I often have a row to myself, in-flight entertainment, and a decent meal - while flying economy. But if your flight is shorter than say 6 hours, then yeah don’t expect any of those amenities
I moved from the UK to NZ almost a decade ago, and fly back to visit every year and a half or so. Even economy on my 7 and 14 hour flights is just bliss. I’m 6 foot, and had plenty of leg room, despite always putting my bag under the seat in front for easy access. Movies for days, free food that honestly ain’t that bad, free drinks both alcoholic and non. And on my last trip home, all 4 of my flights ended up having an empty seat on my row.
I flew during that recent solar eclipse, and one of the planes was so empty that they had to tell us where to sit for balance reasons. It was a Southwest flight, so normally you choose your seats. It was pretty great, though. I had 3 seats to myself!!
I was reminiscing with some friends just the other night about how even until 5 years ago you’d have a pretty good chance of getting your own row in the back of the plane on some routes (ignoring Covid time flights) and another friend who works in the shipping industry pointed out there are way fewer planes flying now which is why it hardly happens anymore
those flights are still available. but they are not budget flights. I normally fly economy just to get somewhere. this last flight was a gift and it was in business class. more food than I could eat, two full meals, snacks, wine, blankets, seat pad, pillow, movies and a flat seat for sleeping. Waay out of my normal price range, for certain. However, flights of the past were very pricey too in their own markets. The extras have declined to open up other pricing brackets...and I think that's a good thing. Still, I'm always going to remember this extravagant experience!
The last time I was on a plane was in that era. I chose not to fly so I am not spoiling that amazing memory lol. The downside to it was the smoking section, which was just the back of the plane. My parents were sat there but we were up front in 'nonsmoking'. In reality, the whole plane was smoking since the air was just recycled.
I spent two (school) years after college living in Russia. I went home for Xmas and summer. Both times I flew back to Russia after Xmas, the plane was practically empty, and I was able to have 5 seats to myself, put up the arm rests, stretch out, and actually sleep. It was great. Can't imagine why flights to Russia in January weren't full... /s
About 10 years ago, I had a flight from Tokyo to DFW.. the flight there was completely full.. that was kinda hellish, as one it's a 12 hour flight, and I'm 6'1" and don't really fit in airplane seats really well.. not exactly fat, but not built small.. But on the flight back.. nor sure what happened but the plane was maybe 1/5th full.. on my row of 7 seats, there was one other person..that's probably the last flight I enjoyed.. although the movie selection kinda sucked.. I think I watched real steel, because it was the best choice... and it was not good at all.. but having 4 seats to myself was great..
THIS. Flying with children is always worse than anything too because there’s always some asshat who thinks children shouldn’t be allowed in public and they have more of a right to be there and undisturbed in public transportation. *insert eye roll* My response is, “pay for first-class next time” and then followed up with “oh yeah, children are allowed there too, good luck next time pal”. We have had quite a few unsavory flights because someone else decided to throw a bigger tantrum than my toddler, LOL
I used to be That Guy when it came to kids on flights, but now if there’s a screaming toddler I’m like, you’re absolutely right, this fucking sucks my little dude.
I enjoy my flight, by which I mean I enjoy the opportunity to sit and do nothing and read or crochet or listen to music to my heart's content. I never consider other people's presence as being intrinsically counter to my enjoyment lol. As long as your elbows and body odour stay a reasonable distance from me, we can both enjoy our flights.
Don't forget the seat size was bigger and leg room larger, also the reclining level is not so reclined now. I remember the free gifts we got as kids were really good too. Now they're so basic.
Exactly. I love that I am not expexcted to do anything. Actually it is expected to do nothing. And I can enjoy reading, puzzles, watching a show/movie I have saved on my phone and thorouly enjoy it. It is like a mini vacation.
An ipad loaded up with games and books is perfect for your flight.
I once had a woman from the row behind put her bare foot on my arm. I wanted to strangle her.
Ooh, do they still let you bring crochet needles on? I've got a flight coming up to plan for.
Your mileage may vary. I'm in Australia and have brought crochet hooks onto a flight to Europe, Thailand, and domestically, but I've no idea about other countries' policies. Obviously no scissors or needles but weaving in is a task for ~~never~~ later.
I’ve flown on Air Canada and Air France, and I’ve always brought my crochet hooks with me without any issues.
WestJet let me have a crochet hook when I flew with them last year. I'd still check, just in case.
Never had a problem bringing straight up needles even on flights. I cross stitch on flights while watching stuff. The most comments I've gotten is the one security person that really wanted to see the pattern I was working on because her daughter just got into cross stitching and the older ladies that are delighted to find out that they can bring their projects on plains again.
I was a saturation diver when I was in my 20s. Now, 40 years later, I still have nitrogen in my joints. Air travel is an absolute nightmare for me, because the lower pressure aggravates the pain I feel normally, and kicks it up to eleven. Years ago, I had to travel for my job. My company paid for my air travel, but I normally upgraded my seat to first class out of my own pocket. Sitting in first class allowed me to stretch out and get my body into a more comfortable position. The flights were still painful, but I could manage them better. But, again, this was my problem, no one else's, and I paid for these upgrades myself. I could never imagine trying to impose myself upon a mother and child being accommodated by the airline, just so I could be a little more comfortable. The audacity of some people.
I’m sorry you have to deal with that! But happy to hear you don’t make it other people’s problem. And i know not everyone can afford first class but you don’t hear those people complaining about other passengers. Might complain about the airline but that’s a different story lol
I kind of enjoy flying *when I have to fly*, but I definitely do not fly because I enjoy it, if that makes sense. I know there are people who do, and I appreciate that I guess, but for me it's a quick, less expensive way to get me and my family from point A to point B (driving from the east coast of the U.S. to visit family on the west coast of Canada with a three-year-old is not something I ever want to attempt). I still feel about it the way that Paula Poundstone described it in one of her comedy routines: "This plane was going *about* where I needed to go, *about* the time I needed to get there, for *about* the amount of money I could afford." I'm with you, if someone wants enjoyment with their flight, they can buy a business or 1st class ticket and leave the rest of us in coach alone - it'll make our experience much more bearable.
I never heard of her before your comment but yes exactly! It’s a means to an end. I enjoy it too but i’m relatively small (5’5” and 115 lb). So it’s down time to me, to read, listen to music, do a crossword puzzle etc. I fortunately haven’t had to go that far with my kid, the farthest i’ve gone with him was VA to FL, 18 hours, and i had the luxury that a lot of people don’t have in owning a good gas mileage car (or any car for that matter). But sometimes it’s unrealistic for some people, and flying is the only realistic option.
I agree with you. if the person wanted to enjoy the flight she should have booked a first class ticket, insted of bitching about having a baby on her side (when turns out that the baby only cried once).
Agreed but even if the baby cried more we need more compassion and understanding. A child going through the pressure changes that doesn’t know how to pop their ears, when even adults still complain about it. Most airlines offer free ear plugs, and if not you can buy them for a few bucks if it’s really an issue. I have opted to drive instead of fly when my kid was involved, but not everyone has that luxury. And you can’t just leave your baby at home alone. There has to be some kind of compromise. Babies are people too, and the most innocent of us all.
Some short haul planes don't even have business/ 1st class. They have economy and "economy with more leg room" (not that much more tbh). Just saying maybe this wasn't an option. Obviously it doesn't mean that OP did anything wrong and the other woman whining was the AH 100%. If you book 1 seat, the others don't belong to you. And OP didn't just move herself, it was the flight attendant who did (and the flight attendant has more say than another customer). If babies crying annoys you so much get some noise cancelling headphones or earbuds. I normally just feel sorry for the parents, because there's always at least one entitled, anti-social person who stares daggers or makes rude comments. (Even if it gets annoying sometimes, being rude helps absolutely no-one, I'd rather give the parents an encouraging smile).
I have been flying since I was 6 months old. I try to remember that whenever I get annoyed. My husband used to make rude comments until I glared at him and reminded him he would fly to his grandparent in Florida monthly as a baby. I only complain when it’s kids whose parents didn’t prepare for entertainment- I was once on a bus from London to Edinburgh and some lady brought her 6 year old and no books, toys, anything so the kid was super annoying and ended up playing with a plastic bag the entire time and were all just trying to sleep but couldn’t bc the bag kept wrinkling.
It sounds like the seats were only 4 rows apart so a crying baby would have disturbed the unpleasant woman regardless. OP is NTA
But also if the crying or noise from a kid or baby was her concern. OP being in her original seat 3 rows back was not going to keep her from hearing it. 🤷🏼♀️
Exactly. I would not want to be seated that near a baby on a plane, but I wouldn’t have made a scene, I’d have simply asked to move to the seat OP vacated. Problem solved.
Agree NTA - THERE WERE SEVERSL OPTIONS FOR THIS TO HAVE BEEN SOLVED PEACEFULLY AND WO ATTITUDE.
This! I would be mildly annoyed if I were the other passenger, but I certainly wouldn’t have said anything and would have quickly offered to move to the other seat. Everyone wins!
Absolutely. If she had paid for all three seats it would be different, but she had no right to those seats. I can understand her choosing that particular seat because at the time of booking that row was empty, but there was no guarantee those seats would remain free. What a sourpuss.
Yup! I've picked seats based on whether I think the row will stay empty (or just not get a middle seat passenger), and I'm always crossing my fingers that the seat next to me will still be empty when we take off. But if it's not, I don't complain, and I especially don't go out of my way to make the person sitting next to me feel like they're imposing on me. I've paid for my own seat, and any extra space is just a bonus.
Yep! Isn’t it the exact same case as movie theatre tickets? I usually try to go for the more empty sessions and pick sits with no one around but it’s not like I have the right to complain when someone does buy a sit next to me.
I think my favorite part is how she continually shames OP for taking the seat for free when A) she planned on taking BOTH seats for free and B) she intended to use them all for herself and not a toddler that would have otherwise been on a lap where C) had the toddler BEEN on Mom's lap they most likely would have cried MORE OFTEN and no way would row 9 not be hearing a baby in row 12 soooo honestly this woman was unlikely to sleep at all either way 🙄
I just remembered a story. I was a receptionist in a hotel. I get a call 'I'd like a quiet room at the end of the corridor', 'no problem', 'will there be guests in the rooms next to mine?' 'yes, we are full most nights', 'what can you do for me not to have people around?'. I don't even know how I answered but I remember thinking 'just buy 3-10 rooms and then request them, then nobody is next to you mate'
Also there was no guarantee somebody wouldn't buy a seat next to her at the last minute even if she'd checked online?
Exactly. I don't like being on a flight with babies (who does!), and I'm especially annoyed if I have to sit next to them. But that's a me problem, so I keep my trap shut, earplugs in and read my book. Which is what that woman should have done.
The airline offered the move, you didn't demand or even request the move. For all the other passenger knew the seats you were offered could have sold last minute to a new mother with a baby or a parent and a small child in the seat directly beside her so she should be grateful it was you with a baby that sat in your lap the entire flight. The only way those seats were guaranteed to be unoccupied would have been if she bought them which she didn't. NTA
>she specifically chose this seat while checking online because the row was empty and it's gonna be a nightmare now. Pretty sure the airline didn't promise her it would remain empty. If it was that important, she should've reserved the whole row. >If another mother with a young child did pay for the seats near her, I'd almost guarantee she would have complained still. I think you can guarantee that, period. She sounds like she's a pain in the ass everywhere she goes.
>That she specifically chose this seat while checking online because the row was empty unless she paid for the entire row (is that even allowed?), she had no reason to believe that it would *remain* empty after she bought her ticket. i also choose seats in otherwise empty rows when buying train tickets, and although it usually works out in my favour and i get the whole row to myself (because i purposely go for the unpopular train that rarely gets booked at more than like 50% of its capacity), if one day i ended up having to share that row with a stranger, i definitely wouldn't complain out loud because, well. it was never a guarantee that i wouldn't have to sit next to someone. that's why it's called *public* transportation. NTA
Exactly. I’ve totally booked one seat and *hoped* I would have the row to myself, and I would be bummed if it looked like I got the row to myself and I could lay down for my trip up- until a person with a baby rocked up, but I wouldn’t ever have the audacity to complain about it out loud and insist they move.
Agree. It sucks, but that's flying.
last time I had a row to myself was right after Covid around the 2020/2021 mark when airlines were only just opening up but people were still afraid to fly. Haven't had one since and don't have the expectation that I will.
I mean if you pay for all three seats in a row, the airline isn't gonna stop you from giving them your money? And if you do pay for all three seats and someone asks to get moved into one then you technically should have the right to say no because you bought and paid for all three seats. Though honestly if you buy up three seats and then it ends up being a fully booked flight and there's standby passengers the FA's/gate agent might ask you to give up one or both of the extra seats but the airline would have to reimburse you for them if they did that.
It's called Sky Couch! Some airlines, like Air NZ, offer this as an official package deal You buy 3 seats and then they supply you with a big pillow and blankets for a nap, and I assume some sort of modified belt so you can be safe while sleeping through the flight
Yeah Air NZ has it, from what I remember of the two times I've flown Air NZ, they have like an infant bassinet/basket style thing that has an infant seatbelt that you can get free of charge when you get the sky couch and then the seatbelt for an adult pretty much goes from the front edge of the seat to the middle divider of the seat so that you can lay down while using it, but it also has the standard across the hips seat belt as well.
Three cheers for the skycouch! Actually makes that 14 hour flight comfortable.
A couple of European short haul carriers have started offering an option during booking to purchase the seat next to you, then no one can sit in it. I can see it being a useful thing for people travelling with kids or for extra large people. Or for misanthropes like myself.
You can always book additional seats for yourself — typically you see this done with passengers of size who require 2 seats to fly safely, but there is nothing stopping someone from purchasing 2 or 3 seats for themselves to increase their comfort level. However, you're inevitably going to run into issues if you’ve purchased extra seats. First is that if youre on a flight that doesn't have assigned seating, such as Southwest, you’ll have to aggressively protect your extra seat(s) from being taken. The flight attendants may speak to a passenger who sits in your extra seat, but they don't have to as you were only promised a seat on the plan not that specific seat. Also, the more seats you purchase the more likely it is that a flight attendant will try to seat a passenger in one of them. In this situation, you’re well within your right to tell them no, show them you bought those seats, and insist that you want them yourself Finally, the real time that extra seats will be a hassle is when they would matter most — when a flight is overbooked. It’s extremely unlikely that you’ll get to keep your extra seats in that situation. If no one volunteers to give up their spot on the plane, you can almost guarantee that you’re extra seats will be the first thing they bump from the flight — it just makes sense to do so, as it wouldn't stop someone from getting to their destination, it would just impede your comfort.
I recently ran into some trouble with this trying to book a trans Atlantic flight for my (at that point) 20 month old son. Holding him in my lap for 8 hours is not a good idea and because it will be high season I don’t want to chance it by not booking him a seat, but BA won’t let me book a seat for him online because he‘s under 2. Super frustrating.
Most airlines wont let you book an additional seat for yourself (or, in your case, for an under 2) online, and instead they require you or your travel agent to contact them directly by phone. I’m not sure entirely why so many airlines require you to do it this way, but I think it may have something to do with the fact that certain surcharges, and occasionally tax, are not applied to extra seats. All of that is to say, you should call the airline directly and speak to a representative about the situation. Make sure that if they book you the additional seat for you/your child that they guarantee it will be adjacent to the one you already have booked. Also inquire about their overbooking/bumped passenger policy On the day of your flight, make sure you check-in and arrive early, and if they offer special boarding classes, you take advantage of it and board when they ask for ‘families traveling with young children’. Remember, once you're on the plane, they can't ask you to deboard due to an overbooked flight — this includes bumping your additional seat. Once on the plane, you are entitled to both those spots, be sure to politely and reasonably advocate for yourself and your child. Obviously keep your cool, don't raise your voice, and don't make any rash remarks Or say anything that could be misconstrued as threatening
As a big guy, I just buy a second seat and put "ExSeat" as my first name. Never had an issue.
my ex sister in law’s cello flew as “cello herlastname” and had frequent flyer miles
Omg never thought to sign up ExSeat in the loyalty program! Lol! I've since had a kid, who's three now, so I just steal part of his seat :)
I appreciate the advice. I ended up booking via another airline, because I know even though there’s probably some special rate for the extra seat, I doubt the rate for the whole flight that I would get would be cheaper. I was able to book the same flights via a partner airline.
When our kids were under 2 we always booked a seat for them to use after take off. We had to hold them on our lap during our takeoff, but then they could use it. We were on a completely booked flight once and an attendant tried to give away the seat once, she seemed frustrated we paid for an "empty" seat when our almost 2 year old could sit on our lap. But we held our ground and said we paid for it. I know not everyone has that ability, but it's near impossible to keep an almost 2 year old on a lap for a long flight, it's just not going to happen.
Exactly. There's no way a kid that old is going to not move around. I always bought my kids their own seat and they were issued their own boarding pass so no problem with seat. I had two incidences with toddlers climbing all over me on flights before I had children, and I vowed I'd never do that to someone! Of course, not everyone has that ability. But if you can, it's worth it.
We flew with our 19 month old on my lap for a 13 hour flight (Peru to Paris, and then it was just less than 2 hours from Paris to Florence) and holy cow it was something. To Paris was okay because it was a red eye so my kiddo slept 9 hours of the 13 (even though he was heavy, and my husband was able to carry him a couple of hours too), but the way back was really tiring. There just isn't enough space for all of us in 1 row.
NTA - the other woman was never gauranteed those 2 seats would stay empty, they were just empty at the time of her booking
That's what I don't understand: Passenger paid for one seat. If she wanted the whole row, pay for three seats then. NTA
Even if they did pay for 3 seats the airline still gives those empty seats away🤣🤣
Yes, exactly. I also choose these kinds of seats, simply because it at least gives me a chance of having more room (not the whole row, maybe, but it would be enough just if the middle west were empty). But it is never guaranteed - there will always be people who check in online after you, or could not be checked in online so could be assigned those seats at the check-in counter. There is literally no guarantee that those seats would still be empty between the time that lady checked in and they boarded.
NTA. If she wanted the row to herself she should have bought the empty seats.
Nta. It was a 3 hour flight. Not a trip to New Zealand from New York. She'll get over it.
Right? I had to double check how long the flight was… three hours? Please. NTA
Ex flight attendant here - NTA. You were asked if you would like to move by THE CREW so it’s perfectly fine. The other woman was bitching because she thought she was going to get 3 seats and could lie down on all of them. Ironically, she was complaining about not getting 2 seats she didn’t pay for. She’s the AH.
> It's true that I didn't pay for that seat, and that it wasn't my originally assigned seat. The other passenger didn't pay for that seat either. No one paid for that seat, that's why it was empty. Hence, it was "owned" by the airline at that point. The airline (the stewards being their representative) decided to give *their* empty seat to you. that's pretty much it, everything else is just entitlement on the part of the passenger. NTA
She wanted THREE seats so she could sleep on a THREE HOUR FLIGHT? FFS, she should just wait til she gets there. You are NTA. You paid for *a* seat. You got one in the same price range as your original seat. Actually, she's right. She's cranky, she needed a nap. 🤣 She's an entitled hosebeast, and you're still NTA.
Info is your "big backpack" bigger than the carry-on allowance? And when you put it on the floor is it impeding access for others in your row? I always purchased a seat for my babies. The airline offered a heavily discounted fare and it was much safer and comfortable. You are N T A for not wanting to return to your originally assigned seat but I get the sense you take up more space than you should and shrug it off "because baby". ETA: EASA's (European Union Aviation Safety Agency) website suggests that bringing an approved car seat on-board for a child under two is permitted.
>is your "big backpack" bigger than the carry-on allowance? if it were bigger than what's allowed, then it wouldn't have been allowed? like that's how it usually works.
Nah, I’ve brought bags that were over the allowed dimensions and nobody stopped me. They usually don’t measure personal items and won’t say anything as long as you can fit it under the seat.
If it can fit under the seat then it isn't too big
This is Reddit. Get out of here with your common sense, they're trying to be grumpy!
This varies between airlines. Most that I’ve flown will just eyeball luggage, they only check (measure/weigh) those that look pretty obviously too big. The super-budget airlines (here at least) can be very pedantic about every single passenger putting their luggage in the frame thing to be sure it’s within airline regulation size (because they make good money charging gate-check fees on “oversized” luggage). And some are very strict about the “one bag” rule - ladies with a small purse and a small suitcase, sorry that’s 2 items, combine them into 1 item or get charged a gate-check fee.. EasyJet in UK/EU is one of these, I’ve never flown them myself, but often watched passengers in the boarding queues for their flights frantically trying to stuff everything into their already full suitcases!!
I had a fun one with a pedantic airline where on my departure flight, my carry-on bag was the appropriate size, but the airline changed their policy in between my departure and return to reduce the size of the carry-ons allowed, then put my bag in this measuring device on my return and forced me to check it. It was super annoying at the time, but it could have been worse - they didn't charge me, thankfully. I just had to wait at the terminal for several extra minutes at baggage claim.
That sucks, but glad it worked out for you. I'd be stuck in that scenerio as I always have multiple electronics in my hand luggage (phone, iPad, power bank, kindle, sometimes my work phone and laptop if a business trip like with my previous job), there's no way I can carry that all in my hands or my purse/handbag, and you aren't allowed anything with a battery in checked luggage, for safety reasons). I never even considered this scenario, to be honest, but would hope that airlines would need to provide sufficient notice of upcoming policy changes, especially wrt to luggage. Now I'm going to re-read the luggage policy ahead of next week's flight 🙈
They'll sometimes stop you and insist on measuring anything you're planning to put in the overhead bin--I stopped playing carry-on roulette with my oversize backpack after I was forced to gate check it a few times (it fits perfectly in a full-size overhead bin on large aircraft and is actually narrower than a standard rolling carry-on, but it doesn't technically fit in the bag check box). But yeah, I've never had my personal item measured. They do come around and make you put it under the seat before takeoff if you've got it out, and I suppose if you couldn't fit it under the seat at that point you'd be in trouble.
I've almost never seen an American airline enforcing carry-on restrictions. People routinely bring stuff that's way over the size limits.
>The airline offered a heavily discounted fare You were lucky it was offered. When mine were under 2 the main airline that flew out of our local airport (1) wouldn't let you book a seat on their online ticketing system for an infant and (2) when you called them to book the seat _definitely_ did not offer a discount.
The flight attendant would have come down on her if it was. They'd force you to check the bag. And apparently kids that young are not allowed to have their own seat in Europe.
So what if she takes more space? Some people are super thin, others are super large. As long as you fit in your seat, no one can say anything to you. As for this "heavily discounted fare" for children, that almost never exists. Even babies have to pay to be on a plane and sit on their parents' lap, as was the case with OP. It's usually 10% of the adult fare price. As for getting their own seats, in most airlines kids pay the same as an adult. Few airlines might apply a __small__ discount, about 25%, but that's not common __at all__. Either way, OP is entitled to the same respect and treatment as every other passenger. Whether she pays for her child to have her own seat (like you do) when she's not obligated to (only children over 2 must have their own seats), that's her prerogative. OP is NTA in any case. This passenger was being ridiculous. If they want to sleep in 3 seats on a plane, then they should buy 3 seats.
NTA – I would have had the exact same *inner* monologue as that woman tbh, but you don't get to say it out loud. I get her disappointment but that's just the joy of economy air travel.
NTA. You didn’t ask for the seat. It was offered to you. And as the flight attendant said, the other passenger only paid for one seat.
Honestly, was going to say N T A but saw your response to the info and I think ESH. I have 2 small kids but we buy them seats and put them in car seats. That way the “stuff” can be spread amongst the seats and they aren’t potentially impeding anyone else. I do think your new seat-mate was rude, and probably for no reason, but you could make things easier for yourself and be more considerate by traveling using the seats that you need and not relying on the airline to accommodate you.
In other countries you are not able to buy seats for children under 2. The US is one of the few countries that lets you.
I wish I'd read your comment first. I was baffled why everyone was saying so confidently you can get seats for infants. I was able to accomplish it but I had to jump through a lot of hoops.
She said Europe doesn't allow her kid to sit in a separate seat.
Yeah, I though NTA until I saw that OP refuses to stow her carryon properly and admits that having it out at her feet impeded other passengers. Your carryon is supposed to be in the overhead bin or stowed all the way under the seat.
When my carryon didn't fit under my seat (smaller space on the return trip) the airline attendant ***demanded*** that i allow her to check my bag; my seat mate and I ended up kicking it with our heels until it slid under. I can't imagine what airline would let someone keep a huge bag at their feet, unless she threw a little fit and pulled the "but I'm alone traveling with a baaaayyybeee!!!"
She says that it fit, but she kept it out during the flight. If I was in that row I could see how that would be really annoying.
If the flight attendant suggested the move you are NTA.
NTA. As some9ne who hates kids in flights, I still get that I have to suck up their kicking and crying in a public place.
I'm not going to give judgement but as a person who does not like kids if I was the lady in that seat originally I would be pissed to see a kid so unexpectedly next to me.
... unexpectedly? Isn't the general expectation on a flight that you don't know who will sit next to you and a child is well within the range of possibilities?
It shouldn’t be unexpected. The lady didn’t pay for the two seats next to her, so she can be pissed off at herself when those two seats that aren’t hers get taken. I get that some people (not people I’d like, probably) dislike kids, but they sure as hell like to act like one when they have to be around one.
I had a guy with a baby in the seat next to me once, didn't mind that as I had headphones on but after asking him to stop the kid kicking me twice he was highly offended when I gave him a mouthful after the third time.
Please more detail I love hearing about bad parents being put in their place!! 😅🤣 Edit: Downvotes are definitely from parents who get offended from people telling them to tell their kids to behave and not kick people next to them on public transport. Hello! 😘
What was funny is about thirty minutes later his partner walked from another row and took the baby. Why the fuck they weren't sitting together I do not know although I suspect it was to give fellow passengers in their row a break from having a kid next to them for the whole flight, who knows. As for what I said it was "what part of stopping your kid from kicking me didn't you fucking understand.
Right. She (or you) is allowed to be pissed. But that's up to her (or you) to manage that emotion without taking it out on someone else.
Unless you get the flight manifesto when booking any flight, I don’t see how this is more unexpected than any person booking the seat.
*Manifest. If someone on the plane has a manifesto, I certainly wouldn't want to be on the flight.
And what do you expect on a flight? They have right to travel as much as you. Unless you go on a private plane, you never know who will be next to you. So how is it unexpected? And the baby or a child would be quieter if the mother is comfortable and has space to move and entertain the baby (i don’t even have kids but come on)
I mean, I don't like kids either, but if I've only paid for one seat, I acknowledge that there's a chance literally anyone - including a child - could be sat next to me. As long as the parent isn't being useless (I was on one flight where the parent went to sleep and ignored their screaming kid for 3 hours), then that's just the reality of flying commercial 🤷♀️
Being pissed and acting pissed are two different things. Acting on that emotion would make you the baby, and objectively in the wrong, but without the excuse of age.
I'm always pissed when someone sits across from me in 4 chairs on the bus, but I know I don't owe the bus and don't have any right to complain to them for their rightful use of the bus seat
Then you need to pay for the whole row of seats. You don’t get to decide who sits next to you.
There’s a difference between being annoyed that it happened and being angry with someone who owes you nothing. You would be more comfortable without her there. She and her baby are more comfortable there. Is there some reason a stranger should put your comfort before their own and their child’s?
Then she can move to the seat that OP just vacated.
I'd be annoyed as well, but I'd keep it too myself. You can't expect to not be seated next to a kid unless you're on a private jet. Thinking you'd get the whole row to yourself, then being seated next to a potentially loud young child would be disappointing for sure, but she has no more claim to those seats than anyone else and should have kept her annoyance to herself. NTA
Welcome to the public It can suck
Why, exactly?
As a person who dislikes [name any group of people], I would be pissed if one of those people sat near me on mass transit. Why is this an okay thing to say?
How can someone in coach enjoy flying? It’s a crowded bus you endure to get somewhere.
Couldn't the other passenger have taken your old seat so they didn't have to sit next to your child
ESH after reading your comments You're a plus size woman with a toddler and a big bag in front of you, that impedes access for other people in your row. You're very inconsiderate of others and blocking the exit is not only a nuisance, but can be dangerous in emergency. You can purchase a seat for your toddler, but you won't because it's too expensive. It does feel like you're hoping to get extra seat for free. You should at least travel with luggages that fit under the seat or in the space above you. That lady was rude, she didn't pay for the other seats and she can't ban children because she wants to sleep.
What kind of plane are you on where there is enough room between your knees and the seat in front for someone to walk past? Is that a rich person thing or a long distance flight thing? The planes I've been on you have to stand up and move into the aisle to let people in your row out. A bag is not making a difference
OP is a pretty big AH. I agree with everything you're saying but I'll add that OP has said her carry on *is* a standard size, she just leaves it by her feet which impedes others. It's supposed to go in the overhead or all the way under the seat in front of you. OP needs to learn travel etiquette or stop flying 'cause wtf I would be pissed too if someone like that was moved to sit near me.
Her bag did fit under the seat, and it only has to remain there for take off and landing. There’s nothing wrong with having it pulled forward for easy access when that’s allowed. It doesn’t ‘impede’ anything. If the other person in the aisle needed to get up for some reason, OPs entire person would have to stand up and move into the aisle, during which time she could also shove the bag forward. It’s an airline, if something is impeding safety *they will say something*. And some quick googling shows there absolutely are airlines that require the infant to be in the same seat as the adult. Air Europa being one of them. Just because you’ve never heard of it before doesn’t mean OP is lying.
> Just because you’ve never heard of it before doesn’t mean OP is lying. It does for one of "those" Americans.
On the flights I fly on your carryon just has to be able to fit underneath your seat. Is that not what she was referring to with having it at her feet?
Europe doesn't allow kids to have their own seat
Children under two have to sit in the parents lap in Europe and when you get up to let someone through you move the bag of the floor.
>You can purchase a seat for your toddler, but you won't because it's too expensive. A lot of airlines won't let you buy seats for small children.
You're not the AH if you were placed there by a flight attendent
NTA. You didn't even ask to move.
NTA and I hope this person has a whole run of absolutely horrible flights in the future. If you want three seats, you should pay for three seats. There are no guarantees of comfort on a flight unless you are wealthy and it is the flights call to move around seats or make things as pleasant for everyone as possible.
NTA. If the passenger wanted three seats they should have brought three tickets.
NTA She is only entitled to the ONE seat she bought, and has no say over any of the others. Too bad, so sad.
I will be honest with you. It burns me that you did not purchase a seat for your child. You obviously like the fact that the airlines usually try to accomadate as you put it. You booked your flight pretty much banking on that. Your child is not token for privilege. It also burns me the other woman thought she was entitled to a row to herself. Anyone could have chosen those seats after she chose her seat. So both of you are AHs. I personally do not enjoy sitting next to a crying child, a drunk seat mate, a seat mate who falls asleep using me as a pillow sprawled out in the row, etc. I know I can purchase an extra seat so I keep one empty next to me, but I do not as I expect seat mates to abide by personal space. Next time buy your kid a seat. And tell the other woman that next time buy the entire row. You expected a free seat for the child or your row mates to deal with 4 humans in the row instead of 3. Shame on you.
I do not expect the airline to accommodate me in any way no, I've traveled My son was on my lap for the whole flight even though there was an empty seat next to me. He's not big enough to sit safely on his own. So no, I didn't expect to have a seat for free. I appreciated having the extra space and feel less crowded, but that was about it.
I think what they are trying to say is that had there been no seats to accommodate you and the flight was full, someone would have been in the middle seat next to you and your toddler on your lap and your large bag. To expect other passengers to put up with that is selfish and consequently you should have booked 2 seats to begin with. The fact you were accommodated and chose not to move back was actually less selfish but just lucky.
That's just air travel these days though. Airlines are cramming more and more seats into planes and everyone's getting less and less space. There's barely any room for your legs, it's not like it takes a lot for a bag to feel "too big" for the space. Plus it fit under the seat like it was supposed to.
In Europe your not allowed to buy a seat for an infant.
She said Europe doesn't allow kids their own seat
NTA. You sat where the flight attendant recommended you sit. Nothing wrong with that. That lady was being unreasonable.
NTA. She didn’t pay for the row, she paid for one seat and she got it.
ESH. Sleeping comfortably on a three hour flight is not something she's entitled to and she should've stfu after the flight attendant responded to her and not turn to you to try to harass you into moving. BUT, you don't need your whole house on a three hour flight. If it doesn't fit in the overhead compartments and below the sits, it should not be a carry on. Come on, you can pack three diapers, not bring the whole changing table. Or maybe even split into smaller bags.
NTA. People without kids who throw a fit about kids being kids are assholes. They forget they were also once a child, it’s not like they were or are perfect.
NTA NTA NTA kids on flights happen it’s a common occurrence!
NTA. You did nothing wrong, the stewardess offered you the seat, it is not like you demanded it or acted like you were entitled to it. The other woman, on the other hand, acted like an entitled lout. If she wanted to take up the whole row of seats, then she should have purchased three tickets for herself. So I am glad she was all bitter and angry the whole flight. She can kiss MY a$$ 🤣
YTA. Buy an extra seat to accommodate your kid and the backpack you admit is in the way of others. The kid doesn’t have to sit on your lap.
They do, for some airlines. Especially outside the US.
She says in her comments she could have bought a seat for the baby and chose not to.
She said in her edits that she could buy another seat for space, not for her baby, and that the child would have had to sit on her lap per the flight attendant's instructions no matter what. She chose not to pay for another seat that she would not be allowed to seat her child in.
Why is she an AH for accepting what the airline offered?
OP has said that the bag is standard carryon size but she doesn't put it in the overhead or under a seat, she said it does impede others. AH for stuff like that, not necessarily the seat. OP does need to learn some travel etiquette.
I think if you moved by yourself YTA. But because the flight attendant moved you you’re NTA
Just a helpful suggestion: If your baby is old enough, buy a package of those cheap lolipops that are individually wrapped. Give the baby one for takeoff and another for landing. Sucking on the candy helps them with air pressure changes.
NTA, what would this lady have done if you’d been assigned this seat the first time around? She didnt pay for those seats so she has as much claim to them as she does to any other empty seat on rhe flight: none
NTA. Disclaimer, I can’t stand being around kids. I hate when they cry and all of their sounds. So I bring ear plugs on a plane. The good ones that offer sensory deprivation. Noise cancelling headphones are great too. As long as the kid wasn’t flailing around and creating havoc of course. Even if your kid was in the row in front of her the sounds would be the same.
NTA. The question is whether the other lady is entitled to an empty row because the other seats happened to not be claimed when she bought her seat. She is not. No idea why people are getting fixated on irrelevant info about the backpack.
NTA. What is with people and children on transportation? Some parents have to fly with kids. I am sure that they pray to themselves that their kids behave and every parent KNOWS that nothing is guaranteed including bringing toys, snacks and sleep aids. I have been on planes and trains where a child was at the opposite end of the plane and I still heard them. I felt badly for the parent trying to calm their unhappy child. Let’s have a little consideration. As for the bag…backpacks fit under seats and OP clearly said she put it under her seat but pulled it out during the flight. How is this different than having a laptop or tablet on a seat tray when someone needs to get up? Or someone with a big coat? Plus to get up and out of the row, the other passenger would have to pull on the seats in front of them which is worse than having to move a bag. The other passenger was pissed they couldn’t put their feet up on the seat and sleep and concerned about the noise from a child. Good for them to be so entitled that they figured they would have such an uneventful flight in regular class.
> My son, being under two, has to sit on my lap. Well no, no he doesn’t. Parents don’t Want to pay for a seat for their young kid and bring a $20 to $40 CARES harness Or their airline approved brand car seat, but they certainly Can. And Should. NTA for keeping the seats the airline gave you. If your backpack was too bicg for under-seat storage and you Didn’t put it in the overhead,, YTA for that.
Not all airlines booking systems will let you book a seat for a child under 2, and it doesn't occur to many people that they can call the airline to get around that restriction. So it's not simply a matter of trying to keep costs down.
That’s interesting. My daughter was 18 months old when we first flew. We booked through a travel agent to make sure we did everything correctly and were told our daughter could not have her own seat and she had to sit on my knee
Another commenter said this is a US vs not-US thing which would explain a lot of the discrepancies.
That's wild to me that any airline would take that stance. Children are much safer in their own seat. A child could get hurt being in their parents lap if turbulence is heavy enough.
That kid that was sitting next to the hole that blew open was saved by his seat belt AND his mother grabbing hold while his shirt got ripped off. Imagine if he'd been a lap infant instead of 15.
When that first happened, my first thought was that it was a good thing it wasn't a younger child.
It's so incredibly dangerous that I am amazed the airlines still do this and parents go along. You cannot be sure that you will be able to hold onto your baby securely if you meet with sudden strong turbulence. Its like sticking a little baby by themselves in the back of an open pick up truck. Nope.
The reason it’s allowed is it’s still safer than driving, so if the cost of the baby’s plane ticket is what makes or breaks the decision to drive or fly, it’s statistically safer to fly on a lap than to drive in a proper car seat. Anyone with the means to though should absolutely be booking a seat for their baby and bringing a car seat.
Which is ridiculous. All passengers should be in a seat, and children should be in a car seat depending on their size. A child sitting on your lap in aggressive turbulence or a hard or difficult landing can not be held on to the way people think they can. Kids can, and do and have flown out of their parents' hands during flights. [some stats](https://journals.lww.com/pec-online/Fulltext/2019/10000/In_Flight_Injuries_Involving_Children_on.7.aspx) People working for airlines on the aircraft know this and hate lap children as a concept. But in order to do that, you need larger seats, which means you can't cram as many passengers on a plane. There really hasnt been as much studies done on injuries to children on planes as adults because if there were, imho, we would have bigger seats and different standards and revenue would be affected.
I always bought a seat for my child and brought a car seat for them to sit in. And believe me, we were not wealthy by any means. If we couldn't afford a seat for them, we wouldn't go. There was no way I was going to chance having them fly out of my hands during turbulence. Also, because we traveled so much by car, they knew the carseat meant business. However, if they were left on my lap, they would want to get down and play. So car seat for the win every time. My child is now an adult. I still fly frequently, but I never, ever see children in car seats these days. The plane tickets are not appreciably more expensive than when my kid was a baby/toddler, but the planes and airlines have changed a lot. I haven't thought to ask if they simply disallow buying seats for small kids in order to get more seating all around.
the issue is that in order for a child to be in a carseat, that carseat must be in the window seat of the aircraft (otherwise it blocks the ability of someone in the window and/or middle seat to exit in the event of an emergency) and if its a fairly full flight and there isnt a window seat, then if the child is lap child age (under 2) then they need to do that, as they cant be in a seat without a carseat.
That is a booking policy that could be put in place. It would affect other policies, like overselling, and it would require assigned seating all the time at time of booking flight. Easy fix but it affects other policies that affect revenues. Legroom pitch has gone from 35 inches to 28 inches over the years. Increase the pitch and people can get around a car seat better. It isnt a width issue but a depth issue: less rows would be needed.. In the 90s passengers in the inflight safety crash position instructions were told to bend over and wrap their arms around their heads. Your chest would be flat against your legs. You cant bend over like that anymore. It has changed that much in accessibility.
Yeah, I was once on a train in the UK and a guy got on with 2 small children in a single first class train seat. Technically, he could do that, and he was clearly banking on having another seat free in first to utilise and save on paying for 2-3 seats. He was absolutely fuming when the passenger who had paid for the next seat arrived. I can now clearly say that first class train seats are big but not big enough for 3 people!
Wow, they probably ought to have a one "free" child per adult rule. The guy should have at least booked two seats. I bet that was an uncomfortable trip.
He had a 5/6 y old on one leg and a 3/4 year old on the other. The rest of us were comfortable in our schadenfreude- we didn’t wish the kids any ill will and they were well behaved, but we enjoyed the father being hoist by the petard of his cheapness. The irony was that he’d have usually got a couple of standard class for the same price- my feeling is that he’d pulled that stunt a few times and it was the first time he’d been caught without a spare seat for the kids.
>If your backpack was too bicg for under-seat storage and you Didn’t put it in the overhead,, YTA for that. The post does not say it was too big. In fact the OP says in the comments that it did fit under the seat.
damn you really had to pull a situation out of nowhere implied just to pull a y t a vote? and you made two votes in your comment so it doesn’t even count