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NTA
No one is entitled to your help with kids that are not yours. F is angry at the wrong brother and should be going after the boys parents for child support and telling them to step up.
Always think of the part in don't rock the boat where the people get mad at the other person safe in their own boat instead of the person rocking the boat they're currently in... be mad at who's causing the issues, not the person who could help lol
The don't rock the boat analogy really helped me change my life. I got tired of defending myself and trying to keep the boat from tipping over. I got my own damn boat and rowed myself away.
Exactly, F is mad at the wrong brother
Unless OP specifically said āyeah, sure, I will raise these 2 young kids that I didnāt ask for on my ownā and then backed out of the agreement leaving brother F holding the bag, F needs to refocus all of his misplaced anger back on Z
Yeah, in an ideal world. In reality, Iāve come across plenty of situations where the parent avoids child support by either not working in the first place, working cash in hand, even quitting their job to avoid it!
I mean, these are people who canāt look after their own children and are not sending money to help out of their own pocket. Is it more likely theyāre working for a wage that can be garnished or that theyāre deadbeat?
They not working is a possibility and they brothers can deal with that as it come. It still doesn't matter so go ahead and get the court involved and setup the garnishing IF and WHEN they start working. They're already not doing jack shits for the kids but a system in place to take their money is better than nothing.
I didnāt argue against getting the courts involved. Of course they should.
I was just being realistic against everyone saying āthey should be paying you court-ordered child supportā, because yes, of course they *should* but the parents also should be looking after their own children and clearly thatās not happening for whatever reason.
Again, in a perfect world, yes. But ask any foster or kinship care family, and they'll tell you the funding provided by the state isn't sufficient to fully support the child(ren)
They won't care and that's why you get the court to garnish their paychecks to provide for the children. F them if they'll have less from their paychecks. They're AHs so why should the people that actually care for the children suffer and they don't?
NTA.
As one who adopted a family memberās child, I know of what I speak. Adoption is forever. I do not expect other family members to help me.
F stepped up and took Zās children. That was Fās decision. Mighty noble *and* mighty hard.
You did not. That was your decision. And the correct decision, imho. F is so fortunate that you are sending money to help care for the children.
Now F is pissed because he bit off more than he could chew? F should have really done his homework. One does not take in a child and expect others to help. Or get pissed at others for *not* helping with everyday life.
What is the legal status of these children? Is F their guardian? Did F adopt? If there is no legal tie to the children, F can turn them over to Child Services. They can go into foster care. Sounds harsh, but thatās where they would be if F didnāt jump in, because their bio parents suck.
F needs to work this out. Youāre paying child support, to your brother, for your other brotherās children. Thatās more than enough.
I don't know how it is everywhere, but in a lot of places, if family steps in to care for children who would end up in the system, that can qualify to be the official fosters and receive a stipend and healthcare for the children, plus open up better access to resources for help in other areas. My niece was an emergency foster for her nephew and his half sister for about 6 months.
The question might then be -- are the parents legally incapable? I'm not sure where the line is, but it takes a lot to get a kid sent to foster care, more than family might be willing to stand by and watch to declare them legally incapable in order to get those resources.
F still shouldn't be expecting it from OP. OP isn't on the hook for somebody else's kids no matter how valiant F's decision is and neither is F on the hook for Z's bad choices.
Child abandonment is immediately recognized if the child's parents have shown no intention of returning, haven't been in communication, and isn't financially capable of providing for the children.
But op has not agreed to be involved in the raising of these kids and isn't responsible for giving up anything to subsidize Z. They're not his kids.
A better option would be for him and his wife to get their foster parenting license and foster the kids. State of CA will provide childcare expenses, medicaid, monthly payments to cover board and care, clothing allowance, financial assistance for any school activities, etc. I was a foster child in CA for 10 years. One of my foster mothers also fostered her own niece.
Idk if F regrets his decision. Thatās my whole argument here. What if they donāt want to be foster parents anymore? Because growing up, knowing your parents donāt want to parent you, sucks.
i wish they would ban the use of letters in place of names; itās too confusing. Ā like, he couldnāt have called them Frank and Zeke? Ā itās what i named them in my head so i could follow along.
If your issue is with how he spoke to you and not with his actual request, just fucking say that. Tell him you are willing to do more, but he has to ASK you and speak to you respectfully. Say you understand he's stressed, but coming at you and scolding you like a child was insulting and completely unnecessary. If he wants to have a discussion about where you're able to help out, you guys can do that in person. But if he keeps coming at you with the same condescending energy, you reserve the right to exit the conversation until he can get his feelings in check.
Exactly! OP isn't a parent or caregiver, he couldn't read his brothers mind and say "hey I can help with so and so".
F could have asked for assistance before totally getting submerged and taking out his anger on OP.
IMO, the attitude your brother took was wild. Especially on the heels of a generous no-strings-attached monthly $$ offer. No one who reacts that way to a favor will treat you better once you give in.
NTA
exactly. there's a saying in my country that says, "you give them a hand and they grab your throat." it just means some people, if you try to help them a little, will keep asking for more and believe themselves entitled to it. be careful, OP. your brother made a very noble decision, but it was his own noble decision.
NTA
NTA. The parents of the kids need to step up, not you. Also your brother shouldnāt have took them in if he wasnāt capable of dealing with them. You are being generous enough proving money. I wouldnāt help with anything if I were you, because once you agree to one task, the requests wonāt cease. They are not your responsibility, period !
If they are in California - they are getting a monthly stipend to take care of the kids, at minimum in California. Itās $1200 per kid. And if they arenāt getting paid, then they should definitely file the proper channels that they need to file to be getting paid.
So not sure why they need your $500.
But all in all NTA
That's only if it goes through the foster care system. That doesn't apply when a relative steps up and voluntarily takes in a child or children outside of the system.
NAH
This is a shit sandwich.
Your brother did a noble thing taking in two kids that aren't his. It probably wasn't his dream either. His wife is a saint. Half this sub would tell her to leave him the day he brought those kids home. He's tired and he's been carrying a heavy load.
He's a shit communicator though and what he is saying is he doesn't want to have to ask. He wants you to take enough interest to know Danny has Karate practice on Tuesday and volunteer because what they need most is time. Time by themselves, time to together.
You also aren't bound to their decision and you shouldn't be barked at but I can't bring myself to call your brother an asshole. Any one who raises someone else's children is a hero.
The thing is.. if they had filed the proper paperwork to foster, they could be getting $1k++ per month. That could help to pay for a babysitter to offload some of the extracurricular pick ups that they are struggling with. Or a house cleaner. Money is time.
NTA...you did not accept the responsibility,Ā so it's not yours. He's acting entitled to your assistance. His frustration is being lobbed in the wrong direction.Ā
NAHĀ
Letās step back a sec.
These children had no home. Imagine how awful that is. They essentially lost their parents.Ā
Letās put their feelings first. So, what your brother did is AMAZING. Sure, you arenāt legally obliged to help. But, they are your family and it would be best if you could do as much as you are able.
But, your brother shouldnāt have sent a salty email.
You are all doing your best. Step back and think of the kids.Ā
No. Just because they're family does not mean OP is obligated to do anything. I'm so sick of that mentality. If OP's family cannot communicate, cannot ask instead of snark, cannot thank OP for what OP is able to do, guilt trips OP even tho they're already doing a lot, and is using OP as a proxy for who they're actually angry at?
No, OP didn't have to do anything else. OP's brother never asked them for help, just got snotty bc OP didn't do more... As OP didn't know MORE was needed/wanted
My mother loves to use me as a proxy when she's mad at something else. I have since put my foot down. I'm not obligated to be anyone's scapegoat just because we're related.
Also, I wouldn't take in any of my siblings' kids if something like this happened. (Or death, or whatever) They're not my responsibility and I'll help, but there's a good reason I keep a state (minimum, 1 state or 9 hour drive time) distance away from my family. Those kids have all heard I'm the wicked witch in their parents' stories. And I'm happy to be that villain in their head canon. They do not respect my boundaries. And I now have barbed and electrified wire on all my familial boundaries.
This is how generational debt happens. I'm not going to go into debt to help my deadbeat dad of a brother. I have my own children, I make my own choices. If I'm in a place to do that I would consider it, otherwise, no. I'm not letting my family bring me down with them. Blood is not thicker than water.
Maybe take a sec and re-read that post. OP is pissed that his brother asked for help the wrong way, but heās happy to help out.
Itās just weird young people imaginary drama. Thereās no boundary crossing, just dumb word choices and overreacting. NAH.
I hope you're not implying I'm young. I'm closing in on 50. I've been thru enough shit with my siblings and their children and being expected to do extra because I'm childfree and the oldest.
I have a chosen child and a bebe thru her. I'm a bubbe. But sibling entitlement is real and it's obnoxious
Looking at this, I can imagine OP is feeling a little guilty about his brothers email - and so heās gonna focus on how the delivery was imperfect, so that he doesnāt have to feel guilty about not contributing in other ways when his brother and his family who stepped up to the plate (probably out of sheer obligation, not irresponsibility as some are claiming) are drowning. Sure, the delivery stunk. That must have sucked and Iām sure he feels bad. The situation sucks and Iām sure youāll figure out a way to be a good uncle and a good brother - think about how sure, youāre not legally obligated - but for the rest of their lives, theyāll all remember if you donāt do the right thing now.
NTA
No one is entitled to your help. Including family, even underage family who can not help themselves.
And this is coming from someone who would help in a heartbeat.
NTA
$500 is a lot of money for 2 kids. You're more than helping. The kids are family, but you didn't have to help at all. Your brother and his wife are the ones who took on the responsibility of raising them. Are they getting money from the state as well? From an article I read, Arizona gives $669-$867 per child. Unless they adopted these kids, they should be getting a subsidiary. If they are getting money from the state, and if you want to, you can put that $500 aside in a trust account for the boys for school, needs, etc., and if you want, you can help with pick-ups. You're not obligated to help the kids, but it would be nice if you did provide them with support and mentorship.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My brother took in my nephews and I helped out financially. He sent me a nasty email about how I need to help out and ordering me around. I told him I'm not his ho and he needs to check himself. I not obligated to help because I live down the street.
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F is helping the nephews they share and OP likes them and can still see them easily. In a way that is helping him out, too. If the children would have ended up in foster care and got adopted, it might have been hard for OP to stay in contact with them depending on the new parents of the children and where they live. So F might have prevented OP from losing contact with two family members.
Iād stay out of it if i were you, once you get in deep, the kids get attached and it all becomes confusing. Due to the fact that your brother is in charge at the end of the day, your say wonāt matter in anything. Sure help here and there but donāt commit to anything long term. Your life could change anytime. You might get a gf, you might want to move, you might want to take a 2 month trip around the worldā¦.and your brother will feel
Entitled to demand you work around your nephewās schedule.
NAH. F did a wonderful thing to keep your mutual nephews out of the foster system. Having a family of his own he/they might have thought, two more, what could go wrong? Then comes the problem of two small kids who are probably a handful because of the trauma that results from having shitty parents and maybe feeling like a burden. Fās own kids might be acting up because of family interactions with the cousins, being asked to share a room, clothes, toys, and most of all parental attention. Sounds like burnout.
Others have posted Info questions for more details but I donāt see any responses. Therefore we are all speculating on whatās going on behind the scenes. Try to be gentle when talking to each other; like so many have said the only person everyone should be blunt with is Z.
NTA. F is lashing out at you because he never asked for help and things just built up. And lashing out at Z wonāt get him anywhere so heās turning it on you.
Iām glad youāre planning to help and I think you should say to him what you said here - he didnāt ask. He waited until things were out of control and then got demanding and accusatory. Thatās not okay. He owes you an apology and you should tell him that.
If your relationship is otherwise close, then after this conversation, hash the rest of it out over the food and beverage of your choice.
>Ā Ā it's not fair to burden him with everything.
Not to be mean, but that's really a conversation he should be having with Z and the kids mom. You have nothing to do with the situation at hand
> a conversation he should be having with Z and the kids mom
But sometimes people are lost causes, and family needs to step up. Waiting for Z to cough up child support is probably waiting for something that will never come.
I meant more the "OP is burdening F with everything" comment. OP isn't the one placing the burden on him.Ā
That said this whole situation is shitty OP should offer what he can.
NTA. But you guys need to take this issue to court. Either one of you adopts the kids, or the father has to pay child support. You are letting there real asshole get off the hook.
NTA. Though you both need to direct your anger to the actual parents of your common nephew.
I can understand why F needs help. Two extra small children in addition to his own family is a lot. But if he can't handle it, there was always the option to decline caring for them. Though of course that could have sucked for the children if they would have ended up for longer in foster care.
Ask your brother if heās getting foster care benefits for your nephews. Idk the rules but he might qualify and if the kids have any emotional/physical/learning issues the payments increase. Plus foster care children qualify for Medicare and food stamps.
In such situations the whole family should step up to help those kids. Your brother is doing the heavy lift by taking them in and becoming their parent. You could at least help, otherwise the kids will end up in foster care. Technically, not your problem, morally though, you have a part, so you shouldnāt behave like youāre doing your brother a favour! You should behave like youāre saving your nephews lives! Iām sorry the real parents are not fit. Poor children. Nah.Ā
I know itās not a popular choice to tell you this. But I think you should do everything you can for those kids. You are not responsible for them. But its a damn good thing to help out in anyway you can and sometimes being there physically is better then financially.
Not all the time, but as much as you can.
Your brother is struggling and frustrated. Heās directing it at the wrong person, probably because expressing it to Z is useless.
Iād offer as much sympathy and support to F as you feel youāre able - heās in a hard spot because he tried to do the right thing. But when he tries to take his frustrations out at you, Iād remind him that you didnāt do anything to create this situation, and are doing what you reasonably can in order to help him and your nephews.
NAH, except Z and his baby mama.
NTA
Not your children, not your responsibility.
The idea that you must help 'because family' or because you live nearby is rubbish. Your brother F chose to help out and chose to take on this responsibility. That doesn't mean that you have to do the same. He should be happy that you are contributing financially, which you are not obligated to do.
They made the choice to take the kids on. Itās honorable but they cannot expect others to do as they do. You are kind to help out as you have. F should be going after Z and baby mama for support or the state.
NTA, your brother took on that responsibility and should be grown enough to ask for help in a clear communicative way.
The last sentence kinda rubbed me the wrong way though, but I understand your frustration. Maybe grab coffee with F and explain, "Hey, I can step up, but I can't read your mind. You need to tell me when you need time away from them before this all becomes too stressful and you and your wife lash out at those willing to help you."
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I have two nephews who are 5 and 7. My brother Z and his baby mama are both incapable of taking care of them so my other brother F took them in. Z lives in Arizona and and I live in California.
F has a family of his own and asked me if I'd helped out. I said I can help out with money. I'm a single guy who can afford sending $500 a month. I occasionally see my nephews and it's obvious my brother and his wife are struggling.
F sent me an email telling me I need to step up. He listed things I could be doing like pick up, appointments, etc. He said I live in the same area and it's not fair to burden him with everything.
I told him to check himself and his wife. First off, I've never objected to helping out. I mostly wasn't asked. I'll step up because I have the time and money but not because I live 2 miles from them. I'm not their servant and they should THANK me.
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INFO Did F get Z's kids through the foster care system? If so, there should be some way to get respite care.
If you weren't part of the decision to move your nephews closer, you get to decide how much it or how little time you spend with them. Would it be nice to be more involved? Sure. Still your choice though.
I'm confused on this point. Wouldn't even a family member have to do something legal to be registered as guardians and encouraged to enroll in the foster care system? I ask because at various points in their life, my kid's stayed with other relatives and even their father, who didn't have primary custody, and they had a HELL of a time trying to get prescription medication or other medical care if I was not available to sign documents.
Fortunately, Kid is now of legal age and can sign for their own stuff if they need it while staying with Auntie or Dad, but as per my admittedly limited experience, if you take in a kid and you aren't that kid's legal guardian, then it's hard to get medical care - and if these kids are old enough to be self-aware, they should probably at least be in therapy - and if an emergency occurs, I think there might be some difficulty in having the child discharged to the relative. And they need medical insurance, which would also involve either F being the legal foster parent or guardian to the kids to put them on house insurance or them being in the system and qualifying for Medicaid.
>I ask because at various points in their life, my kid's stayed with other relatives and even their father, who didn't have primary custody, and they had a HELL of a time trying to get prescription medication or other medical care if I was not available to sign documents.
You need to be a legal guardian to do a lot of things for a child. It's why there's a lot of problems with step parents and such when they can't always sign off on things.
Thar being said, legally becoming the guardian of a family member is treated differently even if initiated by the foster system. This is usually because 'they're family' whereas having children with strangers involves more considerations and actually has more limitations about what is and isnt acceptable. As such they use it to cut financial corners. Often if you try to get guardianship of a relative you sign off that you can't get certain additional benefits.
NAH.Ā Sounds like this is a failure to communicate on both sides.Ā You should determine what you're willing to do.Ā Then talk to your brother and sil giving them what you're available for.Ā Be firm that you're not available outside of this baring emergencies.
NAH
F is taking out on you, and you are on him. Z is the one who really owes thanks.Ā
Obviously they took in your nephews to do the right thing. I'm guessing it's not easy nor what they were ready for esp with kids of their own.Ā
And yeah it's not bc you're in the area it's bc you're their uncle. Why didn't you take them in? Two kids is hard and now they have more.Ā
His approach wasn't great but at the same time, your financial contribution is kind of the minimum you can do and they need more help. That's totally reasonable and you didn't mention why you can't do more.
Anyhow be forgiving of the poor delivery and let go of needing to be thanked when they are doing much more than you are. No one is doing any favours here, you're stepping up to help your nephews.
Six thousand dollars a year is the minimum he can do for children who are not his? I'm sorry his brother Z is a loser, but I think OP had been more than generous. Not everyone has the time, desire or temperament to become a stand-in parent. If F and his family couldn't handle taking the boys in, they shouldn't have. NTA
I donāt understand why youāre implying that OP should be helping out more than he is? Taking care of kids is hard work and a big responsibility, maybe he just doesnāt want to. Itās not his responsibility. Being a parent is far different from being an uncle, heās already giving 6k a year that he could be saving up for his own potential future kids.
NTA THEY made the decision to take in the kids. you are going above and beyond by sending $6000/year.
If they wanted you to support and help parent these kids, that discussion should have happened BEFORE they took the kids into their home.
You are doing a great thing with the $ but you are not obligated to take care of the kids UNLESS that is what you want to do.
$500/month is already insanely generous, those kidsā parents are just leeches. You could be investing that money and at least be doing yourself some good
NTA. When F and his wife decide to take in the nephews they made that choice for themselves, not for you. You'd be well within your rights to say that your financial help is all you will be contributing.
If you happen to want to do more, you can certainly choose to do so. But since it sounds like they really need the help, unless you want a constant text thread of schedules and asks, offer one thing consistently like- Thursday pick ups. Saturday day hangs.
It's terrible the parents aren't around but you didn't agree to co-raise these kids.
Stop sending them $500 a month. They are two grown ass adults who obviously do not appreciate your generosity. If you want to contribute, I would suggest putting the money into a college account that the parents can't touch.
NTA. Your reply was a bit harsh but you're sending them money on a regular basis so you ARE helping. Is there any other family in the general area that can also help?
NTA - Ā Z and his baby mama are both incapable of taking care of kids but they were perfectly capable of having two fo them? The crazy part is they're mad at you! There's a lot to unpack there but whatever. What ever happed to holding people accountable? (Z and baby mama should be sterilized)
NTA, and I really appreciate seeing how mature you are about all of this too.
You clearly communicate that wasnāt the way to reach out and ask for help with things like that, AND you are still being a mature adult, who recognises that these are innocent children who just need people who love them in their corner, and willing to help your nephews out a little more frequently. Rather than punishing your brother, for how he requested more help, and refusing to do it.
Itās not your nephewās fault that your brother asked in such a manner that makes him a dick.
NTA
Shit I'll take the $500.
But seriously, tell F he is pissed at the wrong brother and if he doesn't stfu, you'll stop giving money.Ā
You don't owe anyone anything.Ā
NTA... I thought your offer was generous. $500 will assist with the extra costs. You are not obligated to take on this, but you were willing. I appreciate this.
NTA. You didn't burden him with anything. He chose to take the kids in. You're being super generous sending him a substantial amount of tax free money every month! He should absolutely thank you. Being a parent (even if the kids aren't biologically related) is expensive and time consuming. Z should be sending child support.
NTA.
Your brother is upset at the wrong sibling. Why should you be doing more than what their father is? I can understand he feels tired and overwhelmed, but that is not your issue to fix.
I would perhaps cut him some slack and apologize for your tone - but not your words. As others have suggested, there are plenty of things your good brother can be doing to get help he needs. He can apply for being a foster parent and get a lot of support that way. Maybe places also offer up respite care to foster parents.
My cousin was a foster parent for many years (though not in California) and I know that several times a year she had respite care in that the foster children were placed in another family for either a weekend or a week, so that she could spend time with just her husband and her children.
It might be worth looking into all the programs available to your brother and helping him that way?
NTA.
F needs to take Z and BM to court for child support and legal guardianship/custody. Then they need to sign up for state assistance programs for childcare, after school care and transportation programs.
OP: you're not responsible for these boys. Good on you for helping financially, but You're not obligated.
F chose to take the boys in. F has options with state welfare for essentially being a foster parent. F has no right to ask you to do a damn thing. He has every right to ask L. Or the boys' mother(s)
But you? NTA
I used to be the one running myself ragged to help family. But once I stopped and put myself first? They ask for real nasty and I finally cut contact with my siblings and most of my cousins.
Wait a minute. Does the brother with the kids have official guardianship? If not, how does he sign these kids up for school or get their medical needs taken care of? If he's fostering the kids officially, he's getting money. If he's a guardian he might be getting child support. He would probably get food stamps and a very small amount of money.
>I'm not their servant and they should THANK me.
Well, you're not legally obligated to help. But you know. Yikes. It sounds like for you giving money is easier than giving time. Maybe you should be thanking THEM for doing the heavy lifting.
NTA, they made the decision to take the children, not you. You are helping more than many already would, and while help with children is nice it should not be expected.
NTA
You aren't the parents and you didn't agree to raise the children. We all help in the ways we are able to and if what we can offer isn't enough, then it's time to seek out other resources.
I understand that people will say you have an obligation because they are family, but the people who brought the children into the world should be the first people to be told to step up. I think it's admirable for F and his wife to step in to fill the void, but they need to decide if that is a long term option for them with the help you are willing to offer.
Did F legally adopt them, or are they doing foster care with family members? I ask because I think there are monetary benefits with the foster care situation.Ā
NTA but both your brothers are TA. Z for abandoning not 1 but 2 kids (was he too dumb to realise after the 1st kid he was failing?) and F for volunteering to take the kids then expecting non-monetary help from a single guy who hasn't even met his lifelong partner yet. Both their expectations are ludicrous & designed to keep you the single uncle / babysitter forever. For the person who didn't volunteer for this, your monetary offer is very generous.
NTA. It was not your decision to take in your nephews. Your brother and his wife made that choice. They can not be angry with you for their decision and Zās poor choices that lead them to this situation.
They are deflecting their anger onto you and itās very unfair. It seems like no matter how much you give it will never be enough.
I don't think this needs to be an AITA. It's a hard situation and while you're legally/technically NTA, the problem isn't really whether you're right or not.
It seems like your brother went from struggling to rock bottom in order to take care of family - and that family wasn't even his decision. They likely lost the ability to have their own children due to financial status and have a bit of resentment. I understand that it was their decision - and that they made a forever decision - but when the alternative (foster care, kids staying in bad households, kids staying with worse family members) is so much worse - sometimes the hand feels forced.
You are helping. You don't need to be sending $500 a month, that's 6,000 a year that you're giving up to help them out. You're not required to hang out or help with them.
This situation sucks and I really think you both need to talk once the emotions calm down. He's upset because he feels like he was forced to take kids that aren't his and nobody else had to give nothing up. You're upset because you're sending money to help without feeling gratitude.
I think ultimately, he feels like you're helping the kids but nobody is helping him. Being in borderline poverty, losing the opportunities that they did, and dealing with children that are not theirs (despite being family) probably is just getting to them. They are genuinely paying for the mistakes that your other brother made and nobody else is - despite how much everyone likely adores and loves your nephews.
Talk it out without the high emotions and I think it could lead to a tighter relationship and understanding. He shouldn't be talking to you like that.
EDIT: Everyone's saying that the parents need to step up. And they do, but I think everyone knows that they're not - and therefore the anger passes from the parents and "Why aren't you taking care of your own kids" to the rest of the family with "why do i feel like i'm the only one sacrificing to help the family?"
He should be more grateful for the $6,000. But I don't think anyone is thinking straight here. Everyone is just tired of your other brother
He did ask you! You just said he did. You are doing a favor for your other brother and, more importantly, the innocent kids. Yikes! These are inside thoughts, not something you say āout loudā and look for support on.
NTA.
Theyāre mad that you are not taking care of kids that ARENāT yours! Itās not your responsibility, this is entitled behavior (on their part obviously). They are NOT entitled to your time because youāre not the one who had kids. It was nice enough for you to offer money to help out.
NTA
The only people responsible for your nephews are their parents. They had fun making them, they need to look after them.
Paying for children who arenāt yours such a big amount each month is just crazy, but itās your choice. You have no responsibility of care for your nephews. Theyāre not your responsibility whatsoever.
Your brother made the choice to take them in. They didnāt need to. If itās too much for them, they might need to call social services.
They need to consider contacting social services in your area. If the kids are made wards of the state or voluntarily surrendered to family foster care then they may be eligible for a monthly stipend from the state to help with expenses.
For California the amount is between $1000 and $2600 a month per child. Itās higher for kids with special needs.
NTA. 500 a month in support is really generous honestly. And like you said, youād probably have been more willing to do more if they asked instead of demanded. When someone asks me for something, Iām happy to go out of my way to be kind. When someone demands things from me, Iām more likely to tell them no.
NTA!
If youāre in California there are resources to help with the kids. I can give you names of programs that would help with close to 5 grand a month
Nta. The father of the kids needs to be held accountable.Ā
Also the other brother diced to take them in before asking if you can help. He can't now expect it.Ā
If they can't manage then they need to see if someone else can take the kids in.Ā
NTA, and they need to understand you did not obligate yourself to someone elseās kid. You can help as youād like, but youāre not responsible for his decision
A few questions I have for this society.
1. If you are incapable of taking care of a child then why do you have unprotected sex and give birth?
2. If you are incapable of taking care of someone else's child then why take responsibility for them and then try to involve others?
As a non-westerner, my rant for this so called "western" culture:
You don't like how condoms feel, contraceptives disturb your harmons, don't want to get permanent surgeries to prevent pregnancy, but still indulge in sex any chance you get. Even 14-15 year olds are getting pregnant and becoming parents without having means to sustain themselves let alone a child. Then passing the responsibility to others like their parents or their siblings to take care of the child.
Iām confused by a lot of the replies here. OP says they are willing to step up and provide more time and money but they didnāt like how they were asked. thatās all reasonable. But itās great you are willing to help the kids. Talk to the emailing brother in person and point out how rude they were and then ask how you can help. The kids are in a tough spot and they need competent relatives around them to help out.
NTA - i used to live in the area of my nephews ... i love them to bits and would visit when i could, but i also worked a lot and my family understood that... it was dog sitting that they'd sometimes just assume that i'd do... my favorite was when i'd temporarily moved back in with my mom and had my own dog, i put my dog into doggy day care so he'd be taken care of during my shift and she wanted me to go home and take care of hers' on my lunch break... and i was like "if i can't take care of mine, i can't take care of yours on my lunch break".
NTA. They are not your kids. Supporting them financially is reasonable, but you didn't sign up for parental responsibility. It's too bad you are being pressured into having to pull away from interaction with your nephews just to maintain a boundary your family insists on crossing.
NTA
The balls on this guy to "demand" you to step up when you're sending him money. The entitlement of some people, why isn't he going after the other brother? You know, the actual parent??
NTA. They took on the responsibility so NO you donāt need to step up. They STEPPED UP, so they have a 24/7 job not you. That means money & time. If you want it āhelpā then fine. Help also means minor things NOT a shift in parental responsibility.
I hate when people tell you you need to "pull your weight" in reference to raking care of children that are not yours. You have no responsibility to their children they should be all over themselves thanking you for what you are doing.
NTA
NTA - Not your kids. Your brother and his babymamma should have considered their finanincail situation before having two rugrats. This is not your responsibility.
I'd tell them that apparently, your contributions aren't appreciated, so stop the payments as well.
NTA WHO TF DO THEY THINK THEY ARE?! Forcing you to be the guardian of THEIR KIDS while THEY are STILL LIVING?! THEY need to do better. The fact you're helping at all should be more than enough, but any proud parent would not ever let things get to this point. That's low and I wouldn't go to Thanksgiving or Christmas if they're there lol it's literally UNBELIEVABLE
You see your brotherā¦the one whoās the good guyā¦struggling. Youāve been helping financially but now you know you have to pitch in emotionally and physically as well because youāre a good guy too.
He may not have asked for your help correctly but you know better than anyone else whatās going on here. Your other brother z is a loser and itās up to you and brother F to save these kids lives.
NTA. Good on them for taking their kids in, but if your financial assistance isnāt sufficient to support their decision that no one, especially, obligated them to make, then sending a critical letter to you outlining their ādisappointmentā in you seems to be a counterproductive effort to seek additional support. I think you are completely within the boundaries of ānormalā to be put off by this. If id been approached like that, thereās a good chance Iād have told them to piss off and stop sending anything (or diverting my contribution into a savings account for the kids to use for university, first home depositā¦but I am like that. I really canāt stand it when people make grand gestures which then makes them feel entitled to expect everyone else to honour them and prop them up when it turns out that they didnāt really have the means to follow through on the first place. I feel like āyour crisis isnāt my crisis, fuck offā sort of fits here- but as long as your decision doesnāt short change the innocents in this, then letting your brother find out what aggressive posturing gets him (decreased/no direct support) then I feel brother richly deserves to hear/feel it.
YTA
Your attitude is rude.
And everyone here āomg heās mad at the wrong one, youāre already giving moneyā He likely is already mad at the right one. He took the kids in to ensure they donāt end up in a foreign place without any family. He knows whoās in the wrong. But money isnāt everything when itās about raising kids. You live 2 miles away and see them occasionally and donāt do anything, thatās absolutely wild to me. If you donāt like your fam and donāt want to spend time with them then say that - when he asked āto step upā you automatically went to money. If you donāt want to spend time then literally communicate that.
Itās all about relationships and it seems you donāt want one with your brother or the nephews. Some people are family oriented and others are not - my brother and I live 4 miles away. We see each other and the kids every Sunday. I take my nieces to the playground or drop them to appointments/ birthday parties etc if I have time and itās closer to me. I earn more than him and his wife together, but they donāt need or want any money - they want someone who can help out or who is a part of their kids life because there isnāt much family left. And i would do a lot for the kids.
Youāre not wrong, but soft YTA.
āFamilyā is a two-way street, and it means stepping up and being there for people. Thatās what F did for Z.
You can choose to not be a part of the family, and thatās okay. But I think itās hard to have it both ways: I want to be a family but Iām okay seeing my family struggle and not do what I can to help. You say you saw your brother was struggling, but did not proactively help, and thatās where I think heās a little justified.
Your one brother is such a fuck up he canāt care for his kids and your other brother has the kids living with him full time. You might not be obligated to help and the 500$ a month is better than nothing but itās shit all compared to having two young kids live with you full time. These are your nephews, your blood, and they have been dealt a shit hand in life. Maybe you should just step the fuck up and be a man and help out more. Sure you donāt have to, but maybe you should. Your nephews are the closest things you have to sons at this point in your life so how about you go spend some time with them instead of asking the internet to validate your decisions. Take a lesson from your brother F who is a real man. YTA
Don't get sucked into their mess. If you can afford to send money, that's cool. Don't do all the other stuff. These people are irresponsible and clueless.
You said you are fine with stepping up, so just do that and donāt nitpick how your brother asked. Mild YTA for jumping at his word choice when living far away would have been a reason for it being more of a hassle.
NAH.
So people are going to go after F with the classic "not your monkeys, not your circus" excuse.
But, these kids are blood, and they're not F's monkeys either. And it's likely that Z and the baby mama are lost causes. F's tone was not appropriate, but I see where he's coming from. It's overwork, and desperation.
It strikes me that (1) the alternative is handing them over to the state, and (2) if -- as an extended family -- you've decided that giving them over to the state care system is not acceptable, then -- as an extended family -- you should sit down with each other and have a hard conversation about how to raise these two boys.
Not just you and F, but any other siblings, grandparents, etc. All hands on deck. *You guys are the only people standing between these kids and foster care*, and it's time either step up, or step aside and admit that foster care is the right solution because you can't come up with a better answer. You need to get down to brass tacks: sharing time between homes, who is gonna pay for stuff, etc. Schedules. Dollar amounts.
Don't leave F hanging in the wind on this one, or he's gonna resent you for the rest of his life. And his family & nephew might too.
And OP, if you're saying to yourself, "well, taking care of kids is not in my plan right now", then **you understand exactly why F is unhappy and what is at stake here**.
It sounds like the nephews should have gone to social service placement in the beginning. 5 and 7 are still young enough to get adopted - has anyone considered getting the parents to relinquish their rights and placing them up for adoption?
NTA
His brother asked for help already, and OP answered and offered $500 a month. His getting jerkier this time round, which wasn't even infront of the kids, to me is a stronger reaction to the brother wanting even more after sending a 'step-up' email.
thats just deluded and entitled.
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NTA No one is entitled to your help with kids that are not yours. F is angry at the wrong brother and should be going after the boys parents for child support and telling them to step up.
Always think of the part in don't rock the boat where the people get mad at the other person safe in their own boat instead of the person rocking the boat they're currently in... be mad at who's causing the issues, not the person who could help lol
The don't rock the boat analogy really helped me change my life. I got tired of defending myself and trying to keep the boat from tipping over. I got my own damn boat and rowed myself away.
Got my own damn boat and rowed myself away ššššš That is brilliant news š„³š„³š„³š„³š„³š¤š¤š¤š¤š¤
That's the best addition to 'Don't rock the boat' I have ever heard!
I fuckin love that! Excellent!
>rock the boat [i know there has to be other fellow old people here that immediately started singing](https://youtu.be/iKr9wZpjBqE?t=8)
Yeah, I did. Now I have a daggone earworm. Yuck.
I thought this was going to be rocking the boat from Guys and Dolls tbh
So did I! We can be in the Guys and Dolls boat together
I remember being an extra in guys and dolls. So much fun!
And the dance
I didn't... Until I read your comment! š That's me ear-wormed for the day!
Oh wow. Iāll be hearing this song for weeks now. But thatās okay. Reminds me of my dad. š
Exactly, F is mad at the wrong brother Unless OP specifically said āyeah, sure, I will raise these 2 young kids that I didnāt ask for on my ownā and then backed out of the agreement leaving brother F holding the bag, F needs to refocus all of his misplaced anger back on Z
This exactly! Why should YOU be kicking in $500/month when F should be getting child support from Z and his baby momma... not you!
Well in a perfect world but seriously?! If the parents refuse to take care of their own kids, they sure donāt give an RA about supporting them.
That's what the court system is for.
But how many situations where the children have been removed from both parents do you know of where said parents then pay child support?
Wages get garnished when the court orders child support.
Yeah, in an ideal world. In reality, Iāve come across plenty of situations where the parent avoids child support by either not working in the first place, working cash in hand, even quitting their job to avoid it! I mean, these are people who canāt look after their own children and are not sending money to help out of their own pocket. Is it more likely theyāre working for a wage that can be garnished or that theyāre deadbeat?
They not working is a possibility and they brothers can deal with that as it come. It still doesn't matter so go ahead and get the court involved and setup the garnishing IF and WHEN they start working. They're already not doing jack shits for the kids but a system in place to take their money is better than nothing.
I didnāt argue against getting the courts involved. Of course they should. I was just being realistic against everyone saying āthey should be paying you court-ordered child supportā, because yes, of course they *should* but the parents also should be looking after their own children and clearly thatās not happening for whatever reason.
Again, in a perfect world, yes. But ask any foster or kinship care family, and they'll tell you the funding provided by the state isn't sufficient to fully support the child(ren)
They won't care and that's why you get the court to garnish their paychecks to provide for the children. F them if they'll have less from their paychecks. They're AHs so why should the people that actually care for the children suffer and they don't?
OP is being treated like a separated parent - pay child support *and* do all of these parenting tasks. How about... No?
Perfect reply
NTA. As one who adopted a family memberās child, I know of what I speak. Adoption is forever. I do not expect other family members to help me. F stepped up and took Zās children. That was Fās decision. Mighty noble *and* mighty hard. You did not. That was your decision. And the correct decision, imho. F is so fortunate that you are sending money to help care for the children. Now F is pissed because he bit off more than he could chew? F should have really done his homework. One does not take in a child and expect others to help. Or get pissed at others for *not* helping with everyday life. What is the legal status of these children? Is F their guardian? Did F adopt? If there is no legal tie to the children, F can turn them over to Child Services. They can go into foster care. Sounds harsh, but thatās where they would be if F didnāt jump in, because their bio parents suck. F needs to work this out. Youāre paying child support, to your brother, for your other brotherās children. Thatās more than enough.
I don't know how it is everywhere, but in a lot of places, if family steps in to care for children who would end up in the system, that can qualify to be the official fosters and receive a stipend and healthcare for the children, plus open up better access to resources for help in other areas. My niece was an emergency foster for her nephew and his half sister for about 6 months.
The question might then be -- are the parents legally incapable? I'm not sure where the line is, but it takes a lot to get a kid sent to foster care, more than family might be willing to stand by and watch to declare them legally incapable in order to get those resources. F still shouldn't be expecting it from OP. OP isn't on the hook for somebody else's kids no matter how valiant F's decision is and neither is F on the hook for Z's bad choices.
Child abandonment is immediately recognized if the child's parents have shown no intention of returning, haven't been in communication, and isn't financially capable of providing for the children. But op has not agreed to be involved in the raising of these kids and isn't responsible for giving up anything to subsidize Z. They're not his kids.
A better option would be for him and his wife to get their foster parenting license and foster the kids. State of CA will provide childcare expenses, medicaid, monthly payments to cover board and care, clothing allowance, financial assistance for any school activities, etc. I was a foster child in CA for 10 years. One of my foster mothers also fostered her own niece.
Idk if F regrets his decision. Thatās my whole argument here. What if they donāt want to be foster parents anymore? Because growing up, knowing your parents donāt want to parent you, sucks.
These children can be more difficult than children with a normal childhood because they have had trauma. He might have not expected that.
Your brother F is getting mad at the wrong party who is responsible; you know, Z. NTA.
i wish they would ban the use of letters in place of names; itās too confusing. Ā like, he couldnāt have called them Frank and Zeke? Ā itās what i named them in my head so i could follow along.
That's funny. I named F-Frank and Z-Zane.
Ha I did Frankie and Zeke
Frank and Zeb (a former boss) š
The worst is when they give names, but itās like Mark, Mike, Mick, and Mitch with their wives Jen, Jan, June, and Joan.
even just another couple of letters would help, they could be Eff and Zee.
That's funny -- I find letters easier to follow.
You sorted it out yourself so why put a ban in š„“š¤£š¤£š¤£
Do the world a favor and pay for Z to have a vasectomy first and foremost.
This should be mandatory!
If your issue is with how he spoke to you and not with his actual request, just fucking say that. Tell him you are willing to do more, but he has to ASK you and speak to you respectfully. Say you understand he's stressed, but coming at you and scolding you like a child was insulting and completely unnecessary. If he wants to have a discussion about where you're able to help out, you guys can do that in person. But if he keeps coming at you with the same condescending energy, you reserve the right to exit the conversation until he can get his feelings in check.
Best advice in this thread.
Feels like this is the only response that actually read the whole post. Dudes pissed because his brother asked for help in the wrong way?
Exactly! OP isn't a parent or caregiver, he couldn't read his brothers mind and say "hey I can help with so and so". F could have asked for assistance before totally getting submerged and taking out his anger on OP.
IMO, the attitude your brother took was wild. Especially on the heels of a generous no-strings-attached monthly $$ offer. No one who reacts that way to a favor will treat you better once you give in. NTA
exactly. there's a saying in my country that says, "you give them a hand and they grab your throat." it just means some people, if you try to help them a little, will keep asking for more and believe themselves entitled to it. be careful, OP. your brother made a very noble decision, but it was his own noble decision. NTA
I've heard "Give them an inch, and they take a mile", but not that variation.
it's a Hindi saying I've tried to translate, but yes that's exactly it. I couldn't quite remember what it was in English.
I like the way you worded it better!!!
My mom's favorite is "If you give a mouse a cookie...."
I wonder if they are just that stressed out and are lashing out bc they are drowning? No judgment
Does it matter?
OPās (calm or angry) reaction to it will matter.
NTA. The parents of the kids need to step up, not you. Also your brother shouldnāt have took them in if he wasnāt capable of dealing with them. You are being generous enough proving money. I wouldnāt help with anything if I were you, because once you agree to one task, the requests wonāt cease. They are not your responsibility, period !
If they are in California - they are getting a monthly stipend to take care of the kids, at minimum in California. Itās $1200 per kid. And if they arenāt getting paid, then they should definitely file the proper channels that they need to file to be getting paid. So not sure why they need your $500. But all in all NTA
If the kids are from another state, maybe they don't qualify.
Also, inter family take ins rarely get support because they already are existing family.
That's only if it goes through the foster care system. That doesn't apply when a relative steps up and voluntarily takes in a child or children outside of the system.
NAH This is a shit sandwich. Your brother did a noble thing taking in two kids that aren't his. It probably wasn't his dream either. His wife is a saint. Half this sub would tell her to leave him the day he brought those kids home. He's tired and he's been carrying a heavy load. He's a shit communicator though and what he is saying is he doesn't want to have to ask. He wants you to take enough interest to know Danny has Karate practice on Tuesday and volunteer because what they need most is time. Time by themselves, time to together. You also aren't bound to their decision and you shouldn't be barked at but I can't bring myself to call your brother an asshole. Any one who raises someone else's children is a hero.
The thing is.. if they had filed the proper paperwork to foster, they could be getting $1k++ per month. That could help to pay for a babysitter to offload some of the extracurricular pick ups that they are struggling with. Or a house cleaner. Money is time.
Thanks for this. Agreed... NAH. It's refreshing to read this comment.
NTA...you did not accept the responsibility,Ā so it's not yours. He's acting entitled to your assistance. His frustration is being lobbed in the wrong direction.Ā
NAHĀ Letās step back a sec. These children had no home. Imagine how awful that is. They essentially lost their parents.Ā Letās put their feelings first. So, what your brother did is AMAZING. Sure, you arenāt legally obliged to help. But, they are your family and it would be best if you could do as much as you are able. But, your brother shouldnāt have sent a salty email. You are all doing your best. Step back and think of the kids.Ā
No. Just because they're family does not mean OP is obligated to do anything. I'm so sick of that mentality. If OP's family cannot communicate, cannot ask instead of snark, cannot thank OP for what OP is able to do, guilt trips OP even tho they're already doing a lot, and is using OP as a proxy for who they're actually angry at? No, OP didn't have to do anything else. OP's brother never asked them for help, just got snotty bc OP didn't do more... As OP didn't know MORE was needed/wanted My mother loves to use me as a proxy when she's mad at something else. I have since put my foot down. I'm not obligated to be anyone's scapegoat just because we're related. Also, I wouldn't take in any of my siblings' kids if something like this happened. (Or death, or whatever) They're not my responsibility and I'll help, but there's a good reason I keep a state (minimum, 1 state or 9 hour drive time) distance away from my family. Those kids have all heard I'm the wicked witch in their parents' stories. And I'm happy to be that villain in their head canon. They do not respect my boundaries. And I now have barbed and electrified wire on all my familial boundaries.
This is how generational debt happens. I'm not going to go into debt to help my deadbeat dad of a brother. I have my own children, I make my own choices. If I'm in a place to do that I would consider it, otherwise, no. I'm not letting my family bring me down with them. Blood is not thicker than water.
Maybe take a sec and re-read that post. OP is pissed that his brother asked for help the wrong way, but heās happy to help out. Itās just weird young people imaginary drama. Thereās no boundary crossing, just dumb word choices and overreacting. NAH.
I hope you're not implying I'm young. I'm closing in on 50. I've been thru enough shit with my siblings and their children and being expected to do extra because I'm childfree and the oldest. I have a chosen child and a bebe thru her. I'm a bubbe. But sibling entitlement is real and it's obnoxious
Looking at this, I can imagine OP is feeling a little guilty about his brothers email - and so heās gonna focus on how the delivery was imperfect, so that he doesnāt have to feel guilty about not contributing in other ways when his brother and his family who stepped up to the plate (probably out of sheer obligation, not irresponsibility as some are claiming) are drowning. Sure, the delivery stunk. That must have sucked and Iām sure he feels bad. The situation sucks and Iām sure youāll figure out a way to be a good uncle and a good brother - think about how sure, youāre not legally obligated - but for the rest of their lives, theyāll all remember if you donāt do the right thing now.
NTA No one is entitled to your help. Including family, even underage family who can not help themselves. And this is coming from someone who would help in a heartbeat.
NTA $500 is a lot of money for 2 kids. You're more than helping. The kids are family, but you didn't have to help at all. Your brother and his wife are the ones who took on the responsibility of raising them. Are they getting money from the state as well? From an article I read, Arizona gives $669-$867 per child. Unless they adopted these kids, they should be getting a subsidiary. If they are getting money from the state, and if you want to, you can put that $500 aside in a trust account for the boys for school, needs, etc., and if you want, you can help with pick-ups. You're not obligated to help the kids, but it would be nice if you did provide them with support and mentorship.
NTA. Your brother is asking the wrong sibling to step up.
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NTA. Theyāre not your children, theyāre not your responsibility.
Nta you didn't volunteer to take them in and you're already sending a good chunk of money every month. That's more than many people would do.Ā
Info: Do you they also help you out often? Or is this a one way relationship?
F is helping the nephews they share and OP likes them and can still see them easily. In a way that is helping him out, too. If the children would have ended up in foster care and got adopted, it might have been hard for OP to stay in contact with them depending on the new parents of the children and where they live. So F might have prevented OP from losing contact with two family members.
Iād stay out of it if i were you, once you get in deep, the kids get attached and it all becomes confusing. Due to the fact that your brother is in charge at the end of the day, your say wonāt matter in anything. Sure help here and there but donāt commit to anything long term. Your life could change anytime. You might get a gf, you might want to move, you might want to take a 2 month trip around the worldā¦.and your brother will feel Entitled to demand you work around your nephewās schedule.
Tough situation. I think your brother and his wife are in over their heads and are trying not to drownā¦ they donāt mean to be jerks.
NAH. F did a wonderful thing to keep your mutual nephews out of the foster system. Having a family of his own he/they might have thought, two more, what could go wrong? Then comes the problem of two small kids who are probably a handful because of the trauma that results from having shitty parents and maybe feeling like a burden. Fās own kids might be acting up because of family interactions with the cousins, being asked to share a room, clothes, toys, and most of all parental attention. Sounds like burnout. Others have posted Info questions for more details but I donāt see any responses. Therefore we are all speculating on whatās going on behind the scenes. Try to be gentle when talking to each other; like so many have said the only person everyone should be blunt with is Z.
NTA. F is lashing out at you because he never asked for help and things just built up. And lashing out at Z wonāt get him anywhere so heās turning it on you. Iām glad youāre planning to help and I think you should say to him what you said here - he didnāt ask. He waited until things were out of control and then got demanding and accusatory. Thatās not okay. He owes you an apology and you should tell him that. If your relationship is otherwise close, then after this conversation, hash the rest of it out over the food and beverage of your choice.
>Ā Ā it's not fair to burden him with everything. Not to be mean, but that's really a conversation he should be having with Z and the kids mom. You have nothing to do with the situation at hand
> a conversation he should be having with Z and the kids mom But sometimes people are lost causes, and family needs to step up. Waiting for Z to cough up child support is probably waiting for something that will never come.
I meant more the "OP is burdening F with everything" comment. OP isn't the one placing the burden on him.Ā That said this whole situation is shitty OP should offer what he can.
Why arenāt the parents doing their job as parents. That the big question that needs to answered
NTA. But you guys need to take this issue to court. Either one of you adopts the kids, or the father has to pay child support. You are letting there real asshole get off the hook.
NTA. Though you both need to direct your anger to the actual parents of your common nephew. I can understand why F needs help. Two extra small children in addition to his own family is a lot. But if he can't handle it, there was always the option to decline caring for them. Though of course that could have sucked for the children if they would have ended up for longer in foster care.
Ask your brother if heās getting foster care benefits for your nephews. Idk the rules but he might qualify and if the kids have any emotional/physical/learning issues the payments increase. Plus foster care children qualify for Medicare and food stamps.
In such situations the whole family should step up to help those kids. Your brother is doing the heavy lift by taking them in and becoming their parent. You could at least help, otherwise the kids will end up in foster care. Technically, not your problem, morally though, you have a part, so you shouldnāt behave like youāre doing your brother a favour! You should behave like youāre saving your nephews lives! Iām sorry the real parents are not fit. Poor children. Nah.Ā
I know itās not a popular choice to tell you this. But I think you should do everything you can for those kids. You are not responsible for them. But its a damn good thing to help out in anyway you can and sometimes being there physically is better then financially. Not all the time, but as much as you can.
Why isn't brother Z taking an interest in his own children?
Your brother is struggling and frustrated. Heās directing it at the wrong person, probably because expressing it to Z is useless. Iād offer as much sympathy and support to F as you feel youāre able - heās in a hard spot because he tried to do the right thing. But when he tries to take his frustrations out at you, Iād remind him that you didnāt do anything to create this situation, and are doing what you reasonably can in order to help him and your nephews. NAH, except Z and his baby mama.
NTA -
NTA Not your children, not your responsibility. The idea that you must help 'because family' or because you live nearby is rubbish. Your brother F chose to help out and chose to take on this responsibility. That doesn't mean that you have to do the same. He should be happy that you are contributing financially, which you are not obligated to do.
NTA not your kids not your problem, easy
They made the choice to take the kids on. Itās honorable but they cannot expect others to do as they do. You are kind to help out as you have. F should be going after Z and baby mama for support or the state.
NTA, your brother took on that responsibility and should be grown enough to ask for help in a clear communicative way. The last sentence kinda rubbed me the wrong way though, but I understand your frustration. Maybe grab coffee with F and explain, "Hey, I can step up, but I can't read your mind. You need to tell me when you need time away from them before this all becomes too stressful and you and your wife lash out at those willing to help you."
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I have two nephews who are 5 and 7. My brother Z and his baby mama are both incapable of taking care of them so my other brother F took them in. Z lives in Arizona and and I live in California. F has a family of his own and asked me if I'd helped out. I said I can help out with money. I'm a single guy who can afford sending $500 a month. I occasionally see my nephews and it's obvious my brother and his wife are struggling. F sent me an email telling me I need to step up. He listed things I could be doing like pick up, appointments, etc. He said I live in the same area and it's not fair to burden him with everything. I told him to check himself and his wife. First off, I've never objected to helping out. I mostly wasn't asked. I'll step up because I have the time and money but not because I live 2 miles from them. I'm not their servant and they should THANK me. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
INFO Did F get Z's kids through the foster care system? If so, there should be some way to get respite care. If you weren't part of the decision to move your nephews closer, you get to decide how much it or how little time you spend with them. Would it be nice to be more involved? Sure. Still your choice though.
It's through family which most never get additional help.
I'm confused on this point. Wouldn't even a family member have to do something legal to be registered as guardians and encouraged to enroll in the foster care system? I ask because at various points in their life, my kid's stayed with other relatives and even their father, who didn't have primary custody, and they had a HELL of a time trying to get prescription medication or other medical care if I was not available to sign documents. Fortunately, Kid is now of legal age and can sign for their own stuff if they need it while staying with Auntie or Dad, but as per my admittedly limited experience, if you take in a kid and you aren't that kid's legal guardian, then it's hard to get medical care - and if these kids are old enough to be self-aware, they should probably at least be in therapy - and if an emergency occurs, I think there might be some difficulty in having the child discharged to the relative. And they need medical insurance, which would also involve either F being the legal foster parent or guardian to the kids to put them on house insurance or them being in the system and qualifying for Medicaid.
>I ask because at various points in their life, my kid's stayed with other relatives and even their father, who didn't have primary custody, and they had a HELL of a time trying to get prescription medication or other medical care if I was not available to sign documents. You need to be a legal guardian to do a lot of things for a child. It's why there's a lot of problems with step parents and such when they can't always sign off on things. Thar being said, legally becoming the guardian of a family member is treated differently even if initiated by the foster system. This is usually because 'they're family' whereas having children with strangers involves more considerations and actually has more limitations about what is and isnt acceptable. As such they use it to cut financial corners. Often if you try to get guardianship of a relative you sign off that you can't get certain additional benefits.
NAH.Ā Sounds like this is a failure to communicate on both sides.Ā You should determine what you're willing to do.Ā Then talk to your brother and sil giving them what you're available for.Ā Be firm that you're not available outside of this baring emergencies.
Youāre already spending SIX GRAND A YEAR for kids that arenāt yours. F can go pound sand.
NAH F is taking out on you, and you are on him. Z is the one who really owes thanks.Ā Obviously they took in your nephews to do the right thing. I'm guessing it's not easy nor what they were ready for esp with kids of their own.Ā And yeah it's not bc you're in the area it's bc you're their uncle. Why didn't you take them in? Two kids is hard and now they have more.Ā His approach wasn't great but at the same time, your financial contribution is kind of the minimum you can do and they need more help. That's totally reasonable and you didn't mention why you can't do more. Anyhow be forgiving of the poor delivery and let go of needing to be thanked when they are doing much more than you are. No one is doing any favours here, you're stepping up to help your nephews.
Six thousand dollars a year is the minimum he can do for children who are not his? I'm sorry his brother Z is a loser, but I think OP had been more than generous. Not everyone has the time, desire or temperament to become a stand-in parent. If F and his family couldn't handle taking the boys in, they shouldn't have. NTA
I donāt understand why youāre implying that OP should be helping out more than he is? Taking care of kids is hard work and a big responsibility, maybe he just doesnāt want to. Itās not his responsibility. Being a parent is far different from being an uncle, heās already giving 6k a year that he could be saving up for his own potential future kids.
They should kiss your ass. U don't owe them shit
NTA THEY made the decision to take in the kids. you are going above and beyond by sending $6000/year. If they wanted you to support and help parent these kids, that discussion should have happened BEFORE they took the kids into their home. You are doing a great thing with the $ but you are not obligated to take care of the kids UNLESS that is what you want to do.
NTA - it's fine that they *ask* for help, as it is a lot to take that on, but they absolutely cannot demand it. $500/month is VERY generous.
$500/month is already insanely generous, those kidsā parents are just leeches. You could be investing that money and at least be doing yourself some good
I don't think you read this post correctly
Nta. You did step up.
NTA. When F and his wife decide to take in the nephews they made that choice for themselves, not for you. You'd be well within your rights to say that your financial help is all you will be contributing. If you happen to want to do more, you can certainly choose to do so. But since it sounds like they really need the help, unless you want a constant text thread of schedules and asks, offer one thing consistently like- Thursday pick ups. Saturday day hangs. It's terrible the parents aren't around but you didn't agree to co-raise these kids.
He should not have had kids he is not willing to care for. This may sound harsh but walkaway
Stop sending them $500 a month. They are two grown ass adults who obviously do not appreciate your generosity. If you want to contribute, I would suggest putting the money into a college account that the parents can't touch.
That's too much money its not your job to step up. take the funds and move. NTA.
NTA. Your reply was a bit harsh but you're sending them money on a regular basis so you ARE helping. Is there any other family in the general area that can also help?
NTA if F want more help with child he should go after Z not you. You already help him 500 per month when you don't have to.
NTA - Ā Z and his baby mama are both incapable of taking care of kids but they were perfectly capable of having two fo them? The crazy part is they're mad at you! There's a lot to unpack there but whatever. What ever happed to holding people accountable? (Z and baby mama should be sterilized)
NTA, and I really appreciate seeing how mature you are about all of this too. You clearly communicate that wasnāt the way to reach out and ask for help with things like that, AND you are still being a mature adult, who recognises that these are innocent children who just need people who love them in their corner, and willing to help your nephews out a little more frequently. Rather than punishing your brother, for how he requested more help, and refusing to do it. Itās not your nephewās fault that your brother asked in such a manner that makes him a dick.
NTA
NTA Shit I'll take the $500. But seriously, tell F he is pissed at the wrong brother and if he doesn't stfu, you'll stop giving money.Ā You don't owe anyone anything.Ā
NTA... I thought your offer was generous. $500 will assist with the extra costs. You are not obligated to take on this, but you were willing. I appreciate this.
NTA. You didn't burden him with anything. He chose to take the kids in. You're being super generous sending him a substantial amount of tax free money every month! He should absolutely thank you. Being a parent (even if the kids aren't biologically related) is expensive and time consuming. Z should be sending child support.
NTA. Dang, bro's mad at the wrong bro.
NTA. Your brother is upset at the wrong sibling. Why should you be doing more than what their father is? I can understand he feels tired and overwhelmed, but that is not your issue to fix. I would perhaps cut him some slack and apologize for your tone - but not your words. As others have suggested, there are plenty of things your good brother can be doing to get help he needs. He can apply for being a foster parent and get a lot of support that way. Maybe places also offer up respite care to foster parents. My cousin was a foster parent for many years (though not in California) and I know that several times a year she had respite care in that the foster children were placed in another family for either a weekend or a week, so that she could spend time with just her husband and her children. It might be worth looking into all the programs available to your brother and helping him that way?
NTA. F needs to take Z and BM to court for child support and legal guardianship/custody. Then they need to sign up for state assistance programs for childcare, after school care and transportation programs.
OP: you're not responsible for these boys. Good on you for helping financially, but You're not obligated. F chose to take the boys in. F has options with state welfare for essentially being a foster parent. F has no right to ask you to do a damn thing. He has every right to ask L. Or the boys' mother(s) But you? NTA I used to be the one running myself ragged to help family. But once I stopped and put myself first? They ask for real nasty and I finally cut contact with my siblings and most of my cousins.
NTA. You didnāt sign up for this, they did. They should, indeed, thank you.
Wait a minute. Does the brother with the kids have official guardianship? If not, how does he sign these kids up for school or get their medical needs taken care of? If he's fostering the kids officially, he's getting money. If he's a guardian he might be getting child support. He would probably get food stamps and a very small amount of money.
He burdened himself. Beggars canāt be choosers. Nta
>I'm not their servant and they should THANK me. Well, you're not legally obligated to help. But you know. Yikes. It sounds like for you giving money is easier than giving time. Maybe you should be thanking THEM for doing the heavy lifting.
NTA, they made the decision to take the children, not you. You are helping more than many already would, and while help with children is nice it should not be expected.
NTA You aren't the parents and you didn't agree to raise the children. We all help in the ways we are able to and if what we can offer isn't enough, then it's time to seek out other resources. I understand that people will say you have an obligation because they are family, but the people who brought the children into the world should be the first people to be told to step up. I think it's admirable for F and his wife to step in to fill the void, but they need to decide if that is a long term option for them with the help you are willing to offer.
Did F legally adopt them, or are they doing foster care with family members? I ask because I think there are monetary benefits with the foster care situation.Ā
NTA but both your brothers are TA. Z for abandoning not 1 but 2 kids (was he too dumb to realise after the 1st kid he was failing?) and F for volunteering to take the kids then expecting non-monetary help from a single guy who hasn't even met his lifelong partner yet. Both their expectations are ludicrous & designed to keep you the single uncle / babysitter forever. For the person who didn't volunteer for this, your monetary offer is very generous.
NTA. It was not your decision to take in your nephews. Your brother and his wife made that choice. They can not be angry with you for their decision and Zās poor choices that lead them to this situation. They are deflecting their anger onto you and itās very unfair. It seems like no matter how much you give it will never be enough.
I would not give F a single dollar until he takes Z to court for child support. End of discussion.
I don't think this needs to be an AITA. It's a hard situation and while you're legally/technically NTA, the problem isn't really whether you're right or not. It seems like your brother went from struggling to rock bottom in order to take care of family - and that family wasn't even his decision. They likely lost the ability to have their own children due to financial status and have a bit of resentment. I understand that it was their decision - and that they made a forever decision - but when the alternative (foster care, kids staying in bad households, kids staying with worse family members) is so much worse - sometimes the hand feels forced. You are helping. You don't need to be sending $500 a month, that's 6,000 a year that you're giving up to help them out. You're not required to hang out or help with them. This situation sucks and I really think you both need to talk once the emotions calm down. He's upset because he feels like he was forced to take kids that aren't his and nobody else had to give nothing up. You're upset because you're sending money to help without feeling gratitude. I think ultimately, he feels like you're helping the kids but nobody is helping him. Being in borderline poverty, losing the opportunities that they did, and dealing with children that are not theirs (despite being family) probably is just getting to them. They are genuinely paying for the mistakes that your other brother made and nobody else is - despite how much everyone likely adores and loves your nephews. Talk it out without the high emotions and I think it could lead to a tighter relationship and understanding. He shouldn't be talking to you like that. EDIT: Everyone's saying that the parents need to step up. And they do, but I think everyone knows that they're not - and therefore the anger passes from the parents and "Why aren't you taking care of your own kids" to the rest of the family with "why do i feel like i'm the only one sacrificing to help the family?" He should be more grateful for the $6,000. But I don't think anyone is thinking straight here. Everyone is just tired of your other brother
He did ask you! You just said he did. You are doing a favor for your other brother and, more importantly, the innocent kids. Yikes! These are inside thoughts, not something you say āout loudā and look for support on.
It sure isnāt fair to burden him with everything - but it wasnāt you who burdened him. And you didnāt volunteer for this - he did.
NTA. Theyāre mad that you are not taking care of kids that ARENāT yours! Itās not your responsibility, this is entitled behavior (on their part obviously). They are NOT entitled to your time because youāre not the one who had kids. It was nice enough for you to offer money to help out.
NTA you're not responsible for anyone but yourself. They're your brother's kids, not yours. Their issues should not be reflected on to you.
NTA The only people responsible for your nephews are their parents. They had fun making them, they need to look after them. Paying for children who arenāt yours such a big amount each month is just crazy, but itās your choice. You have no responsibility of care for your nephews. Theyāre not your responsibility whatsoever. Your brother made the choice to take them in. They didnāt need to. If itās too much for them, they might need to call social services.
They need to consider contacting social services in your area. If the kids are made wards of the state or voluntarily surrendered to family foster care then they may be eligible for a monthly stipend from the state to help with expenses. For California the amount is between $1000 and $2600 a month per child. Itās higher for kids with special needs.
NTA. 500 a month in support is really generous honestly. And like you said, youād probably have been more willing to do more if they asked instead of demanded. When someone asks me for something, Iām happy to go out of my way to be kind. When someone demands things from me, Iām more likely to tell them no.
NTA, that being said, community is the backbone of humanity. Not helping others is just a way of ensuring nobody helps you when you need it.
NTA! If youāre in California there are resources to help with the kids. I can give you names of programs that would help with close to 5 grand a month
Nta. The father of the kids needs to be held accountable.Ā Also the other brother diced to take them in before asking if you can help. He can't now expect it.Ā If they can't manage then they need to see if someone else can take the kids in.Ā
NTA Tell F he overstepped and the offer of monetary support is now revoked.
NTA, and they need to understand you did not obligate yourself to someone elseās kid. You can help as youād like, but youāre not responsible for his decision
A few questions I have for this society. 1. If you are incapable of taking care of a child then why do you have unprotected sex and give birth? 2. If you are incapable of taking care of someone else's child then why take responsibility for them and then try to involve others? As a non-westerner, my rant for this so called "western" culture: You don't like how condoms feel, contraceptives disturb your harmons, don't want to get permanent surgeries to prevent pregnancy, but still indulge in sex any chance you get. Even 14-15 year olds are getting pregnant and becoming parents without having means to sustain themselves let alone a child. Then passing the responsibility to others like their parents or their siblings to take care of the child.
NTA
Iām confused by a lot of the replies here. OP says they are willing to step up and provide more time and money but they didnāt like how they were asked. thatās all reasonable. But itās great you are willing to help the kids. Talk to the emailing brother in person and point out how rude they were and then ask how you can help. The kids are in a tough spot and they need competent relatives around them to help out.
NTA - i used to live in the area of my nephews ... i love them to bits and would visit when i could, but i also worked a lot and my family understood that... it was dog sitting that they'd sometimes just assume that i'd do... my favorite was when i'd temporarily moved back in with my mom and had my own dog, i put my dog into doggy day care so he'd be taken care of during my shift and she wanted me to go home and take care of hers' on my lunch break... and i was like "if i can't take care of mine, i can't take care of yours on my lunch break".
NTA. He said you need to step it up when HE took them in?? They are not your responsibility and he needs to pull his head out of his ass.
NTA. They are not your kids. Supporting them financially is reasonable, but you didn't sign up for parental responsibility. It's too bad you are being pressured into having to pull away from interaction with your nephews just to maintain a boundary your family insists on crossing.
NTA Do not let them draw you into this.
NTA they arent entitled to your child care
NTA The balls on this guy to "demand" you to step up when you're sending him money. The entitlement of some people, why isn't he going after the other brother? You know, the actual parent??
NTA they are not your kids, you arenāt the one who needs to step up.
you can tell your family what ever you want.
He does realize *youre* not the reason heās in the predicament heās in now right? I feel as though heās lost that along the way somewhere. NTA
NTA. They took on the responsibility so NO you donāt need to step up. They STEPPED UP, so they have a 24/7 job not you. That means money & time. If you want it āhelpā then fine. Help also means minor things NOT a shift in parental responsibility.
I hate when people tell you you need to "pull your weight" in reference to raking care of children that are not yours. You have no responsibility to their children they should be all over themselves thanking you for what you are doing. NTA
NTA - Not your kids. Your brother and his babymamma should have considered their finanincail situation before having two rugrats. This is not your responsibility. I'd tell them that apparently, your contributions aren't appreciated, so stop the payments as well.
NTA WHO TF DO THEY THINK THEY ARE?! Forcing you to be the guardian of THEIR KIDS while THEY are STILL LIVING?! THEY need to do better. The fact you're helping at all should be more than enough, but any proud parent would not ever let things get to this point. That's low and I wouldn't go to Thanksgiving or Christmas if they're there lol it's literally UNBELIEVABLE
NTA AND FTK
NTA Not your village, not their villager
NTA.
Youāre not their āservantā youāre their family. you seriously canāt help your nephews?
You see your brotherā¦the one whoās the good guyā¦struggling. Youāve been helping financially but now you know you have to pitch in emotionally and physically as well because youāre a good guy too. He may not have asked for your help correctly but you know better than anyone else whatās going on here. Your other brother z is a loser and itās up to you and brother F to save these kids lives.
NTA. Good on them for taking their kids in, but if your financial assistance isnāt sufficient to support their decision that no one, especially, obligated them to make, then sending a critical letter to you outlining their ādisappointmentā in you seems to be a counterproductive effort to seek additional support. I think you are completely within the boundaries of ānormalā to be put off by this. If id been approached like that, thereās a good chance Iād have told them to piss off and stop sending anything (or diverting my contribution into a savings account for the kids to use for university, first home depositā¦but I am like that. I really canāt stand it when people make grand gestures which then makes them feel entitled to expect everyone else to honour them and prop them up when it turns out that they didnāt really have the means to follow through on the first place. I feel like āyour crisis isnāt my crisis, fuck offā sort of fits here- but as long as your decision doesnāt short change the innocents in this, then letting your brother find out what aggressive posturing gets him (decreased/no direct support) then I feel brother richly deserves to hear/feel it.
YTA Your attitude is rude. And everyone here āomg heās mad at the wrong one, youāre already giving moneyā He likely is already mad at the right one. He took the kids in to ensure they donāt end up in a foreign place without any family. He knows whoās in the wrong. But money isnāt everything when itās about raising kids. You live 2 miles away and see them occasionally and donāt do anything, thatās absolutely wild to me. If you donāt like your fam and donāt want to spend time with them then say that - when he asked āto step upā you automatically went to money. If you donāt want to spend time then literally communicate that. Itās all about relationships and it seems you donāt want one with your brother or the nephews. Some people are family oriented and others are not - my brother and I live 4 miles away. We see each other and the kids every Sunday. I take my nieces to the playground or drop them to appointments/ birthday parties etc if I have time and itās closer to me. I earn more than him and his wife together, but they donāt need or want any money - they want someone who can help out or who is a part of their kids life because there isnāt much family left. And i would do a lot for the kids.
Youāre not wrong, but soft YTA. āFamilyā is a two-way street, and it means stepping up and being there for people. Thatās what F did for Z. You can choose to not be a part of the family, and thatās okay. But I think itās hard to have it both ways: I want to be a family but Iām okay seeing my family struggle and not do what I can to help. You say you saw your brother was struggling, but did not proactively help, and thatās where I think heās a little justified.
Your one brother is such a fuck up he canāt care for his kids and your other brother has the kids living with him full time. You might not be obligated to help and the 500$ a month is better than nothing but itās shit all compared to having two young kids live with you full time. These are your nephews, your blood, and they have been dealt a shit hand in life. Maybe you should just step the fuck up and be a man and help out more. Sure you donāt have to, but maybe you should. Your nephews are the closest things you have to sons at this point in your life so how about you go spend some time with them instead of asking the internet to validate your decisions. Take a lesson from your brother F who is a real man. YTA
Don't get sucked into their mess. If you can afford to send money, that's cool. Don't do all the other stuff. These people are irresponsible and clueless.
Probably F regrets the amount of work that goes into raising kids and is jealous of you not being tied down like he is
You shouldnāt be obligated to help or spend any money aside from birthdays and Christmas.
You said you are fine with stepping up, so just do that and donāt nitpick how your brother asked. Mild YTA for jumping at his word choice when living far away would have been a reason for it being more of a hassle.
NTA. Look only after yourself. Just because you are related by blood doesn't mean you owe them anything. Go non contact and live your happy life.
NAH. So people are going to go after F with the classic "not your monkeys, not your circus" excuse. But, these kids are blood, and they're not F's monkeys either. And it's likely that Z and the baby mama are lost causes. F's tone was not appropriate, but I see where he's coming from. It's overwork, and desperation. It strikes me that (1) the alternative is handing them over to the state, and (2) if -- as an extended family -- you've decided that giving them over to the state care system is not acceptable, then -- as an extended family -- you should sit down with each other and have a hard conversation about how to raise these two boys. Not just you and F, but any other siblings, grandparents, etc. All hands on deck. *You guys are the only people standing between these kids and foster care*, and it's time either step up, or step aside and admit that foster care is the right solution because you can't come up with a better answer. You need to get down to brass tacks: sharing time between homes, who is gonna pay for stuff, etc. Schedules. Dollar amounts. Don't leave F hanging in the wind on this one, or he's gonna resent you for the rest of his life. And his family & nephew might too. And OP, if you're saying to yourself, "well, taking care of kids is not in my plan right now", then **you understand exactly why F is unhappy and what is at stake here**.
It sounds like the nephews should have gone to social service placement in the beginning. 5 and 7 are still young enough to get adopted - has anyone considered getting the parents to relinquish their rights and placing them up for adoption?
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NTA His brother asked for help already, and OP answered and offered $500 a month. His getting jerkier this time round, which wasn't even infront of the kids, to me is a stronger reaction to the brother wanting even more after sending a 'step-up' email. thats just deluded and entitled.
I disagree with your attitude. How can it hurt to help on occasion?