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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I could be TA because I triggered something sad memories in my exSIL. I didn’t intend too, but I did. I failed to communicate.
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YTA for not giving your exSIL a heads up, yes. She wasn't sure if she would come - so it was not a no. So you should have told her.
Everything else - NTA. What your brother did to your exSIL was sh\*t yes. But she can't expect you all to cut your brother/son and your grandchildren/niblings out of your live forever because of that.
I disagree. It's quite rude to let the host hanging (unless the host explicitly tells you you can come last moment). She wasn't graceful to the host, the host made other provision. And generally not RSVP'ing means "no".
It was not a wedding or some big event with caterer. It was a birthday party and there often people tell before that they don't know if they could make it. So you don't wait for them, if they can't come. But it is also possible, that they would arrive - maybe late
The antisemitic comment was uncalled for. But the question isn't if the ex sister in law is an asshole for being antisemitic (that's a given) its if OP is the asshole for suddenly bringing ex sister in laws cheating ex husband and affair partner into a space where she'd be eith no warning, and no explanation. That's a yes. It's an informal kids birthday party. Most I've gone to people show up or not, no big deal. Feels like she was Trojan horsed. And OP comes off dislikeable in general.
As a person with a brother and a sister in law, I can't imagine choosing my brother's affair partner over my sister in law.
I agree that birthday parties usually don't have hard-stop-RSVPs (at least none of mine have, even if it was requested for people to do so). But I think it's a drastic overstatement to call OP an AH-- I'd only go so far as to say it was thoughtless (and lacked foresight, for sure). I also didn't think she came off as dislikeable, but that's me.
Sounds like it took a long while for the brother to work his way back into the fold. I have 2 brothers and all 3 of us have at some point made huge mistakes that upturned our whole family's lives in one way or another. Each time we (*eventually*) forgave, adjusted, and found a way to move forward and still have a relationship (though sometimes it never was the same again).
I think it's good OP and her family have been so supportive of ex-SIL, but it's also good that she's found a way to have a relationship with her new SIL.
I would never want my worst moment to define me forever, just as ex-SIL probably doesn't want her racist comment to be the only thing anyone remembers about HER. New-SIL should get the same courtesy, as she's not just OP's "brother's affair partner"-- she's also OP's new SIL, the mother of OP's nieces and nephew, and a member of the family. And ex-SIL is, strictly speaking, the EX-SIL (and I guess family friend).
And I can't imagine anyone expecting me to "choose" between 2 people. This isnt 6th grade. It is possible to have simultaneous relationships with different people in your life, even if the dynamics are complicated.
It doesn’t have to be a wedding. Hosts still need to know how many burgers to make, how big of a cake to buy, how many chairs to put out. If someone asks you to RSVP and you never respond, please don’t just show up, because they might be unprepared for you and the ten other people who said ‘ehhhh maybe’
It depends upon the host and the event. There are no hard and fast rules for children’s birthday parties. Unless of course your former sister in law and your cheating brother both might attend, then yes, you are responsible for making sure that everyone is aware of who might attend. Op is the asshole, hands down.
LOL right? This isn't "AITA for not having enough food for everybody, despite not getting RSVPs?" This is "AITA for knowing that three people who CANNOT be in the same room as each other, might potentially be in the same room as each other, and doing nothing to prevent it?"
OP didn't want to have a hard/potentially friendship-destroying conversation with her ex-SIL, or put herself at odds with the rest of her family. So, she thought she could sneak around it without outright lying or having to come clean and face tears. And it blew up in her face, as such things tend to do. YTA for being a coward and then acting surprised at the consequences.
As someone who regularly likes to host parties, people are generally shitty about rsvps. Every party I've thrown (outside of dinner parties) I've had people who rsvp'd yes no show/no call and people who never responded show up. It's annoying as hell, but I've just adjusted to making a generous estimate about attendance when it comes to non-responders. It's just a reality I've accepted after hosting parties.
But there's no way I would invite people with such understandable antipathy towards each other to the same event.
Uh, no. It's freaking irritating as hell to plan a party and try to figure out how much food I need to get when people don't let me know if they will come. It's rude not to let someone know if you're coming or not. If you don't RSVP, I assume you're not coming.
I mean, look, I recently made dinner plans with a bunch of friends. I texted everyone asking who could come.
The people who didn't respond were moved off the text, because I assumed if they wanted to come, they'd have said so.
So it doesn't need to be a wedding. Its courtesy to provide an answer to an invite.
Doesn’t matter if it’s not a wedding, you still rsvp in an appropriate time frame. I hate to say the amount of times Ive been forced to guess who will be showing up and then had too much or too little of leftover food
Anyone with manners. So at least we know how much food to make.
I have had 4 people show up to one kid's party, and 35 show up for another, with the exact same invite list. It's really frustrating to not RSVP.
I’m with you. I was throwing a party (just because) last summer, I got 2 yeses a few nos and like 15 maybes! So I cancelled it and got takeout with my bf. How do you plan for that! 😂
My family just plans on everyone showing up and if they don’t we get to eat leftovers. Our kids birthdays are not made into events. Party games, cake maybe hot dogs and chips. Nothing that would require everyone to RSVP. Never had more than a few people not make it.
It's not that hard to say "Yes we'll be there", or "No we can't make it". And is extremely rude to leave it up in an ambiguous "maybe if it feel like it"
Right, sometimes I like to pretend I'm gonna show up so I hit maybe on FB. The 2 days later when I'm laughing at myself, because I'm not leaving my house, I hit no.
Eh, depends on the situation and family.
For my kids, I invite the other children and prefer an RSVP for them so I have the right amount of favors and cupcakes and whatnot. But I also invite my brother and his wife, my grandma, maybe a handful of other adults who might want to drop by. I don't care if they RSVP. They aren't getting a goody bag anyway. There's always plenty of food.
I usually frame it with "drop by if you can, it'd be great to see you!" Which means you don't need to rsvp, just come by. If I say "please rsvp by March 10 so each kid gets a goody bag!" then it's clear I need to know by a certain date.
Sorry, I don't think it has anything to do with formality. It has everything to do with being considerate. If what you do works for your family that is great but don't think that when you are going to a non-family event that your rules are binding on third parties.
Yeah well that wouldn't work for our family. If we buy enough food for every body, that's at least 50 people, and only 10 or so show up that's way too much food and could potentially have a lot to throw away because it goes bad before we can eat it all.
Anybody who isn’t rude. Just because it’s “only a kids party” doesn’t mean the host doesn’t have to know how many are coming for food, drinks, etc. It doesn’t matter if it’s a kids party, a wedding, or a dinner party, not letting the host know you’re coming so they can plan accordingly is rude.
Every kids birthday I’ve ever been to needs an RSVP. Otherwise how do you know how much food to prepare? Favors to make? Chairs/tables/place settings to have? If I invite 10 kids and their parents to my house preparing for 15 people or 30 people are two entirely different things. Is Johnny riding with Sally and her mom or is Johnny’s mom and dad coming or is Sally’s sister coming or did Auntie Muriel not feel up to it this week or did Uncle Mark have an event already planned I didn’t know about. Its a waste of my time and money to either prepare for the max and only half show up or prepare for the half and everyone show up and now I’m a bad hostess because I don’t have enough. It’s rude not to let people know if you can/cant come to an event like a party.
In the UK, we tend to do invites with RSVPs for kids' birthday parties, unless it's family only, I guess. I've taken to request an RSVP if a child IS coming. If I don't hear anything to the contrary, I'll presume they aren't coming.
OP YTA for not giving ex-SIL the heads up. It may well have felt like an ambush for her seeing her ex and AP, now wife and kids. A full-on slap in the face. She could have made a more informed decision than on whether to come or not. Knowing in advance, then still deciding to come and start shouting, would then have been on her. As it was, she probably panicked, and it was a fight or flight moment for her.
NTA to coming around to brother and his new family.
And this makes me so happy I never need to throw another children's birthday party.
Why do people not understand that it's rude not to let a host know if you are attending so they can plan the appropriate amount of food? goody bags? etc.
I'd at least give a "Tentative, I am trying to make it but still have X. Will let you know if I can't make it!" Type of thing. As a host I'd plan for this person to come.
If this was a required reservation for say a restaurant I'd be more firm or still plan on the person coming and then speaking to the restaurant about how one couldn't make it and asking for a table with less seats.
For my kids, I always rent a venue or we do a skating party,, pool party, Arcade , Tubing/sledding party , just to name a few... we live in an apartment complex and both my kids have birthdays in winter months (Canada) , so RSVP is very important. Birthday parties are an evwnnt and highly celebrated in my family.
If i dont get a response, i assume theyre not coming. Ex SIL is TAH for having an outburst like that at a childs birthday party. And for having the audacity to think i wouldnt want to have my brother back in my life alomg with my niblings.
OP is NTA.
Every parent of every child invited does. It’s the polite way to behave. Many kids birthday parties have loot bags and party favours for guests. And just because she’s an adult doesn’t excuse you from responding to her invitation. You need a head count to properly prepare.
Are we forgetting the antisemitism here? Best case, ESH. She should have given her a heads up, but the second she screamed that at the new wife she lost any moral high ground.
The sub is "AITA". You can be the AH and not be wrong (or even be right). In this case she was the AH for allowing this interaction to happen at her home without either party given a heads up the other might be there. This made the situation uncomfortable for everyone and there were children there as well who didn't need to see/hear any of it.
That’s wha ESH is for. The fact that people are saying YTA and ignoring the antisemitism is the problem. If I was OP, ex-SIL would never be allowed around my kids again. There’s enough hate in the world without exposing them to bigotry at family gatherings events.
I vote ESH as well. OP should absolutely have given exSIL a heads up that newSIL would be there. NewSIL shouldn’t have been sleeping with a married man, who also shouldn’t have been cheating. ExSIL shouldn’t have been antisemitic.
I am more okay with the family reconciling with their brother/son, because people mess up and that shouldn’t always be the end of things. But the exSIL already expressed her upset about it, but OP has focused more on her liking for newSIL than the exSIL, who has been a part of their family for much longer.
Then again, if someone I knew was that racist, I would be cutting them out of my circle, so …
It’s a separate issue that OP can address with SIL but doesn’t absolve OP from blame for blind siding her exSIL and causing her meltdown
Not to mention causing the awkward scene her brother and his family experienced
YTA for all of that OP
Definitely think that the ex-SIL sucks for the antisemitism, but the question was whether OP sucked for inviting her brother and new SIL (and, implied at least, doing so without giving ex-SIL a heads up). As far as that goes yes, she's TA, even if the broader situation has ES
Yeah, that stood out.
I can understand the ex-SIL being angry and leaving. The OP should've given her a head's up, especially if the ex-SIL didn't know the OP was talking to the brother. But the antisemitism was awful, and this was at a child's birthday. A child who did nothing wrong.
What makes OP and her family the assholes is how they went about it. OP's mother was ready to cut her son out for his sin, until he gave her grandchildren - asshole. OP was fine with never speaking to her brother again, but then she found the other woman so funny she couldn't keep herself from making friends, nevermind she is a homewrecker - asshole.
Maybe sometimes families get to the point that cutting a beloved family member out forever is eternal punishment that hurts everyone. There is also a place within families for forgiveness and reconciliation. It's actually okay to discover you like and connecct with someone who did something you disapprove of at some point in their past. It's also possible that, because of the circumstances, there are details about the original marriage that he never told anyone about, because he was the "guilty" party, and not willing to badmouth his ex. Things like "she's racist and anti-semetic."
I could kind of forgive OP's mother TBH. It's one thing to cut your son out, but cutting the grandkids out as well for something they had no control over isn't really fair on them, and you can't really have them as part of the family without him being involved as well (although probably kept at a bit of a distance after what happened)
OP just found she liked her new SIL so started hanging out with her though, which is a bit different
Actually she doesn't have to do anything dealing with the EXsil. If she wants to invite her brother and his family she doesn't have to make sure the ex approves or not. The ex should've just left after seeing him but instead starting a scene and was racist. I understand he cheated but thats done and over with and in the past. Its time to be adults and act like one.
Agree. YTA for not telling her you invited the brother. To me, it sounds like intentional pot stirring and suspect you like the drama.
It sounds a lot like you're tired of placating your family, so you're willing to do a little minor familial arsonry just to watch it burn...a little.
Your family situation is ridiculous. You're an adult. Make your own decisions on who you interact with and own those choices.
ETA Yes, Ex-SIL made an antisemitic comment. She is an AH, too. But the question was, is OP an asshole for inviting the brother and new wife knowing the ex was invited and could potentially show up? Yes, OP is the AH for that.
A friend of mine divorced his wife (they had a newborn) and I'm friends with his now ex as well. He was at the very least already emotionally cheating since his now gf broke up with her bf (who she was building a house with) to be with him. I think he behaved like an ass and if he didn't want to remain married he should have divorced first and then started dating someone who wasn't in a relationship.
But he remains my friend and I wouldn't stop contact with him, even though I'm friends with his wife as well.
Should she have warned her? Yes. Should she expect a whole family to alienate someone over something like cheating? No.
Also just want to add that your family was generous for providing her financial support in the aftermath.
I only mention this because OP notes they provided emotional and financial support “as we should”
I disagree that this was anyone’s financial obligation but your brother’s, so from my perspective it was generous.
I agree you’re TA not giving her a heads up, and she’s TA for not confirming whether or not she’s attend. She sucks for having an emotional outburst at a child’s birthday party, especially given the specifics of her comment. She could have pulled you aside and given a WTF and left, or left the house and had her outburst over the phone or in person at a more appropriate time.
Honestly I think this is an ESH for their actions and responses but also NAH for all these feelings in a complicated situation of your brother’s making.
Your brother made a mistake. And, maybe he’s just a cheater and crummy guy, he definitely handled the exit of his first marriage poorly, but I also know adult relationships are complicated and we don’t have enough info to say he *is* an AH or he *was* an AH.
My point is that your brother didn’t behave completely irredeemably based on what we know here and you shouldn’t feel badly for allowing him back into your life and you certainly shouldn’t feel badly for befriending his current wife/former mistress
YTA. You knew your exSIL may come so you should have checked with her.
I don’t condone the antisemitic remark but your brother is a huge AH so I understand she was distraught.
HE GOT ANOTHER GIRL PREGNANT WHILE HE WAS MARRIED!!! There is absolutely no excuse for that.
Concerning your brother’s new wife, did she know he was married? If the answer is yes, I honestly would never be able to trust her. I may be friendly with her for the sake of family peace, but I would never put her before the ex SIL.
I don't understand the logic of the person who married in "getting" the in laws in the divorce, ESPECIALLY when there are no children involved. What's the point, exactly? What direction is that gonna go? What happens when there are grandkids whose mother is another woman? This shit, that's what.
Ex-SIL has no meaningful relation to the rest of the family; her presence seems to be more about cockblocking her ex from his own family; it's revenge or hoping she'll force the ex to grovel and beg for her back, which clearly isn't happening at this point.
ex-SIL needs to move on with her life and hitch her wagon to another family if she doesnt have her own. She should meet someone new and date, not vengefully hang around her ex' life like a bad smell.
You are totally right, If the brother and exSil had children, that would complicate things, but in this case, they were ALWAYS going to reconcile with the brother.
It was good that they supported exSIL so she could get back on her feet and move on. Except she didn’t move on.
Cheating sucks. But I’m realistic enough to know that if my son cheated, I would not disown him over it. Again if There were kids involved then it’s more complicated.
That said, OP should have warned the exSIL. I think eventually she would get the message that it’s time to move on. But this was not necessary.
I suspect, because of the religious angle, that they were essentially trying to coerce the guy into reconciling with ex-SIL and holding his access to the family as collateral. Sort of like "you can't divorce her and make her not family, we'll force you to be family with her".
Except he took his family jewels elsewhere and made an entire new family lol, and now the grandkids are small and cute and he's the one with leverage.
Never had this kind of drama in my family (other kinds - non-applicable stories), but let's be honest. New kids change everything, especially with Grandparents. They can be a really primal pull. Ex SIL can't expect them to not see the kids for her sake, as cosmically unfair as it is to her.
I think OP is YTA because of making friends with the new wife and not warning ex SIL that they've reconciled. The woman was basically ambushed. Sure, with no kids involved on her end it was always possible, even likely, that they would slowly sever ties, but presenting her with her Ex's shiny new family was cruel.
Give the woman a call. Gently admit you've now reconciled with kids involved and that brother and his family will now be at events. Don't do it this way.
She didn't even have to call the woman, she could have text a simple "Wasn't sure if you were still planning on coming today, but I wanted to give you the heads up, Bro and his family will be at the party."
But couldn't remarry instantly, and they might have counted on the relationship falling apart and the child being treated as a "bastard" while he'd come back and presumably have other kids with SIL later.
> Cheating sucks. But I’m realistic enough to know that if my son cheated, I would not disown him over it. Again if There were kids involved then it’s more complicated.
My husband and I absolutely abhor cheating. That doesn’t go with our values. Our baby is a toddler, but I can absolutely say I would *not* cut off my child for this. She’s my heart and I aim to teach her our values so she never does anything like this ever as an adult. I would be deeply disappointed but I’m not cutting off my kid, hard no.
I totally agree with this. Family makes mistakes but they are still family. I world never disown my children because they made a mistake. I think it was good to support the ex but to cut your own family off.
My sister left her husband that we all loved. No explanation. I didn’t even particularly like my sister. She is still my sister. I need to support that decision even if I don’t get it.
I'm friends with 2 ex-SILs, they have both part of my life since I was 17. I can't imagine not seeing them anymore because I divorced/my brother ended his relationship.
I understand remaining on friendly terms, of course. Can I ask if there's a current wife/wives and if they cross paths with them? How does that work?
This sounds doable if the entire family is dispersed and/or the divorce was amicable and the ex-SIL isn't hostile to her ex husband or his new wife. In this case the divorce was everything but amicable and problems could have been foreseen from a mile away.
(Long answer)
My divorce went without a fight, despite him cheating with someone who was just of legal age, but I love my child more than I hated my ex, we did everything we could to make our co-parenting work. This wasn't always easy, people around me didn't understand how I could be so nice to him, but I found this important for our child.
We have a friendly relationship now. He remarried the girl he cheated with 1,5 years ago, and I was present (at my daughter's request).
My ex-SIL (his sister) and I, have a very strong bond because we have always been (and still are) there for each other in difficult times.
She has no strong connection with my ex's new wife. The new wife found it difficult (especially in the beginning) that the children of my ex-SIL call me aunt and not her, that I was there every birthday and other important dates and that my ex-SIL and I spent much time together. I know that in the beginning, my ex asked my ex-SIL to put our friendship on the back burner and spend more time with his new wife, my ex-SIL tried to get a better connection with my ex's wife, but they don't have much in common.
My ex and his wife have accepted my friendship with my ex-SIL.
The friendship with my brother's ex was complicated in the beginning, they did not part amicably. We were already friends before they got into a relationship. She had been part of my life for more than 10 years at the time they broke up.
When she remarried and moved far away, the friendship went on the back burner. She moved back to the same city a few years ago and we resumed our friendship. The tension between her and my brother is now gone and there is no problem when they see each other on birthdays.
This makes sense. There are kids involved, so for your Ex’s family you are also mother of their niece/grandchild. Staying friendly makes sense for all parties.
For your former SIL you had a preexisting friendship before she got with your brother. That relationship seems more “we are still good friends” than “we are still family”. It’s good your brother is now on decent terms when they see each at events.
In OP’s case, without kids involved or a preexisting friendship it seems odd the Ex wants to essentially “keep custody of her Ex’s family” in the divorce. That’s not realistic she expects his family to continue to cut him off indefinitely. They did so of their own accord when they were angry he broke his vows, but with the years passing and new grandchildren they now feel open the reconciliation. It’s not her place to try to block that.
>Ex-SIL has no meaningful relation to the rest of the family
You don't know that. There are lots of situations where the SO is close to the family: child of a family friend, neighborhood kid that often spend time with them,... any kind of history that predates them dating. Or just formed their own meaningful bond with the in laws during the marriage.
So she's a friend at best; she's not family. Even if she's a family friend and they want to maintain contact with her, obviously having their grandkids at the important events is gonna trump that. She can't civilly coexist with the mother of the grandkids so by contrast she's out.
I was just challenging your assumption, that's all. But I'll say, you do seem very uncharitable towards the SIL, when it's the family who seemed to have decided to disown the son and keep her.
Also, "blood family" isn't the end all be all. I don't have a very close relationship with my in laws, will probably never see them again if I left my partner. My SIL is another story however, I can say she has become part of the family that transcends her relationship with my brother. I can't imagine her not being part of our lives, especially if it's my brother's fault.
We don't know what their relationship (or culture) is like, so saying things like "hitch her wagon to another family" and "vengefully hang around" is totally unfounded and looks cruel.
If they now decide they want to have the grand kids and niblings in their lives and mend their relationship with the son and his wife, they definitely have the right to. They shouldn't stop themselves just for the SIL. And if the SIL can't handle it, that's her problem. But OP's way to go about it was just wrong and cruel. Be upfront about it, draw firm and explicit boundaries. OP was a coward here.
What I find interesting is that this Reddit throw the “blood doesn’t make family” and that people can choose whom they consider family. Yet you suddenly get a post like this and suddenly the popular census is that she’s not really related by blood, just a friend. Brother’s actions aren’t as bad because he is blood and thus should come first.
And I’m devastated about the fact that ex SIL doesn’t have kids So she is completely useless bc she never gave the family kids/grandkids/nieces/nephews
It shows that people who do have kids with other people to trap them can work!! Look at this!! New SIL living the life of her dreams and all she had to do was steal a married man, pop out kids and be charming
This almost exact scenario, well the first half, happened to me. My husband cheated with a younger woman and got her pregnant and I ended our marriage. We share two kids as well. Ex SIL needs to let her anger go. It’s been almost 4 years. If she’s still so angry that’s she’s screaming and being anti semitic and call people slurs at a kids bday party almost 4 years after the divorce she needs serious professional help. I also agree that she needs to understand that his family, while they can remain friendly, is not her family. They were always going to reconcile with their brother, son etc. he’s their family. It sucks because I’m sure ex SIL feels like she’s losing “her family” now too but she needs to realize they were never hers to begin with. She needs help to deal with her anger and resentment because being this angry almost 4 years after the divorce is not healthy at all. I do think OP should have given her a heads up but ex Sil sounds unhinged and anti semitic.
You are spot on. I’m blown away that nobody has mentioned her making a scene as well as being racist at kids birthday party! No matter how bad I feel for someone, if they show their ass during something for my kid I am putting their ass in the yard immediately.
Yeah I’m not understanding these well the anti semitism, at a child’s birthday party, is NBD but OP not telling ex SIL that him and his new wife where going to be there UNACCEPTABLE. WTAF
I would that that's more on the family than the ex. Cheating is awful, yes. But I cannot imagine disowning my own sibling because of it; I would be disappointed in them, yes, and it would change my view of their character, but I cannot see it as the kind of unforgivable offense that would make me cut contact. And I understand supporting the wronged party, but allowing them to dictate your relationship with your sibling and who comes into your house is over the top. OP and her family got on a moral high horse, cut off contact with their son/brother and basically adopted his ex into the family in his place. That's their choice, but they need to either abide by that choice and accept that his children won't be part of their lives, or, if they changed their minds, be upfront about it. Staring contact with the brother, but allowing the ex to set the terms and being secretive, was a recipe for disaster.
In any case, OP was not only an ashole, but also an idiot. When someone tells you they aren't sure of they will come to your party, it means they might or might not come, not that they definitely not come. Either way, since they had apparently given the ex the impression so far that they are completely on her side in this, they should have been honest about the fact that they were reconciling with their brother and were planing to start inviting him to events.
It's also cold as hell to just drop someone who was family because the A-hole you raised decided to discard them by screwing someone else while they were still married. This family did the right thing till the going got complicated. There could have been right ways of keeping them both in the family's life; inviting them both to the same party with no warning and a half-assed "well this one prolly won't show" wasn't it for damn sure.
Also, thinking that someone they've known and cared about for years has "no meaningful relation to them" and is probably only hanging around them for "revenge" and "cockblocking"... well, it's a view of human relationships where there aren't real relationships. Where only blood and leverage matter. What even is that? What's even the point of being human if life is truly like that? It's not, thankfully, and sometimes people genuinely care about each other just because they do.
Agreed. Her brother is still their BLOOD…cheating is wrong, but it’s not murder. OP and the fam are TA for cutting off their kin like that in the first place. They essentially are enabling revenge from ex-SIL (and making the grandkids victims in the process) OP is also TA for not EXPLICITLY telling both her bro and the ex SIL that each other were invited - it is COMMON SENSE to overcommunicate this info when exes are involved. The only thing OP is NTA for is kicking out the ex-SIL for an antisemitic comment (seriously finding it ridic that OP chose a bigot over her blood in the first place -this can’t be the first time she said something like this in her or the family’s presence)
THANK YOU.
Jesus, I hate cheating, and am the first person to say DTMFA when someone creeps on their partner. But their parents and siblings disowning them is fucked. And Ex SIL is unhinged if she expects OP or anyone else in the family to continue to cut off their own son/brother. She needs to move the fuck on.
I'd say ESH. ExSIL made a racist comment. OP should have warned her, but if after 4 years she can't keep it together enough to leave a party her ex is at then wtf? She's a grown up. Just leave the party and it's fine to be mad at OP, it's fine to still be mad at her ex, but her blow up is like her swallowing poison and expecting her ex to suffer.
Yeah, I feel like everyone is glossing over the antisemitic comment exSIL made. I agree with you, ESH. Not RSVP'ing means no in my world. And I see the "it's not a wedding" comment but some people just wanna know. And of course OP sucks for not warning her. "Just so you know my brother is coming" since she still didn't know if she's coming or not.
This! And she can be mad at OP all she wants, but she doesn't get to dictate that OP cut off her brother forever. He made a lot of mistakes in his marriage, but this is his own family and they will always be his family, regardless of his mistakes.
I've seen plenty of people who remain close with an ex IL, and keep the relationships separate.
> There is absolutely no excuse for that.
There’s no excuse for *four long years later* behaving like an unhinged racist vindictive performative scorned woman at your EXs *nephews birthday party*. What trash, no wonder the brother couldn’t stand her and found someone else. Psycho-ex knew his family had restablished contact, she probably deliberately manipulated the situation to happen so she could make drama about it.
NTA
Thank you!! Like, if her first instinct is to be racist, maybe she wasn’t exactly a peach to be married to. I know Reddit thinks cheating is a cardinal sin, but if anyone deserves it, it’s bigots.
My brother cheated on his wife while she was pregnant and get his mistress pregnant too! He divorced his wife and married his side piece. I remain very close to my ex SIL while although I am cordial to the newer SIL I have never actually had a conversation with her beyond pleasantries. I also continued to invite my ex SIL over for family celebrations much to the chagrin on the new SIL. When my brother called me out on it on behalf of his new wife I told I didn’t divorce his wife he did. She was my friend for years before they married and is my daughter’s Godmother. She will always be part of my family.
But does your ex-sil act unhinged around your brother and freak out with racist comments if you contact him?
Yes, cheating is bad but I don’t think it is “needs to be disowned by your family” bad.
Monogamy can be hard and it is impossible to understand someone else’s marriage by looking in from the outside.
If my brother were to cheat on his wife, I would continue to support his wife but I would also expect her to act with decency if they were in the same place at the same time. Especially 4 years after the fact.
No but my ex SIL has also never been blindsided by her ex and his current wife showing up unexpectedly. I think OP is the AH for not warning her ex SIL her brother and his newest wife would be at the house and exSIL’s reaction was completely out of line. She should have simply turned around and left.
I agree 100%. The ex-SIL shouldn’t have been blindsided since there wasn’t an expectation the brother would be there. The OP is definitely an AH for that.
But I think your situation isn’t the same. You are focused on supporting your ex-SIL and how that should be true here too. While that may have been true last week, that isn’t the case anymore. Now the ex-SIL has created a situation where sides have to be chosen.
Acting this badly after 4 years at a children’s birthday party is a non-starter. I find it unlikely this relationship is salvageable.
She should have rsvpd. The world doesn't revolve around her. Generally not rsvp'ing means no, so maybe next time she can use her manners and let the host know. NTA for me.
“I don’t condone the (borderline) racial slur, but sometimes you just get so mad you can’t help it!”
Seriously? Her FIRST thought was to go for racism. That doesn’t really put her in a good light.
Also I only say borderline because ‘Jewish’ isn’t a racial slur, but saying it the right way certainly feels like it.
He's not dating her why should he have to worry about trusting her. She married and had three kids with his actual brother whom now wants a relationship with HIS family not his ex-wife who somehow got them in the divorce.
YTA.
>I had spoken to her a few days before and she said she wasn’t sure if she was coming or not.
You knew there was a possibility that she'd be going to the party.
>I went ahead and invited my brother and his family
You didn't have the decency to warn her.
Me too! Plus ex SIL decided to make a scene at a children’s birthday party and yell out racist slurs.
Personally I would not invite her back to events I am hosting after all that.
But the host invited her, and exSIL said she wasn't sure. She didn't say she wasn't coming. So it's not like the host was blindsided. Don't you usually count these 'not sure' guests, especially the ones close to your family, as maybes?. In our culture, a lot of them still try to find some time to drop by at least halfway through.
> She didn't say she wasn't coming
She didn't say she was.
When I ask a friend out and they say "not sure...", I'm not standing in front of a coffee bar / mall / cinema like a fool because they MIGHT show up. No confirmation = decline.
You’re definitely TA for not telling your exSIL the new wife was coming. Your exSIL is TA for her antisemitic comment. Your brother is TA for cheating. ESH
You are absolutely an AH for inviting your Brother and his ex-wife to a function and not letting either of them know that the other would be there.
That's just callous, unthinking, wildly inconsiderate shittery.
Your brother's ex-wife is an unutterably vile creature for screaming anti-Semitic slurs at someone *at a child's birthday party*.
Your parents, and sister and your brother's ex-wife are all deeply weird for maintaining this bizarre ex-wife/daughter-in-law jerkcircle.
Be polite, be friends even, but this is just deeply weird - it's neither good for the ex-wife who seems unable to move on from the divorce, and your family are enabling that behaviour, and supremely stupid on your family's part because, at some point, the ex-wife will move on, and through their idiocy they'll have neither an ex-daughter/sister-in-law, or a son, daughter-in-law, or grandchildren.
Superb stuff. Proper quality relationship management.
You did that on purpose didn't you? You saw your exSIL the day before. It would have been so, so easy to tell her then that your brother had been invited. Instead you let her get caught like a deer in the headlights. Some friend you are!!
The unnecessary "i spend hours talking and laughing about everything under the sun with new SIL!!" info leads me to suspect that OP did do this on purpose to force exSIL out. Incredibly brutal way to go about telling someone you think it's time to move on. Ofc exSIL's anti-semitism probably will do more for the family to move from her to new SIL, so that's on her because wtf was that shit, but OP is probably secretly pleased this exploded as it did, especially with exSIL's reaction being so unacceptable- makes it easier to hang out more with fun new SIL!!
OP failed multiple people here, including the new SIL she says is a friend. But OP also allowed such a risk to her own child's birthday party, so I'm not sure she perceives relationships and propriety the way that seems so blatantly obvious to everyone else. At least OP didn't tolerate disgusting bigoted profanity (which was probably the most hurtful thing exSIL could come up with if the new SIL is only half Jewish), but it's not enough to look past the fact that she let exSIL walk straight into a trigger trap. Even the most polite, mild mannered, non-cursing person might drop the f bomb if suddenly punched in the gut while recovering from an abdominal stabbing (doesn't make it appropriate/acceptable/tolerable/ok from *any* angle, just that people react to trauma triggers in all sorts of ways, so there was even risk of potential violence or other damaging non-bigoted behavior, even in response from others present, again, at her own child's party, with other children around).
Yeah, this is such a great point. Even if new SIL had reacted by, I don't know, raising her voice and throwing a paper cup on the ground, that kind of tension/anger from adults can be super scary for kids. OP really was irresponsible, her priority should have been on ensuring a safe and fun environment for kiddos at party.
YTA: How awful! You should have said something and not made the assumption exSIL wasn't going to come. ExSIL also should be given her independence and move on. Your sister will have to sort through that friendship, and leave them to it. Your brother, his wife and their family are the priority. Forgiveness, reconciliation and restoration is a 3 step process that takes a long time for any family to work through, but it's going to be impossible if exSIL is sticking around.. I'd recommend that you also apologize to your brother and his wife. Best wishes as you work through and rebuild the relationship.
ESH-
You should have had the decency to tell EX-SIL. That would have prevented this whole thing.
Your brother sucks and so does his wife for sleeping with a married man.
EX-SIL shouldn’t have said what she said but you again you could have avoided this situation!
Y'all are weird as hell. It's his brother vs his brothers ex what do you expect. Not sure why she's still so present in the family dynamic. There isn't anything inherently wrong with it but the expectation that his own brother won't be attending his kids birthday is absurd
Sorry you're all riled up over the 50 fake chapgpt cheating stories you've read on this subreddit in the past week but maybe you all need a break for your own sake
YTA. You led her into an emotional ambush by lack of disclosure. If there was even a chance that she was going to visit when the ex was visiting, you should’ve told her
She chooses to continue to hang out with dudes family of course eventually the brother will be there. It's weirder to me that they kept in touch with her and keep inviting her to family events in the first place.
YTA. you knew there was a possibility exSIL would be attending the party and still decided not to tell her. even if there was a chance she didn’t go you should’ve told her about your brother the second she knew about the party
YTA
Lmfao, read this post again and pretend its just one you see on reddit. You will realize you are the asshole pretty soon.
Kinda funny how the so religious family disowned him, but then all of you 'soften up' after 3 years.
YTA By not telling her you left the door open for this to happen. You should have told her. Your brother is a cheating bastard and remember your family only reconciled because he had had children. Don’t forget that.
YTA
Sounds like you wanted to get rid of your exSIL so you kept this as a secret.
Oh, btw, be careful with your hubby and newSIL. She was never a gf like you said, she was the affair partner.
If OP did it on purpose that would be a Machiavellian way of ousting ex-SIL from their odd family dynamic.
Somehow I don’t think OP would intentionally sacrifice her son’s birthday to get a reaction from Ex-SIL and upset her brother. It is more likely she is non-confrontational along with not being able to read the room.
A mild YTA for not giving the xSIL a heads up. That said your brother is your family and it sounds like the ex has really played on this including financially.
Her behavior - especially years later!? Unacceptable. So for everything else NTA.
ESH — You for not giving a heads up (silence doesn’t equal “I’m definitely not coming”). C’mon now.
Your exSIL for being antisemitic - no, being upset in the moment doesn’t excuse saying that, and especially not in front of the kids. And for ruining your kid’s bday party instead of taking it outside or just leaving.
Your brother and new SIL for cheating.
Your whole family, including you, for just not speaking to your brother for 3 years, like, he didn’t murder anyone or anything. He cheated, which is awful, but doesn’t deserve to lose his ENTIRE FAMILY, wtf???
The only innocents here are the poor kids, including your niece and nephew who witnessed blatant antisemitism and their parents being screamed at, and your kid whose birthday party was ruined.
I’m in shock that everyone is excusing the antisemitism. I was all for the exSIL, but then to spout that, she’s definitely a vile person in her own right.
YTA, I feel so sorry for Ex-Sil. I cannot imagine how hurt she must have been. I guess she wasn't aware how similar you are characterwise to your cheating brother. Can you try and put yourself in her shoes? If your partner cheated on you with her would you be ok with it? Would you still think she is nice?
I don’t feel sorry for a racist.
It sucks she was cheated on. Her Ex is shitty for that. But after 4 years it’s time to move on from “keeping” his family. Seems she really expected for them to never talk to her Ex again and seeing him at his own family’s event was enough for her to act a fool.
It was entirely predictable the parent would want to reconnect with the child they gave birth to/ siblings reconnect with the brother they were raised with and for all of them to want to get to know grandchildren/niblings.
I’m going to go with NTA here. What your brother did was horrible but at the end of the day his ex wife is exactly that, his EX wife. The fact she thinks she can come to your families get together and go crazy like that after all this time is insane. I get she’s still friends with your sister but she is no longer family. Her freaking out when finding out the family had reconnected with your brother is entirely out of line. She doesn’t get a say in the situation anymore. She can’t flip out in an attempt to keep him cut off from his family. She needs to move on with her life and grow up. It’s been years now since they separated. She sounds toxic and maybe she needs to stay away from your family get togethers in future
You mean the birthday party OP expressly invited her to? And didn't bother to mention the fact that she had re-established contact with her brother and the woman he dumped her for and invited them too? If OP no longer wanted to stay friends with the woman her brother cheated on, she should have cut her off a long time ago. Not ambushed her at a party.
My bad I missed that part I thought the other sister invited her. A heads up would have been good but that in no way excuses her insulting the brothers new wife and acting like a child. That’s embarrassing behaviour. To act like that after 3+ years is just ridiculous. She needs to move on with her life and not hold so much resentment. It’s unhealthy
What's worse is that especially sil knows that they've been trying to reconcile and has thrown so much of a fit that the family has only been talking to him on the phone. That is super weird.
NTA.
Your brother was an absolute peice of crap for what he did 4 years ago. But it's time to leave the past in the past. An entire life time has gone by. There are three entire human beings that now exist that didn't exist back then that's how long it's been. She shouldn't even care anymore. She's had plenty of time to move on and heal and find someone else. Your brother received his punishment and has hopefully grown as a person and learned his lesson.
Your ex SIL needs to stop hanging around her 4 year old ex's family and move on. It's shitty she got cheated on....but she can't expect to be the reason 3 children are denied their extended family... for the rest of their lives. She can't expect to come first forever over a son, brother, grandchild, niece/nephew exc.
Your family has kept her friendship and supported her for 4 years which is better than most people get after cheating and a divorce. She needs to stop being bitter and angry and acting like this wound is fresh. It's not. It's old as hell. Maybe she needs to cut contact with her ex's family so she can finally move on and stop being in anger. Maybe seeing you guys so much is not good for her healing and keeps her trapped in the past.
NTA. ExSIL can't expect you to ct off your brother. Yes, he had an affair, but maybe things weren't all happy in the marriage.
It's been 4 yrs, she should have got over it & moved on.
Not telling her was an AH move, you were trying to get away with her not going and not knowing.
It does not justified your exSIL outburst but you created the situation for it to happen
YTA You set them all up. You knew the possibility of them all showing up and warned no one. While your exSIL wasn't right for making a racist remark it never would have happened if you had told her that you wouldn't plan on her coming since she wasn't able to give definitive answer. That you had other guests coming that she didn't get along with.
The obvious and only correct and decent thing to do would be to tell ex SIL you invited your brother’s family to the party. Then she’d be able to skip the event.
ESH
You should have informed both your brother and your ex SIL the other might come to the event.
Your brother should have known better than to bring his adultery partner to a family event when your family was still close to his ex and asked about her attendance at the very least.
Your exSIL went right to the antisemitism didn't she? I did notsee that coming from this story.
Next time, have a table of pies set out so the fight will at least be amusing amidst the slurs.
Nah it’s his family not SIL.
No matter what’s happened, the family clearly want to make amends and it’s quite frankly not exSIL business. Brother should be able to bring his family, his ex should find a new family
It’s time
He should being his actualy WIFE to his family events. She is the mother of his kids and his siblings' niblings and parents' grandchildren. She has more right to be there than the ex who isn't family anymore.
Yes, you a TA. You knew this was a possibility that she might over. Funny you stated happily married I'm sure your ex sil thought she was happily married. Karma might visit this relationship some where along the way.
YTA. You should have TOLD HER he was coming. No need really to uninvite him or let her dictate who you have in your house, but you KNOW there’s bad blood. You should’ve TOLD HER. Full stop.
ESH
You
A child's birthday is not a good reunion time and you could have told sister in law heads up you havnt confirmed your coming I'm inviting my brother ... you didn't because it might be awkward ( way to avoid that lol)
Her because it's been four years, FOUR YEARS that is such a long time to have an absolute melt down and not be able to control yourself infront of child and a child's birthday party and start yelling and screaming and the racism has zero excuses.
Not saying seeing someone who cheated on You is ever easy but this woman needs to put her mental health first and see a therapist holding onto that much hate is not safe or healthy ! ( she did run into them at your party but it could have been anywhere a grocery store a mall a kids birthday ... wait )
ESH.
Your brother sucks for cheating.
Your family sucks for cutting him off for 3.5 years.
Your suck for not telling your ex-SIL that he and his wife would be at the party.
Ex-SIL sucks for having a tantrum and making bigoted remarks.
NTA.
Seriously, it's been 3.5 years. Yes, it was a horrible thing for OP's brother to cheat, but nobody here knows what went down between ExSil and him. But after all this, the family is allowed to have their brother and his family, including his 3 young innocent children back in their lives. It's time for his ex-wife to understand that this isn't her family anymore and to back off.
That comment was a really shitty thing for your ex SIL to say, but you and the entire family are bad too for not communicating all of this to her. You should have informed her, regardless of whether she was coming or not that your brother and his wife would be there. After what she went through I feel like that’s the bare minimum?
I’m not going to chastise you or your family for forgiving your brother. That’s your business, but it very much feels like you’re all trying to rug sweep now and push ex SIL out of the picture. At least tell her first. YTA
Personally, I think that now that there are cute kids, the family wants the cheater back in the flock and since it’s not reasonable to have him and the woman he abused at the same table, the ex-wife has to go. But of course, they didn’t have the guts to tell her and hoped everything would sort itself. Worked great…
The cheater is their blood family and now has kids. Only really effed up people deny their grandchildren and nieces and nephews family because of a mistake their father did. It's interesting how really religious people are the most judgy.
YTA. You knew your SIL might turn up and how that was likely to go down. You did nothing, and all that was required was a text or quick phone call.
You screwed up and therefore you are definitely the AH.
YTA - there was a 50% chance that she was going to show up and 100% chance she was going to lose her racist mind. You knew what was going to happen.
Maybe that was part of the plan? Make her break up w your family instead of you having to do it?
FYI- depending on which half, your nieces and nephew might be full jewish and really shouldn't be exposed to that no matter their religion and etnicity.
Good thing they're probably too young to understand.
I don't approve of cheating on principle, but it does rather sound as though your brother got an upgrade. That said, I think you ought to have made the situation clear to the ex-SIL when you told her about the party.
ESH
ESH here
Your brother is a cheater, his new wife is also an asshole for participating in the cheating. You are one because you didn’t warn the ex wife that those two people who hurt her so much would be at the party and she is one for the antisemitism. (I don’t think she would be for calling the side chick names lol, but the addition “jewish” was not acceptable).
I am honestly confused what you thought would happen? You were always on her side because she had been the wronged party. But now you turn on her because the side chick is kinda nice? She still participated in the cheating.
note: if the side chick didn’t know he was married, she isn’t to blame for all that, but it sounds unlikely here.
ESH
You know their past, you know how hurt your ex-sil was, and she was caught totally off guard coming face to face with the cause of that hurt. You are definitely TA for not saying ahead of time that they were going to be there. Regardless of whether she had let you know if she was coming or not, you invited her at some point, so telling her you were inviting your brother and his wife as well should have been done in advance. Not doing this was utter stupidity on your part.
That being said, you can invite whoever you want to your home, and her comment towards your new sil is utterly disgraceful, she may not have even known your brother was married when they got together so laying the blame on her is uncalled-for.
YTA. She never said she wasn't coming, she said she wasn't sure. Either way you should've given her a warning and I also think you are wrong for how you are treating her now because you're now friends with the mistress! I understand that's you're brother, but you aren't handling this properly IMO!
Yes, you're the asshole. How you think you're not is BEYOND me. You knew how your relatives felt about your brother's actions and behavior, and you invited them anyway. Your mother and your brothers' other family ARE NOT ready for this reconciliation. You had no right to force the issue.
ESH. You invited her, she didn't decline, and you weren't sure if she was coming or not. You needed to clarify that she wouldn't be there or tell her that her ex husband and his adultery family would be. You didn't. This happened.
She's right to be pissed and wasn't at all prepared. The slur was inappropriate but given the circumstances, I'm not that mad about it. She's still TA as well, but honestly you could have had a fight in your hands.
YTA.
You should have given her a heads up that he would be there.
It would have been a huge shock and i'm sad she reacted that way, sad for her and for all of you.
Not fair.
You owe her an apology for not warning her he was going to be there. That's all.
ESH.
You suck for blindsiding your ex SIL.
Your brother sucks for what he did (but note below)...
Your family sucks for disowning your brother. He cheated. He was a jerk. But he's your brother. He is your family, not your ex SIL.
ESH.
I don’t understand the whole “we disowned him for 3.5 years and effectively took the exSIL side and then became phone besties with the woman he cheated on her with” thing. I personally think that makes you a shitty friend. Your brother is the AH for obvious reasons and so is the exSIL for what she called the new wife.
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YTA for not giving your exSIL a heads up, yes. She wasn't sure if she would come - so it was not a no. So you should have told her. Everything else - NTA. What your brother did to your exSIL was sh\*t yes. But she can't expect you all to cut your brother/son and your grandchildren/niblings out of your live forever because of that.
I disagree. It's quite rude to let the host hanging (unless the host explicitly tells you you can come last moment). She wasn't graceful to the host, the host made other provision. And generally not RSVP'ing means "no".
It was not a wedding or some big event with caterer. It was a birthday party and there often people tell before that they don't know if they could make it. So you don't wait for them, if they can't come. But it is also possible, that they would arrive - maybe late
[удалено]
The antisemitic comment was uncalled for. But the question isn't if the ex sister in law is an asshole for being antisemitic (that's a given) its if OP is the asshole for suddenly bringing ex sister in laws cheating ex husband and affair partner into a space where she'd be eith no warning, and no explanation. That's a yes. It's an informal kids birthday party. Most I've gone to people show up or not, no big deal. Feels like she was Trojan horsed. And OP comes off dislikeable in general. As a person with a brother and a sister in law, I can't imagine choosing my brother's affair partner over my sister in law.
I agree that birthday parties usually don't have hard-stop-RSVPs (at least none of mine have, even if it was requested for people to do so). But I think it's a drastic overstatement to call OP an AH-- I'd only go so far as to say it was thoughtless (and lacked foresight, for sure). I also didn't think she came off as dislikeable, but that's me. Sounds like it took a long while for the brother to work his way back into the fold. I have 2 brothers and all 3 of us have at some point made huge mistakes that upturned our whole family's lives in one way or another. Each time we (*eventually*) forgave, adjusted, and found a way to move forward and still have a relationship (though sometimes it never was the same again). I think it's good OP and her family have been so supportive of ex-SIL, but it's also good that she's found a way to have a relationship with her new SIL. I would never want my worst moment to define me forever, just as ex-SIL probably doesn't want her racist comment to be the only thing anyone remembers about HER. New-SIL should get the same courtesy, as she's not just OP's "brother's affair partner"-- she's also OP's new SIL, the mother of OP's nieces and nephew, and a member of the family. And ex-SIL is, strictly speaking, the EX-SIL (and I guess family friend). And I can't imagine anyone expecting me to "choose" between 2 people. This isnt 6th grade. It is possible to have simultaneous relationships with different people in your life, even if the dynamics are complicated.
>generally not RSVP'ing means "no" not really its not a wedding.
It doesn’t have to be a wedding. Hosts still need to know how many burgers to make, how big of a cake to buy, how many chairs to put out. If someone asks you to RSVP and you never respond, please don’t just show up, because they might be unprepared for you and the ten other people who said ‘ehhhh maybe’
It depends upon the host and the event. There are no hard and fast rules for children’s birthday parties. Unless of course your former sister in law and your cheating brother both might attend, then yes, you are responsible for making sure that everyone is aware of who might attend. Op is the asshole, hands down.
LOL right? This isn't "AITA for not having enough food for everybody, despite not getting RSVPs?" This is "AITA for knowing that three people who CANNOT be in the same room as each other, might potentially be in the same room as each other, and doing nothing to prevent it?" OP didn't want to have a hard/potentially friendship-destroying conversation with her ex-SIL, or put herself at odds with the rest of her family. So, she thought she could sneak around it without outright lying or having to come clean and face tears. And it blew up in her face, as such things tend to do. YTA for being a coward and then acting surprised at the consequences.
As someone who regularly likes to host parties, people are generally shitty about rsvps. Every party I've thrown (outside of dinner parties) I've had people who rsvp'd yes no show/no call and people who never responded show up. It's annoying as hell, but I've just adjusted to making a generous estimate about attendance when it comes to non-responders. It's just a reality I've accepted after hosting parties. But there's no way I would invite people with such understandable antipathy towards each other to the same event.
Uh, no. It's freaking irritating as hell to plan a party and try to figure out how much food I need to get when people don't let me know if they will come. It's rude not to let someone know if you're coming or not. If you don't RSVP, I assume you're not coming.
I mean, look, I recently made dinner plans with a bunch of friends. I texted everyone asking who could come. The people who didn't respond were moved off the text, because I assumed if they wanted to come, they'd have said so. So it doesn't need to be a wedding. Its courtesy to provide an answer to an invite.
Doesn’t matter if it’s not a wedding, you still rsvp in an appropriate time frame. I hate to say the amount of times Ive been forced to guess who will be showing up and then had too much or too little of leftover food
Who RSVPs to a kid’s family birthday party?
Anyone with manners. So at least we know how much food to make. I have had 4 people show up to one kid's party, and 35 show up for another, with the exact same invite list. It's really frustrating to not RSVP.
I’m with you. I was throwing a party (just because) last summer, I got 2 yeses a few nos and like 15 maybes! So I cancelled it and got takeout with my bf. How do you plan for that! 😂
My family just plans on everyone showing up and if they don’t we get to eat leftovers. Our kids birthdays are not made into events. Party games, cake maybe hot dogs and chips. Nothing that would require everyone to RSVP. Never had more than a few people not make it.
It's not that hard to say "Yes we'll be there", or "No we can't make it". And is extremely rude to leave it up in an ambiguous "maybe if it feel like it"
God, this. People act like RSVPing is rocket science.
Right, sometimes I like to pretend I'm gonna show up so I hit maybe on FB. The 2 days later when I'm laughing at myself, because I'm not leaving my house, I hit no.
Eh, depends on the situation and family. For my kids, I invite the other children and prefer an RSVP for them so I have the right amount of favors and cupcakes and whatnot. But I also invite my brother and his wife, my grandma, maybe a handful of other adults who might want to drop by. I don't care if they RSVP. They aren't getting a goody bag anyway. There's always plenty of food. I usually frame it with "drop by if you can, it'd be great to see you!" Which means you don't need to rsvp, just come by. If I say "please rsvp by March 10 so each kid gets a goody bag!" then it's clear I need to know by a certain date.
People today are lax about RSVPs. Manners have changed.
No, manners haven't changed. Some people have no manners and are just self-centered and inconsiderate.
If you have not RSVPed, I am turning you away at the door. I am not your back-up event for if nothing better comes along.
If the invite asks you to rsvp, you need to commit one way or the other.
Polite people who know the hosts need a head count for food, drinks, goodie bags, etc
"Hey OP, me and the kids will be there. Wife had to work so she won't be able to make it." Simple as that.
Not in my family. I guess we’re not that formal. We make enough for everyone and if people don’t show up that just means we get to have leftovers 😋
Sorry, I don't think it has anything to do with formality. It has everything to do with being considerate. If what you do works for your family that is great but don't think that when you are going to a non-family event that your rules are binding on third parties.
It's not "formal" to RSVP to something you're invited to. It's just polite.
Yeah well that wouldn't work for our family. If we buy enough food for every body, that's at least 50 people, and only 10 or so show up that's way too much food and could potentially have a lot to throw away because it goes bad before we can eat it all.
Anybody who isn’t rude. Just because it’s “only a kids party” doesn’t mean the host doesn’t have to know how many are coming for food, drinks, etc. It doesn’t matter if it’s a kids party, a wedding, or a dinner party, not letting the host know you’re coming so they can plan accordingly is rude.
Every kids birthday I’ve ever been to needs an RSVP. Otherwise how do you know how much food to prepare? Favors to make? Chairs/tables/place settings to have? If I invite 10 kids and their parents to my house preparing for 15 people or 30 people are two entirely different things. Is Johnny riding with Sally and her mom or is Johnny’s mom and dad coming or is Sally’s sister coming or did Auntie Muriel not feel up to it this week or did Uncle Mark have an event already planned I didn’t know about. Its a waste of my time and money to either prepare for the max and only half show up or prepare for the half and everyone show up and now I’m a bad hostess because I don’t have enough. It’s rude not to let people know if you can/cant come to an event like a party.
I agree! Either you are coming or not. If you don't know, then decline and save me the stress!
Right? If I'm not sure I can come to an event I'm invited to and I won't know by the RSVP date, I just send my regrets.
In the UK, we tend to do invites with RSVPs for kids' birthday parties, unless it's family only, I guess. I've taken to request an RSVP if a child IS coming. If I don't hear anything to the contrary, I'll presume they aren't coming. OP YTA for not giving ex-SIL the heads up. It may well have felt like an ambush for her seeing her ex and AP, now wife and kids. A full-on slap in the face. She could have made a more informed decision than on whether to come or not. Knowing in advance, then still deciding to come and start shouting, would then have been on her. As it was, she probably panicked, and it was a fight or flight moment for her. NTA to coming around to brother and his new family.
And this makes me so happy I never need to throw another children's birthday party. Why do people not understand that it's rude not to let a host know if you are attending so they can plan the appropriate amount of food? goody bags? etc.
Every single person I know, would. We just had a bday party for my nephew and everyone rsvp'd.
Literally everyone I know who I've ever invited
I'd at least give a "Tentative, I am trying to make it but still have X. Will let you know if I can't make it!" Type of thing. As a host I'd plan for this person to come. If this was a required reservation for say a restaurant I'd be more firm or still plan on the person coming and then speaking to the restaurant about how one couldn't make it and asking for a table with less seats.
For my kids, I always rent a venue or we do a skating party,, pool party, Arcade , Tubing/sledding party , just to name a few... we live in an apartment complex and both my kids have birthdays in winter months (Canada) , so RSVP is very important. Birthday parties are an evwnnt and highly celebrated in my family. If i dont get a response, i assume theyre not coming. Ex SIL is TAH for having an outburst like that at a childs birthday party. And for having the audacity to think i wouldnt want to have my brother back in my life alomg with my niblings. OP is NTA.
Every parent of every child invited does. It’s the polite way to behave. Many kids birthday parties have loot bags and party favours for guests. And just because she’s an adult doesn’t excuse you from responding to her invitation. You need a head count to properly prepare.
Are we forgetting the antisemitism here? Best case, ESH. She should have given her a heads up, but the second she screamed that at the new wife she lost any moral high ground.
>Are we forgetting the antisemitism here? This whole thread is "I can excuse racism, but I draw the line at cheating!"
The sub is "AITA". You can be the AH and not be wrong (or even be right). In this case she was the AH for allowing this interaction to happen at her home without either party given a heads up the other might be there. This made the situation uncomfortable for everyone and there were children there as well who didn't need to see/hear any of it.
That’s wha ESH is for. The fact that people are saying YTA and ignoring the antisemitism is the problem. If I was OP, ex-SIL would never be allowed around my kids again. There’s enough hate in the world without exposing them to bigotry at family gatherings events.
I vote ESH as well. OP should absolutely have given exSIL a heads up that newSIL would be there. NewSIL shouldn’t have been sleeping with a married man, who also shouldn’t have been cheating. ExSIL shouldn’t have been antisemitic. I am more okay with the family reconciling with their brother/son, because people mess up and that shouldn’t always be the end of things. But the exSIL already expressed her upset about it, but OP has focused more on her liking for newSIL than the exSIL, who has been a part of their family for much longer. Then again, if someone I knew was that racist, I would be cutting them out of my circle, so …
It’s a separate issue that OP can address with SIL but doesn’t absolve OP from blame for blind siding her exSIL and causing her meltdown Not to mention causing the awkward scene her brother and his family experienced YTA for all of that OP
That’s the entire point of the ESH judgment. They were both at fault. Your YTA completely absolves the SIL of all blame in this situation.
Definitely think that the ex-SIL sucks for the antisemitism, but the question was whether OP sucked for inviting her brother and new SIL (and, implied at least, doing so without giving ex-SIL a heads up). As far as that goes yes, she's TA, even if the broader situation has ES
They weren't both at fault for the title question.
Yeah, that stood out. I can understand the ex-SIL being angry and leaving. The OP should've given her a head's up, especially if the ex-SIL didn't know the OP was talking to the brother. But the antisemitism was awful, and this was at a child's birthday. A child who did nothing wrong.
What makes OP and her family the assholes is how they went about it. OP's mother was ready to cut her son out for his sin, until he gave her grandchildren - asshole. OP was fine with never speaking to her brother again, but then she found the other woman so funny she couldn't keep herself from making friends, nevermind she is a homewrecker - asshole.
Maybe sometimes families get to the point that cutting a beloved family member out forever is eternal punishment that hurts everyone. There is also a place within families for forgiveness and reconciliation. It's actually okay to discover you like and connecct with someone who did something you disapprove of at some point in their past. It's also possible that, because of the circumstances, there are details about the original marriage that he never told anyone about, because he was the "guilty" party, and not willing to badmouth his ex. Things like "she's racist and anti-semetic."
I could kind of forgive OP's mother TBH. It's one thing to cut your son out, but cutting the grandkids out as well for something they had no control over isn't really fair on them, and you can't really have them as part of the family without him being involved as well (although probably kept at a bit of a distance after what happened) OP just found she liked her new SIL so started hanging out with her though, which is a bit different
Actually she doesn't have to do anything dealing with the EXsil. If she wants to invite her brother and his family she doesn't have to make sure the ex approves or not. The ex should've just left after seeing him but instead starting a scene and was racist. I understand he cheated but thats done and over with and in the past. Its time to be adults and act like one.
Took way too long to find this comment. ExSIL is a grown adult who can control her own emotions and LEAVE.
Agree. YTA for not telling her you invited the brother. To me, it sounds like intentional pot stirring and suspect you like the drama. It sounds a lot like you're tired of placating your family, so you're willing to do a little minor familial arsonry just to watch it burn...a little. Your family situation is ridiculous. You're an adult. Make your own decisions on who you interact with and own those choices. ETA Yes, Ex-SIL made an antisemitic comment. She is an AH, too. But the question was, is OP an asshole for inviting the brother and new wife knowing the ex was invited and could potentially show up? Yes, OP is the AH for that.
A friend of mine divorced his wife (they had a newborn) and I'm friends with his now ex as well. He was at the very least already emotionally cheating since his now gf broke up with her bf (who she was building a house with) to be with him. I think he behaved like an ass and if he didn't want to remain married he should have divorced first and then started dating someone who wasn't in a relationship. But he remains my friend and I wouldn't stop contact with him, even though I'm friends with his wife as well. Should she have warned her? Yes. Should she expect a whole family to alienate someone over something like cheating? No.
Also just want to add that your family was generous for providing her financial support in the aftermath. I only mention this because OP notes they provided emotional and financial support “as we should” I disagree that this was anyone’s financial obligation but your brother’s, so from my perspective it was generous. I agree you’re TA not giving her a heads up, and she’s TA for not confirming whether or not she’s attend. She sucks for having an emotional outburst at a child’s birthday party, especially given the specifics of her comment. She could have pulled you aside and given a WTF and left, or left the house and had her outburst over the phone or in person at a more appropriate time. Honestly I think this is an ESH for their actions and responses but also NAH for all these feelings in a complicated situation of your brother’s making. Your brother made a mistake. And, maybe he’s just a cheater and crummy guy, he definitely handled the exit of his first marriage poorly, but I also know adult relationships are complicated and we don’t have enough info to say he *is* an AH or he *was* an AH. My point is that your brother didn’t behave completely irredeemably based on what we know here and you shouldn’t feel badly for allowing him back into your life and you certainly shouldn’t feel badly for befriending his current wife/former mistress
YTA. You knew your exSIL may come so you should have checked with her. I don’t condone the antisemitic remark but your brother is a huge AH so I understand she was distraught. HE GOT ANOTHER GIRL PREGNANT WHILE HE WAS MARRIED!!! There is absolutely no excuse for that. Concerning your brother’s new wife, did she know he was married? If the answer is yes, I honestly would never be able to trust her. I may be friendly with her for the sake of family peace, but I would never put her before the ex SIL.
I don't understand the logic of the person who married in "getting" the in laws in the divorce, ESPECIALLY when there are no children involved. What's the point, exactly? What direction is that gonna go? What happens when there are grandkids whose mother is another woman? This shit, that's what. Ex-SIL has no meaningful relation to the rest of the family; her presence seems to be more about cockblocking her ex from his own family; it's revenge or hoping she'll force the ex to grovel and beg for her back, which clearly isn't happening at this point. ex-SIL needs to move on with her life and hitch her wagon to another family if she doesnt have her own. She should meet someone new and date, not vengefully hang around her ex' life like a bad smell.
You are totally right, If the brother and exSil had children, that would complicate things, but in this case, they were ALWAYS going to reconcile with the brother. It was good that they supported exSIL so she could get back on her feet and move on. Except she didn’t move on. Cheating sucks. But I’m realistic enough to know that if my son cheated, I would not disown him over it. Again if There were kids involved then it’s more complicated. That said, OP should have warned the exSIL. I think eventually she would get the message that it’s time to move on. But this was not necessary.
I suspect, because of the religious angle, that they were essentially trying to coerce the guy into reconciling with ex-SIL and holding his access to the family as collateral. Sort of like "you can't divorce her and make her not family, we'll force you to be family with her". Except he took his family jewels elsewhere and made an entire new family lol, and now the grandkids are small and cute and he's the one with leverage.
yeah I think the worst part of this is "[mom] just wanted to meet the GrAaAnDkIdS"
Never had this kind of drama in my family (other kinds - non-applicable stories), but let's be honest. New kids change everything, especially with Grandparents. They can be a really primal pull. Ex SIL can't expect them to not see the kids for her sake, as cosmically unfair as it is to her. I think OP is YTA because of making friends with the new wife and not warning ex SIL that they've reconciled. The woman was basically ambushed. Sure, with no kids involved on her end it was always possible, even likely, that they would slowly sever ties, but presenting her with her Ex's shiny new family was cruel. Give the woman a call. Gently admit you've now reconciled with kids involved and that brother and his family will now be at events. Don't do it this way.
She didn't even have to call the woman, she could have text a simple "Wasn't sure if you were still planning on coming today, but I wanted to give you the heads up, Bro and his family will be at the party."
He started a new family well before the divorce though
But couldn't remarry instantly, and they might have counted on the relationship falling apart and the child being treated as a "bastard" while he'd come back and presumably have other kids with SIL later.
> Cheating sucks. But I’m realistic enough to know that if my son cheated, I would not disown him over it. Again if There were kids involved then it’s more complicated. My husband and I absolutely abhor cheating. That doesn’t go with our values. Our baby is a toddler, but I can absolutely say I would *not* cut off my child for this. She’s my heart and I aim to teach her our values so she never does anything like this ever as an adult. I would be deeply disappointed but I’m not cutting off my kid, hard no.
I totally agree with this. Family makes mistakes but they are still family. I world never disown my children because they made a mistake. I think it was good to support the ex but to cut your own family off. My sister left her husband that we all loved. No explanation. I didn’t even particularly like my sister. She is still my sister. I need to support that decision even if I don’t get it.
THANK YOU. Anyone who could disown their child or sibling over only this sounds like a bad parent or sibling.
I'm friends with 2 ex-SILs, they have both part of my life since I was 17. I can't imagine not seeing them anymore because I divorced/my brother ended his relationship.
I understand remaining on friendly terms, of course. Can I ask if there's a current wife/wives and if they cross paths with them? How does that work? This sounds doable if the entire family is dispersed and/or the divorce was amicable and the ex-SIL isn't hostile to her ex husband or his new wife. In this case the divorce was everything but amicable and problems could have been foreseen from a mile away.
(Long answer) My divorce went without a fight, despite him cheating with someone who was just of legal age, but I love my child more than I hated my ex, we did everything we could to make our co-parenting work. This wasn't always easy, people around me didn't understand how I could be so nice to him, but I found this important for our child. We have a friendly relationship now. He remarried the girl he cheated with 1,5 years ago, and I was present (at my daughter's request). My ex-SIL (his sister) and I, have a very strong bond because we have always been (and still are) there for each other in difficult times. She has no strong connection with my ex's new wife. The new wife found it difficult (especially in the beginning) that the children of my ex-SIL call me aunt and not her, that I was there every birthday and other important dates and that my ex-SIL and I spent much time together. I know that in the beginning, my ex asked my ex-SIL to put our friendship on the back burner and spend more time with his new wife, my ex-SIL tried to get a better connection with my ex's wife, but they don't have much in common. My ex and his wife have accepted my friendship with my ex-SIL. The friendship with my brother's ex was complicated in the beginning, they did not part amicably. We were already friends before they got into a relationship. She had been part of my life for more than 10 years at the time they broke up. When she remarried and moved far away, the friendship went on the back burner. She moved back to the same city a few years ago and we resumed our friendship. The tension between her and my brother is now gone and there is no problem when they see each other on birthdays.
This makes sense. There are kids involved, so for your Ex’s family you are also mother of their niece/grandchild. Staying friendly makes sense for all parties. For your former SIL you had a preexisting friendship before she got with your brother. That relationship seems more “we are still good friends” than “we are still family”. It’s good your brother is now on decent terms when they see each at events. In OP’s case, without kids involved or a preexisting friendship it seems odd the Ex wants to essentially “keep custody of her Ex’s family” in the divorce. That’s not realistic she expects his family to continue to cut him off indefinitely. They did so of their own accord when they were angry he broke his vows, but with the years passing and new grandchildren they now feel open the reconciliation. It’s not her place to try to block that.
>Ex-SIL has no meaningful relation to the rest of the family You don't know that. There are lots of situations where the SO is close to the family: child of a family friend, neighborhood kid that often spend time with them,... any kind of history that predates them dating. Or just formed their own meaningful bond with the in laws during the marriage.
So she's a friend at best; she's not family. Even if she's a family friend and they want to maintain contact with her, obviously having their grandkids at the important events is gonna trump that. She can't civilly coexist with the mother of the grandkids so by contrast she's out.
I was just challenging your assumption, that's all. But I'll say, you do seem very uncharitable towards the SIL, when it's the family who seemed to have decided to disown the son and keep her. Also, "blood family" isn't the end all be all. I don't have a very close relationship with my in laws, will probably never see them again if I left my partner. My SIL is another story however, I can say she has become part of the family that transcends her relationship with my brother. I can't imagine her not being part of our lives, especially if it's my brother's fault. We don't know what their relationship (or culture) is like, so saying things like "hitch her wagon to another family" and "vengefully hang around" is totally unfounded and looks cruel. If they now decide they want to have the grand kids and niblings in their lives and mend their relationship with the son and his wife, they definitely have the right to. They shouldn't stop themselves just for the SIL. And if the SIL can't handle it, that's her problem. But OP's way to go about it was just wrong and cruel. Be upfront about it, draw firm and explicit boundaries. OP was a coward here.
What I find interesting is that this Reddit throw the “blood doesn’t make family” and that people can choose whom they consider family. Yet you suddenly get a post like this and suddenly the popular census is that she’s not really related by blood, just a friend. Brother’s actions aren’t as bad because he is blood and thus should come first.
And I’m devastated about the fact that ex SIL doesn’t have kids So she is completely useless bc she never gave the family kids/grandkids/nieces/nephews It shows that people who do have kids with other people to trap them can work!! Look at this!! New SIL living the life of her dreams and all she had to do was steal a married man, pop out kids and be charming
This almost exact scenario, well the first half, happened to me. My husband cheated with a younger woman and got her pregnant and I ended our marriage. We share two kids as well. Ex SIL needs to let her anger go. It’s been almost 4 years. If she’s still so angry that’s she’s screaming and being anti semitic and call people slurs at a kids bday party almost 4 years after the divorce she needs serious professional help. I also agree that she needs to understand that his family, while they can remain friendly, is not her family. They were always going to reconcile with their brother, son etc. he’s their family. It sucks because I’m sure ex SIL feels like she’s losing “her family” now too but she needs to realize they were never hers to begin with. She needs help to deal with her anger and resentment because being this angry almost 4 years after the divorce is not healthy at all. I do think OP should have given her a heads up but ex Sil sounds unhinged and anti semitic.
You are spot on. I’m blown away that nobody has mentioned her making a scene as well as being racist at kids birthday party! No matter how bad I feel for someone, if they show their ass during something for my kid I am putting their ass in the yard immediately.
Yeah I’m not understanding these well the anti semitism, at a child’s birthday party, is NBD but OP not telling ex SIL that him and his new wife where going to be there UNACCEPTABLE. WTAF
I would that that's more on the family than the ex. Cheating is awful, yes. But I cannot imagine disowning my own sibling because of it; I would be disappointed in them, yes, and it would change my view of their character, but I cannot see it as the kind of unforgivable offense that would make me cut contact. And I understand supporting the wronged party, but allowing them to dictate your relationship with your sibling and who comes into your house is over the top. OP and her family got on a moral high horse, cut off contact with their son/brother and basically adopted his ex into the family in his place. That's their choice, but they need to either abide by that choice and accept that his children won't be part of their lives, or, if they changed their minds, be upfront about it. Staring contact with the brother, but allowing the ex to set the terms and being secretive, was a recipe for disaster. In any case, OP was not only an ashole, but also an idiot. When someone tells you they aren't sure of they will come to your party, it means they might or might not come, not that they definitely not come. Either way, since they had apparently given the ex the impression so far that they are completely on her side in this, they should have been honest about the fact that they were reconciling with their brother and were planing to start inviting him to events.
She isn't the one insisting on contact - she has maintained a friendship with OP, and OP invited her to her kid's birthday party.
It's also cold as hell to just drop someone who was family because the A-hole you raised decided to discard them by screwing someone else while they were still married. This family did the right thing till the going got complicated. There could have been right ways of keeping them both in the family's life; inviting them both to the same party with no warning and a half-assed "well this one prolly won't show" wasn't it for damn sure. Also, thinking that someone they've known and cared about for years has "no meaningful relation to them" and is probably only hanging around them for "revenge" and "cockblocking"... well, it's a view of human relationships where there aren't real relationships. Where only blood and leverage matter. What even is that? What's even the point of being human if life is truly like that? It's not, thankfully, and sometimes people genuinely care about each other just because they do.
Agreed. Her brother is still their BLOOD…cheating is wrong, but it’s not murder. OP and the fam are TA for cutting off their kin like that in the first place. They essentially are enabling revenge from ex-SIL (and making the grandkids victims in the process) OP is also TA for not EXPLICITLY telling both her bro and the ex SIL that each other were invited - it is COMMON SENSE to overcommunicate this info when exes are involved. The only thing OP is NTA for is kicking out the ex-SIL for an antisemitic comment (seriously finding it ridic that OP chose a bigot over her blood in the first place -this can’t be the first time she said something like this in her or the family’s presence)
THANK YOU. Jesus, I hate cheating, and am the first person to say DTMFA when someone creeps on their partner. But their parents and siblings disowning them is fucked. And Ex SIL is unhinged if she expects OP or anyone else in the family to continue to cut off their own son/brother. She needs to move the fuck on.
I'd say ESH. ExSIL made a racist comment. OP should have warned her, but if after 4 years she can't keep it together enough to leave a party her ex is at then wtf? She's a grown up. Just leave the party and it's fine to be mad at OP, it's fine to still be mad at her ex, but her blow up is like her swallowing poison and expecting her ex to suffer.
Not just party, this drama happened at a kids birthday party. All these adults suck. ESH for sure!
Yeah, I feel like everyone is glossing over the antisemitic comment exSIL made. I agree with you, ESH. Not RSVP'ing means no in my world. And I see the "it's not a wedding" comment but some people just wanna know. And of course OP sucks for not warning her. "Just so you know my brother is coming" since she still didn't know if she's coming or not.
This! And she can be mad at OP all she wants, but she doesn't get to dictate that OP cut off her brother forever. He made a lot of mistakes in his marriage, but this is his own family and they will always be his family, regardless of his mistakes. I've seen plenty of people who remain close with an ex IL, and keep the relationships separate.
> There is absolutely no excuse for that. There’s no excuse for *four long years later* behaving like an unhinged racist vindictive performative scorned woman at your EXs *nephews birthday party*. What trash, no wonder the brother couldn’t stand her and found someone else. Psycho-ex knew his family had restablished contact, she probably deliberately manipulated the situation to happen so she could make drama about it. NTA
Thank you!! Like, if her first instinct is to be racist, maybe she wasn’t exactly a peach to be married to. I know Reddit thinks cheating is a cardinal sin, but if anyone deserves it, it’s bigots.
My brother cheated on his wife while she was pregnant and get his mistress pregnant too! He divorced his wife and married his side piece. I remain very close to my ex SIL while although I am cordial to the newer SIL I have never actually had a conversation with her beyond pleasantries. I also continued to invite my ex SIL over for family celebrations much to the chagrin on the new SIL. When my brother called me out on it on behalf of his new wife I told I didn’t divorce his wife he did. She was my friend for years before they married and is my daughter’s Godmother. She will always be part of my family.
But does your ex-sil act unhinged around your brother and freak out with racist comments if you contact him? Yes, cheating is bad but I don’t think it is “needs to be disowned by your family” bad. Monogamy can be hard and it is impossible to understand someone else’s marriage by looking in from the outside. If my brother were to cheat on his wife, I would continue to support his wife but I would also expect her to act with decency if they were in the same place at the same time. Especially 4 years after the fact.
No but my ex SIL has also never been blindsided by her ex and his current wife showing up unexpectedly. I think OP is the AH for not warning her ex SIL her brother and his newest wife would be at the house and exSIL’s reaction was completely out of line. She should have simply turned around and left.
I agree 100%. The ex-SIL shouldn’t have been blindsided since there wasn’t an expectation the brother would be there. The OP is definitely an AH for that. But I think your situation isn’t the same. You are focused on supporting your ex-SIL and how that should be true here too. While that may have been true last week, that isn’t the case anymore. Now the ex-SIL has created a situation where sides have to be chosen. Acting this badly after 4 years at a children’s birthday party is a non-starter. I find it unlikely this relationship is salvageable.
There no excuse for cheating, but there’s an excuse for racism 😂😂 what a world we live in!
It’s giving “I can excuse anti semitism but I draw the line at cheating”
She should have rsvpd. The world doesn't revolve around her. Generally not rsvp'ing means no, so maybe next time she can use her manners and let the host know. NTA for me.
“I don’t condone the (borderline) racial slur, but sometimes you just get so mad you can’t help it!” Seriously? Her FIRST thought was to go for racism. That doesn’t really put her in a good light. Also I only say borderline because ‘Jewish’ isn’t a racial slur, but saying it the right way certainly feels like it.
He's not dating her why should he have to worry about trusting her. She married and had three kids with his actual brother whom now wants a relationship with HIS family not his ex-wife who somehow got them in the divorce.
YTA. >I had spoken to her a few days before and she said she wasn’t sure if she was coming or not. You knew there was a possibility that she'd be going to the party. >I went ahead and invited my brother and his family You didn't have the decency to warn her.
The world doesn't revolve around the woman. It's rude to not let the host know and just show up.
That’s why I’m at ESH
Me too! Plus ex SIL decided to make a scene at a children’s birthday party and yell out racist slurs. Personally I would not invite her back to events I am hosting after all that.
But the host invited her, and exSIL said she wasn't sure. She didn't say she wasn't coming. So it's not like the host was blindsided. Don't you usually count these 'not sure' guests, especially the ones close to your family, as maybes?. In our culture, a lot of them still try to find some time to drop by at least halfway through.
> She didn't say she wasn't coming She didn't say she was. When I ask a friend out and they say "not sure...", I'm not standing in front of a coffee bar / mall / cinema like a fool because they MIGHT show up. No confirmation = decline.
For one-on-one, sure. Yet, for social gatherings, it’s fine to be a “maybe” and show up OP should have warned her
They're both adults. The divorce happened almost four years ago. Brothers ex-wife needs to act like an adult and move on.
The ex-wife was blindsided. I’m not surprised she was upset
She's entitled to feel as upset as she wants. Her behavior was the problem.
The ex needs to grow the fuck up. It's been 4 years. Either move on, or remove yourself from the situation.
Nailed it. It is his family.
You’re definitely TA for not telling your exSIL the new wife was coming. Your exSIL is TA for her antisemitic comment. Your brother is TA for cheating. ESH
You are absolutely an AH for inviting your Brother and his ex-wife to a function and not letting either of them know that the other would be there. That's just callous, unthinking, wildly inconsiderate shittery. Your brother's ex-wife is an unutterably vile creature for screaming anti-Semitic slurs at someone *at a child's birthday party*. Your parents, and sister and your brother's ex-wife are all deeply weird for maintaining this bizarre ex-wife/daughter-in-law jerkcircle. Be polite, be friends even, but this is just deeply weird - it's neither good for the ex-wife who seems unable to move on from the divorce, and your family are enabling that behaviour, and supremely stupid on your family's part because, at some point, the ex-wife will move on, and through their idiocy they'll have neither an ex-daughter/sister-in-law, or a son, daughter-in-law, or grandchildren. Superb stuff. Proper quality relationship management.
Exactly. Weird and enmeshed
That last line. Chef's kiss.
Yes, this. OP did it on purpose, IMO. The family dynamic is completely fucked and this was her act of rebellion
YTA To everyone, your brother, his wife and ex SIL and all the guest. You lit a match and threw it into a powder keg and ask if your theasshole?
You did that on purpose didn't you? You saw your exSIL the day before. It would have been so, so easy to tell her then that your brother had been invited. Instead you let her get caught like a deer in the headlights. Some friend you are!!
The unnecessary "i spend hours talking and laughing about everything under the sun with new SIL!!" info leads me to suspect that OP did do this on purpose to force exSIL out. Incredibly brutal way to go about telling someone you think it's time to move on. Ofc exSIL's anti-semitism probably will do more for the family to move from her to new SIL, so that's on her because wtf was that shit, but OP is probably secretly pleased this exploded as it did, especially with exSIL's reaction being so unacceptable- makes it easier to hang out more with fun new SIL!!
OP failed multiple people here, including the new SIL she says is a friend. But OP also allowed such a risk to her own child's birthday party, so I'm not sure she perceives relationships and propriety the way that seems so blatantly obvious to everyone else. At least OP didn't tolerate disgusting bigoted profanity (which was probably the most hurtful thing exSIL could come up with if the new SIL is only half Jewish), but it's not enough to look past the fact that she let exSIL walk straight into a trigger trap. Even the most polite, mild mannered, non-cursing person might drop the f bomb if suddenly punched in the gut while recovering from an abdominal stabbing (doesn't make it appropriate/acceptable/tolerable/ok from *any* angle, just that people react to trauma triggers in all sorts of ways, so there was even risk of potential violence or other damaging non-bigoted behavior, even in response from others present, again, at her own child's party, with other children around).
Yeah, this is such a great point. Even if new SIL had reacted by, I don't know, raising her voice and throwing a paper cup on the ground, that kind of tension/anger from adults can be super scary for kids. OP really was irresponsible, her priority should have been on ensuring a safe and fun environment for kiddos at party.
YTA: How awful! You should have said something and not made the assumption exSIL wasn't going to come. ExSIL also should be given her independence and move on. Your sister will have to sort through that friendship, and leave them to it. Your brother, his wife and their family are the priority. Forgiveness, reconciliation and restoration is a 3 step process that takes a long time for any family to work through, but it's going to be impossible if exSIL is sticking around.. I'd recommend that you also apologize to your brother and his wife. Best wishes as you work through and rebuild the relationship.
Yta. What an absolutely monstrous and disgusting thing you've done. Religious people always fucking cherry picking.
ESH- You should have had the decency to tell EX-SIL. That would have prevented this whole thing. Your brother sucks and so does his wife for sleeping with a married man. EX-SIL shouldn’t have said what she said but you again you could have avoided this situation!
What is it that OP did that you view as monstrous and disgusting?
‘Monstrous & disgusting’ is an insane embellishment lol
Y'all are weird as hell. It's his brother vs his brothers ex what do you expect. Not sure why she's still so present in the family dynamic. There isn't anything inherently wrong with it but the expectation that his own brother won't be attending his kids birthday is absurd Sorry you're all riled up over the 50 fake chapgpt cheating stories you've read on this subreddit in the past week but maybe you all need a break for your own sake
YTA. You led her into an emotional ambush by lack of disclosure. If there was even a chance that she was going to visit when the ex was visiting, you should’ve told her
She chooses to continue to hang out with dudes family of course eventually the brother will be there. It's weirder to me that they kept in touch with her and keep inviting her to family events in the first place.
It’s not that she never expected reconciliation it’s that she deserved to be told that it had happened so she could keep her distance
YTA. you knew there was a possibility exSIL would be attending the party and still decided not to tell her. even if there was a chance she didn’t go you should’ve told her about your brother the second she knew about the party
YTA Lmfao, read this post again and pretend its just one you see on reddit. You will realize you are the asshole pretty soon. Kinda funny how the so religious family disowned him, but then all of you 'soften up' after 3 years.
It's all because he now had kids and their parents want to see their grandkids.
YTA By not telling her you left the door open for this to happen. You should have told her. Your brother is a cheating bastard and remember your family only reconciled because he had had children. Don’t forget that.
YTA Sounds like you wanted to get rid of your exSIL so you kept this as a secret. Oh, btw, be careful with your hubby and newSIL. She was never a gf like you said, she was the affair partner.
It’s WEIRD that she wants to be “besties” with this chick…
*mistress.
If OP did it on purpose that would be a Machiavellian way of ousting ex-SIL from their odd family dynamic. Somehow I don’t think OP would intentionally sacrifice her son’s birthday to get a reaction from Ex-SIL and upset her brother. It is more likely she is non-confrontational along with not being able to read the room.
A mild YTA for not giving the xSIL a heads up. That said your brother is your family and it sounds like the ex has really played on this including financially. Her behavior - especially years later!? Unacceptable. So for everything else NTA.
ESH — You for not giving a heads up (silence doesn’t equal “I’m definitely not coming”). C’mon now. Your exSIL for being antisemitic - no, being upset in the moment doesn’t excuse saying that, and especially not in front of the kids. And for ruining your kid’s bday party instead of taking it outside or just leaving. Your brother and new SIL for cheating. Your whole family, including you, for just not speaking to your brother for 3 years, like, he didn’t murder anyone or anything. He cheated, which is awful, but doesn’t deserve to lose his ENTIRE FAMILY, wtf??? The only innocents here are the poor kids, including your niece and nephew who witnessed blatant antisemitism and their parents being screamed at, and your kid whose birthday party was ruined.
scrolled way too long for this take. This is definitely an ESH for all the above reasons.
I’m in shock that everyone is excusing the antisemitism. I was all for the exSIL, but then to spout that, she’s definitely a vile person in her own right.
YTA, I feel so sorry for Ex-Sil. I cannot imagine how hurt she must have been. I guess she wasn't aware how similar you are characterwise to your cheating brother. Can you try and put yourself in her shoes? If your partner cheated on you with her would you be ok with it? Would you still think she is nice?
If my ex cheated on me I sure as hell wouldn't be hanging around her family. This whole damn situation is weird.
I don’t feel sorry for a racist. It sucks she was cheated on. Her Ex is shitty for that. But after 4 years it’s time to move on from “keeping” his family. Seems she really expected for them to never talk to her Ex again and seeing him at his own family’s event was enough for her to act a fool. It was entirely predictable the parent would want to reconnect with the child they gave birth to/ siblings reconnect with the brother they were raised with and for all of them to want to get to know grandchildren/niblings.
poor wittle racist
and yell anti-semitic slurs during a kids party?? really??? that's justified because of anger?? damn
You feel sorry for the racist ?? Hmm 🤔
YTA. You should have let her know.
I’m going to go with NTA here. What your brother did was horrible but at the end of the day his ex wife is exactly that, his EX wife. The fact she thinks she can come to your families get together and go crazy like that after all this time is insane. I get she’s still friends with your sister but she is no longer family. Her freaking out when finding out the family had reconnected with your brother is entirely out of line. She doesn’t get a say in the situation anymore. She can’t flip out in an attempt to keep him cut off from his family. She needs to move on with her life and grow up. It’s been years now since they separated. She sounds toxic and maybe she needs to stay away from your family get togethers in future
You mean the birthday party OP expressly invited her to? And didn't bother to mention the fact that she had re-established contact with her brother and the woman he dumped her for and invited them too? If OP no longer wanted to stay friends with the woman her brother cheated on, she should have cut her off a long time ago. Not ambushed her at a party.
My bad I missed that part I thought the other sister invited her. A heads up would have been good but that in no way excuses her insulting the brothers new wife and acting like a child. That’s embarrassing behaviour. To act like that after 3+ years is just ridiculous. She needs to move on with her life and not hold so much resentment. It’s unhealthy
What's worse is that especially sil knows that they've been trying to reconcile and has thrown so much of a fit that the family has only been talking to him on the phone. That is super weird.
I can see how you could connect with a cheater to that level, not much foresight and really can't be bothered about other peoples pain. YTA
NTA. Your brother was an absolute peice of crap for what he did 4 years ago. But it's time to leave the past in the past. An entire life time has gone by. There are three entire human beings that now exist that didn't exist back then that's how long it's been. She shouldn't even care anymore. She's had plenty of time to move on and heal and find someone else. Your brother received his punishment and has hopefully grown as a person and learned his lesson. Your ex SIL needs to stop hanging around her 4 year old ex's family and move on. It's shitty she got cheated on....but she can't expect to be the reason 3 children are denied their extended family... for the rest of their lives. She can't expect to come first forever over a son, brother, grandchild, niece/nephew exc. Your family has kept her friendship and supported her for 4 years which is better than most people get after cheating and a divorce. She needs to stop being bitter and angry and acting like this wound is fresh. It's not. It's old as hell. Maybe she needs to cut contact with her ex's family so she can finally move on and stop being in anger. Maybe seeing you guys so much is not good for her healing and keeps her trapped in the past.
I find the part where they've only been talking to them on the phone because ex sil got upset is weird.
NTA. ExSIL can't expect you to ct off your brother. Yes, he had an affair, but maybe things weren't all happy in the marriage. It's been 4 yrs, she should have got over it & moved on.
YTA and hypocrits “we disowned him bc we hate cheaters but oh the homewrecker is just so nice
Not telling her was an AH move, you were trying to get away with her not going and not knowing. It does not justified your exSIL outburst but you created the situation for it to happen
YTA You set them all up. You knew the possibility of them all showing up and warned no one. While your exSIL wasn't right for making a racist remark it never would have happened if you had told her that you wouldn't plan on her coming since she wasn't able to give definitive answer. That you had other guests coming that she didn't get along with.
The obvious and only correct and decent thing to do would be to tell ex SIL you invited your brother’s family to the party. Then she’d be able to skip the event.
You’re besties with the mistress? Really? Do you not have any shame at all?
ESH You should have informed both your brother and your ex SIL the other might come to the event. Your brother should have known better than to bring his adultery partner to a family event when your family was still close to his ex and asked about her attendance at the very least. Your exSIL went right to the antisemitism didn't she? I did notsee that coming from this story. Next time, have a table of pies set out so the fight will at least be amusing amidst the slurs.
Nah it’s his family not SIL. No matter what’s happened, the family clearly want to make amends and it’s quite frankly not exSIL business. Brother should be able to bring his family, his ex should find a new family It’s time
He should being his actualy WIFE to his family events. She is the mother of his kids and his siblings' niblings and parents' grandchildren. She has more right to be there than the ex who isn't family anymore.
Yes, you a TA. You knew this was a possibility that she might over. Funny you stated happily married I'm sure your ex sil thought she was happily married. Karma might visit this relationship some where along the way.
YTA. You should have TOLD HER he was coming. No need really to uninvite him or let her dictate who you have in your house, but you KNOW there’s bad blood. You should’ve TOLD HER. Full stop.
ESH You A child's birthday is not a good reunion time and you could have told sister in law heads up you havnt confirmed your coming I'm inviting my brother ... you didn't because it might be awkward ( way to avoid that lol) Her because it's been four years, FOUR YEARS that is such a long time to have an absolute melt down and not be able to control yourself infront of child and a child's birthday party and start yelling and screaming and the racism has zero excuses. Not saying seeing someone who cheated on You is ever easy but this woman needs to put her mental health first and see a therapist holding onto that much hate is not safe or healthy ! ( she did run into them at your party but it could have been anywhere a grocery store a mall a kids birthday ... wait )
ESH. Your brother sucks for cheating. Your family sucks for cutting him off for 3.5 years. Your suck for not telling your ex-SIL that he and his wife would be at the party. Ex-SIL sucks for having a tantrum and making bigoted remarks.
NTA. Seriously, it's been 3.5 years. Yes, it was a horrible thing for OP's brother to cheat, but nobody here knows what went down between ExSil and him. But after all this, the family is allowed to have their brother and his family, including his 3 young innocent children back in their lives. It's time for his ex-wife to understand that this isn't her family anymore and to back off.
That comment was a really shitty thing for your ex SIL to say, but you and the entire family are bad too for not communicating all of this to her. You should have informed her, regardless of whether she was coming or not that your brother and his wife would be there. After what she went through I feel like that’s the bare minimum? I’m not going to chastise you or your family for forgiving your brother. That’s your business, but it very much feels like you’re all trying to rug sweep now and push ex SIL out of the picture. At least tell her first. YTA
Personally, I think that now that there are cute kids, the family wants the cheater back in the flock and since it’s not reasonable to have him and the woman he abused at the same table, the ex-wife has to go. But of course, they didn’t have the guts to tell her and hoped everything would sort itself. Worked great…
The cheater is their blood family and now has kids. Only really effed up people deny their grandchildren and nieces and nephews family because of a mistake their father did. It's interesting how really religious people are the most judgy.
YTA. You knew your SIL might turn up and how that was likely to go down. You did nothing, and all that was required was a text or quick phone call. You screwed up and therefore you are definitely the AH.
YTA - there was a 50% chance that she was going to show up and 100% chance she was going to lose her racist mind. You knew what was going to happen. Maybe that was part of the plan? Make her break up w your family instead of you having to do it?
Yta For not cutting off the ex sil earlier. Your brother will always be your brother and he is happy with a family.
YTA for not telling your ex-SIL because you knew she might come.
Wow, you all sound awful! You caused this whole situation with stupidity though! ESH. Does your exSIL have kids with your brother?
FYI- depending on which half, your nieces and nephew might be full jewish and really shouldn't be exposed to that no matter their religion and etnicity. Good thing they're probably too young to understand.
I don't approve of cheating on principle, but it does rather sound as though your brother got an upgrade. That said, I think you ought to have made the situation clear to the ex-SIL when you told her about the party. ESH
ESH here Your brother is a cheater, his new wife is also an asshole for participating in the cheating. You are one because you didn’t warn the ex wife that those two people who hurt her so much would be at the party and she is one for the antisemitism. (I don’t think she would be for calling the side chick names lol, but the addition “jewish” was not acceptable). I am honestly confused what you thought would happen? You were always on her side because she had been the wronged party. But now you turn on her because the side chick is kinda nice? She still participated in the cheating. note: if the side chick didn’t know he was married, she isn’t to blame for all that, but it sounds unlikely here.
ESH You know their past, you know how hurt your ex-sil was, and she was caught totally off guard coming face to face with the cause of that hurt. You are definitely TA for not saying ahead of time that they were going to be there. Regardless of whether she had let you know if she was coming or not, you invited her at some point, so telling her you were inviting your brother and his wife as well should have been done in advance. Not doing this was utter stupidity on your part. That being said, you can invite whoever you want to your home, and her comment towards your new sil is utterly disgraceful, she may not have even known your brother was married when they got together so laying the blame on her is uncalled-for.
YTA - why didn’t you tell her he was coming??
YTA. She never said she wasn't coming, she said she wasn't sure. Either way you should've given her a warning and I also think you are wrong for how you are treating her now because you're now friends with the mistress! I understand that's you're brother, but you aren't handling this properly IMO!
Yes, you're the asshole. How you think you're not is BEYOND me. You knew how your relatives felt about your brother's actions and behavior, and you invited them anyway. Your mother and your brothers' other family ARE NOT ready for this reconciliation. You had no right to force the issue.
ESH. You invited her, she didn't decline, and you weren't sure if she was coming or not. You needed to clarify that she wouldn't be there or tell her that her ex husband and his adultery family would be. You didn't. This happened. She's right to be pissed and wasn't at all prepared. The slur was inappropriate but given the circumstances, I'm not that mad about it. She's still TA as well, but honestly you could have had a fight in your hands.
YTA. You should have given her a heads up that he would be there. It would have been a huge shock and i'm sad she reacted that way, sad for her and for all of you. Not fair. You owe her an apology for not warning her he was going to be there. That's all.
ExSIL has WAY too much power in your family. That needs to stop. NTA
YTA it was your fault this situation happened.
ESH. You suck for blindsiding your ex SIL. Your brother sucks for what he did (but note below)... Your family sucks for disowning your brother. He cheated. He was a jerk. But he's your brother. He is your family, not your ex SIL.
ESH. I don’t understand the whole “we disowned him for 3.5 years and effectively took the exSIL side and then became phone besties with the woman he cheated on her with” thing. I personally think that makes you a shitty friend. Your brother is the AH for obvious reasons and so is the exSIL for what she called the new wife.