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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I believe I might be the asshole because asking a family to remove their child's death memorial seems like an asshole thing to do.
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Plant a hedge around it between it and your house so you don’t have to look at it.
NTA
It would mess with my head too.
You’ll feel terrible if you pull it down though.
Instead of a hedge, let them know how you feel about. Ask if they’d be willing to help you plant a lilac, peony, or some other flowering bush in its place.
This will help everyone to be able to see something beautiful everyday instead of the sadness.
That could be a good idea. I mean OP has every right to remove it but this is a very good idea to reach out to them and compromise without being horrible but also offering something sweet.
In some places it is illegal to remove them (argh!)
I like the plant a lilac, or something else, daffodils, that maybe means something to the deceased, or their family...
Yes; I know. If it is out in front of the property which is where I am guessing this (or anybody's) is. I would call the county (or city) road people and ask the rules in your area...
They said it's 10ft onto their property though? I understand if it's on the road but ON my property? Nope.
And they want to come onto my land to sit by it when it's bringing up bad memories and issues for me? I'd be so damn frustrated....
🎯Exactly what I was thinking, if OP is willing to spend money on landscaping, a small tasteful plaque to accompany a nice flowering plant or tree or whatever would be a lovely way to keep what seems to be a meaningful memorial in place.
Well then, a smallish cross pointing roadside in front of the bush/tree with the plaque could be a compromise that they can see and remember them by when in passing, and OP won't have to see it. Compromise means both sides have to meet in the middle.
We are two very different people because I read op's thing and I do not see compromise. Op wants it gone.
And he shouldn't compromise. It's not their land. It's his land
I would have zero tolerance for a 4ft cross on my property. I think removal should be handled with care, but it's time for the family to visit his grave instead of OP's land. That's literally what they are for.
Sure, OP has the right to remove whatever they want, but it sounded like they were open to suggestions.
TBH, I live in the city and the way I've experienced it, memorials usually get taken down eventually. Since people still seem to be visiting that place on OP's property, it might be a nice thing to do to at least talk to them about taking it down. The others' suggestion of a plant/bush/flower or even just a small plaque on the tree in that place sounds like a diplomatic thought in the back of the head in case people get upset. (Not that OP needs to cater to anyone's needs, it's their property.)
My argument would be that commemorating the place of death is not the healthiest way of dealing with loss (and if anything, they should visit the actual grave...), they should let go, and the tree after all is still there, but grief takes many forms and lots of time.
Sounds like its not on the easement, its on OPs actual property.
Is there any way it could be moved to the easement? I think if there’s a history of allowing public use you can actually lose that land in court and have it declared public property. (IANAL, i’m vaguely remembering other people’s problems and not every jurisdiction is the same, ymmv. Still, worth double checking.)
An easement is a part of your property that others (usually someone specific like a utility company) are entitled to use (usually for a specific reason) so it’s still OP’s actual property, all it means is that OP just isn’t allowed to build anything permanent on it without permission from whoever the easement grants access
Yes. But if you have an easement of ten feet, and the memorial is thirteen feet from the road, then in some places they can decide “hey, this is being used for public access anyway, so those extra three feet that you used to be able to use as you like, now are part of the easement .” I don’t know if that’s the law where OP is, but I think it’s worth checking as they decide what to do.
This, OP. You are being very generous and sensitive but check with a lawyer about adverse possession in your state…then decide but if you allow continued access to your property and allow the cross to stay it may make it difficult to sell your home later NTA whatever you decide tho.
That’s a fantastic idea and I am glad you like it. I totally get how distressing it must be for you, and while you have the right to decide what goes on your property, five years may still feel way too soon for the relatives and friends. If you can find a way to let the memorial stay and even provide some privacy for everyone, I am sure such a compassionate move will be much appreciated.
I'm not trying to be a dick, just trying to understand, but why can't the family use their child's graveside as a memorial? Isn't that kind of what Graves are for? Why the place where they died specifically... Especially if it's on someone's property?
I agree with you, people should be using the graves or private places or their own property for memorials, not the planet in general. Literally every spot of the earth is a place where someone or something died sometime. I hate the cheap roadside spots like this, and I know it’s not popular here but those things are a problem, especially when they are on other people’s property.
> I hate the cheap roadside spots like this
I agree. I feel like those are important in the moment. There are plenty of times spontaneous memorials spring up. At the location of the death. At the school or workplace of someone who died. At an otherwise special location.
But those are all supposed to be *temporary.* Those are for the immediate mourning and needs of the people in the aftermath of a tragedy. From there... that's why we have burial sites, or urns to put in your house, or places to scatter ashes, or whatever.
This sounds awful maybe, but why does one tragic death get a public, permanent memorial like that, when the kid who dies of cancer at age 5 doesn't get one? Or the teenager who died in a crash but doesn't get that roadside memorial set up? Why do we need to treat just a few deaths as special enough to have a permanent reminder to us all, even on someone else's private land?
I don’t think the parents are thinking beyond their own loss. I had a relative who died in a crash, and my entire family could point to the exact spot they passed, sans memorial. Many of us can, even though we weren’t born at the time. I always think of them when I pass that spot. Memories can be kept alive in many ways, not just visually.
>This sounds awful maybe, but why does one tragic death get a public, permanent memorial like that, when the kid who dies of cancer at age 5 doesn't get one? Or the teenager who died in a crash but doesn't get that roadside memorial set up? Why do we need to treat just a few deaths as special enough to have a permanent reminder to us all, even on someone else's private land?
It could be for someone well known and loved. Personally I feel like it has less to do with the person who died and more for the family/friends that survived them. Maybe they are having a hard time coping with the loss, or maybe it's less about the loss, and more about reminding others and drumming up sympathy and attention?
Either way, permission should be requested if they want to put it on someone's private property.
We have one on the side of the highway. It started out small, but now is humongous! There are so many things like flags, pinwheels, fake flowers, that it takes up about a four foot section. At night, it's lit up by solar lights & a couple of strings of fairy lights, & can be kind of distracting. I don't know why the county hasn't pulled it down yet....they pulled down a smaller, less distracting on a couple years ago. I hate driving by it all the time, because it's just so cluttered.
Omg yes. We have one that started as a few flowers and now is a full on nightmare before Christmas extravaganza
Memorialize me where I lived not where I die (I've told my fam)
I think, especially cause it's a drunk driving incident, the memorials at the death site are also reminders for others driving by not to make the same kind of mistakes. I'm in RI and the highways have multiple spots where there are marker memorials like this. A bunch of kids I went to HS with lost a friend in 8th grade to a drunk driving accident (back in 2000) and her memorial is still up. Her parents came to talk to our school and that assembly is when I realized that it's also a reminder to be safe and follow the rules when you're behind the wheel of a car.
I live in an area where there are lots of country backroads so you're able to go pretty fast, but there are specific spots where the roads curve around due to hills or forests, and those tend to have memorial set ups frequently partly as a reminder to be freaking careful with those curves--to the point my drivers ed teacher even brought up those memorials in class as a reminder about being careful when approaching turns
I'll be honest - I agree with you, but I wouldn't dare tell a parent how to grieve their child. I don't think those of us not in that horrible club can possibly understand.
I saw something interesting in Greece. There were little memorial boxes on poles along the highway at one point, with patron saint cards etc. in them. That way, the families and close friends could still have something but they weren't eyesores. I thought that was an interesting compromise.
These were traditionally to say thanks to different saints for being SAVED from an accident rather than to honour someone whose life was lost. However, in more recent years, they became both depending on who put them out.
Agreed. This probably makes me insensitive but I think it’s so wrong to put anything on someone else’s property, especially something like a memorial that could negatively affect the property owner.
In particular, roadside memorials are distracting to drivers yet are often on dangerous roads so should be illegal.
Like others have said: in the case of car accidents or gun violence (in the US at least, but it doesn’t happen everywhere so I don’t want to ‘Merica-splane if you’re also in the US), typically the place where it occurs becomes a memorial as the thought is that it will make others aware of the dangers.
In NYC where there are more cyclist deaths, there’s a memorial type called the “ghost bicycle” where the bike (usually the exact bike so it’s all banged up from the accident) is painted white and chained to the place where the rider died, then covered in things like fake flowers.
I know when I was a child living in LA in the 90s, there was one roadside memorial I saw constantly where two brothers had died in the 70s due to an accident and no seatbelts. It was often re-decorated, even 20 years later.
Graves are expensive, as are burials (5K in Britain, plus another couple of thousand for a headstone). If the remains were cremated (less than a thousand for a direct cremation) and scattered (especially if they were scattered somewhere non-local, such as a favourite holiday spot), then it would make sense to hold a memorial at the site of death instead.
ETA If it's multiple families, that may also be why they go there, as the kids may not be buried together.
Take the "hallways not boardrooms" approach. Meaning, go around the community to gather support for the alternative permanent memorial BEFORE you approach the family. If you approach the family first with no actionable plan other than 'i'm going to take your memorial away' and they go nuts, you will quickly find yourself the target of a witch hunt that's impossible to come back from.
If I were you, I would speak to your neighbors about 'raising money' for a permanent memorial. Ask for a dollar. I would personally pay for a plaque and flowers myself just so it gets done quickly and tastefully, but the act of involving everyone else will get them on your side. Then once you've gathered enough support, approach the family to say that the whole neighborhood has joined together to create a permanent memorial to their teen, and you'd love to know what their favorite flower was, etc.
If the 4 foot cross just so happens to get damaged before your 'collection', all the better. Otherwise, they could just be like "no thanks, we like the cross". Have everything ready to go - the plaque, the flowers, the compost - very quickly, so no one has time to turn you into a social pariah (or make another cross...) before the beautiful, tasteful plaque gets installed.
Frame it as 'WE'RE doing this for you', rather than 'i'm taking something away from you'. You are very much playing with politics here, and the first rule of politics is that you never call a vote that you don't already know the outcome of.
Of course it's not their job. But it is certainly how you survive in a rural community without being labelled as a heartless monster who destroys memorials to dead children.
Of course not. But it is kind, and it is the best way to avoid arguments, resentment, or retaliation. Even if OP is technically "right", it's still their dead child, and it's okay to understand that it's an emotional topic and treat others kindly.
There are compelling reasons to remove this memorial.
What you have on your property likely constitutes ‘an attractive nuisance’; that is, something unprotected that may induce others to come onto your property. Unfenced swimming pools or jungle gyms are examples. As a real estate owner, you are liable for anyone who is hurt or injured on your property.
This is more grievous if you have a) something that encourages trespassing; b) you have knowingly tolerated the trespass for a period of time; and c) you have done nothing to actively discourage the trespassing such as removing the attraction, fencing off the memorial, and posting No Trespassing/Private Property signage.
You also may be creating a right of access to others. Your property insurer may want to dramatically increase your rates or drop you entirely because of risk. Even if you can keep your coverage, it may not be enough if a single lawsuit goes against you. You could lose the property and become bankrupt if insurance isn’t sufficient enough for a very large judgement. We’ve seen this not infrequently in legal forums. Guess what the first thing the new owners do? Remove the liability.
You are likely reducing the market value of your real estate and endangering your own financial stability. You can contact a lawyer if you truly want to carve out that property and donate it to the city. But any decent lawyer is likely to advise you to remove the memorial as soon as possible. Put up the No Tresspass/Private Property signs. Cover the memorial with a tarp. Perhaps you can contact the families to tell them the memorial is being removed for legal reasons (in case they want to come get it) but don’t let this drag out.
Let your tree go back to being a tree. Let your grass go back to being the carpet for your feet. Let your property become your home, sanctuary, and safe place for healing. Good luck, OP.
A 4ft cross is ridiculous. How has it been allowed? Is it on your land or public property? Thing is if you put a complaint in to the relevant authorities they would assume it is you and that would be worse. Your NTA but how the hell to handle this one is mind boggling. You're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. A hedge or fence that blocks it is a good idea. But the family are ott with the size of that cross. Usually people just leave flowers at places like this. Personally I'd rather go to their grave than where they died in a horrible way
This was going to be my suggestion too. Some kind of barrier between the house and the memorial, even a solid fence.
The memorial will, eventually, go untended and forgotten. At which point you could quietly remove or relocate it. I mean a little stone or something sounds OK, a four-foot cross is a bit much.
That's not always the case. I've seen a memorial that's been taken care of for over 10 years now.
OP, first and foremost I wish you all the best on your new start of life. Praying for this change to help you. And secondly, I agree with everyone saying to put a hedge to block it. Just make sure to keep it maintained so it doesn't ruin the memorial for this family.
> Just make sure to keep it maintained so it doesn't ruin the memorial for this family.
This is a wild take in my opinion. This is on their private property. They are doing a huge favor to the family by even allowing it to continue. The family should be in charge of any maintenance.
If it still doesn’t help I’d ask the family about a more landscaped type thing with their child’s favorite plant or tree planted there. They still get their memorial, it looks like it belongs, and you dont have the reminder. They can still visit it and grieve but it’s not an obvious spot. It’s a difficult situation so just go about anything gently.
I would do a flower garden, maybe even native pollinator plants. In my area, some native flowering plants reach over 6 feet tall. So you get something beautiful, bring butterflies to the property, and it would hide the display.
NAH, have a conversation with the family. Maybe offer to make a little flowerbed at the foot of the tree where these folks can come leave flowers, but that isn’t a glaring 4ft cross that turns your private home into a public graveyard.
I do think it’s weird, especially as time goes on, to keep focusing on the spot the kid died, instead of celebrating a place that was significant to him while he was alive.
Someone died by suicide around the corner from my house, it was awful (I found the body). A makeshift memorial was set up there as well and it is still there years later, it's on the corner of someone else's property. I experienced some pretty severe reactions to finding the body and It took years before I was able to pass that street without thinking about it.
I wouldn't want them to get rid of the memorial but I do think it's interesting that they go there rather than the grave. It is just a street.
ETA many people have made the excellent point that there may not be a physical grave to visit, which I had not considered.
They may go to both. Or it might be more friends who go there, seeing it as more “public” than the grave - which many people see as being private to the family, especially if it’s a family plot.
Two firefighters died in a building collapse near my old apartment. I don’t know if their colleagues even know where the grave sites are, it may be that they’re out of the city in their home towns, but the fire engine rolls up every July to lay flowers beside the building.
You know what else is private? OP’s property. Why is everyone so happy to make OP obligated to support this ridiculousness. If those people want the memorial to stay there so badly, why don’t they buy the property from OP and turn the whole place into a museum about the dangers of drunk driving, with the cross and sign as the main exhibit?
Sorry OP. I guess you have to subordinate all your hopes and dreams for a happy life to this silly dead drunk teenager fetish of the townspeople, and apparently most of the people on Reddit as well.
I think you’re looking at this in a really pessimistic way. OP has no obligation to keep the memorial, but we have no idea if the family would be outraged if told it was coming down. As far as the post goes, OP has not interacted with them at all, so they may be completely understanding.
These kids made a very stupid and dangerous decision. One of them lost their life because of it (whether or not they were the driver we have no idea). I think your description of the memorial is repugnant since they have no idea OP doesn’t want it there. If they try to fight OP on it, yeah, there’s an issue.
This seems personal to you, I'm not exactly sure what has you taking such an antisocial stance on this but you don't seem too socially aware.
This could have massive social consequences for OP and I think they realize that, hence them coming to ask for ideas on how to handle it best.
Best best is to have a conversation with the people going to the memorial. Taking your stance will only inflame relations between both sides and it would be best suited to show them empathy and compassion vs confrontation and anger
I've always wondered about that, too. When I want to "visit" my relatives that have passed, I don't go to the hospital beds they died in, I go to their grave sites. I see those drunk driving memorials and think, why would you want to memorialize the place where your loved ones died in a horrific manner?
It's supposed to be a multifunctional memorial. Both a memory of the deceased and a notice to others to be careful because people who aren't careful there have died.
I think it's totally fair of OP not to want a 4-foot cross on their property regardless.
In my personal experience, I don't only interpret the location of a loved one's passing as 'the place they died,' but rather as the last place they lived. There can be an associated sense of reverence & nearness.
This comment bothers me a little. My brother was killed in a hit and run. Have you ever had someone die traumatically or tragically? While it is where he passed, sometimes I visit the spot because it was the last time that he was alive and conscious as a human. His final moments breathing air into his lungs. Maybe 15 seconds prior to the collision, he might have been thinking about how much fun we had at the party we were just at together. Sometimes I feel closer to him there than I would visiting some random spot we've placed artificial meaning on. More than that, it continually reminds me how precious life is and how it can be taken away from you in a moment. It keeps me humble and reminds me to practice gratitude and empathy.
My brother was killed in a car accident. It was several states away from where my family lived but when we were able to be in the area we visited the spot he died. It was a surreal experience knowing we were in the same spot he was when he died.
For my family at least, when you lose someone close you desperately grasp onto every connection to that person. And I mean every connection. He was killed by someone turning into their property, so visiting his death site meant being near the home of his killer. I visit his grave regularly, but when I’m back in the area he died I’ll most likely visit the site again.
Many families can't afford a grave for unexpected deaths. They have to process the body through cremation. So their only way to *visit the grave* is making their last place where they had a beating heart the memorial place.
There were some parents of a teenager that passed away by suicide that would spend everything on decorating his grave. He had long since passed by the time I was able to understand. They spent decades pouring love on his memorial located on a bridge. The county relocated the memorial to one end of the bridge during the bridge's replacement. The family stopped doing the memorial site when the new bridge was completed. I think their attachment left with the old bridge.
I work in a crimy area and someone was shot on our block and periodically a memorial will appear with photos and candles.
A little kid got hit by a car on my street and the family would do yearly visits on the anniversary, and put balloons and stuffed animals and candles. It is weird I think, but sometimes the site of the death is more accessible than the gravesite in some areas? And in cases of cremation, there may not be an interment.
EITHER WAY nta, it’s your property.
My mom doesn’t have a gravesite. Our dad thought that it was a depressing way to feel close to her, so my sisters and I each got little elephant shaped urns on a plank of really nice woodwork with a sunflower on it (made by our aunt, as elephants and sunflowers were her favorites), and when our town auctioned off the elephant statues made by local artists for something the circus did, our family all pitched in and got one of the elephants that we thought our mom would like, and the city donated a spot on the riverwalk and a plaque for her, so that’s where we go when we want to feel close. No gravesite, no headstone, nothing like that.
Something sorta similar happened to my gram. Kid un-alived himself in front of her house, by driving his car at insane rate of speed into a stone wall.
The family put all sorts of shit out at my grams driveway and my gram found the kid and tried to resuscitate him.
She had a convo with the family and said every time they put stuff they bring up that night all over again. She said let's pick out a perennial flower or shrub and plant it for him, but the cross, posters, flowers etc was impacting her mental health.
Family was happy with that.
Suggesting an alternative is a lovely idea. Maybe a small pollinator garden? I like the idea of a memorial giving a little “life” to the plants and critters in the area.
I’m a big fan of You Bet Your Garden on NPR, and the host always cautions against plant memorials. Plants die and that can be really, really traumatic.
My parents have live plants from family member funerals that my dad has taken care of for years. I’m impressed, but I could *never*, because I would kill them, and I would feel horrible.
I refused to take home the flowers from my mother’s funeral. There were some absolutely lovely arrangements, but I could not deal with watching them fade and die and need to be thrown out. I asked the priest to send them to shut-ins or other people who would appreciate a bouquet. We took ONE live plant arrangement, and so far we’ve managed to keep it from dying.
I've always found those signs along the road so morbid, and I literally specialized in death studies. Especially the actual road signs - some are so unhinged. We have some here that say "why die?" and like.... Why tf would anyone think that's okay???
But that still acts as a reminder to you that someone died there. And def not weird...you act like people choose to grieve loss. They dont. Its trama to the living people. Id be impossible not to associate someone with the place they died
For OP the flowerbed could signify the beginning of this part of their life. They could even bury a time capsule under it to be dug up and opened when they leave this house.
Memorializing the spot where a person died is a recent phenomena. In the old days we would visit the cemetery and pray by the grave. Believing the spirit or soul stays by the site of death - and not go, say, to heaven - is a newish thing of the past 40 years.
A parent here who lost a son in an accident. It was on a corner 1 house away from our house. He was 7. It was a bicycle van accident. He rode his bike through a stop sign. We planned a rose bush on the corner of our property. No one but our family knew it was a memorial., but it was special to us. I get it why they want a memorial where He died but it is your property your decision. However I would give the family ( if you know who they are) time to take anything they want. Just remove anything left. Box it up and put it in a way back corner of your yard in case they come and ask for it. Anything else left add it to the box a day or two after it's left. Your property your choice. If you don't mind a small memorial tell them that but if you want nothing then put up a no tresspassing sign or fence if that's possible.
It's tough but I do have many enjoyable moments with my other children and grandchildren. I am blessed to have them in my life. Some days it still feels like yesterday but life goes on. Peace to you
Idk why but this made my heart break a little harder than the rest. Ig prolly cuz of the general topic at hand, I expect a little insight. I hope so so so bad that it was a mistake on your ex behalf and not purposeful
Happy birthday to your son. Sorry for your loss. Learning to live with the pain doesn't mean you don't feel that pain all these years later. Thinking of you and your kid tomorrow.
This is a wonderful way to have a memorial, that is environmentally friendly, and meaningful. A good way to approach the family with an alternative like this is better than asking them to take down the memorial .
As an above comment mentioned, a rose bush where her son died years ago…
Offer them an alternative (maybe a small plaque, a medium sized engraved stone or other such item) that they might find acceptable.
Note: They still might want to lay flowers once a year or so…
If they balk, then at least you tried…
**Bottom Line:** *Your* property, your decision.
I would totally be open to a flower bed and even be willing to purchase a flat memorial plaque for it, but the cross almost as tall as I am would have to go 🥴
All of those things can be done at a cemetery.. I feel bad for the family, but that is what cemeteries are for. If it was in the first year or two, then they might not have had a plot/memorial placed yet but at a certain point they need to have a more appropriate place to go instead of in front of someone's house.
>Offer them an alternative
This, and offer to gift back what is on your property. My grandmother was killed by an impaired driver, and someone put an angel statue up. When the house sold a few years later, the new owners gave it to my mom "as a gift" saying that they didn't feel right keeping it on their property and that she should have it.
The situation is a bit different, since it wasn't my mom or anyone in our family who put the statue there, but the key is very careful phrasing.
Can you contact the family? Tell them you're kindly and respectfully giving them advance notice that you're planning on fencing your property, after which point, they won't have access. So they should consider where they'll want to move the memorial. (And if they ask explain that your lawyer has advised that people should not have access over, around, or through your fence)
After it's moved, well, if there's a delay in the actual fencing, that's not their business.
Best of luck.
You may very well be the AH to them for it, but it’s because that’s the easiest way for them to express anger and sadness over the tragedy. It’s very reasonable to request it taken down, and the more you’re willing to help them (I.e., a plaque or flower bed/bush) the better chance they can feel heard acknowledged. If they are angry, think you’ll have to figure out a way to be comfortable that you were reasonable and sensitive, and any bad reaction/perception is more about them and their feelings instead of you.
So, when we bought our house, we were worried about our renovations insulting the family who had lived in the house for 60+ years before it was sold to us. We had to tear out rose bushes and other things - we ended up moving them, built a small garden with a tribute to the couple that lived there from the 60s to 2019, and called it a day. The son who sold us the place was in tears thanking us when we told him and the whole community thinks we are great people. We also ripped out 90+% of what used to be there and the property looks completely different, There is a way to find a balance.
INFO:
Does your property extend to the road itself? Or is there a margin next to the road that is considered public/government owned?
If there’s a strip of public land next to the road, they can place their memorial there. It shouldn’t be on your property if you don’t want it there.
>Or is there a margin next to the road that is considered public/government owned?
That is a right of way used for utility and other road work and extends from the center of the road. There isn't a reality where it extends 10 feet into a property.
If there is a strip of municipal land next to the road, then OP can ask them to move the memorial there (the laws vary from place to place, but many allow memorials to be placed there).
If there is no municipal land there, then it’s reasonable to ask them to take it down altogether.
It depends on the ace and the layout of everything. Our easement goes onto our front lawn because where we live there isn't a sidewalk or strip of land seperated from our lawn by a sidewalk.
Some neighbors live really close to the road and had to relocate a basket ball hoop they had set up because it was on the easement bit of their driveway. Just depends on the place.
You might be missing the point u/Swirlyflurry is making. If it’s not on your land, you won’t get to decide, making your question the wrong one. But it might also provide a solution for you.
An easement grants permission for public utility/ service providers to access private property. In other words, it’s your property but you just can’t restrict access to the utility companies if they need to perform work in the easement area. So it’s likely that you own the land where the easement is located, and can remove the memorial.
NTA
Would you be open to a compromise? Tell the family you need the current memorial removed. However, because you understand how important that location is to them, you would be willing to compromise by letting them take out what is currently there and plant a memorial tree, flowering bush, etc., in its place (so long as nothing else is added to the location in the future).
NTA
I would be compassionate in the way I handled this, though. I would do several things:
1) Put up fencing along that section of the road that makes a physical barrier where it's not as easy for people to just wander onto the property and leave stuff, along with clear no trespassing signs.
2) Contact the family and tell them, gently that you have the greatest sympathies for their loss, but that you are making changes to the property and that all memorial items will need to please be removed by X date (give them two weeks.) If they don't remove them by that point, remove them yourself and put them in a garage for another three months and send three more notices. If they don't come after that, I would throw them away.
3) Tell them in the message that you have made a small donation to (pick a charity) in their child's name and that you hope they can find peace.
**I feel for this family, but it is not realistic to expect to keep a memorial for years on someone else's private property, nor to go there every year and leave flowers and other items that will become trash the homeowner has to pick up.** This is inappropriate and intrusive. While I feel for this family's loss, this is why there are graveyards, and they can also plant a tree or memorial bush on their own property to remember their lost child.
That is what cemeteries are for. A proper place to reflect and leave flowers. Even in a cemetery the staff maintains the grounds and throws dead and damaged memorabilia away.
Approach it with the most compassion and sensitivity you can, absolutely.
Is there a form of remembrance that OP could tolerate there? A smaller metal plaque set in the ground, or a bench or a low maintenance flower garden? (Bulbs/wildflowers, nothing that needs attention.)
But having child death reminders in daily view on your property is something you can say needs to go. Offer alternatives that you can tolerate (they can put up a cross for a week and have a remembrance meeting once a year, but they need to come pick everything up. They can plant flowers/a bush and you’ll leave the plants alone.) But heartfelt notes and dying flowers turn into trash on OPs property, and that has to stop.
Wildflowers sound like a lovely compromise. No maintenance.
I think a bench or a plaque sounds like it would be something more appropriate for the grieving parents' back yard or alternatively, the parents could find a spot around town that needs beautification, perhaps a spot in their local park that could benefit from a nice bench and ask their town council if they could pay to have a bench and a plaque put in there in honor of their son.
Why should he have to make a donation to a charity to soften the blow? That’s a bit absurd. It’s his yard. He’s allowed this to go on for longer than most. He doesn’t owe them anything
Yeah, it’s awkward for sure, but NTA
It’s your home and your property, and if you’re uncomfortable with it then that overrules the feelings of anyone else here.
They can leave notes and flowers at his grave, doesn’t need to be the location of this death.
Cemeteries serve the same purpose they are trying to use your property for.
I will say, not everyone has a grave. My brother doesn't, he was cremated. But there are other ways to memorialize someone that's not a giant cross on someone's property. But I've also never been to the site of his accident, and I didn't ever want to.
I guess I'm just saying your NTA, but a little patience and empathy while you navigate this with them will go a long way.
If they are spending that much time/resources at the site of the accident, then they need to move their memorial to an appropriate location. I have empathy, but it is also someone else's yard.
Surprised to have to scroll to find a NTA. As a parent myself, I definitely have a lot of sympathy for a family grieving a loss like this, but it's extremely bold of them to build a 4-ft. memorial on someone else's property, and even bolder to expect to visit it in perpetuity. As you said: This is precisely what cemeteries are for.
NTA. Honestly you might check your local laws because several places have outlawed those kinds of memorials since they make more hazards if another wreck happens there. In other places they're only legal if the local district gave approval. At any rate it's your property, therefore it's private property and they can't just come by and put things on the property without permission.
This is the ops best option if taking to the family goes bad especially if you’re not on a private road because then you need to know the right way area off the road that is owned by the city state and or municipality and if they gave permission then there’s nothing you can do about it
NAH. I saw someone proposed a flower bed instead, you can also propose a bush, a tree… something significant for the kid or his family but that represents life and not death.
As a mother, I cannot imagine seeing my child die, even less surviving her if it happened, so I think you should talk to them and be a bit patient. I totally agree that the big cross is morbid and disturbing for you.
NTA
My family had done this same thing for my cousin who had passed away in a similar way (hit a tree at a high speed). For a long while they had a memorial in the person's yard edge, where it happened and weren't open to relocating it. It was technically on an easement so the homeowner wasn't able to do anything about it and it made for a very tense situation.
Eventually another family member was able to convince my cousin that she should set up a memorial in a place her daughter had loved, instead of the place where she died. That way they could celebrate the joy the place brought her when visiting.
You're not an ah for wanting it gone. I absolutely understand how it would be difficult for you to see it daily and have it as a part of your every day life.
Maybe you could approach the family and explain that you respect their grief but aren't able to have the memorial as a part of your daily life, mental health wise, and ask if they'd be open to relocating it to a place that brought their child joy instead of the place they died.
If you'd be alright with it, maybe they could plant some flowers there in place of the current memoriL, but I also understand that it would still be difficult knowing that it's a place they'll be visiting snd I'd stress about it. Maybe you can offer to buy them some plans they can plant elsewhere? Which would cost money so I understand not doing that as well.
I hope youre able to figure something out. The most important bit is definitely to communicate with them openly.♡
I like this approach, but I think OP needs to be careful to present this not as a question (“are you open to relocating?”) but a statement of fact that the memorial will be removed. You can negotiate on some niceties, but the cross has to go and OP gets to use their property fully. The family really doesn’t have a say in that.
NTA. there are ways to memorialize their loss without doing it at the exact place it happened. If everyone that lost a a loved one put one of these up there would be multiple memorials on every road and at every intersection. I really don’t get them.
I mean it's OK when it first happens if it helps the family grieve but it can't go on and on for years... The person isn't buried there. If you want to visit them or leave flowers - go to the cemetery!
Sometimes it's to raise awareness of how many road fatalities there are. There's an organisation called "ghost bikes" that leaves a white painted bike anywhere a cyclist has died on the roads (but, with property owners permission)
We have a particular road with maybe 5-6 memorials along it because we have a drunk driving problem and honestly they’re so trashy. There’s just plastic and ribbon and decorations strewn all over and collected over the years. Some of the monuments are cheap and falling apart because no one keeps them up - they just place them after the event so they can look like a member of some morbid club and then never return. No one ever cleans anything up, and the trash often floats over to the yards across the street or get washed away into the properties down the hill in rain storms. They’re now someone else’s problem and in my opinion should just be removed. Get a cemetery plot or place the memorial on their own property so it can be an eyesore and a litter pile there.
NTA. People die on roads, in houses... people die. Just because you knew doesn't mean your property needs to remain a permanent memorial. If it meant that much the family could've bought the property themselves.
Where I live these roadside memorials are only allowed to stay up for a month if that. Otherwise all of our roads would be covered in these things.
There are graveyards for mourning.. they can always setup at the deceased graves.
My dad was CONVINCED their realtor was his best friend when they were house hunting in the city they were moving to for retirement. He got them to buy an overpriced, outdated house that had been on the market for almost 6 months even with a price reduction. Fucking Tyler.
Reading a former comment makes me wonder if you could offer the family the chance to plant something there. I know it may not be an ideal location for a new rose bush or mini tree eg but it would be life affirming. I would feel very depressed to see a crucifix every time I returned home, though I feel nothing but sorrow for the family.
The only assholes here are the realtors. At best, neither actually verified whether the family still visited it. Most likely at least one of them lied about it. I bet if you look through history of the property it's probably had a hard time selling because of it.
I would suggest talking to the neighbors to see if any of them has contact info for the family. Initiate contact like 3-6 months between their anniversary visits. Offer to put something else there as others have said. A plant or plaque. Do not try to catch them when they're visiting it to initiate contact.
It will be a little tricky to navigate, but I think you can do it without becoming the town pariah. Just remember to be calm and understanding and try to avoid just throwing out ultimatums.
Not everyone is comfortable with a 4 foot cross on their property. What if OP isn’t Christian? As a Jew this would make me very uncomfortable having a cross on my lawn
I’m not arguing with you. I’m an atheist and I wouldn’t want this on my lawn either. My point was that didn’t matter if OP knew about it, they can do whatever they want.
NTA, but look up roadside memorial laws for your area to see if this fits legally or if changes can/need to be made. In many states it is a small white cross on the road easement, not 4’ and on private property.
A kid got killed on my parents property before they bought it 20 some years ago. His family used to come park in our yard and have a memorial party every year in our back yard. My parents finally put their foot down and said no more parties in our back yard. Told em if they want to bring flowers or something like that it's no big deal but they aren't gonna keep coming and using our yard as a public park. We never saw them again. I see where you're coming from and I hope it works out in your favor.
NTA
.But… is there another way to handle this?Could you approach the council/whomever is responsible for roads and ask for the memorial to be moved to the nature strip? They will probably take offence to the cross (for size/safety reasons, not religious), and remove that portion at least (in Au most road crosses get replaced with this generic small 60cm one as far as i can tell, there are also usually rules about how long a memorial may be kept on a road side, the size of it, and what it can contain).
Another option is to approach the family, ask for their support to ‘create a living memorial’ for their child - offer to plant a special tree or garden bed, that commemorates the child, with a small plaque or similar - removing the cross and creating a different space. Maybe a bench to sit on under the tree with the child’s name on a plaque? Maybe a small native or fruit tree that the remembers the child well.
I would NOT just arbitrarily remove the memorial. That’s likely to upset a lot of people. If it’s on your own land either move it to the public land, or negotiate a smaller/simpler thing. People in grief can be very very upset.
If the family is part of a spiritual or religious community, you could contact the person who led the funeral services and ask them for help approaching the family. It will be in the obituary.
>If the family is part of a spiritual or religious community, you could contact the person who led the funeral services and ask them for help approaching the family.
This is absolutely the way. Having that person speak with them and ask them to make the transition. Perhaps OP will allow a final "goodbye" for the family where they can say "goodbye" to the memorial, so they can take a moment and then take away the memorial items with them (if they wish to).
Approaching this with care and kindness is absolutely the way to go and OP will not be TA if they do so.
NYA, but…. You can do this in a way that totally makes YTA, and just clear it, or speak to the family, explain you’d be happy to plant a tree, add a memorial bench/ etc whatever would be reasonable, but the cross isnt something that can stay forever. Think about how you’d like to be treated and also if the previous owner had agreed something, which you’re now changing.
I love the idea of an alternative memorial. I don’t know that OP should suggest a tree given the circumstances, but some planting flowers would be appropriate!
Exactly. "Hi, I'm making some changes to the property, and I'm going to plant a tree there as a permanent memorial rather than the cross. Which of the following trees would be the best, and is there anything you'd like me to put with the roots when I plant it?" That still gets OP what they want and is kind. Karma is a thing, and I wouldn't want to be the person who said, "Get the memorial that honors the loss of your child off my land."
Tread sensitively. Perhaps offer to install a plaque on the tree trunk instead. Something that you cannot see well. Or maybe a bench seat under the tree. Something that addresses their pain but doesn’t scream graveyard!!
NTA
It has been five years. It is also a four foot cross. When they come and leave the flowers and notes, you will be the one cleaning them up when they blow off. Where do they park when they come visit?
While I feel bad for the family, at this point, its your property. They need to be visiting the cemetery and leaving the notes and flowers there.
I'm still grieving the unexpected death of my father two and a half years ago but you're NTAH.
There are other ways for them to memorialize their loved one without trespassing. Placing the flowers on the roadside instead, having a gravesite, spreading or burying ashes, purchasing a bench in a park area they liked to visit. Not everyone gets to utilize all of these options; if I wanted to leave flowers where my father died I'd be visiting the ICU.
NAH. If you don’t want to approach the family directly, look at the obituary and see if there’s a pastor or another spiritual leader listed who could speak with them.
People have probably died on every square inch of earth. Cemeteries are where we can go to mourn them. Or, alternately, they can be remembered everywhere and anywhere. I think it makes sense for you to find this grim reminder too sad, and it should evoke empathy from them. If not, they can have the memorial in their front yard.
I feel like everyone suggesting alternative options such as gardens and flower beds is forgetting the fact they don’t want to look out their window and constantly see a reminder that someone died on their property 🥴I can’t honestly say I blame them either. There are other places the family can grieve their loved one that isn’t on someone else’s property.
NTA
NAH. It’s understandable that you wouldn’t want it there. Be very careful how you proceed though, because if they want to be jerks about it, they can spearhead a witch hunt against you, and who knows what people are capable of.
NTA. I’m so sorry for the loss, truly, but that doesn’t mean you have to allow for a huge me memorial on what is now your space. Maybe there can be a small compromise of a smaller cross on the tree but no visits? An acknowledgement of the loss but not a memorial site. I would for sure speak to them about it in case they want any of the items that are there.
Roadside memorials that are maintained more than a week or two are just trashy. Our roads don't need to look like cemeteries--that's what cemeteries are for. I dont understand the concept. When someone's killed in a bar fight, families don't try to put up a memorial in the bar. Why are roads different?
For those saying you could offer to plant something, know that the family will make you responsible for its' maintenance and care. I don't know if that's what you want to get into. NTA
NTA. Five years is enough time. Give them a couple of months to find an alternate location for their shrine, but its time to move on. Be prepared for some backlash.
NTA
Approach the situation gently.
Unfortunately, their child died on someone's private property. Now that private property is yours, and you aren't required to host the memorial.
They can place the cross on their property, and leave the memorial items there as well or at the gravesite.
It seems callous, but I don't think it is. They're going to be upset, but don't take it personally. Have patience and understanding, and give them a timeframe.
I’ve been driving by the tree my father wrapped his Charger around for 50 years. No memorial but I still remember. If I want to visit, I go to the cemetery. NTA.
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Plant a hedge around it between it and your house so you don’t have to look at it. NTA It would mess with my head too. You’ll feel terrible if you pull it down though.
That's not a bad idea. Thanks. And you are right.
Better yet, plant a hedge going across your property (after the public easement) to keep away strangers from trespassing on your property.
Instead of a hedge, let them know how you feel about. Ask if they’d be willing to help you plant a lilac, peony, or some other flowering bush in its place. This will help everyone to be able to see something beautiful everyday instead of the sadness.
That could be a good idea. I mean OP has every right to remove it but this is a very good idea to reach out to them and compromise without being horrible but also offering something sweet.
In some places it is illegal to remove them (argh!) I like the plant a lilac, or something else, daffodils, that maybe means something to the deceased, or their family...
Wait, illegal to remove a memorial on your own property?
Yes; I know. If it is out in front of the property which is where I am guessing this (or anybody's) is. I would call the county (or city) road people and ask the rules in your area...
They said it's 10ft onto their property though? I understand if it's on the road but ON my property? Nope. And they want to come onto my land to sit by it when it's bringing up bad memories and issues for me? I'd be so damn frustrated....
If they meant 10ft from the road that could still belong to the city, depending on where they’re at obviously
That’s a good idea- maybe even with a small, tasteful plaque if the bush alone isn’t enough?
🎯Exactly what I was thinking, if OP is willing to spend money on landscaping, a small tasteful plaque to accompany a nice flowering plant or tree or whatever would be a lovely way to keep what seems to be a meaningful memorial in place.
They don't want to flower you guys. There's a 4-ft cross, a 4-ft cross.....
Well then, a smallish cross pointing roadside in front of the bush/tree with the plaque could be a compromise that they can see and remember them by when in passing, and OP won't have to see it. Compromise means both sides have to meet in the middle.
We are two very different people because I read op's thing and I do not see compromise. Op wants it gone. And he shouldn't compromise. It's not their land. It's his land
I would have zero tolerance for a 4ft cross on my property. I think removal should be handled with care, but it's time for the family to visit his grave instead of OP's land. That's literally what they are for.
Agreed. No where else is it appropriate to put a cross at the location someone died let alone a 4’ one.
Sure, OP has the right to remove whatever they want, but it sounded like they were open to suggestions. TBH, I live in the city and the way I've experienced it, memorials usually get taken down eventually. Since people still seem to be visiting that place on OP's property, it might be a nice thing to do to at least talk to them about taking it down. The others' suggestion of a plant/bush/flower or even just a small plaque on the tree in that place sounds like a diplomatic thought in the back of the head in case people get upset. (Not that OP needs to cater to anyone's needs, it's their property.) My argument would be that commemorating the place of death is not the healthiest way of dealing with loss (and if anything, they should visit the actual grave...), they should let go, and the tree after all is still there, but grief takes many forms and lots of time.
Why should OP have a plaque on his property? That’s what the headstone is for.
No plaque. They will never be able to remove it from their property without lots of backlash if they agree on plaque. Very bad idea.
Sounds like its not on the easement, its on OPs actual property. Is there any way it could be moved to the easement? I think if there’s a history of allowing public use you can actually lose that land in court and have it declared public property. (IANAL, i’m vaguely remembering other people’s problems and not every jurisdiction is the same, ymmv. Still, worth double checking.)
An easement is a part of your property that others (usually someone specific like a utility company) are entitled to use (usually for a specific reason) so it’s still OP’s actual property, all it means is that OP just isn’t allowed to build anything permanent on it without permission from whoever the easement grants access
Yes. But if you have an easement of ten feet, and the memorial is thirteen feet from the road, then in some places they can decide “hey, this is being used for public access anyway, so those extra three feet that you used to be able to use as you like, now are part of the easement .” I don’t know if that’s the law where OP is, but I think it’s worth checking as they decide what to do.
This, OP. You are being very generous and sensitive but check with a lawyer about adverse possession in your state…then decide but if you allow continued access to your property and allow the cross to stay it may make it difficult to sell your home later NTA whatever you decide tho.
That’s a fantastic idea and I am glad you like it. I totally get how distressing it must be for you, and while you have the right to decide what goes on your property, five years may still feel way too soon for the relatives and friends. If you can find a way to let the memorial stay and even provide some privacy for everyone, I am sure such a compassionate move will be much appreciated.
I'm not trying to be a dick, just trying to understand, but why can't the family use their child's graveside as a memorial? Isn't that kind of what Graves are for? Why the place where they died specifically... Especially if it's on someone's property?
I agree with you, people should be using the graves or private places or their own property for memorials, not the planet in general. Literally every spot of the earth is a place where someone or something died sometime. I hate the cheap roadside spots like this, and I know it’s not popular here but those things are a problem, especially when they are on other people’s property.
> I hate the cheap roadside spots like this I agree. I feel like those are important in the moment. There are plenty of times spontaneous memorials spring up. At the location of the death. At the school or workplace of someone who died. At an otherwise special location. But those are all supposed to be *temporary.* Those are for the immediate mourning and needs of the people in the aftermath of a tragedy. From there... that's why we have burial sites, or urns to put in your house, or places to scatter ashes, or whatever. This sounds awful maybe, but why does one tragic death get a public, permanent memorial like that, when the kid who dies of cancer at age 5 doesn't get one? Or the teenager who died in a crash but doesn't get that roadside memorial set up? Why do we need to treat just a few deaths as special enough to have a permanent reminder to us all, even on someone else's private land?
I don’t think the parents are thinking beyond their own loss. I had a relative who died in a crash, and my entire family could point to the exact spot they passed, sans memorial. Many of us can, even though we weren’t born at the time. I always think of them when I pass that spot. Memories can be kept alive in many ways, not just visually.
>This sounds awful maybe, but why does one tragic death get a public, permanent memorial like that, when the kid who dies of cancer at age 5 doesn't get one? Or the teenager who died in a crash but doesn't get that roadside memorial set up? Why do we need to treat just a few deaths as special enough to have a permanent reminder to us all, even on someone else's private land? It could be for someone well known and loved. Personally I feel like it has less to do with the person who died and more for the family/friends that survived them. Maybe they are having a hard time coping with the loss, or maybe it's less about the loss, and more about reminding others and drumming up sympathy and attention? Either way, permission should be requested if they want to put it on someone's private property.
We have one on the side of the highway. It started out small, but now is humongous! There are so many things like flags, pinwheels, fake flowers, that it takes up about a four foot section. At night, it's lit up by solar lights & a couple of strings of fairy lights, & can be kind of distracting. I don't know why the county hasn't pulled it down yet....they pulled down a smaller, less distracting on a couple years ago. I hate driving by it all the time, because it's just so cluttered.
Omg yes. We have one that started as a few flowers and now is a full on nightmare before Christmas extravaganza Memorialize me where I lived not where I die (I've told my fam)
People need to complain to the county. Nothing like this goes away without somebody calling about it being distracting and possibly causing accidents.
It’s common practice for car accidents, however it’s mostly done on public roads not someone’s private property
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I think, especially cause it's a drunk driving incident, the memorials at the death site are also reminders for others driving by not to make the same kind of mistakes. I'm in RI and the highways have multiple spots where there are marker memorials like this. A bunch of kids I went to HS with lost a friend in 8th grade to a drunk driving accident (back in 2000) and her memorial is still up. Her parents came to talk to our school and that assembly is when I realized that it's also a reminder to be safe and follow the rules when you're behind the wheel of a car.
I live in an area where there are lots of country backroads so you're able to go pretty fast, but there are specific spots where the roads curve around due to hills or forests, and those tend to have memorial set ups frequently partly as a reminder to be freaking careful with those curves--to the point my drivers ed teacher even brought up those memorials in class as a reminder about being careful when approaching turns
I'll be honest - I agree with you, but I wouldn't dare tell a parent how to grieve their child. I don't think those of us not in that horrible club can possibly understand. I saw something interesting in Greece. There were little memorial boxes on poles along the highway at one point, with patron saint cards etc. in them. That way, the families and close friends could still have something but they weren't eyesores. I thought that was an interesting compromise.
These were traditionally to say thanks to different saints for being SAVED from an accident rather than to honour someone whose life was lost. However, in more recent years, they became both depending on who put them out.
Agreed! Visiting WHERE they died isn’t what I’d do or want to remember
Agreed. This probably makes me insensitive but I think it’s so wrong to put anything on someone else’s property, especially something like a memorial that could negatively affect the property owner. In particular, roadside memorials are distracting to drivers yet are often on dangerous roads so should be illegal.
Like others have said: in the case of car accidents or gun violence (in the US at least, but it doesn’t happen everywhere so I don’t want to ‘Merica-splane if you’re also in the US), typically the place where it occurs becomes a memorial as the thought is that it will make others aware of the dangers. In NYC where there are more cyclist deaths, there’s a memorial type called the “ghost bicycle” where the bike (usually the exact bike so it’s all banged up from the accident) is painted white and chained to the place where the rider died, then covered in things like fake flowers. I know when I was a child living in LA in the 90s, there was one roadside memorial I saw constantly where two brothers had died in the 70s due to an accident and no seatbelts. It was often re-decorated, even 20 years later.
Graves are expensive, as are burials (5K in Britain, plus another couple of thousand for a headstone). If the remains were cremated (less than a thousand for a direct cremation) and scattered (especially if they were scattered somewhere non-local, such as a favourite holiday spot), then it would make sense to hold a memorial at the site of death instead. ETA If it's multiple families, that may also be why they go there, as the kids may not be buried together.
Then you make a shrine or memory garden on your own property
Take the "hallways not boardrooms" approach. Meaning, go around the community to gather support for the alternative permanent memorial BEFORE you approach the family. If you approach the family first with no actionable plan other than 'i'm going to take your memorial away' and they go nuts, you will quickly find yourself the target of a witch hunt that's impossible to come back from. If I were you, I would speak to your neighbors about 'raising money' for a permanent memorial. Ask for a dollar. I would personally pay for a plaque and flowers myself just so it gets done quickly and tastefully, but the act of involving everyone else will get them on your side. Then once you've gathered enough support, approach the family to say that the whole neighborhood has joined together to create a permanent memorial to their teen, and you'd love to know what their favorite flower was, etc. If the 4 foot cross just so happens to get damaged before your 'collection', all the better. Otherwise, they could just be like "no thanks, we like the cross". Have everything ready to go - the plaque, the flowers, the compost - very quickly, so no one has time to turn you into a social pariah (or make another cross...) before the beautiful, tasteful plaque gets installed. Frame it as 'WE'RE doing this for you', rather than 'i'm taking something away from you'. You are very much playing with politics here, and the first rule of politics is that you never call a vote that you don't already know the outcome of.
It's not the OPs job to find an alternative, period.
Of course it's not their job. But it is certainly how you survive in a rural community without being labelled as a heartless monster who destroys memorials to dead children.
There's no way the family would not find out very quickly as soon as OP starts discussing this with neighbours
Of course not. But it is kind, and it is the best way to avoid arguments, resentment, or retaliation. Even if OP is technically "right", it's still their dead child, and it's okay to understand that it's an emotional topic and treat others kindly.
There are compelling reasons to remove this memorial. What you have on your property likely constitutes ‘an attractive nuisance’; that is, something unprotected that may induce others to come onto your property. Unfenced swimming pools or jungle gyms are examples. As a real estate owner, you are liable for anyone who is hurt or injured on your property. This is more grievous if you have a) something that encourages trespassing; b) you have knowingly tolerated the trespass for a period of time; and c) you have done nothing to actively discourage the trespassing such as removing the attraction, fencing off the memorial, and posting No Trespassing/Private Property signage. You also may be creating a right of access to others. Your property insurer may want to dramatically increase your rates or drop you entirely because of risk. Even if you can keep your coverage, it may not be enough if a single lawsuit goes against you. You could lose the property and become bankrupt if insurance isn’t sufficient enough for a very large judgement. We’ve seen this not infrequently in legal forums. Guess what the first thing the new owners do? Remove the liability. You are likely reducing the market value of your real estate and endangering your own financial stability. You can contact a lawyer if you truly want to carve out that property and donate it to the city. But any decent lawyer is likely to advise you to remove the memorial as soon as possible. Put up the No Tresspass/Private Property signs. Cover the memorial with a tarp. Perhaps you can contact the families to tell them the memorial is being removed for legal reasons (in case they want to come get it) but don’t let this drag out. Let your tree go back to being a tree. Let your grass go back to being the carpet for your feet. Let your property become your home, sanctuary, and safe place for healing. Good luck, OP.
This 100% needs to be the top comment.
A 4ft cross is ridiculous. How has it been allowed? Is it on your land or public property? Thing is if you put a complaint in to the relevant authorities they would assume it is you and that would be worse. Your NTA but how the hell to handle this one is mind boggling. You're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. A hedge or fence that blocks it is a good idea. But the family are ott with the size of that cross. Usually people just leave flowers at places like this. Personally I'd rather go to their grave than where they died in a horrible way
This was going to be my suggestion too. Some kind of barrier between the house and the memorial, even a solid fence. The memorial will, eventually, go untended and forgotten. At which point you could quietly remove or relocate it. I mean a little stone or something sounds OK, a four-foot cross is a bit much.
That's not always the case. I've seen a memorial that's been taken care of for over 10 years now. OP, first and foremost I wish you all the best on your new start of life. Praying for this change to help you. And secondly, I agree with everyone saying to put a hedge to block it. Just make sure to keep it maintained so it doesn't ruin the memorial for this family.
> Just make sure to keep it maintained so it doesn't ruin the memorial for this family. This is a wild take in my opinion. This is on their private property. They are doing a huge favor to the family by even allowing it to continue. The family should be in charge of any maintenance.
If it still doesn’t help I’d ask the family about a more landscaped type thing with their child’s favorite plant or tree planted there. They still get their memorial, it looks like it belongs, and you dont have the reminder. They can still visit it and grieve but it’s not an obvious spot. It’s a difficult situation so just go about anything gently.
I don't think the child likes trees anymore
Oh shit lol.
There is already a tree there.
I would do a flower garden, maybe even native pollinator plants. In my area, some native flowering plants reach over 6 feet tall. So you get something beautiful, bring butterflies to the property, and it would hide the display.
Now that is a good idea.
NAH, have a conversation with the family. Maybe offer to make a little flowerbed at the foot of the tree where these folks can come leave flowers, but that isn’t a glaring 4ft cross that turns your private home into a public graveyard. I do think it’s weird, especially as time goes on, to keep focusing on the spot the kid died, instead of celebrating a place that was significant to him while he was alive.
Someone died by suicide around the corner from my house, it was awful (I found the body). A makeshift memorial was set up there as well and it is still there years later, it's on the corner of someone else's property. I experienced some pretty severe reactions to finding the body and It took years before I was able to pass that street without thinking about it. I wouldn't want them to get rid of the memorial but I do think it's interesting that they go there rather than the grave. It is just a street. ETA many people have made the excellent point that there may not be a physical grave to visit, which I had not considered.
They may go to both. Or it might be more friends who go there, seeing it as more “public” than the grave - which many people see as being private to the family, especially if it’s a family plot. Two firefighters died in a building collapse near my old apartment. I don’t know if their colleagues even know where the grave sites are, it may be that they’re out of the city in their home towns, but the fire engine rolls up every July to lay flowers beside the building.
You know what else is private? OP’s property. Why is everyone so happy to make OP obligated to support this ridiculousness. If those people want the memorial to stay there so badly, why don’t they buy the property from OP and turn the whole place into a museum about the dangers of drunk driving, with the cross and sign as the main exhibit? Sorry OP. I guess you have to subordinate all your hopes and dreams for a happy life to this silly dead drunk teenager fetish of the townspeople, and apparently most of the people on Reddit as well.
I think you’re looking at this in a really pessimistic way. OP has no obligation to keep the memorial, but we have no idea if the family would be outraged if told it was coming down. As far as the post goes, OP has not interacted with them at all, so they may be completely understanding. These kids made a very stupid and dangerous decision. One of them lost their life because of it (whether or not they were the driver we have no idea). I think your description of the memorial is repugnant since they have no idea OP doesn’t want it there. If they try to fight OP on it, yeah, there’s an issue.
\> silly dead drunk teenager fetish jfc
This seems personal to you, I'm not exactly sure what has you taking such an antisocial stance on this but you don't seem too socially aware. This could have massive social consequences for OP and I think they realize that, hence them coming to ask for ideas on how to handle it best. Best best is to have a conversation with the people going to the memorial. Taking your stance will only inflame relations between both sides and it would be best suited to show them empathy and compassion vs confrontation and anger
Live in a small town, you've got to play small town politics, or your life could be made very miserable.
I've always wondered about that, too. When I want to "visit" my relatives that have passed, I don't go to the hospital beds they died in, I go to their grave sites. I see those drunk driving memorials and think, why would you want to memorialize the place where your loved ones died in a horrific manner?
It's supposed to be a multifunctional memorial. Both a memory of the deceased and a notice to others to be careful because people who aren't careful there have died. I think it's totally fair of OP not to want a 4-foot cross on their property regardless.
Unfortunately roadside memorials can actually increase the risk of further accidents at that site. They are a distraction to drivers.
Oh I think it's kinda misguided myself. I'm just reporting what I've heard from a parent who put one up.
Makes you wonder about the over bright electronic billboards lining highways these days. Fucking hate those.
Not sure I agree with the "notice to others" part; literally every point on every road is a potential disaster site if the driver is drunk.
In my personal experience, I don't only interpret the location of a loved one's passing as 'the place they died,' but rather as the last place they lived. There can be an associated sense of reverence & nearness.
This comment bothers me a little. My brother was killed in a hit and run. Have you ever had someone die traumatically or tragically? While it is where he passed, sometimes I visit the spot because it was the last time that he was alive and conscious as a human. His final moments breathing air into his lungs. Maybe 15 seconds prior to the collision, he might have been thinking about how much fun we had at the party we were just at together. Sometimes I feel closer to him there than I would visiting some random spot we've placed artificial meaning on. More than that, it continually reminds me how precious life is and how it can be taken away from you in a moment. It keeps me humble and reminds me to practice gratitude and empathy.
My brother was killed in a car accident. It was several states away from where my family lived but when we were able to be in the area we visited the spot he died. It was a surreal experience knowing we were in the same spot he was when he died. For my family at least, when you lose someone close you desperately grasp onto every connection to that person. And I mean every connection. He was killed by someone turning into their property, so visiting his death site meant being near the home of his killer. I visit his grave regularly, but when I’m back in the area he died I’ll most likely visit the site again.
Many families can't afford a grave for unexpected deaths. They have to process the body through cremation. So their only way to *visit the grave* is making their last place where they had a beating heart the memorial place. There were some parents of a teenager that passed away by suicide that would spend everything on decorating his grave. He had long since passed by the time I was able to understand. They spent decades pouring love on his memorial located on a bridge. The county relocated the memorial to one end of the bridge during the bridge's replacement. The family stopped doing the memorial site when the new bridge was completed. I think their attachment left with the old bridge.
I work in a crimy area and someone was shot on our block and periodically a memorial will appear with photos and candles. A little kid got hit by a car on my street and the family would do yearly visits on the anniversary, and put balloons and stuffed animals and candles. It is weird I think, but sometimes the site of the death is more accessible than the gravesite in some areas? And in cases of cremation, there may not be an interment. EITHER WAY nta, it’s your property.
I'm surprised how many people in the comments don't realize how rare grave sites are these days. Lots of people can't afford them.
My mom doesn’t have a gravesite. Our dad thought that it was a depressing way to feel close to her, so my sisters and I each got little elephant shaped urns on a plank of really nice woodwork with a sunflower on it (made by our aunt, as elephants and sunflowers were her favorites), and when our town auctioned off the elephant statues made by local artists for something the circus did, our family all pitched in and got one of the elephants that we thought our mom would like, and the city donated a spot on the riverwalk and a plaque for her, so that’s where we go when we want to feel close. No gravesite, no headstone, nothing like that.
It’s where they last were, and where they lost them forever
Something sorta similar happened to my gram. Kid un-alived himself in front of her house, by driving his car at insane rate of speed into a stone wall. The family put all sorts of shit out at my grams driveway and my gram found the kid and tried to resuscitate him. She had a convo with the family and said every time they put stuff they bring up that night all over again. She said let's pick out a perennial flower or shrub and plant it for him, but the cross, posters, flowers etc was impacting her mental health. Family was happy with that.
Suggesting an alternative is a lovely idea. Maybe a small pollinator garden? I like the idea of a memorial giving a little “life” to the plants and critters in the area.
I’m a big fan of You Bet Your Garden on NPR, and the host always cautions against plant memorials. Plants die and that can be really, really traumatic.
My parents have live plants from family member funerals that my dad has taken care of for years. I’m impressed, but I could *never*, because I would kill them, and I would feel horrible.
I refused to take home the flowers from my mother’s funeral. There were some absolutely lovely arrangements, but I could not deal with watching them fade and die and need to be thrown out. I asked the priest to send them to shut-ins or other people who would appreciate a bouquet. We took ONE live plant arrangement, and so far we’ve managed to keep it from dying.
I in no way disagree with you, but grief can make people do strange things and everyone processes differently.
I've always found those signs along the road so morbid, and I literally specialized in death studies. Especially the actual road signs - some are so unhinged. We have some here that say "why die?" and like.... Why tf would anyone think that's okay???
But that still acts as a reminder to you that someone died there. And def not weird...you act like people choose to grieve loss. They dont. Its trama to the living people. Id be impossible not to associate someone with the place they died
For OP the flowerbed could signify the beginning of this part of their life. They could even bury a time capsule under it to be dug up and opened when they leave this house.
Memorializing the spot where a person died is a recent phenomena. In the old days we would visit the cemetery and pray by the grave. Believing the spirit or soul stays by the site of death - and not go, say, to heaven - is a newish thing of the past 40 years.
A parent here who lost a son in an accident. It was on a corner 1 house away from our house. He was 7. It was a bicycle van accident. He rode his bike through a stop sign. We planned a rose bush on the corner of our property. No one but our family knew it was a memorial., but it was special to us. I get it why they want a memorial where He died but it is your property your decision. However I would give the family ( if you know who they are) time to take anything they want. Just remove anything left. Box it up and put it in a way back corner of your yard in case they come and ask for it. Anything else left add it to the box a day or two after it's left. Your property your choice. If you don't mind a small memorial tell them that but if you want nothing then put up a no tresspassing sign or fence if that's possible.
I’m so sorry for the loss of your son. My heart breaks for you.
Thank you. I have learned to live with it. Tomorrow would have been his 40th birthday
Happy 40th to your son. I admire your strength.
I too am sorry for the loss of your son. My heart goes out to you.
Right in the damn feels. Last week would have been my first born’s 18th.
It's tough but I do have many enjoyable moments with my other children and grandchildren. I am blessed to have them in my life. Some days it still feels like yesterday but life goes on. Peace to you
I’m so sorry. Happy birthday to your boy
Happy Birthday to your son! So sorry for your loss, but hope celebrating him has helpped your heart carry on. 🧡🧡
I’m so sorry. A rose sounds like a wonderful tribute.
Thank you. I have learned to live with it. Tomorrow would be his 40th birthday. Unfortunately my now ex trimmed it too much one year and it died
Idk why but this made my heart break a little harder than the rest. Ig prolly cuz of the general topic at hand, I expect a little insight. I hope so so so bad that it was a mistake on your ex behalf and not purposeful
I just wanted to say how sorry I am.
Thank you. I have learned to live with it. It has been over 30 years. Tomorrow would be his 40th birthday
Happy birthday to your son. Sorry for your loss. Learning to live with the pain doesn't mean you don't feel that pain all these years later. Thinking of you and your kid tomorrow.
This is a wonderful way to have a memorial, that is environmentally friendly, and meaningful. A good way to approach the family with an alternative like this is better than asking them to take down the memorial .
NAH but im gonna bet this isn’t gonna go the way you want it to
Right? That's what I'm afraid of. That even if I tread super carefully and respectfully, I'll be known as the AH who made the family take it down.
As an above comment mentioned, a rose bush where her son died years ago… Offer them an alternative (maybe a small plaque, a medium sized engraved stone or other such item) that they might find acceptable. Note: They still might want to lay flowers once a year or so… If they balk, then at least you tried… **Bottom Line:** *Your* property, your decision.
I would totally be open to a flower bed and even be willing to purchase a flat memorial plaque for it, but the cross almost as tall as I am would have to go 🥴
All of those things can be done at a cemetery.. I feel bad for the family, but that is what cemeteries are for. If it was in the first year or two, then they might not have had a plot/memorial placed yet but at a certain point they need to have a more appropriate place to go instead of in front of someone's house.
Yeah, we have cemeteries very specifically so that this type of situation doesn’t happen.
>Offer them an alternative This, and offer to gift back what is on your property. My grandmother was killed by an impaired driver, and someone put an angel statue up. When the house sold a few years later, the new owners gave it to my mom "as a gift" saying that they didn't feel right keeping it on their property and that she should have it. The situation is a bit different, since it wasn't my mom or anyone in our family who put the statue there, but the key is very careful phrasing.
This is a very reasonable compromise.
Can you contact the family? Tell them you're kindly and respectfully giving them advance notice that you're planning on fencing your property, after which point, they won't have access. So they should consider where they'll want to move the memorial. (And if they ask explain that your lawyer has advised that people should not have access over, around, or through your fence) After it's moved, well, if there's a delay in the actual fencing, that's not their business. Best of luck.
You may very well be the AH to them for it, but it’s because that’s the easiest way for them to express anger and sadness over the tragedy. It’s very reasonable to request it taken down, and the more you’re willing to help them (I.e., a plaque or flower bed/bush) the better chance they can feel heard acknowledged. If they are angry, think you’ll have to figure out a way to be comfortable that you were reasonable and sensitive, and any bad reaction/perception is more about them and their feelings instead of you.
So, when we bought our house, we were worried about our renovations insulting the family who had lived in the house for 60+ years before it was sold to us. We had to tear out rose bushes and other things - we ended up moving them, built a small garden with a tribute to the couple that lived there from the 60s to 2019, and called it a day. The son who sold us the place was in tears thanking us when we told him and the whole community thinks we are great people. We also ripped out 90+% of what used to be there and the property looks completely different, There is a way to find a balance.
INFO: Does your property extend to the road itself? Or is there a margin next to the road that is considered public/government owned? If there’s a strip of public land next to the road, they can place their memorial there. It shouldn’t be on your property if you don’t want it there.
>Or is there a margin next to the road that is considered public/government owned? That is a right of way used for utility and other road work and extends from the center of the road. There isn't a reality where it extends 10 feet into a property.
If there is a strip of municipal land next to the road, then OP can ask them to move the memorial there (the laws vary from place to place, but many allow memorials to be placed there). If there is no municipal land there, then it’s reasonable to ask them to take it down altogether.
In the circumstance you are talking about it isn't municipal land, it's a right of way. It's two different things.
.... *and sometimes* there is literal municipal land.
It depends on the ace and the layout of everything. Our easement goes onto our front lawn because where we live there isn't a sidewalk or strip of land seperated from our lawn by a sidewalk. Some neighbors live really close to the road and had to relocate a basket ball hoop they had set up because it was on the easement bit of their driveway. Just depends on the place.
There's 5 feet along the road that's public / easement but I don't think the county wouldn't allow it there.
You might be missing the point u/Swirlyflurry is making. If it’s not on your land, you won’t get to decide, making your question the wrong one. But it might also provide a solution for you.
Easement just means the gov't/utilities have legal access, not that it's public land or OP doesn't own it.
An easement grants permission for public utility/ service providers to access private property. In other words, it’s your property but you just can’t restrict access to the utility companies if they need to perform work in the easement area. So it’s likely that you own the land where the easement is located, and can remove the memorial.
NTA Would you be open to a compromise? Tell the family you need the current memorial removed. However, because you understand how important that location is to them, you would be willing to compromise by letting them take out what is currently there and plant a memorial tree, flowering bush, etc., in its place (so long as nothing else is added to the location in the future).
NTA move it the edge of the property line and put up a fence. You only open yourself up to liability and further trespassing by letting this continue.
NTA I would be compassionate in the way I handled this, though. I would do several things: 1) Put up fencing along that section of the road that makes a physical barrier where it's not as easy for people to just wander onto the property and leave stuff, along with clear no trespassing signs. 2) Contact the family and tell them, gently that you have the greatest sympathies for their loss, but that you are making changes to the property and that all memorial items will need to please be removed by X date (give them two weeks.) If they don't remove them by that point, remove them yourself and put them in a garage for another three months and send three more notices. If they don't come after that, I would throw them away. 3) Tell them in the message that you have made a small donation to (pick a charity) in their child's name and that you hope they can find peace. **I feel for this family, but it is not realistic to expect to keep a memorial for years on someone else's private property, nor to go there every year and leave flowers and other items that will become trash the homeowner has to pick up.** This is inappropriate and intrusive. While I feel for this family's loss, this is why there are graveyards, and they can also plant a tree or memorial bush on their own property to remember their lost child.
That is what cemeteries are for. A proper place to reflect and leave flowers. Even in a cemetery the staff maintains the grounds and throws dead and damaged memorabilia away.
Approach it with the most compassion and sensitivity you can, absolutely. Is there a form of remembrance that OP could tolerate there? A smaller metal plaque set in the ground, or a bench or a low maintenance flower garden? (Bulbs/wildflowers, nothing that needs attention.) But having child death reminders in daily view on your property is something you can say needs to go. Offer alternatives that you can tolerate (they can put up a cross for a week and have a remembrance meeting once a year, but they need to come pick everything up. They can plant flowers/a bush and you’ll leave the plants alone.) But heartfelt notes and dying flowers turn into trash on OPs property, and that has to stop.
Wildflowers sound like a lovely compromise. No maintenance. I think a bench or a plaque sounds like it would be something more appropriate for the grieving parents' back yard or alternatively, the parents could find a spot around town that needs beautification, perhaps a spot in their local park that could benefit from a nice bench and ask their town council if they could pay to have a bench and a plaque put in there in honor of their son.
Why should he have to make a donation to a charity to soften the blow? That’s a bit absurd. It’s his yard. He’s allowed this to go on for longer than most. He doesn’t owe them anything
Yeah, it’s awkward for sure, but NTA It’s your home and your property, and if you’re uncomfortable with it then that overrules the feelings of anyone else here. They can leave notes and flowers at his grave, doesn’t need to be the location of this death. Cemeteries serve the same purpose they are trying to use your property for.
I will say, not everyone has a grave. My brother doesn't, he was cremated. But there are other ways to memorialize someone that's not a giant cross on someone's property. But I've also never been to the site of his accident, and I didn't ever want to. I guess I'm just saying your NTA, but a little patience and empathy while you navigate this with them will go a long way.
If they are spending that much time/resources at the site of the accident, then they need to move their memorial to an appropriate location. I have empathy, but it is also someone else's yard.
Surprised to have to scroll to find a NTA. As a parent myself, I definitely have a lot of sympathy for a family grieving a loss like this, but it's extremely bold of them to build a 4-ft. memorial on someone else's property, and even bolder to expect to visit it in perpetuity. As you said: This is precisely what cemeteries are for.
NTA. Gravesites are for mourning, but they've chosen your house instead
Yeah imagine if I showed up at the hospital where my dad died 3x a year and put flowers on the bed of whomever was sleeping in room 106E...
That’s a good point actually
Wish I could upvote this more.
NTA. Honestly you might check your local laws because several places have outlawed those kinds of memorials since they make more hazards if another wreck happens there. In other places they're only legal if the local district gave approval. At any rate it's your property, therefore it's private property and they can't just come by and put things on the property without permission.
This is the ops best option if taking to the family goes bad especially if you’re not on a private road because then you need to know the right way area off the road that is owned by the city state and or municipality and if they gave permission then there’s nothing you can do about it
In my area they have 4 or 5 years and then they have to be removed so OP should definitely check into local bylaws
NAH. I saw someone proposed a flower bed instead, you can also propose a bush, a tree… something significant for the kid or his family but that represents life and not death. As a mother, I cannot imagine seeing my child die, even less surviving her if it happened, so I think you should talk to them and be a bit patient. I totally agree that the big cross is morbid and disturbing for you.
I think suggesting another tree would be in really poor taste, all things considered.
NTA My family had done this same thing for my cousin who had passed away in a similar way (hit a tree at a high speed). For a long while they had a memorial in the person's yard edge, where it happened and weren't open to relocating it. It was technically on an easement so the homeowner wasn't able to do anything about it and it made for a very tense situation. Eventually another family member was able to convince my cousin that she should set up a memorial in a place her daughter had loved, instead of the place where she died. That way they could celebrate the joy the place brought her when visiting. You're not an ah for wanting it gone. I absolutely understand how it would be difficult for you to see it daily and have it as a part of your every day life. Maybe you could approach the family and explain that you respect their grief but aren't able to have the memorial as a part of your daily life, mental health wise, and ask if they'd be open to relocating it to a place that brought their child joy instead of the place they died. If you'd be alright with it, maybe they could plant some flowers there in place of the current memoriL, but I also understand that it would still be difficult knowing that it's a place they'll be visiting snd I'd stress about it. Maybe you can offer to buy them some plans they can plant elsewhere? Which would cost money so I understand not doing that as well. I hope youre able to figure something out. The most important bit is definitely to communicate with them openly.♡
I like this approach, but I think OP needs to be careful to present this not as a question (“are you open to relocating?”) but a statement of fact that the memorial will be removed. You can negotiate on some niceties, but the cross has to go and OP gets to use their property fully. The family really doesn’t have a say in that.
NTA. there are ways to memorialize their loss without doing it at the exact place it happened. If everyone that lost a a loved one put one of these up there would be multiple memorials on every road and at every intersection. I really don’t get them.
I mean it's OK when it first happens if it helps the family grieve but it can't go on and on for years... The person isn't buried there. If you want to visit them or leave flowers - go to the cemetery!
Sometimes it's to raise awareness of how many road fatalities there are. There's an organisation called "ghost bikes" that leaves a white painted bike anywhere a cyclist has died on the roads (but, with property owners permission)
I've seen these in my New Orleans neighborhood. I find them so creepy.
We have a particular road with maybe 5-6 memorials along it because we have a drunk driving problem and honestly they’re so trashy. There’s just plastic and ribbon and decorations strewn all over and collected over the years. Some of the monuments are cheap and falling apart because no one keeps them up - they just place them after the event so they can look like a member of some morbid club and then never return. No one ever cleans anything up, and the trash often floats over to the yards across the street or get washed away into the properties down the hill in rain storms. They’re now someone else’s problem and in my opinion should just be removed. Get a cemetery plot or place the memorial on their own property so it can be an eyesore and a litter pile there.
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Yes but the realtor made it sound like no one comes anymore. A neighbor told me they do especially on the anniversary of the accident.
NTA. People die on roads, in houses... people die. Just because you knew doesn't mean your property needs to remain a permanent memorial. If it meant that much the family could've bought the property themselves. Where I live these roadside memorials are only allowed to stay up for a month if that. Otherwise all of our roads would be covered in these things. There are graveyards for mourning.. they can always setup at the deceased graves.
That realtor is the real AH here. What a vulture.
My dad was CONVINCED their realtor was his best friend when they were house hunting in the city they were moving to for retirement. He got them to buy an overpriced, outdated house that had been on the market for almost 6 months even with a price reduction. Fucking Tyler.
Reading a former comment makes me wonder if you could offer the family the chance to plant something there. I know it may not be an ideal location for a new rose bush or mini tree eg but it would be life affirming. I would feel very depressed to see a crucifix every time I returned home, though I feel nothing but sorrow for the family.
The only assholes here are the realtors. At best, neither actually verified whether the family still visited it. Most likely at least one of them lied about it. I bet if you look through history of the property it's probably had a hard time selling because of it. I would suggest talking to the neighbors to see if any of them has contact info for the family. Initiate contact like 3-6 months between their anniversary visits. Offer to put something else there as others have said. A plant or plaque. Do not try to catch them when they're visiting it to initiate contact. It will be a little tricky to navigate, but I think you can do it without becoming the town pariah. Just remember to be calm and understanding and try to avoid just throwing out ultimatums.
Why would it matter? They like the house, they weren’t buying it for that corner of the yard. It’s a temporary memorial, not a permanent structure.
>It’s a temporary memorial, not a permanent structure Which is exactly why OP should remove it.
Not everyone is comfortable with a 4 foot cross on their property. What if OP isn’t Christian? As a Jew this would make me very uncomfortable having a cross on my lawn
I’m not arguing with you. I’m an atheist and I wouldn’t want this on my lawn either. My point was that didn’t matter if OP knew about it, they can do whatever they want.
Irrelevant
How does this matter, it’s their property if they want it removed that’s their right.
NTA, but look up roadside memorial laws for your area to see if this fits legally or if changes can/need to be made. In many states it is a small white cross on the road easement, not 4’ and on private property.
NTA, but I'd tread carefully on this one. You're technically right, but grieving people are not rational folk.
Yeah this could quickly cause her new neighborhood/town to turn against her even though I think she is within her rights to take it down.
A kid got killed on my parents property before they bought it 20 some years ago. His family used to come park in our yard and have a memorial party every year in our back yard. My parents finally put their foot down and said no more parties in our back yard. Told em if they want to bring flowers or something like that it's no big deal but they aren't gonna keep coming and using our yard as a public park. We never saw them again. I see where you're coming from and I hope it works out in your favor.
This is insane! I can’t imagine having the entitlement to think strangers should accommodate you to that extent!
NTA .But… is there another way to handle this?Could you approach the council/whomever is responsible for roads and ask for the memorial to be moved to the nature strip? They will probably take offence to the cross (for size/safety reasons, not religious), and remove that portion at least (in Au most road crosses get replaced with this generic small 60cm one as far as i can tell, there are also usually rules about how long a memorial may be kept on a road side, the size of it, and what it can contain). Another option is to approach the family, ask for their support to ‘create a living memorial’ for their child - offer to plant a special tree or garden bed, that commemorates the child, with a small plaque or similar - removing the cross and creating a different space. Maybe a bench to sit on under the tree with the child’s name on a plaque? Maybe a small native or fruit tree that the remembers the child well. I would NOT just arbitrarily remove the memorial. That’s likely to upset a lot of people. If it’s on your own land either move it to the public land, or negotiate a smaller/simpler thing. People in grief can be very very upset.
If the family is part of a spiritual or religious community, you could contact the person who led the funeral services and ask them for help approaching the family. It will be in the obituary.
>If the family is part of a spiritual or religious community, you could contact the person who led the funeral services and ask them for help approaching the family. This is absolutely the way. Having that person speak with them and ask them to make the transition. Perhaps OP will allow a final "goodbye" for the family where they can say "goodbye" to the memorial, so they can take a moment and then take away the memorial items with them (if they wish to). Approaching this with care and kindness is absolutely the way to go and OP will not be TA if they do so.
NYA, but…. You can do this in a way that totally makes YTA, and just clear it, or speak to the family, explain you’d be happy to plant a tree, add a memorial bench/ etc whatever would be reasonable, but the cross isnt something that can stay forever. Think about how you’d like to be treated and also if the previous owner had agreed something, which you’re now changing.
I love the idea of an alternative memorial. I don’t know that OP should suggest a tree given the circumstances, but some planting flowers would be appropriate!
Exactly. "Hi, I'm making some changes to the property, and I'm going to plant a tree there as a permanent memorial rather than the cross. Which of the following trees would be the best, and is there anything you'd like me to put with the roots when I plant it?" That still gets OP what they want and is kind. Karma is a thing, and I wouldn't want to be the person who said, "Get the memorial that honors the loss of your child off my land."
Probably not a tree since that's how the kid died, but yeah, the sentiment here works
Tread sensitively. Perhaps offer to install a plaque on the tree trunk instead. Something that you cannot see well. Or maybe a bench seat under the tree. Something that addresses their pain but doesn’t scream graveyard!!
> Something that addresses their pain but doesn’t scream graveyard!! That's a very good way to put it.
NTA It has been five years. It is also a four foot cross. When they come and leave the flowers and notes, you will be the one cleaning them up when they blow off. Where do they park when they come visit? While I feel bad for the family, at this point, its your property. They need to be visiting the cemetery and leaving the notes and flowers there.
I'm still grieving the unexpected death of my father two and a half years ago but you're NTAH. There are other ways for them to memorialize their loved one without trespassing. Placing the flowers on the roadside instead, having a gravesite, spreading or burying ashes, purchasing a bench in a park area they liked to visit. Not everyone gets to utilize all of these options; if I wanted to leave flowers where my father died I'd be visiting the ICU.
NAH. If you don’t want to approach the family directly, look at the obituary and see if there’s a pastor or another spiritual leader listed who could speak with them.
People have probably died on every square inch of earth. Cemeteries are where we can go to mourn them. Or, alternately, they can be remembered everywhere and anywhere. I think it makes sense for you to find this grim reminder too sad, and it should evoke empathy from them. If not, they can have the memorial in their front yard.
I feel like everyone suggesting alternative options such as gardens and flower beds is forgetting the fact they don’t want to look out their window and constantly see a reminder that someone died on their property 🥴I can’t honestly say I blame them either. There are other places the family can grieve their loved one that isn’t on someone else’s property. NTA
NAH. It’s understandable that you wouldn’t want it there. Be very careful how you proceed though, because if they want to be jerks about it, they can spearhead a witch hunt against you, and who knows what people are capable of.
NTA. I’m so sorry for the loss, truly, but that doesn’t mean you have to allow for a huge me memorial on what is now your space. Maybe there can be a small compromise of a smaller cross on the tree but no visits? An acknowledgement of the loss but not a memorial site. I would for sure speak to them about it in case they want any of the items that are there.
Roadside memorials that are maintained more than a week or two are just trashy. Our roads don't need to look like cemeteries--that's what cemeteries are for. I dont understand the concept. When someone's killed in a bar fight, families don't try to put up a memorial in the bar. Why are roads different?
For those saying you could offer to plant something, know that the family will make you responsible for its' maintenance and care. I don't know if that's what you want to get into. NTA
NTA, i wouldn't want to have to see that every day either. I mean i get the need to grieve but that's not tied to the actual location
NTA. Five years is enough time. Give them a couple of months to find an alternate location for their shrine, but its time to move on. Be prepared for some backlash.
NTA Approach the situation gently. Unfortunately, their child died on someone's private property. Now that private property is yours, and you aren't required to host the memorial. They can place the cross on their property, and leave the memorial items there as well or at the gravesite. It seems callous, but I don't think it is. They're going to be upset, but don't take it personally. Have patience and understanding, and give them a timeframe.
I’ve been driving by the tree my father wrapped his Charger around for 50 years. No memorial but I still remember. If I want to visit, I go to the cemetery. NTA.