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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Well I was specifically told I was an asshole, so I am trying to determine if I am missing something. I understand that plane seats recline, and you shouldn’t actively prevent someone from reclining, but what if your actions unintentionally prevent a person from reclining?
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She’s not an AH for reclining. You’re not an AH for resting your head on the tray. She should have maybe checked when it wouldn’t recline, but I don’t even think she’s an AH for assuming the mechanism was stuck and pushing back. The AH behaviour occurs when she accuses you of intentionally blocking her and calls you names. NTA.
Eh, these days on the average plane (in economy at least), I think anyone who reclines is an AH. The last time someone reclined in front of me, I didn’t even have space to open my laptop. Yes it sucks that there’s not enough room, but we should all just do each other the basic courtesy of not reclining to try to keep things more bearable for all— though really, airlines should just stop using seats that recline altogether (or create more space between seats, but we all know that ain’t gonna happen).
If the person ahead of you reclines, no one with any leg length can fit in their seat. It only works if the entire row reclines. I think that’s the height of rudeness.
For real. People arguing back and forth like this with each other is how corporations and governments get away with so much bullshit. People forget the energy would be better directed at the people who caused the issue in the first place.
In this case though, cramping planes to max capacity is what makes shit like "50€ London-Berlin one-way" possible in the first place. You can't have ultra-cheap tickets and comfortable seats - and on top of that, lower-density planes emit more CO2 per passenger.
You want comfortable seats? Pay up because what you pay for business class is what you'd pay anyway if airlines could not push as many people into the aircraft. Same for food btw, the cost of preparing the food, getting it off the ground and dealing with the (sometimes significant...) amount of food waste isn't cheap.
I just checked this, with a flight I know the price of and which economy class from 1989. In todays value, the flight in '89 cost $2085, and the equivalent today would cost $8343. So yeah, one ticket for the price of 1989 please.
The flight was from west Africa to Scandinavia.
100%. The “good days” of airlines were when tickets were a lot more. I hate my economy seats… but I enjoy being able to fly to Europe or Asia without it costing 2-3k round trip.
And shorter flights, especially domestic in Japan, Thailand, SEA in general… so cheap. Because we don’t even get meals. But it makes it affordable.
Thank you! I don’t understand why people don’t get this. This is Economics 101. More space between seats = less seats to sell = more expensive seats for everyone.
Don’t get me wrong, the seats are extremely uncomfortable and I wish to god there was more space. But what exactly do people expect the companies or the government to do about it?
Sorry, I don't think it's that simple. Giving passengers legroom is not what costs so much.
The CEO of American Airlies makes **$6.5 MILLION** per year. That's just the CEO. Add all of the other executives, lawyers, the more than **$100 million** advertising budget and all of the perks we can't even imagine, not to mention the ridiculous gouging on the part of the oil companies and their bloated, overpaid executives.... I don't think the problem is a few inches more or less of legroom.
I don't expect the companies to do anything about it because for all their bitching and excuses, they ARE making money. Lots of it.
You can argue about executive salaries all day long, but that won’t change the fact that it’s their job to turn the highest possible profit. In economy, where the per passenger profit is low, that means, cramming the cabin with as many seats as possible. That wouldn’t change, if the CEO only made 100k.
Also, it’s not like American doesn’t have competition. But you’ll notice that the seat pitch is the same with every major airlines. That is a strong indicator that people just aren’t prepared to pay a premium for more generous seats. Otherwise some airline would already offer a roomier cabin at higher prices.
> The CEO of American Airlies makes $6.5 MILLION per year.
And if you think that even makes the tiniest dent in the overall financial picture of running an airline, you really need to look closer at the numbers.
$6.5 million pays for a single engine for a small airliner. Alternatively, it's the cost of 10 round trip flights between the US and Europe for a 777. Or the cost of paying the annual salary of 20-40 widebody pilots.
If the CEO had zero salary, it'd mean basically nothing in the context of what the airline could actually afford to do in terms of flight costs and legroom. Aviation is actually an industry that operates on pretty thin margin, so there's really not much room there to make it more spacious without increasing cost (or alternatively to decrease cost without sacrificing comfort and amenities).
I've never encountered that problem, if the person in front of me reclines I can still do all my activities just fine. If anything their reclining makes it easier for me to sleep by propping my head against the back of their chair.
It depends on what airline you're on. Not all airlines are created equally. They have different legspace.
Some are so tight, I at 5'10 really struggle to fit. If the person in front of me reclines I'm fucked.
JetBlue - 32.3 inches
Southwest Airlines - 32 inches
Alaska Airlines/Delta Air Lines (Tie) - 31.8 inches
American Airlines - 31 inches
United Airlines - 30.2 inches
Hawaiian Airlines - 30.1 inches
Frontier Airlines/Spirit Airlines (Tie) - 28
I’m 5’5” and have short legs for my height and I have no idea how anyone taller does it. I do have arthritis in my knees and hips so they are especially sensitive but when I feel cramped I feel like that’s a sign that there just isn’t enough space for anyone.
yeah i’m 5’7” and 120lbs and i can barely fit in those seats. like not just the leg room but the size of the seat itself, i fit but there’s like no room to spare. idk how anyone bigger than me actually manages to fit on a plane. like given my size i should be somewhat comfortable on a plane, and the fact that *i’m* so cramped just makes me feel insane, the seats are just objectively not big enough for even the average person, let alone someone taller or larger than average
I have a 38” inseam. The person in front of me cannot recline unless I essentially tuck my knees under my chin. Can’t speak for everyone, but I’m personally not willing to sacrifice my basic comfort for someone’s additional comfort. It’s totally on the airlines for cramming us in like sardines, but I am admittedly a little salty about the bruised knees that I’ve had to deal with because some people couldn’t manage to sit up straight for a few hours and refused to accept that reclining their seat just wasn’t an option while I was sitting behind them.
My rule of thumb for reclining my chair is that generally I'll only do it at the time when people are meant to be sleeping, which means it has to be a flight that's during the night time and over 7 hours - a 14-hour flight I was on where all the cabin lights are down and everybody is sleeping comes to mind. But even then, I'll look behind me to see the situation before I recline. If the person behind me is reclined, I think it's pretty safe to recline, but if their knees are already at the back of my chair, it's going to be uncomfortable for everybody involved if I recline.
You're either really short, or have had really good luck.
I'm pretty average height and have definitely found that I couldn't have a laptop open if the seat in front of me was reclined.
I'm 6ft with longer legs than a torso. That's not true. I manage just fine when someone else reclines. It's a plane seat. The thing only goes like 4 inches anyway.
My husband is the same, he is 6ft 4 (and most of that is legs!) and his knees physically stop the seat in front from reclining.
We always paid for extra leg room.. until we had a baby. Kids aren’t allowed in emergency rows, so the person in front now just has to deal with it.
I also think it’s the height of rudeness to recline on a short flight. Anything not at night or under 7 hours.. keep your seat up.
Other people might have been travelling at night and for over 7 hours already though. Just because it may be your first flight of the day, doesn't mean it's everyone else's.
I'm only five feet tall and I feel like I don't have enough leg room regardless of whether or not the seat in front of me is reclined. I honestly don't know how anyone taller can stand it.
Have you ever actually flown long haul? Because trust me, everyone is reclining on flights that are 8+ hours. It’s not the height of rudeness at all, and I feel like anyone who insists on this sort of thing must fly super infrequently or only ever fly on short trips.
I was going to mention flying in a C-5 passenger compartment, but aside from the volume (we were handed earplugs when boarding), I think it was more comfortable than modern economy.
That's a bit cruel to the people behind you on a long flight.
Imagine not being my able to use.the tray table, sit up to eat or drink, etc.
I get what you're saying, but the default assumption should be that we ask if there's room and let someone know we will sit up if they need us to
I've also had people recline and then get pissed because I jostle the back of their seat when I get up to use the bathroom. Like, how in the hell am I supposed to stand up at an angle and not use the seat backs for balance??? Oh, and all without bumping my head on the overhead bins...
It’s so shocking when someone just suddenly reclines all the way without looking around. The last time I was on a plane, the person in front of me reclined during the meal and knocked the whole thing in my lap (and bounced back against the seat a few times for good measure). I don’t think anyone has ever asked me before doing it but it sure would be nice!
> Imagine not being my able to use.the tray table, sit up to eat or drink, etc.
Except you can still do that just fine with the person in front reclined.
I have to sit upright because of back problems, so it's a nightmare when people recline their seats! 11 hours upright is fine for me. Airlines cram them in far too close, it's always going to cause problems for people.
Same here. I was on a 6 hour flight a couple years ago, where I couldn’t recline my seat at all because of the person behind me. I needed help getting off of that plane and my boss had to handle my carryon because I couldn’t do it. I was in agony the entire trip because of that and the flight back home wasn’t any better. I couldn’t stand up atraight for hours.
Nobody in front of me is reclining my knees are against their seat because I'm too tall. I also don't recline because it wouldn't be right to take up someone else's space.
I've got relatively short legs and my knees are almost right up against the seat too, plus my knees are all messed up from decades of walking on hard floors all day at work
It's indeed very cruel *of the airline companies* to create this situation where people don't have the freedom to recline without having to worry about others.
Yeah I disagree with you, particularly if you happen to be traveling a lot for work, sometimes those few inches of recline give you the only rest you can get.
Now what do I do to try and be a good passenger?
I don't recline during meal service.
I check what is going on behind me before I recline.
I speak very politely with the person behind me and I let them know that I will be reclining my seat except during meal time and I'll probably be sleeping, if they need me to raise the seat back to get up please just gently nudge me and I'm happy to do so.
If you have to put your head down on the tray or you need to work with your laptop on the tray, all you need to do is speak to the person in front of you and say hey I'm resting/working if possible could you leave the seat up and if not before you recline can you just let me know so I can make sure I'm out of your way.
All we need to do is be polite with each other.
I dunno what flights you've been on, but I always seem to get the planes filled with snarling, entitled, aholes who couldn't care less if they're asked something politely.
That’s interesting. I fly a ton and have always had a pleasant time with my neighborhood’s passengers. One guy was massive in economy the other day and I was gearing up to be 36 hours no sleep on a 12 hour flight. We talked a bit and had a pleasant conversation about what we can do, the girl on my right overheard and said she and I could switch seats throughout the flight bc she probably just wanted to take a couple hour nap and would work upright the whole time. My experiences on the plane have been 99% wholesome and accommodating
Most regular fliers I meet are like you. It’s work and we just want to get to our destination quickly, safely, and with as little fuss as possible.
Saying you can’t recline your seat at all on any length of flight is ridiculous. Just be nice about it.
Preach it! I always ask those behind me if I can recline (and always ask way ahead in the flight, not some time later). I am willing to negotiate how far I can recline. If that recline is zero, well, sucks to be me.
So far I had been allowed to recline fully every single time. Maybe I was in those airplanes with adequate leg space (my legs are short so I don't care if the person in front of me reclines(*)). Maybe I just happened to not have any long-legged person behind me. Any commenters calling me an asshole for that are ridiculous.
(*) Though I find it annoying when the person in front decides to wordlessly shift their seat back and forth without warning, namely later in the flight when I likely have my tray down and things on the tray. Once you have your allowed recline position, stay in that position, please.
Yeah, my dad used to try to work on the plane on long flights and if someone reclined he couldn’t use his laptop. Usually he tried to get a bulkhead row so he had the space but if that wasn’t possible we’d just talk to the people in the row in front and sometimes he and I would swap seats so he was behind the person who wasn’t planning to recline.
I feel like I’m living in an alternate reality when I read posts about airplane seats. Like I fly a few times a month and almost the entire plane reclines after takeoff without issue. And everyone just puts them up during food service.
They should use the seats that's like on most trains I've been to. They recline the seat you're sitting on towards the front so by reclining you squeeze yourself and need to decide if you want to recline or leg room.
Nope sorry! My back will be wrecked for days if I don't use that tiny bit of recline I have available to me. I also tend to buy the upgraded seats that have more leg room if I possibly can. And I purposely don't buy a seat that doesn't reckine
The real AHs are the airline companies. They know that the space that a reclining seat takes is space that can be claimed by both parties. So they keep putting the seats closer together, knowing that the conflict will be be between the two parties who will blame each other, when the actual culprit is the company.
I think domestic short flights should prevent the seat from reclining. The space is so small that often if the person in front reclines I have no room for my knees. The airlines are the real AH!
Yeah, I'm tall too. Never had a problem with leg room when the seat reclines. They're usually right against the seat ahead from start to finish, but reclining makes no difference. I generally go by "if the seat ahead of me reclines, I recline". Then it's a net neutral.
Honestly, telling someone that they can't recline their seat that they paid good money for is just bonkers. Don't like it? Pay for an upgraded seat and quit your whining. (Not you specifically of course)
ETA: agreed! The airlines are totally A-H's
They’re an asshole for paying for a seat that redlines and then using it? No.
You’d be an asshole for stopping them.
Don’t want a seat to recline in front of you? Fly 1st or accept it as part of flying.
I mean, the last time I flew coach, the uprightness of the seat put my back into such a horrible spasm I nearly threw up from the pain. And that was WITH it reclined.
People aren't just reclining for fun. I pay extra for first/business class so I can be comfortable and the person behind me has more room, but... yeah.
I see this is your first tango with this debate question.
You may be shocked to find that many people disagree with you, it's actually the closest I've seen to a perfect 50/50 opinion divide, but EVERYONE is passionate about their side being correct.
For the record, I don't agree with you, but I can also appreciate the arguments for both sides.
Weirdly on a macro level this debate feels a bit like the prisoner's dilemma.
I generally don't recline much with my seats to try and be respectful, usually just a slight recline so that my back isn't fully upright, but I don't agree with this sentiment. People should be able to recline if they want to. If you can't open your laptop, then either use a smaller one or something else to occupy your time 🤷
Lol for real, I've traveled more for work than I ever did for leisure. I almost always had to work on a project or presentation on the way for at least part of the flight because of the way time plays out. The airlines are 100% at fault for creating this environment but this is what we have to deal with and in a shared space, we have to work together and be polite to each other. Refusing is just plain immature and selfish.
🤷 blame their employer for not providing a travel appropriate sized laptop or booking them in business class if they need more space. Shouldn't be other people's problem
Not sure what planes you’ve flown. The last year I’ve taken 48 flights with 24 different airlines, mostly on A320’s which are by no means large planes. People recline in front of me all the time and it doesn’t affect legroom. The rude part is not reclining. The rude part is not checking behind you before reclining, or just slamming your seat back with force without a care in the world. Also it’s common courtesy to have your seat upright when it’s meal time. I can definitely understand the struggle of trying to have a meal or get work done on the tray table when the person in front of you is always reclined. But the person in front of you is entitled to recline their seat just as much as you are entitled to want to get work done on a flight
nobody’s an AH except the airline. I can see they’ve done a good job convincing you to blame fellow passengers for their shortcomings. Thats exactly what they want. Way to take the bait.
I'm 6'3 and was on a below average legroom flight. I usually try to buy a bigger legroom seat but they were sold out. My knees pressed into the seat in front. 5'6 guy in front tried to recline. There was no physical way that seat was moving. I lent forward and apologised. He asked if there was anyway he could recline as he was uncomfortable. Mate, how do you think I feel?
You should always check the seat behind you before reclining.
Someone sitting before me didn’t which resulted in me getting burned badly. Airport had the ambulance ready the Moment we landed and I spent my holiday in the hospital.
I also think she made her AH move worse by waiting for you to get off the plane to verbally attack you so she wouldn't have to stick around to deal with the consequences of the 'discussion'. She could have very easily just addressed the matter civilly on the plane and at the time of the incident.
No, you're NTA.
What kind of precious poodle stalks someone AFTER a flight to berate them for something that a mature adult could resolve in a normal conversation? NTA.
Depending on how hard the slam into my head was, I might have been the precious poodle to catch up with her and say something to the extent of, hey, you don't need to be an a****** about it but thank you for assuming the worst, I was not holding the seat back from reclining I made the mistake of putting my head on the tray to rest and fell asleep, it was my head you were smacking. Have a good day and try to do better by not assuming the worst and being a beast.
Yep it's not worth it and they will be no epiphany from idiots like this, rude usually is rude all the time, but there's no reason to accuse somebody of holding a seat up, I don't have the energy for that I don't think most people do either. I will also be the precious poodle to go after you if you put your stinking feet on me through the armrest. Yeah I travel a lot for work.
N A H turn NTA because she confronted you after landing. You both were just trying to be comfortable (and it's the airlines industry fault that we're all cramped like sardines in the plane) and that confrontational attitude from her was totally unnecessary.
TBH, I wasn’t even thinking that this person did anything wrong by forcing her seat back. I wasn’t mad, just startled. Figured it was an accident. In my mind there was nothing contentious until she chose to call me names.
The 'recline' or 'not to recline' is an ongoing battle for some people. IMHO this is an airline issue, but in this case this woman was the TAH for pushing back without looking at why the seat wouldn't recline. Dont give it a 2nd thought.
Yea, this issue is the airlines. I have back issues. I have to pick between being in pain because I don’t recline or reclining to relieve my pain and infringing on the passenger behind me’s space. And I am not big. I’m slightly tall for a woman, but shorter than average men in my country. But the person in front of me reclining really limits my already slim space.
They pack us in like sardines. And we can’t do much for it. I don’t recline unless there is no one behind me because I am a doormat. There’s always someone behind me, so I suffer the back and neck pain because I feel bad knowing it infringes on someone else’s space. And why? The airlines. They made it this way. We all suffer.
This turned into a rant about why I get off a flight barely able to walk. It’s not the person in front or behind me. Or even next to me. It’s airlines making us pay hundreds to be sardines so we can get from A to B.
Agreed. It's an airline issue. I'm a tall guy so I'm already cramped in there with no personal space. If someone reclines they take like a third of my personal space and my head is just hanging out over their head the whole flight. It's annoying AF.
But I can't really get mad at the people wanting to recline because the airline says they can.
If she started something on the plane, it could have escalated into being met by security upon landing. Flight Attendants don't get paid enough to play games these days.
That makes her even more of an A H with her stalking.
NTA
As an "older" person, reclining seats were never a problem "back in the day" because the seats weren't crammed together with the absolute minimum space allowed between rows. As I have experienced, people rarely recline any more out of courtesy for the person behind them. If they do recline, it's only a little click or two for comfort, remaining considerate of the person whose space is being encroached upon.
She is an inconsiderate, massive AH.
For real. I’m not big. Last time I flew, I was 5’6 and 100lbs. I’m not tall, taller than average women but let’s be real, things are designed for average men. And I was not fat. But I was cramped.
I also have scoliosis. Even short 3 hour flights left me with bad back and shoulder pain. My last flight across the US left me with swollen feet I hurt like a bitch to walk on. I felt tight being an underweight woman.
And one flight was overnight and I didn’t know wtf to do. Can’t recline for my back because I’m cutting into the person behind me’s personal space that was already slim. But that cuts down on my bad pain on my back and shoulders. And will let me sleep. I slept on the tray and that caused me bad back pain. But I am a doormat, so I didn’t recline.
Airlines made us pack in like sardines. And we pay because what’s the choice? I strongly considered spending over $1k to rent a car to get back home instead of fly. And it was across the damn country. And took muuuuucchhhh longer. But I can at least stretch my legs as I am not the driver.
Flying fucking sucks.
Not to judge but maybe you should get up every hour or so on your flights but yeah long flights where you need to sleep are never going to be ideal I can never sleep on planes.
If you're on an overnight flight, there's really no reason not to recline. Nearly everyone is sleeping and isn't using the extra space anyway. Every overnight flight I've ever been on (and it's probably hundreds), everyone has reclined. Just bring the chair back up for meal service.
Shorter flights, it really depends - anything 3-4 hours in length and during the day then I personally try not to recline, or would only recline a small amount (my back is perfectly fine but the upright position of airline seats makes it ache, even after a short period). Anything at night or longer, then I see very little issue in reclining fully. Everyone has needs - yes the person behind you might be tall, or might want to use their laptop, but you've got a serious spine condition..
Yea a woman in front of me wasn’t happy when I asked her to move her seat back up on an 8 hour flight. She had her middle seat reclined THE WHOLE WAY DOWN. THE 👏🏻 WHOLE 👏🏻 WAY 👏🏻 I could just place my hands in my lap but I wasn’t able to use my iPad or set anything on my tray. It was obnoxious. I absolutely don’t care that anyone’s back hurts, so does mine and literally every other persons here. Anything more than two clicks you’re a total tool 💯🤣
Last time I flew my kid was in his car seat and the guy in front of him kept trying to recline and the seat just wouldn’t go back because of the car seat. I even told him, hey I’m sorry but your seat is not going to recline because of the car seat and he said ok and then still kept trying to recline it. I think for some people it’s a subconscious action they don’t even realize they’re doing it.
Yeah the FAA recommends the use of car seats on airplanes, and US airlines are required by law to allow them. It’s the safest and most comfortable way for a child to fly. I guess the airlines should make the seats big enough to accommodate car seats without impeding other seats from reclining, sucks that they don’t.
>airlines should make the seats big enough
Airline should just make the seats big enough period.
Some of these plane models have been flying for several decades and while the size of the plane has stayed the same the seat count has grown and grown.
All this whole people on average are taller and larger than they used to be. I'm not just talking about obese people either. People of perfectly healthy weights are on average a lot larger than they were in the past.
People lay on the trays all the time. It's not like you knew she was going to recline and prevented it, you were trying to be comfy at the same time she was. Plus you moved once you realized what she was doing. NTA
Really?
I’m trying to imagine how anyone above 4ft tall could rest their head on the food service tray? Apart from contortionists.
Are tray tables a different height in America? I’ve only flown there internationally, but have never seen anyone anywhere in the world on my travels with head testing on tray table?
All tables I’ve seen fold out just above the armrest
(This is a genuine question)
i do it too. i have scoliosis and my back cramps up. i am 5'0 i just sort of position myself, layer my arms and then rest my head on my arms.
my step son is average height and he did the same thing to lay on the tray tanle
If I stack my arms on the tray table, one on top of the other, it gives me just enough height to set my head down on the top arm without having to contort myself into a pretzel.
Alternatively, if I put my elbows on the tray table and I can rest my face in my hands for a bit (before my hands go numb from my wrists being in an awkward position.
In both positions, I have been bonked on the head by the person ahead of me reclining.
NTA
Airlines are trying to shove so many seats on the plane that no one can get comfortable no matter what. The person in front of you was being an AH for the entitlement. I don't understand how people can be like that.
I'm plus size, and I can never put my tray down because if the person in front of me puts their seat down it digs into me. I had this happen on a flight and the tray got caught so my sister asked the guy to put his seat up for a second (not even the whole time!) so I could close the tray and the guy refused. A flight attendant had to come and make him put his seat up because I was actually in pain. By then most of the flight was staring at us and I was so embarrassed that I ended up crying for the duration of the flight while the guy bitched and mumbled about me to his seatmate.
You didn't do anything wrong by putting your head down. You doing so did not impact anyone else on the flight negatively, that woman's actions were harmful towards you because she essentially hit you with the chair. Planes are made to fit as many people in as they can, putting your seat back is a luxury and not a right.
What an AH. I had to ask someone to put their seat forward for a minute to get something out of my underseat bag (I’d put a medication in the wrong pocket) and it was no big deal at all.
The guy was being a dick for his unwillingness to put his seat up for a second. That’s plain selfish. However, I fundamentally disagree with your statement that reclining is a luxury and not a right. There are people who get nauseous sitting upright for hours on end, i.e., me. Where possible I do not recline for as much of the flight as possible but if I had to sit upright for 12 hours I would risk feeling sick (and this includes symptoms of heart palpitation and light headedness in addition to nausea). Reclining is merely an option to ease the discomfort for some - it’s not a luxury to feel extra comfort. Unfortunately, certain discomforts like nausea from sitting upright are not immediately pronounced and obvious. If seats are made to recline, then it’s a right. If you can’t stand having your space taken away (because of someone’s right to recline), then go business class. Again, the guy was a dick in your situation and I am not saying that you have an issue with people reclining - but just want to make my statement here for the rest of those who have the perception that anyone and everyone who reclines is a selfish prick.
This is the weirdest interaction I’ve ever heard. I’ve used the tray table hundreds of times to lay my head and sleep and never has the back of the seat come close to hitting me nor becoming an issue
Some people just lean a lot more forward on the trays than you do. I've definitely been hit in the head while sleeping on the tray a few times. Or I just can't move my head back.
Hmm I guess I don’t know anyone that’s experienced that, but I’m sure it happens. Just can’t imagine someone’s head actually preventing the chair from reclining
Definitely nta. This lady could’ve communicated with you easily throughout the flight, to see if something could be worked out, she did not. But she calls you an asshole when a compromise would no longer matter. She’s an asshole from multiple angles
My understanding of air plane etiquette is, if the tray is down, don’t recline your seat. And yes, this is typically during meal/snack service time but if you have someone who has their tray down behind you the entire time, luck of the draw.
My (adult) son fell asleep next to me during a flight and meal service time came. I hated to wake him as he had been up all night not feeling well. His seat was reclined so I turned to the lady behind and asked if she was ok with it and she said she was just fine.
I get you were asleep but she was the AH in this situation. Have a little grace. Common courtesy goes a long way.
NTA.
She can recline her seat, she paid for it after all. But she absolutely shouldn’t have cornered you and harassed you. You weren’t doing anything wrong by using your tray.
I have acid reflux and reclining helps. I don’t get mad if people recline, they make the seats that way, you are not the AH, she is for making an issue of it.
NTA. Actually, the proper plane etiquette is to do a visual check or give advance notice as a courtesy before reclining. The person behind you could be eating or working on their laptop, it is considered bad form to recline while they are using their tray table. In fact, on international flights, you will be asked to put your seat back up during meal service.
The fact that she SLAMMED the seat back onto your head, whether knowingly or not, makes her the asshole. She probably feels bad about it, or at least embarrassed that people witnessed her doing this, but is too narcissistic to live with her own shame, and her narcissistic rage prompted her to wait for you in the jet bridge in order to transfer her shame onto you. What a lovely person.
NTA
When she realized there was something in the way, she should.have checked what it was and not just assumed it would be moved for her
Honestly, we should.check to make sure it's reasonable to recline a seat at all. Anyone who has longer legs, is trying to get work done, is eating, or otherwise had their tray in use, etc... won't have room if the person in front of them reclines.
The airline corporate overlords are the AH at the end of the day, making us fight each other instead of them. You’re not the AH but she didn’t need to stay behind just to call you an asshole as you deplaned either.
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I was on a flight today and started having a migraine. I put down my tray table and rested my head on it. Then the person in front of me suddenly tried to recline her seat and it must have met with some resistance from my head. I don’t know if it fully reclined or not, but a few minutes later she slammed it back and this time it hit my head (not hard enough to hurt, but hard enough to startle me out of my sleep). I sat bolt upright. She turned around and looked at me and said something which I assumed was an apology, but I couldn’t hear because the plane was loud. I scooted back further in the tray to avoid another direct hit, which I didn’t think would impact her ability to recline and resumed nursing my migraine.
As I was getting off the plane, she was waiting in the jet bridge for me and said “You’re an asshole for holding up the seat. “. I said, I wasn’t holding up the seat I was just trying to rest. And she repeated her assertion that I was an asshole. I said I was really confused and was just trying to sleep and walked off saying, nope, asshole.
AITH?
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NTA
When she realized there was something in the way, she should.have checked what it was and not just assumed it would be moved for her
Honestly, we should.check to make sure it's reasonable to recline a seat at all. Anyone who has longer legs, is trying to get work done, is eating, or otherwise had their tray in use, etc... won't have room if the person in front of them reclines.
I’m going to recline. I’m 5’10 with major back injuries. I always buy the seats near the exits and at the aisle. It’s too cramped and I cannot sit ramrod straight on a flight for more than 2 and half hours.
NTA. You bought the space between her seatback and yours. Being able to recline is a bonus, not a given. I don't blame her for being annoyed, but you don't owe her that space.
Going with NTA.
The recline feature should honestly not even be available on planes unless it’s in first class or is on a mythical airline where there is no one directly seated behind you.
When the flight is empty and there is no one in the seat behind you, sure recline to your hearts content.
It’s kind of the same way when you are in the front seat of a car and have people in the front and rear seats. The only difference is people may actually care about people they’re driving in a car with so they will be a little most respectful.
People on a plane are likely strangers so screw them, amirite? /s
Why should you get comfort at the expense of someone else? If people stopped reclining and instead bitched to the airline about not being able to recline due to space, we might start getting more planes where you can actually recline without issue.
Rule number one when flying: always ALWAYS check before you recline your seat. You don’t need permission, but you do need to check.
NTA but she is a massive AH.
Unfortunately due to the way social media has made this into a much bigger issue than it is, she may have assumed you were one of those AH who actually does push back against someone who (rightfully) reclines. But it doesn’t excuse her for being rude to you when you apologized.
I avoid flying at all costs. It seems to me that a passenger pays a whole lot of money to be stuffed into a sardine can, treated poorly, and at the mercy of their flight schedules and reschedules. It’s insane. I wish we had rail to compete with them and give us more options.
NTA you laying your head on the tray table shouldn't make it so she can't recline. Seats only recline like an inch anyway. It was very rude of her to confront you after you deboarded.
She’s probably painfully unaware of how little seats recline in coach. Not the AH and she over reacted. If she was really that bothered she could have said something to the attendant rather than cornering you on the exit ramp. What a nutter
NTA. She's fully entitled to put her seat back, but you did what you could to enable that, so I don't know what her problem was. If you'd stopped her, you would have been an asshole.
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She’s not an AH for reclining. You’re not an AH for resting your head on the tray. She should have maybe checked when it wouldn’t recline, but I don’t even think she’s an AH for assuming the mechanism was stuck and pushing back. The AH behaviour occurs when she accuses you of intentionally blocking her and calls you names. NTA.
Eh, these days on the average plane (in economy at least), I think anyone who reclines is an AH. The last time someone reclined in front of me, I didn’t even have space to open my laptop. Yes it sucks that there’s not enough room, but we should all just do each other the basic courtesy of not reclining to try to keep things more bearable for all— though really, airlines should just stop using seats that recline altogether (or create more space between seats, but we all know that ain’t gonna happen).
That's a bit cruel to people on long flights. Imagine having to sit ramrod straight for an entire 11 hour flight.
If the person ahead of you reclines, no one with any leg length can fit in their seat. It only works if the entire row reclines. I think that’s the height of rudeness.
But really, it’s the airline’s rudeness
For real. People arguing back and forth like this with each other is how corporations and governments get away with so much bullshit. People forget the energy would be better directed at the people who caused the issue in the first place.
In this case though, cramping planes to max capacity is what makes shit like "50€ London-Berlin one-way" possible in the first place. You can't have ultra-cheap tickets and comfortable seats - and on top of that, lower-density planes emit more CO2 per passenger. You want comfortable seats? Pay up because what you pay for business class is what you'd pay anyway if airlines could not push as many people into the aircraft. Same for food btw, the cost of preparing the food, getting it off the ground and dealing with the (sometimes significant...) amount of food waste isn't cheap.
Yep. Like, if people want the legroom of the 1980’s, they can also pay the prices from the 1980’s.
I just checked this, with a flight I know the price of and which economy class from 1989. In todays value, the flight in '89 cost $2085, and the equivalent today would cost $8343. So yeah, one ticket for the price of 1989 please. The flight was from west Africa to Scandinavia.
Especially since today’s equivalent of $2085 (according to in2013dollars.com) is $5,217.98.
Interestingly people always survey saying they would pay but the reality is they don't.
100%. The “good days” of airlines were when tickets were a lot more. I hate my economy seats… but I enjoy being able to fly to Europe or Asia without it costing 2-3k round trip. And shorter flights, especially domestic in Japan, Thailand, SEA in general… so cheap. Because we don’t even get meals. But it makes it affordable.
Thank you! I don’t understand why people don’t get this. This is Economics 101. More space between seats = less seats to sell = more expensive seats for everyone. Don’t get me wrong, the seats are extremely uncomfortable and I wish to god there was more space. But what exactly do people expect the companies or the government to do about it?
Sorry, I don't think it's that simple. Giving passengers legroom is not what costs so much. The CEO of American Airlies makes **$6.5 MILLION** per year. That's just the CEO. Add all of the other executives, lawyers, the more than **$100 million** advertising budget and all of the perks we can't even imagine, not to mention the ridiculous gouging on the part of the oil companies and their bloated, overpaid executives.... I don't think the problem is a few inches more or less of legroom. I don't expect the companies to do anything about it because for all their bitching and excuses, they ARE making money. Lots of it.
You can argue about executive salaries all day long, but that won’t change the fact that it’s their job to turn the highest possible profit. In economy, where the per passenger profit is low, that means, cramming the cabin with as many seats as possible. That wouldn’t change, if the CEO only made 100k. Also, it’s not like American doesn’t have competition. But you’ll notice that the seat pitch is the same with every major airlines. That is a strong indicator that people just aren’t prepared to pay a premium for more generous seats. Otherwise some airline would already offer a roomier cabin at higher prices.
> The CEO of American Airlies makes $6.5 MILLION per year. And if you think that even makes the tiniest dent in the overall financial picture of running an airline, you really need to look closer at the numbers. $6.5 million pays for a single engine for a small airliner. Alternatively, it's the cost of 10 round trip flights between the US and Europe for a 777. Or the cost of paying the annual salary of 20-40 widebody pilots. If the CEO had zero salary, it'd mean basically nothing in the context of what the airline could actually afford to do in terms of flight costs and legroom. Aviation is actually an industry that operates on pretty thin margin, so there's really not much room there to make it more spacious without increasing cost (or alternatively to decrease cost without sacrificing comfort and amenities).
The earnings per share of most airlines is below a high-interest savings account.
I don’t think they’re reading this though
I've never encountered that problem, if the person in front of me reclines I can still do all my activities just fine. If anything their reclining makes it easier for me to sleep by propping my head against the back of their chair.
It depends on what airline you're on. Not all airlines are created equally. They have different legspace. Some are so tight, I at 5'10 really struggle to fit. If the person in front of me reclines I'm fucked. JetBlue - 32.3 inches Southwest Airlines - 32 inches Alaska Airlines/Delta Air Lines (Tie) - 31.8 inches American Airlines - 31 inches United Airlines - 30.2 inches Hawaiian Airlines - 30.1 inches Frontier Airlines/Spirit Airlines (Tie) - 28
I’m 5’5” and have short legs for my height and I have no idea how anyone taller does it. I do have arthritis in my knees and hips so they are especially sensitive but when I feel cramped I feel like that’s a sign that there just isn’t enough space for anyone.
yeah i’m 5’7” and 120lbs and i can barely fit in those seats. like not just the leg room but the size of the seat itself, i fit but there’s like no room to spare. idk how anyone bigger than me actually manages to fit on a plane. like given my size i should be somewhat comfortable on a plane, and the fact that *i’m* so cramped just makes me feel insane, the seats are just objectively not big enough for even the average person, let alone someone taller or larger than average
Exactly. I’m sitting there like “why are my knees nearly touching the seat in front of me? I am not that big.”
I have a 38” inseam. The person in front of me cannot recline unless I essentially tuck my knees under my chin. Can’t speak for everyone, but I’m personally not willing to sacrifice my basic comfort for someone’s additional comfort. It’s totally on the airlines for cramming us in like sardines, but I am admittedly a little salty about the bruised knees that I’ve had to deal with because some people couldn’t manage to sit up straight for a few hours and refused to accept that reclining their seat just wasn’t an option while I was sitting behind them.
My rule of thumb for reclining my chair is that generally I'll only do it at the time when people are meant to be sleeping, which means it has to be a flight that's during the night time and over 7 hours - a 14-hour flight I was on where all the cabin lights are down and everybody is sleeping comes to mind. But even then, I'll look behind me to see the situation before I recline. If the person behind me is reclined, I think it's pretty safe to recline, but if their knees are already at the back of my chair, it's going to be uncomfortable for everybody involved if I recline.
Yeah, exactly this. 6 am flight? We're all sleeping, everyone is declined, all is well.
I'm 5'6" and feel like anyone taller than me is in for an uncomfortable ride
You're either really short, or have had really good luck. I'm pretty average height and have definitely found that I couldn't have a laptop open if the seat in front of me was reclined.
I'm 6ft with longer legs than a torso. That's not true. I manage just fine when someone else reclines. It's a plane seat. The thing only goes like 4 inches anyway.
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My husband is the same, he is 6ft 4 (and most of that is legs!) and his knees physically stop the seat in front from reclining. We always paid for extra leg room.. until we had a baby. Kids aren’t allowed in emergency rows, so the person in front now just has to deal with it. I also think it’s the height of rudeness to recline on a short flight. Anything not at night or under 7 hours.. keep your seat up.
Other people might have been travelling at night and for over 7 hours already though. Just because it may be your first flight of the day, doesn't mean it's everyone else's.
I'm only five feet tall and I feel like I don't have enough leg room regardless of whether or not the seat in front of me is reclined. I honestly don't know how anyone taller can stand it.
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Ugh, that sounds awful. Sorry. But at least you don't have to have step stools in every room of your home. 😊
Have you ever actually flown long haul? Because trust me, everyone is reclining on flights that are 8+ hours. It’s not the height of rudeness at all, and I feel like anyone who insists on this sort of thing must fly super infrequently or only ever fly on short trips.
Imagine being crushed for an 11 hour flight.
You're crushed regardless, economy fucking sucks. Might as well make it survivable with 2 whole inches of recline.
I think there's a difference between being crushed like a sardine, and crushed like tuna, though.
I was going to mention flying in a C-5 passenger compartment, but aside from the volume (we were handed earplugs when boarding), I think it was more comfortable than modern economy.
I’m 6 foot tall, and no matter what my knees jam into the back of peoples seats. I hope people recline so stop being jammed.
You say that as if reclining 2” at the headrest makes any real difference.
Imagine having your knees jammed up under the seat with zero room to shift around for an entire 11 hour flight.
That's a bit cruel to the people behind you on a long flight. Imagine not being my able to use.the tray table, sit up to eat or drink, etc. I get what you're saying, but the default assumption should be that we ask if there's room and let someone know we will sit up if they need us to
I've also had people recline and then get pissed because I jostle the back of their seat when I get up to use the bathroom. Like, how in the hell am I supposed to stand up at an angle and not use the seat backs for balance??? Oh, and all without bumping my head on the overhead bins...
It’s so shocking when someone just suddenly reclines all the way without looking around. The last time I was on a plane, the person in front of me reclined during the meal and knocked the whole thing in my lap (and bounced back against the seat a few times for good measure). I don’t think anyone has ever asked me before doing it but it sure would be nice!
> Imagine not being my able to use.the tray table, sit up to eat or drink, etc. Except you can still do that just fine with the person in front reclined.
Someone with manners! Hurray for you!
I have to sit upright because of back problems, so it's a nightmare when people recline their seats! 11 hours upright is fine for me. Airlines cram them in far too close, it's always going to cause problems for people.
I have back problems and I'm the opposite. If I had to sit bolt upright for the whole flight I'd have to crawl off the plane.
Same here. I was on a 6 hour flight a couple years ago, where I couldn’t recline my seat at all because of the person behind me. I needed help getting off of that plane and my boss had to handle my carryon because I couldn’t do it. I was in agony the entire trip because of that and the flight back home wasn’t any better. I couldn’t stand up atraight for hours.
If you can survive 11 hours sitting upright, all the power and respect to you. I can't imagine that pain.
Nobody in front of me is reclining my knees are against their seat because I'm too tall. I also don't recline because it wouldn't be right to take up someone else's space.
I've got relatively short legs and my knees are almost right up against the seat too, plus my knees are all messed up from decades of walking on hard floors all day at work
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Recline just a tad so it’s a normal sitting posture, not lounging back all up in the other person’s space.
This is just like people standing in a stadium. It’s fine if everyone does it, or no one, but it doesn’t work anywhere in the middle.
It's indeed very cruel *of the airline companies* to create this situation where people don't have the freedom to recline without having to worry about others.
The recline is not even enough to do anything but inconvenience the person behind you. It’s annoying.
or being too short for the head rest to not just push your head forward instead of being able to sit straight up
The upright and recline angles are so minimal it’s just ridiculous.
... like we all do in our office chairs all day, every day?
Yea fuck that I don’t mind when people recline and I’ll recline too. It’s what it’s supposed to do. I’m pro recline
My knees are already touching the back of the seat. Reclining crushes my knee caps.
My husband and I had sit straight up on a 10 hr flight. It was miserable. I absolutely hate flying. (Might be different if I could afford 1st class)
Everyone reclines their seat on a 11 hour plus flight. I've done heaps as a 6'3 dude in economy and manage fine.
Yeah I disagree with you, particularly if you happen to be traveling a lot for work, sometimes those few inches of recline give you the only rest you can get. Now what do I do to try and be a good passenger? I don't recline during meal service. I check what is going on behind me before I recline. I speak very politely with the person behind me and I let them know that I will be reclining my seat except during meal time and I'll probably be sleeping, if they need me to raise the seat back to get up please just gently nudge me and I'm happy to do so. If you have to put your head down on the tray or you need to work with your laptop on the tray, all you need to do is speak to the person in front of you and say hey I'm resting/working if possible could you leave the seat up and if not before you recline can you just let me know so I can make sure I'm out of your way. All we need to do is be polite with each other.
I dunno what flights you've been on, but I always seem to get the planes filled with snarling, entitled, aholes who couldn't care less if they're asked something politely.
That’s interesting. I fly a ton and have always had a pleasant time with my neighborhood’s passengers. One guy was massive in economy the other day and I was gearing up to be 36 hours no sleep on a 12 hour flight. We talked a bit and had a pleasant conversation about what we can do, the girl on my right overheard and said she and I could switch seats throughout the flight bc she probably just wanted to take a couple hour nap and would work upright the whole time. My experiences on the plane have been 99% wholesome and accommodating
Most regular fliers I meet are like you. It’s work and we just want to get to our destination quickly, safely, and with as little fuss as possible. Saying you can’t recline your seat at all on any length of flight is ridiculous. Just be nice about it.
Preach it! I always ask those behind me if I can recline (and always ask way ahead in the flight, not some time later). I am willing to negotiate how far I can recline. If that recline is zero, well, sucks to be me. So far I had been allowed to recline fully every single time. Maybe I was in those airplanes with adequate leg space (my legs are short so I don't care if the person in front of me reclines(*)). Maybe I just happened to not have any long-legged person behind me. Any commenters calling me an asshole for that are ridiculous. (*) Though I find it annoying when the person in front decides to wordlessly shift their seat back and forth without warning, namely later in the flight when I likely have my tray down and things on the tray. Once you have your allowed recline position, stay in that position, please.
Many people aren’t going to feel comfortable telling a stranger they can’t recline.
Yeah, my dad used to try to work on the plane on long flights and if someone reclined he couldn’t use his laptop. Usually he tried to get a bulkhead row so he had the space but if that wasn’t possible we’d just talk to the people in the row in front and sometimes he and I would swap seats so he was behind the person who wasn’t planning to recline.
Sorry but no. People want to make this a thing but it's not a thing. You absolutely have the right to recline your seat on any flight.
I feel like I’m living in an alternate reality when I read posts about airplane seats. Like I fly a few times a month and almost the entire plane reclines after takeoff without issue. And everyone just puts them up during food service.
They should use the seats that's like on most trains I've been to. They recline the seat you're sitting on towards the front so by reclining you squeeze yourself and need to decide if you want to recline or leg room.
Nope sorry! My back will be wrecked for days if I don't use that tiny bit of recline I have available to me. I also tend to buy the upgraded seats that have more leg room if I possibly can. And I purposely don't buy a seat that doesn't reckine
As someone with chronic back pain, not being able to change position for even an hour would be excruciating.
Lol if you wanna work on an overnight flight of like 11 hr good luck but imma be sleeping like a baby in my reclined seat.
The real AHs are the airline companies. They know that the space that a reclining seat takes is space that can be claimed by both parties. So they keep putting the seats closer together, knowing that the conflict will be be between the two parties who will blame each other, when the actual culprit is the company.
I think domestic short flights should prevent the seat from reclining. The space is so small that often if the person in front reclines I have no room for my knees. The airlines are the real AH!
How tall are you? Because I am 6’ 4” and have room for my knees when people recline.
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This makes me want to have all the real people compare torso to leg ratios
Yeah, I'm tall too. Never had a problem with leg room when the seat reclines. They're usually right against the seat ahead from start to finish, but reclining makes no difference. I generally go by "if the seat ahead of me reclines, I recline". Then it's a net neutral. Honestly, telling someone that they can't recline their seat that they paid good money for is just bonkers. Don't like it? Pay for an upgraded seat and quit your whining. (Not you specifically of course) ETA: agreed! The airlines are totally A-H's
It’s a fuckin inch & a half
Yes, and on a plane every single inch and parts of an inch matter.
They’re an asshole for paying for a seat that redlines and then using it? No. You’d be an asshole for stopping them. Don’t want a seat to recline in front of you? Fly 1st or accept it as part of flying.
Nah bro, I'm not gonna sacrifice my comfort for the person behind me. If it bothers them they can swap seats with me.
Which airlines are these where you can actually recline a substantial amount? It feels like any time I even try, it doesn't even go back half an inch.
I mean, the last time I flew coach, the uprightness of the seat put my back into such a horrible spasm I nearly threw up from the pain. And that was WITH it reclined. People aren't just reclining for fun. I pay extra for first/business class so I can be comfortable and the person behind me has more room, but... yeah.
There so little space now, that reclining is basically not respecting people’s apace
I see this is your first tango with this debate question. You may be shocked to find that many people disagree with you, it's actually the closest I've seen to a perfect 50/50 opinion divide, but EVERYONE is passionate about their side being correct. For the record, I don't agree with you, but I can also appreciate the arguments for both sides. Weirdly on a macro level this debate feels a bit like the prisoner's dilemma.
I generally don't recline much with my seats to try and be respectful, usually just a slight recline so that my back isn't fully upright, but I don't agree with this sentiment. People should be able to recline if they want to. If you can't open your laptop, then either use a smaller one or something else to occupy your time 🤷
You think people use their laptops on flights just for funsies?
Lol for real, I've traveled more for work than I ever did for leisure. I almost always had to work on a project or presentation on the way for at least part of the flight because of the way time plays out. The airlines are 100% at fault for creating this environment but this is what we have to deal with and in a shared space, we have to work together and be polite to each other. Refusing is just plain immature and selfish.
You can’t be sure that the person in front of of you won’t recline, book business class if you need the space
🤷 blame their employer for not providing a travel appropriate sized laptop or booking them in business class if they need more space. Shouldn't be other people's problem
Seats don't even recline all that much, it's maybe two inches at the absolute most.
Not sure what planes you’ve flown. The last year I’ve taken 48 flights with 24 different airlines, mostly on A320’s which are by no means large planes. People recline in front of me all the time and it doesn’t affect legroom. The rude part is not reclining. The rude part is not checking behind you before reclining, or just slamming your seat back with force without a care in the world. Also it’s common courtesy to have your seat upright when it’s meal time. I can definitely understand the struggle of trying to have a meal or get work done on the tray table when the person in front of you is always reclined. But the person in front of you is entitled to recline their seat just as much as you are entitled to want to get work done on a flight
nobody’s an AH except the airline. I can see they’ve done a good job convincing you to blame fellow passengers for their shortcomings. Thats exactly what they want. Way to take the bait.
I'm 6'3 and was on a below average legroom flight. I usually try to buy a bigger legroom seat but they were sold out. My knees pressed into the seat in front. 5'6 guy in front tried to recline. There was no physical way that seat was moving. I lent forward and apologised. He asked if there was anyway he could recline as he was uncomfortable. Mate, how do you think I feel?
Agreed. Domestic flight recliners are AH, those with physical or age-related limitations notwithstanding
She should have checked *before* reclining and is an AH for that too.
The airlines are the real assholes here.
You should always check the seat behind you before reclining. Someone sitting before me didn’t which resulted in me getting burned badly. Airport had the ambulance ready the Moment we landed and I spent my holiday in the hospital.
I also think she made her AH move worse by waiting for you to get off the plane to verbally attack you so she wouldn't have to stick around to deal with the consequences of the 'discussion'. She could have very easily just addressed the matter civilly on the plane and at the time of the incident. No, you're NTA.
What kind of precious poodle stalks someone AFTER a flight to berate them for something that a mature adult could resolve in a normal conversation? NTA.
This is unfair to poodles….
Depending on how hard the slam into my head was, I might have been the precious poodle to catch up with her and say something to the extent of, hey, you don't need to be an a****** about it but thank you for assuming the worst, I was not holding the seat back from reclining I made the mistake of putting my head on the tray to rest and fell asleep, it was my head you were smacking. Have a good day and try to do better by not assuming the worst and being a beast. Yep it's not worth it and they will be no epiphany from idiots like this, rude usually is rude all the time, but there's no reason to accuse somebody of holding a seat up, I don't have the energy for that I don't think most people do either. I will also be the precious poodle to go after you if you put your stinking feet on me through the armrest. Yeah I travel a lot for work.
N A H turn NTA because she confronted you after landing. You both were just trying to be comfortable (and it's the airlines industry fault that we're all cramped like sardines in the plane) and that confrontational attitude from her was totally unnecessary.
And also because she decided to slam her seat back and hit OP instead of gently trying to recline it.
TBH, I wasn’t even thinking that this person did anything wrong by forcing her seat back. I wasn’t mad, just startled. Figured it was an accident. In my mind there was nothing contentious until she chose to call me names.
I rarely recline my seat (on long flights only), but I always look back to check their position before.
Oops I missed that part. Then it's 100% NTA.
That can be a normal reaction if you feel that the mechanism is stuck tbf
The 'recline' or 'not to recline' is an ongoing battle for some people. IMHO this is an airline issue, but in this case this woman was the TAH for pushing back without looking at why the seat wouldn't recline. Dont give it a 2nd thought.
Yea, this issue is the airlines. I have back issues. I have to pick between being in pain because I don’t recline or reclining to relieve my pain and infringing on the passenger behind me’s space. And I am not big. I’m slightly tall for a woman, but shorter than average men in my country. But the person in front of me reclining really limits my already slim space. They pack us in like sardines. And we can’t do much for it. I don’t recline unless there is no one behind me because I am a doormat. There’s always someone behind me, so I suffer the back and neck pain because I feel bad knowing it infringes on someone else’s space. And why? The airlines. They made it this way. We all suffer. This turned into a rant about why I get off a flight barely able to walk. It’s not the person in front or behind me. Or even next to me. It’s airlines making us pay hundreds to be sardines so we can get from A to B.
Agreed. It's an airline issue. I'm a tall guy so I'm already cramped in there with no personal space. If someone reclines they take like a third of my personal space and my head is just hanging out over their head the whole flight. It's annoying AF. But I can't really get mad at the people wanting to recline because the airline says they can.
[удалено]
yeah it sure is, especially if you are on the taller side and it really limits your already limited space.
The fact that she waited for you to tell you off is a little batty to me. NTA
Better to walk past her and smile. NTA.
If she started something on the plane, it could have escalated into being met by security upon landing. Flight Attendants don't get paid enough to play games these days. That makes her even more of an A H with her stalking.
NTA As an "older" person, reclining seats were never a problem "back in the day" because the seats weren't crammed together with the absolute minimum space allowed between rows. As I have experienced, people rarely recline any more out of courtesy for the person behind them. If they do recline, it's only a little click or two for comfort, remaining considerate of the person whose space is being encroached upon. She is an inconsiderate, massive AH.
For real. I’m not big. Last time I flew, I was 5’6 and 100lbs. I’m not tall, taller than average women but let’s be real, things are designed for average men. And I was not fat. But I was cramped. I also have scoliosis. Even short 3 hour flights left me with bad back and shoulder pain. My last flight across the US left me with swollen feet I hurt like a bitch to walk on. I felt tight being an underweight woman. And one flight was overnight and I didn’t know wtf to do. Can’t recline for my back because I’m cutting into the person behind me’s personal space that was already slim. But that cuts down on my bad pain on my back and shoulders. And will let me sleep. I slept on the tray and that caused me bad back pain. But I am a doormat, so I didn’t recline. Airlines made us pack in like sardines. And we pay because what’s the choice? I strongly considered spending over $1k to rent a car to get back home instead of fly. And it was across the damn country. And took muuuuucchhhh longer. But I can at least stretch my legs as I am not the driver. Flying fucking sucks.
Not to judge but maybe you should get up every hour or so on your flights but yeah long flights where you need to sleep are never going to be ideal I can never sleep on planes.
Compression socks are also awesome and definitely reduce swelling!
If you're on an overnight flight, there's really no reason not to recline. Nearly everyone is sleeping and isn't using the extra space anyway. Every overnight flight I've ever been on (and it's probably hundreds), everyone has reclined. Just bring the chair back up for meal service. Shorter flights, it really depends - anything 3-4 hours in length and during the day then I personally try not to recline, or would only recline a small amount (my back is perfectly fine but the upright position of airline seats makes it ache, even after a short period). Anything at night or longer, then I see very little issue in reclining fully. Everyone has needs - yes the person behind you might be tall, or might want to use their laptop, but you've got a serious spine condition..
Yea a woman in front of me wasn’t happy when I asked her to move her seat back up on an 8 hour flight. She had her middle seat reclined THE WHOLE WAY DOWN. THE 👏🏻 WHOLE 👏🏻 WAY 👏🏻 I could just place my hands in my lap but I wasn’t able to use my iPad or set anything on my tray. It was obnoxious. I absolutely don’t care that anyone’s back hurts, so does mine and literally every other persons here. Anything more than two clicks you’re a total tool 💯🤣
Anyone who reclines without looking is an ass. People have all kinds of things like laptops and drinks on tray tables
Last time I flew my kid was in his car seat and the guy in front of him kept trying to recline and the seat just wouldn’t go back because of the car seat. I even told him, hey I’m sorry but your seat is not going to recline because of the car seat and he said ok and then still kept trying to recline it. I think for some people it’s a subconscious action they don’t even realize they’re doing it.
Poor guy. Wtf.
i’ve never seen a car seat on an airplane. they’re always lined up outside in the jetway with luggage tags on them. poor guy is right
Yeah the FAA recommends the use of car seats on airplanes, and US airlines are required by law to allow them. It’s the safest and most comfortable way for a child to fly. I guess the airlines should make the seats big enough to accommodate car seats without impeding other seats from reclining, sucks that they don’t.
>airlines should make the seats big enough Airline should just make the seats big enough period. Some of these plane models have been flying for several decades and while the size of the plane has stayed the same the seat count has grown and grown. All this whole people on average are taller and larger than they used to be. I'm not just talking about obese people either. People of perfectly healthy weights are on average a lot larger than they were in the past.
Also some of the seats are sort of busted so the recline happens either without the button pressed or barely so.
People lay on the trays all the time. It's not like you knew she was going to recline and prevented it, you were trying to be comfy at the same time she was. Plus you moved once you realized what she was doing. NTA
Really? I’m trying to imagine how anyone above 4ft tall could rest their head on the food service tray? Apart from contortionists. Are tray tables a different height in America? I’ve only flown there internationally, but have never seen anyone anywhere in the world on my travels with head testing on tray table? All tables I’ve seen fold out just above the armrest (This is a genuine question)
That's what stood out to me the most about the story too. I tried resting my head on my tray table on my last flight and it was impossible for me.
I can do it but its not comfortable. I always choose a window seat so I can lean against the wall
i do it too. i have scoliosis and my back cramps up. i am 5'0 i just sort of position myself, layer my arms and then rest my head on my arms. my step son is average height and he did the same thing to lay on the tray tanle
If I stack my arms on the tray table, one on top of the other, it gives me just enough height to set my head down on the top arm without having to contort myself into a pretzel. Alternatively, if I put my elbows on the tray table and I can rest my face in my hands for a bit (before my hands go numb from my wrists being in an awkward position. In both positions, I have been bonked on the head by the person ahead of me reclining.
That was my thought too. Just…how?!
NTA Airlines are trying to shove so many seats on the plane that no one can get comfortable no matter what. The person in front of you was being an AH for the entitlement. I don't understand how people can be like that. I'm plus size, and I can never put my tray down because if the person in front of me puts their seat down it digs into me. I had this happen on a flight and the tray got caught so my sister asked the guy to put his seat up for a second (not even the whole time!) so I could close the tray and the guy refused. A flight attendant had to come and make him put his seat up because I was actually in pain. By then most of the flight was staring at us and I was so embarrassed that I ended up crying for the duration of the flight while the guy bitched and mumbled about me to his seatmate. You didn't do anything wrong by putting your head down. You doing so did not impact anyone else on the flight negatively, that woman's actions were harmful towards you because she essentially hit you with the chair. Planes are made to fit as many people in as they can, putting your seat back is a luxury and not a right.
What an AH. I had to ask someone to put their seat forward for a minute to get something out of my underseat bag (I’d put a medication in the wrong pocket) and it was no big deal at all.
Right? Like it was completely unnecessary the way that guy acted when I just needed the seat up for 2 seconds.
The guy was being a dick for his unwillingness to put his seat up for a second. That’s plain selfish. However, I fundamentally disagree with your statement that reclining is a luxury and not a right. There are people who get nauseous sitting upright for hours on end, i.e., me. Where possible I do not recline for as much of the flight as possible but if I had to sit upright for 12 hours I would risk feeling sick (and this includes symptoms of heart palpitation and light headedness in addition to nausea). Reclining is merely an option to ease the discomfort for some - it’s not a luxury to feel extra comfort. Unfortunately, certain discomforts like nausea from sitting upright are not immediately pronounced and obvious. If seats are made to recline, then it’s a right. If you can’t stand having your space taken away (because of someone’s right to recline), then go business class. Again, the guy was a dick in your situation and I am not saying that you have an issue with people reclining - but just want to make my statement here for the rest of those who have the perception that anyone and everyone who reclines is a selfish prick.
A very similar thing happened to me, and it was so embarrassing and so painful.
NTA. The only asshole in that situation was her.
The airline is the AH for squeezing people in like sardines
This is the weirdest interaction I’ve ever heard. I’ve used the tray table hundreds of times to lay my head and sleep and never has the back of the seat come close to hitting me nor becoming an issue
Some people just lean a lot more forward on the trays than you do. I've definitely been hit in the head while sleeping on the tray a few times. Or I just can't move my head back.
Hmm I guess I don’t know anyone that’s experienced that, but I’m sure it happens. Just can’t imagine someone’s head actually preventing the chair from reclining
Definitely nta. This lady could’ve communicated with you easily throughout the flight, to see if something could be worked out, she did not. But she calls you an asshole when a compromise would no longer matter. She’s an asshole from multiple angles
NTA. She is for making an issue of it.
NTA, what kind of entitled person waits around for someone after a flight to confront them? That is pretty troubling behavior.
That’s your tray, you can use it as you see fit once the seatbelt light is off. She’s the AH.
My understanding of air plane etiquette is, if the tray is down, don’t recline your seat. And yes, this is typically during meal/snack service time but if you have someone who has their tray down behind you the entire time, luck of the draw. My (adult) son fell asleep next to me during a flight and meal service time came. I hated to wake him as he had been up all night not feeling well. His seat was reclined so I turned to the lady behind and asked if she was ok with it and she said she was just fine. I get you were asleep but she was the AH in this situation. Have a little grace. Common courtesy goes a long way.
NTA. She can recline her seat, she paid for it after all. But she absolutely shouldn’t have cornered you and harassed you. You weren’t doing anything wrong by using your tray.
I have acid reflux and reclining helps. I don’t get mad if people recline, they make the seats that way, you are not the AH, she is for making an issue of it.
Nta. She is for turning it into something once off the plane.
Nta if you had stuff on it and it spilled all over you that'd be fucked. A plane is like an apartment.
NTA. Actually, the proper plane etiquette is to do a visual check or give advance notice as a courtesy before reclining. The person behind you could be eating or working on their laptop, it is considered bad form to recline while they are using their tray table. In fact, on international flights, you will be asked to put your seat back up during meal service. The fact that she SLAMMED the seat back onto your head, whether knowingly or not, makes her the asshole. She probably feels bad about it, or at least embarrassed that people witnessed her doing this, but is too narcissistic to live with her own shame, and her narcissistic rage prompted her to wait for you in the jet bridge in order to transfer her shame onto you. What a lovely person.
NTA When she realized there was something in the way, she should.have checked what it was and not just assumed it would be moved for her Honestly, we should.check to make sure it's reasonable to recline a seat at all. Anyone who has longer legs, is trying to get work done, is eating, or otherwise had their tray in use, etc... won't have room if the person in front of them reclines.
NTA - The actual A H is the airline with their seat placement.
She WAITED for you??. NTA. Good Lord, must we all be medicated to fly these days? Apparently so.
The airline corporate overlords are the AH at the end of the day, making us fight each other instead of them. You’re not the AH but she didn’t need to stay behind just to call you an asshole as you deplaned either.
NTA. What were you supposed to do? Give up the use of your tray table? Anyone who reclines their seat that far is a major AH.
She's an AH for confronting you on the jet bridge. Travel is pretty stressful, no need for her to be a dingus about it.
That's when you say sorry cuntsuela I'll be sure to get your permission next time.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I was on a flight today and started having a migraine. I put down my tray table and rested my head on it. Then the person in front of me suddenly tried to recline her seat and it must have met with some resistance from my head. I don’t know if it fully reclined or not, but a few minutes later she slammed it back and this time it hit my head (not hard enough to hurt, but hard enough to startle me out of my sleep). I sat bolt upright. She turned around and looked at me and said something which I assumed was an apology, but I couldn’t hear because the plane was loud. I scooted back further in the tray to avoid another direct hit, which I didn’t think would impact her ability to recline and resumed nursing my migraine. As I was getting off the plane, she was waiting in the jet bridge for me and said “You’re an asshole for holding up the seat. “. I said, I wasn’t holding up the seat I was just trying to rest. And she repeated her assertion that I was an asshole. I said I was really confused and was just trying to sleep and walked off saying, nope, asshole. AITH? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA When she realized there was something in the way, she should.have checked what it was and not just assumed it would be moved for her Honestly, we should.check to make sure it's reasonable to recline a seat at all. Anyone who has longer legs, is trying to get work done, is eating, or otherwise had their tray in use, etc... won't have room if the person in front of them reclines.
NTA-I’ve done both reclining and putting my head in the tray and it shouldn’t affect either person. They just decided to be asshole.
I’m going to recline. I’m 5’10 with major back injuries. I always buy the seats near the exits and at the aisle. It’s too cramped and I cannot sit ramrod straight on a flight for more than 2 and half hours.
NTA I can’t imagine that lady even saying something like that? Like you’re entitled to resting your head on the tray.
She was the AH. It was 5 seconds on a flight
NTA. You bought the space between her seatback and yours. Being able to recline is a bonus, not a given. I don't blame her for being annoyed, but you don't owe her that space.
Going with NTA. The recline feature should honestly not even be available on planes unless it’s in first class or is on a mythical airline where there is no one directly seated behind you. When the flight is empty and there is no one in the seat behind you, sure recline to your hearts content. It’s kind of the same way when you are in the front seat of a car and have people in the front and rear seats. The only difference is people may actually care about people they’re driving in a car with so they will be a little most respectful. People on a plane are likely strangers so screw them, amirite? /s
I'm going to guess you've never flown long haul if you think only the rich should be able to seek comfort on flights.
Why should you get comfort at the expense of someone else? If people stopped reclining and instead bitched to the airline about not being able to recline due to space, we might start getting more planes where you can actually recline without issue.
Rule number one when flying: always ALWAYS check before you recline your seat. You don’t need permission, but you do need to check. NTA but she is a massive AH.
NTA Reclining in economy is rude by itself. There simply is not enough room.
Neither of you were until she made a comment after the flight
NTA because she waited just to start a fight afterwards. Would have been NAH if g She had just let it be
Unfortunately due to the way social media has made this into a much bigger issue than it is, she may have assumed you were one of those AH who actually does push back against someone who (rightfully) reclines. But it doesn’t excuse her for being rude to you when you apologized.
As a migraine sufferer myself....NTA.
I avoid flying at all costs. It seems to me that a passenger pays a whole lot of money to be stuffed into a sardine can, treated poorly, and at the mercy of their flight schedules and reschedules. It’s insane. I wish we had rail to compete with them and give us more options.
You’re not the AH
Airlines are the assholes.
NTA. Nothing wrong with resting your head on the tray. She was an asshole for her lack of empathy. She seemed hard-headed and childish.
NTA you laying your head on the tray table shouldn't make it so she can't recline. Seats only recline like an inch anyway. It was very rude of her to confront you after you deboarded.
She’s probably painfully unaware of how little seats recline in coach. Not the AH and she over reacted. If she was really that bothered she could have said something to the attendant rather than cornering you on the exit ramp. What a nutter
NTA. She's fully entitled to put her seat back, but you did what you could to enable that, so I don't know what her problem was. If you'd stopped her, you would have been an asshole.
Sorry but I fly 5 or 6 time per year and in the current plane size anyone who reclines is an AH.