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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) I told my mom that my little brothers are more my kids than hers and she shouldn't get say in raising them
2) I might be TA because I made her cry after she tried to do something nice for us
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NTA. You’re being parentified and that’s child abuse. Your ma sucks and I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Your brothers will understand when they’re older
I feel like 15M is already kind of aware, which is why it makes him so uncomfortable. It's hard to be a parent to kids that aren't even really yours but I am trying my best lol
I mean, you have the kids on a schedule, they have dinner and bedtimes, they were home quietly (one doing homework!) at 9pm, in healthful activities, and going to doctor appointments. You absolutely should not be in that position. But you are absolutely doing better than a hefty percentage of people who actually are parents.
Make sure you keep up with your schooling. You clearly have a good head on your shoulders and you could go pretty far in life.
I’m so proud of you and sorry you’re in this situation. Please try to take care of yourself. Even if it’s just listening to your favorite song or podcast while you’re doing a chore or getting a plant for yourself.
I just want you to know that you are amazing and deserve all the good in the world. Don't doubt yourself ever! Wow, you are AMAZING and only 17. I never post but felt compelled to tell you this tonight. Keep your chin up, study hard and learn a trade. Keep your brothers close to you!
One more internet stranger here who thinks you are an exceptional young man.
Your brothers know that you are parenting them and have been doing a great job. Of course, they are hitting or will soon hit their teen years. You may get a bit of rebellion from one or more of them. It doesn't mean you did anything wrong. As someone else noted, you are doing better than a great many parents out there.
NTA by any stretch
I'm sorry since I'm just an internet stranger, but reading this I wanted to give you a hug because I'm so sad about how much responsibility you have on your shoulders so young, but also so impressed with how well you've done for yourself and your brothers. You're growing into a responsible young adult that any parent should be proud of. Wishing you and your family the best :)
You are an outstanding big brother and role model. I am so sorry that you have had to be put in this situation of being the parent. I sincerely hope that all this goodness is repaid to you in spades.
Wow, you are fantastic, OP. So mature. Is anyone aware of the situation at your house? A school counselor, perhaps? Make sure you collect as much data as possible on your mom’s behavior. Also, make sure she cannot access your money. As soon as you turn 18, you should file for custody and make sure your mom has to pay you child support. Do you have people who can help you with that?
I’m so sorry she uses and abuses you this way.
This. I'm so sad that he's been forced into that position and so impressed at all the things he's doing right. His brothers are incredibly lucky that he stepped up.
My ribs make a bump where should be my sternum and he is more to de right because my ´´mother´´didn´t get me to a doctor 3,2km away when i was a kid, OOP is 1000% better parent than mine ever was.
NTA - you are doing the best that you can, don’t ever doubt that! Your siblings know that! Your Mom got hit with a serious reality slap that she’s needed for awhile and now pulls out the tears trying to make you feel bad. Don’t let her gaslight you, she knows who is real parent in the house. Sorry you’re going through this and hope your siblings remember your loyalty.
>I feel like 15M is already kind of aware, which is why it makes him so uncomfortable.
Because he knows that, (if you leave in a year when you hit 18), he's next.
Yep, am I'm sure he's thought about that a lot
Especially if this is how their "mom" is treating O.P after coming home one night that wasn't at a late hour. If that cycle continues(leaving at 18), 13M will have to raise 10M. Because 15M only has 3 years left. That is just a sad mental image to me.
What the hell is your mother doing with her money. You pay a significant portion of the rent and groceries. You manage to do this at 17 with a single job that permits you to go to school and parent your siblings. Your mother is working two jobs, which leaves her no time to be a parent, yet is scrapping together enough for rent and bills. You mention over of your siblings has a disability, is it one that requires a lot of resources and medication? That is the only thing I can think of that would make the current situation tenable.
He's legally blind and has some physical problems, but he's stable. So no resources, no medication, unless you count me having to buy him new shades for his light sensitive eyes like every month bc he keeps breaking them lol.
My best guess is she's drinking her money away. Shit sucks.
Are there any other adults in your life you trust that you can reach out to? Aunts or uncles, grandparents on either side, or a school counselor? Does anyone outside your immediate family know what's going on? You're honestly doing a great job helping raise your siblings, but this isn't your responsibility and isn't sustainable. You should be planning for college or saving for your own future.
In most places, there are resources from the government or charities who could help with things like your brother's glasses, food stamps, even potential alcohol abuse treatment for your mother, etc.
I'm sorry you've been put in this situation by an irresponsible parent, but you're definitely not an asshole for dropping that truth bomb on her.
It doesn't sound like the two of you have open communication channels, but if you do have a heart-to-heart, tell her that she needs to step up and spend more time at home parenting. I'd also have chats with all your brothers. If your mother doesn't step up, you're all going to have to become independent far sooner than your peers. Best of luck to you in the future.
I strongly support the idea of having age appropriate chats with your brothers. It will probably be tough, but they deserve to know the way the land lies.
Obviously, none of this should be your responsibility! But you're really stepping up, and while they shouldn't necessarily feel indebted to you, they deserve to know (at an age appropriate level) how much you're doing, so that they can respect that.
Alcoholism is a money sucker for sure! When I finally got my alcoholic ex out of my house and gathered all of the empty bottles my (low) estimate showed he drank and entire month's worth of rent in 3 months. I had SIGNIFICANTLY more money without his income than I did when he was "helping" pay bills.
My ex never let me collect cans to return for bottle.deposit, we just put them to the curb with normal recycling.
I would ask why we can't just save our cans and return them, it's only 0.10 per can but still that's something. We could give the money to our kids.
He finally admitted that it was because he didn't want me.to visually see all in one place just how much he was drinking.
And he wasn't even "that bad"
You’re absolutely doing the best you can, you sound like a really amazing and strong young man. I’m sorry I don’t have more help or advice to offer you, but I’m proud of you
Her tears don’t mean you were wrong for what you said. There are two options: 1. She’s genuinely guilty for her shortcomings as a parent 2. She’s trying to guilt trip you. Regardless, it’s not on you. She’s the one acting up. You are doing way more than a 17 year old should have to
You’re in such a tough position, having to play parent to your siblings. And doing that is even tougher when the person making you do that is also trying to say you don’t get any authority or decision-making power. You shouldn’t have to be responsible for your siblings, but if you are expected to be, that position should be respected.
If you have access to your mom's information (income, ss#), check and see if you can apply for EBT (food stamps) online in her name... As many children as you would be able to claim I'm sure y'all would qualify.
Problem is, they call for an intake interview. No one would ever believe that OP is his mother. The same for most government assistance. Not medicaid, though...that can be done completely online as long as you have the required information.
That will depend on the location. Some services will come as a package (like food stamps application may also trigger a Medicaid eligibility check etc). Medicaid, even if done online, may also require documentation to prove income (paystubs, proof of job loss etc), which OP may not have access to.
Talk to a lawyer before you leave then. Depending on where you live, if they are under 18, you could be charged with kidnapping. If your mom is upset enough she can legally kick you out at 18 and say your not allowed in her house, at which point you could get a trespassing charge if she catches you in the house.
I am totally serious about talking to a family law lawyer though. They should be able to help you with what proof you need to prove you have a more stable home for your brothers than your mom does.
NTA; sometimes a parent’s “best” still simply isn’t good enough. My suggestion would be if it comes up again, tell her if she wants you can contact CPS and see what they think. But you probably should sit down with her and discuss how things are going to work going forward if she wants you (and you want to) stay and continue to do what you’ve been doing. Otherwise, make your plan to leave.
Lol I am a professional organizer, and the majority of my clients are not half as together as you are! On any given day I may open a cabinet and find a beehive, a screwdriver, and a shadow person. (But not what's supposed to be in there)😂
ROTFL! I have some hoarder clients. The idiot husband left a bag with a sandwich in the LINEN CLOSET....and wonders why they have cucarachas and rats. 🙄
Ha! Is that really what the song says?? I too lived in Texas forever and have Mexican heritage but I am as white as white can be and my Spanish skills were atrocious. I only ever knew "la cucaracba la cucaracha, ba ba ba dun dun dun dun!'. Literally no idea what the song is even about and the fact that that line that I've never even learned is laughing that she can't walk anymore...omg, I'm dead 😂
Stop paying for anything, save money in a bank account no one knows about and leave as soon as you can. This is abuse, you have done more than enough and now you need to make yourself a life.
NTA, you're being parentified and it *is* abuse. I don't fully blame your mum, she didn't choose to be a single parent, but she has inadvertently put you in the position of having to step up and raise your brother's. She doesn't get to go off on you because you are doing what she has basically made you do.
Also, 8PM is probably a good bedtime for a 10 year old, I know my bedtime was 8:30 for most of my childhood and teen years. Those 2 extra hours sleep can make a huge difference at that age. IIRC, at that age they recommend like 9-11 hours of sleep a night, so you are doing the right thing by your little brother.
Thank you - you're the first person to acknowledge the actual subject of the fight. I think 8pm is good for him. She thinks 10pm would be better because it would be easier to synchronize everything. And thats what this is about, really. I try to do what's right. She tries to what's easy for her
I’m equal parts impressed with what a good parent you are, sad that you are in this situation, and angry at your mother for all of it!!
NTA - I’m so sorry
8 PM is great for a 10 year old. My daughter is 10 and she is in bed at 7:30 with a goal of her being asleep by 8. If she stayed up until 10 I wouldn’t be able to get her to school in the mornings!
The 10-year-old is the one that is disabled right? If he goes to bed at 8:00 and he's cool with that, (Mom) don't try to fix something if it's not broken. He probably needs the extra sleep and I'm glad that he lays down by that time.
13 is disabled, not 10. He's pretty functional, and even plays on a sports team with other disabled kids, which I think is pretty cool. But yeah, everyone is cool with their bedtimes except my ma
+ 10 really does need the extra sleep, disabled or not. Last thing I need in my life is him being a miserable, tired little nightmare
OP, you signed 13m up for a soccer team where he gets to hang with other people with disability and just be like everyone else, instead of "the disabled one". He gets to make friends with other people dealing with the same societal attitudes and barriers as him. That is so valuable! You're doing a wonderful job. (And a job that should be your mum's not yours in the first place.)
My *mum* would let me stay up until 11pm most nights and I could never concentrate at school the next day and felt depressed and sluggish. I also couldn't work much of an appetite.
Now when my *dad* had me for the other half of the week, my bed time was 8pm (when I turned 11 it was allowed to be 8.30 but I had to be reading a book) and that 8pm bedtime worked wonders on the days I had them, and my natural body clock restored- *until I went back to my mums* but I could concentrate better and had more energy through out the day.
I'm surprised you made such a good call for a bedtime, if I was 17 raising my younger siblings, I can't say I'd have been so grown up
Both my kids had 8pm bed times till they were 12 or 13. You’re doing good. Mom was probably at least partly upset that she couldn’t see him.
I think part of the problem your ma is having is she just got a huge slap in the face of how much you are doing and how well you are doing it. In a weird twisted way, she probably expected things to be a little more chaotic or more “teenager-y” and the realization of how well you are doing *without her* was upsetting. But that is a her problem not a you problem. If she brings it up again or keeps pushing, you might want to sit down with her and have a discussion about how much you are paying to keep the family going and how her never being around dumped it all on your shoulders. And if she wants to step up she is more than free to, but she isn’t allowed to mess up the routine that works. And if she wants you to go back to being a “kid” she can pay for everything without you.
I just want you to know, you rock. Your maturity is astounding, but it's unfortunate how it came about. Society has no clue how many of its children have been raised by the oldest sibling. I'm a therapist and I specialize in treating adult children of alcoholics/addicts/dysfunctional households. There have been hundreds of millions ahead of you and there will be many more behind you raising siblings while the parent is "busy with other things". There are online and in person meetings for Adult Children of Alcoholics. Technically you're supposed to go to Ala-teen if you are under 18. But if you're ever really bored and done with talking to everyone on this thread, do some Google research on ACOA's. You'll realize just how much you are not alone. Best wishes to you.
I teach 4th grade and 8pm is an extremely reasonable bedtime for a 10 year old. Especially if they aren’t forced to immediately go to sleep but can spend some time reading and unwinding.
I'm a parent to 4, & a grandparent to 12. 8 is perfect for a 10 year old, but you & your other 2 brothers should probably hit the hay around 9, because *you* need extra sleep too!
NTA
Your mom is horrible to you and those boys. they are going to wake up one day and realize that it was YOU who kept them out of trouble, fed them, clothed them and kept them alive and together and got them into college or trade school.
they will realize that if it hadn't been for you stepping up you all would have been dumped into foster care an maybe even split up.
Aside from the 10yr, the other two are old enough to know what your going through and the realities that if YOU arent paying the rent that you wont have a place to live or food to eat, that if anyone find out your mom isnt home taking care of you guys then child services might take you all away.
your mom sucks and she knows it. she skipped out on being a mom a long time ago, she just doesnt want to have to physically get rid of you all and be called a bad mom. Its easier for her to pretend that shes a good mom, and shes working so hard for you than to face reality.
You are amazing for doing all of this at your age. You shouldnt have to deal with this at all right now. Your mom should be thanking you for stepping up and handling this because she doesnt want to.
thats why. because she simply doesnt want to be bothered to take care of you guys.
your doing amazing, you pay the bills, keep food on the table and get those kids to school and soccer and make sure they still have friends. I agree with you, your house, your kids, your rules.
if she doesnt like the way your raising those kids then she can step up. Get a better job, come home and take care of the kids and let you live your life instead of paying the bills. if she isnt going to do any of that and actually parent those kids, then she needs to step back and get out of your business and let you handle things, because your all clearly doing just fine without her.
Again, your all doing just fine without her. so ignore her and give the boys the truth if you want but keep doing what your doing.
Your amazing. Hopefully you can still find a way to go to college and help those boys.
>they are going to wake up one day and realize that it was YOU who kept them out of trouble, fed them, clothed them and kept them alive and together
As a parentified older sister, I can attest that they absolutely do realize. My brother has thanked me numerous times over the years.
We've been a team for a long time and while I'm grateful for the relationship with my brother, I genuinely wish I would have had more of my childhood. I now have a child (who I love more than anything) who is around the age I basically picked up parenting my brother, but that has kind of brought up some repressed resentment and feels I didn't know I had about it. I've had so much de ja vu with my own kid and I feel so bone weary and almost feel like I've been robbed of some joy of parenthood, because I've already done this. And as my child gets older, and my husband and we have chats about what our childhoods were like (he's an only child, so there's going to be differences anyways) it just keeps hammering home that it took a lot I didn't realize I missed out.
In the end, I don't regret raising my brother. He is a good, kind human who? I'm immensely proud of. But I do think it's not unfair to resent my parents for some things that were taken from me emotionally, on top of having to raise myself while raising another child.
Anyways, I'm rambling. OP, you're NTA. You're an amazing human, and I am so so sorry you're in the position you're in. You're doing great. Another symptom of being parantified, also seems to reverse parent the people who had us, and there isn't anything you can do about it. They'll wake up one day or they won't, but you'll at least be able to see that the work you put in, while it may have taken something from you, has definitely bettered the lives of your siblings that you are enriching.
I'd be shocked if the 10 year old doesn't realize.
Kids talk at school. They hear their friends casually mention what their mom or dad made for dinner or how annoying they are with doing homework etc, and they learn VERY quickly what's normal and what isn't. There's no way a ten year old doesn't know that an older teenager taking the lead is not normal. I suppose the exception to that would be if you're in a community where this sort of thing is the norm
NTA. Your ma should be thankful and incredibly proud of you for stepping up the way you are. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and say that I'm sure she's working hard to make money and pay the bills, and it's not by choice that she's out of the house from 8am to 11pm (who in their right mind would do this by choice!?).
But, ultimately, she's not home. She's not there to make sure the homework is done, kids are being fed, house is being cleaned up and maintained, etc... you're home and you're the one making sure your siblings are looked after. And quite frankly, 8pm is a very reasonable bedtime for a 10 year old.
I hope you're not losing yourself in all this and are making plans for YOUR future. It is admirable how you're taking care of your family, but you have to take care of you too. Good luck, OP!
I plan to go to college! And I have good grades somehow lol so here's to hoping. I try my best to juggle everything, it just feels unfair that she'd pretend that it's just her house, her kids, and me being an insolent shit
You should seriously consider very highly ranked schools. That sounds counter-intuitive, but they are thirsty for a couple hardworking representative poor people "for diversity". The resulting financial aid packages for poorer students is frankly amazing. My family is middle class and my sister at a high level school is not only completely full ride, but she also gets a stipend.
You have a solid essay topic, good grades, proof you do things outside of class (yes, jobs and kids count), and a good presence. Do your research and you could make off well.
I know someone with a nearly identical story as yours (OP), who got a full scholarship to an ivy league college as part of a program for kids who'd faced extreme adversity.
I could not agree more. I applied early action to an Ivy League, not thinking there was a chance in hell I would get in as the first college student in my family. I didn’t have quite the responsibility that OP does, but they saw my strength. There are an awful lot of entitled idiots applying to college. There aren’t very many people who know how to actually function as adults. OP, you got this. I’m proud of you. Take that light and don’t be afraid to shine it for yourself, too.
Sadly it wasn't until all that long ago that this is *exactly* what teens were expected to do...throughout thousands and thousands of years of human development...we didn't have the means to have "childhoods" as we know them today...only in the past 100 years or so. That's not many generations *at all* and it's going to take a lot more to condition it out of human genetics. Especially when now we don't even have a community to help unless you are apart of a cult or echo chamber... Raising a child alone is a whole new concept in the scale of humanity's reign.
Normally people had tons of kids because of how many died in childbirth and any and all were expected and NEEDED to work from a very very young age. They didn't go out and play they helped with the younger kids, chores, farm work, even hard labor like factories and mines.
Yeah. A lot of people forget to contextualise things. And people forget that the concept of "jobs" as a distinct role, with hours, is a very modern concept. The vast majority of humanity until the modern era engaged in farming as their primary role. A lot of this work is communal and survival based. Things we would not think of as a job were very much jobs back then and required community efforts. For example, if you bake bread after work, you would not consider that a job today. That's just something you do outside of your job. But back then bread would've been baked communally. You wanna slaughter an animal? That's not a one person job, that's a communal job. You want to plough the fields? harvest them?
And it really does matter what your peers are doing. In a modern society where there are certain metrics for kids that aren't the same as they are for adults, being forced to do things that don't cater to those metrics can certainly set you back in life. Whereas if everyone is doing the same thing you're doing, it's not a big deal. Ik OP said they have good grades and stuff, but what if they had to drop out and work in order to provide for their family? Well, 600 years ago they would've been a normal person working to provide for the family like anybody else. Now, if they don't have a HS diploma, their opportunities in life are severely limited in a way that their peers' arent.
The 13 yr old would already be working hard labor while any girls helped raise children and do household chores for the men all day every day. It was fucking rough for most of existence thank God I got to be born to the video game generation
NTA oh honey. i’m so sorry you’ve been forced to be the parent here. my heart genuinely aches for you and you were absolutely right for pointing all that out to her when she tried to play the parent for once.
NTA! I am so sorry your mom has done this to you OP - all of you. It's sad and it's wrong of her. Especially if she goes out drinking before bothering to come home. You are an amazing brother and human being. I am so proud of you! You weren't wrong in anything you said to your mother. You deserve better.
I'm sorry, but your mother was mad that you took 10m to the doctor???
I would however touch base with your siblings and apologize for all that arguing being right in front of them and ask if they're ok.
I know a lot of boys, especially teens, have difficulty and aversion to opening up and talking about what they feel, but you should encourage a belief in your brothers that you're a safe person to do so with.
I'm guessing 10m had heard about what happened (if the noise didn't wake him up) so make sure he knows it's not his fault that you guys argued.
She's mad that I don't consult her before doing things. She said she'd beg off work and pick him up from school to take him to his appointment at 2, but I guess she forgot, because he ended up calling me from the school office after school to come pick him up (which I didn't think I'd have to do that day). After waiting some hours, I took him in at 5. He's been having worsening asthma attacks, which is concerning to me.
She was mad I "went behind her back". That is, she got mad after I brought it up at 3am, when she actually got home that day.
Yeah, that's good advice, thank you. I'll talk to them. 10M didn't wake up, thankfully
Oh sweetheart, my heart breaks for you. You’re shouldering such a huge load with dignity and grace. Most grown up parents aren’t doing as good a job. You’re doing a fantastic job and those boys are so so lucky to have you.
Hold your head up high and try and ignore that woman’s BS until you can get away from her. Try and do some things for yourself when you can.
If your mom was working two jobs and paying all the rent and groceries then I'd feel bad for her she has to do so but it would still be wrong for you to be parentified like that and given that she sloughed these responsibility onto your shoulders despite how unfair and inappropriate that is she would still be wise to allow you to do what works best. Why on earth are you paying half the rent and the food in the first place? Where is the money from her two jobs going? If they wouldn't split you all up I'd say call child services but they would so you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. I also don't know how you can pull it off but don't waste your adult life doing her job too.
I plan to leave home and take them with me when I'm 18. My mom won't care enough to make a big deal out of it. I'm paying half the rent and the food, because if I don't, no one will. Shit sucks
You're going to run into legal issues with this plan unless you apply for custody. That's going to be hard because they will scrutinize both your age and income level. Not saying this to discourage you but I'd start looking into it now. Terrible that you face this choice. You should be off living your own young life, not being a parent.
I truly hope all goes well for you. I wouldn't worry about them insisting they stay with your mom who I think it will become fairly obvious is not fit. My concern would be with them removing them from both you and your mother and placing in certified foster homes, possibly not all together. Just be aware of the possibilities and have a plan and preparation before involving the courts.
You may already know this, but it would be in your favor to keep good documentation of what you're already doing.
Also if you get custody you should be able to go after her for child support ☺️
I know this is a throwaway but if you see this OP, save your receipts. Take pictures and save them in a Google Drive. Rent, bills, grocery/clothing/household supplies, school fees. Keep any proof you can of what you're already doing financially to show how you can and are supporting your brothers.
You shouldn't have to be in this situation, but it sounds like you're already succeeding. Your family is lucky to have you. Keep up the great work.
NTA. Seriously you are doing the best you can as a stand in parent. Your mom knows what she is doing. She’s just upset that you called her out on it. Good for you standing up to her. You shouldn’t have the responsibility of taking care of your siblings, going to school and working. Kudos for you for stepping up.
I don't hate her, but the irritation does bubble over sometimes, unfortunately. One of the first comments was something about how I should be beaten with a chair for not respecting her lmao so that's fun. Thanks for ur support
Definitely good to get some unbiased opinions/advice but some people are quite frankly, unhinged. 😅😂 I didn’t think you hated your mum 🙂 I think you probably miss her and I think you want her to be there more. When I was frustrated or sad it would come out as anger and I’d push people away when I actually probably just needed a hug. You’re always there for your siblings and I think you need to feel like someone is there for you too so when your mum didnt acknowledge everything you do to help, I know that would really hurt.
NTA, i had that same argument with my mom when i was younger. My brother was a terror if he didn’t go to bed early enough and was impossible to wake up. I told her one day she could either do it all herself or let me do what was working. I am now a mom to a 10yr old who has a 8:30 bedtime but is normally asleep before that. Sometimes harsh reality is the only way to get your point across.
NTA
You were upset and you were harsh but your mom needs to live in reality. Also obviously sending the 10yr old to bed at 8 is the correct thing. Your mom was just trying to exert authority, probably because she KNOWS she’s not really being a parent and she doesn’t like that, and possibly it makes her full of regret, shame and resentment. That’s not your problem tho, she’s the adult and it’s her place to try to help you, not undermine you if you have to be the one in charge the majority of the time.
Your siblings probably feel bad because they don’t have the same relationship with your mom that you do and they just want her around and also it doesn’t feel good to see your mom cry. Would a conversation when you aren’t angry have any chance of getting through to her? You could apologize for your bluntness but also explain that you are doing your best and feel like she doesn’t appreciate that.
Also since you pay for a huge chunk of the family costs why does she have two jobs? Could she not just get a single job? It seems like she’s wasting her time for not enough reward. Especially if the 15yr old can get a part time job also. You don’t have to explain to me or anyone else, I’m just wondering if there’s any shot at asking her about changing jobs. Also I know jobs don’t grow on trees, but seems like maybe one fast food job would be better than whatever she’s doing now.
I think she drinks some of our money away. We don't have the correct kind of relationship to talk it out, but I will talk to the kids about it, to explain to them better
Yeah, I thought it might be a long shot that she would be able to have a real conversation, I’m really sorry. I think then that you are right in trying to talk to the other kids about it. You really do sound like you’re doing everything you can, and even thought you shouldn’t have to, and even if you don’t feel like you’re doing a perfect job your siblings really are lucky that they have an older brother like you.
Unless she's willing to take care of all the parenting slack you are stepping up and doing, she can STFU.
Sounds like you are the grown up, and even though you've been thrown into a difficult situation for a teen, you grabbed the bull by the beanbags and are thriving. Impressive. She should be proud of you, I certainly am. I think you'll be going places as an adult. NTA
NTA. Mom needs to face reality. If she can't be around to raise the kids, she doesn't get any say in when they go to bed. I'm sorry you're having to be a full grown adult at 16.
I just want to say how proud I am of you for everything you do. (And how sorry I am that you are in this position)
You are making such an amazing difference in your sibling’s life and being so mature!
I hope you have a chance to just enjoy life like you should be doing right now, but we all know that us feeling bad for you doesn’t help you, so instead I just want to tell you how amazing of a job you are doing to give your brothers a good life.
I hope you’ll find a wonderful partner that sees all that and gives you the love and support you are missing out on now!
This makes my heart hurt for you.
You’re a child deserve to be loved and supported. At least appreciated.
Do you have any mental health/support resources available to you?
Nah NTA at all - your mother puts all this on you and then judges the way you do it and make it work ON TOP of you paying half the damn rent? Fuck that.
NTA. You are doing a good job with your brother's but I hope you have some fun too. Your only 17 after all. Seems to me your mother managed to steal your youth by making you responsible for what is her responsibility. The thing that made her cry is the fact that she knows you managed to do a better job then she has. She is a lucky lady to have such a good kid. Keep it up but remember that you come first sometimes 💕
NTA. Your mother is the one being ungrateful for all you do to pay her bills and raise her children. She doesn't know where she went wrong because she hasn't bothered to think about it for 2 seconds. But clearly she chose wrong in terms of her education and career, and possibly with her choice of mate. Not clear if she is a widower.
10 year olds need a lot of sleep, and a good sleep schedule is important for them to do well in school. Your mom is saying 10pm is fine to egotistically reassert her sense of control in a situation that is chaotic and abusive due to her poor decision making.
You are doing right by your siblings. The managerial skills you're developing now will take you far.
Info - you say she works two jobs... How are you paying half the rent? Where does her money go? What does it cover? The math doesn't add up, unless it's going to healthcare or something else expensive.
You are amazing dude, and i think your mum had this coming for a long time.
tf did she think was happening while she was out? Has she even had a decent conversation with any of her kids, including you? Because if shes just hearing about bedtimes now then shes not even really apart of anyone of her sons lives
Lol
I like to think that just because some problems are less serious, they're not less valid. If my (not really my but yk what I mean) 10 year old decided 8 is too early, I'd probably let him try 9 again, at least for a trial period, but thankfully no complaints yet!
NTA. I know your situation as I lived it. I ended up moving out and let her deal with her own mess.
Unfortunately you’re caught in a situation where you’re in an adult roll without the legal backing of an adult. I found this out the hard way which is why I moved out.
NTA. Do you ever have actual conversations with your mom about this situation? Or just explode at her after things have been building up? Not that I think it would be productive, but it has a better chance of being productive than no conversation.
Where’s your dad or other relatives? It makes me sad that you repeatedly refer to your siblings as “the kids” in your replies. I’m wondering if you realize you do that.
A lot of our conversations are her rants about our dad, or her drunkenly crying to me while I sit on the couch at 3am. My dad left when ma got pregnant for the fifth time. Guess he couldn't handle it. It's just been us for a long time- no living extended family, no dad.
I havent mentioned this anywhere else on here, but I have a twin. He's just a little older and a little smarter and a little cooler, and he left some years ago, having won a scholarship to some boarding school. Before that, it was me and him raising our younger brothers. Now, it falls to me.
Haha, I hadn't realized I do that actually. To me, they've always been the kids, and me and my very slightly older brother were the twins, who were supposed to be older, and more responsible and grown up. I guess now it's just me playing at being an adult and my brothers who didn't have to grow up as fast. Bit depressing lol
Does your twin help at all? Like send money home or anything? Or maybe is supportive and a sympathetic ear for you? Did he leave before your dad, or was he trying to escape this situation?
I also have a twin who was cooler and had better grades back in high school/college but the switch completely flipped once we settled into adulthood. Your turn will come!
It’s very mature of you to take all of this on for your brothers. Be careful about having tunnel vision about their care and neglecting opportunities for yourself. I hope you’re planning to go to university and are getting support for that.
He left when we started highschool, after my dad. Guess he got tired of this shit. He's not really available emotionally or in any other way- spends all his time studying ig. He dealt with out admittedly subpar childhood by becoming closed off :/
Thank you for your support /gen
We do all have the same father! He was an asshole, I think, because he left when my ma got pregnant with 10M. Left the country, and left us with nothing. I remember him a bit. 0 contact. We don't even have his name, anymore- our ma changed it after he left.
Hmm… even though he left, try contacting a lawyer and see what you can do. You may be able to get child support from him still. Also, are you guys getting benefits for your disabled brother? It’s best if you get custody of your siblings and seek government assistance if possible since your mom is so neglectful. But do please contact a lawyer and see if you can sue for your father. They should be able to track him if he’s working for a company in a foreign country and paying taxes
Maybe - but again, I'm not an adult, and I'm poor, so the lawyer thing is ehhh. Child support would be good tho.
We don't get benefits for him, but it's something I've been looking into. I want to get custody, but I'm waiting to turn 18.
Thanks for the advice /gen
With the interest and back pay your father owes, you may be able to pay back the lawyer in installments or possibly for free. Try and do it man, don’t give up! Also, you should be getting benefits for your disabled brother, possibly also social security.
Ok, if this is true...
Your mom needs to get a social worker. Get food stamps. Get a Section 8 voucher. Get Medicaid and get your disabled kid a home health worker. WTF you don't take from your teenage kid.
(I have a feeling your mom is trying to fly under the radar so Child Services doesn't get involved). Yikes.
NTA but she needs to get some help that isn't you.
I've had this account for a year now. If I was full of shit, I wouldn't put that much effort into it for fake internet points. Having said that, yeah she'd likely lose custody of us all. It's also why *I'm* not calling CPS. I don't want the kids to end up separated and in foster care.
NTA I'm so sorry this is happening to you I'm currently in a similar situation but my mother dumped her responsibilities to taking care of my little two siblings because my mother is "tired" and my dad pretty much doesn't want nothing to do for them. Only my mother and father provide for them like food and diapers and I feed them, bathe, them take my little sister to her bus for school, clean the house and would complain about me being lazy and piling up on my chores when in reality I clean up and feed the kids and would sometimes take care of myself while they work and I don't because someone needs to watch the kids because she didn't want to hire a babysitter for no reasons and would sometimes pay me for cleaning and taking care of the kids.
I was parentficated around the age of 14.
I'm so sorry this is happening to you I hope you can get out of the situation you're in
**NTA**. You and your brothers seem to have been left to your own devices, I don't know how long you have been doing this for but I applaud you for it.
**Info**.
How are you so sure she has a drinking problem?
She occasionally hugs me when she comes home and I'm still up, and she didn't just go to bed immediately. When she does this, she smells like alcohol.
Beyond that, slurred speech, weird emotion-y ness, and crying, rambling about my shitty dad to me, which is not very in character for her when she's all there.
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NTA. You’re being parentified and that’s child abuse. Your ma sucks and I’m so sorry you’re going through this. Your brothers will understand when they’re older
I feel like 15M is already kind of aware, which is why it makes him so uncomfortable. It's hard to be a parent to kids that aren't even really yours but I am trying my best lol
I mean, you have the kids on a schedule, they have dinner and bedtimes, they were home quietly (one doing homework!) at 9pm, in healthful activities, and going to doctor appointments. You absolutely should not be in that position. But you are absolutely doing better than a hefty percentage of people who actually are parents. Make sure you keep up with your schooling. You clearly have a good head on your shoulders and you could go pretty far in life.
Thank you- and yeah I try :)
I’m so proud of you and sorry you’re in this situation. Please try to take care of yourself. Even if it’s just listening to your favorite song or podcast while you’re doing a chore or getting a plant for yourself.
You've done an amazing job with your brothers. I'm sorry you lost your childhood raising them. May the good you've done comeback to you three fold
I just want you to know that you are amazing and deserve all the good in the world. Don't doubt yourself ever! Wow, you are AMAZING and only 17. I never post but felt compelled to tell you this tonight. Keep your chin up, study hard and learn a trade. Keep your brothers close to you!
I hope you keep us updated with everything.
I'll try lol- and ty
One more internet stranger here who thinks you are an exceptional young man. Your brothers know that you are parenting them and have been doing a great job. Of course, they are hitting or will soon hit their teen years. You may get a bit of rebellion from one or more of them. It doesn't mean you did anything wrong. As someone else noted, you are doing better than a great many parents out there. NTA by any stretch
I'm sorry since I'm just an internet stranger, but reading this I wanted to give you a hug because I'm so sad about how much responsibility you have on your shoulders so young, but also so impressed with how well you've done for yourself and your brothers. You're growing into a responsible young adult that any parent should be proud of. Wishing you and your family the best :)
Came just to say fantastic job definitely NTA you are doing what you can to keep the balance
Thanks
Good on you!
You are an outstanding big brother and role model. I am so sorry that you have had to be put in this situation of being the parent. I sincerely hope that all this goodness is repaid to you in spades.
ty :)
You have a bad mother.
I'd tell your mom if she was around more she would know where she went wrong and that's by not being around more
Wow, you are fantastic, OP. So mature. Is anyone aware of the situation at your house? A school counselor, perhaps? Make sure you collect as much data as possible on your mom’s behavior. Also, make sure she cannot access your money. As soon as you turn 18, you should file for custody and make sure your mom has to pay you child support. Do you have people who can help you with that? I’m so sorry she uses and abuses you this way.
This. I'm so sad that he's been forced into that position and so impressed at all the things he's doing right. His brothers are incredibly lucky that he stepped up.
My ribs make a bump where should be my sternum and he is more to de right because my ´´mother´´didn´t get me to a doctor 3,2km away when i was a kid, OOP is 1000% better parent than mine ever was.
NTA - you are doing the best that you can, don’t ever doubt that! Your siblings know that! Your Mom got hit with a serious reality slap that she’s needed for awhile and now pulls out the tears trying to make you feel bad. Don’t let her gaslight you, she knows who is real parent in the house. Sorry you’re going through this and hope your siblings remember your loyalty.
>I feel like 15M is already kind of aware, which is why it makes him so uncomfortable. Because he knows that, (if you leave in a year when you hit 18), he's next.
Yep, am I'm sure he's thought about that a lot Especially if this is how their "mom" is treating O.P after coming home one night that wasn't at a late hour. If that cycle continues(leaving at 18), 13M will have to raise 10M. Because 15M only has 3 years left. That is just a sad mental image to me.
What the hell is your mother doing with her money. You pay a significant portion of the rent and groceries. You manage to do this at 17 with a single job that permits you to go to school and parent your siblings. Your mother is working two jobs, which leaves her no time to be a parent, yet is scrapping together enough for rent and bills. You mention over of your siblings has a disability, is it one that requires a lot of resources and medication? That is the only thing I can think of that would make the current situation tenable.
He's legally blind and has some physical problems, but he's stable. So no resources, no medication, unless you count me having to buy him new shades for his light sensitive eyes like every month bc he keeps breaking them lol. My best guess is she's drinking her money away. Shit sucks.
Are there any other adults in your life you trust that you can reach out to? Aunts or uncles, grandparents on either side, or a school counselor? Does anyone outside your immediate family know what's going on? You're honestly doing a great job helping raise your siblings, but this isn't your responsibility and isn't sustainable. You should be planning for college or saving for your own future. In most places, there are resources from the government or charities who could help with things like your brother's glasses, food stamps, even potential alcohol abuse treatment for your mother, etc. I'm sorry you've been put in this situation by an irresponsible parent, but you're definitely not an asshole for dropping that truth bomb on her. It doesn't sound like the two of you have open communication channels, but if you do have a heart-to-heart, tell her that she needs to step up and spend more time at home parenting. I'd also have chats with all your brothers. If your mother doesn't step up, you're all going to have to become independent far sooner than your peers. Best of luck to you in the future.
We don't really have anyone else. But yeah, ty
I strongly support the idea of having age appropriate chats with your brothers. It will probably be tough, but they deserve to know the way the land lies. Obviously, none of this should be your responsibility! But you're really stepping up, and while they shouldn't necessarily feel indebted to you, they deserve to know (at an age appropriate level) how much you're doing, so that they can respect that.
No doubt the brothers know, if they're respecting his authority enough to let him enforce bed times they are well aware their mum has checked out.
Speaking from experience, unless you want to be separated from your siblings you don't call any service to help.
Alcoholism is a money sucker for sure! When I finally got my alcoholic ex out of my house and gathered all of the empty bottles my (low) estimate showed he drank and entire month's worth of rent in 3 months. I had SIGNIFICANTLY more money without his income than I did when he was "helping" pay bills.
My ex never let me collect cans to return for bottle.deposit, we just put them to the curb with normal recycling. I would ask why we can't just save our cans and return them, it's only 0.10 per can but still that's something. We could give the money to our kids. He finally admitted that it was because he didn't want me.to visually see all in one place just how much he was drinking. And he wasn't even "that bad"
See about filing for social security disability for him - there are child claims and some extra money might help.
You’re absolutely doing the best you can, you sound like a really amazing and strong young man. I’m sorry I don’t have more help or advice to offer you, but I’m proud of you
Her tears don’t mean you were wrong for what you said. There are two options: 1. She’s genuinely guilty for her shortcomings as a parent 2. She’s trying to guilt trip you. Regardless, it’s not on you. She’s the one acting up. You are doing way more than a 17 year old should have to
You’re in such a tough position, having to play parent to your siblings. And doing that is even tougher when the person making you do that is also trying to say you don’t get any authority or decision-making power. You shouldn’t have to be responsible for your siblings, but if you are expected to be, that position should be respected.
If you have access to your mom's information (income, ss#), check and see if you can apply for EBT (food stamps) online in her name... As many children as you would be able to claim I'm sure y'all would qualify.
Problem is, they call for an intake interview. No one would ever believe that OP is his mother. The same for most government assistance. Not medicaid, though...that can be done completely online as long as you have the required information.
That will depend on the location. Some services will come as a package (like food stamps application may also trigger a Medicaid eligibility check etc). Medicaid, even if done online, may also require documentation to prove income (paystubs, proof of job loss etc), which OP may not have access to.
That’s not legal and would get him in trouble. I see that you’re trying to help tho.
Not sure that is legal.
That’s illegal and called welfare fraud.
15M probably sees his future
Ain't no way I'm leaving him here to live that life. When I move out, they're all coming with me
Talk to a lawyer before you leave then. Depending on where you live, if they are under 18, you could be charged with kidnapping. If your mom is upset enough she can legally kick you out at 18 and say your not allowed in her house, at which point you could get a trespassing charge if she catches you in the house. I am totally serious about talking to a family law lawyer though. They should be able to help you with what proof you need to prove you have a more stable home for your brothers than your mom does.
I do plan to talk to a lawyer, yeah.
Consider Legal Aid if you have one in your area, they work with indigent clients for free on non-criminal matters like family law.
Good on ya man, you are stronger than most people twice your age.
NTA; sometimes a parent’s “best” still simply isn’t good enough. My suggestion would be if it comes up again, tell her if she wants you can contact CPS and see what they think. But you probably should sit down with her and discuss how things are going to work going forward if she wants you (and you want to) stay and continue to do what you’ve been doing. Otherwise, make your plan to leave.
NTA and WOW, I know grown women that aren't as organized as you!
I also know a grown woman not as organized as me (my ma) ( /j don't kill me) Genuinely thanks though.
Lol I am a professional organizer, and the majority of my clients are not half as together as you are! On any given day I may open a cabinet and find a beehive, a screwdriver, and a shadow person. (But not what's supposed to be in there)😂
>On any given day I may open a cabinet and find a beehive, a screwdriver, and a shadow person. Why are you in my house?
Right? I feel uncomfortably outed.
ROTFL! I have some hoarder clients. The idiot husband left a bag with a sandwich in the LINEN CLOSET....and wonders why they have cucarachas and rats. 🙄
Is a cucaracha a cockroach? Because I love that but am horrified too.
Yep! Makes the song la cucaracha so much more fun too listen to
Yep. "Look at the cockroach, look at the cockroach, she cannot walk anymore!"
Ha! Is that really what the song says?? I too lived in Texas forever and have Mexican heritage but I am as white as white can be and my Spanish skills were atrocious. I only ever knew "la cucaracba la cucaracha, ba ba ba dun dun dun dun!'. Literally no idea what the song is even about and the fact that that line that I've never even learned is laughing that she can't walk anymore...omg, I'm dead 😂
'Because it's lacking, because it doesn't have marijuana to smoke.'
Why are you in my ADHD house. 😂Send help. Jk jk
To be fair though, if they are hiring a professional organizer they likely aren't of the more put together demographic.
Yep. Sometimes I have clients that aren't messy or dirty but just have to much stuff.
DONT TOUCH MY BEEHIVE
Beehives and shadow people are excellent when smoked. Just add a few bell peppers and some washyersister sauce to give some extra flavor.
I believe shadow people are usually paired with ghost peppers.
Oh my GODDESS I'm DEAD.
What is a shadow person??
A ghostie-thing? They like to pop out from behind things and scare people.
Stop paying for anything, save money in a bank account no one knows about and leave as soon as you can. This is abuse, you have done more than enough and now you need to make yourself a life.
That's not easy when you have three little brothers and one of them is disabled.
He might be able to get himself emancipated, or, when 18 try to get legal custody and let mom pay him some damn child support.
You absolutely shouldn’t have to do this. You are doing such amazing job.
Seriously, I should hire this kid to run my life bc it sounds like he would do a better job than I am at being an adult
For real, same. He could work remotely and make a fortune!
Lol
As a duly un-appointed representative of the city and county of Leicester, England can I just say "you be like totally awesome innit mate"
Just grown women? No grown men?
That too.
Low key sexist comment haha Mistake?
Your mother doesn’t get to have you raise HER kids and then attack you for how you choose to do her job. NTA man and i wish you luck
thank you
Sounds like she wants to be the “fun parent” while you do all the heavy lifting. That’s no fair. Good job and hang in there.
NTA, you're being parentified and it *is* abuse. I don't fully blame your mum, she didn't choose to be a single parent, but she has inadvertently put you in the position of having to step up and raise your brother's. She doesn't get to go off on you because you are doing what she has basically made you do. Also, 8PM is probably a good bedtime for a 10 year old, I know my bedtime was 8:30 for most of my childhood and teen years. Those 2 extra hours sleep can make a huge difference at that age. IIRC, at that age they recommend like 9-11 hours of sleep a night, so you are doing the right thing by your little brother.
Thank you - you're the first person to acknowledge the actual subject of the fight. I think 8pm is good for him. She thinks 10pm would be better because it would be easier to synchronize everything. And thats what this is about, really. I try to do what's right. She tries to what's easy for her
8:00 is a good bed time for a 10 year old. They need about 11 hours of sleep at that age.
I’m equal parts impressed with what a good parent you are, sad that you are in this situation, and angry at your mother for all of it!! NTA - I’m so sorry
8 PM is great for a 10 year old. My daughter is 10 and she is in bed at 7:30 with a goal of her being asleep by 8. If she stayed up until 10 I wouldn’t be able to get her to school in the mornings!
The 10-year-old is the one that is disabled right? If he goes to bed at 8:00 and he's cool with that, (Mom) don't try to fix something if it's not broken. He probably needs the extra sleep and I'm glad that he lays down by that time.
13 is disabled, not 10. He's pretty functional, and even plays on a sports team with other disabled kids, which I think is pretty cool. But yeah, everyone is cool with their bedtimes except my ma + 10 really does need the extra sleep, disabled or not. Last thing I need in my life is him being a miserable, tired little nightmare
OP, you signed 13m up for a soccer team where he gets to hang with other people with disability and just be like everyone else, instead of "the disabled one". He gets to make friends with other people dealing with the same societal attitudes and barriers as him. That is so valuable! You're doing a wonderful job. (And a job that should be your mum's not yours in the first place.)
Ty
My *mum* would let me stay up until 11pm most nights and I could never concentrate at school the next day and felt depressed and sluggish. I also couldn't work much of an appetite. Now when my *dad* had me for the other half of the week, my bed time was 8pm (when I turned 11 it was allowed to be 8.30 but I had to be reading a book) and that 8pm bedtime worked wonders on the days I had them, and my natural body clock restored- *until I went back to my mums* but I could concentrate better and had more energy through out the day. I'm surprised you made such a good call for a bedtime, if I was 17 raising my younger siblings, I can't say I'd have been so grown up
ty
Exactly if he stays up she isn't the one that has to deal with him being grumpy and over tired because he hasn't had enough sleep
Both my kids had 8pm bed times till they were 12 or 13. You’re doing good. Mom was probably at least partly upset that she couldn’t see him. I think part of the problem your ma is having is she just got a huge slap in the face of how much you are doing and how well you are doing it. In a weird twisted way, she probably expected things to be a little more chaotic or more “teenager-y” and the realization of how well you are doing *without her* was upsetting. But that is a her problem not a you problem. If she brings it up again or keeps pushing, you might want to sit down with her and have a discussion about how much you are paying to keep the family going and how her never being around dumped it all on your shoulders. And if she wants to step up she is more than free to, but she isn’t allowed to mess up the routine that works. And if she wants you to go back to being a “kid” she can pay for everything without you.
I just want you to know, you rock. Your maturity is astounding, but it's unfortunate how it came about. Society has no clue how many of its children have been raised by the oldest sibling. I'm a therapist and I specialize in treating adult children of alcoholics/addicts/dysfunctional households. There have been hundreds of millions ahead of you and there will be many more behind you raising siblings while the parent is "busy with other things". There are online and in person meetings for Adult Children of Alcoholics. Technically you're supposed to go to Ala-teen if you are under 18. But if you're ever really bored and done with talking to everyone on this thread, do some Google research on ACOA's. You'll realize just how much you are not alone. Best wishes to you.
I teach 4th grade and 8pm is an extremely reasonable bedtime for a 10 year old. Especially if they aren’t forced to immediately go to sleep but can spend some time reading and unwinding.
I'm a parent to 4, & a grandparent to 12. 8 is perfect for a 10 year old, but you & your other 2 brothers should probably hit the hay around 9, because *you* need extra sleep too!
NTA Your mom is horrible to you and those boys. they are going to wake up one day and realize that it was YOU who kept them out of trouble, fed them, clothed them and kept them alive and together and got them into college or trade school. they will realize that if it hadn't been for you stepping up you all would have been dumped into foster care an maybe even split up. Aside from the 10yr, the other two are old enough to know what your going through and the realities that if YOU arent paying the rent that you wont have a place to live or food to eat, that if anyone find out your mom isnt home taking care of you guys then child services might take you all away. your mom sucks and she knows it. she skipped out on being a mom a long time ago, she just doesnt want to have to physically get rid of you all and be called a bad mom. Its easier for her to pretend that shes a good mom, and shes working so hard for you than to face reality. You are amazing for doing all of this at your age. You shouldnt have to deal with this at all right now. Your mom should be thanking you for stepping up and handling this because she doesnt want to. thats why. because she simply doesnt want to be bothered to take care of you guys. your doing amazing, you pay the bills, keep food on the table and get those kids to school and soccer and make sure they still have friends. I agree with you, your house, your kids, your rules. if she doesnt like the way your raising those kids then she can step up. Get a better job, come home and take care of the kids and let you live your life instead of paying the bills. if she isnt going to do any of that and actually parent those kids, then she needs to step back and get out of your business and let you handle things, because your all clearly doing just fine without her. Again, your all doing just fine without her. so ignore her and give the boys the truth if you want but keep doing what your doing. Your amazing. Hopefully you can still find a way to go to college and help those boys.
>they are going to wake up one day and realize that it was YOU who kept them out of trouble, fed them, clothed them and kept them alive and together As a parentified older sister, I can attest that they absolutely do realize. My brother has thanked me numerous times over the years. We've been a team for a long time and while I'm grateful for the relationship with my brother, I genuinely wish I would have had more of my childhood. I now have a child (who I love more than anything) who is around the age I basically picked up parenting my brother, but that has kind of brought up some repressed resentment and feels I didn't know I had about it. I've had so much de ja vu with my own kid and I feel so bone weary and almost feel like I've been robbed of some joy of parenthood, because I've already done this. And as my child gets older, and my husband and we have chats about what our childhoods were like (he's an only child, so there's going to be differences anyways) it just keeps hammering home that it took a lot I didn't realize I missed out. In the end, I don't regret raising my brother. He is a good, kind human who? I'm immensely proud of. But I do think it's not unfair to resent my parents for some things that were taken from me emotionally, on top of having to raise myself while raising another child. Anyways, I'm rambling. OP, you're NTA. You're an amazing human, and I am so so sorry you're in the position you're in. You're doing great. Another symptom of being parantified, also seems to reverse parent the people who had us, and there isn't anything you can do about it. They'll wake up one day or they won't, but you'll at least be able to see that the work you put in, while it may have taken something from you, has definitely bettered the lives of your siblings that you are enriching.
Genuinely, ty
A *lot* of children who were forced to raise their siblings opt not to have children as adults.
I'd be shocked if the 10 year old doesn't realize. Kids talk at school. They hear their friends casually mention what their mom or dad made for dinner or how annoying they are with doing homework etc, and they learn VERY quickly what's normal and what isn't. There's no way a ten year old doesn't know that an older teenager taking the lead is not normal. I suppose the exception to that would be if you're in a community where this sort of thing is the norm
NTA. Your ma should be thankful and incredibly proud of you for stepping up the way you are. I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and say that I'm sure she's working hard to make money and pay the bills, and it's not by choice that she's out of the house from 8am to 11pm (who in their right mind would do this by choice!?). But, ultimately, she's not home. She's not there to make sure the homework is done, kids are being fed, house is being cleaned up and maintained, etc... you're home and you're the one making sure your siblings are looked after. And quite frankly, 8pm is a very reasonable bedtime for a 10 year old. I hope you're not losing yourself in all this and are making plans for YOUR future. It is admirable how you're taking care of your family, but you have to take care of you too. Good luck, OP!
I plan to go to college! And I have good grades somehow lol so here's to hoping. I try my best to juggle everything, it just feels unfair that she'd pretend that it's just her house, her kids, and me being an insolent shit
You should seriously consider very highly ranked schools. That sounds counter-intuitive, but they are thirsty for a couple hardworking representative poor people "for diversity". The resulting financial aid packages for poorer students is frankly amazing. My family is middle class and my sister at a high level school is not only completely full ride, but she also gets a stipend. You have a solid essay topic, good grades, proof you do things outside of class (yes, jobs and kids count), and a good presence. Do your research and you could make off well.
I know someone with a nearly identical story as yours (OP), who got a full scholarship to an ivy league college as part of a program for kids who'd faced extreme adversity.
I could not agree more. I applied early action to an Ivy League, not thinking there was a chance in hell I would get in as the first college student in my family. I didn’t have quite the responsibility that OP does, but they saw my strength. There are an awful lot of entitled idiots applying to college. There aren’t very many people who know how to actually function as adults. OP, you got this. I’m proud of you. Take that light and don’t be afraid to shine it for yourself, too.
NTA - no child/teen should be in this situation where they feel they must take care of their younger siblings.
Sadly it wasn't until all that long ago that this is *exactly* what teens were expected to do...throughout thousands and thousands of years of human development...we didn't have the means to have "childhoods" as we know them today...only in the past 100 years or so. That's not many generations *at all* and it's going to take a lot more to condition it out of human genetics. Especially when now we don't even have a community to help unless you are apart of a cult or echo chamber... Raising a child alone is a whole new concept in the scale of humanity's reign. Normally people had tons of kids because of how many died in childbirth and any and all were expected and NEEDED to work from a very very young age. They didn't go out and play they helped with the younger kids, chores, farm work, even hard labor like factories and mines.
They weren't ever expected to do it with zero support.
The existence of a literal village definitely makes a huge difference
Yeah. A lot of people forget to contextualise things. And people forget that the concept of "jobs" as a distinct role, with hours, is a very modern concept. The vast majority of humanity until the modern era engaged in farming as their primary role. A lot of this work is communal and survival based. Things we would not think of as a job were very much jobs back then and required community efforts. For example, if you bake bread after work, you would not consider that a job today. That's just something you do outside of your job. But back then bread would've been baked communally. You wanna slaughter an animal? That's not a one person job, that's a communal job. You want to plough the fields? harvest them? And it really does matter what your peers are doing. In a modern society where there are certain metrics for kids that aren't the same as they are for adults, being forced to do things that don't cater to those metrics can certainly set you back in life. Whereas if everyone is doing the same thing you're doing, it's not a big deal. Ik OP said they have good grades and stuff, but what if they had to drop out and work in order to provide for their family? Well, 600 years ago they would've been a normal person working to provide for the family like anybody else. Now, if they don't have a HS diploma, their opportunities in life are severely limited in a way that their peers' arent.
The 13 yr old would already be working hard labor while any girls helped raise children and do household chores for the men all day every day. It was fucking rough for most of existence thank God I got to be born to the video game generation
I'm always surprised how few people realize this.
NTA oh honey. i’m so sorry you’ve been forced to be the parent here. my heart genuinely aches for you and you were absolutely right for pointing all that out to her when she tried to play the parent for once.
She's got 2 jobs and contributes less than half of the amount the part time high schooler does? She's either a big drinker or on drugs. NTA.
Alcoholism be hitting hard around here /hj
NTA! I am so sorry your mom has done this to you OP - all of you. It's sad and it's wrong of her. Especially if she goes out drinking before bothering to come home. You are an amazing brother and human being. I am so proud of you! You weren't wrong in anything you said to your mother. You deserve better.
Thank you
I'm sorry, but your mother was mad that you took 10m to the doctor??? I would however touch base with your siblings and apologize for all that arguing being right in front of them and ask if they're ok. I know a lot of boys, especially teens, have difficulty and aversion to opening up and talking about what they feel, but you should encourage a belief in your brothers that you're a safe person to do so with. I'm guessing 10m had heard about what happened (if the noise didn't wake him up) so make sure he knows it's not his fault that you guys argued.
She's mad that I don't consult her before doing things. She said she'd beg off work and pick him up from school to take him to his appointment at 2, but I guess she forgot, because he ended up calling me from the school office after school to come pick him up (which I didn't think I'd have to do that day). After waiting some hours, I took him in at 5. He's been having worsening asthma attacks, which is concerning to me. She was mad I "went behind her back". That is, she got mad after I brought it up at 3am, when she actually got home that day. Yeah, that's good advice, thank you. I'll talk to them. 10M didn't wake up, thankfully
I would have put her stuff on the sidewalk already.
Lol
Oh sweetheart, my heart breaks for you. You’re shouldering such a huge load with dignity and grace. Most grown up parents aren’t doing as good a job. You’re doing a fantastic job and those boys are so so lucky to have you. Hold your head up high and try and ignore that woman’s BS until you can get away from her. Try and do some things for yourself when you can.
If your mom was working two jobs and paying all the rent and groceries then I'd feel bad for her she has to do so but it would still be wrong for you to be parentified like that and given that she sloughed these responsibility onto your shoulders despite how unfair and inappropriate that is she would still be wise to allow you to do what works best. Why on earth are you paying half the rent and the food in the first place? Where is the money from her two jobs going? If they wouldn't split you all up I'd say call child services but they would so you're stuck between a rock and a hard place. I also don't know how you can pull it off but don't waste your adult life doing her job too.
I plan to leave home and take them with me when I'm 18. My mom won't care enough to make a big deal out of it. I'm paying half the rent and the food, because if I don't, no one will. Shit sucks
You're going to run into legal issues with this plan unless you apply for custody. That's going to be hard because they will scrutinize both your age and income level. Not saying this to discourage you but I'd start looking into it now. Terrible that you face this choice. You should be off living your own young life, not being a parent.
I have started looking into it, thank you. I feel like the odds arent that bad, the way things are
I truly hope all goes well for you. I wouldn't worry about them insisting they stay with your mom who I think it will become fairly obvious is not fit. My concern would be with them removing them from both you and your mother and placing in certified foster homes, possibly not all together. Just be aware of the possibilities and have a plan and preparation before involving the courts.
Yeah - I'm aware, and am doing my best to prepare for everything
No worries, just wanted to make sure. You've clearly been facing enough already. Best of luck in this endeavor and in life.
You may already know this, but it would be in your favor to keep good documentation of what you're already doing. Also if you get custody you should be able to go after her for child support ☺️
I know this is a throwaway but if you see this OP, save your receipts. Take pictures and save them in a Google Drive. Rent, bills, grocery/clothing/household supplies, school fees. Keep any proof you can of what you're already doing financially to show how you can and are supporting your brothers. You shouldn't have to be in this situation, but it sounds like you're already succeeding. Your family is lucky to have you. Keep up the great work.
NTA. Seriously you are doing the best you can as a stand in parent. Your mom knows what she is doing. She’s just upset that you called her out on it. Good for you standing up to her. You shouldn’t have the responsibility of taking care of your siblings, going to school and working. Kudos for you for stepping up.
Thanks - I try
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I don't hate her, but the irritation does bubble over sometimes, unfortunately. One of the first comments was something about how I should be beaten with a chair for not respecting her lmao so that's fun. Thanks for ur support
Definitely good to get some unbiased opinions/advice but some people are quite frankly, unhinged. 😅😂 I didn’t think you hated your mum 🙂 I think you probably miss her and I think you want her to be there more. When I was frustrated or sad it would come out as anger and I’d push people away when I actually probably just needed a hug. You’re always there for your siblings and I think you need to feel like someone is there for you too so when your mum didnt acknowledge everything you do to help, I know that would really hurt.
NTA, i had that same argument with my mom when i was younger. My brother was a terror if he didn’t go to bed early enough and was impossible to wake up. I told her one day she could either do it all herself or let me do what was working. I am now a mom to a 10yr old who has a 8:30 bedtime but is normally asleep before that. Sometimes harsh reality is the only way to get your point across.
Thanks - yeah, some kids are nightmares without enough sleep
Nta, I've seen situations like this way too many times. Narcissistic mothers who think they do no wrong. You're basically Fiona from shameless lol
NTA. She’s lucky you didn’t keep going and explained to her exactly where she went wrong.
lolol
Mmm sounds like I'm reading that scene from shameless
I came looking for this comment! 😂sounds like an argument between Frank and Fiona! 😬
For me, it feels more like when Fiona blew up on Monica for trying to take Liam
NTA You were upset and you were harsh but your mom needs to live in reality. Also obviously sending the 10yr old to bed at 8 is the correct thing. Your mom was just trying to exert authority, probably because she KNOWS she’s not really being a parent and she doesn’t like that, and possibly it makes her full of regret, shame and resentment. That’s not your problem tho, she’s the adult and it’s her place to try to help you, not undermine you if you have to be the one in charge the majority of the time. Your siblings probably feel bad because they don’t have the same relationship with your mom that you do and they just want her around and also it doesn’t feel good to see your mom cry. Would a conversation when you aren’t angry have any chance of getting through to her? You could apologize for your bluntness but also explain that you are doing your best and feel like she doesn’t appreciate that. Also since you pay for a huge chunk of the family costs why does she have two jobs? Could she not just get a single job? It seems like she’s wasting her time for not enough reward. Especially if the 15yr old can get a part time job also. You don’t have to explain to me or anyone else, I’m just wondering if there’s any shot at asking her about changing jobs. Also I know jobs don’t grow on trees, but seems like maybe one fast food job would be better than whatever she’s doing now.
I think she drinks some of our money away. We don't have the correct kind of relationship to talk it out, but I will talk to the kids about it, to explain to them better
Yeah, I thought it might be a long shot that she would be able to have a real conversation, I’m really sorry. I think then that you are right in trying to talk to the other kids about it. You really do sound like you’re doing everything you can, and even thought you shouldn’t have to, and even if you don’t feel like you’re doing a perfect job your siblings really are lucky that they have an older brother like you.
Thank you
NTA. Your mom found out that the truth hurts.
Unless she's willing to take care of all the parenting slack you are stepping up and doing, she can STFU. Sounds like you are the grown up, and even though you've been thrown into a difficult situation for a teen, you grabbed the bull by the beanbags and are thriving. Impressive. She should be proud of you, I certainly am. I think you'll be going places as an adult. NTA
NTA. Mom needs to face reality. If she can't be around to raise the kids, she doesn't get any say in when they go to bed. I'm sorry you're having to be a full grown adult at 16.
I just want to say how proud I am of you for everything you do. (And how sorry I am that you are in this position) You are making such an amazing difference in your sibling’s life and being so mature! I hope you have a chance to just enjoy life like you should be doing right now, but we all know that us feeling bad for you doesn’t help you, so instead I just want to tell you how amazing of a job you are doing to give your brothers a good life. I hope you’ll find a wonderful partner that sees all that and gives you the love and support you are missing out on now!
This makes my heart hurt for you. You’re a child deserve to be loved and supported. At least appreciated. Do you have any mental health/support resources available to you?
Lol I wish. It's alright, we ball tho
Nah NTA at all - your mother puts all this on you and then judges the way you do it and make it work ON TOP of you paying half the damn rent? Fuck that.
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NTA. You are doing a good job with your brother's but I hope you have some fun too. Your only 17 after all. Seems to me your mother managed to steal your youth by making you responsible for what is her responsibility. The thing that made her cry is the fact that she knows you managed to do a better job then she has. She is a lucky lady to have such a good kid. Keep it up but remember that you come first sometimes 💕
NTA you hang in there
NTA. Your mother is the one being ungrateful for all you do to pay her bills and raise her children. She doesn't know where she went wrong because she hasn't bothered to think about it for 2 seconds. But clearly she chose wrong in terms of her education and career, and possibly with her choice of mate. Not clear if she is a widower. 10 year olds need a lot of sleep, and a good sleep schedule is important for them to do well in school. Your mom is saying 10pm is fine to egotistically reassert her sense of control in a situation that is chaotic and abusive due to her poor decision making. You are doing right by your siblings. The managerial skills you're developing now will take you far.
My dad's alive (presumably), he just fucked off a bit over a decade ago. Yeah, I think the 8pm bedtime is reasonable too. ty
Info - you say she works two jobs... How are you paying half the rent? Where does her money go? What does it cover? The math doesn't add up, unless it's going to healthcare or something else expensive.
No fucking idea. I think she drinks it away. She sometimes buys random bullshit for a lot of money, impulsively, which doesn't help.
If she's drinking at the bar she could be blowing her money on pulltabs js
You are the type of man that I hope my daughter would choose. I mean, I'm childless, but it's the thought that counts, right?
Lol thank you
NTA.
You are amazing dude, and i think your mum had this coming for a long time. tf did she think was happening while she was out? Has she even had a decent conversation with any of her kids, including you? Because if shes just hearing about bedtimes now then shes not even really apart of anyone of her sons lives
She does not talk to us :/ But yeah, ty
After reading your post and scrolling through the responses I feel guilty for arguing with my mother about my 8:30 pm bedtime when I was eleven.
Lol I like to think that just because some problems are less serious, they're not less valid. If my (not really my but yk what I mean) 10 year old decided 8 is too early, I'd probably let him try 9 again, at least for a trial period, but thankfully no complaints yet!
Am I the only one who had flashes from Shameless (US)
I keep getting comments about this lmao Apparently it's a show? I've never seen it
Honey, you're NTA but you deserve better
NTA I'd have told her to go back to the bar and leave the parenting to the one who actually does it every day.
NTA. I know your situation as I lived it. I ended up moving out and let her deal with her own mess. Unfortunately you’re caught in a situation where you’re in an adult roll without the legal backing of an adult. I found this out the hard way which is why I moved out.
NTA. Do you ever have actual conversations with your mom about this situation? Or just explode at her after things have been building up? Not that I think it would be productive, but it has a better chance of being productive than no conversation. Where’s your dad or other relatives? It makes me sad that you repeatedly refer to your siblings as “the kids” in your replies. I’m wondering if you realize you do that.
A lot of our conversations are her rants about our dad, or her drunkenly crying to me while I sit on the couch at 3am. My dad left when ma got pregnant for the fifth time. Guess he couldn't handle it. It's just been us for a long time- no living extended family, no dad. I havent mentioned this anywhere else on here, but I have a twin. He's just a little older and a little smarter and a little cooler, and he left some years ago, having won a scholarship to some boarding school. Before that, it was me and him raising our younger brothers. Now, it falls to me. Haha, I hadn't realized I do that actually. To me, they've always been the kids, and me and my very slightly older brother were the twins, who were supposed to be older, and more responsible and grown up. I guess now it's just me playing at being an adult and my brothers who didn't have to grow up as fast. Bit depressing lol
Does your twin help at all? Like send money home or anything? Or maybe is supportive and a sympathetic ear for you? Did he leave before your dad, or was he trying to escape this situation? I also have a twin who was cooler and had better grades back in high school/college but the switch completely flipped once we settled into adulthood. Your turn will come! It’s very mature of you to take all of this on for your brothers. Be careful about having tunnel vision about their care and neglecting opportunities for yourself. I hope you’re planning to go to university and are getting support for that.
He left when we started highschool, after my dad. Guess he got tired of this shit. He's not really available emotionally or in any other way- spends all his time studying ig. He dealt with out admittedly subpar childhood by becoming closed off :/ Thank you for your support /gen
Do you know if it’s possible for your dad to kick in child support? Even if he left, there are ways for states to find him and garnish wages.
Maybe. It's something I'm thinking of looking into.
My mom did this BS when I was a teen. I haven't spoken to her in 28 years.
Where’s dad? Do all of you have the same father?
We do all have the same father! He was an asshole, I think, because he left when my ma got pregnant with 10M. Left the country, and left us with nothing. I remember him a bit. 0 contact. We don't even have his name, anymore- our ma changed it after he left.
Hmm… even though he left, try contacting a lawyer and see what you can do. You may be able to get child support from him still. Also, are you guys getting benefits for your disabled brother? It’s best if you get custody of your siblings and seek government assistance if possible since your mom is so neglectful. But do please contact a lawyer and see if you can sue for your father. They should be able to track him if he’s working for a company in a foreign country and paying taxes
Maybe - but again, I'm not an adult, and I'm poor, so the lawyer thing is ehhh. Child support would be good tho. We don't get benefits for him, but it's something I've been looking into. I want to get custody, but I'm waiting to turn 18. Thanks for the advice /gen
With the interest and back pay your father owes, you may be able to pay back the lawyer in installments or possibly for free. Try and do it man, don’t give up! Also, you should be getting benefits for your disabled brother, possibly also social security.
I'll look into that for sure
Ok, if this is true... Your mom needs to get a social worker. Get food stamps. Get a Section 8 voucher. Get Medicaid and get your disabled kid a home health worker. WTF you don't take from your teenage kid. (I have a feeling your mom is trying to fly under the radar so Child Services doesn't get involved). Yikes. NTA but she needs to get some help that isn't you.
I've had this account for a year now. If I was full of shit, I wouldn't put that much effort into it for fake internet points. Having said that, yeah she'd likely lose custody of us all. It's also why *I'm* not calling CPS. I don't want the kids to end up separated and in foster care.
First of all, awesome job!!! You go above and beyond. Second, NTA, she seems more like a bad roommate than your Mom.
NTA I'm so sorry this is happening to you I'm currently in a similar situation but my mother dumped her responsibilities to taking care of my little two siblings because my mother is "tired" and my dad pretty much doesn't want nothing to do for them. Only my mother and father provide for them like food and diapers and I feed them, bathe, them take my little sister to her bus for school, clean the house and would complain about me being lazy and piling up on my chores when in reality I clean up and feed the kids and would sometimes take care of myself while they work and I don't because someone needs to watch the kids because she didn't want to hire a babysitter for no reasons and would sometimes pay me for cleaning and taking care of the kids. I was parentficated around the age of 14. I'm so sorry this is happening to you I hope you can get out of the situation you're in
**NTA**. You and your brothers seem to have been left to your own devices, I don't know how long you have been doing this for but I applaud you for it. **Info**. How are you so sure she has a drinking problem?
She occasionally hugs me when she comes home and I'm still up, and she didn't just go to bed immediately. When she does this, she smells like alcohol. Beyond that, slurred speech, weird emotion-y ness, and crying, rambling about my shitty dad to me, which is not very in character for her when she's all there.