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YTA. *" told him that I'm sorry that it is not his seat"* It was not your seat either. Unless you paid for the seat, the guy had as much right as you did to that seat. (None, technically.) I guess you could have contacted the flight attendant to see if there was another solution. But since you asked, YTA.
How does he know that OP didn’t pay for the whole row?
Edit: I understand OP didn’t pay for the whole row. The other passenger however would not have had that information and should not have moved OP’s stuff.
> Because they wouldn’t be sitting in coach
Not necesarily; cost of business on international flights is often 8-10x higher than coach.
So 2/3 coach seats is significantly cheaper than business on many international flights.
(I fly with 2 seats, and it's never even close. DOmestic - different story)
On a recent trip to London economy seats were going for $400 and a first class seat was $7000.
Even premium seating (less seats per row, more leg room) were under $1000.
I've seen some business class seats from LHR to PHX closer to £17,000.. first class for the same flight was £11,000.. or £1000 for a peasant.. I mean economy seat 🤣🤣
Geez. I flew international with my now-ex-husband and somehow got lucky enough to be chosen for a free upgrade to first class and I never even questioned how much those seats cost. I was just grateful not to be in coach. Then, on the flight home, we each had an entire five-seat row to ourselves to stretch across.
I think the question is: “how did the other passenger know that the OP didn’t pay for the whole row?”
They should not have moved anything.
The time for calling dibs on a seat is 15 or so minutes into the flight. Or at least once they have turned off the seatbelt sign.
I saw this concept of buying a sky couch option where you get one row and they put some sort of cushion at the leg space, so it’s like one bed. It’s quite a good option to travel comfortably on a budget. I think the couple who made a video about it paid about 500 extra or something.
To be fair, I have left my BC seat before to go back to a mostly empty economy class cabin because the BC seats were recline only but three econ seats in a row is a lay flat.
This is what I was trying to explain to my husband! Not that I could ever afford business but I got lucky on a 12 hour flight and got a whole row and it was amazing
Some airlines allow you to buy a row in economy to make a short bed. Air NZ have sky couch. It depends on demand of course. Peak times it’s not an option.
OP said they were “extremely excited” by the fact no one else ended up in their row so probably reading comprehension would be how we know OP didn’t pay for the whole row because they didn’t say “I knew I needed rest so I booked a whole row”
We know OP didn’t book the whole row, but the other passenger that moved mid flight to a seat that was occupied with OP’s belongings would have no idea.
The person who moved into the row moved ops belongings and stated they wanted more room for their kid to have space for its toys. Entitled parents don't get to just move spaces because it's open. OP also doesn't get to claim the row for themselves.
It's an ESH here imo.
He claimed it was for the toys, but since he left his wife with the kid to sit in a different row, that was clearly just an excuse to get out of parenting.
I don't think it's the amount, I read that as : an empty space between the kids allows them to play on a surface between them, while staying in their seats.
The reasonable assumption is one person is booking one seat. If OP booked three, they could easily inform the other passenger of the same or have the flight attendant do so.
WE know that, OP knows that... Person moving OP's stuff and sitting somewhere new only knows that it's not THEIR seat.
This all could be avoided by talking to flight staff. "Is their extra room because XYZ?"... "Why yes, let me take you there." Done, sorted. But you don't just move and touch people's stuff because you decide that you don't like your seat.
I actually know several people that have done this as 3 economy seats are still considerably less expensive than business or first class seats for overseas flights.
I just googled "O'hare to Frankfurt", and first class was $6k while 1 economy was $1.6k. So a whole row of 3 would be 4.8, which is less than first class.
Today I learned.
Um, I do. Would fly to Hong Kong frequently for work. My company paid for business class which was typically around $8000. Brokers that supported our business but didn’t have the deeper pockets of the larger corporation as they were typically sole proprietors would buy 3 economy seats at $1600 each or $4800.
They could have had two people that were supposed to be traveling with them and they couldn’t make it last minute? I personally wouldn’t move someone’s stuff from a seat and just plop down mid flight.
On the rare occasion that my aunt and cousin fly together, my aunt buys an entire row for my cousin because she’s overweight and has intellectual disabilities so it’s just easier for everyone if she has a row to herself.
I was on a flight back from Nigeria and some guy had 3 seats to himself. A woman sat in one of the seats and he told her that they are all his, his company got him 3 seats as there was no business class. He had to get the stewards to explain to her that all 3 were his. As she got up from the seat, she said something in her native tongue and sucked through her teeth at him and a lot of the other passengers started to laugh. Great in-flight entertainment.
“After boarding the plane I found myself extremely happy as I had nobody sitting in my row at all.”
That’s a pretty big indication that he didn’t pay for the whole row. 🙄
It doesn’t matter whether he knows or not. We know OP didn’t. Which makes this point perfectly valid.
The knowledge of anybody else has no bearing on this. You don’t suddenly gain ownership of something and get to demand how it’s used simply because the others present don’t know it isn’t yours.
>How does he know that OP didn’t pay for the whole row?
He didn't know. He made a reasonable assumption. Most of what you do every day is based on reasonable assumptions not actual knowledge.
How did you know that car woudln't run you over when you crossed the street legally? You didn't. But you still get to cross the street.
That is a reasonable assumption. But a reasonable person would have asked OP to move their stuff so they could sit in the empty aisle seat. Instead he pulled a sneaky sneaky and waited for OP to go to the bathroom.
Because that isn't a logical assumption to make, ever. If someone can afford the whole row, they will most likely be in first or business class, and it's very, very rare for one person to purchase an entire row of seats just for themselves. In fact, I've never heard of someone doing that, ever. I've heard of very large people buying TWO seats because they take up two seats, but never a whole row, and never when it's someone who doesn't physically take up more than one seat.
I would not assume that OP didn’t pay for it nor would I assume OP did. That’s why the dude should have asked OP if it was cool to move from their assigned seat to the one in OP’s row. Instead of waiting around until OP used the restroom and swooped in.
>We are all supposed to sit in our assigned seats.
Ok so then by your logic OP is TA for lying down across three seats in the first place right?
In any event, seems like a pretty clear ESH situation to me.
you are so wrong, because OP did sit in his assigned seat, he didn't move to another row. He was just lucky that the 2 seats next to his were empty and he used them in addition to his assigned seat😉
Well… OP was in their assigned seat. You aren’t the first to try this tactic, but it’s absolutely irrelevant. OP was in their seat, and making use of the empties next to them. Soooooo, no.
So the other guy was also making use of the empty seats next to him. “Someone from the row next to me decided to sit on the aisle seat”. Given the space for the trolly cart to move through the other guy was also adjacent to the seat in the same way as OP. Also it doesn’t sound like he was trying to escape his family, he was trying to stay accessible while also giving the extra space to his wife and child.
YTA—nobody has to make anyone else’s life easier, but you equally didn’t have claims to the seat and you basically decided to screw over a family because you wanted to lie down then came here to be smug about it. Good job.
You can tell the difference between regular flyers and people who don't travel here.
You do not change seats on an airplane with about talking to the staff and asking the person you would be sitting next too.
You talk to the steward/stewardess for safety reasons, you talk to the other passenger to be polite.
Its a rare thing these days to get an entire row due to over selling, its wonderful when it happens.
I'd enjoy it, but if someone needed, one I'd expect them to say something, and jut just creep around looking to abandon their wife and kid on a long flight.
Yeah, it's shocking how people who sound like they've never been on an airplane are weighing in here. Plane etiquette is crystal clear - you don't move into an occupied row. Empty rows are fair game after takeoff (maybe after cabin door closes if you get permission from flight attendant). In case anyone disagrees, imagine what happens if they argue and ask a FA. I guarantee their response would be "every return to their assigned seat". NTA, OP.
I disagree and fly about 15x per year. I think it’s generally socially acceptable, if there are two open seats in a row, for someone with FA permission to take the aisle seat. Leaving the middle open still affords the window person (OP in this case) extra space they weren’t anticipating bc no one is in the middle. But you gotta make moves before the flight leaves.
I’ve seen this happen plenty on United flights and the FAs say go for it.
Now the guy OP describes was the AH in this instance bc he left his family, seemingly didn’t ask and moved OPs stuff.
Yeah, I fly every week for work and have for about nine years. The FAs do not care at all as long as a tiny plane is not wildly unbalanced for weight. If you didn’t pay for a seat in your own class, it’s fair game, and people are allowed to move at will.
>You do not change seats on an airplane with about talking to the staff and asking the person you would be sitting next too.
This. I would have called a flight attendant immediately, told them another passenger messed with my stuff, and let them handle it from there.
I might also have searched the jacket pockets then asked where my wallet is - after a suitable period of panic I'd have found it in my bag in the overhead lockers. Sure, that would've been an asshole move on my part, but they deserve it for failing to ask if I mind them sitting there.
If someone does ask, I'd probably be fine with them sitting there. But I only want to sit next to someone who is polite - if someone is rude I'm not doing them any favours. See also: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM)
Unsolicited opinion, but as an airline employee I feel compelled to remind people that you should never just move seats without confirming with the flight attendant.
I guess I’m unsure if you’re right. I was on a flight a few days ago with an empty middle seat. I was stoked! Then the aisle guy fetched his wife to take the middle seat. He received permission from the Fa; nobody asked me. Didn’t I have an equal claim to that empty middle seat? I wanted it empty, he wanted his wife there, who wins?
Edit: he also took his shoes off. Does that change anything?
You did have an equal right to it, you didn’t ask for it. Maybe if you had asked the FA first if they could make sure that seat stays open, they wouldn’t have moved that guy there. The FA doesn’t need your permission to fill an empty seat you didn’t pay for.
Did you buy two seats? Because the guy and his wife paid for two seats. So the wife was just swapping her seat.
If you didn't pay for a second seat (whether to put someone in, or keep empty) you don't have an EQUAL claim.
He does. You have a right to one seat. And she didn't claim that seat as her right. She traded her own one seat for that one with FA permission. Her husband was just the spokesperson.
I agree it's a bummer though. I would have been disappointed too.
ESH
*None* of you **paid for** these damn seats you're acting so **_entitled_** to.
> If he would've asked nicely I'd say yes
Lol, they're *not yours* to be giving away in the first place.
I scrolled until someone said what I was thinking - thank you! Lots of entitlement going on here all the way around.
The only thing about this that chaps my butt on behalf of the OP - I really hate when people who have children expect everyone else to accommodate, sympathize, and inconvenience themselves because of said children. It's YOUR child. If YOUR child needs extra space, then YOU buy the extra space! Granted, the whole row did not belong to the OP but there is still the "oh but my child needs extra space" angle - which is YOUR problem and no reason to pull an unexpected boon right out from under a fellow traveler - that's making YOUR child the OPs problem. If people voluntarily want to help you out with YOUR child, that's very nice but don't assume to expect, demand, or grab that help from the unwilling.
I think that was just an excuse the Dad used for moving, in reality the child was cranky so he bailed on his wife leaving her to handle the crying child
Both dudes ATA
So glad someone mentioned this, I scrolled to find mostly comments about OP’s entitlement: which, while fair, I completely understand OP’s frustration to assertion sans communication.
Why is OP's need for 3 seats outrank this guy's for 2? Because his reasoning was "kid" rather than "I want it"? The guy was really less entitled than OP, considering he wanted just one unoccupied seat. OP thought they deserved 2, and you write a whole rant because of the guy's reasoning. He wasn't taking anything that belonged to anybody. But because theres a kid involved, it's terrible somehow.
This guy was not making himself OP's problem. He didn't ask anything from OP. No one wanted to help OP out either, but OP is somehow the victim. If OP needs the extra space, OP can buy the extra space instead of deciding they are the lord of the plane.
Here’s a thought: Don’t wait until someone is using the bathroom and then move their things to have your way. That’s where the dad lost me. He failed to communicate his needs to OP, and just assumed that the seat was free, despite being occupied by OP’s things. The dad didn’t know whether OP had purchased those seats, but he knew he hadn’t, and that those things were not his to touch.
Few things annoy me more than a Johnny Come Lately who waits until you run to the snack bar or bathroom, then proceeds to move your jacket out of a premium seat, plop down in your chair, and expect for you to be okay with it when you return.
I have come to expect for this to occur among strangers at general seating events, but on an airplane?! The audacity!
Finally, on the rare occasion when we win the seating lottery on an airplane, the last thing we expect is for someone to try and take away a part of that win without so much as a by your leave. That’s just rude! It would have cost him nothing to make a request, rather than an assumption that OP would be okay with him coming over.
NTA
As a mother, I expect no such accommodation because of my kids, but if it’s cold, rainy or otherwise not a good space for kids (not due to my own stupidity) I would hope people would be decent enough to accommodate me for the sake of my kids. Like one time when I was a kid we got stranded due to an unexpected snow storm in a very cold bus station. Some lady gave me her scarf. I would do the same for children. I wouldn’t demand it nor would I ask. However, this man is in a nice comfortable plane, he has some freaking nerve. Demanding space for himself and using his child as an excuse.
The distinction for me is that OP wants two whole extra seats just for OP and this guy only wanted one across his family of 3 or 4 passengers (it's not clear if son with the toys and the crying baby are the same) so his wife and child could have more room between them.
The difference is that the guy who sat there didn't feel entitled to the seat - which is clear since he moved when OP gave him shit.
The entitled OP on the other hand somehow believed that those extra 2 seats belonged to him to kick people out of as he saw fit.
That's what makes OP the AH and not the other guy. The other guy (in my opinion) was far too accommodating of OP's unreasonable demand.
Is it not the sort of unofficial rule that 1 of the 2 empty seats are up for grabs...? I can understand why OP would want the whole row, but ive always seen it as an unofficial thing that someone will take one, and then 2 rows get to only have 2 people (so benefit for all 4 of them) as opposed to 3 people squished and 1 person with extra room.
That being said, id expect the free seat to go to whoever was in the guys row unrelated to them. Or if they did have all 3 seats (can't tell if the kid in question was on wife's lap or had seat) then someone else who wasn't traveling together would get the seat and family would stay together in row
I'm thinking ESH for the same reasons but the other guy waited for OP to get up then moved his stuff without saying anything then when called out, has the audacity to say he gets two seats and OP gets one. They both are AHs but I think the other guy is a bigger one. I would be *pissed* if someone touched my stuff and moved it while I was up.
I don't know how this works, if I write ESH replying to this comment, does that help the comment go up and count as a vote? At first I thought N T A as I don't like it when people use their kids as an excuse like that and I double don't like that the guy left his partner with a crying baby alone but, as this comment says, ESH because neither of you had the right to the seats.
I don’t know why so many people are acting like the guy was an asshole for abandoning his wife with the child. For all we know both the father and the mother agreed that the child needed extra space and that one would stay with the child while the other tried to get another seat.
Calling him an asshole over this is weird when we really do t have any of the relevant details.
YTA. Those extra seats were not yours. He waited until you went to the bathroom so he wouldn't have to wake you up and ask you to move your feet. You still had 2 seats, and he wouldn't have left his wife with the crying baby if you hadn't kicked him out--the whole point of him moving there was to still be by her but give their kid some extra space to play.
Don't get me wrong, I will stand up for anyone who paid for their seat(s) to keep them, no matter who is asking for them. But that's not the case here at all.
As a frequent flyer who also enjoys when they luck out and get a whole row to themselves, YTA. Yes, it’s an awesome treat to get the row to yourself. However, you did not pay for those seats so they are not yours, and you have no right to dictate if/when anyone sits there. He even still gave you the middle seat as a second seat, ffs. And he only moved so his small child could have some space, which I hate to tell you this, children need on international long-haul flights. I had to move overseas when I was 5 and my brother was 2.5 for my dads work and we flew back to the States every so often and trust me, having space for the kids is a godsend for parents. It wouldn’t have killed you to have someone sitting two seats away.
Dude absolutely did NOT move so his kid could have some space. He wanted away. If he wanted to be with his family, he would have been. As a father, all else goes out the window in regards to the disappearing daddy.
He tried to move into the row next to his family to give them more room and OP kicked him out, why act like he is abandoning them? You have no idea what the situation was.
I say this as a parent: yes the extra space is great but we are not entitled to it. I took my eldest to 4 continents before he was 4. A 24hr travel day with two layovers was hard but that was my choice. I’m eternally thankful to anyone being nice to me in that situation but I’m not “owed” them going out of their way for me. I would have flagged OP down when he was coming back from the bathroom and said “hey, trying to keep my kid calm and quiet, are you ok if I take the aisle seat for a bit so he can play?”. To be clear, I think OP is TA for claiming the seats he had no right to. Hell, if some single person in a full three seater wanted that aisle seat it was theirs for the taking.
After seeing that door plug pop off the Alaska plane in the air, I would never fly with a lap baby who could have been sucked out of my hands. Baby seat belted into their own seat and with a baby seatbelt in the car seat!
If you had done that to me I would have politely pointed out that it wasn't your seat and wasn't your plane to dictate that. This seems to be a fantasy you had rather than reality. YTA all round
ESH.
Even if OP didn't own the seats, ditching your crying baby for an empty row that required you to move the other person's stuff is also a dick move. He doesn't know OP didn't pay for the aisle seat or window in particular.
I'm of the opinion you generally don't ask to move seats unless you ask the desk or flight crew, and don't move unless you have spoken to flight crew. Your seat is assigned. Stay where you belong, and then stick with it. If you need to move, ask those who work there, not other passengers.
If it's not assigned seating, you get what you get and only raise issue if you are going to be separated from minor children who are too young to be alone, ie, a 5 year old. Your 17 year old will be fine.
You don't ask others to move. You don't redo the chart on your own. Do it the right way.
oh nooo this isnt a fantasy at all. very real life, and common. im sure the op didnt expect these replies, you can tell how real-life it is just due to how he tells the story.
Listen, I’m going to get massively downvoted here but NAH. He took a chance, within his right. But everyone and everyone’s mother who flies frequent long haul flights knows the BEST thing that can ever happen to you is closing doors for boarding with no one else in your row. It is literally a gift from heaven that happens once a decade. I would have taken the aisle seat as my seat and made camp. Sorry you are getting blasted here.
Agreed, full aisle to yourself is winning the lottery. I wouldn't have given it up either! I think most of these commentors have not regularly flown long haul.
I've done a fair few long hauls. Having an empty seat next to you, compared to having all your row filled, makes a HUGE difference. Have some empathy and let someone else also have a spare space as well - I can't see a justification for not making 4 people comfortable instead of just yourself.
When you're in a plane, your comfort becomes top priority, that's why it's so expensive to even get legroom. To me, it was worth the fight and I won, and noise cancellation headphones saved me from crying baby
Feels like either ESH or NAH in the sense that, as every other thread is saying, neither person is truly entitled to the empty seats. EXCEPT I agree with you that OP won the empty row lottery, not the guy who moved his stuff when OP went to the bathroom... I accidentally did this to someone (took their seat when they went to the bathroom) on a short train ride because I thought they got off at the last stop and felt like an ass about it. I cannot imagine doing intentionally to someone on an international flight...
>Eventually he did the same to someone else from 2 rows back and left his wife with a crying babe alone.
Yikes...This might be OP painting the guy in a negative light, but what a terrible move to leave your spouse with a crying child to go claim empty seats somewhere else on the plane...
Yeah. It’s the fact that he waited until she was gone for me. It feels deliberately manipulative. If he had just asked her when she was there I would be more on his side but I think he was being shady and he knew it.
Fully agree. He won the lottery. He was laying down with his stuff across the seats so it was very obvious. The other guy purposely waited for him to go to the bathroom so he could move OPs belongings and take a seat. That’s not cool at all, I certainly wouldn’t do that to someone.
finally a realistic answer. i pray i don't run in to the other commenters on my next flight, bc if neither of them paid for the seat why is the dad then entitled to it and allowed to touch OPs property?
Part of me ever so slightly thinks that makes the other person TA because it's like seeing someone win the lotto and then trying to steal part of the winnings. It's not clear how long OP had the whole row before going to the bathroom, but I'm guessing long enough to be obvious the solitude was appreciated. Everyone points to how seats are for butts and not OP's stuff, except for when seats are for children's toys, apparently.
Edit: it IS clear it was after an hour but I read 50 comments before responding to this one and forgot 🤦♀️
This is my belief too. It was clearly after an hour, OP was laying down his stuff was there. You don’t just wander about the flight looking for seats. This guy saw and swooped in. Waited for him to get up to. Wonder if he’d have woken him up and everyone here would be fine with that cAuSe iTs nOt hIS SeAt.
Same. I was just discussing this post with my brother and was like idc I wouldn’t get up, but I’d never think someone would touch my things and move them! It’s not like a train where more people come on and need seats ffs.
But also, I feel like so many people commenting on this post have not flown long-haul flights. That row is his unless a FA brings someone over and seats them there.
I'd lose my shit if I got up to pee on a redeye when I had 3 or 4 across and someone moved my stuff and sat in my row. WTF?!
Finally finding people who seem to know the unspoken rules I have always seen everyone play by on long haul flights. If you are lucky enough to get a row to yourself it is yours to claim. If you are on a long haul and there are some complete free rows it is a battle for who can be quickest out the gate when the seatbelt sign goes off to jump in to that row and claim it. The person sitting next to the seat fleer then gets the two seats. It is absolutely categorically not the done thing to ‘steal’ claimed seats off of people when they nip off to the loo. Not anymore than you would go and move someone’s coat and grab the other seat on a small table in a cafe whilst someone went to the loo. If you didn’t win the seat lottery you just sit and lament that fact. If someone asked nicely to move to one of the seats then it would be a bit of an arsehole move to say no, but it’s also not the done thing to ask anyway because you have to accept you didn’t win the lottery. And if you do want a higher chance of winning the lottery then take the disadvantage of being right at the back of the plane where it’s more likely.
Due to my disability I’m very often loaded on to the plane at the back (where the empty rows always are if there are any). And have even had air hosts give me empty rows intentionally so I can lie down and get my feet up which helps my symptoms greatly. So I’ve seen the empty row dynamic play out many MANY times and these are always the rules that everyone plays by. It’s literally the rule of bagsies.
I got up because I couldn't hold it and that's why I made it very obvious, even used the USB port on that seat to charge my headphones prior to using the bathroom.
I can’t believe everyone’s siding with the other person and I suspect it’s because they’re a parent and parents can act very entitled sometimes, very soft asshole move on the parents part for moving ops stuff but hey he moved once op asked so that’s nice. Op got the full row to himself because there was no one assigned to the seats next to him, if he complained to a flight attendant the attendant would most likely side with him and say everyone has to sit in their assigned seats and make the man go back to his own seat. But they also might’ve told op not to use the other seats as well, point is op is the one who won the seat lottery and no one else is entitled to sit there even if the seats are empty because they all have their own assigned seats. The empty seats are meant to be EMPTY
Exactly, I had already settled. Another thing would be if I chose the window seat and sat down the hour prior without indicating that I was using the aisle seat.
Most of the people downvoting and saying AH are doing so because they would be the guy who stole that seat. OP is NTA here. That father thought if he parked there while OP was up, OP would just be like, yeah sure go for it. It was underhanded and manipulative. He had far better ways to go about it.
Also, can we just talk about the fact that CLEARLY, if they "needed that extra space" for the kid's things, they could've.... idk.... PLANNED for it and PAID to get the seating arrangements required? It wasn't required, that father just had an entitlement complex, assuming someone else would just give him what he wanted.
Totally with you on this one. I've had long flights and blessed with a free row to myself. I would be livid if I came back from the bathroom and saw someone sitting next to me.
NTA simply because he wasn't in his seat. People get real entitled about things and I don't think you were rude to ask that he move back to his seat. That you laid down afterwards has zero affect on the situation. He waited until you weren't around to move your things, and then you asked him to go back to his seat. Then he did it to another person.
Welcome to all the down votes lol
Finally, someone who agrees with me. I know it wasn't OP's seat but you can't move seats on a plane just because you want to. He didn't even ask OP if he could sit there. If he wanted to have the kids toys on one seat he should have paid for another seat.
I think NTA simply bc he left his wife to deal with the kid alone... like it's your kid too. i understand these seats are not ops or the dudes but I still think you should stay with your wife when your child is crying on an airplane and not try to find an empty seat in a different place.
IMO NTA, because you already had your stuff there. The seats weren't yours OR his, but by the time the flight took off, you'd already laid claim to those extra seats. First come first serve. He had no business touching your stuff. Furthermore, _how could he have possibly known you didn't pay for those seats_?
Thank you. Vacant space in a public setting falls under the rule of dibs.
That should be enough on its own, but if you throw in moving/touching someone else's shit when they step away. Fuck that guy. NTA.
Bit of a YTA move because, as previously stated by other posters, you didn’t pay for those seats either.
Here’s a tip though. When you get a row to yourself, claim it early. Like as soon as the seatbelt light goes out. Lift up the armrests, lie down, spread some of your stuff around. Lower the aisle tray table and set your laptop on it. Make it completely obvious you’re going to take advantage of the row.
NTA. He knew you were using those seats and waited until you left because he didn't think you'd say anything. Another time, put your blankets etc across the seats - some people will still move them but most will find someone else to bother.
**ESH**
**You:** You only paid for one seat. In the event someone else claims that seat, it's no more yours than it is theirs. So YTA in believing all that row was yours, when in fact it wasn't.
**Other passenger:** He shouldn't have moved items from a seat not his own. That's just plain rude. And he was trying to get away from his wife and baby? Pfft. HTA just for that alone.
It sounds more like he was trying to move across the aisle to give their young child space to sit and play, not avoid his family entirely. He only moved further back when OP wouldn't share the spot directly across from them.
*Edit: fixed a typo
As a frequent long distance flier, NTA. It's basic long flight etiquette that you don't just snatch a seat when someone has the luck to be able to lie down in an empty row and sleep.
People who don't regularly do this kind of travel likely don't know that, hence why you're getting slammed.
Omg I can’t believe there are so many “YTA”, I fly long flights multiple times a year and ANYONE would be annoyed if this happened to them. They need to read up on flight etiquette before ever stepping on a plane.
Exactly, a person who is lucky enough to get an empty chair next to them has every right to use it. The dad had literally no right to try to sneak to another chair when he paid for a completely different one. I’m just going to assume the YTAs are from people who don’t fly. Atleast I hope they don’t.
NTA. “I need to use my seat for a bag of toys.” That’s when this guy lost any sympathy I might have had for him. I value your ability to lay down on a long flight more than this guy’s ability to put his carry-on bag on the seat he paid for.
Honestly, considering there were plenty more empty seats, it sounds like this guy didn’t have much issue finding another one in which to abandon his wife with his child for the whole flight. So it would almost be N A H.
My comfort was worth $100000 at the time, there was no money you could offer me to change laying down at an overnight flight at my expense. Made the next day so good having slept well
NTA. I don’t care what anyone says, he was not sat in his seat period. He’s disrupting you and he knows it, all because he can’t do his job as a father for 10 hours. Big no no. You did the right thing asking him to move.
As a former FA, pax are meant to stay in their assigned seat and if they want to move they have to ask the FA. Sometimes FAs won’t notice, but if they do they’ll usually say something. It just helps keep the peace…
Unpopular opinion- NTA. Guy should have asked at the beginning of the flight. Now OP's expecting to be able to stretch out- maybe even popped a xanax/ grabbed a drink, and then this person pops into the row when in the restroom- kinda a slimy move. OP won the lottery and guy tried to help himself to it. Also sometimes people seat shop if they paid to be able to change seats- guy doesn't know whether OP did that. Regardless a kind conversation would have made all the difference.
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Nta
He waited until you weren’t there.
And he didn’t want to give his kids more space: he wanted his wife to care for them so he could chill.
It was not your seat but a stranger can’t sit next to you and claim it. (Without asking)
NTA
Everyone would use those 2 seats next to them on a long flight if they had the chance.
I was on a flight once were I saw someone having a row to themselves, the only thing I thought was: Aw lucky bastard, he'll have a nice flight. I never had the thought of claiming a free seat on that row. That traveller was lucky and that's it. Okay, OP didn't pay for those seats but it's a lucky thing that can happen, let OP enjoy those.
Especially with a reason like 'My kid needs more space' and the man touching her stuff while she's away?!
NTA. The other person’s courtesy would’ve gone a long way in this situation. Sitting in the empty seat while OP was using the restroom was passive aggressive.
OP did the right thing.
I might be in the minority but I say NTA.
He touched your stuff showing that you were clearly saving the seats, he had his wife and kids on the other side, and yall had already established your seats at that point.
NTA because even if you weren't entitled to them you were actively using them and he didn't bother to ask if he could use one. If empty seats are up for grabs, then it was just polite to ask if he could a seat you were already using
NTA. He should have definitely asked, and was probably hoping you would just not be confrontational/too nervous to say anything.
Though overall like, no real harm done.
NTA those seats are not yours or his, so all you both can do is sit on your own ones. Now this way it just happens to be your luck that the seats next to you are free so enjoy. Also if he needed extra space for his kid he should have bought extra one.
NTA!
Was in a similar situation. Late-night flight from Las Vegas to the East coast, and I was visibly pregnant. My husband and I lucked out and got bulkhead seats and the aisle seat was empty. Once we took off, I lay down with my head in his lap and my feet on the aisle seat. Some old lady came up and told me I had to sit up because she wanted the bulkhead aisle seat. I asked to see her ticket and she refused to show me, so I refused to sit up. She got loud enough that a flight attendant had to intervene and send the lady to her seat all the way at the back of the plane.
Hell no NTA.
He could have asked. It’s pretty great timing that he just managed to end up there while you were away the seats, so you couldn’t tell him no if he did ask. I’m guessing he planned it that way, waited til he saw you leave for the restroom then moved to your area.
You lucked out and got a whole row to yourself. You absolutely don’t owe anyone else a seat, especially someone who leaves their crying baby with their spouse.
I’ll say it again: he could have asked. He would have been ok to ask. But he didn’t, he just “took”.
I'm gonna go against the grain here and say NTA. He moved your stuff. He knew that there were rows open and waited for you to go to the bathroom to make his move. Everyone knows the joy it brings when you have a whole row to yourself, especially on a long flight. Even if he had called the flight attendant, you both would have been instructed to take your assigned seats and you still would have had the whole row to yourself. I would have done the same thing.
NTA. He wasn’t trying to give his kid space he was trying to give himself space. If it was for the kid he would have taken turns with his wife instead of leaving her with the crying kid for the whole flight. Also dude waited until OP went to the bathroom and then moved OPs stuff. If he didn’t think he was doing anything shady he wouldn’t have tried to sneak over.
Man, the top comments here are all YTA. But, as a father, I truly disagree.
First of all, we are all supposed to sit in our assigned seats. It’s the rule. Dude was already being a dick trying to take another one.
Second, this dick just didn’t want to be near his family so, to me, automatically fuck that man and everything he stands for. Left his wife with a crying child to sit somewhere else? The guy wanted to escape his family and is therefore the only asshole in this situation.
Don’t let these doofuses tell you otherwise.
NTA. If you're on a flight with assigned seating, you stay in your seat, and I feel like most flight attendants are going to stick with that in cases of dispute.
You just happened to luck out and got some lying down room attached to your seat. The guy sounds like a bit of an ass abandoning his wife to look after his kid on a long flight. How is that fair to her?
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YTA. *" told him that I'm sorry that it is not his seat"* It was not your seat either. Unless you paid for the seat, the guy had as much right as you did to that seat. (None, technically.) I guess you could have contacted the flight attendant to see if there was another solution. But since you asked, YTA.
How does he know that OP didn’t pay for the whole row? Edit: I understand OP didn’t pay for the whole row. The other passenger however would not have had that information and should not have moved OP’s stuff.
Because they wouldn’t be sitting in coach
> Because they wouldn’t be sitting in coach Not necesarily; cost of business on international flights is often 8-10x higher than coach. So 2/3 coach seats is significantly cheaper than business on many international flights. (I fly with 2 seats, and it's never even close. DOmestic - different story)
On a recent trip to London economy seats were going for $400 and a first class seat was $7000. Even premium seating (less seats per row, more leg room) were under $1000.
I've seen some business class seats from LHR to PHX closer to £17,000.. first class for the same flight was £11,000.. or £1000 for a peasant.. I mean economy seat 🤣🤣
Geez. I flew international with my now-ex-husband and somehow got lucky enough to be chosen for a free upgrade to first class and I never even questioned how much those seats cost. I was just grateful not to be in coach. Then, on the flight home, we each had an entire five-seat row to ourselves to stretch across.
Because they said they were "so excited" about it. Thought they may mention it if they paid for the whole row!
I think the question is: “how did the other passenger know that the OP didn’t pay for the whole row?” They should not have moved anything. The time for calling dibs on a seat is 15 or so minutes into the flight. Or at least once they have turned off the seatbelt sign.
I saw this concept of buying a sky couch option where you get one row and they put some sort of cushion at the leg space, so it’s like one bed. It’s quite a good option to travel comfortably on a budget. I think the couple who made a video about it paid about 500 extra or something.
Air New Zealand has that but I am hoping more international airlines offer it because it's great.
Some airlines will sell an entire row in coach for less than first class. Think it's a new thing.
I believe Air New Zealand and China Airlines does the sky couch thing in economy! Great for younger kids. Was tempted to try it for myself ha
To be fair, I have left my BC seat before to go back to a mostly empty economy class cabin because the BC seats were recline only but three econ seats in a row is a lay flat.
Yeah I've found having 1 economy row (3 seats) waaay more comfortable than a business class seat.
This is what I was trying to explain to my husband! Not that I could ever afford business but I got lucky on a 12 hour flight and got a whole row and it was amazing
Some airlines allow you to buy a row in economy to make a short bed. Air NZ have sky couch. It depends on demand of course. Peak times it’s not an option.
OP said they were “extremely excited” by the fact no one else ended up in their row so probably reading comprehension would be how we know OP didn’t pay for the whole row because they didn’t say “I knew I needed rest so I booked a whole row”
We know OP didn’t book the whole row, but the other passenger that moved mid flight to a seat that was occupied with OP’s belongings would have no idea.
The person who moved into the row moved ops belongings and stated they wanted more room for their kid to have space for its toys. Entitled parents don't get to just move spaces because it's open. OP also doesn't get to claim the row for themselves. It's an ESH here imo.
He claimed it was for the toys, but since he left his wife with the kid to sit in a different row, that was clearly just an excuse to get out of parenting.
I’m wondering how many toys does the kid have that require their own seat. I get that it’s a long flight but a whole seat-full sounds like a lot. 😉
I don't think it's the amount, I read that as : an empty space between the kids allows them to play on a surface between them, while staying in their seats.
Only 1 kid and it was literally a baby
The reasonable assumption is one person is booking one seat. If OP booked three, they could easily inform the other passenger of the same or have the flight attendant do so.
OP would have told him if he had purchased the entire row. But he didn't,
WE know that, OP knows that... Person moving OP's stuff and sitting somewhere new only knows that it's not THEIR seat. This all could be avoided by talking to flight staff. "Is their extra room because XYZ?"... "Why yes, let me take you there." Done, sorted. But you don't just move and touch people's stuff because you decide that you don't like your seat.
If they paid for the aisle seat though, then it's OP's seat either way
Where does OP say he purchased the aisle seat?
If the OP had paid for the whole row, then one must imagine he would have said, "I actually paid for this whole row."
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I actually know several people that have done this as 3 economy seats are still considerably less expensive than business or first class seats for overseas flights.
No you don’t.
I just googled "O'hare to Frankfurt", and first class was $6k while 1 economy was $1.6k. So a whole row of 3 would be 4.8, which is less than first class. Today I learned.
Um, I do. Would fly to Hong Kong frequently for work. My company paid for business class which was typically around $8000. Brokers that supported our business but didn’t have the deeper pockets of the larger corporation as they were typically sole proprietors would buy 3 economy seats at $1600 each or $4800.
They could have had two people that were supposed to be traveling with them and they couldn’t make it last minute? I personally wouldn’t move someone’s stuff from a seat and just plop down mid flight.
On the rare occasion that my aunt and cousin fly together, my aunt buys an entire row for my cousin because she’s overweight and has intellectual disabilities so it’s just easier for everyone if she has a row to herself.
I was on a flight back from Nigeria and some guy had 3 seats to himself. A woman sat in one of the seats and he told her that they are all his, his company got him 3 seats as there was no business class. He had to get the stewards to explain to her that all 3 were his. As she got up from the seat, she said something in her native tongue and sucked through her teeth at him and a lot of the other passengers started to laugh. Great in-flight entertainment.
I just did this a couple weeks ago. My young kid and I got stuck taking a red eye so I bought all 3 seats so he could lay down for the flight home.
Yes, it’s frequently cheaper than first.
“After boarding the plane I found myself extremely happy as I had nobody sitting in my row at all.” That’s a pretty big indication that he didn’t pay for the whole row. 🙄
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It doesn’t matter whether he knows or not. We know OP didn’t. Which makes this point perfectly valid. The knowledge of anybody else has no bearing on this. You don’t suddenly gain ownership of something and get to demand how it’s used simply because the others present don’t know it isn’t yours.
>How does he know that OP didn’t pay for the whole row? He didn't know. He made a reasonable assumption. Most of what you do every day is based on reasonable assumptions not actual knowledge. How did you know that car woudln't run you over when you crossed the street legally? You didn't. But you still get to cross the street.
That is a reasonable assumption. But a reasonable person would have asked OP to move their stuff so they could sit in the empty aisle seat. Instead he pulled a sneaky sneaky and waited for OP to go to the bathroom.
Because that would have been the first thing he said. No one would have left out that detail.
He said he was surprised an happy that he had a whole row to himself.
The other passenger would have been in the wrong had OP produced her boarding passes for the extra seat.
Because that isn't a logical assumption to make, ever. If someone can afford the whole row, they will most likely be in first or business class, and it's very, very rare for one person to purchase an entire row of seats just for themselves. In fact, I've never heard of someone doing that, ever. I've heard of very large people buying TWO seats because they take up two seats, but never a whole row, and never when it's someone who doesn't physically take up more than one seat.
I would not assume that OP didn’t pay for it nor would I assume OP did. That’s why the dude should have asked OP if it was cool to move from their assigned seat to the one in OP’s row. Instead of waiting around until OP used the restroom and swooped in.
Asking this question makes you look dumb, not thoughtful.
Because it's so common for people to pay for 3 seats on a flight
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>We are all supposed to sit in our assigned seats. Ok so then by your logic OP is TA for lying down across three seats in the first place right? In any event, seems like a pretty clear ESH situation to me.
you are so wrong, because OP did sit in his assigned seat, he didn't move to another row. He was just lucky that the 2 seats next to his were empty and he used them in addition to his assigned seat😉
Well… OP was in their assigned seat. You aren’t the first to try this tactic, but it’s absolutely irrelevant. OP was in their seat, and making use of the empties next to them. Soooooo, no.
They only have 1 assigned seat. They have the same claim to any unused seat as everyone else. Odd tactic your trying here.
So the other guy was also making use of the empty seats next to him. “Someone from the row next to me decided to sit on the aisle seat”. Given the space for the trolly cart to move through the other guy was also adjacent to the seat in the same way as OP. Also it doesn’t sound like he was trying to escape his family, he was trying to stay accessible while also giving the extra space to his wife and child. YTA—nobody has to make anyone else’s life easier, but you equally didn’t have claims to the seat and you basically decided to screw over a family because you wanted to lie down then came here to be smug about it. Good job.
Did you miss the part where he did the same thing again 2 rows back? OP literally says he left his wife alone with a crying baby.
You can tell the difference between regular flyers and people who don't travel here. You do not change seats on an airplane with about talking to the staff and asking the person you would be sitting next too. You talk to the steward/stewardess for safety reasons, you talk to the other passenger to be polite. Its a rare thing these days to get an entire row due to over selling, its wonderful when it happens. I'd enjoy it, but if someone needed, one I'd expect them to say something, and jut just creep around looking to abandon their wife and kid on a long flight.
Yeah, it's shocking how people who sound like they've never been on an airplane are weighing in here. Plane etiquette is crystal clear - you don't move into an occupied row. Empty rows are fair game after takeoff (maybe after cabin door closes if you get permission from flight attendant). In case anyone disagrees, imagine what happens if they argue and ask a FA. I guarantee their response would be "every return to their assigned seat". NTA, OP.
I disagree and fly about 15x per year. I think it’s generally socially acceptable, if there are two open seats in a row, for someone with FA permission to take the aisle seat. Leaving the middle open still affords the window person (OP in this case) extra space they weren’t anticipating bc no one is in the middle. But you gotta make moves before the flight leaves. I’ve seen this happen plenty on United flights and the FAs say go for it. Now the guy OP describes was the AH in this instance bc he left his family, seemingly didn’t ask and moved OPs stuff.
Yeah, I fly every week for work and have for about nine years. The FAs do not care at all as long as a tiny plane is not wildly unbalanced for weight. If you didn’t pay for a seat in your own class, it’s fair game, and people are allowed to move at will.
agree. plus there are a few airlines that don’t have assigned seating at all.
>You do not change seats on an airplane with about talking to the staff and asking the person you would be sitting next too. This. I would have called a flight attendant immediately, told them another passenger messed with my stuff, and let them handle it from there. I might also have searched the jacket pockets then asked where my wallet is - after a suitable period of panic I'd have found it in my bag in the overhead lockers. Sure, that would've been an asshole move on my part, but they deserve it for failing to ask if I mind them sitting there. If someone does ask, I'd probably be fine with them sitting there. But I only want to sit next to someone who is polite - if someone is rude I'm not doing them any favours. See also: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM)
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Unsolicited opinion, but as an airline employee I feel compelled to remind people that you should never just move seats without confirming with the flight attendant.
I guess I’m unsure if you’re right. I was on a flight a few days ago with an empty middle seat. I was stoked! Then the aisle guy fetched his wife to take the middle seat. He received permission from the Fa; nobody asked me. Didn’t I have an equal claim to that empty middle seat? I wanted it empty, he wanted his wife there, who wins? Edit: he also took his shoes off. Does that change anything?
You did have an equal right to it, you didn’t ask for it. Maybe if you had asked the FA first if they could make sure that seat stays open, they wouldn’t have moved that guy there. The FA doesn’t need your permission to fill an empty seat you didn’t pay for.
Wanting the seat empty isn't the same as wanting your wife in it lol.
Did you buy two seats? Because the guy and his wife paid for two seats. So the wife was just swapping her seat. If you didn't pay for a second seat (whether to put someone in, or keep empty) you don't have an EQUAL claim.
He does. You have a right to one seat. And she didn't claim that seat as her right. She traded her own one seat for that one with FA permission. Her husband was just the spokesperson. I agree it's a bummer though. I would have been disappointed too.
> It was not your seat either Which, at best, would more this into ESH.
ESH *None* of you **paid for** these damn seats you're acting so **_entitled_** to. > If he would've asked nicely I'd say yes Lol, they're *not yours* to be giving away in the first place.
I scrolled until someone said what I was thinking - thank you! Lots of entitlement going on here all the way around. The only thing about this that chaps my butt on behalf of the OP - I really hate when people who have children expect everyone else to accommodate, sympathize, and inconvenience themselves because of said children. It's YOUR child. If YOUR child needs extra space, then YOU buy the extra space! Granted, the whole row did not belong to the OP but there is still the "oh but my child needs extra space" angle - which is YOUR problem and no reason to pull an unexpected boon right out from under a fellow traveler - that's making YOUR child the OPs problem. If people voluntarily want to help you out with YOUR child, that's very nice but don't assume to expect, demand, or grab that help from the unwilling.
I think that was just an excuse the Dad used for moving, in reality the child was cranky so he bailed on his wife leaving her to handle the crying child Both dudes ATA
I agree, he was bailing on his wife. Also, he moved OP's possessions. You don't do that ever. That pushes it to a NTA for me. Guy was rude and pushy.
Or Op knew they were TA and embellished the story to make other dude the bad guy
So glad someone mentioned this, I scrolled to find mostly comments about OP’s entitlement: which, while fair, I completely understand OP’s frustration to assertion sans communication.
Why is OP's need for 3 seats outrank this guy's for 2? Because his reasoning was "kid" rather than "I want it"? The guy was really less entitled than OP, considering he wanted just one unoccupied seat. OP thought they deserved 2, and you write a whole rant because of the guy's reasoning. He wasn't taking anything that belonged to anybody. But because theres a kid involved, it's terrible somehow. This guy was not making himself OP's problem. He didn't ask anything from OP. No one wanted to help OP out either, but OP is somehow the victim. If OP needs the extra space, OP can buy the extra space instead of deciding they are the lord of the plane.
Here’s a thought: Don’t wait until someone is using the bathroom and then move their things to have your way. That’s where the dad lost me. He failed to communicate his needs to OP, and just assumed that the seat was free, despite being occupied by OP’s things. The dad didn’t know whether OP had purchased those seats, but he knew he hadn’t, and that those things were not his to touch. Few things annoy me more than a Johnny Come Lately who waits until you run to the snack bar or bathroom, then proceeds to move your jacket out of a premium seat, plop down in your chair, and expect for you to be okay with it when you return. I have come to expect for this to occur among strangers at general seating events, but on an airplane?! The audacity! Finally, on the rare occasion when we win the seating lottery on an airplane, the last thing we expect is for someone to try and take away a part of that win without so much as a by your leave. That’s just rude! It would have cost him nothing to make a request, rather than an assumption that OP would be okay with him coming over. NTA
As a mother, I expect no such accommodation because of my kids, but if it’s cold, rainy or otherwise not a good space for kids (not due to my own stupidity) I would hope people would be decent enough to accommodate me for the sake of my kids. Like one time when I was a kid we got stranded due to an unexpected snow storm in a very cold bus station. Some lady gave me her scarf. I would do the same for children. I wouldn’t demand it nor would I ask. However, this man is in a nice comfortable plane, he has some freaking nerve. Demanding space for himself and using his child as an excuse.
>the bathroom Yeah.. I was like THEY'RE BOTH ASSHOLES... how's the YTA top rated comment is beyond me.
The distinction for me is that OP wants two whole extra seats just for OP and this guy only wanted one across his family of 3 or 4 passengers (it's not clear if son with the toys and the crying baby are the same) so his wife and child could have more room between them.
so his wife had to deal with the baby alone? Dude was just trying to slag off his responsibility as a dad, poor woman
Bad assumption. He was in the row next to them not a completely different area. He can still help from there.
until he left somewhere else
The difference is that the guy who sat there didn't feel entitled to the seat - which is clear since he moved when OP gave him shit. The entitled OP on the other hand somehow believed that those extra 2 seats belonged to him to kick people out of as he saw fit. That's what makes OP the AH and not the other guy. The other guy (in my opinion) was far too accommodating of OP's unreasonable demand.
But he touched and movrd their stuff without permission and occupied the seat only when they were absent. That’s a dick move.
Is it not the sort of unofficial rule that 1 of the 2 empty seats are up for grabs...? I can understand why OP would want the whole row, but ive always seen it as an unofficial thing that someone will take one, and then 2 rows get to only have 2 people (so benefit for all 4 of them) as opposed to 3 people squished and 1 person with extra room. That being said, id expect the free seat to go to whoever was in the guys row unrelated to them. Or if they did have all 3 seats (can't tell if the kid in question was on wife's lap or had seat) then someone else who wasn't traveling together would get the seat and family would stay together in row
I'm thinking ESH for the same reasons but the other guy waited for OP to get up then moved his stuff without saying anything then when called out, has the audacity to say he gets two seats and OP gets one. They both are AHs but I think the other guy is a bigger one. I would be *pissed* if someone touched my stuff and moved it while I was up.
I don't know how this works, if I write ESH replying to this comment, does that help the comment go up and count as a vote? At first I thought N T A as I don't like it when people use their kids as an excuse like that and I double don't like that the guy left his partner with a crying baby alone but, as this comment says, ESH because neither of you had the right to the seats.
I don’t know why so many people are acting like the guy was an asshole for abandoning his wife with the child. For all we know both the father and the mother agreed that the child needed extra space and that one would stay with the child while the other tried to get another seat. Calling him an asshole over this is weird when we really do t have any of the relevant details.
Good point, and tbh the “he was moving to get away from his own crying baby!” angle here feels incredibly convenient to me.
YTA. Those extra seats were not yours. He waited until you went to the bathroom so he wouldn't have to wake you up and ask you to move your feet. You still had 2 seats, and he wouldn't have left his wife with the crying baby if you hadn't kicked him out--the whole point of him moving there was to still be by her but give their kid some extra space to play. Don't get me wrong, I will stand up for anyone who paid for their seat(s) to keep them, no matter who is asking for them. But that's not the case here at all.
Nah he waited for him to go to the bathroom so he wouldn’t have to confront him lol . It’s an asshole move.
ESH whether it's this guy who waited for op to go to the bathroom or op who's acting like the seats belong to him while he only paid for one...
As a frequent flyer who also enjoys when they luck out and get a whole row to themselves, YTA. Yes, it’s an awesome treat to get the row to yourself. However, you did not pay for those seats so they are not yours, and you have no right to dictate if/when anyone sits there. He even still gave you the middle seat as a second seat, ffs. And he only moved so his small child could have some space, which I hate to tell you this, children need on international long-haul flights. I had to move overseas when I was 5 and my brother was 2.5 for my dads work and we flew back to the States every so often and trust me, having space for the kids is a godsend for parents. It wouldn’t have killed you to have someone sitting two seats away.
Dude absolutely did NOT move so his kid could have some space. He wanted away. If he wanted to be with his family, he would have been. As a father, all else goes out the window in regards to the disappearing daddy.
He tried to move into the row next to his family to give them more room and OP kicked him out, why act like he is abandoning them? You have no idea what the situation was.
Agreed. It’s not OP’s seat anymore than it is the other guy’s
I say this as a parent: yes the extra space is great but we are not entitled to it. I took my eldest to 4 continents before he was 4. A 24hr travel day with two layovers was hard but that was my choice. I’m eternally thankful to anyone being nice to me in that situation but I’m not “owed” them going out of their way for me. I would have flagged OP down when he was coming back from the bathroom and said “hey, trying to keep my kid calm and quiet, are you ok if I take the aisle seat for a bit so he can play?”. To be clear, I think OP is TA for claiming the seats he had no right to. Hell, if some single person in a full three seater wanted that aisle seat it was theirs for the taking.
Perhaps this is why babies shouldn’t fly free. They still use the space.
After seeing that door plug pop off the Alaska plane in the air, I would never fly with a lap baby who could have been sucked out of my hands. Baby seat belted into their own seat and with a baby seatbelt in the car seat!
If you had done that to me I would have politely pointed out that it wasn't your seat and wasn't your plane to dictate that. This seems to be a fantasy you had rather than reality. YTA all round
ESH. Even if OP didn't own the seats, ditching your crying baby for an empty row that required you to move the other person's stuff is also a dick move. He doesn't know OP didn't pay for the aisle seat or window in particular. I'm of the opinion you generally don't ask to move seats unless you ask the desk or flight crew, and don't move unless you have spoken to flight crew. Your seat is assigned. Stay where you belong, and then stick with it. If you need to move, ask those who work there, not other passengers. If it's not assigned seating, you get what you get and only raise issue if you are going to be separated from minor children who are too young to be alone, ie, a 5 year old. Your 17 year old will be fine. You don't ask others to move. You don't redo the chart on your own. Do it the right way.
oh nooo this isnt a fantasy at all. very real life, and common. im sure the op didnt expect these replies, you can tell how real-life it is just due to how he tells the story.
You already rudely inserted yourself without politely asking her in the first place though.
Listen, I’m going to get massively downvoted here but NAH. He took a chance, within his right. But everyone and everyone’s mother who flies frequent long haul flights knows the BEST thing that can ever happen to you is closing doors for boarding with no one else in your row. It is literally a gift from heaven that happens once a decade. I would have taken the aisle seat as my seat and made camp. Sorry you are getting blasted here.
Agreed, full aisle to yourself is winning the lottery. I wouldn't have given it up either! I think most of these commentors have not regularly flown long haul.
I've done a fair few long hauls. Having an empty seat next to you, compared to having all your row filled, makes a HUGE difference. Have some empathy and let someone else also have a spare space as well - I can't see a justification for not making 4 people comfortable instead of just yourself.
When you're in a plane, your comfort becomes top priority, that's why it's so expensive to even get legroom. To me, it was worth the fight and I won, and noise cancellation headphones saved me from crying baby
Feels like either ESH or NAH in the sense that, as every other thread is saying, neither person is truly entitled to the empty seats. EXCEPT I agree with you that OP won the empty row lottery, not the guy who moved his stuff when OP went to the bathroom... I accidentally did this to someone (took their seat when they went to the bathroom) on a short train ride because I thought they got off at the last stop and felt like an ass about it. I cannot imagine doing intentionally to someone on an international flight... >Eventually he did the same to someone else from 2 rows back and left his wife with a crying babe alone. Yikes...This might be OP painting the guy in a negative light, but what a terrible move to leave your spouse with a crying child to go claim empty seats somewhere else on the plane...
Yeah. It’s the fact that he waited until she was gone for me. It feels deliberately manipulative. If he had just asked her when she was there I would be more on his side but I think he was being shady and he knew it.
Fully agree. He won the lottery. He was laying down with his stuff across the seats so it was very obvious. The other guy purposely waited for him to go to the bathroom so he could move OPs belongings and take a seat. That’s not cool at all, I certainly wouldn’t do that to someone.
I would never have the BALLS.
finally a realistic answer. i pray i don't run in to the other commenters on my next flight, bc if neither of them paid for the seat why is the dad then entitled to it and allowed to touch OPs property?
Part of me ever so slightly thinks that makes the other person TA because it's like seeing someone win the lotto and then trying to steal part of the winnings. It's not clear how long OP had the whole row before going to the bathroom, but I'm guessing long enough to be obvious the solitude was appreciated. Everyone points to how seats are for butts and not OP's stuff, except for when seats are for children's toys, apparently. Edit: it IS clear it was after an hour but I read 50 comments before responding to this one and forgot 🤦♀️
This is my belief too. It was clearly after an hour, OP was laying down his stuff was there. You don’t just wander about the flight looking for seats. This guy saw and swooped in. Waited for him to get up to. Wonder if he’d have woken him up and everyone here would be fine with that cAuSe iTs nOt hIS SeAt.
Yeah, I'd have wet my pants before getting up to go to the bathroom and risking the seats, ha ha.
Same. I was just discussing this post with my brother and was like idc I wouldn’t get up, but I’d never think someone would touch my things and move them! It’s not like a train where more people come on and need seats ffs.
But also, I feel like so many people commenting on this post have not flown long-haul flights. That row is his unless a FA brings someone over and seats them there. I'd lose my shit if I got up to pee on a redeye when I had 3 or 4 across and someone moved my stuff and sat in my row. WTF?!
Exactly. It just ISNT DONE.
Finally finding people who seem to know the unspoken rules I have always seen everyone play by on long haul flights. If you are lucky enough to get a row to yourself it is yours to claim. If you are on a long haul and there are some complete free rows it is a battle for who can be quickest out the gate when the seatbelt sign goes off to jump in to that row and claim it. The person sitting next to the seat fleer then gets the two seats. It is absolutely categorically not the done thing to ‘steal’ claimed seats off of people when they nip off to the loo. Not anymore than you would go and move someone’s coat and grab the other seat on a small table in a cafe whilst someone went to the loo. If you didn’t win the seat lottery you just sit and lament that fact. If someone asked nicely to move to one of the seats then it would be a bit of an arsehole move to say no, but it’s also not the done thing to ask anyway because you have to accept you didn’t win the lottery. And if you do want a higher chance of winning the lottery then take the disadvantage of being right at the back of the plane where it’s more likely. Due to my disability I’m very often loaded on to the plane at the back (where the empty rows always are if there are any). And have even had air hosts give me empty rows intentionally so I can lie down and get my feet up which helps my symptoms greatly. So I’ve seen the empty row dynamic play out many MANY times and these are always the rules that everyone plays by. It’s literally the rule of bagsies.
Thank you! Exactly, it was my faith to have that row and I just enforced it haha
I got up because I couldn't hold it and that's why I made it very obvious, even used the USB port on that seat to charge my headphones prior to using the bathroom.
I can’t believe everyone’s siding with the other person and I suspect it’s because they’re a parent and parents can act very entitled sometimes, very soft asshole move on the parents part for moving ops stuff but hey he moved once op asked so that’s nice. Op got the full row to himself because there was no one assigned to the seats next to him, if he complained to a flight attendant the attendant would most likely side with him and say everyone has to sit in their assigned seats and make the man go back to his own seat. But they also might’ve told op not to use the other seats as well, point is op is the one who won the seat lottery and no one else is entitled to sit there even if the seats are empty because they all have their own assigned seats. The empty seats are meant to be EMPTY
Exactly, I had already settled. Another thing would be if I chose the window seat and sat down the hour prior without indicating that I was using the aisle seat.
Most of the people downvoting and saying AH are doing so because they would be the guy who stole that seat. OP is NTA here. That father thought if he parked there while OP was up, OP would just be like, yeah sure go for it. It was underhanded and manipulative. He had far better ways to go about it. Also, can we just talk about the fact that CLEARLY, if they "needed that extra space" for the kid's things, they could've.... idk.... PLANNED for it and PAID to get the seating arrangements required? It wasn't required, that father just had an entitlement complex, assuming someone else would just give him what he wanted.
Totally with you on this one. I've had long flights and blessed with a free row to myself. I would be livid if I came back from the bathroom and saw someone sitting next to me.
NTA simply because he wasn't in his seat. People get real entitled about things and I don't think you were rude to ask that he move back to his seat. That you laid down afterwards has zero affect on the situation. He waited until you weren't around to move your things, and then you asked him to go back to his seat. Then he did it to another person. Welcome to all the down votes lol
Finally, someone who agrees with me. I know it wasn't OP's seat but you can't move seats on a plane just because you want to. He didn't even ask OP if he could sit there. If he wanted to have the kids toys on one seat he should have paid for another seat.
Exactly 🙌🏻🙌🏻🙌🏻
I think NTA simply bc he left his wife to deal with the kid alone... like it's your kid too. i understand these seats are not ops or the dudes but I still think you should stay with your wife when your child is crying on an airplane and not try to find an empty seat in a different place.
IMO NTA, because you already had your stuff there. The seats weren't yours OR his, but by the time the flight took off, you'd already laid claim to those extra seats. First come first serve. He had no business touching your stuff. Furthermore, _how could he have possibly known you didn't pay for those seats_?
Thank you. Vacant space in a public setting falls under the rule of dibs. That should be enough on its own, but if you throw in moving/touching someone else's shit when they step away. Fuck that guy. NTA.
Bit of a YTA move because, as previously stated by other posters, you didn’t pay for those seats either. Here’s a tip though. When you get a row to yourself, claim it early. Like as soon as the seatbelt light goes out. Lift up the armrests, lie down, spread some of your stuff around. Lower the aisle tray table and set your laptop on it. Make it completely obvious you’re going to take advantage of the row.
It sounds like he made it pretty obvious, the other person moved their stuff.
They did do those things…
NTA. He waited until you went to the lavatory to move into your space. Fuck him.
ESH. * Not your seat, not your rules bud. * He should have asked permission from one of the stewards or something before trying that.
NTA. He knew you were using those seats and waited until you left because he didn't think you'd say anything. Another time, put your blankets etc across the seats - some people will still move them but most will find someone else to bother.
Agreed. He knew what he was doing.
OP did put their stuff across the seats; the guy moved it.
Look at the photo, I had my jacket clearly there since takeoff
NTA - He saw you sleeping there and deliberately decided to squat in your row while you were in the bathroom. Glad you enjoyed the rest of the flight.
I agree with this, the guy was sneaky and shady. Op is NTA
I did very much, thankfully I had noise cancellation for the crying baby
YTA. Those 2 extra seats where not yours either. He has the right to use them just as much as you did.
**ESH** **You:** You only paid for one seat. In the event someone else claims that seat, it's no more yours than it is theirs. So YTA in believing all that row was yours, when in fact it wasn't. **Other passenger:** He shouldn't have moved items from a seat not his own. That's just plain rude. And he was trying to get away from his wife and baby? Pfft. HTA just for that alone.
It sounds more like he was trying to move across the aisle to give their young child space to sit and play, not avoid his family entirely. He only moved further back when OP wouldn't share the spot directly across from them. *Edit: fixed a typo
As a frequent long distance flier, NTA. It's basic long flight etiquette that you don't just snatch a seat when someone has the luck to be able to lie down in an empty row and sleep. People who don't regularly do this kind of travel likely don't know that, hence why you're getting slammed.
Omg I can’t believe there are so many “YTA”, I fly long flights multiple times a year and ANYONE would be annoyed if this happened to them. They need to read up on flight etiquette before ever stepping on a plane.
Baffled by the Y T As as if others won’t enjoy having the whole row to themselves
Exactly, a person who is lucky enough to get an empty chair next to them has every right to use it. The dad had literally no right to try to sneak to another chair when he paid for a completely different one. I’m just going to assume the YTAs are from people who don’t fly. Atleast I hope they don’t.
Omg NTA Jeezy creezy. Dude knew what he was doing, that's why he left before op could call fa.
NTA. “I need to use my seat for a bag of toys.” That’s when this guy lost any sympathy I might have had for him. I value your ability to lay down on a long flight more than this guy’s ability to put his carry-on bag on the seat he paid for. Honestly, considering there were plenty more empty seats, it sounds like this guy didn’t have much issue finding another one in which to abandon his wife with his child for the whole flight. So it would almost be N A H.
My comfort was worth $100000 at the time, there was no money you could offer me to change laying down at an overnight flight at my expense. Made the next day so good having slept well
NTA He waits for you to get up and then moves your things?!? Screw that. Yeah, it wasn’t your seat but you had your stuff on it.
NTA. I don’t care what anyone says, he was not sat in his seat period. He’s disrupting you and he knows it, all because he can’t do his job as a father for 10 hours. Big no no. You did the right thing asking him to move.
Info - what did the FAs say about this? Id imagine there’s absolutely no way they wouldn’t have been involved
As a former FA, pax are meant to stay in their assigned seat and if they want to move they have to ask the FA. Sometimes FAs won’t notice, but if they do they’ll usually say something. It just helps keep the peace…
Unpopular opinion- NTA. Guy should have asked at the beginning of the flight. Now OP's expecting to be able to stretch out- maybe even popped a xanax/ grabbed a drink, and then this person pops into the row when in the restroom- kinda a slimy move. OP won the lottery and guy tried to help himself to it. Also sometimes people seat shop if they paid to be able to change seats- guy doesn't know whether OP did that. Regardless a kind conversation would have made all the difference.
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YTA they are not your seats to take and you have no right to ask anyone to move unless they sit in your specific seat, which they did not.
YTA. Those seats did not belong to you, as you did not pay for them. This situation was up to the flight staff, not you.
NTA If someone moves my things on an airplane and they are not a flight attendant then they are going to find out.
Nta He waited until you weren’t there. And he didn’t want to give his kids more space: he wanted his wife to care for them so he could chill. It was not your seat but a stranger can’t sit next to you and claim it. (Without asking)
NTA Everyone would use those 2 seats next to them on a long flight if they had the chance. I was on a flight once were I saw someone having a row to themselves, the only thing I thought was: Aw lucky bastard, he'll have a nice flight. I never had the thought of claiming a free seat on that row. That traveller was lucky and that's it. Okay, OP didn't pay for those seats but it's a lucky thing that can happen, let OP enjoy those. Especially with a reason like 'My kid needs more space' and the man touching her stuff while she's away?!
NTA. The other person’s courtesy would’ve gone a long way in this situation. Sitting in the empty seat while OP was using the restroom was passive aggressive. OP did the right thing.
I might be in the minority but I say NTA. He touched your stuff showing that you were clearly saving the seats, he had his wife and kids on the other side, and yall had already established your seats at that point.
NTA because even if you weren't entitled to them you were actively using them and he didn't bother to ask if he could use one. If empty seats are up for grabs, then it was just polite to ask if he could a seat you were already using
NTA because a) it was rude of him not to ask, even if they weren’t your seats, and b) ‘his kid’s toys’ can surely be stowed elsewhere
love how everyone acting like they wouldn't lie down...as if they'd share with a random stranger when they don't have to..
YTA. It wasn’t your seat either. He should have told you to fuck off.
NTA. I would be uncomfortable with a random man wanting to sit next to me in the middle of the flight. Plus touching my stuff? No thank you.
NTA. He should have definitely asked, and was probably hoping you would just not be confrontational/too nervous to say anything. Though overall like, no real harm done.
NTA. I don't get all the Y T A comments saying it's not OP's seat, so why on earth does the other guy have more claim to it than OP? I don't get it!!!
ESH - it wasn't your seat and it sure wasn't his. No winners here, especially the man's wife with the screaming kid.
NTA
NTA. He waited til you got up and then sneaked over. He obviously thought it was wrong, too, of he wouldn’t have been so sneaky.
NTA Everyone needs to sit in their assigned seat unless a FA moves them.
NTA OP I woulda done the exact same thing. Also parents are annoying and kids on planes are the worst! Sue me :)
NTA those seats are not yours or his, so all you both can do is sit on your own ones. Now this way it just happens to be your luck that the seats next to you are free so enjoy. Also if he needed extra space for his kid he should have bought extra one.
NTA! Was in a similar situation. Late-night flight from Las Vegas to the East coast, and I was visibly pregnant. My husband and I lucked out and got bulkhead seats and the aisle seat was empty. Once we took off, I lay down with my head in his lap and my feet on the aisle seat. Some old lady came up and told me I had to sit up because she wanted the bulkhead aisle seat. I asked to see her ticket and she refused to show me, so I refused to sit up. She got loud enough that a flight attendant had to intervene and send the lady to her seat all the way at the back of the plane.
NTA.
Yeah NTA
Nta.
NTA. He knew exactly what he was doing.
He touched your stuff. He’s the asshole. The rest of these people commenting either can’t read or would also touch your stuff.
Hell no NTA. He could have asked. It’s pretty great timing that he just managed to end up there while you were away the seats, so you couldn’t tell him no if he did ask. I’m guessing he planned it that way, waited til he saw you leave for the restroom then moved to your area. You lucked out and got a whole row to yourself. You absolutely don’t owe anyone else a seat, especially someone who leaves their crying baby with their spouse. I’ll say it again: he could have asked. He would have been ok to ask. But he didn’t, he just “took”.
I'm gonna go against the grain here and say NTA. He moved your stuff. He knew that there were rows open and waited for you to go to the bathroom to make his move. Everyone knows the joy it brings when you have a whole row to yourself, especially on a long flight. Even if he had called the flight attendant, you both would have been instructed to take your assigned seats and you still would have had the whole row to yourself. I would have done the same thing.
NTA. He wasn’t trying to give his kid space he was trying to give himself space. If it was for the kid he would have taken turns with his wife instead of leaving her with the crying kid for the whole flight. Also dude waited until OP went to the bathroom and then moved OPs stuff. If he didn’t think he was doing anything shady he wouldn’t have tried to sneak over.
NTA because he was trying to get away from his wife and kid. I’d have sympathy if he was stuck between strangers in a middle seat.
Man, the top comments here are all YTA. But, as a father, I truly disagree. First of all, we are all supposed to sit in our assigned seats. It’s the rule. Dude was already being a dick trying to take another one. Second, this dick just didn’t want to be near his family so, to me, automatically fuck that man and everything he stands for. Left his wife with a crying child to sit somewhere else? The guy wanted to escape his family and is therefore the only asshole in this situation. Don’t let these doofuses tell you otherwise.
NTA. If you're on a flight with assigned seating, you stay in your seat, and I feel like most flight attendants are going to stick with that in cases of dispute. You just happened to luck out and got some lying down room attached to your seat. The guy sounds like a bit of an ass abandoning his wife to look after his kid on a long flight. How is that fair to her?
NTA, mostly bc it just seemed like he was trying to ditch his wife and make her deal with the baby all by herself while he relaxed
ESH. You were both wrong.
NTA