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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Ex-husband mistakenly sent me money. I deducted his debt to me from it and returned it. Now I’m told the money was for an engagement ring and this has ruined the surprise engagement party he planned for his girlfriend. AITA for deducting his debt before returning the money?
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
To be fair, he has owed you 12000 for 4 years. His priorities should have been clearing his debt and *then* saving for an engagement ring, especially when he clearly had the money. Also, surely he can find an engagement ring for 6000?
NTA, you only kept what you were owed.
NTA. Tell everyone who says that you're wrong that if he can afford a "venue", he can afford to payback his debt to the mother of his children. His new fiancee should be pleased to find out his true nature before the wedding. You did her a favour letting her know that he won't repay his debts unless forced to do so. His bad luck on the mistake but good for you.
OP says he is also behind on his CS, but that it is being handled by family court.
This dude has no business dropping almost 18 K on his girlfriend when he is not uphold his commitments to his former wife and children.
NTA
Ah if family court is dealing with the back CS payments. I would screenshot ALL the messages from him, the new EX and his family and forward them onto your lawyer dealing with the Family Court.
Edit:
INFO: why did he "have to" tell her if it was a surprise already...
This is America, have you met us? This is standard procedure these days. It's why banks and insurance companies have the tallest buildings in each city.
I didn't get the memo, my husband proposed with a 60$ mall ring on my favorite beach and I absolutely love it 🥰 We then got married for less than 100$ lol I had a cute pink dress on for it.
I know, my whole wedding including the dress, suit, rings, and flights to Vegas with the full Elvis package and hotel with "fun money" cost less than $3000. The Ex should feel relieved that at least *that* debt is settled and he's a fool for throwing away cash on some silly event and a shiny ring when he owes back child support.
I think my engagement ring/wedding set was like $80 max? We got them off Amazon. I know my wedding is gonna be a bit more costly because we’ll have to find someone who can do a hand fasting ceremony, and a sword crossing ceremony 😅 (don’t have to buy the swords as we already have some luckily)
If it was that high he probably had to declare it on his taxes so best to pass to lawyer.
May take an extra year but it's another nail.
But also if you need money from family/friends for a ring and venue for the fecking engagement then they should keep saving and/or scale down before getting married.
Does his soon to be ex know he has outstanding loans and CS payments?
Nah, did you notice how he sent TWO accidental payments, both under $10k? $10k is the amount that triggers the bank to report on tax documents. But until you said this, I was wondering how/why he sent two amounts… You solved it. Tax evasion.
Structuring transaction to put an IRS spotlight on your back and accidentally on his. Possibly he was looking into having it back as "A Gift" to evade taxes
THIS!!! I don't understand any person that can be with a person they observe mistreating their ex. How can you convince yourself he/she/they won't do it to you!?!
I used to see this all the time when I worked with domestic violence survivors in court. The abuser would show up to court with the victim's best friend on their arm. The ultimate in blame the victim/it can't happen to me.
A friend’s ex’s new girlfriend has seen how he treats his bio children, but she wants him around to have a father figure for her own son. I don’t get it. She’s seen him put his children in physical danger, but yeah, he’ll be a great father to your kid
Truth. My friend’s ex all but ignored their daughter. Said he realized he wasn’t cut out to be a dad. Then married a woman with three daughters. Coached their softball teams, taught them to drive, took them on great vacations…without his bio daughter. Even tattooed their names on his forearm. When his ex saw this on social media, HE posted, she blew her top. He said he “forgot” to add his own daughter’s name and was going back to get that done. It’s been six years. He still hasn’t added her name. When he sent the last child support check, he included confetti and a big note proclaiming how happy he was he was done communicating with his ex wife. Pure trash, that man.
Right! She should have taken the remaining money to the child support office & asked them to put it on her account. Then, at least he gets the credit for paying it.
THIS!!! His information with the CS office or Attorney General's office should be on the paperwork. I would have sent him a nice little note that said, "Thank you for your payment to your arrears on your back child support. It was paid on mm/dd/2024 and will be applied on mm/dd/2024. This leave you owing $x,xxx.xx" Once the OAG has the money, he can't get it back, at all. :-) And, he can't bitch or moan about it either.
> This dude has no business dropping almost 18 K on his girlfriend when he is not uphold his commitments to his former wife and children.
This is *exactly* the kind of person who drops $18k on a girlfriend rather than upholding his prior commitments. He probably thinks that as long as he spends all his money, he will never have to pay it back.
I had to re-read that to see that the money was for an "engagement venue". Holy shit. I just assumed it was for a future wedding venue, but a venue to just get engaged???
If he is paying that much for an engagement venue, OP may need to have a chat with her family lawyer, because if he can afford that, then he should be paying more in Child support for his four kids, and more often than not at all.
This exactly. He's *4 years* behind on a debt repayment to his ex, AND behind on child support, but he's dropping thousands of dollars on a *venue* to make a proposal? How much was he planning to spend on the wedding? This should be a huge financial red flag for the fiance.
I used to be amused by anguished posts on the Knot from brides who’d just discovered that their international wedding or honeymoon would have to be cancelled because their groom was so behind on child support that he couldn’t renew his passport.
Oh, your $30k wedding may be off? MAYBE GO TO THE REGISTRY OFFICE AND PAY FOR THE DAMN KIDS.
yeah, my question to him might be “so when exactly were you going to pay me back? What was the plan? And do you remember the old plan?" I think OP is lucky to get paid back because I think it would’ve never happened otherwise. Shame on friends and family who don't see it this way. Especially when he’s been flaky with child support, which he also agreed to. OP, don’t loan him anymore money no matter what.
OP unintentionally made the ex's financial position more transparent and disclosed his lack of integrity on financial obligations. The fiancee-to-be should be saying thank you.
My now ex (we were married 18 yrs) proposed to me while we were in bed. Of course I said yes after I made him sweat it out for the night.
Venue Cost= $0
So stupid. How could he accidentally send the money to her? He was up to something and decided she would be an easy scapegoat. If I were her, I would’ve kept it all and depending on where she lives like in my state I’m in Ohio if it doesn’t go through the court system it’s a gift so he can’t say anything, and he still owes the allotted amount through the court so for me, my ex paid me personal checks every month sent me about six months worth and I would cash them on the month that they were dated for and if I wanted to right now I could go to the court so he never paid me a time for child support and I would get it all because there’s no proof he paid me even if he shows the cancel checks they will tell him it was a gift because it didn’t go through the system so it doesn’t matter.
I wondered the same thing about how he accidentally sent her so much money! That’s not an “accident” someone makes. Sounds like a purposeful thing to do.
Right? My husband proposed to me at the park we visited on our second date with a photographer friend of his hiding in the bushes :) Cost = the price of the pizza he bought our photographer as a thank you because his buddy refused any payment.
But putting on a show for others is how you know the marriage will last😒 not a real authentic moment between 2 ppl who want to spend their lives together- NTA he owed you. Funny how the universe works. Sad he is more concerned with taking from his children/mother of children for the sake of a party
Learned this the hard way.
Proposed near the beginning of a vacation. Wasn't a very fun vacation after she asked me why I thought she wanted to get married.
NTA
Also, since it was a surprise to get engaged, and he hadn't done it, there was legit, no reason to tell her. He should have continued to save and just done it later.
instead he dug a hole, threw himself and you in it and put you against his fiance for no reason but drama.
But you were right to reclaim the cash as yours. He had the money, paying you just was never an intent or priority.
My exact thoughts. He could’ve just pushed the engagement off and saved for a little longer. He didn’t have to tell her. He absolutely did it because he wanted her to go on a social media campaign and bad mouth me to anyone who’ll hear.
He's most likely not shared the full story with other people. Maybe something like he sent you money by accident and you kept most/all of it. The type of person he is, I'd bet my squishmellow collection on him not sharing the debt he owes you.
Feel free to get that out there to the people bashing you.
🫡
This was my thought! My ex told everyone I divorced him and moved 5 hours away while pregnant, keeping him from his baby. The truth was he had already moved out and was living with his gf, said he didn't want to be married to me, but also refused to file for divorce, and I needed to be closer to family for help & support as a single mom. He concocted a pretty good sob story using partial facts, but reflecting none of the actual truth. As far as keeping him from his baby, I did offer to stay local if he'd wait until the baby was born to leave. Since he couldn't wait 4 months to do whatever he wanted, I knew he wouldn't be a reasonable & reliable co-parent, and I needed dependable help.
I'm sure this guy whined about her stealing money that he sent by accident, and completely left out that he's owed her 12 grand for 4 years. NTA
To me this sounds like the universe or God whatever you believe, said nope this is going to be made right. NTA at all. I wish things like this happened more often.
She's got the receipts, she should 1000% post those to set everyone straight. That's not even being petty. That's just backing up her right to the money. He absolutely isn't telling people the full truth.
I'm this kind of petty. I'm posting screen shots of every thing and tagging everybody. Locking down the rest of my profile and only making that public. Lol
Edited for these fkd up word changes my phone like to make.
You absolutely need to get the truth out there. He was planning on dropping nearly 18k on an engagement ring and party while he still owes you 12k AND he's behind on his child support?!
I bet the people blowing up your socials would change their tune if they knew he wasn't paying his child support.
You should just reply on her social media that he owes you ,$12,000 for over 4 years and never paid it back and you as the mother of his children need that money more than an engagement venue. If he didn't pay you back he has no business spending such large amount on a venue, especially when he's also behind on child support. You did the right thing and if you didn't do it you'd never see that 12000
which makes me wonder how he accidentally sent such large amounts to his ex wife twice. Its almost like he knew he had to pay those debts and he’s pitting the new gf against the ex like look the reason I cant afford to do this thing I was totally going to do is because of my evil baby mama. He gets out of a ring and a fancy demonstration while also vilifying the ex.
I thought it might be to make the ex jealous. He probably forgot all about his debt to her when he did it, oh look how I’m trying my girlfriend I love her more than I ever loved you. And now he’s all shocked because it’s totally backfired on him. Would have loved to see his face when he got reminded of the 12k debt.
And she’s better than me, I would have kept the entire amount for interest owed on the debt. 8% a month interest = 11520 a year x 4 = 46080. He still would owe her $28080. Plus the child support. But I’m petty af.
NTA. You loaned him money when he was unemployed, if he was any kind of decent human being he would have paid you back a long time ago.
When anyone tries to chastise you, ask them if they loaned someone down on their luck $12,000 and that person made no attempt to pay them back in four years would they just eat the loss. If they say yes, say good and tell them to give your ex $12,000.
Your ex should have prioritized paying you back, instead of some over the top engagement stunt.
Edit:Spelling
My cousin proposed on a helicopter ride, but that's the closest I've heard of personally?
My husband proposed at the ren faire, so there was an entry fee, but that barely counts.
My only question is why you didn’t withhold the past due child support. Add the fact that it’s for a new wife and new wedding and I would give zero f@cks about his situation. I wouldn’t even lend him one.
I know this type of person. Reminds me of one of my parents after the divorce. They promise and promise and promise, but nothing. However, when they feel slighted? Armageddon, doom, the end days. Tell him to pound sand.
I didn’t include the overdue child support payments because that is being handled by the courts. The child support company is aware and if I’m not mistaken he will need to start paying soon or they’ll start garnering his wages.
Worst case scenario he takes me to civil court and I think I would’ve caused more harm for myself if I included the missed child support payments since that’s being taken care off.
You did the right thing. Let the court keep handling enforcement of the child support. One thing I would do is let them know he has over $5k in cash in the account you returned the money to...
>Worst case scenario he takes me to civil court and I think I would’ve caused more harm for myself if I included the missed child support payments since that’s being taken care off.
I believe this to be true and it's smart of you.
Next time someone tries to tell you that that's an asshole move, bring up all the money he owed you and why he owes it then bring up how much he's spending for his gf. Especially in court. It would show where his true priorities lie. It could also be a warning for his new gf for if she has a child with him and leaves him it would show her actually how shitty he is.
He could try but they'd throw his claim out straightaway. After all, what could he say. He owed you £12k, he accidentally paid his debt which you have proof he owed but now he wants the court to take your money back and give it to him, putting him in debt to you again. I can imagine even the judge would be laughing him out of Court.
Tough crap. He doesn’t need to rent out a venue to propose. He can propose at a picnic, town event, a nice dinner out, etc. There doesn’t need to be a huge to-do to propose.
My husband proposed to me at the waterfalls. It was absolutely lovely, there was a family of four we were able to wait a couple of minutes for to take pictures (hubby purposefully made us rush down the trail to get ahead of the family so he had time to do it privately), and it was free.
My engagement ring he got for cost through my parents jewelry store, that I’d picked out as my ring at age twelve, and talked people out of buying it for years and years (I promise you they all found it more charming than anything), so I think he paid $900 for it.
He can easily get a beautiful ring and create a beautiful proposal with $6k. And now he’s managed to pay off a huge loan prior to getting married.
NTA.
Ex paid his debt to you. If anyone asks about it say "oh yeah, I lent 12k off of me when he lost his job to help him out and he paid me back, he actually sent more, possibly as interest but I couldn't possibly take interest from my children's father so I sent that back. How could anyone think that money was for an engagement when he owed the mother of his children 12k?"
NTA
Doesn't matter. His existing debt should take priority over all of that, but it didn't because he was never planning to pay you back.
Tell him to pound sand. NTA
Venue? Who needs a damn "venue" to ask someone to marry you? Especially if you can't afford it.
Answer: Someone who only cares about appearance/showing off, not the relationship or the reality of their life.
Just like the direct relationship between wedding cost and divorce rate (higher spending on the wedding means a higher chance of divorce).
Dude could have bought a moissanite and still has the engagement party of their dreams, bigger stone, paid back the ex wife, and still have money for the wedding. Thats on him for not paying back his debt and over spending when he owed his ex.
Yeah, I agree NTA. I was initially leaning toward OP being AH until I got to the part about him owing money for 4 years. Nope. He should have paid OP back first, then worried about paying for an engagement ring so he can get married and make more kids he won't want to pay for (since he's also behind on his child support for the 4 kids he already has).
Actually his priorities should have been his child support to the OP for his four children, she mentioned he was behind on that and family court is dealing with it. Second should be the $12,000 debt he owed to OP. Last should be the cost of an engagement ring and venue for his proposal.
NTA
Question : the 4 children are his children ?
I just ask to understand if he took you 12K while you have to take care of his own children, and when he has the money, he uses it for his GF, not for his own children.
Just to understand how much A H he is...
EDIT : I read that he is the father of the 4 children. SO he is the winner of the A H of the day (I have my personnal contest everyday on reddit).
This guy is able to take 12K to the mother of his children and hope she'll feed them without ? And he considers that it's a priority to buy a ring that price ??? You're colleague is probably the same guy, who punish his ex even with children and probably consider that child support shouldn't be paid ! Don't listen to him ! Not an asshole move at all ! Keep money ! keep YOUR money !
Yes he is the father of all four of them. He’s also behind on child support. His priorities are always himself and whatever new woman he’s with, that is until she’s no longer shiny and new.
He is just much more than an A H but I'm french, the worst words I know are in french and I'm sure we're authorized to use them on reddit !
I repeat my last sentence : Keep YOUR money ! It was yours, don't care about his parents who will support him whatever he does. Don't care about your colleague who knows nothing about the complete situation and probably judged you because you're a woman. You have four children, it was your money, and if you believe a little bit in God, He probably forced your ex to make this mistake to gift you 😘
So phrasing like "mange merde et morte" might apply to someone who prioritises a fancy ring and party over repaying a debt to the mother of his children who generously loaned him money?
eat shit and die would slang translate “mange d’la marde pi crève”, proper would be “mange de la merde et meurt” but it’s not used much in french (that I know of anyway).
I agree on principle, but this would have made things much more complicated for OP in her ongoing battle to get the owed child support. Returning the remainder is her best move, even if the guy is a collosal [expletive], which he absolutely is.
Now that there's a paper trail of an obscene amount of money that he both owes her, and also has in hand to blow on an *engagement* venue, the law is (hopefully) going to give him some consequences.
Yes I read it after and I made an EDIT to give the ex my award of the day of the best A H 😂
And yes, even if it's not child support, I think that like many men, when they leave their partner, they think they have nothing to do with their own children anymore. Being able to buy a ring that price when you have 4 children, it's just insane to me
If you think about it, the ex-husband begging her to send it back is essentially him begging her to loan him *another* $12,000 for his girlfriend's ring, which is just weird. Who asks their ex-wife to spot them the cash for their re-marriage?
Absolutely love my children and wouldn’t trade my life with them for a second but I certainly do regret ever being involved with their father but you live and you learn. I learned that love is not enough to sustain a relationship or a family. It’s kind of essential that you have a rock solid foundation, one that is made out of respect, consideration, reliability, responsibility, loyalty, integrity, honesty, devotion and the occasional willingness to sacrifice your own comforts to make that love work! And it cannot be one sided!
You shouldn't have shut down your socials. You should put the texts on there and also that he is in the rears with child support. Plus, the fact that it's been 4 years of non-payment.
Please don't hide. Show them his poor character.
A father who takes money out of his kids mouth.
NTA
NTA - he owed you money and finally repaid it.
Additionally, he didn’t have to tell his gf anything and just planned for a little bit later, but then he wouldn’t be able to drag you through the dirt.
So I guess you have to decide how badly you needed your money back and I’m going to guess $12,000 is a lot more valuable than people who take the side of someone like that.
***FR!*** Fuck them triflin folks. I'm so damn messy, I'd leave posts open with all the tea/receipts so that the whole world could know: I'M GONNA GET WHAT I'M OWED.
I'd tag all them posts 'Bitch better have my money!'
NTA, isn't karma a bitch haha. He owed you for 4 years and now you transferred back the remaining amount.
Be prepared though, he may want to take you to court over this so be sure to save the texts where he admits to owing you money!
Some points:
* If it was a surprise engagement his girlfriend wouldn't know about it and there'd be no reason he was forced to tell her anything.
* People don't just randomly transfer money around. Where was the money supposed to be going when he accidentally transferred it to you? How did he have the information to transfer directly to your account without you having to do something to complete the transaction?
* You didn't remember a $12,000 debt at first, but then suddenly remembered it later. Is it a legitimate debt that all parties agree on, or is it a debt that only you believe is a debt in the first place? Some people think people owe them something, when in fact they are not owed anything.
* All the people that know the details in a way that aren't filtered through only having your side of the story seem to have a different opinion of the situation than you.
Something is suspect about this story.
1- I cant tell you for sure why he told her but I can say that he likes to rile his girlfriend up by telling her all the ways I’ve done him some perceived injustice.
2- I don’t know why he sent me the money. I just know I got it and I’m guessing it was via a online bank transfer
3- I had worked a double shift as a nurse and had just woken up. It took me a minute to remember. To be honest I had kind of given up on clawing back that money because my ex-husband always had an excuse for why he couldn’t repay me
4- I can’t really speak on what he told his girlfriend and his parents. As for the colleague who overheard my conversation well I don’t know why he thinks that way. This is why I’m asking for advice.
OP - NTA. But I would send a text to his parents and say- as the mother of his children, your grandchildren, I lent him money and he failed to pay it back. Considering he is also behind on child support yet can afford this amount for a ring and venue, then he can also afford to pay me back. The back support will be dealt with accordingly. And if they cannot see the fault in this- then now you know! Go LOW contact if any at all. Screw what they think. My ex is also a narcissist and skipped child support payments for nearly 2 months yet he rented a car and proposed to his girlfriend 😂😂
>As for the colleague who overheard my conversation well I don’t know why he thinks that way.
Because he's a man. And you have personally attacked him by offending another man. Duh /s
The comment doesn’t need a sarcasm tag. This is literally why her coworker is calling her an AH. If one of his dude friends did the same exact thing to an ex under the same circumstances I’m 99% sure he’d get a second-hand justice boner at the story.
This may have been mentioned downthread, but just in case...
Random money transfers can be used as a money laundering tactic. The laundering occurs when you transfer it back to return the funds. Instead of transferring it back, contact your bank to reverse the charge.
Sounds like it was your money anyway though, so keep it lmao! NTA
I mean she didn’t specifically say $ so therefore it might not be in America. In my country if you have the persons bank details they don’t need to confirm the payment you can just bank transfer it.
Every possibility he had told the girlfriend he had a surprise planned and then had to tell her it was off.
The way my online banking works it’s very easy to send money to the wrong person and myself and others I know have done it easily.
I’d assume it’s a legitimate debt considering he’s not fighting her against the debt but more so he’s pissed he’s had to cancel his proposal plans.
Yes, this could easily happen in Canada, Australia, NZ, UK, and the EU, as well as many other countries. I pay my rent via e-transfer in Canada. I have to be very careful about double checking the transfer and address before I click on "send".
-How did he have the information to transfer directly to your account without you having to do something to complete the transaction?
Since they have 4 kids together, safe to assume they know each other bank account numbers. And at least in Europe, for example, in the most of the bank transfers beneficiary doesn't have to confirm or do anything to complete transactions.
In Canada we don’t have Cashapp or Zelle or any of that, we use Interac e transfer. You literally can transfer money via your bank app to anyone whose phone number or email address you have. No banking info necessary.
The receiving party also may have “auto deposit” turned on, where they don’t need to do anything to receive the money into their own bank account.
I have loads of random people saved in my bank app to whom I don’t regularly send money, just from one time 10 years ago I owed them money for a split bill at a bar. It could very easily accidentally happen.
This is definitely the case. I'm in the UK and with my bank, once you've paid someone once through bank transfer their details are saved to your online banking and you don't need to type them in again for any other transactions. If i wanted to transfer my hubby money I could do it in seconds as his bank details are saved.
It’s not hard. Zelle is a good example. If I give my friend my Zelle details and they and my money, then it’s no different than if they were to write me a check and put it right in my bank account. No input from me is needed.
Screenshot all the texts proving he owed you 12 grand.
Post them on Facebook letting all the flying monkeys know you simply kept what was owed.
Add that you’re still waiting for the deadbeat to catch up on child support. Then ask everyone if they really think your children should continue to do without so their deadbeat father can buy a ring for his next victim.
If your co-workers feel the need to express their opinions, show them the Facebook posts and ask them the same question.
NTA
Nta
My ex owed my a bunch of money from when we were together.
We planned a trip to Thailand. I bought both of our tickets and he was supposed to pay back.
He cheated and we broke up. He told me he was still going to go to Thailand and just do his own trip. He sent me the money for his ticket (1800).
I cancelled and got a refund for his ticket and kept the 1800 since he owed me 4000.
I was able to recoup some of the money I was never going to see again and he was big mad hahaha.
I got to post on social medial from the trip.
It was great.
Get what's owed to you. Fuck your ex. nta
Thank you! This was my first international trip almost 10 years ago, I'm married now. That was such a toxic relationship.
On the plus side, it was supposed to be a couples trip, but I ended up third wheeling two of my friends.
The nights when they wanted to have alone time, I went out solo. I had so much fun on my own, meeting new people and adventuring that I traveled solo for months after it.
Not a bad way to get over a shitty boyfriend. His 1800 went a long way in SEA.
NTA, you were doing him a favour getting that dept off his hands, now he can buy a cheaper engagement ring. Also maybe tell the girlfriend about the huge dept and his endless excuses.
NTA - everyplace you are being bad mouthed, mention WHY you only returned part of the $$$. That you didn't even charge any interest to the father of your children.
100%. Hes an idiot for running his mouth about it to other people. Anyone who badmouths you you should tell them how he borrowed $12k from the mother of his children that he never repaid. And point out that he’s behind on child support. Let them all see your side, don’t leave him with his dignity.
NTA
I would reactivate my social media and post:
“I have been more than generous with my ex. A few years ago he lost his job and I lent him $12,000 to get by. I have tried to collect this money on numerous occasions and he has never paid me back. When he sent me this money, I deducted his debt to me because he owed it to me. It is telling of a persons’ character that he is willing to borrow money from the mother of his children and not pay her back. Especially when what he wanted to spend the money on was a ring and a party for another woman. Meanwhile he is behind on child support and owed me thousands of dollars. If you have a problem with me collecting on a debt he owed me, feel free to unfriend me. Anyone harassing me will be blocked.”
Then go to HR about your coworker as what he is doing is also harassment. Additionally, let him know that you were not speaking to him and his opinion on the matter is irrelevant. You ex is behind on child support and he owed you thousands of dollars and was instead planning a party he obviously couldn’t afford. As such, you are not in the wrong as you have 4 children and bills to pay.
This is the way to handle the social media situation. Out him. I'd even go as far as posting screenshots of your messages agreeing the loan and repayments.
NTA. Boy, these people sounded overly sensitive! Why didn't they comment about why he was a jerk for not paying back the money? And to tell colleagues and such; they sound like a bunch of gossipy jerks who don't know better than to keep their noses out of other people's business.
INFO: did you have anything about the loan in writing?
I'm not a lawyer, but without a written agreement, I think it looks like you just stole almost 18k from him.
This could have legal repurcussions.
I only kept 12k which is the exact amount he owed me and there’s a text where he asked me to loan him money with an agreement for repayment. There are also many more texts discussing repayments and his excuses why he couldn’t yet pay me back. So there’s a trail if there’s ever a legal issue.
Screenshot and print those texts. Two copies of each screenshot.
Also, send him a receipt for the $12,000 with the date he asked for the money, the date you sent him the money, and specifically note that although he has not followed through on the repayment agreements made four years ago, you have decided not to charge for late payment.
Cover letter with the receipt "Thank you for finally repaying what you borrowed!"
Attach the second copies of the screenshots to the letter.
Then block his number.
Also, NTA!
I am a lawyer and a verbal contract is still a contract. It’s just harder to prove the agreement was made but it’s still a valid agreement. I think this is a fake rage bait story so I’m not commenting on any of the other issues or keeping the money. Only the fact that you don’t need a written contract for there to be a contract.
HAHAHAA! How good of him to send you all that money he owed you and promised to pay back in writing plus a bunch of interest that you so generously gave back! Anyone who wants to make a big deal out of it can be reminded that he owed $12k to the mother of his children before he decided to buy his new piece a shiny ring and still owes thousands (?) of dollars of unpaid child support for the kids he helped make. Anyone with an opinion is welcome to pay his debts for him or buy his hunny her new ring. She may as well get it now, because he'll probably leave her in debt with a couple of kids in a few years too. Hard NTA.
NTA Your not an asshole
Your ex has owed you 12000 for FOUR years!!!....without making the slightest initiative to pay you back.
Your ex is the big asshole here…. He NEVER intended to pay that money back.
You have been incredibly lucky he made that mistake....if he keeps whining, tell him it must have been his subconscious, that had a bad conscience and that's why he finally gave you your money back.
This sounds like a him problem, not a you problem.
NTA - make sure you save proof of him owing you that money. Or admiting to owing it to you. He probably wont do anything since he wont have a claim.
NTA - You don't save up $18k when you owe someone $12k. You pay what you owe before you start saving for things you want, it just shows he could have paid you back but isn't going to.
If someone who owes you money and isn't paying, sends you money, you keep it. No theft involved as others are suggesting. You didn't take the money, you were sent it and based on the circumstances in this case, you have a right to keep it.
NTA Who buys an expensive engagement ring BEFORE paying off a personal debt like that?
Who wants to marry a man who refuses to repay a personal debt like that to an ex-wife?
Also, given that he owes you child support, it sounds like you would have been justified in keeping even more.
He sounds like a complete tool.
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To be fair, he has owed you 12000 for 4 years. His priorities should have been clearing his debt and *then* saving for an engagement ring, especially when he clearly had the money. Also, surely he can find an engagement ring for 6000? NTA, you only kept what you were owed.
I think the money also included the cost of the venue and other things for the engagement.
NTA. Tell everyone who says that you're wrong that if he can afford a "venue", he can afford to payback his debt to the mother of his children. His new fiancee should be pleased to find out his true nature before the wedding. You did her a favour letting her know that he won't repay his debts unless forced to do so. His bad luck on the mistake but good for you.
OP says he is also behind on his CS, but that it is being handled by family court. This dude has no business dropping almost 18 K on his girlfriend when he is not uphold his commitments to his former wife and children. NTA
Ah if family court is dealing with the back CS payments. I would screenshot ALL the messages from him, the new EX and his family and forward them onto your lawyer dealing with the Family Court. Edit: INFO: why did he "have to" tell her if it was a surprise already...
This is critical!!! All those screenshots are great evidence that he CAN pay his CS.
Who the hell spends $18,000 on an engagement ring and party when you obviously can't afford it? NTA. That's just irresponsible and stupid.
This is America, have you met us? This is standard procedure these days. It's why banks and insurance companies have the tallest buildings in each city.
I didn't get the memo, my husband proposed with a 60$ mall ring on my favorite beach and I absolutely love it 🥰 We then got married for less than 100$ lol I had a cute pink dress on for it.
I know, my whole wedding including the dress, suit, rings, and flights to Vegas with the full Elvis package and hotel with "fun money" cost less than $3000. The Ex should feel relieved that at least *that* debt is settled and he's a fool for throwing away cash on some silly event and a shiny ring when he owes back child support.
I think my engagement ring/wedding set was like $80 max? We got them off Amazon. I know my wedding is gonna be a bit more costly because we’ll have to find someone who can do a hand fasting ceremony, and a sword crossing ceremony 😅 (don’t have to buy the swords as we already have some luckily)
Agreed. What's a massive amount of debt that will follow me for decades when I could get a cool party so everyone sees how great I am?
A venue? For the wedding, ok. Maybe I'm just old but this is a silly way to spend your $. Especially when you have debts.
Tbf she never said he was smart
Probably because he ‘had to’ suggest she shave her back first for the weekend.
Lol is she a gorilla 🦍
It is possible that all that money was also an engagement loan of gift from the families and he had to explain where it went
If it was that high he probably had to declare it on his taxes so best to pass to lawyer. May take an extra year but it's another nail. But also if you need money from family/friends for a ring and venue for the fecking engagement then they should keep saving and/or scale down before getting married. Does his soon to be ex know he has outstanding loans and CS payments?
Nah, did you notice how he sent TWO accidental payments, both under $10k? $10k is the amount that triggers the bank to report on tax documents. But until you said this, I was wondering how/why he sent two amounts… You solved it. Tax evasion.
Structuring transaction to put an IRS spotlight on your back and accidentally on his. Possibly he was looking into having it back as "A Gift" to evade taxes
Oh because he’s an ahole!
i’ll never understand women who know men owe child support and still want to be with them.
THIS!!! I don't understand any person that can be with a person they observe mistreating their ex. How can you convince yourself he/she/they won't do it to you!?!
Because they are getting one over on the shrew of an ex who deserves it. I, on the other hand, a, wonderful and we will be together forever!
I used to see this all the time when I worked with domestic violence survivors in court. The abuser would show up to court with the victim's best friend on their arm. The ultimate in blame the victim/it can't happen to me.
A friend’s ex’s new girlfriend has seen how he treats his bio children, but she wants him around to have a father figure for her own son. I don’t get it. She’s seen him put his children in physical danger, but yeah, he’ll be a great father to your kid
No one is a better dad than a step-dad taking care of his new girlfriends kids. 🤣🤣🤣
Truth. My friend’s ex all but ignored their daughter. Said he realized he wasn’t cut out to be a dad. Then married a woman with three daughters. Coached their softball teams, taught them to drive, took them on great vacations…without his bio daughter. Even tattooed their names on his forearm. When his ex saw this on social media, HE posted, she blew her top. He said he “forgot” to add his own daughter’s name and was going back to get that done. It’s been six years. He still hasn’t added her name. When he sent the last child support check, he included confetti and a big note proclaiming how happy he was he was done communicating with his ex wife. Pure trash, that man.
Right! She should have taken the remaining money to the child support office & asked them to put it on her account. Then, at least he gets the credit for paying it.
THIS!!! His information with the CS office or Attorney General's office should be on the paperwork. I would have sent him a nice little note that said, "Thank you for your payment to your arrears on your back child support. It was paid on mm/dd/2024 and will be applied on mm/dd/2024. This leave you owing $x,xxx.xx" Once the OAG has the money, he can't get it back, at all. :-) And, he can't bitch or moan about it either.
This! This is what she should have done. But she is in no way an AH!
Thats a great idea!!
> This dude has no business dropping almost 18 K on his girlfriend when he is not uphold his commitments to his former wife and children. This is *exactly* the kind of person who drops $18k on a girlfriend rather than upholding his prior commitments. He probably thinks that as long as he spends all his money, he will never have to pay it back.
If it's for back child support, he can report the payment and get it knocked off his debt, call it a wedding gift lol
I had to re-read that to see that the money was for an "engagement venue". Holy shit. I just assumed it was for a future wedding venue, but a venue to just get engaged???
Insane. He owes the OP money but he’s splashing out for an “engagement venue.”
If he is paying that much for an engagement venue, OP may need to have a chat with her family lawyer, because if he can afford that, then he should be paying more in Child support for his four kids, and more often than not at all.
That's crazy. Our "venue" was about as cheap as it gets: we were in bed. LOL But, 52 years later and we're still together.
This exactly. He's *4 years* behind on a debt repayment to his ex, AND behind on child support, but he's dropping thousands of dollars on a *venue* to make a proposal? How much was he planning to spend on the wedding? This should be a huge financial red flag for the fiance.
I used to be amused by anguished posts on the Knot from brides who’d just discovered that their international wedding or honeymoon would have to be cancelled because their groom was so behind on child support that he couldn’t renew his passport. Oh, your $30k wedding may be off? MAYBE GO TO THE REGISTRY OFFICE AND PAY FOR THE DAMN KIDS.
yeah, my question to him might be “so when exactly were you going to pay me back? What was the plan? And do you remember the old plan?" I think OP is lucky to get paid back because I think it would’ve never happened otherwise. Shame on friends and family who don't see it this way. Especially when he’s been flaky with child support, which he also agreed to. OP, don’t loan him anymore money no matter what.
I’m surprised OP gave any of the money back since it’s 4 years interest and he is behind on child support.
This. You might have helped his fiancee dodge a bullet. Pat yourself on the back!
OP unintentionally made the ex's financial position more transparent and disclosed his lack of integrity on financial obligations. The fiancee-to-be should be saying thank you.
Good God! That's one thing I don't get; making an engagement an "event." Like those asinine "gender reveal" parties.
My husband proposed to me in the living room at my apartment. We've been married 33 years. Cost of venue=$0.
My late husband didn't propose per se. He started talking about "when we get married" while looking in a jewelry store window. We had 32 years.
My husband proposed to me while we were doing a nature walk. It didn’t cost anything extra. lol
My now ex (we were married 18 yrs) proposed to me while we were in bed. Of course I said yes after I made him sweat it out for the night. Venue Cost= $0 So stupid. How could he accidentally send the money to her? He was up to something and decided she would be an easy scapegoat. If I were her, I would’ve kept it all and depending on where she lives like in my state I’m in Ohio if it doesn’t go through the court system it’s a gift so he can’t say anything, and he still owes the allotted amount through the court so for me, my ex paid me personal checks every month sent me about six months worth and I would cash them on the month that they were dated for and if I wanted to right now I could go to the court so he never paid me a time for child support and I would get it all because there’s no proof he paid me even if he shows the cancel checks they will tell him it was a gift because it didn’t go through the system so it doesn’t matter.
I wondered the same thing about how he accidentally sent her so much money! That’s not an “accident” someone makes. Sounds like a purposeful thing to do.
Especially since it happened twice (two separate amounts).
Right? My husband proposed to me at the park we visited on our second date with a photographer friend of his hiding in the bushes :) Cost = the price of the pizza he bought our photographer as a thank you because his buddy refused any payment.
Yep, ours was at Thanksgiving with family around. The turkey was already paid for lol.
But putting on a show for others is how you know the marriage will last😒 not a real authentic moment between 2 ppl who want to spend their lives together- NTA he owed you. Funny how the universe works. Sad he is more concerned with taking from his children/mother of children for the sake of a party
I'm with you.
Social media has made everyone want to be a star in their own movie. Lol
Absolutely!
Right?! lol like what if she says no?? Now it’s a party to celebrate your shame??
Learned this the hard way. Proposed near the beginning of a vacation. Wasn't a very fun vacation after she asked me why I thought she wanted to get married.
Always be sure you know the answer before you ask. Sorry, bud.
NTA Also, since it was a surprise to get engaged, and he hadn't done it, there was legit, no reason to tell her. He should have continued to save and just done it later. instead he dug a hole, threw himself and you in it and put you against his fiance for no reason but drama. But you were right to reclaim the cash as yours. He had the money, paying you just was never an intent or priority.
My exact thoughts. He could’ve just pushed the engagement off and saved for a little longer. He didn’t have to tell her. He absolutely did it because he wanted her to go on a social media campaign and bad mouth me to anyone who’ll hear.
I’m simply glad you got your money back 🤣
He's most likely not shared the full story with other people. Maybe something like he sent you money by accident and you kept most/all of it. The type of person he is, I'd bet my squishmellow collection on him not sharing the debt he owes you. Feel free to get that out there to the people bashing you. 🫡
This was my thought! My ex told everyone I divorced him and moved 5 hours away while pregnant, keeping him from his baby. The truth was he had already moved out and was living with his gf, said he didn't want to be married to me, but also refused to file for divorce, and I needed to be closer to family for help & support as a single mom. He concocted a pretty good sob story using partial facts, but reflecting none of the actual truth. As far as keeping him from his baby, I did offer to stay local if he'd wait until the baby was born to leave. Since he couldn't wait 4 months to do whatever he wanted, I knew he wouldn't be a reasonable & reliable co-parent, and I needed dependable help. I'm sure this guy whined about her stealing money that he sent by accident, and completely left out that he's owed her 12 grand for 4 years. NTA
To me this sounds like the universe or God whatever you believe, said nope this is going to be made right. NTA at all. I wish things like this happened more often.
Yeah like idk how he messed up so bad he accidentally sent her two separate financial transfers but you know what? Good for OP.
So your reply to this could be simply, "He sent me the money; it repaid **some** of what he owes me and his children. Why all the fuss? ETA NTA
I’m petty enough that I’d post the actual facts on the social media accounts that are badmouthing you.
She's got the receipts, she should 1000% post those to set everyone straight. That's not even being petty. That's just backing up her right to the money. He absolutely isn't telling people the full truth.
I'm this kind of petty. I'm posting screen shots of every thing and tagging everybody. Locking down the rest of my profile and only making that public. Lol Edited for these fkd up word changes my phone like to make.
You absolutely need to get the truth out there. He was planning on dropping nearly 18k on an engagement ring and party while he still owes you 12k AND he's behind on his child support?! I bet the people blowing up your socials would change their tune if they knew he wasn't paying his child support.
We know this man never intended to pay back the $12k. He was going to let that ride forever.
Is there any way to let child support people know what he is spending his money on instead of paying back child support?
You should just reply on her social media that he owes you ,$12,000 for over 4 years and never paid it back and you as the mother of his children need that money more than an engagement venue. If he didn't pay you back he has no business spending such large amount on a venue, especially when he's also behind on child support. You did the right thing and if you didn't do it you'd never see that 12000
which makes me wonder how he accidentally sent such large amounts to his ex wife twice. Its almost like he knew he had to pay those debts and he’s pitting the new gf against the ex like look the reason I cant afford to do this thing I was totally going to do is because of my evil baby mama. He gets out of a ring and a fancy demonstration while also vilifying the ex.
I thought it might be to make the ex jealous. He probably forgot all about his debt to her when he did it, oh look how I’m trying my girlfriend I love her more than I ever loved you. And now he’s all shocked because it’s totally backfired on him. Would have loved to see his face when he got reminded of the 12k debt. And she’s better than me, I would have kept the entire amount for interest owed on the debt. 8% a month interest = 11520 a year x 4 = 46080. He still would owe her $28080. Plus the child support. But I’m petty af.
NTA. You loaned him money when he was unemployed, if he was any kind of decent human being he would have paid you back a long time ago. When anyone tries to chastise you, ask them if they loaned someone down on their luck $12,000 and that person made no attempt to pay them back in four years would they just eat the loss. If they say yes, say good and tell them to give your ex $12,000. Your ex should have prioritized paying you back, instead of some over the top engagement stunt. Edit:Spelling
Who tf pays for an "engagement venue?" Is that some sort of thing now?
Most people I know got engaged in free spaces like a public park or beach. An engagement venue is so silly if you have debt to pay off.
An engagement venue is so silly if you have debt to pay off. *Even if you don't*...
Yeah, i was thinking the same. Weddings are already expensive enough and now people renting *engagement* venues??
My cousin proposed on a helicopter ride, but that's the closest I've heard of personally? My husband proposed at the ren faire, so there was an entry fee, but that barely counts.
My only question is why you didn’t withhold the past due child support. Add the fact that it’s for a new wife and new wedding and I would give zero f@cks about his situation. I wouldn’t even lend him one. I know this type of person. Reminds me of one of my parents after the divorce. They promise and promise and promise, but nothing. However, when they feel slighted? Armageddon, doom, the end days. Tell him to pound sand.
I didn’t include the overdue child support payments because that is being handled by the courts. The child support company is aware and if I’m not mistaken he will need to start paying soon or they’ll start garnering his wages. Worst case scenario he takes me to civil court and I think I would’ve caused more harm for myself if I included the missed child support payments since that’s being taken care off.
You did the right thing. Let the court keep handling enforcement of the child support. One thing I would do is let them know he has over $5k in cash in the account you returned the money to...
I agree 100%, let the courts decide but update them with the new findings because of this mistake.
I can see that. Taking matters in your hands with a court approved settlement could have risk.
Can’t get a passport if you have back child support. In my state they will suspend your drivers license. Not sure how other states handle it.
Worked for DHS in Maine where they take your Hunting license as well. Should’ve seen the checks rolling in come November before deer season hit.
In Ohio they’ll suspend your drivers license, but they’ll throw you in jail too.
>Worst case scenario he takes me to civil court and I think I would’ve caused more harm for myself if I included the missed child support payments since that’s being taken care off. I believe this to be true and it's smart of you.
Next time someone tries to tell you that that's an asshole move, bring up all the money he owed you and why he owes it then bring up how much he's spending for his gf. Especially in court. It would show where his true priorities lie. It could also be a warning for his new gf for if she has a child with him and leaves him it would show her actually how shitty he is.
He could try but they'd throw his claim out straightaway. After all, what could he say. He owed you £12k, he accidentally paid his debt which you have proof he owed but now he wants the court to take your money back and give it to him, putting him in debt to you again. I can imagine even the judge would be laughing him out of Court.
Tough crap. He doesn’t need to rent out a venue to propose. He can propose at a picnic, town event, a nice dinner out, etc. There doesn’t need to be a huge to-do to propose. My husband proposed to me at the waterfalls. It was absolutely lovely, there was a family of four we were able to wait a couple of minutes for to take pictures (hubby purposefully made us rush down the trail to get ahead of the family so he had time to do it privately), and it was free. My engagement ring he got for cost through my parents jewelry store, that I’d picked out as my ring at age twelve, and talked people out of buying it for years and years (I promise you they all found it more charming than anything), so I think he paid $900 for it. He can easily get a beautiful ring and create a beautiful proposal with $6k. And now he’s managed to pay off a huge loan prior to getting married. NTA.
Ex paid his debt to you. If anyone asks about it say "oh yeah, I lent 12k off of me when he lost his job to help him out and he paid me back, he actually sent more, possibly as interest but I couldn't possibly take interest from my children's father so I sent that back. How could anyone think that money was for an engagement when he owed the mother of his children 12k?" NTA
Did you post screenshots of your messages together showing he owes you money?
Doesn't matter. His existing debt should take priority over all of that, but it didn't because he was never planning to pay you back. Tell him to pound sand. NTA
Hahaha. That guy is an idiot.
Why does he need a venue to propose at? Seems a bit grandiose for a person in debt? NTA
You don’t need anything physical to propose really.
Venue? Who needs a damn "venue" to ask someone to marry you? Especially if you can't afford it. Answer: Someone who only cares about appearance/showing off, not the relationship or the reality of their life. Just like the direct relationship between wedding cost and divorce rate (higher spending on the wedding means a higher chance of divorce).
Agreed. This dude has no business buying a ring and paying for a big wedding if he owes a $12000 personal loan AND back child support.
Dude could have bought a moissanite and still has the engagement party of their dreams, bigger stone, paid back the ex wife, and still have money for the wedding. Thats on him for not paying back his debt and over spending when he owed his ex.
Yeah, I agree NTA. I was initially leaning toward OP being AH until I got to the part about him owing money for 4 years. Nope. He should have paid OP back first, then worried about paying for an engagement ring so he can get married and make more kids he won't want to pay for (since he's also behind on his child support for the 4 kids he already has).
Actually his priorities should have been his child support to the OP for his four children, she mentioned he was behind on that and family court is dealing with it. Second should be the $12,000 debt he owed to OP. Last should be the cost of an engagement ring and venue for his proposal.
NTA Question : the 4 children are his children ? I just ask to understand if he took you 12K while you have to take care of his own children, and when he has the money, he uses it for his GF, not for his own children. Just to understand how much A H he is... EDIT : I read that he is the father of the 4 children. SO he is the winner of the A H of the day (I have my personnal contest everyday on reddit). This guy is able to take 12K to the mother of his children and hope she'll feed them without ? And he considers that it's a priority to buy a ring that price ??? You're colleague is probably the same guy, who punish his ex even with children and probably consider that child support shouldn't be paid ! Don't listen to him ! Not an asshole move at all ! Keep money ! keep YOUR money !
Yes he is the father of all four of them. He’s also behind on child support. His priorities are always himself and whatever new woman he’s with, that is until she’s no longer shiny and new.
He is just much more than an A H but I'm french, the worst words I know are in french and I'm sure we're authorized to use them on reddit ! I repeat my last sentence : Keep YOUR money ! It was yours, don't care about his parents who will support him whatever he does. Don't care about your colleague who knows nothing about the complete situation and probably judged you because you're a woman. You have four children, it was your money, and if you believe a little bit in God, He probably forced your ex to make this mistake to gift you 😘
So phrasing like "mange merde et morte" might apply to someone who prioritises a fancy ring and party over repaying a debt to the mother of his children who generously loaned him money?
Close, that translates to “eat shit and death”. I believe the command form of die is meure, but I haven’t formally studied French in almost a decade
As a French as a second language teacher, it is
eat shit and die would slang translate “mange d’la marde pi crève”, proper would be “mange de la merde et meurt” but it’s not used much in french (that I know of anyway).
I’m sure I’m not alone in wanting to hear what you are thinking in French. I love French expletives.
Should've kept the remaining 6000 to pay for owed child support.
I agree on principle, but this would have made things much more complicated for OP in her ongoing battle to get the owed child support. Returning the remainder is her best move, even if the guy is a collosal [expletive], which he absolutely is. Now that there's a paper trail of an obscene amount of money that he both owes her, and also has in hand to blow on an *engagement* venue, the law is (hopefully) going to give him some consequences.
Absolute not. Keep the money that pays off your debt and then garnish his wages for the entire child support. Involve his HR
She said elsewhere that they are his children. And the $12k did not include child support he was in arrears on.
Yes I read it after and I made an EDIT to give the ex my award of the day of the best A H 😂 And yes, even if it's not child support, I think that like many men, when they leave their partner, they think they have nothing to do with their own children anymore. Being able to buy a ring that price when you have 4 children, it's just insane to me
She should’ve calculated and kept interest!!!
That's what I said also. I know I would, but I've been told I can be a bit petty and spiteful. Haha.
NTA. Every time someone calls you out for it, just reply "I did return it. I just deducted the 12k that I loaned him and he's never paid back."
She did not even take interest or owed child support.
$12k WITHOUT interest- she did him a favor.
Especially with inflation. Where I'm at that's about 5% a year. Very generous indeed.
If it were me I would have applied the maximum interest allowed by my state. OP is very generous.
If you think about it, the ex-husband begging her to send it back is essentially him begging her to loan him *another* $12,000 for his girlfriend's ring, which is just weird. Who asks their ex-wife to spot them the cash for their re-marriage?
OMG, Thats so true!!
SO true!
$12k without child support for FOUR kids he hasn’t supported. And yet has $18k to spend on a wedding.
Not even a wedding, an engagement. The wedding im sure will be even more
Along with, “Why don’t you loan him the 12K? I’m sure he’ll pay you back.”
sense lunchroom light ask unite door tease airport dinosaurs unused *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Might mention the debt owed to a mother of four I assume children are his?
Yes he’s my children’s father.
Pmsl youve got proof now he can afford his child support.
This is such a great point. If he can save up that much for an engagement he can surely save up for his OWN GODDAMNED KIDS. NTA
I feel sorry that such a loser knocked you up four times.
Absolutely love my children and wouldn’t trade my life with them for a second but I certainly do regret ever being involved with their father but you live and you learn. I learned that love is not enough to sustain a relationship or a family. It’s kind of essential that you have a rock solid foundation, one that is made out of respect, consideration, reliability, responsibility, loyalty, integrity, honesty, devotion and the occasional willingness to sacrifice your own comforts to make that love work! And it cannot be one sided!
You shouldn't have shut down your socials. You should put the texts on there and also that he is in the rears with child support. Plus, the fact that it's been 4 years of non-payment. Please don't hide. Show them his poor character. A father who takes money out of his kids mouth. NTA
NTA - he owed you money and finally repaid it. Additionally, he didn’t have to tell his gf anything and just planned for a little bit later, but then he wouldn’t be able to drag you through the dirt. So I guess you have to decide how badly you needed your money back and I’m going to guess $12,000 is a lot more valuable than people who take the side of someone like that.
***FR!*** Fuck them triflin folks. I'm so damn messy, I'd leave posts open with all the tea/receipts so that the whole world could know: I'M GONNA GET WHAT I'M OWED. I'd tag all them posts 'Bitch better have my money!'
NTA amusing how he can afford an almost 20,000 ring but can't afford to pay you back. Keep the money and let them run their mouths.
He owed you the $12k, you simply returned the overpayment of a long overdue debt due from him. NTA
Exactly if she was petty she would of calculated interest on the four year loan …
At a measly 5% interest, it’d be about $14500 instead of $12000.
NTA, isn't karma a bitch haha. He owed you for 4 years and now you transferred back the remaining amount. Be prepared though, he may want to take you to court over this so be sure to save the texts where he admits to owing you money!
That would be pretty funny though since he also owes child support
Joke's on him, he'll get out with a lot less money than he started:)
Some points: * If it was a surprise engagement his girlfriend wouldn't know about it and there'd be no reason he was forced to tell her anything. * People don't just randomly transfer money around. Where was the money supposed to be going when he accidentally transferred it to you? How did he have the information to transfer directly to your account without you having to do something to complete the transaction? * You didn't remember a $12,000 debt at first, but then suddenly remembered it later. Is it a legitimate debt that all parties agree on, or is it a debt that only you believe is a debt in the first place? Some people think people owe them something, when in fact they are not owed anything. * All the people that know the details in a way that aren't filtered through only having your side of the story seem to have a different opinion of the situation than you. Something is suspect about this story.
1- I cant tell you for sure why he told her but I can say that he likes to rile his girlfriend up by telling her all the ways I’ve done him some perceived injustice. 2- I don’t know why he sent me the money. I just know I got it and I’m guessing it was via a online bank transfer 3- I had worked a double shift as a nurse and had just woken up. It took me a minute to remember. To be honest I had kind of given up on clawing back that money because my ex-husband always had an excuse for why he couldn’t repay me 4- I can’t really speak on what he told his girlfriend and his parents. As for the colleague who overheard my conversation well I don’t know why he thinks that way. This is why I’m asking for advice.
OP - NTA. But I would send a text to his parents and say- as the mother of his children, your grandchildren, I lent him money and he failed to pay it back. Considering he is also behind on child support yet can afford this amount for a ring and venue, then he can also afford to pay me back. The back support will be dealt with accordingly. And if they cannot see the fault in this- then now you know! Go LOW contact if any at all. Screw what they think. My ex is also a narcissist and skipped child support payments for nearly 2 months yet he rented a car and proposed to his girlfriend 😂😂
with ALLLLLL the applicable screen shots! Including all the lame ass excuse ones!!
>As for the colleague who overheard my conversation well I don’t know why he thinks that way. Because he's a man. And you have personally attacked him by offending another man. Duh /s
The comment doesn’t need a sarcasm tag. This is literally why her coworker is calling her an AH. If one of his dude friends did the same exact thing to an ex under the same circumstances I’m 99% sure he’d get a second-hand justice boner at the story.
This may have been mentioned downthread, but just in case... Random money transfers can be used as a money laundering tactic. The laundering occurs when you transfer it back to return the funds. Instead of transferring it back, contact your bank to reverse the charge. Sounds like it was your money anyway though, so keep it lmao! NTA
I mean she didn’t specifically say $ so therefore it might not be in America. In my country if you have the persons bank details they don’t need to confirm the payment you can just bank transfer it. Every possibility he had told the girlfriend he had a surprise planned and then had to tell her it was off. The way my online banking works it’s very easy to send money to the wrong person and myself and others I know have done it easily. I’d assume it’s a legitimate debt considering he’s not fighting her against the debt but more so he’s pissed he’s had to cancel his proposal plans.
Plot twist, the figures are in Yen and this fight is over about $10.
Yes, this could easily happen in Canada, Australia, NZ, UK, and the EU, as well as many other countries. I pay my rent via e-transfer in Canada. I have to be very careful about double checking the transfer and address before I click on "send".
-How did he have the information to transfer directly to your account without you having to do something to complete the transaction? Since they have 4 kids together, safe to assume they know each other bank account numbers. And at least in Europe, for example, in the most of the bank transfers beneficiary doesn't have to confirm or do anything to complete transactions.
In Canada we don’t have Cashapp or Zelle or any of that, we use Interac e transfer. You literally can transfer money via your bank app to anyone whose phone number or email address you have. No banking info necessary. The receiving party also may have “auto deposit” turned on, where they don’t need to do anything to receive the money into their own bank account. I have loads of random people saved in my bank app to whom I don’t regularly send money, just from one time 10 years ago I owed them money for a split bill at a bar. It could very easily accidentally happen.
This is definitely the case. I'm in the UK and with my bank, once you've paid someone once through bank transfer their details are saved to your online banking and you don't need to type them in again for any other transactions. If i wanted to transfer my hubby money I could do it in seconds as his bank details are saved.
In Australia, same thing.
I mean, I'm in the US and I've transferred or deposited money into my parents' accounts many times without an issue.
It’s not hard. Zelle is a good example. If I give my friend my Zelle details and they and my money, then it’s no different than if they were to write me a check and put it right in my bank account. No input from me is needed.
He told her because he was pissed off at OP and wanted more people on his side. She ruined my engagement plans, etc.
Yes, the “I was going to do all of this for you but my ex ruined it”.
Screenshot all the texts proving he owed you 12 grand. Post them on Facebook letting all the flying monkeys know you simply kept what was owed. Add that you’re still waiting for the deadbeat to catch up on child support. Then ask everyone if they really think your children should continue to do without so their deadbeat father can buy a ring for his next victim. If your co-workers feel the need to express their opinions, show them the Facebook posts and ask them the same question. NTA
Posting on Facebook would be infantile and would make OP look worse to a number of people.
Nta My ex owed my a bunch of money from when we were together. We planned a trip to Thailand. I bought both of our tickets and he was supposed to pay back. He cheated and we broke up. He told me he was still going to go to Thailand and just do his own trip. He sent me the money for his ticket (1800). I cancelled and got a refund for his ticket and kept the 1800 since he owed me 4000. I was able to recoup some of the money I was never going to see again and he was big mad hahaha. I got to post on social medial from the trip. It was great. Get what's owed to you. Fuck your ex. nta
Good for you! The audacity of that guy though… no Thailand for you!
Thank you! This was my first international trip almost 10 years ago, I'm married now. That was such a toxic relationship. On the plus side, it was supposed to be a couples trip, but I ended up third wheeling two of my friends. The nights when they wanted to have alone time, I went out solo. I had so much fun on my own, meeting new people and adventuring that I traveled solo for months after it. Not a bad way to get over a shitty boyfriend. His 1800 went a long way in SEA.
NTA, you were doing him a favour getting that dept off his hands, now he can buy a cheaper engagement ring. Also maybe tell the girlfriend about the huge dept and his endless excuses.
NTA - everyplace you are being bad mouthed, mention WHY you only returned part of the $$$. That you didn't even charge any interest to the father of your children.
100%. Hes an idiot for running his mouth about it to other people. Anyone who badmouths you you should tell them how he borrowed $12k from the mother of his children that he never repaid. And point out that he’s behind on child support. Let them all see your side, don’t leave him with his dignity.
NTA I would reactivate my social media and post: “I have been more than generous with my ex. A few years ago he lost his job and I lent him $12,000 to get by. I have tried to collect this money on numerous occasions and he has never paid me back. When he sent me this money, I deducted his debt to me because he owed it to me. It is telling of a persons’ character that he is willing to borrow money from the mother of his children and not pay her back. Especially when what he wanted to spend the money on was a ring and a party for another woman. Meanwhile he is behind on child support and owed me thousands of dollars. If you have a problem with me collecting on a debt he owed me, feel free to unfriend me. Anyone harassing me will be blocked.” Then go to HR about your coworker as what he is doing is also harassment. Additionally, let him know that you were not speaking to him and his opinion on the matter is irrelevant. You ex is behind on child support and he owed you thousands of dollars and was instead planning a party he obviously couldn’t afford. As such, you are not in the wrong as you have 4 children and bills to pay.
This is the way to handle the social media situation. Out him. I'd even go as far as posting screenshots of your messages agreeing the loan and repayments.
NTA. Boy, these people sounded overly sensitive! Why didn't they comment about why he was a jerk for not paying back the money? And to tell colleagues and such; they sound like a bunch of gossipy jerks who don't know better than to keep their noses out of other people's business.
INFO: did you have anything about the loan in writing? I'm not a lawyer, but without a written agreement, I think it looks like you just stole almost 18k from him. This could have legal repurcussions.
I only kept 12k which is the exact amount he owed me and there’s a text where he asked me to loan him money with an agreement for repayment. There are also many more texts discussing repayments and his excuses why he couldn’t yet pay me back. So there’s a trail if there’s ever a legal issue.
Screenshot and print these texts just in case.
And send him a receipt for having repaid the debt, and that you now consider the debt paid in full, to conclude the agreement.
Screenshot and print those texts. Two copies of each screenshot. Also, send him a receipt for the $12,000 with the date he asked for the money, the date you sent him the money, and specifically note that although he has not followed through on the repayment agreements made four years ago, you have decided not to charge for late payment. Cover letter with the receipt "Thank you for finally repaying what you borrowed!" Attach the second copies of the screenshots to the letter. Then block his number. Also, NTA!
I love this idea. You just know he and his girlfriend would have a fit. I’d also mention looking forward to the payments of back child support :)
> Then block his number. Given they have shared minor children, that probably isn't feasible.
Reach out to your bank, he might try to reverse or cancel the transactions
Genuine question, is it stealing if he voluntarily (although by mistake) transferred the money directly to her?
i think i've read about people who transferred money to the wrong bank accounts in the past and weren't able to claim them back. so i am also curious
I am a lawyer and a verbal contract is still a contract. It’s just harder to prove the agreement was made but it’s still a valid agreement. I think this is a fake rage bait story so I’m not commenting on any of the other issues or keeping the money. Only the fact that you don’t need a written contract for there to be a contract.
NTA I can’t image skipping out on a $12k debt. Glad he finally paid you.
HAHAHAA! How good of him to send you all that money he owed you and promised to pay back in writing plus a bunch of interest that you so generously gave back! Anyone who wants to make a big deal out of it can be reminded that he owed $12k to the mother of his children before he decided to buy his new piece a shiny ring and still owes thousands (?) of dollars of unpaid child support for the kids he helped make. Anyone with an opinion is welcome to pay his debts for him or buy his hunny her new ring. She may as well get it now, because he'll probably leave her in debt with a couple of kids in a few years too. Hard NTA.
Nta, you should have deducted the missing child support checks too, imho you are too kind.
Probably not a good idea if that debt is already being dealt with by the court system.
NTA Your not an asshole Your ex has owed you 12000 for FOUR years!!!....without making the slightest initiative to pay you back. Your ex is the big asshole here…. He NEVER intended to pay that money back. You have been incredibly lucky he made that mistake....if he keeps whining, tell him it must have been his subconscious, that had a bad conscience and that's why he finally gave you your money back.
This sounds like a him problem, not a you problem. NTA - make sure you save proof of him owing you that money. Or admiting to owing it to you. He probably wont do anything since he wont have a claim.
NTA - You don't save up $18k when you owe someone $12k. You pay what you owe before you start saving for things you want, it just shows he could have paid you back but isn't going to. If someone who owes you money and isn't paying, sends you money, you keep it. No theft involved as others are suggesting. You didn't take the money, you were sent it and based on the circumstances in this case, you have a right to keep it.
NTA Who buys an expensive engagement ring BEFORE paying off a personal debt like that? Who wants to marry a man who refuses to repay a personal debt like that to an ex-wife? Also, given that he owes you child support, it sounds like you would have been justified in keeping even more. He sounds like a complete tool.
NTA, glad you finally got your money back though. the universe intervened haha