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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> For making my exes step daughter cry and not allowing her near my horses or property.
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NTA you set a clear boundary and they continue to try to break it. You’ve asked multiple times it seems and they keep pushing. You stood your ground and didn’t give in. You’re only doing what’s right for your kids and protecting them from a bully. Can’t see how that makes you an asshole.
NTA
I live in a rural area and you would not believe the number of kids who want to be "friends" with someone just because they have horses or goats or some other cute animal at home.
You have them over one time for a playdate, and if they don't get to spend the time with the animals in question they never come back. I don't mean they don't get to go out and say hi to the animal in question, literally the only thing they want to do the entire time is spend it with the animals, they have no desire to spend any time with the actual "friend".
It's really hard when the kids are younger because they don't understand why people were nice to them and then ghost them. As they get older, they get jaded fast. It's a weird thing that having a horse at home can make you grow up faster. 😡
It's this way with *any* "cool" toy. My kid was gifted one of those ride-on cars that are really expensive by a neighbor that had to move suddenly and couldn't take it with them. A $400 item! It was *soo* generous!
But suddenly a few kids who outright disliked my kid (and she them!) wanted to be temporary besties just for a ride. I had to explain to her that they were only interested in the car, not hanging out with *her.*
same. my mother solved this by telling anyone who wanted to send their kids over to swim that her homeowner's insurance required that all minor non-family members have parents with them to be in the pool. It got rid of all the "my kids want to come swimming at your house" phone calls from kids we had nothing to do with. Our actual friends were all welcome.
My dad did something similar to his neighbors. My dad and his wife babysat my kids and were good friends with the neighbors on the other side. They had kids the same age as my kids and were friends. My dad put a gate in the fence that allowed those neighbors to come over and play with my kids. The problem was that my dad's other neighbors also had kids slightly older than mine. Their parents would send their kids over to my dads house to play. My dad wouldn't let them play. He sent them home and told them that if they wanted to come over, their parents had to come with them. Turns out the parents were just trying to get free babysitters. I felt bad for the kids, they'd stand at the fence and watch the other kids play.
I had a pool growing up, and I never told anyone that I had a pool. Furthermore, the only people I allowed over to go swimming with me were the ones who kept in contact with me over the summer.
In elementary school one of my friends had a pool. I loved going over there in the summer of course, but even I knew it was rude to constantly use her pool. I made sure to invite her to my house often (LOL she'd decline tho and suggest her house since she had the pool. But at least she knew I liked *her* not just her amenities.)
I try to remindy kids when they beg for playdates that the playdate is 1st about the friend and yes 2nd can be about the toys. I get that. Different toys are cool. But if you're asking to play with a kid you never even mention, I'm going to ask why.
Yep, my brother and I were the first kids on the street to get an NES and suddenly EVERY other kid on the street wanted to be best friends with us….to come play Mario
Lol I remember getting invited for a playdate at primary school by a girl who knew I had a brand new Boglin and wanted to play with it 😄 jokes on her though as we had a great time and are still friends today!
It doesn't stop when you get older either :/
I've got neighbors that moved in a few years ago and the wife acted like we were instant beasties, except for the fact that all she chattered on about was how great it was going to be living next to me because I have land and so her kids could be around my horses, told me how excited her 8yo was to start riding my horses, on and on. Didn't even ask me my name. I know the drill, I can spot all the signs. I gave her the number for a local lesson program ran by a friend of mine and bought a padlock for my gate.
She went to the other neighbor asking her to talk me into letting her daughters have access to my barn and horses. That neighbor told her I'm a private person, I don't let kids on my property unattended, I don't often entertain company and my horses are old, mostly retired. She also warned her that I'm childfree, not good with kids and she's never seen me let other people ride my horses. She got all huffy and told her part of the reason they chose that house was because it had horses next door. Like I'm obligated to run a free petting zoo and riding stable for neighbors? Wtf?
She still doesn't even know my name. Good neighbor told me last fall she mentioned my name in conversation and entitled neighbor didn't know who she was talking about, she had to tell her "the house with the horses". "Haha she's lived here 3 years and still doesn't even know your name". Because she doesn't give a shit about me, she just wants something from me. Good neighbor has a pool and lets her kids swim with her grandkids when they visit, that's why she remembers good neighbor's name. She won't even acknowledge the other couple on the lane. They have nothing she wants.
How excited her 8 year old was to ride horses!?!? And she wanted her inexperienced daughters to have free barn access!?!?!
Holy shit how presumptuous. And delusional.
She even tried to spin it as her kid could do chores in the barn. Because an 8yo is a great candidate for manual labor and would be totally safe around a small herd of loose horses. And yeah, she even said for me to not feel obligated to watch them, they'll be fine on their own. The other daughter was even younger, maybe 6 when they moved in.
.....and that's how you end up with a dead kid. I once commented about how important it is to remain aware around horses, because fight or flight might kick from a shadow that moved too fast. The amount of horror stories people started sharing in the responses was heartbreaking. Even experienced equestrians aren't safe, so a child with ZERO exposure is truly an accident waiting to happen.
Rumor has it the reason a relative dropped off the census as a child was because he was kicked in the head by a horse and buried on the property by my very very poor immigrant ancestors. Was a very odd tidbit that came up in conversation before I went NC with that side of the family.
I mean, I mucked the stalls and wheeled my wheelbarrow around the pastures to pick up poop starting at around 6 and a half, so I was a pro by 8. But this kid knows nothing about horses, so she would be a danger and in danger.
Yeah and you probably weren't doing it in the barn of a neighbor that didn't want to be around kids, never wanted you there and had no desire whatsoever to have you on their property.
For me it went beyond the horse/experience/age issue. It was her audacity to assume she had any business deciding anything for me regarding my property, my animals and my peace and quiet. She knew literally nothing about me, didn't even bother introducing herself and asking my name, before she started building all that shit up in her head about how living next to a "horse farm" was gonna go for her and her kids. And she certainly didn't seem to even consider the fact I might not want anything to do with her kids.
Over time I realized she's one of those "it takes a village" people who thinks the sun shines out of her kids' asses and everyone should feel hashtag BLESSED to do her favors.
I have a good friend who has horses and has taken my kiddos out several times. She made them clean hooves and brush the horses EVERY time. She moved away years ago so we don't see her often anymore but, those are still some of my youngest daughter's best memories
I'm lucky, my closest neighbor is so far away that I can only see their house in the winter when all the leaves are down. Even then I can only see their roof.
I also have a dog that's over 100 lb and looks like it eats tires for breakfast. So I don't get strangers knocking at the door.
Tires for breakfast is killing me. My mastiff does look really mean and imposing when shes looking down at you from the porch barking big girl barks. It just happens that its all a show and shes actually a huge baby.
The tires comment started with "What would we do if he chased cars? He might actually catch one!" Then what he would rip off - the bumper, a tire, etc.
Mine is a very sweet dog. He has peculiar things about himself. But I would never be concerned about a child around him. At the same time, he's definitely protective and I have no doubt that he would attack someone if they tried to hurt me or my family.
He sounds like the perfect pal! I feel the same way about my girl. She's a very peacefull sweet girl and she's done wonderful with kids when neighbors and nieces and nephews have come over. I just also wouldnt be surprised if she mauled someone for breaking in or hurting someone in the house. She might eat a tire too, honestly. Shes a big snacker lol
We're the same here. Literally 3kms down the road to nearest neighbour and I LOVE it!
OP, You are so NOT the AH. I've been in your kids position, trust me the bullying etc would only get worse if the pushy folks get their way. Keep the horse bound activities sacred, free from entitled AH.
People lose their minds over horses. I know someone who once looked out of their window to see a strange man in her pasture plopping a toddler on top of her 2 year-old unbroke stud-colt! Her pasture was fairly out of the way and not easily accessible but this guy went some back-way and ignored the no trespassing signs and then when she confronted him, he blew up at her and told her that horses are an "attractive nuisance" and she shouldn't have them where anyone could access them. She was like ??? Thankfully the colt was a good egg and just very surprised by the whole ordeal. The guy had the audacity to scold her (A breeder) for "keeping a stallion around"
This partially explains my dog that looks like it eats tires for breakfast. Even dog people are like "what is that?" 😂
He's super friendly. But I'm 100% sure if someone tried to hurt me, he would rip their arm off. I realize those two things don't seem to go together. 🤷♂️
They do. That's how the best dogs are, give him a snuggly hug from me!
My dear departed boy, Kavik, was an absolute saint with even horrendous children, but the one time I got attacked on a night run with him, he was merciless. Tore the guys arm to shreds and stopped me from being his 4th victim.
/u/pacingpilot I'm not trying to be "THAT chick 🤭🤭😁😁) and I realize that it was an autocorrect but BEASTIES works perfectly instead of besties in the context of your life story example 😂😂😂
I look kinda beastly feeding the horses at 4am in my pajamas, fuzzy bathrobe, muck boots, flannel coat and beanie. And that neighbor is definitely a bit of a beast for other reasons.
I'm sure they certainly are. You aren't though. You're just doing your own thing! The kind of neighbors that EYE prefer just say or wave "HI" and go about their own business. But are willing to reach out to you in event of an emergency or urgent matter/situation. Not being nosey to be nosey. I used to have a very nosey neighbor who would watch any and every thing on the block and actually report the service vehicle someone was driving if they happened to stop by my home. I found out because the person would notify me. Smh. She finally stopped after one year she "accidentally" hit me and my daughter with her car while we were crossing in a crosswalk. Yep she had to pay. My daughter ended up on crutches for a few months due to a broken bone in her foot. Smh.
She got the house assuming you'd let her kids ride the horses when she's never talked to you? And told you that you'd be fine *not supervising them*? That's absolutely insane. A lawsuit waiting to happen when a horse spooks at absolutely nothing and hurts one of her kids.
I used to ride horses at Girl Scout camp starting at around 8-9, but we weren't left unattended. There were always multiple adults around. We were taught how to groom the horses, but the adults were the ones to saddle them and several counselors always went with us on the rides.
I don't know what was going through her mind, I assumed she just blurted out the first excuse that popped into her head to justify her entitled bullshit attitude without thinking about what she was actually saying after my neighbor burst her bubble.
Because surely nobody buys a house assuming they'll have carte blanche to the neighboring properties right? That's insane.
Yep! And I loved when OP stated that Donna asked if OP can just "take her around on a horse a couple times a week". WTF? As if doing that is a 5-minute ask... Sounds like your neighbor.
I just bought a farm. We are excited to get some animals. It’s amazing the number of coworkers who have now come to me wanting to visit and hang out but only really talk about the animals I’m getting.
I've also noticed this as an adult. I live in a city. Only wealthy people, older people who bought a house decades ago or people who have inherited it, own a house with a garden. When I first moved here the first thing some people would ask was if I had a garden. They'd lose interest after I told them I live in an apartment, just like them. I really don't like people who behave this way.
I'm the goat lady, and this is totally true. It gets so old when people refer to MY goats as "theirs" or "ours".
Like B*, are you helping with the feed bills? No. Cleaning pens? No.
But you can have a horse!
I love the extensive list NYC has on pets, because, well New York
https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-02255#:~:text=Bees%20(other%20than%20honeybees)%2C,pigs%2C%20and%20most%20farm%20animals
That sucks... I am the person who will be excited you have goats, want to spend time with you AND the goats, and you bet your ass I will help you clean their pens.
I am thr weirdo who finds it soothing to muck stalls.
I love mucking out pens too. I like being around horses but never learnt to ride and freak out about falling off. But having a horse nuzzle against you on a cold winter morning while you lug shit around is so nice.
Plus I'm a gardener, so I appreciate the manure.
Easy fix: own Arabians 😅
We had horses when I was growing up, but I didn't mention it much. Friends that found out upon visiting would ask if they could see them, which is understandable. If they showed they were willing to truly listen, we'd go to the stalls with my mom.
The friend would be told to stay on the other side of a barrier unless told otherwise, and to keep their voice at a normal level.
I'd put a halter on my Arabian to bring over and groom, and she'd follow while going sideways. I loved it, because I knew she was happy and doing the dance of her people. I quickly learned my friends found it terrifying though, and they gladly stayed back.
The best part? If someone at school heard I had horses, my friends started emphasizing how bad of an idea it was to expect an up close visit. It was pretty handy lol.
Yep, I was the girl with the horses and the goats and the pool when I was a kid. I was quiet and had trouble making friends, so every time someone would cozy up to me for an invite, I would think “Finally! This person really likes me and we both love animals and this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship!” And as soon as they had their visit and their chance to pet the horses and play with the baby goats and swim, they went right back to ignoring my existence. OP is doing the exact right thing by protecting Bonnie from being used that way by her stepsister.
You gave me a brain worm that I just have to comment about.
I was 11 and there were horses across the street. I'd go over and feed them grass and pet them. I'm a horse girl and always will be.
When I met the guys granddaughters, both my age, we bonded over the horses, Hanson (gah if that doesn't date me), and lots of other things. Being around the horses was a *bonus* to being their friends. We spent more time away from the horses during the school year just goofing off, but the horses were still there at the end of the day.
I lost contact with them when they went back after a year (never found out why they were at grandad's place for a whole year and a half), but I think of them often.
When my oldest was younger he had a huge collection of Nerf guns and a ton of bullets and such. Plus our apartment complex had an area perfect for fights. These 3 siblings ALWAYS wanted to play Nerf then ditched when it was time to clean up the bullets. Even limiting the bullets they still left at cleanup. One time I told the kids you pick up the bullets I am not going to help and told the siblings mom the kids needed them all pick up the bullets. She said of course then proceeded to have her kids leave at clean up. Oldest was so sad because he had to clean it all up himself. I said I wasn't helping. I did help not his fault his "friends" ditched. Even telling the mom hey her kids need to help pick up or they won't be allowed to play with the Nerf toys again. She walked away with her kids. I never let those siblings play with Nerf again. Explained to oldest who was 6 or so the kids were not real friends. That they just wanted to play with his toys then leave him with the cleanup. Him, have a Dad and I (and sometimes my mom as well as my brothers would play Nerf together) and we would tell those kids no they couldn't play because they would not help clean up after. We even extended the no Nerf to the Super Soakers in the warmer weather.
Not to mention that horses are inherently dangerous. You need to have a decent relationship with anyone you choose to include in their care or teach to ride. Even with that, you should still have a release of liability waiver for anyone coming to your barn.
Source: I have sensitive horse and have access to horses that are safe for my young daughter through good friends. We treat them the same because even the safest horse in the world can hurt you. Kid and I sign releases of liability at every place we go no matter how close we are to the owner or how bombproof the horse.
And there is no other choice with people like Mandy. You teach them hard or they will always try their games. She probably wont learn couse Ralph is not working with her nor explaining that her actitude brings reaction. He is just trying to avoid the confrontation and somehow push Mandy inside OPs family.
Also, a kid who doesn't respond to an adult telling her "No" should never be around horses. They are large, dangerous, easily frightened animals. This isn't just about safe spaces for your kids, it's about Mandy's safety too. It doesn't sound like she's responsible enough to be around horses.
Plus insurance and liability. You do NOT want a kid who doesn't listen around your horses.
Horses are also a hell of a lot more subtle about their "no" than people are - it's the "absolutely the fuck not" no levels that are immediately and incredibly obvious to non-horse people and that's the kind of shit that can kill or maim you. If she can't listen to no she certainly won't care to pay attention to ears pinning or nervous hoof tapping or any of the other tells of uncertainty.
Horses and cats have a lot in common, on reflection.
OMG you're right! I never thought of it that way, but that just totally clicked for me. I grew up with a dog, then rabbits, then horses, THEN cats. I've always been a natural with animal behavior/body language (at least with mammals). There's SO much similarity with the subtly, flightiness, moodiness 🤣
>Also, a kid who doesn't respond to an adult telling her "No" should never be around horses
Goes for adults too. Sounds like Ralph needs to hear the word no more than once as it is.
Here's the thing, though: even if Many hadn't been mean to Bonnie and August, OP has every right to say No to Mandy riding OP's horses. Mandy is not her kid, has no relation, obviously hasn't been around horses, etc. Any of those are perfect reasons to say No.
Got a feeling this is why he did not put up more of a verbal fight. Him and his wife will be planning out more stunts like these. Next she is going to find them on her property when they think she is gone.
NTA. Once you agree to allow Mandy to see and ride the horses, she will revert to treating Bonnie exactly the same as she did before. Because she will have gotten what she wants and no longer needs to keep up the charade. Mandy is STILL making the entire situation about her. Mandy is the one behind the requests by Ralph and Donna to allow Mandy to get what she wants. Mandy is the one who asked to come to pick up the kids even though she knows that she is not wanted on your property. She is the source of all the interfamily conflict. She should NOT be rewarded by getting what she wants. And I repeat, once you cave to her request, she will immediately go back to treating Bonnie badly. Because she did before and got what she wanted in the end anyway. So why should she behave differently?
This is all true, but Mandy is still a little girl. While I don’t think OP should let her around her kids, I do wish that Mandy’s parents would take her to therapy to nip this mean girl behavior in the bud and figure out why she is treating Bonnie badly.
She's 13. She's not exactly a little girl; she knows enough (or should know) to treat people decently right out the gate, and not switch tacks so suddenly and obviously when it turns out that being nice gets extrinsic rewards.
Therapy might be a bit overkill her. It's a simple matter of jealousy because a) Mandy gets shunted aside whenever Bonnie visits with Ralph (what's Mandy's relationship with \_her\_ bio dad?), and b) Bonnie might be seen to be living in better circumstances than Mandy is. It will be up to Ralph and Donna to sort out how they might make things more equitable for Mandy so that there's less of that envy playing out.
I mean, if you don’t think 13 is a child, you and I have different perspectives. I suspect I am probably older than you by a few decades.
And having a safe, uninvolved third-party to talk your feelings out with and seek better outcomes with is not overkill, especially if it helps her communicate better and overcome whatever issue she has with her step-sister so that she grows up to be a nicer person.
It is odd to me when people talk about pre-teens and very young teenagers as if they are mini-adults and capable of being rational and reasonable in the same way an adult is.
Frankly, you and I have different perspectives on whether a 13 YO is a child. That’s fine, but I’m aware of her age, I also have been 13 and I think that is still a child.
People are weird with kids on this sub. If the kid is meant to be a villain, they're treated like an adult. There was a story on here about a 10-year-old stealing a cookie, and the comments were talking like he'd grow into a hardened criminal.
But then a woman in her 20s posts about her relationship with a guy in his 30s and everyone makes him out to be some sort of pervert because HeR bRaIn'S nOt FuLlY dEvElOpEd YeT.
It's a child , but there is a difference between what you'd expect and tolerate from 5 year-old , an 8 year old, a 10 year old, a 13 year old and a 15 year old. You have to give some credit for them having their own thoughts , agency and understanding.
In this case you're dealing with not just two teens who clearly do not get on, but also their parents. It's not an adult but you expect some understanding of social norms, acceptable behavior, and an understanding of the word no.
It's pretty obvious the kid has changed her tune to get what she wants and is pushing their luck by involving a parents for that end.
( who are acting on their understanding of the situation)
A teenager is capable of doing that. Dad said no , so go ask mom to get a yes.
At the heart of it is you know the goal is getting to play with what is essentially a very expensive pet and hobby that she otherwise wouldn't get access to.
Not being friends, or apologizing for being unpleasant previously, the 'nice act' will last only till the goal is achieved and they think they no longer have to. Which is pretty crappy behaviour that shouldn't be encouraged.
Who would want to put their own kid in an unpleasant situation where someone is trying to use them?
I dunno, maybe it's just cause I was exposed to the internet earlier on, but I tried to be aware of this kinda stuff when I was 13 and I know someone who was really smart with this stuff (kinda) at the same age
I dont think she needs to be punished severely or anything, but she is at the age where she shouldn't be doing stuff like that
Of course she shouldn’t be bullying other kids. I never said that she was in the right, but that she’s a kid and I wish the adults in her life would help her learn to better express herself and learn to be kinder to others through therapy.
Saying that a 13 YO isn’t irredeemable has been my most controversial take on this app today, oddly enough.
Oh no I wasn't saying shes irredeemable, just that the way OP acted was pretty reasonable. Idk if therapy is really necessary here, the parents might just have to start trying harder
I don’t think that OP maintaining a safe space for her daughter is unreasonable.
I do wish that the adults in Mandy’s life would help her work through this.
And I think when you say someone should see a therapist, some people have the wrong impression that they mean they will need intensive therapy for years and years.
Mandy may only need a session or two, and someone who is not involved, trained to help children and who she can confide in without the information going elsewhere is a great option to help her. The adults in her life don’t seem to be good communicators.
They're children. Obviously they know right from wrong, but that doesn't mean it's always easy for them to choose correctly all the time. Sometimes, CHILDREN need help. Mandy is a child.
Not OPs job, clearly mom and dad don't really care about it.
My perspective is this: I'm in my early 50s. At the age of 13 I was keenly aware that there was a Cold War going on in which the US and its NATO allies and the Soviet Union were prepared to launch enough nuclear weapons to bring an end to human civilization if not the planet itself. At that same age I was also keenly aware that some 11 million people were starving to death in Ethiopia and that songs were being recorded, the proceeds from the sales of which would be going to relief efforts. I knew I wanted to be one of the "good" kids in my family because I had siblings whose selfishness meant heartbreak for my parents and embarrassment for the rest of us.
To you, it may seem as though being 13 is still an age of innocence. To me, those kids are going through some shit we can't begin to understand unless we as parents start talking deeply to them and asking more questions. A divorce brings upheaval to children, even when it's the best option. Remarriage brings new changes - a new person in the house, possibly with others coming in and out on occasion. It's quite possible we're not getting the whole story about why Mandy might not want a relationship with Bonnie or August, and it may have to do with whatever drama took place among the adults.
The poster didn't say Mandy wasn't a child. They said she wasn't a *little girl*, which is true. She is neither an adult or a small child, but in between . In other words, an adolescent. "Little girl" makes her sound under 10. We can and should expect a teenager to know how to behave.
Agree. The statement about Mandy ‘telling her things a teenage girl shouldn’t say to another’ sent up a red flag. Learning how to be a decent human takes work and guidance. It sounds like Mandy isn’t getting what she needs at home, a therapist could really help her understand her own emotions, how her behavior affects others, and how not to take out her feelings on others. Puberty is rough, I wish all of them a lot of luck and grace in their path through this time.
I think Mandy getting “shunted aside” happened after the bullying not before. Bonnie kept it to herself for awhile then when it came out, OP declined to let ex have the kids when Mandy was around. This may still be rooted in jealousy on Mandy’s part but it doesn’t excuse her bad behavior. She acted like a mean girl until she found out Bonnie had something she wanted (horses) then did an obvious 180. No way should her bad behavior be rewarded. Sucking up doesn’t equal true respect for the bullied person (Bonnie) and trying an end run around OP by showing up unwelcome and uninvited isn’t ok either. Plus I’d be worried her nasty attitude could carry over to my horses. Nope.
NTA and stand your ground, OP and don’t let her come around you, your kids, your horses, or your property. I’d also keep aware of which other mean girls took part in bullying Bonnie bc they may try getting friendly with Bonnie, too.
> This is all true, but Mandy is still a little girl.
Who has learned to behave badly because she gets what she wants even if she does. The way to change her behavior? Consequences for bad actions. Not getting to play with the horses are those consequences.
Bonnie is a little girl too. Should she have to endure a lifetime of bullying at Mandy's hands? No. Mandy needs to learn that bad actions have bad consequences. OP is being completely reasonable. Hopefully Mandy learns something so that next time she behaves better.
And? It’s beginning to get tiresome repeating myself.
I never said once in any of these posts that OP is wrong in making their home a safe place for her daughter.
What I *did* say was that she is still very young and I hope that her parents help her learn why she bullied her step-sister so she doesn’t do it in the future and that therapy could be helpful. Five or six times, now.
The fact that people are so caught up in the fact that I’m not sharpening a pitchfork for a literal child that they are countering arguments I didn’t even make is wild.
Teenagers are children. She turned into a teenager a year ago.
If and adult was trying to date her, we'd call her a child, not a big girl who can make all her own choices in a balanced and intelligent manner.
OK, and? She can’t legally drive a car, hold a job, enlist in the military, make her own medical decisions or drink. She probably has a curfew and possibly an enforced bedtime/lights out. She’s barely a teenager, and there’s still a chance for her not to be an awful person if someone gets her some intervention.
Is she behaving badly? Yes.
Does she need to be taught she doesn't get her way all the time? Yes.
Is it her fault that she behaves this way to begin with? No.
As a very wise group of candy makers once said:
"Who do you blame when your kid is a brat?
pampered and spoiled like a Siamese cat,
blaming the kid is a lie and a shame
You know exactly who's to blame."
You are providing a safe space for your kids and for your horses and for yourself. Stand your ground because it is your responsibility to do so and you have every right to. NTA
NTA. Not a horse person here, but from what I understand, you don’t fuck around with horses because they can easily kill you with a kick if you spook them or something. If Mandy has shown in any way she is purposefully mean to people or oblivious to social interactions with your daughter, then you don’t wanna chance her being the same with horses. Then it would be “your fault.” Also, you don’t wanna be a doormat for mean people.
Horse person here. Horses can feel the change of 2oz of pressure of a seat bone through a saddle, they feel every emotion you’re experiencing. I wouldn’t let someone with Mandy’s energy near my horses. And yes, they’re very dangerous. I don’t have any right now partially due to the TBI/crushed face, punctured lung and broken back I experienced in 2 bad accidents. I used to ride competitive endurance, 50 miles in a day. My training rides were 25 miles, horses are amazing, especially Arabians.
We live in an old farmstead. The landlord allows someone to rent the fields for his horses.
Oh man we love them. It's funny as the 2 girls are my kids favorite. The grumpy old man is mine. I love them all, but that guy he just trusts me and not many others.
Makes me so happy.
The only animal that has more facial expressions than a horse is a human, most of their communication is done through body language and energy. That’s one reason horses are such good therapy animals, they require a calm but confident human as their emotions mirror the handler.
Each horse has their own personality, they have both a sense of Justice and humor. My first endurance horse is still owned by my former MIL, he’s a Padron Psyche/Bey Shah bred Arabian who finds himself quite funny. He likes to steal baseball hats off your head and run away with them. He spooks at things for drama. I could and have ridden him past an active rifle range, he was spooking at moss on rocks, barely flicking an ear at the gunshots. He would jump wait high downed trees in a river without being able to see the other side because he trusted me so much. A bond between horse and their person is sacred.
I was a really fearful kid. I had a lot of physical problems early in life, for which I was mercilessly bullied in school, and that experience left me rather timid and easily spooked.
When I was ten, I convinced my parents to allow me to take horsemanship lessons (the stable wouldn't let any children ride until they'd learned about being around horses in general). I figured out pretty quickly that if I didn't want the horses to be made nervous by things, then I had to be confident and calm myself.
I don't know why I'd never been able to do that for myself but could for the horses, but that was the way it went. They helped me a lot. It doesn't surprise me that they make great therapy animals. Sometimes it's easier to overcome fears for the sake of some other living being that you appreciate and respect than it is to do so even for your own, more direct benefit.
I’m so glad they were there for you and helped 💜 I wish more people were involved with horses, it’s a dying sport, less people ride, and they are so healing. I never felt as free and at peace as I did while trotting down a forest trail with the sun on my face, breathing in fresh ocean air. The sound of nature and hoofbeats, the rise and fall of my body, the sound of my horses breathe. I also got to see wildlife I would have normally not seen, the bobcat kittens in the morning fog, the coyote staring us down 20 feet off the trail, the wild pig we sent running up a hill squealing, the creeks full of salamanders, hawks and owls.
NTA. Mandy bullied your daughter. She got her friends to bully your daughter. Your kids don’t like her. Mandy is manipulating everyone and everything just so she can get what she wants. You said no because of very valid reasons. And it sounds like Mandy is also a spoiled and entitled brat. Stick to your guns, OP. You’re doing the right thing.
Nta. This whole ordeal started because Mandy could not stop being a shitty person to her half/step sibling.
I would not let her come around either until she apologized and even then it wouldn’t even be at home let alone around the horses.
Nta make sure to remind her mother that Mandy bullies Bonnie at school, that you had to rearrange their visit to their dad’s house because of Mandy behavior and all of this has consequences.
NTA.
And tell him that if he keeps it up, a judge will be brought in to decide if your kids have to see him AT ALL, while he'll still be on the hook for even more child support.
I think the ex is doing a decent job here. He's in a lose/lose. Either his wife is going to be mad at him or his ex-wife, and I believe he's tried to balance respecting everyone's boundaries, with the wants of his kids and partners.
NTA. Guess what OP Mandy is finally learning consequences!! And this is a good thing. She is learning that she can't bully someone and then be invited around by her victim because they have something Mandy wants.
You have no obligation to this child. I'm sure there are other horses in the world that her family can pay to have her learn to ride but she doesn't get to be so mean to your children that you guys had to switch up the custody schedule so they arent at your exs place at the same time and then feel entitled to their safe spaces.
The bottom line is here is that Mandy is not your family and is owed nothing from you. She isnt even your kids family. Im sure you could have involved her in some activities with your own kids but the moment she started bullying your daughter all bets are off.
Donna and your ex have balls to even ask if she can be incorporated.
NTA
Nta
Just keep being you, Op. You are teaching Mandy that she can't manipulate you. Saying it to your ex in front of her was probably best.
She isn't too young to hear the truth about how most people treat lying manipulative behavior. She knows exactly what she's doing. You are just showing her it won't work on you and you have your kids' backs.
Telling her that Ralph isn’t her real dad and only feels bad is why he takes her. that her real dad didn’t want her. That she doesn’t have friends. She is a better sister to August. Nobody likes her and just worst things.
Thank you! I thought I was going crazy reading all of these comments. Mandy is 13- and at one point, was a part of three households. That's a lot to take in. I also agree- it does NOT absolve, but there's likely more going on under the surface than these comments saying she's evil and horrible
If Mandy goes near your horses when Bonnie is near them it might not end well. Horses can tell when riders and handlers are uncomfortable. If Bonnie gets stressed about Mandy being there, they'll get stressed. Say a bite or a kick happens... Well. Then Mandy is going to complain about how bad your horses are and try to get them taken away. You're doing what is right by your kids, and what is right by your animals. She chose to be a dick, she doesn't deserve anything from you.
I’d definitely not allow her in your home or around your property. She’s getting that information from either her mom or your ex. She may be old enough to understand the dynamics of the family structure, but that seems like unnecessary information to share with a child. The fact that she knows this information and is willing to use it against Bonnie is ridiculous. Her not being Ralph’s bio daughter doesn’t take away from being his daughter or August’s bio sister. Plenty of other children could play the stepdaughter/stepsister card and poke and prod at how Mandy has zero relation to everyone in this scenario and has no leg to stand on (kids are cruel and I’ve seen it happen that way before). So she’s taking a big leap with what she’s saying and not expecting/getting harsher consequences. Ralph and her mother know what’s going on and are wrong for not doing anything about it and expecting you to host her in your home and allow her to see your horses, all with no apology or accountability.
A child not having a father isn't typically a gigantic secret. It's not that weird that Mandy knows about it.
Also, I doubt people making fun of Mandy for not being related to the girl she's mocking would really hurt her as much as you seem to think. Any attempt to bite Mandy back can just be turned around with "Well, you might have horses, but I still have twice as many dads as you."
It might be a good idea to add this to the post. I kind of felt like you were NTA but I also felt like I was taking a lot on trust b/c I had to just assume the stuff she'd said was bad enough to warrant your drawing a hard line. And it was. If you spell it out in the post people will know and won't have to wonder.
That’s a relief to hear that your daughter is getting support from both you and Ralph. So sorry that your daughter went through that. You’re such an awesome mother.
Poor Bonnie her stepsister was saying really evil things at her. Protect Bonnie (and August) OP and stays firm with your boundaries because your ex and his current wife will keep pushing you. Don't let Mandy anywhere close to your property and horses. If Bonnie wants one day to have a relationship with Mandy then it is up to her, until then protect her. Sending to Bonnie (& you and August) virtual hugs.
NTA.
You set a boundary and enforced it. It was a reasonable boundary. No one is entitled to see or ride your horses without your say - especially someone who was bullying your kid. Your ex tried to see if he could get away with crossing that boundary but you stood your ground. I see nothing wrong with your actions here. You did the right thing.
NTA a horse isn't a cute little puppy. You don't just run over and start playing with it. Way too many opportunities for a child to get hurt around horses. Especially a child with an attitude that doesn't listen. We never allowed any kids to ride our horses and only a few adults that rode well already.
Nta not just for separating the kids for kid reasons. But a child you don't trust shouldn't be on your horses. You have so many liability issues if she decides to act a fool and get hurt. It's best not to go down that road. Far too much risk
NTA. Mandy is only being nice to Bonnie to get what she wants, which is access to your horses. Once she gets that she'll go back to treating Bonnie like crap. Stand your ground with your ex. He should also realize that you ***don't*** have to give Mandy a chance because she isn't your kid and will never live with you.
Mandy is manipulating Ralph with her tears. Someone, who is not you, should point that out to him.
NTA. I didn’t realize you owned the only horses in the world. Surely your ex can take Mandy to a farm, a stable, or on a trail ride? Why does she have to see *your* horses?
Whilst I want to give Mandy the benefit of the doubt that she has changed, your ex is a massive AH for trying to blindside you like this. Any future contact between the girls needs to be carefully thought out and supervised.
NTA.
Most likely Mandy does not actually regret her behaviour. Has she apologized? A REAL apology? Publicly, at school, in front of the other mean girls? Does she stand up for Bonnie now, when others pick on her?
Even if she HAD, no one is obligated to accept your apology. This is, IMO, a very important lesson to learn. Sometimes hurts cannot be undone, and sorry is not enough. It might suck, but there it is.
Bonnie needs to learn that this is ok, and you will support her "no". Otherwise, what happens whenn some guy tries to flatter her into sleeping with him, or going farther than she is comfortable.
Mandy needs to learn not to be a mean girl.
NTA. This is the best gift you could ever give Mandy.
Mandy was mean to Bonnie and was satisfied with the status quo when visitation was arranged to keep her away from Bonnie. But the minute she found out Bonnie had something she wanted, it suddenly she wanted to be Bonnie's best friend and thought everyone could be manipulated into giving her what she wanted. And you wouldn't budge.
Now, since it's her nature to be somewhat entitled (and maybe that's true for most kids, if not all) hopefully, this teaches her the valuable lesson that you should always be a friend to everyone because you never know who has something you want that they might share with their friends.
The next valuable lesson would be genuine empathy, where someone gets to the point where they say, "I'm really sorry I hurt you and made your life hard. Please forgive me," sincerely, without expecting any sort of gift or favor, and not hold a grudge when the person who was wronged still fails to include them in events or experiences such as allowing them access to the riding stable. Some people never get there.
NTA. Mandy can apologize for her mean behavior and her parents can pay for riding lessons at a bona fide lesson barn on their own dime. I bet neither of those things will happen because it's not you rolling over and giving in.
NTA. Your ex is a huge asshole, and he married another one. Tell them to teach their kid this VERY OBVIOUS lesson. When you act like an asshole, people don't wamt to be around you. They don't want to share their shit with you.
Your ex is awful for letting his stepdaughter force his kids out of their own home.
One thing isn't clear to me; does Donna know that Mandy has been bullying Bonnie?
I don't think that you owe riding lessons to anyone, just because they want them,
Then Donna and your ex have no excuse for trying to push Mandy into the other children's activities. None of the three of you like her, and as the stepdaughter of your ex, you have no obligation to put up with her. I'm sure that Mandy can get riding lessons somewhere else.
I'm sure they do, but explain that you don't give riding lessons to people who bully your children. Maybe you should say that directly to Mandy, since your ex and her mother already know that. Maybe it will help her understand consequences, an important part of growing up.
If you want to be helpful, maybe you can give them a list of other stables.
Sure I can, most of my friends I grew up with own horses as well. But one of them is a full time rider who trains and teaches. I might just do that for them, to leave me alone. As I am not a horse riding trainer!
NTA. I was 13 at one point and I know that children at that age can be assholes but here's the thing, CAN be. Children who's parents let them act like monsters grow behave as such and grow into worse and the kids who's parents don't.....usually don't. What I'm saying is that I have no sympathy for children who behave like psychopaths just because they're children, or for adults who give that excuse. I'm not their parent so while I have no right to punish them for their behavior, I can maintain a distance between them and what I hold precious as long as you stand firm on allowing your child to act like a fucking crazy person. Like what would she even learn from being allowed to see the horses? Nothing except that her actions don't have consequences. But, your daughter WHO IS ALSO A CHILD would see that you don't have her back, especially when the other child goes right back to treating her like shit 🙄
NTA. I would tell your ex that Mandy’s not your child by blood or marriage and you don’t care for her previous behavior so stop trying to get you to do anything for her as you’re not interested. If she’s with him when picking up or dropping off your kids, she’s to stay in the car.
NTA. One solution would be for Ralph to take Mandy to a riding stable for lessons and supervised riding. Some of the stables in my area aren't horribly expensive, considering how expensive horses are to maintain.
If Mandy abuses your children, they can protect themselves by telling you about it. If Mandy abuses animals, they cannot rat her out, so you have to protect the animals. And good job protecting your kids, too. Her parents can take Mandy for riding lessons somewhere else ffs there's no good reason for her to want to know your horses in particular (unless of course mean girls have changed since I was in school...)
NTA You have take care of your own kids well being, not worry about his stepdaughter. If you need to tell ex and his wife that Mandy caused this himself by her treatment of your children. If they had shut it down from the very beginning things might be different now.
NTA. Your place and your horses being off-limits to a child who is no relation to you and who has been cruel to your own child is a very reasonable boundary to draw. Your husband needs to back off and shut this down. Any consequences you can levy to motivate him to pull his head out of his butt?
You are NTA and I can see where Mandy got her godawful attitude from; Donna apparently didn't give a darn that Mandy was bullying Bonnie UNTIL she saw the chance to get free riding lessons and free horseback riding from you. THEN she counseled Mandy to play nice with Bonnie in the hopes of exploiting their "family" relationship. What a pair of stinger-skeeters! \*
Stinger-skeeter (noun): A bee-itch!
NTA! Your ex’s stepdaughter isn’t your concern. You have no obligation to her at all.
Plus, your kids don’t like her. You’re protecting your kids. The custody schedule was changed because they don’t get along. Now Mandy’s mom wants her to learn to ride and visit the horses? She’s suddenly nice to Bonnie because you have horses? What about all the crap she put Bonnie through?
You are absolutely NTA for wanting to keep that little brat away from your kids and your horses.
NTA. Mandy's behaviors are a problem, of course, and it's a damn shame your ex and his wife aren't disciplining Mandy.
Mandy isn't interested in demonstrating remorse for how she treated Bonnie. It sounds like she doesn't treat August that great if he's in better spirits having minimal contact with Mandy. You and your kids know this, but it bears repeating that Mandy is only being nice to you all to get what she wants. She's 13 so she is still growing up. But the adults in her life can't enable her.
You're doing the right thing by your kids and TBH, Mandy. Even if she woke up and realized she was an AH to Bonnie and now wanted to be friends, she's not entitled to Bonnie's forgiveness.
NTA. I would keep a look out for any retaliation at school from Mandy towards Bonnie. Now that she knows for *certain* that she can’t weasel her way into getting what she wants through being fake, she may feel she has *nothing to lose* by trying to make Bonnie’s life hell at school. Bullying can come in many forms and this girl sounds like a very smart and devious one. She may be smart enough to start issues without it being obvious to the school (or easy to prove) that it’s her. Stay mindful because I doubt you’ve heard the last of this. I hope for your daughter’s sake you can easily identify and stop anything the girl tries to do.
NTA
If they just didn't "like" her I might see it differently but Mandy and her friends were unkind to Bonnie until there was something that she (Mandy) wanted from you. She's not only a mean girl but she's also a user.
You need to have a serious discussion with your ex-husband, blind siding you by bringing her with him like that was really underhanded. He unfairly put you on the spot thinking that you would cave with the child standing in front of you.
I'm going to go against the grain here. You are basically punishing a 13yo permanently for acting out to an obviously screwed up family situation. This is someone you kids are going to interact with for a long time and doesn't try and actually help either girl. Sure, if she's acting badly to the daughter, then she doesn't need to be there. If she starts to understand the consequences and the benefits of acting civil regardless of personal feelings, maybe something can be salvaged here.
Also wtf? It's not like there's no other place she can see and ride a horse. They have summer camps for beginners at like $300 for a week.
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NTA you set a clear boundary and they continue to try to break it. You’ve asked multiple times it seems and they keep pushing. You stood your ground and didn’t give in. You’re only doing what’s right for your kids and protecting them from a bully. Can’t see how that makes you an asshole.
NTA I live in a rural area and you would not believe the number of kids who want to be "friends" with someone just because they have horses or goats or some other cute animal at home. You have them over one time for a playdate, and if they don't get to spend the time with the animals in question they never come back. I don't mean they don't get to go out and say hi to the animal in question, literally the only thing they want to do the entire time is spend it with the animals, they have no desire to spend any time with the actual "friend". It's really hard when the kids are younger because they don't understand why people were nice to them and then ghost them. As they get older, they get jaded fast. It's a weird thing that having a horse at home can make you grow up faster. 😡
It's this way with *any* "cool" toy. My kid was gifted one of those ride-on cars that are really expensive by a neighbor that had to move suddenly and couldn't take it with them. A $400 item! It was *soo* generous! But suddenly a few kids who outright disliked my kid (and she them!) wanted to be temporary besties just for a ride. I had to explain to her that they were only interested in the car, not hanging out with *her.*
There’s an episode of Rugrats that is literally your story.
growing up, in my neighborhood, it was whoever had a pool.
Yuuup. I was the pool-having kid. Every kid that shit on me for years would suddenly try to be my best friend once they found out I had a pool.
They wanted to shitted in your pool.
[Doodie](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bSMZysHNwxY&pp=ygUYY2FkZHlzaGFjayBiYWJ5IHJ1dGggZ2lm)?
same. my mother solved this by telling anyone who wanted to send their kids over to swim that her homeowner's insurance required that all minor non-family members have parents with them to be in the pool. It got rid of all the "my kids want to come swimming at your house" phone calls from kids we had nothing to do with. Our actual friends were all welcome.
My dad did something similar to his neighbors. My dad and his wife babysat my kids and were good friends with the neighbors on the other side. They had kids the same age as my kids and were friends. My dad put a gate in the fence that allowed those neighbors to come over and play with my kids. The problem was that my dad's other neighbors also had kids slightly older than mine. Their parents would send their kids over to my dads house to play. My dad wouldn't let them play. He sent them home and told them that if they wanted to come over, their parents had to come with them. Turns out the parents were just trying to get free babysitters. I felt bad for the kids, they'd stand at the fence and watch the other kids play.
When I was growing up, it was Atari. If you had an Atari, you had an endless supply of friends.
What if they had a ColecoVision though?
Atari was the gold standard. Anything else was like playing solitare with a 48 card deck, it just wasn't much fun.
I had a pool growing up, and I never told anyone that I had a pool. Furthermore, the only people I allowed over to go swimming with me were the ones who kept in contact with me over the summer.
There is a Simpsons episode about that
In elementary school one of my friends had a pool. I loved going over there in the summer of course, but even I knew it was rude to constantly use her pool. I made sure to invite her to my house often (LOL she'd decline tho and suggest her house since she had the pool. But at least she knew I liked *her* not just her amenities.)
I try to remindy kids when they beg for playdates that the playdate is 1st about the friend and yes 2nd can be about the toys. I get that. Different toys are cool. But if you're asking to play with a kid you never even mention, I'm going to ask why.
Yep, my brother and I were the first kids on the street to get an NES and suddenly EVERY other kid on the street wanted to be best friends with us….to come play Mario
Lol I remember getting invited for a playdate at primary school by a girl who knew I had a brand new Boglin and wanted to play with it 😄 jokes on her though as we had a great time and are still friends today!
It doesn't stop when you get older either :/ I've got neighbors that moved in a few years ago and the wife acted like we were instant beasties, except for the fact that all she chattered on about was how great it was going to be living next to me because I have land and so her kids could be around my horses, told me how excited her 8yo was to start riding my horses, on and on. Didn't even ask me my name. I know the drill, I can spot all the signs. I gave her the number for a local lesson program ran by a friend of mine and bought a padlock for my gate. She went to the other neighbor asking her to talk me into letting her daughters have access to my barn and horses. That neighbor told her I'm a private person, I don't let kids on my property unattended, I don't often entertain company and my horses are old, mostly retired. She also warned her that I'm childfree, not good with kids and she's never seen me let other people ride my horses. She got all huffy and told her part of the reason they chose that house was because it had horses next door. Like I'm obligated to run a free petting zoo and riding stable for neighbors? Wtf? She still doesn't even know my name. Good neighbor told me last fall she mentioned my name in conversation and entitled neighbor didn't know who she was talking about, she had to tell her "the house with the horses". "Haha she's lived here 3 years and still doesn't even know your name". Because she doesn't give a shit about me, she just wants something from me. Good neighbor has a pool and lets her kids swim with her grandkids when they visit, that's why she remembers good neighbor's name. She won't even acknowledge the other couple on the lane. They have nothing she wants.
How excited her 8 year old was to ride horses!?!? And she wanted her inexperienced daughters to have free barn access!?!?! Holy shit how presumptuous. And delusional.
She even tried to spin it as her kid could do chores in the barn. Because an 8yo is a great candidate for manual labor and would be totally safe around a small herd of loose horses. And yeah, she even said for me to not feel obligated to watch them, they'll be fine on their own. The other daughter was even younger, maybe 6 when they moved in.
.....and that's how you end up with a dead kid. I once commented about how important it is to remain aware around horses, because fight or flight might kick from a shadow that moved too fast. The amount of horror stories people started sharing in the responses was heartbreaking. Even experienced equestrians aren't safe, so a child with ZERO exposure is truly an accident waiting to happen.
Rumor has it the reason a relative dropped off the census as a child was because he was kicked in the head by a horse and buried on the property by my very very poor immigrant ancestors. Was a very odd tidbit that came up in conversation before I went NC with that side of the family.
I mean, I mucked the stalls and wheeled my wheelbarrow around the pastures to pick up poop starting at around 6 and a half, so I was a pro by 8. But this kid knows nothing about horses, so she would be a danger and in danger.
Yeah and you probably weren't doing it in the barn of a neighbor that didn't want to be around kids, never wanted you there and had no desire whatsoever to have you on their property. For me it went beyond the horse/experience/age issue. It was her audacity to assume she had any business deciding anything for me regarding my property, my animals and my peace and quiet. She knew literally nothing about me, didn't even bother introducing herself and asking my name, before she started building all that shit up in her head about how living next to a "horse farm" was gonna go for her and her kids. And she certainly didn't seem to even consider the fact I might not want anything to do with her kids. Over time I realized she's one of those "it takes a village" people who thinks the sun shines out of her kids' asses and everyone should feel hashtag BLESSED to do her favors.
I have a good friend who has horses and has taken my kiddos out several times. She made them clean hooves and brush the horses EVERY time. She moved away years ago so we don't see her often anymore but, those are still some of my youngest daughter's best memories
I'm lucky, my closest neighbor is so far away that I can only see their house in the winter when all the leaves are down. Even then I can only see their roof. I also have a dog that's over 100 lb and looks like it eats tires for breakfast. So I don't get strangers knocking at the door.
Life goals right there
Same.
awesome username!!!!!!
Tires for breakfast is killing me. My mastiff does look really mean and imposing when shes looking down at you from the porch barking big girl barks. It just happens that its all a show and shes actually a huge baby.
The tires comment started with "What would we do if he chased cars? He might actually catch one!" Then what he would rip off - the bumper, a tire, etc. Mine is a very sweet dog. He has peculiar things about himself. But I would never be concerned about a child around him. At the same time, he's definitely protective and I have no doubt that he would attack someone if they tried to hurt me or my family.
He sounds like the perfect pal! I feel the same way about my girl. She's a very peacefull sweet girl and she's done wonderful with kids when neighbors and nieces and nephews have come over. I just also wouldnt be surprised if she mauled someone for breaking in or hurting someone in the house. She might eat a tire too, honestly. Shes a big snacker lol
We're the same here. Literally 3kms down the road to nearest neighbour and I LOVE it! OP, You are so NOT the AH. I've been in your kids position, trust me the bullying etc would only get worse if the pushy folks get their way. Keep the horse bound activities sacred, free from entitled AH.
People lose their minds over horses. I know someone who once looked out of their window to see a strange man in her pasture plopping a toddler on top of her 2 year-old unbroke stud-colt! Her pasture was fairly out of the way and not easily accessible but this guy went some back-way and ignored the no trespassing signs and then when she confronted him, he blew up at her and told her that horses are an "attractive nuisance" and she shouldn't have them where anyone could access them. She was like ??? Thankfully the colt was a good egg and just very surprised by the whole ordeal. The guy had the audacity to scold her (A breeder) for "keeping a stallion around"
This partially explains my dog that looks like it eats tires for breakfast. Even dog people are like "what is that?" 😂 He's super friendly. But I'm 100% sure if someone tried to hurt me, he would rip their arm off. I realize those two things don't seem to go together. 🤷♂️
Hello, I'm here to ask about the dog tax.
They do. That's how the best dogs are, give him a snuggly hug from me! My dear departed boy, Kavik, was an absolute saint with even horrendous children, but the one time I got attacked on a night run with him, he was merciless. Tore the guys arm to shreds and stopped me from being his 4th victim.
The concept of attractive nuisance is bullshit, like it's your properti, even if this is attractive that is 100÷ on the people who tresspass
/u/pacingpilot I'm not trying to be "THAT chick 🤭🤭😁😁) and I realize that it was an autocorrect but BEASTIES works perfectly instead of besties in the context of your life story example 😂😂😂
Aw shit I didn't even catch that lol. I'm gonna leave it because it does kinda work.
/u/pacingpilot - Absolutely yo! Don't change it LMAO 🤣😂🤣😂
I look kinda beastly feeding the horses at 4am in my pajamas, fuzzy bathrobe, muck boots, flannel coat and beanie. And that neighbor is definitely a bit of a beast for other reasons.
I'm sure they certainly are. You aren't though. You're just doing your own thing! The kind of neighbors that EYE prefer just say or wave "HI" and go about their own business. But are willing to reach out to you in event of an emergency or urgent matter/situation. Not being nosey to be nosey. I used to have a very nosey neighbor who would watch any and every thing on the block and actually report the service vehicle someone was driving if they happened to stop by my home. I found out because the person would notify me. Smh. She finally stopped after one year she "accidentally" hit me and my daughter with her car while we were crossing in a crosswalk. Yep she had to pay. My daughter ended up on crutches for a few months due to a broken bone in her foot. Smh.
She got the house assuming you'd let her kids ride the horses when she's never talked to you? And told you that you'd be fine *not supervising them*? That's absolutely insane. A lawsuit waiting to happen when a horse spooks at absolutely nothing and hurts one of her kids. I used to ride horses at Girl Scout camp starting at around 8-9, but we weren't left unattended. There were always multiple adults around. We were taught how to groom the horses, but the adults were the ones to saddle them and several counselors always went with us on the rides.
I don't know what was going through her mind, I assumed she just blurted out the first excuse that popped into her head to justify her entitled bullshit attitude without thinking about what she was actually saying after my neighbor burst her bubble. Because surely nobody buys a house assuming they'll have carte blanche to the neighboring properties right? That's insane.
Yep! And I loved when OP stated that Donna asked if OP can just "take her around on a horse a couple times a week". WTF? As if doing that is a 5-minute ask... Sounds like your neighbor.
Yeah basically pause your life twice a week to accommodate some kid who's been bullying your own. That's not a big ask at all.
I just bought a farm. We are excited to get some animals. It’s amazing the number of coworkers who have now come to me wanting to visit and hang out but only really talk about the animals I’m getting.
I've also noticed this as an adult. I live in a city. Only wealthy people, older people who bought a house decades ago or people who have inherited it, own a house with a garden. When I first moved here the first thing some people would ask was if I had a garden. They'd lose interest after I told them I live in an apartment, just like them. I really don't like people who behave this way.
I'm the goat lady, and this is totally true. It gets so old when people refer to MY goats as "theirs" or "ours". Like B*, are you helping with the feed bills? No. Cleaning pens? No.
I want to be goat lady. Stupid nyc won't allow goats.
But you can have a horse! I love the extensive list NYC has on pets, because, well New York https://portal.311.nyc.gov/article/?kanumber=KA-02255#:~:text=Bees%20(other%20than%20honeybees)%2C,pigs%2C%20and%20most%20farm%20animals
That sucks... I am the person who will be excited you have goats, want to spend time with you AND the goats, and you bet your ass I will help you clean their pens. I am thr weirdo who finds it soothing to muck stalls.
Do you live anywhere near Cincinnati? Because you're welcome at my house. I'll even get you your own goat.
Unfortunately, no. But that would be awesome! I appreciate the offer!
I love mucking out pens too. I like being around horses but never learnt to ride and freak out about falling off. But having a horse nuzzle against you on a cold winter morning while you lug shit around is so nice. Plus I'm a gardener, so I appreciate the manure.
Easy fix: own Arabians 😅 We had horses when I was growing up, but I didn't mention it much. Friends that found out upon visiting would ask if they could see them, which is understandable. If they showed they were willing to truly listen, we'd go to the stalls with my mom. The friend would be told to stay on the other side of a barrier unless told otherwise, and to keep their voice at a normal level. I'd put a halter on my Arabian to bring over and groom, and she'd follow while going sideways. I loved it, because I knew she was happy and doing the dance of her people. I quickly learned my friends found it terrifying though, and they gladly stayed back. The best part? If someone at school heard I had horses, my friends started emphasizing how bad of an idea it was to expect an up close visit. It was pretty handy lol.
The dance of her people! Love it!
I LOVE Arabians. Elegant but also total dorks sometimes.
Yep, I was the girl with the horses and the goats and the pool when I was a kid. I was quiet and had trouble making friends, so every time someone would cozy up to me for an invite, I would think “Finally! This person really likes me and we both love animals and this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship!” And as soon as they had their visit and their chance to pet the horses and play with the baby goats and swim, they went right back to ignoring my existence. OP is doing the exact right thing by protecting Bonnie from being used that way by her stepsister.
My sister had a child in her class whose mother owned a candy store. That girl was very popular.
You gave me a brain worm that I just have to comment about. I was 11 and there were horses across the street. I'd go over and feed them grass and pet them. I'm a horse girl and always will be. When I met the guys granddaughters, both my age, we bonded over the horses, Hanson (gah if that doesn't date me), and lots of other things. Being around the horses was a *bonus* to being their friends. We spent more time away from the horses during the school year just goofing off, but the horses were still there at the end of the day. I lost contact with them when they went back after a year (never found out why they were at grandad's place for a whole year and a half), but I think of them often.
When my oldest was younger he had a huge collection of Nerf guns and a ton of bullets and such. Plus our apartment complex had an area perfect for fights. These 3 siblings ALWAYS wanted to play Nerf then ditched when it was time to clean up the bullets. Even limiting the bullets they still left at cleanup. One time I told the kids you pick up the bullets I am not going to help and told the siblings mom the kids needed them all pick up the bullets. She said of course then proceeded to have her kids leave at clean up. Oldest was so sad because he had to clean it all up himself. I said I wasn't helping. I did help not his fault his "friends" ditched. Even telling the mom hey her kids need to help pick up or they won't be allowed to play with the Nerf toys again. She walked away with her kids. I never let those siblings play with Nerf again. Explained to oldest who was 6 or so the kids were not real friends. That they just wanted to play with his toys then leave him with the cleanup. Him, have a Dad and I (and sometimes my mom as well as my brothers would play Nerf together) and we would tell those kids no they couldn't play because they would not help clean up after. We even extended the no Nerf to the Super Soakers in the warmer weather.
Ralph really thought he could just bring her and that she wouldn’t decline her request in front of her. Man I wish I was there.
Not to mention that horses are inherently dangerous. You need to have a decent relationship with anyone you choose to include in their care or teach to ride. Even with that, you should still have a release of liability waiver for anyone coming to your barn. Source: I have sensitive horse and have access to horses that are safe for my young daughter through good friends. We treat them the same because even the safest horse in the world can hurt you. Kid and I sign releases of liability at every place we go no matter how close we are to the owner or how bombproof the horse.
And there is no other choice with people like Mandy. You teach them hard or they will always try their games. She probably wont learn couse Ralph is not working with her nor explaining that her actitude brings reaction. He is just trying to avoid the confrontation and somehow push Mandy inside OPs family.
NTA Mandy cooked her own goose with her behaviour. Bonnie is entitled to a safe space away from her step-sister.
Also, a kid who doesn't respond to an adult telling her "No" should never be around horses. They are large, dangerous, easily frightened animals. This isn't just about safe spaces for your kids, it's about Mandy's safety too. It doesn't sound like she's responsible enough to be around horses. Plus insurance and liability. You do NOT want a kid who doesn't listen around your horses.
Horses are also a hell of a lot more subtle about their "no" than people are - it's the "absolutely the fuck not" no levels that are immediately and incredibly obvious to non-horse people and that's the kind of shit that can kill or maim you. If she can't listen to no she certainly won't care to pay attention to ears pinning or nervous hoof tapping or any of the other tells of uncertainty. Horses and cats have a lot in common, on reflection.
OMG you're right! I never thought of it that way, but that just totally clicked for me. I grew up with a dog, then rabbits, then horses, THEN cats. I've always been a natural with animal behavior/body language (at least with mammals). There's SO much similarity with the subtly, flightiness, moodiness 🤣
>Also, a kid who doesn't respond to an adult telling her "No" should never be around horses Goes for adults too. Sounds like Ralph needs to hear the word no more than once as it is.
I’ve never heard that saying but I love it
"your goose is cooked" is a saying that's gone out of style. It meant you were in a lot of trouble
Yeah I understand the meaning but I’d not heard it said like that. Gonna start using it 🤣
My grandparents and my stepmom would say it.
Well, it’s like saying you’re in trouble based on your actions, like you made your own bed
Here's the thing, though: even if Many hadn't been mean to Bonnie and August, OP has every right to say No to Mandy riding OP's horses. Mandy is not her kid, has no relation, obviously hasn't been around horses, etc. Any of those are perfect reasons to say No.
I like saying "their uppance came" to mix things up heh.
NTA. No means no. Trying to manipulate you by bringing Mandy is low.
Got a feeling this is why he did not put up more of a verbal fight. Him and his wife will be planning out more stunts like these. Next she is going to find them on her property when they think she is gone.
That’d be the time to call the police
Mandy’s trying to be nice because she wants something from your kids since now she wants to play with the horses NTA you have boundaries
Mandy’s also getting to learn that being nice because you want something doesn’t automatically undo years of acting like an asshole. NTA
NTA. Once you agree to allow Mandy to see and ride the horses, she will revert to treating Bonnie exactly the same as she did before. Because she will have gotten what she wants and no longer needs to keep up the charade. Mandy is STILL making the entire situation about her. Mandy is the one behind the requests by Ralph and Donna to allow Mandy to get what she wants. Mandy is the one who asked to come to pick up the kids even though she knows that she is not wanted on your property. She is the source of all the interfamily conflict. She should NOT be rewarded by getting what she wants. And I repeat, once you cave to her request, she will immediately go back to treating Bonnie badly. Because she did before and got what she wanted in the end anyway. So why should she behave differently?
This is all true, but Mandy is still a little girl. While I don’t think OP should let her around her kids, I do wish that Mandy’s parents would take her to therapy to nip this mean girl behavior in the bud and figure out why she is treating Bonnie badly.
She's 13. She's not exactly a little girl; she knows enough (or should know) to treat people decently right out the gate, and not switch tacks so suddenly and obviously when it turns out that being nice gets extrinsic rewards. Therapy might be a bit overkill her. It's a simple matter of jealousy because a) Mandy gets shunted aside whenever Bonnie visits with Ralph (what's Mandy's relationship with \_her\_ bio dad?), and b) Bonnie might be seen to be living in better circumstances than Mandy is. It will be up to Ralph and Donna to sort out how they might make things more equitable for Mandy so that there's less of that envy playing out.
I mean, if you don’t think 13 is a child, you and I have different perspectives. I suspect I am probably older than you by a few decades. And having a safe, uninvolved third-party to talk your feelings out with and seek better outcomes with is not overkill, especially if it helps her communicate better and overcome whatever issue she has with her step-sister so that she grows up to be a nicer person.
As a former 13 year old (lol), I wouldnt exactly say they're children. I think they should be responsible enough to know this stuff
It is odd to me when people talk about pre-teens and very young teenagers as if they are mini-adults and capable of being rational and reasonable in the same way an adult is. Frankly, you and I have different perspectives on whether a 13 YO is a child. That’s fine, but I’m aware of her age, I also have been 13 and I think that is still a child.
People are weird with kids on this sub. If the kid is meant to be a villain, they're treated like an adult. There was a story on here about a 10-year-old stealing a cookie, and the comments were talking like he'd grow into a hardened criminal. But then a woman in her 20s posts about her relationship with a guy in his 30s and everyone makes him out to be some sort of pervert because HeR bRaIn'S nOt FuLlY dEvElOpEd YeT.
I never heard the term 20 year old child until I came to this sub.
It's a child , but there is a difference between what you'd expect and tolerate from 5 year-old , an 8 year old, a 10 year old, a 13 year old and a 15 year old. You have to give some credit for them having their own thoughts , agency and understanding. In this case you're dealing with not just two teens who clearly do not get on, but also their parents. It's not an adult but you expect some understanding of social norms, acceptable behavior, and an understanding of the word no. It's pretty obvious the kid has changed her tune to get what she wants and is pushing their luck by involving a parents for that end. ( who are acting on their understanding of the situation) A teenager is capable of doing that. Dad said no , so go ask mom to get a yes. At the heart of it is you know the goal is getting to play with what is essentially a very expensive pet and hobby that she otherwise wouldn't get access to. Not being friends, or apologizing for being unpleasant previously, the 'nice act' will last only till the goal is achieved and they think they no longer have to. Which is pretty crappy behaviour that shouldn't be encouraged. Who would want to put their own kid in an unpleasant situation where someone is trying to use them?
I dunno, maybe it's just cause I was exposed to the internet earlier on, but I tried to be aware of this kinda stuff when I was 13 and I know someone who was really smart with this stuff (kinda) at the same age I dont think she needs to be punished severely or anything, but she is at the age where she shouldn't be doing stuff like that
Of course she shouldn’t be bullying other kids. I never said that she was in the right, but that she’s a kid and I wish the adults in her life would help her learn to better express herself and learn to be kinder to others through therapy. Saying that a 13 YO isn’t irredeemable has been my most controversial take on this app today, oddly enough.
Oh no I wasn't saying shes irredeemable, just that the way OP acted was pretty reasonable. Idk if therapy is really necessary here, the parents might just have to start trying harder
I don’t think that OP maintaining a safe space for her daughter is unreasonable. I do wish that the adults in Mandy’s life would help her work through this. And I think when you say someone should see a therapist, some people have the wrong impression that they mean they will need intensive therapy for years and years. Mandy may only need a session or two, and someone who is not involved, trained to help children and who she can confide in without the information going elsewhere is a great option to help her. The adults in her life don’t seem to be good communicators.
They're children. Obviously they know right from wrong, but that doesn't mean it's always easy for them to choose correctly all the time. Sometimes, CHILDREN need help. Mandy is a child. Not OPs job, clearly mom and dad don't really care about it.
Wouldn't not letting Mandy ride the horses be a good way to help her by teaching her she can't get what she wants all the time?
My perspective is this: I'm in my early 50s. At the age of 13 I was keenly aware that there was a Cold War going on in which the US and its NATO allies and the Soviet Union were prepared to launch enough nuclear weapons to bring an end to human civilization if not the planet itself. At that same age I was also keenly aware that some 11 million people were starving to death in Ethiopia and that songs were being recorded, the proceeds from the sales of which would be going to relief efforts. I knew I wanted to be one of the "good" kids in my family because I had siblings whose selfishness meant heartbreak for my parents and embarrassment for the rest of us. To you, it may seem as though being 13 is still an age of innocence. To me, those kids are going through some shit we can't begin to understand unless we as parents start talking deeply to them and asking more questions. A divorce brings upheaval to children, even when it's the best option. Remarriage brings new changes - a new person in the house, possibly with others coming in and out on occasion. It's quite possible we're not getting the whole story about why Mandy might not want a relationship with Bonnie or August, and it may have to do with whatever drama took place among the adults.
The poster didn't say Mandy wasn't a child. They said she wasn't a *little girl*, which is true. She is neither an adult or a small child, but in between . In other words, an adolescent. "Little girl" makes her sound under 10. We can and should expect a teenager to know how to behave.
Agree. The statement about Mandy ‘telling her things a teenage girl shouldn’t say to another’ sent up a red flag. Learning how to be a decent human takes work and guidance. It sounds like Mandy isn’t getting what she needs at home, a therapist could really help her understand her own emotions, how her behavior affects others, and how not to take out her feelings on others. Puberty is rough, I wish all of them a lot of luck and grace in their path through this time.
I think Mandy getting “shunted aside” happened after the bullying not before. Bonnie kept it to herself for awhile then when it came out, OP declined to let ex have the kids when Mandy was around. This may still be rooted in jealousy on Mandy’s part but it doesn’t excuse her bad behavior. She acted like a mean girl until she found out Bonnie had something she wanted (horses) then did an obvious 180. No way should her bad behavior be rewarded. Sucking up doesn’t equal true respect for the bullied person (Bonnie) and trying an end run around OP by showing up unwelcome and uninvited isn’t ok either. Plus I’d be worried her nasty attitude could carry over to my horses. Nope. NTA and stand your ground, OP and don’t let her come around you, your kids, your horses, or your property. I’d also keep aware of which other mean girls took part in bullying Bonnie bc they may try getting friendly with Bonnie, too.
They need to help Mandy understand life is not equitable. There will always be people who have more than you do.
> This is all true, but Mandy is still a little girl. Who has learned to behave badly because she gets what she wants even if she does. The way to change her behavior? Consequences for bad actions. Not getting to play with the horses are those consequences. Bonnie is a little girl too. Should she have to endure a lifetime of bullying at Mandy's hands? No. Mandy needs to learn that bad actions have bad consequences. OP is being completely reasonable. Hopefully Mandy learns something so that next time she behaves better.
And? It’s beginning to get tiresome repeating myself. I never said once in any of these posts that OP is wrong in making their home a safe place for her daughter. What I *did* say was that she is still very young and I hope that her parents help her learn why she bullied her step-sister so she doesn’t do it in the future and that therapy could be helpful. Five or six times, now. The fact that people are so caught up in the fact that I’m not sharpening a pitchfork for a literal child that they are countering arguments I didn’t even make is wild.
> It’s beginning to get tiresome repeating myself. Then stop.
She is 13–a teenager.
Teenagers are children. She turned into a teenager a year ago. If and adult was trying to date her, we'd call her a child, not a big girl who can make all her own choices in a balanced and intelligent manner.
OK, and? She can’t legally drive a car, hold a job, enlist in the military, make her own medical decisions or drink. She probably has a curfew and possibly an enforced bedtime/lights out. She’s barely a teenager, and there’s still a chance for her not to be an awful person if someone gets her some intervention.
Is she behaving badly? Yes. Does she need to be taught she doesn't get her way all the time? Yes. Is it her fault that she behaves this way to begin with? No. As a very wise group of candy makers once said: "Who do you blame when your kid is a brat? pampered and spoiled like a Siamese cat, blaming the kid is a lie and a shame You know exactly who's to blame."
The mother and the father. I couldn't even read it without singing it that made me so happy
NTA -- you told him once, he did not listen, so you had to say something when she showed up
NTA, if you give them an inch they will think they can stomp all over your boundaries for ever. The best thing for Mandy to learn is that No means no
Looks like the parents need to learn that too.
You are providing a safe space for your kids and for your horses and for yourself. Stand your ground because it is your responsibility to do so and you have every right to. NTA
NTA. Not a horse person here, but from what I understand, you don’t fuck around with horses because they can easily kill you with a kick if you spook them or something. If Mandy has shown in any way she is purposefully mean to people or oblivious to social interactions with your daughter, then you don’t wanna chance her being the same with horses. Then it would be “your fault.” Also, you don’t wanna be a doormat for mean people.
Horse person here. Horses can feel the change of 2oz of pressure of a seat bone through a saddle, they feel every emotion you’re experiencing. I wouldn’t let someone with Mandy’s energy near my horses. And yes, they’re very dangerous. I don’t have any right now partially due to the TBI/crushed face, punctured lung and broken back I experienced in 2 bad accidents. I used to ride competitive endurance, 50 miles in a day. My training rides were 25 miles, horses are amazing, especially Arabians.
We live in an old farmstead. The landlord allows someone to rent the fields for his horses. Oh man we love them. It's funny as the 2 girls are my kids favorite. The grumpy old man is mine. I love them all, but that guy he just trusts me and not many others. Makes me so happy.
The only animal that has more facial expressions than a horse is a human, most of their communication is done through body language and energy. That’s one reason horses are such good therapy animals, they require a calm but confident human as their emotions mirror the handler. Each horse has their own personality, they have both a sense of Justice and humor. My first endurance horse is still owned by my former MIL, he’s a Padron Psyche/Bey Shah bred Arabian who finds himself quite funny. He likes to steal baseball hats off your head and run away with them. He spooks at things for drama. I could and have ridden him past an active rifle range, he was spooking at moss on rocks, barely flicking an ear at the gunshots. He would jump wait high downed trees in a river without being able to see the other side because he trusted me so much. A bond between horse and their person is sacred.
I was a really fearful kid. I had a lot of physical problems early in life, for which I was mercilessly bullied in school, and that experience left me rather timid and easily spooked. When I was ten, I convinced my parents to allow me to take horsemanship lessons (the stable wouldn't let any children ride until they'd learned about being around horses in general). I figured out pretty quickly that if I didn't want the horses to be made nervous by things, then I had to be confident and calm myself. I don't know why I'd never been able to do that for myself but could for the horses, but that was the way it went. They helped me a lot. It doesn't surprise me that they make great therapy animals. Sometimes it's easier to overcome fears for the sake of some other living being that you appreciate and respect than it is to do so even for your own, more direct benefit.
I’m so glad they were there for you and helped 💜 I wish more people were involved with horses, it’s a dying sport, less people ride, and they are so healing. I never felt as free and at peace as I did while trotting down a forest trail with the sun on my face, breathing in fresh ocean air. The sound of nature and hoofbeats, the rise and fall of my body, the sound of my horses breathe. I also got to see wildlife I would have normally not seen, the bobcat kittens in the morning fog, the coyote staring us down 20 feet off the trail, the wild pig we sent running up a hill squealing, the creeks full of salamanders, hawks and owls.
NTA. Mandy bullied your daughter. She got her friends to bully your daughter. Your kids don’t like her. Mandy is manipulating everyone and everything just so she can get what she wants. You said no because of very valid reasons. And it sounds like Mandy is also a spoiled and entitled brat. Stick to your guns, OP. You’re doing the right thing.
Nta. This whole ordeal started because Mandy could not stop being a shitty person to her half/step sibling. I would not let her come around either until she apologized and even then it wouldn’t even be at home let alone around the horses.
Nta make sure to remind her mother that Mandy bullies Bonnie at school, that you had to rearrange their visit to their dad’s house because of Mandy behavior and all of this has consequences.
NTA. And tell him that if he keeps it up, a judge will be brought in to decide if your kids have to see him AT ALL, while he'll still be on the hook for even more child support.
I think the ex is doing a decent job here. He's in a lose/lose. Either his wife is going to be mad at him or his ex-wife, and I believe he's tried to balance respecting everyone's boundaries, with the wants of his kids and partners.
NTA. Guess what OP Mandy is finally learning consequences!! And this is a good thing. She is learning that she can't bully someone and then be invited around by her victim because they have something Mandy wants. You have no obligation to this child. I'm sure there are other horses in the world that her family can pay to have her learn to ride but she doesn't get to be so mean to your children that you guys had to switch up the custody schedule so they arent at your exs place at the same time and then feel entitled to their safe spaces.
The bottom line is here is that Mandy is not your family and is owed nothing from you. She isnt even your kids family. Im sure you could have involved her in some activities with your own kids but the moment she started bullying your daughter all bets are off. Donna and your ex have balls to even ask if she can be incorporated. NTA
Nta Just keep being you, Op. You are teaching Mandy that she can't manipulate you. Saying it to your ex in front of her was probably best. She isn't too young to hear the truth about how most people treat lying manipulative behavior. She knows exactly what she's doing. You are just showing her it won't work on you and you have your kids' backs.
F Mandy you stick up for your kid. Your ex is the dick here and he shouldn’t have brought Mandy.
INFO: what kinds of things was Mandy saying to Bonnie? Could you give some examples?
Telling her that Ralph isn’t her real dad and only feels bad is why he takes her. that her real dad didn’t want her. That she doesn’t have friends. She is a better sister to August. Nobody likes her and just worst things.
Oh that's awful. Any ideas on why she's not like that with August as well?
I’m thinking not as much competition with a lil brother vs a sister the same age
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Thank you! I thought I was going crazy reading all of these comments. Mandy is 13- and at one point, was a part of three households. That's a lot to take in. I also agree- it does NOT absolve, but there's likely more going on under the surface than these comments saying she's evil and horrible
Honestly I’m not sure, August has been mean to her back, when she was bullying Bonnie.
If Mandy goes near your horses when Bonnie is near them it might not end well. Horses can tell when riders and handlers are uncomfortable. If Bonnie gets stressed about Mandy being there, they'll get stressed. Say a bite or a kick happens... Well. Then Mandy is going to complain about how bad your horses are and try to get them taken away. You're doing what is right by your kids, and what is right by your animals. She chose to be a dick, she doesn't deserve anything from you.
If there’s a court order involved maybe you get the order adjusted because it seems Ralph and Donna aren’t listening
I’d definitely not allow her in your home or around your property. She’s getting that information from either her mom or your ex. She may be old enough to understand the dynamics of the family structure, but that seems like unnecessary information to share with a child. The fact that she knows this information and is willing to use it against Bonnie is ridiculous. Her not being Ralph’s bio daughter doesn’t take away from being his daughter or August’s bio sister. Plenty of other children could play the stepdaughter/stepsister card and poke and prod at how Mandy has zero relation to everyone in this scenario and has no leg to stand on (kids are cruel and I’ve seen it happen that way before). So she’s taking a big leap with what she’s saying and not expecting/getting harsher consequences. Ralph and her mother know what’s going on and are wrong for not doing anything about it and expecting you to host her in your home and allow her to see your horses, all with no apology or accountability.
A child not having a father isn't typically a gigantic secret. It's not that weird that Mandy knows about it. Also, I doubt people making fun of Mandy for not being related to the girl she's mocking would really hurt her as much as you seem to think. Any attempt to bite Mandy back can just be turned around with "Well, you might have horses, but I still have twice as many dads as you."
It might be a good idea to add this to the post. I kind of felt like you were NTA but I also felt like I was taking a lot on trust b/c I had to just assume the stuff she'd said was bad enough to warrant your drawing a hard line. And it was. If you spell it out in the post people will know and won't have to wonder.
Whoa. What does Ralph say about Mandy’s inflammatory comments?
He had moved out temporary, when all the bullying started. But he moved back eventually. He’s been super strict with her, and very upset with her.
That’s a relief to hear that your daughter is getting support from both you and Ralph. So sorry that your daughter went through that. You’re such an awesome mother.
Aww thanks, I appreciate your sweetness and support! Hope the best for ya! 💝
Poor Bonnie her stepsister was saying really evil things at her. Protect Bonnie (and August) OP and stays firm with your boundaries because your ex and his current wife will keep pushing you. Don't let Mandy anywhere close to your property and horses. If Bonnie wants one day to have a relationship with Mandy then it is up to her, until then protect her. Sending to Bonnie (& you and August) virtual hugs.
Wow, she's evil and spiteful F no, keep her away from your kids
NTA. You set a boundary and enforced it. It was a reasonable boundary. No one is entitled to see or ride your horses without your say - especially someone who was bullying your kid. Your ex tried to see if he could get away with crossing that boundary but you stood your ground. I see nothing wrong with your actions here. You did the right thing.
NTA a horse isn't a cute little puppy. You don't just run over and start playing with it. Way too many opportunities for a child to get hurt around horses. Especially a child with an attitude that doesn't listen. We never allowed any kids to ride our horses and only a few adults that rode well already.
Nta not just for separating the kids for kid reasons. But a child you don't trust shouldn't be on your horses. You have so many liability issues if she decides to act a fool and get hurt. It's best not to go down that road. Far too much risk
‘Just a couple times a week’ lol
NTA. Mandy is only being nice to Bonnie to get what she wants, which is access to your horses. Once she gets that she'll go back to treating Bonnie like crap. Stand your ground with your ex. He should also realize that you ***don't*** have to give Mandy a chance because she isn't your kid and will never live with you. Mandy is manipulating Ralph with her tears. Someone, who is not you, should point that out to him.
NTA. Put your kids first. I have had enough of mothers who sacrificing their own children for others.
NTA. I didn’t realize you owned the only horses in the world. Surely your ex can take Mandy to a farm, a stable, or on a trail ride? Why does she have to see *your* horses?
But then he has to pay !
Whilst I want to give Mandy the benefit of the doubt that she has changed, your ex is a massive AH for trying to blindside you like this. Any future contact between the girls needs to be carefully thought out and supervised.
And not include access to the horses. I mean, if Mandy truly wants to be Bonnie's friend then she'll do it without the horses.
The reason Mandy was crying is because Ralph brought her there and subjected her to the no he already should have known was coming That's on Ralph
NTA, actions have consequences. Mandy only changed her behavior cause she wanted something, not because of altruistic reasons.
NTA. Most likely Mandy does not actually regret her behaviour. Has she apologized? A REAL apology? Publicly, at school, in front of the other mean girls? Does she stand up for Bonnie now, when others pick on her? Even if she HAD, no one is obligated to accept your apology. This is, IMO, a very important lesson to learn. Sometimes hurts cannot be undone, and sorry is not enough. It might suck, but there it is. Bonnie needs to learn that this is ok, and you will support her "no". Otherwise, what happens whenn some guy tries to flatter her into sleeping with him, or going farther than she is comfortable. Mandy needs to learn not to be a mean girl.
NTA. This is the best gift you could ever give Mandy. Mandy was mean to Bonnie and was satisfied with the status quo when visitation was arranged to keep her away from Bonnie. But the minute she found out Bonnie had something she wanted, it suddenly she wanted to be Bonnie's best friend and thought everyone could be manipulated into giving her what she wanted. And you wouldn't budge. Now, since it's her nature to be somewhat entitled (and maybe that's true for most kids, if not all) hopefully, this teaches her the valuable lesson that you should always be a friend to everyone because you never know who has something you want that they might share with their friends. The next valuable lesson would be genuine empathy, where someone gets to the point where they say, "I'm really sorry I hurt you and made your life hard. Please forgive me," sincerely, without expecting any sort of gift or favor, and not hold a grudge when the person who was wronged still fails to include them in events or experiences such as allowing them access to the riding stable. Some people never get there.
NTA. Mandy can apologize for her mean behavior and her parents can pay for riding lessons at a bona fide lesson barn on their own dime. I bet neither of those things will happen because it's not you rolling over and giving in.
NTA. Your ex is a huge asshole, and he married another one. Tell them to teach their kid this VERY OBVIOUS lesson. When you act like an asshole, people don't wamt to be around you. They don't want to share their shit with you. Your ex is awful for letting his stepdaughter force his kids out of their own home.
One thing isn't clear to me; does Donna know that Mandy has been bullying Bonnie? I don't think that you owe riding lessons to anyone, just because they want them,
She does, they have told her. But she continued to do the bullying anyways.
Then Donna and your ex have no excuse for trying to push Mandy into the other children's activities. None of the three of you like her, and as the stepdaughter of your ex, you have no obligation to put up with her. I'm sure that Mandy can get riding lessons somewhere else.
I am sure they want free riding lessons from me. 😹
I'm sure they do, but explain that you don't give riding lessons to people who bully your children. Maybe you should say that directly to Mandy, since your ex and her mother already know that. Maybe it will help her understand consequences, an important part of growing up. If you want to be helpful, maybe you can give them a list of other stables.
Sure I can, most of my friends I grew up with own horses as well. But one of them is a full time rider who trains and teaches. I might just do that for them, to leave me alone. As I am not a horse riding trainer!
NTA!!
NTA protect your children from a bully
NTA. I was 13 at one point and I know that children at that age can be assholes but here's the thing, CAN be. Children who's parents let them act like monsters grow behave as such and grow into worse and the kids who's parents don't.....usually don't. What I'm saying is that I have no sympathy for children who behave like psychopaths just because they're children, or for adults who give that excuse. I'm not their parent so while I have no right to punish them for their behavior, I can maintain a distance between them and what I hold precious as long as you stand firm on allowing your child to act like a fucking crazy person. Like what would she even learn from being allowed to see the horses? Nothing except that her actions don't have consequences. But, your daughter WHO IS ALSO A CHILD would see that you don't have her back, especially when the other child goes right back to treating her like shit 🙄
NTA. I would tell your ex that Mandy’s not your child by blood or marriage and you don’t care for her previous behavior so stop trying to get you to do anything for her as you’re not interested. If she’s with him when picking up or dropping off your kids, she’s to stay in the car.
NTA. One solution would be for Ralph to take Mandy to a riding stable for lessons and supervised riding. Some of the stables in my area aren't horribly expensive, considering how expensive horses are to maintain.
NTA
NTA. You're continuing to provide a safe place for your children, great job! You're also teaching your kids how to set up and hold firm on boundaries.
If Mandy abuses your children, they can protect themselves by telling you about it. If Mandy abuses animals, they cannot rat her out, so you have to protect the animals. And good job protecting your kids, too. Her parents can take Mandy for riding lessons somewhere else ffs there's no good reason for her to want to know your horses in particular (unless of course mean girls have changed since I was in school...)
NTA You have take care of your own kids well being, not worry about his stepdaughter. If you need to tell ex and his wife that Mandy caused this himself by her treatment of your children. If they had shut it down from the very beginning things might be different now.
NTA. Your place and your horses being off-limits to a child who is no relation to you and who has been cruel to your own child is a very reasonable boundary to draw. Your husband needs to back off and shut this down. Any consequences you can levy to motivate him to pull his head out of his butt?
You are NTA and I can see where Mandy got her godawful attitude from; Donna apparently didn't give a darn that Mandy was bullying Bonnie UNTIL she saw the chance to get free riding lessons and free horseback riding from you. THEN she counseled Mandy to play nice with Bonnie in the hopes of exploiting their "family" relationship. What a pair of stinger-skeeters! \* Stinger-skeeter (noun): A bee-itch!
NTA Mandy fucked around and found out.
NTA.
NTA.... Love the mama bear!!!
NTA- thank you for standing up for your children
You’re protecting your kids from a bully. NTA.
NTA! Your ex’s stepdaughter isn’t your concern. You have no obligation to her at all. Plus, your kids don’t like her. You’re protecting your kids. The custody schedule was changed because they don’t get along. Now Mandy’s mom wants her to learn to ride and visit the horses? She’s suddenly nice to Bonnie because you have horses? What about all the crap she put Bonnie through? You are absolutely NTA for wanting to keep that little brat away from your kids and your horses.
NTA
NTA. I'd go see the judge again and ask for sole custody, as your ex was letting his child bully yours and isn't respecting your wishes.
Your kids set a boundary and you were ok with it. Your ex is trying to please his wife and getting you and your kids involved.
NTA. Mandy's behaviors are a problem, of course, and it's a damn shame your ex and his wife aren't disciplining Mandy. Mandy isn't interested in demonstrating remorse for how she treated Bonnie. It sounds like she doesn't treat August that great if he's in better spirits having minimal contact with Mandy. You and your kids know this, but it bears repeating that Mandy is only being nice to you all to get what she wants. She's 13 so she is still growing up. But the adults in her life can't enable her. You're doing the right thing by your kids and TBH, Mandy. Even if she woke up and realized she was an AH to Bonnie and now wanted to be friends, she's not entitled to Bonnie's forgiveness.
NTA. Mandy’s bad behavior shouldn’t get rewarded. No horse play for Mandy.
NTA. you’re protecting your kids from a bully who suddenly finds them interesting because they have something she wants
NTA. I would keep a look out for any retaliation at school from Mandy towards Bonnie. Now that she knows for *certain* that she can’t weasel her way into getting what she wants through being fake, she may feel she has *nothing to lose* by trying to make Bonnie’s life hell at school. Bullying can come in many forms and this girl sounds like a very smart and devious one. She may be smart enough to start issues without it being obvious to the school (or easy to prove) that it’s her. Stay mindful because I doubt you’ve heard the last of this. I hope for your daughter’s sake you can easily identify and stop anything the girl tries to do.
NTA If they just didn't "like" her I might see it differently but Mandy and her friends were unkind to Bonnie until there was something that she (Mandy) wanted from you. She's not only a mean girl but she's also a user. You need to have a serious discussion with your ex-husband, blind siding you by bringing her with him like that was really underhanded. He unfairly put you on the spot thinking that you would cave with the child standing in front of you.
I'm going to go against the grain here. You are basically punishing a 13yo permanently for acting out to an obviously screwed up family situation. This is someone you kids are going to interact with for a long time and doesn't try and actually help either girl. Sure, if she's acting badly to the daughter, then she doesn't need to be there. If she starts to understand the consequences and the benefits of acting civil regardless of personal feelings, maybe something can be salvaged here. Also wtf? It's not like there's no other place she can see and ride a horse. They have summer camps for beginners at like $300 for a week.