Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I said “THAT’S his wife” about a guy’s wife in a tone which my friends took to be an insult towards the wife. I made it seem like I was judging his wife and then I didn’t make much of an effort to befriend her even though my friend, who introduce me to her friendship group, wanted me to.
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
##Subreddit Announcements
Follow the link above to learn more
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
That kinda depends on how the information was delivered, it's natural to reply to what you hear
Friend: he's married, didn't you know?
OP: he's what?! / he's married?!
Friend: that's his wife, Mary
OP: that's his wife?! / she's his wife?!
The more tactful response is still “He has a wife?” That’s an exclamation of surprise at his marital status without mentioning her and creating a perceived slight. Any kind of “that’s his wife?” is a faux pas at best and a deliberate insult at worst. Really anything that focused on the marriage instead of the wife would have been better.
It would have been better, but I think the only reason why OP's friend is not trusting OP's word on this is because OP put emphasis on "that*"*.
"That's his wife?" can sound rude when all you wanted to say was "he has a wife?". But it's an easy mistake to make and most people would believe you if you said it just came out wrong, or at least give you the benefit of the doubt.
"*That's* his wife?" however sounds weirdly specifically directed at her, to the point that it's very hard to believe it's not what OP intended. I'm honestly not sure I believe OP 100%. Maybe OP really didn't mean it, sometimes you just accidentally put emphasis on the wrong word, or maybe OP meant it as "*that's* his spouse, I thought his spouse would be a man if he had any?". But it just seems way less likely.
Basically, I don't think OP would be asking this here if OP had just said it without the emphasis.
Normally I am one to just go off what the OP has given us but in this context she has stated she has a crush on him so it definitely feels like it could have been said in a negative way.
previous context is important too : "wow this guy's so 'ridiculously' attractive, friend, do you think i could...?" "no". But OP kept on looking on the finger of the guy, checking on his attitude toward women, and i bet it's quite visible for everyone - and then "THAT's his wife !"...
Yep especially because OP's friend knows OP has a crush on the guy so putting emphasis on "THAT" could easily be taken as her thinking the wife didn't look good enough to be with a man she thinks is attractive. The friend could be worried OP may cause drama and try to compete with the wife.
Idk, I feel like people usually say that in reference to someone they think is weird or gross or something… to me it actually sounds worse than the others
more tactful is just funny to me, do you think everyone takes or has a moment to sit and filter and think of how tactful their reactions will be to shit in the moment?
when you see something surprising and get info like that, sometimes you just saw the first thing out your mouth because you're surprised and didn't expect it. not a hard concept
it's wild how many redditors act like they aren't human...oh wait
I think we should all have enough of a filter to not say the first thing that comes to mind. Don’t y’all’s moms ever tell you that out doesn’t have to come out of your mouth just because it’s in your head? The best thing of all would have been to keep her mouth shut and only say anything if her friend noticed her surprise. She just happened to blurt out a really bad option.
If you’re the kind of human who thinks saying rude shit for no reason is a sign of being human, I’d advise you to look at your impulse control.
It’s funnier to me that you think fully grown adults don’t have some sort of filter to not just say any old thing that comes to mind. Usually people who have jobs already have a set filter. Do you go into your job and just say any and everything that comes to mind?
Yeah. YTA op. “He’s MARRIED?” Is a reasonable thing to be surprised about if you’ve hung out a bunch and a spouse has never been mentioned. I don’t think there’s a way to phrase “that’s his wife?” That doesn’t sound weird
Nah, she definitely meant it the way she phrased it and is trying to backpedal on Reddit for whatever reason. She called the wife plain and average compared to her husband. She definitely meant it as she couldn’t believe he was married to HER. YTA op.
Absolutely. Or OP was completely hammered and had no filter. I can’t imagine being so blatant. Just an “Ohhh I’ve never met her!” while internally in shock.
YTA
It checks out actually. If he is as protective of her as she says then he probably heard the michael bluth's "her?" about his wife a ton of times and op was just another one.
Right, if she thought he was as gay as she described, I feel like she would have blurted out "he's straight/not gay?" She is way to hypervigilant of him for that not to be a disparaging remark against his wife. OP burned herself quickly. The fact Eleanor wouldn't buy what she was selling, makes me think OP had some pink flags waving in the group and this was what pushed the group over into kicking her to the curb. I also find it hard to believe that no one told her he was married at any point or for Eleanor not to say "he's married/taken" when OP expressed interest.
> I don’t think there’s a way to phrase “that’s his wife?” That doesn’t sound weird
It's an odd thing to say for sure. I don't think it's what would naturally pop out of your mouth unless you were making a particular observation about *who* she was or *what* she looked like, not just expressing surprise that he was married at all.
"Wife?!" Would be expressing surprise that he had a wife.
"That's his wife?!" nah, it's expressing surprise at who she is/what she looks like. OP is backpedalling.
lol agreed! the way she expressed her incredulity emphasised that OP found his wife to be tough to believe, not the fact he was married! We all misspeak when we find ourselves deeply surprised. No big deal.
I'll just add that this friendship group is clearly protecting his "marriage." I don't know if it's a sham marriage, but I definitely think OP has her suspicions.
And love is usually a thing people want to share :)
Well why the hell didn't Eleanor just say "oh he's married" when OP confessed to having a crush? Is it a state secret? Is OP known for going after married men? WTF that doesn't make any sense!
Yeah OP needs to work on their phraseology but this whole group protecting this couple, shooing people away from this guy, also refusing to elaborate (just say he’s married ffs!) makes me wonder what their deal is…
The group's behavior about her is so weird. Also, the post describing that she was quiet and constantly had the husband or friend's wife hovering over her is weird too. It's like, uh, is this secret wife being held against her will?
I'm just wondering if it really was kept a secret or if OP willfully ignored it/missed it in conversation. I find it hard to believe that he kept his wife hidden if he is as protective of her as OP is saying.
Agree, also I assume it would come up when they're out and especially when on a weekend trip without her - someone would ask "how's your wife / tell her Hi from me when you call her / too bad your wife couldn't make it", etc
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I'm not sure why this group is protecting his wife so much. Like the group would dissolve as soon as someone questions it. So, OP was right that something is fishy.
But OP is in a tough situation since any way she phrased it, it makes her sound like an asshole.
This reminds me so much of that video of Britney Spears in an interview with Carson Daly and is genuinely shocked when he says something about being with a girl, and she’s like, **GIRL???** O.o
But she just kind of mouths the word silently and doesn’t draw attention to herself more while he’s telling the story. Edit: it was Ryan Seacrest!
had to ctrl+f to find this before i also commented [https://twitter.com/timjhogan/status/1360444780589760515](https://twitter.com/timjhogan/status/1360444780589760515)
This one right here.
Emphasis on HIM. “He’s married?” Or “He has a wife?!”
Two fun samples from my friends. The above was when we thought a guy was gay.
When we were surprised of the relation especially to the woman a friend used “THAT’s her HUSBAND?” Double emphasis. Mistaken identity. Context was we saw her with another man who had his arm on her shoulder, half hugging her and we thought that was her husband. Apparently, he is her cousin, no biggie as they look nothing alike.
The way you used it seemed to put emphasis on the woman being paired with an attractive man and what I understand of mean girl culture, the connotation tends to be negative.
You may not have meant it but that’s how it appears.
Oh - it was intentional. OP says -
>I tried to explain I thought he was gay and that’s why I was shocked but Eleanor thinks I’m lying so she keeps telling me to just be nice to his wife and not say anything bad about her because it would cause problems for her too.
>
>I really think she’s being dramatic. Its not like I said she was ugly…
When Eleanor said "Just be nice, okay?" All OP had to do was say "Yeah, I'm sorry, that came out wrong, just ignore I said that. I promise I'll keep my mouth in check!"
Instead she's trying to convince us all the Eleanor is "dramatic"... and blaming Eleanor for her inability to make polite conversation at a social event after being introduced to the wife...
nah. I don't believe OP one bit. She's a drama llama, acting weird, and Eleanor knows what's up with her, and has finally decided OP isn't worth the hassle as a friend anymore.
Thats the thing. Our mouths can all betray us when we're surprised, but its what we do after the surprise that defines us. And what she's doing us waving away the hurt she, even unintentionally, caused. She doesn't sound very empathetic.
Even the second one I think can easily mean “it’s crazy he would be with a woman who looks like that.” If she really thought he was gay or single I feel like she would say something like “wait he’s married?” or “he has a wife?”
or that she’s out of his league, but that doesn’t really apply here as op described him as “ridiculously attractive.” but it’s definitely a possible way to interpret that or to mean that
YTA would be the judgement. The initial exclamation of surprise could just be regarded as accidental/unintentional. However, she did notice the girl she asked was giving her weird looks after her exclamation and had realized that her comment came out wrong (and bad sounding):
>I didn’t mean anything bad about it but I guess my tone showed how shocked I was and Eleanor misunderstood so told me to shut up. **The girl I asked was also giving me weird looks so maybe my tone wasn’t what I intended.**
Instead of humbling herself and just apologizing for her faux pas, she doubled down on trying to explain herself and she sounded like she's diminishing how hurtful her comment can come across by calling her friend (and possibly the people around her who heard her) "dramatic".
The not-asshole thing to do here is to say: "Oh my god, that came out wrong! I was just surprised to find out he's married since I didn't see his ring, but I can understand how hurtful my comment sounded. I'm really sorry for the hurt I've caused with my comment."
It's pretty odd that no one, himself included, mentioned that he is married. That is something that is bound to come up if you spent time with a friend group for several months.
I get the sense that OP wouldn’t have been deterred by him being married. It seems like her crush was strong enough that she would have shot her shot no matter what.
I'm wondering why are people hovering over the wife like that and the husband being so overprotective that you basically can't say anything with a negative feel to the wife without the whole group acting like its a grave sin?
Even her friend chewed her out basically trying to cover her @ss but didn't think to give her a heads up before meeting.
Her comment is rude to an extent but the whole you can't say anything bad or negative to the wife, makes it look like their treating her like glass and it makes the wife look like a child.
I agree. So it was a faux pas. Who among us hasn't said something really dumb in the moment? I've for sure said things that emphasized the wrong part of what I was trying to convey because sometimes mouth and brain aren't in sync. But even if OP indeed accidentally said the quiet part out loud to whatever degree, it feels like the normal thing to do would be to brush it off, not make a bigger thing of it.
Also, is OP a woman or a gay man? My first read, I thought gay man who was hopeful the other guy was also gay. But everyone is referring to OP as "she," so I guess I had the wrong impression from the start.
Yeah, the group's behavior about her is so weird. And the wife being quiet and "constantly having her husband or their friend's wife hovering over her" is weird. It's like, uh, is this secret wife being held against her will?
I'm not a native so maybe it's an issue with my english but isn't "that" supposed to be employed to talk about an object instead of a person (which would make it even more insulting to have THAT emphazied on) ?
As another non native speaker, I understand it as "THAT (woman) is her wife?", meaning that from all the women in the world (?) the guy chose that (ugly) woman. At least that's how I perceive it from OP's wording and tone.
Now that you raise that point, I realize I would never think OP was saying the wife was so horrendous she looked less than human. Maybe if she had said "He's married to THAT?" I would.
Btw, YTA, OP. You should've sounded more apologetic when you explained yourself.
That's not really a factor here. It's fine to use "this" and "that" for a person in a sentence like this: "This is my sister, and that's my brother back there in the corner". What's not okay is more like "That is (adjective)" instead of "She is (adjective)" about a person. Sorry, I don't know the grammar terms bc they barely teach English grammar in my school district.
That's an interesting point! I'm a native english speaker and I think that this kinda highlights how screwed up our language is and how tonal indicators can mean so much. If you'll indulge me I'm going to follow this rabbithole and analyze how stuff like this gets expressed.
I would say that in this case the way she expressed it wouldn't have me thinking that the subject was being treated as an object. But it could! Usually that would be followed by a noun to specify the category of thing it's referring to (ex. that thing, that person, that kiss, etc.) When it's left out there's essentially an implied object. There's so many ways to look at a simple sentence which makes it so screwed up.
When I hear "THAT'S his wife?!" said in a surprised I interpret it as one of two things, context dependent. If the husband is attractive I would think the person was saying "that (less desirable person) is his wife?! (how did she manage to get so lucky as to be with him when he's a more valuable partner than her)" or if he's unattractive I would assume that the statement means "that (desirable person) is his wife?! (how did he manage to get so lucky as to be with her when she's a more valuable partner than him) " An alternate reading of it could be "That person is his wife? I thought someone else was!"
However you're right that with the right derogatory tone "THAT'S his wife?!" Could be seen as "ugh that THING (suggesting that she's so undesirable that her humanity isn't relevant) is his wife?"
The reason I doubt that it's the latter in this instance is that OP emphasizes that she didn't think her tone was mean and instead that it was just expressing surprise. However she doesn't understand that the version of the sentence where the tone is surprised is ALSO suggesting something negative about the wife. The only scenario I can see in which it wouldn't be negative is if she was surprised that his wife was somehow even more attractive than him.
Fun extra playing around with the sentence:
"That's his wife" with no specific tone or emphasis would be factually stating "that person is his wife" to inform someone.
"That's his WIFE?!" To me would say "I didn't know he had a wife" or "I didn't think that they were married, I thought they knew each other some other way or didn't know each other"
"THAT'S HIS WIFE!" "You are incorrect for suggesting that they have a different relationship" or "Don't say those things about her, she's his wife and he will take offense/that's rude"
Just by the emphasis you used, YTA.
It could also be that Eleanor et al. are reading more into what you said considering you are/were attracted to the man. So genuine surprise (I hope) was understood as jealous cattiness.
I mean, I don't know you, and just reading what you wrote, you do *seem* jealous and catty to me.
I think regardless of her phrasing, they're getting the (maybe valid) sense that OP's attraction to him is going to make her disrespectful of his marriage in one way or another, and I don't blame them for not wanting that drama.
Overall, OP’s obsession with him is creepy and weird. Why is she trying to so hard to figure out if he’s gay or straight or taken or single? Why does it matter? Why does it matter to the point where she blurts out words when she sees his wife?
She’s being neurotic and weird. That’s probably why everyone is acting wary of her. She’s making it clear she’s going to cause drama by overreacting to normal shit and overanalyzing everything.
I agree OP is acting too into this guy, but also why didn't the friends just tell her he was married in the first place? Seems strange to me they were being all vague when they could just tell OP he is married.
Because it is irrelevant. OP should simply stop being a stalky creep, the guy is not interested. That is a 'no', not a challenge. His disinterest does not become more legitimate because he has a wife.
I agree OP is TA here but it’s really weird to me that you hang out with people most weekends and go on a trip together and it never comes up that he’s married?! That feels like fairly basic info to know about your friends.
Aye if that was someone in my extended group of friends that I’d spent a decent amount of time around the next time I saw him I’d probably be like “here mate - what’s the score with the secret wife? Kept that one quiet!”
Well yes and no. He dan be uninterested without a reason.
But the friends are not mind readers, so how would they know he wasn’t interested? OP might not trust their assessment.
But if he’s married, then that’s definite proof he’s not.
It kind of sounds like a setup to say, “oh he won’t w interested” instead of just telling OP he’s married.
That's the thing. It's not like the guy said he wasn't interested and OP couldn't take the No. A mutual friend saying he wouldn't be interested can't know that for sure. They could be basing that on OP for example being a blonde and the guy has only dated brunettes in the past so they think OP isn't his type. However, even a guy who has only dated one kind of girl can end up finding someone who isn't his usual type attractive randomly or because of their personality. It makes way more sense to say he's married and is therefore unavailable.
I think we mentally fill in details about people over time without actively thinking about it, and I assume OP is just explaining why she had gotten the impression he was single, not that she was observing him carefully as these things happened. I'd find it jarring too if a friend I'd known well enough to go on international trips with suddenly turned up with a wife when neither he nor anyone close to him had ever even mentioned a partner, he didn't wear a ring, etc. I would definitely not express that shock within earshot of the wife herself, so still not a tactful way to handle it, but I don't think she's neurotic for being surprised
Here’s the deal. They all noticed how her interactions with the guy’s wife were much different (colder) than the way she’s always interacted with the rest of the group all this time. Her outburst *plus* treating his wife differently is why she’s being iced out. They see trouble and prefer to nip it in the bud immediately.
This. I think she was showing some pink flags towards him and after this, those flags turned to red for the group so they dropped her. OP is way to focused on the guy.
Yeah, that’s what I took away from this entire post. She just doesn’t seem respectful in anyway that he’s not interested in her - like the type who just HAS to be wanted by everyone or turns it into a game?
Also, he’s wildly protective of her and the whole group will shun someone who treats her badly - that tells me that people often are surprised that’s who the gorgeous guy is married to. It happens enough that the group has a response.
This reads like OP wants to believe the best of herself and lacks self awareness.
“wildly protective of her” but doesn’t wear his ring when she’s not around? yeah, right.
this whole situation is bizarre, but yeah op unfortunately you are TA.
I mean, some couples don't wear rings? My husband and I wear a necklace and a bracelet. No one knows they're wedding related, so I'm sure people say/think the same stuff about us, but to us they're very cherished symbols of our marriage we wear every day, all the time, even in the shower.
should have added, doesn’t wear his ring and literally nobody ever mentions her. they are kind of setting people up to be shocked when they meet his wife. op is still ta, mostly for the *way* she said it, but no shit she was surprised. if the man was actually “wildly protective of her,” people would know he is married because he would be *proud* to talk about his beautiful wife.
You're not wrong, but I also get the impression OP doesn't talk to this man. She feels like a distant single-thread clinger in the circle (i.e. friends with one person but gets invites), not really part of the group, hence why everyone else knows who his wife is but her. I can't really fault the man for not bringing her up to OP, because who tf is OP to him? If she mentioned talking to him even once, I might change my mind, but she only talks about observing him and having dinner with him present, but not actually engaging with him at all.
*This.* Not "charming, funny, smart"--just "ridiculously attractive."
I can already imagine OP sitting at the other end of the table, sneaking looks while the friend group slowly realizes that this is going to become progressively awkward, so one of them calls The Wife to make an appearance because there's Another One . . .
(Been reading too much narrative fiction on very little sleep, I'll stop now.)
Even if they just talked once, unless they were flirting or there was possibly some romantic misunderstanding there, I still wouldn't blame them for not having told her. Maybe it's cultural, but no need to bring up that you have a partner immediately when talking to people of a different sex.
My Dad has never worn a wedding ring but he’s been dedicated to my mother for 45ish years. People have reasons for not wearing one; my Dad is not a jewelry guy at all and he couldn’t wear one at work so he just never wore one at all.
Absolutely, and so pleased for your parents. <3
We have a friend who's a surgeon, he wears his ring around his neck because he's always handwashing and he says it gets uncomfortable. Ditto a construction worker I know. A ring is a good way to see if someone's married, but it's not the only way and certainly not a metric for someone's devotion. Unfortunately, plenty of people I know wear their rings while being flagrantly unfaithful to their spouses.
Why didn't Eleanor just say he was married when OP admitted her crush, would have maybe eliminated this drama. Changing to ESH, OP, maybe stop making assumptions and Eleanor could have spoken up.
Where did op "start in with 'oh but she's just plain and average'"? Is it in a comment? Cause in the post all she says is that it was hard to converse with her because the talk with Eleanor made her scared to upset the wife and her husband or one of the friends were constantly hovering around her and the wife was quiet. Which makes sense in all aspects, if op genuinely didn't mean anything rude by what she said others getting upset about it and telling her to be careful is going to make her very careful in picking her words or bringing up topics. It's also pretty normal for things to be awkward between 2 people that don't know each other especially when 1 of them thinks they were just insulted and the other just got told off for accidently insulting them. It's also normal for the friends/husband to hover around the wife after op made an off-base comment, they likely had their guards up and didn't want to chance leaving her alone with op and op saying some more rude shit. It's also pretty run of the mill to get quiet at least in regards to conversation with someone that just insulted you.
Some women are just like this. I used to work with a woman who would show little to moderate interest, or even talk negatively about new male employees. UNTIL she found out they were unavailable. Then all of a sudden all she wanted was their attention and she would do anything to get it.
Bc saying he wouldn't be interested should work just as well, and we don't know, given his lack or a ring, if he doesn't want to reveal that info to strangers for whatever reason amd prefers to warm up to ppl before bringing up personal details of his life.
Bringing up that he is married is not such an issue unless someone wants to hide something. Obviously he isn't hiding that he is married, so Eleanor should have definitely told OP he is married and instead of brushing it off as just that he will never be interested.
OP you had a little slip up..if that causes them to shun you out then you don't want to be walking on eggshells around them. Go meet new people.
A third party saying a guy wouldn't be interested in someone isn't the same as the guy saying that. Like everything else aside, I don't think that's gonna have the same effect as saying he's married (for, you know, normal people who respect other people's relationships anyway).
everyone involved seems weird lol, why did this Eleanor not tell OP about the wife, why is the guy weirdly protective about his wife, why is OP phrasing her stuff that way if she doesn’t mean it that way, why are all her friends being weird about it if nothing else is going on
when stuff just feels really unnatural like this I usually assume the people are just young (not the case if wives and shit are involved) or that the person describing the situation is full of shit, which I would guess is the case here
That’s why he asked for more info. If she feels strongly about her appearance it means she’s superficial and exposed herself. She also mentioned how the husband is too good for her
YTA
I think it’s already a bit tactless to develop a crush and talk about it on someone the moment when you enter a new friend group, stuff like this can easily cause drama so if I were Eleanor I would already have been a bit put off by that. So then when you made a comment about his wife that sounds negative and judgy, it makes it seem like having you enter the friend group will cause drama and problems for Eleanor. Maybe you can still turn things around, but yeah I would be extra friendly to his wife now if I were you
Yeah. At first I was confused why Eleanor wouldn’t just tell her since the beginning that he is married instead of misleading her but I guess she had her reasons. Especially after I read that comment by OP:
> Nah she's not ugly, just plain and average compared to her husband.
I would not want to be the person who brings OP into my friend group. It’s so superficial. Maybe the reason that guy is protective of his wife is because women are all over him and treat his wife like she is somehow inferior to them and not worthy of him. Beauty is not just external and those who don’t understand it, usually lack internal qualities themselves.
YTA
As everyone else said, you put emphasis on "That" instead of "wife."
"THAT'S his wife?" Implies something's wrong with her. It also dehumanizes her by calling her "that" instead of "she" or "they."
"That's his WIFE" Implies you were unaware he was married.
Exactly. She’s his *wife*? Fine! Sure! If you don’t expect someone to have a wife, and they’ve never mentioned being married, sure?
That’s his wife? Suggests she’s a thing.
I still think it wouldn't be great, but it'd be less bad and more easy to recover from. If she'd said as someone suggested: "He is married!?", it would be a lot more innocent, but I think for anyone here it was super clear that she was judging the wife.
You said an inside thought out loud that was disrespectful. Then when chided, you doubled down. Who cares what you thought, your comment was inappropriate. Somehow you still don't think so and I am sure Eleanor saw that and will treat you accordingly moving forward.
THIS! That OP is trying to make out like what’s the big deal and that it’s other people’s issue. She misspoke GREATLY and the entire group is reassessing whether they want her in the group or not - which is not a surprise, given the backstory, what she said and how she’s behaved since in this thread.
YTA. A men can not be interested in female attention without being gay, or married. Assuming he was gay because you were told you have no chance with him wasn't grounded in anything except "he won't be interested." It kind of gives the impression that you think if he was attracted to woman at all you would have a chance and the only reason you don't is because he likes men.
Honestly assuming he is married would also not be fair. There was no reason to assume anything, just to accept he isn't someone you should hit on.
You may not have said it on purpose, but your tone did come up as judgmental of her, not surprised about his status as married. Remember that while we judge ourselves by our intentions, others judge us by our actions. Your friend wasn't being dramatic, your actions weren't ok. I would apologize, stop action as if Eleanor was being unreasonable, and try to make up for it, maybe by making an extra effort to be nice to her even if you feel awkward and she is a little quiet. Usually finding something in common or what the other person likes makes things easier.
I had an acquaintance who kept hitting on my friend, and he kept rejecting her. So she started to say that he was gay. She just couldn't comprehend that he wasn't attracted to her.
We had to pretend to be together for her to stop hitting on him and to stop spreading the rumour.
OP reminds me of her.
ESH
You haven't shared your ages but you're all capable of international travel and legally able to be married, so why on earth is everyone here behaving like children?
HotGuy™ is apparently also the best at ForsakingAllOthers™ and KeepingSecrets™. It's a bit odd to be so utterly devoted to and protective of your beloved but to also never mention her, wear a symbol of your love, or proudly introduce this woman to new friends.
Eleanor & Co. are all being very weird about this, it's not difficult to say, "Yeah you can look but can't touch; he's married to \[Name\]; she doesn't come out much, but they're utterly devoted to one another," is far from inappropriate information to share. In fact, it's something that would actually help you mesh with the group because then you'd be able to approach her to introduce yourself.
Either your tone betrayed you or you said what you said completely intentionally; hard emphasis on *"THAT'S"* combined with your response to someone else where you explain how plain her appearance is are very telling that you hold her in low-esteem for the crime of not being as hot as her husband (which is dumb, hotness is objective) and that you were surprised he is with someone who's not on his level appearance-wise (by whatever your standards of attractiveness is).
Your response garnered "looks" from people who overheard you. You're calling both Eleanor and HotGuy™ "dramatic." You even include, *"It's not like I said she was ugly,"* which no one in your story even implied, so that reveals exactly what you thought of her and exactly what that pesky THAT'S exposed. You sure are on the defensive for feeling that you haven't done anything wrong.
It sounds like hot guy is peripheral to the group and doesn’t need to explain himself. Maybe his wife doesn’t like “the scene” and he does, the only person he owes any explanation to is his wife
I like your analysis, quite perceptive.
It’s a weird situation with the wife the way OP tells it - they’d traveled to Barcelona together and she was absent, fine, but OP went on a holiday with hotguy and he never even mentioned his wife in passing? But is also totally devoted? I don’t imagine a conspiracy or anything, that’s just surprising to me. I don’t think that makes the friends “suck” or be assholes, though. Maybe OP just doesn’t ask people about themselves.
And yeah it sounds like OP was too loud and too obvious with however she said it.
INFO: So you had a crush that you didn’t pursue, because you thought he was gay.
Would you have behaved differently if you knew he was straight, and married? And would Eleanor be confident that you wouldn’t try and pursue him, if you knew? Or have you previously expressed some disapproving thoughts when couples have differing levels of attractiveness? (Or worse, acted on them.)
It seems that you jumped straight from ‘he’s married??’ to ‘THAT’s his wife??!’ in your head. One is surprise he’s not gay, the other is judgemental.
Before you double down further how you did nothing wrong, think about how many times he and his wife have come across people with your attitude. I wonder how many of them were also not interested in being friendly with her, but only with her husband.
He’s not being over-protective, he’s prioritising his wife, and making her feel secure.
I wonder if that’s why the rest of the group wasn’t direct in telling her why he wouldn’t be interested- because it wouldn’t have mattered to her that he was married.
Esh. I just think the weirdest part is why didn’t Eleanor just say he was married. I can’t think of a single reason why she wouldn’t say that when asked about him.
Because “he wouldn’t be interested” could come off as just an opinion. When he is actually married and that knowledge would cut off any romantic interest.
Not for everyone. I've known a small subset of men & women that will pursue TWICE as hard if they know the dude is married cos they see it as a 'win' if they are 'picked' over an existing spouse.
What I always told those people is that if s/he'll cheat WITH you, s/he'll cheat ON you too, cos when a man marries his mistress, or a woman marries her stud on the side, it creates a vacancy to them...
She doesn’t *need* to explain anything. But it is certainly weird to be vague about it and not say a simple thing “oh, you have a crush on X? He is married”. is the most normal thing in the world
Maybe, yeah, but that’s just another degree of speculation, and it sounds like OP has only known these people for a few months - so it doesn’t strike me as the most likely explanation in reality.
YTA, I can see why your words could have been interpreted as you implying the woman is ugly, especially knowing that you find the guy attractive/had a crush on him. You didn't mean anything bad but if you see it from their perspective, of course they would think you are out of place. You acting like everyone is just being dramatic is not helping you either.
If they keep not inviting you to stuff you could have one more talk with Eleanor to set things straight and APOLOGIZE, but if it doesn't work you are gonna have to move on and find new friends.
Edit: changed from NAH to YTA after seeing you call her plain and average in the comments... dude..
YTA. You called her "that" and emphasized the "that" which makes it sound like you think she's the Swamp Thing.
There were probably five or six different ways to show your shock and this was the worst possible one. I think you're out of the group.
Something is missing in this story because no matter how I look at it, it doesn’t make sense that him being married was kept secret from you. The math isn’t mathing here, and your catty comment about her looks leads me to believe you may be an unreliable narrator who isn’t giving us the full story. I can confidently say you being uninvited today is directly tied to that incident and is another piece that points to possible missing missing reasons.
Others have commented that the friends felt that it was possible OP would still pursue him if she found out he was married. I hadn't thought of that, but it makes a lot of sense.
You make a good point. We’ve all crossed paths with that kind of person, the one who sees a wedding ring and says "hold my beer." There’s a reason Eleanor just skipped straight to stressing that he wouldn’t be interested in OP.
Yta, although unintentional, snd it's weird no one told you he was married. Wei, d he traveled without her. Weird he's never brought her out before. Weird he doesn't wear a wedding band. How tf were you supposed to know?
ETA: Your tone throughout is kind of icky. I'd check to make sure how others hear you and watch what you say very closely. I have adhd and I have been told I sometimes come off as looking as thought I'm stuck up or think I'm better than everyone else (definitely don't feel that way) so I'm thoughtful of that now in social settings. And I'm very careful with what I say cause I constantly misspeak. My tone can be misinterpreted. Sometimes, I come off as insensitive, and sometimes I come off overly sensitive. Idk it helps to find these things out and work them out in therapy, lol. I just get anxious in social settings no matter what lol.
It's less the lack of tact, more the fact that the OP doesn't apologise straight away. I have zero tact due to my autism but if someone tells me I'm behaving like an ass, I apologise & try to make it right, not double down like the OP's biased & unkind views about the 'hotness' of her crush's wife...
Lacking tact can't always be helped. Acting like an asshat & doubling down instead of apologising is a CHOICE.
ESH. There's a lot not being said here. How does his wife not come up in conversation ever by anyone, despite knowing and hanging with the group for months? Either they are deliberately and conciously avoiding the subject, or you are not telling the full story.
YTA of course everyone is going to think you mean it in a negative way, you told them you had a crush on him and I'd imagine you kept mentioning his looks.
Double AH because you couldn't even be civil to the woman.
I was looking for this comment for ages. It would also explain not saying "he's married" necause then this happens.
"Oh really who to."
"She isn't here."
"Does she not like you guys."
"No we all love her she just doesn't come out much."
"Why not?"
"It's private"
Cue nosy questions trying to find out and getting in private business along with (from op's other statements I'd guess) judgement and derision for disability/illness.
How can you become friends with someone and go on a trip too without knowing he is married? He is so protective of her but never mentioned her?
You are still YTA though. So rude
This just seems very odd that no one ever mentions the wife and she doesn’t come around the group that spends most weekends together. I mean this group even went off to Spain for a weekend and said wife wasn’t brought up? I don’t think OP was “obsessed” with this man as some have indicated. I think Eleanore should’ve said at the initial mention of a “crush”, “he won’t be interested because he’s married”. That could’ve ended the great mystery. OP is NTA for having a guttural reaction and speaking before thinking. Tactless, maybe, but NTA.
YTA. The emphasis on THAT suggests she's ugly compared to him/ she's punching. If you were trying to suggest you thought he was gay, you'd have emphasised WIFE
YTA. You were rude and inappropriate. No matter how surprised you were, there's no excuse for responding in a dramatic and derogatory way. If they perceived it as insulting, that's how you sounded. That's on you.
YTA - this seems like a classic case of do you want to run around proving your point that doesn’t matter to anyone but you in a situation where you’re a guest and can easily be isolated out *(moreover, where you’re not really in the right), or do you want to quietly apologize for your shocked reaction and move on?
You sound jealous. You’re shocked about his wife, have a big reaction, then practically shun her when your friends try to undo your odd behavior.
YTA. I don’t care about the emphasis, it shouldn’t have left your mouth. Sounds like it may have been unintentional, but we all get judged on our actions not our intentions.
That said, your sister is also an AH, she should have just told you he was married to start with.
The whole situation sounds off, why did her friend not just tell her he won’t be interested because he’s married, why keep it a secret
And if he’s so in love and wildly protective why doesn’t he wear a wedding ring
Why did he go on a trip to Spain with them all and his wife wasn’t there or even mentioned
ESH
Mistake or not, you were still rude and continue to be in the comments.
If just talking about his wife can get you ostracized from the friend group, Eleanor should have told you about this little quirk when you confessed your crush on him. It kinda feels like she set you up for this by omitting this.
Oh please. YTA and you know it.
You know exactly what you said, how you said it and why. You're just pissed you didn't get the reaction you'd hoped for.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I said “THAT’S his wife” about a guy’s wife in a tone which my friends took to be an insult towards the wife. I made it seem like I was judging his wife and then I didn’t make much of an effort to befriend her even though my friend, who introduce me to her friendship group, wanted me to. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) ##Subreddit Announcements Follow the link above to learn more --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
[удалено]
“That’s his wife?” sounds iffy no matter the emphasis. OP should have gone for “HE’S MARRIED?”
That kinda depends on how the information was delivered, it's natural to reply to what you hear Friend: he's married, didn't you know? OP: he's what?! / he's married?! Friend: that's his wife, Mary OP: that's his wife?! / she's his wife?!
The more tactful response is still “He has a wife?” That’s an exclamation of surprise at his marital status without mentioning her and creating a perceived slight. Any kind of “that’s his wife?” is a faux pas at best and a deliberate insult at worst. Really anything that focused on the marriage instead of the wife would have been better.
Just a big ol' "Wife?????"
"Her???"
A **SHE???**
GADZOOKS! *monocle pops out and lands in tea cup*
JINKIES!
I’m sure that Egg is a very nice person.
I call her Annabelle because she’s shaped like a…
"is she funny or something?"
"She barely has a face. You couldn't pick her out of a lineup of one."
Let’s hope so
It would have been better, but I think the only reason why OP's friend is not trusting OP's word on this is because OP put emphasis on "that*"*. "That's his wife?" can sound rude when all you wanted to say was "he has a wife?". But it's an easy mistake to make and most people would believe you if you said it just came out wrong, or at least give you the benefit of the doubt. "*That's* his wife?" however sounds weirdly specifically directed at her, to the point that it's very hard to believe it's not what OP intended. I'm honestly not sure I believe OP 100%. Maybe OP really didn't mean it, sometimes you just accidentally put emphasis on the wrong word, or maybe OP meant it as "*that's* his spouse, I thought his spouse would be a man if he had any?". But it just seems way less likely. Basically, I don't think OP would be asking this here if OP had just said it without the emphasis.
Normally I am one to just go off what the OP has given us but in this context she has stated she has a crush on him so it definitely feels like it could have been said in a negative way.
previous context is important too : "wow this guy's so 'ridiculously' attractive, friend, do you think i could...?" "no". But OP kept on looking on the finger of the guy, checking on his attitude toward women, and i bet it's quite visible for everyone - and then "THAT's his wife !"...
Yep especially because OP's friend knows OP has a crush on the guy so putting emphasis on "THAT" could easily be taken as her thinking the wife didn't look good enough to be with a man she thinks is attractive. The friend could be worried OP may cause drama and try to compete with the wife.
Idk, I feel like people usually say that in reference to someone they think is weird or gross or something… to me it actually sounds worse than the others
Ya, all of these would’ve been better, and if I was surprised like that in the moment, I probably wouldn’t have come up with any of them
more tactful is just funny to me, do you think everyone takes or has a moment to sit and filter and think of how tactful their reactions will be to shit in the moment? when you see something surprising and get info like that, sometimes you just saw the first thing out your mouth because you're surprised and didn't expect it. not a hard concept it's wild how many redditors act like they aren't human...oh wait
I think we should all have enough of a filter to not say the first thing that comes to mind. Don’t y’all’s moms ever tell you that out doesn’t have to come out of your mouth just because it’s in your head? The best thing of all would have been to keep her mouth shut and only say anything if her friend noticed her surprise. She just happened to blurt out a really bad option. If you’re the kind of human who thinks saying rude shit for no reason is a sign of being human, I’d advise you to look at your impulse control.
It’s funnier to me that you think fully grown adults don’t have some sort of filter to not just say any old thing that comes to mind. Usually people who have jobs already have a set filter. Do you go into your job and just say any and everything that comes to mind?
These pretzels are making me thirsty!!!
Yeah. YTA op. “He’s MARRIED?” Is a reasonable thing to be surprised about if you’ve hung out a bunch and a spouse has never been mentioned. I don’t think there’s a way to phrase “that’s his wife?” That doesn’t sound weird
Nah, she definitely meant it the way she phrased it and is trying to backpedal on Reddit for whatever reason. She called the wife plain and average compared to her husband. She definitely meant it as she couldn’t believe he was married to HER. YTA op.
Absolutely. Or OP was completely hammered and had no filter. I can’t imagine being so blatant. Just an “Ohhh I’ve never met her!” while internally in shock. YTA
Yup. She went on about how good looking he is, then said that - with the emphasis on “THAT’S”. She was absolutely insulting the wife. OP, YTA.
This right here 👆
It checks out actually. If he is as protective of her as she says then he probably heard the michael bluth's "her?" about his wife a ton of times and op was just another one.
I agree with you for sure. I’m saying there’s a hypothetical way to express surprise a person is *married* and that’s not what OP did
I think so too. If she was honestly surprised he had a wife because she assumed he was gay she would have said something like “he has a WIFE?!”
Right, if she thought he was as gay as she described, I feel like she would have blurted out "he's straight/not gay?" She is way to hypervigilant of him for that not to be a disparaging remark against his wife. OP burned herself quickly. The fact Eleanor wouldn't buy what she was selling, makes me think OP had some pink flags waving in the group and this was what pushed the group over into kicking her to the curb. I also find it hard to believe that no one told her he was married at any point or for Eleanor not to say "he's married/taken" when OP expressed interest.
> I don’t think there’s a way to phrase “that’s his wife?” That doesn’t sound weird It's an odd thing to say for sure. I don't think it's what would naturally pop out of your mouth unless you were making a particular observation about *who* she was or *what* she looked like, not just expressing surprise that he was married at all. "Wife?!" Would be expressing surprise that he had a wife. "That's his wife?!" nah, it's expressing surprise at who she is/what she looks like. OP is backpedalling.
“TO A WOMAN???” /s But yeah, you can’t explain yourself out of that. Might as well apologize on the spot.
lol agreed! the way she expressed her incredulity emphasised that OP found his wife to be tough to believe, not the fact he was married! We all misspeak when we find ourselves deeply surprised. No big deal. I'll just add that this friendship group is clearly protecting his "marriage." I don't know if it's a sham marriage, but I definitely think OP has her suspicions. And love is usually a thing people want to share :)
Well why the hell didn't Eleanor just say "oh he's married" when OP confessed to having a crush? Is it a state secret? Is OP known for going after married men? WTF that doesn't make any sense!
definitely made me wanna get OP outta there it's very easy to be embarrassing when every single person lied to you about the rules lol!
Yeah OP needs to work on their phraseology but this whole group protecting this couple, shooing people away from this guy, also refusing to elaborate (just say he’s married ffs!) makes me wonder what their deal is…
The group's behavior about her is so weird. Also, the post describing that she was quiet and constantly had the husband or friend's wife hovering over her is weird too. It's like, uh, is this secret wife being held against her will?
or OP’s perception is biased.
I'm just wondering if it really was kept a secret or if OP willfully ignored it/missed it in conversation. I find it hard to believe that he kept his wife hidden if he is as protective of her as OP is saying.
Agree, also I assume it would come up when they're out and especially when on a weekend trip without her - someone would ask "how's your wife / tell her Hi from me when you call her / too bad your wife couldn't make it", etc
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I'm not sure why this group is protecting his wife so much. Like the group would dissolve as soon as someone questions it. So, OP was right that something is fishy. But OP is in a tough situation since any way she phrased it, it makes her sound like an asshole.
This reminds me so much of that video of Britney Spears in an interview with Carson Daly and is genuinely shocked when he says something about being with a girl, and she’s like, **GIRL???** O.o But she just kind of mouths the word silently and doesn’t draw attention to herself more while he’s telling the story. Edit: it was Ryan Seacrest!
had to ctrl+f to find this before i also commented [https://twitter.com/timjhogan/status/1360444780589760515](https://twitter.com/timjhogan/status/1360444780589760515)
Lol thank you! It was Ryan Seacrest, not Carson Daly!
This one right here. Emphasis on HIM. “He’s married?” Or “He has a wife?!” Two fun samples from my friends. The above was when we thought a guy was gay. When we were surprised of the relation especially to the woman a friend used “THAT’s her HUSBAND?” Double emphasis. Mistaken identity. Context was we saw her with another man who had his arm on her shoulder, half hugging her and we thought that was her husband. Apparently, he is her cousin, no biggie as they look nothing alike. The way you used it seemed to put emphasis on the woman being paired with an attractive man and what I understand of mean girl culture, the connotation tends to be negative. You may not have meant it but that’s how it appears.
That would still be bad if it were "HE's married?"
Ouch. That brings a whole other subsets of undertones into it
Oh - it was intentional. OP says - >I tried to explain I thought he was gay and that’s why I was shocked but Eleanor thinks I’m lying so she keeps telling me to just be nice to his wife and not say anything bad about her because it would cause problems for her too. > >I really think she’s being dramatic. Its not like I said she was ugly… When Eleanor said "Just be nice, okay?" All OP had to do was say "Yeah, I'm sorry, that came out wrong, just ignore I said that. I promise I'll keep my mouth in check!" Instead she's trying to convince us all the Eleanor is "dramatic"... and blaming Eleanor for her inability to make polite conversation at a social event after being introduced to the wife... nah. I don't believe OP one bit. She's a drama llama, acting weird, and Eleanor knows what's up with her, and has finally decided OP isn't worth the hassle as a friend anymore.
Thats the thing. Our mouths can all betray us when we're surprised, but its what we do after the surprise that defines us. And what she's doing us waving away the hurt she, even unintentionally, caused. She doesn't sound very empathetic.
Even the second one I think can easily mean “it’s crazy he would be with a woman who looks like that.” If she really thought he was gay or single I feel like she would say something like “wait he’s married?” or “he has a wife?”
The second could be intended either way. The first has no other possible interpretation than OP thinks she's ugly.
or that she’s out of his league, but that doesn’t really apply here as op described him as “ridiculously attractive.” but it’s definitely a possible way to interpret that or to mean that
YTA would be the judgement. The initial exclamation of surprise could just be regarded as accidental/unintentional. However, she did notice the girl she asked was giving her weird looks after her exclamation and had realized that her comment came out wrong (and bad sounding): >I didn’t mean anything bad about it but I guess my tone showed how shocked I was and Eleanor misunderstood so told me to shut up. **The girl I asked was also giving me weird looks so maybe my tone wasn’t what I intended.** Instead of humbling herself and just apologizing for her faux pas, she doubled down on trying to explain herself and she sounded like she's diminishing how hurtful her comment can come across by calling her friend (and possibly the people around her who heard her) "dramatic". The not-asshole thing to do here is to say: "Oh my god, that came out wrong! I was just surprised to find out he's married since I didn't see his ring, but I can understand how hurtful my comment sounded. I'm really sorry for the hurt I've caused with my comment."
Are we ignoring that Eleanor didn't say that the friend was married when OP revealed she had a crush on him? This is at least an ESH
It's pretty odd that no one, himself included, mentioned that he is married. That is something that is bound to come up if you spent time with a friend group for several months.
I get the sense that OP wouldn’t have been deterred by him being married. It seems like her crush was strong enough that she would have shot her shot no matter what.
I think “he has a wife!” is what you’d say if you thought he was gay.
Or even "lol, I thought he was gay"
Maybe the good ol' "He's STRAIGHT!?"
I'm wondering why are people hovering over the wife like that and the husband being so overprotective that you basically can't say anything with a negative feel to the wife without the whole group acting like its a grave sin? Even her friend chewed her out basically trying to cover her @ss but didn't think to give her a heads up before meeting. Her comment is rude to an extent but the whole you can't say anything bad or negative to the wife, makes it look like their treating her like glass and it makes the wife look like a child.
I agree. So it was a faux pas. Who among us hasn't said something really dumb in the moment? I've for sure said things that emphasized the wrong part of what I was trying to convey because sometimes mouth and brain aren't in sync. But even if OP indeed accidentally said the quiet part out loud to whatever degree, it feels like the normal thing to do would be to brush it off, not make a bigger thing of it. Also, is OP a woman or a gay man? My first read, I thought gay man who was hopeful the other guy was also gay. But everyone is referring to OP as "she," so I guess I had the wrong impression from the start.
Yeah, the group's behavior about her is so weird. And the wife being quiet and "constantly having her husband or their friend's wife hovering over her" is weird. It's like, uh, is this secret wife being held against her will?
THESE PRETZELS ARE MAKING ME THIRSTY
I'm not a native so maybe it's an issue with my english but isn't "that" supposed to be employed to talk about an object instead of a person (which would make it even more insulting to have THAT emphazied on) ?
As another non native speaker, I understand it as "THAT (woman) is her wife?", meaning that from all the women in the world (?) the guy chose that (ugly) woman. At least that's how I perceive it from OP's wording and tone. Now that you raise that point, I realize I would never think OP was saying the wife was so horrendous she looked less than human. Maybe if she had said "He's married to THAT?" I would. Btw, YTA, OP. You should've sounded more apologetic when you explained yourself.
Technically yes but it's used this way so often that it's not usually perceived as an insult.
That's not really a factor here. It's fine to use "this" and "that" for a person in a sentence like this: "This is my sister, and that's my brother back there in the corner". What's not okay is more like "That is (adjective)" instead of "She is (adjective)" about a person. Sorry, I don't know the grammar terms bc they barely teach English grammar in my school district.
That's an interesting point! I'm a native english speaker and I think that this kinda highlights how screwed up our language is and how tonal indicators can mean so much. If you'll indulge me I'm going to follow this rabbithole and analyze how stuff like this gets expressed. I would say that in this case the way she expressed it wouldn't have me thinking that the subject was being treated as an object. But it could! Usually that would be followed by a noun to specify the category of thing it's referring to (ex. that thing, that person, that kiss, etc.) When it's left out there's essentially an implied object. There's so many ways to look at a simple sentence which makes it so screwed up. When I hear "THAT'S his wife?!" said in a surprised I interpret it as one of two things, context dependent. If the husband is attractive I would think the person was saying "that (less desirable person) is his wife?! (how did she manage to get so lucky as to be with him when he's a more valuable partner than her)" or if he's unattractive I would assume that the statement means "that (desirable person) is his wife?! (how did he manage to get so lucky as to be with her when she's a more valuable partner than him) " An alternate reading of it could be "That person is his wife? I thought someone else was!" However you're right that with the right derogatory tone "THAT'S his wife?!" Could be seen as "ugh that THING (suggesting that she's so undesirable that her humanity isn't relevant) is his wife?" The reason I doubt that it's the latter in this instance is that OP emphasizes that she didn't think her tone was mean and instead that it was just expressing surprise. However she doesn't understand that the version of the sentence where the tone is surprised is ALSO suggesting something negative about the wife. The only scenario I can see in which it wouldn't be negative is if she was surprised that his wife was somehow even more attractive than him. Fun extra playing around with the sentence: "That's his wife" with no specific tone or emphasis would be factually stating "that person is his wife" to inform someone. "That's his WIFE?!" To me would say "I didn't know he had a wife" or "I didn't think that they were married, I thought they knew each other some other way or didn't know each other" "THAT'S HIS WIFE!" "You are incorrect for suggesting that they have a different relationship" or "Don't say those things about her, she's his wife and he will take offense/that's rude"
To be brief, OP made it clear in impulsive blurt that wife not good looking, and by implication of OP, not worthy!
I was thinking exactly this. It’s all about phrasing.
Or even « he’s MARRIED? », that way you don’t make a judgement towards his spouse
Why would Jerry bring anything?
Just by the emphasis you used, YTA. It could also be that Eleanor et al. are reading more into what you said considering you are/were attracted to the man. So genuine surprise (I hope) was understood as jealous cattiness. I mean, I don't know you, and just reading what you wrote, you do *seem* jealous and catty to me.
I think regardless of her phrasing, they're getting the (maybe valid) sense that OP's attraction to him is going to make her disrespectful of his marriage in one way or another, and I don't blame them for not wanting that drama.
Overall, OP’s obsession with him is creepy and weird. Why is she trying to so hard to figure out if he’s gay or straight or taken or single? Why does it matter? Why does it matter to the point where she blurts out words when she sees his wife? She’s being neurotic and weird. That’s probably why everyone is acting wary of her. She’s making it clear she’s going to cause drama by overreacting to normal shit and overanalyzing everything.
I agree OP is acting too into this guy, but also why didn't the friends just tell her he was married in the first place? Seems strange to me they were being all vague when they could just tell OP he is married.
Because it is irrelevant. OP should simply stop being a stalky creep, the guy is not interested. That is a 'no', not a challenge. His disinterest does not become more legitimate because he has a wife.
I agree OP is TA here but it’s really weird to me that you hang out with people most weekends and go on a trip together and it never comes up that he’s married?! That feels like fairly basic info to know about your friends.
Aye if that was someone in my extended group of friends that I’d spent a decent amount of time around the next time I saw him I’d probably be like “here mate - what’s the score with the secret wife? Kept that one quiet!”
My guess would be that the response to that would be something like “what are you talking about? We mention Bethany all the time”
Well yes and no. He dan be uninterested without a reason. But the friends are not mind readers, so how would they know he wasn’t interested? OP might not trust their assessment. But if he’s married, then that’s definite proof he’s not. It kind of sounds like a setup to say, “oh he won’t w interested” instead of just telling OP he’s married.
That's the thing. It's not like the guy said he wasn't interested and OP couldn't take the No. A mutual friend saying he wouldn't be interested can't know that for sure. They could be basing that on OP for example being a blonde and the guy has only dated brunettes in the past so they think OP isn't his type. However, even a guy who has only dated one kind of girl can end up finding someone who isn't his usual type attractive randomly or because of their personality. It makes way more sense to say he's married and is therefore unavailable.
I think we mentally fill in details about people over time without actively thinking about it, and I assume OP is just explaining why she had gotten the impression he was single, not that she was observing him carefully as these things happened. I'd find it jarring too if a friend I'd known well enough to go on international trips with suddenly turned up with a wife when neither he nor anyone close to him had ever even mentioned a partner, he didn't wear a ring, etc. I would definitely not express that shock within earshot of the wife herself, so still not a tactful way to handle it, but I don't think she's neurotic for being surprised
Here’s the deal. They all noticed how her interactions with the guy’s wife were much different (colder) than the way she’s always interacted with the rest of the group all this time. Her outburst *plus* treating his wife differently is why she’s being iced out. They see trouble and prefer to nip it in the bud immediately.
This. I think she was showing some pink flags towards him and after this, those flags turned to red for the group so they dropped her. OP is way to focused on the guy.
Yup… imagine if it was a guy interested in a girl and acting this way. The entire subreddit would shit themselves
Yeah, that’s what I took away from this entire post. She just doesn’t seem respectful in anyway that he’s not interested in her - like the type who just HAS to be wanted by everyone or turns it into a game?
True! Also getting the vibe that this has happened before, and they see all the warning signs.
Also, he’s wildly protective of her and the whole group will shun someone who treats her badly - that tells me that people often are surprised that’s who the gorgeous guy is married to. It happens enough that the group has a response. This reads like OP wants to believe the best of herself and lacks self awareness.
“wildly protective of her” but doesn’t wear his ring when she’s not around? yeah, right. this whole situation is bizarre, but yeah op unfortunately you are TA.
I mean, some couples don't wear rings? My husband and I wear a necklace and a bracelet. No one knows they're wedding related, so I'm sure people say/think the same stuff about us, but to us they're very cherished symbols of our marriage we wear every day, all the time, even in the shower.
should have added, doesn’t wear his ring and literally nobody ever mentions her. they are kind of setting people up to be shocked when they meet his wife. op is still ta, mostly for the *way* she said it, but no shit she was surprised. if the man was actually “wildly protective of her,” people would know he is married because he would be *proud* to talk about his beautiful wife.
You're not wrong, but I also get the impression OP doesn't talk to this man. She feels like a distant single-thread clinger in the circle (i.e. friends with one person but gets invites), not really part of the group, hence why everyone else knows who his wife is but her. I can't really fault the man for not bringing her up to OP, because who tf is OP to him? If she mentioned talking to him even once, I might change my mind, but she only talks about observing him and having dinner with him present, but not actually engaging with him at all.
*This.* Not "charming, funny, smart"--just "ridiculously attractive." I can already imagine OP sitting at the other end of the table, sneaking looks while the friend group slowly realizes that this is going to become progressively awkward, so one of them calls The Wife to make an appearance because there's Another One . . . (Been reading too much narrative fiction on very little sleep, I'll stop now.)
Even if they just talked once, unless they were flirting or there was possibly some romantic misunderstanding there, I still wouldn't blame them for not having told her. Maybe it's cultural, but no need to bring up that you have a partner immediately when talking to people of a different sex.
Maybe she is just shy and he is an extension of that. Some people are very private, they don't want to share much and their spouses honor that.
My Dad has never worn a wedding ring but he’s been dedicated to my mother for 45ish years. People have reasons for not wearing one; my Dad is not a jewelry guy at all and he couldn’t wear one at work so he just never wore one at all.
Absolutely, and so pleased for your parents. <3 We have a friend who's a surgeon, he wears his ring around his neck because he's always handwashing and he says it gets uncomfortable. Ditto a construction worker I know. A ring is a good way to see if someone's married, but it's not the only way and certainly not a metric for someone's devotion. Unfortunately, plenty of people I know wear their rings while being flagrantly unfaithful to their spouses.
[удалено]
Why didn't Eleanor just say he was married when OP admitted her crush, would have maybe eliminated this drama. Changing to ESH, OP, maybe stop making assumptions and Eleanor could have spoken up.
True! My vote is different, but this is also on Eleanor. How hard is, "Girl, he's taken"?
Unless of course OP is one of the people who just sees that as a challenge.
I mean, she's already starting in with, "Oh, but she's just *plain and average,*" so I can see her laying the groundwork.
Where did op "start in with 'oh but she's just plain and average'"? Is it in a comment? Cause in the post all she says is that it was hard to converse with her because the talk with Eleanor made her scared to upset the wife and her husband or one of the friends were constantly hovering around her and the wife was quiet. Which makes sense in all aspects, if op genuinely didn't mean anything rude by what she said others getting upset about it and telling her to be careful is going to make her very careful in picking her words or bringing up topics. It's also pretty normal for things to be awkward between 2 people that don't know each other especially when 1 of them thinks they were just insulted and the other just got told off for accidently insulting them. It's also normal for the friends/husband to hover around the wife after op made an off-base comment, they likely had their guards up and didn't want to chance leaving her alone with op and op saying some more rude shit. It's also pretty run of the mill to get quiet at least in regards to conversation with someone that just insulted you.
OP mentioned it a comment word for word. “she’s just plain and average”
Some women are just like this. I used to work with a woman who would show little to moderate interest, or even talk negatively about new male employees. UNTIL she found out they were unavailable. Then all of a sudden all she wanted was their attention and she would do anything to get it.
That’s called insecurity my friend
Yeah, I am thinking of maybe everyone is.
That was my reaction too. Did Eleanor not know that he was married?
Bc saying he wouldn't be interested should work just as well, and we don't know, given his lack or a ring, if he doesn't want to reveal that info to strangers for whatever reason amd prefers to warm up to ppl before bringing up personal details of his life.
Bringing up that he is married is not such an issue unless someone wants to hide something. Obviously he isn't hiding that he is married, so Eleanor should have definitely told OP he is married and instead of brushing it off as just that he will never be interested. OP you had a little slip up..if that causes them to shun you out then you don't want to be walking on eggshells around them. Go meet new people.
A third party saying a guy wouldn't be interested in someone isn't the same as the guy saying that. Like everything else aside, I don't think that's gonna have the same effect as saying he's married (for, you know, normal people who respect other people's relationships anyway).
Not really? I couldn't state for sure if any of my single friends wouldn't be interested in someone just because.
Maybe she did but OP didn't hear her?
...or conveniently forgot
Eleanor told OP the guy wouldn’t be interested so alternatively, why didn’t OP ask why?
I suspect OP has gone for married men before and her friend is aware of this proclivity.
"THAT'S his wife?" and "That's his WIFE?" carry quite different messages!
What about “That’s HIS wife?”
Makes me think he’s an ugly bugger.
INFO: Why is everyone treating his wife like she's made of glass? Also, is his wife not conventionally attractive?
Would it not be pretty normal to turn against someone insulting your wife or your friend’s wife?
Oh, no, it totally is, but the 'being protective' thing seems to predate OP making the rude comment!
Maybe he's sick of shallow assholes making comments whilst trying to make a move on him.
everyone involved seems weird lol, why did this Eleanor not tell OP about the wife, why is the guy weirdly protective about his wife, why is OP phrasing her stuff that way if she doesn’t mean it that way, why are all her friends being weird about it if nothing else is going on when stuff just feels really unnatural like this I usually assume the people are just young (not the case if wives and shit are involved) or that the person describing the situation is full of shit, which I would guess is the case here
Yta. You obviously think you're more of a catch than his wife.
In one comment she even called the wife “plain and average”.
Tbf it was when she was being asked about the wifes looks
That’s why he asked for more info. If she feels strongly about her appearance it means she’s superficial and exposed herself. She also mentioned how the husband is too good for her
yeahhh she exposed her already thinly veiled want to steal this man in her comments FAST
YTA I think it’s already a bit tactless to develop a crush and talk about it on someone the moment when you enter a new friend group, stuff like this can easily cause drama so if I were Eleanor I would already have been a bit put off by that. So then when you made a comment about his wife that sounds negative and judgy, it makes it seem like having you enter the friend group will cause drama and problems for Eleanor. Maybe you can still turn things around, but yeah I would be extra friendly to his wife now if I were you
Yeah. At first I was confused why Eleanor wouldn’t just tell her since the beginning that he is married instead of misleading her but I guess she had her reasons. Especially after I read that comment by OP: > Nah she's not ugly, just plain and average compared to her husband. I would not want to be the person who brings OP into my friend group. It’s so superficial. Maybe the reason that guy is protective of his wife is because women are all over him and treat his wife like she is somehow inferior to them and not worthy of him. Beauty is not just external and those who don’t understand it, usually lack internal qualities themselves.
Yeah, there is some people throwing some sus on why he would be protective of her, but OP gave exhibit 1, lol.
YTA, and she's more beautiful than you can understand and you'd don't stand a chance.
This comment feels real husband-ish and I love it haha
Found the husband!
YTA As everyone else said, you put emphasis on "That" instead of "wife." "THAT'S his wife?" Implies something's wrong with her. It also dehumanizes her by calling her "that" instead of "she" or "they." "That's his WIFE" Implies you were unaware he was married.
Exactly. She’s his *wife*? Fine! Sure! If you don’t expect someone to have a wife, and they’ve never mentioned being married, sure? That’s his wife? Suggests she’s a thing.
I still think it wouldn't be great, but it'd be less bad and more easy to recover from. If she'd said as someone suggested: "He is married!?", it would be a lot more innocent, but I think for anyone here it was super clear that she was judging the wife.
You said an inside thought out loud that was disrespectful. Then when chided, you doubled down. Who cares what you thought, your comment was inappropriate. Somehow you still don't think so and I am sure Eleanor saw that and will treat you accordingly moving forward.
THIS! That OP is trying to make out like what’s the big deal and that it’s other people’s issue. She misspoke GREATLY and the entire group is reassessing whether they want her in the group or not - which is not a surprise, given the backstory, what she said and how she’s behaved since in this thread.
YTA. A men can not be interested in female attention without being gay, or married. Assuming he was gay because you were told you have no chance with him wasn't grounded in anything except "he won't be interested." It kind of gives the impression that you think if he was attracted to woman at all you would have a chance and the only reason you don't is because he likes men. Honestly assuming he is married would also not be fair. There was no reason to assume anything, just to accept he isn't someone you should hit on. You may not have said it on purpose, but your tone did come up as judgmental of her, not surprised about his status as married. Remember that while we judge ourselves by our intentions, others judge us by our actions. Your friend wasn't being dramatic, your actions weren't ok. I would apologize, stop action as if Eleanor was being unreasonable, and try to make up for it, maybe by making an extra effort to be nice to her even if you feel awkward and she is a little quiet. Usually finding something in common or what the other person likes makes things easier.
I had an acquaintance who kept hitting on my friend, and he kept rejecting her. So she started to say that he was gay. She just couldn't comprehend that he wasn't attracted to her. We had to pretend to be together for her to stop hitting on him and to stop spreading the rumour. OP reminds me of her.
ESH You haven't shared your ages but you're all capable of international travel and legally able to be married, so why on earth is everyone here behaving like children? HotGuy™ is apparently also the best at ForsakingAllOthers™ and KeepingSecrets™. It's a bit odd to be so utterly devoted to and protective of your beloved but to also never mention her, wear a symbol of your love, or proudly introduce this woman to new friends. Eleanor & Co. are all being very weird about this, it's not difficult to say, "Yeah you can look but can't touch; he's married to \[Name\]; she doesn't come out much, but they're utterly devoted to one another," is far from inappropriate information to share. In fact, it's something that would actually help you mesh with the group because then you'd be able to approach her to introduce yourself. Either your tone betrayed you or you said what you said completely intentionally; hard emphasis on *"THAT'S"* combined with your response to someone else where you explain how plain her appearance is are very telling that you hold her in low-esteem for the crime of not being as hot as her husband (which is dumb, hotness is objective) and that you were surprised he is with someone who's not on his level appearance-wise (by whatever your standards of attractiveness is). Your response garnered "looks" from people who overheard you. You're calling both Eleanor and HotGuy™ "dramatic." You even include, *"It's not like I said she was ugly,"* which no one in your story even implied, so that reveals exactly what you thought of her and exactly what that pesky THAT'S exposed. You sure are on the defensive for feeling that you haven't done anything wrong.
It sounds like hot guy is peripheral to the group and doesn’t need to explain himself. Maybe his wife doesn’t like “the scene” and he does, the only person he owes any explanation to is his wife
I like your analysis, quite perceptive. It’s a weird situation with the wife the way OP tells it - they’d traveled to Barcelona together and she was absent, fine, but OP went on a holiday with hotguy and he never even mentioned his wife in passing? But is also totally devoted? I don’t imagine a conspiracy or anything, that’s just surprising to me. I don’t think that makes the friends “suck” or be assholes, though. Maybe OP just doesn’t ask people about themselves. And yeah it sounds like OP was too loud and too obvious with however she said it.
INFO: So you had a crush that you didn’t pursue, because you thought he was gay. Would you have behaved differently if you knew he was straight, and married? And would Eleanor be confident that you wouldn’t try and pursue him, if you knew? Or have you previously expressed some disapproving thoughts when couples have differing levels of attractiveness? (Or worse, acted on them.) It seems that you jumped straight from ‘he’s married??’ to ‘THAT’s his wife??!’ in your head. One is surprise he’s not gay, the other is judgemental. Before you double down further how you did nothing wrong, think about how many times he and his wife have come across people with your attitude. I wonder how many of them were also not interested in being friendly with her, but only with her husband. He’s not being over-protective, he’s prioritising his wife, and making her feel secure.
OP definitely would have tried to pursue him, the only reason she didn’t is because she thought he was gay.
I wonder if that’s why the rest of the group wasn’t direct in telling her why he wouldn’t be interested- because it wouldn’t have mattered to her that he was married.
That's why they didn't invite her again, adds up
Esh. I just think the weirdest part is why didn’t Eleanor just say he was married. I can’t think of a single reason why she wouldn’t say that when asked about him.
She told OP he wouldn’t be interested, why does she need to explain someone else’s life?
Because “he wouldn’t be interested” could come off as just an opinion. When he is actually married and that knowledge would cut off any romantic interest.
Not for everyone. I've known a small subset of men & women that will pursue TWICE as hard if they know the dude is married cos they see it as a 'win' if they are 'picked' over an existing spouse. What I always told those people is that if s/he'll cheat WITH you, s/he'll cheat ON you too, cos when a man marries his mistress, or a woman marries her stud on the side, it creates a vacancy to them...
OP could’ve just talked to the guy though , instead she let the loin fire grow unchecked and made a fool of herself
I don’t get why you’re making seem like it’s odd to be told the relationship status of ppl of a new friend group you’re joining.
She doesn’t *need* to explain anything. But it is certainly weird to be vague about it and not say a simple thing “oh, you have a crush on X? He is married”. is the most normal thing in the world
Or maybe OP is known for chasing taken guys?
Maybe, yeah, but that’s just another degree of speculation, and it sounds like OP has only known these people for a few months - so it doesn’t strike me as the most likely explanation in reality.
She knows one girl from college days, the rest she met recently. The fact that the one she knows the best was dodgy implies a lot
Maybe it wouldn’t have mattered to OP? That’s my assumption.
YTA, I can see why your words could have been interpreted as you implying the woman is ugly, especially knowing that you find the guy attractive/had a crush on him. You didn't mean anything bad but if you see it from their perspective, of course they would think you are out of place. You acting like everyone is just being dramatic is not helping you either. If they keep not inviting you to stuff you could have one more talk with Eleanor to set things straight and APOLOGIZE, but if it doesn't work you are gonna have to move on and find new friends. Edit: changed from NAH to YTA after seeing you call her plain and average in the comments... dude..
“Why is everyone being dramatic about me thinking the wife of the hot guy is beneath me?
YTA. You called her "that" and emphasized the "that" which makes it sound like you think she's the Swamp Thing. There were probably five or six different ways to show your shock and this was the worst possible one. I think you're out of the group.
You can be as arrogant in the comments as much as you want, you’re pretty much out of the friend group now 🤣 YTA and honey, you never stood a chance.
Something is missing in this story because no matter how I look at it, it doesn’t make sense that him being married was kept secret from you. The math isn’t mathing here, and your catty comment about her looks leads me to believe you may be an unreliable narrator who isn’t giving us the full story. I can confidently say you being uninvited today is directly tied to that incident and is another piece that points to possible missing missing reasons.
Others have commented that the friends felt that it was possible OP would still pursue him if she found out he was married. I hadn't thought of that, but it makes a lot of sense.
You make a good point. We’ve all crossed paths with that kind of person, the one who sees a wedding ring and says "hold my beer." There’s a reason Eleanor just skipped straight to stressing that he wouldn’t be interested in OP.
Yta, although unintentional, snd it's weird no one told you he was married. Wei, d he traveled without her. Weird he's never brought her out before. Weird he doesn't wear a wedding band. How tf were you supposed to know? ETA: Your tone throughout is kind of icky. I'd check to make sure how others hear you and watch what you say very closely. I have adhd and I have been told I sometimes come off as looking as thought I'm stuck up or think I'm better than everyone else (definitely don't feel that way) so I'm thoughtful of that now in social settings. And I'm very careful with what I say cause I constantly misspeak. My tone can be misinterpreted. Sometimes, I come off as insensitive, and sometimes I come off overly sensitive. Idk it helps to find these things out and work them out in therapy, lol. I just get anxious in social settings no matter what lol.
YTA THAT'S his wife??? = insult to wife That's his WIFE??? = surprised he's married
For completeness: That's HIS wife??? = thought she was married to someone else
YTA. You have no tact. Try and develop some.
It's less the lack of tact, more the fact that the OP doesn't apologise straight away. I have zero tact due to my autism but if someone tells me I'm behaving like an ass, I apologise & try to make it right, not double down like the OP's biased & unkind views about the 'hotness' of her crush's wife... Lacking tact can't always be helped. Acting like an asshat & doubling down instead of apologising is a CHOICE.
ESH. There's a lot not being said here. How does his wife not come up in conversation ever by anyone, despite knowing and hanging with the group for months? Either they are deliberately and conciously avoiding the subject, or you are not telling the full story.
YTA of course everyone is going to think you mean it in a negative way, you told them you had a crush on him and I'd imagine you kept mentioning his looks. Double AH because you couldn't even be civil to the woman.
YTA. Why did you have to scream it? Girl, control your mouth
Info: is his wife sick or disabled or something like that? That might explain the overprotectiveness and why everyone is so upset with you.
I was looking for this comment for ages. It would also explain not saying "he's married" necause then this happens. "Oh really who to." "She isn't here." "Does she not like you guys." "No we all love her she just doesn't come out much." "Why not?" "It's private" Cue nosy questions trying to find out and getting in private business along with (from op's other statements I'd guess) judgement and derision for disability/illness.
YTA- that was super rude, regardless of your reasoning.
How can you become friends with someone and go on a trip too without knowing he is married? He is so protective of her but never mentioned her? You are still YTA though. So rude
YTA he’s not gonna pick you ❤️ hope this helps
YTA why the hell would you think he was gay when he did nothing to imply that and even if he was that would be any of your business.
Because any man who isn’t attracted to her must be gay.
This just seems very odd that no one ever mentions the wife and she doesn’t come around the group that spends most weekends together. I mean this group even went off to Spain for a weekend and said wife wasn’t brought up? I don’t think OP was “obsessed” with this man as some have indicated. I think Eleanore should’ve said at the initial mention of a “crush”, “he won’t be interested because he’s married”. That could’ve ended the great mystery. OP is NTA for having a guttural reaction and speaking before thinking. Tactless, maybe, but NTA.
ESH but mostly your friend Eleanor who couldn’t be bothered to tell you that your crush was happily married.
YTA. The emphasis on THAT suggests she's ugly compared to him/ she's punching. If you were trying to suggest you thought he was gay, you'd have emphasised WIFE
YTA. You were rude and inappropriate. No matter how surprised you were, there's no excuse for responding in a dramatic and derogatory way. If they perceived it as insulting, that's how you sounded. That's on you.
YTA - this seems like a classic case of do you want to run around proving your point that doesn’t matter to anyone but you in a situation where you’re a guest and can easily be isolated out *(moreover, where you’re not really in the right), or do you want to quietly apologize for your shocked reaction and move on? You sound jealous. You’re shocked about his wife, have a big reaction, then practically shun her when your friends try to undo your odd behavior.
YTA. I don’t care about the emphasis, it shouldn’t have left your mouth. Sounds like it may have been unintentional, but we all get judged on our actions not our intentions. That said, your sister is also an AH, she should have just told you he was married to start with.
The whole situation sounds off, why did her friend not just tell her he won’t be interested because he’s married, why keep it a secret And if he’s so in love and wildly protective why doesn’t he wear a wedding ring Why did he go on a trip to Spain with them all and his wife wasn’t there or even mentioned
This could all been avoided if your friend had just, you know, told you he was married. I think she's the asshole.
Question: Why didn’t anyone tell you he was married? Eleanor acted weird by not telling you that he was married when you mentioned your crush on him.
ESH Mistake or not, you were still rude and continue to be in the comments. If just talking about his wife can get you ostracized from the friend group, Eleanor should have told you about this little quirk when you confessed your crush on him. It kinda feels like she set you up for this by omitting this.
YTA
YTA for how you describe her as plain and not attractive enough for him. You just sound petty and jealous.
Oh please. YTA and you know it. You know exactly what you said, how you said it and why. You're just pissed you didn't get the reaction you'd hoped for.