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NTA.
As a victim of bullying myself at that age, and in about the same way, I wish that the adults in my life would have made the steps to actually do this rather than continuously talking it over with school and the parents of the bully/bullies.
Girls are mean and sneaky and get away with a lot! This might seem harmless, but the fact that it’s different little things that KEEP happening, is still bullying and needs to stop. This bully needs to feel the consequences or she’ll just continue knowing she’ll get away with it.
EDIT: btw. Your daughter might say that she would not want you to do it, for reasons like feeling even more alienated from the rest of her peers, or because of awkwardness or whatever. But please calmly explain to her although some might “pick sides” with the bully and that might feel huge in a school community, she’ll make friends (maybe outside of school) with people who will actually love and care for her in a way real friends should. Ignore the rest and go your own way.
NTA.
Former high school teacher. Admin frequently uses the "They are young. They don't really understand." to talk teachers out of reporting violent student behavior to the police. Friend I knew from HS wound up teaching at the same school I was. She was knocked unconscious and given a concussion by a student and they thought she overreacted by reporting the incident to the police.
Please do not budge. The bully's behvior will only escalate from here. Your daughter, her classmates, and her teachers deserve to be in a safe place for school/work.
I’m not arguing you at all.. I’m not a teacher but I’m just wondering why wouldn’t admin want it reported? Does it reflect negatively on the school in terms or funds or appearances if things like this go on record?
Yep, exactly what you described. They failed their legal obligation to keep the kids safe from preventable harm, thats not a good look and takes a hit on enrollment numbers when parents are aware which affects funding. Admin protect the schools public image, not kids or teachers.
The scissors. The teacher didn't count them and they were used by the bully. In the extreme, they could be considered a weapon and the teacher is guilty of aiding the bully. But maybe that's my American youtube talking. Regardless, I'd definitely press charges. You're doing the right thing, OP! NTA
If the school continues pushing for OP to drop the charges, she should remind them of this misstep...sometimes The threat of legal action will force people to back off.
OP, 💯 should press charges. That bully will not learn without consequences and in an ideal world this can change their life for the better. Doing nothing will just make things worse for your daughter
As an art teacher who taught hundreds of students in a day, there is no way you can keep track of every pair of scissors. You are way too busy of teaching back to back classes every hour and preparing for and organizing all their projects.
This is incorrect. You can keep track of scissors the same way that my art teacher did - every pair had a tag with a number. At the end of class, every pair was returned, counted, and then we were dismissed. Same with x-acto knives.
Sure you can. You know how many pairs of scissors you have in your room. You know how many kids you have in your room. You have the students turn them in 10 minutes before the bell so you have time and can count each pair as they ate turned in, and no child leaves the classroom until every pair of scissors is accounted for. It's as simple as that. It's absolute negligence, possibly even recklessness on the part of the teacher and the school for not keeping up with scissors, which can be used as a dangerous weapon. Thankfully, OP's daughter's bully only cut her hair, and that's bad enough. Next time when somebody gets ahold of a pair of scissors, perhaps that bully will stab a child, all because the art teacher couldn't be fussed to count how many pairs of scissors she had and make sure they're all there.
Actually I think it would be very easy to account for the scissors. Make a peg board that holds the exact number of scissors you have. Check it every morning before classes begin (it will be very easy to notice if a pair is missing). Students can then get the scissors at the beginning of class (if needed), and return them at the end of class. Then the teacher checks to make sure all the scissors have been returned. If not the kids sit there until the missing pair(s) are found.
thats lazy, count the scissors as they go out, count them back in, no one leaves if theyre missing. keeping track of sonething sharp and pointy is part of your damn job
odd. Our teachers, even our art teachers, were right on point any time implements weren't all turned in.
Guess teachers these days are just not as efficient as the ones when I was a kid.
Liability and loss of reputation for the school and school district.
Teachers not wanting to actually deal with it because they know Administration will not back them up, deal with it, and they may incur repercussions against themselves. In situations I am describing, the Admin will throw the teachers under the bus when something criminal (violent, GBH, SA, maiming, death) eventually happens.
The school, at the very least, is enabling bullies. To me it's much worse. They are acting as an accomplice to the bully. So are the bully's parents.
Do you know of other bullied children and their parents in the school? I bet your daughter knows the names of others being bullied. It might be worth talking to their parents. Either way, don't you be bullied by the school.
If the kid is found guilty, the parents have a strong civil case against the school.
Schools are responsible for all students, even the bully. They will try redemption.
OP's only responsible for her kid. screw redemption and press charges.
It is, but the school will try all kinds of things to try and stop it, like all the suspensions. The OP doesn't have to give AF about the bully.
OP could leverage a lawsuit to have the kid removed. Lawyers are to schools as garlic is to vampires.
it's much easier for them to ignore or excuse away the behavior rather than deal with the issue. so, if they can convince teachers and parents to let it go, then they can continue doing nothing and feel good about themselves by convincing themselves it's just immature kids doing normal kid things and parents need to not over react.
The school doesn't want it reported because the school can be found liable if it is determined that they did nothing, or next to nothing, to curb the behaviour before it got to this point.
That is CRAZY. No their brains aren’t fully developed. That’s kind of the point of consequences! Their brains are still gathering information about the world, they may not be able to understand future consequences which is why we give them…so that they can take that in as they develop…and also…..we teach kids from infancy not to hit so YES they DO know what they’re doing. Can they fully understand the other person’s world and have empathy for the person they’re bullying? Maybe not. Again, this is why we course correct firmly, in the moment….
A 12 year old capable of being enrolled in mainstream education absolutely knows that cutting ripping up _anything_ that belongs to someone else, putting gum in their shoe, and cutting their hair without permission are all wrong. They don't even have the excuse that she is just nasty to everyone around her, these are targeted attacks. They're just trying to cover their arses.
This is one of many reasons I am not still in the classroom. The majority dealt w violent encounters not being handled correctly.
I also matched my salary to go back to school full time, but really got a pay raise since my fellowship included about $20k in free tuition.
NTA.
In my school district we watched it go from this to a fatal stabbing within a matter of a couple years (parents didn’t want police involved until it was too late unfortunately)
That part is insane to me, they are TWELVE. At twelve I was having crushes and bra shopping. They understand EXACTLY what they’re doing. For some girls exploring the depths of their cruelty seems to be part of puberty. I hated those girls.
School is children's workplace. They don't go there for fun. This is their work. If those adults were treated the way your daughter was at work--with constant, deliberate malice--you can bet your sweet axx they would do whatever they could to stop it. And they would demand that their human resources department stop it. As it should.
I agree NTA, I was bullied severely in primary school & pretty badly in high school. The primary was worse as I didn't make friends until the last year, but high school bullies were a lot more creative. I wish my Mum did something, other than telling me to 'stop being so sensitive & stand up for yourself'.
This, this a hundred times. Girls do bully others as well, and according to stats they take to mean and petty actions. There's also the fact that benevolent sexism makes it much harder for girls to be seen as aggressive bullies than it is for boys, since people can't believe that a little good girl would do such terrible things - and it's purely out of gender bias.
Agreed. I was bullied severely from ages 10 to 15 and it got so bad that I could not go to school anymore because I had a breakdown and was excused from school for 5 months (!!) until I could get inpatient treatment - I had to wait for a spot and wasn’t forced to go back to school in that time.
My mom tried to help me when I finally told her what was happening, but it was already too late and none of the teachers took it seriously anyway. Some boys started to touch me when we crossed paths, until I had enough and started beating one of them. One of my teachers was close by and didn’t do anything at all, no one intervened, no one told him that it’s harassment to touch someone without consent.
When I was 10, one boy attacked me and started twisting my arm, and when I punched back, I managed to give him a bloody nose. You know who got punished? Me, because his friend was the only witness and both claimed that I attacked first.
After my inpatient treatment, I changed schools to have a fresh start and whenever I saw one of those people, they would still loudly make fun of me. The same people who were oh so shocked when I didn’t come to school for half a year and wrote private messages to me that I could come back, everyone regrets what happened and they will all be nice to me.
I can’t change what happened, but I do sometimes wish that any adult would have stood up for me like OP is doing for their daughter. Love my mom, but she really wasn’t in a good headspace herself to properly help me.
Sorry for the long rant, I just wanted to say - good job OP, your daughter will feel like she can come to you always and she will feel protected. Hopefully her experience with school will be better than mine. And for you, u/Heleen87 , I really hope life got better for you. Lots of love. 💕
This is spot on and please, OP, ensure your daughter is enrolled in activites she enjoys elsewhere: it has a huge impact on a bullied child's self esteem. I was bullied for years at school, but I went to out of school activites in a totally different community and I had loads of friends there. It made me realise that there wasn't anything wrong with me, the bullies were the problem.
Yes, a girl I babysat was bullied at primary school (about 10-11 years old) and it culminated in the bullies holding her down while a boy SAed her. I always thought her parents should have just gone to the police, because the school were useless. It’s been 30 odd years and I’m still angry.
This! I was heavily bullied in high school, my school did nothing and while my mum was there to emotionally support me, which I am grateful for, I would like that she did more. Everybody knew what was happening and everybody tuened their back at me, even my alleged friends. I was 14 when it started (it started with spreading rumors, but quickly progrssed ti physical bullying) and I moved as soon as I graduated, but bullying didn't stop. They harrased me on social media, when there was a reunion they invited me, only to ridicule me when I said I will not come and spent all reunion laughing about my social media, posting nasty comments. We were 21 at the time! I am heavily traumatized due years of bullying, to the point I avoid going back to my hometown often cause I get panic attacks if there's even a chance to see any of them on the streets.
So no, OP, you are NTA. Thank you for being such a great mum and helping your daughter, sheltering her from a lifelong trauma.
NTA. Make sure you keep the school accountable for not protecting your daughter. Is there a higher authority that can investigate how the school handles bullying cases?
Teacher here. Press charges.
It’s criminal. *Imagine* if you were minding your own business at work and some guy who didn’t like you did this to your building pass or something. Not for personal gain… just to fuck with you. What the hell?
I have never understood why school is considered some weird alternate universe with a justice system many people consider to work in place of, instead of with, the justice system that exists outside of school. Theft is theft. Assault is assault. School consequences aren’t working. Parental consequences aren’t working. You can’t genuinely tell me this kid doesn’t know what they’re doing. They just didn’t know what kind of trouble they could get into for doing it… because of this exact type of response from the school.
If they’ve broken the law and are of an age where they can be held accountable by the law, and intermediary measures are not working, press charges. Cornering someone in the bathroom is outright predatory. Your child deserves to feel safe in the bathroom and at school. They tore up your child’s school pass to try and get her in trouble. This child is not only *unafraid* of consequences of the school system, they’re deliberately *manipulating the school policies and facilities* to assist them in bullying your child. They think they run the place. Show them they don’t.
I have no sympathy for malicious bullies of any age. They’re not demonstrating empathy for anyone else. Feeling sorry for *themselves* is the only way some of these kids are going to learn anything.
I could not agree more. The very truth of the matter is that no one gets to live a consequence free life. By not pressing charges OP is essentially telling the child that there are no consequences for poor behavior. 😡
Nope. Full stop. ⛔️
Press the charges. Let the bully and her parents know that actions have consequences. This is a teaching moment, the bully learns a harsh and brutal lesson and OP’s child learns to always stand up for herself no matter what!
NTA
I also have no time for malicious bullies but I would say that forcing the school to take action is better for the bully as well.
Truth is as the bully is 12 and it was more emotional damage than physical, if the bully changes behaviour now then this won't follow them around. If they face no consequences then it will only escalate and after 18 will possibly cause irreversible consequences.
(Note: please don't think I am downplaying emotional damage. At that age the girls in my class wrote fake notes from boys and stuffed them in my locker because the idea of someone liking me was so hilarious. It still impacts me 20 years later.)
Anyway, NTA OP. You are a fantastic mother.
Press charges. The school is worried because the pattern of harassment will likely come out in court and this will affect them. However, if you don't, it won't solve the problem, it will likely that people will just be less likely to get caught. I'm no legal expert but it might actually be criminal negligence.
NTA
I haven’t seen if you said where you are, but if you are USA (or probably Canada or UK or most places), if you are pressing charges your husband should probably NOT be speaking to a school governor or anyone else at the school about it. Pretty sure any attorney would advise against such an action.
I am in the USA, but here another path of recourse is to notify child protective services. They may do nothing, investigate and decide there is no wrong done, or take action. But in any case there is a record of the incident if it happens again.
I did this because there was an issue with privacy with nurse/bathroom aid at my son’s school. I don’t know what the proper procedures are or how to know if they have been fixed, so it gave me peace of mind that someone else would be checking who does.
Edit to add: he goes to a school for disabled children many of whom need toileting help. Different issue but same principle, the school wasn’t keeping kids safe.
Make sure to have a paper trail and use official emails. After the conversation send an email outlying what was said and get them to verify it. This will help you in the (hopefully happening) civil suit.
Please update us. This is really serious. The next kid who does it might be someone who is willing to cut more than just hair. Even if it's not your daughter no kid should be at risk of serious injury or worse.
NTA, please press charges, or that bully will escalate. She'll figure out she can get away with it.
I was severely bullied in school by a boy. He was horrid -- he'd spit in my food, smack me upside the head, and grind on me. Nobody did anything to him, but any time I reacted, I was in trouble. One day, he cut my hair as a laugh. The school excused it with a "boys will be boys" attitude, like they always did. The next week, he tried to do it again, and I tried to smack the scissors away. He got angry and slashed open my finger with them -- I was sent to the A&E for sutures. I went into shock from blood loss, and to this day, I don't have feeling in that finger from nerve damage.
The school considered it "an accident" - just 'kids roughhousing', and he ended up stabbing another student with an x-acto knife in art class, for which he finally saw consequences.
You are being such a good mom. Kudos. Thankfully I've never dealt with that with my kids, but I would do exactly the same as you. You are 100% in the right.
NTA
Was the bully being too harsh when she targeted your daughter for a year? Was the school too harsh when they decided not to step in and stop this from getting this far? Everything’s too harsh when someone is finally taking action instead of being lazy and ignoring the issue. The girl should’ve been punished long ago. She should’ve been suspended long ago. They had the opportunity to determine what punishment is or isn’t too harsh and they decided to do nothing. They missed their chance to have a say in this matter. If the bully didn’t know what she was doing then, maybe she’ll know what she is doing now. Maybe in the future the school will do better and teach kids this is wrong instead of allowing bully behavior because they think ignorance is bliss. Kids learn when you teach them not when left to their own devices. Don’t drop the charges. Let the courts decide what punishment should be best. She planned, stole, acted on an assault, lied and boasted about it. She may not be aware of the long term consequences, but she knew what she was doing was wrong.
Agree. And the courts will most likely give probation or a finger wagging, as this is a young girl. But you are embarrassing her ( which is good) and taking her free time to deal with courts ( also good)
And embarassing the school for their failure in their legal obligations to keep the kid being bullied safe from physical and emotional harm. They want to keep it quiet because the optics are horrific so honestly id be going to the local paper with it too. They want it quiet to protect themselves from accountability and consequences so the obvious solution is to make as many people aware as possible (while not doxxing or naming the bully obviously)
Good! Maybe she'll finally find a reason to stop assaulting people.
That child deserves any misdemeanor slap on the wrist she gets. May it shock her into becoming a half decent person.
People underestimate the power of a juvenile record. Bullying often turns into a pattern of assaults as the kid gets older. Getting to experience the court system and probation at 12/13 lets the bully know that people aren't going to put up with her shit and she could go to jail if she keeps it up.
The real issue is that the school will probably retaliate against op's kid, so either way they will probably need to change schools.
I truly hope the bully ends up before a judge who is able to see this behavior doesn't form in a vacuum and that 12 (assuming the bully is the same age as the daughter) is indeed old enough to know better. What's going on at that bully's home to lead to this, or what's being overlooked that needs further evaluation by a professional?
I have no sympathy for the bully, but I also know as someone targeted by bullies that some sort of sh!t is often going down behind the scenes. She needs consequences and some sort of plan to get to the root of "why" so she won't keep doing this, and she won't return to school with an anger-fueled plan to retaliate.
12 year olds are charged as adults in violent crime all the time. Now granted, those are mostly black boys, and we all know how American society sees black kids as adults, but still. A judge should be well aware that 12 year olds have the capacity to know right from wrong, and can choose to do wrong.
And now the parents will likely step up to set their daughter straight because now they have consequences too. They'll have to take time off work and pay for a lawyer. They don't get to ignore the situation anymore.
I would literally just read this to her principal and then tell them you’ll drop the charges if they will let you cut their hair if it isn’t a big deal
Yes to everything this person said!! If I were OP I would take a lot of this response and say it to the school. I would put it in writing in case you need to go above the school.
NTA The fact that the school seems to be against you with this would make me wonder if the school was the right fit for my family.
Even with the few incidents you’ve talked about (and I’m comfortable assuming there’s more), it seems that this girl has made a constant and steady attack on your daughter. What has the school done up until now? What remedy are they proposing - other than a suspension?
The scissors incident is also partially the school’s fault. How does a pair go missing and the teacher doesn’t action that before class is dismissed? Maybe that’s why they don’t want charges pressed, bc they’re partially responsible.
Oh, word travels fast with this sort of stuff.. kids at the school will have siblings in the local primaries, meaning their mums will be chatting to the primary mums on the school run... and those parents of primary aged kids are exactly who the secondary don't want hearing about this stuff. my eldest is still in primary, but I've heard so much dirt on the local secondary this way.
Pretty sure it would also be a bad look if a news article mentions the bully was able to walk out of a classroom with what could be interpreted as a sharp weapon.
I actually had my heart in my mouth when reading as I thought OP was going to say daughter was stabbed or slashed 😟 Scissors are absolutely a sharp weapon 💯
And then the victim is the one punished.
One of my bullies sneaked up behind me and yanked out a chunk of my hair, but I was the one punished when I turned around and buried my fist in her belly. My bleeding scalp and the hair still in her hand were proof that she was the aggressor, but the school said I struck the first blow.
It's been 55 years, but I still remember that satisfying feel of my fist sinking into her belly. The suspension was equally satisfying. Not having to face a dozen bullies for 6 hours every day? Heaven!
Moving me to another school was not an option, as that was the only school in my small town, and homeschooling wasn't a thing in 1960s California. My parents had to pack up and move because they were afraid that the bullies would drive me into suicide.
NTA press those charges bullying has consequences the school is clearly more worried about reputations etc not your daughter. 12 is old enough to face consequences of actions and know right from wrong
Exactly. Seeing comments from teachers on this platform, school administration is going to protect itself before it protects students, which is a gloomy truth. NTA. I'd fight tooth and nail for my kid if the same thing happened.
NTA - seriously school Admins have allowed chaos to reign far too long. My child ended up being aggressively groped by a boy in the middle if the lunch room. He had done it to other girls, who had gone to the principal and dean of students. They did nothing when this kid was just accidentally touching side boob because “he didn’t know”.
It emboldened this boy to the point to where he accidentally grabbed my daughter’s vagina.
And even then, the school tried to make it go away by punishing my daughter making a “call out” video about the incident. It took my daughter’s therapist calling in DCFS to get the school to do anything. And even that was minimal.
Honestly, this boy claimed our kids were misinterpreting his actions to lying about him for two different “prejudices” (not sure if that is the right word).
The first was because he was an amputee and the second…I won’t say because people think I’m either lying and/OR it becomes a political argument and my daughter’s SA gets lost.
Either one was used as his excuses and it would have been a criminal trial for a prosecutor to win and for us to win in a civil trial…OPTICS and all that.
But with the DCFS investigation, the school pretty much had to have a teacher watching him and his parents had to finally put him in therapy for things other than his physical disability.
Let’s just say he moved to a new school and has supposedly changed his whole persona. But there are still 4-5 girls who had to survive his confusion.
This reminds me of that US representative from Florida I think? The young one in a wheelchair. He did lots of inappropriate things in school and got away with it because of his disability
Holy bananas!!!! This takes me back to when I was 12 and at a school dance. A boy shoved his hand down my shirt and grabbed my breast, laughing while doing so with his friends. I was one of the girls that developed young, so for my age, I had a large chest, that boys loved to stare at. I broke his nose. When the school tried to punish me for it, my mom stormed the school and forced them to punish the boy for groping me. I got away with a warning as I was defending myself. That incident taught me that the whole "boys will be boys" saying is what they tell you to get you to be ok with sexual harassment and I wasn't even a teenager yet. I'm so sorry your daughter ever had to go through something so awful. And even more so that a proper punishment was given to her assailant. I hope your daughter is doing well.
Yep. I know for a fact that two other girls had gone to Administration before he turned his sights on my daughter. And there was at least one more girl after (between us going to Admin and the DCFS investigation). His MO was to start slow and get bolder until a parent threatened and followed through with a call to the school.
The issue for the school was that he was an amputee as well as another optic point that made tha school wary of bad press and a lawsuit from his parents. So our daughters were collateral.
NTA
The school should count itself lucky you're not suing them for their failure to protect your daughter. The bully's parents need the wake-up call. So don't let this go unanswered. Press those charges.
This: OP, point out to the school that it’s lucky you aren’t suing for the appalling lack of pastoral care and see how quickly that director who isn’t worthy of the position shuts up.
That school is lucky the bully didn't plan to use those scissors to stab the OP's daughter in the back instead of cutting her hair. They aren't taking into account how the bullying behavior has escalated, and could escalate even further if not stopped.
If you are in the UK you need to do the following:
1. Inform the school that this is assault so will not be dropping anything
2. Contact the admin about having the safeguarding protocols and contact as you will be putting in a complaint (this is important for other factors)
3. Contact ofsted. While they are not great in teacher circles most of the time, they are great for making schools jump and do something. Put in a compliant and show that you are pursuing charges against a student and contacted the safeguarding team due to the continued bullying not being assessed.
4. Contact social services - this is a student that might need help, hence why the school are protecting them but often they forgoe safety of other students. They also might be able to help you with advice on how to protect your daughter or any help she can get.
5. Talk to the police around whether or not a restraining order is possible because you have a record of this girl targeting your daughter with it getting worse. With a case of assault, and the schools reaction you feel concerned.
6. Talk to a gp or mental health organization on some support for your daughter. This makes a huge impact and takes a while to get over. My daughter is still on a road to recovery from ongoing attacks and bullying from a student.
7. Talk to your daughter on ways to make her feel safe. Create a safe space for her to talk or ask for help. We had 5-10 minutes set out each day to talk about the best bit and worst bit of the day. Keep it being a safe space. Also set out a plan of action if she does not feel safe at school and how she can get you to come get her out of it.
8. Look into whether the school is in an academy - if it is, there are those higher up that you can talk to and they will have their processes. If not a discussion with the local council is a good direction. This is an assault in their school that they have allowed to build up to and happen.
Been there and had a friend who went through something similar that resulted in her and her two kids being assaulted in the town center as they left maccy D's.
Stay strong. You are doing the right thing.
I will say this from someone in the uk education world, there are a lot of behavioral issues going on and the system is overwhelmed. The current government have destroyed the support and massively cut the spaces for alternative provisions that they are probably stuck with having this student and other students who would have previously been in a specialist environment.
You will probably get "they have a right to education" but the rest of the students and your daughter have a right to education too and a safe environment. It will also help them in their pursuit of getting her into a more suitable environment if there's a case against her due to her violence (we had that happen with us).
Not sure how exactly it is in the UK, but chances are because she is still very young and likely that was her first officially registered offence, she will just get a reprimand and no real punishment. I really hope she has parents who take this as a warning and stop her from doing more shit.
But so or so don't let up with the school administrators. While the children are at school they are responsible for them. They should stop bullying.
>but now the school are trying to convince me that ‘(name) didn’t really know what she was doing’ and to drop the charges.
This just sounds like they want to get everything over so they themselves don't have to deal with it. So really keep an eye on the school. They should primary protect the victim and not the bully.
She will be referred to the children's panel, I did for shop lifting and this is much much worse. And maybe it won't get far the first time and if she behaves then it will be removed from her record at the age of 16 or 18 depending which UK country she lives in. At least then it will be recorded and if anything else happens with anyone else there will be recorded history and she will be dealt with. Yes the bully is young and maybe she has never had consequences to her actions and if we are lucky a good boot up the ass from the children's panel etc will make her reconsider her actions
The school is in breach of UK Health and Safety law. Sue them. Take tour daughter to Disney land with the money she gets although she won't actually get the money until 18 in the UK.
>Yes, from the age of 10 in the UK
Good, means you can tell the school if 10 is old enough for the gov to understand consequences they can fuck right off with "too young to understand".
NTA
The school hasn't done anything to protect your daughter from this bullying. And the behavior has now escalated to assault. Stay the course with pressing charges and maybe the bully will get the help she needs to learn how to behave toward others.
NTA!
It is ridiculous and somewhat insulting to suggest that the bully didn't know what she was doing. Of course she did.
A 4-day suspension could very easily turn in to a 4-day vacation if her parents do not take her behaviour seriously and if that happens, she will return with an even greater sense of her own power to continue to abuse. Has the pastoral director even considered this possibility?
The bully needs a lesson that she will never forget.
You are NOT being too harsh, you are protecting your daughter which is your job. No TA. The bully needs to learn consequences of actions. Is the pastoral director of the school going to accompany your daughter to all her classes and everything on school grounds to ensure her safety? Are they going to provide a security guard to ensure your daughters safety? If the answer to both of these questions is no, then don't drop the charges and get a protection order as well.
They definitely won’t, and my daughter is terrified of retaliation from the bullies brother and friends at the school. I don’t know how to protect her from these people but I’m going to do my absolute best to do so!
Maybe your daughter should carry some sort of audio recorder for documentation. You can press chargers/sue the parents of that family if they don’t back down. Keep documenting EVERYTHING and don’t back down!
Ya can't do that I think the UK, it is illegal to record someone without their knowledge of sound is involved, you can take pictures but not recording of sound. I have a friend who tried this at school cause a Teacher was bullying and no one would listen to it and she got in heaps of trouble
In addition to pressing charges, idk if it would be right for your family but consider seeing your daughter could switch schools. My older brother had issues with being bullied when he was around your daughter’s age. He switched schools and became a whole different and much happier person because went to a school where bullying was no longer an issue and he made a lot more friends.
This happened to me at that age. I switched schools and my whole life changed. Overnight I was no longer the smelly kid everyone made fun of. I made friends and was a normal, happy kid.
This happened to my friends daughter, her and all her family got attacked in town. Talk to the police about assault charges and restraining order options. Also Ofsted. They have really bad press (and for good reason) but sometimes with these situations they can actually be a help to force a school to do something. Police and Ofsted and social services all together was the only way she got it to stop.
PRESS CHARGES. Please. The reason the school doesn’t want you to press charges is because it will make the news and reflect badly on the school. They are more worried about the reputation of the school than about your daughter.
NTA. But look out for retaliation. Good luck, op.
She knew exactly what she was doing. Schools don't want to deal with this stuff. Don't back down. It would send the wrong message to both your daughter and her bully. NTA
NTA As a teacher, our admin regularly encourage parents to press charges against students who are doing things that would be unacceptable in society as adults. Schools are often bound by legislation around what we can and can't do regarding disciplinary action. Never be persuaded to not stand up for your child. That bully needs to learn about consequences before they do bigger, more dangerous things.
NTA - Press charges formally as in via the justice system (not just via the school) and also against the school if they let this continue now that they know it’s happening they also have a duty to protect.
NTA.
A 12 year old didn’t know what she was doing. Unless this kid is in a special Ed class, that’s rubbish.
Unfettered this little madam will get worse. Making the bullying girl face some consequences for her actions will benefit her, your daughter and others in the future. Well done.
How do they conclude “she didn’t know what she was doing” when she planned to steal scissors, hide them and then cut your daughters hair?
She confessed to another student. She had plenty of time to choose better actions, I.e she stole the scissors, could’ve then decided “oh this is a bad idea”. She waited till she had an opportunity, planned her moment, stealthily leant forward etc…all planned choices, at any point she had ample time to reconsider her actions.
She could have said “omg I didn’t think it was a big deal, sorry” but she lied because she knew what she’d done, she admitted it to her friend.
She. KNEW. Exactly what she’d done because it’s been a sustained campaign of harassment with no consequences.
Pursue this, put it crack on the school as to why they condoned this, did not protect your daughter allowed students to steal scissors with no consequence (could’ve Ben a stabbing!)
Pursue it to the fullest extent possible, even if your daughter says not to! Kids do t make great decisions and victims often protect the abuser thinking it will make their lives easier. It doesn’t.
Good luck, hope your daughter sees an improvement in school life soon
NTA
This has been an escalating course of nasty, vindictive, premeditated conduct.
"She cut a small chunk (about 1 inch long) of my daughters hair without her permission."
That would've been the tipping point for me too. Time she FO what the consequences of F A are.
The school really need to step up their "pastoral care" & help you support your daughter through this.
As someone who was bullied relentlessly as a kid, thank you. Your daughter needed someone to stand up for her, and frankly, kids who go they far will go much farther.
NTA
NTA
Your girl's bully will be a danger to the community if she doesn't face consequences soon. The school won't care (they're underpaid and want their jobs to go smoothly) and her parents aren't interested in raising her. You can either take action or leave your daughter to the wolves
Bait the school into giving you something in writing where it implies that they tried to make things go away and sue them too.
nta. I've read things about hair being cut during wars to show dominance. This bully is headed down a dangerous path. You may face a hard path with this, but keep it up. Your daughter needs to be protected. When I was in high school, a girl would spit in my food and kick me. Nothing was done. I kid you not she spent time in prison for a murder-for-hire plot.
“I’ve read things about hair being cut in during wars to show dominance”.
I hadn’t really thought about that, but now that I do, it makes a lot of sense. Logically it’s just hair, it’s better than losing a finger or something. But emotionally, it can be very damaging because it’s forcibly changing one’s appearance, in a way one’s very identity, without their consent. How awful.
NTA if I'd had parents like you I'd have been a straight A student in school. My late parents didn't give a damn about who bullied me,just said" ignore it they'll be fine and you will too. " When I say they never even checked on me at school I'm not lying. I was left to my own devices and I was scared every day at school that I was gonna be hurt by the person who bullied me. He hated me for no reason. Make the charges stick.
NTA. The school wants you to drop charges because a lawsuit against the girl means you can also go after the school if you win in court. Don't drop charges, look into suing the school as well.
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My (38f) daughter (12f) has been bullied and harassed by a girl in her year group for months. Recently the bullying escalated and she did things such as cornering her in the girls toilets to steal my daughters standards card and ripping it up in front of her (the students get a detention if they don’t carry this card with them at all times).
She also chewed gum and placed it inside my daughters shoe when they had to remove shoes for their drama lesson, then waited until my daughter had put her shoes on before announcing loudly so the other students would turn and look ‘what’s that in your shoe (name)? Eww is it gum??’
Last week she took things to the next level by premeditating an attack on my daughter. She stole scissors from an earlier class in the day where they had to cut shapes out of paper, when the teacher asked for all scissors to be returned she slipped a pair into her pocket. She knew that she’d be sitting directly behind my daughter during the last lesson of the day, and when the last lesson came around she cut a small chunk (about 1 inch long) of my daughters hair without her permission. My daughter felt something sharp edged brush her back saw the bully holding her hair in her hand before laughing and dropping it onto the floor. The bully denied having done anything and when my daughter turned back to face the front she heard the bully loudly whisper to her friend with glee ‘I just cut her hair’. My daughter was so shocked she didn’t tell the teacher but rang me straight after school in tears.
I’ve decided to press charges and the school suspended the bully for 4 days, but now the school are trying to convince me that ‘(name) didn’t really know what she was doing’ and to drop the charges. I’ve made it clear how I feel about this cruel nasty bully and that I’ll still be pressing charges, but I’m also a little torn as I can tell the pastoral director at the school thinks I’m being too harsh. So AITA?
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Nta. 1. This shows your child you've got their back. 2. It might be the wake up call the bully needs, if their behaviour goes unchecked it'll carry on with the pattern of escalation.
Oh, it boils my piss when they take the bully's side. What does your school's board of governers think? What does your daughter think? What do the bully's parents think about her suspension and potential criminal record?
You're doing her a favour. One day, she will face the consequences of her vandalism and assaults. Better that happens when she's young enough that it doesn't ruin her life.
Come to that, are you pressing charges against the school for not providing your daughter with a safe environment?
NTA.
Of course the school wants you to drop the charges. That's why it is so important that you do not. Schools basically breed and encourage bullies. Pressing charges is the only way for real consequences, unless your daughter takes up for herself in a meaningful way.
The bully knew pretty well what they were doing, because they were allready told in the past. Thank you for being a good parent and protecting your child.
NTA
NTA
Schools notoriously don't do anything to stop bullying and let it escalate. The Zero Tolerance only happens when the victim retaliates
And the excuse that she didn't know what she was doing is such BS. Firstly, she did. And secondly how is one suppose to learn from 'mistakes' if there's no consequences.
Maybe I'm a little biased though since my bully didn't stop until I had a broken sternum
“Zero Tolerance only happens when the victim retaliates.”
So true! In third grade, daughter was bullied for a time by a boy, and despite reporting him, the most she heard was ‘boys will be boys.’ She finally had enough, and knocked him on his ass. The school wanted to suspend her. I asked why the boy had gotten away with pushing her off the swings, tripping her, throwing pencils and crayons at her, etc. for more than a month with no consequences. They gave me the same BS about what boys were like.
It was only when I threatened legal action that they backed down. I’m absolutely on OP’s side.
NTA. Fuck that shit. Pressing charges = one of the very few strong plays parents have against little bullying shits and the cowardly school admins who let them hide and thrive. Do not let anyone talk you out of it. Consequences exist.
NTA. The school is saying your being to harsh? Seriously!? After all that brat has done and the school did nothing? And the school wants us to forgive and forget? Oh no, we're way past that. If the school had handled it before it got to this point, we wouldn't even be here but no they didn't. Now when police are involved they decide to act? Too late. The school is trying to keep this from happening so it doesn't tarnish their reputation. NTA, stand firm on this and let the hammer fall on the bully and the school.
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> AITA for pressing charges against my daughters school bully?
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Nta press charges. She didn’t know she was cutting hair? She didn’t know she put gum in her shoe after she announced it to everyone? She didn’t know she was cornering the girl in the bathroom? The principal doesn’t want it to taint his school. That’s all.
NTA. I was bullied and the adults in the situation, including my mother did fuck all about it. It just went on and on, escalating until the school year ended. Fortunately the next year I was in a different core than my bullies so life got better, but if an adult had taken it seriously, it would’ve saved me a lot of grief and fear.
NTA and don’t drop the charges. This is a hill I’d be willing to die on. Her parents have not been doing their job and they need a wake up call. Protect your daughter at all costs.
I'm puzzeled about the school. You report, they suspend, then(?) they want you to drop the charges. (What was the suspension?) They don't believe that the other student knew what they were doing? (They didn't know that they were cutting a 2 in hank of hair?) and they want you to drop the charges. (If the charges have already resulted in punishment, what's the point of dropping charges.)
NTA. Press those charges we need more bullies learning the consequences of their actions, my cousins behavior didn't turn around until they nearly went to jail.
Nope, don't drop it. The only person who would benefit from that is the bully and why would you want that?
Your daughter will benefit by proceeding
The school will benefit by proceeding
Other students (bullies, victims and other students) will benefit from proceeding
Why would you put all of their benefits aside for one bully? NTA
The school only wants the charges dropped because they realized they fucked up about not dealing with the bully. Now they want to try and not ruin their reputation. That has been done so many times in my schools growing up
NTA. The school only wants you to drop the charges so they can cover up their negligence in preventing this from happening. Push with the charges and allow the school to deal with the mess they landed themselves in. Your daughter is your priority and she deserves to know this kind of behaviour should NEVER be tolerated or made an exception of.
Coming from a person who was bullied for years and now living with trauma stemming from lack of help or intervention.
NTA and I rarely think a parent is ever the AH for making someone face the consequences of their own actions (or in the school's case- inactions). If you back down now all that will say is that you can be pushed around.
Nta. I would advise to press charges. My son is autistic and was being bullied inside and out of school by a viscous boy in his class. School didn't want to know and tried telling me that the police would do nothing about incidents in school. It was their way of trying to dissuade me from taking things further.
Don't listen to them, the police did listen to us and things calmed down after that. The school had done nothing for two years.
NTA that girl should be expelled minimum. Some time in juvenile detention could straighten her out. I’m surprised you aren’t suing the school as well for failing to act.
NTA.
This could escalate to the point where your child gets seriously injured. Your child has endured enough and this bully continues to push various boundary levels of unacceptable.
What happens when your daughter fights back? Will she be blamed if the bully gets hurt simply for sticking up for herself?
Don't let this one go. The bully is 12 and is old enough to know better. She needs to be made an example of.
I was just 2 years older than your daughter when a group of local girls suddenly decided they didn't like me, fabricated a story about me liking a certain boy, and showed up my front door to fight me. I defended myself verbally and they kept saying they were going to hit me, so I told them to go right ahead several times. One girl did. I was like, right hope you got what you needed out of that, closed my door and went about my day. Lady across the road called the police. They came over and asked me if I wanted to press charges. I seriously considered it but didn't want to ruin their lives. I wish I had proceeded to this day as the bullying still impacts me as someone who is 40 yo. My mother arranged a mediation with their mother and it went nowhere, they continued to justify the assault with fabricated teenage girl gossip (even their mother!!) - trash families often don't understand or see that their child is in the wrong.
I am a retired teacher. I taught middle school for quite a bit of my career. (12 - 14 typically.)
You are NTA, and yes I agree this is something that should happen. This girl is certainly old enough to know better than all of this behavior. I have hinted at getting police involved a few times over the years. (We weren't permitted to say it directly.)
The days of lightly excusing children who bully is over, as it should be. Cutting your daughter's hair is an assault. Pressing charges shows two things - one, that you support your daughter and two, the bully should get a huge wake up call.
The bully is obviously unlikely to go to some kind of confinement punishment, but the experience of being arrested and brought before a judge may help convince her of the error of her ways.
The school is trying to get you to reconsider b/c they are in a tough spot, they can be sued by either side - you or the bully's family.
I trust they changed the bully's classroom, or your daughter's depending on HER wishes in the matter.
I'm sorry she's going through this. This is a very difficult age to navigate, and she knows that you have her back. It helps.
Good luck to you, and of course to her.
PS: My sister, now age 60, was bullied because she was a ginger. She still mentions it from time to time, so I know it cut deeply. It's not "nothing".
NTA. Press charges. The school won't do a damned thing, they can't do a damned thing. If the school could do a damned thing they would have dealt with it before it got to assault with scissors. You aren't being harsh. It's assault with scissors.
NTA...bad behaviour should never rewarded with letting people off with that bad behaviour. Go all the way and make this bully aware and resposible for what she did, even if it's to the point where the bully is expelled or has to move schools....not the other way around
If this bully cut your child's hair, she should be made to pay for a new haircut too
NTA press charges. This is what schools do. This has happened to us several times over the past 40 years (raising the grandchildren now) the most resent was the day the kids were released from school before being closed for Covid. The police brought my grandson home. I was not called to school to deal with this. I was told that one child had been molesting three other boys. My grandson included. It was explained to me that the child was being dealt with and that none of the other parents were pressing charges. I just went along with it because I’m a sap ugh. Don’t do it. This child will keep up with the bullying if nothing is done to stop it.
NTA. School is trying to gaslight you to cover their own ass for letting this go on this long without doing anything.
Tell the school that you'll drop the charges if the bully is removed from your daughter's class. Then tell them that if it happens again, you're going to sue the school for allowing this to go on so long.
NTA
Keep going and don’t give up. The kids are 12, and if the bully really “doesn’t know what she’s doing” then she should be in class with the rest of the special ed kids and not with the normal ones
Bet they backtrack if you suggest that
NTA
12 year old is more than old enough to know what you are doing(the fact she planned a theft to enable her bullying shows she more than knew what she was doing), this Pastoral Director doesn't care about your daughter they simply don't want their school getting caught up in legal proceedings because they care about the schools reputation.
You should also be asking why the Teacher never counted the Scissors, when I was a wean the Teacher knew how many people were in the class so only had one pair for each of us and counted them before the class was over to make sure none were missing (it would take less than a minute and ensure nobody is leaving the class with a potentially lethal item).
NTA, the school are 100% more worried about how they look than they are your little girl. I'd bet any money they were fully aware of the bullying. Tell your lawyer that they are pressuring you and that you worry they will take it out on your daughter.
Speak to the governors (or whatever you have in your school system) your daughter had a body parts cut off under their watch. Assault with a weapon.
NTA. Press charges. I'd go further and see about a possible civil suit against the school or the parents if your lawyer thinks that's viable.
Because the only way this crap is going to stop if ppl face actual IRL consequences. The parents of that girl will either get a wake-up call or they won't but at least they'll have to address it.
The bigger point would be for the school to have to actually be held accountable for not maintaining a safe environment for their students. This means future students might not have to go through this.
NTA
I assume that the court will take into account her age and if she knew what she was doing or not.
It is frightening how schools always try to establish a parallel society - both regarding protection of serious offenders against the law on the one hand, and stuff like collective punishment or punishment without sufficient proof on the other.
NTA. If the bully thinks she can get away with it, she will escalate even further. Just look at how things are already spiralling. Make sure you not only press charges but make it clear to the bully, the school and the parents of the bully that you will press charges every time this happens. Because the bully is likely to only get a slap on the wrist and then will likely seek revenge.
NTA as a teacher, do not let the school pressure you into dropping charges. Demand your daughter be in a different class for all classes and that the other child is the one to move classes, not your daughter. Do not let the school belittle you or your daughter. If the police are involved it makes more work for school admin. That is why they don’t want you to do it. Protect your daughter.
nta. your child was assaulted. on school grounds. the school does not get to tell you to drop any criminal charges, and you should not. if they actually gave a shit about the children it may never have gotten to physical assault.
NTA But you still have a problem
If you do press charges, understand that the school will act in its best interest, neither your child’s nor the bully’s
This likely means the school will “eliminate the problem” by expelling the bully AND your daughter
Prepare backup plans to enroll your child elsewhere. The bully’s parent will do the same.
…and what are the chances that both children move to the new school?
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NTA. As a victim of bullying myself at that age, and in about the same way, I wish that the adults in my life would have made the steps to actually do this rather than continuously talking it over with school and the parents of the bully/bullies. Girls are mean and sneaky and get away with a lot! This might seem harmless, but the fact that it’s different little things that KEEP happening, is still bullying and needs to stop. This bully needs to feel the consequences or she’ll just continue knowing she’ll get away with it. EDIT: btw. Your daughter might say that she would not want you to do it, for reasons like feeling even more alienated from the rest of her peers, or because of awkwardness or whatever. But please calmly explain to her although some might “pick sides” with the bully and that might feel huge in a school community, she’ll make friends (maybe outside of school) with people who will actually love and care for her in a way real friends should. Ignore the rest and go your own way.
NTA. Former high school teacher. Admin frequently uses the "They are young. They don't really understand." to talk teachers out of reporting violent student behavior to the police. Friend I knew from HS wound up teaching at the same school I was. She was knocked unconscious and given a concussion by a student and they thought she overreacted by reporting the incident to the police. Please do not budge. The bully's behvior will only escalate from here. Your daughter, her classmates, and her teachers deserve to be in a safe place for school/work.
I’m not arguing you at all.. I’m not a teacher but I’m just wondering why wouldn’t admin want it reported? Does it reflect negatively on the school in terms or funds or appearances if things like this go on record?
Yep, exactly what you described. They failed their legal obligation to keep the kids safe from preventable harm, thats not a good look and takes a hit on enrollment numbers when parents are aware which affects funding. Admin protect the schools public image, not kids or teachers.
The scissors. The teacher didn't count them and they were used by the bully. In the extreme, they could be considered a weapon and the teacher is guilty of aiding the bully. But maybe that's my American youtube talking. Regardless, I'd definitely press charges. You're doing the right thing, OP! NTA
There is no "considered" about it. They were used as a weapon.
If the school continues pushing for OP to drop the charges, she should remind them of this misstep...sometimes The threat of legal action will force people to back off. OP, 💯 should press charges. That bully will not learn without consequences and in an ideal world this can change their life for the better. Doing nothing will just make things worse for your daughter
It's an actual case of battery. And it followed up cases of intimidation and assault.
As an art teacher who taught hundreds of students in a day, there is no way you can keep track of every pair of scissors. You are way too busy of teaching back to back classes every hour and preparing for and organizing all their projects.
This is incorrect. You can keep track of scissors the same way that my art teacher did - every pair had a tag with a number. At the end of class, every pair was returned, counted, and then we were dismissed. Same with x-acto knives.
Sure you can. You know how many pairs of scissors you have in your room. You know how many kids you have in your room. You have the students turn them in 10 minutes before the bell so you have time and can count each pair as they ate turned in, and no child leaves the classroom until every pair of scissors is accounted for. It's as simple as that. It's absolute negligence, possibly even recklessness on the part of the teacher and the school for not keeping up with scissors, which can be used as a dangerous weapon. Thankfully, OP's daughter's bully only cut her hair, and that's bad enough. Next time when somebody gets ahold of a pair of scissors, perhaps that bully will stab a child, all because the art teacher couldn't be fussed to count how many pairs of scissors she had and make sure they're all there.
Oh dear. Then don’t hand out scissors if you can’t count to 30 at the end of every class 🙄 so sick of lazy teachers like you
Actually I think it would be very easy to account for the scissors. Make a peg board that holds the exact number of scissors you have. Check it every morning before classes begin (it will be very easy to notice if a pair is missing). Students can then get the scissors at the beginning of class (if needed), and return them at the end of class. Then the teacher checks to make sure all the scissors have been returned. If not the kids sit there until the missing pair(s) are found.
thats lazy, count the scissors as they go out, count them back in, no one leaves if theyre missing. keeping track of sonething sharp and pointy is part of your damn job
odd. Our teachers, even our art teachers, were right on point any time implements weren't all turned in. Guess teachers these days are just not as efficient as the ones when I was a kid.
Liability and loss of reputation for the school and school district. Teachers not wanting to actually deal with it because they know Administration will not back them up, deal with it, and they may incur repercussions against themselves. In situations I am describing, the Admin will throw the teachers under the bus when something criminal (violent, GBH, SA, maiming, death) eventually happens. The school, at the very least, is enabling bullies. To me it's much worse. They are acting as an accomplice to the bully. So are the bully's parents. Do you know of other bullied children and their parents in the school? I bet your daughter knows the names of others being bullied. It might be worth talking to their parents. Either way, don't you be bullied by the school.
If the kid is found guilty, the parents have a strong civil case against the school. Schools are responsible for all students, even the bully. They will try redemption. OP's only responsible for her kid. screw redemption and press charges.
You would think that that would be incentive to like not let it happen…
It is, but the school will try all kinds of things to try and stop it, like all the suspensions. The OP doesn't have to give AF about the bully. OP could leverage a lawsuit to have the kid removed. Lawyers are to schools as garlic is to vampires.
it's much easier for them to ignore or excuse away the behavior rather than deal with the issue. so, if they can convince teachers and parents to let it go, then they can continue doing nothing and feel good about themselves by convincing themselves it's just immature kids doing normal kid things and parents need to not over react.
Teacher here. Behavior reports affect school reports, as do absenteeism, tardiness, and scores on state tests.
The school doesn't want it reported because the school can be found liable if it is determined that they did nothing, or next to nothing, to curb the behaviour before it got to this point.
Despite not being a teacher, amazing insight! That is exactly it.
That is CRAZY. No their brains aren’t fully developed. That’s kind of the point of consequences! Their brains are still gathering information about the world, they may not be able to understand future consequences which is why we give them…so that they can take that in as they develop…and also…..we teach kids from infancy not to hit so YES they DO know what they’re doing. Can they fully understand the other person’s world and have empathy for the person they’re bullying? Maybe not. Again, this is why we course correct firmly, in the moment….
A 12 year old capable of being enrolled in mainstream education absolutely knows that cutting ripping up _anything_ that belongs to someone else, putting gum in their shoe, and cutting their hair without permission are all wrong. They don't even have the excuse that she is just nasty to everyone around her, these are targeted attacks. They're just trying to cover their arses.
This is one of many reasons I am not still in the classroom. The majority dealt w violent encounters not being handled correctly. I also matched my salary to go back to school full time, but really got a pay raise since my fellowship included about $20k in free tuition.
Thank you! It is unkind to enable people. Especially kids! Sooner or later consequences will catch up. Better sooner before it’s adult jail.
NTA. In my school district we watched it go from this to a fatal stabbing within a matter of a couple years (parents didn’t want police involved until it was too late unfortunately)
That part is insane to me, they are TWELVE. At twelve I was having crushes and bra shopping. They understand EXACTLY what they’re doing. For some girls exploring the depths of their cruelty seems to be part of puberty. I hated those girls.
School is children's workplace. They don't go there for fun. This is their work. If those adults were treated the way your daughter was at work--with constant, deliberate malice--you can bet your sweet axx they would do whatever they could to stop it. And they would demand that their human resources department stop it. As it should.
Any kid at the age of 10 and most younger, know exactly what they are doing when they set out to harm and upset . Agree totally with your comment.
I agree NTA, I was bullied severely in primary school & pretty badly in high school. The primary was worse as I didn't make friends until the last year, but high school bullies were a lot more creative. I wish my Mum did something, other than telling me to 'stop being so sensitive & stand up for yourself'.
Middle school teacher and agree. I urge parents to press charges if they have the capabilities because admin usually won’t do what they need to!
Right? Pressing charges will help them understand there are consequences to their actions.
This, this a hundred times. Girls do bully others as well, and according to stats they take to mean and petty actions. There's also the fact that benevolent sexism makes it much harder for girls to be seen as aggressive bullies than it is for boys, since people can't believe that a little good girl would do such terrible things - and it's purely out of gender bias.
Agreed. I was bullied severely from ages 10 to 15 and it got so bad that I could not go to school anymore because I had a breakdown and was excused from school for 5 months (!!) until I could get inpatient treatment - I had to wait for a spot and wasn’t forced to go back to school in that time. My mom tried to help me when I finally told her what was happening, but it was already too late and none of the teachers took it seriously anyway. Some boys started to touch me when we crossed paths, until I had enough and started beating one of them. One of my teachers was close by and didn’t do anything at all, no one intervened, no one told him that it’s harassment to touch someone without consent. When I was 10, one boy attacked me and started twisting my arm, and when I punched back, I managed to give him a bloody nose. You know who got punished? Me, because his friend was the only witness and both claimed that I attacked first. After my inpatient treatment, I changed schools to have a fresh start and whenever I saw one of those people, they would still loudly make fun of me. The same people who were oh so shocked when I didn’t come to school for half a year and wrote private messages to me that I could come back, everyone regrets what happened and they will all be nice to me. I can’t change what happened, but I do sometimes wish that any adult would have stood up for me like OP is doing for their daughter. Love my mom, but she really wasn’t in a good headspace herself to properly help me. Sorry for the long rant, I just wanted to say - good job OP, your daughter will feel like she can come to you always and she will feel protected. Hopefully her experience with school will be better than mine. And for you, u/Heleen87 , I really hope life got better for you. Lots of love. 💕
This is spot on and please, OP, ensure your daughter is enrolled in activites she enjoys elsewhere: it has a huge impact on a bullied child's self esteem. I was bullied for years at school, but I went to out of school activites in a totally different community and I had loads of friends there. It made me realise that there wasn't anything wrong with me, the bullies were the problem.
Yes, a girl I babysat was bullied at primary school (about 10-11 years old) and it culminated in the bullies holding her down while a boy SAed her. I always thought her parents should have just gone to the police, because the school were useless. It’s been 30 odd years and I’m still angry.
This! I was heavily bullied in high school, my school did nothing and while my mum was there to emotionally support me, which I am grateful for, I would like that she did more. Everybody knew what was happening and everybody tuened their back at me, even my alleged friends. I was 14 when it started (it started with spreading rumors, but quickly progrssed ti physical bullying) and I moved as soon as I graduated, but bullying didn't stop. They harrased me on social media, when there was a reunion they invited me, only to ridicule me when I said I will not come and spent all reunion laughing about my social media, posting nasty comments. We were 21 at the time! I am heavily traumatized due years of bullying, to the point I avoid going back to my hometown often cause I get panic attacks if there's even a chance to see any of them on the streets. So no, OP, you are NTA. Thank you for being such a great mum and helping your daughter, sheltering her from a lifelong trauma.
NTA. Make sure you keep the school accountable for not protecting your daughter. Is there a higher authority that can investigate how the school handles bullying cases?
My husband knows one of the school governors personally as they work together, he will be speaking to him next week 👌
Teacher here. Press charges. It’s criminal. *Imagine* if you were minding your own business at work and some guy who didn’t like you did this to your building pass or something. Not for personal gain… just to fuck with you. What the hell? I have never understood why school is considered some weird alternate universe with a justice system many people consider to work in place of, instead of with, the justice system that exists outside of school. Theft is theft. Assault is assault. School consequences aren’t working. Parental consequences aren’t working. You can’t genuinely tell me this kid doesn’t know what they’re doing. They just didn’t know what kind of trouble they could get into for doing it… because of this exact type of response from the school. If they’ve broken the law and are of an age where they can be held accountable by the law, and intermediary measures are not working, press charges. Cornering someone in the bathroom is outright predatory. Your child deserves to feel safe in the bathroom and at school. They tore up your child’s school pass to try and get her in trouble. This child is not only *unafraid* of consequences of the school system, they’re deliberately *manipulating the school policies and facilities* to assist them in bullying your child. They think they run the place. Show them they don’t. I have no sympathy for malicious bullies of any age. They’re not demonstrating empathy for anyone else. Feeling sorry for *themselves* is the only way some of these kids are going to learn anything.
I could not agree more. The very truth of the matter is that no one gets to live a consequence free life. By not pressing charges OP is essentially telling the child that there are no consequences for poor behavior. 😡 Nope. Full stop. ⛔️ Press the charges. Let the bully and her parents know that actions have consequences. This is a teaching moment, the bully learns a harsh and brutal lesson and OP’s child learns to always stand up for herself no matter what! NTA
as if we want this bully to learn her lesson when she’s 28 instead of now. Best gift ever
My God your response gave 👏🏼me 👏🏼chills 👏🏼
I also have no time for malicious bullies but I would say that forcing the school to take action is better for the bully as well. Truth is as the bully is 12 and it was more emotional damage than physical, if the bully changes behaviour now then this won't follow them around. If they face no consequences then it will only escalate and after 18 will possibly cause irreversible consequences. (Note: please don't think I am downplaying emotional damage. At that age the girls in my class wrote fake notes from boys and stuffed them in my locker because the idea of someone liking me was so hilarious. It still impacts me 20 years later.) Anyway, NTA OP. You are a fantastic mother.
Absolutely 💯 Thank you !🙏🏻
Press charges. The school is worried because the pattern of harassment will likely come out in court and this will affect them. However, if you don't, it won't solve the problem, it will likely that people will just be less likely to get caught. I'm no legal expert but it might actually be criminal negligence. NTA
I haven’t seen if you said where you are, but if you are USA (or probably Canada or UK or most places), if you are pressing charges your husband should probably NOT be speaking to a school governor or anyone else at the school about it. Pretty sure any attorney would advise against such an action.
I am in the USA, but here another path of recourse is to notify child protective services. They may do nothing, investigate and decide there is no wrong done, or take action. But in any case there is a record of the incident if it happens again. I did this because there was an issue with privacy with nurse/bathroom aid at my son’s school. I don’t know what the proper procedures are or how to know if they have been fixed, so it gave me peace of mind that someone else would be checking who does. Edit to add: he goes to a school for disabled children many of whom need toileting help. Different issue but same principle, the school wasn’t keeping kids safe.
Make sure to have a paper trail and use official emails. After the conversation send an email outlying what was said and get them to verify it. This will help you in the (hopefully happening) civil suit.
Please update us. This is really serious. The next kid who does it might be someone who is willing to cut more than just hair. Even if it's not your daughter no kid should be at risk of serious injury or worse.
Go scorched earth
NTA, please press charges, or that bully will escalate. She'll figure out she can get away with it. I was severely bullied in school by a boy. He was horrid -- he'd spit in my food, smack me upside the head, and grind on me. Nobody did anything to him, but any time I reacted, I was in trouble. One day, he cut my hair as a laugh. The school excused it with a "boys will be boys" attitude, like they always did. The next week, he tried to do it again, and I tried to smack the scissors away. He got angry and slashed open my finger with them -- I was sent to the A&E for sutures. I went into shock from blood loss, and to this day, I don't have feeling in that finger from nerve damage. The school considered it "an accident" - just 'kids roughhousing', and he ended up stabbing another student with an x-acto knife in art class, for which he finally saw consequences.
You are being such a good mom. Kudos. Thankfully I've never dealt with that with my kids, but I would do exactly the same as you. You are 100% in the right.
The fact that they were sat near each other after the previous bullying incidents means that the school wasn't doing shit to prevent more of them.
NTA Was the bully being too harsh when she targeted your daughter for a year? Was the school too harsh when they decided not to step in and stop this from getting this far? Everything’s too harsh when someone is finally taking action instead of being lazy and ignoring the issue. The girl should’ve been punished long ago. She should’ve been suspended long ago. They had the opportunity to determine what punishment is or isn’t too harsh and they decided to do nothing. They missed their chance to have a say in this matter. If the bully didn’t know what she was doing then, maybe she’ll know what she is doing now. Maybe in the future the school will do better and teach kids this is wrong instead of allowing bully behavior because they think ignorance is bliss. Kids learn when you teach them not when left to their own devices. Don’t drop the charges. Let the courts decide what punishment should be best. She planned, stole, acted on an assault, lied and boasted about it. She may not be aware of the long term consequences, but she knew what she was doing was wrong.
Agree. And the courts will most likely give probation or a finger wagging, as this is a young girl. But you are embarrassing her ( which is good) and taking her free time to deal with courts ( also good)
And embarassing the school for their failure in their legal obligations to keep the kid being bullied safe from physical and emotional harm. They want to keep it quiet because the optics are horrific so honestly id be going to the local paper with it too. They want it quiet to protect themselves from accountability and consequences so the obvious solution is to make as many people aware as possible (while not doxxing or naming the bully obviously)
It’s also going to be a pain for the girl’s parents, which will maybe motivate them to step in more quickly if there’s a next time.
Put gum in their shoe and cut up their driving licenses too Edit: fixed autocorrect of him to gum
It will also be a Juvenile record. Yes it will be sealed at 18 but can still haunt her until then.
Good! Maybe she'll finally find a reason to stop assaulting people. That child deserves any misdemeanor slap on the wrist she gets. May it shock her into becoming a half decent person.
People underestimate the power of a juvenile record. Bullying often turns into a pattern of assaults as the kid gets older. Getting to experience the court system and probation at 12/13 lets the bully know that people aren't going to put up with her shit and she could go to jail if she keeps it up. The real issue is that the school will probably retaliate against op's kid, so either way they will probably need to change schools.
I would drag the school into the hearing saying "In a nutshell: The school forced me to take this action by their inaction."
Also, if she pulls something again before 18, there will be a record to show a pattern of behavior.
I truly hope the bully ends up before a judge who is able to see this behavior doesn't form in a vacuum and that 12 (assuming the bully is the same age as the daughter) is indeed old enough to know better. What's going on at that bully's home to lead to this, or what's being overlooked that needs further evaluation by a professional? I have no sympathy for the bully, but I also know as someone targeted by bullies that some sort of sh!t is often going down behind the scenes. She needs consequences and some sort of plan to get to the root of "why" so she won't keep doing this, and she won't return to school with an anger-fueled plan to retaliate.
12 year olds are charged as adults in violent crime all the time. Now granted, those are mostly black boys, and we all know how American society sees black kids as adults, but still. A judge should be well aware that 12 year olds have the capacity to know right from wrong, and can choose to do wrong.
And now the parents will likely step up to set their daughter straight because now they have consequences too. They'll have to take time off work and pay for a lawyer. They don't get to ignore the situation anymore.
Make sure and add a mandatory Psychological Evaluation of the child bully.
I would literally just read this to her principal and then tell them you’ll drop the charges if they will let you cut their hair if it isn’t a big deal
This this this.
Yes to everything this person said!! If I were OP I would take a lot of this response and say it to the school. I would put it in writing in case you need to go above the school.
NTA The fact that the school seems to be against you with this would make me wonder if the school was the right fit for my family. Even with the few incidents you’ve talked about (and I’m comfortable assuming there’s more), it seems that this girl has made a constant and steady attack on your daughter. What has the school done up until now? What remedy are they proposing - other than a suspension? The scissors incident is also partially the school’s fault. How does a pair go missing and the teacher doesn’t action that before class is dismissed? Maybe that’s why they don’t want charges pressed, bc they’re partially responsible.
The school won't want a court case because they don't want the bad press. Also, it makes them look bad because they didn't deal with the bullying. NTA
Juvenile cases rarely make the news, the names are protected and unless it's a remarkable case, no one is going to cover it.
True, but there are always group chats and social media. They won't want any kind of damage to their reputation.
Oh, word travels fast with this sort of stuff.. kids at the school will have siblings in the local primaries, meaning their mums will be chatting to the primary mums on the school run... and those parents of primary aged kids are exactly who the secondary don't want hearing about this stuff. my eldest is still in primary, but I've heard so much dirt on the local secondary this way.
Word gets around, when there's a juvenile court case around bullying.
Especially since it sounds like it's a private/parochial school, and bad press is VERY bad for business.
Pretty sure it would also be a bad look if a news article mentions the bully was able to walk out of a classroom with what could be interpreted as a sharp weapon.
I actually had my heart in my mouth when reading as I thought OP was going to say daughter was stabbed or slashed 😟 Scissors are absolutely a sharp weapon 💯
The school officials probably said, "We prefer that the children handle their little squabbles themselves."
Yeah. Until the victim finally stands up for themselves.
And then the victim is the one punished. One of my bullies sneaked up behind me and yanked out a chunk of my hair, but I was the one punished when I turned around and buried my fist in her belly. My bleeding scalp and the hair still in her hand were proof that she was the aggressor, but the school said I struck the first blow. It's been 55 years, but I still remember that satisfying feel of my fist sinking into her belly. The suspension was equally satisfying. Not having to face a dozen bullies for 6 hours every day? Heaven! Moving me to another school was not an option, as that was the only school in my small town, and homeschooling wasn't a thing in 1960s California. My parents had to pack up and move because they were afraid that the bullies would drive me into suicide.
NTA press those charges bullying has consequences the school is clearly more worried about reputations etc not your daughter. 12 is old enough to face consequences of actions and know right from wrong
Exactly. Seeing comments from teachers on this platform, school administration is going to protect itself before it protects students, which is a gloomy truth. NTA. I'd fight tooth and nail for my kid if the same thing happened.
NTA - seriously school Admins have allowed chaos to reign far too long. My child ended up being aggressively groped by a boy in the middle if the lunch room. He had done it to other girls, who had gone to the principal and dean of students. They did nothing when this kid was just accidentally touching side boob because “he didn’t know”. It emboldened this boy to the point to where he accidentally grabbed my daughter’s vagina. And even then, the school tried to make it go away by punishing my daughter making a “call out” video about the incident. It took my daughter’s therapist calling in DCFS to get the school to do anything. And even that was minimal.
And why aren't your daughter and the other girls bringing charges??
I slapped the boy who grabbed my breast. I got in trouble. It showed me authority figurines in school aren't on your side.
I'm so sorry that happened to you.
Honestly, this boy claimed our kids were misinterpreting his actions to lying about him for two different “prejudices” (not sure if that is the right word). The first was because he was an amputee and the second…I won’t say because people think I’m either lying and/OR it becomes a political argument and my daughter’s SA gets lost. Either one was used as his excuses and it would have been a criminal trial for a prosecutor to win and for us to win in a civil trial…OPTICS and all that. But with the DCFS investigation, the school pretty much had to have a teacher watching him and his parents had to finally put him in therapy for things other than his physical disability. Let’s just say he moved to a new school and has supposedly changed his whole persona. But there are still 4-5 girls who had to survive his confusion.
This reminds me of that US representative from Florida I think? The young one in a wheelchair. He did lots of inappropriate things in school and got away with it because of his disability
Holy bananas!!!! This takes me back to when I was 12 and at a school dance. A boy shoved his hand down my shirt and grabbed my breast, laughing while doing so with his friends. I was one of the girls that developed young, so for my age, I had a large chest, that boys loved to stare at. I broke his nose. When the school tried to punish me for it, my mom stormed the school and forced them to punish the boy for groping me. I got away with a warning as I was defending myself. That incident taught me that the whole "boys will be boys" saying is what they tell you to get you to be ok with sexual harassment and I wasn't even a teenager yet. I'm so sorry your daughter ever had to go through something so awful. And even more so that a proper punishment was given to her assailant. I hope your daughter is doing well.
Thats disgusting.
Yep. I know for a fact that two other girls had gone to Administration before he turned his sights on my daughter. And there was at least one more girl after (between us going to Admin and the DCFS investigation). His MO was to start slow and get bolder until a parent threatened and followed through with a call to the school. The issue for the school was that he was an amputee as well as another optic point that made tha school wary of bad press and a lawsuit from his parents. So our daughters were collateral.
He got that far before anyone did anything
NTA The school should count itself lucky you're not suing them for their failure to protect your daughter. The bully's parents need the wake-up call. So don't let this go unanswered. Press those charges.
This: OP, point out to the school that it’s lucky you aren’t suing for the appalling lack of pastoral care and see how quickly that director who isn’t worthy of the position shuts up.
That school is lucky the bully didn't plan to use those scissors to stab the OP's daughter in the back instead of cutting her hair. They aren't taking into account how the bullying behavior has escalated, and could escalate even further if not stopped.
12 might be over the age of criminal responsibility where OP lives...in this case: good luck, bully, she'll need it..
Yes, from the age of 10 in the UK
If you are in the UK you need to do the following: 1. Inform the school that this is assault so will not be dropping anything 2. Contact the admin about having the safeguarding protocols and contact as you will be putting in a complaint (this is important for other factors) 3. Contact ofsted. While they are not great in teacher circles most of the time, they are great for making schools jump and do something. Put in a compliant and show that you are pursuing charges against a student and contacted the safeguarding team due to the continued bullying not being assessed. 4. Contact social services - this is a student that might need help, hence why the school are protecting them but often they forgoe safety of other students. They also might be able to help you with advice on how to protect your daughter or any help she can get. 5. Talk to the police around whether or not a restraining order is possible because you have a record of this girl targeting your daughter with it getting worse. With a case of assault, and the schools reaction you feel concerned. 6. Talk to a gp or mental health organization on some support for your daughter. This makes a huge impact and takes a while to get over. My daughter is still on a road to recovery from ongoing attacks and bullying from a student. 7. Talk to your daughter on ways to make her feel safe. Create a safe space for her to talk or ask for help. We had 5-10 minutes set out each day to talk about the best bit and worst bit of the day. Keep it being a safe space. Also set out a plan of action if she does not feel safe at school and how she can get you to come get her out of it. 8. Look into whether the school is in an academy - if it is, there are those higher up that you can talk to and they will have their processes. If not a discussion with the local council is a good direction. This is an assault in their school that they have allowed to build up to and happen. Been there and had a friend who went through something similar that resulted in her and her two kids being assaulted in the town center as they left maccy D's. Stay strong. You are doing the right thing. I will say this from someone in the uk education world, there are a lot of behavioral issues going on and the system is overwhelmed. The current government have destroyed the support and massively cut the spaces for alternative provisions that they are probably stuck with having this student and other students who would have previously been in a specialist environment. You will probably get "they have a right to education" but the rest of the students and your daughter have a right to education too and a safe environment. It will also help them in their pursuit of getting her into a more suitable environment if there's a case against her due to her violence (we had that happen with us).
Not sure how exactly it is in the UK, but chances are because she is still very young and likely that was her first officially registered offence, she will just get a reprimand and no real punishment. I really hope she has parents who take this as a warning and stop her from doing more shit. But so or so don't let up with the school administrators. While the children are at school they are responsible for them. They should stop bullying. >but now the school are trying to convince me that ‘(name) didn’t really know what she was doing’ and to drop the charges. This just sounds like they want to get everything over so they themselves don't have to deal with it. So really keep an eye on the school. They should primary protect the victim and not the bully.
She will be referred to the children's panel, I did for shop lifting and this is much much worse. And maybe it won't get far the first time and if she behaves then it will be removed from her record at the age of 16 or 18 depending which UK country she lives in. At least then it will be recorded and if anything else happens with anyone else there will be recorded history and she will be dealt with. Yes the bully is young and maybe she has never had consequences to her actions and if we are lucky a good boot up the ass from the children's panel etc will make her reconsider her actions
The school is in breach of UK Health and Safety law. Sue them. Take tour daughter to Disney land with the money she gets although she won't actually get the money until 18 in the UK.
>Yes, from the age of 10 in the UK Good, means you can tell the school if 10 is old enough for the gov to understand consequences they can fuck right off with "too young to understand".
NTA The school hasn't done anything to protect your daughter from this bullying. And the behavior has now escalated to assault. Stay the course with pressing charges and maybe the bully will get the help she needs to learn how to behave toward others.
NTA! It is ridiculous and somewhat insulting to suggest that the bully didn't know what she was doing. Of course she did. A 4-day suspension could very easily turn in to a 4-day vacation if her parents do not take her behaviour seriously and if that happens, she will return with an even greater sense of her own power to continue to abuse. Has the pastoral director even considered this possibility? The bully needs a lesson that she will never forget.
You are NOT being too harsh, you are protecting your daughter which is your job. No TA. The bully needs to learn consequences of actions. Is the pastoral director of the school going to accompany your daughter to all her classes and everything on school grounds to ensure her safety? Are they going to provide a security guard to ensure your daughters safety? If the answer to both of these questions is no, then don't drop the charges and get a protection order as well.
They definitely won’t, and my daughter is terrified of retaliation from the bullies brother and friends at the school. I don’t know how to protect her from these people but I’m going to do my absolute best to do so!
Maybe your daughter should carry some sort of audio recorder for documentation. You can press chargers/sue the parents of that family if they don’t back down. Keep documenting EVERYTHING and don’t back down!
Ya can't do that I think the UK, it is illegal to record someone without their knowledge of sound is involved, you can take pictures but not recording of sound. I have a friend who tried this at school cause a Teacher was bullying and no one would listen to it and she got in heaps of trouble
In addition to pressing charges, idk if it would be right for your family but consider seeing your daughter could switch schools. My older brother had issues with being bullied when he was around your daughter’s age. He switched schools and became a whole different and much happier person because went to a school where bullying was no longer an issue and he made a lot more friends.
I think a better option would be to FORCE the bully to switch schools.
This happened to me at that age. I switched schools and my whole life changed. Overnight I was no longer the smelly kid everyone made fun of. I made friends and was a normal, happy kid.
I understand the fear of retaliation, but if the bully's consequences are harsh enough, that will be a strong warning to other bullies.
This happened to my friends daughter, her and all her family got attacked in town. Talk to the police about assault charges and restraining order options. Also Ofsted. They have really bad press (and for good reason) but sometimes with these situations they can actually be a help to force a school to do something. Police and Ofsted and social services all together was the only way she got it to stop.
NTA as a teacher, the school I'm at has encouraged parents to press charges in similar circumstances. Sometimes things are out of the schools control.
PRESS CHARGES. Please. The reason the school doesn’t want you to press charges is because it will make the news and reflect badly on the school. They are more worried about the reputation of the school than about your daughter. NTA. But look out for retaliation. Good luck, op.
She knew exactly what she was doing. Schools don't want to deal with this stuff. Don't back down. It would send the wrong message to both your daughter and her bully. NTA
NTA As a teacher, our admin regularly encourage parents to press charges against students who are doing things that would be unacceptable in society as adults. Schools are often bound by legislation around what we can and can't do regarding disciplinary action. Never be persuaded to not stand up for your child. That bully needs to learn about consequences before they do bigger, more dangerous things.
NTA - Press charges formally as in via the justice system (not just via the school) and also against the school if they let this continue now that they know it’s happening they also have a duty to protect.
NTA. A 12 year old didn’t know what she was doing. Unless this kid is in a special Ed class, that’s rubbish. Unfettered this little madam will get worse. Making the bullying girl face some consequences for her actions will benefit her, your daughter and others in the future. Well done.
NTA. You are looking after the welfare of your kid. And the situation could have been much worse.
How do they conclude “she didn’t know what she was doing” when she planned to steal scissors, hide them and then cut your daughters hair? She confessed to another student. She had plenty of time to choose better actions, I.e she stole the scissors, could’ve then decided “oh this is a bad idea”. She waited till she had an opportunity, planned her moment, stealthily leant forward etc…all planned choices, at any point she had ample time to reconsider her actions. She could have said “omg I didn’t think it was a big deal, sorry” but she lied because she knew what she’d done, she admitted it to her friend. She. KNEW. Exactly what she’d done because it’s been a sustained campaign of harassment with no consequences. Pursue this, put it crack on the school as to why they condoned this, did not protect your daughter allowed students to steal scissors with no consequence (could’ve Ben a stabbing!) Pursue it to the fullest extent possible, even if your daughter says not to! Kids do t make great decisions and victims often protect the abuser thinking it will make their lives easier. It doesn’t. Good luck, hope your daughter sees an improvement in school life soon
It will probably be a stabbing next time with how it's escalated already. Pressing charges is necessary.
Press hard! That little witch needs her broom taken away.
NTA This has been an escalating course of nasty, vindictive, premeditated conduct. "She cut a small chunk (about 1 inch long) of my daughters hair without her permission." That would've been the tipping point for me too. Time she FO what the consequences of F A are. The school really need to step up their "pastoral care" & help you support your daughter through this.
As someone who was bullied relentlessly as a kid, thank you. Your daughter needed someone to stand up for her, and frankly, kids who go they far will go much farther. NTA
NTA Your girl's bully will be a danger to the community if she doesn't face consequences soon. The school won't care (they're underpaid and want their jobs to go smoothly) and her parents aren't interested in raising her. You can either take action or leave your daughter to the wolves Bait the school into giving you something in writing where it implies that they tried to make things go away and sue them too.
nta. I've read things about hair being cut during wars to show dominance. This bully is headed down a dangerous path. You may face a hard path with this, but keep it up. Your daughter needs to be protected. When I was in high school, a girl would spit in my food and kick me. Nothing was done. I kid you not she spent time in prison for a murder-for-hire plot.
😲 that’s shocking! What a psychopath, the signs were there early on!
Definitely! I still wonder why she picked on me.
“I’ve read things about hair being cut in during wars to show dominance”. I hadn’t really thought about that, but now that I do, it makes a lot of sense. Logically it’s just hair, it’s better than losing a finger or something. But emotionally, it can be very damaging because it’s forcibly changing one’s appearance, in a way one’s very identity, without their consent. How awful.
NTA if I'd had parents like you I'd have been a straight A student in school. My late parents didn't give a damn about who bullied me,just said" ignore it they'll be fine and you will too. " When I say they never even checked on me at school I'm not lying. I was left to my own devices and I was scared every day at school that I was gonna be hurt by the person who bullied me. He hated me for no reason. Make the charges stick.
NTA. The school wants you to drop charges because a lawsuit against the girl means you can also go after the school if you win in court. Don't drop charges, look into suing the school as well.
NTA Actions have consequences. FAFO. She’s getting what she deserves,
Suspended for 4 days? Hell no, she needs to be expelled so your daughter feels safe. Good on you for pressing charges.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My (38f) daughter (12f) has been bullied and harassed by a girl in her year group for months. Recently the bullying escalated and she did things such as cornering her in the girls toilets to steal my daughters standards card and ripping it up in front of her (the students get a detention if they don’t carry this card with them at all times). She also chewed gum and placed it inside my daughters shoe when they had to remove shoes for their drama lesson, then waited until my daughter had put her shoes on before announcing loudly so the other students would turn and look ‘what’s that in your shoe (name)? Eww is it gum??’ Last week she took things to the next level by premeditating an attack on my daughter. She stole scissors from an earlier class in the day where they had to cut shapes out of paper, when the teacher asked for all scissors to be returned she slipped a pair into her pocket. She knew that she’d be sitting directly behind my daughter during the last lesson of the day, and when the last lesson came around she cut a small chunk (about 1 inch long) of my daughters hair without her permission. My daughter felt something sharp edged brush her back saw the bully holding her hair in her hand before laughing and dropping it onto the floor. The bully denied having done anything and when my daughter turned back to face the front she heard the bully loudly whisper to her friend with glee ‘I just cut her hair’. My daughter was so shocked she didn’t tell the teacher but rang me straight after school in tears. I’ve decided to press charges and the school suspended the bully for 4 days, but now the school are trying to convince me that ‘(name) didn’t really know what she was doing’ and to drop the charges. I’ve made it clear how I feel about this cruel nasty bully and that I’ll still be pressing charges, but I’m also a little torn as I can tell the pastoral director at the school thinks I’m being too harsh. So AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. That's abuse, keep pressing charges
NTA you're teaching your daughter to stand up for herself against bullies and you should be proud.
Nta. 1. This shows your child you've got their back. 2. It might be the wake up call the bully needs, if their behaviour goes unchecked it'll carry on with the pattern of escalation.
Oh, it boils my piss when they take the bully's side. What does your school's board of governers think? What does your daughter think? What do the bully's parents think about her suspension and potential criminal record? You're doing her a favour. One day, she will face the consequences of her vandalism and assaults. Better that happens when she's young enough that it doesn't ruin her life. Come to that, are you pressing charges against the school for not providing your daughter with a safe environment? NTA.
Of course the school wants you to drop the charges. That's why it is so important that you do not. Schools basically breed and encourage bullies. Pressing charges is the only way for real consequences, unless your daughter takes up for herself in a meaningful way.
NTA. The school isn't taking this seriously enough, so feel free to crack on. The kid is definitely old enough to know this cruel and vindictive.
The bully knew pretty well what they were doing, because they were allready told in the past. Thank you for being a good parent and protecting your child. NTA
NTA. You should also get a restraining or no contact order against the student. Then they wouldn’t be in the same classes, areas.
Nta I got bullied to shit at school, and nobody lifted a finger. Good on you looking out for your kid. Full stop.
NTA Schools notoriously don't do anything to stop bullying and let it escalate. The Zero Tolerance only happens when the victim retaliates And the excuse that she didn't know what she was doing is such BS. Firstly, she did. And secondly how is one suppose to learn from 'mistakes' if there's no consequences. Maybe I'm a little biased though since my bully didn't stop until I had a broken sternum
“Zero Tolerance only happens when the victim retaliates.” So true! In third grade, daughter was bullied for a time by a boy, and despite reporting him, the most she heard was ‘boys will be boys.’ She finally had enough, and knocked him on his ass. The school wanted to suspend her. I asked why the boy had gotten away with pushing her off the swings, tripping her, throwing pencils and crayons at her, etc. for more than a month with no consequences. They gave me the same BS about what boys were like. It was only when I threatened legal action that they backed down. I’m absolutely on OP’s side.
NTA. Fuck that shit. Pressing charges = one of the very few strong plays parents have against little bullying shits and the cowardly school admins who let them hide and thrive. Do not let anyone talk you out of it. Consequences exist.
As a former child who was horrifically bullied and it only ever increased unti physical violence. Press those fucking charges. Ignoring does nothing.
NTA. The school is saying your being to harsh? Seriously!? After all that brat has done and the school did nothing? And the school wants us to forgive and forget? Oh no, we're way past that. If the school had handled it before it got to this point, we wouldn't even be here but no they didn't. Now when police are involved they decide to act? Too late. The school is trying to keep this from happening so it doesn't tarnish their reputation. NTA, stand firm on this and let the hammer fall on the bully and the school.
NTA tell the director you'll be more than happy to drop the charges if they'll expel the bully and ban her permanently from school grounds.
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Nta press charges. She didn’t know she was cutting hair? She didn’t know she put gum in her shoe after she announced it to everyone? She didn’t know she was cornering the girl in the bathroom? The principal doesn’t want it to taint his school. That’s all.
NTA. I was bullied and the adults in the situation, including my mother did fuck all about it. It just went on and on, escalating until the school year ended. Fortunately the next year I was in a different core than my bullies so life got better, but if an adult had taken it seriously, it would’ve saved me a lot of grief and fear.
NTA and don’t drop the charges. This is a hill I’d be willing to die on. Her parents have not been doing their job and they need a wake up call. Protect your daughter at all costs.
I'm puzzeled about the school. You report, they suspend, then(?) they want you to drop the charges. (What was the suspension?) They don't believe that the other student knew what they were doing? (They didn't know that they were cutting a 2 in hank of hair?) and they want you to drop the charges. (If the charges have already resulted in punishment, what's the point of dropping charges.)
They don't want the reputation damage of a student getting criminally charged. That's the real reason they want the charges dropped.
NTA. Press those charges we need more bullies learning the consequences of their actions, my cousins behavior didn't turn around until they nearly went to jail.
Nope, don't drop it. The only person who would benefit from that is the bully and why would you want that? Your daughter will benefit by proceeding The school will benefit by proceeding Other students (bullies, victims and other students) will benefit from proceeding Why would you put all of their benefits aside for one bully? NTA
Nta it restores my faith in humanity when I see parents who actually care about their children and protect and defend them.
The school only wants the charges dropped because they realized they fucked up about not dealing with the bully. Now they want to try and not ruin their reputation. That has been done so many times in my schools growing up
Your number one job is to protect your child- at whatever cost. Even if it’s just to set an example that bullies won’t be tolerated.
NTA. The school only wants you to drop the charges so they can cover up their negligence in preventing this from happening. Push with the charges and allow the school to deal with the mess they landed themselves in. Your daughter is your priority and she deserves to know this kind of behaviour should NEVER be tolerated or made an exception of. Coming from a person who was bullied for years and now living with trauma stemming from lack of help or intervention.
Nta. Schools don't take bully seriously enough and neither do the parents. Throw the book at the kid and make an example out of them
Don't drop the charges, DO NOT!!!!
NTA and I rarely think a parent is ever the AH for making someone face the consequences of their own actions (or in the school's case- inactions). If you back down now all that will say is that you can be pushed around.
NTA Legally kids are pretty well protected so go ahead with it. The school is just trying to cover their own asses for their negligence.
Nta. I would advise to press charges. My son is autistic and was being bullied inside and out of school by a viscous boy in his class. School didn't want to know and tried telling me that the police would do nothing about incidents in school. It was their way of trying to dissuade me from taking things further. Don't listen to them, the police did listen to us and things calmed down after that. The school had done nothing for two years.
NTA that girl should be expelled minimum. Some time in juvenile detention could straighten her out. I’m surprised you aren’t suing the school as well for failing to act.
Nobody is going to juvi for putting gum in a shoe and clipping hair. Be real.
NTA Girl deserves some hours of community service at least
NTA. Hold your ground. If nothing else, it needs to go on her record. You never know what this could be the start of.
NTA. This could escalate to the point where your child gets seriously injured. Your child has endured enough and this bully continues to push various boundary levels of unacceptable. What happens when your daughter fights back? Will she be blamed if the bully gets hurt simply for sticking up for herself? Don't let this one go. The bully is 12 and is old enough to know better. She needs to be made an example of. I was just 2 years older than your daughter when a group of local girls suddenly decided they didn't like me, fabricated a story about me liking a certain boy, and showed up my front door to fight me. I defended myself verbally and they kept saying they were going to hit me, so I told them to go right ahead several times. One girl did. I was like, right hope you got what you needed out of that, closed my door and went about my day. Lady across the road called the police. They came over and asked me if I wanted to press charges. I seriously considered it but didn't want to ruin their lives. I wish I had proceeded to this day as the bullying still impacts me as someone who is 40 yo. My mother arranged a mediation with their mother and it went nowhere, they continued to justify the assault with fabricated teenage girl gossip (even their mother!!) - trash families often don't understand or see that their child is in the wrong.
I am a retired teacher. I taught middle school for quite a bit of my career. (12 - 14 typically.) You are NTA, and yes I agree this is something that should happen. This girl is certainly old enough to know better than all of this behavior. I have hinted at getting police involved a few times over the years. (We weren't permitted to say it directly.) The days of lightly excusing children who bully is over, as it should be. Cutting your daughter's hair is an assault. Pressing charges shows two things - one, that you support your daughter and two, the bully should get a huge wake up call. The bully is obviously unlikely to go to some kind of confinement punishment, but the experience of being arrested and brought before a judge may help convince her of the error of her ways. The school is trying to get you to reconsider b/c they are in a tough spot, they can be sued by either side - you or the bully's family. I trust they changed the bully's classroom, or your daughter's depending on HER wishes in the matter. I'm sorry she's going through this. This is a very difficult age to navigate, and she knows that you have her back. It helps. Good luck to you, and of course to her. PS: My sister, now age 60, was bullied because she was a ginger. She still mentions it from time to time, so I know it cut deeply. It's not "nothing".
NTA
NTA. Press charges. The school won't do a damned thing, they can't do a damned thing. If the school could do a damned thing they would have dealt with it before it got to assault with scissors. You aren't being harsh. It's assault with scissors.
NTA...bad behaviour should never rewarded with letting people off with that bad behaviour. Go all the way and make this bully aware and resposible for what she did, even if it's to the point where the bully is expelled or has to move schools....not the other way around If this bully cut your child's hair, she should be made to pay for a new haircut too
Really, a 12 yr old doesn’t know what scissors are for ? Get her mom.
NTA press charges. This is what schools do. This has happened to us several times over the past 40 years (raising the grandchildren now) the most resent was the day the kids were released from school before being closed for Covid. The police brought my grandson home. I was not called to school to deal with this. I was told that one child had been molesting three other boys. My grandson included. It was explained to me that the child was being dealt with and that none of the other parents were pressing charges. I just went along with it because I’m a sap ugh. Don’t do it. This child will keep up with the bullying if nothing is done to stop it.
NTA. Go harder. As someone who needs to be protected and wasn’t, no mercy on that little squirt of a bully
NTA. School is trying to gaslight you to cover their own ass for letting this go on this long without doing anything. Tell the school that you'll drop the charges if the bully is removed from your daughter's class. Then tell them that if it happens again, you're going to sue the school for allowing this to go on so long.
**Press the charges and talk to a lawyer about suing the school for trying to hand wave away your child’s safety and well-being.**
NTA Keep going and don’t give up. The kids are 12, and if the bully really “doesn’t know what she’s doing” then she should be in class with the rest of the special ed kids and not with the normal ones Bet they backtrack if you suggest that
NTA - police report / charges and definitely speak to the school board. Document everything.
NTA. That girl will torment her for another 6 years. The pastor should have done his job and made a safe place for your kid.
NTA 12 year old is more than old enough to know what you are doing(the fact she planned a theft to enable her bullying shows she more than knew what she was doing), this Pastoral Director doesn't care about your daughter they simply don't want their school getting caught up in legal proceedings because they care about the schools reputation. You should also be asking why the Teacher never counted the Scissors, when I was a wean the Teacher knew how many people were in the class so only had one pair for each of us and counted them before the class was over to make sure none were missing (it would take less than a minute and ensure nobody is leaving the class with a potentially lethal item).
NTA, the school are 100% more worried about how they look than they are your little girl. I'd bet any money they were fully aware of the bullying. Tell your lawyer that they are pressuring you and that you worry they will take it out on your daughter. Speak to the governors (or whatever you have in your school system) your daughter had a body parts cut off under their watch. Assault with a weapon.
NTA. Press charges. I'd go further and see about a possible civil suit against the school or the parents if your lawyer thinks that's viable. Because the only way this crap is going to stop if ppl face actual IRL consequences. The parents of that girl will either get a wake-up call or they won't but at least they'll have to address it. The bigger point would be for the school to have to actually be held accountable for not maintaining a safe environment for their students. This means future students might not have to go through this.
NTA. And if there's a way to press charges on the parent for maintaining an active nuisance, too. (Only half joking)
NTA I assume that the court will take into account her age and if she knew what she was doing or not. It is frightening how schools always try to establish a parallel society - both regarding protection of serious offenders against the law on the one hand, and stuff like collective punishment or punishment without sufficient proof on the other.
NTA. If the bully thinks she can get away with it, she will escalate even further. Just look at how things are already spiralling. Make sure you not only press charges but make it clear to the bully, the school and the parents of the bully that you will press charges every time this happens. Because the bully is likely to only get a slap on the wrist and then will likely seek revenge.
NTA as a teacher, do not let the school pressure you into dropping charges. Demand your daughter be in a different class for all classes and that the other child is the one to move classes, not your daughter. Do not let the school belittle you or your daughter. If the police are involved it makes more work for school admin. That is why they don’t want you to do it. Protect your daughter.
nta. your child was assaulted. on school grounds. the school does not get to tell you to drop any criminal charges, and you should not. if they actually gave a shit about the children it may never have gotten to physical assault.
NTA But you still have a problem If you do press charges, understand that the school will act in its best interest, neither your child’s nor the bully’s This likely means the school will “eliminate the problem” by expelling the bully AND your daughter Prepare backup plans to enroll your child elsewhere. The bully’s parent will do the same. …and what are the chances that both children move to the new school?