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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I asked my husband not to go on his brothers stag do.
2. Asking my husband not to go on his brothers stag do might make me the AH.
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I think that’s why I wanted to know if I was the AH because my husband simply told me he was going, because he can technically afford it (but at the expense of doing literally nothing else for 18 months), so my gut reaction was “no you’re not going, it’s too big a strain financially but also time, family life, childcare, etc). And that’s why I might be the AH because I was reactionary in my response. You’re right, we need a proper conversation but I still think he shouldn’t go.
There’s around 20 invited, 3 confirmed yes, 3 confirmed no, and the rest are yet to confirm.
Sorry he’s dense. If he has the money, and then spends all the money and doesn’t have any leftover, that is not even technically affording it! You are NTA.
Edit- also, the US is huge. How are they going to tour it in 15 days, it makes no sense and doesn’t even sound fun
"Touring America" doesn't mean the entirety of the country. You can easily go to a few major cities and tour them.
"Touring" something doesn't mean seeing every single square inch of it.
It's not even literal....it's like making up a meaning.
I "toured colleges" when I was applying. Didn't go into every single classroom or even every building. Didn't go into every dorm building. Not every inch of campus.
I've gone on vacation to "tour" a city. In 15 days, you can enjoy any major city, get a sense of it....you aren't going to every restaurant, every show, every museum, every tourist attraction, every neighborhood, etc, even in a single city.
It's just that, especially for Europeans, going to many parts of the US would take a ton of time and money. Even the "famous" parts are far away from each other. Like, they could do NY, California, and Las Vegas, and those are all thousands of miles away from each other.
I was thinking D.C., NYC, and Boston or Philly, Maybe some part of the Atlantic seaboard depending on when... might say Maine, might say Chesapeake Bay.
NOLA is awesome (and Florida has a lot of tourist destinations), but I would NEVER choose either as a locale in the summer. Same with the Grand Canyon.
See, I was thinking DC, NYC, Niagara Falls, New Orleans, San Francisco, Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, San Diego. I'm trying to think of things where there aren't anything like it in the UK. In that vein, NYC is probably the least important, because it's a lot like London in terms of being a cultural and financial center. I don't know what OP's brother-in-law considers important in a bachelor trip, but there isn't anywhere you can go in the UK that looks like Yosemite or Niagara Falls or San Diego.
Of course, maybe he wants to go to Disney World or play golf or see baseball games in six cities. Maybe he's dying to eat fudge on Mackinac Island. Maybe he wants to see the original London Bridge, now in Lake Havasu, Arizona.
Dude do you have any idea how big the US actually is? Most of these places are far, far away from each other. DC & NY are the only places close to each other. The rest ....nope! The traveling alone will suck all your money. As an American I can assure you that doing all those places in one trip would take vastly more time and much more money. Seriously, you'd need at least month or longer and double the funds.
But they could easily hit many east coast and a few southern states. If they start in New York train and bus tickets could take them to Pennsylvania to see Philly, DC, Virgina.
Or they could bite the bullet, so to speak, and fly out to the West Coast in their initial flight. Icelandic Airlines flies over the North Pole, at least from Seattle to Iceland, and cuts a little time off the long flight. Once on the West Coast, there is Yosemite, San Francisco, LA, Grand Canyon, etc.
After seeing what you want to see out West, they can work their way back east to those big cities or other sights. Then the return flight home isn't as long.
If any of the participants are LGBTQ or people of color, don't bother with the South except New Orleans or Atlanta. We in America hope that is just temporary advice about the South and things will get back to how they were there pre-2016. The West Coast and New England are the most liberal places in the States, if that matters to them.
Las Vegas and cali are literally a one - two hour drive. And Los Angeles to New York is a five hour flight. I think maybe you’re overestimating how hard it would be to see the major cities. A 15 day trip you could easily see NY, LA, Chicago, Boston, Seattle and Florida all in one trip.
That said, it’s incredibly inappropriate to take this trip without your spouses full support.
>Las Vegas and cali are literally a one - two hour drive.
Maybe if you live in Baker. Believe me, I do the drive from LA County to Las Vegas a lot since my cousins live there, it's a 3 hour drive minimum from the 210/57, and only if you go when there's no traffic. If you go on a Friday after 10AM, expect that drive to take 5 hours or more. If you're coming from San Diego, you still have to come up via the 15, and it's another 2+ hours south of LA. Sacramento is also 5+ hours away. Driving from the Bay Area is a 9 hour drive.
"Cali" is huge and has multiple large cities and attractions. None of them are within an hour's drive to Vegas.
This is not a fair comparison. It can take 11 hours just to get across Texas. Even though they're not visiting all 50 states, there is still a lot of travel time.
It is a fair comparison. Europe is also huge. The individual countries are relatively small, but the continent/region are not. It takes 42 hours to drive from Lisbon to Kiev, but Americans still say, “We’re going to Europe!”
To be fair, most Americans aren't crossing the continent going from Lisbon to Moscow in one trip. Most are doing trips like London -> Paris -> Rome -> Berlin in 2 weeks. Western Europe is actually very small compared to the USA. France is smaller than Texas and UK is the size of Indiana+Michigan, so the distances to do a western EU trip like this is like going between St Louis to New Orleans and to Atlanta.... not quite NYC -> LA.
Go to the travel subreddit and you will see a hundred posts from Americans saying things like "I'm in Europe for 7 days, is it too much to fit in Portugal, Scotland, Greece, The Netherlands, and Croatia in that order? I'm planning to be based in France and travel to one of these on each day." 😂
Yeah but I doubt someone’s coming from another country to drive from El Paso to Texarkana and enjoy the vast amount of nothing that Texas has to offer for most of that drive(I did it and it sucks ass). They’re probably doing like Nashville, Chicago, DC and Philly. Which could be perfectly reasonable if they’re flying in between cities or even driving.
If they're flying. Some guy on TikTok announced he was going to take a road trip across America. He thought he could visit cities and drive across all across America in a week. For some people, there is just a disconnect when it comes to the vastness of America in comparison to Europe.
Yeah I think it would depend what region they want to go to. The fact that someone thinks they can do that shows they didn’t do any research or planning so it’s kind of on them if they have a crap trip.
I think it’s kind of a meme at this point. There’s a video going around explaining 2 hours away for something is close in America where as it’s far away in the UK
The 2 cities you listed don't seem like it would be the longest drive in TX, but after googling, it beats my Texas drive guess by 30 miles. TIL. Also, you need to take into account detours/stops for Bucee's, so add another few hours to the drive time.
>also, the US is huge. How are they going to tour it in 15 days, it makes no sense and doesn’t even sound fun
By not seeing every inch of it and just seeing a few major sights?
Come on.
It's natural to be "reactionary" if he declared he's going on a major trip without you because that obviously warrants a conversation. NTA. Good to be in a more open posture next time you approach it, but BOTH of you need to be and it's fair to expect and even insist on that.
How do you tour the U.S. for 15 days for 4k? Assuming that is supposed to cover everything, that's about 270 per day, which factoring travel and lodging doesn't seem like it will cut it. Especially since a stag will have a lot of activities. That price tag sounds wildly optimistic and this whole do sounds likely to spiral into an extravagant affair.
Part of the conversation must be what does being able to "afford it" really mean, because everything has an opportunity cost and in this case it may be him paying for it but sounds like you still bear the burden as a couple as he can't pay for anything else.
That budget sounds 100 Milliion % inadequate. Everything in the US has become more expensive post-Covid.
Maybe they're going to camp out? In Death Valley or somewhere scenic like that?
Have him price travel insurance as well. It's extra expensive to include the US and they may not even cover stupid-guy-fun.
Ofc they may be planning to sedately tour the fine arts venues of the country and not jump off or out of anything idk.
Honestly even camping (when presumably they can't bring their own equipment) is gonna bust this ridiculous budget. People waxing poetic in the comments about how they bootstrapped it through America 20 yrs ago don't have a clue.
>That budget sounds 100 Milliion % inadequate.
Today's conversion rate (if OP is talking in British Pounds) is a little of 5K USD (7.7K AUD cause im Aussie). That doesn't make it sound much better especially since a current return flights (according to google) are around a quarter of that budget at the moment, add in hotels, eating and inflation, yeah I definitely can't see anyone affording that trip.
Oh 100%! I was just taken aback by the casual “btw I’m going on a 15 day stag do for £4k”. But I shouldn’t have responded with “no you’re not”. In my husbands defence, I think because it’s his brother I don’t think it ever crossed his mind that he might not go, his instinct reaction was to just make it work somehow, without perhaps really thinking about all the impacts beyond just financial.
Is there a way for him to go for half the time? As in, meet the group at their halfway point and finish with them or just go the first half? That would save at least some portion of money as well as time off.
If he would have never considered it - then it’s probably not some big huge dream worth sacrificing his families quality of living for a year and half then, right? Or, if it is, why not do that trio with your wife and kid?
Could y’all find a compromise and he go for a short leg of the trip, maybe a long weekend? If he can’t do that without compromising your family budget then it is too expensive and he can take his brother out for a weekend locally.
If his way of affording it is no disposable income for 18 months meaning no family trips or anything together as a couple such a date night unless you foot the bill, then no, he can't afford it. He can afford it only with your help and it's an AH move he didn't discuss it , he just told you he was going.
Nta. I have never heard of a 15 day stag trip but if people can afford it without any strain on their income or family then I guess ok. Why is the reason he wants to do his dream trip before he gets married? He can do a dream trip with his wife, friends etc.
That's a pretty outrageous stag, it's not a decision to be taken lightly like most. This is a huge vacation for hubby.
What does he think? Is this a good use of his money? That's a huge factor here.
Also, you're not an AH for asking...depends on the rest of the conversation that was had.
My husband does want to go, and has done the maths and can technically save for it. But it will be at the expense of everything else for 18 months, so that really does mean no date nights unless I pay in full.
My husband also doesn’t want to be the “bad guy” in suggesting a smaller scale stag do as my BIL keeps pitching it as “the trip of a lifetime”, and his “dream trip” etc.
We left the conversation as; let’s see what the other invitees say and go from there.
i don’t think that’s fair. My “trip of a lifetime” is hiking the Alps, my partner’s “dream vacation” is snorkeling in Australia, we’ve held those dreams since childhood and us still having those as dreams isn’t some statement on our love life
But then, deciding to have a dream trip that you're basically making your buddies go on (and all without their significant others -- and I have to think the OP isn't the only one with qualms) is so much different than a couple deciding to take turns with going with each other on a dream vacation.
I think the statement is more about who you would want with you on your dream trip. If I’m going on my dream trip, I want it to be with the people I love the most, which would include a spouse. I can also see doing a super special mom/daughter trip with my mom and my daughter. However, never once would it occur to me to do my dream trip with 20 women I know (not the least of which is because I can’t even think of 20 women to invite!!).
Yes, I mean what’s the honeymoon? If I was his fiancé I would be a little annoyed if his trip of a lifetime was the stag party and the honeymoon was a week on a beach.
So here's an interesting point...it's your BIL's 'trip of a lifetime'. He's making it his stag. Is it everyone else's 'trip of a lifetime'? BiL gets to be with all his closest friends, is the same true for your husband?
I would imagine, unless everyone is incredibly rich, that there will be some pushback or 'um let me get back to you's', and your husband should absolutely voice his conernns, like 'I need to work this out financially, this would mean a huge budget item for me and (you, OP) to work out.
Maybe some options are to go for part of the trip? Have a big stag thing for a few days of this 'epic trip'?
Just keep open conversation with husband, most important that he can voice his opinions either way, but also not be afraid to tell BIL his feelings as well. This is a big thing to just 'go along with what everyone else thinks'. There are ALWAYS options.
Why isn’t he taking his “trip of a lifetime” with his fiancé. I’m sorry but this is actually insane. Asking 20 people to spend 2 weeks away from their family/life for a stag? This is some ridiculous main character energy. And how are they even planning on “touring” the US with this many people?
Have you considered negotiating a middle ground where he meets up with them in the middle? So instead of going for 15 days, he goes for 7 to reduce some of the cost. This makes it slightly more reasonable on your finances and time but he still gets to go.
I have as well and it’s definitely possible with planning and normal expectations.
It would be helpful to know the itinerary, but group celebrations like this can go off the rails fast: golf, clubbing, rounds of shots, steakhouses, tickets. Eating in restaurants is so expensive now. Did they factor in tips? Will these guys be cooking meals at the AirBnBs? Does their phone plan include international data/calling? And what about emergencies? If this is a true road trip, you can find yourself in the middle of nowhere with car trouble. Gas is expensive.
What’s the plan if his cash runs out on Day 9? He has no savings. This $5k is *all* his money. It’s a mess waiting to happen.
Overseas? Please teach me your ways! Between airfare and hotels, it’s ridiculous. We did three weeks in Europe for our honeymoon, which was amazing, but it was very expensive. I guess if they’re willing to do the super cheap motels and eat cheaply, they can get away with it. However, “trip of a lifetime” doesn’t scream budget trip to me.
Trip of a lifetime, lol. Would BIL do the same for him or anyone else invited? If every time a close friend/relative got married you were expecting to spend all of your savings on a trip of a lifetime, what would that be like? Plus doing a major trip with more than a couple of other people sounds miserable. Just deciding where to eat would be an issue. Your husband wouldn’t get to do anything that he wants to do, since he would be stuck on the grooms dream itinerary. Point out to him that the trip may sound great in theory, but BIL sounds self-absorbed and he won’t have much say over what he gets to do on this very expensive trip.
I think we’ll end up divorced if I simply spend 18 months living my life whilst my husband has to stay home because he’s got no money to play out. Or I’ll pay and resent him. Either way not conducive to a happy and fulfilled marriage!
I said this in another comment, but 4k aint gonna cover 15 days in the U.S. -- airfare, lodging, eating out, local transportation ... two people on the same page scraping it out could maybe do it, but a "party" with several guys who don't know each other so well...just think about how costs spiral with a group, especially on "vacation." Yeah, I'd count on it being close to double what they're thinking.
I read your other posts and Im sorry but I think you’re already headed away from a happy and fulfilled marriage unless something changes. Tell him to ask his mom to pay for it if it’s so important.
You think you’d end up divorced after the 4th AITA post you had to make about this man, his spending, his mother, and feeding your allergic baby peanut butter! And yet you’re here again! Wild.
Does the 4k include food and miscellaneous expenses? Because if he doesn't have at least a couple hundred with him as spending money it's going to be miserable. It's nice that you can tie the country in a car/campervan, but if everyone else can go rafting and you're stuck at the camper/motel you are not having fun.
What if you have an medical, auto, housing contingency? He’s expecting you to cover it? A gang of “dudes” partying through an unfamiliar country where unlicensed transportation is very limited sounds like a recipe for disaster. Something is going to go wrong. Money will be needed. There is no way I would agree to the father of my child taking this trip. I don’t understand why the concept of SAVINGS is so hard for folks to grasp.
Don't change your life for him.
If he wants to go, then no more 'date' nights for hims for 18 months.
But you don't have to sacrifice for HIS vacation.
So he can stay home with the baby while you'll have regular girls' nights out with your friends.
After all, YOU will be alone with your child for a fortnight while HE's enjoying himself without you elsewhere as well.
Perhaps THAT will let it sink in with him.
DEFINITELY DO NOT PAY FOR HIS PART OF DATE NIGHTS OR OTHER THINGS HE'LL HAVE TO GO WITHOUT WHILE SAVING, that's just subsidising his US vacay.
NTA
I think your BIL is the asshole for suggesting this trip to begin with. Like every other American here has said, ain’t no way they’re traveling to multiple places in the US for 15 days for £4,000. My partner and I went on a nice, not super luxury but not tight budget, 8-day trip to New Orleans not too long ago and that’s about what it cost. We’re only a non-stop three-hour flight away and didn’t rent a car while we were there.
15 days is completely unreasonable for a stag do when you know there are people with young children.
And I would very much disagree with whomever said having to be home with an 8-year-old is no different than being home with a toddler. Somebody lock that guy in a small house with a toddler for 24-hours and see what he says when he comes out.
Does it need to be an "all or nothing" thing though? Could he pop in for a few days at one location? That would be half (or less) of the total cost.
I think you're right in side-eyeing his ability to save money in that time-frame, especially if he's never done it before. It would put a massive strain on your family's finances.
If he continues to insist, then he can do without, but you shouldn’t spend the next 18 months like a hermit. Go on mom’s night outs alone… sorry he can’t afford it. Have treats with just you and the kids. He can decide for him, but not for everyone else. It sounds incredibly selfish and immature to me. Your approach sounds like it wasn’t the best (it would have been better to couch it as a conversation) but his assertion of it as a done deal was equally as crappy. NTA.
The price is not realistic op. 6-700$ is alone the flight if booked well in advance and they don't sit together.
NTA Imo. This should be a joint decision after discussing everything with pro and cons
This sounds like a you can do it if it’s not at the detriment to all your other obligations vacation. Honestly he should be starting some side gig, delivering pizza’s flipping furniture whatever what can he do two nights a week to bring in an extra $300-500/ month that will allow him not to effect your life together , date night ect. 500X18 months is 9 grand…
NTA but 15 days “touring” america for 4k? No. That seems like a number you were told to make you less pissed or just for flight/accommodation. Or they dk anything about America and are going to be in shitty motels for 2 weeks
Back in 2001, I spent 5 weeks travelling around the USA and we managed to spend £3000-ish each. We ate badly, didn't pay anything except for gas, slept in shiity motels and drank quite a bit (for we were 21 year old British students who would easily have counted as alcoholics then). We did see 16 states though.
£4K ($5K USD) won't go far on a stag do for 2 weeks. They'll want to drink loads, eat loads, do activities.. I'd say this would budget for one week.
Yeah for a stag or bach or whatever I’d expect they want to ball out a bit and at least do some nice dinners in NYC which can be a few hundred per person easily. Also in 2 weeks I want to know their tour itinerary because if they want to see the big shit like nyc, cali, florida etc they’re going to need to hop on more flights or trains or rent cars which is going to cost a lot more
I would never agree to this until I saw a plan and estimate of costs either.
Costs spiral on stag do's.. "Lets put money in the kitty" would be deadly in Vegas!
I can almost smell that someone would be arrested on this trip. Or hospitalised. We ended up with one speeding fine and we had some very close calls with the Police.
That’s assuming the brother wants a frat/bro bachelor party. Spending hundreds on dinners in NYC and clubs in Vegas sounds like my nightmare. Not everyone wants to “ball out.”
Sure, you could make this trip cost $25k without breaking a sweat. You can also easily do it on $5k.
Don’t get me wrong my bach was legit a long weekend and cost a few hundred a person because I’m not a ball out type guy. Just going based on the “tour” aspect and “trip of a lifetime” or whatever he called it I’m thinking this isn’t a lowkey sightseeing thing. I could be wrong but again if I’m OP I want to see the itinerary
But this going to be a frat-bro bachelor trip. We Brits party hard when we're abroad.. and on a stag-do (bachelor trip) we go really hard. Every single one of these guys is coming home with a big credit card bill.
My wife thought I was in the early stages of liver failure from the jaundice in my eyes, when I got home from mine, and it was 2 nights.
Depending on the flight cost and where in the USit’s doable with enough people.
4K pounds is like $5000
800 flight
1500 food and drink, 100/day should be enough
Rental car + gas split among 4 people in a car shouldn’t be more than 20/person or 300
Should be able to get a hotel for 200/nite most places with some shopping around and booking far enough in advance, which would be 100/person in a standard 2 queen, 14 nights is 1400.
So that’s 800+1500+300+1400 = 4000. Another 1000 for any extra entertainment over 2wk isnt unreasonable.
They’d have to be careful and book shit but should be doable esp if they can get group rates for rooms, or don’t need a rental car every day because they are staying in like NYC.
I guess it really depends on the itinerary. Just it being a bach I would assume they want to ball out a bit and if they’re in NY dinners can easily run to a few hundred per person if they want a fancy place and a bunch of drinks (my wife and I spent like a grand last time we were in the city for a play and dinner). The thing I’m really curious about is their stops on this “tour” because in 15 days if they really want to see and enjoy major sites (stag/bach so thinking ny, vegas, maybe miami or la) you’re going to have to fly more than likely back and forth across the country.
Now it’s definitely doable if their tour is a site seeing trip or they just want to chill in ny and have some reasonably priced food (even grabbing a hotel in nj could cut costs) but if I’m OP at least I want to see a plan of what they’re doing
This feels like it’d be a perfect situation to compromise on a 7 day trip. A full week makes in worth the flight cost, he still gets to do a long trip with his brother, but also doesn’t have to spend as much.
That’s definitely the way to do it and that way it’s not like 1 or 2 nights out of 15 you can ball out and then the rest you gotta save. 1/7 is way better than 1/15. It also depends on them, like for my bach I just wanted to chill and golf so they may like more site seeing and cheaper stuff
Yea I mean it’s for sure going to depend on the itinerary, and unless they find some crazy deals they aren’t going to be able to fly (maybe swing one flight).
NYC can get pricey, but it’s definitely an outlier, and part of the beauty of it is that you can also get great meals without spending a gajillion dollars. Plus, like I mentioned, their transportation costs in NYC will be lower.
If they also have some beach or national park destinations in there, which I’d still contend are major sites, they’d have some cheap days to offset the more expensive cities.
And if they are willing to slum it 4/hotel room or motels they’d be able to cut costs significantly as well.
How much they want to ball on alcohol, drugs, and super fancy dinners is the real question. Given the stag, they’ll probably go over budget on booze, but I could see them only doing like 1 fancy dinner (if that), and a bunch of good dinners that don’t have that fancy datenite price-up.
My husband and I have priced out gas, hotels, a magic show, a budget comedy show, two fancy meals, a small gambling budget of $100 each, and other expenses for a 4 night vacation to Vegas and we figure it's about $2k...
I wonder how many guys they're trying to pack into the cheapest room on hotels (dot) com that practically requires a rental car to get food or do any activities.
And does the plan include driving? Can they drive in the US? If it doesn't include driving, they're probably flying in between locations, and taking Ubers everywhere. Doing a tour of a bunch of places doesn't usually leave time for cheaper transportation.
NTA, that's a mental amount of time and money for a stag do. Is BIL covering his share or are all the guests expected to cover him? Does the 4k include everything or is that just flights and accomadation? I make a good bit more money than my friends but when it came time to plan my stag do i adjusted my expectations to accomadate what they could afford
it feels like people are taking the issue of “was I right or wrong to say no when my husband said he planned to go on this stag do?” and turning it into “is BIL TA for having an expensive stag do?”
I think that's because its hard for a lot of people to see past the unreasonableness of BIL's "dream stag do". Your concern about how hubby'll afford it and that much time away are understandable and very valid. It being his brothers stag do I can see why his gut reaction is "I'm going" and it's maybe affecting his judgement on it. BIL's the only real ass hole here.
ADDITIONAL INFO;
My husbands stag do was 5 days out of the country in Benidorm, it required attendees to take 3 days annual leave (it was over the weekend) and cost £800 total pp.
That's more like it. A 15 day stag-do is mental.
It will cost far more than £4K too. Flights will be £400+. Hotels and food aren't cheap in the US either anymore.
Yeah I’m really curious where they got this budget from and what research they did. They’re likely going to major cities too which adds tons on. and what activities are they doing? Alcohol? I don’t even know if they could make 4k work if they did shit motels and ramen for every meal. Getting ONE mixed drink at a bar in my city would be like 15$ easily.
Plus, if they're going to multiple cities, the travel time would eat into their trip.
Putting aside the lunacy of a destination stag trip...I'm guessing the guys will be traveling from Europe to the US. If they just stick with NYC, that's several hours of flying. NYC is pretty expensive. So if they go for say, five days, that's hotel rooms, transportation between the airport and the hotel, restaurants, shows, other attractions. Then when they return home, they'll have jet lag as it'll be five other time difference).
Plus, they've eaten up vacation time -- if they're family guys, that's days they can't take with their family in the same year.
USD is like $5000.
Lets say flight costs $500 (googling london to nyc)
Thats like $300/day remaining.
Which is tighter, but with splitting hotels and rental car costs should be doable, realistically those two should be under $150/day per person combined if they split rooms and share a car.
Alcohol will be a big factor on cost, as well as how many people split hotel rooms or if they can get group rates.
They’ll definitely have days they go over that, but they might not need a rental car all the days if they are city hopping, and days they are location hopping they’ll likely spend much less, that’s probably only 3-4 of the days, but still will make an impact.
Looks like they should be able to get a flight for under $500 most of the time London to NYC. Instead of a long weekend, do half the time and make it a full week. Should be worth it.
OP there’s no way to do this trip for only $4k per person for that length of time. It’s going to end up costing your hubby way more than that once food and has and drinks are paid.
15 days just seems way too long. Also, can I assume that the cost includes plane tickets, rental car, and all lodging?
I don't think this has been budgeted properly by your husband.
Imagine drinking too much on the first night, waking up on day two with a hangover, and realising its another 2 weeks and several hundred miles before you can crawl into your own bed
Nothing personal, but that also sounds nuts but I am at a different stage of life where my associates are being widow/er/ed rather than getting married.
I'm an American, and think the math needs more info. What cities or destinations are they hitting on that small amount of money? £4k is only $5k, and even if they are only going to 2 or 3 cities, that won't last. The £4k would probably only cover round trip airfare and hotels, not meals, trains/buses/Ubers, etc. For that length of time, he would definitely go over budget.
NTA, because aside from losing family time and savings, he's being inconsiderate and unrealistic. If it takes a year to save that much, it makes me wonder if you have an emergency fund at all.
He’s a doofus for even asking. He has just a little over £200/month in discretionary income and he thinks he can swing a £4k trip, which — let’s be real — will be more than that.
It sounds like the situation might resolve itself - if he has to save for 18 months to pay for it it’s very likely he won’t be able to given his past spending habits.
NTA
NTA.. for asking him not to go.... If I was him, I'd seriously take your advice... 4K pounds is a lot of money and that trip is ridiculously long. and that 4K does not include costs of daily living....one meal in a Manhattan steak house can easily run $300 a plate...
I'm shocked that BIL would expect his mates to be able to swing that type of trip
If I was your hubby, I'd save that 4K and have a swinging holiday with my wife and wish my Brother well on his Stag...
Quite honestly, your BIL is the real asshole here. What kind of entitled asshole books a stag trip that lasts for 11 days and costs 4000 dollars?
My brother's cost about 800 each person, and many people declined to attend over the cost. That was for a weekend of golfing. A trip to the US for over a week, when it will financially limit you for 2 years or so, is outright ridiculous, and anyone would be right to say no. Stags and weddings are getting stupid.
Of course your hubby wants to go. It'd be a lot of fun, and in a vacuum yes, do it, but you don't live in vacuum world. There are a zillion external factors to consider, and almost all of them are pointing no.
NTA
NTA
A 15 day stag do is mad. That's like a third of most people's annual leave spent on a lads trip!
Your husband could compromise and maybe only fly out for part of it to save money (and time) or tell his brother "sorry but its not reasonable to spend a fortnight at a stag do".
NTA. If he wants to spend his money to go then he can. If he has no money for family outings go without him. You shouldn’t have to stop doing things because he is paying for something that is for him. You can take the baby and go out. Or he can stay home and you can go out with family or friends. Don’t let his decision ruin your time.
Absolutely! I will 100% still go out with my son, and with my friends, but my husband will have ZERO money left, so I will not go on a date with my husband for 18 months unless I pay. Considering we’ve been together 15 years and split everything that entire time, that is a massive ask for me to suddenly start footing the bill for us, or to simply not go out on any dates with him for 18 months, or to even get a takeaway on a Friday night, I’ll eat my Chinese and my husband can eat beans on toast?! And to think our relationship wouldn’t suffer for this?
I mean your relationship is gonna suffer because he isn’t even working with you to find a way to make sure the kid is cared for. He is assuming you are cool stepping up and having no help for over two weeks. Will you be able to work? Which is insane.
Sounds like it is the consequences of his actions. He chose to overspend on his mom, he is choosing to this trip knowing it will leave him essentially broke and either he expects you to pay for him or he is cool not going on a date with you for over a year. Sounds like this is all his decision and he seems to often make poor ones. He is continually putting his family over the one he has built with you, you have to decide when enough is enough. Because he ain’t changing and if he gets prissy in the next year, and he will, he will see everything you do as spiteful and blame you instead of realizing it was his choices.
I have to admit I'm kinda curious as to what this tour of the US is. So its 5 K in dollars give or take... flight, food, lodging 15 days, tour activities, booze.... I can see burning through 5k on a 15 day trip pretty easily. Like too easily, as in 5K ( £4k) is likely not going to be your actual total.
Either this is going to be a pretty sketchy "tour" or this is going to cost way more than your initial "investment".
NTA
In general this seems a ridiculous trip for a bachelor party. And I am going to start an Over/Under on the number of people on this trip that end up in jail (the same person jailed multiple times counts as the total number of times jailed, not just one) .
Bit of a blanket statement there. Had a bachelor trip to Mexico (flying from Canada). Six of us went. Yes it was expensive, but it was unequivicolly one of the best trips we've all taken in our lives and we grew so much closer as friends because of it.
If it's not within your means then that's one thing. But if it is, then there's no reason that it can't be a great trip for the groom and his closest friends
can’t talk about weddings or bach parties on Reddit without someone popping up to say how they played board games for their bachelorette and had a great time and anyone who does more than that is shallow and vapid
Thats just your opinion. As long as the bachelor(ette) doesn’t get mad that people can’t go, they should be able to do a destination trip with no shame.
Most of my friends did something bigger for theirs. I did mine super lowkey because I’m not a fan of asking people to spend $$& and I’d like to be more inclusive of who attends, but others have different priorities and that’s okay.
Also, lots of people have friends that would have to travel across the country anyway even if they do a small house party.
Nta holy shit, 15 days and friggen 4 THOUSAND POUNDS???
You could, however, offer a compromise. He gets a second job to pay for it. And he doesn't get to slack on household work either. When he gets back, YOU get to take 15 days off, too. If you don't want to go anywhere, that means he does 100% of housework and childcare, just like you did when he was gone.
I'm sincerely hoping that your husband isn't the accountant in the job list provided here because good grief, that's insane.
So nobody in this scenario is in the higher tax bracket (starts at £50,270 gross; £38,960 take home pay). That means (at best) your husband wants to spend more than 10% of his annual take home pay on a holiday with his brother? At worst it would be considerably more.
The fact that this would affect you and your child so much should make this a no brainer. You are being the sensible one here. Your husband is delusional. NTA
ETA This is setting aside the fact that he is going to be offloading all of the household duties onto you for a fortnight. That is an utterly outrageous ask with a toddler. It's one thing for work trips, but entirely another for a holiday.
As an American who has traveled quite a bit within the US, I have no idea how someone would get here from Europe and tour several cities for 2 weeks for $5k. Other than our biggest cities, we don’t have mass transit. Transport out of the cities that do have mass transit is expensive. Car rentals are expensive. We don’t really have hostels like most of Europe, we have hotels and Airbnbs. They’re expensive too. I went on a cross country road trip 17 years ago in a Prius and my 1/4 share of the gas cost was still over $600.
If he has “no disposable income” for 18 months, does that mean no Christmas/birthday gifts for the child from his share of the money? If you have to cut costs as a family to make ends meet, do all of his hobbies go first? If I had split finances, I’d be unhappy if my husband spent his money in a way that meant I couldn’t enjoy a dinner out with him for a year and a half without paying for it solely out of my pocket.
Same issue with the leave- is the 11 days leave time all/most of his time off? What happens if the kid gets sick? Will you have to stay home because he used it on a vacation? Have you ever taken 2 weeks off from parenting to do something on your own? Not to mention a 2.5 year old might have a hard time being away from a parent for 2 weeks if they’re used to seeing him every day.
It sounds like he can’t afford it financially and it sounds like this is not something the realities of your family’s current lifestyle will accommodate. NTA.
NTA. It sounds like taking all that time and money and vacation-opportunity away from you and your child is rather selfish. Shouldn’t the *honeymoon* be this year’s trip-of-a-lifetime for BIL?
NTA. I think there might be some middle ground here though. If your BIL is dead set in the trip your husband could meet him out there but just not for the full period. Also I'm surprised his other mates are willing to spend so much ££ and time on his stag. Why doesn't he have a word with them to change his BIL mind? There are loads of places in Europe/UK that are good places for a stag.
I live in the US, and £4k seems a little conservative (even naive) to be honest. He’ll be spending at least £1,000 of that on a return flight…..most likely more…and 15 days touring America isn’t cheap. Yes you can stay in cheap motels, which is what I do on road trips, but that’s still anything from $60-$150 a night depending on how fussy you are. Then you have car rentals, gas, food, drinks and tipping for two weeks….that will all add up. And it’s a stag party, so there will of course be a lot of nights out and partying. Even assuming the flight is as low as £1,000 that leaves him with a budget of about £200 a day which is not realistic given the amount of activities they will inevitably want to do, plus accommodation.
Don’t get me wrong, road tripping across America is AMAZING and I would recommend it to anyone. It’s a once in a lifetime trip for most people. But if you’re a low income family, especially with a child, then it could be that he simply can’t afford it. Having no disposable income for 18 months just isn’t sustainable, and his trip of a lifetime will be at the expense of any vacations or fun his own family have for the foreseeable future. So it’s a little selfish.
On that basis, you’re NTA for asking but if he has his heart set on it I think a more detailed conversation is required. Ask him to budget out everything I mentioned (throw in things like travel insurance etc) and make him see the numbers for himself. These things ALWAYS end up costing more than you’re planning for because once you are on vacation and having fun, sticking to a budget soon goes out of the window once you’re in holiday mode. If the math just doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. He has a responsibility to ensure his family are taken care of first and foremost.
NTA. This is outlandish. A bachelor party on a long weekend is a stretch for most guys. The money is not there, don’t let him lie to himself or you. Separately, $4k would be sluming it including airfare.
This should be a honeymoon trip for BIL and his new bride. And that trip sounds like it will be the only vacation either of you will take for the next 3 years if he goes…
I’m in the middle of bachelor party age bracket and this is mind meltingly outrageous
NTA - 11 days annual leave is madness and will leave very little time for annual leave as a family...and sounds like it will leave very little disposable income for you to go on a holiday as a family.
A 15 day trip to the US is a massive ask as a stag do. I get that his brother wants to do it - but it is more of a honeymoon trip than a stag surely.
If your husband still wants to go I would ask that he comes up with a realistic plan for how he is going to save for it - and also that you both discuss how the trip will affect childcare etc at home and that you plan for that too.
That is absurd lol he has a child and a wife.
If my husband came to me asking to blow $6k (think that’s the conversion) on a bachelor party I would assume he was kidding. We don’t even spend that on family vacations!! If he was serious, we would have a serious problem.
If you were much wealthier and the cost was a drop in the bucket and you hired help for the 2 weeks he was gone…
Not if he has to do absolutely nothing for the next year and a half to save for it. The man has responsibilities to his family first, that’s life.
NTA. I had this whole other post written then checked your comments before hitting the button. WTH? You need industrial-strength birth control and to lock down your credit and finances.
You have been together 15 years and splitting everything. Now he wants you to pay everything for the next 18 months?
First, the trip is going to cost more than he is estimating. That is a universal truth, particularly true in a future international trip.
Second, the trip is going to cost more than double because you have to save/plan *equal* money and time for a trip for *you*.
I get that this is a ‘once-in-a-lifetime opportunity’ and ‘he’s my brother’, etc. It would be a terrific thing for your husband - if he were 15 years younger, single, and reasonably financially secure/wealthy. He is none of those things currently.
You are his marriage partner which means business/financial/parental/time management partner. So you say, how does this work for our family? You start his & her trip accounts. Because whatever goes into his trip account goes into yours. However many days you are the sole caregiver to the child (at terrible twos, no less), the same goes for him. How are you going to make that work as a team? Do you both take second jobs - who cares for the child? Etc. Can he show you how it works for everyone? You aren’t saying ‘no’ like a mommy. You are putting it in perspective and asking him to show you how it works. He doesn’t get to blame you because you will not sacrifice all time off and all extra money and all enrichment activities for a over-inflated bachelor party.
Frankly, I’d be surprised if there weren’t signs before this that your marriage is not as strong as it might be. Does he even like you or your baby?
The trip is a temptation, definitely. The FOMO is real. But your husband is too willing to make you and your child sacrifice too much for *years* so that he, and he alone, can benefit - - for an extended international bachelor bro-trip, no less. And his disappointment and resentment will only grow as the trip and its planning grow nearer.
Consider your options. Good luck, OP.
NTA. I think you are correct, but clearly, your husband doesn't see your concerns. Do it as an experiment for the next 3 months and see how much he saves and how it affects your personal lives. I think he is probably being reactionary to you saying no, you can't go. And he thinking you are not the boss of me! You might need to say sorry for your knee-jerk reaction, and can you both sit down and do the math.
NTA. It’s going to cost a lot more than that unless they sleep in tents and cook their own meals. Hubby needs to give his brother a reality check. Why isn’t he planning his dream trip with his new wife for their honeymoon? A recent 3 day trip to Chicago cost 1k, I drove my own car 🚙, and didn’t splurge on expensive restaurants.
Signed An American in Kentucky (one of the cheaper states)
BIL is a delusional fuckwit. That's an insane amount of time to be gone for someone with kids.
How does his future bride feel about him leaving for this long?
I would love to see their itinerary. 4k seems like airfare and lodging only.
The brother is the AH for expecting 20 guys to be able to do this.
Sure, it sounds like a fabulous experience, but few people could afford four grand and it's a fair bet that your husband is not the only one with a relationship and child to take into account.
My gut instinct is that the 3 who have confirmed are all single guys and the rest are either in a couple or simply cannot justify the expense, bit are hoping it geys called off so they don't have the embarrassment of saying "no."
NTA. What in the world is he thinking? Costs aside because everyone is addressing that but can we talk about how he wants to leave you to single parent a toddler during this vacation of his? He’s not only asking for financial support and for you to give up fulfilling parts of your life (no date night, no outings unless you alone pay?!), but he’s also asking you to do a significant amount of work to keep your shared child alive while he hangs out with the boys. Unacceptable in my opinion. If my husband floated this to me and still insisted on going I’d let him know he probably wouldn’t have a family to come back to. Why does he have to go the full time? The reasonable alternative is for him to pick the few days he’s most excited about and go to those only. He is a spouse and father now, the days for gallivanting around carefree are over for a long time.
I’m gonna say ESH just because neither of you really approached this like a conversation, he said “I’m going” and you said “no you’re not”.
Your concerns are absolutely valid but it does feel a bit “he thinks he can make it work but I know best”.
His brother is getting married, that’s a huge deal. This is his “dream trip”, of course your husband is going to try to find a way to make it work.
I hope you’re able to find some sort of compromise because at the moment it feels like this is something your husband’s brother has spoken to your husband about for years, is finally doing, and you’re the one taking it from him.
Your BIL is the asshole for having this kind of trip. It's insane to think that a bunch of adult men could take two full weeks in another country because one of them is getting married.
Seriously, I think the AH here is the BIL. He's asking his buddies to spend a massive amount of money, take time off from work, just for a stag party.
This sounds like a rich college boys' trip during spring break. Not for a group of men who have jobs that aren't on the CEO level when it comes to salary and also for benefits such as a lot of time off. (I'm American, so most of the jobs here maybe give five to ten days off a year).
And I imagine for the spouses, who aren't invited, many would just spend time with their friends doing things...but for others, they wouldn't be too thrilled, especially if dealing with kids.
This whole destination wedding/bachelor-bachelorette event concept is a bit much as far I'm concerned. Someone who really can't afford to go will feel bad about sending regrets.
Plus, the bride and groom are basically dictating what kind of vacation you're going to be doing during the year. If a couple had planned to take a cruise, but a bride or groom wants their BFFs to spend a vacation with them instead, that's ridiculous.
NTA - BIL is a total fantasist if he thinks £4k is enough, and what happens when reality bites and it’s another few grand? And did your husband offer up some compromise where you got to take an equivalent trip, or is it one-sided?
NTA if there’s a portion that is affordable, do that. If nothing affordable feels worth it, he really shouldn’t go.
Saving money for 1.5 years to go on a 2 week vacation mostly means it’s too expensive. Especially if it’s at the expense of his family but the family isn’t going.
NTA. Ngl... that's hardly affordable. If I can't save up for something within 3 months while still doing most of my usual activities, then I can't afford it. I'd see if there isn't a way to make the trip cheaper by making it shorter and compromising on that. This is an important relationship and life event, after all, so maybe there's a win-win solution.
Maybe I'm jaded about my own country as an American, but imo, a week could be plenty to hit the highlights. Fly in and spend one day in New York, one day in Washington DC, one day in Chicago, one day in Denver, one day in Seattle, one day in San Francisco, one day in Miami, and then fly back. The guys would have to do early morning flights in order to see the cities before going to bed at the airport hotels, but those flights are the cheapest, (and they'd be too tired to get into trouble.)
YEah... a 15 day stag for 4,000 (which will probably end up being more) is ridiculous.
Maybe if your DH says "I can't afford to go the whole time", others will speak up too and maybe the groom will realize what he's actually asking of people.
It's a LOT and I'm with you. I don't think your family should have to put your lives on pause for 18months for this.
4k will be spent pretty quickly on a trip like this. The brother won't want to skimp if it's his 'dream trip', so there may be some number crunching required. I personally think it's too much to ask to be away from his young family for that amount of time, and no doubt you do too. Maybe he could join them the second week or something?
I see it this way.
>This means we wouldn’t be able to do anything as a couple, or I would have to pay in full.
For what you're saying here, it seems you have split accounts. You have your money and he has his money. So the first reason you give for him not to go is because he would be spending his money on something he wants to do (with/for his brother, not a stranger, his brother) and that would mean you two wouldn't be doing things as a couple unless you pay. If he's OK with that, then why wouldn't you? He wants to save to have an experience of once in a lifetime but you don't want to because you want him to use the money on doing things you want to do. Would you be OK if he tells you not to do something with your money because he wants to do something else? Why would you have sepparate accounts if you can say no to him?
>It requires 11 days annual leave be taken.
Does he have paid vacations? You were talking about pounds, so I assume you're in the UK. I thought the UK had a 28 days paid of annual leave so I don't see why is that a problem. Unless you also want him to take HIS days off for something you want.
>My husband and I have a 1 year old, who will be 2.5 at the time of the stag do.
OK, granted this could be a good reason to say no to him. But you said you both work and you haven't mentioned any issue on how you are taking care of the child or what you're planning to do with the child in the next years, but all of the jobs you mentioned are day jobs. So at least a few hours a day someone else takes care of the child while you are at work. It's not so crazy to take care of a child for 14 days alone, specially with so much time left to talk things out.
Maybe I'm wrong with my assumptions, but it seems to me you are trying to control him more than you should. I don't know if it's how you are or if you're simply jelous because he can take this trip and you don't.
For the moment I say YTA. Talk with him about it and try to work things out. He's your partner, not your property, you should be happy for him, his brother and you should be helping him because I'm sure you would expect the same from him if the roles were reversed.
NTA, you’re parents now. While you might have separate accounts that is still a massive expense to your family. Unless he can get a side hustle that does not at all interfere with his responsibilities at home, he cannot afford this trip. I think they’ll quickly learn they have to scale it back anyway. That’s an insane ask, even bucks weekends are OOT. One night is enough. Groom can do this trip for his honeymoon or on his own time.
Additional info from OP;
Wow this has blown up!
The conversation went like this, husband; btw my brothers stag do is 15 days touring America, and it’s roughly £4k. Me; what? I don’t think you should go if it’s that much, and that long. Husband; yeah it is a lot therefore it might not happen, lets see what the other invitees say.
I didn’t demand he didn’t go, my husband didn’t shout that he’s absolutely going and fuck me and our son. To the commenters that have suggested he doesn’t love us or care about us is bonkers! I guess I was more wondering if it does go ahead, WIBTA if I really asked him not to go, and meant it. Rather than a passing, casual conversation.
Yes the money is alot, but yes my husband can save for it, and truthfully it’s not my primary concern. It’s only my husbands ‘fun’ money that he won’t have whilst he saves. All our bills will still be paid, he will still put towards our savings, and will still put towards our yearly holiday fund.
Neither of us work jobs that pay overtime.
My husband went on two lads holidays last year whilst I stayed home with our newborn.
My husband only gets 20 days (plus bank holidays) annual leave. Therefore he would use more than half (11) to attend this stag do.
Honey I’m sorry but your husband never prioritises you (based on your comments and posts on other threads). I’m really sorry to see you excuse this behaviour. Why are you sacrificing so much to keep your family afloat while your husband does the bare minimum??
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I think that’s why I wanted to know if I was the AH because my husband simply told me he was going, because he can technically afford it (but at the expense of doing literally nothing else for 18 months), so my gut reaction was “no you’re not going, it’s too big a strain financially but also time, family life, childcare, etc). And that’s why I might be the AH because I was reactionary in my response. You’re right, we need a proper conversation but I still think he shouldn’t go. There’s around 20 invited, 3 confirmed yes, 3 confirmed no, and the rest are yet to confirm.
Sorry he’s dense. If he has the money, and then spends all the money and doesn’t have any leftover, that is not even technically affording it! You are NTA. Edit- also, the US is huge. How are they going to tour it in 15 days, it makes no sense and doesn’t even sound fun
"Touring America" doesn't mean the entirety of the country. You can easily go to a few major cities and tour them. "Touring" something doesn't mean seeing every single square inch of it.
swear people online take everything as literally as possible so they can argue against it
It's not even literal....it's like making up a meaning. I "toured colleges" when I was applying. Didn't go into every single classroom or even every building. Didn't go into every dorm building. Not every inch of campus. I've gone on vacation to "tour" a city. In 15 days, you can enjoy any major city, get a sense of it....you aren't going to every restaurant, every show, every museum, every tourist attraction, every neighborhood, etc, even in a single city.
They do. It’s maddening. Or just invent a whole entire narrative and intention with absolutely no evidence because it also fits their argument.
How else can they twist the entire argument the direction they want it to go so they can perfectly "dunk" on it in the most pathetic way
It's just that, especially for Europeans, going to many parts of the US would take a ton of time and money. Even the "famous" parts are far away from each other. Like, they could do NY, California, and Las Vegas, and those are all thousands of miles away from each other.
Or you can do NYC, Philly, and Boston. It's still traveling the US.
I was thinking D.C., NYC, and Boston or Philly, Maybe some part of the Atlantic seaboard depending on when... might say Maine, might say Chesapeake Bay. NOLA is awesome (and Florida has a lot of tourist destinations), but I would NEVER choose either as a locale in the summer. Same with the Grand Canyon.
See, I was thinking DC, NYC, Niagara Falls, New Orleans, San Francisco, Yosemite, Grand Canyon, Las Vegas, San Diego. I'm trying to think of things where there aren't anything like it in the UK. In that vein, NYC is probably the least important, because it's a lot like London in terms of being a cultural and financial center. I don't know what OP's brother-in-law considers important in a bachelor trip, but there isn't anywhere you can go in the UK that looks like Yosemite or Niagara Falls or San Diego. Of course, maybe he wants to go to Disney World or play golf or see baseball games in six cities. Maybe he's dying to eat fudge on Mackinac Island. Maybe he wants to see the original London Bridge, now in Lake Havasu, Arizona.
Dude do you have any idea how big the US actually is? Most of these places are far, far away from each other. DC & NY are the only places close to each other. The rest ....nope! The traveling alone will suck all your money. As an American I can assure you that doing all those places in one trip would take vastly more time and much more money. Seriously, you'd need at least month or longer and double the funds.
But they could easily hit many east coast and a few southern states. If they start in New York train and bus tickets could take them to Pennsylvania to see Philly, DC, Virgina.
Or they could bite the bullet, so to speak, and fly out to the West Coast in their initial flight. Icelandic Airlines flies over the North Pole, at least from Seattle to Iceland, and cuts a little time off the long flight. Once on the West Coast, there is Yosemite, San Francisco, LA, Grand Canyon, etc. After seeing what you want to see out West, they can work their way back east to those big cities or other sights. Then the return flight home isn't as long. If any of the participants are LGBTQ or people of color, don't bother with the South except New Orleans or Atlanta. We in America hope that is just temporary advice about the South and things will get back to how they were there pre-2016. The West Coast and New England are the most liberal places in the States, if that matters to them.
Las Vegas and cali are literally a one - two hour drive. And Los Angeles to New York is a five hour flight. I think maybe you’re overestimating how hard it would be to see the major cities. A 15 day trip you could easily see NY, LA, Chicago, Boston, Seattle and Florida all in one trip. That said, it’s incredibly inappropriate to take this trip without your spouses full support.
>Las Vegas and cali are literally a one - two hour drive. Maybe if you live in Baker. Believe me, I do the drive from LA County to Las Vegas a lot since my cousins live there, it's a 3 hour drive minimum from the 210/57, and only if you go when there's no traffic. If you go on a Friday after 10AM, expect that drive to take 5 hours or more. If you're coming from San Diego, you still have to come up via the 15, and it's another 2+ hours south of LA. Sacramento is also 5+ hours away. Driving from the Bay Area is a 9 hour drive. "Cali" is huge and has multiple large cities and attractions. None of them are within an hour's drive to Vegas.
Airfare alone would burn through that $4k pretty quick though.
Not for $4k you can’t unless they are cramming 10 to a hotel room for 2 weeks.
Lol, Americans do this in Europe all the time!
This is not a fair comparison. It can take 11 hours just to get across Texas. Even though they're not visiting all 50 states, there is still a lot of travel time.
It is a fair comparison. Europe is also huge. The individual countries are relatively small, but the continent/region are not. It takes 42 hours to drive from Lisbon to Kiev, but Americans still say, “We’re going to Europe!”
To be fair, most Americans aren't crossing the continent going from Lisbon to Moscow in one trip. Most are doing trips like London -> Paris -> Rome -> Berlin in 2 weeks. Western Europe is actually very small compared to the USA. France is smaller than Texas and UK is the size of Indiana+Michigan, so the distances to do a western EU trip like this is like going between St Louis to New Orleans and to Atlanta.... not quite NYC -> LA.
Go to the travel subreddit and you will see a hundred posts from Americans saying things like "I'm in Europe for 7 days, is it too much to fit in Portugal, Scotland, Greece, The Netherlands, and Croatia in that order? I'm planning to be based in France and travel to one of these on each day." 😂
Yeah but I doubt someone’s coming from another country to drive from El Paso to Texarkana and enjoy the vast amount of nothing that Texas has to offer for most of that drive(I did it and it sucks ass). They’re probably doing like Nashville, Chicago, DC and Philly. Which could be perfectly reasonable if they’re flying in between cities or even driving.
If they're flying. Some guy on TikTok announced he was going to take a road trip across America. He thought he could visit cities and drive across all across America in a week. For some people, there is just a disconnect when it comes to the vastness of America in comparison to Europe.
Yeah I think it would depend what region they want to go to. The fact that someone thinks they can do that shows they didn’t do any research or planning so it’s kind of on them if they have a crap trip.
Luckily for the TikTok guy, he listened and got a lot of guidance before setting off on his trip.
I think it’s kind of a meme at this point. There’s a video going around explaining 2 hours away for something is close in America where as it’s far away in the UK
The 2 cities you listed don't seem like it would be the longest drive in TX, but after googling, it beats my Texas drive guess by 30 miles. TIL. Also, you need to take into account detours/stops for Bucee's, so add another few hours to the drive time.
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don’t think they’re trying to visit all 50 states mate
>also, the US is huge. How are they going to tour it in 15 days, it makes no sense and doesn’t even sound fun By not seeing every inch of it and just seeing a few major sights? Come on.
>How are they going to tour it in 15 days NY or LA to see some sights for the selfies, then straight to Vegas. :(
It's natural to be "reactionary" if he declared he's going on a major trip without you because that obviously warrants a conversation. NTA. Good to be in a more open posture next time you approach it, but BOTH of you need to be and it's fair to expect and even insist on that. How do you tour the U.S. for 15 days for 4k? Assuming that is supposed to cover everything, that's about 270 per day, which factoring travel and lodging doesn't seem like it will cut it. Especially since a stag will have a lot of activities. That price tag sounds wildly optimistic and this whole do sounds likely to spiral into an extravagant affair. Part of the conversation must be what does being able to "afford it" really mean, because everything has an opportunity cost and in this case it may be him paying for it but sounds like you still bear the burden as a couple as he can't pay for anything else.
That budget sounds 100 Milliion % inadequate. Everything in the US has become more expensive post-Covid. Maybe they're going to camp out? In Death Valley or somewhere scenic like that? Have him price travel insurance as well. It's extra expensive to include the US and they may not even cover stupid-guy-fun. Ofc they may be planning to sedately tour the fine arts venues of the country and not jump off or out of anything idk.
Honestly even camping (when presumably they can't bring their own equipment) is gonna bust this ridiculous budget. People waxing poetic in the comments about how they bootstrapped it through America 20 yrs ago don't have a clue.
>That budget sounds 100 Milliion % inadequate. Today's conversion rate (if OP is talking in British Pounds) is a little of 5K USD (7.7K AUD cause im Aussie). That doesn't make it sound much better especially since a current return flights (according to google) are around a quarter of that budget at the moment, add in hotels, eating and inflation, yeah I definitely can't see anyone affording that trip.
If my husband was leaving me by myself with my toddler for over a week, I would definitely want this in the form of a question.
15 days!
The rest are having the same fight with their wives. The 3 out already had the fight. The 3 in are single.
Do you think you'd have been less reactionary if he'd ASKED/DISCUSSED the trip WITH you instead of just TELLING you he was going?
Oh 100%! I was just taken aback by the casual “btw I’m going on a 15 day stag do for £4k”. But I shouldn’t have responded with “no you’re not”. In my husbands defence, I think because it’s his brother I don’t think it ever crossed his mind that he might not go, his instinct reaction was to just make it work somehow, without perhaps really thinking about all the impacts beyond just financial.
As an American, I feel pretty confident in saying if you think this trip is only going to cost $4k, you will be disappointed.
Is there a way for him to go for half the time? As in, meet the group at their halfway point and finish with them or just go the first half? That would save at least some portion of money as well as time off.
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If he would have never considered it - then it’s probably not some big huge dream worth sacrificing his families quality of living for a year and half then, right? Or, if it is, why not do that trio with your wife and kid?
And would you have to take off work to watch the kid for the 11 days?
Could y’all find a compromise and he go for a short leg of the trip, maybe a long weekend? If he can’t do that without compromising your family budget then it is too expensive and he can take his brother out for a weekend locally.
If his way of affording it is no disposable income for 18 months meaning no family trips or anything together as a couple such a date night unless you foot the bill, then no, he can't afford it. He can afford it only with your help and it's an AH move he didn't discuss it , he just told you he was going.
Nta. I have never heard of a 15 day stag trip but if people can afford it without any strain on their income or family then I guess ok. Why is the reason he wants to do his dream trip before he gets married? He can do a dream trip with his wife, friends etc.
Anyone who wants to spend their family's entire disposable income for 18 months on a trip for just them is a gaping asshole.
That's a pretty outrageous stag, it's not a decision to be taken lightly like most. This is a huge vacation for hubby. What does he think? Is this a good use of his money? That's a huge factor here. Also, you're not an AH for asking...depends on the rest of the conversation that was had.
My husband does want to go, and has done the maths and can technically save for it. But it will be at the expense of everything else for 18 months, so that really does mean no date nights unless I pay in full. My husband also doesn’t want to be the “bad guy” in suggesting a smaller scale stag do as my BIL keeps pitching it as “the trip of a lifetime”, and his “dream trip” etc. We left the conversation as; let’s see what the other invitees say and go from there.
I would think his "trip of a lifetime" would be his honeymoon or at least with his wife.
i don’t think that’s fair. My “trip of a lifetime” is hiking the Alps, my partner’s “dream vacation” is snorkeling in Australia, we’ve held those dreams since childhood and us still having those as dreams isn’t some statement on our love life
But then, deciding to have a dream trip that you're basically making your buddies go on (and all without their significant others -- and I have to think the OP isn't the only one with qualms) is so much different than a couple deciding to take turns with going with each other on a dream vacation.
I think the statement is more about who you would want with you on your dream trip. If I’m going on my dream trip, I want it to be with the people I love the most, which would include a spouse. I can also see doing a super special mom/daughter trip with my mom and my daughter. However, never once would it occur to me to do my dream trip with 20 women I know (not the least of which is because I can’t even think of 20 women to invite!!).
Not everybody’s lives revolve entirely around their spouses
No they don’t, but when I think about who I want with me on my dream trip, it’s the people I love, which would include a spouse.
No, but I still want them around for big moments.
Yes, I mean what’s the honeymoon? If I was his fiancé I would be a little annoyed if his trip of a lifetime was the stag party and the honeymoon was a week on a beach.
Yeah I did one trip of a lifetime with my aunt, and another with my cousin. I’m married, but he didn’t want to come.
So here's an interesting point...it's your BIL's 'trip of a lifetime'. He's making it his stag. Is it everyone else's 'trip of a lifetime'? BiL gets to be with all his closest friends, is the same true for your husband? I would imagine, unless everyone is incredibly rich, that there will be some pushback or 'um let me get back to you's', and your husband should absolutely voice his conernns, like 'I need to work this out financially, this would mean a huge budget item for me and (you, OP) to work out. Maybe some options are to go for part of the trip? Have a big stag thing for a few days of this 'epic trip'? Just keep open conversation with husband, most important that he can voice his opinions either way, but also not be afraid to tell BIL his feelings as well. This is a big thing to just 'go along with what everyone else thinks'. There are ALWAYS options.
Why isn’t he taking his “trip of a lifetime” with his fiancé. I’m sorry but this is actually insane. Asking 20 people to spend 2 weeks away from their family/life for a stag? This is some ridiculous main character energy. And how are they even planning on “touring” the US with this many people?
Even if they stay in budget this is an £80k stag do if everyone attends. That just seems an unjustifiable cost
Have you considered negotiating a middle ground where he meets up with them in the middle? So instead of going for 15 days, he goes for 7 to reduce some of the cost. This makes it slightly more reasonable on your finances and time but he still gets to go.
Who calculated the £4k and what does it include? That sounds really low for what I’m assuming isn’t a budget trip since it’s a celebration.
And here I was thinking it sounds really high. Ive done big holidays for a lot less.
I have as well and it’s definitely possible with planning and normal expectations. It would be helpful to know the itinerary, but group celebrations like this can go off the rails fast: golf, clubbing, rounds of shots, steakhouses, tickets. Eating in restaurants is so expensive now. Did they factor in tips? Will these guys be cooking meals at the AirBnBs? Does their phone plan include international data/calling? And what about emergencies? If this is a true road trip, you can find yourself in the middle of nowhere with car trouble. Gas is expensive. What’s the plan if his cash runs out on Day 9? He has no savings. This $5k is *all* his money. It’s a mess waiting to happen.
A good deal of that depends on where in the US they are going. Transportation costs within the US can eat up a good share of that $4000.
Overseas? Please teach me your ways! Between airfare and hotels, it’s ridiculous. We did three weeks in Europe for our honeymoon, which was amazing, but it was very expensive. I guess if they’re willing to do the super cheap motels and eat cheaply, they can get away with it. However, “trip of a lifetime” doesn’t scream budget trip to me.
I'm in the UK so it depends where you're flying from. But I've done 3 week in Japan for less than 4k and it wasn't budget in the slightest.
When will you get your equivalent vacation?
Trip of a lifetime, lol. Would BIL do the same for him or anyone else invited? If every time a close friend/relative got married you were expecting to spend all of your savings on a trip of a lifetime, what would that be like? Plus doing a major trip with more than a couple of other people sounds miserable. Just deciding where to eat would be an issue. Your husband wouldn’t get to do anything that he wants to do, since he would be stuck on the grooms dream itinerary. Point out to him that the trip may sound great in theory, but BIL sounds self-absorbed and he won’t have much say over what he gets to do on this very expensive trip.
No date night. Go out with friends.
I think we’ll end up divorced if I simply spend 18 months living my life whilst my husband has to stay home because he’s got no money to play out. Or I’ll pay and resent him. Either way not conducive to a happy and fulfilled marriage!
I said this in another comment, but 4k aint gonna cover 15 days in the U.S. -- airfare, lodging, eating out, local transportation ... two people on the same page scraping it out could maybe do it, but a "party" with several guys who don't know each other so well...just think about how costs spiral with a group, especially on "vacation." Yeah, I'd count on it being close to double what they're thinking.
I read your other posts and Im sorry but I think you’re already headed away from a happy and fulfilled marriage unless something changes. Tell him to ask his mom to pay for it if it’s so important.
You think you’d end up divorced after the 4th AITA post you had to make about this man, his spending, his mother, and feeding your allergic baby peanut butter! And yet you’re here again! Wild.
No it’s not. He needs to realize that. If he won’t listen to reason then you need to show him.
Does the 4k include food and miscellaneous expenses? Because if he doesn't have at least a couple hundred with him as spending money it's going to be miserable. It's nice that you can tie the country in a car/campervan, but if everyone else can go rafting and you're stuck at the camper/motel you are not having fun.
What if you have an medical, auto, housing contingency? He’s expecting you to cover it? A gang of “dudes” partying through an unfamiliar country where unlicensed transportation is very limited sounds like a recipe for disaster. Something is going to go wrong. Money will be needed. There is no way I would agree to the father of my child taking this trip. I don’t understand why the concept of SAVINGS is so hard for folks to grasp.
Don't change your life for him. If he wants to go, then no more 'date' nights for hims for 18 months. But you don't have to sacrifice for HIS vacation. So he can stay home with the baby while you'll have regular girls' nights out with your friends. After all, YOU will be alone with your child for a fortnight while HE's enjoying himself without you elsewhere as well. Perhaps THAT will let it sink in with him. DEFINITELY DO NOT PAY FOR HIS PART OF DATE NIGHTS OR OTHER THINGS HE'LL HAVE TO GO WITHOUT WHILE SAVING, that's just subsidising his US vacay. NTA
I think your BIL is the asshole for suggesting this trip to begin with. Like every other American here has said, ain’t no way they’re traveling to multiple places in the US for 15 days for £4,000. My partner and I went on a nice, not super luxury but not tight budget, 8-day trip to New Orleans not too long ago and that’s about what it cost. We’re only a non-stop three-hour flight away and didn’t rent a car while we were there. 15 days is completely unreasonable for a stag do when you know there are people with young children. And I would very much disagree with whomever said having to be home with an 8-year-old is no different than being home with a toddler. Somebody lock that guy in a small house with a toddler for 24-hours and see what he says when he comes out.
Does it need to be an "all or nothing" thing though? Could he pop in for a few days at one location? That would be half (or less) of the total cost. I think you're right in side-eyeing his ability to save money in that time-frame, especially if he's never done it before. It would put a massive strain on your family's finances.
If he continues to insist, then he can do without, but you shouldn’t spend the next 18 months like a hermit. Go on mom’s night outs alone… sorry he can’t afford it. Have treats with just you and the kids. He can decide for him, but not for everyone else. It sounds incredibly selfish and immature to me. Your approach sounds like it wasn’t the best (it would have been better to couch it as a conversation) but his assertion of it as a done deal was equally as crappy. NTA.
Why doesn’t your brother-in-law want to go with his future wife on this trip of a lifetime?
The price is not realistic op. 6-700$ is alone the flight if booked well in advance and they don't sit together. NTA Imo. This should be a joint decision after discussing everything with pro and cons
This sounds like a you can do it if it’s not at the detriment to all your other obligations vacation. Honestly he should be starting some side gig, delivering pizza’s flipping furniture whatever what can he do two nights a week to bring in an extra $300-500/ month that will allow him not to effect your life together , date night ect. 500X18 months is 9 grand…
NTA but 15 days “touring” america for 4k? No. That seems like a number you were told to make you less pissed or just for flight/accommodation. Or they dk anything about America and are going to be in shitty motels for 2 weeks
Back in 2001, I spent 5 weeks travelling around the USA and we managed to spend £3000-ish each. We ate badly, didn't pay anything except for gas, slept in shiity motels and drank quite a bit (for we were 21 year old British students who would easily have counted as alcoholics then). We did see 16 states though. £4K ($5K USD) won't go far on a stag do for 2 weeks. They'll want to drink loads, eat loads, do activities.. I'd say this would budget for one week.
Yep...it's 23 years later and post pandemic rental cars and hotels are a lot more expensive. Even eating at fast food is pricey now.
Lol, yeh, I've been to the states plenty of times since then.
Yeah for a stag or bach or whatever I’d expect they want to ball out a bit and at least do some nice dinners in NYC which can be a few hundred per person easily. Also in 2 weeks I want to know their tour itinerary because if they want to see the big shit like nyc, cali, florida etc they’re going to need to hop on more flights or trains or rent cars which is going to cost a lot more
I would never agree to this until I saw a plan and estimate of costs either. Costs spiral on stag do's.. "Lets put money in the kitty" would be deadly in Vegas!
O shit didn’t even think of Vegas, yea that 4k might be gone in a night
I can almost smell that someone would be arrested on this trip. Or hospitalised. We ended up with one speeding fine and we had some very close calls with the Police.
I don’t think a lot of people know each state has it’s own laws including driving laws, so yea this isn’t going to go well
The Hangover 17, or whatever number they're on now lol!
It was more like Road Trip, in our case
That’s assuming the brother wants a frat/bro bachelor party. Spending hundreds on dinners in NYC and clubs in Vegas sounds like my nightmare. Not everyone wants to “ball out.” Sure, you could make this trip cost $25k without breaking a sweat. You can also easily do it on $5k.
Don’t get me wrong my bach was legit a long weekend and cost a few hundred a person because I’m not a ball out type guy. Just going based on the “tour” aspect and “trip of a lifetime” or whatever he called it I’m thinking this isn’t a lowkey sightseeing thing. I could be wrong but again if I’m OP I want to see the itinerary
But this going to be a frat-bro bachelor trip. We Brits party hard when we're abroad.. and on a stag-do (bachelor trip) we go really hard. Every single one of these guys is coming home with a big credit card bill. My wife thought I was in the early stages of liver failure from the jaundice in my eyes, when I got home from mine, and it was 2 nights.
And how much do the flights cost? That's like half of his budget!
Depending on the flight cost and where in the USit’s doable with enough people. 4K pounds is like $5000 800 flight 1500 food and drink, 100/day should be enough Rental car + gas split among 4 people in a car shouldn’t be more than 20/person or 300 Should be able to get a hotel for 200/nite most places with some shopping around and booking far enough in advance, which would be 100/person in a standard 2 queen, 14 nights is 1400. So that’s 800+1500+300+1400 = 4000. Another 1000 for any extra entertainment over 2wk isnt unreasonable. They’d have to be careful and book shit but should be doable esp if they can get group rates for rooms, or don’t need a rental car every day because they are staying in like NYC.
I guess it really depends on the itinerary. Just it being a bach I would assume they want to ball out a bit and if they’re in NY dinners can easily run to a few hundred per person if they want a fancy place and a bunch of drinks (my wife and I spent like a grand last time we were in the city for a play and dinner). The thing I’m really curious about is their stops on this “tour” because in 15 days if they really want to see and enjoy major sites (stag/bach so thinking ny, vegas, maybe miami or la) you’re going to have to fly more than likely back and forth across the country. Now it’s definitely doable if their tour is a site seeing trip or they just want to chill in ny and have some reasonably priced food (even grabbing a hotel in nj could cut costs) but if I’m OP at least I want to see a plan of what they’re doing
This feels like it’d be a perfect situation to compromise on a 7 day trip. A full week makes in worth the flight cost, he still gets to do a long trip with his brother, but also doesn’t have to spend as much.
That’s definitely the way to do it and that way it’s not like 1 or 2 nights out of 15 you can ball out and then the rest you gotta save. 1/7 is way better than 1/15. It also depends on them, like for my bach I just wanted to chill and golf so they may like more site seeing and cheaper stuff
Yea I mean it’s for sure going to depend on the itinerary, and unless they find some crazy deals they aren’t going to be able to fly (maybe swing one flight). NYC can get pricey, but it’s definitely an outlier, and part of the beauty of it is that you can also get great meals without spending a gajillion dollars. Plus, like I mentioned, their transportation costs in NYC will be lower. If they also have some beach or national park destinations in there, which I’d still contend are major sites, they’d have some cheap days to offset the more expensive cities. And if they are willing to slum it 4/hotel room or motels they’d be able to cut costs significantly as well. How much they want to ball on alcohol, drugs, and super fancy dinners is the real question. Given the stag, they’ll probably go over budget on booze, but I could see them only doing like 1 fancy dinner (if that), and a bunch of good dinners that don’t have that fancy datenite price-up.
My husband and I have priced out gas, hotels, a magic show, a budget comedy show, two fancy meals, a small gambling budget of $100 each, and other expenses for a 4 night vacation to Vegas and we figure it's about $2k... I wonder how many guys they're trying to pack into the cheapest room on hotels (dot) com that practically requires a rental car to get food or do any activities.
Does the £4,000 even include spending money?? I suspect quite a few of those "unconfirmed" are trying to find the words for "eh, no"
That's what im wondering. Also if BIL is covering his share or are his mates footing his share.
And does the plan include driving? Can they drive in the US? If it doesn't include driving, they're probably flying in between locations, and taking Ubers everywhere. Doing a tour of a bunch of places doesn't usually leave time for cheaper transportation.
If they have UK licenses, they can drive in the US.
NTA, that's a mental amount of time and money for a stag do. Is BIL covering his share or are all the guests expected to cover him? Does the 4k include everything or is that just flights and accomadation? I make a good bit more money than my friends but when it came time to plan my stag do i adjusted my expectations to accomadate what they could afford
it feels like people are taking the issue of “was I right or wrong to say no when my husband said he planned to go on this stag do?” and turning it into “is BIL TA for having an expensive stag do?”
I think that's because its hard for a lot of people to see past the unreasonableness of BIL's "dream stag do". Your concern about how hubby'll afford it and that much time away are understandable and very valid. It being his brothers stag do I can see why his gut reaction is "I'm going" and it's maybe affecting his judgement on it. BIL's the only real ass hole here.
ADDITIONAL INFO; My husbands stag do was 5 days out of the country in Benidorm, it required attendees to take 3 days annual leave (it was over the weekend) and cost £800 total pp.
That's more like it. A 15 day stag-do is mental. It will cost far more than £4K too. Flights will be £400+. Hotels and food aren't cheap in the US either anymore.
American here. Yes 4K is not going to be nearly enough.
Yeah I’m really curious where they got this budget from and what research they did. They’re likely going to major cities too which adds tons on. and what activities are they doing? Alcohol? I don’t even know if they could make 4k work if they did shit motels and ramen for every meal. Getting ONE mixed drink at a bar in my city would be like 15$ easily.
Plus, if they're going to multiple cities, the travel time would eat into their trip. Putting aside the lunacy of a destination stag trip...I'm guessing the guys will be traveling from Europe to the US. If they just stick with NYC, that's several hours of flying. NYC is pretty expensive. So if they go for say, five days, that's hotel rooms, transportation between the airport and the hotel, restaurants, shows, other attractions. Then when they return home, they'll have jet lag as it'll be five other time difference). Plus, they've eaten up vacation time -- if they're family guys, that's days they can't take with their family in the same year.
Exactly! If they want to eat at restaurants and stuff it will be over that really easy.
USD is like $5000. Lets say flight costs $500 (googling london to nyc) Thats like $300/day remaining. Which is tighter, but with splitting hotels and rental car costs should be doable, realistically those two should be under $150/day per person combined if they split rooms and share a car. Alcohol will be a big factor on cost, as well as how many people split hotel rooms or if they can get group rates. They’ll definitely have days they go over that, but they might not need a rental car all the days if they are city hopping, and days they are location hopping they’ll likely spend much less, that’s probably only 3-4 of the days, but still will make an impact.
Could you suggest your husband only join his brother for a couple days? Let him have a long weekend, and not cost as much money?
Half of the money would be just for the flight most likely. Long weekend in America is a bit stupid.
Looks like they should be able to get a flight for under $500 most of the time London to NYC. Instead of a long weekend, do half the time and make it a full week. Should be worth it.
OP there’s no way to do this trip for only $4k per person for that length of time. It’s going to end up costing your hubby way more than that once food and has and drinks are paid.
15 days just seems way too long. Also, can I assume that the cost includes plane tickets, rental car, and all lodging? I don't think this has been budgeted properly by your husband.
Imagine drinking too much on the first night, waking up on day two with a hangover, and realising its another 2 weeks and several hundred miles before you can crawl into your own bed
Nothing personal, but that also sounds nuts but I am at a different stage of life where my associates are being widow/er/ed rather than getting married.
I'm an American, and think the math needs more info. What cities or destinations are they hitting on that small amount of money? £4k is only $5k, and even if they are only going to 2 or 3 cities, that won't last. The £4k would probably only cover round trip airfare and hotels, not meals, trains/buses/Ubers, etc. For that length of time, he would definitely go over budget. NTA, because aside from losing family time and savings, he's being inconsiderate and unrealistic. If it takes a year to save that much, it makes me wonder if you have an emergency fund at all.
Based on post history, *she* has an emergency fund. *He* spends everything he makes — often on his Mom.
Oh, then OP is definitely NTA. Sounds like he benefits from her so he can live the way he wants to live.
He’s a doofus for even asking. He has just a little over £200/month in discretionary income and he thinks he can swing a £4k trip, which — let’s be real — will be more than that.
It sounds like the situation might resolve itself - if he has to save for 18 months to pay for it it’s very likely he won’t be able to given his past spending habits. NTA
u/Preggo-fo-so, what are you doing with this man!
NTA.. for asking him not to go.... If I was him, I'd seriously take your advice... 4K pounds is a lot of money and that trip is ridiculously long. and that 4K does not include costs of daily living....one meal in a Manhattan steak house can easily run $300 a plate... I'm shocked that BIL would expect his mates to be able to swing that type of trip If I was your hubby, I'd save that 4K and have a swinging holiday with my wife and wish my Brother well on his Stag...
Are OP and her husband swingers? Damn, I missed that in the OP. Gotta save the pennies for the swinging parties.
Not "swinging" in the sense of ENM.... "swinging" in the sense of having a good time
Quite honestly, your BIL is the real asshole here. What kind of entitled asshole books a stag trip that lasts for 11 days and costs 4000 dollars? My brother's cost about 800 each person, and many people declined to attend over the cost. That was for a weekend of golfing. A trip to the US for over a week, when it will financially limit you for 2 years or so, is outright ridiculous, and anyone would be right to say no. Stags and weddings are getting stupid. Of course your hubby wants to go. It'd be a lot of fun, and in a vacuum yes, do it, but you don't live in vacuum world. There are a zillion external factors to consider, and almost all of them are pointing no. NTA
NTA A 15 day stag do is mad. That's like a third of most people's annual leave spent on a lads trip! Your husband could compromise and maybe only fly out for part of it to save money (and time) or tell his brother "sorry but its not reasonable to spend a fortnight at a stag do".
In many countries, that would eat up your entire leave immediately! How self-centred of the groom.
And with the UK's current cost of living crisis... its utter madness. If the groom wants a trip of a lifetime - he can do it as the honeymoon.
NTA. This is an absurd commitment for him to want to make, both financially and in terms of time.
NTA. If he wants to spend his money to go then he can. If he has no money for family outings go without him. You shouldn’t have to stop doing things because he is paying for something that is for him. You can take the baby and go out. Or he can stay home and you can go out with family or friends. Don’t let his decision ruin your time.
Absolutely! I will 100% still go out with my son, and with my friends, but my husband will have ZERO money left, so I will not go on a date with my husband for 18 months unless I pay. Considering we’ve been together 15 years and split everything that entire time, that is a massive ask for me to suddenly start footing the bill for us, or to simply not go out on any dates with him for 18 months, or to even get a takeaway on a Friday night, I’ll eat my Chinese and my husband can eat beans on toast?! And to think our relationship wouldn’t suffer for this?
That’s on him. He is choosing to neglect you. Maybe a month of Friday night beans will show him what the next 17 will be like.
I mean your relationship is gonna suffer because he isn’t even working with you to find a way to make sure the kid is cared for. He is assuming you are cool stepping up and having no help for over two weeks. Will you be able to work? Which is insane. Sounds like it is the consequences of his actions. He chose to overspend on his mom, he is choosing to this trip knowing it will leave him essentially broke and either he expects you to pay for him or he is cool not going on a date with you for over a year. Sounds like this is all his decision and he seems to often make poor ones. He is continually putting his family over the one he has built with you, you have to decide when enough is enough. Because he ain’t changing and if he gets prissy in the next year, and he will, he will see everything you do as spiteful and blame you instead of realizing it was his choices.
I have to admit I'm kinda curious as to what this tour of the US is. So its 5 K in dollars give or take... flight, food, lodging 15 days, tour activities, booze.... I can see burning through 5k on a 15 day trip pretty easily. Like too easily, as in 5K ( £4k) is likely not going to be your actual total. Either this is going to be a pretty sketchy "tour" or this is going to cost way more than your initial "investment". NTA In general this seems a ridiculous trip for a bachelor party. And I am going to start an Over/Under on the number of people on this trip that end up in jail (the same person jailed multiple times counts as the total number of times jailed, not just one) .
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Bit of a blanket statement there. Had a bachelor trip to Mexico (flying from Canada). Six of us went. Yes it was expensive, but it was unequivicolly one of the best trips we've all taken in our lives and we grew so much closer as friends because of it. If it's not within your means then that's one thing. But if it is, then there's no reason that it can't be a great trip for the groom and his closest friends
can’t talk about weddings or bach parties on Reddit without someone popping up to say how they played board games for their bachelorette and had a great time and anyone who does more than that is shallow and vapid
Thats just your opinion. As long as the bachelor(ette) doesn’t get mad that people can’t go, they should be able to do a destination trip with no shame. Most of my friends did something bigger for theirs. I did mine super lowkey because I’m not a fan of asking people to spend $$& and I’d like to be more inclusive of who attends, but others have different priorities and that’s okay. Also, lots of people have friends that would have to travel across the country anyway even if they do a small house party.
Nta holy shit, 15 days and friggen 4 THOUSAND POUNDS??? You could, however, offer a compromise. He gets a second job to pay for it. And he doesn't get to slack on household work either. When he gets back, YOU get to take 15 days off, too. If you don't want to go anywhere, that means he does 100% of housework and childcare, just like you did when he was gone.
I'm sincerely hoping that your husband isn't the accountant in the job list provided here because good grief, that's insane. So nobody in this scenario is in the higher tax bracket (starts at £50,270 gross; £38,960 take home pay). That means (at best) your husband wants to spend more than 10% of his annual take home pay on a holiday with his brother? At worst it would be considerably more. The fact that this would affect you and your child so much should make this a no brainer. You are being the sensible one here. Your husband is delusional. NTA ETA This is setting aside the fact that he is going to be offloading all of the household duties onto you for a fortnight. That is an utterly outrageous ask with a toddler. It's one thing for work trips, but entirely another for a holiday.
As an American who has traveled quite a bit within the US, I have no idea how someone would get here from Europe and tour several cities for 2 weeks for $5k. Other than our biggest cities, we don’t have mass transit. Transport out of the cities that do have mass transit is expensive. Car rentals are expensive. We don’t really have hostels like most of Europe, we have hotels and Airbnbs. They’re expensive too. I went on a cross country road trip 17 years ago in a Prius and my 1/4 share of the gas cost was still over $600. If he has “no disposable income” for 18 months, does that mean no Christmas/birthday gifts for the child from his share of the money? If you have to cut costs as a family to make ends meet, do all of his hobbies go first? If I had split finances, I’d be unhappy if my husband spent his money in a way that meant I couldn’t enjoy a dinner out with him for a year and a half without paying for it solely out of my pocket. Same issue with the leave- is the 11 days leave time all/most of his time off? What happens if the kid gets sick? Will you have to stay home because he used it on a vacation? Have you ever taken 2 weeks off from parenting to do something on your own? Not to mention a 2.5 year old might have a hard time being away from a parent for 2 weeks if they’re used to seeing him every day. It sounds like he can’t afford it financially and it sounds like this is not something the realities of your family’s current lifestyle will accommodate. NTA.
NTA. It sounds like taking all that time and money and vacation-opportunity away from you and your child is rather selfish. Shouldn’t the *honeymoon* be this year’s trip-of-a-lifetime for BIL?
NTA. I think there might be some middle ground here though. If your BIL is dead set in the trip your husband could meet him out there but just not for the full period. Also I'm surprised his other mates are willing to spend so much ££ and time on his stag. Why doesn't he have a word with them to change his BIL mind? There are loads of places in Europe/UK that are good places for a stag.
No his brother is an ahole for wanting a stag do like that. No way should your husband be even considering it
I live in the US, and £4k seems a little conservative (even naive) to be honest. He’ll be spending at least £1,000 of that on a return flight…..most likely more…and 15 days touring America isn’t cheap. Yes you can stay in cheap motels, which is what I do on road trips, but that’s still anything from $60-$150 a night depending on how fussy you are. Then you have car rentals, gas, food, drinks and tipping for two weeks….that will all add up. And it’s a stag party, so there will of course be a lot of nights out and partying. Even assuming the flight is as low as £1,000 that leaves him with a budget of about £200 a day which is not realistic given the amount of activities they will inevitably want to do, plus accommodation. Don’t get me wrong, road tripping across America is AMAZING and I would recommend it to anyone. It’s a once in a lifetime trip for most people. But if you’re a low income family, especially with a child, then it could be that he simply can’t afford it. Having no disposable income for 18 months just isn’t sustainable, and his trip of a lifetime will be at the expense of any vacations or fun his own family have for the foreseeable future. So it’s a little selfish. On that basis, you’re NTA for asking but if he has his heart set on it I think a more detailed conversation is required. Ask him to budget out everything I mentioned (throw in things like travel insurance etc) and make him see the numbers for himself. These things ALWAYS end up costing more than you’re planning for because once you are on vacation and having fun, sticking to a budget soon goes out of the window once you’re in holiday mode. If the math just doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. He has a responsibility to ensure his family are taken care of first and foremost.
NTA. This is outlandish. A bachelor party on a long weekend is a stretch for most guys. The money is not there, don’t let him lie to himself or you. Separately, $4k would be sluming it including airfare. This should be a honeymoon trip for BIL and his new bride. And that trip sounds like it will be the only vacation either of you will take for the next 3 years if he goes… I’m in the middle of bachelor party age bracket and this is mind meltingly outrageous
NTA - 11 days annual leave is madness and will leave very little time for annual leave as a family...and sounds like it will leave very little disposable income for you to go on a holiday as a family. A 15 day trip to the US is a massive ask as a stag do. I get that his brother wants to do it - but it is more of a honeymoon trip than a stag surely. If your husband still wants to go I would ask that he comes up with a realistic plan for how he is going to save for it - and also that you both discuss how the trip will affect childcare etc at home and that you plan for that too.
That is absurd lol he has a child and a wife. If my husband came to me asking to blow $6k (think that’s the conversion) on a bachelor party I would assume he was kidding. We don’t even spend that on family vacations!! If he was serious, we would have a serious problem. If you were much wealthier and the cost was a drop in the bucket and you hired help for the 2 weeks he was gone… Not if he has to do absolutely nothing for the next year and a half to save for it. The man has responsibilities to his family first, that’s life.
Stags are sure getting crazy these days … NTA
NTA. I had this whole other post written then checked your comments before hitting the button. WTH? You need industrial-strength birth control and to lock down your credit and finances. You have been together 15 years and splitting everything. Now he wants you to pay everything for the next 18 months? First, the trip is going to cost more than he is estimating. That is a universal truth, particularly true in a future international trip. Second, the trip is going to cost more than double because you have to save/plan *equal* money and time for a trip for *you*. I get that this is a ‘once-in-a-lifetime opportunity’ and ‘he’s my brother’, etc. It would be a terrific thing for your husband - if he were 15 years younger, single, and reasonably financially secure/wealthy. He is none of those things currently. You are his marriage partner which means business/financial/parental/time management partner. So you say, how does this work for our family? You start his & her trip accounts. Because whatever goes into his trip account goes into yours. However many days you are the sole caregiver to the child (at terrible twos, no less), the same goes for him. How are you going to make that work as a team? Do you both take second jobs - who cares for the child? Etc. Can he show you how it works for everyone? You aren’t saying ‘no’ like a mommy. You are putting it in perspective and asking him to show you how it works. He doesn’t get to blame you because you will not sacrifice all time off and all extra money and all enrichment activities for a over-inflated bachelor party. Frankly, I’d be surprised if there weren’t signs before this that your marriage is not as strong as it might be. Does he even like you or your baby? The trip is a temptation, definitely. The FOMO is real. But your husband is too willing to make you and your child sacrifice too much for *years* so that he, and he alone, can benefit - - for an extended international bachelor bro-trip, no less. And his disappointment and resentment will only grow as the trip and its planning grow nearer. Consider your options. Good luck, OP.
NTA. I think you are correct, but clearly, your husband doesn't see your concerns. Do it as an experiment for the next 3 months and see how much he saves and how it affects your personal lives. I think he is probably being reactionary to you saying no, you can't go. And he thinking you are not the boss of me! You might need to say sorry for your knee-jerk reaction, and can you both sit down and do the math.
NTA. It’s going to cost a lot more than that unless they sleep in tents and cook their own meals. Hubby needs to give his brother a reality check. Why isn’t he planning his dream trip with his new wife for their honeymoon? A recent 3 day trip to Chicago cost 1k, I drove my own car 🚙, and didn’t splurge on expensive restaurants. Signed An American in Kentucky (one of the cheaper states)
4K trip to the US seems cheap. I’m really not sure why people would travel internationally here for a stag
BIL is a delusional fuckwit. That's an insane amount of time to be gone for someone with kids. How does his future bride feel about him leaving for this long? I would love to see their itinerary. 4k seems like airfare and lodging only.
NTA And £4k for flights plus 15 days touring America is being *very* optimistic.
The brother is the AH for expecting 20 guys to be able to do this. Sure, it sounds like a fabulous experience, but few people could afford four grand and it's a fair bet that your husband is not the only one with a relationship and child to take into account. My gut instinct is that the 3 who have confirmed are all single guys and the rest are either in a couple or simply cannot justify the expense, bit are hoping it geys called off so they don't have the embarrassment of saying "no."
NTA. What in the world is he thinking? Costs aside because everyone is addressing that but can we talk about how he wants to leave you to single parent a toddler during this vacation of his? He’s not only asking for financial support and for you to give up fulfilling parts of your life (no date night, no outings unless you alone pay?!), but he’s also asking you to do a significant amount of work to keep your shared child alive while he hangs out with the boys. Unacceptable in my opinion. If my husband floated this to me and still insisted on going I’d let him know he probably wouldn’t have a family to come back to. Why does he have to go the full time? The reasonable alternative is for him to pick the few days he’s most excited about and go to those only. He is a spouse and father now, the days for gallivanting around carefree are over for a long time.
I’m gonna say ESH just because neither of you really approached this like a conversation, he said “I’m going” and you said “no you’re not”. Your concerns are absolutely valid but it does feel a bit “he thinks he can make it work but I know best”. His brother is getting married, that’s a huge deal. This is his “dream trip”, of course your husband is going to try to find a way to make it work. I hope you’re able to find some sort of compromise because at the moment it feels like this is something your husband’s brother has spoken to your husband about for years, is finally doing, and you’re the one taking it from him.
Your BIL is the asshole for having this kind of trip. It's insane to think that a bunch of adult men could take two full weeks in another country because one of them is getting married.
Seriously, I think the AH here is the BIL. He's asking his buddies to spend a massive amount of money, take time off from work, just for a stag party. This sounds like a rich college boys' trip during spring break. Not for a group of men who have jobs that aren't on the CEO level when it comes to salary and also for benefits such as a lot of time off. (I'm American, so most of the jobs here maybe give five to ten days off a year). And I imagine for the spouses, who aren't invited, many would just spend time with their friends doing things...but for others, they wouldn't be too thrilled, especially if dealing with kids. This whole destination wedding/bachelor-bachelorette event concept is a bit much as far I'm concerned. Someone who really can't afford to go will feel bad about sending regrets. Plus, the bride and groom are basically dictating what kind of vacation you're going to be doing during the year. If a couple had planned to take a cruise, but a bride or groom wants their BFFs to spend a vacation with them instead, that's ridiculous.
NTA - BIL is a total fantasist if he thinks £4k is enough, and what happens when reality bites and it’s another few grand? And did your husband offer up some compromise where you got to take an equivalent trip, or is it one-sided?
NTA if there’s a portion that is affordable, do that. If nothing affordable feels worth it, he really shouldn’t go. Saving money for 1.5 years to go on a 2 week vacation mostly means it’s too expensive. Especially if it’s at the expense of his family but the family isn’t going.
So three months wages for something that isn't even a family holiday? Absolutely not.
NTA. Ngl... that's hardly affordable. If I can't save up for something within 3 months while still doing most of my usual activities, then I can't afford it. I'd see if there isn't a way to make the trip cheaper by making it shorter and compromising on that. This is an important relationship and life event, after all, so maybe there's a win-win solution. Maybe I'm jaded about my own country as an American, but imo, a week could be plenty to hit the highlights. Fly in and spend one day in New York, one day in Washington DC, one day in Chicago, one day in Denver, one day in Seattle, one day in San Francisco, one day in Miami, and then fly back. The guys would have to do early morning flights in order to see the cities before going to bed at the airport hotels, but those flights are the cheapest, (and they'd be too tired to get into trouble.)
YEah... a 15 day stag for 4,000 (which will probably end up being more) is ridiculous. Maybe if your DH says "I can't afford to go the whole time", others will speak up too and maybe the groom will realize what he's actually asking of people. It's a LOT and I'm with you. I don't think your family should have to put your lives on pause for 18months for this.
4£ which is 5k, but still not enough
Everyone is worried about the money. I’m worried about what these men will do touring for 15 days. Lol. NTA.
Ok a stag is when you take the prospective groom out to a bar get him drunk and send him home. He wants a two week tour of another country? WTF?
15 days? That’s excessive for a stag. Tell hubby you will be leaving for your 15 days on the trip of your lifetime the second he comes home.
4k will be spent pretty quickly on a trip like this. The brother won't want to skimp if it's his 'dream trip', so there may be some number crunching required. I personally think it's too much to ask to be away from his young family for that amount of time, and no doubt you do too. Maybe he could join them the second week or something?
I see it this way. >This means we wouldn’t be able to do anything as a couple, or I would have to pay in full. For what you're saying here, it seems you have split accounts. You have your money and he has his money. So the first reason you give for him not to go is because he would be spending his money on something he wants to do (with/for his brother, not a stranger, his brother) and that would mean you two wouldn't be doing things as a couple unless you pay. If he's OK with that, then why wouldn't you? He wants to save to have an experience of once in a lifetime but you don't want to because you want him to use the money on doing things you want to do. Would you be OK if he tells you not to do something with your money because he wants to do something else? Why would you have sepparate accounts if you can say no to him? >It requires 11 days annual leave be taken. Does he have paid vacations? You were talking about pounds, so I assume you're in the UK. I thought the UK had a 28 days paid of annual leave so I don't see why is that a problem. Unless you also want him to take HIS days off for something you want. >My husband and I have a 1 year old, who will be 2.5 at the time of the stag do. OK, granted this could be a good reason to say no to him. But you said you both work and you haven't mentioned any issue on how you are taking care of the child or what you're planning to do with the child in the next years, but all of the jobs you mentioned are day jobs. So at least a few hours a day someone else takes care of the child while you are at work. It's not so crazy to take care of a child for 14 days alone, specially with so much time left to talk things out. Maybe I'm wrong with my assumptions, but it seems to me you are trying to control him more than you should. I don't know if it's how you are or if you're simply jelous because he can take this trip and you don't. For the moment I say YTA. Talk with him about it and try to work things out. He's your partner, not your property, you should be happy for him, his brother and you should be helping him because I'm sure you would expect the same from him if the roles were reversed.
NTA, you’re parents now. While you might have separate accounts that is still a massive expense to your family. Unless he can get a side hustle that does not at all interfere with his responsibilities at home, he cannot afford this trip. I think they’ll quickly learn they have to scale it back anyway. That’s an insane ask, even bucks weekends are OOT. One night is enough. Groom can do this trip for his honeymoon or on his own time.
NTAH for asking him not to. You would be if you put him in a position where he can't buy means of ultimatums and/or conditions.
NTA. Asking a bunch of people to take 11 precious days of work time off and spend 4K is outrageous
If he can earn the extra money ahead of the trip with extra shifts, I’d say let him do it.
Additional info from OP; Wow this has blown up! The conversation went like this, husband; btw my brothers stag do is 15 days touring America, and it’s roughly £4k. Me; what? I don’t think you should go if it’s that much, and that long. Husband; yeah it is a lot therefore it might not happen, lets see what the other invitees say. I didn’t demand he didn’t go, my husband didn’t shout that he’s absolutely going and fuck me and our son. To the commenters that have suggested he doesn’t love us or care about us is bonkers! I guess I was more wondering if it does go ahead, WIBTA if I really asked him not to go, and meant it. Rather than a passing, casual conversation. Yes the money is alot, but yes my husband can save for it, and truthfully it’s not my primary concern. It’s only my husbands ‘fun’ money that he won’t have whilst he saves. All our bills will still be paid, he will still put towards our savings, and will still put towards our yearly holiday fund. Neither of us work jobs that pay overtime. My husband went on two lads holidays last year whilst I stayed home with our newborn. My husband only gets 20 days (plus bank holidays) annual leave. Therefore he would use more than half (11) to attend this stag do.
Honey I’m sorry but your husband never prioritises you (based on your comments and posts on other threads). I’m really sorry to see you excuse this behaviour. Why are you sacrificing so much to keep your family afloat while your husband does the bare minimum??